#anti laena stans

[drakaripykiros130ac]

I am so beyond sick of having to read how much certain stans romanticize Daemon’s relationship with Laena, and discredit his entire relationship with Rhaenyra, all because of a simple sentence they read about some singers singing whatever bullshit.

Daemon Targaryen didn’t fall head over heels for Laena, and you don’t even have to read the next passage in the book to know that.

The short version of the truth is this: he wanted Rhaenyra. He couldn’t have her, so he moved on to the next best thing. Laena was the only other Valyrian bride available and heiress to the great Velaryon fortune. She was a catch, and she didn’t have much competition in Daemon’s eyes, so he went for it. Daemon never even saw Laena as an option until after Rhaenyra was denied him. Get it?

As for comparing Daemon’s two marriage lives and saying that he was the happiest with Laena: it wasn’t Laena that made him happy. It was the life away from Court and away from all the drama. And let’s not forget that there were three in this “happy marriage”. Rhaenyra was constantly visiting Driftmark. Yes, Laena was her best friend but let’s be real here. She was going over there for Daemon.

Laena was never a target for the maesters because she was not a contender to the throne and so, of course, there was no point in saying anything bad about her or about her marriage life. She was a side character and not of much importance.

Of course Rhaenyra’s marriage to Daemon became tumultuous. They were fighting a war. War changed them both. Had things been different, they would have spent many happy years together on Dragonstone, flying Syrax and Caraxes all throughout the day and having sex throughout the night. I’m pretty sure they couldn’t get enough of each other, especially after how long they waited to finally get together. There’s a very good chance Rhaenyra was already pregnant with Aegon by the time they got married.

Daemon didn’t even wait the proper mourning period after Laena died, before he remarried.

It’s pretty clear that Rhaenyra was it for Daemon from the start. She was the one he wanted and he was determined to have her one way or another.

I mean, GRRM himself admitted that he created Daemon because he couldn’t find the right husband for Rhaenyra. Daemon was made for Rhaenyra. They’re the it pairing of the story. Any others who came and went in their lives were obstacles.

Had Daemon received a raven from Viserys, giving him Rhaenyra’s hand in marriage, do you honestly believe he would have gone through with that duel? He would have abandoned Laena right then and there, and flown back to King’s Landing to marry Rhaenyra.

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

Look at this....☠️ https://www.tumblr.com/bohemian-nights/737003196544958464/fuck-rhaenyra-fuck-the-writers-with-this-sapphic?source=share

Fucking hell.

First off: I find it interesting the anon doesn't acknowledge that Laena x Daemon is also incest. Sure, she's not his niece, but she is still related to him. They love projecting their insecurities about their ship onto daemyra.

Second: yeah, HoTD choosing to make the Velaryons black then sidelining them massively is shitty and, sure, could be interpreted as racist. However, how is that Rhaenyra's fault? She didn't make Daemon marry Laena when he couldn't have her neither did she kill Laena. Condal and Hess chose to write out Laena's relevance (which already wasn't much outside of being Daemon's wife and Baela and Rhaena's mother) in order to give Alicent more screen time. But again, that's neith Rhaenyra's nor Emma D'Arcy's fault, stop blaming them (also Emma is good at playing Rhaenyra as she is written, the only issues are the writing, which aren't their fault). Op also chose to ignore the fact that Daemon actually is confirmed by GRRM himself to have loved Rhaenyra the most.

Moving on, once again the Rhaenyra antis are bringing up how Rhaenyra isn't "feminist". Literally no one in F&B is feminist by our modern definition. Visenya and Rhaenys are probably the closest, and even then, they aren't writing feminist manifestos (which apparently Rhaenyra is expected to for some reason). Alysanne, the most proactive queen regent, still enforced arranged marriages on her daughters and granddaughters. Rhaenys didn't advocate for Laena's right of succession in the book and in the show refused to support Rhaenyra long before Laenor's "death". Her antis hold Rhaenyra to unfair and unrealistic standards while making excuses for or ignoring other characters who don't meet them.

In that same vein, I still can't get over how Rhaenyra antis will say that TG aren't the conservative group. They say Rhaenyra isn't a feminist and that TG, the ones who are obsessed with male primogeniture and believe being gay, a sexually liberated woman, a child born out of wedlock, or not adhering to the equivalent of the Catholic Church make someone subhuman are the "progressive" group. It's delusion at its finest. Alicent and the greens are misogynistic and, because of them, women's rights in Westeros ended up more repressed than ever.

The fact that the op says that Visenya and Queen Rhaena are acceptable shows they have no understanding for TG or F&B. First off, TG would never support either woman. Visenya was hated by the Faith and most of the Lord's of Westeros, she was a warrior accused of witchcraft and dared to interfere with the misogynistic customs alongside Rhaenys. Rhaena was gay, something she wasn't allowed to live fully because the Targaryens chose to conform to Westerosi ideals. She was also robbed of her inheritance, even Jaehaerys acknowledged that Rhaena was the rightful heir, just as Aegon acknowledged Rhaenyra was.

As for the racist allegations, those come exclusively from Mushroom, someone who is far from a reliable source. Mushroom invented an entire woman to try to add "spice" to Jacaerys' story: Sara Snow. A woman of whom there is no record of, even though she was raised in Winterfell and supposedly married Jace. If Mushroom is willing to make up a whole ass woman to make the story more dramatic, why should we trust anything he says?

Yes, Rhaenyra ordered Nettles' execution, but that was because of her rumored relationship with Daemon and Rhaenyra's paranoia which had grown massively since Hugh Hammer and Ulf White's betrayal. Was it just? No. Was it racially motivated? According to Mushroom, maybe, but looking at Rhaenyra's character, it doesn't make sense.

Moving on, what exactly does op mean by "she's done too many things to claim she's been wrongly framed by the narrative"? By the time Nettles comes along, Rhaenyra hasn't done much that could be considered reprehensible. Op seems to have an issue with Vaemond's death, which Rhaenyra did order in the book. They seem to think that Vaemond "rightfully called her out" and was wrongfully killed.

She ordered Vaemond's execution after he declared her sons bastards in order to challenge Corlys' decision regarding succession. Keep in mind, Vaemond in the book is Corlys' nephew, not his brother, which moves him even farther down the line of succession. Vaemond not only was putting Rhaenyra and her sons in danger but was also trying to usurp all of Corlys' line, including Baela and Rhaena, who op seems to like a lot.

Yeah Rhaenyra is much harsher in F&B, but that hardly makes her evil and irredeemable. Queens Visenya and Rhaena were both harsh and even cruel sometimes, yet op doesn't think they're irredeemable monsters.

I do agree with op's anger over the sidelining of the Velaryons, as I said earlier, but taking it out on Rhaenyra is completely uncalled for. Rhaenyra wasn't a monster, anyone who believes that has frighteningly little reading comprehension. Rhaenyra's reign would have greatly helped women's standings in Westeros and pushed along gender equality. Ignoring that fact and blatantly saying the greens aren't supporting the repressive patriarchy is delusional and idiotic. The greens' actions were damaging in every way. Vaemond was far from an innocent victim, he was power hungry and misogynistic in both the show and the book. Keep your angry focused on the right people, don't take it out on a woman who had her whole life destroyed by the patriarchy.

[an3-lim]

Laena's and poly fans are so funny 😂 She is an insignificant character. Daemon and Rhaenyra dgaf about her . They litteraly have a sex after her death in both book canon and hotd canon 😭

Why are we still having discussions about her? 💀

[uchiha-no-hime]

Confession, I only support the Daemyra. For me, any couple that can be added makes me uncomfortable.

So yeah, I don't root for Leonor, Harwin and Laena as much as I should because I wanted Daemon and Rhaenyra together without as many problems.

For me Daemyra are soulmates

And I really don't give a shit about Velaryon and Harwin as long as we have Daemon and Rhaenyra together from the beginning the way they should have been

[darklinaforever]

It's at this point that fans of Laena and Daemon are disturbed :

They purposely come to pollute Daemyra space to spread their bullshit.

They willfully ignore that Daemon has always loved Rhaenyra since childhood.

That she is the first woman he wanted to marry, giving her a long short of 6 months before asking for her hand.

They do not know that the Daemyra marriage was definitely not a political movement, unlike the marriage with Laena which is very obvious on this point, in the text itself.

Rhaenyra has been with these 2 (Daemon and Laena) for 3 years out of their 5 year marriage.

No sooner had Laena died than Daemyra renewed their past relationship.

There is no real hard evidence for the stories with Mysaria and Nettles. Especially Nettles. (And I don't believe in any of them)

And no. Daemon never called Rhaenyra a whore. It was literally Mysaria he insulted.

Suffice to say that soon, there will also be an article on this subject that I will do because there is ENOUGH of this delirium around Laena !

[jacaela]

laena stans keep hating baby visenya because of some artists like drawing her is exhausting

[sydalelys01]

Hello guys, I share this invitation from discord, it is a space where you can talk about daemyra but only about them as a couple if you like them with others, unfortunately it is not the right place for you, if you like the daemyra and their biological children, this It is the safe space for you 🤩

Another clarification is a server where they only talk about the book canon, if you also hate the terrible HBO adaptation you are welcome 🥰

[apaaa0]

Laena stans are detached from reality and do not understand what they read. They would rather believe in lies than accept the fact that GRRM created Laena only as an obstacle in the way of Daemon and Rheanyra. Daemon would not have married Laena if Viserys had allowed him to marry Rheanyra. It's funny that even Ryan Condal and Sara Hess , who clearly prefer the green team and try to show the black team members in a bad light, understand Daemon's and Laena's relationship better than those who are "fans of these characters."

Some of you really read the Dance (or pretend you did idk), made up a whole lot of headcanons and twisted the narrative into somehow "Daemon and Laena were the love story, not Daemon and Rhaenyra", you actually believed that nonsense... and then you get mad as hell when the show does not follow your nonsensical hcs in this regard and portrays the actual great love story of it all.

[watcherintheweyr]

'Rhaenyra is a bad mom bc she knowingly gave birth to bastards and she knew how much danger they'd be in!!!!'

1. She had no way of knowing those babies wouldn't pop out looking exactly like her, beforehand. And unfortunately she couldn't stop at Jace. The throne needed an heir. Driftmark needed an heir. And a spare was needed as well, given the sheer rate of Targaryen children dying untimely deaths.

2. She had to provide heirs to the throne, and to Driftmark. If she hadn't, society wouldn't have blamed Laenor, they would have blamed her- which makes her position even more unstable, bc then she 'can't fulfill a woman's duty' so why would men think her 'able' to fill a 'man's role' by ruling the kingdom? And she and Laenor tried. He was either unable (meaning infertile or impotent, or unable to get it up), or unwilling. (And they did try. We dont know what they tried but Rhaenyra is shown to be clever in the show so honestly i have no doubt she attempted what Margaery suggested with Renly.) Laenor was in on the entire thing. He was aware of every part of this. He wasn't duped, he wasn't cuckholded- it was a plan greenlit by him, bc this way he and Rhaenyra would both have their heirs and a family. This cannot in any way shape or form be compared to Cersei cuckholding Robert (fuck Robert Baratheon tho), seeing as Robert was **not** at all aware that his children weren't his, and wouldn't have been OK with that.

Either way- she chose not to maritally r*pe her husband and put him through more trauma after it was clear their attempts weren't working. Yall are always so upset for Alicent (rightfully so, bc show!alicent was maritally raped, even if it wasn't considered as such in that time), but you... WANT Rhaenyra to do that to Laenor? Hello???

[And no. Rhaenyra did NOT rape or coerce Criston Cole. The actors, writers, and directors have all stated their sex was consensual and 'an act of love.' It was Rhaenyra going to someone she felt close to and trusted after feeling abandoned and unwanted and betrayed. In that scene you literally watch, as after Cole tells Rhaenyra to stop undressing herself, she moves aside so she isn't blocking his way to the door. The director states that the moment they show Cole folding and setting down his cloak was him choosing his desire over his oaths. And Criston Cole has known Rhaenyra since she was 14. He knew damn well the sort of person she was- and she was not the person who would have harmed him for saying no. She was an intoxicated and emotionally vulnerable 19 year old- Criston was in his late 20s to early 30s. And it's explicitly stated in ep.9 that the ONLY person a Kingsguard cannot refuse is the king. In ep.7 Criston disobeys a direct order from Alicent when she wants him to mutilate Lucerys. Criston Cole was not assaulted. Stop trying to assign Aegon's sins to Rhaenyra so that you can feel better for supporting him.]

3. In the books, the rumors of their bastardry at large halted when all of Rhaenyra's boys' cradle eggs hatched. The ONLY people who continued to try and raise issue were the core green faction. But the realm at large *did not give a fuck* why? Because every actually relevant party claimed those boys. Repeatedly and without flinching. Laenor claimed and loved those boys even face to face with Alicent's bullshit. Corlys claimed and love those boys- he was proud of them, and it's been stated by the actor in the show that Luke was his favorite- that given the... events of ep.10, Corlys will be out for blood. And Viserys repeatedly insisted upon their legitimacy- because Laenor and Corlys claimed them, because he knew that by forcing Rhaenyra to marry Laenor in order to repair the damage his insults caused House Velaryon, that he had backed her into a corner.

Rhaenyras boys are remembered to history as Velaryon. Even **Green supporters** noted that they were good, capable, intelligent, and **worthy** princes. That their deaths were unfortunate *for the realm.*

Legally, those boys are legitimate. They cannot be proven illegitimate without Laenor renouncing them, and he never did. Furthermore, trying to declare children illegitimate due to their appearance is a stupid, dangerous precedent. The fact that it's people who have no ties to House Velaryon pushing these rumors and pushing for disinheritance makes it even worse, because they're meddling in the succession of a House that *is not theirs.* if that became a standard, imagine the feuds and conflicts that would erupt- lords pushing for the children of rivals to be declared illegitimate all for the sake of trying to grasp and steal land, power, and influence as a norm? The realm would tear itself apart. Not to mention the sheer danger that would place women in, in Westeros.

Furthermore, even whilst usurping her, even while calling her children bastards, the Greens also imply Laenor's homosexuality was inherited by the Velaryon princes- that they would use Rhaenyra's 'promiscuity' and Laenor's 'predilections' to turn the Red Keep into a brothel- ironic, considering that's more what Aegon would've done. So even while claiming that Rhaenyras children are bastards that shouldn't inherit, they try to state that what the boys inherit or learn from Laenor makes them unfit for the throne. They can't keep their own damn story straight- because their usurpation was never about what is moral, what is right, or the greater good. It was about greed. Power. Sexism.

It doesn't matter what those boys looked like, especially seeing as Rhaenys had dark hair in the books. What matters is that Corlys and Laenor and Viserys claimed them and declared them legitimate, and that they **never** deviated from that.

As for Vaemond, he was a second son. And he waited until Corlys and Viserys were dying and too ill to stop him to make a grasp for power. Youre not supposed to look at that and feel hes in the right. Youre supposed to look at that and see a man consumed by greed, and literally trying to bury Corlys' will and intentions before the man is even in a grave. He was NEVER Corlys' heir- he just wanted power. It wasn't about his House, or their legacy, it was about him.

(And before yall start shit about Rhaenyras boys stealing Laena's girls' inheritance... Rhaena and Baela are *TARGARYEN*. Not Velaryon. Their claim was to the throne or to any holdings in Daemon's name. NOT to Driftmark.)

Rhaenyras boys being betrothed to Rhaena and Baela tied up any issue of 'Velaryon blood.' Baela would have been queen consort of the seven kingdoms at Jace's side, and they very clearly adored one another in book and show. Rhaena would have been Lady of the Tides- which she never would have had a chance for, without Rhaenyra (and Laena) making those betrothals. She and Luke were also canonically very close- and in show she's very encouraging of him whenever he looks nervous or uncertain. They had a bond.

Rhaenyra stole nothing. She gave those girls more. And she loved them- they were the only daughters she got to have, seeing as the Greens treachery caused the early death of baby Visenya. If she hadn't loved them, she wouldn't have trusted Rhaena to look after Joffrey or give her Morning's egg from Syrax. She wouldn't have immediately invited both girls to the table when she was queen, which is something her father did not do for her until much, much later. He allowed Rhaenyra's voice to be silenced too often when she was first made heir. Rhaenyra did not repeat that hurt to her girls or her boys.

Anyways, moving on.

You lot do also remember that Rhaenyra herself has Velaryon blood, right? Jaehaerys I's mother was Alyssa Velaryon. Aegon, Rhaenys, and Visenya the Conquerors' mother was Valaena Velaryon. It's not immediate, but there *is* Velaryon blood through *all* of Rhaenyras boys.

Ultimately, Rhaenyras boys were only in danger because of the core Green faction usurping the throne. If they hadnt- no succession crisis or rebellion could have truly threatened Rhaenyras boys- because none of them would have had dragons. All of Rhaenyras children loved one another- her sons by Daemon would not have turned on her sons with Laenor (and Harwin). They were a true, loving family- possibly one of the healthiest and most close knit one House Targaryen ever boasted.

And another thing... 'her having babies with Harwin was stupid, she should have picked someone Valyrian!'

Here's the thing. Rhaenyra had to be careful as hell choosing who would father her and Laenor's heirs. She had to choose someone who was physically close, and who could be trusted. Someone who wouldn't try to publicly claim those boys in boast or jealousy. Someone who would keep their mouth shut and had no ambition of their own in regards to the throne. Do you really think Vaemond Velaryon (as I see him suggested a lot) would've kept his mouth shut? That he wouldn't have tried to use this to blackmail Rhaenyra and Laenor for more power and status? Do you think Rhaenys would have ever fought for or supported Rhaenyra if Rhaenyra had tried to have Corlys sire her children? And flying to see Daemon in Pentos and having a purely Valyrian child 9 months later would have made things look even more suspect.

Furthermore... she chose someone who cared for her deeply. Who clearly had a positive relationship with Laenor. She chose someone so she wouldn't have to traumatize herself- she took power over her body in a way almost no Westerosi woman has ever been able to. They were a family unit- Rhaenyra, Laenor, and Harwin. Those children were loved and cherished by two fathers and their mother. They were raised never doubting their mothers love, nor their father's- either father. They were raised and educated to be true, good princes of the realm.

Rhaenyra fought like hell for her children. She was an incredible mother. Yall just believe everything the Green faction says without looking at it critically, and that's unfortunate as hell.

[ladydreamfyyreee]

𝐈𝐭 𝐝𝐢𝐬𝐠𝐮𝐬𝐭𝐬 𝐦𝐞.

[theflorasdiary]

Me to the Velaryons about their relationship with Rhaenyra:

Only caring about them when your bastard son “legitimacy” is in danger,betrothing the twins to her bastards only for her own selfish reasons.Having Sex at Laena funeral with her husband and “killing” yours so that you could marry your pedo uncle the next day.Having Vaemond killed for saying the truth.Not sending her son out to patrol because is dangerous but sending Baela without problems,reducing Rhaena as a mere consort first and now as a babysitter.

You go RhaeRhae,you will make an amazing Queen that always listen and care for everyone🥰

[drakaripykiros130ac]

How tired I am to hear about how “romantic” and so “in love” Daemon must have been to fight that duel for Laena’s hand. Those same people are the ones who claim that Daemon never loved Rhaenyra. Seriously???

The truth is that Daemon didn’t fight that duel for Laena. He fought it for himself.

After over a decade of marriage to an Andal woman he despised, Daemon was finally free. He was mid-thirties and had the chance to take what he had always wanted: a Valyrian spouse.

The main reason why Daemon has always hated Rhea so much was because he was the only grandchild of Jaehaerys and Alysanne who was stuck with an Andal wife for the sake of an unnecessary alliance with the Vale (Viserys already consolidated that through his marriage to Aemma. She was a Targaryen by blood and an Arryn as well - two birds, one stone).

Daemon has always seen himself as the new Conqueror, so to speak, and because of his talents, he has always believed that he deserves a Valyrian wife, and Valyrian children.

Rhaenyra was the only woman Daemon desired for himself. She ticked all the boxes: Valyrian, Targaryen Princess, a dragon rider, the most beautiful girl in the Realm. And above all that, they had always been enamored with one another, their personalities matched and they greatly enjoyed each other’s company. Daemon wanted her, and with Rhea gone, he was determined to have her as the ideal wife he had always dreamed of.

Unfortunately, regardless of how much Rhaenyra herself wanted Daemon, Viserys denied them their long desired union.

With Rhaenyra set to marry Laenor, Daemon, as much as he wanted her, didn’t really have the time to wait around for her to become available again. He had an opportunity here to make his own choices. His dreaded wife was dead, and he was mid-thirties. He had no children and no fortune of his own. He couldn’t wait.

So, he moved on to the next best thing, the only other available Valyrian girl in Westeros, Laena Velaryon. She was beautiful, a dragon rider, Valyrian and heiress to the great Velaryon fortune.

Laena represented the perfect solution to all of Daemon’s problems. He could finally have a Valyrian wife (though not the one he initially wanted) who could give him Valyrian children, as well as a fortune he needed, because as a second son, he only had Caraxes and Dark Sister to his name. And there’s a bonus there as well: Laena was the sister of Rhaenyra’s husband, which would give Daemon access to Rhaenyra and an excuse to remain close to her.

So that duel he fought with the Braavosi lord was not for Laena, but for himself, to secure his future. He was not getting any younger, he wanted children and a fortune of his own. He didn’t fight that duel because he was in love with Laena. He fought it because this was his only chance to get a wife of his choosing, the only remaining Valyrian girl who fit his criteria.

Laena was his Rhaenyra replacement. Proof of that is how he married Rhaenyra not long after she was gone. He did care for her, I am sure, but he never truly loved her as he did Rhaenyra.

Seriously, if during the duel, word came that Rhaenyra was once again available and wanted him for a husband, Daemon would have instantly dropped that sword, got on Caraxes, and left Laena and the Braavosi lord with their mouths hanging open.

[an3-lim]

Laena's fans are truly truly pathetic. Like, guys, yours head canon about her and her marriage to Daemon is not canon! Selectively choosing f&b theories that fit your narrative is not objective truth. Learn to tell the difference!

[uchiha-no-hime]

HOTD Unpopular opinion:

Laena been a rider of Vhagar has no relevance because it does not contribute anything to the story 🤷🏻‍♀️ she did nothing notable and the dragon replaced her in record time, she claimed her at 12 years old... it's fine The girl is very brave, but she is still not something important or decisive because she is a very secondary character, nor can she be considered part of any team because she had been dead for years when the Dance of Dragons occurred.

When your greatest contribution as a Vaghar rider is doing exhibitions in Essos to entertain people, well...there's not much more to say.

Her role as mother of the twins who were important characters in dance is also highlighted (I buy that Baela had a role, but Rhaena? not to much) but in my humble opinion...what difference does it make? That doesn't make her essential or interesting to explore her character, there are many characters who are parents of *someone* and have nothing more to add.

I have nothing against her character but I think that most of what I read about her on social media is headcanon without evidence. It's okay to have headcanon, I have lots of them and these types of characters about whom you know 2 things, well , give rise to having them. It's the only way to have something substantial from them.

But assuming things for which there is no evidence and judging people for disagreeing doesn't seem right to me.

We live in the era of highlighting secondary characters in which people project themselves and get offended if we do not agree with them. In fact, exactly the same thing happens with Harwin Strong; He has few personality, we only got a glimpse of him in the show and that was it

[darklinaforever]

It's hilarious how you Daemyra shippers would completely ignore the fact that Rhaenyra seduced Daemon when he was mourning Laena. He loved his wife. And that fat bitch seduced him in a vulnerable moment, that's dubious consent. She basically raped him.

It's hilarous how desperate you are to spend your time and energy talking about a ship you hate, and sending messages whose sole purpose is to piss people off.

It's hilarous how you, a fan of Laena and her couple with Daemon, are ready to invent anything to enhance your minor ship against the one in the center and main story : Daemyra.

It's hilarous how much you hate Rhaenyra and don't even bother to hide it. Seriously, what did she do to you ? Kill your dog ?

Seriously, the bullshit you need to hear right now. Breaking news : Rhaenyra raped Daemon !

But yes, of course... And then what else ?! Go get treatment !

[fatum679]

A son for a son. Laenor shall be avenged!

What about Laenor? Where is "son for son" for him? Rhaenys and Corlys, have you forgotten your child? You support the killers of your kid? lmao

Everyone "forgot" about him. Also, I'm sure he was killed off-screen in the TV show.

Rhaenys talks about her daughter, but not her son. lmfao

Rhaenyra, have you forgotten about the murder of "this son"?

#anti comparing Helaena with Rhaenyra