Ultimate Comics: A Retrospective
Ultimate Comics was a Marvel alternate universe that existed from 2000 to 2015. They were some of the first comics I ever read, and I wanted to talk a little about the various titles (that I remember) and what I think about them.
Ultimate Spider-Man -
Everyone says this is the best Ultimate series. It is.
It is also tonally different from the rest of the line, which leads to some fascinating crossovers. (66-67 is a fun one with Wolverine.)
Rather than reinventing the characters, it's pretty faithful to them, though Peter may be slightly less of a jerk than canon. It introduces most of Peter's canon cast, but writes them into a 14-15 year old's life, rather that the 'older teen'(/30 year old) of the original comics. A bit slow moving at times, and everyone talks like they're on Buffy the Vampire Slayer, but its a GOOD SERIES. And it's Spider-Man.
Ultimate Comics: Spider-Man -
This is also a good series, and a worthy successor to the previous one. Miles is wonderful. However, I'm not thick skinned enough for comics. I couldn't forgive Marvel for Ultimatum, and even though this series was really good at respecting Peter's death and writing a new Spider-man fully aware of the weight of his legacy, I was MAD. Stupid apocalyptic cross-over events. Stupid hyper-violence. I HATE IT.
Ultimate X-Men 1-33
Must a series be good? This one is not.
It's as soulless and obsessed with being cool as the Ultimates (see below), but instead of partner abuse, incest, and cannibalism, it's gleefully reveling in torture and young adults being incredibly petty dicks to each other.
I personally find gratuitous torture more intriguing than partner abuse. The Weapon X arc is compelling to a certain type of reader. (Me, for example.)
However, Ultimates at least had some partial characters and a few archetypes. Mark Millar's Ultimate X-Men doesn't even have different varieties of dickishness. Not a single personality to be found. Just cardboard cutouts there to deliver quips.
(13 and 14 are a fill-in about Gambit and are really sweet, despite being by Chuck Austen. This version of Gambit will never return. Neither will this version of Chuck Austen. But I found them worth reading.)
Ultimate X-Men 34-100
The series could not recover from having zero characters. The lineup was too high profile to switch out for characters with actual personalities, but also utterly uninteresting for anything other than flashy action movie violence. I stuck around for another 40 or so issues, but the only ones worth reading are the Spider-Man crossover in 34-39, where Peter Parker tries to help out Wolverine and really struggles with the genre shift to ultraviolent action thriller. Everyone should read that. It's great!
The Ultimates -
Okay, this mini-series actually has cool stuff in it. It is drastically weakened by being WAY too focused on that cool stuff, but I ... look, I absolutely don't recommend it, but I enjoyed it when I was 18.
This is the Ultimate version of the Avengers. The Avengers movie is heavily based on these guys.
Things that are cool:
Ultimate Thor is FASCINATING. Hippie cult leader who may be delusional about actually being Thor. Not really a superhero, but sort of helps out. Mark Millar doesn't respect liberals (or anyone else), but the character kind of gets away from him and is good anyways? (All that lovely ambiguity will quickly be lost. But this bit was good.)
Ultimate Iron Man is Movie Iron Man. He's got all the early movie version's flaws and strengths. His quips are often very good. He was interesting enough that I read his first mini. (A mistake. More later.)
Things that are mixed:
Ultimate Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver are ... look, I liked melodrama as a young adult. These guys were consistently my favourite parts of the first 2 minis. They're not good people. They only pretend to do heroics (and even the pretense is perfunctory). It's heavily implied that they're in an incestual relationship. But even cowering from their abusive father is done with such flair and emotion! Mark Millar writes good hooks for hurt/comfort, okay?
Ultimate Black Widow and Hawkeye are ... the basis for the movie versions. That means these guys are responsible for Hawkeye having an awful buzzcut, no expression, and a wife and kids. These guys are also the reason the movie versions are so intertwined in each other and so heavily tied to SHIELD. Black Widow is the female with the closest thing to a personality in this mini.
Things that aren't cool:
Ultimate Captain America is fundamentally broken. Fails as Captain America. This is Jingoistic post-9/11 Americans at their worst. Attracted to a lady married to someone else and super creepy about it. Takes SUCH JOY in beating up her husband when the man turns out to be abusive - like, it's not about her at all, he just likes hurting people. A bad person.
Ultimate Wasp and Giant-Man are the aforementioned wife and abusive husband. She is a macguffin with an INCREDIBLE costume. He gets far too much screen time for such a pathetic abusive piece of slime.
The Ultimate Hulk shouldn't be a mass murderer. Bruce is pathetic, and watching him with his ex is ... bad. Why does Mark Millar hate everyone he writes?
Things that matter:
Not the plot. It's an early 2000s action movie. All flash, no substance.
The Ultimates 2:
More of the same, but not as good. Still ultra-nationalistic. Still soulless. The Maximoff twins remain an uncomfortable delight while doing nothing. Hawkeye's small children's dead bodies are graphically shown on panel. Nobody is likeable or a character, Tony's stupid opinions aren't as forgiveable, and Thor is absent most of the miniseries.
The Ultimates 3:
Jeff Loeb tries to ape Millar's style. He gets the grossness and violence right! He misses badly on the subtlety, which is REALLY impressive, since Millar isn't known for it. (The Hulk eats people, you guys.) Thankfully, I bowed out after number 2.
Ultimate Fantastic Four -
Mediocre. Non-descript. Nothing new to say, but not good at what made the original work. (Family. It has always been about family.) The lackluster movie does a slightly better job. I don't care about these characters until Ultimate Reed goes evil (far after this series), and then I hate him.
Ultimate Iron Man -
??? What? I ...
I like Ender's Game. I do not think the writer of Ender's Game should being trying to integrate into a shared universe. This isn't Tony Stark, and it ruins the character for anyone else to use. Why are all his nerves brain tissue???
Ultimate Daredevil and Elektra and Ultimate Elektra -
Reading these made me slightly interested in Daredevil comics. But only so I could see a better version of these characters. Boring. (I satisfied the faint interest by watching the Daredevil movie. The one you all complain about. Much more interesting than this.)
Ultimate Comics: Thor -
Wanted to like it more than I did. It's okay, but too grounded to get away with the shallowness of Millar's stuff, and too attached to Millar's stuff to work as something real. Mark Millar does not create anything worth building on, because all his creations are hollow facades.
Ultimatum -
HATE IT. BURN IT WITH FIRE!!!!!!!!!
People writing about things they don't like are awful. People who delight in destroying other people's toys are the worst. This series taught me not to trust alternate universes, because the higher ups consider them disposable.
Just an excuse to make the ending of all their books as unsatisfying as possible.
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I was meeting a client at a famous museum’s lounge for lunch (fancy, I know) and had an hour to kill afterwards so I joined the first random docent tour I could find. The woman who took us around was a great-grandmother from the Bronx “back when that was nothing to brag about” and she was doing a talk on alternative mediums within art.
What I thought that meant: telling us about unique sculpture materials and paint mixtures.
What that actually meant: an 84yo woman gingerly holding a beautifully beaded and embroidered dress (apparently from Ukraine and at least 200 years old) and, with tears in her eyes, showing how each individual thread was spun by hand and weaved into place on a cottage floor loom, with bright blue silk embroidery thread and hand-blown beads intricately piercing the work of other labor for days upon days, as the labor of a dozen talented people came together to make something so beautiful for a village girl’s wedding day.
What it also meant: in 1948, a young girl lived in a cramped tenement-like third floor apartment in Manhattan, with a father who had just joined them after not having been allowed to escape through Poland with his pregnant wife nine years earlier. She sits in her father’s lap and watches with wide, quiet eyes as her mother’s deft hands fly across fabric with bright blue silk thread (echoing hands from over a century years earlier). Thread that her mother had salvaged from white embroidery scraps at the tailor’s shop where she worked and spent the last few days carefully dying in the kitchen sink and drying on the roof.
The dress is in the traditional Hungarian fashion and is folded across her mother’s lap: her mother doesn’t had a pattern, but she doesn’t need one to make her daughter’s dress for the fifth grade dance. The dress would end up differing significantly from the pure white, petticoated first communion dresses worn by her daughter’s majority-Catholic classmates, but the young girl would love it all the more for its uniqueness and bright blue thread.
And now, that same young girl (and maybe also the villager from 19th century Ukraine) stands in front of us, trying not to clutch the old fabric too hard as her voice shakes with the emotion of all the love and humanity that is poured into the labor of art. The village girl and the girl in the Bronx were very different people: different centuries, different religions, different ages, and different continents. But the love in the stitches and beads on their dresses was the same. And she tells us that when we look at the labor of art, we don’t just see the work to create that piece - we see the labor of our own creations and the creations of others for us, and the value in something so seemingly frivolous.
But, maybe more importantly, she says that we only admire this piece in a museum because it happened to survive the love of the wearer and those who owned it afterwards, but there have been quite literally billions of small, quiet works of art in billions of small, quiet homes all over the world, for millennia. That your grandmother’s quilt is used as a picnic blanket just as Van Gogh’s works hung in his poor friends’ hallways. That your father’s hand-painted model plane sets are displayed in your parents’ livingroom as Grecian vases are displayed in museums. That your older sister’s engineering drawings in a steady, fine-lined hand are akin to Da Vinci’s scribbles of flying machines.
I don’t think there’s any dramatic conclusions to be drawn from these thoughts - they’ve been echoed by thousands of other people across the centuries. However, if you ever feel bad for spending all of your time sewing, knitting, drawing, building lego sets, or whatever else - especially if you feel like you have to somehow monetize or show off your work online to justify your labor - please know that there’s an 84yo museum docent in the Bronx who would cry simply at the thought of you spending so much effort to quietly create something that’s beautiful to you.
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The way some of yall mischaracterize Ratio as being stoic in chill when in reality he is 24/7 resisting the urge to rip everyone around him a new one is crazy to me like. He cares so much, so much. It’s unhealthy, he loses the idgaf war every time because Ratio is the least nonchalant person ever like
He was this close to breaking character and throttling Sunday like you cannot tell me he wasn’t planning a murder in this scene. Ratio straight up calls Sunday a crazy bitch but everyone brushed it aside 😭
Honestly his entire conversation with Screwllum is just him tweaking, watch it on YouTube the VAs performance is amazing, you can here just how much He Cares
Genuinely, Aventurine is way better at concealing his true feelings that Ratio. Ratio may be acting for the sake of the plan but the way he truly feels about anything he’s doing always seeps through, it’s why he apologizes to Aventurine in 2.0 in their staged argument scene. It’s why he is as mean to Sunday as he can be. It’s why him pretending that he “hates” Aventurine makes him act so silly. Ratio can’t fully commit to the bit, he can’t force himself to not care or to be someone he isn’t, because fundamentally Ratio CARES and that is something he is incapable of hiding, alabaster bust or not.
The problem is that him expressing his care is often done in a rude and/or blunt manner which people tend to interpret as stoicism or apathy when it’s anything but. Ratio’s vial that he gives to Aventurine is short, sweet and gets straight to the point, because that’s the easiest way for Ratio to express his emotions, even if it’s often detrimental for him and anyone else around him. However Aventurine understands him quite well, and knows that although brief, Ratio telling him to “stay alive, survive this and keep on living” is how he truly feels towards Aventurine, and that’s enough to keep him going.
Underneath Ratios carefully crafted marble facade is a man who cares so much and is so bad at expressing it and I wish the community in general, especially Aventio shippers would acknowledge that more. Ratios true moments of sincerity are brief, but they are anything but stoic. Let the man be soft, it’s in character.
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How do you feel about Milsiril? Like what do you think of her interactions between the canaries, her goals, her intentions and morality? I keep seeing people with mixed feelings about her, some saying she's just toxic or morally grey or doing bad but with good intentions or that she's just a mentally ill and literally so much more, also with the comic about Otta calling Milsiril love for her children/Kabru as just love for a pet, I always saw people take it at face value and say yes, Milsiril did love them more as pets instead of children, did she take up raising/adopting non-elf children because she felt like none of them could ridicule her like the elves did because they didn't know what an elf was supposed to be like (and also because they were children) or did she inherently view them as less? I mean the canaries and I'm pretty sure almost all of the cast in dungeon meshi have some sort perspective on different races especially because how they were taught about them, i just think it was interesting to finally see someone interpret it as Otta just misinterpreting Milsiril, I'm just really interested in her, i think shes neat, sorry for the rant!
Ooh, well to preface this, I hadn't really realized Milsiril was such a controversial character before my last post, I kinda live under a rock. She's really not a character I had given much thought besides what I wrote there before it, but I can do my best to express what I have thought since, with sources for it. I'm not sure what order to go thru so I'll just go by manga appearances and then extras, this will probably be quite a long post
This is the first time she shows up in the manga (ch55) Kabru is wondering about what future they might have if the elves take them into custody because of the ancient magic, he thinks about Milsiril as a get out of jail card, and mentions "There's a chance they would make us become permanent resident of the elven lands." with the image of Milsiril holding him. I don't think that means she would be the one to not let them leave, since this would probably be an legal issue, and the fact Milsiril lives away from other Elves. It does set up that Milsiril is quite overprotective tho, with Kabru's reaction to her teary hug. (rest is under a cut)
The next time she shows up is in ch61 right after Kabru falls down the dungeon along with Mithrun, he faints and has this flashback
She's being her overbearing self treating Kabru's small injury as if its something you need to be in bed for, hand feeding him like he's a toddler, and when he insists he wants to learn how to fight and be strong like her, she hugs him revealing to us for the first time her arm scars, she's cleary in distress too, so you wonder "what has happened to her?"
It continues in the next pages, as she tells him to stay there, where it's safe and there's cake, and describes the bad things he might encounter. Until he tells her he will go with or without her help
Honestly this is a Kabru we don't see often, this is the version of him that is usually in thought bubbles, he's blowing out in frustation over being smothered and demanding straight up what he wants, instead of trying to manipulate Milsiril, very blunt for him. Milsiril seems to flip a switch into battle mode, when she decides to train him for real.
I really thought this was funny, the visual of these cuddly toys and this Mom that was being so soft just a second ago completely flipping into something menacing is very amusing to me. She says "I'll give you an exhaustive, thorough training in how to use a sword... until you finally decide that you're ready to give up." although it sounds cruel, it seems she really trained him as best she could to make sure he would survive the dungeon. If he couldn't take the training with her there was no way he would be able to take on the dungeon, but he could, so much so that he managed to make her let him go. I can see this being seen as her trying to prevent him from going but to me it seems more like some tough love from a traumatized war veteran in this case.
The last thoughts he has is admitting his Mom was right, "Not only were there plenty of traps, monsters, and malice... but there were times when I felt so hungry and cold that I couldn't stand it."
And he concludes with "I never once thought that I wanted to go back there. That room where I could eat all the cake that I wanted..." While I can understand the interpretation that he means he would rather go thru all this than go back, perhaps cause he hated it there, I think it's rather a statement to how committed he is to defeating the dungeon, the visuals show him in rubble vs him in a soft big bed, the rough reality he fought to be able to face and the comfyness of what his life could be. Plus is mirroring exactly what Milsiril said to him. Admitting she was right about the bad things but that he won't give up for the safe easy life he had.
After that visuals of Milsiril are used while Kabru tries to sus out Mithrun but she shows up again in Mithrun's backstory.
Here she's straight up called Gloomy, which wasn't really the version of her we saw so far, gotta remember this is also how Mithrun saw her and that she was called gloomy as a way of bullying. Kabru mostly cuts off her part in the story until the end, when she's the one to find Mithrun after he was eaten by the demon
She doesn't really care much for Mithrun as we see in some extras, and she was ready to mercy kill him, but she is also the one to spare his life. This could be seen as her thinking he can still be of use, and it's how it sounds with how Kabru tells the story, but I do think this was also a merciful act, Mithrun was in rehabilitation for 20 years after being saved, by the time he was actually useful for anything Milsiril had already left the canaries and adopted Kabru.
Now for extras... About Mithrun/The Canaries, Milsiril was cleary someone that hated the people around her. This is her extra in the Adventurer's Bible
Milsiril seems to be the type that hates "popular kids" so to say, her description says she was bullied by other elves for being so introverted so I believe she holds a grudge against people like Mithrun that seem to have succeeded where she failed. But realizing he was a twisted person like her seemed to make her feel more sympathetic towards him, that's why I think she really did act with mercy when she saves Mithrun, he's now someone she sees as similar to her, she sees he also suffered like her
Her decription also mentions she left the canaries specifically because she was disgusted with how the Utaya situation was dealt with. Yet it seems like she came back to help Mithrun with his rehabilitation once she quits.
There's an interpretation to be made that she did this only to get "revenge" on the demon since she just saw the destruction of Utaya, and that she's using him. On the other hand maybe she wants to help him find a motivation to live, she's no longer a canary and she has time to actually help him now. I don't know which one is the truth but it's not obviously something self-serving if you ask me. Especially in the context that right before this scene Milsiril admits she wishes they could have talked before.
My interpretation of her relationship with the canaries and other elves is that she's someone depressed that was mistreat for her 'quirky' side, the dolls are clearly one of the ways she used to cope with anxiety/depression but it only caused her to be bullied by her own kin, she's the daughter of an important family and it's shown in other extras, including one about Mithrun, that nobles often send out the kids they don't want around to become canaries. It's an easy way to get rid of someone undesirable and I think it was the case for Milsiril. (Pattadol even assumes her parents love her less than her sisters for sending her to join the canaries).
No wonder than that now that she's finally free from the canaries she chose to seek her own happiness away from the society she felt she could never fit into, she clearly likes to take care of children too, I think it's mean to assume she only likes them because she feels superior to them when there's no indication that this is the case.
And I don't think it's a coincidence she's so overprotective of Kabru after Utaya, it's literally the tragedy that was the breaking point for her, and he's a surviving small child from that tragedy, Milsiril cares about Kabru and wanted him to have a comfortable safe life after everything he went thru...
This ended up getting way too long so I'll make second part tomorrow about the rest of the extras and Kabru, and some other things I've seen said about Milsiril, but to answer the questions...
I don't think she treats her children as pets, Otta is just salty she was called out for dating like Leo Dicaprio.
Every single dungeon meshi character can be called morally grey because they all have flaws that in our world can be considered unforgivable, but they don't live in our world. To me Milsiril is doing her best in the context she lives in.
Who even is neurotypical in dungeon meshi, Milsiril is yet another flavour of a neurodivergent traumatized character among so many.
I believe she thought of the other canaries, especially Mithrun, as the same type of people that were cruel to her, probably because some of them really were, but that she generalized it to the point she thinks of all of them as bad by default. You can only get hurt so many times before you assume everyone will hurt you.
Part 2
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