#also I didn't mention it in the post because it wasn't relevant to my point but I love XY now through exposure I love it all dksbfk
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lollitree · 2 years ago
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Your tags under the pokemon poll are SO TRUEE and it hurts how many people dont understand that
I grew up in the change from pixel art to 3D and have nostalgia for bw, xy AND sm. So i think because of that, I can see the good and bad in all the games but don't feel like any of them 'peaked''. They're all different games, so they are really hard to compare.
On a related note tho, its so sad to see so many fans praise one of my childhood games and not the others. And like, I get it because gen 5 is more similar to what they grew up with.....but every time I say I love xy, sm and even swsh i get told they are terrible and usually imply that I shouldnt like them :/
That only happens online, though......irl all the fans ive met, no matter their ages, just say something like 'i didnt like it, but i'm glad you did!'. Growing up in irl fan spaces and having to move online during corona was AN EXPERIENCE omg
Yeah! It's super interesting how much we are affected by nostaglia.
There's usually a pattern you can notice with this stuff too. There are two lines that go up as time goes on. The one everyone talks about as being great and the newer one people hate on, usually to do with nostalgia of the now older original audience of the game.
My full reply got long so putting it under a read more skfjsh
My first Pokemon game was Colosseum, so gen 2/3 pokemon and gen 3 sound effects are pretty nostalgic to me.
Then I grew up mostly playing Diamond/Platinum/PMD2/Ranger2. I LOVED Team Galactic. I restarted the games so many times just so I could play through the story again with Cyrus and the Galactic Grunt theme. (I have also played through pmd2 many many times). I remember in my early teens seeing people on the internet hating on DPPt a lot and it making me sad. I recall someone saying that the gen 4 Pokemon sucked and I remember thinking "aw I guess they're right, some of these pokemon are really boring or annoying" and then I learned later that the pokemon I was thinking of were all gen 1 pokemon sdfkjsh
Gen 5 was hated when it first came out because it wasn't very fun for new players. I bet it also didn't help that the advertising for B2W2 was pretty poor and also came out after the 3DS did. I didn't even know it was a sequel until years later. That's why they went in the complete opposite direction for gen 6, and added gimmicks!
I have heard multiple people call the designs from gen 5 horrible over the years (And they're all wrong). Those comments are nowhere NEAR as frequent now, but they almost always come from people with nostalgia for the ones they grew up with.
I was 13 when BW first came out. I think I've only beaten it once, MAYBE twice. I'm not entirely sure why, because I was still replaying DPPt a lot. I would guess it's because the game is super linear in terms of gameplay and every playthrough will start exactly the same. You don't really get to make decisions on your team and how you play until later. Kid me loved the beginning of the main pokemon games the most because they were the most fun bits to play usually. So I suppose when you've already played it once, the beginning becomes quite boring.
And to compare. I did not like XY when it first came out. I was 16 and very against change and also my fav types at the time were dark and dragon so fairy type was the worst thing ever. I said previously that I really liked Team Galactic, so Team Flare was just a bootleg version of them to me. BUT I did immediately replay the game when I finished it. The character customisation plus the huge dex gives the game a lot of replayability. Because while I didn't like a lot about the game it was still fun to play, and it was the first time online was really accessible to me. I went back to 2013/2014 on my blog and there's SO much positivity about the game it's amazing! Over time people only remembered the bad parts and started hating it. I bet there'll be an influx of nostalgia for it before long. We can even see it in the hope people have for SV having Kalos DLC.
I need to replay sun/moon or play USUM because in my brain currently it sucks. But I'm very aware that that's because I only played it once, it's been years, and I played it when I started to grow out of Pokemon. So I'm excited to play it again now that I can appreciate it better. (Also the Sun/Moon anime is my fav so I have a lot of love for the characters now)
And finally, I loved SWSH! I didn't finish it the first time I tried to play it. Mostly because I spent HOURS trying to get a shiny hatenna before doing the fire gym skdfjhs. But then I SPED through the game with a bug type only run before Legends came out and I really enjoyed the story! One of those things that's more enjoyable if you're only focused on enjoying the story (and playing the game through with a joltik as the lead and trying to make sure they stay strong enough to beat the game with pfft) Also Leon was the first ever Champion I actually thought was cool and enjoyed seeing while playing the game (as ridiculous as his outfit is)
If I were to logically plot out the best for me based on how nostalgia works and taking into consideration that public opinion ABSOLUTELY influences me. I would have said BW was the best and XY(or SM) was the downfall, even though I had way more fun playing XY than BW as a kid
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a-star-that-burns-brightly · 3 months ago
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CH2-12 thoughts (spoilers, I guess. You probably shouldn't be in the tag if you haven't finished the episode though.)
So! DRDT is officially back, and wow what a way to begin the rollercoaster we'll be put through the next few weeks. This episode was amazing, and I wanted to discuss my thoughts on it in a more detailed form. This episode gave us a lot of character moments that I want to at least mention, so let's get into it? Before we do though, I want to say that through these posts, I will be updating two things and showing them at the beginning and end First one being the swear statistics! It became a thing after my previous rewatch that every time a character swears, I count it, and I want to continue doing that for the rest of the series if I can so manage it.
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^ current swear statistics as of CH2-11
And the second being...drumroll please!
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My own personal DRDT CH2-Part 2 bingo card! If something on this list happens in CH2-Part 2, I'll check it off. Hopefully I can get a bingo or two in here, especially since, spoilers, two of the boxes have already been checked. But with all of that preamble out of the way, let's begin shall we? I’m going to cover the character moments we got in separate categories of the well…characters, rather than in order, for the sake of being concise.
Arturo
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First and foremost, “Shut your whore mouth” made me scream at the top of my lungs. God I wish that was voiced. But more importantly, the thing about Arturo being very young for a plastic surgeon actually being addressed was not something I expected, especially so early. But I definitely appreciate the nuggets of Arturo backstory. Funny enough, his situation sounds very similar to Min’s in some regard, especially this line
(x) Arturo: I was only able to get this far in such a short amount of time because I specialized in plastic surgery, and nothing else. I neglected everything that wasn't immediately relevant to my goals.
This absolutely plays a factor into his relationship with his little sister. It more than likely was not just him leaving that made her commit suicide, but perhaps also years of neglect. And if she really felt like she couldn't live a life without Arturo in it, it's safe to say that their parents probably weren't the best either. The more I learn about Arturo and his homelife the more worried I am for him and especially his sister.
Veronika
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Veronika didn't get much besides being her usual self, but I gave her a category because I wanted to point out two things One, Veronika calling Arturo cute. That just made me smile
And secondly, this line right here
(x) Veronika: Oh, and don't say something as boring as "I want to kill myself." I have no interest in such mundane reasons.
This is so fucked up and awful and gross and I absolutely love her for it. I just know she's going to get worse, I hope she does.
And also the fact that she apparently finds suicide to be inherently boring is very interesting, given the fact that she more than likely has the self-harm secret.
Whit
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I know he didn't have much, if any major role in this episode but...listen I missed him. So much. You have actually zero idea how much I missed him and his goofiness... But also I can't believe that was the explanation for the dent in the computer lab that's been bugging me for months. Well played DT-Dev... (though the fact that Whit got away with breaking a rule solely because MonoTV thought it was funny is a bit fishy...it's almost like he's the MASTERMIND-- /hj)
We also in general got a lot of Charles and Whit moments, which I always like to see I don't think there's anything else to cover when it comes to Wh--
(x) David: Ugh! Goddamn it, Whit, does everything you say have to be made into some shitty dumb joke?! You're actually really fucking annoying! Shut the fuck up!!
...Well, when I said I wanted more Whitvid interactions I guess this can serve as a reward. ...guys dont worry this is how we can still wi--
Levi
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...I mean, what else is there to say really?
No but actually I'll talk. This is what we've been theorizing for a year, and I actually had it in my predictions that Levi's secret was going to be the one revealed in this episode. But I did not expect it right at the end, nor did I expect it to be so sudden. And I don't think Levi has any reason to lie either, so I think this is his actual secret. Seeing him lose confidence and apologize for his unhelpfulness kind of stung to me, honestly. Levi has been trying to help the group since the very beginning, and that has only amplified since the start of Chapter 2. So seeing him...basically give up was very upsetting He is definitely going to be in the hot seat next week's episode and I am very excited for it, hopefully we get some insight on his past as well and...maybe a levi and nico interaction? please dt-dev? please? :>
Hu
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FishyFried, as always, knocked it out of the fucking park with Hu's voice acting, and her monologue towards David was just as amazing...if not a bit terrifying, as it directly parallels with her hidden quote
I want to pay for what I’ve done. But even then, I still want to live.
I think I've said this before, but I adore David and Hu's dynamic and how both of them tackle the themes of change in their own ways, how both of them project onto the people around them to fulfill their own desires due to being stagnant in their own growth as people, it's so much fun, and I can't wait to see how this continues to develop in the later chapters I am sincerely a ch5victim!david + ch5killer!hu believer at the end of the day.
Teruko
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Oh Teruko, quite a bit to discuss with you today.
For starters, her genuinely feeling embarrassed and upset upon realizing what she did wrong, apologizing for it, and (how I interpreted it anyway) beginning to realize that working alone and not accepting help from others is starting to bite her in the ass? That was not what I expected. I really did think that Teruko was going to get worse before she got better, but maybe she's improving a lot quicker than I thought (...let's hope she doesn't backslide again though, especially if the culprit is who I think it is) Also.
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If I have to live with this knowledge, so the-fuck do you. And then there's her argument with David, which I already made a post about, but I want to add onto it by saying that the performances from Swords and LuucarIi here are absolutely phenomenal. One of my favorite voice acted scenes in the entire series. I have replayed Teruko's "Hah! Based on what?!" probably around 20 times and I will repeat it 20 times more because the delivery gives me actual chills. This fangan has such an amazing voice cast oh my god it's insane.
David
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Oh. You are such a broken, broken man, and you are absolutely going to go down the Simon Laurent route. I actually don't have a lot to add when it comes to David's actual motivations for his actions, I think a lot of us theorized that he was trying to kill everyone and himself. But the main thing I want to talk about is the Xander shit because oh my god this man is Down Fucking Horrendous. I mentioned all the way back in this post that David idolizes Xander just as much as Xander idolizes him. What I didn't expect was for him to still be clinging onto the hope Xander gave him and trying to follow in his footsteps, and being borderline possessive over the damn dead man. Xander may have idolized David, but David is obsessed with Xander and what he represents to him. And he is willing to ruin his reputation, reliability, and dignity in pursuit of what he thinks is right. Not to mention, it puts the Tally5 image in a whole new light.
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Though I still think these words apply to the very possible revolution that David, Xander, and Mai enacted towards Hope's Peak, a theory that has become even more credible after this episode, I also think these lines portray David's thought process during his actions in CH2-11 and his motivation for doing the things that he does. David calling Xander "the only good person he's ever known" is very, very telling when you consider what he personally thinks makes someone a bad person (lazy, useless, stupid). And that makes me upset. Xander and David's relationship will never not be absolutely fascinating to me. ...alSO DAVID APPARENTLY HAS MEMORIES FROM HOPE'S PEAK??? APPARENTLY??? Like am I reading that right or do I just have bad media literacy. How...How does he??? WHY does he??? Why did he say he didn't know who Xander was in the prologue???? I am very confused and I'm sure it will all be answered. Extra Thoughts !! - we got 7:30 AM confirmation, woohoo!! And the bonus of Arei swinging when she was first found was such a good detail and I’m surprised none of us noticed it, honestly. With that confirmation, that leaves basically everyone else (minus J, David, Veronika, Hu, and Nico) in the hot-seat. - the multitude of new sprites we got were so amazing, especially David's - Apparently everything that happened in the second half of CH2-11 was in the span of two hours?! Sheesh, the editing crew on the TV show must be working overtime. Hopefully they get a paycheck and its not just MonoTV who gets paid. - If I had any doubt in my brain that Eden was the culprit it has basically dissipated with this episode. I really do not know who else it could be other than her. three of the five main suspects other than her have basically been cleared up, either through alibi (J and Hu) or though plot (Levi) David and Nico are also cleared from suspicion Though there isn't really any plot or evidence reason to necessarily exclude Rose, given her moment in CH2-8 and, let's be honest, this murder being way too physically complicated for someone as lethargic as her to commit, I'm inclined to believe she is not And every other character has something that's clearly being set up to be further explored in Chapter 3 (Charles, Whit, Ace, Arturo, and Veronika) Like... even if you don't think Eden is the culprit, you can't deny that she's the odd one out here. I still think Accomplice!Levi is true, but I also truthfully think the culprit can't be anyone other than Eden - If I were to give one I-guess critique though, not just on this episode but on the trial as a whole, it's that we are four trial episodes in and there has been very, very little focus on the actual murder mystery itself. We have barely even covered 80% of the evidence. This isn't like, a huge problem for me specifically because I very much watch DRDT for the astounding character writing over the murder mysteries, and I definitely think that the lack of focus on the case is worth the amazing character moments we got in this episode. But I can see it really bothering some people, and there's a part of me that can't help but be a bit afraid that the actual solving of the murder case is going to hit the audience with a bunch of information at once and come across as a bit rushed due to the lack of focus it's had so far. I trust that DT-Dev is cooking though, and it'll probably be a lot more cohesive once we have the full trial to look through.
Predictions for CH2-13 - Like I said before, Levi is going to become the main suspect easily thanks to his secret reveal. I know Ace is going to be on his ass especially, because in his mind it would basically confirm the image he has already conjured up of Levi in his mind as a violent brute who is going to snap his neck any second. J is also going to jump to conclusions because that's just what she does, and she was already concerned about the murderer secret to begin with. - Furthermore, I think most of this episode is going to entail Teruko trying to disprove that Levi could've been the culprit. Considering the fact that there, well, isn't much evidence to suggest he didn't, maybe this episode will feature this chapter's Random Guess minigame. - I highly doubt we're getting an AM VS PM scrum debate now, but maybe we'll get one on whether or not Levi is the culprit? Maybe? - On the topic of trial minigames, I hope we get another nonstop debate, it's been like three episodes since we've had one lmao - Nico is either going to defend Levi, or reiterate the speech that J gave them in CH2-9. Either way, I hope this reveal causes them to interact it would be so interesting - We are on a track-record of having at least one person's secret exposed every trial episode. Considering the fact that Xander and Min are dead, and I do not think Teruko's secret will come out until the end of the chapter, that really only leaves Hu and Veronika...which is interesting, as they are both in the clear for being the culprit. Hu has already had multiple moments to shine in this trial, so I think its more likely that Veronika's secret will be the one getting revealed. How that happens, I am unsure. But I think Veronika will be the next person to have her secret revealed.
Conclusion Overall, I think this episode was amazing and a great way to kick off the end of the hiatus. I can already tell that these next few weeks are going to be a wild ride for us DRDT fans, but we're all in this together, so I think everything's going to be fine (nothing is going to be fine.)
UPDATED SWEAR STATISTICS: CH2-12
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UPDATED BINGO CARD
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leo-interactive-fiction · 3 months ago
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Happy (belated) fifth anniversary for Triaina Academy, Leo! I hope that you got to at least do a small celebration for five years of work sometime in June. In the spirit of Triaina being five, I wanted to ask you about the old demo, actually; is there a scene you left / are going to leave on the cutting room floor that you miss? Are there other plot points from it that you really liked? I'm curious about how you feel about it after so long. Regardless, I hope this finds you well!
Hey there! Damn, it really doesn't feel like it's been five years since I've began undertaking this project haha. The very first showing of Triaina Academy was in june, and was fairly sizable for its first posting, hovering around 70k-ish words leading up to the middle of the 2nd chapter and having introductions for everyone except S and F. During then, I had far more free time available to me, and worked on that version of the demo until it grew to around 250-300k words spanning nearly 5 chapters.
But I realized as I had progressed through writing that the quality of my early chapter writing wasn't consistent with the current standards I wanted to have now, and so much of that wordcount was scrapped, with only the skeletonized outline remaining of the old work. I returned to square one and rewrote the story in its entirety from the beginning, leading to the current state now, with the revised version hitting close to 220k words. In the back of my head I consider that, had I just continued writing without a revision, Triaina Academy would already be a finished product.
In many ways I regret that despite it being five years, it feels like there is nothing much for me to show for it. Even more so now that my work pushes me between mental stress and physical exhaustion, often giving me little time or motivation to pull up the writing on my computer. But I love what I've created. I love the joys it brings me as a creative, as well as hearing the joy it brings you all to read. So even if it seems like I fall away, I am still pressing on to continue, even if it's a tiny bit at a time, until it becomes something both I and readers can find joy in.
Now, speaking of the old demo, there's many scenes that have become nonexistent. I liked quite a few of them, and there are probably many overarching ideas that will return in different forms within the new context of the current demo. But there are also many that won't.
A few mentions of old scenes that probably won't be making a return, either because they've been replaced or they are no longer relevant:
During the very first date with raven, although the makeshift "home" returned, there was an additional scene where the MC discovers mutilated bodies in a closet space.
Before the festival scene seen in the demo now, the working equivalent of it in the old demo was an underground party held by students of the academy in an abandoned airport. The idea of this was cut out because within the story, I decided the world wasn't in a current state for airspace travel save for very specific exceptions. But during this scene, the party is interrupted by a body being discovered hanging from the overhead walkways of a hangar, paired with a bloody message.
There was a scene where you could order and allow V to shoot and kill a student. Originally I had thought to make this into a fail state where the MC and V were thrown in jail for a game over, but upon the revision this was taken out entirely, as I decided against abrupt, early endings.
Infamously, E was originally written as a step-sibling character in the old demo. I had thought on testing and developing the dynamic, since I didn't see very many games do it, and my game was pretty heavily inspired by various anime and manga related tropes and character styles. But eventually, I decided to shift them into a childhood friend/next door neighbor romance without adjusting their personality because I put a lot of effort into developing the entirety of their story arch, and I wanted them to appeal to a more general audience. Funnily enough, they are still labeled as their old role within the code, just because it has become too much work to change all of the variables haha
F's personal assistant, Fiore, didn't actually exist within the old demo. At least not in the same capacity. She was added because I realized F's personality didn't work well as an independent romantic driver, and they needed an additional external factor to push F into more romantic situations. Fiore RO DLC is an additional purchase of $9999.
In the old demo, MC's, and to a lesser extent everyone else's parents, played far less of an apparent role. I wanted to develop a story showing the previous generation compared to the current one, as in some ways there is a "passing of the torch" theme throughout the plot.
S and F were introduced far later in the old demo, to the point every other RO was given a full extra date scene before they joined the picture. One goal of my revision was being able to give these two an earlier introduction so they could all have their own date scene. In the old demo they were introduced in a scene where P and the MC had to switch rooms, allowing the MC to meet the last two members of Dorm Exul, as well as I think letting them read P's diary.
You used to be able to choose both M and P's gender independently, but with them becoming more structured as identical twins, M will always be the same gender you pick for P.
R used to be far more of a directly flirtatious character like M, but has since naturally shifted to the laid-back, bantering character they are now as I've continued writing them.
Similarly, V was written in a far more robotic tone with only short one-to-three-word responses, and although they are still fairly terse and unemotional, they've developed over time to have far more spoken dialogue and hints of emotional cracks.
There used to be a fail scene in M's romance if you refused to hit them the first time. Much like the other fail state, this was taken out and the decision between leaning into their masochistic tendencies or not became part of their path selection.
Many of the side characters within the story were not introduced, and so neither were their stories. Lewis and S's hostile relationship was not developed, Rex and Acer only had passing remarks, Treyla, Juno, Uno, and others who were nonexistent to the plot now hold some relevance to specific MC specializations, and instructors other than Rosaline and Hoft were given names and a larger part as progressors of MC specializations.
As far as the most favorite scene that I'll miss leaving on the cutting room for, hmm. It is most likely the school tournament arc that I had planned in the old demo. It was in the works and quite far in development at the time that I realized my writing had taken far steps away from the book's early development, both in quality and creative direction. The tournament was supposed to be a method to more actively showcase the combat capabilities of each character's powers, with several rounds and fight scenes already written. But within this new revised plot, I plan for the S.T.E.M. abilities to develop far slower and gradually with trackable leaps in power, not yet becoming combat capable at the time this tournament arc would've occurred. Still, the scene and idea I had in my head, and what I had already written, was quite fun! Although I probably won't be able to figure out a way for this exact scenario to happen now, eventually I would love to bring back the idea of a tournament, or arena type of setting, at some point in the story haha.
Thank you for listening to my ramblings. I didn't think the response would get this long haha. Triaina Academy has recieved so much more positive reception and love than I could have ever imagined when I first began working on it. In all honesty, I had figured that maybe I would be writing for a handful or so to see and think it was neat, and I'd be plucking away at it from time to time with no real thought to its success in mind. But it has instead risen to a stage far larger than I thought it could perform on, almost dauntingly so as I fear for disappointing so many, both with its quality, and the fact I can't dedicate as much into its development as people hope and ask for. Even still, I hope you can forgive me for not being able to rise to expectations, especially in regard to the pace of development, or the length of silence revolving it. The one thing I can promise, is that I still love this creation of mine, and all of you who have seen and may continue to see it flourish, and I do not plan to end its development unless I die a very painful, early death.
Thank you very much!
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ineffable-endearments · 8 months ago
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The Crow Road by Iain Banks
I finished The Crow Road and had a little time to think about it. I'll put my thoughts under a Keep Reading in case anyone is trying to avoid spoilers.
As I speculated before, I think it's likely that The Crow Road is more related to Good Omens in philosophy than in plot. I mean, it's not that the plots necessarily have nothing in common, and we could be very surprised in the end of course, but now that I've read the whole book, its philosophical commonalities with GO are both apparent and kind of inspiring. Also, if I were a writer, I'd be more interested in dropping hints about what themes are important than telegraphing my whole plot ahead of time.
So here, I will describe the book and point out themes that I believe may reappear in Good Omens 3.
This is a long post. If you read it, make a cup of [beverage of choice].
Update on 4/20/2024: I made a second post: The Crow Road and Good Omens: Further-Out Thoughts
Below are mentions of suicide, death/murder, and sexual acts.
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The Crow Road centers around a character named Prentice McHoan, a university student in Scotland who starts to sort out his complicated relationship with his complicated family as he explores the mystery of his uncle Rory's disappearance. Although the book is mostly from Prentice's perspective, the narration jumps around in time with the McHoan family. There are quite a lot of important characters to keep track of; the bare-bones summary I put below doesn't even include some of the important ones. I wanted to make the summary even shorter and simpler than this, but the truth is that this book is not short or simple, and if I made the summary any simpler, it might be downright misleading.
There are at least three major cultural aspects of The Crow Road that I am inexperienced with: the overall culture in the 1950s-1980s (I was born in 1988, so of course wasn't here for the relevant decades), the international experience of the Gulf War (again, born in 1988), and the history and culture of Scotland itself (I'm USAmerican with only reading as a source). As a result, I'm sure there are important dimensions to the book that I've missed. If someone has a different perspective taking some of these things into account, I'd love to know about it.
Also, keep in mind, there is a great deal of descriptive writing in this book. There are a lot of pages about the geography of Scotland, and about Prentice as a kid, and about Prentice's father and uncles hanging out together in their youth, and about various family incidents, and about Prentice spending time with his brothers and friends. At first, these passages seem to just make things more confusing, and in my head, I accused them of being "filler." But they definitely serve a purpose. They're a way of showing and not telling the characters' attitudes and relationships to each other. More importantly, because we get to actually live these experiences with the characters, they are what give all the plot points below their deeper emotional impacts. In other words, the everyday experiences give the plot its deeper meaning. They resonate with one of the core themes in the novel: that our experiences in life, rather than any supposed existence after death, are what matters.
The Crow Road's story is like this:
Prentice is rather directionless in life, and he seems to have trouble investing any energy in his own future as he moons over his unrequited feelings for an idealized young woman named Verity. Soon, Verity ends up in a romance with Prentice's brother, Lewis, and Prentice feels that Lewis "stole" her from him. Prentice has also become estranged from his father, Kenneth, over spirituality. Prentice believes there has to be something more after death because he feels it would be incredibly unfair if people didn't get anything other than this one life; Kenneth is not only a passionate atheist, but is offended by the notion of an afterlife.
Prentice's uncle Hamish, Kenneth's brother, has always been religious, although his religion involves a number of bizarre and offbeat ideas of his own, with inspiration from more traditional Christian notions. Prentice is not really sure about this ideology, but he's willing to talk to Hamish about it and even participates during Hamish's prayers, whereas Kenneth is openly scornful of Hamish's beliefs. Hamish interprets this as Prentice being on "his side."
Prentice has a few opportunities to go back and talk to his father, and is begged to do so by his mom, Mary, with whom his relationship is still good. Mary doesn't want either of the men to give up their inner ideas about the universe; she just wants them to agree to disagree and move on as a family. Prentice says he will visit, but he just keeps putting it off and off and off.
Prentice acquires a folder containing some of his missing uncle Rory's notes in the process of hooking up with Rory's former girlfriend, Janice Rae, who seems to have taken a shine to Prentice because he reminds her of Rory. Using the contents of the folder, Prentice wants to piece together the great literary work that Rory left unfinished, which Rory titled Crow Road; however, it becomes apparent that Rory didn't turn his concepts into anything substantial and only had a bunch of disconnected notes and ideas. He hadn't even decided whether Crow Road would be a novel, a play, or something else. The few bits of Rory's poetry for Crow Road read are bleak and depressing.
Prentice also spends a lot of time with a young woman named Ash. They've been good friends since childhood and seem to have a somewhat flirtatious dynamic now, but they aren't in a romantic relationship; mostly, they drink and hang out together. Ash tells Prentice bluntly to get his life back on track when she finds out he's failing at school, avoiding his family, and engaging in shoplifting. She is a voice of reason, and when Prentice insists to her that he's just a failure, she reminds him that actually, he's just a kid.
Prentice's efforts to figure out Rory's story or location stagnate, and he continues to fail at school and avoid his father. He then receives word that Kenneth was killed while debating faith with Hamish. In fact, Kenneth dies after a fall from a church lightning rod, which he was climbing in an act of defiance against Hamish's philosophy when it was struck by lightning; Hamish is convinced that Kenneth had incurred God's wrath. Ash is there for support when Prentice finds out about the death.
With Ash's help, Prentice returns to his hometown again to help manage Kenneth's affairs. Prentice speaks with a very shaken Hamish, who is handling Kenneth's death with extreme drama and making it all about his own feelings. Hamish tells Prentice that Kenneth was jealous that Prentice shared more in common with Hamish's faith than with Kenneth's lack of faith. However, this isn't really true, and as he contemplates his father's death, Prentice begins to internalize one of the last things Hamish reported that Kenneth had argued: "All the gods are false. Faith itself is idolatry."
As the chapters go on, Prentice is compelled by some of the meaningful items related to Rory that he discovers in his father's belongings. He gains a renewed sense of purpose trying to solve the mystery of where Rory went and what happened to him. Among the interesting items are an ancient computer disk of Rory's that Prentice can't access with any equipment he can find; Ash uses her connections in the US and Canada to find a computer expert who can finally open the files on it. This takes quite a while, since the disk has to be mailed and Ash's connection is investigating the disk only in his free time.
Prentice also discovers that his feelings for Verity have changed. He no longer feels angry with Lewis for "stealing her." At first, Prentice's narration describes this as his feelings "cooling" as a result of the trauma of losing his father, but interestingly, this soon means Prentice gets to know Verity as a sister-in-law without getting caught up in jealous romantic feelings. Verity gets along well with the family, and Prentice is actually happy to discover that she and Lewis have a baby on the way. Prentice's relationship with Lewis improves greatly as well, partly because he is no longer jealous and partly because he realizes he does not want to lose Lewis, too.
Ash's connection who was looking at Rory's computer disk comes through and sends the printed contents of the files to Prentice. The files reveal to him that Rory likely knew Prentice's uncle, Fergus, murdered his wife by unbuckling her seat belt and crashing their car. Rory had written out a fictional version of events and considered using it in Crow Road. I'm not clear on exactly how certain Rory was about Fergus's crime, or whether Rory would have intentionally reported Ferg, or whether Rory even had enough proof to publicly accuse Ferg of murder, but people would likely have connected the dots in Rory's work and become suspicious of Ferg. For this reason, Prentice believes Ferg murdered Rory as well.
Prentice confronts Ferg. He doesn't get a confession and leaves Ferg's home with no concrete proof of anything; Ferg denies it all. But Prentice is soon physically assaulted in the night, and it seems Ferg was almost certainly the culprit, because he hadn't been home that same night, and he had injuries (probably from being fought off) the next day. A day or two later, Ferg's body is found unconscious in the cockpit of a plane, which crashes into the ocean. It's uncertain whether this was a suicide, but Prentice suspects it was. Rory's body is then soon recovered from the bottom of a waterway near Prentice's home, where Ferg had sunk it years ago.
As the mysteries are solved, Prentice realizes his feelings for Ash are romantic love. However, it's too late, he thinks, because Ash is about to take a job in Canada, where she may or may not stay. Prentice also hesitates to approach her because he's embarrassed about his previous behavior, venting all his angst about Verity and his father. He isn't sure she would even want to be in a relationship with him after that. But the very night before Ash leaves, she kisses Prentice on the cheek, which leads to a deeper kiss. They finally connect, have sex, and confess their mutual feelings. Ash still goes to her job in Canada, but says she'll come back when Prentice is done with his studies that summer.
The relationship's future is somewhat uncertain because something could come up while Ash is in Canada, but Prentice is hopeful. The book ends with Prentice getting ready to graduate with his grades on track as a history scholar, fully renouncing his belief in an afterlife while he acknowledges the inherent importance of our experiences in our lives now, and enjoying his time with Lewis and Verity and his other family members.
What's the point of all these hundreds of pages?
Well, look at all of the above; there's definitely more than one point. But the main point I took away is that we get this one life, with our loved ones in this world here and now, and this is where we make our meanings. There is no other meaning, but that doesn't mean there's no meaning at all. It means the meaning is here.
It's not death that gives life its meaning. It's the things we do while alive that give life its deeper meaning.
The Crow Road is described (on Wikipedia) as a Bildungsroman, a story focusing on the moral and philosophical growth and change of its main character as they transition from childhood to adulthood ("coming-of-age novel" is a similar term that is interchangeable, but more vague and not necessarily focused on morality/philosophy). And, indeed, all of the plots ultimately tie into Prentice's changed philosophy.
After his argument with Kenneth, Prentice feels childish and humiliated, and as a result, he refuses to go back home, which leads to a spiral of shame and depression. Kenneth dies and Prentice realizes it's too late to repair the relationship, which also leads him to realize it's what we do in life that matters, and that therefore, his father's argument was correct after all.
At the end of the novel, Prentice outright describes his new philosophy. However, I can't recall one specific passage where Prentice describes the process of how he changed his mind (if anyone else can remember something I missed, do let me know). There is, however, a moment when his narration indicates that Hamish seems less disturbed by his own part in the incident that led to Kenneth's death and more disturbed by the notion that his beliefs might actually be true: there might actually be an angry, vengeful God. In other words, Hamish's philosophy is selfish at its core.
My interpretation is that when his father died, Prentice realized three things: how utterly self-serving Hamish's devout faith is, how Kenneth's untimely death proves the importance of working things out now rather than in an imaginary afterlife, and how much profound meaning Kenneth had left behind despite having no faith at all. After these realizations, a determined belief in an afterlife no longer makes our lives here more profound like Prentice once thought it did.
Also, it's worth noting that this incident changes Prentice's idea of partnership, too. He loses interest in this distant, idealized woman he's been after. In love as in the rest of life, Prentice lets go of his ideals, and in doing so, he makes room for true meaning, both in a sincere familial, platonic connection with Verity and a sincere intimate, romantic connection with Ash.
But what about the sex scene?!
Yes, indeed, at the tail end of the story, Prentice and Ash have sex and admit they want to be in a relationship together. Prentice's narration describes them sleeping together and having intercourse not just once, but many times, including some slow and relaxed couplings during which they flex the muscles in their private parts to spell out "I.L.Y." and "I.L.Y.T." to each other in Morse code. This is relevant because earlier, they had been surprised and delighted to discover that they both knew Morse code; it isn't a detail that came from nowhere.
I didn't get the impression that this scene was trying to be especially titillating to the reader. It was mostly just a list of stuff the characters did together. I felt the point was that they were still anxious about being emotionally honest, a little desperate to convey their feelings without having to speak them out loud, and awkward in a way that made it obvious that their primary concern was the feelings, not the sexual performance. They cared about each other, but they weren't trying to be impressive or put on a show; contrast this with previous scenes where Prentice would act like a clown in front of Ash to diffuse his own anxiety. I've always thought that being able to have awkward sex and still enjoy it is a good sign.
Okay, so what does this all have to do with Good Omens?
Here's where I have to get especially interpretive. I'm doing my best, but of course, not everyone reading this will have the same perspective on Good Omens, the Final Fifteen especially. I believe similar themes are going to resonate between The Crow Road and Good Omens regardless of our particular interpretations of the characters' behavior and motivations, but I suppose it could hit differently for some people.
The TL;DR: I see similar themes between The Crow Road and Good Omens in:
The importance of mortal life on Earth
Meaning (or purpose) as something that we create as we live, not something that is handed to us by a supreme being
Sincere connection and love/passion (for people, causes, arts, life's work, etc) as a type of meaning/purpose
Relationships as reflections of philosophy
The dual nature of humanity
Life on Earth as the important part of existence is a core theme in Good Omens, and has been since the very beginning. We all already know Adam chose to preserve the world as it already is because he figured this out, and we all already know Aziraphale and Crowley have been shaped for the better by their experiences on Earth. But Good Omens isn't done with this theme by a long shot. I think this is the most important thematic commonality Good Omens will have with The Crow Road. Closely related is the notion that we create our meanings as we live, rather than having them handed to us. Isn't this, in a way, what Aziraphale struggles with in A Companion to Owls? He's been given this meaning, this identity, that doesn't fit him. But does he have anything else to be? Not yet.
Partnerships as a parallel to the characters' philosophical development also resonates as a commonality that The Crow Road may have with Good Omens. Prentice's obsession with Verity goes away when he starts to embrace the importance of life on Earth and makes room for his sincere relationship with Ash. Note their names: "Verity" is truth, an ideal Prentice's father instills in him; "Ashley" means "dweller in the ash tree meadow" in Anglo-Saxon, according to Wikipedia, and "ash" is one of the things people return to after death. Prentice literally trades his high ideals for life on Earth. We see in Aziraphale a similar tug-o'-war between Heaven's distant ideals and Crowley's Earthly pleasures, so I can see a similar process potentially playing out for him.
I don't particularly recall a ton of thematic exploration of free will in The Crow Road. However, there is a glimmer of something there: Prentice feels excessively controlled by Kenneth's desire to pass down his beliefs, and part of the reason Prentice is so resistant to change is simply his frustration with feeling censored and not being taken seriously. As the reader, I do get the feeling that while Prentice is immature, Kenneth made major mistakes in handling their conflict, too. And Kenneth's mistakes come from trying to dictate Prentice's thoughts. There is likely some crossover with Good Omens in the sense that I'm pretty sure both stories are going to take the position that people need to be allowed to make mistakes, and to do things that one perceives as mistakes, without getting written off as "stupid" or "bad" or otherwise "unworthy."
Suffice it to say that the human characters in Good Omens will also certainly play into these themes, but it's hard to write about them when we don't know much about them except that one of them is almost certainly the reincarnation of Jesus. This also makes me suspect perhaps the human cast will be 100% entirely all-new, or mostly new, symbolic of how Aziraphale and Crowley have immersed themselves in the ever-evolving, ever-changing world of life on Earth. Alternatively, if we encounter human characters again from Season 1 or 2, perhaps the ways they've grown and changed will be highlighted. For example, even in real-world time, Adam and Warlock have already, as of the time I'm writing this, gone through at least one entire life stage (from 11 in 2019 to 16 in 2024). They'll be legal adults in a couple of years, and if there's a significant time skip, they could be much older. If characters from Season 1 do reappear and themes from The Crow Road are prominent, I would expect either some key scenes highlighting contrasts and changes from their younger selves or for stagnation and growth to be a central part of their plot.
The more I write, the more I just interpret everything in circles. Hopefully this post has at least given you a decent idea of what The Crow Road is like and how it may relate to Good Omens.
I'll end this post with a quotation that feels relevant:
Telling us straight or through his stories, my father taught us that there was, generally, a fire at the core of things, and that change was the only constant, and that we – like everybody else – were both the most important people in the universe, and utterly without significance, depending, and that individuals mattered before their institutions, and that people were people, much the same everywhere, and when they appeared to do things that were stupid or evil, often you hadn’t been told the whole story, but that sometimes people did behave badly, usually because some idea had taken hold of them and given them an excuse to regard other people as expendable (or bad), and that was part of who we were too, as a species, and it wasn’t always possible to know that you were right and they were wrong, but the important thing was to keep trying to find out, and always to face the truth. Because truth mattered. Iain Banks, The Crow Road
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hollowed-theory-hall · 2 months ago
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Hi! Me again!
Lately I've reading a lot of Harry/Severus fanfics and I think it's a interesting ship. Do you have any thoughts about Severus as character? And what do you think about the ship Harry/Severus? Do you think it could work? 🤔
I look forward to reading your thoughts on this.
Spirea ✨
Hi again 👋
Took me a while to get to this ask, and like with all things shipping, ship whatever you want, have fun, it's fictional, and these are just my thoughts.
So, I obviously do have thoughts about Severus as a character. It's hard not to when he's as relevant as he is to the plot. I mentioned my general thoughts about him here. The summary of these thoughts is that I find him interesting for a multitude of reasons, and I like that he's usually competent, if emotionally unstable.
Now, about Snarry, personally, I'm not a Snarry shipper. A few years ago, I tried to read some Snarry fic, out of curiosity. Like, when I see a ship idea that either intrigues me or makes me go "wtf?!" in a good way, I often check out a fic or two, just to see what's it about, see if I'm interested. In the case of Snarry, I wasn't.
Like, I read a lot of Severitus (Severus as a mentor/father figure to Harry) around that same time, and I preferred that dynamic over the romance.
Now, ignoring my own preference, would this work?
Eh... depends on how you define work.
Like, this relationship would be a mess for so many reasons (which I guess is part of the appeal). Like, even ignoring the age difference and student-teacher taboos or if we're talking post-war Severus-lives AUs, this is going to be messy.
Like, a lot of fans talk about Sirius projecting James onto Harry, but I don't think he does, if anyone is projecting James onto Harry, it's Severus. He does treat Harry more like an equal threat than a student (which lends itself to Snarry if you wanna go there), but it also means Severus spends the books having no idea who Harry is until pretty late in the story when he starts glimpsing that maybe he isn't James, but then chooses to ignore all these glimpses. He is actually, legitimately terrified of Harry.
Like, Severus doesn't allow himself to see Harry as a separate person from James, who he despises. So, you gotta work through that to make the ship work.
Harry is a very empathetic and forgiving person, so I'm not putting forgiving Snape and moving on with his life past him, since it's kind of what he did anyway.
The reason I liked Severitus is because Snape and Harry have things in common working for their dynamic. They both had abusive home lives as children. They both share the responsibility for something so much greater. Severus in the books isn't just living for himself, he's carrying this fucking war on his shoulders, and by book 7, Harry is too. They are two characters that due to their respective traumas and life circumstances never really got to have a childhood (and in Snape's case an adulthood, since he didn't really choose to be a teacher) So they have the potential to understand each other so well under different circumstances.
I also think Severus would appreciate Harry's sass the moment he stopped seeing him as James and stopped perceiving the disrespect as a threat. And in Severitus, I like that Sev is a connection to Lily Harry usually doesn't get (since Sirius and Remus only really talk about James) but in Snarry, it's kinda icky for me.
Like, I don't like that Severus would be projecting either James or Lily on Harry in an equal relationship because he kinda would. He already does, and it's going to be a mess.
I'm also not sure how well their temperaments would really work together. Like, they're both not great with emotional regulation and are inclined towards anger and petty retribution/vengeance. It means that whenever they disagree with each other on the smallest thing ever, it'll be super easy for it to blow out of proportion and become big because they have a point. Like, Harry would say something cheeky that'll anger Snape more, and it doesn't matter if they are at school or post Hogwarts, their relationship doesn't matter, Snape's gonna say "twenty points from Gryffindor," on instinct (could be really funny in a post-war story, not so funny if Harry's a student). Like, their relationship would just be very volatile, which is not something I'm personally into, but that you're allowed to like in fic.
Basically, they will need to put a lot of work in to make their relationship work and for them to stay together as a romantic pair. Severitus is different since there is a clear power structure, Severus doesn't feel threatened by Harry and Harry knows Severus isn't his peer in that dynamic. Romance is different, since to make a romance work, they need to see each other as equals, which for Snape, means seeing Harry as a potential threat to himself and his image, and for Harry, it means treating Snape as someone he can sass and disrespect (which would make Snape's fears worse, and kinda what we see in the books).
And that's before talking about Snape's guilt about this relationship. Like, he already hates himself and would take any excuse to hate himself further while pretending it's all fine, he'll insist that everything is good through gritted teeth and the veneer of pride. Especially if Harry's still a student, Snape knows it's wrong, and he shouldn't, but he still would and crucify himself inside his own mind. He'd imagine Lily screaming at him over it, or something. So that, like, adds to the mess. Even post-war I think Severus would think he shouldn't for so many reasons. He'd find more and more reasons why not. So, like, Harry would need to be the one to pursue the relationship, and I don't really see him doing it without substantial divergence/AU sprinkled in.
Like, I don't think they would realistically get together, but fic is fic, and therefore anything could happen. These are just my thoughts.
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rinasunny · 1 year ago
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The Lavatory scene in Red Eye's final shooting script and the movie
One of my previous posts was about how much the first script draft of Red Eye differed from the final product. The draft discussed in this post is more or less final. This draft has all the changes made after Rachel and Cillian were cast as leads and after the test screenings. But there are still some features which didn't make the cut into the final product. I'm not gonna analyse the whole script here, but shippers' favorite scene - the lavatory scene. Yeah, you can always rely on this scene to bring some juicy stuff.
SPOILERS AHEAD
Okay let's start from the moment Lisa enters the bathroom alone.
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Frankly speaking, for now, I prefer the movie version. Especially the line "Okay, get up" instead of "Oh my God..." Wes Craven said in the DVD commentary about this moment:
This was tricky, between making her totally collapse, but not have her totally pathetic. And she very quickly gets herself under control.
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Next, there is an interesting description of Rippner:
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Also, the message on the mirror was meant to be revealed slightly earlier, but whatever.
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I'm not sure about Rippner's lines here, because half of it is barely audible in the film. Also quite ironic that the underlined part is not in the movie at all.
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Okay, now really important stuff starts kicking in. Rippner practically spills out the fact that he is ATTRACTED to Lisa right at her face. The script makes it clear, that she now knows this and tries to use his attraction (and his regret) to persuade him to give up on Keefe assassination plan. Funny enough, she almost succeeds until he notices her scar. Personally, I think "You're beautiful..." line (and hair brushing) should have stayed in the final cut. Not only for the sake of the ship, but for the fact that without it Lisa's "You don't have to do this" sounds really naive.
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Some of you may argue that this is all relevant for the movie, they just made it more subtle. Well, Movie-Lisa's best guess that Movie-Rippner might be attracted to her is the way Cillian looks at Rachel. On one hand many people point out that they do have chemistry and sexual tension, on the other the movie on its own leaves watchers to wonder whether the characters had any romantic feelings towards each other or not. And I probably stumbled upon a comment on YouTube, which interpreted the "You don't have to do this" line more as "You're so pretty, why do you have to be evil?" (or something along these lines)
Also I think that clarification would make Lisa a more nuanced character (by the fact that she tries to manipulate a villain into giving up on his villainy).
Also, as you may have noticed, the scar was meant to be on her neck, makes sence, given her backstory (He held a knife to my throat). I guess they moved it down just so Rippner wouldn't notice it earlier (though the script also mentions, that Lisa was meant to wear a sweater). I, personally, on the back of my horny mind, think he wasn't looking for scar when he gazed on her breast ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°).
A little note: Script-Lisa looks away saying "No" while Rachel looks straight into his eyes, but starts trembling instead.
By the way, Rippner wasn't meant to slam and choke her just yet.
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I guess he just let her out to wipe out the messege. Here Lisa gives up on conving him.
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Only after he finished wiping he starts to choke her. Also, pay CLOSE ATTENTION on what Rippner's lips do here ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°). Yep, he almost kisses her.
I guess the changes movie made here were for the sake of pacing.
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Another important difference: Rippner fixes both their outlooks to be more presentable. Lisa protests a bit.
I guess the movie crew decided they don't need to fix their look that much.
Also, I prefer the movie's "Peachy" instead of just "Good", though both lines are in the movie lol.
On the final note, I guess "Thanks for the quickie" line makes a bit more sence given we have Rippner's crawling lips there ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°).
So, these were the differences of the lavatory scene between the script and the movie. Hope you had as much shipping excitement as I did.
P.S: The link to the script. If you're a fan I strongly suggest to download it, it may easily become a lost media, like an earlier draft.
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amarayys · 3 months ago
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DRDT CHAPTER 2 EPISODE 12 SPOILERS UNDER CUT
teruko with glasses oh my teruko with glasses oh my teruko with glasses oh my
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okay so i think it's really weird how hu keeps interrupting nico and talking for them. i think hu might be faking being with nico in the morning. Some notes before we begin: I suck at theories. please don't bully me /hj Hu and Nico might (??) be OOC for this, forgive me. My formatting sucks, but I tried. This is not meant to be an attack on Nico, Hu, or anybody who disagrees with this theory. please don't burn me at the stake /j If I accidently use the wrong pronouns for Nico at any point, please point it out so I can fix it!!! I've proof read this like 3 times because I keep making mistakes, but I DONT TRUST MYSELF. IDK WHAT TO CALL THIS SECTION LMFAO First of all, Nico never actually confirms being with Hu in the morning. They actually don't comment or react to it at all as far as the viewers can see. Hu has also been speaking for Nico (and interrupting them) quite a bit whenever they start to try defend themselves for a lot of chapter 2. Even before the trial, Hu has never actually let Nico defend themselves, instead just shouting at anybody who even tries to suspect them. ACE ATTACK Before I go on, let me say - I *do* believe Nico was the one who attacked Ace, and they did it without any outside influence. Nico confirms that they did attempt to kill ace, (image) without any prompting from Hu. Maybe Hu was involved in some way - for example, maybe she lent them the wire? - but she could also be in denial that Nico would do anything like murder and Nico got wire from storage or simply just stole it from Hu, which is what they probably did. We've seen them steal before (cough cough ROSE TURPENTINE) . I'm actually not too sure which one it could be... or if it's something completely separate, but that's not too relevant to the main topic of this post anyway. i seriously doubt hu forced nico to kill ace and I think this theory is based on the fact people think nico is some weak little baby (btw this is not an attack on people who believe this theory) cough cough anyway
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MOTIVES So...why would Hu lie? Why is Nico going along with it? Well, I have a few (shaky) ideas. 1. Hu came up with her and Nico's "alibi" in the moment, and it wasn't premeditated. Why? To keep herself and Nico (as she clearly cares for them) out of suspicion, whether they are involved in the murder or not Nico went along with it because they didn't want to be suspected, (we've seen them lie about what they were doing during murders in chapter 1 - where they claimed to be in their room while in reality they were walking around the place - because they didn't want to be suspected. They then proceed to heap blame on everyone without alibies to get suspicion off them, even though they had nothing to do with the case and were most likely just scared of being suspected as the blackened)
OR Nico didn't really notice Hu lying, and they were more focused on being interrupted. (again, nico doesn't confirm/comment on Hu saying they were together, instead focusing on how they keep getting interrupted)
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OR
Nico is the murderer and is threatening/manipulating Hu to cover for them. This would be pretty ironic, seeming as many think it's the other way around... but Nico has no reason to go for Arei, and basically all the people left have more evidence against them, so I doubt it. Just thought I should include this anyway 2. It was premeditated, Hu is the culprit and Nico is being threatened/manipulated (for the whole of chapter 2??) and is helping her out. I **REALLY** doubt this, there's nothing to support this and it's VERY ooc for both Hu and Nico. It just doesn't work. Also, as I mentioned, Nico would not just kill somebody cause Hu told them too. Nico is NOT A PUSHOVER LISTEN TO ME- ahem. So no, I don't believe in this, but I suppose it's a possibility?? OR It was premeditated, they are both lying to cover each other, whether they are the culprit or not. Kind of OOC for them, but maybe??? I think I'm going to go with the first idea, along with Nico either not noticing Hu's lies or just going along with it to stay safe. It's just the most likely and most in-character for them. SUMMARY. Alright, here we go. PRE-MURDER: Nico steals (or simply just asks for, seeing as Hu would never suspect them) Hu's wire and uses it to cut Ace's neck open. Hu in uninvolved in Ace's murder any further than that. 1. Hu sees an opportunity to come up with an alibi for her and Nico. She doesn't want people to suspect them, so she lies in order to keep them safe and out of suspicion. She needs to keep everyone safe, as she sees herself as useless if she can't help people (episode 11 dialogue yall!!!) especially Nico, so she lies to keep them away from suspicion. 2. a) Nico notices Hu's lies. They hesitate, before realising the opportunity. They won't have to fight the others and be under suspicion if they have an "alibi". Hu will continue to defend them. They decide to divert the attention to them being interrupted again and don't say anything about Hu lying. 2. b) Nico fails to notice Hu's lies, more focused on being interrupted again. Their frustration leads them to completely miss Hu's comment, and the topic moves on. OR Im reaching per usual and nobody was lying about anybody's alibies. wooah. this was fun to make, although it kinda sucks.... ANYWAY, let me know what you think!!
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o-uncle-newt · 1 year ago
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I'm not going to reblog Neil Gaiman's thing about how S2's episodes "don't have any fat on them" but I DO have some (spoilery) reactions to that below the cut-
OK so I already did another post here where I gave my impressions of the writing- but Gaiman mentioning this actually reminded me of something that I didn't put in there at all but kind of wish I had.
Because honestly, I don't think that the episodes not having any fat on them is a good thing.
Here's the thing- Good Omens, the book and the first season of the TV show, is a bunch of set pieces that loosely come together into a plot. The TV show less so, maybe- there's more of an effort to create a narrative- but fundamentally it's a bunch of ridiculous stuff all strung together to create the Apocalypse. (Like, there's a reason why book fans were so upset when the Four Other Horsemen of the Apocalypse didn't show up in the show- they did literally nothing for the plot but they were absolutely hilarious.)
So far, in the first 2 episodes of S2, I have to agree with Gaiman that there's no fat on them. And I think that's one of the things that kind of threw me. EVERYTHING that has happened thus far has felt like it's something that's probably going to lead to something else, like it's connective tissue for the upcoming story that will presumably make more sense later- and while there's plenty of entertainment and humor and sweetness, it's all to the point. You have to be paying attention, you have to take everything seriously (even if it's something that by rights feels inherently unserious) because it could matter later.
In S1, you didn't have to think too carefully about why a telemarketer is being eaten by maggots or even why there's still a witchfinder in the 21st century (for the show) because fundamentally it doesn't REALLY matter. Something will all come together at the end and in the meantime you can just enjoy it in the spirit in which it's given, which is of course an insane one. Each scene is just fun on its own. (I think this is in some ways truer in the book than the show- there were a lot of these scenes that I don't think worked on the show- but that was more about the execution than the concept.)
The fat in S1 was the good part, really. The plot wasn't all that important- it was all the moments along the way.
The closest thing to fat (to continue to use the metaphor) in S2, so far, is the minisode. It's the only thing where it doesn't necessarily feel like you'll be tested on it later. And it's also easily the best part of those episodes! You can just watch it and take all the ridiculousness for granted because it doesn't really matter. It's there to draw out the characters, it's there to give the world more color, and it's there to entertain.
Not that S2 isn't also there to entertain- it very much is, but it doesn't really have time to. It can be silly and random in the way that the book and S1 are, but instead of those being random throwaway moments (like Newt blacking out all of Dorking in the book- which signifies that his tech-unsavviness may be relevant to the plot later but is really mostly just there to entertain because it's so out-there), they are intrinsically tied into whatever the plot will turn out to be. That's really clear, even though we don't actually know yet exactly what the plot is going to be! The leanness of the plot is immediately evident.
I think, so far, that the main negative consequence is that it makes it so much harder to suspend disbelief. When you have a ridiculous moment in a throwaway scene, that's worldbuilding- it shows that this is the kind of world where ridiculous things happen, and then when a particular ridiculous moment ends up being important to the plot, that's fine because it's part of a whole constellation of ridiculous things in this ridiculous world- they've already deconstructed our sense of disbelief. When all you're getting is plot, when something a bit crazy happens you're like "oh, hang on, that doesn't make sense, that's a bit farfetched."
I think that that's one of the things that, so far, is giving "fanfic vibes" to the first two episodes. Maggie and Nina get locked into the cafe? In their first episode?! When we know that they're going to get together?!?! That's ridiculous. In the book and to a lesser degree S1, where like five other ridiculous things would have already happened that aren't heavily signaled to be important to the plot (Gabriel doesn't count because we know he's important to the plot too), this would just be one more ridiculous thing. In S2, it feels like something we need to suspend disbelief for because we haven't really had it suspended for us yet.
Everything I write about Good Omens here is going to come down to John Finnemore in the end because I can't help myself lol, but honestly, my first thought was "well he's really into plotting, so maybe this is part of that." But- he's also done nine and a bit seasons of a sketch show. While he was writing this he was also writing a season of JFSP (the sublime S9) where there was very minimal plot but everything was propelled by character building sketches, very much in the spirit of Good Omens. He knows exactly the power of random ridiculous moments to build the world and explain its ludicrousness. When him being a writer was announced, I saw so many people say "he's definitely got a bonkers enough brain to do this" except that it turns out that, while true, his bonkers sketch-writing brain doesn't really have a lot to do here.
That, plus the fact that I'd be really surprised from everything that I've heard over the last 2ish years if Gaiman wasn't the first and final voice behind everything written for this season, leads me to the conclusion that the issue might just be that S2 may be, as a group effort, over-plotted for its length. There's little room to breathe and live in the world. There are barely any humans, and as such there's not much time to remember that the story is set in a world where humans matter, which, as I pointed out in my previous post, is something that was really important in Good Omens the book and S1. It just doesn't have any fat.
Now- I should be clear- as I said with the other post, it is way too early to tell if GO2 is good or not, because all of the stuff in E1-2 was clearly building up to other things that haven't happened yet. I actually think S2 probably will be good. The above may not be "issues" per se. But I do think that talking about the original Good Omens like the "fat" is the problem kind of misses the point of why so many people liked it- and leaves GO2 with a pretty big burden to overcome in order to convince viewers that it is a continuation of the same world and same story they loved in S1.
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utilitycaster · 4 hours ago
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second run updates now that I'm on the train up for Thanksgiving (under a cut for length and spoilers)
I probably could have changed my combat level to Easy somewhere mid-first run but honestly doing so as a mage, when all the Primer/Detonator stuff is a lot more relevant, is kind of great! I wish the intro tooltips were more easily accessible (ie, I don't know where you can reference them at all after the fact) but I am picking it up. I must admit there's benefits and drawbacks and it's hard at this point to say if I prefer it to warrior (I do not have the rogue temperament and probably never will sorry), since mentally I am comparing high level nigh-unkillable warrior stuff on story mode to baby mage on keeper mode. It IS very nice to have elemental damage on tap. It is NOT very nice to have like half the HP. Also you get mage dialogue options which is very exciting, and you get both a decorative orb in your room and a magic orb with which to do damage, which is the best thing ever. So much orb pondering. There are zero warrior dialogue options, possibly because you do not have any particular knowledge as a warrior. I also have way more faction dialogue options as a Shadow Dragon.
Neve likes me more this time around but flirtation options with her have not yet opened up. I also don't recall having any flirtation options with her post-dragon attack despite knowing it's technically possible so I think there might be an INCREDIBLY narrow window for expressing interest in her, which is 1. apt and 2. funny. The Viper is very nice to me and wrote me a very nice letter but Tarquin still hates me, which is great. I support him.
Things I have noticed that I missed last time due to The Motion Sickness or not knowing how controls work or not knowing lore: It is indeed VERY obvious the second Solas realizes what's going on and decides to trick Rook about Varric. I either didn't notice because I had no basis of comparison or wasn't looking around as much, but the Lighthouse starts off GRIM. AND the two Veil Jumpers you meet on Bellara's quest are the ones Anaris kills. I do feel this sort of contributes to the issue I mentioned with the Veil Jumpers though, in that even the one you rescue in Harding's quest isn't named. The only ones with names that aren't Bellara, Strife, or Irelin all die, and I don't think you encounter those two in camp beforehand either, though I haven't checked. Like, literally I cannot stress enough that an elvish name generator instead of "veil jumper 2" would have done WONDERS. Other things: Varric knows about things you literally haven't told anyone (though to be fair one can think that Neve or Harding told him) and his facial injuries heal much, much faster than those of your companion who was injured (Neve in my case). The Converged City is initially full of Orlesians, and I do not know why. It does feel nice to see Dock Town intact again and I look forward to seeing it as such until the endgame.
There haven't been too many options to do things differently yet, but I did release the mayor this time, and I have been way meaner to Solas, which is very satisfying.
Finally: I also am tracking all the faction/location sidequests in a spreadsheet so I can provide a better like, sense of the vibe and also when they unlock. I must admit I don't know if I have gotten all the chests because I didn't realize you couldn't go back to all levels of the Ossuary at the end of the quest, but I do intend to get all the ones on the places I can visit regularly. I also know I specifically did an absolutely terrible job seeing the Dellamorte mansion, so looking forward to that.
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dionysism · 4 months ago
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do u want to rant abt theseus or any greek hero with various perceptions here ??
why yes! i certainly do!
okay theseus. this is my personal thoughts on him and it's not all based in mythos (some is but i definitely derail from it a bit with him i just Love to spin him around in my brain) and some of it does happen to line up with how the hades game characterized him which is funny and so personally catering to me but i'm not necessarily referring to his hades counterpart. but you could certainly read it in relation to him if you wanted!
i think theseus is really interesting and part of this comes from him having varying mythos from various accounts that all have their own take on him. some are sympathetic towards him (forced by dionysus to leave ariadne behind & he was so distraught that's what caused him to forget to change his sails) while others paint him in a less kind light (he just ditched her) and sometimes he's kind of stupid (going into the underworld with his best friend thinking they could capture persephone for the best friend to marry) and yet he's also very clever (out-witting and reversering the tatics onto his enemies in his six labors) so he's really fun to play with as a character because there's a lot you can do with him without really being "wrong" because it just depends on what you're pulling from & he has a lot. someone else mentioned it before in my tags and it's something i also find neat about him and it's that he's there for other hereos at their lowest (when herakles kills megara & the kids and his kindness to oedipus when everyone else is afraid his mere presence will curse them by proxy)
an interpretation of him i've always had (and i say interpretation because there isn't really anything that says theseus' confidence is a front in antiquity) is that he is secretly insecure and just overcompensates by acting very confident. and it's not to say that his insecurity has any real basis, with the six labors, the minotaur, divine parentage and so forth, he obviously is very successful and a great warrior. but you know. he had to earn it. he grew up in his mother's village and it wasn't until he moved the rock and claimed his father's sword & sandals and went to athens that he got his birth right. and his dad almost let him get poisoned until he recognized said sandals and sword 😭 and not long after that off to serve the city and slay the minotaur and it's like this post which is more about hades theseus but a good point and relevant he is the savior (and in many ways the mascot) of athens and poseidon is his parent too and i feel like all together this could add up to an extreme unwillingness to ever fail at anything ever. for god child theseus to fail is for athens to fail, and, you wouldn't want athens to fail, would you? of course not. i mean even the six labors. he didn't have to do that. he could have gone the quick & safe route by sea, and i mean yeah, obviously he didn't because this is greek mythology and there's no myth if he takes the easy path but it's also interesting to think about in the light of him needing to prove himself. and also, i think, he's a bit of an adrenaline junkie. like really enjoys the thrill of battle. maybe a little too much. like he's kind of a freak. i imagine a variation of him where the minotaur fight, with his bare hands (my fav depiction) was the most exciting experience of his life & he genuinely enjoyed the fight.
and him and ariadne. oh i love all kinds of varying takes and accounts and interpretations of them. theseus and ariadne are so fun. i mean really, any way you spin it (spin it.. like thread..). deceitful cunning theseus who feigns love for aid and leaves her behind once he gets what he needed. and yet, even then, he still took her with him. could've left her there in crete to face her treachery, if he cared so little, but he allowed her to flee with him. interesting! or perhaps, no, he did love her, perhaps more than anyone ever again, but a god had set his sights on her and so theseus had to let her go. and so stricken with grief was he that he forgot to change his sails, and well, how fitting, because he said he would change them if he was victorious, and was he? or even a ulysses dies at dawn type spin on them: neither of them care for the other at all! her using him purely as pr, "look how i've aided the hero in slaying the monster! and we're going to get married!" and him, "why, yes, of course i love you, and of course everyone will know we did it together!" only to spin around, take all the credit, and scorn her. (if you can't tell from my other posts i love udad theseus & ariadne lol) there's even one account he forgot her on naxos totally on accident and by the time he got back dionysus had already married her. which is just so?:$/?/ how do you forget to pack your fiancé 😭😭 i also like a take where he did love her, yes, but going back to that insecurity and unwillingness to fail i think he would be the type of person that would overthink things, assume you're going to leave him, and immediate respond by trying to save face and pride by leaving you first. i could see him on naxos in a moment of weakness and doubt thinking love gives her too much power over him and leaving her before she could hurt him. which, had they worked out, i don't think she ever would have. but i do like her with dionysus better anyway :P but ultimately no matter the variation i do believe theseus loved ariadne. even when he left her without divine influence, even in variations where it's despite himself. but i don't think they were meant to be.
and phaedra, oh god. he really did love phaedra. "how I long for it! long to lie dead. robbed as i am of the world of your love. your death is my death." & "you left me, you left, beloved one, finest of women seen by the light of the sun, or the starfaced night." (anne carson hippolytus trans) like i'm actually sick... robbed as i am of the world of your love are you kidding me. i think theseus is capable of so much love despite how many people think he's an asshole of a character. and i won't argue that he isn't also an asshole. because i mean yeah. but the love is there and i think you should know the love is there! theseus and phaedra. theseus "stain my clothes with the blood of your children i don't care i'm your friend." (paraphrased anne carson's herakles trans) theseus "never, i tell you, i will never shrink from a stranger, lost as you are now, or fail to lend a hand and save a life." (fagles oedipus at colonus trans) theseus "hateful to me is a gratitude that grows old. a friend who enjoys your prosperity but refuses to sail with your grief." (anne carson herakles trans) i mean i just. god. he's such a character to me.
but yeah tl:dr the theseus in my brain is a kind of insecure, overcompensating with over confidence, borderline adrenaline junkie that's ever endlessly proving he is The Great Theseus they all perceive him to be and gripping to this perception like a life line. if i am not the greatest i am nothing etc etc you get me. i think he can be selfish & an asshole but he is also full of love and proves this in how hes shown with phaedra, herakles, oedipus and, depending on your variation, ariadne. and again i definitely stray a little from mythos with my perception of him but it has its roots
& since you said "or any greek hero" i was also going to prattle off about my fav of all favs, odysseus, but this was wayyyyy longer than i intended it to be so i think i'm just gonna let theseus have this one for himself 😭
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babyrdie · 6 months ago
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Achilles stan are really hypocritical about Alexander now, did you see that?
No, I didn't see it.
I saw people mentioning something about Achilles and Paris, now there's this ask and I'm starting to wonder if the recent ask an anon sent me about Paris was a discreet way to test me (this one, where I explicitly say that I really don't care about Paris discourse). I honestly don't know where the hell this weekly Achilles vs Paris debate came from, so I'm really confused. It's a Tumblr debate and I just didn't see the original post? Is it an debate imported from another website? I don't know. But other than Apollo and Paris killing Achilles, I don't really see what relevant connection these characters have to each other. They also don't even have the same role or the same archetypes, which once again leaves me wondering why this comparison even exists in the first place.
But here we go: my opinion is that no one is a saint. In most of these X vs Y discussions, I'm simply going to consider both characters as not being people who would be considered good today. And it's the same case here.
Achilles killed Tenes despite being warned not to do so (he was warned by Thetis, so he certainly knew she was serious), sacked cities (including not all of them were Trojans), enslaved people (both men and women. Some were sold, others remained. Some were sexual slaves, like Briseis and Diomede), committed a murder inside a temple (Troilus), dishonored a body (Hector), practiced human sacrifice (Patroclus' funeral. And you can see from the narration that it's not a case of "ah, but human sacrifice was cultural and accepted") and stopped the winds just to demand Polyxena's sacrifice (I still wonder how the hell he stopped the wind). He isn't a saint.
Paris ignored Oenone's prophecies about the fall of Troy and abandoned her (she was his first wife. And unlike Cassandra, she wasn't cursed. He didn't listen because he didn't want to), stole Menelaus (I'm not even talking about Helen. He took Menelaus' treasure too. Honestly, at that point Paris knew he was bringing war to Troy and didn't care if he felt so comfortable that he even took the treasure), depending on the version kidnapped Helen, taken city (Sidon), killed a guy because he was jealous of him with Helen (Corythus. Who is his son, by the way) and he ignored the Trojans' requests and continued the war. He was a prince, so I guarantee you he had slaves too, and slaves are indeed mentioned in Trojan territory (e.g. Lycophron writes from the point of view of a slave watching over Cassandra). He isn't a saint.
Yeah, Achilles isn't just a cute guy in love and suffering for his boyfriend, but Paris is also not just a cute and harmless little thing. People paint Paris too much as harmless useless. So my honest opinion is that this discussion is a waste of time because neither of them is the pinnacle of morality. It's reminding me of the Achilles vs Odysseus debates, which were equally pointless because Odysseus, like Achilles and Paris, is also not an immaculate crystal. The Clytemnestra vs. Agamemnon debates were also another pointless thing because sometimes they even cited something they both did but only against one (e.g., Clytemnestra ridiculing Cassandra's status as a Trojan captive in "Agamemnon" and Agamemnon doing the same to Hesione via Teucer in "Ajax"). At this point, I think it would be interesting to read Greek mythology without trying to do morality rankings. I also already talked about this in this post.
So that's it, that's my opinion. I haven't ignored any asks I've received so far, but if I receive one more ask about fans and haters of characters and morality in Greek mythology I'll probably ignore it because I think my opinion is already pretty clear (It's even in my post about my blog). I also talked about this in the Hades Odysseus controversy.
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cartoonrival · 22 days ago
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Wow that was quick and quiet. How was it. Were there any parts you liked. Any you didn’t. How do you feel about every character from su hating you
ok. so for anyone who doesn't know , the premise of kist is that yoon bum, who is sort of a loner pervert stalker freak, is obsessed w this guy he met once in the military (oh sangwoo) so he breaks into sangwoo's house because he's in love with him. but when he does this he finds a woman tied up in sangwoo's basement and sangwoo shows up and clonks him on the head then breaks his ankles so he can't leave. the story simultaneously follows sangwoo and bum's relationship as it morphs from a pretty basic kidnapper-kidnappee dynamic into something that would be love if it wasn't so much not that, and also a cop (yang seungbae) who is trying to catch a sangwoo but he's sort of disgraced so no one believes him. + porn is there also.
most of it was like ok..... i'm by no means unfamiliar with stories that are fucked up in a way that doesn't mean anything its just Did you see that shit? anyways im rod sterling. like considering i forked over the cash to watch terrifier 3 in theaters i am not the guy who thinks horrible plotlines need to justify themselves. so for the vast majority of the story it was just like .... it was vaguely interesting watching sangwoo and bum's relationship develop as sangwoo became less concerned that bum would try and run away and started to treat him less like a hostage and more like a lover (who is also a hostage). didn't care for the sex scenes because no part of me was reading the story for sexual reasons i was reading it to watch something fucked up happen. so bum's waifish appearance and behaviors were really starting to piss me off. but we persist.
as i mentioned in my halfway post, i DID find seungbae's perspective somewhat interesting because it let me view sangwoo from a perspective other than bum's terrified but smitten one. which i think those povs work best in tandem. the story would be boring if it was just one or the other.
a little background first for the insane twist that made me start posting for realsies: sangwoo's father was abusive, and he drove his mother into madness. his father died of poisoning by pills cooked into his food, it's unspecified whether sangwoo or his mother was responsible for this directly but even if it wasn't by his own hands sangwoo feels responsible. in the absence of his father, sangwoo's mother starts referring to and treating sangwoo (who looks like his father) AS IF he WERE her husband. like she calls him babe not infrequently, stuff like that. this freaks him out. the fact that he looks like his father makes the irrational part of her hate him. he starts to suspect that she's been poisoning him, so he starts counting the pills so he can know if she's been putting them in his food. he learns that she has. she ties him up and almost kills him in the basement, but he manages to overpower her and kill her before she can kill him.
Now. first relevant detail is that sangwoo has been living in his childhood home this whole time. this detail is known from the start. he vaguely references not wanting to be abusive in the way his father was throughout the story, but you aren't fully told what exactly led to the deaths of his parents until later. the point when you DO learn is after sangwoo and bum have gone on a series of outings together, with strange but seemingly innocuous details-- sangwoo buys them apples and seems strangely familiar with the stand theyre sold at, he has bum wear weirdly specific outfits (the main outfit being a striped shirt and long black skirt).
then, as backstory details about sangwoo are being revealed, you slowly realize that sangwoo has been REENACTING MOMENTS BETWEEN HIMSELF AND HIS MOTHER, WITH BUM AS THE STAND-IN FOR HIS MOTHER. HE HAS BEEN REENACTING THE MOST TRAUMATIC MOMENTS OF HIS CHILDHOOD. HE HAS BUM KILL THIS RANDOM GIRL AND TAKES HIM TO BURY HER IN THE SAME MOUNTAIN WHERE HIS MOTHER TOOK HIM TO BURY HIS FATHER. HE HAS BUM WEAR THE SAME OUTFIT HIS MOTHER WORE THAT DAY. there are more fucked up and uncomfortable instances of these parallels but i won't get into them because the specifics aren't necessary. the point is that bum is serving as a stand-in for sangwoo's mother, who mistook him for her husband and also tried to kill him. just a bizarre and insane revelation and the way it's revealed is honestly so effective. just repeated panels but this time it's his mother in the passenger seat type stuff. like WOAHHH OKAY.
and where it gets even crazier is that sangwoo starts becoming paranoid that bum is plotting to kill him like his mother was-- he starts counting the pills again and thinks bum has poisoned him when he accidentally spills them and miscounts. it's a bizarre role flip-- sangwoo is neurotic and terrified, and bum seems well adjusted in comparison. sangwoo steps on broken glass and CAN'T LEAVE THE HOUSE, putting HIM in the position that he'd put BUM in for the first portion of the story, the reason bum stayed long enough to get stockholmed to begin with. this break down and subsequent flipping of their roles is what made me sort of lose it. i genuinely enjoyed reading that portion, the reveal about sangwoo's mother and his breakdown afterwards.
the ending was honestly not much to write home about, lowkey dropped the ball a little. i think sangwoo and bum should've died in a double suicide situation. sangwoo did make bum promise that they would die together and that if sangwoo died bum would kill himself. sort of think they should've gone w that. but instead seungbae catches sangwoo and there's a freak incident and sangwoo ends up DYING in the hospital and bum is cleared of police suspicion in terms of being an accomplice rather than a victim. but then he goes sort of crazy about never being able to see sangwoo again (he already symbolically proposed to him but he wanted to give him a ring) and he goes crazy and then gets hit by a car and dies. lame! but it's fine.
tldr it was mostly mid and what you'd expect except for that one part which sort of knocked my socks off a little bit. but then it went back to being mid. i don't NOT get why it was popular and to be completely honest dressing up as sangwoo and bum would be like darkly funny if it wasn't for the fact that people see them as just like uwaa yaoi!!! instead of two really fucked up individuals who are like destined to die badly and stuff. i'm glad i read it but i don't recommend it. honestly having read it the "every character from steven universe will hate you" thing is even funnier like this isn't basic shitty toxic yaoi this is psychological horror. why do the characters in steven universe have an opinion on that. too funny.
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wolfiesmoon · 9 months ago
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About the languages in TWST
Since i'm a bit of a language nerd, i like to think about the languages in TWST and who would speak which one in my spare time instead of being normal. I didn't do a whole bunch of research for this one and am mostly pulling things out of my brain so by all means let me know if I made a mistake anywhere or missed something.
(This is why you'll get a rare theory post from me about this instead of my usual fics 🤭)
It's shown that some real languages exist in TWST canon like french (spoken by Rook) and by the fact that Yuu can communicate with the characters just fine even tho they're in a different world, implying the language they speak is known to us.
Which brings me to my first point, the language everyone collectively speaks in NRC (and other big gatherings of mixed cultures) is english. Much like the real world, english is considered the "universal language" in TWST and is the one most people learn as their second language in schools. The game is in japanese so the japanese players can understand it, obviously, but they do imply that a japan-esque country exists through the new years events so I would say they speak japanese exclusively there and english in general.
And yes, this does mean I think some characters have accents when speaking english.
There's also other languages that are implied by the fact that Ruggie learned 10 languages just to negotiate with people in them, though it isn't known if they're real languages or fictional ones. Point is, there's at least ten.
Now, to the fun part. I based a lot of my HCS on existing Disney movie native language videos and theories but some are just my own personal thoughts hehe
Riddle, Trey, Chenya and Ace all speak british english. This one's pretty simple, Alice in wonderland takes place in England so that makes the choice obvious.
Cater is from the Shaftlands and his family did move around a lot when he was a kid so giving him an exact language is sorta hard because the Shaftlands are so varied in culture (and language too, by that logic). But for simplicity I'll just say he knows some other european languages aside from English. For this same reason I don't really think he has an accent.
Leona's mother tongue is Zulu since the Lion King was dubbed in Zulu, making it the first african language to get a full-feature dub made for it (aside from egyptian arabic). That wasn't exactly relevant but I just wanted to mention it. But since he's a prince and has access to a lot of education from an early age, he learned other languages as a child including English, which is why he doesn't have an accent.
Ruggie also speaks Zulu, but considering the thing I mentioned earlier, I think he also speaks other african languages like Xhosa or Swahili or Fulani as well as some non-african languages to some degree. I do think he speaks English with an accent, since he speaks differently to the other characters even in the japanese dub. (I know it was most likely done to make him sound more hyena-like i guess but let me have my moment!!)
Jack speaks German since he comes from the same neighborhood as Vil (I'll elaborate more in Vil's part). I do like to think he has a slight accent though hehe.
For Jade, Floyd and Azul I had a bit of trouble deciding on what language to assign them (by that I mean I'm still undecided), but maybe I would assign them a more northern language since they come from a northern part of the coral sea??? then again languages on the surface might not have a bearing on languages in the sea, especially since humans and merfolk couldn't interact well throughout history...
Kalim and Jamil are both obvious, they speak Arabic. Not much to say here haha.
Vil speaks German since Snow White takes place in Germany AND his surname is German. He doesn't have much of an accent if any at all because he learned english early on to be able to film movies in english for a wider global appeal.
Now for Epel I could really have fun. I know saying this kinda retcons the fact that his dialect is in the same language as the one everyone speaks (so English), but I believe he speaks in Plattdeutsch or Low German which can be quite difficult to understand when spoken in it's true form. He could speak a totally different dialect of a different language but I went w German because of continuity and also I feel like it'd make for a funnier dynamic with Vil. Defo has a bit of an accent.
Neige is a native french speaker simply going off his french name, though I do think he knows how to speak german as well (mostly because I want my "snow white takes place in germany" copium for Neige). I don't think it's been confirmed where Neige is from tho.
Now for Rook, since he was born in Sunset Savana, he also speaks Zulu as his first language. He's a mysterious fellow and all and could have learned french for a different motive, but I have a far more interesting HC. Since he's Neige's biggest fanboy, he learned french because Neige speaks it and he associates Neige with beauty. (and also haven't we all tried learning korean for our kpop bias at some point???)
Idia and Ortho are another obvious one, the language being Greek. Hercules takes place in Greece, obviously, and the Island of Woe still has some Greek architecture so I'd assume the language stayed too. Idia doesn't have much of an accent because being chronically online gives u exposure to so much english you don't retain an accent (assuming he's been on the internet since he was a little boy). Ortho? Maybe? Idia could have removed an accent on purpose when making a voicebox for Ortho or he could have kept it in for accuracy sake.
Malleus and the Diasomnia gang are another hard one to place. Sleeping Beauty takes place in France, but somehow saying they speak french feels wrong. I feel like they speak some fantasy language that doesn't exist. I would say give them the language where fae originate in folklore if I had to give them a real language but SOOOO many different folklores have them that it'd be hard to pick one.
Rollo speaks French, really obvious.
Let me know about your opinions and thoughts on this and help me figure out what to do with Octavinelle and Diasomnia since i am LOST on them 😭
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r0zzk1ll · 1 month ago
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Hello bendy fandom Really fucking long rant/analysis abt me defending wally franks batim in a nutshell (and kind of basically making an au??.?. idk probably). enjoy if u want or don't idc 🎷🐇
i know this is a really stupid thing to be mad about, but the fact that wally isnt buddy boris has stuck with me ever since dctl was released. i found out through a fucking superhorrorbro video of all things all the way back in like 2018 i'm pretty sure 😭😭 i was so disappointed when i found out bc like WHAT DO U MEAN THE JANITOR/HANDYMAN OF JOEY DREW STUDIOS, EHO WAS GENERALLY A TRICKSTER AND A CLUTZ AND LIKED TO PISS PEOPLE OFF, ISN'T THE PERFECT BORIS CLONE. BUDDY BORIS FITS/HAD POTENTIAL TO FIT MOST TO ALL OF THAT CRITERIA.
and don't grt me wrong, i (kind of) like buddy as a character, BUT i really just don't think he fits the role (from what i've seen/read). like he could've been a different boris clone as a little easter egg/nod to what happened to him and how he died but as like. an important role in the game?? even though the books aren't even fucking canon apparently now so his subplot doesn't even make sense anymore?????.????... ooh bitchh
ALSO the "he (wally) got outta there that's why/he has a wife and kids" IS A WEAK ASS FUCKING ARGUMENT. THIS IS NOT A SHITS AND GIGGLES PLOTLINE U CAN JUST THROW AWAY. how come thomas grts to be tom (which makes somewhat sense with him also being a handyman type of guy), but wally can't also partake in the Main Character-ified Borisification to help henry traverse the studio. why can't that just be so easy to do. there could've been so many cool extra plotpoints and nods to what could've happened to him but Noooo Noooooooooo they just HAD to make a whole new character JUST for wally to NOT BE BORIS. ESPECIALLY WHEN THE BOOKS ARE NON CANON NOW BECAUSE THAT MAKES TOTAL SENSE. (/sarc)
and don't FUCKING quote me on batds bc i know SOMEBODU will be like "b-b-b-bbut b-b-buddy's whole s-s-side plot with collecting the scraps in batds makes him c-c-c-canon!!! 🥺🥺🥺💖😭😭💔💔💔🎀🎀✨✨ ur just mad bc it's not what was assumed by the fandom!! ;-; úwù heh..." FIRST OF ALL, BUDDY ISNT EVEN MENTIONED IN ANY OF THE CANON GAMES (besides the secret message in the safehouse but i don't think that rlly counts imo), NOR DOES HE HAVE ANY RELEVANCE IN THE STORY WHATSOEVER, WHICH MEANS HE IS STRICTLY BOOK-CANON. SECOND OF ALL, BATDS WAS KNOWN AS A SIDE/EXTRA GAME AT THE TIME OF IT'S RELEASE AND WASN'T EVEN CONFIRMED TO BE APART OF BATIM OR ANY OTHER PART OF THE FRANCHISE (ASIDE FROM A SIDE GAME TO PLAY WHILE BATDR WAS IN PRODUCTION) UNTIL BATDR WAS RELEASED AND CONFIRMED BATDS IS HAPPENING DURING IT (WHICH DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE EITHER)!!!
I DON'T CARE WHAT KIND OF OPINION COULD CHANGE MY MIND. WE GOT A PERFECTLY GOOD AND WELL-DEVELOPED CHARACTER (AND A [PERSONAL] FAN FAVORITE) AT THAT POINT FOR WHO BORIS COULD'VE BEEN, AND IT GOT TAKEN FOR SOME STUPID SEEMINGLY HALF-ASSED SUBPLOT THAT'S ONLY HALF-CANON NOW BECAUSE MIKE FUCKING D IS A GOD DAMN MORON IDIOT BASTARD ASS BITCH OHHH MY GOD IT MAKES ME SO ANGRY I'M GONNA PULL OUT ALL MY HAUR
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sorry. almost lost my cool there guys.. ☝️😎 (/J)
soo with all that said, PERSONALLY this is what i think they should've done with buddy instead (under the cut so this post isn't 600 pages long)
first of all; scrap buddy's origin story completely and just make dtcl about the fact that he was simply another victim of the machine instead of making him such a major character (ex. a boris clone that was almost perfect but didn't quite make it like i said earlier)
on top of that, dctl could've just been insight on a single worker's process through working at the studio to being one of many victims of the machine, instead of turning him into such a titular important gary stu ass character with an in-depth backstory and Joey Drew Favoritism™ apparently that CLEARLY didn't need it + shouldn't be an mc if he's only in the books + the books aren't canon and the games are. so then it doesn't make it make any sense if he has such an important role and he isn't even fucking canon anyway and etc.
if he would've just stayed a minor inconvenient mc in a non-canon book it wouldn't have been detrimental to the lore as Mr. D Likes To Exaggerate (to me) + the books just seem like a fun one-off exclusive to the game series anyway, so it starts to kind of make sense why they aren't canon and leaves a lot of mysteries up to interpretation which is something i DO appreciate (to a CERTAIN extent)
here's what i think could've been done if wally was actually buddy boris and faced The Horrors™ like a normal main character should. an au, if you will (AND bc im VERY bias abt wally since He was my first ever og blorbo the first time i heard his audio log i literally owe him my Life💜💜💜💜)
wally could've started dropping hints in his audio logs that something funny was happening in the studio (specifically to him)/he could've been the last major victim to be sacrificed to the machine and therefore being one of the reasons of having the role of "the perfect boris" as malice said
-he also seems like the type of person to give into manipulation fairly easily, not knowing how truly bad something is before he gets involved yk
-a bit of a stretch BUT could also be a nod to susie's initial likeness towards wally pre-canon and vice versa (sourced from the special audio log wally has on the jds yt channel)
-him being the perfect boris also could allude to his personality/attributes and the way he talked abt the studio
and you can't forget the audio log of him and thomas bickering like COME ONNNN THERE COULD'VE BEEN A WHOOOLE SUB-SUBPLOT WHERE TOM AND BUDDY BORIS RECOGNIZE EACH OTHER SOMEHOW AT SOME POINT BUT THEY DON'T KNOW HOW
-TOM COULD'VE RECOGNIZED HIM EVEN AS BRUTE BORIS AFTER HENRY KILLS HIM and allison too but TOMMMMMMM😭😭😭😭😭CAN ANYONE HEAR MEEEEE
extra hints in the game like certain phrases and mannerisms of his (ink/glowing ink writings like his "i'm outta here!" written in certain locations or like. boris being clumsier as he walks/carrying around keys/scavenging for food [kind of like in the start of chapter 3], etc.)
-i also think that the connection that buddy boris (and just boris in general) has with food can connect with wally as well bc of the audio log where he's like "Omg 💖 Cake 💖just for me! Don't Tell Anyone Though. Our little secret. 😝" or the bit in the handbook where he finds some "churros" i Guess
there's also a LOT of potential for there to be a whole OTHER subplot where sammy could have found him one day and hadn't recognized him bc All The Boris Clones Look The Same, but buddy boris recognized sammy and there could be a whole conversation with henry and sammy abt him and dropping hints at it and blahblahblah etc etc.
-sammy probably could've mentioned him* at some point too even if he hadn't seen buddy boris as like a "hey.. i knew that fuckass guy.. wtf" (*and i know he mentions wally in the hot topic takeover thing on twitter from a while ago but i mean like in the actual game)
i think that the fact of boris being a Non-Verbal King™ would also be a funny contrast to how many god damn audio logs wally has. like Shut yuor mouth fucker /REF
the bit in chapter 3 where boris knows every nook and cranny of the studio and how to navigate the vent system could also lead to wally's nature of having a lot of knowledge of the layout to the building (due to being a janitor/running errands for people, similar to buddy) + he mentions staying in late to freshen up some offices so he might've explored more using that time as well because his personality shows he's a bit of a nosy guy
ALSO a stretch, but wally's first audio log in chapter one being fairly close to the first boris corpse displayed could've been a good foreshadow to his revival as buddy boris (and where the theory originated i'm pretty sure once ch2 came out)
the saferoom at the start of chapter 3 could've also been a great place to reference him (they could've put his hat from bendy royale in the shelf next to/on the hammock Can anyone hear me)
i also think that wally is supposed to be painted as an older guy?? so he probably already would've moved on from the studio due to leaving and starting his own business and having a family I Guess?????? idk but to me i think he'd be more of the college drop-out that thinks he's hot shit type of guy when in reality he doesn't know what a 2 + 2 is (ex. the audio log in batds where he's like "i was the best Student! Brickmore High! [tiktok bold emoji] These college bozos don't be knowin' shit!!"
-younger people are easier to manipulate like i talked abt earlier (especially someone like him that doesn't think before he Does Anything . boy has no thoughts)
wally also most likely would've known who henry was/was friendly with him while working there too at some point while henry was still at the studio pre-canon, so he probably recognized him throughout the cycle
i could ramble forever abt this bc it's such a strangely frustrating topic for me BUT in conclusion; i personally tbink that it would've been perfectly logical for wally to have been buddy boris (probably called somethig else), and buddy should've been a completely seperate character that would've done just as well on his own in the book instead of having a whole ass overarching plot for no reason?? and the "canonicity" of it is weirdly up for debate??? idk Watever thank you for coming to my tedtalk 😇😇Bye
⭐ !! bonus wally doodle dump since u made it this far !! seriously why r u Here ⭐
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navree · 6 months ago
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I saw your post from a while ago were you rewrote hotd using the vague outline of the show can i ask what your ideal hotd season 1 would be like keeping the same episode count but ignoring everything else???
So, I'm gonna assume that by HOTD you do still mean the vaguest "it's about the Dance of Dragons" plot because honestly my ideal HOTD show would have been a Conquest show because those are my babies and I have a LOT of thoughts and it's a crying shame that HBO did not hire me for it (which I can get into in how I'd make that show if you want, lol). But, assuming we're doing the Dance, then I'll explain how season 1 would go from my perspective.
(also apologies, I just got back from a sushi restaurant with my mother and I'm two cocktails deep so there may be some grammatical errors)
Episode One - I'll just link back to what I wrote in this response, because that's still the same. I actually really like the bones of the show, especially changing the Rhaenicent relationship to make it what it is, I think that is more interesting for a longform narrative like a TV show. But basically, the pilot is entirely the same except for the fact that 1) Daemon and Mysaria get an introduction that's just them observing one of Mysaria's customers behind a curtain, being voyeuristic and conniving but not engaging themselves and 2) there is no prophecy. Verbatim from my first response: "I'm not against the idea that Aegon might have had ulterior motives beyond simple Conquest, and we know that Targaryens are capable of having prophetic abilities, but no this should not have been a secret passed down through generations for some fucking reason because that's stupid. And most importantly, considering that HOTD needed to succeed in spite of Game of Thrones, not because of it, because of how awful the last season was and how immediately it faded from the public consciousness and stopped being relevant as a result, the show should honestly not be so frequently be calling back to a disappointing aspect of the show. "A Targaryen must be seated on the Iron Throne" ok but she wasn't and the Long Night ended because some rando had a good ten yard jump according to D&D cuz they wanted to "subvert expectations" stop reminding me of that if I want to be enjoying this new show." Not to mention that it doesn't make sense because the succession was shot to Hell almost immediately for the Targaryens, Aenys likely would have passed that secret down to Aegon the Uncrowned, who died before he could tell anyone anything, Jaehaerys was an unlikely heir, he didn't know about any prophecy, God this was dumb. Also, again, Rhaenys would get her own introduction, I imagine maybe visiting her cousin Aemma as she nears labor when Viserys comes in, ranting about something that happened at the Small Council, where Rhaenys gets an opportunity to show better political acumen and make it clear that Viserys was the wrong choice for the crown.
Episode Two - This is the first episode where we hear Otto talk to Alicent about going to the king for comfort, that would be nixed from the first episode. As with the show, we see that Alicent is deeply uncomfortable with this, and there's gonna be a lot more emphasis on Viserys's own manipulation and how it parallels modern ways men groom young girls, talking about not telling anyone cuz they wouldn't understand, pointing out Alicent's maturity especially when compared to Rhaenyra (who is her age), etc. Meanwhile, the plot on Dragonstone is one that Daemon and Mysaria hatch together, albeit for different reasons (Daemon to get Viserys's attention, Mysaria because she can see that tensions might be starting to boil over and wants to protect herself as best she can). The pregnancy is a fake, but the only one who really starts to think that is the Velaryons, particularly Rhaenys. She would get a scene at Driftmark with Corlys, to showcase again that she's really in touch with politics, where she believes that this is both a ploy to shore up power and get Viserys's attention, while both Corlys and her children listen in (this will be important later). Rhaenyra, meanwhile, is clearly struggling with her role as heir, and we'd get scenes showcasing that no one really takes her seriously and even Viserys still just sees her as a cupbearer rather than an heir. The only person, ironically, who really seems to want to help her and who she leans on for support in learning how to do things, like appointing Kingsguard knights (which happens same as the show), is Otto. She really leans on Otto, as not just the Hand of the King but her friend's father, who she believes has her best interests at heart. The episode still ends the same though, with Viserys announcing in Council, in front of Rhaenyra (though he's never consulted her this time) that he will marry Alicent, to her shock and horror.
Episode Three - Not to be self-indulgent, but the bulk of this episode is going to be like my fic Spring's End, because I was correct in everything I wrote here so go read that also because I wrote it in like two days and it somehow turned out semi-coherent. That's the main crux of the episode, focusing on Alicent's reaction and really hammering home things like Viserys's inappropriate behavior, Otto's love in conflict with his ambition, and the tension between her increasingly important but isolated status at court, as well as starting the sort of Lancelot and Guinevere relationship she will have with Criston. Meanwhile, Rhaenyra is spiraling, hard, about the fact that her father is marrying her friend and still not taking her seriously, along with feeling like she was duped by Otto in that he allowed her to depend on him while seemingly scheming to get someone else on the throne in her place. And it's in this mindset that Rhaenyra decides to go to Dragonstone to confront Daemon herself, without any backup. The two have a heated verbal confrontation about Daemon's antics, and Viserys naming Rhaenyra heir, and even the fact that it doesn't matter, because he's marrying Alicent Hightower, and Rhaenyra has a moment where she tells him that Alicent will likely have sons, and Daemon will never be heir. This clearly cuts to Daemon, and he just decides to give up the dragon eggs and turns away. Rhaenyra has scored a victory, and she feels triumphant, but also hollow (foreshadowing). Daemon meanwhile decides to send Mysaria away, and it's left debatable how much is just because his plan failed and also because he does feel he's put her in danger for nothing, and decides to go to Driftmark. Back at King's Landing, Viserys learns of what Rhaenyra has done during dinner, and summons her to lambast her about it, before Alicent cuts in and points out that Rhaenyra diffusing the situation, while careless, did avoid a conflict that could hurt innocent civilians (this would precipitate the semi-reconciliation that shows up later). Viserys here is clearly torn between a sort of pride in his daughter, but also feeling that she behaved badly, and Rhaenyra is still angry at him but wants his approval. On Driftmark, Daemon and Corlys disparage Viserys and make plans to at least go deal with the Triarchy, which, while not hyped up nearly as much in the show, has at least been mentioned. Daemon also has a moment with Laena Velaryon, who here is the same age as Alicent and Rhaenyra. They notice Vhagar in the distance, talk about dragons and freedom, and Laena makes plain that she intends to claim a dragon for herself, as her mother's daughter, even dropping names like the Cannibal, which certainly piques Daemon's interest. The wedding between Viserys and Alicent goes off, though we are getting that deleted scene where Rhaenyra helps Alicent get ready, because I really wish we could have seen that or at least been told it happened before I wrote Spring's End.
Episode Four - Queen Alicent is pregnant, near term, and the court is alight with speculation as to whether it will be a princess or a prince. Rhaenyra is unsure of how to feel about it, and is trying to navigate the friendship, uncertain though it is, with the fact that Alicent is now the queen. She's gotten closer to Criston Cole, who seems to be primarily on bodyguard duty for the queen or the princess depending on the day, as well as Laena Velaryon, who is at court with her mother, who has informally taken Corlys's place on the Small Council now that he's in the Stepstones with Daemon; this is another way to show that Rhaenys is better at this than Viserys, and there are even moments where the Council is more in agreement with her than him. Meanwhile, the Stepstones aren't gonna be touched on much beyond maybe the final battle and some occasional references, except to show Daemon's military prowess and also Corlys's brilliance in strategy, as well as Corlys's frequent correspondences with Rhaenys, to highlight their cohesion. Meanwhile, in King's Landing, the Strongs have also arrived at the capital. Rhaenyra sees Harwin doing, idk, horse stuff or something medieval and masculine, and is quite taken with him, and they strike up some conversations. Larys, with his disability, finds himself interacting with the ladies of court most, especially Alicent, and the two form a sort of friendship surrounding engaging each other's minds, and they both enjoy that they're the only ones who seem to treat the other as an actual person, rather than the pregnant wife or the disabled second son. Rhaenyra's frank and open conversations with Harwin, on the other hand, embolden her, and we get that scene where she seduces Criston, and there's a lot more play with the fact that Criston is interested and does want it, but is held back by vows before giving in to desire (also, we're just going to put a lot more emphasis on Criston's religious convictions in this version of the show, especially during his convocation in episode two when he joins the Kingsguard). Towards the end of the episode, Alicent goes into labor. Viserys and Rhaenyra share a bonding moment about their worries for Alicent's safety and the reminders of Aemma and what happened to her, and for a moment it looks as though Viserys is goign to tell Rhaenyra what he did to her mother. Rhaenyra also gets a moment where she holds Alicent's hand during labor, and we see her simultaneous love for Alicent in that as well as her clear discomfort with the concept of this being her own fate. And then Alicent delivers a son, a direct challenge to Rhaenyra's claim.
Episode Five - A big thing that's going to happen in this episode is that this is where Laena claims Vhagar. She's at Driftmark for it (foreshadowing) and, given that we've seen her in episodes three and four, it becomes clear that Vhagar is following Laena specifically. So we get to see the claiming, and Laena's own power in that. That's something that, as Daemon returns to Driftmark with Corlys, he's going to learn about, and he's going to be very intrigued by that, and taken with Laena. Another thing we're going to see is Corlys's negotiations with allies he made in Essos during his time away, arranging a betrothal between Laena and the son of the Sealord of Braavos. Rhaenyra's plotline, on the other hand, is going to be about her asserting her own power, especially now that her father has a trueborn son named Aegon Targaryen, which is a direct threat. She has a moment with her father where she directly tells him that, as his heir, she's not just going to be his cupbearer, but deserves a seat at his Small Council. He acquiesces, and Rhaenyra butts heads with Otto a lot, and pushes hard for Harwin Strong to be made captain of the Gold Cloaks, and succeeds. This is coincides with Otto hearing rumors that Rhaenyra has been behaving inappropriately with men, especially Harwin and Criston Cole. He discusses these with Alicent, who refuses to believe that of both Criston and Rhaenyra, given that Criston is spending more time with her as her bodyguard as he struggles with his "sin". She does have that scene in the godswood with Rhaenyra, but instead of issues with Daemon, it's just saying that there are rumors spreading about her behavior and that Rhaenyra must have care with her reputation. Rhaenyra figures out it's Otto who's informing Alicent, and the mood here is complex; Alicent does want to look out for Rhaenyra but also wants to ascertain the truth, and Rhaenyra both sees and feels emotional about Alicent's care but also isn't sure if she can trust Alicent. Rhaenyra keeps that moment where she swears on the memory of her mother that nothing untoward happened, but this time it's an out and out lie, to showcase the way she handles issues that might harm her and her position, lie and deny (foreshadowing). There's also gonna be a scene, before the godswood, where Rhaenyra and Alicent talk about motherhood, and we see more of Rhaenyra's complex feelings on the topic, and she does admit she was worried Alicent would die in childbirth like Aemma.
Episode Six - It's Aegon's name day, and we can clearly see that Alicent is pregnant again, not as far along as she is in the show during episode three but at least starting to have a bump. And it's here that Daemon decides to make his return to court, and dramatically offer Viserys his crown and say that any title about the Narrow Sea means nothing to him, because Viserys is his true king. I'd add a lot more scenes of Viserys and Daemon in this episode, because remember, we haven't seen them interact since the first episode, and also to really highlight how there is a genuine affection here, especially on Daemon's part. Daemon and Rhaenyra also reconnect, and have a lot of conversations in the vein we see in the original episode 4, talking about how they can do whatever they want because they're Targaryens. It's heavily flirtatious, and we do get that scene of Daemon taking Rhaenyra into the city. Here, there is more an emphasis on Daemon really just wanting Rhaenyra to enjoy herself, since we'd have another scene between him and Laena at court, though more stilted because her intended, the son of the Sealord, is here too. But after that scene where the commons show more enthusiasm for baby Aegon than her, Rhaenyra and Daemon return, and Rhaenyra has a blunt moment about her struggles to be taken seriously. It gets pretty hot and heavy, and it's not in a private room, but one of the corridors. And lo and behold, who hears about it, but Otto. And this time, he takes his issues to the king, who does summon Rhaenyra to discuss it. Rhaenyra turns it around on Viserys, accusing him of abandoning her now that he has a son, and mentions that Otto has been spreading rumors not just about her and Daemon, but her and Harwin and her and Criston, and that she feels that Otto is no friend to the crown if he's going to impugn her own honor this way. Viserys discusses these allegations with Alicent as she's taking care of him, in earshot of Criston, who is horrified about being found out. But we get that moment from the show, where Alicent goes to bat for Rhaenyra, and points out that maybe Daemon was spreading some rumors himself. An emotionally exhausted Rhaenyra also gets a scene with Rhaenys, and they discuss the concept of being allowed to inherit, of inhabiting a man's position even though they are not men and cannot act like it, and the nature of Targaryens vs other Westerosi. Also there's a scene this ep in reference to a deleted scene from the original show where Rhaenyra is playing with toddler Aegon and getting him to say her name, a sweet moment between a brother and sister.
Episode Seven - Helaena has been born and is a few months old, and Rhaenyra and Otto are butting heads on the Small Council more and more, and as Daemon and Rhaenyra continue to spend time together, Otto continues to bring his concerns to the king. Eventually, Viserys fires Otto as the Hand, at Rhaenyra's insistence, and we do get that scene from the show between Otto and Alicent where he stresses that he doesn't think Rhaenyra could ever ascend, and that whole bit Rhys Ifans was talking about with how Otto wants to say "I love you and I'm scared for you" but doesn't know how. Alicent, feeling vexed that there are rumors about Daemon's behavior but nothing is happening, strongly urges Viserys to also send Daemon back to the Vale with Rhea Royce, saying that his habits endanger the Targaryens by engendering enmity in the smallfolk who feel that he's just allowed to act with impunity. Viserys also agrees to this, which Rhaenyra is not happy about, since it feels like Alicent removed an ally to her for no reason. Criston, meanwhile, we see continue to spiral about his tryst to Rhaenyra and the fallout of the lies involved, and goes to Alicent to ask if he can be in her service, and not have to spend time with Rhaenyra anymore. Alicent, who can see that he's upset about something, readily agrees, which drives a further wedge between her and Alicent. Rhaenyra turns to Laena Velaryon, who isn't particularly enthused about her betrothal to the son of the Sealord, and also to Harwin Strong just as a companion. After dinner with Laena and Rhaenys, Rhaenyra decides that she needs to take a husband to solidify her claim, especially with gossip at court that the king still summons the queen to his bedchamber in spite of having two children, which Rhaenyra does remain disgusted by. She goes to Viserys with the proposal that she tour the realm to find a suitable husband for the heir to the Iron Throne, and Viserys says nothing about her using that title, but agrees.
Episode Eight - Rhaenyra has been touring the Kingdoms, trying to find a husband, and it's not going well. She does go to the Vale, under the auspices of looking for a husband from that area, but mostly still to talk with Daemon. Laena also frequents the Vale, and the three of them tend to race their dragons, and Rhaenyra does notice that there's a simmering attraction between Laena and Daemon, which she calls Daemon out on, saying that, as Princess, she has no interest in playing second fiddle before she eventually departs the Vale. This leaves Daemon to confront what he does actually want out of a potential alliance with the Velaryons and the longstanding attraction with Laena (and maybe this leads him to killing Rhea? i'm conflicted on that one honestly but she does die in this episode, either accidentally like in the book or in a murkier version of what Daemon did in the show, maybe him just spooking her horse without bashing her head in with a rock). In King's Landing, Viserys grows increasingly infirm due to his various Iron Throne issues (yes I'm keeping that), and as such, Alicent has started accompanying him to Small Council meetings, which a lot of people are conflicted about. At first, we see her not doing much, but she eventually starts speaking out more and more. And at one point in the episode, Viserys is going to have an amputation, one that lays him up in bed for a bit, and Alicent still attends the Small Council in his place to speak for him. When someone points out that it is the Hand who speaks for the king, Alicent retorts that who knows the king better, and can thus speak for him best, than his own wife and, crucially (and the first time she ever flexes like this) the mother of his only son. At Driftmark, Rhaenys is back to ruling there, given that Corlys is back on the Small Council, and is definitely bitter about it. That's when Rhaenyra arrives, and offers a proposal: that she marry Laenor, and their first son be a Targaryen heir, while the others would stand to inherit Driftmark and other Velaryon properties as Velaryons. Rhaenys agrees to this, only writing a letter of the proposal to Corlys after she's done so to inform him that it's happening. Rhaenyra also gets more moments with Harwin in this episode, to build up to their relationship, and an important moment comes when she confides her issues with childbirth and childrearing after watching what it did to her mother.
Episode Nine - Rhaenyra arrives and is a bit weirded out to learn that Alicent is now on the Small Council too. The first meeting they have, where Rhaenyra discusses her marriage to Laenor, is a bit tense between them, and definitely awkward, but there's still an attempt at politeness. Rhaenyra has her talk with Laenor about different tastes, but she does also stress the importance that she does need an heir, so there will need to be duties performed on occasion to create one. Laena, meanwhile, is very not happy about Laenor's marriage and the bargain it includes, talking to her mother about how, if Rhaenyra can be the heir to the Iron Throne regardless of gender, then she, as Laenor's older sister, should be the one to inherit Driftmark and be the Lady of the Tides, and so should her own children. Rhaenys says that it's not going to happen, that Rhaenyra is only a solitary exception due to Targaryen nature, and Laena bluntly puts that it's a ridiculous thing to have it only be Rhaenyra, and that what would be the point of it at all if it didn't lead to larger change, otherwise the entire enterprise is doomed to failure (foreshadowing). Back in King's Landing, Criston Cole, whose arc this season has been about his religious convictions and how it feels to have betrayed those and seen the fallout, eventually cracks and confesses to Alicent, doing that whole "it's my sin but as a clement queen give me a quick death" moment. And Alicent is again betrayed at the fact that Rhaenyra lied, and the fallout from that lie for her and what that means about Rhaenyra. Rhaenyra, meanwhile, has a late night talk with Harwin about having to choose a husband when there wouldn't be an expectation of her to choose a wife if she were a man, and Harwin is genuinely sympathetic, leading to a spontaneous kiss. When the rehearsal dinner happens later, Rhaenyra is dressed in her house colors, dramatic Targaryen red and black, but Alicent arrives in a dazzling green dress, the colors of Oldtown at war. She gives a smile to Hightower relatives, yes, but the conversation about how she's grown into queenship is actually had with Tyland Lannister, who we'd have seen her interact with on occasion at the Small Council. Rhaenyra clocks Alicent's coolness towards her, and the two have a private moment when left alone on the dais while Viserys does, idk, something, and Alicent makes a cold callback to Rhaenyra swearing on Aemma's memory, letting her know that she knows of the lies and she's angry.
Episode Ten - It is the wedding day of Rhaenyra and Laenor, and everyone is here, the Velaryons and the son of the Sealord and all the Strongs and all the retinues of the Houses and even Otto is here as a guest, given that he is the father of the queen. Before a tourney to celebrate the impending nuptials, Rhaenyra and Harwin have a talk about their feelings, and Rhaenyra does stress that she wants him but it has to be discreet because of her position, but she does have an understanding with Laenor, and the two share another kiss. Meanwhile, Alicent, just to be petty, tells Viserys she feels that she's pregnant again, and that it's another boy, and Viserys, because he's a moron, actually announces this before the tourney. This is the tourney where, in the mélee, Criston Cole kills Laenor's lover Joffrey, to Laenor's shock and horror. Laenor and Rhaenyra are both immediately calling for consequences, but Alicent comes in for Criston, saying that it's an armed mélee and thus there's a natural acceptance of risk, which Joffrey knew, and Viserys lets the whole thing slide. This casts a pall over the wedding ceremony, and during the feast that night, Laenor is still dejected, which is why Rhaenyra goes to dance with others, like Harwin, and Daemon, who has been invited, and the two have another sexually charged moment. Daemon also dances with Laena, and bluntly asks her whether she wants to be married to the son of the Sealord, and she says no, and makes a comment about wanting Vhagar to eat him. The Sealord gets a bit uppity about someone else dancing with his bride to be, words are exchanged between him and Daemon, and it eventually breaks out into an actual fight. Alicent impulsively calls out for Rhaenyra, and Harwin does go to remove her, and Rhaenyra does have a moment where the first thing she does is check if Alicent herself is unharmed, showing that even with the worsening relationship that we've seen crack apart, there's still love there. Daemon eventually kills the son of the Sealord as Viserys, who again has been having those health problems all season like in the original show, passes out. This allows both Daemon and Criston Cole to sneak out unnoticed, and Criston, like in the show, is going to kill himself. Again, we've seen him kinda spiral all season, and after now killing someone too, not in combat but in a game, he feels at his lowest. And like in the show, Alicent stops him, though we do seem her kneel in the grass and take the knife from his hands. Alicent and Rhaenyra both then go to stay by Viserys, and we see them arrive at the same time before they sit on opposite sides of his bed. And here I will ape myself and my original answer again: "Episode ends with Daemon saddling Caraxes, ready to ride away before someone thinks "hey maybe we should imprison the guy who killed a foreign ally's leader", and then suddenly a great shadow blocks out the sun. Suddenly Vhagar lands in front of him, Laena atop her, and Daemon thinks, oh shit is she gonna try and fight me for killing her betrothed? He's still on the ground, and suddenly Laena climbs down from Vhagar to join him there. She doesn't say anything, but she smiles at him, and Daemon bends to kiss her hand." Meanwhile, at Viserys's sickbed, you have Rhaenyra, the Velaryons (minus Laena), and Harwin on one side, and Alicent, Larys, Otto, the Lannisters, Criston, and two attendants holding Aegon and Helaena on another. It's interspersed with a shot of Caraxes and Vhagar taking flight, almost dancing in the air, and their calls intermingle with baby Aegon beginning to cry. The dragons are dancing, the Targaryens are choosing side, and children are already weeping; th war may not have started yet, but it is already here. As Vhagar's wing eclipses the camera as she flies away, episode ends.
So this is uhhhhh not my best work as I'm making it up on the fly as I write this, but here ya go, HOTD season 1 if I were allowed to be showrunner. I'm not sure how coherent this all is, or if I got across all I wanted to. TL;DR here is that I would put a lot more focus on Alicent and Rhaenyra's relationship and its slow, gradual disintegration, as well as establishing the burgeoning sides that are going to be taken, along with adding more complexity to characters that were left by the wayside in the original show. But hope you liked it!
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dyketennant · 3 months ago
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Omg I just saw your post where you pitch to be go s3 show runner and you wrote a hypothetical s3 script?!? omg! Are you at all able to share it? Ik you mentioned that you co-wrote it with others, so I understand if you are unable to share it if you don't have permission, but would you be able to tell us some snippets of what's in it? That would be so awesome!
i've had multiple people ask me variations on the same question so i'm answering it in one post rather than responding to each individually!
yes, i'm allowed to share it — it wasn't a group project or anything, it was a solo project for a class where the professor (who later became my capstone advisor) gave us a lot of freedom to do what we wanted.
because this was for a class specifically on womens' relationship with power in media, the part of the script i wrote (plus what i did my research around for the actual class work part) was around anathema and how she grapples with her identity as both a witch and a descendant of agnes nutter. thus the way i framed the script originally was very "i promise this is relevant to the class and not just me trying to write about a hyperfixation" (it very much was)
if im going to share what i wrote i would want to go back and polish some parts of it, plus maybe add to it (depends on if people want to see it as-is or if they'd like me to write in what i imagined the end of the "episode" would be; didn't get the chance to finish it because it was finals season and also i was already making my professor read 20+ pages of script).
i would like to at some point! if you were following me last year, you may remember i posted about this project some while i was working on it, and people seemed interested in reading it then. so i'll keep y'all posted ig :)
(and ofc nanny is in it as well because i love her and in fact it's my favorite scene of the whole thing. so here's a snippet for you)
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