#anti drogo
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To be completely honest
I would’ve done what Miri Maz Durr did if I were her.
You have the chance to destroy a mans budding dynasty. This man conquered your village and his men thought it was their right to rape you, and his wife thought making you her slave, was her saving you.
Then you get the chance to destroy him, his wife and his legacy.
I would’ve taken it, if I were Mirri Maz Durr.
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all i could think when everything was done was : “this 14 year old little girl is free from her abuser and any ties to him.”
Rewatching GoT and i forgot how much i kinda agreed with the witch that killed drogo
#i clapped when he died#anti drogo#mirri freed dany too in a way#pro daenerys#my little girl has been through way too much
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hot take maybe but the only reason most show runners/producers/writers/etc. age up the (female) characters from book to show adaptation is to overtly sexualize them and not face mass amounts of scrutiny for it.
put 13 year old daenerys next to 30 year old drogo and the audience understands that daenerys is a victim to him and not an equal. put 22 year old emilia clarke as daenerys next to 32 year old jason mamoa as drogo and they’re seen as a budding romance with a tragic ending (by the general audience) due to their on screen chemistry.
flash forward to today, and now we’re dealing with 21 year old milly alcock playing rhaenyra from 14-19 and how her relationship with (28 year old fabien) a mid twenties criston is seen as -morally acceptable- and not a result of a degenerate pedophile taking advantage of and grooming his charge. “ser criston protects the princess from her enemies, but who protects the princess from ser criston?” rhaenyra was 14 when rumors started speculating that she slept with an almost 30 year old criston. a criston who had know her since she was 8 and had been her sworn shield since she was 9. obviously seeing a teenager in the early stages of puberty next to a fully grown man would emphasize rhaenyra being THE victim, as opposed to the show having an 18-19 year old explore her sexuality and seek out ‘consensual’ sex with her peer bodyguard. the discourse has even reached the point where certain stans try to paint the much younger woman as the perpetrator and aggressor of this event, who forced the unassuming man into having sex with her.
i’ll even take this a step farther, and bring up how if they had shown a 19 year old alicent abusing a 10 year old rhaenyra it would be identified and mutually agreed upon as a reprehensible act on alicent’s part. instead they’re of similar age, so people can attempt to paint the picture as two women of equal standing hating each other, and not a much older woman bullying a motherless child. once again however, some stans even go so far as to try and paint alicent as a victim of rhaenyra, and not the other way around. further cementing this is how both versions of alicent are younger than both versions of rhaenyra, AND how criston is still played by an actor who is younger than older!rhaenyra despite his character being the same age as daemon in canon.
they know exactly what they’re doing too, considering they aged alicent down to give her that innate compassion one typically feels when seeing children being abused on tv (something that can no longer be applied to rhaenyra). despite that never being her story; *she* was the abuser, and rhaenyra was her victim. criston’s victim. it’s a nasty cop out, and i wish more people would call out how sickening it is to flip the switch and attempt to make abusive individuals more sympathetic than the *actual* victims of said abusers.
#asoiaf#game of thrones#fire and blood#house of the dragon#got critical#hotd critical#daenerys targaryen#pro daenerys targaryen#rhaenyra targaryen#pro rhaenyra targaryen#team black#anti khal drogo#anti criston cole#anti alicent hightower#anti team green#anti team green stans#anti ryan condal#anti sara hess#this isn’t even including them aging the dragon twins + jace and luke#up to victimize aem*nd#he was beating the boys brutally in the books and was stated to be much older and stronger than them#the twins weren’t even involved#but now it’s 4 kids almost the same age as him beating him up#poor woe is him#but he still defeated all of them and screamed death threats at grieving children#it’s an all around fucked up scenario#and if i catch those two in the streets they’re done for#i have very… strong… feelings about this subject :/
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extremely rare asoiaf pinterest W
#asoiaf#game of thrones#a song of ice and fire#khal drogo#jorah mormont#anti jorah mormont#walder frey#the mountain#gregor clegane#anti hound#anti sandor clegane#anti sansan#house of the dragon#hotd#anti daemon targaryen#anti viserys targaryen#op ATE w this one#the frenzy this caused lol#anti corlys#s@ns@ns fighting for their life in the comments 🥱#petyr baelish#anti petsa#littlefinger#anti corlys valeryon
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since i’m rhaegar posting i do think it’s likely that “being in love” will be part of the story just the same as george likes to refer to dany & drogo as a romance. i think george likes these kind of,,,,romantic abusive situations where a young girl will fall in love with a man who is older & obviously harmful to her because he likes to explore the sort of mindset you’d have to be in to force yourself to fall in love in that case.
but the same way that the line about “she had just turned 14” is there to freak you out for a REASON, the same way Sansa loves “Petyr” but doesn’t enjoy “Littlefinger”, I think that Rhaegar is going to have several motivations as to why he makes off with Lyanna and they won’t be particularly romantic! I think they will be prophecy related, and deeply disturbing, and I think by the time Ned finds Lyanna in the Tower of Joy, her opinion on this and on Rhaegar will have changed significantly! And regardless of how the characters feel about each other,,,,,,,this is still a horrific and terrible thing that Rhaegar does to Lyanna and his “love” for her does not matter to me when it winds up getting her killed! Love is not an excuse!!
#anti rhaelya#like it’s always ‘well george’ okay but death of the author bro i’m not saying we should always ignore the author but what he says about#drogo and what he writes on the page are two different things. use your critical thinking skills#getting on my soap box#okay i’m done talking about this for like a month tune in next time i go on a ‘rhaegar is a dumb bitch’ rant ig
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it’s honestly disgusting how so many people will defend mirri maz duur forcing an abortion on a 13 year old dany as if forced abortion isn’t a very real reproductive rights issue that affects tons of women in the real world, like seeing people defend or make light of that is genuinely so gross
What gets me is that they'll defend her actions but they're too cowardly to talk about what exactly Mirri did to Dany. They tip-toe around the fact that she forced a painful abortion onto Dany, for a child she wanted, by tricking her into believing that she could heal Drogo. Truthfully I would've had no issue if she had only murdered Drogo but she didn't stop there. And then her being a slave is supposed to excuse everything but then they ignore that Dany was a bridal slave and her being sold to Drogo is mentioned several times throughout the story. From George's own words, Dany didn't have the authority to stop the Dothraki from taking slaves. The only thing she could do to intervene was take them as her personal slaves and offer them some protection. They use Dany's lack of agency to justify Mirri harming her and it's so nasty.
#ask#anon#daenerys targaryen#anti daenerys bs#/she could've freed them/ as per George no she couldn't have!#and Drogo's Khalasar wasn't even responsible for the initial attack but Dany antis ignore that#cause their only motivation is to hate her they don't care about Mirri outside of that
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rewatching got and dany looks lowkey afraid of drogo and I’m gonna kill everyone
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Hello!! What are your top 3 favorite and 3 least favorite ASOIAF ships?
I'm a basic person, I love mostly canonical and unproblematic ships.
Love:
Arya x Gendry (obv). I mean come on, If Martin didn't want me to ship them he could have done without writing all the tropes of the romance genre on them. I can't tell you it will end well, but I can tell you it will happen.
Jaime x Brienne. My first asoiaf ship. I think it's very difficult to write this kind of interaction while we can read both characters' thoughts, but it's so well crafted.
Renly x Loras. When the sun has set, no candle can replace it…
The only ships I love, but I'm sure will never happen are Aegon/young Griff x Shireen and Jon x Satin (!).
Hate:
Jon x Sansa. It wouldn't be number one if it wasn't so popular in the fandom. Plenty of characters share themes or parallels, but that doesn't mean they're going to fuck.
Jaqen x Arya. I like most Arya ships, but this one makes me want to puke. It's wrong on so many levels.
Drogo x Dany. I don't think all ships have to be romantic necessarily, but this is… (sorry George) a girl who convinces herself she's in love with her rapist because the reality is too hard to process.
#asoiaf#asoiaf ships#arya x gendry#jaime x brienne#renly x loras#braime#gendrya#anti jonsa#anti drogo x dany#anti jaqen x arya
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Ah the irony, Daenerys Targaryen, first of her name and whatever, wanted to free slaves, worked toward that goal so determinedly and yet she met one of her most precious friends and a trusted advisor only because he was caught selling poachers into slavery! Oh gods I love Jorah, I like him but it's so funny😭😭😭
Also, if not for slavery, he might have(no might needed here tho) remained in bear islands, and would have been saying "we know no king but the king in the North whose name is Stark" With Lyanna Mormont😭😂
#I am talking about the show here#but damn it's funny#and so full of ironies#khal drogo#her beloved#he wanted to rape westerosi women#he wanted to take men as slaves#and after all this#you want me to believe#she'd have won iron Throne?#you really want me to believe that?#lol#big lol#anti daenerys#yeah#game of thrones#haven't read the books so coming to conclusion gonna take some time#but show?#lmao no way she was winning that throne#blud couldn't even sit on it for a moment 🤣😭#i don't hate dany#but damn if i like her#hell naah#her scenes were good#I'll admit that#well her dragons' scenes but you get it#anyway#cutting this rant short#daenerys targaryen#jorah mormont
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Don’t forget about people shipping Sansa with Sandor.
people ship khal drogo and jorah with dany and tyrion with sansa… HELLO! CHRIS HANSEN!
#daenerys targaryen#sansa stark#pro daenerys targaryen#pro sansa stark#anti khal drogo#anti jorah mormont#anti tyrion lannister#anti drogo x daenerys#anti jorleesi#anti sanrion#anti sansan#anti sandor
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I've actually been meaning to ask this so might as well lol, but why are there such different readings on Dany as the exception, or antithesis as you put it and as the culmination or the best of her house especially since it doesn’t split neatly dowm a anti or pro Targaryen stance. I'll see fans who love Dany and even the Targaryens but still think she's the antithesis and fans who hate Dany but still think she's different from the rest of her house. I honestly reads very random to me.
i tried answering this but i'm just not familiar with any antithesis readings of her which are not interpreting 300 years of targaryen history as a reign of a series of bad actors. and like, in a sense, it would also be incorrect to say she's not different from her ancestors. she's using the symbol of her house, of the claim to her ancestors' power, for the dismantling of an oppressive institution in slaver's bay. some of the antithesis readings are probably coming from there. and she's obviously, deliberately written to contrast aerys, who was symbolic of their dynasty in its death throes, having lost all their magic and grandeur—especially through his obsession with wildfire, which aims to mimic dragonfire but is a poor substitute for it. but i don't find much value in criticising the targaryens before her for having used the dragons the way they did—because they were all kings with the priorities of kings, and dany's characterisation follows from theirs, not as a reversal, but as something that builds upon 300 years of history. asoiaf is asking how do you wield power judiciously within an unjust hierarchy, and all the targaryens before her are involved in answering that question. notably, egg, whose formative years spent among the smallfolk made him conscious of his place in that power hierarchy and what responsibility he owed the people because of it. dany follows from there, except grrm also others her in the first book when viserys sells her to drogo. unlike most of her ancestors, dany has experience with dehumanisation. how violence is enacted upon outsiders, those who live on the margins of society, who don't fit normative social codes. but this is true for a number of our pov characters, the ones the series terms "cripples, bastards, and broken things". bran, tyrion, jon, arya, brienne, even sansa (once she becomes a traitor's daughter and no longer fits the perfect image of a chivalric maiden) have all been made familiar with the systemic violence of the world they live in through an act(s) of violence against them, which makes them all especially conscious of prejudices in a way most highborn people in westeros aren't. it's what i said about ned, that his children's heroic tendencies are different from him, which is not a condemnation of ned, simply the narrative transitioning from an older kind of fantasy hero to a new archetype(s). dany too, is inheriting rhaegar's legacy—whose dream of spring had been false, but perhaps this time they'll make it true.
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do you think there's sufficient evidence in fire and blood's text that rodrik arryn raped daella, even if non-violently and under the sanctity of marriage? i just scrolled through a bunch of reddit arguments on whether or not rodrik and daella's marriage was truly romantic, consensual, and egalitarian one and i know you're the only person who'll answer this question fairly.
I think that these questions about "is there a way to meaningfully consent in this situation where a teenager marries an adult" are like, fundamentally silly. The answer is just objectively no, and it doesn't really matter how you slice it. This is my most firmly "anti" stance and it's not one I'm ever willing to budge on; this is not to say that there isn't some level of romanticism going on in these relationships, but I think it's just goofy and disingenuous to pretend like being 15 and married to a man your father's age doesn't have a massive impact on your growth, maturity, and relationship with sex. Especially in this series where we often do follow these relationships to their very end points, whether happy or tragic, it's just like, supremely stupid to ignore the shady ways that they started out. The age and maturity gap is part of the dynamic! It informs it!
It's not to say these relationships don't have romanticism baked in; I tend to categorize them as "surprisingly healthy" "romantic and destructive" and "completely destructive." I think Rhaenys and Corlys fall under the first one, Dany and Drogo are in the second one, and Lysa and Jon Arryn are in the third. Rhaenys & Corlys aren't excused from having some clear issues in their marriage (hello the Marilda affair and succession issue!!!!) just because their marriage is more or less healthy and consensual, but at the same time, it's silly to pretend like there isn't a romantic element to Dany & Drogo's relationship - the argument here is simply that the destructive element far outweighs the romantic one (and also,,,,, Drogo is simply not a deep character, he doesn't have a character outside of violent warlord but that's a whole other rant). And of course, the Jon-Lysa marriage is just completely destructive to Lysa's sense of self, not to mention the crazy political ramifications of Jon freezing Lysa out.
Now this specific situation....I mean what romanticism is there even to speak about lmao?? first of all, can't point out enough how ddeeply deranged jaehaerys is about this whole thing:
Her sixteenth nameday was fast approaching, and with it her womanhood. Queen Alysanne was at her wit’s end, and the king had lost his patience. On the first day of the 80th year since Aegon’s Conquest, he told the queen he wanted Daella wed before the year’s end. “If she wants I can find a hundred men and line them up before her naked, and she can pick the one she likes,” he said. “I would sooner she wed a lord, but if she prefers a hedge knight or a merchant or Pate the Pig Boy, I am past the point of caring, so long as she picks someone.” “A hundred naked men would frighten her,” Alysanne said, unamused. “A hundred naked ducks would frighten her,” the king replied. “And if she will not wed?” the queen asked. “Maegelle says the Faith will not want a girl who cannot read her prayers.” “There are still the silent sisters,” said Jaehaerys. “Must it come to that? Find her someone. Someone gentle, as she is. A kind man, who will never raise his voice or his hand to her, who will speak to her sweetly and tell her she is precious and protect her…against dragons and horses and bees and kittens and boys with boils and whatever else she fears.”
She's not even 16!!!! Hardly an old maid even by their standards - remember that Catelyn and Brandon's betrothal was made when she was 12 but they didn't set a date until 282, when she was 17 going on 18!!! And there's just no reason why Daella should be rushed into marriage given how many older siblings she has; I mean it's not like they were rushing Lollys Stokeworth into marriage until after her rape during the riot and she was 33, and a lot of that is because she is "simple" and Tanda Stokeworth clearly wants to wait for a husband who is willing to care for her properly. Both Jaehaerys and Gyldayn try to absolve Jaehaerys of responsibility here but there's just no good reason to be threatening to send Daella to the freaking SILENT SISTERS just because she's 15 and doesn't seem interested in marriage. Goofy, silly, noxious behavior here. But moving on to Rodrik.
Queen Alysanne admitted, “but he is the sort you asked for, a kind and gentle man, and he says that he has loved our little girl for years. I know he will protect her.” To the astonishment of every woman at the court, save mayhaps the queen, Princess Daella chose Lord Rodrik to be her husband. “He seems good and wise, like Father,” she told Queen Alysanne, “and he has four children! I’m to be their new mother!” What Her Grace thought of that outburst is not recorded. Grand Maester Elysar’s account of the day says only, “Gods be good.” ...Nor was there a bedding. “Oh, I could not bear that, I should die of shame,” the princess had told her husband to be, and Lord Rodrik had acceded to her wishes. Afterward, Lord Arryn took his princess back to the Eyrie. “My children need to meet their new mother, and I want to show the Vale to Daella. Life is slower there, and quieter. She will like that. I swear to you, Your Grace, she will be safe and happy.”
There's a few red flags here and a few okay things here. I think it's very odd that Daella's excitement at being a stepmother is considered an outburst that Alysanne mislikes and that Grand Maester Elysar says "gods be good." Weird to me idk!! Also, sorry, don't care about the time period, it's weird that he says he's loved her for years (and Corlys is weird for the Rhaenys/Marilda stuff, make no mistake!!!) BUT he doesn't force a bedding on her and he mentions taking her to the Vale because it's quieter, which is honestly a nice thing for Daella, who hates large crowds and court in general. This feels, initially, not dissimilar to like, the Sansa-Willas thing; is it shady? Yes, objectively. But that doesn't mean it has to be an unpleasant marriage, and something strong can grow there. However...
And so she was, for a time. The eldest of Lord Rodrik’s four children from his first wife was a daughter, Elys, three years older than her new stepmother. The two of them clashed from the first. Daella doted on the three younger children, however, and they seemed to adore her in turn. Lord Rodrik, true to his word, was a kind and caring husband who never failed to pamper and protect the bride he called “my precious princess.” Such letters as Daella sent her mother (letters largely written for her by Lord Rodrik’s younger daughter, Amanda) spoke glowingly of how happy she was, how beautiful the Vale, how much she loved her lord’s sweet sons, how everyone in the Eyrie was so kind to her... In the Vale, however, her sister Daella was not doing near as well. After a year and a half of marriage, a different sort of message arrived at the Red Keep by raven. It was very short, and written in Daella’s own uncertain hand. “I am with child,” it said. “Mother, please come. I am frightened.”
Though the princess professed delight that her mother had come, and apologized for sending her such a “silly” letter, her fear was palpable. She burst into tears for the slightest reason, and sometimes for no reason at all, Lord Rodrik said. His daughter Elys was dismissive, telling Her Grace, “You would think she was the first woman ever to have a baby,” but Alysanne was concerned... She was half right. Aemma Arryn, the daughter of Lord Rodrik and Princess Daella, came into the world a fortnight early, after a long and troubled labor. “It hurts,” the princess screamed through half the night. “It hurts so much.” But it is said she smiled when her daughter was laid against her breast. Everything was far from fine, however. Childbed fever set in soon after birth. Though Princess Daella desperately wished to nurse her child, she had no milk, and a wet nurse was sent for. As her fever rose, the maester decreed that she might not even hold her babe, which set the princess to weeping. She wept until she fell asleep, but in her sleep she kicked wildly and tossed and turned, her fever rising ever higher. By morning she was gone. She was eighteen years of age. Lord Rodrik wept as well, and begged the queen’s permission to bury his precious princess in the Vale, but Alysanne refused. “She was the blood of the dragon. She will be burned, and her ashes interred on Dragonstone beside her sister Daenerys.”
So to break this down Daella
Clashes with Rodrik's oldest immensely with Elys being quite cruel and in my opinion incredibly out of pocket when Alysanne gets there for what seems to be no real reason
Her letters are all written by Rodrik or Amanda and they are all glowing
FInally sends her own letter in her own hand and all it says is "i'm scared"
Immediately backtracks and says the letter was "silly"
Has started crying at odd times, something she didn't do before
This feels bad. This feels suspicious. This feels like Daella is regressing mentally and her correspondence is being controlled by her husband. Like Elys and likely Amanda are not very understanding of her needs, or her fears. She doesn't profess any sort of love for Rodrik to her mother's face, and Amanda despite being "close" to her isn't here to comfort Daella as she's having a troubled pregnancy. Then she dies.
The marriage barely lasts long enough to establish any sort of romanticism and what's there is bleak and confusing. It doesn't even feel like a Stockholm-y Dany/Drogo situation, where Daella simply forces herself to love a husband that is cruel to her; Daella does not seem particularly close to anyone in the Vale and Alysanne seems so suspicious of the whole thing that she not only inters Daella on Dragonstone, she also seems to have raised Aemma herself. She doesn't seem to give a single shit about Rodrik's grief here. Maybe that's just Alysanne being Alysanne but the fact that Gyldayn straight up says she's blaming Jaehaerys and Rodrik due to "pride" and Gyldayn is a nasty odious misogynist, I think it's very likely that Alysanne picked up on some really bad vibes from the Arryn family and the situation Daella was in.
To me, this is a Jon/Lysa redux. This is "what happens if Lysa was sickly and Jon married her." There doesn't seem to be any real care put into taking care of her, there seems to have been an active conspiracy to isolate her from her mother, and Elys is cruel to her for no reason. There's no romantic elements here for me, not even of the "toxic twin flame" or grooming variety; Daella is forced to marry, Daella is isolated from her family and impregnated, and Daella dies. I think at best Rodrik was hoping to get his blood on the throne in a generation or two and what he wept for was not the loss of a wife he loved but the loss of station when he saw just how pissed off Alysanne was about the whole ordeal. There's just nothing in the text to convince me that Rodrik was genuine or that Daella had fallen in love with him.
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Do you think Drogo has more impact (negative and positive) on Dany than Ygritte on Jon?
Oh, absolutely.
Remove Ygritte, and Jon is a brother of the Night's Watch who either died in the line of duty in the Frost Fangs or managed to worm his way into the wildling group under Qorin Halfhand's instructions. He'd still learn about wildling culture from people like Tormund, he'd still understand their humanity through observation, he'd still remain loyal to the Watch, he'd escape if possible, fight them, make pacts with them... he'd simply lack the experience of being sexually coerced and feeling a great deal of shame about it.
Remove Drogo, and Dany is Viserys's little sister, his pawn and punching bag, no dragon egg in sight, and her path to agency might have looked very very very different, if it happened at all. Her misery and internal transformation, not to mention the acquisition of political power and the dragon eggs both, are integral to her character development and her plot.
Dany's plot begins with the connection to Drogo for a reason, while Ygritte is an episode in Jon's plot, which kicks off with leaving his home as they all part ways in the wake of Robert's visit.
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It'a also why s8 was so stupid and didn't even work on selling dark!dany. Dany antis state that Dany is power hungry, yet she herself says she wanted to break the wheel together with Jon.
Arya says Jon will "always be a threat" to her. Yet, the same script states Dany felt relaxed and secure with him.
Make it make sense!
why do you think most of the ASOIAF fandom and ASOIAF meta blogs dislike Daenerys and have a very thinly veiled distaste for her. many of them also seem to forget how young she is and her earlier life circumstances. i just wish they’d come out and openly express their hatred rather than pretending to tolerate her.
I honestly don’t understand it either. And many of those people will defend other characters because they are young, but at the same time will ignore the fact that Dany is also young, and unlike the other characters, she didn’t have a formal education, didn’t have a home and a family to take care of her or teach her, and is also in probably the most difficult political situation in ASOIAF. They will ignore all of this while also defending their faves because they are “young” and people shouldn’t be so hard on them, but Dany has to be perfect, and if she’s not, then she’s evil and stupid blah blah…
Really, I don’t think any of Dany’s few “questionable actions” warrants the hate that she gets. Which is what makes me think that the reason for the fandom’s dislike of Dany has nothing to do with Dany’s actions. It has to do with other things: she’s a threat to their faves getting power; she’s a threat to their ships; her story is separated from the main story, so people don’t care about her and think her story is boring; she is a girl that threatens to have more narrative importance and steal the spotlight of their male faves; she’s a girl that could end up being more important, the main hero, and the one that gets it all in the end, when people wanted their male faves to do it; she’s a girl and people are sexist, so they use double standards, prejudices and stereotypes while analysing her character; and finally, her political beliefs are very leftist and many consider them to be “radical” and “extremist”, and many people believe this to be a bad thing, so they expect the classic narrative that says that revolutionaries are actually bad and self serving.
With all of these factors for hate combined into the same character, I kind of understand why she gets so much hate. But not really. I don’t understand the Dany hate at all. She doesn’t deserve it.
#dark!dany in any capacity is dumb af#but if dany were to be the ultimate villain then yeah#have her burn down all of westeros and kill the majority of the “heroes” pfffft#dany antis are just dumb and really want her out of the way with no consequences lol#game of thrones#got s8#house stark#jon snow#house lannister#jamie lannister#tywin lannister#cersei lannister#tyrion lannister#dothraki#house targaryen#viserys targaryen#khal drogo
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Jon’s heart has been described as his sister Arya. He literally broke his vows for her and died for her. What’s left for Daenerys ??
The text explicitly parallels Ygritte and Val with Arya, as Jon is the one thinking of his sister with them. Daenerys is also incredibly different from Ygritte and Val. Yet fans will use “lonely and lovely and lethal” or “a warrior princess” quotes to make it about Daenerys when Daenerys is not at all a warrior princess — she is a feminine princess.
She’s a conqueror, a queen regnant, and a dragon rider, yes, but not a warrior like Ygritte and not cold and introverted like Val. Yet on the other hand, no one says that Jon is just like Drogo and Daario.
I believe the Jon-Arya bond is a leftover from GRRM's orig plans to have them be endgame romantically. They now just have a very close sis-bro bond, but I don't think GRRM erased the chemistry & emotions so much as shifted the attraction and kept all those parallels that clue us in on that past relationships as you note. You're right, those lines/persona do not refer to Dany nor are very good descriptions that can be used for Daenerys.
You're also right about the discrepancy how no one tries to really liken Jon to Daario (I exclude Drogo bc Drogo can't be really considered a love interest....but I suppose that no one even tried IF they did consider him so). Daario, like Val/Ygritte for jon, are people Dany freely chooses so we can discern a sort of "taste" she has from him. But Daario can not be more different from Jon and it's acknowledged by fandom...but Dany being very different from Val and Ygritte is not? Instead, the emphasis is a lot on how Dany can fit Jon's taste...strange. Added to the note about Daario being very different from Jon and that difference going to be very stark (pardon the pun) once she sees his post-ressurected state that is likely to be very scary and a bit more rageful than his past self.
I swear, the past few anti-snowstorm/jonerys asks have brought me in a strange place.
#asoiaf asks to me#jon snow#arya stark#jonerys#snowstorm#shipping#asoiaf shipping#asoiaf#agot#daenerys stormborn#daenerys targaryen
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Hi again =), In the show, dany's anti-slavery campaign ended in a very lame and disappointing way, she went to vaes dothrak, and took the dothraki and went to meereene and fought the enemies there and then just left to Westeros, and left darrio as basically king of meereene after her lmao, in the books i have hope that it's gonna be handled better, I think for Dany's anti-slavery campaign to end in a satisfying way, she needs to end slavery in all of essos, not just meereene or slaver's bay (maybe i am exaggerating idk). but I'm a little bit confused about it, how many cities in essos practice slavery?, how is dany can successfully end slavery in all of them and leave them in a better way than she did with astapor?, because of the quote "to go forward I must go back" I believe dany will not go straight to meereene after vaes dothrak, I think she will go from vaes dothrak to Qarth them astapor then Yunkai and then to meereene and end slavery for good in all of them, just like what the quote says, but what about the other cities that practice slavery?, ending slavery is one of the BIGGEST arks in Daenerys's story and the story in general, so I think ending that ark (Dany's anti-slavery campaign) with her abolishing slavery in just one city or three and leaving the other cities to practice slavery like it's nothing is just gonna be a very disappointing conclusion and is gonna leave a bitter taste in my mouth.
Sorry that this ask is long, but I would love to hear your thoughts and theories about this.
So sorry for the delayed reply! I have been so busy as of late and inactive from Tumblr for a long while, and for some reason my inbox appeared as empty, apologies.
To answer your first question, many cities in Essos practice the slave practice. We all know about Slaver's Bay with Astapor, Yunkai, and Meereen; these three cities are the main 'meat' of the slave trade- the cities most rooted with the practice and making their merit from it, with the most focus based upon them. But the Free Cities do practice slavery as well. Of the nine Free Cities in total, only Braavos is against the act. Pentos is listed as anti-slavery, but only on paper, as there was still acts of slavery occurring within the city, provided by these quotes here:
"Dany said nothing. Magister Illyrio was a dealer in spices, gemstones, dragonbone, and other, less savory things. He had friends in all of the Nine Free Cities, it was said, and even beyond, in Vaes Dothrak and the fabled lands beside the Jade Sea. It was also said that he'd never had a friend he wouldn't cheerfully sell for the right price. [...] "Illyrio will send the slaves to bathe you. Be sure you wash off the stink of the stables. Khal Drogo has a thousand horses, tonight he looks for a different sort of mount." -A Game of Thrones - Daenerys I
"There came a soft knock on her door. "Come," Dany said, turning away from the window. Illyrio's servants entered, bowed, and set about their business. They were slaves, a gift from one of the magister's many Dothraki friends. There was no slavery in the free city of Pentos. Nonetheless, they were slaves." -A Game of Thrones - Daenerys I
I do not know exactly how Daenerys could end slavery for each and every one of these cities, to be honest here. I do believe G.R.R.M likely oversighted just how big and long Daenerys' anti-slavery arc would take before she can reach Westeros. I believe he did plan to do a five year time skip originally, which would likely gloss over Daenerys working her way through Essos to conquer the cities and free the slaves from their chains, yet he discarded the idea and did not implement it into his plot (however, he might do the five year time skip in his future works such as TWOW; as it would give him a better leeway to continue the bulk of the story -Daenerys and her dragons arriving to Westeros, making allies, going to war, etc.- while also giving him the ability to gloss/lightly give some detail into her Essos campaign across the cities to free the slaves and rid of slavery for good). Still, as of now, his works thus far seem too short for his vision for Daenerys' arc in Essos. Her plotline, campaign, the meat of the slave cities and their extent are just too large to fill for only two books yet to be released of the series (if they ever get released/finished at all).
I also do believe in the theory that Daenerys will trail from Vaes Dothrak with more men to add to her armies and Drogon through Qarth and forward to finish her goal and rid the cities of slavery for good. As for the other cities- that is a hard contemplative matter. I believe if G.R.R.M wanted to write out her full arc and plot for Essos and ridding of slavery entirely, he would have her trail from Meereen to the other Free Cities in a march and go on from there, slowly rooting out slavery from them and overturning the cities and fixing them for the better. However, as my previous point states, this is too bulky of an arc/plotline to finish in just two books, unless those books are going to be massive- or he does the five year time skip he had originally intended since with it he doesn't technically need to expand into how exactly she ended the practice for good; he could just gloss over those details and write that she was successful in her goal yet not omit as to how she completed them exactly.
I also agree that the anti-slavery campaign is one of her biggest and most important plots, the most detailed as well, and it would leave confusion/bitterness in others if she just ended slavery in Slaver's Bay yet left the other Free Cities unattended. Considering we know Daenerys' character, who she is, what she has done to accomplish her goals of ending slavery, etc. is what leaves a bad taste- because it would be a VERY ooc action for her to just ignore the slavery going on in the other Free Cities of Essos and leave them as is just to sail to Westeros... considering she herself said this:
"But how can I rule seven kingdoms if I cannot rule a single city?" He had no answer to that. Dany turned away from them, to gaze out over the city once again. "My children need time to heal and learn. My dragons need time to grow and test their wings. And I need the same. I will not let this city go the way of Astapor. I will not let the harpy of Yunkai chain up those I've freed all over again." She turned back to look at their faces. "I will not march." -A Storm of Swords - Daenerys VI
But I do believe G.R.R.M may have written himself into a rut with how expansive he made her arc and how important/detailed it became; how it is so integral on its own it could make its own book in my opinion. That or he does plan on making the last two books somehow end her arc in a cohesive manner... maybe he does plan on fleshing it out and making the books massive in pages/writing, or maybe he plans on doing a time skip of some sort. If he even manages to finish and release his works, that is. It is hard to speculate on and think over how he would manage to finish her slavery arc considering how large and complicated he made it in terms of the books. It has become such a massive and important plot but it also would take up a good chunk of the books if he does expand on it and finish it properly, not to mention his other plans for other characters and their arcs/plotlines, Daenerys arriving to Westeros, the Others, etc.
G.R.R.M basically wrote himself into a corner on this one, and as for now all we can do is speculate upon the matter, but it is intriguing to think about how exactly he can write himself back out of it and possibly finish the arc/plotline if he does wind up finishing and releasing his books.
Thanks for the ask! :)
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