#anti drogo

[moonflower91]

To be completely honest

I would’ve done what Miri Maz Durr did if I were her.

You have the chance to destroy a mans budding dynasty. This man conquered your village and his men thought it was their right to rape you, and his wife thought making you her slave, was her saving you.

Then you get the chance to destroy him, his wife and his legacy.

I would’ve taken it, if I were Mirri Maz Durr.

[radical-thots]

I remember being so so proud and happy when Danny acknowledged that what she went through was not love and that the cruelty and violence directed at her by the men in her life, was not okay. I think it was that scene where she’s surrounded by Dothraki widows, and her admitting this in front of them shows how she even wants them to realize that the mistreatment they’ve been through is not okay. Something about that scene was so powerful. I don’t know if that’s because at that moment danny as a young woman was able to recognize the abuse, and call it out, even if it was months later - a reminder that the scars of abuse remains and that the victim will always remember and be traumatized by it. It must have been hard for her because her brother never treated her like a person/human and her husband raped her but he was also ‘nice’ to her - she must’ve been confused like many many victims are about whether it was abuse or not because ‘he was nice right?’. Not to mention, she was a young child when she was married off without consent. Making victims think that all is well even when the abuser abuses them but are also nice to them, is a common tactic that many abusers use. First they hurt u then gaslight u into thinking that ur okay and that it wasn’t a big deal. So, I’m so proud of Danny for standing up for herself, and making it an example for other women, allowing them to have the courage to be free from powerful abusive men. 

[doobadoobie]

all i could think when everything was done was : “this 14 year old little girl is free from her abuser and any ties to him.”

Rewatching GoT and i forgot how much i kinda agreed with the witch that killed drogo

[nyracel]

hot take maybe but the only reason most show runners/producers/writers/etc. age up the (female) characters from book to show adaptation is to overtly sexualize them and not face mass amounts of scrutiny for it.

put 13 year old daenerys next to 30 year old drogo and the audience understands that daenerys is a victim to him and not an equal. put 22 year old emilia clarke as daenerys next to 32 year old jason mamoa as drogo and they’re seen as a budding romance with a tragic ending (by the general audience) due to their on screen chemistry.

flash forward to today, and now we’re dealing with 21 year old milly alcock playing rhaenyra from 14-19 and how her relationship with (28 year old fabien) a mid twenties criston is seen as -morally acceptable- and not a result of a degenerate pedophile taking advantage of and grooming his charge. “ser criston protects the princess from her enemies, but who protects the princess from ser criston?” rhaenyra was 14 when rumors started speculating that she slept with an almost 30 year old criston. a criston who had know her since she was 8 and had been her sworn shield since she was 9. obviously seeing a teenager in the early stages of puberty next to a fully grown man would emphasize rhaenyra being THE victim, as opposed to the show having an 18-19 year old explore her sexuality and seek out ‘consensual’ sex with her peer bodyguard. the discourse has even reached the point where certain stans try to paint the much younger woman as the perpetrator and aggressor of this event, who forced the unassuming man into having sex with her.

i’ll even take this a step farther, and bring up how if they had shown a 19 year old alicent abusing a 10 year old rhaenyra it would be identified and mutually agreed upon as a reprehensible act on alicent’s part. instead they’re of similar age, so people can attempt to paint the picture as two women of equal standing hating each other, and not a much older woman bullying a motherless child. once again however, some stans even go so far as to try and paint alicent as a victim of rhaenyra, and not the other way around. further cementing this is how both versions of alicent are younger than both versions of rhaenyra, AND how criston is still played by an actor who is younger than older!rhaenyra despite his character being the same age as daemon in canon.

they know exactly what they’re doing too, considering they aged alicent down to give her that innate compassion one typically feels when seeing children being abused on tv (something that can no longer be applied to rhaenyra). despite that never being her story; *she* was the abuser, and rhaenyra was her victim. criston’s victim. it’s a nasty cop out, and i wish more people would call out how sickening it is to flip the switch and attempt to make abusive individuals more sympathetic than the *actual* victims of said abusers.

[atopvisenyashill]

since i’m rhaegar posting i do think it’s likely that “being in love” will be part of the story just the same as george likes to refer to dany & drogo as a romance. i think george likes these kind of,,,,romantic abusive situations where a young girl will fall in love with a man who is older & obviously harmful to her because he likes to explore the sort of mindset you’d have to be in to force yourself to fall in love in that case.

but the same way that the line about “she had just turned 14” is there to freak you out for a REASON, the same way Sansa loves “Petyr” but doesn’t enjoy “Littlefinger”, I think that Rhaegar is going to have several motivations as to why he makes off with Lyanna and they won’t be particularly romantic! I think they will be prophecy related, and deeply disturbing, and I think by the time Ned finds Lyanna in the Tower of Joy, her opinion on this and on Rhaegar will have changed significantly! And regardless of how the characters feel about each other,,,,,,,this is still a horrific and terrible thing that Rhaegar does to Lyanna and his “love” for her does not matter to me when it winds up getting her killed! Love is not an excuse!!

[fromtheseventhhell]

it’s honestly disgusting how so many people will defend mirri maz duur forcing an abortion on a 13 year old dany as if forced abortion isn’t a very real reproductive rights issue that affects tons of women in the real world, like seeing people defend or make light of that is genuinely so gross

What gets me is that they'll defend her actions but they're too cowardly to talk about what exactly Mirri did to Dany. They tip-toe around the fact that she forced a painful abortion onto Dany, for a child she wanted, by tricking her into believing that she could heal Drogo. Truthfully I would've had no issue if she had only murdered Drogo but she didn't stop there. And then her being a slave is supposed to excuse everything but then they ignore that Dany was a bridal slave and her being sold to Drogo is mentioned several times throughout the story. From George's own words, Dany didn't have the authority to stop the Dothraki from taking slaves. The only thing she could do to intervene was take them as her personal slaves and offer them some protection. They use Dany's lack of agency to justify Mirri harming her and it's so nasty.

[mossytrashcan]

rewatching got and dany looks lowkey afraid of drogo and I’m gonna kill everyone

[laurellerual]

Hello!! What are your top 3 favorite and 3 least favorite ASOIAF ships?

I'm a basic person, I love mostly canonical and unproblematic ships.

Love:

Arya x Gendry (obv). I mean come on, If Martin didn't want me to ship them he could have done without writing all the tropes of the romance genre on them. I can't tell you it will end well, but I can tell you it will happen.

Jaime x Brienne. My first asoiaf ship. I think it's very difficult to write this kind of interaction while we can read both characters' thoughts, but it's so well crafted.

Renly x Loras. When the sun has set, no candle can replace it…

The only ships I love, but I'm sure will never happen are Aegon/young Griff x Shireen and Jon x Satin (!).

Hate:

Jon x Sansa. It wouldn't be number one if it wasn't so popular in the fandom. Plenty of characters share themes or parallels, but that doesn't mean they're going to fuck.

Jaqen x Arya. I like most Arya ships, but this one makes me want to puke. It's wrong on so many levels.

Drogo x Dany. I don't think all ships have to be romantic necessarily, but this is… (sorry George) a girl who convinces herself she's in love with her rapist because the reality is too hard to process.

[springs-hurts]

Ah the irony, Daenerys Targaryen, first of her name and whatever, wanted to free slaves, worked toward that goal so determinedly and yet she met one of her most precious friends and a trusted advisor only because he was caught selling poachers into slavery! Oh gods I love Jorah, I like him but it's so funny😭😭😭

Also, if not for slavery, he might have(no might needed here tho) remained in bear islands, and would have been saying "we know no king but the king in the North whose name is Stark" With Lyanna Mormont😭😂

[muiltifandomnerd]

Don’t forget about people shipping Sansa with Sandor.

people ship khal drogo and jorah with dany and tyrion with sansa… HELLO! CHRIS HANSEN!

[agentrouka-blog]

Do you think Drogo has more impact (negative and positive) on Dany than Ygritte on Jon?

Oh, absolutely.

Remove Ygritte, and Jon is a brother of the Night's Watch who either died in the line of duty in the Frost Fangs or managed to worm his way into the wildling group under Qorin Halfhand's instructions. He'd still learn about wildling culture from people like Tormund, he'd still understand their humanity through observation, he'd still remain loyal to the Watch, he'd escape if possible, fight them, make pacts with them... he'd simply lack the experience of being sexually coerced and feeling a great deal of shame about it.

Remove Drogo, and Dany is Viserys's little sister, his pawn and punching bag, no dragon egg in sight, and her path to agency might have looked very very very different, if it happened at all. Her misery and internal transformation, not to mention the acquisition of political power and the dragon eggs both, are integral to her character development and her plot.

Dany's plot begins with the connection to Drogo for a reason, while Ygritte is an episode in Jon's plot, which kicks off with leaving his home as they all part ways in the wake of Robert's visit.

[atopvisenyashill]

do you think there's sufficient evidence in fire and blood's text that rodrik arryn raped daella, even if non-violently and under the sanctity of marriage? i just scrolled through a bunch of reddit arguments on whether or not rodrik and daella's marriage was truly romantic, consensual, and egalitarian one and i know you're the only person who'll answer this question fairly.

I think that these questions about "is there a way to meaningfully consent in this situation where a teenager marries an adult" are like, fundamentally silly. The answer is just objectively no, and it doesn't really matter how you slice it. This is my most firmly "anti" stance and it's not one I'm ever willing to budge on; this is not to say that there isn't some level of romanticism going on in these relationships, but I think it's just goofy and disingenuous to pretend like being 15 and married to a man your father's age doesn't have a massive impact on your growth, maturity, and relationship with sex. Especially in this series where we often do follow these relationships to their very end points, whether happy or tragic, it's just like, supremely stupid to ignore the shady ways that they started out. The age and maturity gap is part of the dynamic! It informs it!

It's not to say these relationships don't have romanticism baked in; I tend to categorize them as "surprisingly healthy" "romantic and destructive" and "completely destructive." I think Rhaenys and Corlys fall under the first one, Dany and Drogo are in the second one, and Lysa and Jon Arryn are in the third. Rhaenys & Corlys aren't excused from having some clear issues in their marriage (hello the Marilda affair and succession issue!!!!) just because their marriage is more or less healthy and consensual, but at the same time, it's silly to pretend like there isn't a romantic element to Dany & Drogo's relationship - the argument here is simply that the destructive element far outweighs the romantic one (and also,,,,, Drogo is simply not a deep character, he doesn't have a character outside of violent warlord but that's a whole other rant). And of course, the Jon-Lysa marriage is just completely destructive to Lysa's sense of self, not to mention the crazy political ramifications of Jon freezing Lysa out.

Now this specific situation....I mean what romanticism is there even to speak about lmao?? first of all, can't point out enough how ddeeply deranged jaehaerys is about this whole thing:

Her sixteenth nameday was fast approaching, and with it her womanhood. Queen Alysanne was at her wit’s end, and the king had lost his patience. On the first day of the 80th year since Aegon’s Conquest, he told the queen he wanted Daella wed before the year’s end. “If she wants I can find a hundred men and line them up before her naked, and she can pick the one she likes,” he said. “I would sooner she wed a lord, but if she prefers a hedge knight or a merchant or Pate the Pig Boy, I am past the point of caring, so long as she picks someone.” “A hundred naked men would frighten her,” Alysanne said, unamused. “A hundred naked ducks would frighten her,” the king replied. “And if she will not wed?” the queen asked. “Maegelle says the Faith will not want a girl who cannot read her prayers.” “There are still the silent sisters,” said Jaehaerys. “Must it come to that? Find her someone. Someone gentle, as she is. A kind man, who will never raise his voice or his hand to her, who will speak to her sweetly and tell her she is precious and protect her…against dragons and horses and bees and kittens and boys with boils and whatever else she fears.”

She's not even 16!!!! Hardly an old maid even by their standards - remember that Catelyn and Brandon's betrothal was made when she was 12 but they didn't set a date until 282, when she was 17 going on 18!!! And there's just no reason why Daella should be rushed into marriage given how many older siblings she has; I mean it's not like they were rushing Lollys Stokeworth into marriage until after her rape during the riot and she was 33, and a lot of that is because she is "simple" and Tanda Stokeworth clearly wants to wait for a husband who is willing to care for her properly. Both Jaehaerys and Gyldayn try to absolve Jaehaerys of responsibility here but there's just no good reason to be threatening to send Daella to the freaking SILENT SISTERS just because she's 15 and doesn't seem interested in marriage. Goofy, silly, noxious behavior here. But moving on to Rodrik.

Queen Alysanne admitted, “but he is the sort you asked for, a kind and gentle man, and he says that he has loved our little girl for years. I know he will protect her.” To the astonishment of every woman at the court, save mayhaps the queen, Princess Daella chose Lord Rodrik to be her husband. “He seems good and wise, like Father,” she told Queen Alysanne, “and he has four children! I’m to be their new mother!” What Her Grace thought of that outburst is not recorded. Grand Maester Elysar’s account of the day says only, “Gods be good.” ...Nor was there a bedding. “Oh, I could not bear that, I should die of shame,” the princess had told her husband to be, and Lord Rodrik had acceded to her wishes. Afterward, Lord Arryn took his princess back to the Eyrie. “My children need to meet their new mother, and I want to show the Vale to Daella. Life is slower there, and quieter. She will like that. I swear to you, Your Grace, she will be safe and happy.”

There's a few red flags here and a few okay things here. I think it's very odd that Daella's excitement at being a stepmother is considered an outburst that Alysanne mislikes and that Grand Maester Elysar says "gods be good." Weird to me idk!! Also, sorry, don't care about the time period, it's weird that he says he's loved her for years (and Corlys is weird for the Rhaenys/Marilda stuff, make no mistake!!!) BUT he doesn't force a bedding on her and he mentions taking her to the Vale because it's quieter, which is honestly a nice thing for Daella, who hates large crowds and court in general. This feels, initially, not dissimilar to like, the Sansa-Willas thing; is it shady? Yes, objectively. But that doesn't mean it has to be an unpleasant marriage, and something strong can grow there. However...

And so she was, for a time. The eldest of Lord Rodrik’s four children from his first wife was a daughter, Elys, three years older than her new stepmother. The two of them clashed from the first. Daella doted on the three younger children, however, and they seemed to adore her in turn. Lord Rodrik, true to his word, was a kind and caring husband who never failed to pamper and protect the bride he called “my precious princess.” Such letters as Daella sent her mother (letters largely written for her by Lord Rodrik’s younger daughter, Amanda) spoke glowingly of how happy she was, how beautiful the Vale, how much she loved her lord’s sweet sons, how everyone in the Eyrie was so kind to her... In the Vale, however, her sister Daella was not doing near as well. After a year and a half of marriage, a different sort of message arrived at the Red Keep by raven. It was very short, and written in Daella’s own uncertain hand. “I am with child,” it said. “Mother, please come. I am frightened.”

Though the princess professed delight that her mother had come, and apologized for sending her such a “silly” letter, her fear was palpable. She burst into tears for the slightest reason, and sometimes for no reason at all, Lord Rodrik said. His daughter Elys was dismissive, telling Her Grace, “You would think she was the first woman ever to have a baby,” but Alysanne was concerned... She was half right. Aemma Arryn, the daughter of Lord Rodrik and Princess Daella, came into the world a fortnight early, after a long and troubled labor. “It hurts,” the princess screamed through half the night. “It hurts so much.” But it is said she smiled when her daughter was laid against her breast. Everything was far from fine, however. Childbed fever set in soon after birth. Though Princess Daella desperately wished to nurse her child, she had no milk, and a wet nurse was sent for. As her fever rose, the maester decreed that she might not even hold her babe, which set the princess to weeping. She wept until she fell asleep, but in her sleep she kicked wildly and tossed and turned, her fever rising ever higher. By morning she was gone. She was eighteen years of age. Lord Rodrik wept as well, and begged the queen’s permission to bury his precious princess in the Vale, but Alysanne refused. “She was the blood of the dragon. She will be burned, and her ashes interred on Dragonstone beside her sister Daenerys.”

So to break this down Daella

Clashes with Rodrik's oldest immensely with Elys being quite cruel and in my opinion incredibly out of pocket when Alysanne gets there for what seems to be no real reason

Her letters are all written by Rodrik or Amanda and they are all glowing

FInally sends her own letter in her own hand and all it says is "i'm scared"

Immediately backtracks and says the letter was "silly"

Has started crying at odd times, something she didn't do before

This feels bad. This feels suspicious. This feels like Daella is regressing mentally and her correspondence is being controlled by her husband. Like Elys and likely Amanda are not very understanding of her needs, or her fears. She doesn't profess any sort of love for Rodrik to her mother's face, and Amanda despite being "close" to her isn't here to comfort Daella as she's having a troubled pregnancy. Then she dies.

The marriage barely lasts long enough to establish any sort of romanticism and what's there is bleak and confusing. It doesn't even feel like a Stockholm-y Dany/Drogo situation, where Daella simply forces herself to love a husband that is cruel to her; Daella does not seem particularly close to anyone in the Vale and Alysanne seems so suspicious of the whole thing that she not only inters Daella on Dragonstone, she also seems to have raised Aemma herself. She doesn't seem to give a single shit about Rodrik's grief here. Maybe that's just Alysanne being Alysanne but the fact that Gyldayn straight up says she's blaming Jaehaerys and Rodrik due to "pride" and Gyldayn is a nasty odious misogynist, I think it's very likely that Alysanne picked up on some really bad vibes from the Arryn family and the situation Daella was in.

To me, this is a Jon/Lysa redux. This is "what happens if Lysa was sickly and Jon married her." There doesn't seem to be any real care put into taking care of her, there seems to have been an active conspiracy to isolate her from her mother, and Elys is cruel to her for no reason. There's no romantic elements here for me, not even of the "toxic twin flame" or grooming variety; Daella is forced to marry, Daella is isolated from her family and impregnated, and Daella dies. I think at best Rodrik was hoping to get his blood on the throne in a generation or two and what he wept for was not the loss of a wife he loved but the loss of station when he saw just how pissed off Alysanne was about the whole ordeal. There's just nothing in the text to convince me that Rodrik was genuine or that Daella had fallen in love with him.

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

Why do Dany antis think Dany gave herself her titles? Like the amount of times people rant about how she must be "so conceited" to have all those titles, like do they not know how titles work in ASOIAF? This is rhetorical of course, I know the answer, hatred of her character and that shit show. So, since D&D chose not to explain to them in simple terms how titles come to be and how Dany earned hers, I will (don't worry, I'll use small words since they so clearly struggle with media literacy).

So how do titles work in ASOIAF? Simple, their awarded by others. If someone gives themself a title it's not acknowledged by others, simple Medieval European rules. We see examples in Aegon the Conqueror, Maegor the Cruel Jaehaerys the Conciliator, Rhaenyra the Realm's Delight/Black Queen, Aegon the Usurper, Aegon the Unlucky, Baelor the Blessed, Daeron the Young Dragon, Aegon the Unworthy, Aemon the Dragonknight, Daeron the Good, Aegon the Unlikely, and Aerys the Mad King. Yes, I decided to do all Targaryen examples, because why not use Dany's family.

Each of these titles were given because of the attributes or accomplishments of their owners. Aegon I conquered the Seven Kingdoms, Maegor usurped and killed his family members (and much more), Jaehaerys stabilized the kingdom, Rhaenyra was greatly loved by the realm as a child and her faction were called the Blacks after her clothing. I could explain everyone on the list, but that would take forever and we have a lot to get to. However, I believe I have made my point about titles, they are given, sometimes posthumously, by those around them because of what that person has done or what they're like.

Dany's titles are no different, she earned them and/or was given them by those around her. These titles are: Stormborn, Princess of Dragonstone, Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, the Unburnt, Mother of Dragons, and Breaker of Shackles/Chains. I'm going to go in order and say how she got these titles, since apparently that needs explaining. I'll even go into Queen of the Seven Kingdoms (etc) and Queen of Meereen, in case someone wants to bring that up.

Stormborn was given to her by her mother, Queen Rhaella, upon Dany's birth, same for Princess of Dragonstone actually. Dany was born on the night of a terrible storm that destroyed what was left of the Targaryen fleet. She was also born after her family had been almost wiped out and Westeros was in the middle of massive civil upheaval. Hence, Stormborn. Now, Rhaella and Viserys both believed he and Dany were the rightful heirs to the throne after Aerys and Rhaegar's deaths, so Viserys was crowned king of the Seven Kingdoms and Dany was made his heir until he had children. The heir to the throne was traditionally given the title of prince/princess of Dragonstone, so that's why Dany was given it.

Fast forward thirteen (or sixteen in the show) years and Dany is married off to Khal Drogo, this marriage makes her a Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea. And since the position of Khaleesi is a bit of a lifetime thing, since after the Khal's death they join the Dosh Khaleen. Therefore, Dany will carry the title of Khaleesi for the rest of her life. She also became the leader of her own Khalasar, making the female equivalent of Khal an appropriate title.

But before she gained her Khalasar, she earned the titles Unburnt and Mother of Dragons on the same occasion. This was, of course, when she woke her dragons from stone. Dany walked into the fire of Drogo's pyre and was unscathed (except for her hair in the book). Because of that her people called her the Unburnt and told others. As for Mother of Dragons, Jorah and her Khalasar call her this first, then it spreads to Qarth, Astapor, and eventually Westeros. As for where it came from, well, she literally hatched three dragons that nursed from her (book).

Next up, the Breaker of Shackles/Chains. This is a title Dany earned after the events of Astapor, where she freed the Unsullied and helped lead a city-wide slave revolt. More specifically this name came from her order to the Unsullied, "Strike the chains off every slave you see," After the events in Astapor, the Unsullied and other slaves named her the Breaker of Shackles/Chains. This name spread across Slaver's Bay, to the rest of Essos and Westeros. Dany makes this name into an official title as a warning to the slavers, she is coming to free the people they enslaved. In Meereen, it's used as a reminder of the new order she was instituting, one that wasn't built on the backs of slaves. In Westeros it's a sign of her achievements and shows her intentions, to help the downtrodden and oppressed, even though the show decided to throw that out the window to "subvert expectations".

Now, Queen of the Seven Kingdoms, etc, and Queen of Meereen are the only titles that it could be argued she gave herself. However, Queen of the Seven Kingdoms is her inheritance, at least she was taught it was (if you want to argue about new dynasties and such). She was Viserys' heir, so, when he died, his titles and responsibilities were passed to here. This means that technically the title was given to her lol, but she did choose to pursue it. After all, she was raised by Viserys to believe it was not only her birthright but also her duty to retake Westeros for first Rhaego, then herself. We see this line and thinking time and again in her chapters,

"If I were not the blood of the dragon...this could be my home." (AGOT) This is said about staying in the Dothraki Sea, and the same quote comes up in Meereen. Dany wants a simple life, the house with the red door, but she rejects it because she believes it's her duty to take the IT, her responsibility to her family.

A similar sense of duty is what drives Dany to take Meereen and rule it. At this point Yunkai has fallen back into slavery and Astapor is falling apart, so Dany learns from her previous choices and chooses to stay in Meereen to try to ensure the slaves she freed there don't fall back into slavery. Now the show really fucked up her storyline in Meereen, by removing the threats of Yunkai, Qarth, and Volantis as well as greatly reducing the actions of the Harpy and just straight up trying to make Hizdahr a "good guy". But both in the show and the books, Dany takes Meereen because of the rapant injustice of slavery, why is that so hated by certain parts of the fandom? Well the answer to that is because hatred of Dany is so deep in some people that they will demonize everything she does, even the things that are objectively right. This mentality causes them to be willfully blind to her titles and their significance.

Dany's titles were made to set her apart from her ancestors and contemporaries. The show damaged this by neglecting to actually show how titles work and by not giving any new ones to people who deserve them (Jon Snow for example). But either way, her titles show how Dany has done more in her sixteen years of life (about 20-22) than almost anyone else has done in their 40+. Her titles are signs of how respected and loved she is by her people, they are reasons her enemies should fear her, and they demonstrate how inspiring her character is, no matter how the shit show ruined her.

[kuramirocket]

It'a also why s8 was so stupid and didn't even work on selling dark!dany. Dany antis state that Dany is power hungry, yet she herself says she wanted to break the wheel together with Jon.

Arya says Jon will "always be a threat" to her. Yet, the same script states Dany felt relaxed and secure with him.

Make it make sense!

why do you think most of the ASOIAF fandom and ASOIAF meta blogs dislike Daenerys and have a very thinly veiled distaste for her. many of them also seem to forget how young she is and her earlier life circumstances. i just wish they’d come out and openly express their hatred rather than pretending to tolerate her.

I honestly don’t understand it either. And many of those people will defend other characters because they are young, but at the same time will ignore the fact that Dany is also young, and unlike the other characters, she didn’t have a formal education, didn’t have a home and a family to take care of her or teach her, and is also in probably the most difficult political situation in ASOIAF. They will ignore all of this while also defending their faves because they are “young” and people shouldn’t be so hard on them, but Dany has to be perfect, and if she’s not, then she’s evil and stupid blah blah…

Really, I don’t think any of Dany’s few “questionable actions” warrants the hate that she gets. Which is what makes me think that the reason for the fandom’s dislike of Dany has nothing to do with Dany’s actions. It has to do with other things: she’s a threat to their faves getting power; she’s a threat to their ships; her story is separated from the main story, so people don’t care about her and think her story is boring; she is a girl that threatens to have more narrative importance and steal the spotlight of their male faves; she’s a girl that could end up being more important, the main hero, and the one that gets it all in the end, when people wanted their male faves to do it; she’s a girl and people are sexist, so they use double standards, prejudices and stereotypes while analysing her character; and finally, her political beliefs are very leftist and many consider them to be “radical” and “extremist”, and many people believe this to be a bad thing, so they expect the classic narrative that says that revolutionaries are actually bad and self serving.

With all of these factors for hate combined into the same character, I kind of understand why she gets so much hate. But not really. I don’t understand the Dany hate at all. She doesn’t deserve it.

[horizon-verizon]

This is gonna be controversial, but MANY theories on here and Reddit essentially boil down to “everything Daenerys achieved by herself was there so that she can, at the very last moment, give it to Jon Snow so that he’s a true hero of the story”. And barely anyone realizes how weird, misogynistic and anticlimactic all of this would be. I’d say the majority of the fandom actually believes it with no questioning.

Daenerys fulfilling the prophecy of Azor Ahai before we even know about it, being the only candidate who actually woke dragons from stone as the prophecy requires ? Her having prophetic dragon dreams where she witnesses dead kings holding swords of pale fire as she runs from icy breath that would cause her a death worse than death ? Drogo clearly being her Nissa Nissa and Drogon being Lightbringer (she puts Drogon’s egg next to his heart) ? Her being the one to hear of all the prophecies like the dragon has three heads ? Her anti-slavery campaign being a very obvious precedence for her liberating those enslaved to the army of the dead (she has a dream about being Rhaegar on the Trident and seeing Robert’s host MADE OUT OF ICE right before her maneuver with Kraznys ???) ? Her being compared to Aegon the Conqueror, clearly putting her in the centre of the three heads of the dragon ? Maester Aemon lamenting that no one ever looked for a girl ?

Nope, scratch that, prophecy is tricky and it’s too obvious for it to be Daenerys, hence it’s going to happen verbatim, Jon will skewer her on his sword and be the true hero because he has a right set of genetics.

People may hate what I’m about to say, but GRRM talked extensively about how he wanted to play with gendered expectations and subversions with her character: he made her into a female khal who has bloodriders and wears bells in her hair; the crones in the Dosh Khaleen likely saw HER in their prophecies but wrongfully announced her son Rhaego to be the Stallion because of their patriarchal views; she is called Aegon the Conqueror with Teats... but all of this was meant to be one giant red herring and he’s going to reverse it one last moment and have her be another woman killed so that a man can be sad/become a hero ?

I despise it with a passion. “No one ever looked for a girl” ? Well, apparently they were right to do so.

People would rather take really bad writing than accept that a woman/girl is the magical heart (if not the primary) of the series they really like, esp if they thought it was a "manly" series. It is known.

[rhaenin-time]

Dany isn't a "white saviour" as we understand them in our world.

It's hard to explain so I'll leave it at this for now:

She's what a "white saviour" pictures themselves as, what they model themselves after, but she, herself, is not a "white saviour." The context needed for her to be a "white saviour" does not apply; it's debatable if it even really exists in ASOIAF.

A "white saviour" is someone who benefits from oppression, and wants a pat on the back for playing hero by "softening" that oppression for a day. The closest she gets to "white saviour" territory is actually in book 1 when she protects the women from Drogo's men. And even then, she had little agency to do anything further, was far more helpful than most "white saviours" could ever dream of, and most importantly, that's when she learns you can't hide behind small mercies in unjust systems; you need to ABOLISH the unjust systems.

If anything, her early arc is literally an anti "white saviour" arc. Because "white saviours" don't use their power to abolish unjust systems. The unjust systems are the SOURCE of their power, and they use their power to hide their complicity behind the very small mercies Dany knows to be insufficient.