#batman secret origins 1986

[just-an-enby-lemon]

Yes. You are weird. And I love you soooo much for it.

[laufire]

march reading meme!

BOOKS

A Study in Scarlet by Arthur Conan Doyle. Letters from Watson sent this from January to March, alongside a couple of other shorts ("The Field Bazaar" and "The Man with the Watches"). An interesting thing about it is that Sherlock was portrayed as somewhat bitter on the issue of credit (he does all the work, subpar investigators take underserved glory), while he's usually, in both ACD's later works and adaptations, portrayed as ~above such feelings. "The Field Bazaar" was interesting in that, in describing why Watson is a good "foil" for Sherlock's smarts in the books, actually illuminates why I think the smart investigator/fumbling idiot dynamic just. Fucking sucks for me lol. I don't get a kick out of it, I much prefer when they pair two investigator of different talents and portray those as both interesting and helpful in their investigations.

Investigating Lois Lane: The Turbulent History of the Daily Planet's Ace Reporter by Tim Hanley. Amazing read. It takes you through the history of the character, often looking at it through the lense of real-life issues and movements, getting into the different eras, adaptations, etc. It's giving me a lot to think about, both within the dc fandom and outside it.

Divine Comedy by Dante Alighieri. This one I also read in substack newsletters, going for about a year, the last one being sent in March. It was a reread, and I maintain it's a book everyone should at least try to read. Inferno is by far my favourite part (the theology lessons in Paradise grate on me, in comparison).

Batman: The Ultimate Evil by Andrew Vachss. This book was written by a crime fiction author and attorney that specialices in representing children and in child abuse cases, who was approached by DC to write a book featuring Batman facing child sex trafficking. In the book, Bruce ends up discovering that his mother, Martha Wayne, was a sociologist who was investigating a child molester ring, and that's what caused their deaths. That's what caught my eye first, because really, how many canons give any weight and importance to Martha? If they opt to make the Wayne murders a conspiracy, it's always about Thomas's actions. I also appreciated that, even though the author clearly had to follow some dc-mandated lines (fictional country, individual villain), he practically hits you with a hammer when it comes to dispel a lot of the myths we have about child molesters and how they operate, specifically to challenge those dc-mandated lines. I wish we'd seen more of the social worker character, but I liked her as it was.

Snow Country by Yasunari Kawabata. I picked this novella exclusively for vibes and not plot, and it's what it gave me. It's also made me think a lot about how men see women, and how through their eyes our selves are twisted. Komako and Yoko are fascinating characters in part for how inescrutable the male lead finds them and how he might be misunderstanding them. There's so, so much hinted under the surface, about their persons and about their relationship.

The Lady Astronaut of Mars by Mary Robinette Kowal. Short novelette I picked on a whim. A 60+ yo astronaut is offered a chance to travel to space again, her dream come true. She has to choose between taking it, or staying with her ailing husband, who has little time left. The story apparently later expanded on some novels/prequels, I might pick them up.

COMICS

Secret Origins 80-Page Giant. I picked this one up for Steph's story (I'm going through her comic arcs), but ended up reading all the others. It's cemented my desire to pick up the Young Justice comics. These teens are sooooo chaotic and fun lmao, all of them (back then) with such weird and interesting backstories.

Lois Lane (1986). A two-part issue that shows Lois getting in deep in an investigation about child abductions. It's gets gruesome and heavy at times, but it's a great read, specially for her character. It shows Lois at a moment that the mainline comics seem to have ignored (she missed out on a great professional opportunity due to Superman), and it shows how obsessive she gets and how that is what makes her a great investigator and reporter. I also liked the glimpse at the dynamic between her and her sister Lucy there, how dismissive Lois was of Lucy's stewardess' job, for example.

DC First: Batgirl/Joker. I don't like it as much as the early-Batgirl (2000) run but it's kind of on that vein. Barbara tells Cass about her first encounter with the Joker, and Cass is determined to prove herself against him. I loved the art as well (very different than in the cover).

[vechter]

jla/titans (1998) #3 // the kids aren't alright, fall out boy // new teen titans (1984) #19 // tales of the teen titans (1984) #59 // outsiders (2003) #16 // outsiders (2003) #1 // stand by me (1986) // titans/young justice: graduation day (2003) #3 // unknown // dc special: the return of donna troy (2005) #2 // titans (1999) #1 // nightwing (2016) #90 // titans (2016) #15 // ivy, frank ocean // teen titans (1996) #12 // titans (2008) #15 // batman chronicles (1995) #7 // outsiders (2003) #11 // a working list of things i will never tell you, jon sands // flash (1987) #210 // flash (1987) #214 // nightwing secret files and origins (1999) #1 // the firm, john grisham // jla/titans (1998) #3

dick + core titans (donna, garth, roy, wally)

[zahri-melitor]

The Candlelight Oath:

For reference I am collating every occasion I can think of that the candle oath comes up, particularly in terms of the wording of it. I know I'm skipping over some but I'm also restricted in terms of how many images I can have.

"-And swear that we two will fight together against crime and corruption and never to swerve from the path of righteousness!" "I swear it!"

(Detective Comics #38)

"Swear that you will fight against crime and corruption...and never swerve from the path of right!" "I swear it!"

(Batman #213)

"If you're to be my partner, you must swear you'll avenge their deaths by devoting your life to warring on all criminals!"

(Detective Comics #484)

"Swear that you will fight against crime and corruption -- and never swerve from the path of justice!" "I swear it!"

(Untold Legend of Batman #2)

"--I knew I wanted to be exactly like him: a sworn avenger in the cause of justice!"

(Secret Origins #13 1986)

"Batman and Robin." I made a promise to my parents that I would rid the city of the evil that took their lives. That remains unchanged. Only now...I am no longer alone.

(Batman: Dark Victory #13)

"Think, Bruce, you remember--'to fight against crime and corruption, and never swerve from the path of justice...?'"

(Batman: Gotham Knights #11)

"But then I took an oath. To carry on in my parents' memory and the legacy Batman had created. From that light I watched our world grow..."

(Dark Crisis #1)

"This is the beginning of a new life, son. Of service to others. Of helping." "I--I am...I vow to help...to make the world a better place. And I swear that I will fight against crime and corruption...and never swerve from--" "The path of righteousness."

(Batman #138 2016)

I love the words. I love the echoes and repeats and the patterns of what people use and where they focus their attention.

Also I die over Zdarsky's version actually, it's one of the best of all, especially as it has Dick saying the words himself, rather than swearing to affirm Bruce's words.

Some of the early ones are so very heavy with exposition: Detective Comics #484 is hilarious in terms of going"'your parents died! as did mine! Let's swear to fight crime to avenge their deaths!" Good job there, Bruce. That's the level of subtle also heavily noted in the time you asked Tim if you could adopt him and started with "your parents are dead. You have no one."

It's interesting in terms of its placement, because the oath almost always comes when Bruce first takes Dick back to the Cave as Batman, and reveals his identity. Before Robin. Before Dick begins training. During the hunt for Zucco.

But it's so important to both Bruce and Dick, and echoes for both of them. It's a password that they use. And Dick's memorised it, as if he's said it many times in remembrance of the first occasion.

[celaenaeiln]

What are you favorite things about Dickkory?

Please and Thank You☺️

SO. MANY. THINGS!!!

Where do I start?!

Their freedom

Their dedication

Their dynamic

Ok so my favorite thing - well one of three favorite things - about Dick and Kory is that they just let each other be who they are.

What I mean is Dick never tells Kori she has to look a certain way, act a certain way, or talk a certain way. Obviously he's going to stop her from killing people but he loves her for who she is.

Secret Origins (1986) Issue #13

This means the WORLD to me because EVERYONE loves Kori for her body canonically. Like every single guy is just so turned on by her looks but for Dick that doesn't matter. He loves her wholely and purely. I'm tearing up a little by how much respect he gives her.

The New Titans (1988) Issue #71

You have no idea how happy his words make me. He never ever EVER blames Kori for the way she dresses or restricts her in any fashion. He's always extremely supportive of her. If she wants to do modeling? He's all for it. If she wants to go dancing? He's right there with her. She wants to try something new? He's helping her. He is SUCH a supportive boyfriend in everything she does. The killing is still off-limits ofcourse but everything else he loves her so much. He loves her for who she is not how she looks.

The New Titans (1988) Issue #71

He NEVER puts her down. And she never puts him down. They're supportive. And this I can appreciate even more because some of Dick's other love interests have it out for him. They get some type of power play about digging open his insecurities and throwing his faults in his face but not her. He's aware of his own faults, he doesn't need that to be used as a weapon against him like some more modern love interests do. Kori's understanding and loving and in response to that Dick treats her like a queen.

That's the first reason. The second reason is they help each other.

Dick can be difficult to deal with because he locks his emotions away. When he feels stressed he isolates himself because he doesn't want to talk to anyone about how he's feeling. But Kori? She doesn't resent him for that. She actually patiently tries to get him to open up. She's understanding and loving of him and his situation. I love them because when things get hard they don't just abandon each other, move on, and then get back together again after they've solved their own problems alone - no. They work hard to work through it together.

The New Teen Titans (1980) Issue #28

Dick and Kori come from vastly different cultures and have different beliefs so this causes problems. Here Dick's contemplating settling down with Kori because of how she kills people.

The New Teen Titans (1984) Issue #13

But in the face of it all, losing her is imporant to him that their difference in values

The New Teen Titans (1984) Issue #14

The New Teen Titans (1984) Issue #15

The thing about Dick and Kori having problems is that it's inspiring. Like you see all the troubles they faced, all the hardships, differences, and difficulties they went and it's amazing. Because Dick and Kori come from two different world. Literally. But they worked hard on their relationship. They worked through their differences because they loved each other so much that they wanted to stay together.

We could've have Dick and Kory forever if the real life Batman office writers hadn't broken off their wedding because they wanted to take Dick away from the Titans and give him to Batman. Do you realize what this means? If DC writers Dick hadn't been ripped away and Kori hadn't been disparaged by them, we would STILL be reading about Dick and Kory now. They would've been married and had kids by now.

But that brings me to my point - their love is amazing because they worked on the things that were different. It's awe-inspiring to love someone so much that you'll stay with them through anything.

Dickkory is my number one romantic pair for this reason. The problems that Dick has faced in his subsequent relationships is NOTHING compared to what he worked through with Kori. Which is why it frustrates me when a love interest abandons him at first stirrings of trouble because "hello? what you're getting now is cleaned up dick grayson. This is like playing a game on easy mode and still failing. If you can't be there for him when he has his act together, how could you ever be there for him when he's truly struggling?"

Going back to the scene at hand, Dick still stays with Kori but Kori is forced to marry another man at her father's orders and this is what breaks them apart. Because Kori is married to Ryand'r and Dick loves her. But despite this?

The New Teen Titans (1984) Issue #32

For Dick on the other hand it takes a case for him to understand -

The New Teen Titans (1984) Issue #34

But he gets it.

The New Teen Titans (1984) Issue #34

They come back stronger than ever.

Their love is the greatest romance of the ages for this reason. Your partner is your confidant. When the whole world turns against you, YOU need to be there by their side and they need to stand by you through everything. If you suddenly go from being rich to dirt poor, your parents abandon you, your friends betray you - the greatest love is standing with your partner through everything.

And Dick loves Kori for this too

Tales of the Teen Titans Issue #44

And that's what they embody and that's why I respect them.

Their relationship isn't a shattered vase glued together, their relationship is a muscle growth. You exercise, you stress the muscle and tear it. It causes you pain but that tear heals and the result is a stronger muscle and a healtier and fitter body. They're just so great.

So the second reason was their dedication to each other. The third reason is I love their dynamic!!

Kori is aggressive and strong but loving where as Dick is softer and strong but loving. It's like a girlboss and powerful malewife dynamic. Dick is phsycially shorter and smaller than Kori and Kori taller than him. They way she carries him around and touches him and holds him?!

The New Teen Titans (1984) Issue #15

The way that Dick gets so jealous and tries to show off for Kori only for his mount to slip off the cliff is so cute!! To everyone Dick is this cool, sexy, intelligent, perfect figure. The only time he gets childlishly jealous and reckless is when he's with Kori. And then having Kori bridal carry him after his mistake is just priceless.

But Dick doesn't begrudge Kori for this. What I love about Dick loving Kori is that he loves her for her power.

The Flash (1987) Issue #81

Dick thirsting for people who can pick him up and throw him around will always be my favorite part of him.

"I love that in a woman."

Yeah, Dick, we can hear that loud and clear. See it too.

LIKE LOOK AT THIS!!!-

Dark Knights of Steel Issue #7

With Kori there's no hesitation to give Dick affirmation.

Tales of the Teen Titans Issue #50

The New Teen Titans (1980) Issue #2

Tales of the Teen Titans Issue #49

Everyone in the entirety of DC knows that Dick is exceedingly pretty. Even villains regularly call him out on it. But it's SO nice to hear his girlfriend tell him that in such an honest and nice non-sleezy way. And that's my probably most favorite thing about them. This girlboss/malewife dynamic they have going on. They're equals but it's not the usual dynamic where the guy showers the girl with compliments and she's satisfied back. She tells him of her own volition how much she loves him and how beautiful he looks. She carries him around and is aggressive in their love. And I just love that so much.

Their love overall is just off the charts.

The New Teen Titans (1984) Issue #39

The New Teen Titans (1980) Issue #38

Teen Titans Spotlight (1988) Issue #19

The New Teen Titans (1984) Issue #10

[nightmareinfloral]

Jericho- Where to Read?

Joseph William Wilson (Jericho) is the youngest son of Slade Wilson (Deathstroke) and Adeline Kane. Beneath the cut is a complete list of Joey’s major appearances updated as of January 2024. Most important issues are in bold.

The 1980s:

Tales of the Teen Titans (1984) 42-44, Annual 3, 45-48, 50-52, 56-57, 58

The New Teen Titans (1984) 1-2, 3-5

Crisis on infinite Earths (1985) 3-5, 9, 11

Who’s Who: The Definitive Directory of the DC Universe (1985) 11

The New Teen Titans (1984) 6-10, Annual 1, 11-13, 14-15

The Omega Men (1983) 34-35

The New Teen Titans (1984) 16-17, 18, 22, 24-31

Action Comics (1938) 584

Teen Titans Spotlight (1986) 3-6

Secret Origins (1986) 13

History of the DC Universe (1986) 2

The New Teen Titans (1984) 33-34

Blue Beetle (1986) 11-14

The New Teen Titans (1984) 35-37, Annual 3, 39-49, Annual 4

The New Titans (1988) 50-55

Secret Origins (1986) Annual 3

The New Titans (1988) Annual 5, 57-59

Batman (1940) 440

The New Titans (1988) 60-61

Secret Origins (1986) 46

The New Titans (1988) 62-63

The 1990s:

The New Titans (1988) 64-67

Hawk & Dove (1989) 11-12

The New Titans (1988) 68-69

Who’s Who in the DC Universe (1990) 1

The New Titans (1988) Annual 6

Wonder Woman (1987) 47, 49

The New Titans (1988) 71, 75-79, Annual 7, 80-85. 86

Deathstroke the Terminator (1991) 1-7, 9, 11, Annual 1

Showcase ‘93 (1993) 2

Batman Shadow of the Bat (1992) 34

Deathstroke (1991) 48

JLA/Titans (1998) 1

Nightwing Secret Files and Origins (1999) 1

The Titans (1999) 10

The 2000s:

The Titans (1999) 25, 46

Teen Titans (2003) 2

Batman Gotham Knights (2000) 44

Teen Titans (2003) 3-5, 7-8

Avengers/JLA (2003) 4

Teen Titans (2003) 9, 11-12, 21

Nightwing (1995) 106

DC Special The Return of Donna Troy (2005) 1

Teen Titans/Outsiders Secret Files and Origins (2005) 1

Teen Titans (2003) 33, 39-47, 52

Countdown to Final Crisis (2007) 36

DC Universe: Last Will and Testament (2008) 1

DC Universe Decisions (2008) 3-4

Titans (2008) 6-12

Teen Titans (2003) Annual 1, 69

Vigilante (2008) 5

Teen Titans (2003) 70

Titans (2008) 13

Vigilante (2008) 6

Teen Titans (2003) 77-78

The 2010s:

DC Universe Legacies (2010) 5

Titans (2008) 37-38, Annual 1

Deathstroke (2011) 0, 13, 19-20

New Teen Titans: Games (2011)

Deathstroke (2014) 2-6, 17-20

Convergence New Teen Titans (2015) 1-2

Deathstroke: Rebirth (2016) 1

Deathstroke (2016) 1-3, 6-10, 12-16, 18

Teen Titans (2016) 8

Deathstroke (2016) 19

Teen Titans The Lazarus Contract Special (2017) 1

Deathstroke (2016) 20-25

DC Holiday Special (2017) 1

Deathstroke (2016) 26-27, Annual 1, 28 -32, 34-50

The 2020s:

Dark Knights: Death Metal: The Last Stories of the DC Universe (2020) 1

Batman Black and White (2020) 5

Deathstroke Inc. (2021) 1, 5, 7

Future State Gotham (2021) 12

Tales of the Titans (2023) 2

Thank you to @jerichogender for helping me compile!

[havendance]

Year One vs Zero Year: A Tale of Two Batmen

(You can also read this on AO3 if you want)

In the introduction to the Batman: Year One collected edition, Dennis O’Neil writes about the impetus behind the post-crisis reboot—things had become dated and it was time to revamp their most iconic characters: Superman, Wonder Woman, and Batman. “The writers assigned to the task had quick and clear ideas about how to update Superman and Wonder Woman, but Batman was a problem. He was fine just as he was.” Batman: Year One was not a story that was trying to reinvent Batman, it was a story that was trying to distill him, to revisit and retell his origin for a new era of DC storytelling. Whatever you may think of Frank Miller, he and David Mazzucchelli certainly succeeded with that goal.

While I don’t have a nice clear editorial quote like that for Batman: Zero Year, it’s clear that Synder was trying to do the same with the story. Zero Year is a Batman origin for the new era of storytelling that was the New 52. It has its nods to Miller—it has to, simply existing after Year One’s influential rewrite of Bruce’s origin—but it owes far more to the Batman of the golden age in it's story beats. It is not just Batman: Year One for the New 52, it is the Batman origin of the post-flashpoint comics, it's art and storytelling reflecting this Batman of a new era.

Batman’s origin has always been consistent in its strokes: Bruce Wayne’s parents are killed by a mugger. Devastated, the young boy swears to devote his life to justice. He trains both body and mind, until finally ready to begin, a bat flies through the window, and he takes it as an sign that he should become Batman—a creature that strikes fear in the hearts of criminals. It can be summarized in a page or two to get the audience up to speed.

(Batman’s Origin as told in Batman #47)

Neither Year One nor Zero Year change any of the fundamental pieces, but the narratives that surround them are vastly different. Year One seeks to tell a Batman origin grounded in reality as much as it can. In an afterward by David Mazzuchelli in the Batman: Year One collected edition he writes that “with year one, we sought to craft a credible Batman, grounded in a world we recognize”. The main enemy that Bruce Wayne faces is corruption: in the police and in the leading families of Gotham. Beside Gordon and Alfred, the other members of the Batman mythos that are present are Selina Kyle, just beginning to put on the catsuit and Harvey Dent prior to becoming Two Face, both of them surrounded by plausibility and grit. The Joker gets a single name drop at the end. It takes up four issues and covers the span of a year, covering the emergence of Batman’s mission

In contrast, Zero Year is bombastic. It’s a story full of bright colors and fantastic events: explosions, blimp chases, and Gotham city cut off and run as the Riddler’s personal fiefdom. It’s longer—spanning 10 issues—and covers a significantly shorter period of time. In it, Batman faces the Joker, The Riddler, and a bone-mutated mad scientist foe who’s name I don’t remember. Pamela Isley and the Penguin are alluded to as well. The giant penny plays a role in the plot. It calls back to many pieces of golden age lore, such as Bruce’s Uncle Philip Kane, and his love interest Julie Madison. (For a more modern retelling of the golden age Batman’s origin, see Secret Origins (1986) #6)

(The Batman: Year One and Batman: Zero Year trades. Please also note that the Year One trade contains at least an extra issue’s worth of bonus content at the end, where the Zero Year trade only has some variant covers)

There is also a difference in attitude between the two origins. Year One is a comic that is trying to escape the bounds of genre; Zero Year is a comic that revels in it. Part of it is the tone—Year One is setting itself in contrast to the Batman of the past in its commitment to realism rather than melodrama. Part of it is the art. In terms of color, the original printing of Year One and Zero Year are very similar. In Year One, this is because of technical limitations. There are only so many colors, most of them bright, and still Richmond Lewis works to create a strong sense of atmosphere to highlight the noir-type story that is being told. Zero Year uses these colors as a deliberate homage to comics of the past. It’s filled with bright pinks, blues, yellows, and greens set in contrast to each other. It’s beautiful. It’s also a clear stylistic choice.

Richmond redid the colors of Year One for later reprintings. While beautiful, they are far more subdued and muted. It’s clearly the sort of look they wanted for Year One from the beginning, but could not achieve. In contrast, Zero Year stands out from the comics surrounding it in the first half of the New 52 precisely because everything else is illustrated in this overly realistic dull and gritty style.

(Batman #405 — original printing vs recolor)

(Batman (2011) #22 vs Batman (2011) #1 — These comics have the same colorist, but clearly different philosophies guiding them)

This can also be seen in the Batman costumes themselves. While both Year One and Zero Year are drawing from the same original Batman costume from Detective Comics #27, they take different parts. Year One’s Batman suit has a simple and streamlined black and grey. The Zero Year suit keeps the purple gloves.

(From left to right: Batman in Detective Comics #27, Batman #405, and Batman (2011) #24. While the image from Detective Comics #27 is faded, note that the gloves are purple)

This contrast isn’t just in the origins themselves—it is the comics that surround and follow them as well. Year One and Zero Year are origins for two different eras of Batman. I’ve read primarily post-crisis Batman comics and am less familiar with the pre-crisis era, so I can’t say how much of the storylines that followed were specifically picking up on Year One’s influence, and how much was just the natural change in storytelling direction, but throughout the major Batman events of the Post-Crisis era, there is a throughline of sensibilities that they share with Year One. AsYear One set out to tell the grounded origin of the Batman, so do many of the foes and challenges he faces have this grounded nature to them as well. They all still have a larger than life feel, but the foes Batman faces tend to fall into the categories of crime (Knightfall, War Games), natural disasters (Contagion, Legacy, Cataclysm), and himself (all of them, but more specifically Murderer/Fugitive and arguably a Lonely Place of Dying as well). These are events that start from a realistic starting point that are magnified. Earthquakes, outbreaks of disease, a gang war—these are all things that could happen to any city. Any man could lose a son or be framed for murder. The heightened nature of these stories is what separates them from the real world.

(Even an event like No Man’s Land, with its premise of ‘Gotham getting kicked out the United States’ that stretches the suspension of disbelief, is intensely focused on what this means for the city that remains. It cares about grounding the fantastic events in real reactions.)

In contrast, post-flashpoint events tend to have this more fantastical feel. The Night of the Owls does not put Bruce up against ordinary corruption among the elite, but against a masked conspiracy with immortal assassins at their disposal. The driving force of Robin War is not the idealism of the We Are Robin movement against a city that doesn’t like or trust them, but a power play by the Court of Owls. In Night of the Monster Men, Batman and co. fight Kaiju-like monsters; there are themes of contagion throughout the story, but this isn’t a hopeless fight against that ancient enemy of humanity that is disease, it’s a thrilling, action-packed fight. One approach is not necessarily better than the other, but they are fundamentally different paradigms of storytelling. I remember reading Night of the Monster Men at the same time as the lead up to Bruce Wayne: Murdere/Fugitive and thinking that they didn’t feel anything alike.

 Unlike Year One, Zero Year does not feel like a origin point for this shift in narrative focus. The beginning of the new52, while having the benefit of being the beginning of a new era, also isn’t it—these storytelling trends could be seen in the comics leading up to Flashpoint as well. If I had to pick an event that started to show this shift, it would be Batman RIP. Morrison’s love for silver age comics and deep cuts to lore lead it to having that same fantastical feel. While the Batman of Morrison’s run is nominatively the one of Year: One, he fits more in line with the storytelling motivations of Zero Year—the callbacks to older ages (Morrisons’ Batman definitely wore the purple gloves), the extreme feats of survival, the larger than life events. Year One was an origin for an era that had come to an end.

A new Batman origin was inevitable, if for no other reason than the constant passage of time. One of the big differences between Year One and Zero Year is the sheer difference in the type of technology Batman uses in each. In Year One, there is no Bat-Computer. Bruce has his grappling hooks, his smoke bombs, his ultrasonic device that summons hoards of bats—It’s all far too simple for a Batman of today’s world. Zero Year has computers everywhere and Batman’s gadgets are upgrading to fit the glitz and advancement of the modern era. The New52 gave DC the chance to revisit it and for better or for worse, no one could call Zero Year, ‘Year One only set 30 years later’. Both works are products of their times, and both works show the audience not only the basic beats of Bruce’s origin, but also what a Batman story looks like. Together, they show the way that he has evolved as a character over the years. Maybe in 15 years, DC will put out another origin epic for Batman. Chances are, he’ll have changed yet again.

[trexiejan]

My opinion : Babs was deaged to be with Dick.

Okay so I've seen so many dickbabs shippers try to deny that Barbara was deaged to fit Dick for the purpose of defending dickbabs or make them look better i guess. They keep saying that wasn't the reason why she was deaged. they always point to the 1st time she got deaged.

like why are they so upset when they see people say that. I wonder if they care more about the ship than barbara as an individual character.

cuz if they truly liked Barbara separately from Dickbabs maybe all the anti-dickbabs comments wouldn't be an issue for them. 🤷‍♀️

anyway i'm going to explain why it's true.

here's the thing :

Barbara was deaged more than once.

Crisis on Infinite Earths wasn't the only time she was deaged, she got deaged again in other books/continuites.

So The real question is where did they deage her to be the same age as Dick to make them work not when was she first deaged. (we all know it's always in dickbabs comics where she's written as the same age as dick, i wonder why)

The 1st time she was deaged was in Crisis on Infinite Earths, it was so Jim could be younger but they only decreased her age slightly because she's still written as older than Dick, here is a panel from Secret Origins #20 that was published in 1986 exactly 1 year after she was deaged in Crisis on infinite earths (1985) she said Dick is too young for her and that batman is always the one on her mind. So Dickbabs during this time still has a big age gap so they're still unable to work.

The 2nd time or 3rd time she was deaged is in dickbabs comics where she was finally made the same age as Dick so dickbabs can finally work as romantic pairing. 

Instead of being older she's now written as a part of Dick's generation.

From a congresswoman to someone who went to highschool prom with Dick.

Even Tom Taylor wrote them as childhood sweethearts so he can portray them as soulmates in his comics. a huge wtf moment for me because Babs wasn't originally this young when she first met Dick 😭

pls She had a PHD, has been working as a librarian and congresswoman when dick was still a young boy in gotham.

Barbara is now written as a part of his generation and his one true love since day 1. (from an independent congresswoman to Dick's childhood sweetheart and girlfriend who revolves around him)

Before Dickbabs couldn't work because of their age gap but now they can work. thanks to dickbabs comics deaging barbara again and this time for the sole purpose of reducing Babs into Dick's love interest.

So Just because she wasn't deaged to be with Dick in her 1st deaging doesn't mean she wasn't deaged to be with Dick in her 2nd or 3rd deaging 🙃

Dickbabs shippers can deny it all they want but at the end of the day dickbabs wouldn't have worked out if she wasn't deaged to be the same age as dick.

and even if they're right, let's say for the sake of their argument they're right that babs wasn't deaged to be with dick, it still doesn't change the fact that dickbabs is weird.

Regardless if Babs was deaged to be with Dick or not, It's still weird to see Dick being put in a relationship with a woman who was originally a congresswoman when he was still in highschool.  

It's like deaging Batman into a teenager (like let's say it's because they want to make Bruce appealing to teenagers) but years later they decided to give him a love interest who is also a teenager as part of the new batman stories.

So even though his deaging has nothing to do with women or shipping in the first place, it's still weird to suddenly see Batman in a relationship with women who are a part of dick's generation knowing he was originally much older than them.

Like Bruce/Raven or Bruce/Starfire suddenly becoming a thing 🤢 No amount of deaging would be able to justify those pairings.

The same happened to Barbara she was originally a part of Batman and Superman's generation.

for goodness sake she dated Superman!!!! She was so much older than Dick.

Also remember when Dickbabs was originally a pedo-like ship and it was so controversial and hated the same way Brucebabs was hated today? Because Barbara the adult woman is kissing minor grayson but now she's fully making out and having sex with minor grayson in dickbabs comics.

The reason why Dickbabs fans don't want people talking about this is because they care more about making dickbabs look good than barbara's independence. They don't care that Barbara lost her independence, her phd, her solo careers, her librarian and congresswoman job because of dickbabs shipping.

They don't view Barbara as a character seperate from dick. Barbara is trapped in this relationship because of people like them. They don't fight for Barbara's independence. The only thing they want from her is to be the girlfriend of Dick and nothing else. It is so hard for them to let Barbara Gordon be independent and not just “Nightwings girlfriend."

Barbara's real enemy is the dickbabs ship. Before, she is able to stand on her own, but now she's nothing more than just a love interest who can't live without dick and too dependent on him and his solo books to exist.

DC really needs to get Barbara some actual character building that doesn't involve Nightwing whatsoever but it's hard to do that when she won't even stop chasing Dick nonstop like a dog in his solo books and thinking about him 24/7 because of writers like tom taylor who is always busy making babs' entire personality all about dick than writing solo babs stories.

Dickbabs is unnecessary and disservice to her character, it does nothing for her independence. She is forever demoted to Dick's love interest unless they free her from this ship.

poor babs she deserves better than people who only want to associate her with dick 24/7.

[lexi7654]

Reading list #1: Lian Harper (aka: Shoes/Cheshire Cat)

A list of every appearance of Lian Harper. The daughter of Roy Harper and Jade Nguyen. She first appeared in the 80s and has recently made a come back as Cheshire Cat in Gotham!!

Pre-Flashpoint

New Teen Titans (1984): #21

Action Comics (1938): #615, 618, 627-631, 634, 636-637, 639 (Stories: tracks of a killer, the Cheshire Contract, Rocks and Hard Places, Exiles)

Secret Origins (1986): #38

Green Arrow (1988): #75

Batman Plus: Arsenal (1997)

Teen Titans (1996): #20

Arsenal (1998): #1-4

The Titans (1999): #1

The Titans: Secret Files and Origins (1999): #1

The Titans (1999): #5-7, 9-10, 13, 17-19, 21-27, 30-32, 34-35, 37, 39

Teen Titans/Outsiders Secret Files & Origins (2003) (story: Who Was Donna Troy?)

Outsiders (2003): 11, 17-19

DC Special: The Return of Donna Troy (2005): #2

Justice League of America (2006) #1, 12, 17

Green Arrow and Black Canary (2009): #25 (story: Bedtime Stories)

Titans (2008): #19

Justice League: Cry for Justice

Rise and Fall (Crossover storyline)

Convergence: Titans (2015): 1-2

Infinite Frontier

Catwoman (2018): 25-28, 30-32

DC Festival of Heroes: The Asian Superhero Celebration (2021): (Story: Masks)

Catwoman (2018): 35-38, 50

Detective Comics (2016): 1069-1070, 1077-1079

Green Arrow (2023)

[heroesriseandfall]

Dick Grayson & Tim Drake: A Photograph

A photo of my family and you’re in it.

Comic sources:

Batman #441

Secret Origins #50

Batman #436

Batman #436

Batman #441

Batman #441

Secret Origins #50

Secret Origins 80-Page Giant #1, “Little Wing”

Secret Origins 80-Page Giant #1, “Little Wing” [edited]

Secret Origins 80-Page Giant #1, “Little Wing”

Secret Origins #50

Detective Comics #965

52 #31, “The Origin of Robin”

Batman #441 - Cover by George Pérez

Red Robin #12

Secret Origins 80-Page Giant #1, “Little Wing”

Batman #440

Image descriptions in alt text are also copied below read more.

1. Two comic panels from Batman #441 showing 13-year old Tim Drake sitting in a chair at Wayne Manor, with Dick Grayson in front of him and Alfred Pennyworth standing beyond that. They all have serious expressions on their faces. Tim says, “Okay, you won’t take me seriously until I tell you everything. Dick, I don’t want this to hurt you. And I’m really afraid it might.” Dick says, “Tim, just tell your story, please.” Tim reaches into his jacket as if to grab something and says, “All right, all right. Well, first, my name’s Tim Drake…and though you won’t remember it, we’ve met before. I’ve even got a photograph to prove it.”

2. Text from Secret Origins (1986) #50 that says: A woman with a small boy in the front of the grandstand waved to him. All three Graysons trotted to her. “This is Tim’s first time at the circus,” she said, patting the boy’s thin shoulder, “and we were wondering if you’d let us take your photo with him.” “Of course,” Mother replied, smiling. “We’d be delighted.”

3. Comic panels from Batman #436 showing John and Mary Grayson in their yellow, green, and red circus costumes as they walk through the circus with a young Dick Grayson between them. John says, “Dick, I’ve got those tickets for the baseball game monday.” Dick grins up at him and says, “You really got ‘em? Wow! I can’t believe I’m actually going to the World Series.” Someone off-panel says, “Umm, excuse us for interrupting, but—” The Drakes walk right up to the Graysons. Janet is in a pink day dress and Jack is in a suit, holding a very young Tim Drake in his arms. Janet says, “This is Tim’s first time at a circus, and we were wondering if you’d let us take your photo with him?” Mary Grayson puts her hands on Dick’s shoulders as Dick grins up at little Tim, who smiles down at him in response. Mary says, “Of course…we’d be delighted.” They all pose for a picture with the crowds behind them. Jack and Janet stand between John and Mary, while Dick kneels in the front holding young Tim up on his knee. He looks down at Tim, who looks back, and with a smile, Dick says, “Tim, say cheese.”

4. A comic panel from Batman #436 showing Alfred Pennyworth’s hands holding out and gesturing towards a photo as he says, “Gentlemen, and ladies—the very last photo of the Grayson family together. One last moment of happiness.” The photo shows the Grayson and Drake families together in the same poses as the previous image. John and Mary Grayson stand on either side of Jack and Janet Drake, while Dick kneels on one knee with his other knee up, where he is holding young Tim to sit on the knee. The parents are looking forewards, but Dick and Tim are looking at each other. The Graysons are all in their circus costumes, but the Drakes are in suits and Janet a dress.

5. A comic page from Batman #441. The first panel shows Tim Drake, who is sitting in a chair at Wayne Manor and holding up a photo of the Drakes with the Flying Graysons while Dick Grayson is standing in front of Tim’s chair. Tim says, “This was taken on my first trip to the circus—on the day I saw Batman for the first time...On the day your parents were killed.” Dick Grayson looks shocked, and takes the photo as he says, “Oh, my god—my parents.” Alfred Pennyworth, standing behind Dick, says, “I—I know this photograph, that’s you?” Tim looks up at them and says, “Uh-huh. After Bruce Wayne made you his ward, my parents sent it to you. They thought you’d want it. I was only a kid, but I don’t think I’ll ever forget what happened. I had nightmares about it for years. First about your parents, then about Batman. I kept seeing this dark black thing that swooped out of the sky. No, no—let me start at the beginning.” The scene changes to a gold-toned memory of the Drakes walking through Haly’s Circus. Janet is in a light dress, holding Jack’s arm as they grin at each other. Jack is in a suit, holding a young Tim who is also in a suit and has a big smile on his face as he reaches towards a passing Clown. Janet says, “I think you were right, honey—he loves it. Look at him laughing at everything.” Jack replies, “Hey, I said he wasn’t too young.” Janet says, “Okay, I was wrong. But sometimes circuses can frighten kids.” The Drakes walk through the circus, toward where you can see the Flying Graysons walking together. Janet continues, “They’re loud and rowdy, and I remember when I was Timothy’s age I was scared by people wearing costumes. Sue me. I'm a mother. I worry.” Jack says, “You were a girl. Tim’s a boy. That’s the difference.” Janet smiles up at Jack and says, “Sexism, dear? And here I thought you were liberated.” Jack follows Tim’s eyesight toward the smiling Flying Graysons as they walk past, then says, “Okay, okay, I’m sorry. Look, if you’re so worried, there’re a couple of the performers. Let’s take him over there. He’ll see they’re people just like him.”

6. A comic page from Batman #441 showing a gold-toned memory scene with the Flying Graysons, all in acrobatics costumes remniscent of the Robin suit, and the Drakes, who are wearing formal dress. Mary and John are smiling at Dick walking between them as Dick excitedly says, “—I’m actually going to the world series?” Beyond him, Janet and Jack Drake are walking up to them, with Jack holding a very young smiling Tim in his arms. Jack says, “Umm, excuse us for interrupting, but this is Tim’s first time at the circus…and we were wondering if you’d let us take your photo with him?” The two families pose, with Dick on one knee with Tim Drake sitting on his other knee, held up by Dick’s arms. Tim stares at Dick in wonder as Dick smiles at him and says, “Tim, say cheese.” 13-year-old Tim speaks through a narration box to say, “Maybe I knew you were just a kid like me, but I kept staring at you, and your circus costume. It was bright red and green and you seemed so happy in it.” In the memory, Dick pats Tim’s head as he gets ready to leave, and says, “Watch me on the trapeze, Tim. I’m going to do my act—‘specially for you. Be good now.” Then the scene returns to the present, in regular color, showing 13-year-old Tim sitting in Wayne Manor while Alfred and Dick look at him. Tim says, “I don’t remember the clowns or the animals, or anything else. I just remember waiting for you to go on. And then, when you did, I just sat there and watched.”

7. Text from Secret Origins #50 that says: The photo was snapped and the Graysons returned to the darkness of the backstage area and did the stretching exercises Johnny Grayson insisted precede every performance. On the other side of the canvas wall, the crowd was laughing and applauding the clowns’ fireman routine. They heard the ringmaster’s round baritone, amplified and distorted by the loud speakers, booming through the tent. “Ladies and gentlemen, children of all ages—for your entertainment and amusement, doing their death-defying act without benefit of a net—” Johnny kissed his wife and ruffled his son’s hair.

8. A comic panel from Secret Origins 80-Page Giant #1, the fourth story, showing Tim Drake and Dick Grayson sitting on a couch in Dick Grayson’s apartment. Tim is on the left wearing a pink and purple Gotham Knights jersey with a matching hat. He’s pointing at Dick, who’s turned to listen attentively to Tim while wearing a white tank top and gray sweats as he clicks a TV remote. Tim says, “Dick, meeting you—and him—have been the single most defining moments of my life.” The scene changes to the memory of the Drakes and the Flying Graysons posing together in Haly’s Circus while someone who is just a silhouette takes a photo of them. John and Mary are standing on either side of Jack and Janet with wide smiles, each in their red, yellow, and green acrobatics outfits. John’s and Dick’s outfits look particularly remniscent of the Robin outfit. Dick is kneeled in front of the parents with one knee up where young Tim is sitting on his thigh, smiling and looking at Dick. 14-year-old Tim narrates this memory by saying, “Some days I wish I could go back to feeling like that. You promised me that you’d do a quadruple somersault. And you delivered. It was the best day of my life. And then your parents died.”

9. An edited comic panel from Secret Origins 80-Page Giant #1 of very young Tim Drake with his father’s arm on his shoulder, both looking up at John and Mary Grayson falling. John and Mary are in their red, yellow, and green acrobatics costumes, knees bent and arms stretched with one part of hands barely touching. Behind them, their acrobatic lines are snapping. Crowds in the large tent are yelling and pointing up at them. Tim’s face is not visible but he’s clearly watching them fall.

10. A comic panel from Secret Origins 80-Page Giant #1 of nine-year-old Tim Drake staring at a TV screen, on which Robin is visible mid-flip, arms holding his legs tucked in. The Penguin is croached with his back turned to Robin, directly in position for Robin to land on him. Audio from the TV is saying, “Wanted for theft of the Lapis Lazuli Horus Crown, the so-called Penguin was apprehended by the Batman and a young costumed vigilante…” 13-year-old Tim narrates the memory of his younger self, saying: “You gave yourself away with the quad. The ringmaster told the crowd at Haly’s that only three people alive could pull off a jump like that—you and a pair of Russian gymnasts that defected from the Bolshoi to Ringing Brothers. I knew it was you.” Off-panel, Dick Grayson responds to Tim’s recollection by saying, ”Incredible. A nine-year-old kid figures out the best-kept secret on the planet.” In the memory, just beyond young Tim in the background are Jack and Janet Drake at a table, with Jack looking like he’s speaking angrily.

11. Text from Secret Origins #50 that says: Below, the ringmaster was saying, “Ladies and gentlemen, quiet, please, as young Dick Grayson attempts the in-credible…im-possible…quadruple flip of doom!” Dick breathed deeply and slowly, relaxing himself as Johnny had taught him, grabbed the bar, pushed off the platform, letting momentum carry him— But was something wrong? The trapeze didn’t feel right. —and allowed his mind to empty, and there were the few dizzy, exhilarating instants: spin spin spin spin. Feet thudding onto the platform. Roar of applause. Mother’s warm fingers touching his cheek. Ringmaster’s boom: “Let’s hear it, ladies and gentlemen—dauntless Dick Grayson, the boy wonder of the circus!”

12. A comic page from Detective Comics #965 showing a warm-toned scene of 13-year-old Tim Drake talking to a gobsmacked Dick Grayson in Wayne Manor. Tim says, “C’mon, Dick—that flip you did as Robin. It was a quadruple somersault. The circus ringmaster said only three people could do that.” Tim holds up a photo of the Drakes with the Flying Graysons, and continues, “I knew that somersault. Knew it like I knew my own name.” Tim smiles and says, “And it all made sense. Batman showed up at the circus and took you with him. About six months later, Robin made his first appearance. If you were Robin, and you were Bruce Wayne’s ward—I realized Bruce Wayne was batman.” The scene zooms out to show Tim sitting in a chair as Dick and Alfred Pennyworth stare at him. Tim says, “I don’t want to say the rest was easy, because you guys really covered your tracks. But if you go in knowing Bruce Wayne and Dick Grayson are Batman and Robin, well, you can find the clues to prove it.”

13. Comic panels from 52 #31, 2nd story, “The Origin of Robin.” 9-year-old Tim Drake is shown from the back, sitting on the floor staring at a TV screen that shows Dick Grayson as Robin, flipping through the air. Tim’s face is reflected in the TV screen, showing his awestruck smile. Various objects are scattered on the floor in front of Tim, including pizza, books, and a magnifying glass. Orange narration boxes say, “The eyes of a fan caught a moment the rest of the world had overlooked. Tim Drake—and Tim Drake alone—had grown up fascinated by the career of an obscure and forgotten child acrobat named Dick Grayson—but when Tim saw Batman’s partner Robin perform Grayson’s signature gymnastic moves, something clicked in Tim’s mind.” The next panel shows Tim in a trenchcoat, expression awestruck as he shines a flashlight through a glass case in which a pristine Robin costume is hanging. The narration boxes continue, “Over the next few years, Tim—through a series of clues and lucky breaks—proved conclusively that Grayson was Robin…or, rather, had been.”

14. George Pérez’s cover art for Batman #441, cropped to focus on the lower half. Dick Grayson, in civilian clothing, is standing in the forefront of the image, with the 80’s Batcave looming around him. He’s looking down with a pensive expression at the Robin costume held in his hands. Behind to the right, Tim Drake (also in civilian clothing) is standing with photographs falling out of his hands in front of Dick’s shoes. The closest photo shows the Flying Graysons posing with the Drake family. The next closest two photos are of Robin and Batman. Beyond Dick and the photos, to the left, is Alfred Pennyworth. Up at the top, partially cropped away, are Batman and Two Face’s lower faces, with a scene of a bridge by Batman’s face and a flipping coin with a scene of Gemini casinio behind it right next to Two Face’s face. In the Batcave, the giant penny, the T-rex, and the massive batcomputer are all on prominent display.

15. Comic panels from Red Robin #12 of Dick Grayson talking to Tim Drake with a blurry aquamarine Batcave behind them. Dick is wearing the chestplate of the Batman suit but no cowl, as he looks intensely (with the slightest smile) toward Tim, who is shirtless, revealing long pink scratches and scars along his shoulder and cheek. Tim, looking up at Dick, says, “Ra’s—” Dick says, “Gone. We swept the place and got nothing. You want to tell me what that was all about?” Tim replies, “It’s...a little complicated. But I think we’re good for a while.” Dick says, “How’d you know? How did you know I’d be there to save you?” Tim smiles up at Dick as he says, “You’re my brother, Dick. You’ll always be there for me.”

16. A comic panel from Secret Origins 80-Page Giant #1 showing Tim drake and Dick Grayson sitting on the couch in Dick’s apartment. Dick is reaching over to mess with Tim’s hair as Tim laughs and leans away, raising his hands to jokingly defend against Dick. Behind them in the apartment is a desk with a computer whose screen is lit up with a woman’s sketchy face. Dick says, “Got a friend visiting.” Barbara Gordon, over Dick’s computer audio, asks, “Anyone I know?” Dick says, “Little brother.”

17. Cropped art from Batman #440 of a cool-toned photograph with the Flying Graysons and the Drake family posing together. The Flying Graysons are all in their acrobatics outfits. John and Dick Grayson’s outfits are styled similarly, looking like a mix of the original Robin suit and Tim Drake’s first Robin suit. John and Mary are stood to either side of the smiling Jack and Janet Drake. Jack is in a suit and his hands are resting on Janet’s arms. Janet is wearing a day dress. In front of all the parents, Dick Grayson is down on one knee, with his left knee up so little Tim Drake can be perched on his thigh. Tim is in a a suit, similar to his father, and he’s looking up at Dick with a broad, awestruck smile. Dick is holding Tim in place with his arms, and instead of looking toward the camera like the parents are, he’s meeting Tim’s eyes with a smile. Behind them all, the crowds of Haly’s Circus are vaguely visible. In the corner by Dick’s right left, 13-year-old Tim Drake’s thumb is resting on the photograph, as if he’s holding it.

[stackthedeck]

Do you know of any good booster gold reading lists for a beginner to his comics? You're converting me

I've made a few videos about with reading lists for him on tiktok they're in my comic recommendations playlist but also like I fully understand not wanting to open that app

there's this thread on twitter that gives specific issues so you don't have to read decades of comics this is a good way to get an idea of the character quickly. It's a fast way of reading but I find the skipping between books tedious and not as much fun

there's also this very helpful very exhaustive spreadsheet of every appearance of Ted and Booster! Very helpful, but you don't have to read everything for sure

And then I'm going to put my own personal reading list under the cut and it's a lot so remember you don't have to read everything and there's no shame in skipping around!

Must reads

Booster Gold 1986— This is the first appearance of Booster Gold, obviously you've gotta read it. It's only 25 issues and is legitimately such a fun and interesting read. The way information about him is slowly revealed is good I wish I could have been there when these were releasing

Justice League International/America— some people read this as they read Booster Gold (refer to the twitter thread I linked if you want to do that) I didn't and I wasn't confused when reading it. I kinda like reading it all without switching to the other book. This is a huge stretch of comics and I'm not saying you should read it all... but I'm also saying it's a very good era of comics and I enjoyed it a lot. If you only want Booster related issue refer to the spreadsheet.

Countdown to Infinite Crisis— woah big skip in time! Let's just say after JLA ends Booster and the team have a... controversial stretch of appearances. Countdown is just one big long single issue and it's beautiful, gotta read it.

The OMAC Project— this is the fallout of countdown and I really enjoy Booster being angry and it helps set up Infinite Crisis which I guess you should also read but I'm really take it or leave it with that event.

52 weeks— (not to be confused with new 52 I made that mistake) This book works surprising well for having four authors and so many characters to juggle. Booster is a huge player in this event and it's very enjoyable to read as a fan of him. This event also leads directly to his second solo

Booster Gold 2007—this shit fucks so hard!! I love Booster as "the greatest hero you've never heard of" he has so much character growth, fun stories, and an amazing supporting cast! The numbers can be weird if you're read it on a certain pirating website so start with 1 through 6 then go to 0 back to 7 through 10 then issue one million then back to 11

Justice League Generation Lost—this is basically the new JLI but with Jaime Reyes as the Blue Beetle because Ted is gone. It's a very fun dynamic with this new old team and it works so so well especially Booster and Jaime's friendship. This one I do recommend reading with the Booster Gold solo so after issue 32 of Booster Gold, start Generation Lost and basically switch back and further every issue

Please Read Them For Me

Extreme Justice— this is an aggressively 90s run and is largely ignored by the comic community and canon BUT I SWEAR IT'S GOOD! Booster is essentially in an iron lung and he is not handling it well. Booster got flattened by JLI quite a bit and I really do think this run added some depth back to him

Time Masters 1990—Booster is barely in this, but trust me Rip Hunter is important and it's a very fun and interesting time travel adventure with a really cool group of characters

Time Masters: Vanishing Point—No connection to Time Masters 90 except that Rip is here. But Booster has a lot of really good moments in this. Ignore the Batman bits this is truly just a story about Rip and Booster

Origin Story revisited

(Both BG 86 and BG 07 establish and revisit the origin story so you'll get to them as you're reading)

Secret Origins 1986 #35—honestly a pretty standard origin story but I really like how this story highlights Booster's relationship to his mom and sister

Justice League Quarterly #10—I hope you're reading the quarterly and annual issues when reading JLI because they are some of the best stories but this one in particular is just beautiful

Action Comics 2016 #993-998 (Booster Shot)— Really this is more of a funny action packed and surprisingly heartfelt team-up time travel adventure with Superman and Booster, but this does provide additional context to Booster's origin story and I like it a lot. This story is really really so good

Just Plain Fun

Martian Manhunter #24— Booster and Ted steal all of J'onn's. oreos. this is an incredibly iconic issue, it's hilarious and just the kinda hijinks you want from the boys

Blue and Gold— I personally think this run is deeply out of character and a little too "lol memes" for me, but it does have some good like Trixie coming back and seeing Ted and Booster together again

Blue Beetle 2023—issue 7 is the main Booster story but he has other appearances in this run read the whole thing it's short and so good actually just read every blue beetle solo. It's a really visually beautiful time travel story and I love Booster and Jaime being friends even now that Ted is back

Batman Brave and the Bold #13-15— it's a fun time shenanigans story with the Jurassic Justice League what's not to love

DC's 'Twas the 'Mite Before Christmas— a cute christmas story with Booster and Rip and what I cling to in hopes that Rip will return to DC comics soone

Harley Quinn 2016 #70-74— this is a controversial take but I like Booster and Harley together, as a temporary couple at least and definitely as friends and partners in being silly. This story gives Booster an unexpected amount of emotional intelligence and it's nice

[just-an-enby-lemon]

I sometimes think about how Riddler's sentiments in Secret Origins ressonates with Dick.

Because Jason may have though that Robin gave him magic but on Dick's case this was actually true. Specially if we consider Riddler has a point. That the villains used to not really be evil. Dick got beatings fighting crime but it was always something he could take, he could fly and win and he was untouchable, even in bright colors and shorts no one could hit him. Gotham was his Neverland. And then he moved and Jason became Robin and he loved him but he also felt deeply jealous that someone got his power, his Neverland but then Jason died and Dick had lost his brother and his kingdom. He was a kid, he never took it as seriously as Bruce until Nightwing, and even after he still had this notion that Robin should be untouchable, the world his playground. But now the rules changed and villains are dark and cruel and Riddler is actually killing and Firefly burned a library with people inside and everyone is just worse and Joker took his brother's life.

And that goes to Jason who only realized the world had changed as he died. To Barbara who was actually the first victim of this suddem boom of darknees. And to Tim, Steph, Cass, Duke and Damian and all the others who never knew better, never understood it wasn't always like this. And it all goes back to Dick. Who saw it all. Who grew up in it all. Who saw his Neverland turn into a nightmare with an smile, hugging his family closer and hoping all of them came out alright.

[momachan]

"Here lies a failure, Richard Grayson, failure to Titans, to Batman, to Jason, as human or hero unfit for the task. A total non-entity, a blank in a mask."

Teen Titans. Secret Origins (1986-1990). Annual #3. "Pieces Of The Puzzle."

[vechter]

nightwing (1996) #102 // south of the border, west of the sun, haruki murakami // action comics (1938) #613 // the teacher, marie howe // secret origins (1986) #13 // doggy style, maisie cowell // secret origins (1986) #13 // thumbs, lucy dacus // nightwing (1996) #102 // batman: dark victory (1999) #13 // the wee free men, terry pratchett // action comics (1938) #613 // superman/batman (2003) #13 // batman (1940) #636 // batman (1940) #441 // a dog jumping over a wall, feng li // things i never give myself permission to say, chelsea dingman // batman (1940) #408 // batman (1940) #438 // east, west, salman rushdie // batman (1940) #416 // infinite crisis (2005) #4 // ask polly: help, i'm the loneliest person in the world!

dick & bruce + leaving robin

[celaenaeiln]

Ive been reading the older comics (1950s) of World’s Finest, and I just realised Batman is so smiley and full of expression while Superman kind of isn’t. Is there a reason for this change or is it just the authors and time changing haha

YES!! Yes to both but I have so much to say about this because it's not just about time changing, but the way real life changed is intertwined in the comics in their character growths.

Batman

Let's start with the grim avenger. Here's the thing - the grim avenger wasn't grim because he had Dick Grayson by his side and I'll explain how the medal ages and Bruce's happiness is connected to how close Dick was to Bruce and the relationship Dick had with Bruce influences his view later on of his father in comparison to how the rest of the batkids see Bruce.

As you said, Bruce was the happiest he's ever been in the 1950s. He and Dick had the time of their lives, sunshine, glory, joy, adventure - you name it and they had it all. This was the Golden Age.

Batman (1940) Issue #46

Detective Comics (1937) Issue #95

But as time passed, Dick eventually began to grow up. When the Teen Titans first formed, the Golden Age of comics transitioned into the Silver Age as Dick began to work more independently from Bruce but was still close. The Bronze Age was when Dick was on the cusp of leaving and then just left (1970s-1985s).

The reason I'm bringing this up as to why Bruce changed, it has to do with Dick. When Dick went off to college, Bruce actually shut the cave down and moved out of the manor with Alfred because he didn't know how to be Batman without Dick. He said he was going on a little soul-searching to find himself again.

Batman (1940) Issue #217

But real-life readers got really mad this and said, "Bruce was always a grim detective. When he was with Robin, he was too happy! We want to see him angry like he used to be!" So the writers realized that Bruce turning away from Batman was huge mistake so this set forth the grim avenger batman thing again.

Dick also feels the same way, that him moving to college was what changed the dynamics between them.

Secret Origins (1986) Issue #13

Granted Bruce is mad that Dick decided to drop out of college in favor of being Robin but it's also about the fact that Bruce wouldn't have responded like this before. Something's changed. And overall it can be summed up to Bruce being angry, frustrated, upset, and lonely with Dick gone, those emotions compounding into a new or renegaded form of Batman, Dick coming back and realizing - he doesn't want to be controlled and he doesn't want to be this new darker version of Bruce. The change in idealisms were Dick is more light-hearted and Bruce is slowly becoming Darker weighs on Bruce too.

Bruce's pov of the situation -

Batman (1940) Issue #138

Dick's pov -

Secret Origins (1986) Issue #13

Dick didn't want to be like Batman, Bruce was already upset but Dick's gradual distance from who he was turning into combined with his frustration of himself - it led Bruce to become the person he is now, someone he doesn't like and it's this circling self-hatred of what he become that keeps him perpetually angry and moody.

It's so important to talk about this because it's not just a time change, it's actively part of the comics. It's part of who Bruce is and why he is this way now. To explain more on what I said and elaborate further on what you said about Bruce becoming less smile-y :

Batman (1940) Issue #359

He lashes out at Dick, feels bad about it, and grumps over how he can't trust anyone in the world and this just keeps continuing over the years.

Tim and Dick actually talk about this too, the idea that Bruce was different with Dick then he was later on. Going on a slight tangent here but during one time in Gotham Knights Dick gets "dismayed" at Tim because Tim questions Bruce's morality and Dick's like "How dare you! He's a good person, he's amazing." And Tim's just like "No, he's not??"

Batman: Gotham Knights Issue #26

Dick grouches about this with Barbara and she tells him -

Batman: Gotham Knights Issue #26

slayy

Again what she says "First of all, the Bruce who raised you and the Bruce who works with Tim are not exactly the same man. Tim has had a very different experience, and is likely to have very different thoughts and beliefs."

Tim says it too in Batman: A Lonely Place of Dying when he's comparing Dick and Jason's Robin eras -

Batman: A Lonely Place of Dying

And Dick talks about it again with Checkmate in the Checkmate (2006) comic about how he used to make Bruce laugh. He's quiet for a moment and then they talk somberly about how Bruce never laughs anymore.

So to sum it all up, the reason Bruce changed was because Dick drifted apart from him as he aged and he grew more independent, and Bruce as a result felt stifled and upset by this change and grew more independent too but in a darker way, and all these changes between Dick and him as well as within himself led to him being gloomier and grumpier. The authors also played a big part in acknowledging Bruce changing as a result of Dick leaving but also due to the readers' responses of having Batman return to his stern countenance of a time before Dick came along. Hence the decreasing medal ages that went from a happy Bruce Wayne to the sad and waspish one we know now. But maybe it also has to do with the fact that Bruce and Dick stopped getting to ride the backs of dinosaurs, fight pirates, and play prince and the pauper with real princes lol.

Superman

Clark is a very different story and I think it's because of how it's the reverse of Batman. In the beginning Clark was very - stern? He definitely wasn't smiling or laughing or fuzzy feelings but it wasn't the author's intention for him to be any of that. In the beginning, Superman was portrayed be a powerful and virtuous hero, fighting for truth, justice, and the American way. This portrayal was aimed at providing readers an uplifting and optimistic character during hard times because he was created in 1939 and it was the end of the Great Depression (1929 - 1939) and the beginning of WWII (1939 - 1945). The fact that it was the end of the great depression only made it worse because the depression only ended due to millions of men and women going off to fight war. So it was just VERY upsetting times and therefore Superman was a symbol of hope - for the war.

Superman (1939) Issue #12

Superman (1939) Issue #8

Superman (1939) Issue #34

But as soon as the war ended, you see a shift in the way Superman is written.

Superman (1939) Issue #36

Superman (1939) Issue #76

I guess it all comes down to this - Clark's writers were focused on his deeds. It was about solving problems and that's it. Whereas with Bruce, the focus was on solving problems but it was done through his relationships. He relied heavily on Dick as a partner and best friend and they were able to share their difficulties and have fun whereas Clark had no one, except Lois but in civilian identity. Because of this, it wasn't until later comics when writers started introducing new elements, exploring different aspects of his character, and adapting to the changing cultural and social contexts that these interpretations have included moments of joy, personal growth, and triumphs, as well as challenges, conflicts, and moments of introspection.

Superman: Heroes

It was both the ending of the war and gradually interacting with other characters that made his personality lighter and funner to read. You can even think about it this way - as Clark started to rely more on people, he started to open up and become more light hearted as the years passed but as Bruce began to distrust people and rely less on others, his personality grew darker and angrier. Bruce and Clark went through the same personality changes but Bruce started pretty early on with Dick and lost him leading to a downward turn in personality whereas Clark started with no one then gained Lois and Jimmy Olsen causing an upward trend. Two sides of a coin.

Moral of the story folks: learn to rely on others or end up like Batman.

[tiredofsatansbullshit]

Jason Todd Reading List

Pre-Crisis Robin

(this includes his origin, how he becomes Robin, and what happens to this version of Jason in the Pre-Crisis Timeline)

Batman #357-399 (1983-1986)

Detective Comics #524-567 (1983-1986)

Batman #400-403 (1986-1987)

Crisis on Infinite Earths #5, #9, #11-12 (1985-1986)

Post Crisis Robin

(includes his origin, how he becomes Robin and his death - i tried to have this chronologically according to when these events take place so that means the publishing order is a bit weird)

Nightwing #103-106 - Collected as Nightwing: Year One

Batman #402-403, #408-425, #430-431

Batman Annual #10-12

Tales of the Teen Titans #86-91

Legends

Detective Comics #575-578

Batman: Full Circle

Superman Annual #11 (1985)

Blue Devil #19 (1986)

New Teen Titans #18-31 (1986-1987)

Action Comics #556, #594

Batman: The Cult

Batman: A Death in the Family

Post Death Mentions

(includes any mentions, memories or appearances of Jason's "ghost" after his death. honestly, you don't need to read these to follow along for Jason's storyline but they show how those who cared about him dealt with his death.)

Batman #432-435, #496 (1987-1993)

Detective Comics #606, #609 (1989)

Underworld Unleashed #2 (1995)

Batman/Demon (1996)

Nightwing #10 (1997)

Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight #100 (1997)

Nightwing: Secret Files and Origins (1999)

Jokers Last Laugh (2001)

Joker: Last Laugh Secret Files and Origins (2001)

Deadman: Dead Again (2001)

Batman: Gotham Knights 16, #34, #43-45 (2001-2003)

JLA Avengers #2 (2003)

Batman: Gotham Country line (2005)

Detective Comics #790 (2004)

Batman #620-630 (2004)

Red Hood

Red Hood: The Lost Days - This is before Jason returns to Gotham as the Red Hood. It shows a bit of what he did after coming back to life

Hush/Batman #608-619 (2002-2003)

Batman: Under the Red Hood

Teen Titans V2 #29

Nightwing V2 #118-124 - collected in - Nightwing: Brothers in Blood

Outsiders V3 #44-46

Outsiders V3 Annual 1

Green Arrow V3 #69-72

Countdown to Final Crisis: Countdown to Final Crisis #51 (2007) Teen Titans #47 (2007) Countdown to Final Crisis #50-33 (2007) All New Atom #13-15 (2007) Countdown to Final Crisis #31-1 (2007-2008)

Battle for the Cowl: Robin #177, #182-183 (2008-2009) Azrael: Deaths Dark Knight #3 (2009) Batman: Battle for the Cowl (2009) Batman and Robin #3-6, #23-25 (2009-2011)

New 52 Red Hood

Batman #0

Secret Origins #5

Red Hood and The Outlaws V1 #1-14 (2011-2015)

DC Universe Presents #17 (2015)

Batman: Death of the Family: Batman #13-15 Red Hood and The Outlaws #15 Teen Titans #15 Batman #16 Red Hood and The Outlaws #16 Teen Titans #16 Batman #17

Red Hood and The Outlaws #17 (2013)

Batman and Robin #10-12, #17 (2012-2013)

Batman Inc (2012-2013)

Red Hood and The Outlaws #18 (2013)

Justice League #19 (2013)

Batman and Robin #20 (2013)

Supergirl #35 (2014)

Batman/Superman Annual 1 (2014)

Action Comics #34 (2014)

Action Comics Annual 3 (2014)

Batman and Robin #33-37 (2014-2015)

Red Hood and The Outlaws #19 (2013)

Red Hood and The Outlaws Annual 1 (2013)

Red Hood and The Outlaws #20-40 (2013-2015)

Batman Eternal #10-12,#15 ,#18-20 ,#25 ,#26 ,#28 (2014-2015)

Grayson #12 (2015)

Deathstroke V3 #15-16 (2014)

Batman/Superman #25-27 (2014)

Red Hood/Arsenal #1-6 (2015)

Batman and Robin Eternal (2015-2016)

Robin War: Robin War #1 (2015) Grayson #15 (2015) Detective Comics #47 (2015) Red Hood/Arsenal #7 (2015) We are Robin #7 (2015) Robin: Son of Batman #7 (2015) Robin War #6 (2016)

Red Hood/Arsenal #8-13 (2015-2016)

Rebirth Red Hood

(current continuity)

Red Hood and The Outlaws V2 #1-6

Batman #16

Nightwing #15 (2017)

Trinity Annual 1

Trinity #12-15 (2017) - This and Trinity Annual 1 is also known as Dark Destiny Arc

Red Hood and The Outlaws #7-18

Red Hood and The Outlaws Annual 1

Batman #33 (2017)

Detective Comics #967-968 (2017)

New Talent Showcase (2017)

Batman and The Signal #1, #3 (2018)

Batman: Prelude to the Wedding: Red Hood vs Anarky

Red Hood and The Outlaws #26-31

Red Hood and The Outlaws Annual 2

Teen Titans #22 (2018)

Teen Titans Annual 1 (2019)

Red Hood: Outlaw #31-36 - Continuing on from the Red Hood and The Outlaws comics but Jason is on his own now.

Red Hood: Outlaw Annual 3

Event Leviathan #2-3 (2019)

Harley Quinn: Villain of the Year (2019)

Red Hood: Outlaw #37-47

Batman: Alfred R.I.P #1 (2020)

Robin 80th Anniversary (2020)

Joker War: Nightwing #72 (2020) Red Hood: Outlaw #49 (2020) Batman #100 (2020)

Detective Comics #1030-1033 (2020)

Teen Titans #45 (2020)

Red Hood: Outlaw #50-52 (2020)

Batman: Urban Legends #1-6

Truth & Justice #10-12

Batman Secret Files: Clownhunter #1

Robin #5 (2021)

Nightwing Annual 1

Detective Comics #1041-1043, #1052, #1057

Task Force Z #1-12 (2021-2022)

The Joker: The Man Who Stopped Laughing #2-10 (2022-2023) - This is still ongoing, I will update when new issues that Jason appears in is published - in 6 and 7 Jason is only there for a few panels

Batman: Legends of Gotham (2023)

Lazarus Planet: Next Evolution (2023)

Batman 136 (2023)

Knight Terrors: Robin (2023)

Gotham War: ongoing

Batman/Catwoman: The Gotham War: Prelude [2023] Batman/Catwoman: The Gotham War: Battle lines[2023] Catwoman 57 [2023] Batman/Catwoman: The Gotham War: Red Hood #1 [2023] Batman 138 [2023] Batman/Catwoman: The Gotham War:Red Hood #2 [2023] Batman/Catwoman: The Gotham War: Scorched Earth - releasing 31/10/23

Nightwing 107 [2023]

Future State

(I'll be honest, I don't understand Future State vs current continuity so I can't explain much for this but it's a possible future timeline I think. Jason is undercover as a cop in this btw)

Dark Detective

Future State: Gotham #1-18

Alternate Universes

(can chose what among these you want to read. none of this affects the current continuity)

Batwoman #6 (2017)

- In this comic, Batwoman travels to an alternate universe where we see a Jason Todd who was never taken in by Bruce Wayne and ends up becoming a priest

DC Universe Legacies #5,6

Batman The Brave and the bold #13 (2012)

Li’l Gotham #2, #10, #12, #17, #20, #21, #24 (2012-2013)

- This comic is adorable

Tiny Titans #23, #29, #33, #39, #45, #47 (2010-2012)

- This comic is also adorable

Convergence: Batman and Robin (2015)

Arkhamverse: (these tie in with the Batman: Arkham Knight video game)

Arkham Knight: Genesis

Batman: Arkham Knight - the game picks up right after the end of this comic

DC Comics’ Bombshells #46, #60, #62 (2015-2016)

Bombshells United #18-24 (2018)

The Dark Knight Returns: The Last Crusade #1 (2016)

Injustice: (these tie in with the Injustice video games)

Injustice - Gods Among Us: Year Five #38 (2016)

Injustice 2 #2-3, #5-7, #13, #18-20, #46-49 (2017-2018)

Injustice Vs. The Masters Of The Universe (2018)

Beware the Batman #11 (2014)

Batman: White Knight #7 (2018)

Mother Panic: Gotham A.D #2-6 (2018)

Batman Beyond #25 (2018)

Batman/Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles III #5-6 (2019)

Titans Giant #1-4 (2020)

DCEASED: Unkillables (2020)

DCEASED: Dead Planet #2-5 (2020)

Batman the Adventure Continues (2020)

Batman: Three Jokers #1-3 (2020)

Suicide Squad: Get Joker! #1-3 (2021)

Titans United (2021)

- This was to promote the Titans HBO show (even though it does not tie with the show)

DC's Round Robin - Robins (2021)

DC vs Vampires

Dark Knights of Steel: (Ongoing, I will update as they are posted. Medieval AU, the Robins are all younger and met each other before they met Bruce)

Dark Knights of Steel: Tales from the Three Kingdoms

Dark Knights of Steel #1

Batman vs Robin (2022)

- Some more honesty, I haven't got a clue as to what this fits in with so I can't help much with this but I do know that it will be 5 issues, finishing in 2023

Batman - Beyond The White Knight #1, #4-8 (2022) (ongoing)

Batman White Knight Presents: Red Hood #1-2 (2022)

Batman: Wayne Family Adventures (Ongoing series on Webtoon.)

Red Hood: Outlaws (Ongoing series on Webtoon)

Batman: The Brave and the Bold #1, #4 (2023) - at the end we get to see an alternate universe where young Jason and Dick are brothers and first meet Bruce

Other Media

TV Shows

Batman: The Brave and The Bold, Season 2 Episode 19 - In this universe, Dick Grayson is the only Robin but in S2 E19, "Emperor Joker" features a scene in Bat-Mite's extra-dimensional museum where Bat-Mite has a statue depicting Jason's death. Bat-Mite then breaks the fourth wall and tells Batman that readers voted for Jason to die.

Young Justice - S2 E8, S2 E9, S2 E20, S4 E19 an image of Jason as Robin is seen with other memorials for heros. - Jason is also thought to be the Red Hooded Ninja who appears in S3 E6, S4 E5, S4 E8

Titans - Seasons 1 and 2 with a short cameo in season 3 of the HBO show

Movies

Batman: Under the Red Hood - Animated movie that changes the storyline of Jason's death, resurrection and return to Gotham

Batman: Death in the Family (2020) - This is an interactive film involving the events of Batman: Death in the Family comics.

Lego DC Batman: Family Matters (2019)

Video Games

Batman: Arkham Knight - Arkham Knight: Genesis and Batman: Arkham Knight comics are set before the events of this game.

Injustice: (these tie in with the Injustice comics listed above under Alternate Universes) Injustice: Gods Among us (mentioned) Injustice 2

Gotham Knights - The Batfamily (Dick, Barbara, Jason and Tim) protecting Gotham, as well as dealing with the death of Batman. This was very recently released and I haven't played it so I can't tell you much.

I just want to add the following: I cannot guarantee that this is 100% accurate or up to date. I will do my best to update when we get new Jason content. I have not had any help with this and got the information from multiple other sources. Because I've had no help, no one has proof checked this so there might be some errors.

If you notice any errors or know of anything I've missed please let me know and I will fix the error as soon as I can!

Last Updated: 25 October 2023