#also elrond (and his children) and elros

[polutrope]

Nolofinwëan caffeine habits

Fingolfin: freshly ground quality beans in an ornate french press every morning with homemade cashew milk, no sugar. Only buys coffee out when someone else invites him, then usually orders a cappuccino because it’s what Finwë drank. Pays for the other person, tips well. 

Fingon: six cans of cola every day. Laughs every time Maedhros tries to suggest this is a bad habit. When he goes out for coffee, he orders fresh-squeezed orange juice or something that no one even realised was on the menu. Always orders a couple snacks and insists on sharing. Tips a normal amount but brings the staff random gifts like boxes of chocolate. 

Turgon: Four shots of espresso from the same place every morning at 7:10am. The staff have it waiting for him, he breezes in, says “good morning”, pays and tips, leaves. If he’s had a really long night he’ll add sugar, otherwise none. Often buys a few treats to go (they’re for Elenwë, Aredhel, and/or Idril; after Eärendil is born he buys a cake pop every single day). 

Aredhel: depends on the day, but enjoys treating herself to a large mocha with whipped cream. Seems to “deserve a treat” most days. Continuously drinks yerba mate on journeys (from a thermos in cold climates, iced when not). 

Argon: Monster energy drinks. 

Idril: Oat milk latte (thanks @swanmaids). No dietary reason, just likes the flavour. Rarely gets it to stay, but takes about 15-20 minutes to leave because she’s making the rounds catching up with staff and customers. Keeps saying, “I better get going!” and doesn’t. Enjoys a cup of tea with milk and the pastry Turgon brought her in the afternoons. 

Maeglin: says he doesn’t consume caffeine but eats chocolate covered coffee beans like popcorn when he’s trying to get a project done. When forced to go out he orders mint tea and lets it go cold. Pays for the other person but does not tip. 

Eärendil: at sea he drinks super sweet instant coffee that is somehow foamy despite being from a packet. When in Sirion, orders authentic chai from a stand in the town square mostly because Elwing likes it and the guy who makes it laughs at his jokes. When shipbuilding, drinks from the barely-functional coffee maker Círdan has had since the Great Journey. 

Fëanorians | Arafinwëans

[havenotwillnotreadthebooks]

Elrond & Elros in Lindon, the equivalent of 20 body and mind-wise, but old people men-wise and small children elf-wise

You are a 512 year immortal in a bar, angry because you can’t order a beer. It’s not your fault you took the immortality potion at 12 and have looked the same ever since!

[warrioreowynofrohan]

While I do like the complicated relationships between Elrond, Elros, Maglor and Maedhros, it frustrates me when all of Elrond and Elros’ character traits and skills are attributed to the Fëanoreans.

Elrond is mentioned in History of Middle-earth as ‘herald and minstrel of Gil-galad’, and is also a skilled healer. He’s the descendent of Lúthien, also an exceptionally skilled singer and healer. So why does fic and meta continuously associate this only with Maglor, who does not demonstrate healing abilities at any point?

Elros canonically has Thingol’s sword Aranrúth, but this gets less recognition than complete headcanons about him inheriting a sword (sometimes Narsil) from Maedhros.

Elrond and Elros both have associations with water (Elrond via his ability to affect the waters of the Bruinen, Elros as the founder of a seafaring kingdom). They are the descendants of freaking Eärendil. This seems more relevant than their connection to Maglor (whose association with the sea via beach-lamenting comes after he has parted from them).

Turgon temporarily fosters human children; one of them has a son who marries Turgon’s daughter. (Thingol also fosters a human, less successfully.) Elrond, Turgon’s great-grandson, fosters successive generations of Dúnedain, one of whom marries his daughter.

The people of Gondolin spoke Quenya (in their own dialect), I think.

Númenor had millennia of close contact with the Valinorean Noldor, who spoke Quenya.

Elros and his line for seven thousand years inherit the Ring of Barahir.

Let these guys have their heritage! Not everything about them is about Maedhros and Maglor!

[thesummerestsolstice]

There's this implication in Tolkien's writing that half-elves are kind-of immortal by default, and that they stop aging unless they choose mortality (though arguably they don't even really age then). See Arwen in the Lord of the Rings, who is several thousand years old and has clearly been living life as an elf, despite never having made the Peredhel choice.

I always wondered why Arwen was given that choice, actually. It seems like the Peredhel choice is mostly given to people who have a mortal parent and an immortal parent (Earendil, since Tuor was definitely mortal when he was born, and arguably Elwing depending on how you see Dior), or at least parents who are undecided (Elrond and Elros are born before Elwing and Earendil make their choices). Arwen is a fair bit more than half-elven, and has two immortal parents. And there's not really any evidence Elros's children got the choice. Why does she get to choose whether she wants to be mortal or immortal?

Now, this could just be some minor world building weirdness, but it raises another very interesting possibility. That Elrond, by the time his children were born, had not committed to being immortal, and was instead undecided. I feel like there's so much to explore in that idea. Maybe Elrond truly wasn't sure about his choice to stay immortal forever until much, much later in his life. Maybe he held off choosing specifically so his children would be able to. Maybe he didn't choose because he didn't want to have to pick between being an elf or a man, and just wanted to be a half-elf in peace.

There's also something very compelling to me about the idea of an Elrond who could have, at any point during the Second or Third Ages, decided to be mortal. Who could have left the grief and struggle of Middle-Earth behind forever, and who, nonetheless, always chose to stay; picking immortality, not once, but a thousand times over the course of his long life, no matter what difficulties he was faced with.

It would also be interesting to explore the idea that most of the people in Elrond's life assume he decided to be fully elven long ago, only to realize that that isn't actually true. I imagine it could be disconcerting, maybe even really anxiety-provoking to realize that someone you were certain would be around forever might not be. I also think it would be really hard for a lot of elves to understand why Elrond might not want to make that choice.

[annoyinglandmagazine]

One aspect of the House of Feanor I’d like to talk about is the idea that they all really love children. Like Feanor has seven sons more than any other elf we’ve ever heard mentioned. You’re telling me this guy doesn’t really love kids? So I like to believe that all the Feanorians are all inherently great with kids and just melt every time they see a child.

Feanor hates his half brothers for the whole Indis thing but he’s the only one who gets away with hating them. Anyone else tries it and they are hit with the full force of an angry Feanor. Yes he hates them but he will also be tutoring them because how else will he make sure it’s done right and they won’t disgrace Atar? And no he was not just bouncing Arafinwe on his lap what are you talking about?

Curufin is an excellent father which he inherited from his own father. Tyelpe also has six uncles who never tire of spending hours playing with him. They all fight for the title of best uncle and Tyelko very firmly believes it is him.

At family gatherings it is understood that no matter your reservations about Feanor’s side of the family if there is an upset child a Feanorian will know how to deal with it. Feanor himself will rarely object to being handed a crying baby regardless of it’s parentage. Maedhros has been the assigned babysitter for what feels like an eternity and his abilities are regarded as near magic.

This does not go away once they get to Middle Earth. The Feanorians all go to great lengths to provide adequate parental leave in their armies and frequently stop round to check in with any new parents to meet the child. They know all the names of most of their followers children and ask about them regularly.

One of the first things that endeared Caranthir to Haleth was how kind he was with some of her younger relatives. The children of the Haladin all love him because he plays with them sometimes and brings them little sweets. His good with children instincts are activated with any child regardless of race and it helps him build relations with other races more easily.

When Maglor brings Elrond and Elros back Maedhros is a lost cause within a month. He knows this s unhealthy on so many levels but children. They’re so innocent and tiny and he’s going to protect them. They are both referring to them as their children within a week.

Elrond inherits this. Erestor and Glorfindel see his adoption problem and immediately think oh shit our lord is definitely a Feanorian.

[fangirl-erdariel]

This isn't terribly important, but just out of curiosity, does anyone happen to know when Tolkien decided to limit surviving half-elves to just Elwing and Eärendil and their descendants (Elrond, Elros, Elrond's children)?

Like, the Hobbit still speaks in general about there being people who had both elves and men among their ancestors, and mentions Elrond as their leader. At least one if not multiple early drafts of the Council of Elrond chapter of LOTR name Erestor not only as half-elven but specifically a descendant of Lúthien. I don't have the relevant volume of HoME at hand to check, but iirc that draft also kinda implies that Erestor isn't the only one of those around, just the only one besides Elrond that's relevant to name just then, but i might be off about that part.

But by the time LOTR is polished to the shape it's published, Tolkien has apparently changed his mind about that, seeing as the published LOTR and appendices only discusses Elrond and Elros as half-elves, and any mention of Erestor's being half-elf (or in any other way related to Lúthien or to Elrond) is gone so that presumably he's been changed into an elf

So my knowledge of when Tolkien decides on the number of half-elves is basically "somewhere between whenever Tolkien wrote that draft for the Rivendell part of the story, and when LOTR was finished", but I'm really curious if anyone knows anything to narrow that down further?

[inthehouseoffinwe]

Recently found out the Palantíri were gifted to the Numenorians by the Eldar and it’s given me *ideas.* So the Palantir were made by Fëanor right. And it’s safe to assume they were kept by the Fëanorians, unless Maedhros decided to gift one to Fingoflin for communication, but I don’t think that would’ve gone over well for anyone.

So here’s my two theories:

1. Each son of Fëanor has a set of Palantír. I think it’s safe to assume there were more than seven made? I think it’s written that Elendil managed to ‘save’ seven of them, but don’t quote me on that. (It doesn’t really matter, this works either way. Also imagine little Tyelpë on his tip toes facetiming his uncles 🥲)

When their various fortresses fall, most of the Fëanorions manage to save at least one of their seeing stones. When Maedhros and Maglor end up in Amon Ereb alone, they have all their brothers’ Palantir but no use for them.

Enter Elrond and Elros. They come to love them, care for them. And vice versa. When they’re sent to Gil Galad, Mae and Mags send these pieces of their family with them. Maybe they can find some good use for them, a final legacy for Fëanor that doesn’t end in blood. Maybe it’ll keep them safe.

(I’ll go into detail of how they end up in Numenor below)

2. Celebrimbor ended up with Curufin’s Palantir in Nargothrond, and Mae and Mags sent the rest his way at some point before their final Silmaril run. They don’t have anything else, and their nephew deserves something made before madness consumed their family. Something made out of pure curiosity rather than pride that doesn’t have too many bad memories attached.

Celebrimbor appreciates the gesture but has no real use for them. He’s not particularly ambitious as a lord. Doesn’t have any need for immediate long distance communication, and in all honesty would likely be accused of spying if he did start using them (no matter if that isn’t how they work.)

Then he hears that Elros, who he’s gotten to know fairly well alongside Elrond over the years of the War of Wrath, is heading off to Numenor. He decides to give the new King something as a token of their friendship, and to keep in touch with his twin from a distance, the way the sons of Fëanor once did. And unlike many others, they won’t scorn his grandfather’s work.

Elros is managing a pretty large kingdom, so he takes the bulk of them. Elrond keeps one.

Later on, Elrond’s (not used since the death of Elros’ children) is lost in the fall of Eregion when he desperately tried to use it to find Celebrimbor. And of course Elendil manages to bring seven Palantir to Middle Earth when Numenor falls.

[meluiloth]

For @silmarillionepistolary day 7, Remembrance and New Beginnings! Artwork at the bottom.

Night has fallen. The lamps have been turned low, the house cleaned, the bedtime routine completed; all Maglor and Maedhros have left to do is tuck the twins and read them their customary story.

They look so small wrapped in the red wool blankets, like two little birds in a crimson nest. They are quiet, too, waiting patiently for Maglor to ask his routine question: “Now, what story would you like tonight? Or would you rather hear a song?”

“I want the one about the Sun and the Moon!” Elros pipes up, scrunching the blanket in his hands eagerly.

Maglor smiles. “Is that what you want as well, Elrond?”

Elrond, the quieter twin, looks bashfully down before murmuring, “I’d like to see the picture book…”

Maglor shares a confused look with Maedhros. They did not own any picture books. “What do you mean?” Maedhros asks.

Elrond tips his head. “The one in your study,” he says. “It’s got gold string around it and lots of pictures on every page.”

Maedhros frowns. “You know you are forbidden from entering my study,” he reproaches.

Elrond bites his lip. “Yes, I know … I just saw the pictures and thought they were pretty.”

Maglor sees the telltale signs of a lecture in Maedhros’s expression, so he swiftly says, “Perhaps we can excuse it this once, if you promise to ask before you touch our things.”

Both Elrond and Elros nod emphatically, and Maglor leaves the room to search for the ‘picture book’ in his brother’s study, which is packed with volumes, scrolls, and papers. Maglor thinks it will take him forever to find the book Elrond described, if it exists at all, but surprisingly he easily locates it in the first bookshelf: a worn book of red leather, tied with a fading gold ribbon. It is familiar to him, but he cannot recollect why until he brings it back into the twins’ room. Maedhros’s eyes widen when he sees it. “Grandfather’s sketchbook? I thought that was lost ages ago!”

“It was in a box in the back,” Elrond supplies.

Maglor looks down at it, a stab of nostalgia and old grief passing through him. “I thought we never even brought it,” he murmurs.

“Can we read it?” Elros asks, leaning forward curiously.

Maedhros frowns, his reluctance clear. There are many memories neither of them want to relive, the life and death of their grandfather among the most heartbreaking. But many of the memories Finwë recorded in his beloved sketchbook were his happiest, from both his life and the rest of his family’s. And the two young children looking up at Maglor are also Finwë’s family … and he wants to share something of his life that is not just the blood on his hands.

The spine of the book cracks softly as he opens it, and the yellowed paper releases a small puff of dust, but the artwork on the inside is still as lovely and life-filled as the day he penned them.

Maglor explains each piece as he showed it to the twins, and lets them look as long as they like. Even Maedhros sometimes asks him to wait a little longer on certain pages, the heavy, dark look in his eyes brightening when he remembers his childhood in Valinor.

It is well past midnight by the time they reach the last pages, and all of them are surprised to see that they are all in full color, when all the previous pages have been only graphite sketches.

“Who are they?” Elros breathes, tracing his finger delicately over the meticulously painted faces.

Maglor swallows, his throat and his eyes clogged with tears. His brother, too, is at a loss for words.

“It’s them,” Elrond says, looking up at the Fëanorians and then back down at thd drawings. “Maglor and Maedhros are right there … but Maedhros looks different …”

It was true. Maglor and Maedhros, along with all of their brothers - still alive and smiling radiantly - and their parents. On the other pages, their cousins and uncles and aunts, before any of them had suffered the horrors of Morgoth.

“That is us,” Maedhros murmurs. “That was us then. We were so happy..."

“What was it like … then?” Elros ventures.

Maglor smiles. “I will tell you.”

“Tomorrow night,” Maedhros interrupts. “It is very late, and if you are to understand a word we say, you must be well-rested.”

[anna-dreamer]

Finwean generational trauma is so real. I imagine, after Maglor and Maedhros kidnapped the twins, there was a clear and brutal understanding that that was not them giving those children a good life; but also, also, with Maglor and Maedhros being prone to the Oath, with their lives and souls tainted and fractured by bloodshed and murder and violence and loss and despair, they'd think there was no chance in the void for them to make something good out of it. Not with the Oath, not with the Doom, not with the way their father was. Their grandfather, due to whatever eldritch horror haunted his childhood in Endorë, felt that he had to have as many children as possible, so that his family would not fail and he wouldn't be left alone and scared in the dark. As a result, their father, abandoned and traumatised and angry, felt that he had to have as many children as possible, so that he would never be abandoned again, alone and scared in the dark. And he made sure of that. He had seven children, and he tied them up with an unbreakable Oath that would sooner destroy all of them than let them give up on him. So many hurts in this family were attempted to be healed with the use of children. And now here are Maglor and Maedhros. Alone and scared in the dark. True, there are two little boys on their hands, yet they have already wronged these boys so deeply. If there is a small chance of salvation or even redemption through them, Maglor and Maedhros would not take it. Besides, it would not work anyway. Refusing to repeat the old pattern is a first step in the right direction, and on itself it wouldn't be enough, but...

But then Eärendil appears in the sky. This is Elrond and Elros' father up there - and at the same time there is Fëanor too, because it's the silmaril that shines, the unobtainable, unreachable, illusory silmaril, like a father Maglor and Maedhros still desperately long for. Oh, but he will not come back. He is as far away as any star in the sky. The twins can't have their father back, and neither can the last two Fëanorians.

And then it hits Maglor. True, his brother and him are Doomed. True, there is probably no happy ending for them two. But it doesn't have to be this way for Elrond and Elros. With whatever strength and will to live and hope that he has left, he will try to do better by them. Maedhros would try to argue, but Maglor would tell him, They did not have Fëanor for a father! And they will not.

He can only hope that his genuine love and care he will give to the twins is just enough for them to turn out better than Maglor and Maedhros did. Maglor and Maedhros took them in. Now they are responsible. They will try. If redemption comes, it's not through acquiring someone to love you, but through loving them as sincerely and selflessly as your broken heart can. And if redemption doesn't come at all, so be it. It was not about redemption anyway. The second step, to consciously break the chain, is made.

Alas, it does not work as well on Maedhros. He doesn't feel this bittersweet bliss. He has fallen too deep into despair. And as soon as Elrond and Elros are gone, it becomes not enough for Maglor to heal either. He has just enough hope left to argue with his brother whether or not to go for silmarils. But all those last years spent alone with Maedhros sucked a lot out of Maglor, and nothing is left, apart from the feverish devotion, Nelyo knows better, Nelyo always knew better, like a dark shadow of Father always knows better, we will follow him and we will die for him if needed... No matter that Maedhros is not in his right mind. Neither was Fëanor. Their father's Oath is intertwined with their love for each other, and it binds them together ever stronger. Maglor would not leave Maedhros. But Maedhros loves his brother too. He might have not been healed by a star, but he is still Nelyo. The big brother. And while he could not break any vicious circles with his life, but with his death, for his last surviving brother, he would try.

It was not enough for Maedhros or Maglor. But it was enough for Elrond and Elros. With them, Finwean generational trauma was healed. The chain was broken. And i firmly believe that, despite their own trauma, both ultimately had healthy and happy families.

And if Maglor is still out there, Elrond will find him. He will finish what Maglor - his father - has started.

[anghraine]

Another Tolkien rant before I (finally!!) go back to BG3:

By and large, heredity and ethnicity in Tolkien cannot be understood through blood quantum logic. I don't think this is even seriously debatable, really—it does not work.

Yes, Imrahil of Dol Amroth is many generations removed from his nearest Elvish ancestor. Yes, he's still visibly part-Silvan to someone like Legolas, and is Silvan-style pretty to everyone else, and his sister was mystically susceptible to Mordor's miasma and died of sea-longing.

Yes, Théoden has as much Númenórean ancestry as Eldacar, a literal Númenórean King of Gondor, and has the same Elvish ancestor as Imrahil. No, Théoden is not a Dúnadan and does not inherit Silvan features. Tolkien specifically contrasted the visible Silvan Elvish heritage of Imrahil and his nephews Boromir and Faramir with Théoden and Éomer's lack of them, though in some versions, Éomer inherited remarkable height from his Númenórean ancestry (but not specifically Elvish qualities like beardlessness).

The only known member of the House of Eorl to markedly inherit the distinctive Elvish appearance of the House of Dol Amroth is Elfwinë, son of Imrahil's daughter Lothíriel as well as of Éomer, and Elfwinë's appearance is attributed firmly to Lothíriel-Imrahil rather than Théodwyn-Morwen.

Aragorn and Denethor are descendants of Elendil removed by dozens of generations, and Elendil himself was many generations removed from Elros. Aragorn and Denethor's common heritage and special status results in a strong resemblance and kinship between these incredibly distant cousins, including innate beardlessness and various powers inherited from Lúthien, and a connection to the Maiar presumably derived from Lúthien's mother Melian (great-great-grandmother of their very distant ancestor Elros).

Galadriel has one Noldo grandparent (half as much Noldorin heritage as Théoden has Númenórean). She has ties to her Telerin and Vanyarin kin and inherits some of their traits (most notably her silvery-gold hair), but she is very fundamentally a Noldo.

Túrin Turambar is a member—and indeed, heir—of the House of Hador via patrilineality. However, he's strongly coded as Bëorian in every other way because of his powerful resemblance to his very Bëorian mother, while his sister Niënor is the reverse, identified strongly with Hadorian women and linked to their father, whom she never met.

Elrond and Elros have more Elvish heritage than anything else, but are defined as half-Elves regardless of choosing mortality or immortality. In The Nature of Middle-earth, Tolkien casually drops the bombshell that Elros's children with his presumably mortal partner also received a choice of mortality vs immortality (and then in true Tolkien style, breezed onto other, less interesting points). Elrond and his sons with fully Elvish Celebrían are referred to as Númenóreans as well as Elves, with Elladan and Elrohir scrupulously excluded from being classed as Elves on multiple occasions. Their sister Arwen, meanwhile, is a half-Elf regardless of how much literal mortal heritage she has but also is identified with the Eldar in a way they never are.

There's a letter that Tolkien received in which a fan asks how Aragorn, a descendant of Fíriel of Gondor, could be considered of pure Númenórean ancestry when Fíriel was a descendant of Eldacar, the "impure" king whose maternal heritage kicked off the Kinstrife. Tolkien's response is essentially a polite eyeroll (and understandably for sure), but it's not like ancestry that remote (or far more so) doesn't regularly linger.

The point, I guess, is that there's no hard and fast rule here that determines "real" ethnicity in Middle-earth or who inherits what narrative identification. It's clearly not dependent on purebloodedness (gross rhetoric anyway, but also can't be reconciled with ... like, anything we see). It's not based on upbringing or culture alone. Túrin and Niënor, for instance, are powerfully identified with the Edain narratively despite their upbringings. Their double cousin Tuor, however, is a more ambiguous figure in terms of the Elves, whom he loves and lives among and possibly even joins in immortality—yet Tuor's half-Elf son Eärendil, whose cultural background is overwhelmingly Elvish, is naturally aligned with Men and only chooses immortality for his wife's sake.

Elladan and Elrohir, as mentioned above, are sons of an Elf, Celebrían, and of Elrond, a half-Elf who chose immortality and established a largely Elvish community at Rivendell. But the twins have a centuries-long affinity with their mortal Dúnadan kin and delay choosing a kindred to be counted among long after Arwen's choice.

Patrilineal heritages are more often than not given priority, which has nothing to do with how much of X blood someone has, only which side it comes from. Queen Morwen's children and descendants are emphatically Rohirrim who don't ping Legolas's Elvishness radar (though Elfwinë might, later on; we're not told). King Eldacar is firmly treated as a Dúnadan with no shortening of lifespan or signs of Northern heritage. Finwë's children and grandchildren are definitionally Noldor.

But this is by no means absolutely the case. The Elvishness of the line of Dol Amroth is not only inherited from Mithrellas, a woman, but passes to some extent to Boromir and Faramir through their mother Finduilas. Denethor and Aragorn's descent from Elros primarily comes through Silmariën, a woman (and also through Rían daughter of Barahir and Morwen daughter of Belecthor for Denethor, and Fíriel daughter of Ondoher for Aragorn). And of course, Elros's part-Maia heritage that lingers among his descendants for thousands of years derives from women, Lúthien and Melian.

So there's not some straightforward system or rule that will tell you when a near or remote ancestor "matters" when it comes to determining a character's identity, either to the character or to how they're handled by the narrative. Sometimes a single grandparent, or great-grandparent, or more distant ancestor, is fundamental to how a character is treated by the story and understands themself. Sometimes a character is so completely identified with one parent that the entire other half of their heritage is negligible to how they're framed by the story and see themself. It depends!

[eri-pl]

Explanation of why "be the older brother" is a sad doom

It's always the older of two brothers (unless you count Turin who had a sister, but she got it quite bad too), and either there are only two, or the two are often mentioned as a pair in separation of their other siblings.

Clear cases:

Melkor is older, Manwe is younger. Melkor is evil, and ultimately loses. Manwe is only overworked and burned-out, but is good and has a Cool Wife.

Feanor is older, Fingolfin is younger (Finarfin is not present in many of their scenes, they often interact as a duo). Feanor is despaired, arguably evil, gets his Silmarils stolen, dies quickly. Fingolfin has problems too, but lives longer and dies in a cool way.

But: if you take Fingolfin and Finarfin (considering them as a pair, because Feanor isn't their full brother): Fingolfin disobeys the Valar, goes through Ice, dies. Finarfin repents and lives happile ever after in Aman.

Maedhros and Maglor: Maglor gets the right idea which would end their tragedies, but Maedhros convinces him to not do it. Also, Maglor lives, which is kinda better? Also, he wasn't chained to a mountain.

Hurin is older, gets a terrible, terrible fate. Huor gets a clear heroic death, also, his son becomes an elf. And Hurin's son... we all know what happens to him.

Boromir and Faramir. Boromir is tempted by the Ring, dies. Faramir is not tempted, lives, gets married.

Unclear cases:

Celegorm and Curufin: They both are equally bad (unless you HC out the B&L story, then not as bad, but still kinslayers). At least Curufin gets a son, who is a good guy?

Namo and Irmo. Namo is the serious one, Irmo the happier one, but they are both good and fine.

Elrond and Elros, kind of. We don't even know which one is older. Also, both end up well, just different. However, if Elros was older, I could argue it sort of fits, because Men are the fallen race and live shorter. Also, his legacy became a dumpster fire (Ar-Pharazon...).

OK, generally twins don't really have this pattern.

Oin and Gloin are both ok, but the younger one is the father of a LotR character, so I would say he gets it better.

Also, Balin ends up as a traumatizing corpse in Moria, his younger brother Dwalin lives into the Fourth Age. Still, none of them has it actually bad.

Counterexamples:

Gimilkhâd and Tar-Palantir. The older one is the good one; the younger one is the evil one. Also, they have children who are foils too, and Gimilkhâd's son is probably the worst Man to ever live. So, double subversion.

Ambarussa? I think it was the younger one who got (quantum) toasted. But they're twins.

[erendur]

The Peredhil choice but it's super sensitive and can be easily triggered by a random sentence (and it's binding).

Elros finds out about it as he's getting ready for his first ball in Lindon.

"No way I'm wearing these gold lamé robes, these are *so* YS 500s, I'd rather die !"

And then pop ! becomes mortal once Elrond accepts swapping robes with him (they can immediately tell become the shape of his ears dramatically changes and his skin becomes 80% less dewy-looking ; also his hair immediately starts looking duller and...ok I'll stop). They try swapping robes again but it's too late.

Elrond has therefore to be extremely careful about what he says his entire life, or else risk immediately turning into a little pile of dust like these guys in legends and fairytales who go to fairyland and then immediately die and turn into a centuries-old skeleton when coming back and setting foot on shore because several centuries have elapsed and time instantly catches up on them.

"I will foster all of the descendants of Isildur, cross my heart and hope to...."

"Noooooooooo, my lord !" screams Lindir as he jumps on Elrond in slow-motion and gags him to prevent him from finishing that sentence.

"Ooooof. Well caught, Lindir. Another close one. Ah ah."

"Ah ah, my lord", says a very, very pale Lindir, about to faint (it's the third time that week).

As a result, any word relating to death is absolutely taboo at Imladris because it is of the utmost importance that none of the children learn any of these words before they are old enough to understand that they are never to say them out loud.

A lot of taboo-avoidance words are therefore used instead. Some clever ones, some down-to-earth ones, but of course the ones that stand the test of time are the Quenya profanities Galadriel immediately jumped on the opportunity to teach the kids. They stand the test of time because of course most of Imladris' residents and visitors do not understand what they mean, but every time the twins or Arwen utter them both their dad and Glorfindel look like they are the ones about to faint, and it absolutely never gets old.

After Aragorn dies, Arwen goes to Lothlórien and when she is finally ready all she has to say is :

"I'd rather die..."

And falls to the ground, a neat little pile of centuries-old bones in her place.

[silmarillaure]

Finweans ranked by Aura

Feanor - So powerful he sucked the life force out of his mother, invented a ton of cool shit, had more children with his wife than any of the other Eldar, died in battle while his body combusted into flames because he was just that hot, & the King of the Valar who he hated cried over him.

Earendil - Cool as hell, has a wife who's cool as hell. Predestined to be a hero even though he comes from a basic vanilla bloodline (besides his great grandpa Fingolfin). Even though most of his ancestors were nobodies or flops, most of his descendants that came after him were cool as hell.

Maedhros - Might have been higher than his father & cousin if he didn't khs, Lowkey an Aura loss moment but he makes up for a lot with his gorgeous red hair, height, surviving Morgoth's torture, & sorta fulfilling his dad's dumb oath.

Fingolfin - The only good thing his bland vanilla mother did was give birth to him. He was a total badass I've got to admit even as a Feanorian stan. Him crossing the helcaraxë & his death were top Aura moments.

Elrond/Elros - They're twins so they can share a spot too. Both badass as hell.

Fingon - Called "the Valient", braids gold into his hair, saved his sexy redheaded cousin, & became King of the Noldor. Everything about him screams Aura.

Galadriel - Despite the fact she's a Feanor anti (Booooo!!!), she admittedly has a ton of Aura. She's smarter than possibly everyone else here given she survived when the rest of her generation either got themselves killed or spends all their time being a sad beach cryptid.

Gil-Galad - Cool as hell, managed to make an alliance Maedhros could only dream of.

Maglor - Has a couple Aura loss moments but in the end he LIVED which is an Aura gain. Also gets Aura points for having the best voice in Arda.

Celebrimbor - Pretty rad dude, love how he's more like Feanor than his father Curufinwe Jr is, unfortunately he died.

Finrod - His death is cool as fuck. Looses points for cockblocking his little brother & dying for that basic joe Beren though.

Caranthir - Goth Icon. Love how despite his raging anger issues he's also an awesome guy you'd want to be friends with.

Finwe - A massive flop in a ton of ways but definitely still has Aura. Looses Aura points for failing Feanor & choosing to marry an unsexy Vanya when he could've waited for his sexy talented silver haired Noldo wife to come back to life. Only good thing about him besides his awesome hair is that he's Feanor & Fingolfin's father.

Aredhel - Cool as hell but has terrible taste in men. Her whole white aesthetic & her wild personality gain her Aura points though.

Turgon - The only cool thing about him is that he built Gondolin which wins him some Aura points. Looses Aura points for getting played by his nephew & dying pathetically though.

Idril - She's cool I guess, the only thing of note that she did was give birth to the chad Earendil. Tuor is such a basic guy though, he's not the worst but she could do better.

Aegnor - Cool hair. Pulled a baddie. Fumbled the baddie.

Angrod - Not the most stand out Finwean but he seems to be a mama's boy & he didn't do anything wrong so I'll put him above the family flops.

Finduilas - She's a sweetie but she looses Aura points for falling out of love with a great guy like Gwindor & falling in love with Turin the walking L.

Celegorm - Stupid as hell for trying to use a powerful half-Angel as a political weapon against her father. Looses more Aura points for getting abandoned by his dog & dying at the hands of said half-Angel's 30 y/o mortal son while he's over 1000 y/o. Gains some Aura points for being able to talk to animals, his hair, & his hot bastard energy.

Curufin - Feanor with 99% less Aura. His only achievement is having Celebrimbor yet he still couldn't even succeed at being Feanor 2.0 and having 7 kids to continue the family line. Had the chance to kill Eol but didn't which led to his favorite cousin dying (that's a huge L).

Finarfin - Takes after his mother in the sense he's vanilla af. The tiny percent of Aura he has is from his Noldo side obviously and he used that to pull a baddie like Earwen. All his kids get their Aura from their mother's side.

Orodreth - I like the guy, but he's definitely a dumbass with no Aura. He inherited a kingdom but isn't particularly good at anything. His only accomplishment is possibly fathering Gil-Galad.

Maeglin - Orodreth might have no Aura but this guy has negative Aura. His childhood sucked but he's such a walking L that's he's somehow more of a loser than both Celegorm & Eol combined.

[warrioreowynofrohan]

Random opinions about how aging works for elves, half-elves, and hobbits:

For hobbits, I stand by my belief that hobbits do not age to maturity any slower than humans, they just have a more “millennial” (speaking as a millennial) attitude to adulthood, and then get old slower than humans do. If you have more time in “middle age” and old age than the humans do, then socially ending up with an extended period of youth and irresponsibility, relative to humans, seems like something that makes sense. I don’t think Pippin (age 28 during LOTR) is actually the hobbit equivalent of a teenager; I don’t think they would let him go on the quest if he was.

Also, Merry is born in 2982, making him age 19 when he’s helping Frodo out in the aftermath of Bilbo’s 111th birthday-party and surprise departure; that’s a reasonable human age for him to be doing that, whereas assuming a notable difference for hobbits means Frodo has recruited a preteen to fend off Lobelia Sackville-Baggins, which, while funny, is not what I think the narrative is going for.

Frodo had retired for a while and left his friend Merry Brandybuck to keep an eye on things. When Otho loudly demanded to see Frodo, Merry bowed politely.

“He is indisposed,” he said. “He is resting.”

In terms of elves, I think comparisons to human aging are complicated because elves age to mental or social maturity faster than they do to physical maturity in a way that is not the case for humans. LaCE says:

Not until their fiftieth year did the Eldar attain the stature and shape in which their lives would afterward endure, and for some a hundred years would pass before they were full-grown.

…The Eldar wedded for the most part in their youth and soon after their fiftieth year…at whatever age they married their children were born within a short space of years [as the Eldar reckoned time; in mortal count there was often a lomg interval between the wedding and the first child-birth, and even longer between child and child] after their wedding.

I personally would regard a 50-year-old elf as equivalent to a human in their early 20s, in terms of maturity; with the exception that, unlike a human, it might still be some time after that that they reached the peak of their physical strength.

This is relevant to the fact that Maeglin chooses to leave Nan Elmoth and go to Gondolin when he is approximately 70 years old. He’s not a child or even a teenager; he’s probably roughly equivalent to his mid-20s.

In terms of peredhel (half-elves), I am convinced that they age to maturity at a human rate, with the difference that they stay at their peak of health and strength for far longer after that (and, if they choose to be counted as Elves, retain that appearance basically permanently). This is because of the few dates that we have, in History of Middle-earth, for Dior, Eärendil, and Elwing. Granted, these are Tolkien’s draft notes, and he edited them continuously; but one version has Dior’s twin sons being born when he is 30, while a family tree has them born when he is 22. There’s a timeline where Elrond and Elros are born when Eärendil and Elwing are both in their late 20s to early 30s. We can choose to conclude either that marriage and having children is happening at a terribly early age to people who are basically teenagers, or that that half-elves age like humans and they are doing these things at normal times. I choose to conclude the latter – and given that Dior marries and has children before Thingol’s death, when he is living peacefully in Ossiriand (Elwing is named for a waterfall near his home in Ossiriand) and there is no especial urgency, I think the conclusion that they age to maturity like humans and choose to get married and have children at human-similar times is the one that makes the most sense.

[thesummerestsolstice]

I think it would be very funny if half-elves were just all short. Even the ones who are descended from really tall elves or mortals. By mannish standards, mind you, they’re fairly average, if built a little lighter. But compared to elves? Consider:

Earendil, descended from Turgon AND Tuor, great dragon-slaying warrior, and he comes up to like, the average elf’s shoulders

Erestor son of Caranthir looks almost exactly like his father but he’s about a foot shorter and much nicer

M&M fully think something’s horribly wrong with E&E as children because of how small they are (is this because of the cold they got two years ago?? Are they not eating enough???) but turns out no, half-elves are just like that

Elros was shocked when he first met humans and realized he was taller than most of them

Elros would also love to use Maedhros's sword but he's way too short to wield it so he ends up using a an elvish knife instead

The main way people tell Luthien and Elrond apart is that Luthien was really tall and Elrond is really not

Elrond also uses his shapeshifting specifically to be tall enough to reach books on the higher shelves of the library (Erestor is very jealous)

Glorfindel appreciates this because it makes it easier to physically drag Elrond into bed after he refuses to sleep for a week

[brighter-arda]

Elrond and Elros for day 2 @tolkienlatamandcaribbeanweek

Part 31 of toi's indigenous tolkien series

[Image description: six blue images

1: a white wing and stars. Text "Elwing's sons"

2: sea at night. Border text "peredhel" centre text "the"

3: different sea at night. Border text "peredhel" centre text "stars"

4: Yanomami boy with brown skin and body paint semicircles. He has white feathers in his hair and sticks in his nose. Text "Elros"

5: Yanomami boy with brown skin and different pattern of body paint, more like waves. He also has feathers in his hair and sticks in the nose. Text "Elrond"

6: different sea at night. Border text "peredhel" centre text "children".]