#and at this point- despite all his flaws and actions. I kinda look up to Blue in a transman way; the same way i look up to mtt and spamt too

[cl-0v3r]

can I talk about something real quick?

I hate how 99% of arcane fans completely Ignore their favorite character's flaws so much. I know this has been complained about multiple times but i genuinely get so tired of it and physically need to turn off my phone when that happens.

And Im not talking about Jinx, everyone knows she's not a great person, neither am I talking about silco or Sevika or quite literally any of the characters that are placed on the darker shade of grey.

Im talking about characters like Viktor or Mel or Jayce, Vi & Caitlyn aswell, but specifically the first three.

Look, we all know what their intentions are, they only wanted to help, they wanted the best for their cities/family and their goals, but the way they do it is Flawed. The sacrifices and nuance they go through and do just to achieve that specific ideal and goal affects how morally ambiguous or not they are.

What annoys me is that most of these people KNOW, but refuse to accept it and continue bringing down other characters because they refuse to accept there's different opinions over something in the show.

Especially with viktor, he is NAUNCED. He is selfish one way or another, he is willing to destroy himself for the sake of making something too far gone work, and not only did that destroy him, but completely result in the death of Sky. And eventually, that is going to destroy his relationship with Jayce too. He refuses to create weapons even if it means as a tool for self defence because he refuses to accept that zaun is not the most stable in terms of aggression, he got mad at Jayce for calling them dangerous when there was a literal riot on the bridge, a scene playing right infront of his eyes. Again, he is rightful to feel protective of his home, but he is ignorant towards certain things too.

I see so many people ignore viktors flaws and wrong doings, did we forget who he's going to become next season or what?? He literally committed a murder wether he wanted to do it or not. which is lowkey kinda hilarious because I don't see people defending Jayce for murdering that child despite the fact that its equally as wrong as Viktors mishap. He.is.not.flawless.

Mel, oh my god. i love Mel with all my heart, shes my everything, but she is a councilor. yes she's focusing on proving her family wrong, yes she wants to make piltover a better, safer place, and I don't think she's completely ignorant towards the undercity's state, but what has she done about it? Now, its not entirely her fault, I know, its all accumulated from Himerdingers ignorance, but that does not change the fact that she is apart of the same body that kept the undercity in its current state with all its problems for generations. She is a manipulator too, she wants things to go her way, wether it was with good intent or not. She pushed for weapons, YES, as a means of self defense, YES as protection from external threats coming from places other than P&Z, but her mother wasn't completely wrong about how weapons will always be used in every way possible, but she finds it difficult to accept such fact. Not to mention the fact that she literally told a zaunite to create a weapon that would be used against zaun.

So no, her being manipulative is not hot (this literally pisses me off the most) , especially not after that scene with hoskel because she BASICALLY called him stupid and belittled him indirectly. Is it true hes not the smartest? Yeah, did she do it to get him under her palm and ended up using him to do something "Good" in the end? Yeah, Is she good at doing it? Yeah, does she look good while doing it? Yeah, but she looks good ALL THE TIME. Manipulation is not what makes her attractive, its a FLAW, an ugly one. So calling Mel attractive ONLY because she's manipulative is mischaracterization at its finest. And I will bring this point again, separate intention from action.

I don't want to get into more details about mel, I will lose myself, but she is FLAWED, shes morally grey, she isn't perfect, just as the other characters in the whole show.

Jayce, he goes through multiple extreme points during his arc, he's quick to decide on things. At some points it could be a good thing, like how he apologized to viktor for saying harsh words to him. But what his major flaw with this trait is the fact that he goes between violent and peaceful multiple times, figuratively AND literally. He was settled with the fact that he doesn't want to harm zaun, infact, he wanted to help them in the first place, but he got influenced, and ended up resorting to violence, he lost himself, and it ended with the loss of a child's life. He didn't want to make weapons before, got influenced, look where it got him now? He is selfish too, and the list goes on.

Though, Its rare to find people who defend Mel and Jayce in this entire fandom, most of the people I've seen who claim to be fans of them tend to do this all the time smh.

And I just know I will start a war as soon as I open my mouth to talk about Vi & Cait. Which is why I won't because this post is long enough and I want to cover other things.

Please keep in mind that I wrote everything as flatly as possible, so the way you understand the things I say may be different from what I initially thought of, I swear on my life I do not hate these characters, Jayce Mel & Viktor are literally my upmost favorite characters of all time.

This is mostly talking about how sometimes you need to separate the intentions from the actions these characters do, because most of the time, actions speak louder than words.

ALL your favorite characters in Arcane and flawed, they have problems, they aren't perfect. And that's what makes each so special, because it makes you wonder how they will clean their footsteps and deal with those said flaws later if they decide to partake the lighter path, or how they will step deeper into the darker one. And even so, they will still be on the grey scale.

By far, Ekko is the only character closest to white if im being honest, and he still isn't perfect.

Arcane fans need to understand their favorite characters in different points of view, not just from their eyes, even if you agree with their doings and find it right.

One big example that i will bring up again, that scene with Mel, Viktor and Jayce discussing the potential misuse of hextech as Viktor dismantles the bomb. You can understand Viktors point of view, but why not Mels too? (& Vice Versa)

Another is the scene when Vi finally gets to see her sister in episode 5, Caitlyn tagging along with her. You finally get to see powder and Vi reunited, you feel content, and then Jinx comes back and gets angry on why Vi is with an enforcer, which is well within her rights considering how they literally killed countless of zaunites and people, but why not understand from Caitlyns side too? Jinx is a wanted criminal, she'd put a building on fire, killed people in the process, stole volatile items with possibly horrible intentions considering what her crimes are.

ANOTHER is the bridge scene with Jayce and Viktor with the riots, Why the fuck is Jayce calling them dangerous infront of viktor??? Hes well within his rights to be mad! But he isn't WRONG, And jayce is under a lot of stress, and viktor is literally going against him by taking shimmer, and God that list never ends.

Literally almost any other scene.

caitlyn Ekko & Vi , Vi and the Council , Vi and Jayce , Jinx and Vi on episode 9 , Silco and Jayce , Mel and Ambessa , Mel and Viktor, Mel and Jayce in some scenes (like when she put him on the council) , singed and Viktor , etc etc etc

Need i say more??

All of these characters are full of layer upon layer of writing, they're all so well written, their intentions, ideals, morals, are all bricks and pipes of what builds them as characters, but their flaws and nuance is the 'glue' of what keeps them standing too. They may have no choice but to do or say those things that they do or say, because if they don't, they will possibly crumble. But that does not mean it gives them a pass, in the end of the day,, murder is still murder, ignorance is still ignorance, manipulation is still manipulation, and etc. They're not all equally as horrible as the other, but that does not make them better qualities, comparing all these issues/problems and completely siding with one thing because you find A to be less horrible than B is not a good start to understanding Arcane or any show with a similar level of writing to it.

as usual, im sorry for any mistakes or if this is uncollected and full of reptitivness, I don't usually correct my rants or anything because they're like... rants... And im very sorry for nagging about certain things, some points may actually be wrong so please don't feel afraid to give advice or correct me over them NICELY. Other than that its really just my opinion, i just wanted to get the "understand characters from different views" & "sEpEraTe InTentIons FroM ActIons" points across.

[seeminglyseph]

I really appreciate that Eurylochus in Epic I am pretty sure is adapted from a character in the original who is at the very least somewhat antagonistic and cowardly in characterization and has spun him into a compelling and interesting character who has genuinely caused the fandom to basically to be like “but was he wrong though?”

Because like, the fact that at multiple points both Odysseus and Eurylochus have been right at different points of their adventure and just too fucked up emotionally or too “we can’t talk about things” to like. Clear up the issues they were having, means that they just. Became a tragedy.

And it is especially beautiful because Eurylochus and Polites bring this weight of friendship and loss to Odysseus in Epic, despite their existence in the Odyssey fully lacking that characterization. Though I think it is part of the miscommunication at times because like. Perspective. And if you try to look up extra information from the source text to give more context, Eurylochus is so different in that source text that like… it will back up arguments in favour of Odysseus more easily. But modern sensibilities side with Eurylochus more easily due to monarchs and tyrants like… heavily falling out of favour. So things like kings, gods, princes, captains, status, and rank are like… they exist but they aren’t seen the same.

Like the Odyssey is set in the Mycenaean age, late Bronze Age. This was a tale of ancient times when Homer was telling it. So by modern standards things can’t help but be archaic in ways. Especially given that The Iliad and Odyssey have so much to do with colonization and war and just like. Contemplating it. Existing in it and the aftermaths of it, and being conscious that it is being told to a world of people who are still acting and living in a unifying country due to colonization, that is expanding and growing its power with war and language and colonization. And the stories of the past wars are both glorious and tragic because of the necessity for glory to the heroes of the past but caution and understanding that…

Like Troy was once favoured by Zeus, that favour can be lost or swayed. Only the gods can count on their power lasting for eternity, men must know that a grudge can bloom anywhere and topple the mightiest kingdom if he does not mind his actions carefully.

The Aeneid, by Virgil which is written much later and I admit I have only read a summary, refers to Odysseus (through his Roman name Ulysses) really negatively, but that’s partially because the Romans kinda saw themselves as refugees and survivors of Troy. So like. By the time the Aeneid was being written, it was kinda the story of “those bastards who burnt our home down” from what I understand.

“Who lives, who dies, who tells your story?” For realsies. Looking things up apparently the Aeneid was the most popular version of both the Odyssey and the Iliad for a while and it wasn’t until the World Wars that Homer’s versions came back into fashion. Part of that was translation issues but still, damn.

This has become the most unhinged ramble, I’m sorry. I don’t know what any of this is even about. Translation? Perspective? Adaptation? The power of storytelling? All of it? Honestly the fact of the matter is that Eurylochus has been adapted to a new character for Epic, but he fits the narrative of the Odyssey especially as far as we need it to be told today because of how power structures work, but it’s been executed extremely well.

It keeps the technicalities of the traits of the poem “cowardice” and “mutiny” and creates a character with insecurity and missing sense of self who is afraid in a reasonable way and in order to overcome that fear reacts with aggression or violence. But in a way that is encouraged, acceptable or rewarded for a soldier. However, as a second in command, he is accustomed to having a role where he checks Odysseus’ plans for flaws. This is a good position to have him in when you’re plotting a battle action, it’s a bad position to have him in when you need him to provide a united front to keep the crew from panicking.

His position as both one of the crew and Odysseus’ Right Hand Man puts him in a position where he gets part of Odysseus’ picture, and is used to a relationship where he can be comfortable and doubtful and easy with Odysseus, however Odysseus as the Captain and the King cannot be fallible in the eyes of his men, because his men need to be able to follow his orders without question in the case of a crisis or it will be a serious issue.

Honestly the whole “I need you to be able to trust me and follow my orders in a crisis” is… part of general insubordination going on into modern day practice in crisis response and military as far as I understand it so like. I do get that. Though like. They are… two deeply damaged and traumatized men who just… cannot have a proper conversation with each other.

And also I am of the opinion that Odysseus in Puppeteer, when he brushes off Eurylochys’ attempted confession with his

“There's only so much left we can endure”

I am pretty sure that is not just brushing off, that is fully Odysseus admitting to Eurylochus like “I can’t handle anything else, please.” Like. My brain is making parallels to FMA “terrible day for rain” and Eurylochus drops it because he’s looking at a man on the verge of breaking down, and grants him some dignity or peace.

I mean Mutiny calls back to Puppeteer when Odysseus calls Eurylochus out, he would have done the same. Eurylochus wanted to cut and run on Circe’s island, leaving the men she had to their fate. But since Odysseus has all the power he carries all the blame, which makes it easier when any of the others make a mistake or something goes wrong. And it’s part of the reason Ody goes back to being Captain as soon as the crew is in trouble again. If they’ve angered a god, it’s better and easier to have Odysseus deal with it.

Unfortunately for everyone Odysseus has now crossed the Despair Event Horizon and all that matters is Penelope, Telemachus, and Ithaca. Everyone else can go fuck themselves.

Which, you know. Bodes well for all the fucked up dweebs who’ve been harassing his family for years. That’s probably gonna go great for them considering all the last shreds of his humanity he sacrificed to get home and see them safe.

[mdhwrites]

Recently, I've been poring over the 'TOH critical' tags and, as someone who wanted to properly watch the show, seeing just how many flaws the writing and characters have kinda turned me off from even starting for a bit. Before I found these tags, I would have assumed Owl House was some kind of flawless untouchable masterpiece. Now, I can see that it is immensely flawed. Not bad, but flawed. It has great ideas that it just spaffs up the walls. In some cases that I've seen, it goes against its own message, which brings me to the point of this.

The show seems to have a message of 'be a weirdo! Be who you want to be and don't let anyone tell you to be something you're not'. This 'be yourself' message is fine in a vacuum, but then there's a character who's treatment in the show goes against this. Hooty! From the moment he's introduced, Hooty is presented as a weird creature. Even other people in the Demon Realm find him unnatural. He's kinda in his own world, and he says and does things that are weird. This would work well for the message, but the problem arises from other characters' treatment of him.

Everyone fucking HATES Hooty! They loathe him! They call him names, they hit him, they put him down constantly, the works! Everyone holds him in open contempt! I wouldn't really have an issue with this at first, but Luz also takes part in some of these actions. It would be one thing for negative/antagonistic characters to be doing this, but the self-proclaimed 'weirdo' main characters? She seems annoyed by Hooty's very existence. Don't get me wrong, he IS annoying, but he's also just being himself. He's a proud weirdo and doesn't let anyone stop him from being who he wants.

Why doesn't Luz love him?

He is exactly the type of person(?) who she should feel connected with. And the fact she joins in on some of the bullying is real shitty. Keep in mind Luz was ridiculed and ostracised for being weird, so her then turning around and being all dismissive and annoyed by someone who is, for all intents and purposes, just like her is shitty.

Personally, I would have had it that Luz really likes Hooty. She admires how he's so unapologetic in his weirdness. You could even still have Eda hitting him and calling him names, which Luz calls out. She knows what it's like to be put down for just being yourself, and she's not gonna stand to see someone else get the same treatment.

Or, another idea, Luz starts out sharing Eda's view on Hooty and being annoyed by him. One time, he does something or shows Luz something he's proud of. She calls him or it or both stupid, and Hooty just....cries. I don't mean overblown waterfalls-out-the-eyes crying, I mean he turns his head down and looks visibly upset.

Luz sees that her words have genuinely hurt Hooty. This could be her realising that Hooty isn't just some weird talking punching bag to hurl abuse at. For his weird actions and appearance, he's a person too. Her being mean to him just for being himself, she realises, makes her no better than her bullies.

Then, to make this even more shitty, the characters DO start being nicer to him later on, but only after he's proven himself useful. So that's a good message, isn't it? 'Love is conditional!' It really makes the 'found family' aspect of the Owl House residents feel all the more forced.

Tl;Dr It's okay to be a weirdo, unless you're Hooty!

(But that's just me! I hope all of this made sense and you can decipher what I'm trying to say😊)

So the short answer to this is that Hooty is essentially character/thematic assassination on... Everyone? Because the show wants to say "Be who you are! Have freedom! Express yourself!" Hooty however is constantly mocked, belittled and literally hurt by others with at best an apology. People treat his portable form as gross despite that letting him experience more of life and the one time people begrudgingly acknowledge he is truly good, they then force him to promise to not repeat the helpful behavior. He is not allowed freedom, expression or to be himself without ridicule, EVEN BY LUZ.

This... However has a bigger problem. Hooty is a bit character after all. If you want to claim he doesn't matter because he's just a joke... There's okay precedent for it. The problem is that then you have to ask what he's mocking. After all, gag characters are all about mocking a certain archtype or the like. King's whole point is to mock children who think themselves as self important and point out how deluded and funny that is, or how funny a deluded sense of self grandeur in general is, at least in the first season. As such... What is Hooty?

Hooty is Sheldon. Not literally but spiritually and this is gonna get kind of rough but here me out. For those who don't get the reference, Sheldon is the main autistic representation in The Big Bang Theory. He is also the most antagonistic force within the friend group. Not because he's evil or anything but because he his own certain ways of doing things and ways he looks at things and as such actually has a lot of episodes about expanding his perception of the world and of others learning to understand who he is and why he is the way he is. The show is actually shockingly respectful in this way, at least most of what I have seen of it, and I can portray this with the best joke I can recall from the series. It also will help me later in why The Big Bang Theory is better than TOH at one certain element people REALLY want to say TOH is great about.

The setup is that the other three main dudes are at a white board, discussing plans to go so see a movie. Every plan they devise runs into a road block because of allergies, time, etc. like that, not even only just because of Sheldon's quirks. However, then the lead, the Ross of the group, stops and goes, "I see it." The others squint and look closer before he adds, "It's the only way." The other two agree... And then they all just leave without Sheldon coming with. Sheldon pauses, looks at the board and goes, "They're correct. It was the only way."

I LOVE this joke... Because it's not mean AT ALL. One might think if they're overly sensitive that it is. I mean, how could they leave their friend behind!? But Sheldon is very honest and up front about his quirks and habits. These guys know him well enough that they know better than to force him out of his comfort zone. That he doesn't function that way. Sheldon KNOWS THIS TOO. As such, when presented with the options of telling Sheldon they can't go because they can't go without him or still having a good night and not making their friend feel bad for being why they couldn't go out, they choose to go out and Sheldon agrees that it was the correct option. They respected him while still living their lives.

And this is because The Big Bang Theory's pitch is not to be offensive to nerds like many online people like to make it out to be (I fucking hate people who call it 'Nerd Black Face') but to just make fun of us like any sitcom would. Sitcoms are parodies of real life. They always exaggerated characters we know are somewhat true. We know a Kramer, we know a Ross, we know a Barney, we know a Lorraine. Are they exactly like this? No, it's cranked up so that it's a comedy, that's the fucking point. But this comedic framing also allows it to be honest about ALL sides of nerd dom.

Sheldon is BY FAR made out to be the most successful, intelligent and wealthiest of ALL the guys. Also, all the guys are doing well in their fields and monetarily. Do they have widespread fame and acclaim? Not really but they're not discredited or anything, they just have interdepartmental bickering. That's accurate from literally every scientist I have seen talk about the subject. It's genuine about the good and the bad of the nerd experience while being entertaining.

So what the fuck does any of this have to do with The Owl House? And especially Hooty? It's actually quite simple. While TOH champions having a nerd protagonist, it presents the 'gentrified nerd'. The convenient nerd. They know about fanfiction but won't force you to actually hear about it. They have interests but not hyperfixations. They don't ever get lost down a rabbit hole because they're passionate about something or just want to tell you a neat fact.

Do you know who does though? Hooty. Hooty just wants someone who is willing to listen about his day. He has some weird quirks to how he behaves and he likes some strange things like bugs. He will talk to you for hours on a subject, randomly and just because he can and might forget that you might have other things to do. To me, those are very, VERY accurate parts of nerd life... And we're supposed to fucking HATE Hooty for these things. Remember the only person, in the ENTIRE SERIES to actually befriend Hooty instead of treating him at best as a convenience is Liltih... At the start of her becoming a joke. The only person who shows him real, genuine compassion... Also becomes 'The Cool Aunt' who hyper fixates on niche architecture and has her trauma of working the EC mocked as just being really bad at her job.

It is, genuinely, kind of gross to me. I've actually talked about this before that the show is so hyperfocused on a very specific, very small set of people for who it approves of, which is essentially whoever fits into Luz correctly, that anyone who felt excluded by the show is extremely valid. And yes, Luz has a montage at the start of silly, over the top and extreme behavior... That doesn't continue. At all. The one time she subjects someone to an Azura rant is to torture Eda enough to go to the Convention and that's only because they were already on the subject because King was interested. She quotes Azura but quickly and doesn't lose the thread. She might say a cute word like 'Snorses' but not even enough to make a break in the conversation.

She is convenient. Gus is only interested in human stuff when it's convenient. Willow will put aside her interest in plants when it's inconvenient. Amity just stops giving a shit about being an intellectual AT ALL post her getting a crush. Hunter wears a wolf t-shirt and gets into Cosmic Frontier enough to cosplay it for Halloween... But only Halloween. These are people who are extremely socially acceptable in every way.

Which... explains why nerds love them actually. See, I think Big Bang Theory does deserve criticism, it is by no means perfect and I would be VERY interested in hearing what the Jewish community thinks of Howard who is easily the most problematic character in the show but not all of the criticism is genuine. I think a lot of it comes down to the fact that we're used to a side, gag character representing the kind worst parts of us... But we're not used to being the focus. We can laugh at all the broke bitches who show up in Sitcoms or the jock failures who are meatheads, etc. like that... But laugh at ourselves? Why would we do that? Why would we allow that? We're better than what this show depicts, even if we're not.

It is inconvenient to the narrative we wish to tell ourselves that we are still the outcasts. That are we not part of the dominant culture and so it is unfair to mock our interests and lifestyle. But like... Marvel movies have been the biggest blockbusters for well over a decade and no one bats a fucking at that. D&D is quickly becoming a household name due to its ever expanding influence. We are not the outcasts anymore. Being into a weird cartoon is not some shocking thing like it was 12 years ago when Bronies first made people aware that this subculture of nerds existed. Times are changing but we still wish to see ourselves as only the victims, even as more and more our spaces show that they are just as evil, corrupt, manipulative and cruel as any athletic superstar or pretty boy actor's club.

A lot of these nerds want to believe they are Luz. Never wrong, never giving anyone a reason to dislike them, and always just passionate about the things they like, never annoying. And you know who those people would mock? Who those people HAVE mocked?

Hooty. Because he's more real. He's the demon they wish they didn't have to face in the mirror. See you next tale.

======+++++======

I really do want to re-emphasize this: FUCK HOWARD. Big Bang is NOT good for the jewish community and I don't think if I watched it nowadays I would be able to tolerate his depiction AT ALL. Also, Raj is also probably all sorts of rough too. I'm ONLY defending the nerd portrayal part of Big Bang.

I have a public Discord for any and all who want to join!

I also have an Amazon page for all of my original works in various forms of character focused romances from cute, teenage romance to erotica series of my past. I have an Ao3 for my fanfiction projects as well if that catches your fancy instead. If you want to hang out with me, I stream from time to time and love to chat with chat.

A Twitter you can follow too

And a Kofi if you like what I do and want to help out with the fact that disability doesn’t pay much.

[aragornsrockcollection]

Look, I love Maglor.

Maglor makes me feel things.

I am firmly in the camp that Maglor is the Most Gentle Feanorian, he hates violence, he sees the wrong in all they do, he has an immense amount of empathy.

And don’t you see… this does not make him The Best Feanorian, morally superior to his brothers, pure and good.

This interpretation… kinda makes him the WORST of his brothers?

Maedhros stands aside when the ships burn. He believes abandoning their cousins and people is wrong and takes a stand no matter how futile. Maglor doesn’t. Maglor burns the ships.

We don’t know that Maglor thought that was wrong, we don’t get his perspective in that part of the story. But once we start getting his perspective we get him arguing against the final acts of murder that would retrieve the Silmarils, with full knowledge that it is a bad thing to do… and then doing it anyways. I think Maglor knew burning the ships was wrong.

If you interpret Maglor this way… he doesn’t come out looking good. At least Curufin and Celegorm had conviction that attacking Doriath was right. Going along with it knowing it’s wrong is WORSE. It’s FUCKED UP.

Maglor, in many ways, is a coward. Not when facing the enemy, but when facing his brothers, or his father. He may have had the most of Nerdanel in him of his brothers, but he didn’t get her spine, her ability to say “no this is wrong” to someone she loves, and step away. I even think Maglor’s “no this is wrong” was internal until the very end, when he only had his closest brother left.

There is a period where Maglor is in charge, after Maedhros’s capture. And a lot of people headcanon Maglor having a lot of guilt over his inaction in this time. I agree he has a lot of guilt over it (I think guilt and conflicted emotions drive almost everything Maglor does) but I also think this is the BRAVEST AND MOST CORRECT MAGLOR ACTS IN THE ENTIRE FIRST AGE. The Noldor should absolutely just be seeking to survive at this point, trying to rescue Maedhros would get them all killed. Inaction is the correct call here, despite pressure to do otherwise.

And also, I can’t remember if I made this up, but I have a memory of Curufin and Celegorm both clamoring for Maglor to give up the throne in favor of Celegorm, who is absolutely a more decisive leader in line with what their father would have wanted. Fending this off would be the only recorded time when Maglor stood firm against his brothers.

Some people portray Maglor taking in Elrond and Elros as an act of defiance against Maedhros, to which I say… why? Maedhros frantically searched for Elured and Elurin to save them, he clearly was very against the murder of children, and Maglor has exactly zero instances of putting his foot down against Maedhros.

Tl.dr. Maglor having the most developed moral compass of the feanorians, far from making him a perfect angel, actually mixes with his actions and inactions to make him INCREDIBLY flawed in a completely unflattering way, and I think that’s fascinating.

[antlered-angel]

Since yall keep WILDLY misinterpreting my Murder Drones Post

My problem isn’t that the female characters are nuanced, flawed, and complex. Also i am viewing this from a writing viewpoint and not a character analysis viewpoint, since i’m a writer. That means i will be looking at how the characters are portrayed and played out vs how their arcs go and how they change over time.

My problem is that in terms of concept and personality, they’re all nearly identical to each other which is a massive shame. All the female characters are snarky, sassy, and mean. I don’t care if they all have a reason to be, at a certain point it becomes redundant. this is especially obvious compared to the two guy characters we have. Khan and N do have some things in common, but are very different in terms of personality and concept. Both have guilt over their actions in the past, yet they go about it in different ways. N has a hard time asserting himself and tries to make everyone happy, while Khan does his best to carry out his wife’s last wishes while taking care of his daughter despite the fact that he can be a massive coward. Yet the girls all respond to very different events in nearly identical ways. Uzi, J, V, and Doll respond with the same hostility and snark. J, Adult Tessa/Cyn and Doll all become manipulative and hide their true intentions. They all have identical flaws too, that being impulsiveness, anger issues, trust issues, etc. It’s very hard to get interested in characters when they all act the same and thus have similar arcs. Also for those of y’all who brought up Lizzy, sorry i forgot about her, but she acts like Uzi if Uzi didn’t have the solver. Another snarky sassy female character. TBH this really sucks because outside of the copy paste personalities, these characters are really good. Doll was my favorite villain and i found Uzi to be a fun protagonist with an interesting concept. The reveal of Cyn using Tessa’s skin made my. jaw drop. Unfortunately it’s hard to ignore how samey all the female characters are vs the male characters. It’s such a jarring contrast. While it’s okay for a lot of characters to have some things in common (once again, N and Khan) having most of your characters, especially your female characters, exhibit the exact same personality and flaws leads to them bleeding together rather than standing out in a story. lowkey kinda sexist that it’s just the female characters that this happens to lol

[scope-dogg]

What mecha shows did you enjoy but would not recommend to people (flawed personal favourites, shows with high entry barrier, etc.)?

Several come to mind.

Blue SPT Layzner: TV run got shitcanned prematurely and has probably the mast slapdash ending of any mecha show save maybe the TV run of Ideon. OVA adaptation opens with rushed compilation of first half of TV series that's dull to watch and not especially coherent on its own before it gets to the altered and much improved ending. Feels like there's no right way to watch it, you have to do both and piece it together in your head. Definitely one to check out after you've seen Takahashi's better work like Votoms and Dougram, though it's infuriating because the series has banger music and mecha design, and the hypothetical ideal version of the plot that you don't have to basically kitbash together in your head is really good.

Dancouga: Production values are amazing in first episodes and then turn to complete dogshit shortly thereafter, like they literally spent their whole budget up front and then had to pay their animators in loose change and leftover fast food. Very strange pacing. However I've always really liked the main protagonist Shinobu Fujiwara whose voice actor honestly carries the show on his back, and I've had a soft spot for Dancouga the mecha itself for a long time - but it doesn't actually show up until half way in. Yet somehow I can't deny the charm of the show despite how slapdash it is thanks to its interesting approach to the super robot formula, and it leads into Requiem for Victims which is the true ending for the TV plot and a followup called God Bless Dancouga, both of which are banger OVAs (and then another kinda shitty one after that but who cares.) Unfortunately they all make no sense without watching the TV run. It's a franchise for hardcore mecha fans only, though IIRC the 2000s sequel Dancouga Nova is basically disconnected and stands on its own, for better or worse. I've yet to watch it.

Tryder G7: 80s super robot show that's kind of like a part slice-of-life anime, honestly ahead of its time in a lot of ways. Would be my go-to recommendation for 80s super robot shows if there was a decent fansub. The one that exists is a Russian translation of the official Italian subs that then got translated into English and it's as disastrous as you might expect. Not only is it incoherent but even as a non-Japanese speaker I can tell it's often inaccurate. Frustrating because I can tell it's a good show that deserves a proper English sub for fans.

Cross Ange: Notorious show by the Gundam Seed creators. The concept and lore of this show is batshit insane, the mecha are cool, the main character turns out to be interesting and likable despite very negative first impressions, however there's no denying that it's buried under a thick vaneer of shallow coombait and it runs itself off the rails with zany plot at points. Honestly better than its reputation suggests but hard to recommend without looking like a pervert.

Shinkon Gattai Godannar: Basically the same thing, coombait super robot series, fun action, not a bad story. At the same time if you've ever seen a gif of absurd breast physics in anime from the 2000s there's a decent chance it's from Godannar. Good show at the end of the day, better than it has a right to be, artstyle is gonna be a big turnoff for many people and I don't necessarily blame them.

Gundam Build Divers Re:Rise: Probably the weirdest of the build series, also IMO the best. Downside: you have to suffer through the profoundly mediocre original Build Divers to get the most out of it and I'm not sure that price is worth it.

Probably more that I could add. Honourable mention has to go Gundam Seed Stargazer because you have to suffer through Gundam Seed Destiny to get to it, but I hear that the new Gundam Seed movie that's also set after Destiny is good so perhaps the cost-to-benefit ratio of suffering through Destiny has changed.

[millydrawsthis]

What are the personalities of each of the fallen humans? Also, what did they look like before they died?

I am SO glad you asked!! Augh talking about ALL of them is some of most craziest brain dumps and yet I wanna keep it sort of short. 

The human souls I draw here are from my AU AnotherTale. Where our protagonist, Freed, their soul is combined with a monster soul and an artificial human soul—which is mixed with the souls of the previous fallen down children. 

They’re all different, and all complex in their own ways. It all determined on how different people viewed them when they controlled Freed.

Take Kindness for example..

Kindness was—is an 12-year boy who makes it known that he is 12 in a half, his birthday was soon. He was willingly kind to others, regardless of their actions or attitudes. He was known for it throughout the places he visited in the underground. He would say on the surface too, but he doesn’t really remember what they said about him above. He just hopes it was kind.

He had generosity, its evident in both grand gestures and small, everyday acts. From making sure he kept the light on because you’re scared of the dark, or sacrificing his life for the sake of all monsters. His hopefulness is another defining trait; he faced challenges with an optimistic outlook, always believing in the possibility of better outcomes and brighter days.

However, everyone has flaws. Kindness is also a people pleaser, frequently putting the needs and desires of others before his own. His desire to be liked and accepted sometimes lead him to neglect his own preferences and needs, making it difficult for him to assert himself or make independent decisions. His indecisiveness is a reflection of this tendency, as he often struggled to make choices, fearing disapproval or conflict. He could never decide if someone was yelling at him to do something else. But hey, at least he likes to cook.

He’s loved by most people when he’s in control, surely a favorite among most. Because you know,

He’s kind.

kinda reminds me of Dream Sans

But there are favorites, and least favorites— like Justice—

Justice is a 15 year old who always strives to right the wrongs he saw around him. He’s disciplined, Punctual— always making meeting him worth both of y’all’s time. He works really hard all the time—at least that’s what he screams about—sometimes he still tries to bring justice for his friends in his AU, but he isn’t as determined on that mission as he once was. There’s no point for something like that if you’re dead.

However he has a fierce temper. Injustice ignites a fiery rage within him that he sometimes struggles to control. Not like he tries to, he says it fuels his righteousness. His trust issues are a big problem when trying to have relationships with others—not that he really wants friends anyway but betrayals, both real and perceived, left him wary of others' intentions, and it took time for him to let people close.

Justice could be judgmental, quick to form strong opinions about people's actions and motives. This trait sometimes alienated those who did not live up to his high standards. Despite his moral convictions, he’s not immune to hypocrisy. He’s the biggest hypocrite you’ll ever meet, and thats no exaggeration. He’ll look you in the eye and spit on you if you dare do something he doesn’t deem good, and then turn around and do the same thing. But he believes it’s for a better reason than yours. 

He’s a simple kid, who doesn’t know what the fuck he’s talking about most of the time.

He has a best friend—or well his best friend says he’s his best friend—but no one thinks that’s true.

Bravery is 13-year-old boy who stood out in every situation, whether mundane or terrifying. From climbing the tallest trees to standing up to monsters who stood in his way. And unlike his righteous friend, Bravery’s spirit was matched by a non-judgmental heart; he welcomed everyone with open arms, never quick to criticize or cast aspersions. He was confident, and always sure of himself—he never second guessed the decisions he made. Unless he really had time to thing about it. He’s a more in the moment kind of guy.

Yet, beneath his “heroic and extraordinary” exterior, he was a sore loser, taking defeats to heart and sometimes reacting poorly when things didn't go his way. This sensitivity extended to almost every aspect of his life; he took everything personally, even minor slights or criticisms. He wasn’t good doing team sports with. 

His pride was another prominent aspect of his personality. Bravery had a deep sense of self-worth and confidence—though it was hard to believe because of how much he’d lie to seem interesting— but this sometimes tipped into arrogance, making it hard for him to admit mistakes or accept help. Because who needs help if you’re better than everyone else? 

A hero to all, or to all that actually really cared about her. This is one of my personal favorite Souls, mostly because I just think she’s cool—

Integrity is a 12-year-old girl who was unwavering in her commitment to her morals, always striving to do what she believed was right, regardless of the circumstances.

Generosity was a cornerstone of her character. She had a remarkable ability to give selflessly, whether through sharing her belongings or offering her time and attention to those in need. 

Her caring nature extended beyond mere acts of kindness; she had a genuine empathy for others, always ready to lend a hand or a listening ear. Everyone who’s ever met her said she was a great listener, and gave great advice—aggressively sure—but it was always still helpful.

Her energetic spirit was complemented by an unwavering loyalty. She stood by her friends and family with a fierce dedication, always putting their needs and well-being above her own.

Yet, integrity was not without her flaws. Her stubbornness often led her to cling firmly to her own opinions, even in the face of overwhelming evidence or advice to the contrary. This sometimes caused tension with those around her, as she was unwilling to compromise or reconsider her stance.

She would never admit she’s wrong, not even if she had to die for it. 

This pride, combined with her impulsive nature, led her to act on whims without fully considering the consequences. Her decisions were often driven by immediate emotions rather than careful thought. She once scoffed at the “think before you act” saying. 

Ooh, here comes the two everyone is waiting for. (Or mostly just the two I’m excited to talk about) 

Let’s start with a know it all— as everyone on the surface who knew him would say. 

Perseverance is a 14-year-old boy who—no matter the challenge—possessed an unyielding determination to keep moving forward. 

His intelligence was immediately apparent, manifesting not just in his academic work on the surface, but also in his keen understanding of the world. He knows a lot about things that you think he shouldn’t, but he does anyway, and he enjoys telling you how much he does know. 

Hes a naturally passive boy, perseverance prefers to observe rather than to participate actively. He has a calm demeanor, often found quietly watching the world go by, absorbing and reflecting on what he saw, writing it down in his little notebook. It gave him a unique perspective on life, and a hint of existential dread.

But it never mattered how smart perseverance was, how smart he is now, because despite his perseverance, he was often plagued by cowardice. He struggled with fear in many situations, avoiding confrontation and shying away from anything that seemed too risky or challenging. Most thinks it’s how he survived for that long in the underground.

Apathy also marked his character. He often seemed detached, indifferent to the emotions and needs of others. This lack of empathy made it difficult for him to form deep connections, as he rarely showed concern for those around him. In fact, sometimes he says things to get a rise out of others—he writes the reactions down if it’s interesting enough. 

His intelligence, while a gift, also led to a degree of arrogance. Perseverance had a tendency to be a know-it-all, frequently asserting his opinions and dismissing those of others. He’ll tell you everything he thinks he knows about you, make it bold and hurtful. This made him seem very unapproachable and condescending, further isolating him from his peers.

He’s ONE of least favorite ones, both among the other Souls and people in the multiverse, but hey, at least he beats—

Patience, 14-year-old girl who had an innate ability to recognize the right moment for every action, never rushing and always thinking clearly, even in the most stressful situations. Always waiting for the perfect opportunity.

Like her “friend” integrity, She’s a great listener, offering a sympathetic ear and gentle advice to friends and family. Of course, for a different reason.

She was often seen as a coward, avoiding confrontations and shying away from situations that required boldness. Her sensitivity made her prone to tears, earning her the label of a crybaby. Small things could upset her deeply, and her emotions were always close to the surface. She enjoys the pity.

Despite this, she harbors a vengeful side. If wronged, Patience found it difficult to forgive and forget, holding onto grudges with surprising and most of the time extremely violent tenacity for someone so young and gentle in other aspects.

But above all this, she is always bored. It’s like if you put a mint in a coke bottle, but the mint was just curiosity. Apart from Justice, patience is one of the most aggressive soul in AnotherTale. But the difference between the two is that she waits. She was born waiting after all. She waits until that cause for curiosity comes to her itself. She likes it the most when it’s a someone, it’s more interesting that way.  Though most people don’t catch onto her Malicious tendencies until it’s too late. She’s just so kind.

Anddd for their past selves. They’re just the same as what they looked before they died, except with legs, and pupils. No one cared about these children enough, that’s why no one knows their actual names. No one bothers to ask. 

A drawin I made like many months before

SORRY if any of this gets confusing, I have a weird way of writing like I’m in some gothic poetry novel or some shit. Idk! If you have any more questions I’d be overjoyed to share!

[kyouka-supremacy]

so, kyotag, your super honest opinion about bsd characters please (aka, who is your fave and who is your least fave. i promise, i am not trying to get you 'cancelled', i am just curious!) 🎤

Ever since I've gotten this ask I've been trembling, I don't think I can ever give bsd honest opinions for the sake of my own future mental sanity LMAO. The upside is, I can talk plenty of the characters I like!!

My favourite character is Kenji! For real, ahah. I'm just always drawn to characters that are just... Good. little guys only trying to do their best and be kind. I suppose there's also a factor of “that's who I want to be” that makes me like them in particular. I don't like the direction they went for Kenji's character in chapter 100.5, but really? I wasn't particularly let down by it either, like it's so fundamentally coherent with the worldview bsd expresses, if anything it was chapter 13 that was out of the scheme. I'm a professional canon ignorer at this point and I'll keep doing just that ahah.

↑ Saw this scene for the first time in the anime, went “Slay! Communist king!”, and he's been my favourite ever since lol.

Although, if we count in Beast, then my favourite character overall must be Beast Atsushi. I mean, have you seen him... Most fucked up guy ever. He went through unimaginable trauma and he still kept being so soft at his core. He just wants to live but everyone is making it so hard for him. He cares for Kyouka so much and he cares for Dazai so much and (to me) he cares for Akutagawa so much like little traumatized boy how did you manage to save all that love in you despite the Horrors. I can't put in words how much I love him but really he's the only character I can say I really sympathize with, like, I want good things to happen to him. I want him to spend the rest of his life coddled and adored.

I love all the female characters <3 I ADORE Kyouka, I think among the other female characters she's the most multilayered and complex character with a structured and compelling story arc. I think she's seriously nice, I really love this stark contrast between her sharp, cynical side and her side that is so sweet and kind and so utterly 14 y/o, and I love how these two sides aren't really in conflict but just come to be together and make her so authentically Kyouka. She's so dear to me. Also, she's the only female character who can compete with the s.kk / ss.kk four for the role of main character, so like, I'm rooting for her ahah.

I adore Yosano for self-explanatory reasons lmao. The chapters of her backstory may not be my absolute favourites for a mere matter of personal taste but I definitely think they make for the best written chapters in the whole manga. I really like how sensitive she is of others' suffering, I think she's amazing– I think her compassion is truly amazing. I want to read more stories of unapologetically compassionate characters. I also generally really really love “older sister” kind of characters!!

I love Kouyou with all I've got. I'm sorry, I genuinely think her story was this good on mistake, but still. I think her backstory makes her genuinely intriguing, I think she's extremely cool and powerful and a joy to see in action, I think toxic mother / daughter relationships are super fun to explore, I think she deserves so much more spotlight and should be back as soon as possible.

I love Mitchell lmao. Like I know it may not look like it but I truly think about her 24/7. I just love women that are kinda silly and over the top. She's got like four lines and every single one is a gem and I adore all of them. She's got those big evident flaws and they make her so human and likeable!!! She's my best friend. Not to mention how loyal she is and how much she cares about her family, I really like those traits of her. Oh, and gowns! I love love love gowns.

Okay but seriously I love all female characters. I didn't like Lucy in particular at the start but she's really grown on me and now I adore her with everything. Wells is spectacular and I need her back as soon as possible. Every woman I didn't mention, from Higuchi to Egawa, believe me I love with all my heart.

I went off a tangent I'm so sorry </3 I know you asked for one character, but how can I not mention the others??? It's just been so long for me in the fandom now and I just can't but grow attached. And I've got so much untapped love for women I never get to talk about on my silly blog that focuses on two men. Following up the list, would be Akutagawa. And I don't want to talk about him because I suppose there's no need to after having made one trillion posts about him but also can I just say? I like him for the same exact reasons I like Kenji. She's just a guy trying to be good. The difference is that he sucks so bad at it, and it makes him SO fun to explore as a character. I really have so much fun playing with him. Then would be Tachihara, Jouno...

... ........................ For the characters I like least, I suppose, R/anpo. I'm so sorry peoples. In R/anpo's case, it's just... Why do you have to be so mean and disrespectful all the time. Seriously, dude. Why is he always treating others as less than he is. I'm sorry, I really am, but I just can't help but find it displeasant? Like it takes zero energy to treat other people with common human decency, c'mon dude. At least Akutagawa is trying to do better, but everyone treats R/anpo like he's entitled to be a jerk? Idk man.

K/unikida. In his case, I Do Get why he's the way that he is (and genuinely can relate to him to an extent), it's just... For the way I am, I consider to try and forcibly impose your own ideals on other people to be about the most insulting thing you can do. And he does that a lot, with Atsushi and Dazai and everyone else. He also has this whole forced lack of empathy thing going on like... I get why he does that, and I get what he went through that made him like he is, but that doesn't change the fact you're kinda being a dick to everyone all the time dude. Please get some therapy.

That doesn't mean there aren't moments when I've genuinely liked them both and found them seriously cool!!!! I still think K/unikida is an interesting character and I genuinely get why people like him. I love the helicopter scene, I remember when I was reading the manga for the first time, when he said “no one ruins my schedule”, I was like, whaa, I was completely in awe. For R/anpo too, the Untold Origins arc from what I could see from the anime was really nice, and I also highly enjoy that one scene of his in chapter 81, the “To tell the truth, I had absolutely no assurance they'd believe me”.

Thank you for the ask Nyusa!! I hope you could find this at least a little bit interesting (?). If anything, now you know a little more about me, ahah. Also not talking about Dazai this time because really I can't be here the whole day.

[problemswithbooks]

ngl my only praise for bnha was kinda the endeavour arc, but uh,,, yeah wtf was that chapter. "endeavour was right all along, he shouldve kept pushing the child!!" blegh

Yeah, I agree.

I really don't like the added ice Quirk from any angle. Sure, you can argue it gives more of an explanation on how Touya will inevitably survive, but it's weak at best. Ice doesn't heal burns and no amount of cooling would fix someone whose been burned to the bone all over their body. Ice or not he should be dead--I would expect Shoto to die if he ever looked the same way, even though he has ice. If the solution is going to be so nonsensical and handwavey anyway, and it undermines the themes and characters so much, might as well just drop it.

Touya's ice adds nothing and only negatively effects the themes and characters.

It's framed in a way where it can be seen as rubbing salt in Enji's wounds and showing how bad a father he was because Touya was perfect the entire time, but that only implies that Enji should have kept training Touya despite the physical pain it caused him. It's just weird because the story is shitting on Enji for one of the few things he did right. The issue never should have been that he stopped training Touya--it should be that he didn't replace that one on one time with some other safe alternative. Enji should have spent quality time with Touya regardless of Quirk, but he didn't. Yet, now it implies that the training would have paid off if Enji had just stuck with it.

This chapter also sort of props up the Quirk marriage he had with Rei. Her family was apparently full of inbred racists who would have sold her off to anyone with a big enough paycheck. It also gives more support to the idea that Rei was 100% on board with the Quirk marriage because that was what her family had been practicing for years anyways. On top of that the marriage worked first try with Touya. Touya's existence is no longer showing that trying for a perfect Quirk had detrimental consequences all on it's own, but instead that Enji giving up on Touya was the only reason he didn't achieve perfectness.

It also guts any character development Touya could have. He's now right, he was always the son Enji wanted. His constant suicidal and self harming actions get him exactly what he always wanted. He's literally being rewarded for being suicidal--which is a huge problem. He no longer has to come to love himself outside of his Quirk, see that he should always have been cared for no matter how useful he was to his father's ambitions.

It really does leave a very bad taste in my mouth with all the implications and twisting of the themes. I doubt any of it was intentional, but the execution is very flawed and I highly doubt these issues can be fixed going forward. It's just makes me really sad because Enji's arc was the one I was most interested in because it was actually showed how hard change is and was about an adult character rather then a plucky teenager. Yet, it's getting to the point I kind of think Hori might have had a better story if he'd left Enji a one dimensional asshole and killed him off given how he's written this side-plot.

[elenajohansenreads]

Books I Read in 2023

#90 - Storm Front, by Jim Butcher

Rating: 2/5 stars

I have friends who love this series. On their recommendation, I read this not all that long after it came out, and I did not enjoy it much; my strongest memories were not of the plot, but the rampant sexism.

But these friends of mine, to this day, insist that "yeah the first few books are kinda bad, but the sexism gets toned down a lot pretty quickly." And one in particular pointed out that the audiobooks are read by James Marsters, whom I am a fan of, and that he does a great job.

That is absolutely true. His performance made an otherwise distasteful book palatable.

So, with two decades of reading and life experience under my belt since the first time I read this, I have some new thoughts.

1) It's still not a particularly good book. Yes, it's a flagship series in the paranormal/urban fantasy genre and I can't be mad at it for not being as good as later works as the genre developed. I'm not. But the plot is pretty damn close to a series of lucky coincidences that happen to go Harry Dresden's way. The pacing is often odd and abrupt--Butcher just looooves to try to write the literary equivalent of movie smash-cuts just for the shock value. And it felt silly to spend so much time on Harry's possible execution by the White Council when, even if I weren't reading this 23 years after its publication and knowing there are fifteen more books in the series, it's obvious the main character wasn't going to die because of his backstory. I mean, he clearly also wasn't going to die during the action-filled climax either, but that at least had the "but how does he survive?" stakes to keep it a little interesting. The Doom of Damocles was just dull because it never felt like a real threat.

2) I can be a little more tolerant of the sexism because two things are more clear to me now: one, that this is just film noir with a wizard at the helm, and film noir has a lot of things going for it but historically is incredibly sexist, so it's understandable the sexism came along for the ride here. And two, Harry as a character may be pretty misogynistic at times, but the overall narrative isn't necessarily as awful to women as I thought the first time around. However, this tolerance is with the promise that the later books will do better than this, so if I don't feel that turns out to be true as the series progresses, I will set fire to all these books with my mind.

3) Despite its many flaws, it's kind of a fun romp of a mystery/detective novel anyway, and there's a lot about the world-building I actually like and look forward to seeing get more development in the future.

If people whose opinions I trust had not promised me this would be worth my time in the long run, I would still give up now based on the quality of this first book. But I do trust them, so I'll keep going for a few more books at least.

[angstandhappiness]

DUDE, THIS SMACKS

@furornocturna THANK YOU @allforafro: Thx 😭

@hekcle #actually thank you for the comment conversation YXDYDH#I've been trying to learn about jttw and even read it but i struggle to read novels so its been kinda ass#i still am gonna try and read it btw but now i have more lil informations in my brains rn

@checkeredbat #you are so real for this#like honestly I’m not going to take any wukong slander until we get his side of the story#because we have next to nothing from his point of view#so far the least unbiased thing we’ve seen are the scroll memories#and even then we don’t have any insight into their personal thoughts and feelings#everything else we know about the past comes from biased sources#for example azure making it look like wukong gladly accepted the fillet when it was initially forced upon him#or I guess sound like but you get my point#I’m really hoping in season five we’ll finally get wukongs point of view on everything#because lord knows we need it

@nightmarebunnyking Thank you (from a swk stan) the bisa in this fandom is unbelievable

@imbeccablee #yeah exactly#like someone can make mistakes and still be a good person#thats literally the point of the journey; bettering yourself

@seaweedoverlord #i agree sm#the amount of wukong dissing i saw after specials on twitter is insane#it's not really a joke people really do like macaque more jn this fandom#and i get wanting to make ur fave go through the absolute WORST to excuse their actions#but like#it doesnt really excuse it anyway djedjej#though i think it's also cuz its just fun when ur fav character is so misunderstood#*vaguely gestures towards wukong* mine is a bit too literaly#anyway what makes me love their relationship is that they both are at fault#it just makes it more realistic cuz thats how irl is. people make bad mistakes and get better ykno#to think a friccin lego show with 10 fuckin mins can pull this#anyway i love this show and i love wukong <3#OP is so right. thank god some people are doing god's work with talks like thede cuz i am do bad wjth words

@ritz-writes #yes yes yes yes#yeah he fucked up#but he also learned#mac fucked up#and he is now learning#they are both at fault#but neither should be punished for old actions#when they r both showing they want to change#esp wukong#he literally said 'making regrettable life choices'#he doesnt like the things he did#and hes trying to be different

@lagt-duck #kissing op platonically#you get it!!!#he is so flawed thry are both awful to each othe#just because you like one is not an excuse to ruin the other#man i love this stupid monkey

@generouskittentidalwave FINALLY SOMEONE SAID IT As someone who has done research on JTTW I can tell you Wukong was HELLA justified in killing Macaque, actually him doing so was a goal of the story. After Wukong had an argument with the monk which caused the two to separate, Wukong was upset and at his lowest point during that time *If typos mess with his name one more time I swear But Macaque after that shapeshifted into Wukong and attacked his friends and stole from them, invaded his home and made the monkeys think he is their king so he stole his army, and made everyone think Wukong was doing these bad things when he wasn't. Wukong found out and fought against him down to the underworld and up to the heavens while no one could tell who was who despite their efforts. They ended up at Thunderclap mountain where the Buddha was and got his help. Buddha then revealed that it was the six earred Macaque and Wukong, out of anger, killed him. The point for killing him was to show that Wukong finally purged himself from his negativites for good, as Macaque represents all of Wukong's negativites. Everything that Wukong could be but shouldn't be, and Wukong killing him was him beating his darkside, finally accepting the path of self betterment. That is their duality, their allegory. The darkness to the light, the darkness being destroyed so the light can fully shine through. The sun to the moon and the moon to the sun. Wukong got better and Macaque didn't, and that was the point. Also the things Wukong did before he got trapped in the mountain weren't evil or bad like people think they are. Honestly his mistakes were really silly mistakes that posed no threat to others other than being an annoyance.

@teddy-bear-queen @generouskittentidalwave yeah exactly! (So excited to read that part of the story in full omg.) Obviously we don’t know the events leading up to his death in LMK, so I’m super curious about it there, too! Nothing much to add, just that I agree :D

@generouskittentidalwave @teddy-bear-queen I don't think they'll change it seeing as they seem to respect the original work very well and keeping it canon to the story, but I feel like they might add onto it more and explain things better. But yeah Wukong really was not a bad guy, he never was, he was just a wild monkey given too much power and needed to learn how to control it to actually help others.

@teddy-bear-queen @generouskittentidalwave oops I replied too early! But I do disagree when you say his actions “posed no threat”. Possibly in LMK, but in JTTW he straight-up killed people (sometimes quite brutally) just because they annoyed him. I recall him killing the death collectors, and the translation I saw described it as “mince meat”. The issue with JTTW is that it’s written by hundreds of people, so getting a grasp on these characters can be a little difficult! But it’s fun to try

@generouskittentidalwave He did kill a lot of people on their journey but I see no one fault him for that and I don't either because he is literally a wild monkey. He has the dog eat dog world of nature mindset that he grew up with and if something provokes or upsets a wild monkey most of the time they are very quick to attack. That's how monkeys are and why he needed to learn and grow to understand things and be better.

@teddy-bear-queen @generouskittentidalwave that’s a really good point! I didn’t think of it that way :D

@generouskittentidalwave @teddy-bear-queen It's okay I can't tell who's typing so I sorry if I post too early as well XD That's a good point and a very huge reason why I said before he got trapped in the mountain and not after. After the bro was a literal menace, his first instinct was to kill. But as I described before you can't really put those morals on a creature who was raised as a wild monkey, they don't have those thoughts and mindsets. People forget that because they place these moral standards on someone they see as human because he simply acts like one even though he isn't. He is a monkey that learned human traits, and was sent on the journey so he can learn more about human moral standards and put them into proper actions, to learn how to use his powers responsibly instead of like the wild animal he was raised to be. After all, animals want more and more, they strive to get stronger and stronger. That's how they learn to survive and was the mindset he lived off of.

@teddy-bear-queen @generouskittentidalwave thanks! <3 Also, I definitely see that. But I still think it’s fair to say Wukongs actions were selfish, impulsive and harmful. Sure he was an annoyance, but he was also a threat. Unnecessarily so in some cases. Him being a monkey doesn’t really excuse that because he did insert himself into the human world. HOWEVER! It certainly does explain it! And it was a really cool take I hadn’t really thought of before

@generouskittentidalwave @teddy-bear-queen Oh no I'm not denying that is actions weren't good, I mean if a tiger mauled a person that wouldn't be seen as being a good action regardless of if they are an animal or not XD. However, it's important to keep in mind that Wukong unknowingly inserted himself into the human world out of curiosity. He wasn't expecting that the human world would be so different to that of a life with natural laws, but he stayed because he found it fun.

@teddy-bear-queen @generouskittentidalwave yeah of course! :D Sorry i didn’t mean to come off as accusatory LMAO I tend to just hook onto one point and run with it sometimes!

@generouskittentidalwave What made it worse was that Wukong also was never taught the differences between the right and wrong of people, he was only given power, more and more power, which eventually led to him going out of control. They knew that and sent him on a journey to actually teach him how to be better instead of teaching him powerful abilities, but he was still in that mindset on the journey hence why he would always attack people on instinct. He even gave the monk the head of one of the thieves he killed the same way that a cat would give you a mouse, just- "look at me, I did good! :D" even though the monk definitely did not see it that way XD. Wukong never killed to be mean or ruthless or evil, he killed because he did not know any better, and needed to be taught to be better. That was the point of the journey. It was the people who taught him and gave him all these things that caused him to go out of control because he was never taught anything else, and sending him on a journey to learn to be better was their way of making this mistake right and teaching Wukong not to make any further mistakes.

@teddy-bear-queen @generouskittentidalwave omg omg omg YES to all of this I thought that exact thing when I was watching OSP’s JTTW summary series LMAO. Really showed how animalistic he was! This book/series is so cool,, I wish I could add more but my poor brain is just like “tehe wukong is so silly look at him go” Wukong, threatening to “test” his new weapon on the Dragon of the East: (I think it was east, adhd brain lmao) I’m honestly shocked the patriarchy didn’t teach him anything about. You know. Morals…? He just saw this monkey guy and decided “yep, I can just teach this guy the most insane abilities ever”

@generouskittentidalwave And he did become better after learning and understanding the world and the people around him, so much so that the Buddha made Wukong a Buddha himself, with him becoming the victorious fighting Buddha. He accomplished and did so much and became the good person that he could be because of everyone's help and patience and most importantly himself. Meanwhile Macaque didn't do sh^t bro spent all his time plotting for revenge and died for it and that was just about it so XDD @teddy-bear-queen And your right it was East XD ALSO YEAH I WAS LIKE- SHOULDN'T YOU TEACH HIM THAT FIRST???? Morals are, you know, VERY IMPORTANT

@teddy-bear-queen @generouskittentidalwave CAN I JUST SAY I FIND IT SOFUNNY HOW PPL ARE LIKE. Macaque is so edgy and mysterious…. But the guy literally passive-aggressively trauma dumped to MK on his second appearance LMAO

@generouskittentidalwave @teddy-bear-queen "Awh Macaque is so misunderstood he wants to see Mk improve and has helped him so much in a better way than Wukong did!" MF HE MANIPULATED, TRAUMATIZED HIM, AND TRIED TO KILL HIM MULTIPLE TIMES Like bro are we watching the same show here? Where are people getting this from? LMAOO ALSO HE HASN'T ONCE APOLOGIZED FOR IT. Wukong apologizes to Mk and owns up to the fact that his past mistakes affected Mk and even said he knows nothing could make up for it MEANWHILE MACAQUE DIDN'T SAY SHIT, LIKE BRO COME ON PEOPLE *On They got me so upset they affected my own spelling XD

@birbs-n-cats Also, wukong can definitely subdued ppl w/o killing them but chose not to bc he doesn’t want to show mercy to them. Hes knows he very strong and can take it but disregard that fact can be the same for ordinary human. Bc while patriarch puti was his teachers, swk left and went on to be a warlord.

@angstandhappiness @teddy-bear-queen hey op I think you meant to use the pic of Wukong stuck in the mountain, not the one where MK and Macaque found him in the memory scroll

@teddy-bear-queen @angstandhappiness oh no that was in reference to him being so defeated that he had no reason to lie when he says “I just wanted to protect the people I cared about, but I guess I lost sight of why I was doing any of it” (or smth like that, don’t remember the exact quote)

Bro I have to say this I swear-

I see people trying everything to make it seem like Wukong is a lot worse then he is. I understand you like Macaque, I do too! But the entire point of their relationship is that they’re both in the wrong. The difference is, Wukong got, well, character development. It just feels super annoying to discredit Wukongs hard work in JTTW because of things he did prior.

I’m not saying Wukong is some saint, or an amazing person even while the story is taking place, but he is NOT as bad as some of the people in the LMK fandom make him out to be. I assume it’s because Macaque is the goth shy boy (/hj? /lh), but Macaque literally comes out just to manipulate MK and steal his powers. He’s making the exact same mistakes Wukong did, fighting for power so that he can protect himself. Get stronger. Etc.

Season 4 Special Spoilers:

I don’t think Wukong was ignorant in saying that Macaque doesn’t come to help him. I mean, he got beaten by the Jade Emperor and presumably everyone just left him there and ran off. I’d be pretty mad too. Of course, Macaque was hesitant to begin with, and that’s fair. But he was already there, he could’ve tried. But Macaque has a habit of shying away from fights, only really fighting others to settle a score (S1 E9) or if he has to (LBD arc - both working for and against her, but the S1 E9 relates here, too.) I’m not saying this as an insult, more of an observation. He’s not a coward by any means, a coward would be Peng, who leaves mid-battle in fear of being hurt or losing. Macaque finishes his fights (still knowing when it’s reasonable to retreat), but more often then not prefers to prevent them in the first place. (WHICH IS WHY THE DIVORCE SCENE HITS SO HARD, you know he’s been bottling that up ;v;)

ANYWAY back on topic. I definitely think everything Wukong said there was true. I don’t think he was trying to lie or manipulate Macaque by saying “everything I did was for us”. This is further confirmed when we see him later, tired and completely defeated.

He has nothing to hide here. He’s at his lowest point, stuck in a mountain, tensions high from being abandoned by his sworn brothers, being abandoned by people he held dear. Macaque was trying to be nice, but if I were stuck in a mountain and offered food from someone who left me in such a vulnerable state? I probably wouldn’t take the it either. ALSO. We still have NOT seen these things from Wukongs perspective! Every single time something is revealed from his past, it’s narrated by Tang, Azure, Macaque, etc. Wukong has never (from my memory) spoken about his trials first-hand. This is why I love the guy so much!! What’s going on in his head? How does he feel about these things?

These are such complex characters who have been through so much, so it really bothers me when people look at Sun Wukong and decide to demonise him because of the past which, not only has he moved on from, but we have never even seen his side of the story on. Why did he kill Macaque? Did he kill Macaque? (I’ve seen theories he didn’t, we don’t know rn tho)

Wukong went through a lot of pain to change. Wukong is haunted by his past and in genuine distress over it. You can’t tell me this isn’t a man filled with deep remorse for his actions.

He’s not perfect, but he’s a hell of a lot better. It just really frustrates me that people disregard and discredit the work he put in to get to this point.

THATS IT THATS THE POST

This is really disorganised I’m sorry, I just keep seeing people act like Wukong is the scum of the earth and I honestly just do not get it.

Please don’t send asks about this post, just reblog or comment.

I don’t want to deal with passive aggressive (or just straight up aggressive) people.

As a final note: No, Wukong is not perfect. He’s still a deeply flawed character even with his development. No, Macaque isn’t the scum of the earth. They both have their own problems and they both fucked up. They both did something wrong. That’s the point.

[esoraluco]

ddl. Blue is wearing merman leggings

[chuplayswithfire]

Izzy Hands is Kylo Ren: Or, An Informal Exploration of Fandom's Proclivity Towards Minimizing and Sympathizing with White Male Violence

i brought this undertaking upon myself by putting this thought out there (and getting cursed with the knowledge that this take makes izzy/ed reylo) without my full intent to write the post. my being cursed is my own fault, my own cross to bear, my own self made misery. however, i'm going to make this analysis EVERYONE'S problem now because jokes on all of us, i wrote the post.

notes for readers: this meta is just under 6500 words. i have tried to divide it into thematic sections determined by bolded lines. sometimes i will reiterate previous points with expanded discussion because i always have more to say. big thanks to @dragonzair @plotdesigner and @twelvemonkeyswere

so to get the ground work settled: obviously izzy hands is not identical to kylo ren, given that he is not the fallen son of heroes, nor directly a key figure of a fascist empire. however, in the context of our flag means death and its fandom, particularly the portion that favors izzy and takes him at his word without examining the underlying context of his scenes and dynamics with other characters, there is a LOT of similarity between the ways that the two characters enact violence, and in the way the fandom response is geared towards sympathizing with these two characters for said violence while also and minimizing their responsibility for it.

i'll start with kylo ren because this won't be an exhaustive analysis of that character, mostly due to 1) i dont really like star wars 2) this isn't about star wars its about how this specific character kinda swept through peoples brains,,, but, kylo ren is a white man with a lot of power who demonstrates little interest in controlling his emotions (makes them the burden of other people), violates the boundaries of other characters, betrays those closest to him while blaming them for that betrayal, and violently lashes out when circumstances and situations don't go his way. he torments Rey, the female lead of the sequel trilogy, both physically through torture and emotionally through continuous attempts at manipulation.

a significant portion of the star wars sequel trilogy fanbase sympathizes with him to an excessive degree, denying his responsibility for his actions, blaming his parents and uncle Luke (despite the fact that he's like thirty) for his choices, minimizing his responsibility for his actions and at times minimizing the extent of his violence, even when its on screen. a tactic often used for this is displacing kylo ren's violence onto the leading man of color, finn, in an effort to make finn look like the real misogynist, the real villain, the real tormenter, all so that kylo can walk away looking better.

this is because pretty much all of western media is geared towards asking the audience to sympathize with white men. with white violence. with (white) emotional expression as violence.

we see this in american cop shows a lot, where we the audience are prompted to sympathize with violent cops violating the law because they just feel so much about the crime, it touches them so emotionally that they can't help but rough up a suspect who's been accused of such a horrible thing (this is essentially the bread and butter of chicago pd but that's another story). it's this idea that violence isn't just violence, violence is sympathetic and an expression of emotion, and it's understandable, and it happens, and critically, of course, all of this is  only if the perpetrator is white or acting in service to whiteness.

kylo ren murders his father, and people talk about how sad it is he lost his dad. kylo ren destroys planets, and we talk about how sad it is that his uncle wanted to kill him for seeing he would grow up to destroy planets. kylo ren tortures and torments rey and we get posts about how it symbolizes her womb and their sexual congress (god i wish i was joking).

kylo ren is a dream boy to huge swaths of tumblr and his every flaw and crime is softened under the gaze of understanding, sympathizing, and minimizing.

now, what does this have to do with israel izzy hands, you might be asking?

well, you see, izzy hands is also a violent white man. he also blames other people for his actions (and failures), he makes assumptions about people's motives and their true purpose in life because he believes he innately understands them better than they do themselves (and in doing so, izzy hands works to uphold the colonizer mindset of the british navy, even as blackbeard himself's first mate), he harasses and insults and demeans. he betrays the person he considers himself closest to, and then blames the betrayed for the betrayal. he has delusions of grandeur and overestimates his own skill and importance. and a good portion of the fandom buys into all that he says hook, line, and sinker, all the while minimizing his violence and sympathizing with it. 

now this is a good amount of claims, so i'll go through them one by one, and discuss ways that i've seen them brought up in fandom specifically to minimize the negative impact and sympathize with izzy. 

firstly: izzy as a violent white man

violence can be a confusing thing, in some people's eyes. to a certain type of person, violence can only be defined in the realm of the physical, in laying hands or weapons on another person with intent to injure. but to many more people, particularly marginalized people (in my experience), violence can also include verbal and emotional attacks, bigoted remarks, and the undercutting of boundaries. 

izzy does engage in at least two direct acts of physical violence, first when he grabs fang by the beard and yanks it to punish him for asking a question and then again when he challenges stede to a duel for the explicit purpose of separating him from ed (against ed's wishes!) and then stabs him rather than call it a draw. and note: there's no evidence that izzy WASNT trying to kill stede with that stab. we don't have reason to believe that he knew ed had taught him about being run through, not when the joke of the run me through scene hinged instead on izzy thinking ed and stede were fucking on deck. 

but izzy's violence is chiefly of the other varieties. he is verbally and emotionally, homophobically, violent towards lucius, ed, and to an extent, stede himself. i’ll describe these events in detail in the section about him harassing and demeaning others!

izzy blames other people for his actions 

on two (maybe three) different occasions, we see izzy displace blame onto other people for his own actions and failures. the first time is when he's explaining how he came to have one hostage instead of two when talking to ed - this one isn't really about violence, just about establishing a bit of personality and character with izzy. ed points out that stede bested izzy in swordplay and izzy displaces the blame for his loss onto stede, saying that it was an ambush, completely unprofessional.

they are pirates, a good 90% of their job is ambushing people

being ambushed isn't a good excuse for losing a fight! especially when it wasn't actually the ambush that lead to izzy's loss. i've seen people dismiss what happens a lot as stede getting by with luck or plot armor or romantic comedy genre shenanigans, but what it ultimately comes down to is that izzy was overconfident in his ability to handle the situation. when ivan took a rock to the face and went down, izzy took his eyes off the man standing in front of him with a knife and because of that ended up with said knife pressed to his face. he took his eyes off the threat before him because he didn't see stede as a threat.

but he's not going to admit that to ed, so he blames stede for being unprofessional and ambushing him.

his second displacement of blame also involves stede, is an attempt to provoke violence - he lies to ed and says that he specifically told him blackbeard desires his company, despite the fact that he did no such thing, and actually avoided (twice!) saying who his boss was. this is clearly because he's hoping ed will get angry and he'll be allowed to take care of/kill/thrash stede around for the embarrassment back when they first met.

if not for the fact that ed is BORED and looking for something new and different, he might have taken stede's unknowing insult as mockery and we see what happens to people who mock blackbeard. (they get skinned with a snail fork and tossed overboard.)

izzy was hoping ed would give him permission to dish out violence, and he's visibly disappointed when ed is fascinated instead.

this leads us to the third time he displaces blame, and this is not an attempt at violence, this is an act of violence. izzy sells ed out to the fucking british navy, and he can play it off as selling stede fucking bonnet out all he wants, but he was prepared for the chance that ed would be there at the mercy of the british. he was prepared enough that he clearly made a deal to have blackbeard remanded to the custody of "captain hands" if he was found with stede bonnet. he could have gotten the crew of the revenge and ed killed, all because he couldn't accept that ed is capable of making his own choices (he thinks ed is being seduced, that something's been done to his brain. he doesnt allow that ed could have different priorities or different choices, its his way or the high way)

he used his knowledge of ed and his past to plot an intimate betrayal, not just in selling him out to the navy but by summoning up his old buddy calico jack to be the distraction to try and lure him away from the rest, specifically so he can hurt people that izzy doesn't like and ed does (stede and the crew of the revenge). if ed hadn't come back, stede would have had the crew to open fire on those navy ships and its probable that they would have done it. they probably would have been sunk then and there, attacking three navy ships with just the revenge on their side.

and the whole time he’s still trying to convince edward that he’s doing this for edward’s sake, that he’s not really betraying him he’s just getting rid of stede, that this is for the best and it will be painless, and then when ed steps up and makes the choice to sign the act of grace to save stede, izzy comes at him again with “do you really want to lick the king’s boots”, as if ed would be at a position of considering it without izzy’s betrayal limiting choices.

a significant fandom response to all of these events has, for the most part, been to minimize and sympathize. i've seen posts about izzy being a housewife abandoned by his spouse for a new model. i've seen posts discussing how cruel ed is for abandoning izzy for a fresh interest. how izzy was just trying to help ed in all this because the navy would have found them eventually. there are plenty of posts about how izzy is definitely super competent and only lost to stede in the first place because of the genre change, never mind that genre changes don’t explain why izzy lost to stede the first time. izzy literally sells ed out to the british navy for petty spite and because he doesn't respect ed to make his own decisions, and the discussion hinges on devotion.

come now. we must see that this is the same kind of minimization and sympathizing that was done with kylo ren, when he murders his own father and then makes it out that it's han solo's own fault he killed him, that han gave him no choice. izzy is implying that ed left him no choice but to sell him out, even though izzy had every choice. all he had to do was walk away. he already had walked away, thanks to the duel he INSISTED on having.

this leads into the next point:

izzy making assumptions about people's motives and their true purpose in life, and the ways that izzy acts to uphold the colonizer mindset of the british navy.

there have been multiple posts about the possibility of izzy having a background with the british navy due to his behavior - specifically how he handles discipline, and posts exploring the racial (and racist) dynamic to izzy and ed's relationship to each other. here i intend to argue that izzy’s similarity towards the culture of the british navy and the racial dynamic to izzy and ed’s relationship are in fact inherently tied together.

because see, izzy claims that he does this stuff for ed, he claims that he wants his captain back, he claims that lucius is a proper seductress sleeping around behind his partner's back, he claims that ed is washed up and posing and blackbeard is the real man - and all of these elements are about izzy enforcing his world view, derived from toxic masculinity as enforced by the dominant oppressively expanding white culture onto the people around him. the world of OFMD, contrary to some beliefs, is not a muppet world of the romance genre, nor is it a world free of homophobia. it is our world, its just not solely centering the white experience. it doesn't treat racism as a source of voyeuristic trauma porn, and it doesn't treat homophobia that way either.

somewhere along the line, izzy hands clearly became the sort of man who thinks the only real power is violence, the way a man leads is through fear, that power makes a man into a god, and that punishment and humiliation are the way to create fear and from that fear, power. these same mentalities are centralized in the british empire and its navy (as well as the fancy folk on the party boat), where the clearly doesn’t respect people of color and specifically black people, where izzy’s tactics are taken from the navy - that whole show he puts on, fine dining while the crew works? that’s a navy tactic. the no rations for a week also calls to mind military tactics for breaking rebellious recruits.

we see the punching down, the establishment of power through fear and punishment, in the way that izzy talks to the people around him, the way he grabs and yanks fang's beard to stop him from questioning blackbeard even while he himself calls ed half-insane/half-mad (there are things izzy is allowed to do that the other men aren’t), the way he moans oooh daddy, daddy and snaps bitch to try and shame lucius for being the penetrated partner (but notably has nothing to say to pete), the way he labels ed a nonhuman and says he's better off dead and then infantilizes him as a gay man by saying he's pining over his boyfriend as if ed, a middle aged man who's had previous relationships, is a naive child. again, we see it in the way he sets himself up to eat a fine meal while the crew works and sets fang and ivan (two men of color) to be his dining servants, salting his food and standing by for his orders. we see it in the way that only roach, frenchie, and oluwande are actually being put to any hard work, trying to heave up the anchor, while the rest of the crew is on light duties!

izzy claims he was honored to work for blackbeard because he respected his skill as a sailor, essentially, his mind. but he constantly dismisses ed and his creative process and his feelings and his opinions and literally anything ed does that doesn't fit with izzy's own preconceived notions of what it means to be Edward 'Blackbeard' Teach. this simultaneously infantilizes ed - implies that he doesn't know what's best for him, that he can't take care of himself, that the decisions he makes for himself are the wrong choice - and lionizes him, makes him not a myth rather than a man, makes him someone who has to constantly win, who can never enjoy a fine fabric, never admire a library, never cry over an abandonment, never express himself with anything but violence.

and frankly, this simultaneous infantilization and lionization pattern is nothing unique or new. this is a classic tool of white supremacy and a classic tool of colonization from european powers.

it's the assumption that non-white people are inherently more ""savage"", more wild, more aggressive, less intelligent, less rational, less capable of strong emotion. izzy is disgusted by ed's softer side, and this is UNIQUE to izzy. fang and ivan, they both approve of ed's softer side, of ed bonding with the crew of the revenge. ivan says he's never seen ed so open and available and he doesn't sound bothered by it.

but izzy is upset. and in the finale, when ed is mourning and grieving his hopes and romantic dreams, izzy is disgusted. he says that ed would be better off dead than what he is now, clearly considering him emasculated and dehumanized if he can't be the peak of masculinity that's expected of him, not just as blackbeard but as blackbeard who is a man of color. izzy cannot tolerate that this person he respected only on the grounds of ed presenting as the man izzy expects him to be, in the identity izzy expects him to have, no deviations, no stops, no breaks, is not just that persona.

this is racist. i will say again, this is racist. this is izzy expecting ed to be beyond human and other because izzy will not respect him as a whole and complete person. this is the white colonizer mentality that expects people of color to be superhuman and always on their a-game and never have a bad day. this is izzy ignoring the new white men under his command barely working as he puts the new black men to the hardest work the ship has.

this is izzy, embodying the toxic, racist culture that the golden age of piracy represents - mass colonization, empire building, the invasion and conquering of native peoples all over the planet.

what is the fandom response to these scenes, these events? well, once again, big on the minimization, huge on the sympathy. posts abound about how izzy isn't ACTUALLY homophobic he just hates femininity, he just hates laziness, he just hates people who cheat on their partners. posts about how izzy isnt racist, the show probably didn't think twice about how they had people working! izzy isn't racist and you're overly sensitive if you think he is! izzy isn't racist, YOU'RE the racist who must hate white people.

the response is to talk about how izzy is on the breaking point, how he’s afraid, how he’s losing his stability, how he’s lashing out to try and get back the man he trusts and loves and doesn’t realize the damage he’s doing to ed because he just doesn’t understand what’s happening. 

the classic fandom response, really. it happened with kylo ren too. kylo ren isn't a misogynist, he just respects rey as an opponent. kylo ren isn't racist, the stormtroopers come from all over. its not racist to like kylo ren more than finn, i just think kylo is more sympathetic and nuanced, and besides finn was being the REAL misogynist by holding rey's hand -

people say ed's the real problem too, for not talking to izzy, for liking stede, for hurting the brand. there are posts theorizing about how blackbeard is izzy's creation too so ed can't just give it up. that ed owes his crew (izzy) to be blackbeard even if it makes him miserable. posts about how ed is threatening izzy more than actually expressing suicidal ideation, because why listen to the man of color when you could sympathize with a white man, right?

after all, ed is so erratic and tired and half-insane, he's leaving all the real work to izzy (never mind that ed had a plan, never mind that ed invited izzy into the plan by asking him about the clouds, never mind that izzy rejected this invitation by being disgusted by what he views as a digression because even now he doesn't care about ed's process and that ed’s sigh about izzy lacking imagination shows this isn’t a one-off-)

never mind that izzy says he was excited to work for blackbeard, implying ed was already a legend when izzy began working for him, rather than izzy having a hand in creating the blackbeard legend. never mind that izzy doesn't actually do anything to come up with another plan besides ask how fast the ship can sail when its already too late and ask about the munitions as though they can take on a fully armed spanish navy vessel (and then doesn't have the canons prepped, or follow through on those questions)-

what matters is that izzy SAYS he's trying to keep them all alive and that izzy SAYS he's managing ed.

never mind what the actual text, the show, reveals to us. fandom takes izzy at his word even as ed's own words are dismissed. ed says he feels like he's drowning? ed says he hasn't tried dying yet, maybe he should give it a go? he's threatening izzy with killing himself, not expressing his feelings. he's just talking about wanting to retire. he doesn't mean it. he's making izzy stress by not sharing his plan, never mind that izzy is instantly dismissive the moment he starts to tell him about how he got to the plan.

dismissing the male protagonist of color in favor of the white antagonist - a classic fandom move. classic white supremacy and defense of whiteness too - to believe white people and question people of color.

izzy harasses, insults, and demeans and also just because i can fit it here, izzy has delusions of grandeur

i already talked about this a good amount in the last segment, but i think this is really critical here in discussing how the fandom minimizes the impact of what izzy does and says in the name of sympathizing with him. izzy's actions are aggressive, his words violent, intended to cause harm, intended to HURT, intended to make people feel small and ashamed, because as izzy himself put it - he's first mate hands, or god to you.

that's the high he's riding on. being god as far as he's concerned.

(never mind that this is clearly a delusion of grandeur because the second izzy is actually in charge he's riding high in classic british navy fashion, sitting up and having dinner in front of the crew to establish power, clearly delineating the line between white and non-white, and then punishing them with no food to regain power after they fail to respect him)

and he gets there, like i said, by punching down. he keeps fang and ivan in line with violence, he tries to have the revenge's crew kept down with violence, he tries to work lucius into exhaustion when he catches him in the submissive role of sex and lucius fails to be intimidated by him -

which again, this is motivated by homophobia and the harassment is to the bottom partner, which happens a LOT with homophobia, because homophobes tend to think the person DOING the penetrating is still a man's man while the person submitting is for lack of polite terms, "the woman", "the girl", the "bitch" as izzy puts it. It's not about hating femininity, its about hating femininity in men aka homophobia. And when words alone can't work, Izzy tries to force Lucius into submission by making him scrape the barnacles, even though he actually doesn't have authority over lucius!

and the thing about the barnacles, because THAT comes up a lot too, is that while barnacles can damage a ship's hull and paneling, the chief problem that barnacles cause is that they slow down the ship by increasing friction between the ship and the water surface. this CAN be a problem, but it's not an immediate problem, it's not one that wouldn't be better served being taken care of the next time the ship docks or comes to port and they get other repairs done. it's not the essential, immediate chore that i've seen some imply. it's scrubby busy work that izzy put lucius on as punishment for not being ashamed when izzy decided to humiliate him. izzy says, you think you're cute and lucius says i've decided to carry myself like i am.

one way that we can tell this is nonessential grunt work is the fact that izzy puts lucius, who by all accounts is the least experienced sailor, to work with minimal instruction. as was pointed out to me, in the history of pirate and sailing media, scrubbing the barnacles is generally a grunt work chore to break the newbies in. it’s maintenance, not essential work that the ship depends on. 

and this interaction? this has nothing to do with izzy thinking lucius is unfaithful. it happens before then. and he doesn't come at pete for getting his dick wet, just lucius for being the one wetting it and being unashamed about it. its about homophobia, and the fact that in the world of toxic masculinity the worst thing you can do is "submit".

now, there's subtext here about izzy not being straight, about izzy being repressed and gay and lashing out at lucius who is openly and joyously gay and that's definitely likely - but that still makes it homophobia, and its not internalized homophobia either, its externalized homophobia directed at the gay men around him that izzy sees as emasculated and emasculating. personally i have no patience for people who make others miserable to get some scrap of satisfaction for themselves, but i know other people do, have patience and sympathy.

but there's so much faith extended to izzy. so much talk about his redemption, his suffering, his sorrows, the way he hurts, the way ed hurt him, when izzy initiates the violence and disrespect, but izzy is white and whiteness is prioritized. even when the violence is white on white (izzy vs lucius) izzy’s metatexual position as a repressed gay man is placed in priority to lucius’ emotional safety as an out gay man subject to homophobic violence in the workplace he lives in. when lucius refuses to do the pointless punishment task he’s been given because he wasn’t humiliated, he’s given even more busy work for the pure purpose of burdening, exhausting, and breaking him in, and that’s why lucius is framed as the winner when he makes izzy back off with his own threat of humiliation. 

because the work was never essential and was always about humiliation and forcing “respect”. and yet there are so many posts about izzy being right about the work needing to be done and how lucius really is just lazy and uses seduction to get out of work. over on the ofmd kink meme there are SO many posts about how they just want the crew to see how cool and competent and valuable and right izzy is and to have him get hurt/comfort after being misjudged by the crew. 

how many analyses talk about the class divide in ofmd while failing to mention the racial divide? i know i've read far too many of them.

as with kylo ren and every other violent white man that becomes particularly beloved in fandom, izzy's responsibility for his violence is often diminished and his sympathetic qualities (very limited in the show) are expanded upon. and just to make it clear, this isn't to say every izzy fan interprets him this way but my goodness have i seen a lot of this sentiment.  i find izzy pretty fascinating, on a meta and writing level, and scum under my boots on my personal level, and if anyone takes this post as an attack i mean. that's on you. this post is to raise awareness that this is an on-going habit in fandom that has continued for decades and will continue on for decades if people don't stop and consider, at least occasionally, why they think as they do.

izzy is made out as though he's trying so hard, but he doesn't even care that the crew of the revenge are doing work poorly and sloppily (frenchie is literally nailing his sleeve down…) and when he interrupts them having a meal he screams and shouts but doesn't actually make sure they get to work because it wasn’t about them taking a break its about the fact that they aren’t terrified of being boarded and invaded and he never does any of the oh so concerning work himself. 

fandom takes it for granted that izzy is a reliable narrator when he says he wants the work done right and he's trying to keep things running but we learn from fang that when he was last kept in charge he metaphorically (and pretty much literally) shat the bed. and this is a story fang is happy to share with people he's known for less than two weeks. izzy does NOT command loyalty or respect, he does not keep a crew running, he does not know how to manage people, and days of being in charge later he's only saved from death because ed comes back and saves his life effortlessly, because ED commands respect and loyalty.

when izzy is in charge of things without ed's backing, he's izzy the spewer shitting the bed at doing the job.

and yet his competencies are lauded! and defended! what we see that izzy is good at is fighting and selling out his boss. what we see he's bad at is pretty much everything else. (pretty similar to kylo ren, again, who is likewise held up as competent and intimidating and powerful.)

at no point does the narrative ever reward izzy. at no point is he on top in any of the jokes or the gags. izzy is another badminton for this narrative, punching down and forcibly maintaining the abusive social dynamic of the time and place, and thus like the badmintons, the narrative is never on his side.

but i guess the narrative doesn't have to be on his side, because a portion of the fandom will be, right?

when we look at the impact that izzy has on ed, we can see that its the same impact the badmintons have on stede, and here is where i’ll be adding in observations from @ who helped review and critique this analysis in the drafting stage:

The point about the Badmintons is really good because it's about the different expressions of that racist, homophobic masculinity from two different pov. The Badmintons are of course rich and have an emotional distance from Stede and his masculinity/femininity that they turn into bullying and disdain. But Izzy is up close to Ed. Izzy is in the circle and uses many of the same mechanisms the Badmintons use, just in a slightly different way, but they all humiliate, reproach, harass, and disdain the guy they don't approve of. Where the Badmintons wanted to crush Stede to stop him being who he is, Izzy is trying to control Ed to stop him being who he is. Both the Badmintons and Izzy bring up the past as mechanisms of control, they both refuse to listen when they're told No, they both reject other forms of thinking and other expressions of masculinity. The Badmintons want Stede to suffer because he can't live up to their "ideals," but Izzy wants Ed to suffer to "elevate" him to his ideals. And the racial implication of what that ideal constitutes is still there. Especially because even if this is chance, both Badmintons and Izzy are English. If that makes sense.

And if you add the reading that Izzy is gay and repressed (where the Badmintons are probably not), that also explains why Izzy is given a little more depth and screen time. Because whether this is true or not, Izzy is the eponymous crab in the bucket trying to bring down the others with him because he is too bigoted and closed minded to think there's any other way to live outside the bucket

a lot of fans depict izzy's possessiveness as protectiveness from stede bonnet, as defending his relationship with ed from stede, as being afraid that ed will be weakened and left vulnerable by exposure to stede's dangerous softness -

but izzy is the one who hurts ed for being soft

ivan and fang are both "real" pirates who come from ed's crew and they're both in full support of ed and his growth and change. they serve as balances to show that izzy is not, in fact, correct, about the way the world works. these two are hardened, battle-loving pirates who regret not getting to murder and are happy to punch prisoners. but they enjoy the softer life with the revenge and they enjoy watching ed soften up too

(and yes, they stand with izzy for the big "you have to send him to doggy heaven" discussion, but it seems pretty clearly that that's more because of the no pet rules and lingering dog murder trauma than because they disapprove of ed's changing. just him seemingly altering the rules of the arrangement.)

izzy, acting as antagonist, digs his heels in and goes in on ed right as he's climbing to his feet, because he disapproves of ed reaching out and finding community and sharing his softness with other people. he's disgusted that other people have seen the "weakness" that izzy himself dislikes so much.

there has been a lot of pushback against izzy for the way he attacks ed, i would never pretend otherwise. but there's an equally large amount of poeple who diminish what izzy does, the impact he has on ed, and even the nature of his comments. i've seen posts argue that izzy isn't threatening ed when he says "edward better watch his step", as if there could possibly be a non-threatening connotation to the phrase. i'm not going to argue about whether or not edward is afraid. what i am going to say is that its pretty undeniable by any reasonable standard that izzy is threatening ed.

again, posts about how izzy isn’t homophobic, that go about repeating that  'he's not homophobic he just hates when men are feminine' argument, are at best naive and at worst complete obstrucations of the truth because that is BUILT on the inherent misogyny within homophobia. the idea that men who cry, men who wear bright colors, men who enjoy soft clothing are feminine? is homophobia! Because its all about the fear of men being women because gay men especially men who bottom are seen as being emasculated and womanly. 

in fact, some fans characterize izzy as emotional and hurt, a housewife, a jilted lover, as being the truly vulnerable one between the two, the one facing losing everything... and never mind that izzy is doing heads and shoulders better than ed, and that izzy CHOSE to leave ed's side when he chose not to respect ed's wishes and instigated a duel that ed told him not to do and asked him to back down from, while ed is the one the narrative shows as having actually been left behind. izzy isn’t left behind. izzy leaves, because things need to be on his terms or no terms. And yet izzy is viewed as the one emotionally transgressed upon, the sad wife dealing with an absentee husband, this all, again, takes me right back to kylo ren. 

after all, kylo ren as female-coded, woman-coded, as a feminine character, was a hugely popular take in kylo ren fan spaces. people looked at kylo ren and said that his emotional nature did not make him volatile but in touch with his feelings, feminine coded. his violence was considered self-defense, and he was considered a victim, a real victim, of abandonment, the same way that izzy is even now being considered a victim of abandonment. not going to lie, the way that izzy’s implied masochistic bottom tendencies are taken and blown up by fandom to put him in this space of being more vulnerable than he actually is just reminds me starkly of the way kylo ren fans used his supposed femininity as a defense against critiques of his character.

in conclusion 

i cant believe i spent 6000 words talking about this and i guess this is my huge izzy analysis post that covers my general troubles with the way fandom interacts with the character of izzy hands. Izzy is an interesting character because he’s essentially a slightly more fleshed out badminton, he’s an antagonist who serves to kick ed when he’s down and adhere him to the corrupt and toxic mire of masculine society they both inhabit, but too often he’s not allowed to be fully culpable for his behavior.

fandom has a long habit of finding toxic white men and softening their behavior. it’s not even about condoning the behavior, it’s about changing the text to make them more palatable and i believe its to do with our societal predisposition to trust, cater to, and trust whiteness combined with izzy’s queer coding that makes people latch onto him and want to make him something better than he is. after all, if he isn’t homophobic, if he isn’t enforcing racism, if he isn’t violently suppressing the people around him, then its easier to care for him, love him, sympathize with him, empathize with him - 

easier to see this white man as a victim instead of the architect of all of his own misery. at every turn izzy can walk away and at every turn izzy chooses to take his shovel and dig himself deeper. at no one’s request, at no one’s entreaty, izzy digs his heels in and drives deeper into the fucked up mire of toxic masculinity because he doesn’t want to leave it and he doesn’t want ed or the crew or anyone else to leave it either. And that’s a fascinating character, a sad character, a hurting character, a fucked up character, and i don’t understand why so much of the engagement with this character wants to run way from that. 

izzy hands can find redemption. he can grow and change and become something better. but not if he (and his fanbase) are incapable of acknowledging exactly how deep in the shit he is to begin with. the way for izzy to grow is not for the other characters to change or the other characters to cater to his hurt or make space for him. the way for izzy to change is to recognize that he did this to himself and that his absolution will come from no one else.

[jess-the-vampire]

So there's been a theory going around that Caleb voluntarily left for the Isles leaving child Philip behind, as indicted by the portrait in Hollow Mind, and Philip found his way to the Isles as an adult to find him. Personally I'm rooting for this theory, because it goes to show how similar Caleb was to Luz in both positive and negative traits, both their mutual love of magic and leaving behind loved ones without any regard to their feelings. What's your opinion?

i think that theory does make Caleb out to be far more flawed as a person, the situation itself to be far more tragic for everyone involved, and overall to be a good parallel for him and other characters within the series.

because at this point in time it's so easy to sorta see Caleb as a flawless victim in all of this and while he didn't deserve his fate it's unlikely he's as flawless as fans tend to see him.

I think to an extent Caleb had his issues, bad stuff he had to grow out of, but this adds a whole other layer to it. That Caleb might of been looking to escape earth and live freely, something that lines up with flapjack's goals, but making this one selfish decision, like luz, didn't turn out how he'd thought it would.

Because toh explores the real impact luz's choice has, that there are reprecussions to living out this whimsical fantasy, and her mom is a clear example of it...because luz really hadn't considered at the time what it would do to her.

And same would go for Philip, arguably worse if Caleb was Philip's primary caretaker and if he was very young when it happened. It kinda makes you feel worse for Philip, because in this kinda circumstance...Philip might of thought his brother was killed, or kidnapped, mind warped, or that his brother really abandoned him for years....for witches.

And Caleb might not of fully understood the hurt that caused because he was so happy with his new life.

There's a likelihood Caleb had no idea how to get home so it was out of his control, but at the same time if he didn't even TRY to get back to his brother....how exactly does that come off to Philip?

That his brother didn't care about him? That they did something to him? Was this even his brother at all?

Caleb wanting to be free of his situation is not a bad thing, he would of been clearly making a selfish choice for himself, but leaving Philip behind in a clearly messed up community without a possibly good influence might not of really crossed his mind as a being a problem.

It'd be an unfortunate situation where caleb was doing something for himself but in return left someone behind to get worse without him, making his death an unfortunate circumstance of his actions.

i think it's an interesting take on the situation that sorta humanizes both philip and caleb a little more as characters?

because i love the idea of them both going in together, that makes for far more fun story ideas of them getting into shenanigans, but most ppl who tackle that idea usually have caleb almost be objectively good and philip objectively bad (Outside of those who had the idea of philip going from good to bad and caleb from bad to good).

and that's fine if you wanna do that, but i think it adds more to them as characters if caleb can have more moments of screwing up and philip has more moments of sympathy, it makes them feel more like people and their fates more tragic then one brother just being good and one just being bad.

So yeah, i kinda don't mind this idea, i'm personally not really crazy fond of philip sorta being seen as evil from the very beginning and that he always was a bad seed, i think it's far more interesting if you show him as a person and how he came into his opinions and the ways in which he regressed.

Cause at the end of the day, Philip is a tragic character in a way, he objectively thinks he's saving others and in turn he basically ruined his own life for no reason. It's not an excuse, he is at fault for how he handled all of this despite having the time to grow out of it, but it's sad his society and it's views are kinda one of the main reasons he has nothing now and he did all of this horrible stuff for it because he couldn't shake it and now he has nothing. it's a bad combination of his poor actions and the world around him making him worse, things he can't control and things he could've but didn't.

i think that's far more interesting then simplifying his character as just being a dick or just being evil, or caleb just always being good and knowing right from wrong.

So if they go for this, i think it'd be some interesting nuance for the show.

[stuffyflowers]

ok dont take any of these too seriously im just kind of rambling

Dalv - perseverance

i think my favourite dalv moment in the entire game is seeing him get onto stage to play the organ in the pacifist credits. it wasnt at first, but it really did hit me so much harder when i did a neutral run and killed him, allowing me to explore his room. seeing his organ demo, a flawed and hidden away passion project, and knowing in the pacifist ending this would eventually blossom into something he is able to share with the world through his persistence and passion, makes me so happy. this development shown in his hobbies also parallels his arc as a whole, learning to open himself up and share his talents to the world again instead of hiding away. against all odds, against every part of him that wanted to hide away for the rest of his life, dalv managed to persevere.

Martlet - justice

i'd say, barring clover ofc, martlet has the strongest connection to the concept of justice out of any character in the game. its easy to forget this on pacifist playthroughs given her scatterbrained work ethic and optimism that can be misunderstood as naivety, but she does have a very strong sense of justice that especially shines through in several of the games endings. in flawed pacifist for instance, she is able to look at the situation much more impartially than starlo, considering the possibility that clover was not given a choice on whether to kill ceroba or not. she also proceeds to try and plead clovers case to asgore, showing her determination to achieve a just outcome for them (even if it unfortunately does not sway him). in the neutral endings, even in aborted vengeance, she attempts to lead clover back to snowdin to lead a normal life, recognising how a child as young as them shouldnt be led into a life of violence.

this is also why i believe her being the final boss in vengeance was the perfect choice - clover, who has had their sense of justice twisted and distorted beyond repair, having their rampage put to an end by martlets strong resolve to protect monsterkind, to the point she injects herself with pure determination to achieve this.

Starlo - kindness (or bravery)

its kinda ironic for the sheriff to not be justice, but ive said before that i dont think he really embodies that trait as much as someone like martlet. take the case of flawed pacifist i mentioned above: he has an extremely emotionally driven reaction in comparison to martlet's impartiality. yes, it is because he was muuch closer to ceroba than martlet was but you would still expect a 'lawman' like himself to recognise how clovers action could have been even somewhat justified, yet he ends up throwing away the law entirely here for her sake. if starlo was to embody any of the soul traits, id say kindness is the strongest: despite his selfish behaviour that bubbles to the surface after clovers arrival, he does remain motivated to uplift those around him through the distraction from reality offered by the wild east. this is especially evident in him trying his best to cheer ceroba up after the loss of kanako, giving her a place to stay and trying to engage her in the feisty five’s shenanigans where possible.

i also put bravery as a side note bc i do think abt that time someone pointed out that orange skies, the title of the track that plays after starlo is shot in vengeance, could be referencing his bravery in that scene. he may not have had the will to actually shoot clover, but he still had the courage to stand up to them and possibly allowed other monsters to get to safety, making him still more of a hero than they will ever be, in dina's words.

Ceroba - patience (or justice)

"the ability to wait, or to continue doing something despite difficulties?" yeahh thats a perfect way to describe ceroba's mindset. of course, her patience does manifest in an unhealthy way: she is prepared to dedicate her whole life to the completion of chujins project, waiting for the slim chance that she would encounter a fallen human, all for the chance to make a difference. how much she has to suffer and go against her better judgement to get the job done isnt important. theres also the inherent symbolism of her being a predator animal (fox), content in biding her time before pouncing on her prey: she almost successfully hides her true intentions from clover and takes their soul. she knows she may be morally reprehensible, but she is at least persistent and proactive, working towards monsterkind's salvation in a way she believes their leader is failing to do.

like starlo, i wanted to put an extra trait just bc i could see an argument for it as well. going back to star's death scene in the neutral route, its interesting to note that the last thing he says to ceroba is to deliver justice. in her following fight, which continues the trend of references to law terms in its track name (trial by fury), she strives valiantly for this goal, to bring retribution upon clover. even in her pacifist bossfight, her underlying goal is to achieve justice for her family (making their sacrifices not in vain) and for monsterkind as a whole, as their situation and future grows more hopeless

Axis - bravery

this one’s probably a stretch since its basically just bc of the vengeance route but holy shit dude. axis is convinced clover is hunting him down for what he did to integrity but instead of just hiding away he makes an effort to warn and protect as many of the other robots as he can. this is shown when he stops to warn guardener despite knowing clover is chasing after him and is the only reason why her miniboss is skipped in the route, ensuring she stays safe. he does run from clover, yes, but these detours ensured that clover would leave the steamworks unsatisfied, which i find so admirable. when he inevitably fights clover, he acknowledges that he may die, but refuses to run any longer. like starlo, he feels more like a hero than they ever were.

Lately I’ve been thinking a lot about what colour souls the uty monsters would have if they were humans… for some reason… I could elaborate later 4 my reasoning ig

[showtoonzfan]

Hi, I hope its ok to ask this but Ive gotten into debates with ppl who defend the way Stella is written, and I got the argument that she doesnt need complexity because not every villain needs to be complex, there are examples of flat recurring villains like Hank Hippo and Flip mcvicker from bojack horseman+Disney villains, sometimes antagonists are forces for the heroes to overcome rather than characters in themselves and there are already more complex villains in HB like Striker and Verosika. Can you tell me your opinion on this argument?

Ugh, I can’t with this fandom. Here’s the thing, yes….not all villains need to be layered. There are plenty of Villains out there in media that are one note, however when it comes to Helluva Boss, it’s just lazy writing. Had the show just been a simple comedy where you can turn your brain off about asshole demon characters that you’re supposed to laugh at, this wouldn’t be a problem, but that’s not the show is it? No, it’s a deep emotional character driven show that you’re supposed to take seriously, with characters you’re supposed to feel bad for. Aside from the characters that don’t have development at all, (cough, Millie, Loona) Stella is the only character in this show that’s ENTIRELY one note, and when you consider the fact that she’s the bitchy wife to Stolas, a character the show desperately wants you to like and feel bad for, it kinda 100% makes it look like the writers made her evil just so they could justify his cheating and make him look like the good guy, despite he himself being a character with major flaws even if you took Stella out of the picture. Not only is it lazy writing, but it’s fucking boring and uninteresting. Why would I want to see a main character go up against a villain that’s just a predictable bitch and nothing else? Not to mention like I’ve stated before, Stella as a character makes zero sense, she has no motivation or reason behind her actions, she’s just….a bitch. The writing of Stolas and Octavia’s quarrel doesn’t even work because we don’t even fucking know the relationship between her and her mother! Honestly I could go on and on about Stella but I’ve done that before. I recommend this video since it perfectly summed up most of my thoughts on her. The point is, we’re not asking for Stella to be good or even logical mainly, we just want her to have some fucking DEPTH. You can still have a character that’s a villain and still have them layered, it’s not that hard, yet the fans don’t care, the same fans that praise this show’s “amazing” writing. Seems to me like they’re just like the creator, someone who picks favorites and only praises the writing when it’s a character they’re supposed to like.