#because she COULD have had a good redemption arc she COULD have stayed a complex and interesting character
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the statements “catra was an extremely traumatized person who craved love and validation from her abusive mother and used unhealthy coping mechanisms because she wasn't taught how to deal with her own trauma” and “catra abused and tortured everyone around her and committed war crimes with no hesitation, and she did not deserve to be forgiven so easily” can and should coexist.
#saying this because some people still think that spop antis are all “catra needs to DIE she's an IRREDEEMABLE MONSTER”#listen to me a lot of us dislike catra because of the wasted potential#because she COULD have had a good redemption arc she COULD have stayed a complex and interesting character#but the writers decided that it was more important for her to smooch the person she's been abusing her whole life#a lot of us dislike catra because she relate to her and her arc was handled so badly#we don't want her to die we want her to face consequences of her actions and GROW and CHANGE#can you tell i'm a bit snappy today#anyway good morning#we relate to her**#spop critical#spop salt#spop#spop criticism#spop discourse#she ra#anti spop
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how would a redemption arc work for azula? because like you said, azula isn't even close to the realization that she was wrong. what kind of major event would it take for azula to realize her genocidal ideals were wrong? how would zuko react to her change? because I dont want zuko to accept it right away for obvious reasons.
I'm not exactly sure how a redemption arc would work for Azula. I much prefer her the way she is in the show, a tragedy to illustrate how being abused can sometimes turn you into an abuser yourself. If she were to have a redemption arc, it should be away from anyone' influence. Away from Ozai, because obviously, and away from Zuko as well. I think it would be good way to illustrate how a victim does not have to help their abuser, and it would give Azula the opportunity to find herself without exacerbating her inferiority complex when it comes to Zuko. I feel like if he was always around to help her, she'd learn nothing about personal responsibility. Even Iroh didn't help Zuko when it really came down to it, and Iroh wasn't even Zuko's victim in the way that Zuko is Azula's. But anyway, I'll give it a go.
Maybe I'd have Azula travel around the world, learning more perspectives kind of like Zuko did. I do think it would be harder for her to do than it was for Zuko, but I think being forced to confront the world and every perception of it that she's had would help her on the road to becoming a better person. The same way Zuko did, she should go on a journey by herself, having to struggle to find food and shelter, struggling to get by. She once thought she was so capable, so powerful, but she's struggling. She put all her value into being the best firebender, a prodigy, a raw talent that she was born with, the divine right, but she can't see any of that now. Her natural firebending isn't coming to her aid here. It doesn't bring her food, it doesn't bring her shelter, and it doesn't bring her any help. She's so hungry and tired... she can't even firebend that well at all, can't conjure up her flames as strong as they used to be.
It's almost as though her skill, her expertise in fighting with fire... isn't as important or useful as she thought. It doesn't matter as much as she thought it would. It leads to her needing to reevaluate everything she knows, because if what she believed was most important really isn't... then what is important? What makes her worthy, what makes her special?
And when she comes across people who are suffering the same way she is, instead of scoffing at them and dismissing their pain like she once would have, she sees herself in them, and she understands them. And she also begins to understand that her father, and she by extension, did this to them. It sits wrong with her, now that she knows what it feels like. She's already beginning to realize that maybe her divine right isn't all that she thought it was, but she clings onto it anyway, because it's the foundation of her worldview, and without it she has nothing.
Azula keeps on travelling, she meets more and more people. I think it should be the Earth Kingdom that she travels in most, because it's where she caused the most damage to the people, it's the place she wanted to burn to the ground, and now she's forced to travel there.
And then maybe, on her travels, she stays with a family one day, who let her in out of the goodness of their heart. She scoffs at them for being so weak, so naive, but she's tired and hungry and has nowhere else to go. While she's staying there, she happens upon a scene where one of their kids is getting hugged by their mother, getting a kiss on their forehead or something, and she can't help but remember her mother doing that to her, and she can't help but remember that her father never did. And her mother was weak, and her father was is powerful, but... the kid looks so happy. And so was she, back then, when her mother showed her she loved her. But she didn't love Azula. She didn't.
But did she? Could it be that she really did love her?
Azula runs away from them in the middle of the night.
Because sure, it's a worthless display of affection, so far removed from power and fear and everything her father taught her to be, everything she strove to emulate. And they're just Earth Kingdom peasants, after all, what would they know about who she is and what she's destined for? But she can't help but think about the joy in that child's eyes, the loving way his mother looked at him, like how her mother used to look at her, how she used to feel so special when her mother stroked her hair and gave her a kiss on her forehead. Even Azula can't mistake what the look in that mother's eyes were. And if it reminds her of her mother... was her father wrong? And if he were wrong about that... what else could he have been wrong about? Her, raw talent, her divine right which she's already questioning?
And those people... they had no power. They had no money, no glory, no superior bending ability, but... they were so happy. And as long as she can remember, her family wasn't. Of course, maybe that was Zuko's fault for being so weak, her mother's fault for being so weak, her uncle's fault for being so weak... but this family has nothing, nothing like she did, and they're still so loving, so happy. And she still can't shake her faith in her father entirely (though it already began, back during Sozin's Comet), but... maybe, just maybe, somewhere deep in her heart, she's forced to admit that maybe she would liked this a lot better. Her father never did this... but maybe he should have.
She keeps travelling. Some people help her, some turn her away. She understands both of them. She would turn away anyone who came to her for help. They never were worth her time. But now she's on the other side, the one in need of help. And the people who help her, once she would have called the naive and weak and foolish, but they are the ones who help her stay alive, who she depends on. She's starting to realize who the better person is, between these two. When it comes down to just being a person, stripped of wealth and power, who it's better to be. Her father always said these things to her, and she believed it for the longest time. She did everything she could to be on his right side, to be like him, to be better than her brother... but ultimately, in her time of greatest need, none of it matters. What's really helping her is kindness, is compassion, the things she derided and scoffed at. In the fact of the harsh reality, she has to admit that her father is wrong. She can't deny it anymore.
Maybe she happens upon a refugee camp at some point, and she sees these people suffering, with nothing. She used to believe that weakness led to your own suffering, and that it would never happen to her. Zuko brought his fate upon himself, after all. Iroh lost his son because of his weakness. Her mother was sent away because she was too weak. But Azula sees these people, there people who have nothing because everything they had was burnt away. She would have blamed them too, but she's also spent so long feeling helpless, realizing that when it comes to the world outside the confines of her majestic royal palace filled with luxury and comfort, that not everyone has that kind of power, even her. Especially not her. And she knows, just as surely as she knows that she wanted the fire that destroyed their homes to be lit, she knows in the depths of her mind and heart that this is their fault. The fault of her father, and her own. Just like what happened to Zuko was her father's fault.
And they still help her, believing her to be one of them, someone who has been hurt by the Fire Nation like they have. And for the first time, she feels that she doesn't deserve their help. She doesn't deserve their kindness. She's horrified by the true reality of her actions and their consequences, horrified by what she's done.
And then maybe someone recognizes her. And then people are drawing weapons and trying to defend themselves. They all come together in hatred for her. In fear of her. It's what she's tried to achieve for so long, to subjugate these people, to rule them, to make everyone fear her. But she sees them come together, fearing her, and she only feels sick. There are children crying, somewhere, and for a second, she sees Zuko in his place, crying, half of his face burnt off-
She runs. She can't deal with this. Some people chase her, trying to take her down, because they're so afraid of her. She's never truly been confronted with such raw hatred before. She thinks of all the children, with burns on their skin, and thinks of Zuko, his face burning, and she thinks of how she had smiled. She thinks of her father, teaching her all sorts of falsehoods about power, and worthiness, and how she knew, she did, that it would only last as long as it pleased him. She thinks of that family, happy and loving, and how much better it seemed compared to her own family. She thinks about how so many other families have been the same way. She thinks about how even the people in this camp, who are so hurt and powerless, were ready to fight her to protect their family.
She thinks about her mother, who was the one who really loved her. Realizing her father was wrong also brings about the realization that she was wrong about her mother. That her mother was trying to protect her. From her father. The man who would burn the face of his son, all because he wouldn't fight his father. Who treated Zuko like he was worth nothing because he couldn't bend as well as her. Who treated her like she was worth something only because she could bend her fire better, the same bending ability that she's realized is ultimately meaningless, which doesn't matter when it comes down to the realest parts of the world. Who fed her lies and treated her like a tool, because he saw her as a weapon, not a daughter. He never looked at her the way her mother did. With love. He just wanted to use her, and he cast her away when he was done with her. Just like he did with Zuko. She wasn't special, she wasn't born lucky, she was just more convenient, and he used her and discarded her like a cheap toy.
And she has to admit, that fear isn't the answer. She's seen people now, people who are more afraid of her than anyone has ever been before. They should be running away. But they don't. She thinks about these people, who she thought were weak, but really, they are stronger than her, because even in the face of fear, they fight. Because they have love, and that's always been more powerful. Just like Zuko. Like Mai and Ty Lee.
Her mother wouldn't have done what her father did. She would have helped Azula. She tried so hard to. Her brother tried too, as she fought him and relished in his pain. So did her uncle, while she spurned him and wished him dead. So did these people, even though she wanted to burn them to the ground not so long ago. Her father was well on his way to do it. Burn down their homes, kill these people, some of whom are her age too. And she suggested it, she wanted to be by his side, like it was some game, some glorious quest.
Her father is a monster. So is she. She's always laughed it off, believing her mother thought that about her, and trying to pretend it didn't matter. But it does. Now it does. She's always known all this, somewhere in the depths of her mind, her mother's teachings had left a mark, but she can no longer run from any of it anymore. It's the truth. She's a monster, and for the first time, she feels remorse. She can no longer hide behind her belief of superiority, of her divine right to rule. She feels guilt, the way she did on that day, before she lost everything she once thought mattered, when her mother looked at her and said I love you Azula. I do.
From then, she keeps travelling. She tries to avoid people. She doesn't dare face anyone, for fear of what rejection she might face, especially because she now knows she deserves it. She doesn't deserve their help or their support. Not these people, not Zuko or Mai or Ty Lee or her uncle or her mother. And as she's going on like this, she sees some people one day, shivering in the cold, trying to light a fire and failing. She's also cold, so she lights a fire. But the fire in her hand is blue, like ice, too hot, too much. So, for once, she stops focusing on making her flames the hottest they can be. The flame in her hand cools down, and now it's a warm yellow glow. And then she actually feels warm, not just on the outside but in her heart as well. And she looks at these people, and she knows how they feel. She knows what she'd want someone to do for her if she were in their place. So, she lights their fire with a flick of her wrist. They don't see who she is, they don't even notice her. For all they know, they managed to light it themselves. But they look so happy, so content, so warm. Because of the fire. And she didn't even use it to fight. Her fire is helping people, making them happy. Maybe it's not just good for fighting.
Just like her.
She knows in her heart that this is what her mother would have wanted. Her mother who was right all along. So, she goes on doing this, secretly helping people. Lighting their fires, their torches. It's small, but it clearly means a lot to people on cold days and nights. And they never notice her. But she's surprised to find that she doesn't need or want the attention anymore. Just the fact that she helped makes her feel the warmth she thought respect and power would get her.
And so, she doesn't just help with her fire. She tries to learn new ways to help. She tries to learn how to treat wounds, especially burns. And she finds so much more fulfillment in this simple work than she ever did in plotting against her brother and planning to burn down the Earth Kingdom. And it's not even just because of her mother's words anymore. Her mother was right. This is something she wants. She still struggles sometimes with doubts about if she's wrong now, still struggles with feelings of resentment and anger towards the people she knows don't deserve it. She still feels small when she thinks about her father, about what he'd think if he saw her like this, even though she's realizing he doesn't matter. But she's getting better. She feels better than she's ever felt.
And then she ends up in Ba Sing Se, and then Zuko is there. With Iroh. And the Avatar and his friends. Zuko spots her. She runs. Zuko chases her. She didn't mean to run into him, but he's coming after her. Zuko confesses that he was worried about her, that he's been looking for her. And she's shocked that he would, even after everything. Because even now, she can still see the wariness in his eyes, the slight nervousness in his posture, the way his friends stand tall behind him, making less of an effort to look concerned, even though they don't look completely antagonistic.
So Azula does the one thing she's always been running from, something she knows she has to do but has never been able to. Admit to her mistakes. Apologize. She still wants to run, but Zuko is here, he's been looking for her, and he's worried about her. She would have felt, and a part of her still feels, anger towards Zuko, still blames him unfairly. But she's grown to recognize it for what it is. And so, she says to him I'm sorry, the first time she's said the words and truly meant it. He looks shocked, but then smiles, and says I forgive you.
But she can see he doesn't, not really. She can see now, how much he loves her, how much wants her to get better, how much he appreciates her sincere apology. How much he wants to forgive her. But she can still see the doubt, the pain and fear in his eyes that she caused. She can see the resentment and the hurt. She's not blind to it anymore. So she says, no you don't. And when he steps forward, tells her to stay, Azula, I don't want to lose you, she tells him that it's best for the both of them if she leaves. And maybe one day, she'll come back, when she's become better, enough to truly begin to make up for what she's done to him, and he can truly forgive her. And he smiles, and says good luck.
So Azula goes off to do more good things and learn to heal herself and find her worth, and then they meet and can actually be a decently stable family again. Or not, YMMV.
Thank you for your ask!
#ATLA#Avatar: The Last Airbender#Avatar The Last Airbender#Zuko#Azula#Ursa#Ozai#Iroh#Mai#Ty Lee#ATLA Azula#ATLA Zuko#Asks#So yeah#This got longer than I thought#It just sorta got away from me
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if you had to redeem this list of characters how would you do it? could you do it? and how would you rank them from easy to redeem with little work to you need a LOT of work and maybe you can be forgiven. bonus if you want to give them the punishment you think they deserve. not all of them may be "villains" but im also curious on your thoughts.
creek, chef, barb, peppy, poppy (i love her and her heart is in the right place but still doesn't excuse all her actions), hickory, dickory, chaz, k-pop gang, the regetones, john dory, bruce, clay, floyd, velvet, veneer, and crimp.
sorry i know this is alot and it might be a bit time consuming but i recently read a creek redemption fic and i thought "who else could be redeemed with enough truama, hard work and effort?" hope this is more fun than stressful as an ask.
So off the bat, Barb, Poppy, Kpop and Reggaeton and BroZone are all redeemed within their works so they'd be the easiest. BroZone tbh needed a bit more work in my opinion but they're still redeemed.
Hickory and Dickory are shown singing with everyone so I consider them also redeemed in their works so again it'd be pretty easy I think.
Peppy to me is a very complex character who has done just as much good as he has bad. I think he's redeemable so long as Dreamworks stop using Peppy to fix plot holes. ("Oopsy forgot to tell you about this super important thing")
Veneer is also 'redeemed' in his movie but he has some work to do before he's there. Crimp is... we just don't know honestly. I feel like she can be redeemed but it requires giving her a motive.
Velvet would be a fun character to redeem because she would absolutely be a character who is dragged kicking and screaming into her redemption. She's horrified to find she cares what OTHER people feel now.
Creek could be redeemed. First he'd need to see what he did wrong (selling out the village was one thing, I'm talking about how he showed 0 remorse and taunted Poppy about it). I think maybe making him stay with another genre might be a fun angle to work his redemption arc.
Chef would be a TOUGH one. An angle I like to work with is that Bergens think Trolls have the intelligence of bugs or small animals, not that they're actual PEOPLE. I like the idea of Chef being stuck with a troll (cough baby branch cough) and in trying to use them to find the other trolls, she comes to care about them almost as a pet before realizing they're actually intelligent with complex emotions.
It'd be fun but hard as hell.
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I know this is asking too much from a series like black clover but I've been rereading the missing children arc and man I really wish we'd gotten some more insight into Neige's psyche. Like... sure he's soft and sweet, but let's not forget he got angry and struck Marie in rage because she OPPOSED HIM. He thought friends were just supposed to blindly agree his every word and immediately resorted to violence when frustrated. Which... I mean okay, it makes sense given that his only friends seemed to be his snowmen and that he was apparently raised by his brother who was verbally, emotionally AND physically abusive. But still! I wish we'd gotten to see his evolution beyond just "oh I was wrong to do all that, I'm going to be good from now on."
And let's not forget that he killed his brother??? He clearly cared about him despite everything??? Why are we brushing over all this???
Logically I know not every side character can get developed but still. Frustrating.
Sorry for the rant, I just needed to get this out and since I always enjoy your insights and you recently talked about the snow baby I thought you'd be the best person to go to. Have a nice evening!
Flamelet I can feel your frustration, and I know (to an extent) how it feels when your blorbo doesn't get the character development, or doesn't get it in a satisfying manner.
Also, don't worry about the rant! I'm all for hearing thoughts and feelings for the show, and the characters, as long as it's, y'know, constructively formulated. Which this is.
And for what it's worth, I think that Neige's emotional growth is stunted to some extent. Like, a lot of the behaviours he displayed, made me think of the word "tantrum", so he has never probably been taught how to handle his own emotions. (Like with striking Marie when she didn't just go along with things. Reminds me of toddlers pushing each other on a sandbox.) It's something that can be observed in people well into their 40s too, but usually it's displayed in other ways. But it's still the temper-tantrum phenomenon.
I would imagine that living with Baro would have caused a severe enough of a trauma for Neige to stay in that mind-set and emotional/psychological state. Defence mechanisms of a kind to not explore those emotions and or handle them in any way, and acting out of impulse. But also it could be a behaviour pattern that Neige learned from Baro. So, if Neige didn't go along Baro's plan, then Baro hit him, or something along those lines. And yes, though Baro did a lot of horrid things to Neige, Neige cared for Baro. Probably out of a "conviction" of a kind to an extent (like "I need to care for him because he's my brother"), but also probably because Baro was the only person Neige had in his life. And without his brother, Neige would have been all alone. And being alone is scary.
A lot of these events were a lot for Neige too, I would imagine, which could have placed him in a kind of a shock, where Baro's death wouldn't have visibly shown in that moment either. Maybe a form of denial? (I'm not a psychologist, so I'm just guessing a lot here) Which is why Neige wasn't shown grieving.
But also the "okay, I will be good from now on" is an intention, which I think would go well with someone who isn't yet equipped to handle emotions, especially complex emotions, at least well. So, without really reflecting on what happened and why; how things ended up where they did, Neige just blatantly decides "I will be good". The emotional growth, and learning the tools to handle his emotions and live without the ""guidance"" of Baro, come later.
Though, granted, as you mentioned, that a lot of this is just due to not being able to focus on every side character. So, this theorization "goes too deep", because things just needed to be wrapped up quickly, and Neige was given a very, very rushed redemption arc.
I really don't know, I'm just making a lot of (more or less) educated speculations ^^'
Thank you for the ask!
#black clover#black clover neige#anon flamelets#I'm so happy you like my little thoughts and insights!
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Buddies Daddies Ep 11 Can no longer be repaired
Something catching BD is how from the beginning they make it clear to us that the actions of the characters, are not good, nor correct, each character is selfish and irresponsible in their own way (as only real adults, basically) AND EVEN SO all actions revolve around hurting/protecting Miri. At the same time, trying to save her every character does a damage, but this one is unbearable and there is no choice but to move on. Something that is emphasized in the last chapters
If we start with Misaki, at first we are presented as a selfish and irresponsible woman who blames others for her failures. She claims to be deceived by Miri's father, but being a human trafficker, she clearly engages with people with professions as dangerous as those of Kazuki and Rei….. Yes, she mentions "having been deceived by the father," (not if she meant that she didn't know her true profession or if it was just an affair until she left pregnant), frustrating her dreams of being a singer. Something she ended up blaming on Miri, to justify abandoning her and sending her to her father so she could get money. (At that point, Miri could be killed by her own father, abandoned elsewhere, or worse, killed in the confrontation between Rei, Kazuki and the target)
We assumed that because of Miri's cheerful personality, she never harmed Miri and only kept her frustration to herself, but being contained by those feelings came to such a point that she even wished to hit Miri when she laughed. Clearly, Miri wasn't laughing at her mother, let alone being to blame for anything. It was Misaki projecting her discomfort with herself on Miri and wanting to avoid facing the reality of her bad decisions.
When Kazuki knows Misaki clearly her current decisions without her daughter are no better. Her current partner beats and humiliates her, and far from fulfilling her dream as a singer she finds herself stuck in bars of little value, sinking into her own misery.
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The cruelty of it all is to discover in the course of a year that she had cancer, and to realize that the only real thing she had in this world is Miri, her daughter. To recapture he had to discover that he was practically going to die perhaps sooner rather than later, and to want to take Miri away from two men who were REALLY her parents by discovering that they are two killers. (But as I said before, their professions are no less dangerous than those of Miri's real father with whom she is supposed to have been sent)
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I really expected Misaki to die, even if she honestly didn't stop feeling a bad taste of her mouth. She really is a character with whom you manage to empathize with her redemption and you feel terrible to see her die saying goodbye to her daughter in her sleep. The fact that the chapter shows that she really wanted to change and was striving to be a good mother makes everything much more painful.
I wish Misaki was alive in the last chapter (even knowing that she was going to die anyway) or that she simply had lived to not solve so simply (?) the spectator's conflict - After all, it was complex to wish Miri would stay away from her and stay with her parents when she was clearly changed and Miri loves her mother very much (like her parents)… But I understand the decisions at the narrative level and really the season is about to end, so I understand that perhaps it is the most logical decision not to continue extending the misaki arc.
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The interesting thing about reflecting is how selfish decisions and mistakes bring us to a point of no return, and we will never know to what extent the consequences will escalate. If Misaki had never abandoned Miri, she would not have gone that Christmas night, would not have seen her dad (die) and would not have met Rei and Kazuki. And most likely she would not have died in the hands of the murderous organization Suwa. But fate took cruel turns and in the end she had to leave her daughter again: (
In the end you understand that Misaki was a good person sunk in bad decisions, frustration and that she took the easiest path but with the worst consequences. She really didn't deserve that ending, she really deserved to live next door to her daughter. But clearly, the fate of the work was cruel
Certainly, even with redemption not everyone has a happy ending
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For the what if asks. In ACOTAD what would've happened if Cassian joined the rebellion alongside Nesta and the other two traitors?
And in Road to Ruin what if Anna had actually died during the execution?
Hi anon! Okay so I'll start with Cassian since his AU would be more complex.
The main problem with Nessian is the fact that Cassian is more loyal to Rhysand than to his own mate going as far as to punish her instead of fighting Rhysand when he threatened her.
The scene at the balcony is meant to show that. That when given the chance to wipe the slate clean and get Nesta back by renouncing Rhysand, Cassian wouldn't yield and chose to stay loyal to Rhysand instead.
So in this 'what If where he chooses to betray Rhysand the biggest problem is gone. They could start over...or could they?
Nesta is a woman of her word, she'd stay on Night and be willing to get back with Cassian after he proved his loyalty. But she wouldn't go back to being who the IC forced her to be.
Nesta would still eat what she pleases, train only if she desired to, dress how she wanted to, and have friendships outside of Night. This could not sit well with Cassian but he couldn't say anything cuz well, what is he gonna do about it? Lock Nesta up? He can't, and even if he oculd she'd just leave again, now having methods and a support system who'd break her out.
Cassian would either have to accept and love the woman Nesta truly is or let her go. He'd have to also dealt with the guilt of the betrayal as many people he loved and cared for are gone, or incarcerated (assuming the black hole isn't used here) Feyre and Morrigan are saved at least but he could be resentful toward them too for the betrayal, especially Feyre in regards to Rhys.
Finally there's the jealousy. I don't see Cassian being polyamorous and while Nesta would be willing to try again with him she wouldn't let go of her frienships in Autumn, Eris included. While he'd respect her choices Eris would still be in love with her and given all the insecurities Cassian has he'd be paranoid that Nesta could cheat with him. Even if she wouldn't.
So Cassian would be resentful of the woman who broke the bond, isn't who he wanted to marry (cuz she's healed from ACOSF), caused him to betray his brothers and friends, and who he feels has other options more suited to her. In the end he would break things off voluntarily because tbh in canon he's done nothing that makes me think he'd love this version of Nesta.
At best he makes a good life for himself in Illyria or Velaris and marries someone else who does fit his wants and needs, at worst he tries to stage a counter rebellion (would fail because no one would join him) or he tries to avenge Rhysand by fighting the regency (they'd kill him in self defense) or at the very lowest he'd commit suicide.
Safe to say unless he calms down, Cassian would still doom himself in this version.
***
As for Anna Maria dying, things would play out more akin to canon Bleach, with no overlap between fullbringer arc and this new arc (a.e. Aizen and Ginjo aren't allies) and the only major differences would be no quincy arc and Ulquiorra along with others being alive at the end of the winter war.
Anna drives a lot of the plot in Ruin and Redemption so her dying halfway through ruin could derail a lot. Aizen would go mad much sooner, Kaname would be more vengeful and the plot would change since there's no villain for the first part of Road to Redemption without Anna. So the story wouldn't happen. It'd be basically canon but now Ulquiorra is there and he and Orihime are roomies/ later a couple. That's it. It's canon storyline with a few touchups.
So safe to say without Anna there's no Roads series. Unless another took her place as main 'villian'
#ask#anon#acotar ask#bleach ask#what if fanfic ask game#anti nessian#pro Nesta#neris#a court of threads & daisies#road to ruin#anna maria de la rosa
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For the ask game: Snape. 1, 5 and 15
Oooh you’re batting at a hornets’ nest mentioning anything HP related on this website lol but yes, I’ll happily talk about Snape!
[Questions from this meme]
1.My first impression of them I remember always loving Snape. He was one of my favourite characters right off the bat, when I first read the series. Him, Hermione, and Sirius, I would say. That changed over time wherein I dropped Sirius but added in Lucius and Lupin.
I always loved his sense of humour—that man is hands down one of the funniest bitches in that series.
5. My favorite ship of them Snape/Lucius/Narcissa bay-byyyy. It’s the ultimate ot3 and the best pairing anyone can squeeze out of that series, no one can convince me otherwise.
I think their dynamic is really interesting, especially how it changed both over the course of their lives as well as within the series itself. Like there’s clearly layers to their friendship, some real deep complexities. Even when Snape’s switches sides, he feels connected to them and cares for them.
Especially Snape and Narcissa—that scene when she’s asking him to take care of Draco and do, on behalf of Draco, what Voldemort wants. What an ask! What trust she has in him! Because her request could have gotten all of them killed, a single whiff of it getting out to Voldemort, and they’re dead. But she was desperate and knew she could rely on Snape, that at the end of the day he would do the right thing by her and her son (less so Lucius but honestly, Lucius honey, sit down for ten minutes).
And while this ship for sure can go down the road of “they all make each other worse” it can also go the other direction. Especially post-war/the series. Because sorry to the heartless individual who wrote this series, but Snape lived. I enjoy thinking through what Lucius and Narcissa’s rehabilitation/deprogramming would look like. Because they were all, ultimately, in a cult. A racist, fucked up cult that did horrible things. There’s a lot to unpack and unlearn. Not everything can be reconciled. Especially if you were a leader or super active member how Lucius was.
I also live for Snape as the other father figure in Draco’s life.
15. Worst storyline they had I mean, as with most of the good parts within HP, I don’t think JK knew what she had. I suspect Snape’s arc, and the nuance in there of a person who was on the dark-side coming in from the cold, so to speak, who is trying to be good but isn’t always successful, and he certainly isn’t nice, but niceness isn’t required for redemption etc. All that—I really suspect that was unintentional. And she certainly didn’t know what she had with it. Nor with the complex layers to his relationship with Lily.
I think the worst thing that happened was his death. I think Snape should have lived (and Harry should have died/stayed dead). But JK was a) too much of a coward to have that happen and b) writing a children’s book series that was structured along fairly simplistic lines and so you can’t really have the hero die and one of the anti-hero/grey-antagonists live. She wasn’t writing a gritty, grim-dark series. When she started HP, harry dying wasn’t part of the deal made with the readers, so to speak.
Anyway, I think it was dumb and he should have lived.
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Thank you for the ask!! <3 <3
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Extraordinary Attorney Woo was at its best in the early episodes when the drama was all about weirdly banal cases that offered a portrait of contemporary Korean society, albeit through the soft-focus lens of a K-drama. The stakes were low, but the entertainment was high and every case offered a little bit of insight. Like the case about the 'wardrobe malfunction' at the wedding.
This was undoubtedly one of the best episodes in Extraordinary Attorney Woo. I doubt anyone would have anticipated that an episode that began with a husband putting his arms around his wife to protect her modesty would end with a wonderful statement in favour of queer love. The episode started with a celebration of a patriarchal institution and systematically broke it down with every consecutive scene. I thought the cherry on the cake was Woo Young-woo being the young woman's ally, but there was yet another fantastic twist in the tale after that when the young woman came out to her father.
My other favourite episode was Lee Bong-ryun as the idealistic, feminist lawyer who appears for the two married woman who go to court in the hope of bringing to light the sexism in corporate policies. This was such a charming watch because it showed us two perspectives — that of the scrappy, solo fighter that Lee plays; and the sensitivity that a big player can show when it has people like Kang Ki-young's Myung-seok displays. Lee is also such a joy to watch, especially in the bits with the judge. I loved that the writing made it clear that even though Hanbada won on paper, the real triumph was the women's who were not fazed by the court verdict. They knew they didn't stand much chance of winning, but they went ahead because they wanted their dissent to register and be part of a public conversation. The end of the episode, with all the women gathered together, was just full heartmelt. In fact, this was the episode that made me wish there would be a second season in which Young-woo would join Lee's firm.
Yet for all the charm that this drama has, it has two major stumbling blocks. One is the character of "Tactician Min-woo", who is initially the kind of person who has a full victim complex even though they have no reason to feel victimised. Then, in the last few episodes, the drama decided Min-woo had to be redeemed. Most characters have a redemption arc; in Min-woo's case, it's a spike and we're supposed to accept that he's actually a good guy (despite all the odious things he did and said earlier) because Su-yeon likes him. I'm sorry, but it makes no sense. Even if I assume that love is irrational (insert eye roll here) and thus Su-yeon, without warning, finds she's forgotten all the things she (justifiably) hated about Min-woo, the drama needed to make Min-woo apologise to Young-woo. He was a proper bully to her and the heart eyes that the drama makes at Min-woo in the last three episodes makes it seem as though his bullying shouldn't be held against him. That's messed up.
Similarly, what is up with Young-woo's dad? I understand that parenting is tough, but he's constantly making it about his troubles and his challenges, and the drama suggests this is acceptable. From early on, the drama makes it seem as though Young-woo breezes through life while her father suffers heartbreak after heartbreak because she's on the autism spectrum. Both as a child and as an adult, we're told she doesn't offer him comfort when he needs it. Of course it's valid to talk about how difficult parenting can be, but there should have been some indication of how difficult it was for Young-woo to make sense of the world around her.
It's also really problematic how Young-woo's dad considers her his property. The show doesn't address how he seems to encourage Young-woo to break up with Jun-ho — which could be seen as a way of ensuring she stays with her father and under is control. Control seems to be a major part of being a father in Bae-soo's book and the drama is happy to give him control over Young-woo's life. It's as though she 'owes' him that power because of all the challenges he faced while raising her when in fact he was doing what he signed up for. After all, he's the one who insisted Tae Su-mi have the child rather than opt for an abortion (as though her concerns are a sign of moral corruption which they're not). Arguably, his decision to set up a gimbap shop rather than pursue his law degree is irresponsible as a single father, but the show insists he's being heroic. In contrast, the show has no sympathy for a young Su-mi, who finds herself pregnant as a single young woman. There's no hint given to how difficult it must have been for her to convince her family to let her have the baby or how hard it was for her to give up the newborn child. Later, we're to have no sympathy for Su-mi as a parent — her response to finding out her son is a hacker is melodramatic and appalling — as though it's a cakewalk to raise a preternaturally intelligent kid who can go around hacking any device in sight.
The show never gives Su-mi a chance. The first time we see her, we're told she's privileged and benefiting from nepotism (she inherited the top spot at the law firm from her father). In the court case that she fights, we see Taesan's methods range from unscrupulous to being corrupt. Then she makes the offer of giving Young-woo a job in Taesan's American branch — not out of the kindness of her heart, but because she wants Young-woo out of sight and out of mind as she runs for the position of the Minister of Justice. Instead of approaching Young-woo, she goes to Bae-soo first. Again, the show doesn't see anything weird about that. Similarly, the CEO of Hanbada talks to Bae-soo when she's politicking, as though Young-woo is incapable of thinking for herself. Perhaps the most glaring example of Bae-soo's controlling streak is when he makes a deal with the CEO of Hanbada and tells her that Young-woo can be used for the CEO's ends only once. At no point does the show encourage the viewers to ask what gives Bae-soo the right to decide this? That too without even discussing the matter with Young-woo. At no point does anyone, least of all Young-woo, point out that Young-woo's life is her own. Her father does not get to make decisions about her.
It's a major problem that both the older women in Extraordinary Attorney Woo are shown as immoral and villainous. Tae Su-mi is demonised for having wanted an abortion as a student and ultimately, she has to lose her professional success — she excuses herself from the ministerial race — in order to be considered a good mother. That's disappointingly regressive. Meanwhile, we've been through 16 episodes, but we still don't know why the CEO of Hanbada has such a hostile relationship with Tae Su-mi. The show takes the time to explain (unconvincingly) how Tae Su-mi's son found out the secret that practically no one knows, but it doesn't feel the need to give an explanation for the animosity between these two women, who are both heading up law firms. It's almost as though the show is urging the viewer to go with the stereotype that women are inclined to have catfights with one another. It's a sharp contrast to the friendships Young-woo has with her girlfriends, but it's worth noting that neither of these friendships are with people who can be considered either her equal or her senior. Geurami may have some street-smart qualities, but she's quite obviously neither as smart nor as successful as Young-woo. There's less of an imbalance between Su-yeon and Young-woo, but it's clear that Su-yeon knows Young-woo is the better lawyer. She never competes with Young-woo.
For a show that began with so much heart and gave us so much to love, the last few episodes have felt disappointing and occasionally careless. After Young-woo described herself as a narwhal in a conversation with Su-mi, I expected to see a narhwal outside her train window in the last sequence. Instead, it was the regular humpback whale again and as beautiful as these VFX bits are in Extraordinary Attorney Woo, it would have been nice to see a narwhal swimming with a pod of belugas.
#Extraordinary Attorney Woo#Extraordinary Attorney Woo Ep2#Extraordinary Attorney Woo Ep12#Kdrama#What do Kdrama writers have against older women?
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Zoya and the Darkling [Rule of Wolves Spoilers]
It’s a pity that fandoms mostly focus on romantic/sexual relationships, because The Darkling and Zoya have one of the most epic dynamics in the Grishaverse. The way they affect each other is so complex.
Zoya did not go to the Little Palace after being tested in the usual manner of Grisha travelling across Ravka to recruit children with powers. She was a young girl, a child really, living with a bitter and broken mother, in a home where her Suli inheritance was not appreciated, in a country that would condemn her both because of the power she let her demonstrated AND because of who she would have been without it. She was basically sold as a child-bride and her mother deluded herself into thinking that her daughter would not be raped by the old man she was marrying so that she’d feel better about herself, not to mention that she poisoned Zoya with her fears and made her afraid of her own heart. At the wedding her power broke loose and her aunt took her to a hard journey to the Little Palace so that Zoya would be tested and have a chance at a better life.
Zoya was taken in and she was separated from her family, but her aunt was ALWAYS in her heart. She started training and she was stronger than most, she was also driven and resilient. She arrived at the Little Palace when she was 8-9. When she was 13, she was the youngest one to be chosen as part of a group that would travel with the Darkling to Tsibeya to find the white tigers of Ilmisk because one of them was supposed to be an amplifier. By that age, Zoya was half in love with him already and she lived for his rare appearances at the school. She was the best, she had fought to be so, and he wanted him to see it. The Grisha were focused on hunting the female tiger, but the amplifier was a male one. He tried to kill the female’s cubs and Zoya gave them the protection of her body, she got scars that she never had tailored and she almost died, and killed the tiger to defend the cubs; not for the sake of power.
It wasn’t HER turn to get the amplifier, but since she killed the tiger only she could claim it. And THIS brilliant scene happens:
Some part of me always feared that he would send me away, banish me forever from the Little Palace. I told him I was sorry.
“But the Darkling saw me clearly even then. ‘Is that really what you wish to say?’ he asked.”
Zoya pushed a dark strand of her hair behind her ear. “So I told him the truth. I put my chin up and said, ‘They can all hang. It was my blood in the snow.’”
Nikolai stifled a laugh and a smile played over Zoya’s lips. It dwindled almost instantly, replaced by a troubled frown. “That pleased him. He told me it was a job well done. And then he said … ‘Beware of power, Zoya. There is no amount of it that can make them love you.’”
The weight of the words settled over Nikolai. Is that what we’re all searching for? Was that what he’d hunted in all those library books? In his restless travels? In his endless pursuit to seize and then keep the throne? “Was it love you wanted, Zoya?”
She shook her head slowly. “I don’t think so. I wanted … strength. Safety. I never wanted to feel helpless again.”
“Like calls to like” fits the Darkling and Alina, but it also fits Zoya and the Darkling… in fact it fits Zoya and Aleksander even more so. Both were powerful and KNEW it. Both eventually learned to be unapologetic about it and saw it as their safety net. Both were taught that power would give them safety, survival, fulfillment in some ways, but not love. And yet, as much as they denied it and hid their hearts they DID want to be loved more than anything.
Zoya only rises thereafter. She gets her rank, she is one of the most valued Grisha in the Little Palace, she is admired for her strength and beauty, she armors herself with arrogance, and ruthlessness. But she has not friends. Both her and the Darkling are surrounded by people, they are admired, but they don’t have people close to their heart. The Darkling always cared about Baghra as much as he could still manage and Zoya cared only bout Liliyana and Lada (an orphan girl that her aunt had taken in).
The Darkling SAW her. He saw how she tried like no other, he saw her pain, her anger and he considered these to be things that he could use to control her and to push her towards the direction he desired. And despite not being appreciative of her devotion when he had it, he missed it when it was gone.
When Alina got in the picture everything changed for Zoya. Yes, Zoya had feelings for the Darkling and I DO believe that her feelings and vanity would have been hurt to some extent by the intimacy in the way he approached Alina, but the primary problem was Zoya’s sense of injustice. Zoya had tried for YEARS, had trained hard, had sacrificed to be where she is. Alina never asked for any of it, but from Zoya’s perspective Alina would have been an untrained Grisha who got all the status, power and recognition that SHE had fought for without even trying. Until then, Zoya had been praised for wanting power, but when her anger is not convenient anymore, the Darkling punishes her for it and does not have a second thought about her.
And yet she remained loyal as always.
Even more so than rank, the Darkling and Liliyana were Zoya’s safety-net. And in ONE MOMENT, by genociding Novokribirsk, Zoya’s own mentor, the one who gave her safety and who was meant to create a haven for the Grisha, a person who KNEW her and who KNEW that she had family there, showed that he had no care for her, not care for human life and she wiped out the last people that Zoya loved.
He left her broken inside. In Siege and Storm, Zoya was at her lowest. She has to plead to Alina to have a position in the second army and she has to reveal a part of her heart; not just her loss of Liliyana. Her voice BREAKS when she says that the Darkling could have warned her of his plan; her pain at the idea that he did not give a crap about taking EVERYTHING from her is raw and cutting.
But she is not a quitter. She adjusts, she pulls her pieces together fast, she is a warrior and she stays on the right side without a question.
Then the Darkling attacked the very Grisha he was supposedly fighting for and killed half the people that Zoya had EVER KNOWN. And she still keeps fighting.
Enter Rule of Wolves. There is SUCH DEEP IRONY in this book and the way Zoya and the Darkling’s arcs interconnect is a prime example of Leigh’s amazing writing.
The Darkling had told Zoya that they would change the world and he completely stopped paying attention to her the moment the potential of Alina’s power blinded him to anything else. And yet, when he returns Zoya has gained the kind of power that could eventually rival his own. But he STILL thinks that he should be the one to rule Ravka. He still thinks that he is the best option for the country. And once more, he criminally underestimates Zoya and overestimates himself.
Who else is vengeful and afraid of his own heart, I wonder…
Aleksander considered Zoya weak for the very same things that were his own fatal flaws.
But unlike him, Zoya SAW her flaws. The Darkling shut himself off more and more in order to save himself from pain. Zoya eventually opened up her heart to grief and pain to become the person her country needed and to embrace her power. She opened the door, when the Darkling did not manage to do so. She showed more courage than he did… and he SAW it.
Aleksander hoped to become the savior during the battle, he wished to demonstrate how only HE could save Ravka. But seeing Nikolai and Zoya defending the country is the first time it registers that there are others who are up to the task and who may be better suited than he is.
And he becomes essential in Zoya being accepted as a saint and in her rise to power partly because he wants to gain her favor but also because he finally sees all her potential, all she can achieve, how a Grisha queen of such power might give the Grisha the haven they need, when he clearly can’t.
And what is left for him to do? What does he want? He wants to serve the country he loves in a way that will affirm his sense of self-importance (he wants to offer something that no one else can) and he wants to be loved. So his new objective is to stop the blight.
The blight was created because of his own power. This man who hunted down and ruined the life of a young girl (Alina) in order to force her to be his balance, so that he could freely use his power in a very imbalanced way, finally realizes that HE is responsible for his power and that HE can be the only one to balance it and himself. So there is a new path he sees ahead of him: he can sacrifice himself to stop the blight and in the process Ravka might finally see that he always wanted to protect the country… and it might love him back. He KNOWS that he has committed crimes, he does not seek redemption, but he desired for all he has done to matter. And it can’t matter if he is not at all responsible for its country’s well-being and if everyone hates him. He has lived so many lifetimes without happiness or fulfillment and they would all have been wasted.
But he can’t achieve this by himself. This man who always thought that he could do things alone, and who took away everything Zoya had fought for, NEEDS her allowance for his centuries-long life to gain a scrap of meaning. He needs her allowance to be appreciated and loved.
I can’t be the only one who sees what a beautiful twist of fate this is.
At the same time Zoya herself understands the Darkling. She understands how anger and using power as a coping mechanism can corrupt. Knowing herself and seeing how he turned out are essential in her becoming a good ruler. He is the cautionary tale of what she could but will never allow herself to become.
When he explains his plan, she KNOWS that he’ll be in eternal pain and she has does not mind that his will be his fate. But when she sees the aftermath of his sacrifice and when she feels the kind of pain he’ll be experiencing for eternity, it leaves her shaken. She feels that pain in her own heart and this is not a fate that she wishes even on him. Genya and Alina are very much willing to let him rot but Zoya, who also believed that she could forgive him, feels that she has to.The Darkling has not redeem himself. He is doing penance. But as Genya mentions, there’s a fine line when one has to do the math of how much a person has to pay and of how much pain they have to feel before their punishment stops being just and they become victims instead. Zoya, being afraid of becoming him, knows that learning to show forgiveness is the only way forward, it’s the way for her to keep her heart open and not become the avalanche.
Zoya Nazyalensky has become everything that Aleksander Morozova, the lost boy, wished to be. Poweful, eternal, with friends, with a true partner, holding the best position a Grisha could imagine without forcing her rule and finally giving their people a true chance without comprominsing them.
The Darkling was hoping that Alina would have been his balance. We are told how she might make him a better man and she might make him a monster.
But at the end of the day it’s Zoya who allows the Darkling to become the closest thing to decent that he can be at this point.
It’s the Darkling’s life that allows Zoya to see the lines that she will not cross and how to not become a monster.
And it’s Zoya’s ability to forgive him and her willingness to save him that becomes the backbone for the next phase of the Grishaverse, whenever Leigh decides to write it.
The way their paths entangle will always be at the core of the story.
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@myfriendscallmeraba I’m tagging you because you asked for it. It’s very encouraging to have someone interested in my ramblings.
#shadow and bone#rule of wolves#row#zoya nazyalensky#the darkling#aleksander morozova#sab meta#row meta
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This fandom has a very strange divide when it comes to Shannon Diaz.
I say strange because I don’t think you’re all as divided as you think you are. I think you’re coming from different places and completely missing each other. I might be wrong, but let me explain what I mean.
First, it’s possible to have multiple emotions and opinions about a character. You don’t have to despise a character completely or adore a character completely. And if you do either of those things, you should acknowledge when a character isn’t two-dimensional. Like, I love this character including their flaws. Or even, I love this character despite their flaws.
The issue with Shannon is that the diverging opinions seem to be coming from two different places. I say this because I personally have differing opinions regarding Shannon that align with both “sides” of this depending on how I’m looking at her.
There are opinions regarding Shannon’s character inside the narrative, and there are opinions regarding Shannon’s character outside the narrative. And those opinions clash.
I’m going to explain this as clearly as I can.
Inside the narrative, we’re talking about Shannon as though she’s a real person and we’re judging that character based on her actions.
The main thing people talk about, of course, is Shannon abandoning Eddie and more importantly Chris.
Then others point out that Eddie also left, but fans have been willing to forgive him. So why not Shannon? To which Side #1 points out that Eddie "redeemed” himself whereas Shannon did not. To which Side #2 points out that Shannon didn’t get the chance to redeem herself because she was hit by a car.
I tend to fall more in line with Side #1 on this though I understand where Side #2 is coming from. And there are two main reasons why. (Though again, please understand that Side #2 falls more in line with the outside narrative which I’ll address in a minute.)
One reason is because I feel like Side #2 is misrepresenting the differences between Shannon and Eddie as parents and what they “did”. And I’m not talking about Eddie being gone for work whereas Shannon just left. I’m intimately aware that money is no substitute for a person’s actual presence. My dad can help me out as much as he wants financially, and I know he loves me. But it will never compare to everything my mom has done for me emotionally by supporting me as a person and really getting to know and understand me.
When I say there’s a difference between Shannon’s form of “leaving” and Eddie’s form of “leaving”, I mean this. Shannon completely removed herself from her son’s life. She was gone. She didn’t even stay in contact as far as we know. Whereas Eddie may have run away physically, but he was still there in a way. He still communicated with both Shannon and Chris. He still went home to them on leave. I’m not defending what he did or saying that he was being the parent or husband he needed to be. I’m just saying that these two things are different. And I would honestly argue that one is more easy to “forgive” than the other, but that’s just my personal opinion.
Now. The second reason I tend to fall in line with Side #1 from inside the narrative is because Side #2 is kind of assuming that Shannon would have redeemed herself if given the chance and that she was worthy of that forgiveness.
They might be right, but they also might be wrong. First of all, loving your child does not excuse hurting them. And while Shannon did love Chris, she also caused him a large amount of emotional pain. So even if she did “redeem herself” as a parent, no one is obligated to forgive her for abandoning him. And it’s important to note that if Shannon were Chris’ father instead of his mother, people would probably be far less inclined to even give her a second chance. Much less think that trying to better herself and be a better parent meant people were obliged to forgive her and see her more favorably. It’d be more like “Oh. So now he wants to step up and be there.” Whereas for a mom it’s like “Oh, she was struggling so much. And she came back. And she loves her son. Etc.”
As a society, we tend to put moms on a pedestal and see dads as secondary. And it affects how we react to the things they do.
But also, even inside the narrative, there’s no guarantee that she actually would have stuck around for Chris. She completely abandoned him once, and she could do it again. And arguably, it would be easier to do the second time. Even if she loved Chris and didn’t want to hurt him. She loved him the first time too. Loving someone doesn’t mean you’re incapable of causing them pain. So this idea that Shannon would have redeemed herself is a hopeful one. Not a fact. And even if she did, no one is obligated to forgive her. There’s no scale where if she does enough good things, it magically erases the bad. Forgiveness is personal. You choose to forgive someone. People can’t buy it from you with their actions.
Now, let’s talk about outside the narrative.
This is where I more line up with Side #2.
When people say Shannon “deserved” a redemption arc and that what was done to her character was fucked up, it’s not a defense of her inside the narrative. At least in my understanding.
This is where you’re talking about Shannon from a creative standpoint. Where you’re stepping back from the story and viewing her as a character.
Let me explain.
While you may not like Shannon as a person, creatively she was a well-developed character. She was complex and had a variety of motives. She had an actual background that we got to see bits of in Eddie Begins. She was built into someone important who could have played a very interesting role in the story.
Instead, they basically fridged her. They said “Eh. I don’t feel like dealing with this character and all the complexities they add to the story, so let’s just kill her off.” And they did. They turned an interesting and multi-faceted character into a plot device and used her death to focus on Eddie. The woman died, and her death became all about Eddie. (And Chris, but the man pain was the main focus. Let’s be real.)
It was sloppy and weak writing, and I would argue that yes. Shannon’s character deserved to be handled better. Not because she was a great person, but because she was a good character. Not to mention the fact that it’s also a bit misogynistic because this sort of nonsense is almost always geared at female characters. Not the male ones.
(If you watch Lone Star, they pulled some similar nonsense with Charles Vega. And I was pissed. And so was a lot of the fandom. Tommy got an entire episode devoted to her coming to terms with his death, but I’ll be interested to see if they drag her grief out for an entire season like they did for Eddie. If her pain has the same level of focus his did. Because if they skip to her moving on, I will burst into ugly laughter. Especially when unlike with Eddie and Shannon, Tommy and Charles had a very loving and well-founded relationship that was going strong. So, the idea that Eddie would be more consumed by grief over Shannon than Tommy would be over Charles would have me side-eying the screen a bit. Even though I know grief is a very personal process. But I’m getting sidetracked. Back to Shannon.)
I’m not saying Shannon’s character should have been handled better in that she deserved to redeem herself and be forgiven and be a mom to Chris and yadda yadda. That’s all inside the narrative.
I’m saying that as a character, it would have been better to follow her. Not run her over with a car. Even if she had that “redemption arc”, it would be a more compelling story for her to fail. For her to try and redeem herself and then get “overwhelmed” by parenthood and make more mistakes. And if she didn’t continue to fail, there could have been the focus on divorce and how that affects families and children. How she and Eddie navigate their issues with one another to continue parenting Chris.
Instead, no. They killed her. It was lazy and irritating writing.
So, that’s what I mean when I say I don’t think you’re all as divided as you might believe.
Because honestly, I think most of you have a more complex view of her that lines up with this in a lot of ways, but it’s not something people have time to really explain. So, it comes out as “Ugh. I don’t like Shannon,” which rubs some people wrong who are viewing her as a character. Or it comes out as “Ugh. Shannon deserved better,” which rubs other people wrong who are viewing her as a person and parent.
This is just what I’m seeing and taking away from everything, and I hope it helps clear things up for some of you. Or gives you a better understanding of where the other side might be coming from. ❤️
I don’t claim to speak for the entire fandom. It’s just eyebrow-raising to me. Because I hold both opinions, so I don’t really get why there’s a big debate.
#and there i go word vomiting on tumblr again#lol!#in this essay i will#shannon diaz#911 discourse#long post#mist speaks
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so i just found some old interviews of spop, especially ones after the finale, and i just wanted to dissect some of the interesting parts:
the crew themselves keep reinforcing the idea that only catra saw adora for who she is, when the show itself says otherwise multiple times. catra, who mocked adora for never being a true hero, who kept hurting adora because she resented her for being she-ra, who kept saying that adora has a hero complex and that she is full of herself. that catra “motivated and inspired” adora?
“i wanted their romance to be the central arc”
this explains everything. the fact that they took an existing show with an intriguing fantasy world and so much potential and then reduced it to “cute lesbians kiss haha”. if you're gonna write a show about romance, do that. you don't have to butcher an already existing series for that.
“it reveals how that arc has been built”
what arc? is the arc we're talking about in the same room as us? because from what i can see, they put in zero effort to make c//a's development even halfway coherent. catgirl tortures hero for four seasons, gets saved by said hero and joins the good guys, continues torturing hero. how is that an arc?
so.. they have the right idea here. catra and adora did indeed need to take their time away from each other and deal with their problems. but did they? adora came close to building her self-esteem and realizing that she didn't have to take responsibility for everything around her. but then all that was reversed in s5 when she was forced into a relationship with the same person who ruined her sense of self-worth in the first place.
catra.. doesn't even try. the closest she got to moving on from her past was during her time in the crimson waste but then she ends up spiralling even deeper into toxicity, adding more and more into her list of crimes. in s5, she is shown to reflect on her relationship with adora but does she learn anything from it? nope. she continues abusing and berating adora, she continues giving adora mixed signals and relying on adora to do all the work in the relationship.
so the crew seemingly had the right idea (although i'd say they still shouldn't get into a relationship, even after they've worked on their issues) but never followed through. instead they gave us a lazy and rushed redemption, where the wrongdoer never works on their flaws and instead puts all the blame on their partner. amazing.
so nate himself admits that not all of catra's actions were justified. but then, why does the show try to justify them? why does the show justify catra abusing adora by implying that it's because adora abandoned her? why does the show justify all of catra's toxic and abusive behaviour by blaming it solely on shadow weaver? if catra's actions cannot be justified, the narrative should keep her accountable, which they don't.
secondly, i'll try not to assume the worst of nate's personality from what he said, and just get to the important part.
“It's other people's decision to forgive you, that's not a given, but also there are ways for you to fix what's broken. You have to work hard to prove yourself again, you have to actually actively fix what's done, it's not as simple as a sacrifice.”
i'm so confused. the way nate says it, you'd think he applied all of this to catra's arc. but he didn't. “it's not as simple as a sacrifice” but a sacrifice was all it took for catra to be forgiven by her victims. she doesn't work on herself, her apologies were shallow, and she continues repeating the same mistakes. “it's other people's decision to forgive you” yet every single character forgives catra immediately and none of them are allowed to stay mad at her.
how could you write such a bad redemption and then talk about it as if it had all the details and nuance it was lacking? again, when speaking, nate seems to have the right idea of how to write a redemption arc. why did they fumble so badly when it came to actually executing it in the story? the only answer i can think of is that none of the writers in the crew are good at writing.
#spop critical#spop#spop salt#spop criticism#spop discourse#she ra#anti catradora#anti catra#anti c//a#anti spop#antic//a#anticatra#anticatradora
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OMORI has poor writing (Part 1)
OMORI stans, just block the #omori hate tag now because I’m going to use it to vent my frustrations with this game. If you love this game, I am not going to try to convince you otherwise. I am glad you enjoyed it so much. I am glad it means a lot to you. I’m not here to take that away from you. I honestly wish I felt the same way!
However, if you are like me and finished the game feeling disappointed, underwhelmed, and maybe a little frustrated, then I am here to say you are not alone. OMORI--while having the right set pieces for an interesting game--is a narrative mess.
I’m splitting this into two posts. This first post is about problems with the plot. The second is about problems with the message/moral.
(Note: I use “OMORI” in all-caps for the game title, and “Omori” in title case for the character name.)
Spoilers and criticism below.
Part 1: Plot Writing Lies
There’s a book by Brian McDonald called Invisible Ink which is about how to write a compelling story (you can read this great book online for free here). There’s an explanation of the writing “lie” that I find myself frequently thinking of. A “lie” in this context does not mean something is literally untrue, it means something FEELS untrue, unrealistic, improbable, or unlikely. For example, if a character gets shot in the leg but manages to do parkour, this is a “lie” since it seems unrealistic for that to happen. If a character witnesses their beloved parent’s death and shrugs it off, it’s a “lie” because that reaction seems highly unlikely.
In OMORI, the plot is held together by multiple little lies that--try as I might--I just couldn’t bring myself to believe.
1. Sunny’s friends care about him, and vice versa
A major theme of the game is how friendship can overcome any obstacle. Friendship gets Sunny over his fear of heights, spiders, and water. Friendship is what Sunny remembers before the final boss fight, and allows him to face his guilt and defeat it (and prevent him from committing suicide). With the photobook and dialogue you are reminded over and over and over and over and over again that Sunny’s friends love him unconditionally.
However, I just couldn’t bring myself to believe it. The childhood memories are cute but shallow, boiling down to simply hanging out and eating treats. Plus, Kel and Aubrey fight constantly, with Aubrey even physically hitting Kel when he steps out of line. Hero and Mari behave more like babysitters than true friends to the younger kids.
But at least the other kids interact with each other. Sunny, on the other hand, showed nearly no affection or consideration towards his friends. He floats through the memories like a ghost--he could have been completely absent from all the photos and it would have made little difference. I was ready to accept this as Sunny being an unreliable narrator and not thinking he was a good enough for his friends, but this never contradicted. Instead we are given even more memories where Sunny just silently exists there being “cute.”
[Sunny enriching the lives of his friends by LARPING as a cat.]
Because of the lack of meaningful interactions between them, there was nothing in the game that made me think that these 12-15 year olds would have a strong enough bond that would survive 3-4 years of no contact after finding their friend hanged. In fact, that discovery only drove them farther apart. The only person who I could believe actually had a close bond was Basil, who almost literally filled that trope of being the friend who would help you bury a body (or in this case, help Sunny cover up the accidental manslaughter).
The writing fix for this would be simple: instead of showing us the same boring birthday and beach scenes over again, give the kids memories of overcoming some age-appropriate adversity together: heartbreak over an unrequited crush, anxiety over homework, sports injury, lost dogs, divorced parents, running away from home, bullying, etc. Set a precedent of the friends supporting each other through good times AND bad times. Without such backstory, Sunny’s friendships allegedly giving him the courage to overcome his guilt feels like a lie.
2. Sunny abandoning Basil in the bathroom scene
One of the most confusing moments in the game was Sunny’s negligence when Basil has his first breakdown in his bathroom. This part of the game is player-controlled, which is a strange writing decision because all you can do is click on Basil and various bathroom amenities over and over which completely saps the urgency out of the scene. When you try to leave, Basil begs Sunny to stay, but (due to a lack of player options) Sunny walks out without a word. With no option to talk to him OR get help for him, it makes Sunny seem exceptionally cruel to Basil. In fact, I was starting to wonder if the game was setting up for some sort of twist that Sunny DIDN’T care about his friends, which would fix some of the confusion in point #1. However, as we know, that is not the case. Therefore, Sunny’s negligence/apathy towards Basil’s pain feels like a lie.
The writing fix would be to make it MORE clear that Sunny is intentionally running away from Basil. Make it a cutscene, or, give a false choice such as “Leave Basil? Yes / Yes”. After Sunny leaves, Kel should make some remark about Sunny looking odd, “You look sort of shaken up, is there something you want to tell me?” then hit it home with Sunny shaking his head. This would make it more clear that Sunny is intentionally hiding Basil’s state, as opposed to just being a bad friend. As it stands, it just felt like a writing mistake.
3. Basil and Sunny working together to stage Mari’s death as a suicide
This is the plot hole that I see the most complaints over, but it’s so big I have to address it. Accidentally pushing Mari down the stairs I understand, but the rest is too absurd. Below are some of the “lies” that the writing tries to get away with:
That Sunny and Basil wouldn’t just claim she slipped and fell.
That either boy would even come up with this sick plan.
That they wouldn’t back out of this idea during the multi-step process (carrying her downstairs, outside, getting the jump rope, tying a noose, putting it around her neck, stringing her up, hiding the evidence... This is a series of multiple decisions, not one quick accident like the initial push.)
That it’s not the image of Mari’s death that traumatized Sunny, but the image of what they chose to do to her body that traumatized them. I understand the image of Mari hanging is more dramatic, but they literally did it themselves so why is that more haunting than Sunny killing her?
That Mari’s true cause of death wouldn’t be immediately obvious to the parents, the police, the friends, EVERYONE. (I’ve seen fans try to get rid of this plot hole by hypothesizing that the parents knew and covered it up, but the evidence of this is circumstantial at best. The father saying, “You’re not my son,” is unreliable since it happens in Sunny’s headspace. Divorce is common after the death of a child, and, at the very least, Sunny’s mom doesn’t show any evidence of knowing what happened. The way it is written, only Sunny and Basil know the truth.)
The ridiculousness of this twist is so extreme that it completely broke any immersion I had left. Frankly, the reveal that the happy, loveable Mari committed suicide is a far heavier and more realistic twist than a crazy murder-cover-up story is.
Additionally, it seems like Basil was only written into this scene in order to make Sunny the true victim of what happened. After all, Sunny may have pushed her, but it was Basil who came up with the demented cover up. (This is apparent from just the photos but the datamined Truth Album confirms it.) By having Basil come up with the plan, the game splits the guilt between the two of them to make the kids easier to sympathize with. It’s problematic because if Basil was not in the scene, there would be no way to justify what Sunny did to Mari. So why is what they did easier to accept when they worked together?
Fixing the writing lie: Sunny lies and says that Mari slipped. Remove Basil from the scene, and instead have Sunny confide in Basil which forces Basil to become a co-conspirator and burdens him with the terrible truth.
4. Sunny’s friends forgiving him and Basil for what they did to Mari
Last but not least, the story heavily implies that Hero, Kel, and Aubrey will forgive Basil and Sunny for what they did to Mari. I found this to be almost as unbelievable as the staged-suicide stunt.
It feels like a lie since the group’s friendship is never established as anything beyond shallow hang outs from 3+ years ago (see point #1).
It feels like a lie because this is hot off the heels of Aubrey being so distraught over Mari and the following fall out that in the last three days she 1.) attacked Sunny and Kel with a nail bat TWICE, 2.) Stole Basil’s photobook, and 3.) Shoved Basil in the lake. This trauma is still very fresh for her.
It feels like a lie because the complexity of the staged-suicide is so extreme, one would be hard pressed to forgive ANYONE for doing that, be it friend, foe, parent, sibling, lover, etc.
I’ve seen fans argue that the ending is not about forgiveness, it’s about telling the truth, and I want to believe that. Really. If the ending was about Sunny starting his redemption arc by telling the truth no matter what the consequences are, that would be a meaningful lesson. But the writing does not support that. The ending headspace segments are focused on assuring Sunny that his friends will support/forgive him no matter what. To do this, the game shows us the shallow photobook memories (again) to show how much they allegedly care about each other. Then, when fighting Omori, Sunny remembers these quotes from his friends, which directly correlate to their unconditional support:
KEL: Friends... Friends are supposed to be there for each other.
AUBREY: I hope you can find some peace... or you know... some happiness.
HERO: We made the mistake of leaving each other when we needed each other the most. This time... we’ll stay together.
BASIL: Maybe one day... things can go back to the way they were before.
The really direct evidence that this ending is about getting forgiveness is this quote from Basil in Sunny’s headspace:
[BASIL: “AUBREY, KEL and HERO are good friends. You have to trust that they’ll forgive us.”]
This is one of the last scenes before Sunny tells his friends the truth, proving that obtaining forgiveness from his FRIENDS is in fact the leading motivation for Sunny’s actions.
Fixing this writing lie is easy. Instead, adjust the writing to be about telling the truth, not about how much the friends will still love Sunny. Have headspace Basil say, “Even if they don’t forgive us, Aubrey, Kel, and Hero deserve to know the truth. It’s the only way to make things right... or close to it.”
Conclusion
OMORI is undeniably a cute game with a strong visual identity, and has a premise that could make for a very compelling experience. However, the sloppy plot and weak character writing cause the potential of this game to be squandered. There are other issues as well that I chose not to cover for the sake of time, such as the poor pacing of the dragged out dungeons and the bizarre, unrealistic behavior of characters in the “real” world.
However, there are a few more glaring problems with OMORI that I have to address: In part 2 of my critique, I break down what may be the biggest problem with OMORI’s writing: the message.
[ Link to Part 2: OMORI’s Message is Mishandled and Distasteful ]
#omori#omori hate#omori spoilers#review#words#fun fact i named sunny 'moony' so I had to consciously change all the moons to suns in this essay#suicide cw
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Whoopsy daisy I made a Shadow and Bone random thoughts post:
The costumes in this show are impeccable. I was drooling over all the keftas and the ball gowns in 1.05 and the crow outfits. Hell, even the winter-camo outfits that Mal, Mikhael and Dubrov wore in 1.04 were amazing.
Am I the only one who isn’t surprised by the kruge pronounciation? Because I thought it would sound like how English people say Scandinavian words and I wasn’t wrong.
Coming in to this show as someone who had only read the Six of Crows duology, I expected to at least tolerate Malina based on the trailer clips. I kid you not: less than five minutes into the very first episode they owned my ass. That might be a new record for me.
Seriously the friendship? The pining? The finding home in each other and being able to acknowledge their faults and apologize to each other? Both of them having massive “fight me” energy and protecting each other? Hugs?? Why am I surprised that I ship this?
Some of those scene transitions/flashback edits were so good! Like I know they repeated that meadow scene a lot throughout the season, but the cuts from kid-Mal looking at the rabbit to grown up Mal psyching himself up for the fist fight? Poetic cinema.
The Darkling was horrible and I love it. He wasn’t a carbon copy villain, nor did his complexity redeem him. He was a perfectly complex and understandable monster and I am living for it. I have not been so happy to despise a character in ages and I genuinely bow in gratitude to both the writers and Ben Barnes, because I finally got to enjoy watching a character I did not for one second root for ( #writevillainswellagain)
Look I already loved Jesper in the book but his on-screen translation elevated him from a fave to the fave. I was worried that they would push him into a comedic relief-role, but he got to keep both his heart, his depth, and his humour. Kit Young did an amazing job bringing what was already a great character on page to an even greater character on screen and I once again applaud.
Am I a bit bitter that the casting had some interesting choices for certain roles (aka hiring light skin and mid-size actors for explicitly darker skin and plus-size roles)? Kind of. Do I think there are important discussions worth having about this? Yup. Do I also think that every actor hired for Shadow and Bone did an amazing job and deserve zero hate and massive amounts of love? Also yes.
I had Alexei for one episode and one episode only, and I still miss that poor sucker. This show did a surprisingly good job with making me care about a massive amount of characters considering the screen time they had and the amount of episodes this season had. Good job.
For some reason I expected Inej to be a lot more brooding based on how I perceived her in the books but I love what Amita Suman did with her. Her translation completely recontextualised everything I remember from the books and just brought this truly fresh character to life. Assassin with a conscience indeed.
Also I did love the Kaz we got in this season but I can barely contain myself as I wait for season 2 to be made and for a certain flashback to take place because that moment in the book was visceral and it stayed with me for a long time and I knew before the show announcement that this flashback could become a television moment.
Speaking of Kaz the crows were so chaotic and messy and I’m here for it. Their interactions with each other and their improvised back-up plans were everything. I somehow didn’t expect the crows to become the comedic relief of the season but it honestly makes so much sense.
A couple episodes in I still didn’t get the Zoya hype (remember I haven’t read the books) but was a massive Genya fan. By the end of the season I was like “oh both of these girls are getting redemption arcs and I am here for it”.
Speaking of redemption I still don’t like Matthias. I’m sorry but I just don’t. I get that he is important to many and that they like his relationship with Nina, but I just don’t have the patience for him and feel like Nina can do better. I still want him to get a redemption... but maybe not through a romance with the grisha woman he repeatedly slutshames, is bigoted towards and chokes at least once (twice if that SoC scene from book 1 happens). That being said this is just how I see him, so feel what ever you feel about him and ship to your heart’s content!
Alina’s journey through this season made complete sense to me. It hurt to see certain things, but they were necessary in my eyes. Seeing her go from this essentially insecure but brave girl to a manipulated pawn to an even stronger and more self reliant girl in spite of everything was amazing. It did feel like a well-written hero’s journey and I’m looking forward to seeing where she goes next.
Apparently a lot of book-readers don’t like Mal (and I am not here to change anyone’s mind about that) but the Mal I saw on the show was amazing. I actually kind of wish we had seen more of who he was outside of his relationship to Alina (f.ex. other flashbacks than the meadow, maybe something about any of his missions while separated from Alina pre-show), but I also loved what we got of him with Alina. We still got to see a guy who was brave, stubborn, flirtatious, a bit judgemental but with a strong sense of humour, and a lot of loyalty (to Alina but also to his friends). I can hardly wait to see what’s next for him.
Milo the goat. Where do I even begin. Not only did we get that Jesper-scene, but their farewell actually became a Chekhov’s gun for Mal in 1.07? Milo is the true hero of the season.
Speaking of 1.07 I loved the tent scene between Alina and the Darkling. She both got to be realistic about her feelings for the Darkling and stand up for herself and for others and call him out. The way I interpret the Darkling, he is the kind of villain who creates a saviour narrative around himself but cares more about power than anything else. He’ll say he’s doing everything to protect his people but is the first to kill the very people he claims to love. And Alina’s tent-speech really hammered that in for me.
I adore Baghra. Is she morally dubious? Yes. Was she incredibly mean to Alina during training to the point where it might have been excessive? Yes. Did she not take any of the Darkling’s bullshit and act as the proper mentor for Alina when the Darkling had said that he was going to train her? Yes. Am I kind of a Baghra stan now? I mean maybe.
The antler-collar was so evil and gross but from a visually narrative stand point it was perfect.
Also I still have no idea who David is but I want redemption for him too. Honestly I feel like half the supporting cast is gearing up for redemption arcs next season and I am excited for most of them.
Nina’s reaction when she hears Kaz on the boat? Priceless. Actually the whole boat scene from when she goes up on deck again to the cut back to the fold was priceless.
That being said the final scene had me even more ready for season 2.
Jesper kind of gave me messy period-fantasy James Bond? Does that make sense?
And Mal kind of gave me Lois Lane energy? As in he’s the mortal love interest that many assume is the hero/heroine’s weakness but actually functions as their emotional strength and inspiration? Am I reaching here or am I getting somewhere?
Mikhael and Dubrov. What a duo. Absolute madlads.
Also I’d like to see more Nadia if that is possible? Because the few scenes we had of her had me intrigued but then she sort of disappeared? Is she going to be important or was she just more of a temporary supporting character?
I entered this show a casual Six of Crows fan with mild interest in Kanej and I finished this season a mess. A mess who ships Kanej and Malina and Genya with that David guy even though they had about 30 seconds of screentime together and Zoya with redemption and Jesper with main-character status (hey we’re not getting Wylan until season 2 at least) and kind of those two Ravkan army guys and Nina with anyone else and Matthias with a better redemption storyline and the Darkling with karma! Also, a mess with a whole new set of comfort characters!
#I don't even think I got all my thoughts out#this post is just getting too long#so if I have more I shall simply make more posts#I've lost count of how many times I wrote that I loved something#this isn't even my favourite show ever I just have a lot of thoughts and like sharing them#shadow and bone#six of crows spoilers#inej ghafa#kaz brekker#jesper fahey#alina starkov#malyen oretsev#mal oretsev#nina zenik#anti darkling#anti the darkling#anti matthias helvar#zoya nazyalensky#genya safin#david kostyk#alexei shadow and bone#shadow and bone spoilers#sab spoilers#baghra morozova#malina#alina x mal#kanej#inej x kaz#genya x david#the potato rants
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So, I have seen different people being fans of different female Villains/Anti-Villains in RWBY. Salem, Raven, Neo, Emerald. However? You are the first person I've come across who is a big Cinder Fall Fan. I was hoping you could tell us a bit about what makes Cinder Fall's traits stand out to you, what makes her seem relatable, and the complexities that interest you? Or could it be that's she's just super cool?
Let me first start off by saying that everyone is allowed to like or dislike any character for any reason, second I’m a bit surprised that I’m the first big Cinder fan you’ve come across on Tumblr. And if for whatever reason you don’t find my answer unsatisfactory, sometimes it’s difficult to explain why you like something.
As for why I like Cinder so much, it’s because she’s by far the most interesting villain in the series for me. Ever since V2 and V3, she was just more interesting than the villains we had at the time like Roman. Neo was interesting for a time, but after V3 she was never on screen again until V6. Anyway, what I’m getting at is that I found her to be very complex especially around V4 where we see her weaker and more vulnerable side. I also find it very interesting that a villain is getting as much attention as the main characters, most anime (or cartoon) series don’t focus on the villain unless they plan on redeeming them. However they chose to make her a better villain in the end. Even then, I consider her to be the main villain protagonist, like if we were watching RWBY from the dark side perspective Cinder would be the main protagonist.
Cinder’s just one of the most compelling and complex characters in RWBY and for some reason the other female villains like Salem, Raven, Neo, and (yes I’m counting you too) Emerald just don’t do it for me. Salem is good, but she’s a very inactive villain, I completely understand why because the characters aren’t strong enough to last 2 seconds against her. Raven never shows up. Neo isn’t bad, but just isn’t relevant to the story. And Emerald, well I like her but I have a feeling she’s going to lose everything I liked about her before her redemption (and I really wish the fandom would stop treating her like she’s a perfect angel who never did anything wrong in her life ever). With Cinder, she feels like the perfect antagonist for the main characters.
As for how I find her relatable, I feel everything Cinder is going through. You want something but constantly getting denied because you’re “not good enough”, or failing constantly. Now obviously I don’t take advantage of my allies nor do I want to kill people (lol), but I see an actual complex character and not someone who wants power for power’s sake.
Also part of me just enjoys liking a character that a lot of people tend to write off. Maybe I just hate conforming to popular opinions, but I have always found enjoyment from Cinder as a character. I really don’t know how anyone can label her the worst character in RWBY. It often feels like people either don’t care to analyze her like I do.
Lastly, I’m just interested to see where her character arc goes from here, compared to the other characters hers is the most exciting because it can go anywhere. In a meta sense, she’s not confined to a ridged path where we know for sure where her story is going to go. Will it lead to redemption? Will she leave Salem? Or will she stay evil and probably die in the process? We don’t know that. You can make that argument for Neo, but I think whatever happens to Cinder, it will have a major impact on the story and I think death is the most boring and uninteresting route to take.
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Why the ATLA comics fail when it comes to Zuko and his family
To whom ever took their time to actually stop and read this post, thank you in advance for not skipping my post and willing to stay and read my humble opinion! I hope I won’t disappoint you!
As a relatively newcomer to the ATLA fanbase since 2020, I’ve come across a lot of interesting debates, comments and rants about the show, characters and fandom in general, but nothing has captivated me as much as the dumpster-on-fire that are the ATLA comics, more specifically: The Promise and The Search.
On one hand we have the hardcore fans who want them to be animated or serialized into the Netflix live action, praising the comics for the new views and subject matters they’ve brought into the show’s lore, while on the other hand we have the furious Azula fandom who is really angry for the fact that best girl didn’t get the redemption arc she rightfully deserved so much after the painful event that was the Last Agni Kai and the even more angry fans of the Urzai ship (yeah, the people who actually ship Zuko’s parents unironically) who hated the retconning of the show’s cannon since the comics basically took a huge fat dump on what was previously established as official cannon, when the Search entered the scene, but between these two sides, who has the more valid point? In the end, are the comics good cannon or bad written fanfiction?
Well... Here are my two cents on this matter since I myself happen to be an Azula and Zuko fan and had huge expectations from these comics (since I wanted more from my fave hot-headed fiery siblings duo) but ended up disappointed: the comics are indeed a huge mess and actually bad written fanfiction when it comes to Zuko and his family! Don’t click off yet, because I actually documented the reasons why exactly the comics fail in this area:
1. The author of these comics is not part of the BryKe duo
Yes, I would like to start with the fact that if you actually take a second to look up who in the heck took the time to write these two books, you won’t find Bryan, nor Mike, but a fellow man named Gene Yang. This is important because while the wiki of both The Promise and The Search state BryKe as the creators, that doesn’t mean that they were the actual minds behind these comics, but rather because ATLA is their “baby” and these comics involve their characters, over which they have copyright. Mr. Yang here is the actual brain behind the plot, as the main writer, which explains why we find huuuuge inconsistencies between the show lore and the comics, especially Zuko wise.
My main issue with Mr. Yang isn’t that he isn’t BryKe specifically, but because he did an unforgivable mistake in his writing process: He projected himself into Zuko’s character, based on the relationship Zuko had with his father. This is a documented fact from an interview in which he explains that he sees himself and his dad’s relationship into Zuko and Ozai and used that when writing their interactions and built Zuko’s character in the comics. And this is wrong because when you have an already very developed and complex character such as Zuko, you can’t just come in and be like “Oh, I was an angsty teen just like him in my teenage years, fighting with my dad and whatnot, so he must have the same thought process as me!”. NO! This is bad fanfiction writer behavior! Zuko has his own personality and philosophy, which he developed over the course of 3 seasons and is not defined by only 1 unfortunate aspect of his past, so you can’t just base his whole mindset and actions off of your own personal experience just because you had the same daddy issues he had!
2. The whole “Promise that you will kill me if I turn out like my dad!” nonsense in The Promise
Reason number 2 why these comics fail and go under the category of “bad fanfiction” is because they fail to convey the core essence of the source material. The whole point of Zuko’s redemption was that he realized the wrongdoings of his ancestors and his own mistakes. He outgrew his desire of gaining his father’s acknowledgement in favor of choosing his own destiny. Having him worry that he’ll turn into his father is utter nonsense and feels like poor angsty drama material for the sake of angst. At this point in time, Zuko has overcame that obstacle in his life a long time ago and should be at the level where he himself is the “Uncle Iroh” for other people and in no way someone concerned of becoming their own worst enemy!
Not only that, but the whole point of Aang’s journey and the story of the show as a whole was to teach us, the viewers, the importance of forgiveness, empathy and love in life. Aang didn’t spare Ozai, aka “the ultimate evil” just to flex in front of his pals or because he is a “ 12 y/o vegan pacifist monk kid”, but because he knew that killing someone, no matter of what they did or wanted to do, wouldn’t restore balance into the Universe, on the contrary, him killing the villain would have meant perpetuating the “endless cycle of hate” that plagued the world. So having Aang promise to kill his best friend in case “they turned into an evil maniac like their dad” contradicts Aang’s whole character and it’s a nonsense that throws into the trash what we’ve learnt throughout the entire TV series.
3. Azula deserved (and was supposed) to have a redemption ark
This might still be pure speculation, but I count it as a documented reason because I’ve heard quite a few people saying that there should’ve been a book 4 in the show, aka “Book 4: Air”, and no, it wasn’t The Search, but actually Zuko and Azula’s journey as Zuko helps his younger sister heal her broken mind by being her very own “Uncle Iroh”. Sure, they prolly were going to end up looking for Ursa, but the journey should’ve ended with them actually being happy and a family again and not the bs we got in The Search where a still very unstable Azula runs away and becomes the “Next Joker”! The only problem is that M. Night had to pop up and curse the world with his movie, which forced BryKe to delay the project (and eventually abandoned it in favor of Korra).
All in all, either if BryKe had this preplanned or not, it made sense for Azula to get a redemption ark, she deserved it because she was just a broken 14 y/o child! If Katara’s mom’s murderer deserved to be forgiven, so did this poor child who had no fault for what happened to her since she had a dysfunctional family! What Gene Yang did in his poorly written fanfiction was to just antagonize a broken child, turning her into a monster for the sake of friggin angst!
4. The Search is the worst of the two, being flat af character wise
And finally, getting to the point that I personally find the most annoying about these comics: The Search. This one... This one is a mess on a hella lot many levels, and just to list a few: characters are flat as fudge, being either black as vanta black (like Ozai and Azula) or pure white like Gene’s Gary Stue OC, Mr Ikem (or how I like to call him, IKEA man) and his ‘victim’ rendition of Ursa, Azula gets to suffer more for no reason (see reason number 3 to why I find this as a no no), Ursa’s whole character sucks ass (man, I could write a whole thesis on why Yang’s version of her is terrible and doesn’t match the strong woman we got in the show) and Zuko does morally wrong stuff (my man literally used his unstable sister to bribe their dad into spitting info about Ursa... Show Zuko would never do that!;-;)
Oh boy, as a person who’s seen a ton of anime and other media and read many books, I can’t begin on how much I despise this type of writing: flat characters are the worst!
ATLA characters in the show are nothing close to being flat! What I mean by that is that none of them fall perfectly into pure white (aka goodest of good characters with no imperfections) or vanta black (aka lowest and darkest twisted monsters out there), each of them are various shades of grey (like Aang who is a very light grey because despite being a very kind and nice character, he still isn’t a “perfect hero” since he ran away from his duties, practiced tax fraud with Toph, had insecurities and even threatened to kill people on ocassions like with the sand benders who took Appa) and this is a good choice because that prevents them from becoming what’s globally known as Mary Sues and Gary Stues (aka those either “perfect” characters with no flaws and/or unlimited power, or the twisted monsters full of flaws).
And the other reason why many other people hate The Search: it literally negates previously established cannon. And here comes my short essay on why this comic fails Zuko’s family (since we’ve already talked enough about Zuko himself).
In cannon and even interviews with BryKe, it was clearly stated that Zuko’s family was “once happy”. Where is this “once happy” family in The Search? All I see is pain, deception, lies and betrayal, nothing close to anything that resembles happiness. Okay, some of you might come in and say that “It’s because it was never the case! It was only lies and Zuko trying to convince himself that he didn’t live in hell forever!” and here is WHERE YOU WERE ALL WRONG! And why? Because, my dear fella, where were depicted the flashbacks of Zuko’s “happy family” in The Beach? Ember Island. And what do we know and had been even quoted in the show? "Like waves washing away the footprints on the sand, Ember Island gives everyone a clean slate. Ember Island reveals the true you." (direct quote from the show). Exactly, no matter who you are or how hard you try, you can’t hide your true self when you are on the Ember Island, best example being Azula, who’s impenetrable though shell cracked and revealed the true vulnerable child that was underneath. If Azula couldn’t resist the “spell of the island”, no one can. So this means that Zuko’s family was indeed happy once and yes, Ozai wasn’t always the douchebag we got to know in Season 3 (I have a whole nother essay on my theories regarding what could be his real past story and why he’s actually the “Zuko” of his generation, based on stuff I gathered from old wiki entries and character analyses I made, but that’s for another time, lemme know if ya’ll are interested).
And what I guess is the biggest proof why The Search did this family’s past trash is comics Ursa herself. My dude, if this woman were indeed the victim of years of endless abuse and never loved her husband, I guarantee you that she would’ve been closer to what we saw in Todoroki’s mom from BNHA and Zuko would’ve gotten that scar or even worse long before the Agni Kai, not from his “daddy dearest”, but from “mommy dearest” herself, because no sane woman would be soo affectionate and attached to a child that’s the perfect copy of their abuser, sepecially appearance wise (again see Todoroki’s mom’s case from BNHA because the stories are really similar) and in no way would’ve she been willing to sacrifice her life for said child’s sake. With this ocassion, I remind ya’ll folks that according to the ancient ATLA cannon wikis on Nick’s site, Ozai was designed with Zuko’s appearance in mind, being meant to be like a “grown up scarless version” of Zuko. So yeah, remember this with a grain of salt that whenever you simp over grown up Zuko, you involuntary simp for Ozai too.
So yeah, I guess this kinda concludes my “not so short” rant about why the comics fail and are bad fanfiction. Lemme hear your thoughts in the comments and if you agree, feel free to leave a like and even reblog.
Bye bye and remember that Momo is the true strongest character of the show!
Saby out.
#atla#avatar the last airbender#atla comics#zuko#azula#ozai#ursa#fire siblings#the promise#the search#atla rant
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I could line my wall with all the posts Thomas has made about Chloe tonight. (around 50, by my count)
If you wanna read them, don’t bother.
I certainly won’t be sharing any of them
What would be the point?
Because basically, they amount to one thing...
Chloe is bad, and we’re bad people for liking her.
That’s it.
And for anyone thinking that he kids around a lot with his comments...
I’m pretty sure this is something he feels VERY strongly about.
Or he wouldn’t expand so much energy in constantly talking her down.
So no, I don’t think we’re going to get a Chloe redemption.
No, I don’t think she’ll be Queen Bee again.
No, I can’t see any real change in her behavior.
She’ll just remain the same ol’ hatable Chloe, the ‘evil’ girl that young kids apparently ‘get’ that adults don’t understand...
Yep, apparently we’re ‘dumb’ for wanting her to improve and develop!
To provide a good example for bullies out there that they can be more than just abusers all their lives!
Children couldn’t possibly grasp the delicate subtleties of self-improvement as you grow up!
It’s all so clear now!
Stupid us!
Also, her merchandise doesn’t sell very well.
Another good case for her staying as a villain, I guess.
And she’s compared to a monster and a domestic abuser.
This damaged teenage girl.
Yeah, sounds about right.
And all those tender moments where she showed empathy and love were just ‘fake outs’ all along.
Makes total sense!
And anyone who wanted more from her is just ‘delusional’ and is ‘writing the show in their head’.
Exactly!
Except...
That’s not the way it seemed on screen at all.
When she hugged Miss Bustier
Or had a heart-to-heart with Ladybug
When she risked her life as Queen Bee
Showed genuine concern for Adrien
When she finally appreciated Jean-something
And shared moments of friendship with Sabrina
These did NOT come across as part of an elaborate plot twist
From a show which isn’t exactly known for its complex writing.
They seemed to form part of a ladder...
Which would inevitably climb to a true character shift.
Where this flawed teenage girl could take a long, hard look at her life.
And realize she didn’t HAVE to be like her awful mother.
Or as power-hungry as her father.
She could learn lessons from her favorite superhero Ladybug...
Become a better person...
And an even greater superhero.
She could still keep her sassy attitude.
Just be a bit kinder and selfless, that’s all.
But, nope.
EVERY bit of niceness we witnessed on screen...
None of it was real.
It was all influenced by ‘class’.
Even her childhood friendship with Adrien was nothing.
If he was as poor as the rest of his classmates, she would’ve bullied him too.
Straight from Thomas’s own mouth.
One of the best relationships in the show, gone just. Like. THAT.
He also said to ‘redeem’ her at this stage would be too ‘unconvincing’?
ORLY?
I hate to return to critical mode...
But the show ain’t exactly known for its consistent writing.
One minute Marinette is confident around Adrien...
Next she’s a nervous jumble of words.
It sets up two new ships for Mari and Adrien with great fanfare...
Only to ditch them both two eps later.
(Also, what the **** did they plan to do with Lila?!)
In other words, this isn’t a show that plays the long game
Whether this is to satisfy the networks’ demand to air the eps out of order idk.
The point is that trying to tell us that Chloe’s ‘arc’ was some grand scheme...
Where she’d have a few sympathetic moments only to emerge worst than ever afterwards....
I simply don’t believe it.
Either this is terrible, amateurish writing of the worst kind...
Or Thomas flexed his influence behind the scenes...
And put an abrupt end to Chloe’s development before it really got started.
It doesn’t really matter which reason I guess.
What DOES matter is this petty and spiteful man sees fit to bash her in around 70% of his online interactions right now.
He could just ignore the posts but nope, he goes right in there, full throttle.
You can just tell how smart he is with his intimate psychological breakdowns of why Chloe is the way she is...
When we all know the actual reason... he just couldn’t be bothered.
Far better to create a whole new character, give her none of the depths that could make a developed Chloe such a pain to write...
And then 'reward’ her with the position of Queen Bee, for being super-sweet and as shallow as a puddle.
And oops, make her Chloe’s half-sister or whatever to further rub salt in Chloe stans’ wounds.
Is the show even gonna tackle the angst that would arise from Mayor Andre discovering his beloved wife had an affair?
Or Chloe discovering her much-loved mother is in fact a cheat?
What about coping with the SHOCK revelation that she... GASP... has a long-lost sister?
Forget it. All that rich potential for human emotions sounds B O R I N G.
Don’t forget that if there’s a major event in this show that doesn’t include the words ‘Love Square’, the makers just don’t care.
Let’s cut straight to a giant golden Zoe (who now looks like a giant golden Chloe) trying to smoosh her now much smaller sister...
While Chloe pushes Marinette and her parents towards the beast to save herself.
Because of course she does.
Never misses a trick to make Chloe look bad, does Thomas.
It’s a skill you can tell he’s very proud of.
Anyway, back to Zoe...
Despite my harsh words above, I harbor no ill-will towards you.
Your design is decent and you seem like a stand-up gal.
But I hate to say this...
You shouldn’t exist.
It was completely unnecessary from a storytelling POV to create a sibling for Chloe, and your mere presence will diminish the show.
I can say this with utmost confidence after looking at the situation from every conceivable angle...
Without even needing to watch your eps or know why you were created.
(Although, I have a pretty good idea)
Some people might say WELL GIVE HER A CHANCE!!!!
Hmm... no.
Everything the show needs to be successful with Chloe’s character...
It’s already right there.
She does not need a secret sibling
She does not require a sweeter counterpart
And she definitely DOESN’T need Thomas constantly bashing her to impressionable fans online like she’s the Antichrist personified!
Seriously dude, if you hate her so much why bother creating her?
And if you hate her so much... why spend so long talking about her?
Despite his repeated denials, I think something another user here said is very true...
She DOES live ‘rent free’ in his head.
It sickens him that, despite his best efforts, she still has so many fans.
Not to worry, Thomas.
From what I see, there are still plenty of sycophants who agree with everything you say (even if they actually don’t)
After all, it’s enough for some to get a reply from the ‘great man’ himself
Why jeopardize that by trying to engage with him in a meaningful debate?
Especially when we know how handsy he is with the ‘block’ button.
Anyway, this went on for about a thousand more words than I meant it to.
I guess me and Thomas have just ONE thing in common (Thank God)
This is a topic which we both feel VERY strongly about.
The differently is of course, I have far less power in the process, and preach to a much smaller audience.
Still, I won’t let that stop me ranting away like a loon.
Hey, if it’s good enough for him... ;)
#miraculous ladybug#chloe bourgeois#Marinette Dupain-Cheng#adrien agreste#ml salt#ml rants#lila rossi
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