#and even agree about his queer arc

[rocker-by-heart]

.

[wishbonedean]

Thank you, and to add some tinfoil-hat theory, anyone that feels cheated by the ending they got? It's because of the explicit bi erasure. You're mad? This is just another Wednesday for me. This is why i dont hate the ending - they made people *mad* the bi characters died, rather than casually accept that their deaths were inevitable as so many shows, including this one (as a *commentary* - more on that later), have done.

Season 15 (and most seasons, I would argue) is a meta-mirror of the real world, the writers explicitly likened Chuck to a network executive for a reason, and they wrote the Destiel arc to be so central to the plot, that the only way to end it was to fulfill the romantic arc and canonize the bisexual love in the room, or kill them, and the network had to choose - the writers didn't kill Dean and Cas, they gave the network a choice, and based on *market research* (see: the American public), most people would rather see a dead bisexual than a happy one, and that's how the writers attempted to make up for all the queerbaiting and homophobic nonsense we had to endure for 15 seasons - showing everyone their own ass, i mean, isnt this what they asked for?

We can joke about how it's a show that doesn't take itself seriously, but plenty of these writers had been working on this show for years, they loved these characters - if we watch their last season, deadly seriously, they have given us a pretty damning social commentary on the state of corporate/network censorship seizing control of our own narratives from us.

Edit: grammar, punctuation, wording

ok but where are my fellow bisexual castiel truthers huh where are my bi4bi deancas siblings in arms huh where are my cas-is-gay-but-as-in-the-umbrella-term people HUH WHERE ARE Y'ALL WHERE

[blazinghotfoggynights]

Can Team Tuck and Team Buddie please agree that both can exist and serve as positive spaces for queer male representation?

I've been thinking. Let me run something by you.

Oliver says he has always felt Buck was a bi-coded character? Right?

Does that mean when TK thought Buck was hitting on him, he was?

If Buck was always bi, but just didn't know it, are we supposed to believe he never flirted with Eddie just because his first kiss was with Tommy?

Was Tommy his bi awakening or was Tommy the embodiment of the attractive traits he has seen in a man he's been falling for over five seasons?

You can like or even love multiple people. Even at the same time! 😮

Believing that Buddie is or should be the endgame does not negate or disrespect Buck's arc with Tommy in any way. I question if Tommy was just a convenient character. He's a safe guy to explore Buck's evolution with. He has a history with members of the 118, but he is not integral to the cast. If it doesn't work out, he is easily explained away. Remember Natalia?

I think it is possible to have a Buck and Tommy centered arc, focused on Buck becoming comfortable with his sexuality and exploring it in a healthy, positive way and still have Buck and Eddie eventually realize they have been each other's person for years. Having both doesn't make the other any less important. How many people have dated others when their eventual life partner was right there? They had no idea they saw that person in that way.

Now that we know Buck is bi, it could lead to different interpretations of scenes:

Buck is looking at Eddie. Tommy is not there and we don't know for sure who Eddie was speaking to.

2. Look at that smile and his eyes at the end. Buck positively beams and bats his eyes when he realizes Eddie is going to look at him. That's how platonic friends look at each other?

3. But we can take it all the way back if we have to. Look at Buck when Eddie compliments him.

3b. Do you know what that reminds me of?

4. If Buck has subconciously been into guys for a long time, then this scene takes on a whole new context.

Moving closer to the other man? Check.

Eye contact? Check?

Smile and shy head duck? Check.

*I'd like to state that I have no doubt Edmundo Diaz knew Buck was into him. Look at the reaction.

5. When I'm into someone, you know what I don't talk about? Someone else.

6. Wow. Look at how Buck looks at Tommy.

6b. We have never seen that before have we?

Buck x Tommy and Buck x Eddie can coexist in harmony. Life stories are long and have jumpscares, plot twists, plot holes, etc.

Buck being genuinely attracted to Tommy doesn't mean that all the scenes from the past five seasons that made us all side-eye Evan Buckley didn't happen.

If we never get Buddie, let's just take the win. ABC said, "There are queer men in the world who are masculine, hot, and relatively stable. Let's show that."

Do we really need to talk about how the LGBTQ community was represented on their former network? I could stand on that soapbox and go off for days. Let's just say I know others who also felt some way about it, whether they were straight, queer, or allies.

I am just going to enjoy what is shaping up to be an amazing season. Moving to ABC breathed new life into 911 and I am excited. (Season six? Can we just not talk about it?)

[reyesranch]

the whole “you have no media literacy” as an argument is so funny to me because the same people who yap about it are completely missing the point of buck and tommy’s failed first date. instead of understanding and asking why it ended the way it did, you’re putting blame onto tommy as if he left you standing on sidewalk irl and then never spoke to you again. narratively there had to be conflict, because when people say ��he’s throwing himself back into the hamster wheel” well, maybe that’s true at first.

he once again is finding himself in some sort of romantic endeavor without much thought, which on one hand kudos to buck for not having a gay meltdown after realizing he’s into guys too, it’s really nice to see that he’s mostly really cool about this new fact about himself—until reality hits.

suddenly buck is not cool about the fact that he’s into guys and on a date with a guy because no one else knows yet. he’s so caught off guard because he wasn’t ready to share it, it’s new and nerve wracking despite being an 🏳️‍🌈 ally 🏳️‍🌈.

there had to be conflict to get buck to the place he needed to be to continue his queer arc. while its hard watching tommy cut their date short, it needed to happen for the story to continue. it gave buck time to think, gave him time to really process his feelings and work out the issues he was having with his queerness aka being open about it. tommy even said he didn’t want to pressure buck and it’s the reason he cut the date short, because buck didn’t seem ready and tommy very obviously didn’t want to drag it out and end up with them both hurt more so than ending it then and there.

even after bombing his date with tommy he still seeks his sister for advice and ends up coming out to her (accidentally but it’s the first step) and then proceeds to gush about tommy even though at that point, their little romance was over.

we witness buck try to come out to eddie once before finally pulling up his big boy pants and telling eddie “it was a date, when you and marisol ran into me and tommy. we were on a date.” and then proceeded to confide in eddie that he cannot stop thinking about tommy and eddie tells buck to call tommy, buck is scared tommy will say no, eddie says if he knows buck’s an idiot he’ll love him and if he doesn’t then screw him.

tommy says yes. he agrees to meet with buck after the chaos of their first date because “of course” he wants to hear what buck has to say. he tell’s buck he doesn’t need to apologize but lets him anyway because buck needs to apologize. for himself if no one else. he realizes his behavior was bad, that it wasn’t fair to tommy. he owns up to it but tommy still assures buck he overall ended the date because he didn’t want buck to feel pressured. buck admits he wasn’t ready but that after some time and thinking, he knows he can not stop thinking about tommy and what they could be. he invites him to be his date at a wedding, his sisters wedding and tommy albeit dare i say, flabbergasted, ultimately agrees because clearly, he also cannot stop thinking about buck or else why would he have given this a second chance?

the conflict of the failed first date is there to show buck’s growth from that hamster wheel mentality to grounding himself into something he knows that he wants.

that my friends, is media literacy.

you can agree to disagree.

[dimplyowl]

😩 one of the main things I see about Izzy and why he’s an innocent little lamb who has done nothing wrong is that he’s got a lot of internalized homophobia going on, as well as issues with toxic masculinity. And yeah, OFMD is all about taking those toxic societal expectations and telling them to shove themselves up their asses. And I think having a character who has those internalized feelings and who holds onto them until being proven that they’re wrong is an interesting character arc. Growth is a great thing! We love to see it!

The problem comes when people use those characteristics as excuses for any of izzys bad behaviors, as if they give him a free pass to do whatever he wants to do. But that’s not how these things work. The problem I have with Izzy’s character arc in s2 is that he doesn’t do anything to make reparations until his deathbed apology to Ed. He just kind of…continues to be there, ignoring Ed, letting the crew extend kindness to him and still not really engaging until Calypso’s Birthday.

You know who has done some really shitty things and does actually work toward making reparations? Ed. And that’s another thing I see a lot of Izzy fans say: that gb people give Ed a free pass for everything he did because of his childhood and his trauma and his self hatred and broken heart. But babes, when we talk about these issues, you’re misunderstanding why we’re talking about them. I obviously can’t speak for all Ed fans, but the majority of us aren’t listing these issues as excuses, we’re naming them as reasons for his behavior. So we can understand why he feels the way he feels and did the things he did.

I am fully aware that he did some really shitty things to people who care about him and who he cares about. I acknowledge that. I also know why he did them. And knowing why doesn’t make it okay. It helps me understand him more, and to know that he wasn’t doing them because he enjoyed them and, most importantly, that they’re things he regrets doing. That’s obvious throughout the entirety of eps4-6, in his hesitance to return to the ship, in agreeing to wear a burlap sack and allowing Lucius to push him over the ship, in taking time to actually listen to fang about his own experiences during the kraken era. It’s part of the entire reason they have a party, it’s part of turning poison into positivity. Ed doesn’t have great apology skills. His “apology” speech was definitely lacking as far as our modern standards are concerned. That’s fine. Those aren’t natural skills to have, they’re learned, and he never really had the opportunity to learn them. But you can see that he wants to, and he’s trying and he’s learning, and that’s the most important thing.

Izzy doesn’t do that shit. In season 1 he uses his position of power to bully the crew, to go against Ed’s orders (his captains orders; that’s essentially mutiny right there); he loses and turns his captain and a ship full of queer and poc to the cops; he then becomes captain and it takes less than a day for the crew to mutiny on him because he’s a fucking asshole and no one wants to work for him; and to top it all off, he tells his boss—his friend, supposedly, his depressed and already established to be suicidal friend—that he would be better off dead than be like he is.

Where are his attempts at reparation? Where does he turn around and say “yeah calling the cops on you was fucking horrible and I shouldn’t have done it” or “I shouldn’t have said those things when you were already struggling” or “I’m sorry for taking advantage of my power and using it to bully and abuse my employees and another captain’s crew.”? He doesn’t do any of that. He doesn’t even try.

Internalized homophobia doesn’t make intimidating your gay subordinate or calling your friend a “namby pamby in a silk dressing gown” okay. Toxic masculinity doesn’t make repeatedly insulting someone for having traditionally feminine traits and interests okay. Doing those kinds of things can never be okay. But recognizing these as faults and actively working to improve yourself and grow and apologize to the people you’ve hurt and try to make things better does make it more likely for the people who care about you to forgive you.

[neptune-scythe]

I think it's so interesting that they chose to bring gerard and tommy back in the same season,

like of all the people to put in the gay realization arc, they bring in Tommy the same season they bring back gerard like why aren't we talking about this actually

which granted i don't know if they had planned gerard coming back all the way in the begining of season 7 but since there were only the 10 episodes they did probably have some idea where they were going with the season so it's very likely hey knew how it was going to end as well

and like those two character specifically

the ones who were honestly the main obstacles in both Hen and Chim's begins episodes like there's something going on there

and like Tommy wasn't even a queer character before season 7, so it wasn't even like they just grabed the only gay they had to bring back, they made him gay for that plot, which means they could have literally grabbed any other previous character or came up with a new one for the queer awakening

but it's like such an interesting juicy choice to bring those two back, especially since it's buck's first experience with both of them, like the paralells between those characters

the way Buck has to deal with the bitch ass boss a work and the come home to bitch ass boyfriend

and especially the tommy of it all like he could easily come across as ok and just like kinda sus whatevs maybe but not too big a deal but to have him there along with gerard, where he's gonna be in a situation where all of gerards flaws that tommy shares are going to be brought to light, tommy isn't going to be able to hide

and you bet your ass buck is going to notice the way tommy is never going to take his side when he complains about Gerard (like we've already seen in 8x01), or agree with him bro only has a few more "sounds like Gerard"s left him before mr. audhd puts two and two together and goes "erm who's side are you on babe" and mr. jealous lying liar who lies is going to pull some wordsmith vague shit that is very none commital and doesn't give a straight answer and mr. doesn't know when to let shit go or drop anything ever will not stop pushing until the truth comes out and tommy's true nature is revealed

and also i think good for Buck to stand up for himself in his personal life

like bro has no issue fighting back at work (obviously), but other than the Taylor break up (and, i guess natalia too but we didn't actually see that) he doesn't really think too much about it, he just wants to be loved and cherished and he just kind of goes wherever he feels that or thinks he may feel eventually and he doesni't really look at the situation objectively to see if it's really what he needs and is good for him

and even with the taylor break up, it kinda just came out of nowhere like until that one episode they were doing fine, they seemed good with each other, every time we saw them they were putting effort into the relationship and didn't really seem to be headed towards a break up, and even right before they broke up when Buck was talking about it to Eddie or whoever, it wasn't really in a way that made it seem like they were going to break up, he was just talking about how angry he was and all that and he didn't want to be mean, so even then we didn't really get to see him really looking at their relationship and coming to that conculsion it was just the one corversation with Eddie about how he needed to talk to her, and then them breaking up

but i digress the point is it'll be very good for buck to be the on the break up with Tommy. and especially over him being a racist sexist jerk to his friends, which objectively is bad and anyone should be broken up with for that but it'll force buck to think about his priorities and what's important to him and what he really wants/needs out of a relationship and why he even started dating tommy in the first place which was because he was just projecting his feelings for Eddie onto Tommy

but Buck knows he's bi now and Eddie's gonna know he's queer it's all going to fall into place

and also i think the absence if Christopher is going to play into all that as well becuase it's going to make Buck realize how important he is to him like obviously the whole tsunami was very telling of how much Buck cares for Christopher, but that was very tense life and death situation and very emotionally charged and hightened and there was also the element of not wanting to let eddie down and all that and he was depressed and sad and lonely and all that

but i digress

christopher being gone is going to force him to realize what a huge part of his life Christopher and Eddie are and how important they are to him, and why

I think contrasting his relationship with Tommy and his relationship with Eddie will be very enlightening for him and make him actually step back and objectively look at his relationship with Eddie and what exactly that means and what it is and what it's always been

[galactic-rhea]

The thing with Anakin TCW is that I try to reconcille both "versions" of Anakin, but because I keep in mind that at the end of the day, TCW is a serialized kids show, and he's also a general and in charge of a padawan so he must be really charismatic for that to work (long rambling ahead)

This show came in an era where shows ran long, with very random plots per episode and just very few that advanced "a plot", so characters that are new for the show get more development (since they were at zero), and Anakin with already three movies (technically 6 if we count the original trilogy), a mini series, and a bunch of books and comics, feels more flat for the very short narrative purposes.

The way i see it, TCW can be like seeing Anakin from someone's else eyes, like that's probably how Obi-Wan and Ahsoka and Rex saw him, cocky and sassy and fearless and daring and untouchable and cool and sometimes with anger coming from apparently nowhere, and the movies are the actual "omnipresent" look, we see how actually deeply fucked up and scared Anakin is!

TCW gives like a very pink tinted glasses view of him, a very standarized version of him, since the "otherness" that he has in the prequels was really hated (and with otherness i mean that he acts alienated and tormented, is because of the trauma, but also because he can be so easily read as neurodivergent and/or queer; movie Anakin looks like he might as well be a giant walking target for bullying, so to speak), so TCW Anakin looks like he totally would have never ever been bullied, he's the cool kid.

If I don't constantly keep on mind this is probably Ahsoka's POV, it can be a bit hard to connect, like the last episodes in TCW, when he sees Ahsoka, he's like 2 days before ROTS, and he looks so cheerful and normal and sassy, but then if you look at ROTS, he looks so tired and beaten up and just depressed after that battle. But Anakin, in AOTC and ROTS, in general, is a person that looks like doesn't even want to be there at all, he looks like he would rather turn invisible.

I don't have that many problems with Anakin in TCW except for certain arcs (looking at you clovis), because many things in the show do add to Anakin's narrative and character (or more like, pilling up even more trauma onto him for the big moment), but it's not a complete look because by the point we should see how he's dealing or coping with something the episode ends and the next episode is about something different. TCW is plot focused and there are very little "breathing" moments before the action, and is not very character focused. Which leaves the audience with the task of remembering that whatever happened in the show is another piece of the puzzle that may or may not fit perfectly with the character that was presented on the prequels.

"This episode very painfully reminds you that he was a slave, and he's angry about it, very angry...for one bit of the episode, let's go back to the fun action." It touches it, but it doesn't explore it, if you get what I mean? Like, we can only imagine if he had difficult weeks after that or how even was the conversation after all that whole mess, just as an example.

I agree that Anakin in TCW is a incomplete version of his character, because TCW focuses a lot on the Clones and Ahsoka and other little stories, however I also think it does add lots of stuff to explore, even if the show didn't explore it deeply, but touched on it.

And I understand too why it causes such a division, and why some may prefer the TCW version more, and why some may prefer only the movies version.

I mainly use the movies, and then take from TCW what I feel like it fits/makes sense for him, and shake TCW a little bit if i need to, although i still really love it : D

[thejagermeister]

this might be a controversial opinion so i will preface by saying that max is one of my favorite characters in hatchetfield and i love him very much. however

i think some folks take parts of his canon characterization (namely, his emotional intelligence and the fact that he acts kinda sweet after the prank reveal) and their neurodivergent/queer/etc headcanons (which are perfectly valid! i am an "autistic trans girl max" guy through and through) and arrive to the conclusion that max wasn't actually that bad of a bully.

as in, he didn't bully the nerds for showing queer/nd traits, he bullied them for other reasons. but like. what other reasons would he have.

like sure, he flick-it tickets richie for being in his hallway, but that's because richie "stinks the place up," and max doesn't want that in his space. richie's self-proclaimed overactive sweat glands are either a health issue or a nd hygiene issue or a combination of both.

he targets pete because of the rumor that he has a small dick. some folks use this as evidence for trans pete (i wholeheartedly agree) but even if you don't consider it from that angle, it's still body-shaming.

ghost!max makes fun of ruth for daring to engage with her dream hobby in privacy. he makes pun after pun about theatre to rub it in. the whole point of bullying is to isolate people who are different, whether they're nd, queer, poor, people of color, disabled, etc...

the takeaway from the "difference between intent and impact" scene is that he uses his emotional intelligence and "inclusive" vocabulary to manipulate people, not that he actually learns anything about inclusion. he'd know what transgender means and would probably say he isn't transphobic, use all the "right" language, but then turn around and make fun of pete for his body.

the "bully uses victim's preferred pronoun!" memes are funny and i'm not trying to police anyone's fandom experience by saying you can't talk about max like that. softening his harsher traits in fanfic where the focus isn't on a max redemption isn't like, a crime. do whatever you want. but sometimes i get the feeling people straight-up forget the way he acts towards the nerds in canon.

to me, the appeal of a max redemption arc is that he goes from a terrible, cruel, arguably traumatized person, to someone who's willing to learn from his mistakes and make amends. not that he was already kind of an okay guy to begin with.

[wenellyb]

I have a theory that while many may not agree, I think there’s some truth to it. I think behind the scenes, this season was the make or break if they were going to commit and do buddie. I think that when they asked Lou to come back they still weren’t sure if they were going to commit (which is why he only got a 4 episode arc) or not. I think by the time 7x04 aired they still weren’t sure which is why Tim said as of right now he’s not planning (which isn’t a yes and isn’t a no) and why Oliver’s interviews immediately after 7x04 were still kind of neutral but still entertaining the idea of it. But I think by 7x06 they got their answer and I think Tim and the crew on the show decided to close the book on Buddie and queer Eddie. This can be scene in the sharp turn that post 7x06 interviews went: Kenny saying it’s the buck and Tommy show and bringing up BuckTommy in interviews, JLH saying to move on and talking about BuckTommy when asked about Buddie. It just further nailed in the coffin when Ryan began his hetero campaign in all of the interviews post 7x07. I think Tim has moved on from a romantic buddie plot and that is why he brought back Lou for 7x09 and 7x10 to show the audience that this is where the story is going.

I was really thinking about this after seeing that (supposed) insider going on that hour long rant and seeing how bitter they got as the season went on. It makes sense as to why you would get more bitter as your ships gets shut down behind the scenes. And do you think if queer Eddie still had a chance of happening, they would be spoiling it now? They’re only talking about it because they know it’s not happening. You don’t get bitter like that when you know the thing you love is still going to happen.

Sorry for the long rant!

Hi Anon, please never apologize for sending your theories, I love long rants!

I think you're absolutely right because I was also wondering how come they went from a 4 episode arc to 6 episode arc for Tommy, especially since his scene in episode 10 served no purpose to the story just cemented his relationship with Buck.

I agree there was a shift around episode 5.... becaise if Buck and Tommy had been temporary that would have been the perfect opportunity to let Tommy go, after the "failed" first date, but instead they doubled down on Bucktommy and not only did they stay together Buck invited Tommy to his sister's wedding, not just a regular date.

I really think they decided after ep 4 , but still weren't sure by the time episode 4 aired as you mentionned.

I love your theory and I really think you're right because it also checks out with the Lou & Oliver interview that aired before episode 9. Buck and Tommy didn't even have a lot of scenes in that episode so what was the point on having the actors do a couples interview before it aired if not to cement Buck and Tommy as a couple.

And also the cast reactions you mentionned.

I don't hate the ship at all, but I don't see Buddie happening either, there would have been at least a few hints if it were to happen and unti now, all the show has done it point out how Buck and Tommy were serious about eachother.

Thank you for the ask, I love these discussions!

[brilliantfantasticgeronimo]

thought to myself u know what. i havent watched falsettos enough. so here's a couple things i noticed in my latest impromptu rewatch (rewatch number 52th probably?? 67th?) + just some nice bits n parallel that are always Good (tm):

"he loves another" "i agree" with ("-man") going unsaid

the chess games following trina's song about stupid men and their little games

"that's the king. please protect him" That's marvin saying "please protect me. don't hurt me"

whizzer moves the pieces randomly in the revival but i like to imagine he's actually beating marvin at the game in the end... and the whole thing was him pretending to not know how to play, and that hurt marvin's ego more than anything

"now marvin, bend" as a sexy moment but later gets re-framed as a "unwillingness to change perspective" moment

"nothing is everything to me / except sex / and money" in that money whizzer is playing to marvin's insecurity that he's only sticking with marvin for his money- is so needlessly cruel (and thus such... delicious character writing lol)

"and he loves me so" that "so" at the end is sort of a "loves me so much" but also a dare. he loves me, so what can you even do about that?"

"ask me if i love him, it depends on the day"// "do i love him?… no"

"son with a brain, and nice bright mother" showing mendel is like marvin (+ many, many men) and wants a wife half just to do domestic labor for him (goes well with the "washing your laundry, washing your socks!" line)

"he loves his father" // "i love things i never had"

"im everything he wanted" here trina finally realizes how she was such a insecure woman for such a long time and why she could put up with so much / settle for so little ("love me for what i am, not what i try to be" etc)

i love that "what ive done to you is rotten" is the slap to trina, is not taking to jason about his sexuality, and is Also telling trina and jason he "never ever, wanted to love" them. triple treat of bad parenting lol (but our man gets there in the end #bless him)

"a man kid, you'll be kid, whatever your song" the kind of reversed coming out metaphor of it all. ugh. so good!! (also i always cry at this bit bc... i will never have this with my parents :) rip haha whoops)

"pretty boys are in demand" just a good line for the whole gay men dying everywhere + the 'dating frenzy' energy of the era

"im not a giant man" /"good" // "one day i hope to be / as mature as my son who is 12 and a half / and this tall… that's all i want to be, that's all"

"we'll spent BILLIONS of dollars" and then the actual thing plays the way it does

"making the most pathetical errors" as a metaphor for marvin's arc…. making constant errors in love but making a homerun at the end

"should i take this new promotion OR should i take this IBM job?" is an amazing, anti-corporate lyric that fits greatly w/ the most explicitly political (likely authorial) song in the musical that, imho, shouldn't have been cut in the revival. in hindsight tho i imagine the revival people felt very proud and """progressive""" when they made that cut lol is very much a typical liberal move: "cant have true emancipation or revolutions but u cant have some \~upward mobility in the job market xoxo". also on the same vein, cutting the line "i'll change my life, and hire a maid" from the og "and fire the maid" like it's this huge feminist moment lol ughhhh hh

(other line-cuts that frustrate me… "it's queer, mr. marvin", "i could use a little drink" and "i just bought a family" . i feel w/ all of these they tooks some "edge" of the OG characters and kind of attempted to make them "nicer". but it really just makes them a little flatter, a little less real) ( and also some scenes just plain make less sense (marvin's drink line leading to his outburst)

(but bc it's not All Bad sdklfj in fairness, i belie the whole "why don't we tell him, that we don't have the awnsers? (…) this is the start to his becoming a man" bit - is SUCH a great part for mendel, it goes so hard and from what i remember is not in the original falsettos? correct me if im wrong but if it was a new addition in the revival, imo it's a huge improvement to the scene flow… and dare i say, brings the whole climax together, and spells out The Aesop for people who hadn't gotten it by the end of Act 2) -"let me go, im not ashamed to have loved you" // "what's the matter trina, darling, why cant you let go?" -"feel all right for the rest of your life" The Message of the play implicit in it.. "even if it's cut short"

"you save lives, and i serve chicken fat / i can't fucking deal wit hthat" / "maybe is not dumb the way this whole thing ends / the food tastes really yummy!"

"it's about growing up, getting older, living on a lover's shoulder" /"but i confess, you grow up, you get old, you hate less"

"the ground shifting, the rules keeps changing" and it's when the set changes for the first time!!! (/eats all my walls)

"isn't it enough i love you every night?" "who?" // "we had trouble parking, just like on our second date" "i hyperventilate"

"good men never fail" // "but i can't help but feeling i've failed " proving once again those machista lessons marvin learned when young were wrong.... it's clear that him showing weakness at that moment to whizzer was The Right Thing To Do. and what the moment called for.

"the last little mountain ill climb" sound of music ref? maybe?

i only wanted to love and not be blamed " // "who would i blame my life on?"

[bengiyo]

Hi, i'm a newish bl drama watcher from thailand that just started watching thai bls. i'm a bit ashamed to say that for a long time as a gay man living here i've been avoiding bl shows like the plague cuz of both the fandom reputation and of misconception from my yaoi era which i leave far behind. i'm just want to ask how did you got into watching thai bls and what were you preconception before you got into it.

Welcome to the Tumblr side of BL fandom. I'd actually like to also hear more of your experience with yaoi and BL as a gay person growing up in Thailand if you're willing to share.

For me, I'm a Black American from the Gulf Coast (the South). I grew up in a Catholic city and spent my entire adolescence in the closet. Despite having a sense of who I was as early as 8 years old, I kept most of that to myself. Because I didn't talk about it much with people, I found out most information about queer media and queerness from the internet.

I entered BL via queer cinema. I think the first explicitly gay character that I remember from TV was Marco from Degrassi: The Next Generation. There were probably others, and definitely more subtle expressions, but when I think about the oldest gay character I remember and connect to, it's Marco. I don't like counting things like shipping Shawn and Corey on Boy Meets World or Tai and Matt on Digimon for oldest gay characters. Sailor Moon can't even count because we got a censored version of it in America.

I got access to satellite television away from observing eyes around age 16 and started watching content on Logo back when they aired gay content regularly. I watched basically whatever I could late at night. It's how I saw movies like Get Real (1998), Beautiful Thing (1996), and Bent (1997). It's also how I saw Queer as Folk (2000-2005) Noah's Arc (2005-06).

After hitting adulthood I mostly got lost in video games and standard American TV for a while, but I did basically show up to any Gay Event in TV. I appreciate that Stef and Lena from The Fosters (2013-2018) were some of the only TV lesbians to survive the horror of 2016.

I watched a bunch of movies in this time, many of which appear on the Queer Cinema Syllabus I made for a hypothetical Westerner new to BL and queer cinema, which @wen-kexing-apologist has decided to try to complete.

I got into Thai BL in 2018 accidentally. I started seeing gifsets of Kongpob telling Arthit he'll make him his wife passing around Tumblr and was basically like, "Right, what's all this then?"

I had watched a few Thai gay films, mostly notably Love of Siam (2007), Bangkok Love Story (2007), How to Win at Checkers Every Time (2015), and The Blue Hour (2015), but this was the first time I was seeing a long series made available so easily from any Asian country.

From there I got into Make It Right (2016-17) and Love Sick the series (2014). Once I realized that yaoi had moved beyond manga and a few anime adaptations, I went looking for a lot more. I basically haven't left since I started in about 2016 with SOTUS.

There's my basic entry into the genre. I don't think I was as worried about fandom and worries at the time because so much of being a fan of queer cinema was a mostly-private experience for me for so long. I didn't realize that BL fans active in the space would predominantly be women or queers figuring themselves out. It took a while to adjust to that, and also to adjust my expectations of the kinds of queer stories BL distributors were willing to fund.

That being said, I tend to agree with @absolutebl that BL has a useful role in normalization for non-queer audiences who encounter it. I like cheering BL when it does things I think work really well, and also deriding it when I think it does things that are offensive to help nudge the genre and offer my perspective as a gay man.

I like the place we're at right now where there's way too much to watch for any person with other hobbies and responsibilities because it means that people can pick and choose what's to their tastes.

More often than not, I'm probably most-invested in something airing from Japan because of my melancholy nature, but there's so much variety these days that it's okay if you don't like everything. I certainly don't!

I'm glad you joined us on Tumblr and look forward to your thoughts!

[outrunningthedark]

My personal favorite was people getting mad about Bucktommy fans talking about wardrobe, as if one of the Buddie bnf accounts hasn't written goddamn essays about color theory, social media theory and etc....OH, and called the POC WOMAN who actually is employeed on the show a liar when she said color theory was bullshit.

...BNFs do all that and then can't handle people coming into their inbox when their theories are proven wrong again lmao OH, and called the POC WOMAN who actually is employed on the show a liar when she said color theory was bullshit Okay, this part I want to focus on. Besides the fact that color theory being not that serious makes COMPLETE sense (there's no way wardrobe has an unlimited budget so obviously some items of clothing WOULD have to be reused and reusing clothes is what real people do all the time anyway, as pointed out by the crew), anyone taking issue with someone IN the wardrobe department shutting down their theory is proof that this fandom cannot handle the truth. "Tim's never explicitly stated Buddie won't happen." "Ryan never said he didn't want the queer arc for Eddie." (How many times does one man have to use the word "hetero" I wonder...) These fans love to use what hasn't been directly stated as some kinda "gotcha" over the rest of us when the reality is that they have been told OVER AND OVER which aspects of the show shouldn't be taken as a hint of anything - Eddie yelling for Buck during the lightning strike, Kristen repeatedly telling fandom her focus was on the friendship, Bi Buck not playing into the "queer guy is in love with his best friend" trope, Eddie's role in 7x04 as a bait and switch so the BuckTommy kiss would be even more surprising, Ryan's feelings on Buck getting the bi arc and the importance of letting men act in whatever way feels authentic to them without assuming they're closeted - and what do they do? Ignore it. Call cast and crew liars. Act like they KNOW better than the people putting the show together just because those people said something they don't agree with.

There is no point in being blunt, in being honest with them. (Though we certainly have fun with it.) If it's not what Buddies want to hear, they will pretend it was never said to begin with.

[let-us-cultivate-our-garden]

I used to be part of the TOH fandom but left after the finale - I felt it was very lacking and was a huge letdown for all the reasons you said. Patting itself on the back and lore erasure. But I'd like to ask about something different.

It's no secret Dana hates Disney. But saying it everywhere, the jabs at Disney in the actual show, the attitude of fans parroting her, especially when the news of the shortening was first out - it was legitimately intense. Disney the company has done bad things. But there was a period where I felt like a bad person for even remotely enjoying Disney movies and Disney-published books. I hated myself and felt I was 'betraying' the show, because I had been told Disney was the enemy and nothing more. Disney shortening the show was not a good decision. But it also provided fans with a convenient scapegoat to put every bit of blame on when the show had the tiniest flaw. Comics of beating up Mickey Mouse, 'Disney' being treated like a swear word, praising TOH as the holy grail of animation and saying Disney hated gay people - it made me feel I was a traitor to the show and to myself. (I'm still figuring out my sexuality, but I know I'm not straight.)

Do you think the Disney blame game was too much?

The toh fandom has this incredibly binary way of thinking; the show is the greatest thing in animation and if you don't agree then you're a bigot. Lumity is the best sapphic ship ever and if you don't think so then you're lesbophobic. Shipping non canon ships is tantamount to a war crime. And of course, any criticism of the show has the convenient Disney defense. Any and all flaws of the show is because Disney is evil for not letting the show reach its full potential.

Listen, getting your show cancelled or shortened sucks. But, unfortunately, it's not unique and writers need to prepare for that because it seems to be an occupational hazard in the entertainment industry. A lot of shows get cancelled without even having a conclusion (thank you Netflix for ending the Dark Crystal: Age of Resistance on a cliffhanger! even after the show won a got dang Emmy! 😤) so people should be thankful that at least the toh crew were allowed to finish the story.

I can give grace when analyzing a show's elements knowing what the writers had to deal with. But if they make decisions knowing ahead of time that they only have half a season and 3 specials left, and proceed to add more characters and plot lines that would require a longer season, then those are all fair game.

Dana knew of the Shortening around the production of Eda's Requiem, yet decided to add the Collector, because screw it! We like this little guy and want to see where it goes! They had Hunter get possessed and kill his best friend, yet barely any time is given to him to process that trauma. In the penultimate episode, Boscha, of all people, gets a mini sub plot despite not being relevant for a full season. Luz's angst arc gets 4. separate. resolutions.

None of this is Disney's fault. This all on the crew for not using their precious time wisely and tossing whatever they can to the wall to see what sticks.

So yeah, the Disney blame game is too much but it's also a blessing in disguise because now it's a convenient shield for whoever doesn't want to hear criticism about the show.

As for feeling guilty about liking Disney; listen, Disney has been foundational for literally millions of people for decades. Its presence and influence is seemingly inescapable. And the company has done some awful things in the name of corporate greed and profit.

But you should never feel guilty for liking something that brings you joy.

Remember that writers and artists are responsible for the shows you love. Many queer folks have seen themselves in Disney movies for a variety of reasons and there are many queer artists that have worked for Disney (hi Howard Ashman and Andreas Deja!)

So no, you're not a traitor for liking Disney.

The toh fandom has a very reactionary, us-vs-them attitude and it's incredibly toxic. So don't let the haters get you down!

I wish you well on your journey and hope you're in a better place.

Thank you for the ask!

[manicpixieyandere]

The League of Villains

Society and Quirks

So we just finished binging all of MHA and read the remaining chapters of the manga. And damn we did not expect the League of Villains to be some of our favorite characters to ever grace this Earth! But it's kinda unfortunate the franchise the ended up in. Let's talk about that!

First let's start by talking about the LoV and what quirks represented for them. In MHA it's quite common for quirks to be used as allegories for different kinds of marginalization.

Heteromorphs like Spinner are a representation of racism.

Toga's quirk is a representation of how she loves someone and how society deems that love "wrong". Toga is shown to love both boys and girls. People beg her to "just be normal". She is obviously queer.

Dabi's body was not made to deal with his own quirk. This reads as being born disabled. He also has the common disabled experience of being told to forget his dreams and aspirations.

Twice's double quirk and the trauma that came from it lead to him developing dissociative identity disorder.

Some in the LoV were also marginalized / had a rough start without anything to do with their quirks.

Magne is a trans woman.

Mr. Compress comes from a family lineage of criminals.

Shigaraki is a League of Legends player.

(No but seriously this poor kid was abused and manipulated his whole life).

Speaking of which a lot of the LoV were abused and / or neglected as children. Most of the shit Shigaraki went through was due to All For One, but it's not like his bio dad was stellar either. We all know Endeavor gets the worst dad of the year award for how he raised Toya, but Dabi also got the AFO manipulation to a degree as well. Toga's parents were neglectful and verbally abusive.

All of this is to say; The LoV members clearly had a rough life. But they found a family in each other! They all cared for each other in their own way! Twice and Toga were very close and would take care of each other. Dabi burns down Toga's childhood home. Spinner and Shigaraki bond over video games and were genuine friends. Compress takes care of everyone and saves them. Everyone is sad when Magne and Twice die.

All of this leads to this beautiful line from Shigaraki:

He wanted to be their hero. He wanted to destroy the world not just for his own urges, but to make the world a better place for his friends, for the LoV. But did he succeed, even a little bit?

Wellll... The hero society that doomed them all is still going well and thriving. The most change to come out of their mission was a bigger focus on quirk counseling. This is definitely important but it is not the only thing that needed to change. And it only changed because of ONE PERSON. The ONE person who showed empathy for Toga. Ochaco is the one to implement this change, but she is only one person. She cannot change the entire world on her own.

This is where we just can't get past the clear biases in the writing of MHA. The villains are not treated fairly. For example the heroes get off scott free with practically EVERYTHING. Bakugo dies? Just kidding! Oh the condition for him coming back to life was now Edgeshot has to die? Nah he's fine too. Deku had an entire arc about wanting to save Shigaraki when no one else agreed, only for him to kill him in the end. And after killing him it's not like he implemented changes to help prevent whoever the next Shigaraki is gonna be. The cycle will continue until changes are made.

So as you can see there is clear favoritism in the writing. And that is something that tends to be an issue whenever you have a plot device such as quirks that represent marginalization and you have villains who are trying to fight their oppressors. Let's look at a few examples!

For animation fans an example that leaves a bitter taste in our mouth is The Dragon Prince's dark magic. Dark magic is something that is seen as corrupt but also explained to be a way for humans to have magic to fight their oppressors as they were seen as less than since they had no magic. But dark magic is also used as an allegory for drugs and addiction, so it gets messy.

For the superhero fans let's look at The Boys. Supes are a complete mess. You have them representing conservatives and cops in an "all supes are bastards way" while also having them as a marginalized race in danger of being genocided. You can't have both.

Both of these examples show messy allegories in fantasy where rising against your oppressors is painted as wrong and the marginalized are also seen in a negative light due to some other component of their fantasy (drugs and cops respectively). MHA falls into the same trap with its villains. They're fighting their oppressors. They are oppressed due to their quirks just being who they are, but those quirks also lead to violent murderous urges (decay and transform most of all). It ends up creating a scenario where you teach the audience that it's bad to rise against your oppressors, it's bad to want change.

So what could they have done differently? Without completely redoing the quirk fantasy, the simplest answer would be to REDO THE SYSTEM! They hinted many times in the series it needed to change somehow and just never did. Normal civilians even wanted it changed, not just the villains! But it just doesn't change. They needed to put more focus on that push not just from the villains but from the innocent civilians as well to prove it's something that needed to change. But it never will. It's fiction and the book is closed.

But just because it's fictional doesn't mean it doesn't represent real world events. The story teaches negative things about marginalization and how we should never make a stand. It's like telling all the women right now in America to not be angry their anatomy and rights are being taken away from them. It's telling those women to love the man who is doing this to them. It's telling queer people to just accept they can't get married or transition anymore. It's telling us there is nothing to be done. But remember that isn't true! If you keep fighting things could change. It unfortunately may not be in your lifetime, but at least we can try to make things better for the future generations so no one has to hurt like the LoV did, like real people do today.

[sunshine-theseus]

warning: heartbreak high season2 spoilers

i thought while i'm making my comeback i'll talk about a bunch of different shit like chelsea games and the way sharn freier is literally a star girl and now she's not my team's secret anymore.

BUT the 2nd season of Heartbreak High (if you are or aren't australian, please watch it. it's so good. it's on netflix) came out yesterday and i've already finished it and i have so many thoughts.

first off how the fuck did rowan manage to bag malakai and amery of all people. i'm sorry but this motherfucker rocks up in term 2, a new kid, dressed like dean winchester with the hair of sam winchester and 2 of the hottest people at Hartley, who were a couple mind you, fall in love with him. i have to congratulate the writers on actually understanding what a love triangle is though; instead of making it a love... line? also i took a complete stab in the dark about him hallucinating his brother not long into watching it and i was right :D

BI MALAKAI YOU WILL CATCH ME SOBBING IN THE CORNER I LOVE HIM SO MUCH

this may be hot take, but i can't stand the way darren can't take accountability for their actions. they absolutely came for quinni's throat when she expressed her feelings and told her that the world can't revolve around her and accommodate all her needs... the world can't always accommodate quinni... a queer, autistic woman... and then they don't even actually apologise for what they said to her? and then they seek out an old hook up to have sex when cash comes back from the last "mission" with chook. should cash have done it without telling them? no. was it the right thing to do? no. but going to hook up with someone WHEN YOU'RE STILL IN A RELATIONSHIP?? and then calling it drama?? fucking wild idk

i don't know how i feel about the spider redemption arc they tried to do, but fucking hell did voss piss me the fuck off. dude shut the fuck up, if you want to be taken seriously maybe don't wear a lycra body suit to work. i can't be mad about spider trying to be a better person but i don't like that they made him take a fucking huge jump back when missy said it wasn't going to work, or that the reason he was like that was because he had a hyper-feminist mum. she was horrendous trying to use missy to try and "fix him" and missy ate calling that artwork out for being fake. speaking of, missy is so strong minded, why the fuck did they make her fold for sasha's "people like him can't change" spiel, didn't even think, instantly agreed. sasha was so annoying

i kind of wish harper didn't drop the case, but i think it was something that took a lot of courage. the way woodsy taught her to drive and was so excited when she passed the test - tears were shed. i like harper and ant together i think? but i kind of wish they let it play out longer (this is me assuming there will be a third season)

uhh i can't think of much else, feel free to add.

[lemotmo]

To the Nonny who posted an ask about...

... how they think that Buddie shouldn't happen in season 8, but rather in season 9.

Okay, look. I read your ask and I understand where you are coming from. I get your frustration. I do.

None of us really expect Eddie to jump out of the closet in episode 1 and shack up with Buck in episode 2? You know? Sure, we joke about it, but we all know it's going to take some time.

I understand that you, as a writer, want to see everything developed and treated with caution. I get why you don't want the Buddie narrative to be rushed. I do. In an ideal world, I would happily sit down and watch two seasons of a very obvious Buddie build-up. I think most of us would, because the 'Will they? Won't they?' of it all? Delicious.

But we also need to be serious here. This is 911. This show is filled with underdeveloped narratives and very flawed character arcs. Realism isn't very high on their priority list. It never was.

This is the show that had Buck realise he was bisexual in one single episode and he didn't even flinch.

This is the show that had Eddie on the path to healing, but then decided he should meet his dead wife's doppelgänger so they could take away his son in the end.

This is the show that has Athena running around playing Robocop, threatening people as she, and she alone, solves all the crimes and murders in LA. Yet she gets to keep her job without any problems.

This is the show that had Bobby dead for 14 minutes, but two weeks later he was walking into the 118, smiling and hugging the others, as if he had had a minor cold and he was coming back from a week off sick.

And yes, Eddie (and all of the other characters really) has a lot of issues and realistically this would take years of therapy and working on himself, but we all know it'll only take a few episodes for him to feel better again. Cue Christopher returns home and all is well again in the Diaz household. Happy times.

It is all far from realistic, but fundamentally that's the nature of this show. It's a silly, wholesome, found-family, sometimes nerve-wracking, highly unrealistic fire fighter procedural.

And that's the whole point of it. The audience love this show because it is so ridiculously over the top. The episodes with the disasters are so iconic! These characters go through the craziest shit and always end up being okay again. It's a big old dose of the found-family trope that everybody loves to watch.

So ultimately, I don't fully disagree with you. You have a great point. And for some other more realistic procedurals? I might even have fully agreed.

But for 911? Knowing this show and how they do things? I'm fully convinced that, if they wanted to pull off queer Eddie and canon Buddie in one single season? They could and they would.

They wouldn't go there right away, because they would need to build the tension. 18 episodes is enough for them to take that tension and use it to elevate the hype. And then in episode 18? BOOM! They drop the 'fully canon' Buddie bomb for real. This way people will go into the hiatus all hyped up, which is always a good thing for a TV-show.

If they decide to not drop the 'fully canon' Buddie bomb in season 8, I do fully expect them to make it canonically absolutely clear that Eddie and Buck are in love. Again, all to create hype during hiatus.

In the end, does it really matter how and when it happens? Whatever the showrunners and writers decide upon? All we, as an audience and as a fandom, can do is accept it and go with it.

And you know what? I'll be seated and transfixed in front of my TV-screen for all of it.

What can I say? I love this flawed, but awesome TV-show so much. ❤️