#psychicpiratementality

[atopvisenyashill]

what role do you think shiera seastar played in daeron ii's governance of westeros?

okay so first of all. shiera is roughly the same age/generation as all of daeron’s kids - the timeline is vague but the gap of years she could have been born in is like right at the tail end of rhaegal and maekar’s births to several years after. so i imagine that not dissimilar to daenerys, daeron takes more of a very distant brother/paternal role with her. a girl is not a threat the way a boy is, she’s young enough to be his own kid, and she's a motherless child, so it’s fine, she’s raised at court with his kids and he doesn't complain too much about it. i do wonder if part of shiera being raised at court is instigated by myriah and also what "raised at court" could even mean - Maekar is anywhere from like 4 to 10 when daeron becomes king (bloodraven is roughly around the same age as Maekar, maybe a year to four years older) which means Shiera is under 10 as well, as young as a toddler (i mean hell, if she's born at the tail end of Aegon's reign, she could be the same age as Valarr who is Daeron's grandson). So depending on when it is she's born, is she at KL or does Daeron ask for her to be brought to Dragonstone? I mean, how set up was Daeron's court at Dragonstone? It had to have existed at least on a small scale because Daeron takes the capital bloodlessly after Aegon IV dies.

SO. Anyways I think it's not likely she does very much at the beginning of his reign due to being around the same age as, at the oldest his second youngest son and at the youngest the same age as his first grandchild. Coupled with the fact that her mother is dead and foreign born, being from Lys, she likely lives the life of a typical lady at court but potentially without the pressure to marry. Yes, she's a bastard, but she's a legitimized one, beloved by the royal family, with a sister-by-law who comes from a culture that seems to believe if you have a bastard, you best act like a responsible parent for that child (not to say Dorne doesn't have it's own bastard based issues, see: Obara BUT I do think someone like Robert would not be allowed to just leave all his bastards all scattered about willy nilly. I think it's likely those children and their mothers have the ability to push for acknowledgement in a way a lot of bastards north of the marches don't). I also think the fact that Shiera's mother is foreign born would help ingratiate her with Myriah and Daeron's kids - we know Larra felt like an outcast, I think it's likely Shiera bonds with the royal family over feeling like she's culturally on the outs.

By the time she's an adult, the Blackfyre Rebellion is in full swing. So - does she take on a more advisory role when she gets older? I think it's possible. Here are some choice quotes:

"You've known queens and princesses. Did they dance with demons and practice the black arts?" "Lady Shiera does. Lord Bloodraven's paramour. She bathes in blood to keep her beauty. And once my sister Rhae put a love potion in my drink, so I'd marry her instead of my sister Daella."

-the Sworn Sword

Bloodraven proved to be a capable Hand, but also a master of whisperers who rivaled Lady Misery, and there were those who thought he and his half sister and paramour, Shiera Seastar, used sorcery to ferret out secrets. It became common to refer to his "thousand eyes and one," and men both high and low began to distrust their neighbor for fear of their being a spy in Bloodraven's employ. 

-The World of Ice and Fire

"You can know a man by his friends, Egg. Daeron surrounded himself with maesters, septons, and singers. Always there were women whispering in his ear, and his court was full of Dornishmen. How not, when he had taken a Dornishwoman into his bed, and sold his own sweet sister to the prince of Dorne, though it was Daemon that she loved? Daeron bore the same name as the Young Dragon, but when his Dornish wife gave him a son he named the child Baelor, after the feeblest king who ever sat the Iron Throne.

-the Sword Sword

We know very little about Shiera at this moment in time but I think it's not unlikely that for the middle part of Daeron's reign, when it seems Baelor & Valarr have taken the lead on going out and about in the kingdom, that Shiera was acting in some sort of advisory capacity (nothing official, similar to Elaena in that she's working behind the scenes rather than sitting on the council) and some people had a bit of an issue with it. I think it's not unlikely that as Daeron got older, he might have distanced himself from her but by that point she had an in: no i'm not talking about bloodraven i'm talking about Aerys. Aerys immediately made Bloodraven hand and while I give Daeron some shit for not getting Bloodraven under control, it's ultimately Aerys that really lets Bloodraven go crazy with his police state and I think Shiera has big hand in that, perhaps on par with Lady Mysaria. Or at least, I hope she does lmao, and I think it's interesting that both Mysaria and Serenei, Shiera's mom, are from Lys. Maybe Shiera being mentioned in conjunction with Mysaria and Bloodraven is nothing, but I think what's most likely is that as Shiera got older and started dabbling with more magic, she took up a sort of Court Sorceress role a la Melisandre, at the behest of King Aerys I himself - and why wouldn't he turn to her? It's likely they were raised together!

[kingcunny]

how do you think viserys's reign would change if alyssa didn't die from childbirth and survived to see her son get crowned and become queen mother? would she have terrorized him into making decisions that appealed to her, up to including the succession issue and his choice of second marriage?

i think alyssa wouldve *tried* to keep control over viserys, and for the most part, day to day has him pretty wrapped around her finger. but as for the Big decisions, he is *king* now, and outranks her.

regarding viserys marriages, i think alyssa wouldve pushed for him being married to rhaenys. the throne was supposed to go to her, it keeps everything in the family. wraps it up in a neat bow. but after getting shot down for that, i think she would accept aemma as a counter offer. alyssa likes the idea of having her sisters daughter close, and ‘safe’ and at ‘home’… so obviously her death, in the exact same way her mother, alyssas sister, died… is very hard for her. she lashes out at viserys, blames him for what happened. even though alyssa was Also consistently putting pressure on the Both of them to have a male heir,…

viserys naming rhaenyra his heir would ‘fix’ things between him and his mother i think. alyssas whole problem with viserys was an he was an *embarassment* he wasnt *worthy* of carrying on his fathers name, thats why alyssa was pushing so hard for an heir that Would be worthy of her *sweet, brave, dead* brother. viserys might not have gone about it in the most traditional way, but he *did* in the end, give her a heir.

alyssa wouldve swept rhaenyra up to raise as her own. completely disregarding both viserys and daemon. and while i think viserys marriage to alicent *would* spark another fight between them, (alyssa wouldve wanted him to marry laena, for the same reasons as rhaenys) as long as viserys continues to support rhaenyra as his heir *hard look at her son* hes the king, he can make whatever dumb decisions he likes.

i dont think, in the end, things would change all that much. im of the opinion the ‘seeds of the dance’ were sown long before viserys. alyssa being alive during her sons reign just changes characterization and *how* things happen. but not *what* happens.

[atopvisenyashill]

if you could erase one popular fanon interpretation from the asoiaf fandom forever, what would it be?

just one 😭😭😭😭

i would love to erase the entire concept of the key five. it’s so dismissive of literally every character outside of those five, but also of bran bc ya kno, no one ever focuses in on him bc they always bitch that he’s king, it’s just about a made up version of arya dany tyrion and jon they have in their minds with bran stuck behind the wall forever and ever so as not to challenge the special magical ness of arya jon or dany. it’s really poisoned the discourse imo which poisons the theorizing. it’s also just a stupid way of engaging with the series - part of the fun of all the au scenarios is like, you take one character out and the whole plot collapses. which feels like one of the points of the series - what is one boy’s to a kingdom? everything!! yeah OBVIOUSLY some characters get more focus than others but when the thesis statement of the series is that every life is important and worth saving, it’s so goofy to be like “anyways these five dudes are the only characters that are relevant.” do we remember what jaime was like in the draft 😭😭 there’s been some changes!!

[atopvisenyashill]

how do you think viserys and daemon would be affected if alysanne allowed viserra and baelon to marry, even if it's just to give baelon's sons a mother figure? do you think she'd be a good stepmother to them and how would she react to the weird codependent vibes between the brothers?

(also, thanks for what you said about my url, it was magically randomized, lol)

I do think there are some issues here if Viserra gets pregnant, especially if it's a boy. If it's a girl, well, I'm sure she's going to push for Viserys (maybe Daemon) to marry her daughter over Daella's, which isn't a problem dynastically although it's sure to be suitably traumatizing for her daughter (given the age gap). If it's a boy, well, she's going to want her boy on the throne. This might not be a problem if she can ingratiate herself and her son with Viserys, especially if Viserys sees this brother as a more calm and suitable heir over Daemon - depending on when this brother is born, it's even possible he makes a play for Rhaenyra's hand too. I think it's not unlikely Viserra would push for a Rhaenyra-Her Son match in this scenario - she married Baelon despite "wanting to be queen" which makes me think Viserra more just wanted to have some sort of control over her life and felt Baelon could offer her that and being queen might offer her that as well. It tells me she's not unwilling to play the long game or else why would she marry a second son? It tells me she trusts the men in her family to keep her safe and give her agency more than random guys. I think it speaks to someone who is more than willing to accept an imperfect situation as a win. I almost wonder if she'd wind up teaming up with Corlys in some way here, because he's also someone who is willing to play the long game.

If she winds up never having any children and acts only as a stepmother...I don't think she'd have a problem with co-dependency. I think she could even encourage it, in a sort of imperfect imitation of what Jaehaerys did with Aemon and Baelon. After Baelon dies, I think there's a chance she gets a bit weird with Aemma because Aemma will one day be Queen while Viserra will never be anything at all. I almost wonder if this lends itself to a sort of Lady Sam situation, where Viserra attempts to seduce Viserys after Aemma dies (or even while she still lives) to avoid a loss in status and also because...he's closer to her age, lol, and he's not bad to look at. Of course THAT could go either colossally sideways if she has a kid with Viserys but if she never has kids again? Well well well, Rhaenyra is looking a lot better in this situation because the family tree is whittled down to just Rhaenyra and her descendants.

[atopvisenyashill]

rhaenyra playlist?

I actually already have a lil graphic for this one because last year I went "Rhaewin is the most interesting couple in this show and they got two scenes what in the goddamn hell" and essentially made my own version of "Evil Nonbinary Queen Wins The War But It's Fine Because They're Sexy As Hell" story and I made a long ass playlist while I was writing/plotting. I'll bold the ones that are more Rhaenyra-esque than My Oc-esque

Playlist-

King - Florence & the Machine

Play with Fire - Sam Tinnesz feat Yacht Money

Who Are You, Really? - Mikky Ekko

Paint the Town Red - Doja Cat

Crystalized - The xx

Get Some- Lykke Li

Glory and Gore - Lorde

Blood // Water - grandson

Control - Halsey

Everybody Wants To Rule the World - Lorde

Cosmic Love - Florence and the Machine

Achilles Come Down - Gang of Youths

Wytches Chant 98 - Inkubus Sukkubus

Teeth - Lady Gaga

No Life, No Light - Florence + the Machine

Bad Moon Rising - Palestra and Candace Devine

Ghosting - Mother Mother

Paint it Black - Ciara

Savage Daughter - Sarah Hester Ross

Pomegranate Seeds - Julian Moon

The Dismemberment Song - Blue Kid

The Hills - The Weeknd

Emperor's New Clothes - Panic at the Disco

How Far We've Come - Matchbox Twenty

[atopvisenyashill]

if condal and hess wrote the aegon the conqueror show, what would be the rhaenicent-coded ship there? aegon/orys? aegon/torrhen?

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh now THIS is the question.

see for ME personally, I want desperately for Visenya to have been in love with Rhaenys who is either oblivious/repressing hard like Viserys is re: Daemon or just straight up doesn't return the feelings at all. And we know hess LOVES her girlie pops. BUT I do think there's a lot there for Aegon and Orys - the dragonseed thing, giving Orys an entire region of Westeros to rule over, Orys getting increasingly more violent as Aegon starts mellowing out, I think there's a lot there thematically that Condal really loves when it comes to like, cyclical rot and monarchies I think he would make that one gay as hell. We're never getting a gay Stark imo bc HBO is too far up the ass of the targnation fans even tho that's what we deserve!!

[atopvisenyashill]

do you think baelor the blessed would've done something to aegon iv if daena had told everyone it was aegon who knocked her up? like, there should probably be a severe punishment against a man who knocked up a royal princess, especially one in the maidenvault, but the man in question is also a prince and baelor's own cousin. but then again, baelor is a misogynist so maybe he would've pinned all the blame on daena for being a seductress and events would've played out the same?

i think part of why daena refuses to name anyone at all is because she knows there's going to be extreme consequences for the father, herself, and daemon if she does say who it is or even lies about it to protect the father. taking a a noble born maiden's virginity is no small thing and taking a princess's virginity is even more so a problem, regardless of who is doing it. look at the saera problem - jaehaerys has her ladies marry the men they had sex with, has connington tortured and executed. the man who knocked up coryanne wylde is sent to the wall. the boy who consensually felt up baela would have gotten his hand cut off if she hadn't begged for them to spare the boy. robert deflowering delena florent may not have had technical consequences for robert himself because he's the king, but robert has to claim edric as his specifically because of delena's high birth, and tywin offers tyrion as a husband for delena specifically because delena is seen as ~lesser~ now, on par with a disabled son.

so i think it's very likely that baelor would have been aghast at this whole thing if daena were to name aegon or aegon were to say he was the father. baelor phrases locking his sisters up as "protecting them" as well as protecting the men of the court from "carnal thoughts" so i do think it's likely he would see this as aegon being overcome by daena's beauty - not quite her fault, not even quite aegon's fault, more so giving "lust" personhood as a corrupting force that made them fuck. i think it's likely the maidenvault gets more restrictive. i think it's likely the girls are forced to go through religious torture to cleanse them of sin. i think it's likely he starts segregating the court by gender to ensure there's no sin. probably he forces all three of them to wear chastity belts 24/7 with scheduled times to relieve themselves, and locks them away with no contact but a septa when they get their periods. as for aegon's consequences - can i choose a cop out answer and say i'm kind of unsure but it's probably not pleasant lol. part of that is we don't know how aware baelor is of the line of succession - it's possible he was treating viserys as his heir, and aegon as viserys' heir, and that might give him some pause. however, i'm also not sure he would be able to settle for just exiling aegon to essos for a bit, like they do to deal with naerys' health. i think aegon would be made to live as a peasant the way baelor does, made to pray, made to eat simply, made to fast, etc. but i do wonder if he would go for something more severe, especially since daeron has already been born and seems healthy? as in, forces him into the faith somehow, sends him to the wall, permanently exiles and cuts him out of the line of succession, etc.

anyways, while i do agree it's probably likely daena gets the worst of it, aegon probably wouldn't escape - but that's assuming baelor just doesn't freak out and shut himself up to fast, then dies, which is what happens in canon. if baelor doesn't manage to decree anything, i do imagine there's a bit of a controversy over this, but it blows over. but if baelor sends out decrees while fasting himself to death over it, aegon is getting some sort of punishment to ~wash his carnal thoughts away~ and it's not gonna be pleasant. at this point, baelor is taking advice from random street urchins, ya know. who knows what he would have done. maybe he just straight has a heart attack lol.

[atopvisenyashill]

what are your thoughts on alyssa targaryen (daughter of jaehaerys and alysanne)? do you think if she never died, she would've advocated for baelon's usurpation of rhaenys and then viserys's usurpation? I've seen a lot of AU fics where she actually does aspire to be queen consort and/or queen mother and thus is willing to step over any woman to put her husband or son on the throne, which I think is an interesting interpretation.

hell, maybe viserys's reign would've been less of a disaster if his terrifying mom was urging him to be a man like his dad and what could viserys do to kick his mom out besides like, sending her to the motherhouse or pulling a nero?

i think if alyssa had lived, she would have pushed hardcore for viserys to marry rhaenys and would have thrown an absolute fit until she got her way. i think in general what i get from the relationships between jaehaerys' children is that he wanted them to be close, to foster love between them in a way that did not exist between maegor and aenys - if rhaena had not loved jaehaerys and alysanne so much, jaehaerys' reign would have looked much different, and i think he's very aware of that fact. so i think just like baelon seems really fucked up over aemon's death, alyssa would be as well. and just like alyssa was following after baelon as a girl and that absolutely normal childish impulse to bug your brother got twisted into sexual and romantic interest, alyssa would take any sign at all of fondness between rhaenys and viserys as proof that they're meant to be and push for them to get engaged. now do i think her motives are completely free from self interest? no, absolutely not, no one's are. and do i think she would fight her father in having viserys named king and rhaenys named queen-consort? again, no i do not. but i do think that if alyssa had lived, those two are getting hitched, and imo this would force the question of who gets what title a little quicker. that doesn't fix or even lighten the dance at all, probably just kicks it down the road, but when you look at alyssa's life and family tree, it is just one "loving" (GROOMING) brother-sister incest marriage after another - aegon and rhaenys, jaehaerys and alysanne, herself and baelon. i imagine she would take rhaenys under her wing, convince her in the way that alyssa herself was suspiciously convinced that she's meant for viserys, that their marriage can be full of love, that she can have access to power and have freedom if only she submit to being her shitty little cousin's brood mare.

as for "what can viserys do" well....he can do exactly what jaehaerys did, which is trap his mother in a marriage he knows is abusive until it kills her at a young age, and forgive the husband who ultimately did exactly as he wanted to do, which is get rid of his overbearing mother. it's not like viserys is above this sort of behavior - he traps daemon with rhea, traps rhaenyra with laenor, puts mysaria on a boat while she's pregnant, on and on. i don't think he would force alyssa to remarry but i imagine they'd have....maybe some sort of cross between rhaenys & otto as a relationship, where he loves her, he leans on her, but there is a distance there that is insurmountable, and it eats away at their relationship over the years.