#anti kylo stans

[short-wooloo]

the reality reylos live in is so weird

listen to them talk about their precious “kylo lives” au follow ups to ros and they’re always going on and on about how “wonderful” it is that Rey and kylo live happily ever after together (bleagh) in a hetero nuclear family new jedi order, but they never seem to have an answer for why everyone in the universe ignores and lets the mass murdering fascist off the hook

[darklinaforever]

I love the way you justify any sick shit just because you like it. Ships with violence against women (Darklina, Reylo) - yes, ships with pedophilia (SebaCiel) - yes, just because you like these particular characters, you are ready to look for "depth" and "complexity" there, but only because YOU PERSONALLY do not like Aegon or Aemond or anyone else, they cannot be complicated and interesting characters in someone's perception. Hypocrisy and stupidity. You accuse people of justifying violence and consider your opinion the only true one, even though you do exactly the same thing yourself, instead of admitting, "yes, I think these characters are hot, so I'll turn a blind eye to what they do."

Darkling and Kylo Ren / Ben Solo = Canonical gray and complex characters. (Oh and Kylo Ren / Ben Solo is a real victim of grooming)

Aegon II and Aemond = Canonical villains (besides being rapists).

“The groom was fifteen years of age ; a lazy and somewhat sulky boy, Septon Eustace tells us, but possessed of more than healthy appetites, a glutton at table, given to swilling ale and strongwine and pinching and fondling any serving girl who strayed within his reach.” - About Aegon II.

“Thus did the flower of House Strong, an ancient line of noble warriors boasting descent from the First Men, come to an ignoble end in the ward at Harrenhal. No trueborn Strong was spared, nor any bastard save... oddly... Alys Rivers. Though the wet nurse was twice his age (thrice, if we put our trust in Mushroom), Prince Aemond had taken her into his bed as a prize of war soon after taking Harrenhal, seemingly preferring her to all the other women of the castle, including many pretty maids of his own years.”

What doesn't click for you here in terms of simple differences ? These characters literally have nothing to do with each other. Not my fault if you are not able to understand this simple fact of how they were written. It's not me who ready to look depth or complexity in them. They are literally written like that, but not really the Greens by GRRM.

In addition, what you say is false, because I always said that I liked the original Aemond, as a pure villain within the dance obviously, due to the context of his writing, namely that Aemond is Daemon's foil (the real gray and complex character), a dark reflection of this latter, and that's quite fascinating, complex, and cool for me to analyze (and that is the reason why I don't like Aemond in the HOTD version, because he actually loses that essential narrative feature that basically makes him who he is in Fire and Blood).

But sorry to say, nothing about Aemond's original characterization as a person is deep or complex, much less the rest of his later actions. Literally he is presented as a little devil from childhood and stay like that until the end.

It's Aegon II, indeed, who I don't find interesting at all, even as a villain. He's just pathetic and disgusting, and anyway it seems to me that these are canonical traits of him...

But some people like this type of villain and good for them, it's just not my personal cup of tea.

I prefer Aemond, and more particularly Alicent, in the group of villains among the Greens, especially because as I said, they are more interesting for me to analyze.

I still remind you that Alicent, from Fire and Blood, is one of my favorite villains in all categories. She's that type of villain that you never get tired of loving to hate. She's a rotten woman with rotten motivations, but she's interesting to watch / reading because she's still the one running the whole Rhaenyra usurpation operation, not Otto. Alicent, in canon, is an intelligent villain who will do anything to achieve her selfish ends at the head of operations. And it's always satisfying to have this kind of villain to face the protagonist.

But I have no problem with people liking Aemond and Aegon II for what they are ; which is again villains.

My problem is those who try to turn them into gray characters, or worse justify them, things that happen far too often among stans / fans of these characters what are Aegon II and Aemond.

Because yes, there are fans who actually justify the violence and bad actions of these characters by finding tons of excuses supposed to make them complex for their fans while the original text does not do so. They indeed exist (even though not everyone is like that and I never said they were all like that).

I've already talked about it a thousand times. But you, their fans, seemed incapable of getting these simple facts into your skulls.

Plus it's cheeky to accuse me of "yes, I think these characters are hot, so I'll turn a blind eye to what they do." when all my posts about the Darkling and Kylo are analyzes due to their complexity / actions, and it doesn't even seem to me that I've already addressed their physical. While once again, there is a great sexualization of the characters of Aegon II and Aemond by certains of their fans.

Seriously, how many posts have I seen saying that "Oh my god, they couldn't resist Aegon II because he's so hot !!!" and we're still talking here about a disgusting alcoholic rapist (and pedophile on top of that according to Fire and Blood) who likes to watch children fight in an arena... while then saying first degree next to what they think that "Aegon II needs hugs to better manage his emotions, and that the rape of Dyana is not really a rape because after all we did not see her with our eyes, if that turns out there was not of penetration !" The complete wtf of that...

So don't come and give me this type of speech, with the number of individuals like I have just described who exist in the community of fans of these two characters that are Aegon II and Aemond.

Afterwards, I am not saying, there are surely people who do not understand the characters of the Darkling and Kylo Ren / Ben Solo, seeing them as pure villains and therefore only see their romantic relationships with Alina and Rey as negative, but who, following the fact of finding the actors / characters attractive, one says"yes, I think these characters are hot, so I'll turn a blind eye to what they do." After all, many do it for the Greens, surely others do it for the Darkling and Kylo Ren / Ben Solo, due to a poor understanding of these last two characters. So obviously what you describe probably exists.

But that's not what I do.

Sorry. I don't ignore the horrible actions of the villains I love, or the gray characters I love. I just don't receive them / don't treat them / don't see them in the same way, because their actions as villains and gray characters don't have the same scope. It's just a fact.

Also, I imagine that what you hear complex about Aegon II from Fire and Blood is that he"didn't want the throne in the first place, because he only did it to protect his family, because he been forced" ?

Bullshit reported by Eustace, a pro greens, who obviously will manage to embellish the people he propagandizes, what surprising !

Especially since this stupid speech from Aegon II never wanted the throne... is quickly revealed be bullshit when we see how much he enjoyed sitting there, ready to reign alone and refusing to be controlled by Otto, all while refusing to abdicate in favor of Rhaenyra, who had nevertheless proposed that his brothers and sisters would be safe, and that he insults her of whore in the process for free, it seems to me. Which... oh yes seems so much like the mark of a deep and complex character / person who don't want be king !

And then it's still really cheeky to tell myself that I like "sick shit with violence against women", when you literally like / found deep interesting, complex and complicated, you know... RAPISTS ?! (But who mostly deny being rapists in the Aemond and Aegon II fans / stans community OF COURSE !) Probably the worst form of violence against women ?! Hospital ? charity ? in your speech ?

Although it's again not really a problem that you love them, as long as the problematic aspect is recognized by you fan. (Even if, objectively, I find that there is nothing interesting about Aegon II as a villain, both as a person and in his character construction and his role, but anyone is free to think otherwise)

As I said, I like Aemond, who is a rapist, as a villain for his narrative role, which I find interesting to analyze. But I also like Kilgrave, another rapist, because I find him interesting, in his way of acting in relation to his power, and the way he can be obsessed with something. We are clearly dealing with a particular psychiatric case. Without forgetting the charisma of the actor and the terrifying aura that he manages to exude from the character. Moreover, these two characters have the particularity of dying because of the women who were the victims of their mistreatment, and that is very very enjoyable.

Or the Dracula of 1992, who also rapes Lucy, Mina's best friend, but who remains presented by the story as a figure similar to Lucifer having fallen and who in his love for Mina allows him to find redemption in death when 'she kills him at his request, all without that stopping him from being the villain of the story in the movie.

But is it because I love these villains that I support their evil actions ? Absolutely no. Of course not. They are monsters / villains that I enjoy watching (while hating them for their disgusting actions) at work generally against the protagonists, but I like even more the moment where they are destroyed. It's exactly the same as the Disney villains of our childhood. We love them for different reasons, but we recognize who they are, that what they do is bad, with no real explanation for the most part, and we mostly love seeing them be defeated in the end.

Besides, it's not because I like gray and complex characters that I'm going to defend / justify / agree with their dark actions either, under the pretext that they have a part of light. On the other hand, we can explain their actions, reflect on their complexity. These characters may have good reasons for doing what they actually do, perhaps originally noble causes, like the Darkling, with wanting the protection of Grisha from normal people and the countries Fjerda and Shu Han, because of centuries of mistreatment and discrimination ? Or the fact that they've been groomed since they were fetuses in their mother's womb, manipulated through unbearable voices in their heads to influence them to do bad things, like Kylo Ren / Ben Solo ?

Or those being described as being made of equal parts light and darkness, but who will only direct their dark side against the people they hates / are they enemies and who... let's be realistic, mostly look very little or not sympathetic in our eyes as readers, even if the actions against these ennemies themselves are not very synonymous of kindness on the part of these gray characters either, like Daemon Targaryen in Fire and Blood.

One thing his introduction in Fire and Blood proves :

And that GRRM himself confirms through his words :

It's not as if the author says something about the character and the text doesn't follow. On the contrary, the text of Fire and Blood completely validates the author's words about Daemon.

But hey, if Green stans prefer say that Daemon is a pure villain and monster and therefore to appear illiterate in order to justify liking / preferring Aegon II, that's their problem. People who know how to read and analyze will know what it's all about.

Anyway, all these characters are only gray and complex who in their respective stories have people worse than them, the real villains, whom they generally face with the protagonist.

No, the true problem here for you, is not that you like the villains Aegon II and Aemond, but is that you bother to send me an anonymous message implying the defense of the honor of these horrible villains fictional character by comparing to other characters (who are gray characters, not villains) who have nothing in common, in order to make you appear more morally just under the pretext that you will put them all on an equal footing, even if they are once again not written the same at all...

But again, the difference between these characters is simple. Like I said :

Darkling and Kylo Ren / Ben Solo = Canonical gray and complex characters. (Oh and Kylo Ren / Ben Solo is a real victim of grooming)

Aegon II and Aemond = Canonical villains (besides being rapists).

So there is no comparison to be made between these characters, or even that any equality of treatment is applied between them. Period.

And what the hell do you care if I imagine a scenario where an adult Ciel gets fucked by Sebastian after they surprisingly fall in love ?

It's literally an imaginary scenario of a purely fanon ship, therefore which has nothing canon, which in fact does not really fit into the framework of pedophilia, since I imagine an adult Ciel in this scenario, like I already said it to an anti in another post !

It's just as stupid to say that Sareth and Sessrin are pedophile ships, because the characters knew the young lady when she was a child, when literally nothing happens or is even suggested in this sense when they are children, while one is a story about the sexual awakening of an adolescent girl through her fantasies and the other, nothing happens until she is an adult (i.e. the guy develops feelings for the girl), for the norms of the society in which she lives !

I repeat, canonically, Sebaciel does not exist.

Sebastian does not have pedophilic sexual urges for Ciel, and Ciel does not fall under Sebastian's manipulation to do things with him. This scenario simply does not exist (nor do I imagine this kind of scenario when I personnaly imagine scenarios for this ship).

Canonically, it is simply a complex and deep relationship between a human and a demon, which therefore exceeds human norms, due to their pact which binds them.

But there is certainly a homoerotic subtext by the author, which can be fun (or not, it depends on how people feel) to see and understand. It's a particulary choice to make, but that doesn't mean that the author supports a real pedophilia and sexual relationship between a child and an adult since anyway... well that never happens in his work canonically speaking. Demons are often linked to lust / perverse things, and are anyway... inhuman. So obviously they will not have normal / moral thoughts or actions. But once again, in reality, there is nothing happening between the characters canonically, and for my part, I not imagine any pedophile or ephebophile scenario.

Love scenarios are common between human and demon, it's one of the many known tropes that many people love. Much like being an immortal falling in love with someone he actually knew as a child (and this without entering into the domain of pedophilia or grooming as many antis people like to automatically and stupidly think).

It's nothing new.

But if you automatically think that this kind of twisted pedophile scenario come in my head when I think to Sebaciel, well... maybe you're the real problem.

To conclude... I would say that there are two possibilities for the person you are.

Either you see Aemond and Aegon II as pure villains but don't know the difference between villains and gray characters, or simply refuse to see it so as not to feel guilty for liking villains (or other obscure reasons), which is... ridiculous because we should not be ashamed of loving villains. Since the dawn of time we have loved them when they are well written.

Or, you refuse to see Aemond and Aegon II as the villains they are and try to put them on the same level as any type of grayer character who would do negative actions to make them also appear as complex characters, or you try to insinuate that these other characters are actually maybe worse than the characters you prefer and love, trying to forget the fact that you like real bad guys (which again, is not something something that someone should shame or hide).

These two possibilities can be linked to the fact that you wish in all cases to appear morally acceptable.

One because you will put all the characters on the same level under the pretext that they have all done morally questionable actions, although these characters in fact have drastic differences and are not treated the same way in their respective stories. All to give you the impression of being morally good, because you will not try to differentiate any of the bad actions committed by these characters, when once again you have to make the difference. Because we cannot put a villain and an anti-hero / gray character on the same level. Thus avoiding you taking the risk of really defending or showing your love and preference for a character who has done bad actions in particular to a certain audience. You appreciate and enjoy watching these characters, but still make no difference between these famous characters who have committed bad actions and you put them all on the same level of atrocity. You don't differentiate between them, just saying that they are all bad and therefore on the same level. What could be more morally correct than that on the surface ?

And the other, because you're trying to pretend that you're the person supporting the gray characters in the story against the real bad guys (even though it's actually the complete opposite that the story is telling). And isn't it also a way of appearing morally superior to pretend that you don't like the villains of the story, but gray characters with a real share of light ?

Or that you try to pretend that the characters you like, the villains, are in fact misunderstood gray characters, in the same way that their adversaries in the story are the real gray characters, therefore trying to make people believe that they is no real villain in the story you are consuming, bringing us back to the concept of putting everyone on the same level, but in a less drastic way than saying that everyone is bad.

That, or you're simply a person who doesn't know how to properly analyze the media you consume.

And whatever the truth, I have to say that none of them seem very positive.

Anyway, once again, I actually have no problem liking villains, without trying to justify them so I can feel entitled to like them.

Again, I particularly like Alicent and Kilgrave, villains who are not gray characters.

But I also have no shame in recognizing gray characters and not putting / treating them on the same level as villains, especially such as the Greens. Quite simply because it is the logical order of things when we analyze these types of characters.

The Darkling and Kylo Ren / Ben Solo have nothing to do with Aemond and Aegon II. And that's a simple truth that must bother you a lot for you to take the trouble to send me an anonymous message.

I'm not stopping anyone from liking the characters of Aemond and Aegon II from finding them interesting villains, because most people like villains that are well written, and GRRM wrote the Greens well. I've always said that. I just don't like those who try to make it seem like these are gray and complex characters (or complicated, as you like to say, because what the hell is complicated about the Greens ? I'm not saying that complicated and complex villains don't exist, on the contrary, there are, but we can't really say that the Greens objectively belong to this type of villain, whether Alicent loved her children, and whether Aegon II tried to build statutes for his brothers or not. Because yes, caricature villains still capable of love, that exists. And however that doesn't make them gray, complex and complicated. Just watch the movie “The Frighteners” and many other fictional programs to understand that). Because they simply aren't. This is the reality of their writing by GRRM.

Best wishes.

[mystarwarsmatters]

Damn, my grudges span wide. If I hear someone liked TLJ, I immediately distrust them.

[adelacreations]

It's so funny to me when antis complain about a character being conventionally attractive. I'm sorry but if you were in the sequels Star Wars Fandom you STILL got harassed, bullied and doxxed for liking Kylo Ren.

And Adam Driver isn't a conventionally attractive man.

[watchingtheearthrise]

Someone said something annoying on Twitter so I’m going to vent here:

LEIA ORGANA SKYWALKER SOLO IS NOT A BAD MOTHER.

Kylo Ren is an asshole and just because Leia didn’t “try to stop the Resistance from destroying Starkiller Base so she could make sure he escaped” that doesn’t make her a bad mom.

Get that bs out of here.

[stonegoldsxcrxt]

Hello (there)! Same anon who sent you the super long ask the other day! I meant to send this much earlier (obviously before the new episode is supposed to air—oops), but I got preoccupied with other things. Anywho.....first of all, I wanted to say I am glad I didn’t come across as being rude to you. And I appreciate you responding so politely as well!!

I feel like I dumped most of my thoughts on you already, but I also don’t mind chatting a bit more about this—if you are open to it too, of course!

I’m glad to see we also agree on some points. And about Headland specifically: tbh I really don’t know how to address that 😭 cause while I think she has some interesting takes on the story and how she wants it to be viewed or where she wants it to go—I very much get where you are coming from. Because as I mentioned in my previous ask, I am not a fan of reylo or kylo (and especially those fans) at all. So while I obviously see where people are drawing the parallels from, it was quite conflicting for me to see Leslye Headland talk about it so much herself. Actually, I was cringing anytime her or the interviewer brought up reylo or any similarities to it 💀 Although I am still glad (I know I already mentioned this) that Headland pointed out that Osha wasn’t going to be all “I know there’s still good in you” or whatever to Qimir and not trying to redeem him.

And I completely understand where you’re coming from when you say you hate seeing young women being treated terribly in a story (I’m a girl too so of course I can relate lol). I mean, if I’m being honest I very typically and wholeheartedly dislike the enemies to lovers dynamic. I think everything regarding said trope can be pretty damn annoying and often times it’s not at all well-written. And I usually hate it regardless of the fandom, the characters, or even the characters’ genders (but the m/f ships are almost always the ones that have a very weird and uncomfortable power imbalance).

And, idk....I’m a little on the fence about the fiction affecting reality thing. I mean, tbh a few years ago I might’ve completely, 100% agreed with you. Especially cause, as I said, I very much was (and still am) very anti reylo and kylo. So I know from experience that some people can be very.....strange and delusional (for lack of a better term) when it comes to liking or shipping toxic things in media. But I’ve also been in and interacted with plenty of other fandoms, and have liked other things besides star wars. As you said, there’s nothing wrong with liking fictional villains.....and as I mentioned, I honestly think it’s quite hypocritical for some fans to now suddenly be up in arms over people liking Qimir or the Osha/Qimir dynamic. Especially since for years fans have joked about characters like Anakin or Maul or Thrawn (and more recently Kylo) being in the right or whatever. I mean, really I’ve never thought about it much since usually it seems to be just jokes and sometimes I, too, get a kick out of those jokes. But like I said to me, especially as a Filipina, it does not sit right with me that a lot of people seem to be mad that some fans are simping for the non-white villain???? And I get that some people—imo mostly straight white women—seem to be lenient towards the hot white male villains. And again, one of my biggest issues with reylo and kylo stans was how they treated John Boyega, and just hurled a bunch of (often extremely racist) insults at him. But unfortunately, even now, when I am essentially on the other side of the fandom—I still feel these underlying hints of racism.....which has been a problem in this fandom since its inception tbh.

So when it comes to the whole ‘fiction affecting/influencing reality’ thing.....I have to say I honestly don’t think there is actually a good or “right” answer to that one??? Idk, I think some people genuinely struggle with it and buy into certain delusions, but in my opinion most star wars fans who like the villainous characters or problematic ships aren’t excusing that kind of thing irl and it doesn’t have any actual bearing on their irl morals.

Also, I appreciate what you’ve said. As for this certain person I have seen on twitter who has especially been spewing hate towards Leslye Headland and Manny Jacinto, I honestly didn’t think you agreed with those views despite them ss and pinning your post (it was the post you made recently about the way fandom is with villains in general) lol. And yeah.....again, even despite somewhat being on the other side of the fandom now I have seen a lot of people criticizing Headland especially and questioning her sexuality. Essentially saying “even as a ‘lesbian’ she has backtracked on lesbian representation” or a few people making fun of Manny Jacinto’s looks (and sometimes his acting).

Like I said, I didn’t believe you were being prejudiced or spewing dumb hate—and I hope you don’t think I was trying to accuse you specifically of that. Tbh I should not even be surprised about some of the vile things I’ve seen people saying (regarding Headland, Stenberg, Jacinto, essentially the whole cast and crew since even before the show dropped). As I mentioned, bigotry has unfortunately been a huge staple of this fandom since the beginning of the franchise, but I fear it’s gotten much worse.....🫤🫤🫤

hey!! so sorry it took so long for me to get to this, I had a lot going on in my life and still do so I'm sorry, this response probably isn't going to be as long! it's not because I'm mad at you or anything like that!! I'm a person too, and I haven't published a LOT of the shit in my inbox I've been getting for these posts but trust me, it's happening. I answer you because I can tell you're respectful and open to discussion!! and I appreciate that!!

1: Personally I will always believe that fiction does affect reality but I think it's obviously very nuanced. It's not as straightforward as "you like a villain so you must be a bad person." I don't think that it's as simple as if you like a villain that you're a bad person, or you condone those events. Villains and antagonists are often written to be empathetic towards the audience to create a sense of conflict, but the audience should be able to recognize that. More simply put, I guess I believe that fictional scenarios can affect your perception of real life events.

To give a pretty extreme example, if only to describe what I mean (I am NOT saying what the acolyte has done is a 1:1 comparison, I am using an example as a learning opportunity), we can talk about the book Lolita, which is infamously about an adult male character who is sexually obsessed with a young girl. The author frequently subtly tries to force the audience to empathize with this man. Ultimately, Lolita is about how abusers can still be charming people if you look on the surface, but underneath it all, they are still looking to take advantage of others. Eventually, the reader should understand this, after realizing that empathizing with someone doesn't absolve them of their crimes. However, there are people who don't; there are people who read that novel and actually walk away with the idea that the book is a love story, and that the young girl who was victimized was actually to blame for the story's events.

In real life, there is an actual phenomenon based off this interpretation of the book that has come to be known as the Lolita Effect, or, the idea that young women or girls should shoulder the blame for the abuse they endear. Quite literally, though perhaps unintentionally, the novel Lolita has contributed to the perpetration of victim-blaming young women and girls. So there's one example of fiction affecting reality and stuff like that is why I believe it does (though obviously far more extreme).

while I don't think anything Star Wars has done with the acolyte even approaches this level (obviously), my argument about the acolyte is that it's important to learn to recognize subtleties in the way that people who might stand to gain something from your allegiance to them might act around you. Headland saying "Qimir did not manipulate Osha" completely undermines what her writers have shown us. It undercuts those subtleties and replaces them with the perspective that this is okay behavior, when, instead, I deadass would not have a problem with this element of the acolyte had Headland simply acknowledged the way Qimir treats Osha is purposeful so that he gains her allyship and affection (I think we agree on this element).

Honestly, I think Headland wanted to tell a story of two people who perceive themselves as having been "wronged" by the Jedi or who may even have real legitimate reasons to be mad at the Jedi independently, coming together and becoming a powerful duo. That's fine, I think that's interesting potential, but what she unintentionally created instead was a woman who was good and honest being emotionally manipulated by a man who is cunning and deliberately aggravates her to get what he wants. It sends two different messages, because it's two different stories.

The way that I worry about this affecting real people's perspectives irl is that Headland has stripped her audience of the ability to recognize those subtleties because she insists they are not there, even though they are. This can then, of course, be extrapolated to real life. Of course, maybe someone is smart enough to recognize it irl... or maybe they aren't. Honestly, that ends up being up to someone's personal capabilities, it's just that sometimes being given examples of things in fiction helps you recognize it later.

2: I'm not going to lie to you, I don't particularly care who the fandom finds attractive. I'm not going to police who you do or don't want to get with on the basis of the character's morality. To be truthful, the people saying "I wanna fuck Qimir" do not bother me. The people saying "I wanna fuck Anakin" do not bother me. The people saying "I wanna fuck Thrawn" do not bother me. I think a lot of people think that I'm offended by it because of this post I made, but truthfully, that post is about being unable to recognize that someone is being manipulative because you are too busy being attracted to them so you excuse all of their shitty behavior, hence the phrase "all the audience saw was a hot guy," meaning, they did not also see that he is being evil while simultaneously being hot. There's nuance to this situation. The problem (for me) isn't people saying "I wanna fuck Qimir," the problem (for me) is people saying "I wanna fuck Qimir and for that reason I think he's absolutely right about everything, the Jedi got what was coming to them, etc," which are all takes I've seen. And the acolyte is far from the only media with this problem. Star Wars as a whole is far from the only media with this problem (ie I've never read or watched shadow and bone but there's a lot of people on that post talking about it.)

Honestly, my criticism of the fandom and media is usually not rooted in how people feel towards characters on a personal level unless it's to the point where 1. it's a pattern and 2. it's disrupting the actual interpretation of the show, particularly when it's disrupting a female character's story. Which is why I made the post I linked above, it's a majorrrrrr pattern in all fandom but I correctly predicted that Qimir was quickly all anyone would talk about, and I was right. I saw no less than ten posts about "where's Qimir" after episode seven. Hello?? Isn't this show about Osha? Is it not her story? Or do you just not care about her anymore? It makes me sad and it happens over and over and over; ie, the sequels quickly became the Kylo Ren movies and little else seemed to matter.

I'm very sorry if you have seen a lot of the fandom saying things that are rooted in racism towards Manny Jacinto. That has not been, and will never be my stance. I seriously don't care who they cast in this role as Qimir, my response would have been the same, because my beef is with this style of story being presented the way it has been, not with the looks of the actor. I highly suggest blocking people who are hating on him for those reasons. Actually, I suggest blocking anyone hating on Manny for this at all, because wtf, he's doing a great job and doesn't deserve that.

What's unfortunate for me is that I really liked episodes 1-5 of the acolyte a lot, and 6-8 completely lost me. I'm very used to tuning out (which I recognize is partially privilege given that I am white) the bigoted chatter from people that seems to erupt from certain recesses of the 'fandom' whenever something new from Lucasfilm comes out because it happens every. single. time. and it's exhausting. I'm super sorry that it feels like literally every time something new and exciting comes out, people who are assholes to be assholes come out of the woodwork and start spewing hatred. But I want to be clear how much I am not condoning nor participating in that aspect of it; even if you see people on twitter spreading screenshots of my posts around while they do, trust me, I literally don't even know them and they certainly never reached out to me to ask if they could share my tumblr post there. I'm not on twitter and I do not condone using my posts to spread hatred for the sake of hatred.

I have a lot of problems with the acolyte, even more now after the last few episodes. What I do is talk about narrative decisions and story decisions and character decisions, because those are the things that I think matter and should be up for conversation and debate. Because quite simply, I think how you tell a story, and what story you're telling, matters. It's safe to say I am ultimately disappointed in this show. I don't think it stuck the landing, and there are lots of other problems re: Sol's character too, that I will probably never get into, because I'm really ready to let this show go. Perhaps on a deeper level, for me, this type of story is never going to land if not only the fandom but also the director/showrunner won't acknowledge it for what it is, either....

Anon you are always welcome in my inbox! I can tell you're genuinely open to conversation and I like that!

[short-wooloo]

I really hope that the Rey Jedi Order movie (and all post ros stuff) just do not acknowledge the kiss at all, pretend it doesn't exist, didn't happen, make it a weird blip in the larger tapestry of Rey's story, make it so when newcomers who were brought into SW by post ros stuff go back and watch the st they're all like "wait, they kissed? Why did that happen? They never mentioned this guy in Rey's Jedi Order movie or any of the other stuff, and the first two movies in this trilogy showed them as bitter enemies"

We can only hope

[redrascal1]

TLJ was going for attacking certain types of conventional white dude heroes… but was also VERY protective of other types of conventional white dude anti-heroes heroes, and in general was very clearly poking fun at what it thought of as the surface-level aspect of its targets - which is where you get people debating whether it was offensively progressive or offensively regressive.

The fact the final climactic confrontation was between two white guys while the female protagonist and black male lead were completely removed from it (and that it’s the only ST film to do so) also kind of points to it being much less provocative than it’s reputation.

For the love of sanity will this JCF Finn groupie please shut up and get a life?

Female protagonist got ALL of the glory in TROS and has a new film coming out. Black 'male lead' (conceived as sidekick but let's all ignore it) had more screen time in all three films than the last Skywalker.

This was the Skywalker saga, Finn stan. The climatic battle was between two of the last Skywalkers. You got what you wanted. TROS destroyed reylo forever and the best actor, who played the best character, has been shafted.

Considering the director for the unwanted Rey film has openly stated she enjoys making men uncomfortable I suggest you hope very much he doesn't feature in the new film, as he'll in all likelihood trashed just as Ben/Kylo was. This film is aimed at men hating toxics.

[darklinaforever]

The Darkling is also a pedo and Kylo Ren is a genocidal fascist you have zero right to talk on Aegon lmfao

The Darkling is a pedo ?

Yeah, of course. The Darkling is not a pedophile. You, the antis, really need to stop with this crap and learn the definitions of the words you use.

Aegon is on the other hand, a pedophile !

Kylo Ren / Ben Solo, has no ideology of his own when he is in the First Order / Empire. He's not there for the cause. He is there because he is manipulated from a fetus by literally hearing voices in his head, even while still an adult, who manipulated him, while being attracted to the light side. Also, Kylo Ren / Ben Solo didn't genocidate anyone !

If you tell me about the village at the beginning of the 7th, killing members of a village on a planete is not what we call genocide. And if you tell me about the planet system still in 7, it wasn't even him, but Hux and Snoke. In the film he doesn't say anything, but at the same time, what is he supposed to do against his boss ? And then, in the official novelization, he is outright opposed to this destruction...

The Darkling is a gray and complex character, who is not a real villain in the author's own words. As for Kylo Ren / Ben Solo, he is a gray and complex character who underwent manipulation / grooming, ending up obtaining redemption. I have every right to speak of them in these terms, because they are just facts. It's all facts that Aegon II is a simple antagonist / villain in the dance, literally a rapist on top of a pedophile who dies like shit, poisoned by his own camps.

Aegon is a good character who fulfills his role as a pathetic villain perfectly. Why is no one able to appreciate him as he is ?

Oh, also, anonymous person, I have every right to talk about the character of Aegon II if I want. The added thing is that I don't even talk that much about him actually, but you, who send me tons of ridiculous messages about his character. Oh and I almost forgot the most important thing :

[midgardianqueenreturns]

Maybe this is an oversimplification, I don’t want to generalize, and I really dislike “people only dislike this character because x” type of takes, but I have to say, I don’t think it’s totally a coincidence Snape and Kylo Ren look so alike and inspire very similar levels of widespread vile hatred and moral outrage from their respective fandoms. Obviously it’s not a total overlap as I’ve seen plenty of Kylo stans who are anti Snape and vice-versa, but still. I can’t help but wonder if them having very similar appearances that aren’t conventionally handsome plays a role in why their antis are so excessively hostile and unhinged in their hatred for them. Again, this is probably an oversimplification and generalization (and I don’t want to suggest *everyone* who hates Snape and/or Kylo only does so beccause of their looks), but I can’t help but notice this connection.

[mikilavellan]

Found the first ever anti hero to sweep me off my feet. I will be simping harder than a kylo ren stan to make up for every poorly written antihero to be woobified in the book.

[loganhowlctt]

from kylo stan both kylo ren and miguel o hara are tragic anti heroes and ps : i know you dislike ben solo

then why would you send this to me

[acinomthecat]

This is my favorite article

https://www.cbr.com/kylo-ren-just-as-annoying-jar-jar-binks/

[butdoireallycare]

Love how Fanon Kylo is literally just Finn's character traits repackaged + white and people eat that shit up

[brotherskywalker]

Further proof that Kylo Ren stans did not understand even a little bit of the sequel trilogy.

^^^^^^ not very subtle Space Nazis, and right in front is Kylo's right hand man and #1 lackey.

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