#also MIANMIAN

[poorly-drawn-mdzs]

None of our hands are clean

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[lgbtlunaverse]

I feel like too often people frame Nie Mingjue's issues as ignorance borne from safety. Like, they think that because of his privilege as a sect leader he doesn't know what it's like to be in danger and forced to make hard choices to survive. And I disagree. Strongly.

First of all, Nie Mingjue is very familiar with death not only from war but from. You know. Actively dying since the age of fourteen. Let us not forget Nie Mingjue is dead! Super dead! And maybe he didn't die the exact way he expected to but he did, absolutely, know he was going to die. To act like Nie Mingjue is unfamiliar with the scenario of "do something you find morally reprehensible or die" is to ignore that he has been living that exact scenario and chose death.

Nie Mingjue knows death is a risk for someone like Jin guangyao, in fact he explicitly acknowledges it even in his worst moments like the stairs in chapter 49. Had his issue been ignorance, then he would've responded to Jin Guangyao saying that he's in danger and has to sacrifice others for his own safety with "No you aren't you'll be fine." But he doesn't. He accepts the fact that jgy is in danger with no qualms and says: then you should die.

That's not him betraying his values, those are his values. He is, essentially, pro-suicide. Jgy is like hey I have a moral dilemma what should I do and nmj straight up goes "Kill yourself" and earlier that same chapter when he was faced with a moral dilemma he went "I'm gonna kill myself." He believes the solution to moral dilemmas is suicide! He is extremely consistent about this! When it's pointed out to him that it would have been dangerous for Wen Qing to oppose Wen Ruohan it doesn't phase him because he thinks putting yourself at risk to do the right thing is the only moral choice. The idea that he can only hold this belief because he is himself somehow not in danger, again, requires you to ignore that he is dying the whole time. And it doesn't deter him. He is the idea of self-sacrifice as a moral good taken to its absolute logical extreme. Someone who is ready to die and demands the same from everyone else.

It makes him a very fun case study for fandom, because a lot of fandom spaces also tend to revere self-sacrifice as the ultimate good, and yet we get very uncomfortable when someone starts demanding it of characters we love. Like woah, hold on, that's a bit too far isn't it? Only we the audience get to do that!

[tavina-writes]

A Practical Discussion of Eligible MDZS Bachelors During the Second Life

So I keep seeing discussions floating around about like "why aren't any of these people married" and "are JC's standards too high?" and other assorted nonsense, so I have decided to put together a ranking of like "if a practical minded historical* woman wanted to get ahead politically with the LEAST amount of #suffering, what rankings would she give these guys." Because I've been really fond of @dangermousie's poll options, I'm calling this girl Potato.

*Historical fantasy more or less given that we assume that Potato is also a cultivator.

Jiang Cheng There are many reasons for this but 1) Jiang Cheng's in-laws consist entirely of (1) bratty nephew who doesn't even live at his house full time, 2) there are no other meddling in laws or sect elders given that Jiang Cheng is the only one! 3) he is reasonably good looking, well off, and has social status by this point in the story. Potato can probably win over a bratty nephew! Downsides include: if Potato doesn't like spicy foods oh dear, but honestly we don't know what Potato's spice tolerance is so it could still work out!

Nie Huaisang: Being married to NHS would be an exercise in perpetual embarrassment, and it's unclear if his budget line items ever since Da-ge died are any more detailed than "Summertime Sadness." There are worse people to marry, but why anyone (including Potato) would willingly choose to marry NHS for political benefit eludes me. He is ranked higher on this list than any Lan largely for the sake of "his mom was probably not in solitary confinement" and "there are likely no dietary restrictions present in his house." but the other downsides include "he's probably going to go INSANE" at some point but silver lining on that front is that he's really not a very good cultivator, so it probably won't be as bad as NMJ's insanity bender? Potato could rank him lower than any Lan options tbh.

Lan Xichen There are also many reasons why Mr. Zewu-jun is not an ideal marriage candidate for practical reasons but this largely has to do with his family. There's 33 favorite grandpas who seem to have opinions on the regular. The in-law trouble would suck tremendously. There's 5am wakeup calls and 9pm bedtimes and no meat or alcohol. There's like between 3000-4000 rules Potato will have to remember and actually follow! His mom spent her entire married life mysteriously in solitary confinement. #Yikes!

This seems like an unwise place to marry into. Potato could do better.

Lan Wangji See above except for the part where he doesn't even like Potato and only thinks about WWX all day.

Lan Qiren I am uncertain about Potato's investment in #HotDilfsInLocalArea but 3000-4000 rules and many of Zewu-jun's problems.

Jin Guangyao He's already married and he's never cheating on his incest marriage, and he has his ex's head in his bedroom closet. Also #Yikes. Potato could do better than this too.

Basically: Potato should either aim to marry Jiang Cheng or go to live as a hermit in the woods.

[khattikeri]

drives me nuts when people treat jin guangyao or wei wuxian like they're socialist revolutionaries like no! they're not!! in fact their respective roles in society and complacency regarding its hierarchies is why ANY of the story even happens to begin with!!!

jin guangyao doesn't hold bitterness just because he was born lower class. he is bitter because others deride him and his prostitute mother in spite of both their intelligence, skills, and efforts to climb the ladder.

why do you think we were shown scenes of other prostitutes in the brothel deriding meng shi for being literate, for "trying" so hard? why do you think we were shown scenes of anxin taunting meng yao and throwing shit at him because he was trying to learn cultivation at his mother's behest?

why do you think jin guangyao arranged for the arson of that brothel, burned to the ground with everyone except sisi inside? that's not the behavior of someone who believes in true equality and the inherent worth of sex workers as human beings!

that's the behavior of someone who thinks he's better than them. the behavior of a man who already came up on top through political games and war crimes, backstabbing and spying for the sake of the "greater good".

i won't rehash his argument to nie mingjue that he didn't have a choice-- he had some choice, but no matter what he does his class will come up and people will always assume the worst and try to hurt him for it, which forces his hand to do whatever will protect him best (hence 'no choice').

jin guangyao did everything he could to secure his own safety and a place among those already higher up. and by that point, he'd won it.

the fact that the temple rebuilt on the brothel site is to guanyin, the goddess of mercy, is even more ironic! the fact that jin guangyao has the goddess's statue carved to look like his own mother is proof that he viewed both her and himself as higher than them. more worthy than them.

of course he cared about the general welfare of others (read: the watchtowers). but consider also that there is no watchtower near yi city, which ended up being one of xue yang's playgrounds. jin guangyao can and will turn a blind eye to certain sufferings if it is convenient to him.

sure, jin guangyao made undeniable contributions to cultivation society and accessibility, but he is not at any point trying to topple existing class structures. his adherence to them is in fact integral to his own downfall in the end.

it brings with it the inevitability of society conveniently ignoring his triumphs and genuine moments of humanity to deride him once more as an evil, disgusting son of a whore once his crimes come to light.

now for wei wuxian. he's the righteous protagonist of the story and he doesn't give a fuck what society thinks, yes, but he wasn't out there trying to cause an uprising so that all the poor servant classes and lower could become cultivators. he wasn't trying to redistribute wealth or insinuate that those who are lower deserve to be viewed as equal to the gentry.

the most critical and non-explicitly stated fact of mo dao zu shi is that wei wuxian has always been resigned to his position in the social hierarchy.

his unreliable narration, especially regarding his own past and thoughts, is so damn important. he doesn't EVER tell the reader directly that people treated him any which way at their leisure because of his parents' differing social classes.

no. instead we are shown how much prestige he is afforded as cangse-sanren's son-- reputation as a talented and charming young cultivator, made head disciple of Yunmeng Jiang-- and how little respect he is given in the same breath, as the son of servant wei changze.

the way he is treated by others is as fickle as the wind. if he obeys and does as told, there is no reward. of course he did that, that was the expectation to start with! if he does anything even slightly inconvenient, there is a punishment. of course he has no manners, what else would you expect from an ungrateful son of a servant?

wei wuxian's righteousness is not a matter of adhering to principles he was explicitly taught, the way nie mingjue values honor or the way jiang cheng always tries to prove himself. wei wuxian does the right thing regardless of what the consequences are to him because his good deeds are always downplayed and his bad deeds are always singled out, no matter who or how many people were doing it with him.

he has faced this double standard since childhood. there are points in the novel where it's clear that this sticks out to wei wuxian, but does he ever fight back against that view of himself? does he EVER, at any point in the story, explain his actions and choices to jianghu society and try to debate or appeal to their sense of reason?

no. because he knows, at his very core, that any explicit deviation from their interests whatsoever will be punished.

slaughtering thousands of people is fine when they want him to do it, and when the alternative is unjust torture, re-education camps, and encroachment upon other sects' lands.

slaughtering thousands of people who are trying to paint him as evil for not going along with their genocidal plans, however, is punished.

wei wuxian knows his acceptance among the higher classes is superficial and unsteady. from the age of 10, when jiang fengmian took him in, he knew subconsciously that he could be kicked out at any time.

he knows that cultivation society doesn't care about war crimes and concentration camps and mistreatment of the remaining wen survivors of the sunshot campaign. but the right thing to do now that they aren't at wartime is to help them, plus they'd punish him either way for it, so he will.

in this regard wei wuxian is more self-aware of his position than jin guangyao. he does care about common people and he does try his best to help them as an individual. even if that ends up with him disabled, arrested, targeted in sieges, or dead.

but is he revolutionary? in the full equality, fight the establishment, rewrite laws, change social structures and people's perceptions of class sense?

no. no. he isn't.

now my knowledge of chinese society and history is fairly limited to my hindu diaspora upbringing and our shared cultural similarities ... but speaking to what i absolutely know us true, adherence to one's social class is expected.

this is rigid. efforts and merits might bring you some level of mobility, but in the end, the circumstances of your birth will always be scrutinized first, and your behavior compared to the stereotypes of where and how you originate.

mdzs is not about revolution, and none of its characters are able to truly change its society. there is no grand "maybe cutsleeves aren't inherently bad" or "i'm sorry for persecuting you and believing hearsay, you were truly a good person all along!" at the finale.

people ignore history and repeat it again with the next batch of ugly gossip and rumors.

wei wuxian, lan wangji, and luo qingyang find peace only by distancing themselves from cultivation society and its opinions.

jin guangyao and wei wuxian both cannot ever escape from others' perception of their origins and actions. regardless of their personal beliefs, they are not revolutionaries.

[frenzyarts]

Just got Mianmian Strange World Adventure Series Clown LULU BJD Action Figure in the mail and I loveeee themmmmm💕💕💕

I preordered them one billion months ago and I’m so glad they’re finally here! First of all, they’re way bigger than I expected (with their proportions I was expecting them to be around the size of an ob11) Lulu is actually 6(ish) inches tall. The only downside is that they’re super top heavy. Though they can’t stand on their own, Kikagoods (who I ordered Lulu from) kindly added the little tree stump with boots to my package that enables them to stand! Kikagoods also sent them some extra clothes and eyes which I’ll share photos of later.

(The photos without the boots are just me holding the hat out of frame 👀)

They come with eye putty and that’s how their clown nose attaches too. They have two different colors of clown nose, a wand, and an adorable little tail 🥰

Anyways say hi to Lulu!!

[feralplantwife]

"obsessed" by Olivia Rodrigo but it's Lan Wangji stalking MianMian on Instagram "obsessed" by Olivia Rodrigo again but it's Wei Wuxian also stalking MianMian on Instagram

Bonus: MianMian is not aware of any of this because she is normal and off somewhere else kissing women and minding her own business

[qourmet]

another AU no one asked for

i've been listening to the promare ost & gave in to watch the movie. been thinkin a Lot about a promare/wangxian AU but all i could really focus on was MianMian in Aina's clothes & i was kinda Gone

but also, consider: yiling found family as Mad Burnish

[piiinkfreak]

The Jiang siblings went nighthunting with MianMian!

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[mengyaos-defence-attorney]

MianMian leaving the cultivation world can be summarized as this

[gravitywonagain]

Sunshot Band AU - Fire in the Back of My Throat

Wangxian, Wangningxian?

Genderswapped WWX, WN, everybody else is the same — why? Taylor Momsen’s voice and bisexuality reasons; also I don't control my brain at 3am, it does what it wants; also also let ladies scream in metal!!

Sunshot lineup:

Wei Ying: lead vocals, unclean vocals, rhythm guitar, programming

Mianmian: lead guitar, backing vocals -> Replaced by Lan Zhan: lead guitar, keyboards, backing vocals

Wen Ning: bass, backing vocals, screaming, unclean vocals

Jiang Cheng: drums, percussion, backing vocals

Music insp:

The Pretty Reckless (Wei Ying sounds a lot like Taylor Momsen and switches often between rock vocals and classical vocals)

PVRIS

Halocene

Red Handed Denial, CrazyEightyEight (Wen Ning screams like Lauren Babic)

1. Audition:

Starts when Sunshot has to audition a new lead guitarist because Mianmian is leaving to finish out her pregnancy and be a stay at home mom who only occasionally does shows close to home -- it's her dream, we're not judging her about it -- and cannot go on tour.

When Lan Zhan auditions, he plays well, but Wei Ying is skeptical. She was actually hoping for a woman to replace MM and there's something about LZ's stoicism that just irks her or something, so she pushes.

"Yes, well done. Now play us something we haven't heard before."

LZ plays a classical guitar piece, but WY identifies it easily.

LZ plays a guqin piece that he's transposed for guitar, but, again, WY identifies it -- though maybe not as easily.

Finally, LZ plays a personal composition that he hasn't recorded on bandcamp or youtube yet.

WY smiles. "Why didn't you start with an original composition? Save us all the hassle."

"I needed to know you were worth my time, as well." [or something like that]

2. Distant Road (远道) Tour:

LZ steps into MM's role easily. His falsetto is good enough that they don't have to do too much reworking of the vocals for the tour.

On stage, WY, who has always flirted with both WN and MM, flirts with LZ, too. This causes a Public Stir, because what if WY is actually straight and she's just been baiting the audience for attention! Gasp!

WY, who has been openly vocal about being bisexual goes on a media rampage about it. "I've said for years that I go both ways!" [etc.]

She ends up kissing them both on stage while JC remains ever grateful that he's her brother and thus excluded from the nonsense.

Sometime during this tour, there will be at least a WNX threesome, if not a triad formed.

3. Forgetting Envy (忘羡) Album:

Sometime after the tour is over, Sunshot decides to invite LZ to stay in MM's place. They start writing their next album. But LZ brings with him piano skill as well. Now they incorporate keyboard into their sound, as well as LZ's intricate fingering and lower vocal range.

Writing the album is... a mess. But a good one, in the end.

When they perform on stage, there are songs that require keyboard, so LZ (for at least the first song) gives his guitar to WY so she can take over -- because she's also very skilled at intricate fingerings -- and he can play the keyboard. (Mostly because I think it would be really hot if this happened in real life. WY has her own guitar that she'll probably use on other songs and has used in the past when songs req more than two guitars. But like. I want this moment. Whether she steals the guitar while he's still wearing it or whether he lays the strap gently over her neck depends on the vibe of the crowd that night.)

[twistedappletree]

mianmian: *at koi tower* fuck everyone!

jin guangshan: i’m working on it

[poorly-drawn-mdzs]

Cite your sources.

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[goldencorecrunches]

"I saved your life once. You don't have to do this." "I know," he says, and cuts another slice of fruit to place in her upturned palm. The aristocratic arch of her cheek is softened by the afternoon glow, and here under the sheltering eave of the branches criss-crossed with shadows. He likes to look at her. He's in no hurry. She'll figure it out one day. "Really, you don't owe me any debt." The single ox is getting on in years, and every year slower for it, the road to town longer and sprouting more stops. Every third month he shares the ox with his mother: he's been considering giving him to her outright, and buying a new one– well, new for him– new-old– newer than this– he'll miss him, though– but his mother will take care of him, that's all right– She's refused to ride up on the seat with him, choosing instead to stride beside the wagon, sword perched on her shoulder and wide-brimmed hat pulled down across her brow, for the whole world like a rogue cultivator from his favorite childhood stories. All she's missing is a nasty scar and a stalk of wheat poking out of her mouth. He hides a smile, so she won't raise her prickles at him. Well, maybe she does have the scar. He's been too polite to check. He wouldn't mind. "I know," he says. "Here." It's a beautiful cloth, silk-of-gold, heavy and tightly woven. It was something else, once, that he can tell as he runs it through his hands; there are holes from unpicked stitching. That's common enough in this part of the world, and it's impolite to ask where it comes from, even if usually everyone in the clutch of farmlands can trace the same scraps of precious textile through generations of repurposing. She's not from here. She won't meet his eyes– she keeps shifting back and forth on her feet, smoothing the fringe-ends of her hair. This came from the small sack she keeps tucked in the rafters of the barn and never looks at, except when she's very sad, or very angry. He spreads the cloth out over his knees. "It's lovely," he says. "Thank you. What do you think we should do with it?" "Why?" She is in front of him, towering over— he's taller than her, usually, but he's sitting and she's standing, and he makes no move to match her, simply tilts his head back at the neck to keep watch. 

"Why are you– I don't– you don't need to! Now I'm trying to repay you! Why won't you just take anything?"

"Qingyang," he says, gently, and reaches up a hand. She figures it out.

[llycaons]

like I do think in theory wwx and mm could have great chemistry so I kind of get it but in the context of the story I really I do oppose mian/xian very much, like on a character level as someone who doesn't understand or like any pairing for either wwx or lwj besides each other, mm is such an odd choice specifically bc like...her in-universe role as it related to wwx and lwj was to be THE red herring straight crush. like the POINT was that neither of them were into her despite her being clever, pretty, expected, etc. it kind of defeats the purpose bc the point is that they're actually into each other. you're gonna turn that around AGAIN?

my other and older beef is that sometimes ppl try to pair wwx up w mm to 'justify' his bisexuality which drives me insane like that's NOT how it works!!!! he doesn't need to be in love with One Designated Woman to be 'valid' on w/e!!!! also isn't that just using mianmian as a tool like wtf...

and finally, mm standing up for justice/wwx/the wens, realizing the system is rotten, and then leaving entirely to live her own life is a frankly incredible ending for her and I absolutely love that she gets to just wash her hands of all that and go be happy. like, that's an objectively great narrative arc for her! just let it be that!

edit: can't copy replies but kiera is so right saying it's a disservice to mianmian herself because in the book her resistence to the jins is discredited because 'oh you must be in love with him' now lwj is right there so being in love w someone doesn't actually mean your moral compass or judgement is skewed BUT it is significant that mianmian was spoken over and discredited because of that assumption and I do think it kind of sucks thematically to say 'oh yeah she actually was into him btw' no she actually had a moral compass she just knew corruption and abusing prisoners was wrong!!

[incorrect-web-novels]

It's making me slightly insane how some ppl are seemingly trying to "correct" the idea that Mianmian was discriminated against for being a woman when she questioned the prevailing narrative that Wei Wuxian was killing indiscriminately.

Suddenly, someone sneered, "You can stop arguing. We don't want to hear the comments of someone who has other motives."

The woman's face flushed. She raised her voice, "Explain things. What do you mean I have other motives?"

The person replied, "There's no need for me to say anything. You know, deep down, and we know too. You fell for him back in the cave of the Xuanwu just because he flirted with you? You're still arguing for him, calling white black no matter how irrational it is. Ha, women will always be women."

- Exiled Rebels, Recklessness (2)

"Who does she think she is... leaving as she pleases? Who cares? What's she doing this to prove?"

Soon, some began to agree, "Women will always be women. They quit just after you say a few harsh words. She'll definitely come back on her own, a couple of days later."

"There's no doubt. After all, she finally managed to turn from the daughter of a servant to a disciple, haha..."

- Exiled Rebels, Recklessness (2)

This is right after Lan Wangji directly contradicts Jin Guangshan's version of Wei Wuxian's confrontation at the banquet in search of Wen Ning & is awkwardly brushed off:

Suddenly, an indifferent voice spoke up, "No."

Jin GuangShan was in the middle of his fabrication. Hearing this, he paused in surprise, turning along with the crowd to see who it was.

Lan WangJi sat with his back straight, speaking in a tone of absolute tranquility, "I did not hear Wei Ying say this. I did not hear him express the slightest disrespect towards Sect Leader Jiang either."

Lan WangJi rarely spoke when he was outside. Even when they debated cultivation techniques during Discussion Conferences, he only answered when others questioned or challenged him. With utmost concision, he overcame, without fault, the lengthy arguments of others. Apart from this, he almost never spoke up. And thus, when Jin GuangShan was interrupted by him, he experienced a far greater shock than annoyance. But after all, his fabrication was exposed right in front of so many. He felt a bit awkward.

The good thing was that, not long after he felt awkward, Jin GuangYao came to save the day, exclaiming, "Really? That day, Young Master Wei busted into Koi Tower with such force. He said too many things, one more shocking than the next. Perhaps he said a few things that were along those lines. I can't remember them either."

His memory could only be equal to Lan WangJi's, if not better. As soon as he heard it, Nie MingJue knew that he was fibbing on purpose, frowning slightly

Jin GuangShan followed the transition, "That's right. Anyhow, his attitude has always been arrogant."

- Exiled Rebels, Recklessness (2)

The focus of this scene is the double standards between a male heir to a prominent sect and a female disciple born from a servant - gender and social class. It is more than clear that Wei Wuxian and Mianmian are being looked down upon for "stepping out of line" due to their lineage (as well as Mianmian for her gender).

Like, there are other factors at play in this scene, and I'm a big fan of alternative interpretations, but it's not wrong to say Mianmian is being a fucking badass in this scene by questioning and rebuking bigots, even if there's no real "reckoning" or retribution for said bigots. It was one of - if not the - most memorable scenes for me, and it’s driving me a little nuts seeing ppl trying to "Um, Actually" it

[nighttimeebony]

The duality of woman