daenerys-apolog1st

[daenerys-apolog1st]

I don't like Aegon as a person whatsoever* but I still can't get over the fact that Alicent---someone who is constantly paraded by TG as someone who can do no wrong bc she's "protecting her kids" and "doing her duty as a mother"---literally forced him onto the throne after he told her point blank that he didn't want it and literally tried to run away from his own coronation, which then started a war that literally led to thousands (including members of her own family) dying...

...and then she offered his and Aemond's heads to Rhaenyra on a silver platter to cover her own ass after SHE (along with Otto) was the one who put them in their situations in the first place.

Don't get me wrong, I have 0 sympathy for Aegon---he was a rapist long before he was a usurper and, bad situation or not, that's not excusable---but I still think it's absolutely insane that Alicent forced him onto the throne and is now making him pay the price in blood for her own mistakes.

Like, this is the woman that y'all parade as such a good mother who would do anything for her children?

The woman that poisoned her children towards their sister and made them think she'd kill them for no fucking reason other than her own jealousy? The woman that made her son losing an eye all about her? The woman that forced her son on the throne and is now offering his and his brother's heads to their enemy to save herself from a situation she created? The woman who cared more about covering her own ass after her grandson died than her literal grieving daughter? The woman that left her son to grieve on his own after he lost his child, even though he looked to her for comfort? The woman that spent exactly one (1) day by her injured son's side while he was in immense pain before betraying him anyway?

This woman?

And yet whenever someone points out that Rhaenyra was a better mother than Alicent---something supported heavily by the show and book---suddenly Alicent's stans start coming out of the woodwork to argue about it. It's amazing that she manages to have any kind of characterization at all, the way her stans ignore or take out of context literally everything she does that isn't crying or looking pretty.

*(I find him interesting as a character and like him in that way, but he is a terrible fucking person and should NOT be defended)

[daenerys-apolog1st]

Also the fact that their evidence for Dany “going mad” is just her killing slavers and not being willing to put her cause at stake by taking prisoners in the middle of a war.

First of all, killing slavers is a good thing yall---I’m sorry but I’m never gonna argue with some idiot who thinks that Dany killing slavers was bad and she should’ve just left them be and not done anything. Sorry Dany isn’t like your other protag favs who see slavery and go “wow that’s bad” and then do nothing about it 🤷‍♀️

Secondly, at the point in time where Dany refuses to take prisoners and instead makes the offer of “kneel or die,” we’ve seen MULTIPLE PEOPLE get captured by different factions and then escape. Dany isn’t stupid, she knows that prisoners pose a threat to her and the people under her command/in her care---just by way of what they are: enemies.

What happens if those prisoners revolt and kill her people (and possibly her)? What happens if those prisoners escape or are rescued by her enemies and then are able to tell them information about her, her plans, or even just the tactics she uses in battle (all very important things)? What happens if they get ambushed and her enemies now have a camp full of prisoners that will also fight and kill her people?

Also, since Dany antis seem to find Sansa's petulant "what do dragons eat anyway" comment "so badass" or whatever, what about all the resources that Dany and her people would have to use to take care of the prisoners? The food and water and medicine, if they get injured/sick? The soldiers that would be needed to watch them and their time an energy? What about the extra preparations it would take to ensure that those prisoners don't escape and kill everyone, and all the time and money and resources that would take?

What about all of that?

Not to mention that Dany, despite what her antis would have you believe, is being very merciful in this situation.

She's giving her enemies a chance to change sides and serve her, rather than just killing them outright because they were fighting for the other side in the first place, and even giving them MULTIPLE CHANCES to do so before she does anything.

She makes them an offer, some people kneel, and she doesn't kill anyone yet.

Drogon then punctuates her point by roaring, more people kneel, and she still doesn't kill anyone.

She then talks to one of the people still standing, listens to his reasons, tells him that she respects his choice, listens to Tyrion's ideas and the man's rebuttals, and still doesn't kill anyone.

The man's son steps forth and tells her to kill him as well, she again offers him a chance to bend the knee at his father and Tyrion's urging, she listens to Tyrion's arguments and explains her reasons.

Only after ALL OF THAT does she actually follow through on the "kneel or die" thing.

So it's not like she never gave anyone a chance to change their mind and I feel the need to point out that many other people in her place would've just started killing everyone after the first couple people knelt. She killed them, yes, but she first gave them several chances to change their minds and still let them keep their dignity and offered them her respect even in death---which is more than I can say for how other characters treat those they condemn.

Like, call me crazy, but none of that screams "mad targaryen murder queen" to me, it's just killing horrible people [the slavers] and then practicality in wartime.

Dany antis just want to be different and "special," let's be real.

Just saw another dumbfuck dany anti take on this shit app. Some of u weirdo bitches want female characters to be victims and have a pathetic obsession with women's misery. The only way u all can like them when they suffer otherwise they are entitled bitches who deserve there fate. Another idiot who argued that dany's descent into inevitable madness was always there. It makes me rip my hair out how obtuse annoying and completely stupid this fandom is. Fucking 2025 and your illiterate ass STILL cannot differentiate between book and show. Now losers are blaming dany instead of fuckass D&D that her abuse was romanticized. Kindly stfu. Too many female fans are misogynistic morons themselves especially sansa cersei fans and I am fucking tired seeing there abhorrent mind bogglingly shitty takes. They can choke " oh dany is so evil omg entitled ruthless bla bla" BITCH U STAN CERSEI STFU AND GTFO WITH YOUR HYPOCRITICAL ASS

[daenerys-apolog1st]

Crazy how people ignore literally everything about the Dance to support bullshit that they just made up in their heads to justify backing the misogynist bootlicker side of the war.

Rhaenyra was supported by the vast majority of the houses, and that's just plain fact. How about we list them all:

House Velaryon, House Celtigar, House Staunton, House Massey, House Bar Emmon, House Darklyn, House Stark, House Tully, House Frey, House Hayford, House Harte, House Byrch, House Dustin, House Manderly, House Darry, House Blackwood, House Beesbury, House Caswell, House Costayne, House Borrell, House Buckerler, House Fell, House Arryn, House Corbray, House Cerwyn, House Hornwood, House Charlton, House Mallister, House Piper, House Roote, House Footly, House Vance of Wayfarer's Rest, House Smallwood, House Wode, House Burley, House Grimm, House Merryweather, House Mullendore, House Oakheart, House Rowan, House Royce, House Sunderland, and House Tarly.

House Yronwood- (the most powerful house in Dorne, aside from the Martells) -also supported Rhaenyra, even though the Martells remained neutral.

THAT'S 44 HOUSES!!!

Even House Bracken defected to the Blacks, even after first supporting the Greens---as did the City Watch of King's Landing.

And do you know how rare and insane it is for the Brackens and the Blackwoods to be on the same side? Like, if that tells you anything about who had the most support during the Dance, it definitely wasn't Aegon.

So, with a total of 45 houses that supported Rhaenyra and her claim, let's see how many supported Aegon:

House Hightower, House Cole, House Lannister, House Wylde, House Strong, House Peake, House Fossoway, House Roxton, House Norcross, House Ambrose, House Butterwell, House Rosby, House Stokeworth, House Mooton, House Lefford, House Swyft, House Reyne, House Tarbeck, House Crakehall, House Redwyne, House Baratheon, House Swann, House Vance of Atranta, House Graceford, House Risley, and House Leygood.

26 houses supported Aegon...and, not for nothing, but 4 of those houses originally supported Rhaenyra and only defected to the Greens because they were captured and told that they had to either swear fealty to Aegon II or die---meanwhile the Brackens defected to the Blacks of their own volition.

Even so, however, with Aegon's 26 houses, that still leaves Rhaenyra with 19 HOUSES MORE THAN AEGON! 45 houses v. 26! And that's at the END of the Dance after Aegon forced 4 houses to join his side, in the BEGINNING---putting those 4 houses on Rhaenyra's side and House Bracken on Aegon's side---Rhaenyra had 26 MORE HOUSES ON HER SIDE! 48 houses v. 23!

To really nail the point home:

In the beginning, Rhaenyra had 25 MORE houses on her side than Aegon did, which is more houses than Aegon had IN TOTAL!

Either way you slice it, beginning or end, Rhaenyra had the support of the vast majority of the houses.

As for the smallfolk not liking her, that's something that the show completely made up.

Firstly, it's clear that that play was less a vote of whether they liked Rhaenyra or not and more of a showcase of that societal misogyny TG is such a big fan of. They weren't making fun of Rhaenyra because they didn't like her, they were making fun of her because she's a WOMAN! If she were a man, the play wouldn't exist because they'd have no reason to make fun of her because her (him, in this case) being named heir would fall into their society's expectations.

Secondly, in the book the smallfolk do actually support her claim---she wasn't called "The Realm's Delight" for nothing. At Aegon II's coronation, no one cheered and people were asking for Rhaenyra; when Rhaenyra took over King's Landing, people cheered and celebrated; the only reason the smallfolk revolted against her was because the Greens raided the treasury and so Rhaenyra had to raise taxes to try and replenish what they stole; and are y'all seriously forgetting this passage in the book:

"When Prince Daemon sent forth his call to arms, they rose up all along the rivers, knights and men-at-arms and humble peasants who yet remembered the Realm's Delight, so beloved of her father, and the way she smiled and charmed them as she made her progress through the riverlands in her youth. Hundreds and then thousands buckled on their sword-belts and donned their mail, or grabbed a pitchfork or a hoe and a crude wooden shield, and began to make their way to Harrenhal to fight for Viserys's little girl.”

Rhaenyra was beloved by the smallfolk---despite what TG would have you believe---and they DID support her, alongside the majority of the houses. She had the stronger claim, the majority of the houses, the love of the smallfolk, the better cause, and her son sat on the throne at the end of it all---because the houses that supported her were truly LOYAL to her, something that can't be said for Aegon's supporters considering that he was literally poisoned by his own men.

Team Green trying to pretend that she wasn't loved and supported is just a deathly case of copium because they can't handle the fact that no one liked their rapist loser king 🤷‍♀️

[daenerys-apolog1st]

i say this as a catelyn enjoyer, catelyn's hatred of jon is not particularly rational in the sense that it doesn't hinge on jon's own personal character. like some of it is borne out of wider prejudice regarding bastards (socially stigmatised as treacherous and grasping of their trueborn siblings' rights) of course, but the thing that hurts her most is what jon's presence in the household symbolically represents. and it's not the infidelity, it's the perpetual reminder of the disenfranchised position of women in their society and how little agency she truly has in her marriage and in the wider social sphere. the thing about catelyn's character is that she might be the conforming lady archetype, but she's also written to be very much aware of how disadvantaged women are in westeros.

"I might have been able to trade the Kingslayer for Father, but . . ." ". . . but not for the girls?" Her voice was icy quiet. "Girls are not important enough, are they?" Catelyn I, ACOK Is this my punishment for opposing him about Jon Snow? Or for being a woman, and worse, a mother? Catelyn V, ASOS “Father,” she said, “Father, I know what you did.” She was no longer an innocent bride with a head full of dreams. She was a widow, a traitor, a grieving mother, and wise, wise in the ways of the world. “You made him take her,” she whispered. “Lysa was the price Jon Arryn had to pay for the swords and spears of House Tully.” Catelyn I, ASOS Brienne looked at her with those blue and beautiful eyes. “As ladies die in childbed. No one sings songs about them.” “Children are a battle of a different sort.” Catelyn started across the yard. “A battle without banners or warhorns, but no less fierce. Catelyn VI, ACOK

^ these are not the words of someone who's content with her lot in life or has made perfect peace with the rules of westeros's feudal patriarchy. brienne and catelyn are both acknowledging the thankless role women are made to play. "no longer an innocent bride" / "wise in the ways of the world" has a certain misery to it, considering the topic at hand is hoster's abominable treatment of lysa for transgressing social norms. even a sentiment such as - "Pity filled Catelyn's heart. Is there any creature on earth as unfortunate as an ugly woman?", is not coming from a place of scorn or thoughtlessness, but from knowing too well how cruelly their world treats women, how brienne's appearance would affect her marriage prospects.

“Our duty.” Catelyn’s face was drawn as she started across the yard. I have always done my duty, she thought. [...] I gave Brandon my favor to wear, and never comforted Petyr once after he was wounded, nor bid him farewell when Father sent him off. And when Brandon was murdered and Father told me I must wed his brother, I did so gladly, though I never saw Ned’s face until our wedding day. I gave my maidenhood to this solemn stranger and sent him off to his war and his king and the woman who bore him his bastard, because I always did my duty. Catelyn VI, ACOK

there's such clear resignation here, this is not how you talk if you're proud to have done your duty, if you feel you were actually rewarded for having done it. and duty here means meeting the unforgiving expectations of westeros's feudal patriarchy. if sansa's chapters are about growing out of that conditioning by realising that there is no reward to be found here, then catelyn's chapters are about showing the personal cost of having lived your entire life internalising those ideals. her house words being 'family, duty, honor' is a very deliberate character choice.

so it's not just that ned cheated on her, but that he unanimously made the decision to install jon at their home and catelyn's feelings were allowed no say in the matter, that it happened even before she was able to step foot in winterfell with robb is another blow. she had just been exchanged as goods from one (dead) brother to another and she was supposed to be okay with all this, like the most natural thing in the world because her house words were drilled into her since childhood. but we know she wasn't. she stamped down that resentment out of duty, because he's her lord husband and she was to obey him, but that pain and the alienation for having done her duty was going somewhere. openly resenting her husband or her father is not a socially allowed option, so all that resentment gets unfairly taken out on jon, someone she has authority over. and i think identifying the major cause of that hatred as her frustrations with westoros's patriarchal ideals is important because that means knowing the truth of jon's parentage wouldn't have changed anything. that ned kept such a thing from her and again, unanimously made the decision to commit treason without consulting catelyn, is once again simply telling her that she has no control in this marriage, that her judgement is both unasked for and not valued.

[daenerys-apolog1st]

Adding on to this because this rhetoric still pisses me off, the idea that Rhaenyra would kill Aegon and Aemond to “secure her claim” even if they didn’t try to usurp her because “their existence is a threat to her claim/some lords would think Aegon was the rightful heir” is immensely stupid and requires so much illogical tomfuckery to even try to believe.

Daemon and Rhaenys were also “threats” to Viserys’ claim by simply existing.

Daemon was his brother, who had multiple kids by two different women so heirs were no issue, who was a skilled fighter and obviously inspired great loyalty in people. He was called “prince of the city” because he was beloved by the common folk of King’s Landing, and the city watch were still loyal to him even after the Green’s usurpation and Aegon being crowned.

Rhaenys was his cousin and had multiple children, one of which was male and would secure her claim even further if we go the misogyny route (and Laenor did have a claim in the books btw), she had both Meleys and Vhagar on her side (two of the VERY FEW experienced war dragons at this time), and she had the support of House Velaryon—the most powerful house, aside from House Targaryen—which would also grant her more allies bc it’s essentially the other houses deciding which faction of dragons has a better chance of winning, and many would likely throw in with the Velaryons.

If either Daemon or Rhaenys decided to usurp Viserys then they would pose a significant threat to him and his line, and there’s a good chance that they’d overthrow him.

…but did Viserys kill Daemon or Rhaenys just because their existence posed a threat? NO!

To say that Rhaenyra would, or had to, kill her half-brothers just because they existed is fucking ridiculous. Throughout the history of Westeros, every time an heir has had siblings they’ve had “threats to their claim,” but you don’t see every king/queen going around murdering their siblings after their coronation, now do you?

Rhaenyra absolutely DID NOT have to kill her siblings to secure her claim, and she’s never shown to even HAVE that inclination.

If Viserys had only named her heir as a placeholder until he had a son and then switched the line of succession to Aegon, but Rhaenyra still wanted the throne, THEN she’d have to kill Aegon to secure her claim—but that would be because SHE WAS GOING AGAINST THE LINE OF SUCCESSION AND USURPING HIM, NOT BECAUSE HE SIMPLY EXISTED!!!

Viserys didn’t change the line of succession after Aegon was born, however, and steadfastly defended Rhaenyra’s claim as his heir—holding a ceremony for the great houses to swear fealty to her, putting her on his council, having her rule Dragonstone in preparation to rule the Seven Kingdoms, and even CLIMBING OFF OF HIS DEATH BED to defend her and her children.

So no, there was no question about Rhaenyra’s claim as heir, and so there’d be no reason for her to have to kill her half-siblings unless they were actively trying to usurp her.

Not to mention that, if she was really that concerned with her brothers’ claims, there were a number of far easier ways to nullify their claims than outright murder. She could’ve had them take the black, or become kingsguards, or become maesters, or she could’ve exiled them to somewhere far away with plenty of money to live comfortably for the rest of their lives. There was no reason for her first and only option to be outright murder.

“Oh, but if/when Aegon and Aemond had kids, those kids would have claims and pose a threat to Rhaenyra’s kids’ claims as her heirs! It would’ve started a war later on!”

Both Daemon and Rhaenys had children, hell, Rhaenys even had a MALE HEIR, but Viserys still didn’t have to kill them or their children to secure his/his kid’s claims. The Dance didn’t even start bc of Rhaenys and Daemon OR their families, it was started by a completely different house trying to work their way into to royal line by using societal misogyny.

Not to mention that any “line of succession” issues that came up could’ve been easily resolved by simply marrying their children/grandchildren to each other—like Rhaenyra tried to do by marrying Jace and Halaena. Who’s to say that Rhaenyra couldn’t have, or wouldn’t have (even though that goes against what we’ve been shown), just wed her kids/grandkids to Aegon and Aemond’s kids/grandkids in order to stop any potential conflict?

Saying that Rhaenyra had to or would have done things that literally no other king/queen in Westerosi history had to do in order to secure her claim, instead of just doing literally any other easy option, is fucking ridiculous and the double standards go crazy.

Also “there might’ve been a war later on, so they had to start a war now” is the stupidest logic I’ve ever heard.

Finally, the idea that she would've had to kill Aegon and Aemond because some lords would think Aegon was the rightful heir instead of her is, once again, just fucking stupid.

1. Rhaenyra had the support of the majority of the Great Houses during the Dance so, even if some of the lords/ladies didn't fully back her, they would be well outnumbered by those who did support her.

and 2. what exactly were they gonna fucking do about it? lmao

As long as Aegon didn't try to usurp Rhaenyra, what exactly were the houses that didn't support her claim gonna do? Try and back Aemond? A second son who wouldn't have a claim even if we discounted Rhaenyra's? Like it or not, their opinions don't mean jack shit when it comes to the line of succession—people only think they held any weight because Jaehaerys I let them decide who would be heir exactly one (1) time during the Great Council of 101.

So, again, my point stands and there was no reason for Alicent, her children, or TG to think that Rhaenyra would ever kill her half-siblings to "secure her claim" if they didn't usurp her.

Honestly the idea that Alicent or her children ever had genuine reasons to "fear for their lives" because of Rhaenyra or Daemon is just plain fucking ridiculous and I have no idea where TG gets it.

(putting everything under the cut bc this post gets long)

First, let's start with Rhaenyra herself:

When she was younger Rhaenyra was shown to be disdainful towards the idea of being pregnant HERSELF, understandably so given what happened to her mother, and she was also shown to feel anger towards HER FATHER for "replacing her [his "unwanted" daughter] with a son," but never once was she shown to take this anger out on Aegon. There's even a deleted scene where she dotes on him and tries to teach him her name which shows that, even if it didn't make it to the final cut, the writers' intention was to show her as a loving sister.

Not to mention that, although she is shown to also be angry at Alicent, her anger basically just manifests itself as not wanting to be around Alicent and occasionally being passive agressive towards her. Even when she's angry, though, she shows concern for Alicent's wellbeing and that she cares for her, asking if she should be traveling in such condition---something that Alicent does not show to Rhaenyra when the roles are reversed, I might add.

Nothing shown when Rhaenyra is younger lends itself to the idea that she would harm anyone in order to secure her claim, and that continues whenever she's older.

First of all, when Rhaenyra is older it's shown that her primary concern is her own family and her own affairs---she focuses on her children, on her husband and her lover, on her future and the future of her family. She doesn't give a fuck about what Alicent or her siblings are doing, she cares about her own life.

Secondly, Rhaenyra literally offers to betroth Jace to Halaena, which would then put Alicent's daughter next in line for the throne as his wife and then put their children on the throne after them. Would someone deviously plotting to murder her siblings seriously do that? Offer to put one of them directly on the throne with 0 competition? Really?

And Alicent knew damn well that her children weren't in danger too because she refused this betrothal! If she was in any way "scared" for her children, she would've accepted the betrothal in a heartbeat because merging their families together by doing so would be one of the best ways to protect her children. Rhaenyra obviously wouldn't put her own children in the line of fire by marrying them into a family she was planning to kill, and Alicent knew this. So either Alicent wasn't actually scared for her children's lives, like TG claims, or she was willing to put her kids in danger just to scorn Rhaenyra---so, like, which is it?

Furthermore TG says that Alicent's kids had reason to fear for their lives because they "bullied Aemond," but how??? The "pink dread" thing was, as far as pranks go, harmless and something led by Aegon---and it's implied that most of the bullying was as well when Alicent gets on to Aegon for it, telling him that "they [Rhaenyra's kids] won't be your playthings forever." Alicent is the one telling her children that Rhaenyra will kill them, but it's clear that they didn't naturally hold this belief themselves, with Aegon even saying that he won't challenge Rhaenyra so she won't kill him.

Driftmark was an entirely other situation, which I've outlined in another post, but the gist is that it was something clearly out of the norm for everyone and not any reason for them to fear for their lives. The whole thing was an accident that happened because emotions were running high and no one was watching the damn kids.

And TG constantly points to Driftmark as a reason they should fear for their lives because "Rhaenyra said Aemond should be tortured" when 1. Rhaenyra said "questioned sharply," how the hell do you get "tortured" from "questioned" ??? and 2. Rhaenyra said this as a reactionary response to Alicent saying that her 5 y/o child should be maimed, it was a defensive action taken to try and take the attention off of her kid and protect him.

Not to mention that Rhaenyra never actually tries to do anything to Aemond, no matter what she said, meanwhile Alicent actively went after Lucerys with a knife---so, if anything, Rhaenyra is the one who should be fearing for her children's lives, especially given everything else that Alicent and the Greens have done to them.

Moving on to Daemon:

Be so fucking serious, Daemon did not give a damn about those kids until they started hurting his family. Daemon isn't against killing, but he doesn't just kill for no reason.

He killed Rhea Royce because he didn't want to be married to her anymore, he wanted to marry Rhaenyra- (which, side note, differs from the book bc in the book he wasn't even in the area when his wife died).

He "killed" Laenor because he and Rhaenyra wanted to get married but couldn't while he was alive, and he killed the random guy because they needed a body double.

He killed Vaemond because Vaemond was questioning his step-sons' legitimacy, something that could get them killed, and had just openly called his wife a whore in public court.

He had Jahaerys killed as revenge for Lucerys' death, he didn't just wake up one day and decide- "yknow what I haven't done? ordered the assassination of a baby...I'm gonna go do that now" -there was a specific action [Luce's death] and Daemon reacted to it with B&C.

He eventually kills Aemond because Aemond was apart of usurping his wife's throne and literally murdered one of his kids, while being complicit in the deaths of the others.

In a scenario where Aegon and Aemond bend the knee and don't usurp the throne---thereby leading to Visenya not being miscarried, Luce not being eaten by Vhagar, Jacaerys not being killed in battle, Rhaenyra not being harmed by them in any way, etc.---Daemon would not give a shit about them or what they did with their lives unless they started doing shit to hurt his family.

Daemon kills out of love and/or loyalty, not because he just felt like it one morning---does that excuse it? No, but it does show that he's someone who kills for a reason, not out of random impulse.

Not to mention that Rhaenyra would never allow such a thing. Daemon specifically has to go behind her back to facilitate B&C and when she finds out she's fucking LIVID, the idea that she'd just let him---or ask him to---murder her siblings is fucking ridiculous. Plus both Daemon and Rhaenyra know that them randomly murdering her siblings would only harm her claim since she'd then be a kinslayer, and kinslaying is incredibly taboo, and neither of them want to harm her claim.

Taking all of this into consideration, there's just no evidence to back the- "they feared for their lives" -claim. The Greens wanted power and did everything they could to take it, reducing their ambitions and goals to- "boo hoo they were scared of Rhaenyra" -is not only stupid but it takes away their agency in the story.

[daenerys-apolog1st]

Crazy to me how TG will use Alicent being maritally raped as an excuse for every terrible thing she's ever done, but then turn right back around and be pissed that Rhaenyra had bastards.

My dudes, Laenor was gay...are y'all seriously saying that you wanted Rhaenyra to maritally rape her gay husband so that she could have "pureblood" heirs? Seriously?

Either marital rape is bad- (the correct take) -and Rhaenyra isn't an evil bitch for having bastards instead of raping her husband, or it isn't bad- (what the fuck is wrong with you if you pick this one) -and Alicent actually isn't a victim and didn't have it that bad.

You can't sit here and have both, that makes you a hypocrite.

[daenerys-apolog1st]

Fun fact for TG and Alicent Stans:

It is possible to completely empathize with Alicent, Aegon, and Aemond for what they went through as children while also not letting all the horrible shit that they've done slide! It is possible to do both!

You can't go on and on about loving "complicated characters" and then get pissed off when people point out that your fav has flaws and has done horrible things! That's called "ignoring a character's actions," "not actually loving complicated characters," and "wanting an excuse to like a morally bad/ambiguous character bc you relate to them or otherwise think they're hot."

If you have to constantly gloss over, erase, downplay, or justify a character's terrible actions, you don't actually like complicated characters because you have to sanitize and soften them. You don't like complicated characters, you just happen to like a morally bad/ambiguous character and want an "excuse" to like them---all the while hiding behind the "complicated" tagline.

I'll respect people who say- "I like Aemond because he's hot" -or- "I like Aegon because I relate to his desperation for his parents' approval" -or- "I like Alicent because I'm queer and like the subtext between her and Rhaenyra in the show" 1000 times more than the people who try to pretend that everything they did was good/justified/Correct™️.

Believe it or not, you can like a character and still criticize them and think that they're wrong.

[daenerys-apolog1st]

Honestly the idea that Alicent or her children ever had genuine reasons to "fear for their lives" because of Rhaenyra or Daemon is just plain fucking ridiculous and I have no idea where TG gets it.

(putting everything under the cut bc this post gets long)

First, let's start with Rhaenyra herself:

When she was younger Rhaenyra was shown to be disdainful towards the idea of being pregnant HERSELF, understandably so given what happened to her mother, and she was also shown to feel anger towards HER FATHER for "replacing her [his "unwanted" daughter] with a son," but never once was she shown to take this anger out on Aegon. There's even a deleted scene where she dotes on him and tries to teach him her name which shows that, even if it didn't make it to the final cut, the writers' intention was to show her as a loving sister.

Not to mention that, although she is shown to also be angry at Alicent, her anger basically just manifests itself as not wanting to be around Alicent and occasionally being passive agressive towards her. Even when she's angry, though, she shows concern for Alicent's wellbeing and that she cares for her, asking if she should be traveling in such condition---something that Alicent does not show to Rhaenyra when the roles are reversed, I might add.

Nothing shown when Rhaenyra is younger lends itself to the idea that she would harm anyone in order to secure her claim, and that continues whenever she's older.

First of all, when Rhaenyra is older it's shown that her primary concern is her own family and her own affairs---she focuses on her children, on her husband and her lover, on her future and the future of her family. She doesn't give a fuck about what Alicent or her siblings are doing, she cares about her own life.

Secondly, Rhaenyra literally offers to betroth Jace to Halaena, which would then put Alicent's daughter next in line for the throne as his wife and then put their children on the throne after them. Would someone deviously plotting to murder her siblings seriously do that? Offer to put one of them directly on the throne with 0 competition? Really?

And Alicent knew damn well that her children weren't in danger too because she refused this betrothal! If she was in any way "scared" for her children, she would've accepted the betrothal in a heartbeat because merging their families together by doing so would be one of the best ways to protect her children. Rhaenyra obviously wouldn't put her own children in the line of fire by marrying them into a family she was planning to kill, and Alicent knew this. So either Alicent wasn't actually scared for her children's lives, like TG claims, or she was willing to put her kids in danger just to scorn Rhaenyra---so, like, which is it?

Furthermore TG says that Alicent's kids had reason to fear for their lives because they "bullied Aemond," but how??? The "pink dread" thing was, as far as pranks go, harmless and something led by Aegon---and it's implied that most of the bullying was as well when Alicent gets on to Aegon for it, telling him that "they [Rhaenyra's kids] won't be your playthings forever." Alicent is the one telling her children that Rhaenyra will kill them, but it's clear that they didn't naturally hold this belief themselves, with Aegon even saying that he won't challenge Rhaenyra so she won't kill him.

Driftmark was an entirely other situation, which I've outlined in another post, but the gist is that it was something clearly out of the norm for everyone and not any reason for them to fear for their lives. The whole thing was an accident that happened because emotions were running high and no one was watching the damn kids.

And TG constantly points to Driftmark as a reason they should fear for their lives because "Rhaenyra said Aemond should be tortured" when 1. Rhaenyra said "questioned sharply," how the hell do you get "tortured" from "questioned" ??? and 2. Rhaenyra said this as a reactionary response to Alicent saying that her 5 y/o child should be maimed, it was a defensive action taken to try and take the attention off of her kid and protect him.

Not to mention that Rhaenyra never actually tries to do anything to Aemond, no matter what she said, meanwhile Alicent actively went after Lucerys with a knife---so, if anything, Rhaenyra is the one who should be fearing for her children's lives, especially given everything else that Alicent and the Greens have done to them.

Moving on to Daemon:

Be so fucking serious, Daemon did not give a damn about those kids until they started hurting his family. Daemon isn't against killing, but he doesn't just kill for no reason.

He killed Rhea Royce because he didn't want to be married to her anymore, he wanted to marry Rhaenyra- (which, side note, differs from the book bc in the book he wasn't even in the area when his wife died).

He "killed" Laenor because he and Rhaenyra wanted to get married but couldn't while he was alive, and he killed the random guy because they needed a body double.

He killed Vaemond because Vaemond was questioning his step-sons' legitimacy, something that could get them killed, and had just openly called his wife a whore in public court.

He had Jahaerys killed as revenge for Lucerys' death, he didn't just wake up one day and decide- "yknow what I haven't done? ordered the assassination of a baby...I'm gonna go do that now" -there was a specific action [Luce's death] and Daemon reacted to it with B&C.

He eventually kills Aemond because Aemond was apart of usurping his wife's throne and literally murdered one of his kids, while being complicit in the deaths of the others.

In a scenario where Aegon and Aemond bend the knee and don't usurp the throne---thereby leading to Visenya not being miscarried, Luce not being eaten by Vhagar, Jacaerys not being killed in battle, Rhaenyra not being harmed by them in any way, etc.---Daemon would not give a shit about them or what they did with their lives unless they started doing shit to hurt his family.

Daemon kills out of love and/or loyalty, not because he just felt like it one morning---does that excuse it? No, but it does show that he's someone who kills for a reason, not out of random impulse.

Not to mention that Rhaenyra would never allow such a thing. Daemon specifically has to go behind her back to facilitate B&C and when she finds out she's fucking LIVID, the idea that she'd just let him---or ask him to---murder her siblings is fucking ridiculous. Plus both Daemon and Rhaenyra know that them randomly murdering her siblings would only harm her claim since she'd then be a kinslayer, and kinslaying is incredibly taboo, and neither of them want to harm her claim.

Taking all of this into consideration, there's just no evidence to back the- "they feared for their lives" -claim. The Greens wanted power and did everything they could to take it, reducing their ambitions and goals to- "boo hoo they were scared of Rhaenyra" -is not only stupid but it takes away their agency in the story.

[daenerys-apolog1st]

Just saw a video from someone on Team Green who said that it doesn't matter that Aegon is a rapist, he's still better than the "Strong boys" and like...TG is fucking insane and delusional, they're not even trying to hide the sexism now

[daenerys-apolog1st]

I'm never gonna forgive the writers of HotD for taking Laenyra, a happy and healthy wlw relationship, away from us and replacing it with Rhaenyra apparently having the hots for her canonical abuser.

[daenerys-apolog1st]

It's literally insane how TG and Alicent Stans will see someone criticizing Alicent for things she's done and choices that she's actively made, and then they're only response is just- "she was groomed by Viserys! She was manipulated by her father! How dare you criticize her when she's a victim!" -and like...be so fucking serious.

Yes, in the show, Alicent is groomed by her father and Viserys, and her initial mistrust of Rhaenyra and support of Aegon's eventual usurpation was planted by her father's manipulations. However, that does not excuse the choices that she actively made as an adult and that also doesn't mean that she did not grow up to be an abuser herself and that she is above criticism.

She was an adult when she abused Rhaenyra for 10+ years, terrorized her family to the point where they left their home, spread rumors that she knew full well could get her and her children killed, and took every chance she could to humiliate and hurt her or the ones she loved.

She was an adult when she demanded that Rhaenyra's 5 second old newborn child be separated from their mother and brought to her, knowing full well that 1. Rhaenyra would likely bring the child herself because she would never allow her baby to be taken from her, 2. that Rhaenyra was terrified of childbirth and losing children because she watched her mother literally be killed by it and lost multiple siblings right after childbirth, and 3. that right after birth is a very delicate time for a baby and that demanding them be separated from the mother and paraded around the castle could put them in danger.

She was an adult when she filled her children's heads with the idea that their sister hated them and was going to kill them, separating them from the rest of their family and sowing hatred between them, and placing the idea of usurpation in their heads. Aegon outright says that he doesn't want the throne, that he doesn't want to challenge her, but Alicent forces him onto the throne anyway.

She was an adult when she did everything she could to protect her rapist son, including threatening a girl who he'd just raped and basically throwing her out of the castle, all the while it's heavily implied that he's raped girls before and she's done nothing about it but give him slaps on the wrist.

She was an adult when she betrothed her 13 year old daughter to said rapist son, therefore continuing the cycle of abuse that she once faced herself in her daughter---despite the fact that there were plenty of other perfectly good options for her daughter and she didn't have to do that.

She was an adult when she went after a 5 year old with a knife and tried to maim him over an accident instead of blaming the adults in the situation that were actually at fault for not watching the kids, an accident that---mind you---Aemond told her to stop freaking out over himself because he got a dragon out of it. But she ignored him and then proceeded to make him losing an eye all about herself with her little speech.

She was an adult when she heard that Larys Strong murdered his family, including the Hand of the King, and did absolutely nothing to bring him to justice and never told anyone else that could've done something---before then reaping the benefits of him murdering his family by having her father made Hand once again.

She was an adult when she was fucking the kingsguard that was supposed to be protecting her daughter and grandchildren, leading to no guards being around to protect them (Criston sent them all away), the night that her grandson was murdered. AND THEN worrying more about covering her own ass than her literal grieving daughter afterwards.

She was an adult when she offered up her son's head to Rhaenyra despite the fact that she was the one who forced her son on the throne in the first place, basically willing to sacrifice him to---again---cover her own ass.

And so much more throughout the course of the show.

Yes, Alicent was a victim, but that does not excuse her actions nor put her above criticism---being abused does not mean you cannot be an abuser yourself. At a certain point, the fact that she was a victim becomes obsolete in these conversations because---as an adult---she chose to do the things she did herself, and it's ridiculous to use the abuse she faced as a child as a scapegoat for every bad thing she's ever done.

Like, again, be so fucking serious.

[daenerys-apolog1st]

PREACH!!!

Also, concerning Daemon, another change they made was that they had him murder his first wife when—in the books—HE WASNT EVEN FUCKING THERE!!!

I swear this whole show has got to be a joke because how the fuck is it gonna be called “House of the Dragon” but the majority of the focus seems to be on Alicent and Otto HIGHTOWER and the specific Targaryen faction that shirks literally everything about being Targaryen except flying dragons???

The Greens literally wear green, the Hightower color, instead of the blacks and reds of House Targaryen.

The Greens literally parade a dragon head around the city with no care or decorum, whereas the Targaryens are shown to understand how important their dragons are, respect them, and are well aware of their position without them- “without them we’re just like everyone else.”

The Greens took down every emblem of House Targaryen and replaced it all with the Faith of the Seven.

Alicent, one of the heads of the Greens’ cause, literally says “you Targaryens do have queer customs” -separating herself and, more importantly, her [future] children from being Targaryens and Targaryen culture, as well as painting both negatively.

Like how the fuck are you focusing on the faction that constantly separates itself from being Targaryen, and favoring that faction no less, WHEN THE SHOW IS LITERALLY SUPPOSED TO FOCUS ON THE TARGARYENS AKA THE BLACKS!!!

I'm gonna be so serious right now, every time I see someone from Team Green say that the show- "favors team black" -I just wanna ask what fucking show they're watching and if they can send it to me.

This ridiculous show has taken like 75% of the shit that happens in the books and either changed it or completely omitted it, all to either make TG seem more sympathetic or TB look bad.

Want some examples?

----------

In the books, Rhaenyra's sons' legitimacy was questioned, but in all likelihood they were 100% legitimate and the "bastard" rumors were mainly spread/believed by TG and their supporters---Rhaenys even had "dark" hair just like Rhaenyra's sons and, if I remember correctly, Aemma's appearance wasn't described but she had Arryn blood which would lend to the boys' dark hair as well.

In the show, they made her sons definitively bastards (at least by blood) and took away how Rhaenys looked in the book, making her have the stereotypical Targaryen features just to make Rhaenyra look stupid I guess.

In the books, Alicent Hightower was 18 years old and willingly went after Viserys because she---like her father---wanted power and wanted her blood on the throne. Viserys, at the time, was like 27 if I remember correctly.

In the show, Alicent is about 15 and is forced by her father to go after Viserys, who seems to be of about 40-50 years of age.

In the books, Alicent Hightower---a grown woman---had beef with an 8 year old little girl for no reason other than the fact that Viserys wouldn't write her off as heir in order to favor her son.

In the show, Alicent hates Rhaenyra because of childhood best friend drama---they made her and Rhaenyra the same age---and the fact that Rhaenyra didn't tell her about having a one night stand, betrayal yada yada, plus jealousy because Rhaenyra is "free" and Alicent "isn't" (even though they have similar power at the time as queen and princess, Rhaenyra just actually utilizes it).

In the books, Alicent has 0 remorse for Rhaenyra's sons dying and TG quite literally throws a party after Aemond kills Lucerys.

In the show, Alicent sends letters to Rhaenyra apologizing for his death and Aemond killing Luce was apparently an "accident" that he kinda feels bad for.

In the books, Alicent Hightower 100% supported usurping Rhaenyra and did it knowingly---she didn't give a fuck about Viserys wishes, her father didn't do jack shit, she just wanted her son on the throne and put him there.

In the show, apparently Alicent was "manipulated" into the usurpation by her father and really thought that Viserys wanted Aegon as heir---his dying wish or whatever---and she thought all the usurpation talk was just...idk a joke or something- (even though this retcon literally goes against what was established in S1).

In the books, Rhaenyra was said to always be dressed in jewels and fine fabrics, remembered for her beauty and how she adorned herself. Rhaenyra was also said to have had multiple ladies in waiting that she was close friends with, including Laena Velaryon and Harwin Strong's sisters.

In the show, Rhaenyra tends to be dressed in plainer or just downright ugly clothes and her femininity is stripped away, meanwhile Alicent Hightower is the one the showrunners decided to give the beautiful detailed gowns to and they allowed her to be feminine. Also all of Rhaenyra's female friendships were removed and tossed in the trashcan so that Alicent was her only friend.

In the books, Daemon really did love Laena as well as Baela and Rhaena. Daemon fought for Laena's hand and literally begged Viserys to let him present his daughters at court.

In the show, Daemon doesn't give a fuck about Laena or his daughters and the few scenes that were filmed that show Daemon being a loving husband/father got cut.

In the books, Rhaenyra, Daemon, and Laena were basically a throuple---they were said to visit each other often, fly their dragons together, and as soon as Rhaenyra heard that Laena was in childbirth she flew all the way to Driftmark to attend to her. After Laena's death both Daemon and Rhaenyra were heartbroken, with Rhaenyra even sitting vigil at Laena's bedside.

In the show, Rhaenyra's relationship with Laena is completely erased. Daemon and Rhaenyra fuck at her funeral.

In the books, Rhaenys is Rhaenyra's number 1 defender and is immediately ready to go to war for her birthright because she understands how she feels and still feels robbed of her own birthright.

In the show, Rhaenys has beef with Rhaenyra when she's a child, criticizes her for going to war when she's older, and only seems like mildly annoyed about not being queen.

In the books, Jeyne Arryn 100% supports Rhaenyra because 1. Arryn on her mothers side and 2. because women need to stick together in this "world of men." Rhaenyra also has support from the majority of the houses and the smallfolk, all said to have marched even after her death to "fight for Viserys' little girl."

In the show, Jeyne Arryn doesn't give a fuck about Rhaenyra and the other houses don't seem to either, Rhaenyra's title as the "Realm's Delight" is apparently just bullshit I guess.

----------

I could go on, but y'all get the point.

The idea that this bullshit "favors Team Black" is ridiculous, and do you wanna know the worst part? They're not even writing the changes well. I think I'd take the changes better if the show were actually written well and fully leaned into them, but instead they're just throwing around half-baked ideas and even going back on things that they already established in their own show!

I mean Alicent was 100% down with usurpation in S1, but in S2 apparently she didn't know? Be so fucking serious 💀

This show is just trying to make money off of some stupid- "choose your side" -marketing scheme and the writing is suffering for it, plus it's just changing the story into something completely different. If they wanted to change it this much then they should've just made an original show or something, because this is getting ridiculous.

[daenerys-apolog1st]

Rewatching Game of Thrones right now and tbh I’m not a huge Sansa fan- (not that I don’t like her, I just have other characters that I like more) -but let me tell you, her actress did phenomenally and every time I watch Ned get beheaded, I start crying because of her.

Just listening to her shout and scream for her dad, begging anyone who’ll listen to stop, to help him. Watching her fighting against the guard holding her and sobbing, seeing her literally tossed to the ground after she passes out. It brings me to tears literally every time because I cannot imagine being in her place.

I can understand and even agree with a few criticisms of her (especially in the last season or so), but I can never understand those people who criticize her for this scene or what led up to it.

She had no fucking idea what was going to happen, she thought Joffrey was going to let her dad go and that her dad would be safe in the North, she was standing with Cersei and Joffrey because she had to stand with them to gain enough favor to save her father—she didn’t know that Joffrey and his giant ego were going to have him killed anyway. And she was still trying to gain favor with them because, before all this, she thought that she was in a fairytale where nothing bad happens to the girls that follow the rules and do everything “right.” She thought she was going to get her prince and save her family and that everything was going to be right in the world.

She was a kid, how was she supposed to know that her fairytale was really a nightmare?

I just can’t, she was not at fault here whatsoever.

[daenerys-apolog1st]

It's "missing Game of Thrones" hours rn

I know right now I mainly just post a lot about HotD, but it's honestly because I just plain like Game of Thrones more---which seems kind of backwards, but let me explain.

Game of Thrones had 10 episodes a season with an hour an episode and, the thing is, they made use of their time. There were entire scenes dedicated to just showing us who the characters were, showing us the characters relationships with each other, developing the characters.

Dany and Jon and Robb, Arya and Sansa and Cersei, Tywin and Tyrion and Jamie, Ned and Robert and Catelyn, Littlefinger and Margery and Joffrey, EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER felt like a real person. Every single one of them, even the characters that didn't get a lot of screen time. And we were given time to get attached to them, to know them, to watch their stories unfold. We get to root for them and cry for them and just BE WITH them.

And the thing is, the characters were written so well, they were so well-rounded, that even if you hated them you LOVED to hate them because they were INTERESTING and FUN to watch. You admired their wit, laughed at their fumbles, watched between your fingers as they did something horrible but you couldn't look away.

And, apart from the last season or two, every character stayed true to their previous characterization. Sometimes you'd be sitting at the TV screaming at the characters for doing something, but it wasn't because it was out of character, it was because you just didn't want them to do the thing because you have more information than them and know that them doing the thing will end badly.

Even with all of its flaws, Game of Thrones was still amazing and fun to watch, and I do still rewatch it all the time---hell, I'm sitting here watching it while writing this post (while I'm supposed to be doing my Quant. Methods of Business homework, whoopsies).

House of the Dragon on the other hand...is not Game of Thrones.

Not even close.

They've had roughly the same amount of screen time to work with, with a per episode budget that's wayyy more than GoT's was, and yet it's like I'm watching some shitty dollar store knockoff of what the asoiaf is supposed to be and what GoT was.

We barely get to spend any time with the characters, we barely know anything about them or who they are---we don't know their motivations, we don't really know their personalities, we don't really know what they want or why, we don't know them.

Sure, we're told things about them by the actors and other characters, but that'd be like Cersei's actress saying in an interview "oh yeah she's like this because a witch gave her a kind-of fucked up prophecy when she was a kid" but then nothing about it is ever brought up in the show. Or like the other characters telling us that Ned Stark is an honorable man, but then never seeing Ned Stark do anything honorable on screen---or, hell, even seeing him do unhonorable things.

We're never given any time to get attached to the characters either---Harwin Strong, Laena Velaryon, Lucerys Velaryon, Jaehaerys II Targaryen, and Laenor Velaryon all die after having a minimal amount of screen time. And these are supposed to be important characters!

Lucerys' death is literally one of the main reasons why the Dance starts, Jaehaerys' death is supposed to be this gut-wrenching "the horrors of war" moment, Laena is Daemon's beloved wife and in the books she's Rhaenyra's closest friend (suspected to be her lover), Laenor is Rhaenyra's fucking husband of years and the father of her children (in the books he was, in the show he adopted them idc), Harwin Strong was her sworn protector and (in the show) her lover, again of years.

So why do we know nothing about these characters?

Even characters still alive in the show, characters that are supposed to be important, we barely know anything about. Halaena? Nothing. Baela and Rhaena? Also nothing. Jacaerys? Barely anything.

Even the main characters, like Alicent and Rhaenyra, are hardly developed---we see them do things, but we don't really know why because their characterization is so inconsistent.

Alicent is down with usurpation one moment, the next it was a mistake. One second Rhaenyra is ready to go to war after her son's death and vying for revenge, the next she wants peace and not war. Alicent is willing to do anything for her children one moment, the next she's selling them out. Rhaenyra is terrified of childbirth and is doing everything she can to avoid it, one 10 year timeskip later suddenly she isn't scared at all and is completely comfortable with it.

And we get 0 explanation for any of this.

And this near-constant retconning of their own show means that we (I) am sitting there watching my TV and yelling at it because everything the characters are doing/saying goes against what was previously established about their character.

They're so one-dimensional and flat that I don't love to hate the characters, I just hate the characters.

I don't rewatch HotD like I rewatch GoT, and I have no intention of rewatching it until I get to writing my HotD fic and literally have to in order to get things right.

So yeah, I post a lot about HotD, but it's because I have so many complaints against it---I don't post a ton about GoT because, when I'm watching it, I'm excited to watch it and I don't have that many complaints, I'm just immersed in the story and the world and watching some of my favorite characters develop again.

In short, like I said, it's "missing Game of Thrones" hours rn

[daenerys-apolog1st]

The fact that we were robbed of what was possibly Rhaenyra’s only genuine, loving and reciprocal female relationship for a terribly written fanfiction plot line with her canonical abuser. If you don’t think it was racially charged, you’re dumb. Rhaenyra genuinely loved both Velaryon siblings and the show fucked one of the most important relationships in Rhaenyra’s life. I will be complaining about this on my death bed.

[daenerys-apolog1st]

“If the gods were kinder… would you wed me instead?”

Laena and Rhaenyra discussing Laena’s betrothal to the Braavosi sealord’s son and Nyra’s to Laenor :( I VOWED to make 2025 my year and I AM TRYINGGGGGG (literally crashed out multiple times doing multiple drawings) please save me…

[daenerys-apolog1st]

Whilst Princess Rhaenyra misliked her stepmother Queen Alicent, she became fond and more than fond of her good-sister Lady Laena. With Driftmark and Dragonstone so close, Daemon and Laena oft visited with the princess, and her with them. 

Fire & Blood, GRRM