#also people love to be like ‘well he helped rape jeyne’ no he did not you fucking idiot

[atopvisenyashill]

love to see “theon isn’t on a redemption arc” takes bc “what has he done to be better” firstly bc it massively undersells the way he helps jeyne & his dwelling on the miller’s wife & her boys, kyra, and the people of Winterfell throughout adwd but secondly it’s just a very funny criticism bc we’ve still got at minimum two thousand pages left in this series, of COURSE he hasn’t fully redeemed himself yet, there’s like a third of the story yet to go!

[jonquildove]

toywithteats:

“I have missed you, I have missed you so much, you have no idea what has happened in all of these years. ” she clung to Sansa like a lifeline. She did not mean to break her heart. She had been held prisoner with Theon, whom Ramsay had named Reek, as he smelled of piss. He had suffered a lot from having his manhood cut off, she could sense, yet he seemed scared and shaken more than anything. He is still wearing his tunic and brown pants, when he arrived in Winterfell with his ironborn to lay it to siege, shaking his head when Roose said if he wanted new clothes of a lord. He did not think Ramsay would take too kindly to that, and he was Reek now, he must remember his name. She thought Ramsay a monster, as she remembered her courtesies, and had to sleep with him, she dressed in the colours of Stark. They had found her captive in a prison for what seemed a long time, a man saying they had not realised she was Arya straight away, until closer inspection, otherwise they would have brought her to the capital much sooner. Yet Theon thought Ramsay his saviour in some strange way, as well as captor. As they spent their days together, when he or her was not doing their role of wife or slave, she crying with her hands clasped over her face to ease the sound, he had said in some of his distanced ramblings, patting a dog he slept with in the stables, that his prince had rescued him from being tied and tortured at the cross. They had escaped, galloping across the fields on a horse, as well as he killing the men who had tried to rape him. He had been Ramsay’s slave, suffering horrifying torture, yet Rams had said he was loved and a good slave and friend. Needing him around as he was good company, he saying for Reek to rest and wear lambswool over his tunic and pants. Balon his father did not think him a man any more, yet Asha, his sister finally rescued them, finding a way to storm the castle. She had an army of soldiers with her, her father saying he would not waste his men to someone who was a cripple and could not give him heirs nor strong in mind or body any more to fight and lead battles. She had men that chose to fight on her side though, she befriending and helping out the people in the sea and staying at the Iron Islands. She and them then went on in defeating the flayed men of the dreadfort. “Sansa….” she whispered the name, leaning into her shoulder.

Sansa lifted her head from Jeyne’s shoulder in surprise and emotion. She had wondered for ages, where her friend Jeyne had went, after many of Sansa’s father’s men were slain. She also recalled wondering where Vayon had been and drawing the conclusion that he must be dead. “I have missed you too.” “—What happened…please tell me?” Upon feeling Jeyne cling to her, and hearing her name, Sansa’s eyes started to well up with tears. She swallowed, not prepared to hear what terrible fate her friend must have suffered. Why are the gods so cruel to kind souls? Too many, oh too many people I care about… Did she suffer, feel the weight of how terrible this world truly was? Have fairytales shatter before her, revealing it all to be false? She found Jeyne’s hand, and clutched it tightly in hopes that it would bring her comfort.

[goodqueenaly]

You post on Cersei's walk in ADWD made me realize GRRM is so good at pulling the rug out from readers in moments of revenge! Besides her walk, the reader wants Joffrey to be punished for his behavior for 3 books, yet his death is not a moment of victory, but asks the question 'Are we celebrating the painful murder of a 13 yo?" We want Catelyn to take revenge on the Freys badly in ASOS, yet raises the question 'What did a mentally disabled child do to deserve his throat slit besides be a Frey"?

(Revenge ask part 2) Even in the future, I think Daenerys possibly blowing up King's Landing will raise the same sort of questions. The reader wants Dany to win! To destroy Cersei and destroy Aegon and claim her throne, yet is that worth the death of thousands of innocent civilians (even if I think it will be accidental). I love that GRRM never lets the reader feel comfortable in revenge, but make the reader see that revenge is just the perpetuation of violence

Yeah, GRRM's spoken a bit about this point before, specifically in the context of Joffrey's death:

I also tried to provide a certain moment of pathos with the death [i.e. of Joffrey]. I mean, Joffrey, as monstrous as he is — and certainly he’s just as monstrous in the books as he is in the TV show, and Jack has brought some incredible acting chops to the role that somehow makes him even more loathsome than he is on the page — but Joffrey in the books is still a 13-year-old kid. And there’s kind of a moment there where he knows that he’s dying and he can’t get a breath and he’s kind of looking at Tyrion and at his mother and at the other people in the hall with just terror and appeal in his eyes—you know, “Help me mommy, I’m dying.” And in that moment, I think even Tyrion sees a 13-year-old boy dying before him. So I didn’t want it to be entirely, “Hey-ho, the witch is dead.” I wanted the impact of the death to still strike home on to perhaps more complex feelings on the part of the audience, not necessarily just cheering.

I think Joffrey is a classic 13-year-old bully. Do you know many 13-year-old kids you’d like to give absolute power to? There’s a cruelty in children, especially children of a certain age, that you see in junior high and middle school. We don’t want 13-year-old bullies to be put to death. We probably do when we’re their 13-year-old victims, but they grow up and most of them grow out of it, and sometimes people do regret their actions. But Joffrey will never get that chance, so we don’t know what he would have become. Probably nothing good, but still… [sic]

What GRRM consistently does, and I think often (though not always) very well, is take characters who are genuinely bad people and/or have done genuinely bad things and force the reader to question the extent to which the reader wants that character to be horribly punished. Joffrey's assassination at his wedding does not erase the fact that he was a sadistic, cruel, violent person who relished the idea of beating and raping Sansa; rather, it forces the reader to watch as this child is being suffocated in front of his own mother due to the political machinations of the family he just married into (specifically so that his bride can marry his tractable younger brother instead). Theon ordered or oversaw people he knew and had grown up with being raped and murdered and himself ordered the murders of two young boys to cover up his inability to put Bran and Rickon to death; however, his horrific torture as revealed in ADWD makes readers seriously consider whether that was the appropriate punishment for him. Even smaller-scale characters like Marillion or Jeyne Poole become part of this larger thematic question: it's very understandable to dislike, indeed perhaps even hate Marillion for trying to rape Sansa or Jeyne for meanly teasing Arya, but is the appropriate punishment for the former to have been beaten, blinded, and eventually driven to suicide (for a crime he didn't commit!) and for the latter to have been sold into sex slavery, whipped, and raped repeatedly? Indeed, the very existence of Lady Stoneheart as a Nemesis-like figure motivated by the pursuit of vengeance forces readers to question when, if ever, the pursuit of vengeance goes too far: when Lady Stoneheart wants to "feed the crows, like they did at the Red Wedding" with "Freys and Boltons ... as many as she likes", there will be no quarter given to anyone thought to be associated with the perpetrators of the crime, whether or not they were themselves guilty (as we see so painfully with Brienne, Podrick, and Hyle).

(For clarification, I don't class Daenerys' (I think) likely unintentional destruction of King's Landing as part of a pursuit of vengeance - Daenerys genuinely believes that as the last (known) legitimate male-line dynast of House Targaryen, the Iron Throne is rightfully hers, and if she learns or believes that our Aegon is not her brother's son but an impostor, then she has grounds for thinking of him as a usurper. Which is not to say the point above is entirely wrong - I think there will be a lot of sober reflection on the parts of both Daenerys and the reader in the aftermath of the psuedo-nuclear devastation of the capital, but more I think along the lines of Daenerys feeling a tremendous amount of guilt for killing so many innocents and wondering whether her destiny is to cause destruction.)

I'm not saying GRRM has always absolutely demonized the desire for vengeance; after all, he had his favorite mystical truthsayer Old Nan declare that "[a] man has a right to vengeance" (in specifying that the Rat Cook was not punished because he had murdered the sons of the king who had wronged him), he depicted the death of the monstrous Amory Lorch as a justified ending for his crimes against Yoren and Arya, he clearly portrayed Oberyn as a dashing and sympathetic figure whose near-defeat of the Mountain was a high point of triumph against the Lannister regime. Nor am I saying he has always handled it perfectly, either with in-universe desire for revenge (it remains to be seen what eventually happens with the plot of Doran's quest for vengeance) or characters the readers may want revenge upon (like the utterly clumsy handling of the Saera story in F&B). But I think it's fair to say that GRRM does not personally believe in a continued cycle of violence and that he likes readers to face the often uncomfortable nature of wanting characters to be punished, especially in ways that do not correspond with the bad acts of those characters.

[hellsbellschime]

I always love your takes on Dany because I think you explain her really well and was wondering what you think of this take by a Dany stan. It's got some uh... interesting ideas. Sorry too because it's quite long

The main difference in between Daenerys' political arc, and that of other "heroes" and their Houses is that Dany's is not currently a political arc relegated to fighting for Targaryen grievances and wins. Meanwhile, all other main House representatives in the narrative (Starks, Martells, Lannisters, Greyjoys, Tullys, Tyrells, Baratheons) are generally fighting precisely for nothing else but their own (and their Houses') grievances and wins.

That's where the double standards come in-

+ Daenerys is harshly and minutely judged for the quality of her every act, upon every single person in her narrative, bc her arc involves her aim to hold responsibility over the wellness of all these people.

+ Everyone else who are part of the Great Houses however are merely judged as per how they perform towards the wellness of their own Houses, because that's all they aim to perform for.

One girl dies in an act Dany is not directly involved in, particularly in intention, and the discussions are endless as per the repercussions and outrage of the occurrence. Because Daenerys took it upon herself to defend all these people, and this seems like a failure, particularlyin her POV: one girl with no other importance in the story and a few lines, among maybe millions. One girl. Hazea.

Robb Stark and his men, on the other hand, will kill, maim and rape thousands, or even tens of unnamed thousands, and there is no outrage; rarely discussed repercussions. Because Robb's political arc is not about protecting nameless people. Not about caring for the fate of one-liner non-noble characters. His arc is about the grievances of House Stark. About Ned. Readers judge him upon how close he gets to getting revenge on Tywin and Jofrrey, about how well/or bad he leads wars, not about what kind of leader he is to people, what kind of 'monster' he is to enemy commonfolk. The relevance of his eventual loss is not about the fate of his people, or enemy people, either. It's about his personal tragedy. It's about the tragedy of the remaining Starks.

There is outrage for Daenerys even killing her (leader) enemies. For everyone else, it's an undisputed aim.

Daenerys is even already judged for the possibility of a future where she will anything that concerns her actually being Daenerys of House Targaryen in Westeros. The possibility that any Westerosi people might die, while hundreds of thousands may have been dying so far at the hands of other Great Houses (directly and indirectly), and it's mostly irrelevant for them. But for Daenerys that judgement is everything. She is looked through the lense of "if she's a Queen she's meant to protect them, not kill them" tho she has not yet been granted that status, while those who have had the status of Kings, Queens and Lords of Westeros in the meantime have been responsible for the deaths of their own people all of this time.

No noble Northener really cares for a Jeyne Poole, least of all for a Hazea.

Daenerys alone is (harshly) judged as a leader of people, because that's her current actual arc. She is not Daenerys of House Targaryen currently, in a real sense, not really. Her family and House don't really matter where she is now, and to what she is doing.

Almost every other noble character (and I only say almost to partly exclude those not taking particular part in politics) is given the leniency of the tragic MC in a tragic family drama biopic. ALL THEY ARE IS X PERSON OF HOUSE Y. And in most cases nothing else matter. - end post

Well, obviously no hate to this person whoever they are and I don't necessarily think it's a bad take just because I disagree with it. I particularly DO agree on things like Jeyne Poole, and I think that is GRRM very intentionally trying to point out some huge hypocrisies with everyone in the story, even the "good guys", because it is incredibly unfair that no one will come to save Jeyne Poole while a fuckton of people will come to save "Arya Stark" just because they cared about Ned.

But where I don't agree is on that aspect in particular. Because it's not about winning or airing grievances for these great houses, a lot of their actions are largely driven by the fact that they simply care deeply about the other people who are involved in the war now or who have been hurt or killed in the past wars, and that is largely what is motivating many of them to do what they do. And in even more intense cases, they're going to war because they are in extremely immediate danger.

This is true for both villains and heroes, I mean Robb and Cat go to war against the Lannisters because there is an immediately mortal threat to their entire family, and even though Cersei and the rest of the Lannisters are clearly villains, their actions are also driven by an immediate mortal danger that their family is facing. And it's safe to say, a huge portion of what happened in the WOT5K would never have even occurred if a lot of these people weren't put in a position of "HOLY SHIT me or someone I love is about to die RIGHT NOW if I don't do something so I better fucking do something".

I feel like the story makes it clear that the wars that they are fighting are very pointless and brutal anyway. I mean FFS, GRRM does not accidentally traumatize the shit out of Arya by putting her in a commoner's position in a war that is supposedly being fought in her name. So I actually agree with the writer in the sense that there is a double standard when it comes to Dany vs. everyone else, but I feel like the double standard is valid because all of these characters for better or worse have a dog in this fight. Whatever they've done is incredibly personal and therefore pretty irrational for them.

And the fact that the men are rallying to save Arya Stark when they wouldn't rally to save a thousand Jeyne Pooles is very telling and demonstrates that they are extremely hypocritical, but it's also telling because they're not fighting for the "heir to House Stark". They repeatedly talk about how they're fighting for Ned's girl. It has very little to do with her nobility and power and a great deal to do with how these people feel about Ned not as a Stark, but just as a person that they knew and cared for who was horribly wronged.

So while I agree and recognize that a ton of the main characters have done the wrong things, often for the wrong reasons, it's personal, it's emotional, and it's irrational. And in a lot of cases it is driven by something as simple and pure as "I am about to die if I don't do something so I'm doing the first thing I fucking think of to get out of it". Even for the houses who initially got involved as a power play, it has become very much about the people that they care about and their own feelings rather than strategy and house advancement.

That doesn't magically make it moral, but it does make it hugely distinct from what Daenerys is doing. Because Daenerys doesn't have a dog in this fight at all. She has absolutely no personal ties to Westeros or anyone in it, and she is not in any danger from anyone in Westeros. Literally the only Westerosi person who has ever even really tried to kill her is a man she doesn't know and is already dead, and the only Targaryen she ever knew who even had a connection to Westeros was someone she hated who abused her horrifically and who is also already dead.

Ergo, Dany is a villain because she literally has no personal or political justification for the massive war that she's going to bring to Westeros. She is going to leave the place she's in that is a complete mess and desperately needs help even more than it did after her intervention, and she's going to invade a place that she doesn't care about beyond some imaginary concept she has about it in her head, has no connection to, has no need for her, and poses no threat to her.

She's not fighting for anything besides herself and her own sense of entitlement over Westeros. She's more harshly judged for her actions because they are completely driven by her own whims and desires and nothing more. She has the opportunity to think things through and plan and get advice and actually figure out the best way to do things, whereas every character in Westeros is reacting to something very immediate that they don't have a lot of time to consider and that is deeply emotional for them. But still, she doesn't even do that.

She's judged for all of the mistakes she makes because they're unnecessary and foreseeable mistakes. And, if she actually just waited and tried to figure out what to do instead of basically throwing herself into situations where she's suddenly overthrowing governments and ruling hundreds of thousands of people without a plan or any governing experience, then a lot of the bad things that have happened as a result of her campaign wouldn't have happened.

And obviously, I think this is a very intentional move on GRRM's part. I think he establishes that war is pointless and often outrageously hypocritical with the WOT5K, but there's a reason he gave Dany no one she loves and no one who needs her help and no one who poses a threat to her in Westeros. She's going to bring war to an already war-ravaged continent simply because she feels like it should belong to her.

That is drastically different than Robb going to war because his father has been falsely charged with treason or Cersei murdering Robert because he will try to murder her children if he finds out they're not his. And while all of the wars in ASOIAF are terrible and purposeless in the end, GRRM is going very far out of his way to demonstrate that Dany has literally zero justification or even explanation for why she acts the way she does beyond her belief in her own super-special entitlement.

[the-king-andthe-lionheart]

A Dream is a Wish Your Heart Makes - Arya Stark and her Cinderella Motifs

In A Song of Ice and Fire, GRRM often uses fairy tale motifs to help tell a character’s story.  Sometimes this motif spans all throughout the characters arc while other times it will only be used for one or two scenes, or anywhere in between.  And often one character can have several fairy tale motifs at different times in their arcs or even running concurrently.  For Arya, she has quite a few fairy tale motifs in her arc, but for now I’m going to focus on her Cinderella motifs that are mainly prevalent in A Clash of Kings but do show up at other times all throughout her arc as well. I’m going to focus primarily on Arya’s A Clash of Kings arc, but we will be stopping by A Storm of Swords and A Feast for Crows a few times too.  And I am going to use several versions of the retellings of Cinderella, including the Disney version, but only the 1950 original and none of its sequels.  I also want to note that not all the parallels are obvious due to things being more metaphorical or symbolic, while other times being whatever subversion that tickled GRRM’s fancy at the time.

There are many common aspects across the board when it comes to Cinderella retellings.  Often it entails the heroine losing one or both of her parents, being oppressed by her abusive stepmother and stepsisters and being forced into menial, backbreaking labor that leaves the heroine dirty and often covered in ashes.  It usually entails a magical guardian who helps the heroine, magical transformations, ballgowns and a ball where she falls in love with either a Prince or a King. An identifying item is also involved, usually a slipper made of gold or glass, where one of the pair is lost when the heroine is running from her beloved.  And the Prince/King almost always searches the realm for the woman that identifying item belongs to, and when he finds the heroine they usually marry.

Written out like that it’s hard to believe that this is a motif used for Arya.  After all she’s not in the position to be going to balls and she’s just a child so it seems unlikely at the time she’s at Harrenhal she’s going to fall in love.  However, this motif appears all throughout her arc in various and creative and subversive and repetitive ways, and motifs don’t have to be all or none and they don’t have to be in the order the original stories were laid out.  A lot of people also don’t like the idea that Arya has an actual Disney Princess motif in her story because she’s a “tomboy”, but the fact is that Arya is a Princess at the time she’s at Harrenhal, it’s even explicitly stated in Arya X ACOK, whether people acknowledge it or not, where a lot of these motifs take place.  I know some people will be dismissive of this and think I’m reaching, but I hope upon reading this I’ll have convinced you of this motif being present. :)

Step-Mother and Step-Sisters

Some of the two most common features in any variant of Cinderella is the “Persecuted Heroine” and the “Female Persecutor”.  Often this manifests as the wicked stepmother and the evil step-sisters, but in some versions a stepmother does not appear, and it’s the heroine’s older sisters who confine her to the kitchens instead.  In the opera, La Cenerentola, Gioachino Rossini inverted the gender roles where the heroine Cenerentola is oppressed by her stepfather.  And in some retellings at least one of the step siblings is somewhat kind to the heroine even.  We symbolically see these archetypes many times in Arya’s narrative with various types of inversions.

When we enter ACOK, we find a dirty and disguised Arya traveling with Yoren and the Night’s Watch recruits, having just lost her father (a subversion of the prevalent theme of Cinderella losing her mother very young).  She is also being bullied by two older boys, Lommy and Hot Pie:

At Winterfell they [Sansa and Jeyne] had called her “Arya Horseface” and she’d thought nothing could be worse, but that was before the orphan boy Lommy Greenhands had named her “Lumpyhead.” - Arya I ACOK

That wasn’t the hardest part at all; Lommy Greenhands and Hot Pie were the hardest part. - Arya I ACOK

“Look at that sword Lumpyhead’s got there,” Lommy said one morning […] “Where’s a gutter rat like Lumpyhead get him a sword?”

[. . .]

“Maybe he’s a little squire,” Hot Pie put in. […] “Some lordy lord’s little squire boy, that’s it.”

“He ain’t no squire, look at him.  I bet that’s not even a real sword.  I bet it’s just some play sword made of tin.”

Arya hated them making fun of Needle.  “It’s castle-forged steel, you stupid,” she snapped, turning in the saddle to glare at them, “and you better shut your mouth.”

The orphan boys hooted.  “Where’d you get a blade like that, Lumpyface?” Hot Pie wanted to know.

“Lumpyhead,” corrected Lommy.  He prob’ly stole it.”

“I did not!” she shouted.  Jon Snow had given her Needle.  Maybe she had to let them call her Lumpyhead, but she wasn’t going to let them call Jon a thief.

“If he stole it, we could take it off him,” said Hot Pie.  “It’s not his anyhow.  I could use me a sword like that.”

Lommy egged him on.  “Go on, take it off him, I dare you.”

Hot Pie kicked his donkey, riding closer.  “Hey, Lumpyface, you gimme that sword.” […] “You don’t know how to use it.”

[. . .]

“Look at him,” brayed Lommy Greenhands.  “I bet he’s going to cry now.  You want to cry, Lumpyhead?” – Arya I ACOK

In the first two quotes we have Arya likening the behavior of Hot Pie and Lommy to that of Jeyne Poole and Sansa. In AGOT, Sansa and Jeyne took on the “evil step-sister” archetype (and before anybody attacks me, I don’t think these two are actually “evil”, just children who think it’s okay to bully someone who is different from them), but now we are shown that this archetype has temporarily shifted onto Lommy and Hot Pie, with some subversions.  These two are now male and they aren’t related to Arya in any way.  Some variants of the Cinderella story do portray male siblings mistreating the younger “Cinderella” sibling though.  One of the stories in One Thousand and One Nights depict a story called “Judar and his Brethren”, in which the main character is poisoned by his biological brothers in the end, depicting a rare tragic ending for this retelling. However, these subversions are completely fine because either way, they took on the role of the “bully” to Arya’s Cinderella archetype currently in the narrative.  

Furthermore, while Septa Mordane was the obvious “wicked stepmother” archetype to Arya’s Cinderella archetype in AGOT, I think arguably this has fallen to Cersei now (and the Lannister’s as a whole).  Cersei may not be present, but she is the reason why Arya is in the situation she is in right now.  After all, Cersei takes on the role of “Evil Queen” for Sansa and Jon (they both share Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs motifs) so I do think she is the metaphorical “wicked stepmother” in this equation regardless of the fact that Cersei isn’t anything remotely close to a stepmother to Arya in the narrative, but she fits the general archetype of “female persecutor” the most in the current situation.  For the case about Septa Mordane being a “wicked stepmother” archetype, I want to point to Cenerentola by Basile, in which the “wicked stepmother” started out as being the heroine’s governess, and Septa’s are the closest substitute to a governess in the universe of ASOIAF.

This isn’t the end to these archetypes being in play.  As the early chapters of ACOK go on we see the animosity between Lommy, Hot Pie, and Arya disappear to the point where they become allies and then friends. With this shift in dynamic we see the archetypes disappearing with some of these same characters taking on entirely new Cinderella archetypes, while the “wicked stepmother” and “evil step-sibling” archetypes move onto other characters as well.

At Harrenhal we are introduced to two wicked women who next take on the “evil step-sibling” archetype, Goodwife Harra and Goodwife Amabel.  These two even comment on Arya’s feet:

When Arya's turn came round, Goodwife Amabel clucked in dismay at the sight of her feet, while Goodwife Harra felt the callus on her fingers that long hours of practice with Needle had earned her. "Got those churning butter, I'll wager," she said. "Some farmer's whelp, are you? Well, never you mind, girl, you have a chance to win a higher place in this world if you work hard. If you won't work hard, you'll be beaten. And what do they call you?"

Arya dared not say her true name, but Arry was no good either, it was a boy’s name and they could see she was no boy.  “Weasel,” she said, naming the first girl she could think of.  “Lommy called me Weasel.”

“I can see why,” sniffed Goodwife Amabel.  “That hair is a fright and a nest for lice as well. We’ll have it off, and then you’re for the kitchens.”

“I’d sooner tend the horses.”  Arya liked horses, and maybe if she was in the stables she’d be able to steal one and escape.

Goodwife Harra slapped her so hard that her swollen lip broke open all over again.  “And keep that tongue to yourself or you’ll get worse.  No one asked your views.”

The blood in her mouth had a salty metal tang to it. Arya dropped her gaze and said nothing. If I still had Needle, she wouldn’t dare hit me, she thought sullenly.

“Lord Tywin and his knights have grooms and squires to tend their horses, they don’t need the likes of you,” Goodwife Amabel said. “The kitchens are snug and clean, and there’s always a warm fire to sleep by and plenty to eat.  You might have done well there, but I can see you’re not a clever girl.  Harra, I believe we should give this one to Weese.”

“If you think so, Amabel.”  They gave her a shift of grey roughspun wool and a pair of ill-fitting shoes and sent her off. – Arya VI ACOK

Later Goodwife Amabel even threatens to rape Arya:

Three Frey men-at-arms were using them that morning as Arya went to the well. She tried not to look, but she could hear the men laughing. The pail was very heavy once full. She was turning to bring it back to Kingspyre when Goodwife Amabel seized her arm. The water went sloshing over the side onto Amabel's legs. "You did that on purpose," the woman screeched.

"What do you want?" Arya squirmed in her grasp. Amabel had been half-crazed since they'd cut Harra's head off.

"See there?" Amabel pointed across the yard at Pia. "When this northman falls you'll be where she is."

"Let me go." She tried to wrench free, but Amabel only tightened her fingers.

"He will fall too, Harrenhal pulls them all down in the end. Lord Tywin's won now, he'll be marching back with all his power, and then it will be his turn to punish the disloyal. And don't think he won't know what you did!" The old woman laughed. "I may have a turn at you myself. Harra had an old broom, I'll save it for you. The handle's cracked and splintery—" - Arya X ACOK

Menial, Backbreaking Labor

When Arya is enslaved and forced into the oppressive walls of Harrenhal, she is forced to scrub floors and do other menial, backbreaking work from sunrise to sunset, just like Cinderella:

Weese used Arya to run messages, draw water, and fetch food, and sometimes to serve at table in the Barracks Hall above the armory, where the men-at-arms took their meals. But most of her work was cleaning. The ground floor of the Wailing Tower was given over to storerooms and granaries, and two floors above housed part of the garrison, but the upper stories had not been occupied for eighty years. Now Lord Tywin had commanded that they be made fit for habitation again. There were floors to be scrubbed, grime to be washed off windows, broken chairs and rotted beds to be carried off. The topmost story was infested with nests of the huge black bats that House Whent had used for its sigil, and there were rats in the cellars as well . . . and ghosts, some said, the spirits of Harren the Black and his sons. – Arya VII ACOK

She spent the rest of that day scrubbing steps inside the Wailing Tower. By evenfall her hands were raw and bleeding and her arms so sore they trembled when she lugged the pail back to the cellar. Too tired even for food, Arya begged Weese's pardons and crawled into her straw to sleep. – Arya VII ACOK

Magical Transformations and Mice

In Disney’s Cinderella, the fairy godmother transforms mice into different creatures.  On the road to Harrenhal, Arya not only likens herself to a sheep, but a mouse and continues her time at Harrenhal referring to herself as a “mouse”.  This is also a subversion, while Cinderella in the Disney incarnation befriends mice, in our story Arya becomes the meek mouse:

On the road Arya had felt like a sheep, but Harrenhal turned her into a mouse.  She was grey as a mouse in her scratchy wool shift, and like a mouse she kept to the crannies and crevices and dark holes of the castle, scurrying out of the way of the mighty. – Arya VII ACOK

He does not know me, she thought.  Arry was a fierce little boy with a sword, and I’m just a grey mouse girl with a pail. – Arya VII ACOK

She was very small and Harrenhal was very large, full of places where a mouse could hide. – Arya VII ACOK

Even Jaqen calls Arya a mouse:

She crept up quiet as a shadow, but he opened his eyes all the same.  “She steals in on little mice feet, but a man hears,” he said.  How could he hear me? She wondered, and it seemed as if he heard that as well.  “The scuff of leather on stone sings loud as warhorns to a man with open ears.  Clever girls go barefoot.” – Arya VIII ACOK

However, through Jaqen, Arya begins to feel more in control of her situation, stronger and is transformed, if only for a short time.

“…Some are saying it was Harren’s ghost flung him down.” He snorted to show what he thought of such notions.

It wasn’t Harren, Arya wanted to say, it was me. She has killed Chiswyck with a whisper, and she would kill two more before she was through.  I’m the ghost in Harrenhal, she thought.  And that night, there was one less name to hate. – Arya VII ACOK

I was a sheep, and then I was a mouse, I couldn’t do anything but hide.  Arya chewed her lip and tried to think when her courage had come back.  Jaqen made me brave again.  He made me a ghost instead of a mouse. – Arya IX ACOK

Lucifer the Cat

In Disney’s Cinderella, Lucifer is Lady Tremaine’s cat who is described as being a sly, wicked, and manipulative mouse consumer.  He spends the whole film trying to torment and catch the mice.  I feel that Weese takes on aspects of this feline character, and I think this because of certain descriptors that are given to Weese to make him appear almost catlike:

“Weasel,” Weese purred, “next time I see that mouth droop open, I’ll pull out your tongue and feed it to my bitch.” – Arya VII ACOK

In his own small strutting way, Weese was nearly as scary as Ser Gregor.  The Mountain swatted men like flies, but most of the time he did not even seem to know the fly was there.  Weese always knew you were there, and what you were doing, and sometimes what you were thinking.  He would hit at the slightest provocation, and he had a dog who was near as bad as he was, an ugly spotted bitch that smelled worse than any dog Arya had ever known. Once she saw him set the dog on a latrine boy who’d annoyed him.  She tore a big chunk out of the boy’s calf while Weese laughed. – Arya VII ACOK

So here we have Weese purring, strutting, being compared to the Mountain who swats at peoples, and being watchful and observant, very much like a cat.  And like in the movie, a dog attacks him.  Now Weese didn’t fall from a tower window, but Chiswyck fell/was pushed. Considering these two are the two people Arya had Jaqen kill, I wouldn’t be surprised if they are meant to make up two halves of a whole in this regard.  After all, they are both wicked creatures who prey upon the weak, just like Lucifer and they both got their just desserts for it.

Jaq the Mouse

In Disney’s Cinderella, Cinderella rescues mice from traps, as well as from Lucifer, and dresses and feeds them.  They perform favors in return.  At the beginning of the film, a mouse named Gus is trapped in a cage, and the leader of the mice finds him and retrieves Cinderella to free him.  The leader of the mice is a mouse named Jaq, and he was also a mouse that was saved by Cinderella from a cage.  This sounds awfully familiar…

Rushing through the barn doors was like running into a furnace.  The air was swirling with smoke, the back wall a sheet of fire ground to roof. Their horses and donkeys were kicking and rearing and screaming.  The poor animals, Arya thought.  Then she saw the wagon, and the three men manacled to its bed.  Biter was flinging himself against the chains, blood running down his arms from where the iron clasped his wrists.  Rorge screamed curses, kicking at the wood.  “Boy!” called Jaqen H’ghar.  “Sweet boy!”

[. . .]

“Good boys, kind boys,” called Jaqen H’ghar, coughing.

“Get these fucking chains off!” Rorge screamed.

[. . .]

Going back into that barn was the hardest thing she ever did.  Smoke was pouring out the open door like a writhing black snake, and she could hear the screams of the poor animals inside, donkeys and horses and men.  She chewed her lip, and darted through the doors, crouched low where the smoke wasn’t quite so thick.

A donkey was caught in a ring of fire, shrieking in terror and pain.  She could smell the stench of burning hair.  The roof was gone up too, and things were falling down, pieces of flaming wood and bits of straw and hay.  Arya put a hand over her mouth and nose.  She couldn’t see the wagon for the smoke, but she could still hear Biter screaming.  She crawled toward the sound.

And then a wheel was looming over her.  The wagon jumped and moved a half foot when Biter threw himself against his chains again.  Jaqen saw her, but it was too hard to breathe, let alone talk.  She threw the axe into the wagon.  Rorge caught it and lifted it over his head, rivers of sooty sweat pouring down his noseless face.  Arya was running, coughing.  She heard the steel crash through the old wood, and again, again. An instant later came a crack as loud as thunder, and the bottom of the wagon came ripping loose in an explosion of splinters. – Arya IV ACOK

So here we have Jaq who is leader of the mice, who also helps Cinderella by doing her favors.  Then we have Jaqen H’ghar who is the leader of Rorge and Biter (this name seems even more fitting now) and who is performing favors for Arya, which leads me to Jaqen’s dual Cinderella archetype: Fairy Godmother.

Magical Helpers

Some versions of Magical Helpers come from fairy godmothers or talking animals or genies.  In other versions this help comes to the heroine through her dead mother, often manifesting through animal aid.  In One Thousand and One Nights, in the story of “Judar and his Brethren” Judar is our Cinderella figure, whose own brothers betray and poison him, but before that he was gifted a genie named Al-Ra’ad al-Kasif who granted Judar’s wishes.  In the passage below Jaqen grants Arya three “wishes” which is typical for genies to grant in our popular consciousness:

She remembered that she hated him.  “You scared me.  You’re one of them now, I should have let you burn.  What are you doing here?  Go away or I’ll yell for Weese.”

“A man pays his debts.  A man owes three.”

“Three?”

“The Red God has his due, sweet girl, and only death may pay for life.  This girl took three that were his.  This girl must give three in their places.  Speak the names, and a man will do the rest.”

He wants to help me, Arya realized with a rush of hope that made her dizzy.  “Take me to Riverrun, it’s not far, if we stole some horses we could—”

He laid a finger on her lips.  “Three lives you shall have of me.  No more, no less.  Three and we are done.  So a girl must ponder.”  He kissed her hair softly.  “But not too long.” – Arya VII ACOK

Later, we also see that “wishes” have consequences, which is also prevalent when genies are concerned.  GRRM himself is a big fan of consequences and unintended side effects.  

Jaqen is not Arya’s only form of Magical Help at Harrenhal however.  Jaqen may take on the role of Fairy Godmother/Genie, but we also see Arya experiencing the help of not only an animal aid, but from a dead parent.  For instance, the heroine in Aschenputtel, by the Brother’s Grimm, is given a hazel twig by her father that she plants over her mother’s grave.  She waters it with tears and over the years it grows into a glowing hazel tree.  The girl prays under it three times a day, chanting, and a bird emerges from it that grants her wishes.  There are two instances of something similar happening in the books:

In the godswood she found her broomstick sword where she had left it, and carried it to the heart tree.  There she knelt.  Red leaves rustled.  Red eyes peered inside her.  The eyes of the gods.  “Tell me what to do, you gods,” she prayed.

For a long moment there was no sound but the wind and the water and the creak of leaf and limb.  And then, far far off, beyond the godswood and the haunted towers and the immense stone walls of Harrenhal, from somewhere out in the world, came the long lonely howl of a wolf.  Gooseprickles rose on Arya’s skin, and for an instant she felt dizzy.  Then, so faintly, it seemed as if she heard her father’s voice.  “When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives,” he said.

“But there is no pack,” she whispered to the weirwood.  Bran and Rickon were dead, the Lannisters had Sansa, Jon had gone to the Wall.  “I’m not even me now, I’m Nan.”

“You are Arya of Winterfell, daughter of the north. You told me you could be strong.  You have the wolf blood in you.”

“The wolf blood.”  Arya remembered now.  “I’ll be as strong as Robb.  I said I would.”  She took a deep breath, then lifted the broomstick in both hands and brought it down across her knee.  It broke with a loud crack, and she threw the pieces aside.  I am a direwolf, and done with wooden teeth. – Arya X ACOK

Here we see an inversion. Arya’s mother isn’t dead at this time, but her father, Ned is.  He is who we hear through the heart tree giving Arya this empowering “Mufasa” moment that gives way to Arya’s true transformation in this arc, she reclaims her identity.  And as soon as Arya asks the old gods for aid, a wolf howls in the distance as if in answer.  It’s not confirmed but I do truly believe that this howl came from Nymeria, by way of the Old Gods/Greenseers, who somehow helped strengthen their bond.  It is after this moment that Arya starts having full on wolf dreams in earnest and it’s through her first wolf dream that we see that Nymeria may have become Arya’s animal aid:

Her dreams were red and savage.  The Mummers were in them, four at least, a pale Lyseni and a dark brutal axeman from Ib, the scarred Dothraki horse lord called Iggo and a Dornishman whose name she never knew.  On and on they came, riding through the rain in rusting mail and wet leather, swords and axe clanking against their saddles.  They thought they were hunting her, she knew with all the strange sharp certainty of dreams, but they were wrong.  She was hunting them.

She was no little girl in the dream; she was a wolf, huge and powerful, and when she emerged from beneath the trees in front of them and bared her teeth in a low rumbling growl, she could small the rank stench of fear from horse and man alike.  The Lyseni’s mount reared and screamed in terror, and the others shouted at one another in mantalk, but before they could act the other wolves came hurtling from the darkness and the rain, a great pack of them, gaunt and wet and silent.

The fight was short but bloody.  The hairy man went down as he unslung his axe, the dark one died stringing an arrow, and the pale man from Lys tried to bolt.  Her brothers and sisters ran him down, turning him again and again, coming at him from all sides, snapping at the legs of his horse and tearing the throat from the rider when he came crashing to the earth. – Arya I ASOS

We see here that Nymeria and her pack protected Arya, Gendry, and Hot Pie against their pursuers after their escape from Harrenhal.

Here is another instance of Arya praying under the heart tree:

Arya went to her knees.  She wasn’t sure how she should begin.  She clasped her hands together.  Help me, you old gods, she prayed silently.  Help me get those men out of the dungeon so we can kill Ser Amory, and bring me home to Winterfell.  Make me a water dancer and a wolf and not afraid again, ever.

Was that enough?  Maybe she should pray aloud if she wanted the old gods to hear.  Maybe she should pray longer.  Sometimes her father had prayed a long time, she remembered. But the old gods had never helped him. Remembering that made her angry. “You should have saved him,” she scolded the tree.  “He prayed to you all the time.  I don’t care if you help me or not.  I don’t think you could even if you wanted to.”

“Gods are not mocked, girl.”

The voice startled her.  She leapt to her feet and drew her wooden sword.  Jaqen H’ghar stood so still in the darkness that he seemed one of the trees.  “A man comes to hear a name.  One and two and then comes three.  A man would have done.”

Arya lowered the splintery point toward the ground. “How did you know I was here?”

“A man sees.  A mean hears.  A man knows.”

She regarded him suspiciously.  Had the gods sent him?  “How’d you make the dog kill Weese?  Did you call Rorge and Biter up from hell?  Is Jaqen H’ghar your true name?

“Some men have many names.  Weasel.  Arry. Arya.”

She backed away from him, until she was pressed against the heart tree.  “Did Gendry tell?”

“A man knows,” he said again.  “My lady of Stark.”

Maybe the gods had sent him in answer to her prayers. – Arya IX ACOK

In Cenerentola, the heroine’s (Zezolla) father is given a date seedling by a fairy and he gives it to his daughter.  Zezolla cultivates the tree in which a fairy lives.  This fairy gives Zezolla magical aid.  When Arya prayed beneath the heart tree in the above quote it almost seems like Jaqen appeared from the trees, leaving Arya to question if the old gods sent him.

And like in Aschenputtel and Disney’s Cinderella, Arya spends time at Harrenhal singing/chanting to herself as well:

Barefoot surefoot lightfoot, she sang under her breath. I am the ghost in Harrenhal. – Arya IX ACOK

This is very strange for a couple of reasons.  When we first meet Arya she claims not to like songs and doesn’t sing.  She continues this up until she goes to Braavos. There she discovers that she likes the bawdy songs when she is using the name, Cat of the Canals.  The only exception to this is when Arya is at Harrenhal. Another reason this is odd is because of where Arya is at physically and mentally.  So either Arya was always lying about not liking songs, or Arya singing here is supposed to tell us something.

And while this might not mean anything, I found it interesting that Arya spends a lot of her time in ACOK barefoot.  Now Cinderella isn’t really said to be barefoot in the stories, but she did usually lose a shoe when running away from the Prince/King, hence making her barefoot. When Arya decides to escape Harrenhal, she does don a pair of shoes again and from then on out she mostly wears them.  This also leads to a fun bit of subversion.  In the originals tales it’s always the Prince/King saving Cinderella from further oppression.  But in Arya X ACOK, not only did she (a princess) plan the escape, but she saves Gendry, a lost (albeit bastard) prince, along with Hot Pie, from further oppression (and torture and death) by their slavers in their prison camp.  (Hot Pie definitely reminds me of Gus Gus as well by the way :D)

From Rags to Riches

In many versions of Cinderella, we also see the heroine become physically transformed.  The heroine is usually dirty, covered in ashes, and wearing “rags” before they are made over.  In the most popular version, Disney’s Cinderella, the Fairy Godmother magically turns her from dirty household servant to highborn lady, adorning her in a silver ballgown and glass slippers.  In Ye Xian, magical fish bones, help the heroine dress appropriately for a local Festival, including a light, golden shoe.  And in Aschenputtel, the doves that emerge from her hazel tree, that grant the heroine wishes, drop a gold and silver gown and silk shoes down to her to wear to the ball.  Also, noticeably, this is the time the Prince/King notices Cinderella and finally “sees” her.

While we didn’t get anything like that in ACOK, we don’t have to look much farther than ASOS, when Arya goes to Acorn Hall and meets Lady Smallwood, who puts her in two different dresses:

And afterward, they insisted she dress herself in girl’s things, brown woolen stockings and a light linen shift, and over that a light green gown with acorns embroidered all over the bodice in brown thread, and more acorns bordering the hem. – Arya IV ASOS

It was even worse than before; Lady Smallwood insisted that Arya take another bath, and cut and comb her hair besides; the dress she put her in this time was sort of lilac-colored, and decorated with little baby pearls.  The only good thing about it was that it was so delicate that no one could expect her to ride in it. – Arya IV ASOS

And while there is no ball, Arya and Gendry spend their time in the forge together.  This is the very first time Gendry has seen Arya look like a proper lady.  Cinderella and Arya are no longer dirty and in rags and they are now in gowns looking their place in society, despite Arya’s dress not being nearly as grand.  However, it’s enough of a change for Gendry to finally realize just who Arya truly is when it comes to her place in the world.  And judging by his behavior after this event, he also begins to acknowledge that if he continues to stay by her side he could potentially love her romantically in the future as well:  

Gendry reached out with the tongs as if to pinch her face, but Arya swatted them away.

[. . .]

Gendry put the hammer down and looked at her.  “You look different now.  Like a proper little girl.”

“I look like an oak tree, with all these stupid acorns.”

“Nice, though.  A nice oak tree.”  He stepped closer, and sniffed at her.  “You even smell nice for a change.” – Arya IV ASOS

Runaway Princess

Now we may not have had a ball, but while taking shelter in a stone stable with the Brotherhood Without Banners, Arya does run outside, trying to get away from everyone:

His words beat at her ears like the pounding of a drum, and suddenly it was more than Arya could stand.  She wanted Riverrun, not Acorn Hall; she wanted her mother and her brother Robb, not Lady Smallwood or some uncle she never knew.  Whirling, she broke for the door, and when Harwin tried to grab her arm she spun away from him quick as a snake.

Outside the stables the rain was still falling, and distant lightning flashed in the west.  Arya ran as fast as she could.  She did not know where she was going, only that she wanted to be alone, away from all the voices, away from their hollow words and broken promises.  All I wanted was to go to Riverrun.  It was her own fault, for taking Gendry and Hot Pie with her when she left Harrenhal.  She would have been better alone.  If she had been alone, the outlaws would never have caught her, and she’d be with Robb and her mother by now.  They were never my pack.  If they had been, they wouldn’t leave me.  She splashed through a puddle of muddy water.  Someone was shouting her name, Harwin probably, or Gendry, but the thunder drowned them out as it rolled across the hills half a heartbeat behind the lightning.  The lightning lord, she thought angrily.  Maybe he couldn’t die, but he could lie. – Arya VIII ASOS

Now it’s not explicitly clear that it was Gendry who ran after Arya, calling her name, but due to the possible symbolism in the scene, and also his behavior in AFFC, it makes me think it was him.  But whether he was or not I believe just Arya believing it might be him makes this applicable enough as a loose parallel for the Prince chasing after Cinderella, only for Cinderella to disappear like in many of the Cinderella retellings.  

Searching the Realm

At the end of ASOS in the epilogue we learn that Lady Stoneheart and the Brotherhood Without Banners, who Gendry is a part of is actively searching for Arya:

The outlaw gave him (Merrett Frey) an encouraging smile. “Well, as it happens, we’re looking for a dog that ran away.”

“A dog?” Merrett was lost.  “What kind of dog?”

“He answers to the name Sandor Clegane […] Did you see him at the wedding, perchance?”

[. . .]

“He would have had a child with him,” said the singer.  “A skinny girl, about ten.  Or perhaps a boy the same age.”

“I don’t think so,” said Merrett.  “Not that I knew.” – Epilogue ASOS

In many retellings of the Cinderella story, the Prince/King searches the realm looking for the heroine with an identifying item, and typically that item is a shoe of some sort.  Once the shoe is placed on the heroine’s foot it symbolically means the heroine is reclaiming her identity.  Arya, however, didn’t lose a shoe, and I’d argue that when Ned/the Old Gods/the Greenseers spoke to Arya through the heart tree, empowering Arya, that’s when Arya reclaimed her identity, at least for that time as Arya must reclaim her identity multiple times in her arc.  I’d argue that Arya’s connection to the North and her family is her overall identifying item. But I fully believe Gendry himself might be another “identifying item,” along with him still taking on the archetypal role of “prince”.

Why do I say this? Because in AFFC Gendry is stationed at one of the last known places Arya was sighted at with the Hound, the Crossroads Inn, where he is blacksmithing while also helping to look after orphans. He was likely stationed there by Lady Stoneheart and the Brotherhood Without Banners because he knew Arya the best out of everyone (remember LSH would probably have a hard time recognizing Arya after two plus years and a resurrection).  So if she returned, he would not only have a better chance at recognizing her, but also possibly a better chance at keeping her there compared to anyone else.  If people are doubting that this is Gendry’s role, just remember that the BWB is actively looking for Arya, and also note Gendry’s personality shift post-ASOS. Gendry has always been rude and moody, but in AFFC it has been taken to the extreme.  He is absolutely furious and instead of being just plain rude, he’s actually become mean and more violent.  He also seems to have something against the Hound now, someone who he previously had nothing against during the Hound’s trial by combat earlier in ASOS:

…The boy came and stood beside her, his hammer in his hand.

Lightning cracked to the south as the riders swung down off their horses.  For half a heartbeat darkness turned to day.  An axe gleamed silvery blue, light shimmered off mail and plate, and beneath the dark hood of the lead rider Brienne glimpsed an iron snout and rows of steel teeth, snarling.

Gendry saw it too.  “Him.”

“Not him.  His helm.” Brienne tried to keep the fear from her voice, but her mouth was dry as dust. – Brienne VII AFFC

That “him” was very pointed and because of the symbolism in the scene surrounding that “him” and the overall change in Gendry’s behavior I definitely take it to mean Gendry does have a problem with the Hound now.  So what changed?  The Hound kidnapped Arya.  I think it’s safe to say that Gendry is just as invested as the rest of the BWB, if not more so, to finding Arya again, hence making him the “prince” searching the realm for his lost Cinderella.

A Dream Is a Wish Your Heart Makes

In Disney’s Cinderella, songs like “Bibbidi-Bobbidi-Boo”, “So This Is Love”, “Cinderella”, “A Dream Is a Wish Your Heart Makes”, “Oh, Sing Sweet Nightingale”, and “The Work Song” are included into the film.  This isn’t the first time we’ve seen something like this in the previous retellings however.  Like I mentioned earlier the Brother’s Grimm, Aschenputtel, features this as well to some extant.  In Aschenputtel, the heroine would “sing a chant” to call upon the white doves that came from her glowing hazel tree.  These birds would help her grant wishes and help her complete tasks, and it was most likely the inspiration for why birds were included in the Disney version, although birds have featured in more than just Aschenputtel.  I mention this because GRRM wrote Arya a song in the novels:

“My featherbed is deep and soft,

and there I'll lay you down,

I'll dress you all in yellow silk,

and on your head a crown.

For you shall be my lady love,

and I shall be your lord.

I'll always keep you warm and safe,

and guard you with my sword.

 “And how she smiled and how she laughed,

the maiden of the tree.

She spun away and said to him,

no featherbed for me.

I'll wear a gown of golden leaves,

and bind my hair with grass,

But you can be my forest love,

and me your forest lass.”

This is very clearly a love song also and we know it’s most likely about Arya and her foreshadowing a possible future relationship with Gendry.  And it’s very clearly about them as Gendry is a bastard Baratheon “prince”, hence the mentions of “yellow silk” and a “crown”, and also because Arya quite literally is dressed as an oak tree at this time and almost a maiden and will be a maiden when they reunite later in the series.  We also know the song is meant to foreshadow them because of the context.  Tom O’Seven’s specifically winked at Arya as he sang this song, and after the song was sung Lady Smallwood, when taking Arya to get changed into a different dress, said to Arya, “I have no gowns of leaves,” which further tells the readers that this song is Arya’s song, her future love song.

A Mother’s Legacy

In the Magical Helpers section above I mentioned that a dead parent may be the one to help the heroine instead of the typical fairy godmother, by either sending an animal to aid the heroine and/or granting wishes, or by the heroine’s mother transforming into an animal.  In some Greek versions, in “the Balkan-Slavonic tradition of the tale”, and in some Central Asian variants, the heroine’s mother comes back as a cow who is then killed by the heroine’s sisters.  The heroine eventually gathers the bones and from her mother’s grave the heroine is gifted wonderful dresses.  In other variants, the heroine’s dead mother comes back as a fish or a female dog. These animals represent the heroine’s mother’s legacy.

Jon chuckled. “Perhaps you should do the same thing, little sister.  Wed Tully to Stark in your arms.”

“A wolf with a fish in its mouth?” It made her laugh.  “That would look silly…” – Arya I AGOT

That night she went to sleep thinking of her mother, and wondering if she should kill the Hound in his sleep and rescue Lady Catelyn herself.  When she closed her eyes she saw her mother’s face against the back of her eyelids.  She’s so close I could almost smell her…

…and then she could smell her.  The scent was faint beneath the other smells, beneath moss and mud and water, and the stench of rotting reeds and rotting men.  She padded slowly through the soft ground to the river’s edge, lapped up a drink, then lifted her head to sniff.  The sky was grey and thick with cloud, the river green and full of floating things.  Dead men clogged the shallows, some still moving as the water pushed them, others washed up on the banks.  Her brothers and sisters swarmed around them, tearing at the rich ripe flesh.

[. . .]

The scent was stronger now [. . .] Only the scent mattered.  She sniffed the air again.  There it was, and now she saw it too, something pale and white drifting down the river, turning where it brushed against a snag.  The reeds bowed down before it.

She splashed noisily through the shallows and threw herself into the deeper water, her legs churning.  The current was strong but she was stronger.  She swam, following her nose.  The river smells were rich and wet, but those were not the smells that pulled her.  She paddled after the sharp red whisper of cold blood, the sweet cloying stench of death.  She chased them as she had often chased a red deer through the trees, and in the end she ran them down, and her jaw closed around a pale white arm.  She shook it to make it move, but there was only death and blood in her mouth.  By now she was tiring, and it was all she could do to pull the body back to shore. As she dragged it up the muddy bank, one of her little brothers came prowling, his tongue lolling from his mouth. She had to snarl to drive him off, or else he would have fed.  Only then did she stop to shake the water from her fur.  The white thing lay facedown in the mud, her dead flesh wrinkled and pale, cold blood trickling from her throat.  Rise, she thought.  Rise and eat and run with us. – Arya XII ASOS

“So you sewed his head on Robb Stark’s neck after both o’ them were dead,” said yellow cloak.

“My [Merrett Frey] father did that [. . .] I only drank some wine…you have no witness.”

“As it happens, you’re wrong there.”  The singer turned to the hooded woman.  “Milady?”

The outlaws parted as she came forward, saying no word.  When she lowered her hood, something tightened inside Merrett’s chest, and for a moment he could not breathe.  No.  No, I saw her die.  She was dead for a day and night before they stripped her naked and threw her body in the river.  Raymund opened her throat from ear to ear.  She was dead.

Her cloak and collar hid the gash his brother’s blade had made, but her face was even worse than he remembered.  The flesh had gone pudding soft in the water and turned the color of curdled milk. Half her hair was gone and the rest had turned as white and brittle as a crone’s.  Beneath her ravaged scalp, her face was shredded skin and black blood where she had raked herself with her nails.  But her eyes were the most terrible thing.  Her eyes saw him, and they hated.

“She don’t speak,” said the big man in the yellow cloak.  “You bloody bastards cut her throat too deep for that.  But she remembers.”  He turned to the dead woman and said, “What do you say, m’lady?  Was he part of it?”

Lady Catelyn’s eyes never left him.  She nodded. – Epilogue ASOS

In the Chinese retelling of Cinderella, Ye Xian, the heroine befriends a fish, which is the reincarnation of her deceased mother.  In The Story of Tam and Cam, a Vietnamese version, the heroine Tam also had a fish which was killed by the stepmother and the half-sister, and its bones also give her clothes.  And a typical scene in Kapmalaien tales is the mother becoming a fish, being eaten in fish form, the daughter burying her bones and a tree sprouting from her grave.

So not only is Lady Catelyn a symbolic fish, a daughter of House Tully, but she’s also been resurrected (reincarnated), and is looking specifically for our heroine, Arya, who I believe will be gifted several various things (both good and bad) by this incarnation of her mother, but we shall see if the parallel continues when TWOW and ADOS come out.

Conclusion

I really hope that after you read this monster you were as convinced as I am that Arya indeed has Cinderella motifs, and an extensive amount of them as well. Whatever it may mean I don’t rightly know, but what I do know is that at the end of the day, the many stories of Cinderella are an analogy.  An analogy about someone “who unexpectedly achieves recognition or success after a period of obscurity and neglect”.  Of someone whose attributes were unrecognized in their society, only for them to be recognized.  And I don’t know about you, but that sounds pretty hand in hand with one of her other biggest fairy tale motifs as well that runs concurrently with the Cinderella motif, and that is the story of “The Ugly Duckling”, who after years of neglect, finds acceptance within society, as well as self-acceptance within themselves. :)

[kellyvela]

Has GRRM ever said in any interview or on his blog that he hates Sansa's complete storyline after 4th season? I dont really follow all of his fan/media interactions but from what I can recall he has spoken abt how LF in books wont give sansa to ramsay or how noone had issue when Jeyne was given the Ramsay storyline in books etc. Asking this question to you bcs you rightly point out how ppl misunderstood his interviews/posts ( sansans/targ stans etc) & I cant recall him ever saying he 'hates' sansa's story in the later seasons of the show ( not s5 in particular but even s6 to s8).

Capclave 2013:

A change that has repercussions for season 4 is Marillion’s tongue removal from the first season. Martin said that the change was made (from an anonymous singer being the victim of a de-tonguing) because they wanted Joffrey to maim someone the audience would recognize. He believes this is an issue because of the part the singer plays in Sansa’s storyline, how he affects her interactions with others in the book, and he doesn’t believe another character will be fulfilling that role on Game of Thrones.

—GRRM talks season 4 & beyond - Winter is Coming - October 13, 2013

2014 Fan Reports about Capclave 2013 (*):

In a convention panel this year, George said on the record that he had no idea what they were doing with Sansa or where they’re taking her storyline, which now makes sense perhaps. He was not pleased when he was talking about it, so who knows what’s going to happen with her! Knowing GRRM, that could mean they’re going off the canon reservation, and/or that they’re going to be making a lot of shit up

I have notes I’ll be responding to (thanks!) but enough people commented about Sansa that I thought I’d share that tidbit, since it happened back in September iirc (was the same panel where he criticized the exclusion of Tyrell brothers)

—starkalypse - June 3, 2014

GRRM’s comments at capclave about Sansa (which I was in the third row for, for those asking about legitimacy) were among others during the panel that had a general theme of dissatisfaction with show changes. He was not in good spirits for that con and didn’t really have anything positive to say regarding the show. So take it with a grain of salt; there are deviations away from the books in the episodes he gets writers credit for, so maybe they’re doing something stupid or they really don’t have a gameplan!

—starkalypse - June 4, 2014

(*) These reports were posted in June 2014, during the airing of Game of Thrones Season 4, about Capclave 2013 that happened in October 2013.

Just after the rape episode:

How many children did Scarlett O’Hara have? Three, in the novel. One, in the movie. None, in real life: she was a fictional character, she never existed. The show is the show, the books are the books; two different tellings of the same story.

There have been differences between the novels and the television show since the first episode of season one. And for just as long, I have been talking about the butterfly effect. Small changes lead to larger changes lead to huge changes. HBO is more than forty hours into the impossible and demanding task of adapting my lengthy (extremely) and complex (exceedingly) novels, with their layers of plots and subplots, their twists and contradictions and unreliable narrators, viewpoint shifts and ambiguities, and a cast of characters in the hundreds.

There has seldom been any TV series as faithful to its source material, by and large (if you doubt that, talk to the Harry Dresden fans, or readers of the Sookie Stackhouse novels, or the fans of the original WALKING DEAD comic books)… but the longer the show goes on, the bigger the butterflies become. And now we have reached the point where the beat of butterfly wings is stirring up storms, like the one presently engulfing my email.

Prose and television have different strengths, different weaknesses, different requirements.

David and Dan and Bryan and HBO are trying to make the best television series that they can.

And over here I am trying to write the best novels that I can.

And yes, more and more, they differ. Two roads diverging in the dark of the woods, I suppose… but all of us are still intending that at the end we will arrive at the same place.

In the meantime, we hope that the readers and viewers both enjoy the journey. Or journeys, as the case may be. Sometimes butterflies grow into dragons.

—The Show, the Books - Not A Blog - May 18, 2015

Report about the last Game of Thrones Script that GRRM wrote:

No Wedding for Sansa and Ramsay: Without question, one of the most controversial changes the show made in trying to streamline the books was by slotting Sansa into the role of Ramsay’s wife and rape victim in Season 5. In the books, Ramsay marries and assaults Sansa’s best childhood friend, Jeyne Poole—who is being forced to impersonate Arya—instead. (You can actually see Jeyne briefly sitting next to Sansa in the show’s pilot.)

At the time Martin wrote this script, though, substituting Sansa for Jeyne was not yet the plan. Martin has Roose Bolton tell his bastard son: “We have a much better match in mind for you. A match to help House Bolton hold the north. Arya Stark.” It should be noted, however, that in Martin’s script, Sansa isn’t free from menace either. At his own wedding-day breakfast, Joffrey still threatens to rape the older Stark sister—once he’s “gotten Margaery with child.”)

—Game of Thrones: The Secrets of George R.R. Martin’s Final Script - Vanity Fair - December 7, 2018

A month before the Game of Throne S8 Finale:

Sansa’s story, in particular, has really deviated from the books. Ramsay Bolton — that marriage obviously was with a different character. When they start deviating like that, did you initially have any emotional reaction, even though you worked in Hollywood for many years yourself?

GRRM: Well, yeah — of course you have an emotional reaction. I mean, would I prefer they do it exactly the way I did it? Sure. But I’ve been on the other side of it, too. I’ve adapted work by other people, and I didn’t do it exactly the way they did it, so ….

Some of the deviation, of course, is because I’ve been so slow with these books. I really should’ve finished this thing four years ago — and if I had, maybe it would be telling a different story here. It’s two variations of the same story, or a similar story, and you get that whenever anything is adapted. The analogy I’ve often used is, to ask how many children did Scarlett O’Hara have? Do you know the answer to that?

I know it’s different in the book and the movie …

GRRM: Three children in the book, one by each husband. She had one child in the movie. And in real life, of course, Scarlett O’Hara had no children, because she never existed. Margaret Mitchell made her up. The book is there. You can pick it up and read Mitchell’s version of it, or you can see the movie and see David Selznick’s version of it. I think they’re both true to the spirit of the work, and hopefully that’s also true of Game of Thrones on one hand, and A Song of Ice and Fire on the other hand.

—George R.R. Martin on the Stark Sisters and Ending ‘Game of Thrones’ - RollingStone - April 22, 2019

James Hibberd’s Book:

GEORGE R. R. MARTIN: Jeyne Poole was included in the pilot—she’s shown giggling next to Sansa—but she’s never seen or referred to again. I actually wrote Jeyne into “The Pointy End,” my first script, when Arya killed the stableboy. I had some stuff with Jeyne running to Sansa being all hysterical and dialogue in the council chamber with Littlefinger saying, “Give her to me, I’ll make sure she doesn’t cause any trouble.” That was dropped.

DAVID BENIOFF: Sansa is a character we care about almost more than any other. We really wanted Sansa to play a major part in that season. If we were going to stay absolutely faithful to the book, it was going to be very hard to do that. There was a subplot we loved from the books, but it was a character not involved in the show.

GEORGE R. R. MARTIN: I was trying to set up Jeyne for her future role as the false Arya. The real Arya has escaped and is presumed dead. But this girl has been in Littlefinger’s control for years, and he’s been training her. She knows Winterfell, has the proper northern accent, and can pose as Arya. Who the hell knows what a little girl you met two years ago looks like? When you’re a lord visiting Winterfell, are you going to pay attention to the little kids running around? So she can pull off the impersonation. Not having Jeyne, they used Sansa for that. Is that better or worse? You can make your decision there. Oddly, I never got pushback for that in the book because nobody cared about Jeyne Poole that much. They care about Sansa.

—Fire Cannot Kill a Dragon: Game of Thrones and the Official Untold Story of the Epic Series by James Hibberd - October 6, 2020

GEORGE R. R. MARTIN: My Littlefinger would have never turned Sansa over to Ramsay. Never. He’s obsessed with her. Half the time he thinks she’s the daughter he never had—that he wishes he had, if he’d married Catelyn. And half the time he thinks she is Catelyn, and he wants her for himself. He’s not going to give her to somebody who would do bad things to her. That’s going to be very different in the books.

—Fire Cannot Kill a Dragon: Game of Thrones and the Official Untold Story of the Epic Series by James Hibberd - October 6, 2020

I hope it helps you.

Thanks for your message.

[jackoshadows]

GRRM talking about exploring redemption specifically with Jaime and stating he personally hopes there can be a possibility of redemption for everyone is in his 2014 Rolling Stone interview. It’s a pretty well known quote, kind of a weird one not to know if you’re gonna weigh in on the big Jaime redemption debate... I guess you can just go for GRRM saying he finds it weird people crush on Jaime and the Hound instead, but it doesn’t really seem the most relevant one to me.

Alright, so I looked up his 2014 Rolling stone interview where he talks about redemption:

Q: Both Jaime and Cersei are clearly despicable in those moments. Later, though, we see a more humane side of Jaime when he rescues a woman, who had been an enemy, from rape. All of a sudden we don’t know what to feel about Jaime.

A: One of the things I wanted to explore with Jaime, and with so many of the characters, is the whole issue of redemption. When can we be redeemed? Is redemption even possible? I don’t have an answer. But when do we forgive people? You see it all around in our society, in constant debates. Should we forgive Michael Vick? I have friends who are dog-lovers who will never forgive Michael Vick. Michael Vick has served years in prison; he’s apologized. Has he apologized sufficiently? Woody Allen: Is Woody Allen someone that we should laud, or someone that we should despise? Or Roman Polanski, Paula Deen. Our society is full of people who have fallen in one way or another, and what do we do with these people? How many good acts make up for a bad act? If you’re a Nazi war criminal and then spend the next 40 years doing good deeds and feeding the hungry, does that make up for being a concentration-camp guard? I don’t know the answer, but these are questions worth thinking about. I want there to be a possibility of redemption for us, because we all do terrible things. We should be able to be forgiven. Because if there is no possibility of redemption, what’s the answer then? [Martin pauses for a moment.] You’ve read the books?

Q: Yes.

A: Who kills Joffrey?

Q: That killing happens early in this fourth season. The books, of course, are well past the poisoning of King Joffrey.

A: In the books – and I make no promises, because I have two more books to write, and I may have more surprises to reveal – the conclusion that the careful reader draws is that Joffrey was killed by the Queen of Thorns, using poison from Sansa’s hairnet, so that if anyone did think it was poison, then Sansa would be blamed for it. Sansa had certainly good reason for it.The reason I bring this up is because that’s an interesting question of redemption. That’s more like killing Hitler. Does the Queen of Thorns need redemption? Did the Queen of Thorns kill Hitler, or did she murder a 13-year-old boy? Or both? She had good reasons to remove Joffrey. Is it a case where the end justifies the means? I don’t know. That’s what I want the reader or viewer to wrestle with, and to debate.

Q: I don’t know if somebody like Jaime or Cersei can be redeemed. Cersei’s a great character – she’s like Lady Macbeth.  

A: Well, redeemed in whose eyes? She’ll never be redeemed in the eyes of some. She’s a character who’s very protective of her children. You can argue, well, does she genuinely love her children, or does she just love them because they’re her children? There’s certainly a great level of narcissism in Cersei. She has an almost sociopathic view of the world and civilization. At the same time, what Jaime did is interesting. I don’t have any kids myself, but I’ve talked with other people who have. Remember, Jaime isn’t just trying to kill Bran because he’s an annoying little kid. Bran has seen something that is basically a death sentence for Jaime, for Cersei, and their children – their three actual children. So I’ve asked people who do have children, “Well, what would you do in Jaime’s situation?” They say, “Well, I’m not a bad guy – I wouldn’t kill.” Are you sure? Never? If Bran tells King Robert he’s going to kill you and your sister-lover, and your three children. . . . Then many of them hesitate. Probably more people than not would say, “Yeah, I would kill someone else’s child to save my own child, even if that other child was innocent.” These are the difficult decisions people make, and they’re worth examining.

So reading through this, GRRM says that he is exploring the answer to the question - Can the villains in my story be redeemed? As he points out in this interview, the answer to this question in 2014, was that he didn’t know.

He also compares Lannister villainy to Michael Vick, Woody Allen, Roman Polanski and Nazi war criminals. He asks if Nazi war criminals deserve forgiveness after feeding the hungry for 40 years. What do you think? Do you think Nazi war criminals deserve forgiveness and redemption?

But fandom has decided that according to this Jaime has now been redeemed and anyone who questions the existence of said redemption is a Jaime hater who lacks an understanding of how Jaime Lannister is totally a good guy now.

Oh and look, he is also talking about Cersei Lannister’s redemption in this same interview. Funnily enough, I don’t see anyone in fandom talking about Cersei’s redemption arc when GRRM is asking the same question with her character as he does with Jaime’s. He is talking about whether Cersei Lannister can be redeemed - Cersei has murdered babies!

GRRM is also asking if the Queen of Thorns deserves redemption for taking out baby Hitler. No one seems to be talking about that either.

GRRM also questions if Jaime’s attempted murder of a 7 year old is justified by framing it as the character trying to protect his own children. In my opinion though, this is a guy who is in his thirties, engaging in careless incestuous adultery with the Queen, in the enemy/guest’s home where the enemy could have come upon them anytime and then tried to murder a child to cover it up. Not justified, at all.  This is Jaime Lannister about Joffrey:

Because Joff was no more to me than a squirt of seed in Cersei's cunt, and he deserved to die.

I don’t know, the character does not come across as caring for his children. It was more about saving his and Cersei’s lives than it was about his children. And Cersei tried to stop him from murdering Bran.

Who had the harder choice to make? Jaime has sex with his twin sister, the queen, in Winterfell - because he just doesn’t care - and then tries to murder Ned’s child to cover it up. Or Ned, who wants to save Jaime’s children from Robert Baratheon’s wrath, warns Cersei to leave as soon as possible and in doing so dooms his entire family.

Ultimately the author is exploring the question of whether the baddies in his novel can be redeemed. Not that they will be redeemed or that they are on a path to redemption. He wants there to be a hope for forgiveness for his baddies at the end of their journey. Villains doing good for 40 years - can they be redeemed? In whose eyes do they need to be redeemed?

Jaime could be redeemed in Brienne’s eyes - because she loves him and he helped save her life. Does this mean Bran Stark should forgive him? Does this mean the small folk in the Riverlands who suffered and died because of the WOT5K brought about by his careless adultery should forgive him? Does this mean he is redeemed in the eyes of the reader?

As I stated, in my previous posts, from my interpretation of Jaime’s arc, I don’t see any redemption from Jaime Lannister in the books yet. He is still arrogant and self- serving. A little humbled by the loss of his hand - but able to brag all the same about being ‘Goldenhand the Just’ because he hanged some hungry outlaws. No introspection or acknowledgment of his past actions. We did see some guilt in the dreams he has about abandoning Elia and her children to the Mountain’s mercies despite having sworn an oath to protect them. What he will do about all that? I don’t know.

He did not abandon Cersei because she’s a bad person who murdered babies. He abandoned her to the mercies of the Faith Militant because she was unfaithful to him - because of the personal injury to him. He sees keeping his oaths with respect to Sansa as salvation and then sends off Brienne to do his job, while being engaged in enforcing Lannister rule in Westeros.

The comparison to Theon Greyjoy comes about because Theon has accepted his wrong, Theon is full of remorse and regret. Theon wishes he could go back and do differently. Theon is a broken man - and yet, despite being so afraid, he risks all to help Jeyne Poole - a character no one cares about.

'Can a man still be brave if he's afraid? ' 'That is the only time a man can be brave‘

Saving Jeyne Poole is not going to earn Theon Greyjoy any rewards. But he does it because it’s right - not because it makes him feel good. Does it mean that Theon Greyjoy - who murdered two little boys - is now redeemed and will get a happy ending?

So yeah, can Jaime be redeemed? The author will try to answer that question in books yet to be written and leave it up to the reader to decide if the character has indeed been redeemed.  Thus far I see no redemption, in my opinion and as per my interpretation of the text. Take that as you will.

[thebluelemontree]

Is it wrong to say that Sansa uses an out of sight out of mind coping mechanism? I noticed it because it's what I do a lot. I know some ppl say she rewrites traumatic memories to make the memories bearable but it doesn't make sense. If that was how she coped, wouldn't she have been telling herself lies about Joffrey still in acok? Or found a way to erase/rewrite Marillion's attempt to rape her?

Yes and no. She does that except all the times she doesn’t. ;) I think that characterization is extremely reductionist (and ignores character complexity and  growth) when it’s applied that broadly to every situation Sansa has been in. You have to take these things instance by instance because they aren’t all the same. Sometimes that labeling doesn’t fit at all. In many cases, it feels more like the fandom pathologizing the act of romanticizing or trying to push aside or reframe something unpleasant or even traumatic when that’s just something most human beings do now and then. Some do it more than others, but its all within the realm of typical coping behavior and being older or more educated or more “logical” doesn’t make one immune to it. So I hope you don’t let those interpretations make you feel abnormal or more fallible for identifying with Sansa in that way. Romanticizing doesn’t even have to be about coping at all, but simply expressing desire through daydreams. People imagine being in idealized scenarios with crushes all the time.  

You also hit the nail on the head. Sansa just doesn’t go around making up false narratives about every objectively awful thing that happens to her. In fact, her actual responses to those moments can be a useful basis for comparison when we’re analyzing the unkiss, for example. Misunderstanding the unkiss is usually where a lot of these assumptions stem from. That’s a whole other can of worms in itself. The unkiss is just too long of a discussion to put here, so I just recommend this post as to the reasons why it isn’t about trauma and take a browse through my unkiss tag. It does bear repeating that Sansa factually remembers every scary thing that happened during the Blackwater and why it happened, indicating she has processed it honestly and critically, before any incarnation of the unkiss happens. The unkiss is a mismemory added on to the facts, which began as her being the actor that kissed him first. It’s not a lie to deny the facts or to excuse his behavior. It’s regrettable to her that Sandor was not able to be the person she could rely on to get her out of KL at that time. Nonetheless, this repressed desire is just so strong in her that it manifested in a kiss so real she could remember how it felt after the reality of his leaving KL for good sank in. 

Early AGOT Sansa tended to want to move past unpleasantness rather quickly. Just sweep those red flags under the rug so everything can go back to blissful harmony. Sansa is naturally averse to conflict and just wants her present with the royal family to be smooth sailing into a bright future. Ned had a very similar tendency when it came to concerns over Robert’s true character. He saw things that disturbed him, but he hoped and clung to his idea of Robert anyway. For Sansa, this resulted in some misplaced blame and rewriting events so she could deal with the aftermath. This is mostly seen in her processing the Mycah incident after Lady’s death and how her perception of all the characters involved shifted in varying ways. This is after she knew perfectly well what really happened, because Ned says Sansa had already told him the truth of what Joffrey did while Arya was still missing. However, it would also be unfair to completely chalk this up to Sansa’s idiosyncrasies. We have to put her flip-flopping in the context of the situation as well. She’s also experienced a gutting loss with Lady’s death and the fact that the first blow to her innocence was her father volunteering to put Lady down. She doesn’t have Catelyn to go to with her confusion and hurt, and Ned has largely been silent. She’s also still engaged to Joffrey through all this, this is still a patriarchy, there are political ramifications to speaking against a crown prince, and she doesn’t know how to deal with seeing such cruelty and vindictiveness in her future husband. Especially when he responded to her tender concern and wanting to help him with venom and hate. 

I mean, jeez, she’s 11. I don’t expect an 11 year old to understand how to identify the signs of emotional manipulation or see how this situation can escalate into domestic violence. Just because Sansa can’t articulate what is happening within her relationship with Joffrey, doesn’t mean she has blocked out any notion that Joffrey can turn his anger on her. Part of the reason she misplaces blame on Arya (and rewrites what happened) is because Joffrey turns scornful of Sansa for being a witness to his emasculating shame. He punishes her with the cold shoulder because she didn’t immediately take his side and pretended not to see instead. He regains power through making Sansa feel small and fearful of his moods. 

“He had not spoken a word to her since the awful thing had happened, and she had not dared to speak to him.” -- Sansa II, AGOT.

Sansa looked at him and trembled, afraid that he might ignore her or, worse, turn hateful again and send her weeping from the table. -- Sansa II, AGOT.

This is coming from someone who is supposed to love her and someone she will spend the rest of her life with. To fix things, she must be unequivocally on Joffrey’s side going forward or suffer the consequences, which we can see happening as her story completely flips over breakfast sometime later. This is not saying Sansa is fully exonerated from not supporting her sister when she needed her, but that it’s understandable how she arrived at this point. Even when things start to get really bad after Ned’s arrest, Sansa still holds out some hope that she can appeal to Joffrey’s (and Cersei’s) love for her to get him to be merciful. Is it really her fault she believed a part of Joffrey really loved her (and thus was reachable by her pleas) if he also heavily love bombed her and treated her like she was the most special girl in the world? Love bombing is a classic feature of the seduction phase leading up to abuse.  

So we can see Sansa does ignore truths and rewrite events sometimes and her personality is a factor; however, the context surrounding it matters a lot. Post Ned’s execution, Sansa does a full 180 regarding Joffrey and Cersei.

Sansa stared at him, seeing him for the first time. He was wearing a padded crimson doublet patterned with lions and a cloth-of-gold cape with a high collar that framed his face. She wondered how she could ever have thought him handsome. His lips were as soft and red as the worms you found after a rain, and his eyes were vain and cruel. "I hate you," she whispered. -- Sansa VI, AGOT.

Once she had loved Prince Joffrey with all her heart, and admired and trusted his mother, the queen. They had repaid that love and trust with her father's head. Sansa would never make that mistake again. -- Sansa I, ACOK. 

"A monster," she whispered, so tremulously she could scarcely hear her own voice. "Joffrey is a monster. He lied about the butcher's boy and made Father kill my wolf. When I displease him, he has the Kingsguard beat me. He's evil and cruel, my lady, it's so. And the queen as well." -- Sansa I, ASOS. 

There’s also her conscious efforts to push away thoughts of her dead family and Jeyne Poole, but she states why she does that. It’s traumatic, the tears start flowing uncontrollably, and she is desperately trying to avoid falling into another suicidal depression. Her survival in KL depends on her holding it together and appearing loyal and obedient to Joffrey. Mourning her loved ones would imply to Joffrey she is plotting treason. Besides, she knows that even if she did ask Cersei or LF about Jeyne, she has no reason to believe they’d do anything but lie to her face in a patronizing way. There’s no point being plagued with wondering what the truth might be when she can’t do anything about it. Still, she prayed for Jeyne wherever she might be. She genuinely thought Arya had made it to WF on the ship and was safe at least until she got word of her brothers’ deaths and her home being sacked by the Iron Born, though there was initially a touch of projection and fantasizing about Arya being free while she remains captured. As of Feast, she believes she is the last Stark left alive and she has no one but Littlefinger to help her. So while she is suppressing her grief, it’s done with good reason, and it’s not being replaced with any false narratives to cope. 

We also cannot ignore that her relationship to Sandor Clegane has instilled in her an appreciation for the un-sugarcoated truth now that she has experienced betrayal and injustice first hand. In his own way, he’s encouraged her to listen to her own inner bullshit detector. The rose-tinted glasses have become a lot more clear compared to where she started. This is a newly learned skill though, and her self-confidence has been wrecked by internalized verbal abuse. She’s also been left on her own to figure out people’s intentions by herself, which runs parallel to her mounting desperation to get out of KL as Joffrey’s violence escalates. Developing a touch more of a jaded, skeptical side does sometimes clash with her enduring idealism and faith in other people (like with the Tyrells). This struggle is not a bad thing. The goal isn’t to become as cynical as the Hound, but to arrive at an earned optimism that has been tempered by wisdom and practical experience.

Her situation with Littlefinger is much more challenging than anything she faced in KL. He moves her where he wants her to go with complex web of lies, manipulation, grooming, isolation, coercion, dependence, guilt and shame. Her safety and desire to go home are tightly bound to being complicit in his lies and criminal activities. She feels indebted to him for getting her out of KL, even though his methods push her past her boundaries and force her to compromise her moral integrity. The thing is, there are things Sansa does know about LF, but she doesn’t seem to be ready to try and put the puzzle pieces together. She’s not daring to ask probing questions about Lysa’s reference to the “tears” and Jon Arryn or about the possible dangers of Maester Colemon prescribing sweetsleep for Robert’s convulsions. While the subject of Jeyne’s fate is still one she doesn’t want to revisit, somewhere in her mind she does know LF took custody of her friend. If it feels like this is somewhat of a regression back to her early AGOT self, there’s probably some truth to that; however, it’s perfectly okay for positive character arcs to be an imperfect progress. There can be relapses, regressions, setbacks, missteps, and misguided actions. All that growth isn’t lost. Everything she knows is just stored in the back of her mind, not forgotten completely. The general trend line moves her toward successfully confronting Littlefinger with the truth when GRRM is ready to pull the trigger. She’s definitely aware of Littlefinger lying to her more than she lets on and she knows his help is not out of the kindness of his heart, but motivated by what he wants her to be to him. But it’s not like she has the option to go anywhere else, does she? She’s a wanted criminal with a bounty on her head and has no other friend or ally in the Vale she can trust with the truth of her identity. Confronting LF without any means of neutralizing his power over her isn’t the smartest thing to do when he’s shown her he can literally get away with multiple murders. Again, it’s not just her personality that makes her hesitant to pull back the veil and face the horrible truth head on. The outside forces pressuring her perceptions and behavior cannot be discounted either.    

[alinaastarkov]

I always wondered why D&D didn't want Jeyne Poole (fake Arya) marrying Ramsay. Sansa had a completely different storyline in the books. She never married Ramsay, never got raped and yet she did in the show. It almost seemed like they wanted her to have a more horrible storyline. How everyone should feel sorry for and not Arya who saw her brothers dead body, witnessed her fathers execution, watched people get tortured. I swear the last books better make up for the shows disgrace.

They actually admitted to this exact thing. I’m glad you sound surprised, anon, it means you still have some innocence left. And I’m about to ruin it for you 😉

“Sansa is a character we care about almost more than any other, and the Stark sisters have from the very beginning been two characters who have fascinated us the most,” said showrunner David Benioff. [...]

And it’s because of Turner’s strength, Benioff continued, that it made sense to give Sansa a dramatic storyline this season and to use Ramsay’s engagement for that very purpose. In fact, the showrunners first thought about putting Sansa and Ramsay together back when they were writing season 2. “We really wanted Sansa to play a major part this season,” Benioff said. “If we were going to stay absolutely faithful to the book, it was going to be very hard to do that. There was a subplot we loved from the books, but it used a character that’s not in the show.”

Writer-producer Bryan Cogman had some insight, as well. “The seeds were planted early on in our minds,” Cogman said. “In the books, Sansa has very few chapters in the Vale once she’s up there. That was not going to be an option for one of our lead characters. While this is a very bold departure, [we liked] the power of bringing a Stark back to Winterfell and having her reunite with Theon under these circumstances.”

Besides, Cogman pointed out: “You have this storyline with Ramsay. Do you have one of your leading ladies—who is an incredibly talented actor who we’ve followed for five years and viewers love and adore—do it? Or do you bring in a new character to do it? To me, the question answers itself: You use the character the audience is invested in.”

(source)

Gross, right? First, I’m calling bullshit on them being fascinated by the Stark sisters, cause they clearly only care about one. They even admit that. “Sansa is a character we care about almost more than any other.” They literally spelled it out for us. They like Sansa the most, not a main character, which is why the writing became so one-sided. And why do they like her? “And it’s because of Turner’s strength, Benioff continued, that it made sense to give Sansa a dramatic storyline” They like Sansa because they like Sophie Turner. That’s it. And they wanted to give her something more “dramatic” than her Vale storyline. They straight up admit that Sansa is not a main role and they had to change her story to give Turner a main role. It’s also completely disgusting. I won’t say they “care” about Sansa, because if they did, they wouldn’t force her to be raped and abused when she wasn’t in the books. D&D are a pair of sick fucks because they said “There was a subplot we loved from the books, but it used a character that’s not in the show” of a plot that had a girl raped, abused, locked in a tower, and ended with her breaking bones and losing a nose. And they “loved” that plot. It’s absolutely appalling that they think that way. They say there’s a “power of bringing a Stark back to Winterfell,” but there was no power in what she did, they kept her naive and being manipulated, and reuniting with Theon causes nothing but pain. And they say it’s because they don’t want to introduce anyone new when there’s an established character, as if that’s a valid reason (it isn’t). They could have kept Jeyne throughout, brought her to King’s Landing, there’s no POV trap (and they often ignored that to invent pointless scenes) so we could have seen Jeyne with Littlefinger, seeing as they “love” the abuse and sexual assault of young girls, we could have seen her leave for Winterfell. We could have been with Jeyne on every step of her journey. The fact that we weren’t is no-one’s fault but their own. Complaining about introducing a new character this late is not a valid excuse, especially when we hear this:

“The showrunners first thought about putting Sansa and Ramsay together back when they were writing season 2.” So, not only can they not complain about Jeyne being a character we haven’t seen before, it’s their damn fault we don’t see her because they were thinking about this in season 2. Plenty of time to reintroduce Jeyne, but they wanted to do it anyway. And, seeing as they admitted Sansa isn’t a main and we know they only did this because they like Sophie Turner, this means they looked at this 14 year old actress and decided they wanted to see her raped on screen.

It was purely their sick, twisted way of trying to generate sympathy, because they knew Sansa wasn’t a very sympathetic character (aside from the obvious), they knew Arya’s story and character was much more tragic and impactful and would generate more sympathy and praise for her naturally, they didn’t like that the 14 year old they wanted to fuck would not be praised except for her acting, so they did this. And they did it. They attracted fans who are exactly like them. They achieved what they set out to. Except that everyday we stan Arya and Dany more and more, they lose. So keep it up guys.

I shall now return to my vigil outside George’s window until he releases Winds. @arsenicandfinelace has been doing all the vuvuzela work while I’ve been writing. Gotta go back and help out

[rainhalydia]

Because I need to hear my boy praised: fandom ASOIAF; ship: Throbb; character: Theon Greyjoy

Hi, anon! Great to know I’m being recognized as the local Theon-apologist, you’re absolutely right in your assessment!

001 | Fandom: ASOIAF

Favorite character: Theon Greyjoy

Least Favorite character: tough call, but I guess Littlefinger in terms of who I hate the most. In terms of who doesn’t work that much as a character for me, Garlan Tyrell

5 Favorite ships (canon or non-canon): Throbb is the OTP, then in no particular order: NedCat, Sansan, Asha x Qarl and Jaime x Brienne

Character I find most attractive: Theon is my type to a T, physically. Personality wise, probably Asha.

Character I would marry: Oddly enough, Renly! He could go off with Loras and leave me to be a powerful lady and he’d probably be okay with recognizing any bastard I could get as his.

Character I would be best friends with: Sansa. Playing harp and doing crafts are my ideal bonding activities. My sense of adventure also begins and ends with stealing stuff from the kitchen.

a random thought: the world building is seriously lacking more of a merchant class and artists, but it’s something that’s only really noticeable when you’re a hardcore fan. I feel like people reading casually won’t miss it because Martin’s writing is just that good.

An unpopular opinion: Probably very unpopular, but I’m not bothered in the slightest with all the rape and sexual violence towards women in the books, except for maybe the Dothraki. With the Dothraki, it feels like a way to signal how violent they are as a society, but it’s too caricatural to work for me. They rape people in the middle of a super important wedding, come on! But with the rest, I find it sadly plausible. ASOIAF also deals a lot with sexual violence towards men, in a more nuanced and respectful way than most media, so I feel like sexual violence is a theme in general, not just something thrown in for shock value or to degrade women.

My Canon OTP: Throbb is canon probably Ned x Cat.

My Non-canon OTP: Asha x Alysane.

Most Badass Character: There are so many! I guess Tyrion wins because he’s going to ride a dragon with no magic

Most Epic Villain: Euron Greyjoy

Pairing I am not a fan of: Robb x Margaery, Sansa x Margaery, Robb x Jon

Character I feel the writers screwed up (in one way or another): the Dothraki as a whole are very under-developed when compared with the rest of the cast, though Irri and Jhiki arguing over Rakharo is a breath of fresh air.

Favourite Friendship: probably Arya and her Riverland gang

Character I most identify with: Theon and Sansa, maybe Sam

Character I wish I could be: they’re all much braver than I am, but I’ll pick Brienne

002 | Ship: Throbb

When I started shipping them: I don’t really remember? It was on my second read of the series, because I barely remember the first read. ADWD was already out, so after 2011 for sure... If we’re talking about a moment in the books, when Theon thinks he should have died with Robb.

My thoughts: They’re really, really good together. It’s surprisingly balanced for the circumstances they’re in. Even if you don’t ship them, their affection for each other is plain in the text and it drives me up the fucking wall when people say they didn’t like each other. They did! Theon still does! They’re important to each other!

What makes me happy about them: How much they loved and trusted each other. That they really knew each other, in ways other people mostly didn’t.

What makes me sad about them: I mean, theirs is a tragic story, so everything? But especially that Robb died thinking that Theon killed his brothers, and that Theon knows Robb died thinking that about him. That there will be no reconciliation.

Things done in fanfic that annoys me: With the caveat that everyone can do what they like, Robb is not a goody two shoes, his patience is not endless, he has a temper and he thinks Theon is awesome and it’s not a fucking favor on his part being friends with him. Theon, on his side, mostly fools everyone with his cool persona, except for Robb, Asha and the rest of his family.

Things I look for in fanfic: Theon being a charming asshole is my number one priority. I can roll with most scenarios, though.

My wishlist: Let’s see... my favorites things ever for Throbb are friends to lovers, mutual pining, secret relationship, preferably with smut.

Who I’d be comfortable them ending up with, if not each other: Jeyne W. is alright, but I can’t help thinking Robb is gay, so Robb x Olyvar. For Theon, Theon x Jeyne P.

My happily ever after for them: They reunite in the afterlife after Theon dies of very old age.

003 | Character: Theon Greyjoy

How I feel about this character: I love him! My problemaic squid son! He does not deserve a tenth of the hate he gets!

Any/all the people I ship romantically with this character: In order of preference: Robb, Jeyne, Kyra, Patrek Mallister.

My favorite non-romantic relationship for this character: Dagmer, Asha and Wex. The Thramsay dynamic is terrible but interesting, if done well. I wish Theon had never gone through any of that, but at the same time, where would his story even be without it? And he could have been real friends with Patrek if they had time.

My unpopular opinion about this character: He owned the Starks, including Robb, nothing. He did nothing worse than other characters fighting a war until he killed the miller boys and raped Kyra - not to say his actions were good or anything, but they’re about the same as other characters’, including fan favorites. It’s awful but understandable that he didn’t visit his Mom. He’s actually pretty competent as a warrior, but he doesn’t think long-term when making plans. And probably most unpopular of all in my corner of fandom: though he has all the identity issues and belonging issues, he’s actually very ironborn, and his ironborn upbriding, while terrible and abusive even by in-universe standards, actually helped him survive being a captive for so long.

One thing I wish would happen / had happened with this character in canon: I wish someone who loved him had gone to met him when he arrived on Pyke and that Asha hadn’t pulled that “prank” on him. I wish him to live to an old age with people who love him, to get his teeth fixed as much as possible, and to do something important for the Iron Islands.

Favorite friendship for this character: Robb and Wex. I love Asha, but she’s such an older sibling that they’ll always have that dynamic first and foremost to me.

My crossover ship: Super out there, but probably Olivier Mira Armstrong. Theon will drink that respect women juice if he wants to or not!

[starksinthenorth]

A Queen and her Counselors: Tyrion, Jon, Sansa, Daenerys and Sexist Writing on Game of Thrones

In Season 5, Tyrion and Daenerys meet in the episode Hardhome. After a meeting in the throne room of Meereen, they have a one-on-one meeting, and Dany asks an important question:

DAENERYS: So have you decided yet? Whether I’m worthy of your service?

The unspoken question is: Have you decided whether I’m worthy of being your queen? 

When Sansa and Dany meet, it is obvious to anyone pro-Stark or general audience that Sansa is asking this same question. What makes Daenerys Stormborn a worthy Queen of the Seven Kingdoms? Why should we trust another Targaryen?

Dany opens by giving Sansa somewhat empty compliments about her home and her beauty and doesn’t treat her like the Lady Paramount that she is. This is even though she has already seen the smallfolk glaring at her and cowering in fear of her dragons. Because Jon has told her, Dany should know that the North doesn’t trust outsiders. And yet she is written to blatantly ignore them and demand their respect - specifically Sansa’s - from the start.

Yet when Tyrion meets Dany, she makes an effort to prove her worthiness to him and prove that she’ll be a good queen. They chat for a bit about their horrible families, and we get this interaction:

TYRION: So here we sit, two terrible children of two terrible fathers. DAENERYS: I’m terrible? TYRION: I’ve heard stories. DAENERYS: Why did you travel to the other side of the world to meet someone terrible? TYRION: To see if you were the right kind of terrible. DAENERYS: Which kind is that? TYRION: The kind that prevents your people from being even more so.

The intention is clear: he does not trust her to not be a terrible queen or a Mad Targaryen. He is asking her to prove herself. In some ways, she does: she listened to his advice about what to do with Jorah (banish him instead of killing him) and acknowledging to Tyrion that “I know what my father did.”

Similarly, Dany made an effort to explain to Jon that she is not her father and asks that he not hold her accountable for the actions of her family - killing Rickard and Brandon and “raping/kidnapping” Lyanna. But Dany never makes any of those comments to Sansa, despite her being another powerful ally who doesn’t trust Targaryens.

Sansa’s long glares easily show that she does not like or trust Dany. Tyrion said it point blank and it wasn’t a problem to Dany. To Tyrion, Dany was willing to engage in and admit she had done bad things. She took the time to recognize her own failings, specifically reopening the fighting pits. It’s implied that Tyrion has heard the stories from Qarth and her conquest of cities, and how Astapor and Yunkai are on fire.

Similarly, Sansa has most likely heard by now that Dany burned an entire food train and also her prisoners of war. This is the same woman who essentially imprisoned Sansa’s “brother” and King for we-don’t-know-how-long because he wouldn’t bend the knee to her. She is also in possession of two large dragons that could be turned against Winterfell at a moments notice. If Sansa hasn’t spoken with Jon yet, is it that unreasonable to think that she would be distrusting? 

Dany recognizes that he knows the place she wants to rule - Westeros - and that he’s a clever man. She decides to accept him as her advisor to help her get out of Meereen and to her home.

DAENERYS: You’re going to advise me..… [on] How to get what I want. TYRION: The Iron Throne. Perhaps you should try wanting something else. DAENERYS: If I want jokes I’ll get myself a proper fool. TYRION: I’m not entirely joking. There’s more to the world than Westeros after all. How many hundreds of thousands of lives have you changed for the better here? Perhaps this is where you belong. Where you can do the most good…... when you get back to your home, who supports you? DAENERYS: The common people. TYRION: Let’s be generous and assume that’s going to happen….. House Targaryen is gone, not a single person who shares your blood is alive to support you. The Starks are gone as well, our two terrible fathers saw to that. The remaining Lannisters won’t back you, not ever. Stannis Baratheon won’t back you either; his entire claim to the Throne depends on the illegitimacy of yours. That leaves the Tyrells. Not impossible, but not enough.

And then we get the famous “break the wheel” speech, where Dany shares her vision for the future and how she wants to make the world better for the smallfolk. It’s maybe a pipe dream but it inspires awe in both Tyrion and the viewer. This is someone who can be a just ruler, a fighter for the trod-upon little guy. Tyrion decides to follow her after and she decides to heed his advise and, eventually, name him Hand of the Queen.

Similarly, Dany recognizes that Jon has fought more actual wars than her. She asks for his advice about how to handle her enemies. She shows a level of respect for both Jon and Tyrion because of their roles and their experiences in Westeros and war.

Gif credit to: @yocalio​ sorry for not linking properly but this was the only one I could find.

Now, I will give that Sansa was being incredibly snippy, but Dany didn’t handle it well and snipped right back. When Lord Tyrion or King Jon questioned her, she answered or tried to retain the sass. But when Lady Sansa questions her, what does she do? She snips.

Now I ask you: what is the differing factor here?

Sansa is a woman.

There isn’t an in-character, explainable thing for even show!Dany. She sought advice from Missandei, a former slave woman. However, Missandei is a secondary character in Dany’s plot line. While she has a part in advising her and a B-Plot romance with Grey Worm, Missandei is still a secondary character.

I am going to thoroughly blame this one on D&D. These two women are strong characters. As Dany said, I don’t expect them to be friends. But they should be able to respect each other.

However, D&D don’t have the ability to write women who get along, especially traditionally feminine women with power. The books also have some problems with female relationships but D&D made it so much worse.

Consider:

Catelyn didn’t like Talisa to begin with and really only came around right before they were killed. Comparatively, she does her best to make Jeyne feel welcome.

Cersei is horribly oppositional to Olenna and Margaery. This is true in the books as well but she at least tries to mask it with false friendship and carrying for her daughter-in-law.

Sansa and Arya had a really stupid plot all of Season 7 that could’ve been solved with one conversation. They squabble in the books, but they have a love for each other. Sansa imagines Arya happy and home in Winterfell and Arya wishes King’s Landing swept away by the Blackwater until she remembers Sansa is gone.

Show!Selyse is an abusive mother towards Shireen and doesn’t seem to love her until she’s dying. Book!Selyse loves her daughter and is fiercely protective of her.

Show!Lysa is worse towards Sansa than Book!Lysa

Myranda and Sansa just wasn’t necessary at all? 

Ellaria threatening to kill Myrcella when in the  books the girl was harmed by accident and everyone felt bad about it because Myrcella is a delight and they don’t hurt little girls in Dorne.

The Sand Sisters are super aggro with each other? I don’t reread Dorne scenes but I’m pretty sure they were pretty caring in the books.

Granted, they did expand on Margaery and Sansa’s relationships and give us protective!Shae, but that’s not enough.

If this were really Dany and Sansa meeting based off their actual characterizations, they would be distrusting but not outrightly against each other. Sansa would be gauging if Dany was as great as Jon and Tyrion claim. Dany would recognize that Sansa has the approval of the Northern lords and that she is the “Key to the North.”

But, alas, D&D don’t seem to understand that powerful women have more nuanced options than just “BFFs without problems” or “snippy enemies who hate each other.”

[atopvisenyashill]

why do you infantilize Lyanna like she doesn't know her own mind? she's already a grown woman if we go by the standards of Westeros. you might as well say Daenerys ordering the torture of the daughters is done under duress. or joffrey was just a misguided boy in the end. He's even younger than Lyanna. Ygritte would have slit Jon's throat when they were alone if she really wanted to. same with Arya if she married Ramsay. it's in the text that is what they would do and they parallel Lyanna. don't you think the author was trying to tell us that Rhaegar did not rape Lyanna?

again i say your justification in text does not exist.

everything you are mentioning isn’t even remotely similar to what lyanna went through! joff, dany, robb, they are LEADERS making MILITARY CHOICES that involve killing, torturing, burning crops, sacking cities, and harassing peasantry. lyanna is third born, not in any sort of leadership position, and makes a dumb choice for reasons we don’t have any context for. this is like saying alys harroway is responsible for the shitty decisions maegor makes since she agreed to marry an already married man. i’m also not reiterating the arya point beyond - go reread her chapters. seriously, go reread her riverlands arc and watch her, gendry, and hot pie get their asses handed to them over and over again and then tell me that she would be capable without any magical help of killing ramsey.

and think about what you are you saying here - does this mean ramsey never raped jeyne poole because she didn’t kill him? does this mean rhaella was never raped by aerys, because she didn’t kill him? is daenerys not a rape victim, because in order to cope with the horror that was her life married to drogo, she forced herself to fall in love with him and mourns his death? was naerys not almost literally raped to death by aegon, all because she was too sickly to kill him? in the show, alicent is 15 when she marries viserys - are you saying this was fine actually, because according to westerosi standards she was basically a woman grown? sansa parallels lyanna too - does this mean joffrey never abused her, because she romanticizes him in her head for a while?

also, do you want to know ygritte never actually slits jon’s throat (after losing a fight to him, because sometimes you just lose a fight, a fact you have very pointedly ignored to make this silly point)? it’s because jon is nice to her! he doesn’t, for example, keep her under constant watch in a tower guarded by three of the most elite knights in all of westeros, until she dies of a birthing fever while screaming out for tormund to come save her!! we have like three lines of dialogue from lyanna and not a one is about rhaegar! you are citing a source that does not exist!!

and i am ending with - i do not give a single solitary shit that lyanna was considered a grown adult at 16 by westerosi standards. drogo’s marital rape is acceptable by westerosi standards. robert’s abuse of cersei is acceptable by westerosi standards. what EYE think the author is telling us is that sometimes princes do not have the best interests of their people at heart, and sometimes little girls will romanticize the terrors they experience so they can get through the day. what EYE think is that dany, sansa, and jeyne, all very young girls who are married off to powerful men with no choice, all think of killing themselves to escape their lives. because 14, 15, 16, is the age of a CHILD and not an adult.

[asprettyasyourown]

How do you expect the Hardhome plot to play out in the books? Especially with Arya’s and Faceless men’s investment in the same?

Hi anon. I assume you’re referring to what happened to the wildlings in Hardhome?

(For those who don’t remember, after Mance Ryder’s forces have been defeated south of the Wall by Stannis, some wildlings were led by a wood witch named Mother Mole to Hardhome. She predicted that they would “find salvation where they once found damnation” and had a vision of ships coming to sail them south. However, they didn’t fare so well there, the situation growing so dire they had to eat their own dead while they’re presumably surrounded by wights. Jon sent help to get them out (it’s not well received), but slavers came first. The wildlings, following the prophecy, believed them to be rescuers and sent their women and children to them. Of course the slavers had no intention to do any rescuing and thus roped them up to sell them in Lys. But while they were sailing a huge storm broke: they were separated, one ship ending up in Lys and the other in Braavos.)

Honestly, I think it might very well be the catalyst for Arya to leave the Faceless Men. Of course, there could be other factors as well (learning about Jon’s “death”, maybe meeting Jeyne and have her tell about the shit-show that is the North now), but it might be the breaking point for Arya.

Look, we know our girl doesn’t fare well with the FM. We know she struggles to leave her Northern roots behind when she killed Daeron, a Night’s Watch deserter - something the Starks are entrusted with. With her refusal to give up Needle because it reminds her of home, of family, Jon especially. And ultimately her warging of Nymeria, her other half, who now serves as a link to her identity and her land.

We know she is fiercely protective of the smallfolk and has a strong sense of justice, from Mycah to Weasel and Gendry and Hot Pie, or when she defended Sam against the braavosi who were looking to rob him. We know she loves them and being around them, like when she used to sit at her father’s side and listen to the travelers coming to Winterfell, how she likes learning about Braavos’ culture and people (though one can argue it is part of her training, I do think she genuinely loves doing it).

We know she struggles to adapt to the neutral stance of the Many-Faced God, since she had to convinces herself to kill her first target (the old insurance guy who was conning people) by thinking he was a bad man who deserved it, or when she exclaimed that the masters should have been the ones to die instead of the slaves when the Kindly Man told her about the story of Braavos.

So when she learns that a ship full of of wildlings women and children (Northern roots) are being held to be sold as slaves (sense of justice, love of people), she will want to help them (can’t hold a neutral stance). It’s in her core. I don’t see a situation that could draw Arya more than this one.

My guess is that she will beg the FM to intervene, or at least let her intervene. I see her trying to play into Braavos and the FM’s creation (by slaves who rebelled against their oppressors) to appeal to the Kindly Man. But he will refuse her because he’s a little bitch because the FM are neutral and rescuing them would mean taking lives that were not meant to be taken blah blah blah. This will be when Arya finally realizes that the Faceless Men are full of shit, and leaves for good.

(Btw, this would make a nice parallel to her begging Jaqen to help her escape with Gendry and Hot Pie, but in this case Arya doesn’t have any leverage against the Kindly Man - she can’t really blackmail him, it would backfire spectacularly - so she just says “fuck it” and leaves to do it herself, since apparently she has to do everything around here.)

Now how she would free the wildlings is a bit trickier. Arya is still a very young girl after all. Contrary to Dany, she doesn’t have an army or dragons - yet - so she can’t just barge in the ship, kill the slavers and take off. I mean, it would technically be possible, but the afterward logistics would be a problem (how would she feed such a big number of people? How would she get them back across the Narrow Sea? etc). So I have two theories.

One is that Arya’s wildlings join Dany’s Dothraki/Unsullied/etc and they all come back to Westeros together. But while Arya will definitively meet Dany and team up with her (there’s too many foreshadowings to be any way else), the logistics of their meeting is a bit hazardous to me, at least for now. Meereen is a long way from Braavos after all. Maybe if both crowds are travelling towards Westeros and somewhere on the journey they run into each other…? It’s a possibility, but I think the timeline would conflict. Dany still has to deal with the shit-show that is Meereen right now, and it’s not something that will be resolved in one chapter. I guess the Meereen storyline could be tied by the time Arya cut ties with the Faceless Men, but even if it did, Dany and her people still have a long way to get to Braavos/Arya. How is Arya going to feed her people by the time they get to her? So while this theory could technically happen, I doubt it will.

My second theory involves the Iron Bank. I saw a great theory (can’t remember where, if anyone has a link please give it to me!) that the killing of Raff the Sweetling in the TWOW Mercy chapter was actually orchestrated by the Iron Bank. They paid the Faceless Men to make it appear like Raff was the one who killed Mercy (believable, since Raff is a known rapist and no one would think that such a young silly girl could take down a grown soldier). When Braavos will learn that an official from Westeros killed a sweet young actress after possibly raping her, it will cause an uproar and finally give the Iron Bank an excuse to cut ties with the Iron Throne and engage in martial repercussions to pay for the huge debt the crown owns them (and probably to have a better stranglehold on Westeros). So that would mean Arya didn’t actually went rogue (except when she said “Think so?”, but the FM has very little chance to hear about that), and it creates a link between Arya and the Iron Bank through the Faceless Men.

Now I think the Kindly Man very much expects Arya to leave the House of Black and White one day. He knows she can’t bring herself to erase her identity, and thus will never be a true Faceless Woman. But he also knows how valuable Arya Stark is, as the (apparent) sole successor of the North’s throne. And since he works with (for?) the Iron Bank, I wouldn’t be surprised if he told them who she is. To the Iron Bank, this would represent an incredible opportunity: get hold of the Six Kingdoms through the crown’s debt AND the North through Arya.

So once Arya leaves the FM, I can see them stepping in to offer their help with the rescuing of the wildlings, kind of like Illyrio helped Dany for the promise of Viserys paying him back once he gets on the Iron Throne, or like the Manderlys are trying to do with Rickon. They could offer food and shelter and means to go back to Westeros, thus creating a debt Arya would have to pay once she regains her place as the North’s heir. It would also explain why the Kindly Man would let her leave the HOBAW unharmed while she knows so many of their secrets, because she would still be working for him technically - as a pawn.

(Of course, this plan would fall short since Arya is not actually the only Stark alive, and she isn’t next in succession. I mean, she does have a lot of foreshadowing of ending Queen, but that’s another topic. I also doubt Arya would let herself be manipulated like this, or that the other Northern lords (and siblings) would be fine with that.)

In terms of narrative, I think it makes sense. For someone with such a large amount of leadership qualities, foreshadowings and experiences, she has been surprisingly removed from anything political (well, not as much removed than a bystander). I mean, Robb was King in the North, Jon Commander of the Night’s Watch, Bran is the Prince of Winterfell, Sansa has Littlefinger trying to make her queen from the Vale and Rickon has the Manderlys working to put him on the North’s throne. Every Stark kid has had people working to place them in positions of power and back in Winterfell (some with good intentions, some not), except for Arya. Yet she actually proved she would be a great leader. I think the Iron Bank could very much play this role in Arya’s storyline.

Anyway, here’s my (very long) answer. I hope this is what you expected!

[janiedean]

between jaime and theon, who do you think has the more well written redemption arc?

well, counting that imo both of them have arcs that are more identity than redemption in itself... if you want the short answer: theon, because while jaime’s deals with redemption... it’s more a reversed redemption arc, as in, it’s not about him redeeming himself, it’s about him realizing he’s always been a decent person all along. now, I had ranted about the subject already once so if you want the full version focused on jaime there’s the meta, but going into it again and comparing it with theon...

first thing we should probably take into account when comparing them: as someone else who sadly deleted since then, these books have exactly TWO instances of people doing a truly selfless heroic knightly grand gesture and those instances are a) theon saving jeynep, b) jaime going into the bear pit for brienne, which says a lot given that they’re perpetrated by two people that everyone in the narrative (and a lot of people outside) see as oathbreakers/assholes/people with no honor;

now, before we go back there... the thing is that while I think theon has an identity arc first and foremost (I mean he has chapter names corresponding to his identities let’s be real here), but it is more or less straight-up redemptive in the sense that it follows all the basic steps, ie theon does something wrong that he regrets more than just about anyone else at this point (betraying robb), realizes where he went wrong and what he wants from life and decides to be better than that. now mind that with theon it’s strongly interlinked with the identity arc, because he saves jeyne (his narrative redemptive moment) after realizing who he is and who he wants to be and what he wants from life, while his bad actions/betrayal were rooted in the fact that he had an identity crisis and was desperately trying to be what he thought his father wanted/didn’t want to deal with that situation/couldn’t admit to himself that he had with robb what he wanted from his family (acceptance/love/someone caring about him for himself/his personality, not his surname or his worth as a hostage or only surviving male son etc.). now, never mind the whole deal where (still imvho) theon and robb are foils in the sense that robb’s damning (narratively) moment was marrying jeynew while theon’s redemptive (narratively) was saving jeynep, he gains the narrative redemption the moment he does something selfless (ie saving jeyne as in someone no one gave a shit about) regardless of facing death because that’s what theon would have done (remember ‘theon greyjoy would have helped her but not reek?), when we can argue that his betrayal and previous fuck-ups weren’t exactly selfless but more desperate ways to assess who he thought he had to be. except that when he does that he fucks up, when he does what he really wanted to he does the heroic deed, therefore showing that he has the potential to be a more than decent person (which is most likely what robb saw in him), so his arc is both about finding his identity and redemption through accepting it;

so like... we can say that theon’s redemption arc, while tied to his identity arc, is pretty much straightforward;

now, the thing with jaime is: he doesn’t have a straight up redemption arc, because tbqh the only thing he’s done in these books that he should be redeemed from is pushing bran from the window (like guys the incest is nothing you need **redemption** from technically especially since it’s an abusive relationship where he’s not the abused part and I’ll die on that hill, killing aerys was just good sense and he wouldn’t have lied about tysha to tyrion if tywin hadn’t pushed him to do it by the way that’s abusive/manipulative as well and anything else is... about on par of what anyone else in these books has done). what jaime needs is to realize he’s his own person and not his sister and find his own way, and that realization comes through coming to terms with the fact that the person he is at the beginning of the books is not the person he wanted to be when he was young but he still has the potential to be that person and he actively strives for it and tries to do better, which.... isn’t exactly **redemption** clear-cut;

also the rest goes under the cut because this is long af sorry I have feelings on these two.

like, to make it extremely basic: jaime starts as a generally good person. 

now, before anyone harps at me, I’ll take a break from the checklist to say that it’s the text specifying it - he’s the only one in the family who genuinely loves tyrion when no one else would, as genna lannister put it

"Jaime," she said, tugging on his ear, "sweetling, I have known you since you were a babe at Joanna's breast. You smile like Gerion and fight like Tyg, and there's some of Kevan in you, else you would not wear that cloak . . . but Tyrion is Tywin's son, not you. I said so once to your father's face, and he would not speak to me for half a year. Men are such thundering great fools. Even the sort who come along once in a thousand years."

he has the good qualities from all the other lannister uncles/relatives but nothing of his father (I mean she mentions his smile, his strive for honor and being a good fighter, that’s... positive qualities), he’s put at the opposite, or I mean, as tyrion once put it:

My brother, Jaime, thirsts for battle, not for power. He's run from every chance he's had to rule.

and this when it was made clear in book one from tyrion’s povs that his opinion of jaime and cersei was wildly different, which would be hard if they were the same person. also:

That boy had wanted to be Ser Arthur Dayne, but someplace along the way he had become the Smiling Knight instead.

like. that’s jaime thinking about what happened to him since he joined the kingsguard. seems to me like he has a clue that something went wrong there.

anyway, back to the point: jaime starts as a good person. and a good person who wants to do good things in life, as in, becoming arthur dayne, ie a knight without stain or honor, and we all know that technically knighthood = positive things;

what happens is that since he goes into the kingsguard his picture gets destroyed - he does it on cersei’s advice and that’s what kickstarts their relationship for good (because the first time they have sex is when she proposes it to him and he accepts both for that and because he wants that kingsguard place in his romanticized vision of it, and we could talk for an hour of the fact that cersei actually had hoped to marry rhaegar just before, so if it actually had happened he’d have ended up without his name/inheritance/position and without cersei but nvm that), then he takes his job and finds out the king is out of his mind, that he can’t protect anyone he should (rhaella), has to watch people get burned alive/strangled/raped in front of him, copes by dissociating (which is like, basic ptsd trauma symptom in war veterans and he was fifteen-seventeen at that point), his picture of honor/valor/knighthood gets destroyed apparently beyond repair, he kills aerys to save everyone else after being put in an impossible position (because he was the only kingsguard in the entire castle which was a fairly stupid decision if you ask me) and then everyone decides he has shit for honor and sees him as the worst without bothering to ask and at that point he says fuck it and embraces it;

as in: he turns into the smiling knight (as he put it) by giving in to cynicism/nihilism and only worries about cersei/his family and says fuck it to his romantic notions even if he desperately wants to believe it and actually if you read his povs, going beyond the part where he’s too world-weary for his own good..... like honestly jaime lannister has the emotional maturity of a seventeen-year old which is pretty much showing that he was so traumatized by what went on with aerys that he basically never moved on from that and coped with it by a) not thinking about it, b) being angry about it when he did, c) embracing what others thought of him like ‘well you think I’m that bad fine have it your way’, which is also... basically teenage angst level but again: he hasn’t moved on from that;

(this while being into a codependent toxic af relationship with cersei that about a) annihilates his sense of identity because he thinks he’s the same as her when he’s all the contrary and acts the contrary, b) is not sexually healthy because being like that with one person only and those premises is not healthy I mean guys fuck’s sake this guy is older than thirty and couldn’t process getting hard when seeing a naked woman, it’s a problem, c) doesn’t help him get out of his issues but actually makes them worse)

now, back to the matter: at his lowest narrative point he pushes bran from the window, except thatThe man looked over at the woman. “The things I do for love,” he said with loathing. He gave Bran a shove.now, everyone ignores that bran himself perceives that jaime said that with loathing, so he knows he’s doing something extremely shitty, but he’s embracing it as necessary in order to save his hide and cersei’s and also because he’s embraced this concept that whatever he does people will think him honorless so what’s the damned point?

then, after two other massive trauma episodes ie being imprisoned for an entire year and losing his sword hand ie his livelihood, he has to face what he wants and who he wants to be because the fact that he doesn’t have the hand a) takes his fighting skills away from him, b) takes what makes him cersei’s exact mirror, c) forces him to rely on other people in the immediate aftermath and the fact that throughout this whole thing he’s stuck with brienne ie someone who reminds him of the person he wanted to be and who actually manages to uphold those ideals and keeps on doing it regardless gives him a wake-up call and makes him realize that he actually... did still want to be the person he used to be;

so like..... the arc jaime is having right now isn’t 1) I’m a bad person, 2) I did something heinous, 3) I realized that and I repented, 4) I’m trying to atone for it, which is the technical redemption arc as it is and which is more true for theon than for him. the arc jaime is having is 1) I was a good person, 2) I turned into someone I didn’t want to be after traumatic events, 3) I did something awful also as the result of years spent not dealing with it and I regret it, 4) I lost a part of me that was to me 99% of what I thought I was good for, 5) I realized that I turned into someone I didn’t want to be, 6) I’m trying to do better and be that person;

btw, before the argument comes like BUT HE NEVER REPENTED:

If truth be told, Jaime had come to rue heaving Brandon Stark out that window. Cersei had given him no end of grief afterward, when the boy refused to die. "He was seven, Jaime," she'd berated him. "Even if he understood what he saw, we should have been able to frighten him into silence.""I didn't think you'd want—"  (mind that here it’s even BEFORE the hand loss and his answer is that he acted based on what he thought she wanted, now I’m not saying she is to blame but that since he was acting thinking that he was doing what she wanted then he didn’t act doing what he would have done if it hadn’t factored into his decision)

"Well, he's beyond suspicion now." Robert's death still left a bitter taste in Jaime's mouth. It should have been me who killed him, not Cersei. "I only wished he'd died at my hands." When I still had two of them. "If I'd let kingslaying become a habit, as he liked to say, I could have taken you as my wife for all the world to see. I'm not ashamed of loving you, only of the things I've done to hide it. That boy at Winterfell . . .""Did I tell you to throw him out the window? If you'd gone hunting as I begged you, nothing would have happened. But no, you had to have me, you could not wait until we returned to the city."

I mean, he says he’s ashamed of it, not me. but like, that’s someone trying to do better than before and wanting to be a better person and going past his trauma (and actually he matures a lot in between asos and adwd so it’s obvious he’s somehow gotten unstuck from his aerys-related issues);

so like..... going back to the point: theon actually wants to actively do something to atone for his betrayal or wishes he could, and while saving jeyne is not what he probably thought as in ‘atoning for having betrayed robb’, it was narratively, because the pay-off is that he’s free of his abuser, knows who he is and who he wants to be and has solved his identity issues and can only go forward. on the other hand, jaime isn’t seeing his previous misdeeds as something he’s actively searching atonement for, and it’s less clear-cut because theon is moooreee or less a straight line, jaime’s having to deal with wanting to act in a certain way but circumstances throwing him back (ie he wants to try and have a relationship with tommen, cersei sends him away; he doesn’t want to break his vow to cat but has to go to riverrun anyway; he doesn’t want to raise arms against them so he bluffs with the trebuchet baby which makes everyone assume the worst of him and works because of that, but on the side he tries to do better see the deal with pia, sending brienne to look for sansa actively going against cersei’s orders, freeing tyrion AGAIN against cersei’s orders and telling him the truth about tysha and so on);

but at the end of it: 1. theon is a generally okay person who has postured a lot as a defense mechanism while being a hostage, starts with an identity crisis that leads to his wrong/bad actions that eventually contribute to causing robb’s death (admittedly I think that the red wedding was a go anyway bc it was tywin scheming it but theon fake killing robb’s brothers > robb sleeping with jeyne > perfect excuse for frey to defect) and to his own torture and abuse at ramsay’s hands, he has to work through his issues, deeply regrets his actions, realizes who he wants to be and eventually does something heroic the moment he comes to terms with it as his big narrative redemptive moment.2. jaime used to be a good person who after going through heavy trauma has stopped giving a fuck about his old dreams and embraced his worst sides also as a coping/defense mechanism [while being stuck in an abusive relationship that annihilates his sense of self], did something heinous at his lowest point, underwent even more trauma that forced him to reshape his entire life, met someone who showed him he could try to be the person he wanted to be/was before aerys, regrets his actions but doesn’t specifically look for redemption through them but actively searches it after (as in: he doesn’t want to be redeemed for trying to kill bran but he still upholds his vow to catelyn and tries to save at least her daughter by sending brienne ie the one true knight in the room after her, frees tyrion and comes clean with him etc) and tries to be a better person all along;

this also is symbolized by when they have their heroic moments as described above, because theon saving jeyne is at the end of his adwd arc, which works as a good bookend for his story and for his identity arc, while jaime jumping in the pit for brienne is in the middle of asos/in the middle of his asos arc, so while jeyne’s rescue is theon’s ending point/crowning achievement, jaime’s rescuing of brienne is his starting point. he doesn’t do it as the crowning achievement of his arc - hell, his arc isn’t even over within asos -, and while it’s not the first thing he does actively post-hand loss (he saves her from being raped and tells her about aerys), but it’s the first grand gesture he makes and he doesn’t even know why he does it but he feels like he has to and goes for it without even blinking twice, while theon does ponder it. like, theon’s redemption (narratively) has been earned and he knows he’s done that:

"Don't you call him that." Then the words came spilling out of Theon in a rush. He tried to tell her all of it, about Reek and the Dreadfort and Kyra and the keys, how Lord Ramsay never took anything but skin unless you begged for it. He told her how he'd saved the girl, leaping from the castle wall into the snow. "Weflew. Let Abel make a song of that, we flew." Then he had to say who Abel was, and talk about the washerwomen who weren't truly washerwomen. By then Theon knew how strange and incoherent all this sounded, yet somehow the words would not stop. He was cold and sick and tired... and weak, so weak, so very weak.

like.... theon says to let abel make a song of that. he knows he’s done something song-worthy. he’s 100% aware of it, post-fact. jaime really is not - he doesn’t think of his bear pit moment as a song-worthy moment (but brienne herself does:“Ser Jaime?” Even in soiled pink satin and torn lace, Brienne looked more like a man in a gown than a proper woman. “I am grateful, but … you were well away. Why come back?” vsthe griffins on his cloak rippled and blurred and changed to lions. Jaime! she wanted to cry, Jaime, come back for me!, but her tongue lay on the floor by the rose, drowned in blood.like, brienne ie the person he saved has definitely interiorized it as A Total Song-Worthy Moment)and the fact that he ended it with the whole I dreamed of you thing which is honestly not the least romantic thing he could have said doesn’t mean that he hasn’t... gone for it knowing what he was doing, differently from theon, and again: theon’s grand gesture is what seals his narrative redemption after he finds out who he really is, jaime’s is what kickstarts his own search for the person he used to be and that he wants to be again and that he actually forgot/thought he couldn’t be, which... is the exact contrary of male!cersei as he has thought until now.

so like... imo theon’s a straight-up redemption arc within an identity arc that deconstructs a bunch of tropes (traitor first and foremost), jaime is a reverse identity arc which includes redemptive themes but where the driving force isn’t his need for redemption, is the fact that he needs to reconcile the person he has the potential of being with a) growing the hell up, b) detaching himself from cersei, c) finding his sense of self, d) overcoming his trauma. and while theon has in common with him the part where he has to find himself and overcome trauma, I think that his arc is really more redemption-driven than jaime. theon wants to atone and finds out he can because of the person he actually is, jaime needs to realize he’s his own person and to do the things he wants to, not what others think of him.

so, to go back to my first point: for this whole heap of reasons, I think that as a redemption arc theon’s is better because it’s... a redemption arc in itself, while jaime’s is basically second coming of age with redemptive themes so I wouldn’t call it like that. I mean, I hate this whole discourse about IS HE ON A REDEMPTION ARC OR NOT bc to me he’s on a self-discovering arc that includes doing things that redeem his past actions, but he’s not actively looking for it in the usual terms. that said I need to specify a few things:

I personally think theon in himself is the best written and conceived character in these books but that jaime is right behind him and they’re technically martin’s greatest literary achievements as characters so it’s not like if I say that theon’s better written I think jaime’s is badly written, ALL THE CONTRARY;

I also think that theon beats jaime for originality and identity arc (not redemption bc jaime’s arc is not redemptive imo as stated), but jaime as a pov is tbqh really a gem when it comes to a) dealing with military-like ptsd symptoms, b) long-lasting emotional abuse, c) using sarcasm as a coping method/defense mechanism, d) lessons in How To Not Deal With Trauma (ie not thinking about it), because while ofc there are parts that are not realistic (ie: someone with jaime’s background should have had a nervous breakdown of horrid proportions a long time before the series started tbh) the fact that people tend to brush it off without realizing it just because he looks fine on the outside tbh says a lot about how people overlook trauma in men when they happen to not show it in the reader’s face/in someone’s face (no one can deny it with theon and sandor, because they show it physically, or tyrion because he talks about it and he’s aware of it, and whoever usually gives it to jaime only says ‘ah it starts after the hand loss). and it’s not george’s fault because imvho he wrote it perfectly given that jaime himself isn’t aware of it, but I just find it very telling;

I think both of them are really great narratives when it comes to exploring reaction to life-lasting trauma and abuse (except that for theon is straight-up physical, jaime is mental/emotional) and both arcs in that sense are written really well;

I also don’t know how fair it is to compare them for the same themes also because jaime’s a fairly reliable pov (sarcastic but reliable, he's not the lying to himself type) while theon’s wholly unreliable/has a journey towards reliable-ness more or less but idk if we’re there so that’s that to take into account too;

I also don’t think anyone in these books has a clear-cut anything arc because it’s all tropes deconstruction and nothing is ever played straight-up, so... again, that’s the opinion but I don’t think it says much as a whole because neither of them is a redemption arc that follows the tropes (I mean theon’s is straight-up but his kinda character - ie traitor who betrays the hero - is not usually given it, but I ranted about it in the above meta).

... this probably went way beyond your question, but here, have a rant.

[jedimaesteryoda]

#MeToo in A Song of Ice and Fire

A Song of Ice and Fire has become one of the most popular and highly acclaimed fantasy series today. Martin’s magnum opus fits in the pantheon of high-fantasy alongside Tolkien’s Lord of the Rings trilogy and Jordan’s Wheel of Time.

It became increasingly popularized after it was adapted into the award winning series on HBO “Game of Thrones.” What helped to make the book series unique when compared to other high-fantasy stories was its deconstructive nature. Viewers of the show note its showing of nudity and gore, which one usually doesn’t see in fantasy on-screen. Many fantasy writers who set their books in a medieval setting, Tolkien included, portray medieval society as idealized and harmonious, but Martin chooses to display some of the harsh realities of a medieval world from the injustices of a society with a rigid class structure to the brutal realities of warfare with atrocities committed by both sides. For all intents and purposes, I am going to be focusing on the book series, and not the show based off it.

The subject I am going to focus on is how the series relates to #MeToo. #MeToo was originally a movement found by social activist and community organizer, Tarana Burke, in 2006 that promoted “empowerment through empathy” among women in underprivileged communities of color who suffered sexual abuse. Tarana was inspired to use the term after a 13 year-old girl confided in her that she had been sexually assaulted, and Tarana had been unable to respond, wishing she had replied simply “Me too.” In 2017, actress Alyssa Milano used the hashtag to spread awareness about sexual harassment and assault during the time victims of Hollywood mogul Harvey Weintein’s sexual abuse started coming out. The hashtag exploded with women coming with their stories of sexual harassment and assault both online and in public. A number of powerful male figures ended up getting outed by the victims of their sexual indiscretions from Hollywood stars and media moguls to politicians and Supreme Court Justice nominees.

I know at first glance for people who just see the show, #MeToo sounds like a weird subject given the amount of sex and cases of sexual assault on-screen (I blame Benioff and Weiss for scenes like Jaime and Cersei in the sept) and some in the text. However, numerous female characters, including point-of-view (POV) characters, are subject to moments that would fit in with #MeToo. The reader gets to see the threats faced by women in a highly patriarchal, restrictive society across age and class lines, and see how instructive it can be with regards to sexual abuse cases in real-life. There are plenty of cases in the series, but I am going to focus on a few. 

Sansa Stark

Let us start with the POV character Sansa Stark, especially since the iconic phrase “Me Too” was inspired by the sexual abuse of a young girl. Sansa starts the series as a naïve, eleven year-old girl, who like many girls her age, even in the real world, has dreams of romance and lives in a dream world. She is in love with her betrothed, Joffrey, and has a rivalry with her less-than-conventional sister, Arya. However, her dream world later turns into a nightmare world with Cersei initiating a coup, and her betrothed beheading her father, and having her beaten when she displeases him. Throughout the series, Sansa suffers from numerous acts of sexual harassment, sexual assault and attempts at sexual assault.

As father of the realm, Joffrey took the place of Lord Eddard Stark. Sansa stood stiff as a lance as his hands came over her shoulders to fumble with the clasp of her cloak. One of them brushed her breast and lingered to give it a little squeeze.

-A Storm of Swords, Sansa III

"A king can have other women. Whores. My father did. One of the Aegons did too. The third one, or the fourth. He had lots of whores and lots of bastards." As they whirled to the music, Joff gave her a moist kiss. "My uncle will bring you to my bed whenever I command it."

Sansa shook her head. "He won't."

"He will, or I'll have his head. That King Aegon, he had any woman he wanted, whether they were married or no."

-A Storm of Swords, Sansa III

"Don't be sad, Sansa, once I've gotten Queen Margaery with child I'll visit your bedchamber and show my little uncle how it's done."

-A Storm of Swords, Sansa IV

When Joffrey is unclasping her cloak for her wedding, he takes the opportunity to grope her. When they dance, he forces a kiss on her, and tells her that he would make her his whore. Essentially, he tells her that he plans to not simply sleep with, but rape her whenever he wished. He also makes rape jokes in public to Sansa’s face. Sansa doesn’t retaliate or reprimand him for an obvious reason: he has his Kingsguard beat her whenever she opened her mouth against him or displeased him. Another reason is the same reason no one else present in those situations reprimands him: because he is the king, the head of state, one of the most powerful people in the Seven Kingdoms. However, he is also still a minor under Westerosi laws, and until he comes of age, governance is given to two people: the Regent and the Hand of the King. The Hand, his grandfather Lord Tywin Lannister, has a fearsome reputation that discourages others from reprimanding his grandson for his behavior, and the same could be said for the Queen Regent, his mother Cersei, who would never approve of people reprimanding her son in any way. Neither of the two adults who could reprimand Joffrey really care about Sansa either. Sansa on the other hand has no power as a ward and hostage, or rather prisoner, in the royal court of King’s Landing. None of the adults are willing to help her with the only exception being Tyrion. Essentially, Sansa has little to no protection from Joffrey’s unwanted sexual indiscretions.

Sansa is later rescued from King’s Landing, and is taken to the Vale in hiding by Lord Petyr Baelish, also known as Littlefinger. While no longer having to put up with Joffrey’s sexual indiscretions, Sansa isn’t any safer with Baelish.

"I told you that nothing could please me more than to help you with your castle. I fear that was a lie as well. Something else would please me more." He stepped closer. "This."

Sansa tried to step back, but he pulled her into his arms and suddenly he was kissing her. Feebly, she tried to squirm, but only succeeded in pressing herself more tightly against him. His mouth was on hers, swallowing her words. He tasted of mint. For half a heartbeat she yielded to his kiss . . . before she turned her face away and wrenched free. "What are you doing?"

Petyr straightened his cloak. "Kissing a snow maid."

-A Storm of Swords, Sansa VII

"I did not expect you back so soon," she said. "I am glad you've come."

"I would never have known it from the kiss you gave me." He pulled her closer, caught her face between his hands, and kissed her on the lips for a long time. "Now that's the sort of kiss that says welcome home. See that you do better next time."

"Yes, Father." She could feel herself blushing.

-A Feast for Crows, Alayne II

Petyr, a man aged in his late thirties, forces a kiss on a thirteen year-old girl more than once. The first time she made it clear to him she didn’t like it, and he continues in spite of it. He is Lord Protector of the Vale with the household of the Eyrie under his control, and she has hardly any friends at court. I’m not even mentioning that he is essentially sexually grooming her throughout their relationship. Sexual grooming is the practice where an adult influences a child so they can be able to draw them into a sexual relationship. There are six stages according to forensic psychiatrist Dr. Michael Welner.

Stage 1: Targeting the victim

The offender targets a victim by sizing up the child's vulnerability—emotional neediness, isolation and lower self-confidence. Children with less parental oversight are more desirable prey. Petyr clearly targeted Sansa since they met. Sansa loses her father, her mother is far away and later dies, had her only friend Jeyne taken from her. She is isolated at the Red Keep with no real friends, and the constant abuse from the Lannister family lowered her own self-confidence.

Stage 2: Gaining the victim's trust

The sex offender gains trust by watching and gathering information about the child, getting to know his needs and how to fill them. In this regard, sex offenders mix effortlessly with responsible caretakers. Petyr knows that Sansa is a romantic, and fond of chivalrous knights and uses Ser Dontos as a go-between under the guise of one. Petyr is a member of the Lannisters’ small council, who are her guardians for the first three books.

Stage 3: Filling a need

Once the sex offender begins to fill the child's needs, that adult may assume noticeably more importance in the child's life and may become idealized. Gifts, extra attention, affection may distinguish one adult in particular. Petyr knows that Sansa wants a knight who will protect her, and so uses Ser Dontos to pretend to help her, acting as a “true knight.” He also acts as her protector and savior, taking her away from King’s Landing, and hiding her from the Lannisters. He acts as her guardian as well, knowing she lost her father.

Stage 4: Isolating the child

The grooming sex offender uses the developing special relationship with the child to create situations in which they are alone together. This isolation further reinforces a special connection. Petyr takes her away from King’s Landing to a ship where they share a small cabin, his tower that he rules, and later the Eyrie. As the Lord Protector of the Vale, the Eyrie is under his control.

Stage 5: Sexualizing the relationship

At a stage of sufficient emotional dependence and trust, the offender progressively sexualizes the relationship. Desensitization occurs through talking, pictures, even creating situations in which both offender and victim are naked. When teaching a child, the grooming sex offender has the opportunity to shape the child's sexual preferences and can manipulate what a child finds exciting and extend the relationship in this way. The child comes to see her/himself as a more sexual being and to define the relationship with the offender in more sexual and special terms.

Petyr kisses Sansa in the godswood, and later, kisses her again when they are at the Gates of the Moon. When teaching her about relationships, he also tells her that “young girls were always happiest with older men. ‘Innocence and experience make for a perfect marriage.’”

Stage 6: Maintaining control

Once the sex abuse is occurring, offenders commonly use secrecy and blame to maintain the child's continued participation and silence, particularly because the sexual activity may cause the child to withdraw from the relationship. Children in these entangled relationships confront threats to blame them, to end the relationship and to end the emotional and material needs they associate with the relationship. The child may feel that the loss of the relationship and the consequences of exposing it will humiliate and render them even more unwanted.

Petyr maintains Sansa’s silence through the fact he is providing her a place to hide and protection. If she wanted to run away, where would she go? She is a fugitive wanted for regicide with a large reward posted for her capture, and Petyr’s plan made her an accessory to regicide. Her home of Winterfell is burned and all her family believed dead with the North having come under the rule of the Boltons who are backed by the Lannisters. The need for protection he provides and the potential loss of a sanctuary or place to call home is her reason for not leaving. She was also present when Petyr pushed Lysa out the moon door to her death, again, making her an accessory to murder. Though, he likely won’t, he could always threaten to turn her over to the Lannisters, which would be a death sentence. In other words, Sansa has nowhere else to go, and at Littlefinger’s mercy. She can’t appeal to anyone to stop his acts of sexual assault.

Of course, Petyr wasn’t the first person in the Vale to make unwanted sexual advances to Sansa, that dishonor goes to a singer named Marillion.

"Alayne." Her aunt's singer stood over her. "Sweet Alayne. I am Marillion. I saw you come in from the rain. The night is chill and wet. Let me warm you."

The old dog raised his head and growled, but the singer gave him a cuff and sent him slinking off, whimpering.

"Marillion?" she said, uncertain. "You are . . . kind to think of me, but . . . pray forgive me. I am very tired."

"And very beautiful. All night I have been making songs for you in my head. A lay for your eyes, a ballad for your lips, a duet to your breasts. I will not sing them, though. They were poor things, unworthy of such beauty." He sat on her bed and put his hand on her leg. "Let me sing to you with my body instead."

She caught a whiff of his breath. "You're drunk."

"I never get drunk. Mead only makes me merry. I am on fire." His hand slipped up to her thigh. "And you as well."

"Unhand me. You forget yourself."

"Mercy. I have been singing love songs for hours. My blood is stirred. And yours, I know . . . there's no wench half so lusty as one bastard born. Are you wet for me?"

"I'm a maiden," she protested.

"Truly? Oh, Alayne, Alayne, my fair maid, give me the gift of your innocence. You will thank the gods you did. I'll have you singing louder than the Lady Lysa."

Sansa jerked away from him, frightened. "If you don't leave me, my au—my father will hang you. Lord Petyr."

"Littlefinger?" He chuckled. "Lady Lysa loves me well, and I am Lord Robert's favorite. If your father offends me, I will destroy him with a verse." He put a hand on her breast, and squeezed. "Let's get you out of these wet clothes. You wouldn't want them ripped, I know. Come, sweet lady, heed your heart—"

-A Storm of Swords, Sansa VI

Let’s go through what happened step-by-step. He starts by coming onto her in a creepy, no-so-subtle way, and she replies that she’s tired, basically signaling that she isn’t interested. He then directly propositions her, and responds by inappropriately touching her leg. He then gropes her thigh, which alone is an act of sexual assault. She responds by telling him to stop, and he acts like he doesn’t care. She protests that she is a virgin, and he continues to press, saying that she would like it if she lost her virginity to him. Desperate, she then resorts to threatening him as a way to get him to stop, saying he would be hanged if he tried to force himself on her. He responds by saying that his patrons are the ruling Lady and the young Lord of the Eyrie who hold him high in their esteem, protecting him from punishment and retribution by her father. He then escalates by groping her breast, and is clearly intending to rape her. He doesn’t see it that way; like so many rapists, he is telling himself as well as her that in spite of what she says, she actually wants it and she would like it. It was only Ser Lothor Brune’s intervention that stopped him. Of course, Brune’s protection is selective as he isn’t able to stop Littlefinger’s advances given Littlefinger is his employer, and only protected Sansa that night on Littlefinger’s orders.

Sansa found herself in situations many girls unfortunately find themselves in. Many young girls have been preyed upon by older male figures who have charge over them from male guardians to schoolteachers. The younger they are, the more vulnerable they are, and the more easily they can be threatened and manipulated into staying silent regarding their abuse. Sexual grooming contains one of the largest power imbalances since it is between an adult and a child. There are plenty of cases: serial predator Robert Kelly and Aaliyah (27 and 15 respectively), President Emmanuel Macron and his wife Bridgette (15 and 40, she was his high school teacher) and Jerry Lee Lewis and his cousin, Myra Brown (23 and 13, she still believed in Santa Claus).

Let’s look at the issue in the case of an older, more powerful woman.

Cersei Lannister

Cersei is a POV character by the fourth book, and isn’t a character one would usually call sympathetic. She is narcissistic, cruel and abusive with no qualms about killing innocents, even children. She even went so far as to have Sansa’s direwolf killed for something her sister’s direwolf did. We know that she hated her royal husband, Robert, as he was blatantly unfaithful, not even keeping his affairs discrete, and on their wedding knight he whispered his late betrothed’s name into her ear. However, we later learned of another reason she had to hate him.

use her as a man would use her, the way Robert would use her when the drink was in him, and she was unable to bring him off with hand or mouth.

Those had been the worst nights, lying helpless underneath him as he took his pleasure, stinking of wine and grunting like a boar. Usually he rolled off and went to sleep as soon as it was done, and was snoring before his seed could dry upon her thighs. She was always sore afterward, raw between the legs, her breasts painful from the mauling he would give them. The only time he'd ever made her wet was on their wedding night  . . . For Robert, those nights never happened. Come morning he remembered nothing, or so he would have had her believe. Once, during the first year of their marriage, Cersei had voiced her displeasure the next day. "You hurt me," she complained. He had the grace to look ashamed. "It was not me, my lady," he said in a sulky sullen tone, like a child caught stealing apple cakes from the kitchen. "It was the wine. I drink too much wine." To wash down his admission, he reached for his horn of ale. As he raised it to his mouth, she smashed her own horn in his face, so hard she chipped a tooth. Years later at a feast, she heard him telling a serving wench how he'd cracked the tooth in a mêlée. Well, our marriage was a mêlée, she reflected, so he did not lie.

The rest had all been lies, though. He did remember what he did to her at night, she was convinced of that. She could see it in his eyes. He only pretended to forget; it was easier to do that than to face his shame. Deep down Robert Baratheon was a coward. In time the assaults did grow less frequent. During the first year he took her at least once a fortnight; by the end it was not even once a year. He never stopped completely, though. Sooner or later there would always come a night when he would drink too much and want to claim his rights. What shamed him in the light of day gave him pleasure in the darkness.

-A Feast for Crows, Cersei VII

Robert was an alcoholic, and there were times when he got drunk and then forced himself on his wife. The first year of their marriage was marked by Robert’s marital rapes at a frightening frequency of once a fortnight or every two weeks. She couldn’t divorce him, since this is a society where the concept of divorce doesn’t exist, and annulment was also out of the question since neither her husband nor father would allow it. Robert was also king, and being the ultimate authority she couldn’t have him arrested. She didn’t turn to her father given even though he was one of the most powerful lords in Westeros, he was on the other side of the continent, and even so, he had arranged the marriage, and was more concerned with his grandchildren sitting the Iron Throne and the glory of his house than his daughter. She didn’t tell her brother Jaime either given she knew he would respond by trying to kill Robert and that would mean Jaime would die as well.

Even being a powerful figure like the Queen of Westeros who was the daughter of a powerful lord, and the sister of the best swordsman in the Seven Kingdoms couldn’t protect her from the dangers of rape. Essentially, she was trapped in her abusive marriage. The only way out was by murdering her husband (admittedly not the only reason she had Robert killed, there were clearly other reasons as well).

"Please. Have you given any thought to what Joffrey will do when I tell him you murdered his father to bed his mother?"

"It was not like that!" Lancel protested, horrified.

"No? What was it like, pray?"

"The queen gave me the strongwine! Your own father Lord Tywin, when I was named the king's squire, he told me to obey her in everything."

"Did he tell you to fuck her too?" Look at him. Not quite so tall, his features not so fine, and his hair is sand instead of spun gold, yet still . . . even a poor copy of Jaime is sweeter than an empty bed, I suppose. "No, I thought not."

"I never meant . . . I only did as I was bid, I . . ."

-A Clash of Kings, Tyrion VII

"Did you force her [Cersei]?"

"No! I [Lancel] loved her. I wanted to protect her."

-A Feast for Crows, Jaime IV

Cersei’s relationship with sexual abuse is made complicated by the fact the she abused her position as queen to take advantage of her teenaged cousin and Robert’s squire, Lancel. She proves to be a victimizer as well as victim. It is something not as commonly seen, as it is usually a powerful man using his power over a woman below him in the power structure, but there are cases where the genders in this situation are reversed. Lancel was consenting, but he was no older than sixteen and he was very inexperienced as opposed to Cersei, a woman in her thirties who has more experience. This is shown is his comments on their relationship in A Feast for Crows, where Lancel says that he “loved her” and “wanted to protect her.” Those aren’t the words of a mature man, but a vulnerable, inexperienced teenage boy. She slept with him for both sexual gratification, and as a way to manipulate him into being her pawn, exchanging sex for loyalty. In this world, it would be a clear case of statutory rape, but even if one overlooks the fact that sixteen is considered the age of maturity in Westeros, she is also guilty of professional exploitation and workplace harassment. A CEO would risking losing his position if he did that with an intern, and with one US President, Bill Clinton, it got him impeached.

We saw a similar case in the real-world with Asia Argento, herself one of Harvey Weinstein’s victims, being accused by a young actor, Jimmy Bennett, of sexual assaulting him in a hotel room when he was 17 years-old.

It’s not the only time Cersei commits sexual assault.

She wondered what it would feel like to suckle on those breasts, to lay the Myrish woman on her back and push her legs apart and use her as a man would use her, the way Robert would use her when the drink was in him, and she was unable to bring him off with hand or mouth.

Those had been the worst nights, lying helpless underneath him as he took his pleasure, stinking of wine and grunting like a boar. Usually he rolled off and went to sleep as soon as it was done, and was snoring before his seed could dry upon her thighs. She was always sore afterward, raw between the legs, her breasts painful from the mauling he would give them. The only time he'd ever made her wet was on their wedding night.

 . . . 

Cersei cupped the other woman's breast. Softly at first, hardly touching, feeling the warmth of it beneath her palm, the skin as smooth as satin. She gave it a gentle squeeze, then ran her thumbnail lightly across the big dark nipple, back and forth and back and forth until she felt it stiffen. When she glanced up, Taena's eyes were open. "Does that feel good?" she asked.

"Yes," said Lady Merryweather.

"And this?" Cersei pinched the nipple now, pulling on it hard, twisting it between her fingers.

The Myrish woman gave a gasp of pain. "You're hurting me." "It's just the wine. I had a flagon with my supper, and another with the widow Stokeworth. I had to drink to keep her calm." She twisted Taena's other nipple too, pulling until the other woman gasped. "I am the queen. I mean to claim my rights."

"Do what you will." Taena's hair was as black as Robert's, even down between her legs, and when Cersei touched her there she found her hair all sopping wet, where Robert's had been coarse and dry. "Please," the Myrish woman said, "go on, my queen. Do as you will with me. I'm yours."

-A Feast for Crows, Cersei VII

Cersei in this scene is intent on re-enacting her assaults at the hands of Robert, only this time she is the victimizer. One can clearly see this with the line “I am the queen. I mean to claim my rights,” and blame her actions on “just the wine,” using the same terminology she used to describe Robert’s rapes as well as Robert’s excuses for the rapes. She starts when Taena is asleep, and unable to give consent. Taena does give what would appear to be consent when awake, but is she in any position to refuse? Taena had hardly any agency in that situation at all as Cersei clearly wasn’t going to take “no” for an answer, and she is the Queen Regent, the head of government, while Taena is there only at her pleasure. Cersei has Taena’s life and likely that of her family in her hands, and Taena also knows how harsh and unforgiving Cersei can be.  

Cersei’s assault of Taena shows that one doesn’t necessarily need to be a man to engage in harassment, and even women can engage in it against other women. There is a case where HSBC executive Eileen Hedges, a heterosexual married woman who like Cersei rose to a high-powered position in a male-dominated environment, systematically harassed her subordinate, Jill. When Jill threatened to quit, Eileen responded that she had Jill’s career in her hands and could respond by telling her potential employers of her affairs at HSBC, hurting her chances of finding work outside her current job. Behavior like the kind Eileen displayed also happens since the people who witness it are afraid to come forward given they could face retaliation as well.

Being a victim of abuse doesn’t stop her from being an abuser. As someone who hasn’t had much control over her life with her father and husband making choices for her, she gets to be the one in control in this situation, and exercise power over another individual. Sexual assault ultimately is about power with regards to who can perpetrate it against whom.

Instances among the Smallfolk

The two people I’ve mentioned, Sansa and Cersei, are both highborn ladies, the daughters of powerful lords who were Wardens. We so far have talked about sexual assault and harassment only through the experience of members of the upper class. When it comes to smallfolk, they are generally more vulnerable to rape than highborn. Highborn ladies of ruling families have swords to defend their honor as well as chivalry while lowborn women don’t.

"Aye. My mother was a washerwoman at Cider Hall till one of milord's sons raped her. Makes me a sort o' brown apple Fossoway, the way I see it."

-A Dance with Dragons, The Lost Lord

Franklyn Flowers’s mother worked at Cider Hall, and was raped by one of her employers. She likely wasn’t able to press charges against him, given the judge who would be presiding over the case would be her liege, the Knight of Cider Hall, who was her attacker’s father. The other judge she could appeal her case to would be the Fossoways’ liege lord, Lord Tyrell. Both her attacker and his father undoubtedly knew Lord Tyrell personally, and Tyrell likely wouldn’t have wanted to alienate his bannerman by punishing his son. It would have been Fossoway’s word against hers, and there is a good chance Tyrell would have been likely to either dismiss the case or acquit him. The Knight of Cider Hall, by virtue of being her liege, is also her landlord, and her rapist could potentially retaliate by having his father evict her family, leaving them unemployed and homeless. He could also visit her home with some of his castle’s garrison to intimidate them.

Warning Spoilers for The Winds of Winter ahead

“I have not been raped, if that is what you’re asking,” the old woman said. “Some of the serving girls have been less fortunate. Married or unmarried, the men make no distinctions. “

“No one’s been doing any raping,” insisted Young John Mudd. “Connington won’t have that. We follow orders.”

Chain nodded. “Some girls was persuaded, might be.”

“The same way our smallfolk were persuaded to give you all their crops. Melons or maidenheads, it’s all the same to your sort. If you want it, you take it.”

-The Winds of Winter, Arianne II

When the Golden Company occupies Mistwood, Lady Mertyns states that serving girls at the castle are raped by some of the mercenaries. Mudd replies to the accusations of rape by denying them, and Chain does the same by saying they were “persuaded.” Well, how hard would it be for an armed man who won’t take “no” for an answer to persuade a defenseless serving girl? Their attackers are literally armed, and could just force the girls at the point of a sword or a dagger. If the girls tried to have their attackers charged, their case wouldn’t be brought to who would usually be the judge in this case, Lady Mertyns, who would undoubtedly have been sympathetic towards them, but the Golden Company who has the estate under occupation and thus, final authority. The officers in the Golden Company would be the ones hearing the case, and if the comments of the serjeants are anything to go by, it would just be dismissed. That is without saying that the girls, like many victims of rape and sexual assault, would have to deal with the fear of retaliation by their attackers and their cohorts for coming forward.

Conclusion:

With all these #MeToo situations in A Song of Ice and Fire, the factor in common that played a huge role in how sexual abuse was perpetrated and the abusers were able to get away with it was power dynamics. The perpetrators of sexual abuse are either powerful men (or women in Cersei’s case) or protected by powerful individuals and/or institutions whether it be the feudal hierarchy or the Golden Company. In Sansa and Cersei’s cases, their abusers were the most powerful figures in a feudal society: kings. No king has ever been arrested for anything. The smallfolk women were preyed upon by either a well-connected, highborn man like Fossoway or mercenaries serving in the company that controlled the area. Just to give one example in how power dynamics works, in the case of Marillion, Sansa was posing as Petyr’s bastard daughter, Alayne, and in the Vale, as the bastard daughter of the smallest of lords, the singer with the support of House Arryn has more power and influence between the two. However, there is a good chance Marillion wouldn’t have tried it if he knew who she actually was. As the trueborn daughter of House Stark and (supposed) heiress to Winterfell as well as niece and cousin to the Lady and Lord of the Eyrie respectively, the power dynamic shifts in her favor.

This is a pattern we can often see in the real world, especially in situations of workplace abuse. Serial abuser Harvey Weinstein was protected by his status as a powerful Hollywood mogul with high-profile connections going as far as the Clintons while the women he preyed upon were generally young actresses whose careers he could threaten. Roger Ailes was the Chairman and CEO of Fox News and Fox News Television Stations where news anchors like Gretchen Carlson, Megyn Kelly and Andrea Tantaros worked (all of whom were harassed by him). Sexual abuse and harassment is very much about power, as in many cases, the abusers have the connections and status to shield them from potential consequences for their actions while the abused are usually deficient in these things when compared to their abusers. It is often perpetrated by powerful individuals against their subordinates, people below them in the corporate hierarchy. The victims are almost never people above the abusers in the corporate hierarchy who could potentially threaten their careers. And like in Westeros, heads of state in the modern world have been abusers, including US Presidents. 

The women in the book series were afraid to come forward out of not just the fear of their claims being dismissed by authority figures, but potential retaliation from their attackers and their associates best exemplified by Sansa knowing she would be beaten by Joffrey’s Kingsguard if she did. Tantaros complained about Ailes’s sexual harassment to executives, and it only resulted in her facing retaliation by being demoted and then taken off the air. Eliza Dushku confronted her “Bull” show co-star and lead, Michael Weatherly, over his uncomfortable behavior such as comments about her appearance, a rape joke and a comment on a threesome. It ended up in her character being written off the show and her being fired. Danielle Hartley, who worked as an assistant to Larry Wallace, senior aide for then California Attorney General Kamala Harris, accused him of sexual harassment only to be transferred to another department. Weinstein threatened a number of his victims that he could use his connections and clout as a Hollywood mogul to prevent them from finding work in Hollywood along with threats of violence. People who witness it are afraid to come forward as well. One employee in the HSBC harassment case, Mike Picarella, came forward (anonymously) to protect Jill from Eileen’s harassment, and it just resulted in the executives, looking out for one of their own, destroying his career. He not only lost his job at the bank, but was practically blacklisted from the industry with him having trouble finding work in his field, not even able to get a job as an operations manager at a retirement home.

In short, while the medieval Westeros and modern-day real world are two completely different settings with regards to technological advancement, society and forms of government, both suffer from some of the same shortcomings. They are patriarchal societies where sexual abuse is commonplace, and in too many cases, tolerated. People (mostly men) take advantage of power imbalances to target others for sexual harassment and abuse, relying on their position, wealth and/or connections for protection.

[kirsty2000posts-blog]

The most tragic and the most misunderstood character: Theon Greyjoy

·         Theon was the one to pay for his father’s crimes, not Balon, Theon. It was Theon who was taken from his home from his mother and sister who cared deeply for him and loved him as well as Dagmar (in the books). It was Theon who lived under the threat of death every day and it was Theon who would have truly paid if Balon rebelled. An innocent child paid for his father’s crimes and yet the North, the so called honorable North, thinks that’s right. What if Balon had rebelled right away? Would they think killing an 8 year old boy (9 in the books) is an honorable thing to do? Because I think it’s completely messed up and if that what honor is about in the North then they are no better than the wildings, southerns or the Ironborn.

 ·         Theon lived half of his life in Winterfell being judged just because he was born in the Ironborn culture. Hardly anyone in the North and that includes most of the Starks didn’t bother to get to know Theon as person and judge him based on that. No they simply judged him basically because he was born Ironborn and to them he was too Ironborn which was as far from the truth as one can get. The only one who did actually see Theon as Theon and cared for him was Robb and even he reminded Theon constantly that he wasn’t a Stark.

 ·         Also I want to make it clear on Ned. Ned was not like a father to Theon but I can see why Theon wanted him to be. Ned was a loving and caring father to his own children and Theon wanted that type of fatherly too, but he never got it from Ned and nor did he get it from his own father. The only one who he did and this was only in the books was Dagmar. In the TV show he never even had that type of fatherly role model at all.

 ·         In both the TV and the books it was Theon was had to make a choice that for him would be a lose/lose situation. It was a choice between his family and Robb. I am not going to say Starks because that is wrong on so many levels. If he chose Robb he would have been seen as a traitor to the Ironborn, his father and his sister. He would have been called Turn cloak and he could have been potentially branded as a kinslayer. We don’t need to discuss how things went down when he chose his family because we already know.

 ·         It seems that what happened at Winterfell is all blamed on Theon and Theon alone. Ramsay (Books and Tv) nor Dagmar (TV) get the blame for their part in it. Just to put the record straight I’m not saying Theon didn’t do anything wrong he did. He should have never taken Winterfell. He should have never listened to Dagmar/Ramsay and kill those two orphan boys to hide the fact Bran and Rickon had escaped under his watch and he should have listened to Asha/Yara. But if it wasn’t for Dagmar Theon would have never killed either Rodrik or those two boys. Same goes for Ramsay in the books although it was actually also Ramsay who killed Rodrik in the books. Also to put the record straight it was Dagmar who killed Luwin in the show. And it was Ramsay who sacked and set torch to Winterfell as well as other bad things this is both in the books and the TV show.

 ·         Theon is tortured over a year on the show. He is flayed, gelded, whipped, branded, beaten and sexually assaulted, starved and had his finger cut off (three fingers in the books). He has been degraded, humiliated, force to shred his identity and become a subservient of a man named Reek. Theon was completely at the man’s mercy because he knew no one was coming for him and yes Yara did in the end but by then the damage had already been done. He’s been through every torture imaginable but yet he still needs to pay for his crimes because apparently he hasn’t paid enough.

 ·         Back to the blame game. Theon gets blamed for Sansa being raped. What? How is this even a thing? It was Ramsay who raped her and there was nothing Theon could have done to stop him and if he had even tried it would just cause much more pain for both him and Sansa. And about him not helping her when he asked, well of course he didn’t he most likely thought it was all a game and that they both were walking into a trap. Also he was too broken to be able to stand up to Ramsay. He most likely also gets blamed for Ramsay raping Jeyne but probably not nearly as much since she’s not a main character or a Stark.

 ·         Theon did save Sansa in the end and himself. Just to make that clear Theon rescued himself. Not anyone else, Theon. It was also Theon who was also more than willing to go back to the monster who would have tortured him to no end if he had gotten his hands on him. He did this so Sansa would be safe. But yet he still needs redemption. He also saved Jeyne in the books.

 ·         No one seems to give any credit to how brave Theon was in season 6. Not only was he brave enough to face Ramsay For Sansa but he was brave enough to go back to the Iron Islands knowing his sister was most likely going to be angry with him and that the Ironborn wouldn’t be welcoming to him. It was brave of him to talk at the Kings moot and stand up for Yara. It was brave of him to sit in a brothel. Throughout season 6 he shown what a brave and incredibly strong character he had become. But yet some think he’s too broken. No he’s not.

 ·         Theon gets blamed for having PTSD and now he needs to be redeemed because of. No he does not. PTSD and their reaction when it is triggered is not something one can help. It’s not like Theon chose at that moment for his PTSD to be triggered but it was. What gets me is that these same people make the same argument for the Hound due to his fear of fire which happened about 30 years ago but they expected Theon to get past all the torture he had been put through right away.

  ·         I want to credit Theon’s bravery again because he still fought against Euron’s men until his PTSD was triggered. This was most likely the first time he engaged in battle since before Ramsay took him prisoner. He was also brave enough to face Jon and brave enough to stand up to Harrag.

·         Sorry this was an extremely long rant but I just get so fed up with the unfair hate that Theon gets especially in terms of his TV show counterpart.