#analysis and speculation

[adracat]

G Witch and Norse Mythology

I think we all know Okouchi harks to both Utena and The Tempest with the writing, but an influence that's underexplored is Norse myth. The following will be a quick mention and breakdown of these references, starting from the blatant to obscure.

Fólkvangr

Show: Hidden laboratory inside an asteroid. Under the control of the Vanadis institute and where the bloody events of the prologue occur.

Norse: Field ruled over by the goddess Freyja where half of those that die in combat go upon death, whilst the other half go to Odin in Valhalla.

Vanadis

Show: The institute which pioneered the GUND-format and gundams. They were disbanded and violently stopped in their medical and military operations.

Norse: Also known as Freyja, Vanadis is a goddess of war, fertility, and witchcraft/magic. She has dominion over Fólkvangr.

Gundams Lfrith Ur and Thorn

Show: Gundams piloted by the witches from Earth; Sophie and Norea. Sophie pilots Ur while Norea pilots Thorn.

Norse: Ūr or Uruz is a rune meaning the following-

It governs shaping and forcing fortunate circumstances creatively through will and inspiration, self-healing and maintenance of good mental and physical health, assertion of home ground, personal space, independence and freedom, strength and tenacity, courage, persistence against all odds. Uruz is a symbol of the wild bovine, a reminder that cattle were once wild creatures. Uruz represents young warriors. https://runesecrets.com/rune-meanings/uruz

Thorn or Thurisaz-

It governs destruction of enemies, curses binds and fetters, awakening the will to action, breaking resistance of blockages in body, mind and spirit, Increased potency and prowess in romantic relationships, and understanding of the division and separation of all things. Thurisaz to be described as a thorn that is most sharp, a grim and evil thing to take grip on or touch. Thurisaz is also a fertility rune in the sense that it breaks down the barren and hard, rocky realms into workable soil as to bring fruitfulness to crops and wombs. https://runesecrets.com/rune-meanings/thurisaz

These are just the ones I caught so if you see another, feel free to comment! The next will just be speculation based on my own knowledge.

Yggdrasil and Odin

It occurs to me as I drink in this image composition that it looks similar to Yggdrasil, or the world tree in Norse myth. Aerial forms the trunk/branches while the people are its leaves. Considering all the norse references thus far, it feels intentional. And I fully believe it is when you spot Miorine falling towards the base.

Her fall to the base of the 'world tree' is relevant because of this image. In Norse mythology, Odin has one eye because he sacrificed it to the Mimisbrunnr (Mimir's well located beneath Yggdrasil) in exchange for a drink of the well's water. It grants Odin wisdom and insight. It wouldn't surprise me if Mio is forced to make a similar trade during S2, either to solve a problem or make an escape. (from QZ maybe?)

I'll likely add to this if I notice anything else

[burningthemidnightcityoil]

ON THIEVES

The Thief is the Active Stealing Class. They steal for themselves, in contrast to their counterpart, the Rogue, who steals for others.

Our most known example is Vriska Serket, a Thief of Light. A background example would be the Condesce or Meenah Peixes, who is a Thief of Life.

Thieving in Homestuck's case of mixing narration and video game logic, means taking something from your target or adversary, and enforcing yourself with it. Mostly, this is in regards specifically to the aspect of the Thief, but valuables are always a constant. (A thief, no matter the aspect, will not say no to loot and treasure. )

An example of how a thief operates can be seen with Meenah, as her many selves serve as the prime example, and her aspect is less esoteric than Vriska's.

... Meenah Steals Life. This comes to be:

Literally stealing your life (Health), as in killing you. As a thief, however, Life (Health) can be used to reinforce herself. This means, in a sense, she can vampirically take your health.

Stealing your Life (Wealth), as in robbing you of a desirable lifestyle. She was Empress of the Troll Empire, and enforced the caste system that left thousands to millions enslaved, abused and fearing execution or just executed.

Stealing your Life (Natural Abilities), by the end of HOmestuck, the Condesce had taken on the various natural abilities of all trolls. In her case, as a thief, this was probably very literally.

Stealing your Life (Growth / Experience), her method of control over Jane Crocker, robbed Jane of experiences and healthy growth. Sometimes, with literal mind control.

There is, however, an additional definition to being a Thief. It ultimately lies underneath their Stealing tendencies.

And that is "Force".

In truth, Force can also be applied to the Thief's contrasting mirror classes, Page / Knight. So in this sense, Thief / Rogue and Page / Knight fall under "The Force Classes".

When Meenah steals Life, she is acting as the Force of LIfe for Trolls. (She isn't creating Trolls, mind, that lies with the Mothergrub), but she is actively directing how Life works for Trolls.

( This contrasts with her Post-Scratch counterpart, Feferi, who seeks to Change Life--mostly hers, but in addition to others as well. )

When Vriska steals light, she is stealing Meaning, Consciousness, and Symbolism. She acts as the Prime Force of Light, actively meddling in the aspect and its power over others.

As an acting Thief, the "Apprentice of a Thief", John Egbert stole Breath--Plot, Motion, Action, Freedom. Specifically, he stole Caliborn's (By beating the shit outta him), taking Caliborn's plot of Homestuck and running with it. John's retcon abilities, which heavily benefited his allying thieves and rogues, Literally Steal the Plot by Changing It. He is the ultimate proof of success when it comes to Role-Playing a different Class (In his case, The Thief.)

And after all, Thieves are all about EnForcing and ReinForcing a thing, by taking it into their own hands instead.

[ambrosiagourmet]

I think one of the biggest tragedies of Laios & Falin and their relationship is how much his actions impact her life. But like. Specifically how much they WOULDN’T impact her life as much if they weren’t both stuck in such a shitty abusive situation.

This part of the Falin-tries-makeup daydream hour comic is what got me thinking about it again because truly it just... it seems like such a like an offhand comment that I'm sure Laios didn't mean to be cruel or anything. That's just like. A little kid not thinking about what they are saying. ESPECIALLY when the kid in question is Laios.

But man they depended on each other SO much as kids. Too much. It really feels like they didn't have any other source of positive reinforcement, or anyone else to share themselves with. So of course an offhand comment like that has a huge impact on Falin.

Or this little bit from one of the flashbacks:

This tears me apart. Do you think it tears him apart to think about? I think it does. I think Laios holds every small failure to care for Falin against himself.

And then there's the Bigger stuff. The way that him coping with his own trauma ended up impacting her.

Like his interest in monsters. Like him going to find a ghost, and accidentally revealing Falin's magic to the whole village in the process.

Like him needing to leave. And leaving her behind.

He shaped her life so much, and he carries so much guilt for it. And again, there should have been other people there to help. The same things that made Laios need to leave home are the things that made his leaving so hard on Falin. She ate alone after that. She shouldn't have had to eat alone just because Laios wasn't there.

She was 9 when he left for school, and he was 11.

Nine. And Laios feels like he failed her because he didn't stand by her through this better. As an eleven year old.

Both of these kids deserved so much better from the world.

[the-mercurial-star-o-vesper]

TF2 COMIC THEORY (and Spoilers)

What, did Zephaniah Mann do?

Look, if there's one thing I know about Valve Lore, is that its really hidden, really coded, and TF2 has been fucking TEASING for decades now.

And as far as I'm concerned...

We know who the mystery man in the rip is... That's Gray Mann, the missing brother. Gods knows he's been teased enough over the years.

But here, I'm interested in...

[ Spoilers below ]

... Where the stinger occurs.

Zephy is not an only child.

Because his brother is Silas Mann, the Headless Horseless Mann. Owner of a mansion, haunting that very mansion. Shown in the first picture posted. They ran "Zephaniah Mann and Sons, Quarterly Munitions" Together.

Its a tradition for Mann sons to kill the other siblings. Its why there was such a rivalry between the Mann twins (erm, Triplets).

Our Admin apparently knew already, was already observing the situation...

She was waiting.

What, did Zephaniah Mann do?

Why does the administrator hate him so much?

Does it have something to do with a little girl...

... Who can't remember how her parents died.

The man in the picture wears a Towering Pillar of Hats. While that's just the TF2 Timeline Aesthetic... there is another significant element.

Its in Coal Town, surrounded by Hales. While its the "Booths" hat, it was around, clearly, before Bilious was a baby--in Barnabas Time.

Zephaniah and Sons would become Mann Co, after being given to Barnabas.

What, did Zephaniah Mann do?

Easy.

He murdered the Administrator's father, Silas Mann, and her mother, out of "Tradition", and then claimed that HE was an ONLY CHILD like the selfish self-centered bastard he is.

And Our Administrator ensured, even through vengeance that lasted centuries, to a point where she didn't even remember why she started, that it would Never Continue.

Vengeance of a little girl who lost her parents.

Arguably, in comic lore, the torn picture isn't exactly accurate anymore.

Because that Gray Mann in the center, and our Mann Twins didn't even know there was a Gray Mann, and in fact, most of the people in the picture didn't even know about him. And if they took a picture, then clearly, someone would've known.

So its more than likely, a portrait or lore symbollic only. Only meant for the fans, to know what we're looking for and Who, about the time of the first Halloween Events.

( Look it took decades to get all the comics, mate, its not gonna be a craft masterpiece. We get what we get. )

[teambyler]

My video "A LAWYER'S EVIDENCE that Mike and Will become a romantic pair in Stranger Things" is out!

Many of you have followed me ( @teambyler ) or read my essays analyzing Byler (I've linked some of the most-shared ones below). I am actually also a LAWYER who has a YouTube channel called RONALD OFF THE RECORD, and I just released my big video on Byler! (I also have another YouTube channel with 45K subscribers that I mention in the video)

I'm prepared to put my professional reputation as a lawyer on the line to comment on a piece of science fiction, because goddammit this is important to me! It is not "delusional" to think Will and Mike will become a couple, and there is nothing wrong with you if want it to happen! This is a video essay I've been planning for at least SIX MONTHS, and I put a lot of work into it. Please share, and please leave comments. Enjoy! =D

0:00 Why this video 1:38 Hate for Byler on the internet 10:16 Case for Mileven 15:21 Case for Byler: Starting premises 17:56 If Will were a girl… 25:30 The evidence! 29:05 EXHIBIT A: The Snow Ball 31:34 B: Mike's reactions to El and Will being upset 34:21 C: Season 3 ending montage 39:16 D: Airport reunion 47:51 E: Rink-O-Mania argument 51:28 F: Heteronormativity, audience expectations 58:25 G: Throwing away the letter 59:55 H: 2nd heart-to-heart scene 1:05:43 I: Mike can't say he loves El 1:13:27 J: Platonic reunion 1:15:12 K: Will's role convincing Mike to say "I love you" 1:20:08 L: Effect of the "love confession" on El 1:39:54 M: The Painting Lie 1:43:22 Honorable mentions 1:45:27 Non-diegetic evidence 2:01:23 Actor statements 2:10:34 NOT how you write an unrequited love story 2:16:07 Why Byler SHOULD happen (queerbaiting, etc.) 2:28:21 A more powerful story 2:35:45 A personal note

I'm now making this my new pinned post, so I'll list a few of my posts here for people to check out.

ADDITIONS: -28:00 On "We should normalize same-sex friends being affectionate, they don't have to be gay," I should have been clearer. HOMOPHOBIA is the reason for that stigma. Straight friends feeling like they can be affectionate in our society HAS to include normalizing LGBT+ people. -1:16:55 I should've said this more clearly: Will reminded Mike that who HE is, HIS unique qualities, make him worthy of love and make El love him, not dumb luck. And Will of course could convey that because Will loves the actual nerd MIke and everything he is. -1:17:06 Mike making El "not feel like a mistake" doesn't fit El, because she says that Mike looks at her "like I'm a monster, too". Nor did she "push you away because she was afraid of losing you". That's Will, not El. Mike felt love because Will was describing himself. -1:52:36 I forgot to mention that, in the original Nina opera, Nina's lover is ALIVE and DOES return. The Duffers changed the story so that Nina's lover does NOT return, to further suggest Mike won't return! -2:35:22 I'm kicking myself for not being more specific about Mike and Will being heroes in more than one way: I think the theme of bullying from s1 will return, with Will (and also Mike) having to face bullying for being boyfriends in Hawkins.

EDIT: I hit 1000 subs, only to discover THIS VIDEO CANNOT BE MONETIZED. ='( I think I put over 100 hours of work in this video, and this isn't sustainable for me unless I get support. This also means I can't make public videos with the same quality -- using show clips and music makes a stronger impact. I've considered deleting and reposting an edit, but that would losing all the wonderful comments and CUTTING OUT THE LAST SCENE. ='( ='( ='( NO. FUCKING. WAY.

So this is what'll happen: future videos NOT use clips and music to the same extent, except versions I post on my Patreon. And I need Patrons because I don't make money as a social-justice lawyer, and rely on that plus YouTube ads. Here's the Patreon link! (Any future video will be clipped, with the full version on Patreon) https://www.patreon.com/c/theruleslawyer

Some other @teambyler posts:

Mike was saying "I love you" to Will

Questions to ask if ever you have Byler doubt

How the Duffers have set Will up to have a happy ending in Season 5

The most heartbreaking way Byler can culminate (and how I predict it will) (I know this is less likely than an "escape from Camazotz" possession scenario, but I still want this to happen =D )

-teambyler

[cirrus-grey]

I know I haven't mentioned it in a while but I'm still red-stringing about the symbolism of tea vs coffee btw. Alice found a tape recorder and now Sam’s bringing her tea. She's been introduced to the Archives' universe. She's upset and goes to make herself coffee instead. She refuses to be drawn in and finds refuge in the comforting and familiar instead.

[bisexual-buck]

"But Buck was trying to get Eddie's attention."

Well I have some thoughts on that! I think Buck does like Tommy, and there's no confusion for him about that. His feelings for both people can coexist!

My interpretation of last night's events for our chaotic bisexual kind of played out as him trying to get both Tommy's and Eddie's attention at different times. And not really knowing why. I think he was having feelings he couldn't really process because he didn't have the right context for those feelings and hasn't really felt them before.

So call me a clown but my thoughts are that he was definitely feeling jealous of both of them. With Eddie, he's primarily been close with only women outside of the 118, not other guys. Buck's subconscious feelings (not known to him at the time or even fully now) may have been along the lines of "Eddie likes women, I have no competition" and then in swoops Tommy (someone Buck already thinks is really cool and wanted to get to know even if he didn't quite know why yet) and his brain goes "I have competition" about both Eddie taking his new interest's attention and Tommy taking his long time interest's attention.

But then Tommy comes back into focus and clearly shows interest in Buck, so it clicks! This was that feeling! Part of the puzzle has been solved— it's just the rest that isn't as obvious to him yet.

Because without understanding his sexuality, Buck has likely only ever viewed Eddie as a friend even if along the way he has felt things that friends don't typically feel. So what we have right now is an opportunity for Buck to explore his bisexuality as a completely separate thing from Eddie, and then come to understand what he has also been feeling for Eddie without realizing before.

Or I'm completely wrong but only time will tell.

[tare-anime]

I love to see Loid's protective side towards Yor growing at a steady pace.

Loid has always been so protective towards Yor from the beginning, even before he himself was aware.

As shown at chp. 5

Here, he has just met Yor, but the moment Swan dared to stomp on her feelings, he got agitated and defend her right away. Even though, he still able to stop himself, and rationalize things.

It happened again during chp. 30

Look at how fast Loid's expression changed from "Hey, what are you doing here, Fiona?" Into "I dare you to say another word about Yor (grrrr)", at the exact moment Fiona dare to imply how worthless Yor was.

Still, after this time, once again Loid rationalized all of actions are for mere mission sake, even though we know during later chapter that he dislike the disguise that imply he and Fiona were married couple.

During Wheeler arc, at chp. 86, Loid finally aware about his "weakness". And that weakness is someone named Yor.

(smh. 🙄🙄 This man really is slow in learning about feelings. But he is getting there......)

Nevertheless, this realization really evoke his protective side. And almost immediately after this moment, he started to actively move to protect Yor, even in the slightest sign of possible 'attack'.

At the latest chapter, chp. 94, a.k.a only in 6 chapters later, he even starts to actively use his physical power to prevent even the slightest discomfort to happen towards Yor.

Look at how hard Loid gripped that man's arm for daring to suggest tying Yor up. And that glare??? Geeezzzz.....

Now, I have a desperate need to see Loid going full attack towards someone who dares to hurt Yor either pysiologically or (is it possible?) physically in somekind of situation like maybe something like (shameless self promotion here) my fic.

Please Endoooooo, I'm begging you..... 🙏🙏

Give us more protective and jealous Loid.

I need to see it 😫😫😫😫😫

[uptoolateart]

Anyone notice how many times Ladybug talked about herself in third person in the London Special?

As soon as she told that lie about Gabriel and Tomoe, she began separating herself from what she'd done. She's coping through dissociation.

Throughout S1-5, she and Adrien were on paths towards integration. They were learning to see that he already was Cat Noir and she already was Ladybug. The strength lay within all along.

But by being untrue, she's gone backwards, splitting her two selves rather than unifying them. She's attempting to compartmentalise Marinette's relationship with Adrien from Ladybug's...which is unworkable.

In a word...our girl is a mess. She's supposedly doing all this to protect Adrien - but who's protecting her?

[random-dragon-exe]

Okay now, I'm wondering if Peri's baby wand was transformed into his current wand.

I mean I know that the current one is supposed to merely resemble it as a reference, but I kinda like the idea that Peri transformed it into the current one himself to reflect his growth and personality.

You know the idea of holding onto a childhood item because of its sentimental value?

I imagine Peri held onto it because it reminded him of his childhood and his time with Timmy; it was his way of keeping a piece of him with him.

Besides, if Jorgen can change his wand from a peace sign to a regular star-shaped wand for later:

Then I don't see why Peri could transform his wand too.

Maybe the regular wands we see are like the standard look, but fairies could alter/transform their wands as they please if they want to. (But most if not all, fairies choose the standard look).

[bymarara]

Ross Duffer has posted a couple of new images. In one of them, we see Disney's 1951 CANONIC Alice.

For those who don't remember or have forgotten what I said about this.

In some of the videos, we see Holly wearing something resembling very strongly, the original Alice dress.

I think that Henry has put Holly in a trance for his own purposes (which are not clear to me, personally, only speculation) and befriended her. He placates her by sending her, perhaps, to her favorite fairy tale.

It is at this point that Holly will probably get lost and the search for her will begin.

Holly Wheeler, will become the Alice in her own mind, in Henry's fairy tale.

[adracat]

GWitch: A Tale of Two Calibans

In the Tempest, there is a character called Caliban. If you've seen episode 21 then this will sound familiar to you. We're told Guston and Belmeria need Suletta to pilot this monstrous gundam and it's without a permet filter. A true cannibal. Dire stuff, and not what we want for Suletta.

Yet I'm not entirely sure she will. Though she has some characteristics of Caliban, bound in servitude to Prospero, he's a symbol of impotent wrath beneath a slaver's chains, the injustice of colonialism, and failed revolution.

He loathes Prospero and is routinely tortured by the man's magic. Yet Suletta, even while outcast by her family, never succumbs to anger. Hers is a heart filled with love even as her Miranda (Eri) and master forsake her.

Caliban by contrast is unable to forgive Prospero for his misdeeds and scorned by Miranda's harsh treatment of him after her rejection. You can interpret that his love was true and he did not intend rape, but his affection for both Miranda and Prospero has soured into hatred.

It's a bit ill-fitting to place Suletta in the Caliban machine as a monstrous gundam capable of devouring its pilot. But then if it's not her, who else?

The Tempest describes Caliban as the son of a witch whom Prospero took as his servant. 'Hag-born, not honour'd with a human shape'

Elan 5, like Suletta, is the unnatural progeny of a 'witch', in this case Belmeria. And also subject to the injustices of Peil, his Prospero. He rankles beneath his fetters and wants more than anything to gain freedom. We're told Peil steals orphans to be used as research, the effects of space colonialism. He's the closest to a true Caliban this show has.

And like Suletta. he was rejected by Miranda. Only his was an attempted violation. It's no coincidence as I see it that 5lan aggressively harasses Suletta either. They are specifically invoking the Caliban parallel. And it's the same for his sympathetic moments

5lan wants freedom from his chains, to live freely without sacrificing himself for a corporation's whims. He's sly and angry but not without cause. And there's a certain weight to how he was forced into servitude wearing another man's face. It's like Suletta, but unlike her he does not serve with love. Only discontent.

As with Caliban, who allies himself with Trinculo and Stephano in the hopes of killing Prospero, I see 5lan doing the same. Him using a brutish path to freedom because it's all he knows and throwing it all on using a gundam, even if it means his death, would be fittng. We know he wants to live but in the wake of Norea's demise I wonder if he's concluded death is inevitable so why not take Peil down with him? This is just speculating on my part, but I did find his change in attitude strange. He's weirdly calm, it reminded me of 4lan. And that's not a good thing. Most tellingly, while Caliban rails against his master, he isn't freed; a message none of us want for Suletta.

I may very well be reading into things, as is my habit, but the fact these two are juxtoposed is significant. We do have two unanswered gundams coded with a black name, one male and the other female; Calibarn and Schwarzette.

[writingdinosaur]

Aziraphale was wrong this. He’ll come crawling back that. I want him to do the apology dance blah blah blah.

You know what I want? I want him to succeed.

I want him to give Heaven hell.

I want him to be a problem of the Metatron’s own making.

I keep seeing a take floating around that the Metatron was obviously lying when calling Aziraphale a natural leader and a good choice for Supreme Archangel and just trying to butter Aziraphale up so he’ll be more open to the idea of rejoining Heaven, but I think there is an important distinction to be made in this regard.

Aziraphale IS those things. He IS a natural leader. He was the first being to ever wield a weapon on earth. He is a high ranking member of Heaven’s army and was in charge of a platoon in the first war EVER. HE WAS FULLY EXPECTED TO DO SO AGAIN IN ARMAGEDDON. We can see this leadership both in Season 1 when he insists to Crowley that they don’t run away and in Season 2 when facing the demons. And if Heaven actually was everything it was meant to be, everything it still proclaims that it is, Aziraphale WOULD be the obvious choice for Supreme Archangel, because when faced between making the right choice or making the obedient one, or even between making the right choice or the comfortable choice, he has always picked the right one.

Give up the sword and lie to God or let the humans suffer? Welp, there goes the sword.

Lie on my word as an Angel or allow three human children to be killed? Guess who’s lying again!

Go back to my abusers in order to make things better for everyone or run away with the love of my life who just confessed his feelings for me? Up I go.

Here’s the kicker. The Metatron ALSO thinks he was lying to Aziraphale. In the Metatron’s eyes, Aziraphale is none of those things. The Metatron and the Archangels are nothing but condescending pricks to the Angel they see as a bumbling, incompetent, slightly insane fool who chose Earth over Heaven.

I don’t want Aziraphale to come crawling back. I don’t want him to realize it’s a lost cause. I don’t want him to give up.

What I want is to see the Metatron’s face as he watches Aziraphale succeed.

[dykealloy]

such a small detail but I cannot stop thinking about law leaving kikoku by luffy's bedside when he went out to talk with hancock and ivankov. idk it stirs up a lot of questions. like does law do this often? does law, like zoro, talk to his well-behaved cursed sword like "kikoku, sit. watch." before he leaves to go have lunch or a well deserved twenty minute post-surgery nap. is this the protective equivalent to leaving a baseball bat by the bedside? doctor's bedside manner emotional support blade? but then I also can't help but notice that it's unsheathed. which... actually, who is that sword protecting really, just sitting there? did luffy wake up more than once in the cradle of that submarine while his body was still recovering? (drugged up to the gills, entirely noncoherent, unable to be reasoned with, going in and out of consciousness, the only thought running through his mind being "ace"). probably would've been a nightmare for the heart crew

[fumifooms]

Rin, smiling, and nagging

Rinsha Fana’s character is summarized in a couple facts thrown here and there. Because she worries for him, she follows Kabru to help his cause and protect him, and to nag him. She’s a grumpy angry tsundere, but it seems not only rooted in her attitude but on a deep rooted physical level, to the point where any intense emotion she feels will make her frown and scowl even if it’s genuine joy. Her childhood was half spent ostracized in the tallman community her family lived in and half with the elves, where she’s said to have been treated like an animal.

We don’t know how she was raised exactly or who it even was, but knowing she was "treated like an animal" by the elves taking care of her…

Elves are shown to have a highly hierarchical society, not only with their concern with status such as nobility and the purity of bloodlines but also reflected by its social culture imo. They have high society and etiquette, upmost devotion to the queen, very role-oriented, like cogs in a machine, and as such, it’s a bit skewed since most of what we see of the elves is in a military context with military people but they seem to value having emotions under lock and key to be efficient and not bring dishonor, Flamela is an interesting character on this. Don’t be a bother and do your job until you’re called on, fulfill your role, everything else is extra at best inconvenient at worst.

Personally I do think the canaries kept Rin, it’d make sense that whichever canaries got stuck with the job at the headquarters would be barebones with her and treat her like an ‘impounded article’, they couldn’t find another place for her and this way they can get her report on the events whenever she can speak again in however many years, and this way it makes sense that she could keep in touch with Kabru too. They’re used to prisoners, not kids. Being raised in a military context rather than at some orphanage would shape her further.

All of this to say…

She’d already seen the world’s harshness to those who don’t conform in her hometown, but with the elves? Her disdain for those who had formal education at a magic school?

Wouldn’t she become very concerned with proving she is not an animal, proving that she’s smart and skilled in her own right on her own merit, even without schooling. And to do this she nitpicks and nitpicks, because even being pristine isn’t enough to be respected, but at least it’s not giving others reasons to disrespect and dehumanize her. Learning to school her emotions, to scowl as a defense mechanism because anything else makes her vulnerable, because they don’t care about her as a person with feelings, because showing other expressions was dangerous or punished in some way: because it was fit in or don’t fit in and that’s the difference between having your house burnt down and being tolerated, between getting her food or having her questions answered and being yelled at to shut up… Because all her life she’s been surviving in hostile social environments and at the mercy of others, but unlike Kabru she doesn’t become a people pleaser but becomes very self-reliant and wary of socializing.

So she nitpicks and nitpicks and nags, because she’s worried. Because flaws are dangerous. So she has a hard time smiling and laughing, because it’s dangerous to allow yourself to feel safe in being authentic.

It would be nice…

Is my red, red enough? I'm waiting for your teeth at my throat. It’s only good manners. -Stephanie Valente 

[lu-is-not-ok]

two in one theory... i am listening very intently if you ever feel up to share it!!

Alright, so this is gonna be... as close to an Abridged explanation of the theory as I can make, because if I went off on everything about it I would end up writing a whole dissertation or five hour video essay script on this shit.

There are gonna be three main sections to this post - Hong Lu's Daiyuisms, Hong Lu's Themes of Identity and how that connects to the concept of Two in One, and the Daiyu-Baoyu theory itself.

Strap in folks.

Hong Lu's Daiyuisms

If you know anything about my theories in the earlier days of Limbus, you might know that I'm one of the very few people who was convinced Hong Lu is actually Daiyu, due to some evidence I found personally compelling. This has not changed, as we've only gotten just as much extra evidence to this as we have to him being Baoyu. So let me just speedrun through some of these points.

The Fucking Jade Eye

Ok hear me out. This is maybe the least important piece of evidence but I can never stop thinking about it. Hong Lu's jade eye? Not actually fully blue! If you look closely on most of his sprites, you can see that he actually has sectoral heterochromia, meaning his jade eye is both blue and black.

Daiyu's name, quite literally, translates to blue-black jade.

Now, you could claim that this is merely meant to be an easter egg reference to her, but... is that really Project Moon's style? After all, when people speculated on Don Quixote being Sancho or a Bloodfiend partially based on her appearance all the way back since near launch, they turned out to be right.

Hong Lu's Father

As of now, there is only one instance of Hong Lu referencing his Father in Limbus, and it's a voiceline from his Base Identity:

Now, if you know anything about DOTRC, this should already be raising some flags, because if Hong Lu was just Baoyu, he would not fucking talk like that about his Father.

In the book, Baoyu is consistently shown to be afraid of his Father, for a good reason mind you, as he's his main abuser. Baoyu would not be looking forward to introducing his friends to that man.

Even if Hong Lu was trying to downplay the abuse he's recieved, this would still not fit his pattern of behavior. When topics that genuinely bother Hong Lu come up, such as what could make him distort or how rich people would enjoy gifts made of humans, he immediately pivots and tries to avoid the topic at all cost. He would not bring up his main abuser in such a lighthearted manner, he would avoid bringing him up at all cost.

However, there is a character in DOTRC which does in fact have a more positive relationship to her Father, and would likely be the one with an opinion such as that - Daiyu. Daiyu loves her Father, and when he dies she completely disappears from the story for a bit to attend his funeral. If there was anyone who would be excited to introduce their friends to their Father, it'd be Daiyu.

Lasso Hong Lu's Corrosion

I made a whole seperate post about this, but I might as well mention it here as well for the sake of completion. The design choices made for Hong Lu which are missing for Faust are very, very Daiyu-coded.

For one, not only does Hong Lu completely turn into a flower, unlike Faust, his horse also gains a flower in its mouth. For those whose knowledge of DOTRC is zero to none, Daiyu is a reincarnation of a Flower given sentience due to being watered by the Jade. I don't think I have to be the one to connect the dots between those two pieces of info for you.

The second is how the halters become a noose for Hong Lu. This, too, is a very Daiyu thing - Rose Hunter as an Abnormality represents the inability to escape one's fate, and Daiyu's fate is to die - the Jia Family arranging a marriage between Baoyu and Baochai leads to Daiyu falling deathly ill, which in itself could be considered a part of her repaying her Debt of Tears - the debt she swore to repay to the Jade/Baoyu when she was still a Flower.

The hilarity of the fact that this E.G.O came out in the same update as Hong Lu being called Baoyu in-story is not lost on me.

Rose Sign Abnormality Log

The third Log for Rose Sign ends in a very peculiar way.

There's multiple ways one can tie Hong Lu's odd reluctance to talk about flowers and the petals. One is the obvious "he's being reminded of Daiyu because she was a Flower" connection, but there's another one.

One of the most commonly potrayed images of Daiyu relates to a scene in DOTRC where she buries fallen flower petals, weeping for and lamenting the mortality of the flowers and herself. Hong Lu's reaction here to his fellow Sinners being reduced to nothing but petals upon Rose Sign's death feels like a notable parallel to Daiyu's flower burial scene.

Like literally everything about Kurokumo Hong Lu

The title for this is a bit of an exaggeration, but at the same time. I'm serious. Kurokumo Hong Lu is perhaps the most Daiyu Identity out of all the Hong Lu Identities we have, and the way he is designed to stand out among them further makes me go insane.

Kurokumo Hong Lu's most defining trait is his attitude - he often complains about his position and how authority treats him, though he doesn't really act out against them in any major way outside of making snarky or sarcastic remarks.

This is, frankly, an extremely Daiyu thing to do. Daiyu is one of the few characters who audibly complains about her treatment in the household. For example she complains about not being given as many opportunities to show off her poetry skills as her male peers are, and she recognises how, when all the girls in the family are given flowers, she's the last one to recieve them and thus is stripped of the ability to pick, being only given the leftovers.

Then there's the whole. Everything about Kurokumo Hong Lu's visual design. Because once you realize just how Daiyu-like the Identity is, you realize just how weird he is compared to other Hong Lu Identities. I mean just look how he compares to his other Identities.

He's the only Hong Lu Identity with a blue tint to his hair in the combat sprite rather than the usual purple.

He's the only Hong Lu Identity whose hairtie is a ribbon rather than a jade ring (Liu Hong Lu technically has the ribbon in his post-uptie art, but he doesn't have it in his combat sprite so I'm not counting him).

He's the only Hong Lu Identity to not be smiling in his combat sprites.

And he's the only Hong Lu Identity (and one of only four Identities in the game) whose Idle sprite has its body facing away from the opponent rather than facing towards them.

All of those combine to make him stand out like a sore thumb in a Hong Lu Identity lineup in a way that makes it feel intentional, especially since he's also the only Hong Lu Identity with that kind of notable attitude towards authority. Other Hong Lu Identities are either obedient, don't express any opinion, or just straight up are the authority.

The Baoyu reveal is framed in a very weird way

This is, admittedly, less of a Daiyuism and more of a not-Baoyuism, but I thought it'd be important to mention nonetheless.

There are a lot of things about Canto 7's reveal of Hong Lu's name being Baoyu that are very strange, especially compared to how the Canto frames Don Quixote's own reveal of actually being Sancho.

For one, the timing itself - why is such an important piece of info being revealed so early? Again, compare to Donqui - she was revealed to be a Bloodfiend in the Intervallo right before Canto 7, and the Sancho reveal only came in the second half of the Canto.

For two, the framing - Donqui's reveals are treated as what they are, Major Reveals. The Baoyu reveal on the other hand happens in a single off-handed line, with nobody reacting to it in any way. Neither Hong Lu nor the other Sinners seem to hear it after all.

And mind you, it's not like Limbus is opposed to giving us important information in off-handed lines - far from it in fact. Project Moon loves shoving little bits of foreshadowing and reveals you don't realize are reveals until way later in these kinds of off-handed lines. But the way those lines are treated is still very different to how the Baoyu reveal is treated.

Usually, when there's foreshadowing in off-handed lines, it's usually either vague enough to be something a character could say regardless of context (see Yi Sang getting hung up on the Sedatives bit in Canto 2 or Ishmael's comment about Syndicates pretending to be Families foreshadowing her own history with the Middle via Queequeg) or something that is in the middle of a scene that distracts from what is actually being said (like Hong Lu's distortion foreshadowing being in the middle of an important infodump or most of everything in Canto 2 being surrounded by a comedic tone).

None of this is present for the Baoyu reveal. There's nothing to distract you from this information, as the scene is already focused on discussing Hong Lu, meaning you're already likely to be paying attention to what is being said about him. There's also no vagueness about it, there's no way you can brush it off since not only are Wei and Xichun newly introduced characters, but it's a whole ass clearcut namedrop.

The only way I can justify that reveal being there in the form it takes is that it in itself is the distraction. Think about it. Didn't I point it out earlier that this reveal came in the same update as the E.G.O with an extremely Daiyu-coded corrosion design? Wouldn't it make sense for that reveal to be there to lower your guard, make you think you resolved that mystery, only to later on reveal it wasn't the whole story after all?

Hong Lu's Themes of Identity

So this section is a bit more vague than the Daiyuism section, because Hong Lu is the type of guy to just Say Shit all the time. It's basically just. Anything that I find relevant to the idea of Hong Lu's Identity being more complex than him just being a random guy using a pseudonym, with some (but maybe not all) of them directly tying to the idea of Two in One.

"Which one is the real you?"

There are currently two seperate scenes where Hong Lu muses on the idea of someone's identity being in some way vague or obscured.

Is Dante the person or the clock? Is the dreamer the one in the dream or the one who wakes from it? Which you is the real you? Does it even matter if that you will flutter away in the end?

This idea of there being one true self. That even if there are two, there is only one of them that is actually you. Curious, right?

Face-changing dance

During the Canto 2 scene where everyone gives their reasons for whether or not they'd be a good pick for being the one to dance, Hong Lu says this.

Bian lian is a kind of dance literally translated as "face-changing". It involves rapid changes between various masks and make-up to represent different emotions or characters.

Now, it's no secret that Hong Lu is a great actor, as we see in Canto 4, and Canto 7 shows how the comparison to theatre and actors can be used to symbolize one's performance of identity, as it does for Sancho and her Don Quixote persona.

Mind you, this reveal comes in the same scene as Sinclair's dance invoking the image of a bonfire burning all through the night according to the Mariachis, a clear foreshadowing to Canto 3 and the Literal burning down of Sinclair's home.

Hong Lu knowing bian lian could be further foreshadowing to his own skills in deception, and how he too is a sort of actor, not unlike Don Quixote. On the other hand however, it could also be a more literal foreshadowing, that he (Baoyu) Quite Literally changed his face. We won't know until Canto 8, but it is an option you know.

The HamHamPangPang dish(es)

For those who don't know, here is a list of the Sinner-themed dishes that were available at HamHamPangPang.

Now, chances are, not all of them have deep meanings. I don't think there's much of a deep meaning to Heathcliff and Ishmael's dishes, I think PJM just legit don't know much about British/American cuisine so they just picked something recogniseable.

However, not all of them are meaningless picks either. Ryoshu, likely a mother, has a meal literally called "parent-and-child donburi". Don Quixote, a Bloodfiend, has a garlic-based dish. These were clearly done on purpose.

So, what does it say that Hong Lu's dish is actually two different dishes? That he's the only one whose dish is two different dishes? And it's not like the two are in some way inherently connected, since they're of completely different cuisines. Japchae is a Korean dish, not Chinese like the Mandarin rolls.

And just in case you weren't convinced that Hong Lu's choice of dishes is purposeful - another name for Mandarin rolls is flower buns, and one of the special occasions japchae is commonly served for is weddings. If you had read through the Daiyuisms section and somehow have no idea what the significance of that is, I don't know what to tell you.

The Daiyu-Baoyu Theory (finally)

So. I gave some evidence for why I think Hong Lu could still be Daiyu despite being revealed as Baoyu. I gave some evidence for why I think Hong Lu could be a Two in One deal, or that at the very least there's something more complex going on with his identity. But let's discuss the theory itself, how it would recontextualize certain things, and why I think it's an extremely fitting an thematically resonant direction for Hong Lu's Canto to go in.

The Theory

Here's what I speculate is going on.

Daiyu, just like in DOTRC, is someone who was taken in into the Jia Household rather than born in it, and who strongly connected with Baoyu upon meeting him. The two would end up forming a bond strong enough that they would be willing to die for one another (or, if they're in particularly argumentative moods, to kill themselves just to force the other to have to live a long life grieving over them - this is an actual argument they have in DOTRC and I pray to god this is adapted into Limbus because it's too fucking funny).

At some point, Baoyu either dies or is brought to near death, likely through the same circumstances as in DOTRC - being beaten by his Father. To save him, his memories and consciousness would be transferred to his eye, a process not dissimilar to the one Xichun brings up in Canto 7, and implanted into Daiyu's body, causing them to become a vessel for Baoyu. This would be how Hong Lu as he is now is created.

All of the above is the main basis for this theory. Everything else that I might speculate about, such as the exact nature of the two's relationship, Daiyu's more exact background and personality, how their pre-reincarnation lives could be adapted - all of those are things that are purely speculative and ones that I don't really expect to be actually fulfilled. The only bits that I am sure are likely to be true is what I laid out above.

So... what does it all mean for the future? I'm glad you asked!

The Recontextualization

Here's a collection of just a couple of things that Hong Lu has said or is depicted as that would be heavily recontextualized if this theory ends up being true.

Hong Lu surviving despite claiming he didn't fight back when his siblings first tried to kill him: With the context that he used to be two seperate people, the answer to how he survived is made very simple. Baoyu is the one who wasn't fighting back. Daiyu, however, could have still protected him in turn.

The red ribbon on Hong Lu's weapon: There is only one other Sinner who has a similar decoration on their weapon - Ryoshu, who also has a red ribbon on her sword, which could be easily connected to Yuzuki and her death. With the context of Hong Lu being Baoyu occupying Daiyu's body and thus effectively rendering their self non-existent, the red ribbon could be a parallel symbol - a symbol of Daiyu and their 'death'.

How Hong Lu treats his weapon in his base E.G.O: The way Hong Lu holds his weapon in the illustration is more like he's cradling another person. This could be a representation of how he feels about Daiyu's situation. Likewise, in the attack animation, he's not really attacking with the weapon itself, is he? He's simply using it to direct a ribbon (which in itself is missing in the illustration), the part that is actually the attack. If the weapon in the base E.G.O represents Daiyu, this could be a parallel to how Baoyu feels like he's merely directing Daiyu's body to attack, rather than being the one actually attacking.

The duality of Hong Lu IDs: There is a notable pattern among Hong Lu IDs, and that is the focus on his attitude to violence. When he's in a situation where he's obedient towards his Family, he's either uninterested in violence, bored of it, or otherwise given no other choice but to use it as a reprieve from boredom. However, when he's in a situation where he's disconnected from his Family or otherwise questioning the status quo, he's shown to not only be much more aggressive and violent, but to outright enjoy it. With the context of Hong Lu being composed of two people, this duality could represent each of his components - the obedient and violence-averse being more Baoyu-like, while the questioning and violence-favoring being more Daiyu-like.

So, there's a bunch of stuff that would be given new meaning under the premise of this theory being true. But now, what about the future? What would this theory mean for the themes and ending of Canto 8?

The Resolution

I believe this is how the Daiyu-Baoyu theory will affect Canto 8.

At some point, whether before or during the Canto, it will be revealed that Hong Lu is both Daiyu and Baoyu. There will be an attempt to seperate the two, perhaps to implant Baoyu into a more fitting, more Jia Family-approved Vessel. Perhaps because the 'arranged marriage' from DOTRC could be adapted into something more... let's say Fear and Hunger kind of marriage rather than traditional marriage.

This will leave Hong Lu to be returned to their state as Daiyu, who will be revealed to be a very different person to what the Sinners knew Hong Lu as. There is a non-zero chance that Daiyu will be unable to hear Dante or be revived by them due to the one who signed the contract being Baoyu, and so they could end up acting as an uncontrollable ally unit not unlike Xichun in Canto 7.

The climax would then be Daiyu and Baoyu reuniting and being unwilling to part with each other again, even for the sake of returning to being the fake persona that is Hong Lu, leading to a potential duo boss fight/distortion boss fight/duo distortion boss fight.

The ending would be the two of them deciding to embrace their new identity as Hong Lu and truly becoming one, discarding their pasts and the selves that had been forced on them by the Jia Family. This ending would have a twofold meaning regarding how it connects to the DOTRC adaptation.

One - it would be a direct parallel to the ending of DOTRC where Baoyu leaves to become a monk. By becoming Hong Lu and discaring his previous identities, he'd be leaving behind the earthly attachments inherent to being Baoyu and Daiyu and become spiritually whole.

Two - it would be a reflection of the major theme of DOTRC, that being "Truth becomes fiction when the fiction's true. Real becomes not-real when the unreal's real." Hong Lu, as a person, is a 'fake' persona used by the 'real' Baoyu and Daiyu. However, by discarding those two identities and deciding to just be Hong Lu, the fiction of his existence becomes the truth, while his former real selves become not real.

Conclusion?

I could honestly just keep going with this post, but I think I'm going to stop myself here before I'm forced to find out what tumblr's character limit on posts is. Believe me, I was trying to be brief, and still this post is. This fucking long.

I hope this explains why this theory has been the subject of my brainrot for the past however long, and why I feel like it's surprisingly plausible despite being as deranged as it is.

Godspeed and godbless, I have classes tomorrow and I'm spending my time on this.