#anti-ship moralization
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That’s the one thing I don’t understand - like it’s totally okay to dislike a ship and the reasons can be varied or as simple as you’d like. No one really needs a reason to dislike something I get that and that’s why the appropriate tags exist.
But like I’ve seen some of the things being thrown around both around BT and BE and I’m like okay guys shipping one thing over another doesnt make you better and being actively mean about it isn’t gonna change anything.
Why can’t we just enjoy what each fandom got? Buddie had some nice (if heartbreaking) scenes and BT had a cute date. I am new to 911 but like I’m surprised by how mean and almost like condescending some people have gotten and how quick they’re to call out one fandoms behavior without being like friend we are also doing that.
And I was in the kc fandom lol things got wild there.
Oooof sorry for the rant. Things just seem really intense since last night and I might have to do some unfollowing.
Assuming were talking the Klaroline kc fandom, I was in that one too :)
And maybe my memory isn't the best, but I don't remember things getting this vicious all the time either.
I do think fandom has changed in the sense that morality has been attached to shipping in such a weird way. Instead of shipping just being a personal preference, its become 'right' or 'wrong', or 'homophobic' or 'racist' or 'infantile' or 'predatory' to ship or not ship certain couples. And I just don't understand that.
I ship Buddie.
I'm pretty neutral on BuckTommy.
Why do I prefer one over the other? I almost always prefer ships with deep emotional bonds, who see something in each other no one else sees. I have never been a rarepair person, or a multishipper because my personal preference is for this deep emotional bond between characters.
That doesn't make my preference better or worse than anybody else's. Its just a personal preference. The same as I prefer the colour blue.
Other people might prefer couples with intense sexual chemistry, or who tease each other a lot, or who argue and have lots of passion, etc. Some people have a favourite character and ship them with everyone.
All of these are valid preferences.
Did I find the BuckTommy date in last night's episode a bit awkward? Yes. Was it because I'm a judgmental homophobic asshole? No. Daddy kink jokes wasn't my favourite thing, but I was fine with it. Two people in an adult relationship can flirt and and be kinky and that's totally fine by me. I have read and enjoyed way more explicit things in fanfic.
Personally (again just my opinion not a fact), I just found that the tone of the date and the joke fell flat as part of the episode overall. It was trying to break some of the tension and it didn't work for me.
Also, I tend to put more value on emotional connection in establishing relationships, so for me personally I would have preferred the conversation to stay in the more vulnerable place it started - Tommy offering Buck support due to Bobby's injury. If they had boned over having having difficult dads, or if Tommy had reached out and held Buck's hand to offer comfort, that would have been more meaningful to me, as opposed to the Daddy kink joke.
Again, nothing wrong with a Daddy kink. I too think Tommy calling Buck 'pretty boy' or 'good boy' in bed is hot.
Just kinky sex doesn't make for a meaningful relationship for me and I love Buck and I want him to have a deep meaningful relationship.
Since I haven't seen that with Tommy yet, I'm neutral on the ship.
I don't know why fandom has decided that who you ship or don't ship is some reflection of your moral values or lack thereof, but as someone who's fandom old, I find it weird and distasteful.
What people enjoy in fiction is not a reflection of who they are as a person at all times!
I don't generally block on unfollow people in fandom because I am very good at just letting things go and not spending too much time on things that upset me, but I have unfollowed people in the 911 fandom because of this overt judgement and moralization and (let's be honest) shit stirring, that some people engage in.
Fandom is supposed to be fun.
Let's make fandom fun again.
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you don’t have to be a Zutara shipper to dislike Ka/taang
Most of my irl friends are not shippers and the word “Zutara” does not exist in their vocabulary, but they think Ka/taang is weird. Because a prepubescent boy with a teenage girl is weird. He’s a child. She’s a teenager. Anyone who stops and thinks about what they were like at twelve vs fourteen knows those were some long years.
I started getting the ick for Ka/taang in The Headband and it reached its apex in Nightmares and Daydreams. I didn’t even start liking Zutara until The Southern Raiders. I liked Katara with Haru but the creators sank that ship with a strategically placed moustache
I am a ZK shipper so things like parallels and symbolism and Katara’s development as an adult matter to me. But even without all that, I didn’t like Ka/taang. Because before my analytical brain jumped in, my lizard brain said “ick.”
#honestly Haru’s moustache was the most effective ship sink I’ve ever seen#Jetara had to be sunk by a boulder to the chest but all Harutara needed was a few pixels above his lip#RIP Harutara you would’ve been a malewife x girlboss icon#anti kataang#Zutara#harutara#I think we need to bring back the word “icky” because it conveys a sentiment that doesn’t have moral baggage but is extremely descriptive
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lando liking hate comments on his instagram…brother put the phone down. take a deep breath. call a friend.
#send an angry email to your team demanding why they’ve hung you up to dry psychologically#and are perfectly happy to roll you out for morality points but don’t actually give a shit about your clearly deteriorating MH otherwise#don’t get me wrong I am a hater but also im human and I do. I do worry. especially since the evil orange team seems to be happy to profit#off his struggles and publicise them without giving him any tools to cope with a. mental health itself in an elite sport and b. having that#public#atheletes who talk about mental health have usually done a massive amount of work to be prepared for it#whereas mclaren seem perfectly happy to just ship lando off to the wolves#yes I may be a hater however I think lando is a product of his environment and it’s an environment that only cares ab their image not him#anti mclaren#lando Norris this once I defend you
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What Being a Zutara Shipper Means for ME!! (not YOU...necessarily)
Where is this idea that Zutara shippers are monolith coming from? I'm soooo bored with people thinking that there's any sort of requirement to shipping this couple. A lot of Zutara shippers ADORE Aang and Mai. I'd go as far as to say most like at least one of them. And that's cool. That's cool...
Hating Aang and Mai is fun, though. They are problematic in different, but oddly similar ways. Picking that apart is a completely valid way to enjoy the fandom. It's not required. No one should have to hate them to enjoy Zutara, but if you do hate them, hate them as loud as you want. They are terrible characters. They have abusive tendencies. Aang, as a character, absolutely perpetuates the Nice Guy myth that as long as you're persistent enough and not a Chan, eventually the girl who's never shown any interest in you will fall for you. Because you're "tH3 r3@L H3r0OOooO!" It doesn't matter that you've violated your crush's consent. Twice. Or that you go on to flirt with anti-miscegenation on a whim and only don't go through with it because it would effect you personally. No biggie!
I know it's a bit harder to hate on Mai. After all, Zuko did have the audacity to talk to her, his girlfriend about his feelings. He was SO out of line for that. How DARE he want support from her? Doesn't he know emotions and human connection are like garlic to emotional vampires like Mai??? Still, hating Mai is fun, so I'll do it anyway. I know it's so quirky, edgy goth of her to threaten him with death if he ever broke up with her again and then go on to not let him know her own father is trying to assassinate him, but I'm not a fan. Sorry 🤷🏾♀️
You know what, though? I found my people, as few as we may be. And I did it without telling people how they should or shouldn't feel about any characters. It's a good thing I figured out how tagging and blocking works. 🙃
#atla#zutara#anti aang#anti kataang#anti mai#anti maiko#no one's REQUIRED to hate any character to ship other characters#but it's fun#feel however you want#don't let anyone shame you for your opinions about fictional chracters#a...rebuttal#because i HATE it when someone thinks they have the authority to tell someone how to enjoy fandom#go moralize about irl politics#fandom is for everyone#even haters
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Spider-Verse hot take
If you ship Gwen and Miles, more power to you, you do you as long as youre not hurting(harassing) anyone
But MAN, it is so disappointing for both the story as a whole and for Gwen’s character that she “falls in love” with the first guy she befriends after swearing off friends ://
If you feel otherwise, more power to you! And with all due respect I don’t wanna hear about it! I came to tumblr to indulge further into my special interest for comfort, not to debate my feelings + opinions on it. I’m here for an echo-chamber that I can vent my feelings about these movies into and meet like-minded people! If you’re not like minded, again, all the power to you! Please just scroll and have a nice day💞
With that disclaimer out of the way, under the keep reading is where I expand upon the previous take.
ITSV sets them up as friends and presents wonderful heartfelt themes about love for friends, family, and especially for father figures. And ATSV continues that! But then also adds in a forced romance? And I mean this so respectfully because I hate arguing with people, but if I see one more person call them a “well written slow burn” (they always call it specifically that) I am going to LOSE MY MIND
Gwen does Miles SO inexplicably dirty in ways that she absolutely did not/had the ability not to! Ignoring her position/pressure in the Spider-Society!
“The creators always say how the romance between them is the heart of the story!!”
Well sorry but I really feel like they did that poorly. Apparently in ITSV they had four hours on the bus to talk and get to know each other? Would have been cool if that was expanded upon even a little! Or shown slightly more than it was cause I truly had no idea!
“Spider-Verse is about fixing the past mistakes of Spider-Man movies!”
Okay, could they have done that without doing the romance so poorly? Again, I wanna really like Gwen as much as other people do and just feel normal but I cannot get over how instantly it feels she goes from “I don’t do friends, but maybe now I do because of Miles!” to “I am deeply in love with Miles and am willing to risk so many things to see him” from what we’re shown. We’re not shown enough! And it makes me so mad! We deserve better!
If Gwen had fallen for a girl, I could forgive all of that because same lol, but nah, they can’t do that 🫠🫠
#across the spiderverse#atsv#spiderman#gwen stacy#miles morales#anti ghostflower#anti gwiles#being in the fandomspace again is so exhausting you guys#not everyone will like your ship
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I'm gonna froth at the mouth over this in the tags so bear with me but reason #1278038 why the way rick went about breaking up jiper was bad: rereading her povs in hoo where she gushes over jason feels like even more of an unreliable narrator queer girl comphet psychological horror story
#it's not that that isn't interesting (it's fascinating actually. especially for a daughter of aphrodite!!!)#it's that it Obviously wasn't his og intention. the ending of hoo is clearly intended to give a positive impression of jiper#this is worsened because shelper is wildly underdeveloped so it's like Dude what did you even do this for#literally just an afterthought. a footnote really. he said “ok here's your canon sapphic rep pls stop shipping theyna now” /j#she was a main character in one of the main couples in hoo it's so crazy? how can that happen. he would never do this to percabeth#can you imagine if percabeth broke up offscreen and 2 months later annabeth was with some complete rando and then percy died. girl what#it's the kind of setup/payoff issue that is difficult to put into words because he set up something (jiper and all its complex morality)#to ultimately be good because they're making the choice to love each other in the end (poorly executed but whatever I don't hate it)#and then in toa????? he just obliterates them for no payoff and creates a new impression of the most literal case of comphet imaginable? wh#toa is my absolute least favorite sorry#marginally related but if we can Be. Chill. and acknowledge that he originally wrote nico as crushing on annabeth#(we can argue all day about how Definite the crush was but come on. he did not put percy's speculation of it in there for no reason)#(and he obviously did not plan for nico to be gay back then you will literally never convince me of this)#(representation was NOT on his mind in the first 5 books that's why the cast is almost completely white except charles and ethan)#(the disposable poc who die tragically btw)#then I see a similarly confusing debacle but like. in the opposite way#something something sexuality is fluid you can be gay and feel confused about how u used to have a het crush but are still gay#nico says so himself to piper which is hilarious#it's just the lack of consistency and poor planning that I hate........... it is a ginormous pet peeve of mine and it's All Over His Books#piper already reads as having so much growing to do regarding her gender and sexuality because Somebody#(the man writing her) littered her pov with internalized misogyny/anti hyperfemininity and went nowhere with it#rr crit#percy jackson and the olympians#piper mclean#jason grace#pjo hoo toa#anti jiper#<- I PROMISE I am not actually anti-jiper I am very neutral about it as I am with all jason ships. they had cute moments#tagging that just in case#this comes from a place of deep love for the franchise and it's characters btw I have been a fan since I was 8
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helluva boss stans doing backflips to justify why Stolitz isn't rapey and starting to justify things that are Very Much Rapey irl is so fucking scary
#and this kinda shit is why antis can be scarier than proshippers#bc proshippers go 'this ship would be toxic irl but i love it bc its fiction'#antis go 'my fictional ships need to be morally correct so ill justify horrific things so my ship is ok to ship'#helluva boss critical
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Every proshipper in the Moral orel fandom are disgusting 💞💙💕❤️💜 ♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️
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Im sorry but what about pro-ship? ...You would also cheer people who create it?
And by pro-ship i mean incest, pedophilia, rape, abuse and glorifying all of these things.
I just want to know, no vitriol, no hate.
Okay, so, this is a MASSIVE topic and my thoughts are complex. So, just for the purpose of answering this ask, I'm gonna focus on the biggy here - fictional depictions of pedophilia.
Under a cut because this got long!
I don't wanna read anything that glorifies fictional child sexual abuse in a completely played-straight way. That's a big ol' nope.
But there is a world of difference between depiction and glorification. And I don't think people writing about a horrific situation have to constantly shove it down your throat that Pedophilia Is Bad? This sort of thinking leads to incredibly cringey moralistic fiction that is, frankly, dull.
I love dark fiction! I love gothic novels, and horror, which include rape and incest and abuse and child sexual abuse and all sorts - not all of which is demonised! Some of which is wholeheartedly glorified in order to disgust you!
Some content is meant to disturb you and gross you out and make you look at your own internal 'ick' reactions! Or it's designed to give you the 'fascinated horror' people often get from looking at a car crash with multiple fatalities. That sense of intrigue when faced with taboos is a natural part of the human experience. So long as it is only engaged with in a fictional setting, it's a helluva lot less harmful than rubbernecking out the window of your car at a crash site and causing another accident.
Playing with people's disgust can be very interesting and fun, from a writerly perspective! You can create all sorts of really disturbing horror for the precise purpose of making your audience uncomfortable, and no one is actually being hurt!
Art isn't just about happy emotions, y'know? Lolita isn't pro-child-sexual-abuse despite being written from the perspective of a pedophile, and I'd wager that very, very few people who paid to watch The Human Centipede actually have a scat fetish. They're drawn in by their disgust and revulsion - like many people are to darkfic!
Now, if someone is legitimately creating content that seems to be glorifying fictional child sexual abuse, I won't interact with them for personal trigger reasons. But at the end of the day.... I don't know their story? I don't know why they're doing that.
What I know is: when I went through the worst, most traumatic experiences in my life (which, no, I will not be discussing further x) reading about the same horrible stuff happening to my blorbos legit helped. And not just the stuff where it was depicted realistically, as a horrible traumatic experience, but the stuff where it was 'glorified' too, because it made me feel less alone and awful for having lived in that situation and for having told myself it was normal and healthy.
When you're in a situation like that, sometimes you legitimately cannot tell you are in deep shit. Fics that try to point out that you are in deep shit, invariably feel like they're preaching. A balance of fics that try to point out that, y'know, Abuse And Pedophilia Are Bad - delivered alongside fics that depict that sort of relationshp as ay-okay, actually helped me come to terms with some of the shit in my life. Reading both sorts of fic together, it didn't feel like I was being constantly told I was a Victim.
I think, at the end of the day, fiction affects reality. Just look at propaganda and the affects of white supremacy and homophobia on Western Canon! But it's not a 1:1 impact.
It's more important to encourage readers to use critical thinking when engaging with fiction, than it is to harass writers who have created content that disgusts you.
You don't know why they're creating that content, and you don't know how many people it's helped - and, so long as it's properly tagged, people who need to avoid that content due to triggers can do so!
Obligatory: if someone uses a fic with an underage pairing to groom someone, that is incredibly fucked up and disgusting. But literally anything can be used to groom kids, sadly. You could point at literally anything, and at some point, it will have been used to further a child's horrific and very real abuse.
Overall, if you actually give a shit about protecting kids, I think there are far more important things to focus on. Such as:
Educating communities about how the vast majority of child sexual abuse comes from close family friends and family members, not strangers sending kids fanfic on the internet.
Educating communities about how the word 'pedophile' has been purposefully corrupted by right wingers to demonize completely innocent queer people because think of the children. This isn't to say there isn't a very real problem with child sexual exploitation & abuse, but we should perhaps be a little wary about throwing around a word grounded in serious reality to refer to fictional scenarios, and enforcing the very Right-Wing idea that 'thinking about [x] act is the same as doing [x] act'.
Focusing on children themselves. We should support good sex & relationship education, so children know their bodies and understand appropriate cultural norms. We should educate children about their rights, and give children broader community support structures so that they feel empowered to disclose abuse. Offering time or money to shelters is a great way to actually support survivors.
Ensuring there are safe and free refuges for children who are being abused IRL, places where they can stay away from family & other potential abusers - i.e., public libraries, community centres, etc. - or at least know there are other witnesses. Volunteering at your local library and donating can genuinely make a difference to abused kids - and all kids in general!
Dismantling cultures of silence around abuse in your personal community. Do not just tell the women in the group to avoid Joe because he has wandering hands. Tell Joe that his behaviour is inappropriate and will no longer be tolerated.
TL;DR - personally, please keep any/all sexual content involving fictional underage people FAR away from me, and do not send me any rape or abuse scenarios (unless we're brainstorming whump as friends, in which case, you can just gimme a warning).
But I am also against harassing artists and creators unless they are harming real children in measurable ways.
#I'm more pro-ship than anti-ship I guess and I am always anti-harrassment#which is what some folks say 'pro-ship' means#but I have seen other definitions from self-proclaimed pro-ship people that I certainly do not agree with#and personally I find anything involving RPF sits in a very dubious morally gray space for me#including completely healthy fluff with adult actors. just. nope. those are real people not characters#adult/adult rpf is more immoral to me than adult/child fictional fic - though I wouldn't read either personally#but that's a very ymmv thing and I understand that a lot of folks disagree#which also goes to show that everyone's limits of what is 'indefensible' are subtly different!#IN SHORT. NUANCE.
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I'm fighting tooth and nail to not make a long, salty post, but let me just say that those of you saying "the only thing we did was enjoy a canon ship," first of all you know you're lying, and second of all if you're gonna act like everyone who ships buddie are responsible for everything every single person in that group did, tell me why I shouldn't hold you responsible for everything every single bucktommy shipper did.
#i am TIRED OF THIS#if you're really here just to enjoy your ship then do that! I see many people who are capable of doing so!#but those of you acting like you're morally superior for “choosing the canon ship” well. i can't stand you! :) you are in fact the baddies#anti bucktommy#<- and i believe this is the one and only time that tag will be used on my blog#because i truly simply don't care about him but i can't STAND his fans
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this might come as a surprise to some people ... but the question is not are you "pro-ship", "ship neutral", or "anti-ship" ...
the real question is do you support artistic freedom or do you reject it in favor of compliance to the standards of mob mentality?
#anti censorship#anti callout culture#anti cancel culture#proship discourse#anti discourse#also 'ship neutral' doesn't make sense lmao#like if you're genuinely calling yourself this you've completely missed the starting point of this whole moral argument.#ambers.txt
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rinezha is zutara for deranged people
#funny enough rinezha is kinda what antis try to paint zutara as to make the ship look amoral#bitch when did i said i had morals?#now fire person and water person please kiss eachother#i would kill and/or die for those ships#zutara#rinezha
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jason todd has so many underrated canon love interests. essence, isabel, artemis, and rose are all characters i love with him. like those are good ships. why is everyone ignoring them?
#look. i have Opinions on this matter.#i know that fandoms have incurable mlm fetishization disease which is why jayroy is so much more popular than these ships#and i like jayroy but. come on. jayrose solos.#but fr like 😭 ik we all hate whatever he had going on with babs and kori because what the fuck (i hate dc writers)#but jay/essence was a good ship!! it would have added more focus onto who jason is outside of being a vigilante but still being a warrior#because its p much canon that he has magical affinities that dc pretty much ignores now#and isabel! jay/isabel was such a good ship too for showing the more civilian view of the red hood and who jason was as a civilian#jayrose is my personal fav solely because they're one of the few duos we've seen as good friends and i just love their interactions#and rose has that anti-hero (?) potential right. i think jayrose is a good ship for who jason would be as a vigilante outside gotham#ik i'm focusing on jason more than the love interests when i talk about why these ships are so interesting but rn that's just because i'm#trying to figure out why these ships are so ignored among jason fans in favour of ships like jayroy or jaykori or jaybabs or batc*st#because imo these have so much more potential than those ones :/#i forgot to speak on jaytemis. i love jaytemis because i think jason deserves a woman that can yeet his 6 foot brick wall body with ease-#but more than that it really would have been a very fun idea to explore the amazonians' moralities and politics more#because jay and artemis were supposed to parallel bruce and diana. i just think there was again potential there for jason to break off from#the batfamily#yk?#limebug's original posts#jason todd#rose wilson#artemis of bana mighdall#isabel ardila#essence#sorry to any jayroy shippers that might see this even tho i didnt individually tag jayroy. i'm one of you i promise i'm a multishipper#if anyone wants to discuss this my dms and askbox are OPEN
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Aang/Kataang stan: The ONLY reason every Zutara/Zukka shipper ships it is because Zuko is hot.
Really? That's like me saying every Kataang shipper is an Aang self insert that wanted in Katara's pants or that every Kataang shipper ships it because Aang is their only hope of getting with that 'friend' they fuck zoned.
Zutara/Zukka - and pretty much every alt or canon ship - is liked for a myriad of reasons. Yet we keep seeing Zutara/Zukka shippers being painted with broad strokes such as these.
Why?
Because generalizing the entirety of Zutara/Zukka shippers and distilling their reason for liking a ship down to the shallowest reasons possible - like only liking it because they think a character is hot - is a half assed way to justify hating/harassing them.
Kataang and Aang stans are famous for telling alt shippers why they ship their non canon ship and they always seem to pick reasons they can use to shame and blame a shipper on a personal level (gotta say, colonizer fetish has been the most hilarious thing I've heard so far)
By assigning these 'baser' and 'shallow' reasons like lusting after a cartoon character as 'the only reason they ship it' they artificially award themselves the intellectual and moral highground. In doing this they give themselves the ok to spew some incredibly offensive things that are often misogynistic and at times even racist.
Like this new trend of lumping Zutara shippers in with genocide apologists - a disgustingly repulsive new low, even for Kataang shippers.
#anti aang stans#anti kataang stans#anti kataang#atla alt ships#anti anti zutara#zutara#zukka#and even if they like it simply because it's aesthetically pleasing so fucking what?#kataang shippers trying to stay relevant#kataang stans playing fandom morality police again#your inability to find your leading lad attractive enough for the leading lass is a personal problem best kept to yourself
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the way that (usually male) k//ataang shippers obsess over aang’s height… why are you so concerned about zutara shippers supposedly self-inserting like please the call is coming from inside the house
#today i encountered three different posts talking about how they can’t wait for aang’s actor to grow taller than katara 💀#zutara#anti kataang#atla fandom critical#“zk shippers would ship k/ataang if he was taller” I assure you none of us care about his height because he’s 12… which is the actual issue#my post#not to mention that all shipping involves some degree of self insertion since there’s something about the dynamic that you personally enjoy#so moralizing yourself as “above” self inserting while being a hardcore shipper yourself is just hypocritical
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You ever watch something mainstream and internally monologue to antis like "You know this is RPF? You know RPF is mainstream and has been for a long time?"
#some pro-shippers/pro-fiction have this blind spot as well#profiction#pro fiction#pro-fiction#pro ship#pro shipping#proshipping#pro-ship#pro-shipping#proship#anti anti#pro rpf#pro-rpf#there's rpf subcultures but rpf very much is mainsteam#just like all the other themes in fiction that have subcultures but also feature in the mainstream#and even some pro-shippers/pro-fics fall into the anti tactic of targeting and opposing the subcultures#while ignoring the mainstream that has wider influence#if you're morally against it then be consistent#i still won't agree with you but don't be a hypocrite
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