#and have a valid conversation

[queenwille]

me, usually: let’s engage in a respectful conversation.

me, this week: let’s engage in you going to mind your own fucking business, as you won’t do enough research. i’m tired of the cult vibes of hearing the same baseless dumb shit from all of you.

[lesbianfakir]

You’re placed in a room with an animal. The door is closed and you cannot leave. The animal is completely calm and has no intent of harming you. You are in no danger unless you provoke the animal in some way.

[hailsatanacab]

"Well, this is a bad idea," Tim says, hands on his hips as he surveys the mess they’ve made in the cave.

"Nah," Danny replies, twirling his screwdriver in the air in what is probably meant to be an impressive trick to inspire confidence, except he fumbles it and it clangs to the floor loudly, "we good. If a younger version of myself hasn't come forward in time to stop me, how bad can it be?"

"Shouldn't it be the other way round?"

"What?"

"Normally, it's an older version of yourself going backwards in time to stop you, right?"

"Not in my experience."

Danny's grin is impossibly feral and a shiver runs up Tim's spine.

"This is definitely a bad idea."

[dykedvonte]

You ever just see a Mouthwashing take that makes you want to bang your head into a wall? I literally just saw someone claim Curly couldn't have been emotionally abused by Jimmy before the crash because he was in a higher position of power than Jimmy.

-Shrimp Anon

The mouthwashing fandom has shown me that people genuinely do believe that certain types of abuse are not as detrimental as other types especially when they deem those immune/resistant, ergo, believing one is objectively worse no matter how it affects the person nor the intersections of power, history and dynamics at play.

Get ready cause this is a yap session:

Cause like it's heavily implied that Curly and Jimmy's friendship was toxic and abusive, pointedly in the direction of how Jimmy uses Curly's belief/comfort in him. Curly wasn't forced to enable Jimmy but he was emotional and mentally on edge around him in almost every scene in some way. Mental and emotional abuse are not contingent on what positions you have at work. Yeah, he's Jimmy's boss but he was Jimmy's friend first and it's like getting into Psych discussion to talk about how social power tends to overshadow any perceived organizational power in the human mind. People are concerned about their jobs ofc but they tend to hang onto and put more value/investment into their personal relationships, hence why there tends to be laws and restrictions around mixing the two.

I always see the sentiments that "Curly is a grown ass man", "Curly is bigger than Jimmy", "Curly is Jimmy's boss", "He just needed a backbone" as criticisms of Curly and while I do agree that on the surface level all of these to be true and viable ways Curly could've taken more control of the situation, I often look at the parallels of Anya and Curly as victims of Jimmy pre/post crash.

The way Jimmy talks to Anya post crash is how he talked to Curly in the pre-crash segments. It's hard to pin-point mainly because we know he hates and wants nothing to do with Anya compared to his contrary but similarly handled obsessions with Curly. It's a weird sort of "honey-moon" effect of abuse Jimmy does in terms of emotional and mental victimization. He is always horrid to Anya, always talking down or questioning her abilities and thoughts in a situation, this of course includes the harassment and assault. However, he has a moment of attempted gentleness/conditioning when he question her about the mouthwash when she's contemplating drinking it at the table. The key difference is he has no personal investment in Jimmy outside wanting nothing to do with him, meaning there is no sort of romanticized version of him that he can condition her off of. He knows this, hence, why he always reverts to trying to make her to scared to oppose him.

This sort of give and take of "kindness" doesn't work on her because she knows he is just doing it to take more from her than whatever he could possibly give but it reflects even the "softer" scenes between him and Curly where he always rewords or rephrases Curly's sentiments and concerns to sound more shallow. He is feigning a deeper understanding by reworking Curly's emotions into something bad and needing to be hidden. Everything is laced with envy and resentment, an outburst just around the corner, I mean he even slams the table in the birthday party scene, a tactic in emotional manipulation to set the victim on edge and cloud their ability to respond. Even if Curly knows Jimmy won't get physical in that moment, the physical actions is intended to make him back down in the confrontation in case it does. This is something that is just not person specific. It ingrains itself into how you interact with the world and life and it shows in major and minor ways with Curly.

Post-crash, the abusive nature is more in tandem to the physical victimization Anya went through and the stripping of voice and autonomy we see take place. Like the parasite in HFIM, Jimmy speaks for Curly most of the time and puts words in his mouth, similarly to how he takes Anya's plans as his own. He very commonly, with the both of them mind you, supplements the worst aspects of himself into them; pettiness, selfishness, lack of understanding... And tries to cover himself with their best qualities; kindness, planning, initiative, etc...

These parallel are just to say that positional power has little to do with if a person can be abused and how it can even be flipped to further the abuse. There is no doubt that Curly could've picked up on Jimmy's envy of his position hence another reason he never confronted him as a Captain but as a friend as doing so would immediately put Jimmy in a space to be confrontational/combative.

I think the disdain some people have when they talk about the heavily implied if not implicitly stated emotional/mental abuse Curly experienced being Jimmy's friend is when treating it as an excuse to why he didn't do more. I can understand that completely because it is not an excuse to why he didn't do more but is a very real reason people in his position in these scenarios can experience whether in the context of a work or social environment. However, I also think the way people talk about it really does demonstrate a bigger problem when talking about abuse when somehow who is/was abused is either part of the issue or enabled it.

Harkening back to the sentiments about Curly's inaction regarding Jimmy, I think the exact phrases I used/have seen show how there is an inherent belief that it is easier to overpower the effects of emotional/mental abuse that go in tandem with the perception of Curly as someone who should be able to. There is not an age you suddenly stop being susceptible to abuse nor a set point or low where you realize how it has affected you. You don't suddenly know to stand up or put a face on to face your abuser nor admit that you inadvertently enabled them to subjugate someone else to the same treatment. Maybe it's my psych brain but their is this growing belief that direct action is somehow easy or always the best method with the game shows you instances where it is not always the case. In real life that rings true too. He should have done more, but it's not impossible to see why he struggled to find a way or didn't even if it makes us mad.

It's not easy to suddenly gain a "back-bone". You don't immediately want to resort to aggression, especially if it mirrors the type you were a victim to. You don't want to believe you allowed yourself to be treated this bad, let it get that bad or allowed something bad to happen to someone else. It is easy to be in denial, to retreat to your thoughts or make excuses to avoid the painful truth. It's frustrating but in a way we know is relatable. It why we both hate and love Curly for it. We know we'd be better, we think we'd be better, we like to think we wouldn't falter in the same ways but it's always easier to say that from the outside looking in. It's easy to see what he was doing wrong because we are seeing it, not him, but the game really does make you picture what you would do if this was your raw reality and it's why this debate about Curly seems so never ending/contradictory. We can all say what we'd do but bottom line is that's much different when you're in the moment with all the emotions and human feelings attached.

I personally think Mouthwashing tackles the themes of rape culture, enabling, toxic masculinity, types of abuse and patriarchy in ways that are meant to deconstruct the typical straightforward views we mostly have of these concepts and how little subtilities of them are just as, if not more, detrimental than the overt/obvious parts. The game deals with the idea of little details and bigger picture in a way to show that sometimes the bigger picture is not the issue but the little details that make it up. It's why I have a personal dislike of depictions of Jimmy as the typical horrible person who would of course do something like this because the game is about noticing the little warning signs, the foreshadowing and foresight.

It's why I dislike the typical discussion of "bro code" and "boys will be boys" for the game because the game makes a point to avoid the standard depictions of such. It is about the type of men who still enable despite not condoning, agreeing or even perpetuating harmful beliefs because they can't see the little details or the ways it seeps into their everyday. The severity is not obvious to them as it was not obvious to Curly, Swansea or even Daisuke the way it was to a woman like Anya. There are little details about Jimmy that should ring alarms but if you are too naive like Daisuke, too distant like Swansea or too conditioned like Curly, they are just off markers.

There is 100% more constructive/concise ways to say "Curly was a victim of Jimmy's abuse on an emotional and mental aspect that clouded his judgements and perceptions in the scenario" while also critiquing on the side of "Curly still had a responsibility to protect Anya as a crew mate and Captain that he failed to do due to biases and stigma's he failed to surpass" without the weird condemnation people give him about should've knowing better than to let himself be manipulated by a person he considered a close, if not family/best-friend and had his own reasons to trust initially. Also stop being weird about victims of abuse in general with this fandom, like sorry not everyone has a like social epiphany the moment someone's nasty to them. People are treating it like you immediately know when you are in a toxic relationship immediately or comprehend when a person is actively dangerous and either it's your fault for not knowing how to leave/cut them off or you deserve it. Like the hypocrisy of people believing how certain fans treat the story reflect their irl views but not their own is crazy.

End statement is: I honestly don't even know man, I've been writing this too long and just like no man on that ship was perfect or really helped Anya when it mattered and I feel like pitting them against each other in discussion on who did the least or most or how it was justified sucks cause in the end Anya always did the most and best thing for herself.

[arcticclimes]

[jonsnowunemploymentera]

The way we discuss prophecy in fandom is genuinely fascinating. GRRM spends so much time showing how different characters have different interpretations of the same thing based on their own cultural contexts. He says that prophecy is tricky to navigate through multiple characters, showing that even the most careful practitioner can get almost everything wrong and fall victim to their own fallacies (see Mel). So tell me why the main takeaway for large parts of this fandom is “prophecy stupid, it doesn’t matter”. My brothers and sisters in R’hllor, GRRM didn’t invent multiple characters (three of whom are main POVs!!) who can see the future for this to be the conclusion. This is a FANTASY series. Please I’m begging, let us be serious 🥲

[wizardsix]

local guy claims intellectual superiority by declaring people who criticise veilguard just haven't played long enough and don't really know what bad writing is. it must be very peaceful to have such an empty head.

[wanderingcritter]

proshippers: "anti's are so mean to us, it's causing us to have mental health issues, we're people with feelings too yk :("

damn that's so crazy, it's almost as if the things you say online can and often do have real world impacts and don't just exist in the vacuum of "fiction"

what a truly wild concept

[pyjamapantscat]

I don’t see enough people talk about the actual problems within the httyd franchise. Most people’s problems is with bad writing here and there, which is a valid thing to be upset about don’t get me wrong. However, the topic of racism isn’t talked about enough. Like why are the only few characters of color villains and straight up stereotypes???

[leothil]

Ok I've been thinking this for a while but I guess I'll put it down in writing too: I think the conversation Buck has with Maddie and Josh will be something related to how his bisexuality is valid even if he isn't dating a man. It doesn't even need to connect to relationship issues/a potential breakup (and based on Oliver's interviews I don't think it will), just Buck getting validated as a person.

[messrsrarchives]

i've spent a lot of the past 24 hours talking to various trans people in the fandom that reposted or dmed me about this video and i'm gonna yap here under the cut about it.

(i'm not a spokesperson for trans people obviously, and i don't mean to lead these discussions. i know i've had a lot of them recently but yeah it's been rough, i just thought this was interesting to share and can hopefully share a lil of how people are feeling.)

i've always assumed that the hate that i've received on my account was because of me? i post videos talking about discourses, i'm open about ships i like that are generally hated, etc etc, i've just assumed it was a me thing.

but then when people are mad about those things, it more often than not comes to slurs. it's come to people debating my identity, questioning how much of a man i am when i wear makeup, posting me on reddit pages, throwing the words tranny and "she-man" around farrr too much, and i thought "isn't it heartbreaking that this is their first thought?"

so it gradually became less about me as an individual, and instead my identity. and just that these people are mean.

and i made that video from the perspective of someone who's already upset. who's had a lot of stuff like this happen and is Sad about it.

but i've spoken to 47 trans people that reached out to me themselves about this, and have so many more requests to get through, and not one has said that they feel safe and comfortable in this space. not a single one.

so i thought i'd share some of the things that were said (with permission and anonymously) because i think it's quite interesting to see what the issues are:

the MOST mentions goes toooo: the discourse about male characters - namely sirius - wearing makeup and the way gender norms become the forefront of this - makes them feel as though people dislike "unconventional trans people" as one person put it.

alongside this, the hate for trans characters - namely regulus - and how people get very mad about it "reinforcing heterosexuality" - do not feel recognised as the gender they are, feel as though people are viewing trans people as "fake men or women" - quote.

discourses surrounding height, hair, 'gender presentations' etc - brought up by a lot of people and they recognised that this is coming from a good place (not reinforcing heterosexuality) but feel as though the amount of focus put on it is disproportionate to the presence of it. copy and pasted quote: "I'm a 5 foot 2 trans man and feel like less of a man because of it"

profitting jkr: (obviously, because that's what the video was about) i want to add that nearly everyone said that they understand the desire to, and were receptive of the fact you don't know what goes on behind the scenes re: donating elsewhere etc, but said that they've felt less safe since the surge of posts about the reboot.

guilt. which makes me glad that i posted about that here a few days ago because i felt alone in this. a lot of the people i spoke to feel guilty for being here, and feel as though they can't claim that this fandom is inclusive anymore.

comment sections: brought up by a handful of people who said that not enough people delete horrible comments on posts - one said "even if they argue against them it just feels worse than deleting it", another said "obvs i can't ask people to delete them on their own account but it does suck that they dont think to" - every person that brought up comment sections said that they tend not to look at them now which makes them feel like an outsider in the fandom.

cosplays: brought up by four people and feels relevant to above points about "gender presentation" - said that unless you're cosplaying sirius, they nearly always have to delete comments saying something along the lines of "xyz wouldn't wear makeup". all of them said that they just feel nice in it and never meant it in a bad way.

scared to be loud: scared to post, especially with face. a few acknowledged that they are scared to do so anyway, but worry about it in this space as well. bolded this one because it makes me so sad, but having been put on reddit pages for saying pete was their friend, i get it.

and the final point, a copy and pasted line: "i dont want to be represented when it suits them and i don't want to be a box they tick when adding diversity to a fic and then cry in comments. i dont want performative support"

ALSO ADDING HERE:

nearly everyone (bar 7 people) that reached out to me acknowledged that this is a minority, and not the majority. they were very clear that it isn't their whole experience, but is an issue regardless. a lot of focus was put on curating your own space and finding people who do support you, but algorithms don't always make that possible, and it's difficult seeing it happen even if they don't interact.

which is,,, yeah. that's the crux of it really. most of the time it's fine and it's lovely and things like this don't happen, but they still do, and how do you feel like you can engage when you don't know what side it will get on?

which,,, sucks. because there's not really anything anyone can do then. it's just screaming into a void and hoping that you don't end up on the wrong sides.

but anyway, i thought it was interesting. especially the comment sections and the headcanon discourse - which truly, i see less of on tumblr anyway but for all of the above reasons, don't fancy discussing this on tiktok right now which is the epicentre of it.

but yeah. food for thought perchance, and some very good discussions !! thank you to anyone that messaged me and allowed me to write this, you're not screaming into a void with me 🫶🏻

[anxiously-sidequesting]

how about you shut the fuck up Mr. Irresponsible

[operationslipperypuppet]

the way i was like “fucking finally” when suvi started yelling at ame…

[hanzajesthanza]

i’m sure i said this already but regis swearing when quoting angoulême’s phrases is too dangerous. he could bypass his social etiquette, if only he prefaces it with “as our darling young angoulême says”

[quaranmine]

collapses on the floor and Dies

[lilredghost]

Everything would've been fine if Obi-Wan had just clicker trained Anakin actually