#agreste arc analysis

[generalluxun]

I'm glad someone tackled the 'you didn't have to write it this way' for CB/E argument already, but I want to add one more on that vein.

Writing it that way explicitly sets up a finalé where Adrien *is* there. Those two seeds: once to introduce an idea, a second time to reinforce the idea, are the exact setup for a proper narrative subversion (not the twist Nonsense luke Kagami is a senti)

Let me elaborate:

In each instance what is the key element of the moment of akumatization? Adrien is alone. We get the golf swing into the Eiffel tower in CB, then just plain isolation in Ephemeral (the escalation here reinforces the point)

Now you have all the room in between those episodes and the finale. You have CN supporting LB in strike back. You have CN saving Marinette from being akumatized, you have Adrien supporting Marinette through her relationship fears. All that growth.

It's the perfect setup for a Gabe reveal where the difference is: Marinette.

This is where you show how much they've grown. This is where you show yin and yang. This is where you show partners. This is where she supports *him* in the crisis and *together* they are stronger. *Together* they overcome the narrative crisis and the knight saves the princess not by slaying the dragon, but by giving her the strength to face the dragon that has held her(him) prisoner.

That

is how you write a satisfying narrative conclusion to the Agreste arc that *still* emphasizes Marinette and the difference she makes in people's lives.

And all the pieces were right there to use. It's obvious, it's perfectly thematic for ML. It doesn't take the spotlight off Marinette. It took me about five minutes before I even had my coffee to weave it together.

The only reason a whole writing team couldn't manage it is they didn't *want* to. They're still so desperately hidebound by their 'reverse fairy tale' gimmick that perfectly preserves the concept of binary unequal gender roles, thinking that simply flipping them is so *brilliantly* progressive.

20 yrs ago called and wants it's 'enlightenment' back.

'Omg it was so vile to keep Adrien away from the final fight against hawkmoth. Can't believe they did this'

YALL WHAT DO YOU THINK THE POINT OF CHAT BLANC AND EPHEMERAL WERE!?!?!?

Adrien cannot fight his father. He can't do it. Not only because he's a fucking sentimonster, bit because Gabriel can take advantage of him so easily when he reveals its all for his mother.

'But he fought his father in Representation' but he wasn't being faced between the prospect of betraying his only family or betraying the love of his life then. He was just an angry teenager who had been pulled from his home. No moral dilemma just anger.

Adrien is not emotionally intelligent enough to chose between his mother and Marinette.

If Adrien was there, they would have fucking lost. THAT was the point of Chat Blanc and Ephemeral.

[gameguy20100]

You know,I think it's interesting that the only character who had a "redemption arc" in the show was Nathalie of all people.

Gabriel was a selfish bastard right to the end. His last act was using Marinette’s guilt and love for Adrien to his advantage and making the wish he wanted. Sure, he's dead, but he didn't want to live without Emilie anyway.

Felix never actually made amends for everything he did. His goal was always to take down Gabriel. I guess it's true what they say, the enemy of my enemy is, well, maybe not a friend, but an ally.

Nathalie is the only person who turned against Gabriel when she saw what a monster he was. The only one who took a look at her actions and decided "No, this is wrong. I won't be a part of this any longer."

She could have done better, but I guess she wasn't thinking clearly enough for the logical way out. She was dying and living with her abuser after all. That doesn't make for a good environment for rational thinking.

So, yeah. The only one who really redeemed herself is the woman whose name literally means "heartless" funny world we live in, hu?

[kisilinramblings]

The list of ML S6 episodes title has appeared and it feels like it is the real deal.

I know others have written about it, but here is my analysis and speculations based on the episode title down below.

Enjoy!

601 - Climatiqueen Sounds like Stormy Weather got an upgrade (her french name is Climatika). Nice little nod to the pilot of the previous arc too.

602 - Dessinatriste A nod to "le Dessinateur" (Evillustrator)? With this time the adjective "triste" (sad) included in this new name. Although, it could be a girl character as the name does sound like the feminine form (Dessinatrice).

603 - Sublimation Sublimation is the superpower name of the Rooster, so the episode might be about Marc, but it could also be the name of the olympic themed Akumatized we can see in the S6 sneak peak that was going around. The audio said she is looking for people to be the better version of themselves. Sublime is a word to qualify high morals and esthetic qualities. Could also be a kid-friendly introduction to what Sublimation is in psychanalysis if it has any value left. Sublimation is about transforming impulses into more productive behaviors.

604 - Daddycop Most probably a nod to Rogercop. An episode about Sabrina's relation with her father perhaps? On a side note, the title reminds me of the Daddy Cool song.

605 - Papys Garous Papi (or Papy, both writting are accepted) is a casual and affectionate term for someone to talk about their grandfather. So Papa-Garou (Weredad) but also involving at least Marinette's grandfather. Because Papy is plural here. Does Tom consider himself to be an old man?

606 - Princesse Syren Ondine as Syren is getting an upgrade as well.

607 - El Toro de Piedra Sounds like Ivan will be involved in that one. After all, he has the Ox Miraculous and his akumatization was called Stoneheart. Although the Spanish is new. Perhaps the akumatized will be a relative of Ivan?

608 - Vampigami I think everyone's first thought was seeing Kagami as a Vampire. Is Kagami a fan of either Dracula or the Twilight series? Considering it is canon that she read romance mangas (Glaciator 2), I wouldn't be surprised for the latter. Still, we did have an episode before that did end with "gami" but wasn't about Kagami (Optigami which was a portmanteau of Optic and Origami).

609 - Monsieur Agreste This feels like a follow up to the Gabriel Agreste episode from S4. Is someone pretending to be Gabriel? Or could it be the Adrien's grandparents episode that was hinted by Gloob? Or is Argos involved?

610 - Le Château Noir I know the speculations are about that episode being around Chat Noir, but I am not sure it is a pun with Chat due to the word Château (Castle) keeping its accent. But you know which Medieval Akumatized we had before? Le Chevalier Noir (Dark Blade).

611 - Revelator Not much to go with there. We can expect the Akumatized is a guy and that there is a risk of revealing things. Although, we did have an episode called Revelation which featured Infox (Hoaxer), but I am not sure they could be related. Again, the title doesn't give much to work with.

612 - Psyconductrice A portmanteau of the words Psycho and Conductrice which could either be a female driver or a female conductor. However, ML Paris has turned a page on cars under Mayor Bustier, so it is probably more related to music or leading people.

613 - Yaksi Gozen Obviously, we think of Ikari Gozen and Matagi Gozen (Pretension). So Tomoe will be once again akumatized. I have looked for the name Yaksi and it looks like it is a sanskrit word. The wiki page I've found said they are similar to fairies or nymphs in the hindu culture. Although, I find the use of sanskrit special for Tomoe. As far as a remember, the only other sanskrit name we got was Mayura. So, could it be that either Nathalie or the Peacock Miraculous is involved in that episode as well?

614 - Couchorak Goldorak reference spotted! The other word in that name is Couche. Which actually have several meanings. It could notably be either a diaper, a layer or a bed.

615 - La Redresseuse As a francophone, all I am thinking about is "Dresseur Pokémon" (Pokémon Trainer) ^^; Anyway, something to do with training an animal or correcting bad behaviors. If Sublimation isn't the olympic themed akumatized, then this is my best second guess.

616 - Noe At first glance, all I am thinking about is a negative Zoé. Even though Noé (with an accent) is a boy's name (the French version of Noah). So maybe a new Bourgeois family member? Another possibility, since this is the French episode list is that Noe is a dimunitive for Noël, which is the French name of Nino's little brother.

617 - La Fée de Beaux Rêves Nice little pun there. The actual sentence is "Fais de beaux rêves" (Have Sweet Dreams) but with the word Fée instead of the verb. This seems to align with Pigella's power as well.

618 - Les Crassetastrophes Portmanteau of the words Crasse (filthy, dirty, scum) and Catastrophe (disaster). This one feels like it will be very smelly and disgusting. I wouldn't be surprised if this one is about pollution and if so, Polymouse will be involved.

619 - Riginarazione So, we got the words Rigid(?), Regina (either it is the Character name or the word Queen) combined with the word ration in Italian.

620 - Renverse-coeurs Reminds me of Dislocoeur which Dark Cupid's French name. So, we could theorized that Kim would be involved here.

621 - Les Titans Chaînes This one is giving me trouble. even in French because the name isn't a natural combination. It would be more normal to write it up as "Chaînes Titans" instead. "Chaînes" could be literally chains (in the sense of shackles) but in French, the word could also refers to a series of something. Like a mountain range, a production line or food chain, but also a channel (like a TV channel or Youtube channel). I do see the pun with the word "Enchaîne" in the title which either means to align or to shackle. Wasn't there an episode confirmed about influencers? This might be that one. Especially as Titans are not only huge figures, they even had a war in the greek mythology against the Olympian Gods (Titanomachy).

622 - Lady Chaos Honestly, your guess is as good as mine here. Because the ML verse counts a few Lady Something, like Lady Wifi or Lady Dragon, so this title doesn't mean it is about Ladybug directly, but it could be related to her as it is in opposition with what Ladybug does and represents.

623 - Tristanansi Nora is akumatized again and she will be sad this time around.

624 - La Reine de Frayeurville Spooky episode in perspective. Frayeur means Fright. So literally, the Queen of Frightville.

625 - Protocole Secret Feels more like a code name to a project than an akumatized name. My money this is Tomoe's plan.

626 - Nemesis Nothing to add besides that it sounds promising. I wonder what our new Butterfly Holder has in store in that one.

[unlocked-doors-verse]

Origins: Character Headcanons + Lore Thoughts

Good timezone!

So, here's some added development to the AU! Of course, Mystery Kids is still happening but again, I have a lot of prompts to get through

For starters, the readers are not immediately introduced to all of the characters at once; this will be split in about 4-5 one-shots (certain characters will meet the others beforehand and then do a big meet toward the end- that is all i'm going to say for now). Part 1 is actively being worked on - ft. a cross between Danny Phantom and Miraculous Ladybug, but for now- I plan on focusing with character headcanons and some additional lore elements everyone can be privy too!

On one hand, we have Danny Phantom and Miraculous Ladybug where we have Danny Fenton, Adrien Agreste, and Marinette Dupain-Cheng - and their initial first meeting during Secret Origins

Danny Phantom / Miraculous Ladybug Headcanons

~ Out of the trio, Danny is the oldest; Adrien and Marinette are the youngest (there's a year of difference between them and Danny) [author's cut: I based this on when the respective shows came out. Danny Phantom aired in the early 2000's with Miraculous Ladybug getting released sometime in 2014/2015]

~ This isn't spoilers per se, but there's going to be a case of mistaken identity when Danny meets Adrien and Mari for the first time. The rest is spoilers, and I will leave you to try and figure it out! The only thing I'm going to say is that ghosts aren't a common thing in Paris-

~ This is set in an ambiguous timeline- the only thing I will say for certain is that Phantom Planet has yet to happen. A lot of the current canon for Miraculous Ladybug has been completely disregarded- partially because I never got past... I'd say season five? (and what I've heard about the newer seasons sounds like entering the Twilight Zone-)

~ Danny is auDHD because it just makes sense- (he has dual special interests on space and inventions; not to mention his ghostly obsession)

~ Adrien and Mari are definitely some breed of neurodivergent (autistic! Adrien, at least and I thought Mari is ADHD or something- this is canon now you can't tell me I'm wrong /lh)

~ Danny and his family end up in Paris, France during the summer due to reasons

~ so far, no identity reveals beyond the obvious have happened. For Danny, it only applies to Sam and Tucker; in Miraculous Ladybug, Mari isn't willing to share her identity with Adrien (this is done on purpose as this is still early into the character introductions)

~ this is no way a spoiler, but Adrien and Danny are so going to bond over puns and jokes- (and other reasons but shhh)

~ unresolved traumas? oh, absolutely- like on one hand, you have Danny who has definitely been going through the burner with protecting his own identity not from his enemies but his parents; Mari definitely has a savior complex and is so set on saving everyone, she barely puts herself first- and Adrien, my sweet summer child- how do I explain what this kid is going through when it comes to Gabriel fucking Agreste? (author's cut: Gabriel is not a good parent lol- I'm not doing a full meta-analysis on him but he doesn't really have Adrien's best interests at heart)

~ Adrien does try to see the best in everyone, but he is wearing down from certain things- i am not going to sugarcoat things, because this is going to a different level of mature and Adrien does try and cover how he feels

Lore Thoughts + Elements

~ As mentioned before, ghosts are not a common thing within Paris. Danny would be an outlier in the equation because this isn't something the citizens have seen before, and it might take some time for them to adjust further into the first arc of the SQ AU

~ If this somehow isn't obvious, Akuma attacks do not occur inside Amity Park (as for one thing, Hawk Moth has never once stepped foot inside the city and for another- ghosts and Kwamis do not mix, it's just not possible)

~ however, citizens from Amity Park can be Akumatized should they leave or if, say, somehow- they were brought into the city but for now, do what you will with this information. Good luck

~ (implied plot elements) "In the purple smoke lies what you hold most dear; to undo what has been done, break the cycle and rewind the masked's design". (author's cut: i'm sure you can figure this one out, but honestly there is so much more coming, so keep an eye out!)

~ Secret Origins Lore / Teen Heroes AU (the name is still subject to change): as mentioned before, there will be about 4-5 one-shots before the main story releases- this may have a little bit of major plot arcs so read at your own discretion - due to the overlapping themes within the four fandoms, there are multiple sectors throughout the world that are specifically for the current growing number of teen superheroes (author's cut: the Dragon Council, for instance- among others, take with this what you will. of course there's more to come)

~ since this is only the first in the Secret Origins background- character introductions are fairly limited; and honestly, I was going to use one of the specials to push forth the lore but ultimately, I scrapped that version (but I could rewrite the version of events that could have happened: especially since I had tied it back to the New York special-) though the alternate version aside, going back to the introductions- the point is for the sectors to slowly become part of... well, let's just say that certain alliances within this piece are going to be only one part of what's to come-

(Author's Cut: As of right now, this project continues to remain a Work in Progress and of course, I'm trying to limit myself with the spoilers- currently the early stages of the Miraculous Ladybug x Danny Phantom fanfic are being worked on, and I am considering writing a small snippet of it! Without spoilers, of course!

You’re going to see a lot more for this and the Unlocked Doors AU soon. These poor kids are definitely going to through it.)

~ Mod Danny

[fernsnouveau]

I agree about the well-intentioned abusers. If there are no real thought crimes, then there are no real thought virtues either. Many abusers think that they have some kind of an inherent superiority, divine right, to rule over their victim, and this means that what they're doing is righteous. If only the victim would Stay In Their Place and succumb to the abuser's will!

One of the main aspects of Gabriel's abuse of Adrien was also seeing Adrien not as his own person, but merely as an extension of Gabriel. Therefore, to Gabriel, Adrien's free will or internal self didn't matter, and merely existed as these... unfortunate little flaws in the system... something to smooth over, something that Adrien should be made to drop in order to match the natural order of things.

Gabriel loved his idea of Adrien so much that he saw the actual person Adrien only as an unfortunate, insignificant detour from the perfect form. Something that's okay to manipulate and diminish away. It's for Adrien's own good!

And... Marinette is now doing that exact same thing.

There really should be a word for that kind of behavior and the effect it has.It's not enabling (like Nathalie is) because it's not done with intention and knowledge, but it's somewhere close and I think its effects are actually close to being the same as gaslighting but it is done unintentionally.

It reminds me for example of my experience in 4th grade where I was being bullied but everyone insisted that He was a good boy, just a little naughty. It was mostly mean comments he made to me when no adults were around, but talking about the situation made the behavior diminish and deviant and made me feel like I was exaggerating. And a friend at university had a classmate who followed him everywhere and turned to look at him during classes, but when he tried to talk about it the response was to ignore him because it only made him feel uncomfortable but it wasn't really doing anything and this stalker was known as a "quiet boy".

LB, the heroine Adrien admires and loved, and Marinette, the girlfriend he trusts, both knowing that Gabriel was at least controlling (I don't think she knew the actual degree of abuse) decided to tell him that he was a hero. That is not meant to gaslitgh Adrien But certainly here he is forcing Gabriel's reputation (a good man) to compete against Adrien's personal experience (who only now seems to be understanding that what was happening was not normal and could be abuse) And from personal experience in these situations one tends to defer to the opinion of the majority because what is happening does not seem like a big deal and you are probably the one who is wrong.

Marinette may not be psychologically manipulating Adrien but there is no denying that her lie has a serious and damaging effect on his psyche with an effect similar to gaslight Because now Adrien has to believe that he was wrong in his conclusions and that in fact his perception of reality is wrong.

Yeah that's the tricky thing, Marinette is not intending to hurt Adrien, she's lying in an attempt to spare his feelings, in fact. But it still has the same effect as gaslighting, even though her intentions are better.

[yolowritter]

In Defense of Ladrien

Hello there everyone, and welcome to a shorter post this time. I'll be honest, I'm in a random Ladrien mood right now, so I figured I should go rewatch a few of the Season 2 episodes with it. As you do. Then I remembered...it doesn't exist. Not in canon anyway, and that's a real shame! Despite Adrien and Ladybug's mutual crushes on each other, we don't get anything except a couple times where they blush at each other and stammer through their sentences. Which okay, it's cute, but c'mon, there's so much potential here! So today I want to lay a bit of groundwork as to how Ladrien could have been improved in this show, and also (hopefully) open up a discussion about it, since I rarely see anyone bring it up in modern MLB. I guess we're all too busy with Sentimonster angst and questioning what's going on with Lila's three mothers. Still waiting to see how they'll try to write themselves out of this predicament... Anyway, today we're talking about the most underrated lovesquare ship, Ladrien!

First of all, it's worth mentioning that I won't be going over the show episode by episode. This is just a short post discussing the ship in general, not a 7.5k analysis like I did with Chloe, my keyboard still needs time to recover. So, I'm sure we all know the basics, but I'll give a simple overview of canon Ladrien just to have everyone on the same page! Ladybug (Marinette) has a crush on Adrien Agreste. Adrien (Chat Noir) has a crush on Ladybug. That's it. That's the ship. Nothing more to it!

Okay...well, things aren't so simple. Canon does give us a couple moments where this dynamic is toyed with, but they're few and far between, leading to a...less than adored ship in the fandom. Don't get me wrong, I love Ladrien! That's why I'm writing this after all, and surely there's others out there who ship it too! But when compared to Adrienette or Marichat...it falls flat on it's face due to the utter lack of content we have to work with. Thankfully, we at least have an established dynamic! And hey, with this show, even that's a bloody miracle!

However, I have seen a lot of people (in yee olden days) say they prefer other sides of the Square because Ladrien seems...a little dishonest. In their defense, it really wasn't hard to make the claim that Marinette's crush on Adrien was (by early S2) still quite superficial, considering they hadn't actually gotten to know eachother than well, and vice-versa for Adrien with Ladybug. I can see why, especially since these are the respective personas that are "least real". Adrien is forced to conform to his father's expectations and always be perfect, while Ladybug needs to be professional and has the city's safety to worry about, hence is unable to ever be genuinely "Marinette" while in the suit. Add to that all the identity shenanigans, and it's easy to see why this ship got pretty much dismissed by a large portion of fans back when it was still relevant. And given that Miraculous has since pivoted away from teen drama and more into the "crazy butterfly man wants to destroy the universe" territory, most ships except Adrienette (and Marichat in Elation) got left behind as the storyline progressed. Ladybug and Chat's relationship evoled, we had a whole arc where Adrien was depressed, etc. That's just the natural progression of storytelling. At some point, we have to move on with the plot.

Fortunately, I am here to present the opposite argument! Ladrien would actually be a very viable ship, especially because of this hero worship that afflicts both Marinette and Adrien! It makes for amazing and complicated interactions on both sides, and here's why! It's because Ladrien was misunderstood, or maybe even misrepresented by the show itself. In my humble opinion, it shouldn't (only) be about Adrien blushing the moment he sees his crush, or Ladybug stammering twenty times in a single sentence. That's all well and good, but look at that I said a moment ago. Ladrien, by the very nature of it's existence is dishonest. Neither Ladybug nor Adrien can be themselves with eachother, even if I have no doubt they would rush headfirst into some kind of secret romance if given the oppurtunity! But...that the point of this ship in my opinion. They both view each other as this perfect, can-do-no-wrong person and have placed one another on a pedestal higher than Lila's delusions! Ladrien is fundementally doomed to this flaw from the very start...but overcoming it is what's interesting!

Just...hear me out! Let's say that after Gorizilla (or some other Akuma with Adrien as a target), Ladybug goes to check on him post-battle to make sure he's okay. Maybe she visits him that night, and surprises him with her presence. They do their usual routine of blushing and stammering, and for one reason or the other, one of them confesses that they have a crush. Regardless of who it is, or how exactly this plays out, let's say for the sake of argument that they get together after another visit or two. Maybe Marinette thinks this is her chance and can't resist getting to know the boy she loves, maybe Adrien is the one to bring it up because Ladybug is his hero. The immediate first problem is that while they know eachother...they can't be honest with their partner. And this brings up an amazing character conflict!

For Marinette, it's possible she has doubts about herself and rationalizes that of course the Adrien Agreste would never see her, but be in love with Ladybug! There's a whole other can of worms here about Marinette's feelings in regards to her mask, but that's for another post. For Adrien, maybe he's a bit conflicted because Ladybug is in love with him...but not Chat Noir, who he considers to be the "real" him. And the more they interact, the more both of them realize that the other is blindsighted by the mask they wear. There's genuine moments sprinkled in between, but feelings of inadequacy keep them from truly connecting. Think "the wall between us" metaphor. But...just when it seems like neither of them is really that happy, when they start feeling like a mistake, both Ladybug and Adrien get a glimpse of the person behind the mask. She realizes that he isn't some perfect, unreachable guy, and he in turn figures out that she's trying so hard to be good enough for him. This can happen in an infinite amount of ways, and I guarantee there's at least some Ladrien fanfics out there that do it! And I'm really glad, because it means someone else gets it!

After this we have a myriad of possibilities as to how things could go, but regardless, things absolutely change in their dynamic. They slowly start to getting to know the person behind the mask. Naturally, they both find themselves even more in love, then eventualy there's a reveal somewhere there, they get together officially, etc. You get the point, right? The reason why Ladrien is interesting is the dichotomy between Maribug and Adrichat's identities. It's the idolization that blinds them slowly fading away to reveal the truth, it's the feelings of insecurity that plague their relationship until everything finally comes to a head! If Ladynoir is parters in battle to lovers, Adrienette is high school sweethears, and Marichat is friends to secret midnight visits to lovers, then Ladrien is idols to friends to lovers! And I absolutely adore their dynamic!

Now, I'm obviously not the first person to bring this up, since I distinctly recall some great Ladrien fics from back in the day with pretty much this plot. And the reason why I adore them is that they play into the inherent dishonesty so well! I hope my point has come across, and if anybody wants to add their own analysis, by all means feel free! This post is supposed to open up a new discussion after all. Anyway, I have to go take a day off and go through my old Ladrien bookmarks! I'll see you all next time, but until then, Stay Miraculous everyone!

[fortuna-et-cataclysmos]

Fortuna's ML Analyses Master List

Look, I had to do something with my Humanities degree.

Ep. 26 Recreation:

A perfect world and a fake victory

Wrapping up the "running out of time" theme

In defense of s5 finale: the finale was supposed to feel wrong

Ep. 25 Conformation:

The ultimate fight location: the kitchen

Ep. 23 Revolution:

Adrinette love as act of revolt

Ep. 22 Collusion:

Ms. Sans-Culotte and the French Revolution symbolism

Collusion and the political victory of Gabriel/Monarch

Ep. 19 Pretension:

Season 5 and the symbolism of pancakes: Gabriel's illusions of choice

Two designers: Marinette vs. Gabriel

Ep. 18 Emotion:

On Felix, Revolution and Anarchism

Ep. 17 Adoration:

Marinette's healthy relationship message

Ep. 16 Protection:

Meta joke on ml fans

Marinette/Adrien and Gabriel/Emilie parallels (visual storytelling)

Hints that Kagami is a sentibeing too

Ep. 14 Derision:

3 beliefs Marinette acquired due to the prank and how it impacts her relationships

Accepting Chat Noir & Adrien parallels (short)

Adrien's pov on Marinette's anxiety (short)

Ep. 10 Transmission:

Duty vs. Love: how Ladybug and Chat Noir chose love over duty

Metaphor between disease and superpowers: the weight of responsibility

Adrien & Gabriel parallels (short)

Separation and reconciliation of civilian and superhero identities

Ep. 9 Elation:

the Marichat kiss image analysis (l don't have anything better to do)

Marinette and the impossibility to be in a relationship

Monuments' symbolism in season 5

End card: Chat understands that his love to Marinette is impossible (short)

Ep. 8 Reunion:

Post-truth in Miraculous

Ladybug // Joan of Arc parallels: heroes' antagonisation

Ep. 7 Passion:

Marinette and control vis-à-vis Adrien and Chat Noir

Ladybug/Chat Noir roles reversal (short)

Nathalie's discourse analysis and how it reflects her relationship with the Agrestes

Ep. 6 Determination:

Determination in the light of Derision: why Marinette falls both for Adrien and Chat Noir

Marinette crying at the end of episode explained: the duality of Marinette and Ladybug

Adrien falling for Marinette at her worst, loving her as is

Marinette and self-acceptance

Contrast between Adrien and Marinette in understanding their love

Jubilation // Determination speech parallels

the love square is becoming a circle (short)

The symbolism of the museum Grévin? (overanalysis)

The symbolism of wax heroes? (overanalysis)

Ep. 5 Illusion:

Gabriel's emotional exploitation of Adrien

Nino's Resistance: a reference to French Résistance during WW2

Ep. 4 Jubilation:

The importance of rain in Jubilation

On Adrien/Chat Noir and control, aka why is Adrien depressed in Jubilation?

Easter egg in the episode

The power of Jubilation (short)

Reconciling the real Chat Noir and the one in Ladybug's dreams (short)

Ep.3 Destruction:

Parallels between Chat Noir and the Monarch's destructions

Chat Noir vs. the perfect Chat Noir Ladybug wants (short)

General s5:

Miraculous Ladybug is actually a Greek tragedy

Schrödinger's love square (short)

Gabriel and Adrien being each other's obstacle to be with their love (short)

My one and only salt about the scientific error in Ephemeral

I'm doing this list mostly for myself (it was starting to get hard to keep track of some points I previously made when I wanted to link).

I'll keep this updated, and if I have forgotten something (Tumblr's search function has disappointed me once more...) feel free to lmk :3

[agrestrospective]

The Agrestrospective

Welcome to Agrestrospective, the Miraculous Ladybug Agreste Arc Retrospective Blog. My plan is to rewatch the entire Agreste Arc (Seasons 1-5) from the beginning, episode by episode, and give my analysis and commentary, generally from a retrospective perspective. I have already watched every Miraculous Ladybug episode before, but most I have only watched once, and I haven’t watched the early episodes in a long time. It will be a fun refresher on a show I have such strong feelings about.

Here is a list of rules and guidelines that I will try to hold my blog to and expectations that I will try to hold myself to. I’ll probably add new ones as I go along.

[1] As of this blog’s creation, I’m not very familiar with Tumblr or how to use it. Bear with me as I learn. Any advice is welcome.

[2] I have a lot of mixed feelings about this show. I will try to balance my love, respect, hate, confusion, and disappointment.

[3] I will not be malicious or hateful at other real-life people, including you, other Miraculous Ladybug Fans, other Tumblr users, and the people that work on the show. If you come to my blog with that, don’t expect me to engage.

[4] I’ll likely not give a full answer to a question bound to a specific episode or season until the blog reaches that episode or season, but I will always save it and tell you that I’ll wait to answer it when I get there. I’ll more likely answer a question not bound to a specific part of the story right away. I’ll make these decisions on a case by case basis, so your best bet is to ask anyway.

[5] I don’t have a strict schedule for the rewatch. These posts come out when they come out.

[lunatic-fandom-space]

alright so, I have thoughts about the season 5 finale and theyre pretty much all negative. Also, even though Im done with the series I still have a lot of thoughts specifically about whether its a good kids show or not, but I'd have rewatch some kids shows I think are good to refresh my memory a little before I write a detailed analysis on it, so for now this will probably be my last mlb post in a while

A lot of people are really upset because Gabriel got redeemed through death and is presumably going to be remembered as a good person or atleast A Dad Who Tried and a lot of people who liked the finale are responding to that by being like "no, hes not been redeemed, the series constantly showed us how objectively awful of a father he was and how impossible it was to sympathize with him despite his seemingly noble intentions and now hes dead, he hasnt been redeemed and the show is not trying to get us to sympathize with him in any way" and no. I think thats wrong

Lets talk about Chloe for a second. Chloe started out as the obligatory standard mean girl that every show for girls feels the need to have, but then in season 2 the writers were like "what if she had she had some character development, some setup for a full-on redemotion arc later down the line even?" so they put her sob-story about how the was neglected in there and did some other stuff to make her more sympathetic. They werent all that consistant about it tbh, but this is Miraculous Ladybug and thats how we roll babeyy. And then they were like "nevermind actually, we dont want this anymore" and just like that, they stopped bringing up her sob story and stopped trying to make her sympathetic. I get the impression that they were still trying to atleast make her interesting in season 3 with her resisting that akuma but by season 4 she was just more awful and more pathetic than ever before.

Gabriel and his dead-wife-sob-story is functionally the same as Chloe and her neglectful-parents-sob-story except the writers never changed their mind on Gabriel being a sympathetic, if still villainous, character. Like with Chloe, theyre not particularly consistant about it, with there being multiple episodes where hes perfectly fine abusing his son and putting him in danger for the sake of getting the Miraculous. I think that mostly stems from the fact that the writers ultimately want him to be a sympathetic and even tragic character but there are some episodes, like Cat Blanc and Ephemeral, where they just want him to be The Most Evil even towards his own son for the sake of furthering Marinette and Adriens drama, all of that on top of this shows general tendancy towards inconsistancy

So, tldr: no, I think we are meant to sympathize with Gabriel Agreste and also, I doubt we're going to really address him now because I think as far as this show is concerned, we're done with that guy now. the agreste arc is over and we're just not gonna get into it

The other thing that I wanted to talk about was Adriens absence during the fight against Monarch. Ive seen some people defend this by being like "Cat Blanc and Ephemeral prove that Monarch cant ever find out that his son is Cat Noir because he would take advantage of him and his distress and it would result in the end of the world", some people also say that those episodes are proof that Adrien "wouldnt be able to handle the truth" which is really infantilizing and stupid and I dont feel like talking about that particular take rn, so I'll just talk about the former. Obviously my first response to that would be, its a story written by people, they couldve simply not written that in order to have a more dramatically satisfying conclusion. But, if I were to stop being Doylist for a second, I would say, when Ladybug told him that Gabriel Agreste might be Hawk Moth, Adrien was distressed and in denial but nowhere close to becoming akumatized. And I recognize that there is a difference between your friend telling you they suspect your dad of being a supervillain and actually finding out about it for yourself, but still, it couldve and shouldve been different

The thing that kills me about this finale is that I genuinely dont know why it had to be this way because I dont think its like, thematically satisfying which is the first explanation my mind jumps to for these kinds of weird endings.

Like, MLB has this theme of identity and while I dont think its executed that well, its definitely the most complex out of the line up of pretty simplistic themes this show has, so we're gonna talk about it

Ladybug and Adrien are the Ideal to Marinette and Cat Noirs Authentic Self. Theyre not wholly seperate though, because Marinette and Ladybug and Adrien and Cat Noir respectively are still the same people, mask or no mask, its kinda like code-switching actually. You probably act differently around your friends than you act around your family, that doesnt necessarily make one way you act inauthentic. However, Marinette and Chat Noirs situations are not the same; there are two major differences between them and they are connected. Ladybug is essentially Marinettes creation, shes like that OC you have thats like you in every way except theyre cooler and better than you and stuff like that, while Adrien is Gabriels creation, not his own

Marinette starts to become more like Ladybug even when in civillian mode because shes becoming the person she wants to be all the time, shes becoming the Ideal that she set for herself, shes not losing any part of her Authentic Self, shes just changing for the better and finding balance and security. Its different for Adrien because in order to find that same balance between the Ideal and Authentic Self, he needs to shed the Ideal that his father is imposing on him and create on based on what he actually wants, which he cant do because of how controlling he is. As a result, Adrien keeps those two personas almost entirely seperate and they dont meld together into one fully realized identity in the same way they did for Marinette. And I find it interesting because obviously his father is the one forcing Adrien to be the way he is in civillian mode, but hes also inadvertantly giving him an excuse, and even forcing him, to be himself and to "act out" when fighting Hawk Moth/Shadow Moth/Monarch

And idk, I feel like the natural conclusion to all that would be to have him fight Monarch directly in order to truly reclaim himself and start on the path to create his own identity. I guess they kinda tried to do that with the rings but like, he had no agency in that, he doesnt know the true significance of those rings, so it just has no impact

Anyway, thats pretty much it, Im suprised that I had nothing to say about the Senti stuff but honestly, for how much I was worrying about all that, it ended up being a pretty minor part of the actual season and while I hate the concept, they didnt really give me anything to complain about, so yeah

Thanks for reading ^^

[uptoolateart]

Miraculous Pacing & Character Arcs

I first wrote this last year on my writing blog at www.vrindapendred.com. I wanted to share it more, and do a follow-up, because I find the hero's journey stuff in this show is incredibly exciting. So, here it is, and more is on its way.

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Some stories just don’t feel right. It might be hard to put your finger on why, but it tends to boil down to two things: pacing and character arcs.

So today I’m going to talk about just that. As my example, I’m going to analyse the popular cartoon Miraculous: Tales of Ladybug and Cat Noir. The story isn’t yet finished, and the internet is teeming with speculation about the direction it will take – most importantly, when the two main characters will come together as a couple. Stick with me and I’ll show you why I think we’ll be waiting a long time yet, due to some fundamental rules of storytelling and character development that I hope will help all you writers out there plot your own stories.

Spoilers ahead….

The Premise

Teenagers Adrien and Marinette are chosen by Master Fu as holders of the ladybug and black cat miraculous (earrings and a ring), which enable them to channel magic powers (creation and destruction, respectively). They use these to fight off the villain Hawk Moth. His ambition is to steal their miraculous and use their combined powers to grant his deepest wish.

To create a great story that pulls people in and keeps them engaged, you need a hook. In this case, Adrien and Marinette are ‘made for each other’. But if they got together right away, there would be no story. So, no one can know their true identities, not even them – but the audience knows. Agonisingly, although Cat Noir is in love with Ladybug, she keeps turning him down because she’s in love with Adrien…who doesn’t notice her that way, because he’s in love with Ladybug. It takes on a darker dimension when we learn Hawk Moth is Adrien’s father Gabriel – and his deepest wish is to resurrect Adrien’s mother from near-death. Again, only the audience knows. As the show has evolved, so have the emotions.

Marinette’s Hero’s Journey

Secrets and dramatic irony are great, but you need still more to make your audience care. You need strong characters whose desires and fears drive the plotline – and they need to learn something. Even the makers of Power Rangers know you need more than just ‘the pink one’. You need to send your heroes on a journey.

For those who don’t know, the hero’s journey is the fundamental character arc that mythologist Joseph Campbell identified in all stories humans have ever told. It has been written about to death and can easily be googled.

Briefly, heroes go through the following key stages:

The ordinary world

The call to adventure

Refusal of the call

Meeting the mentor

Crossing the threshold

Tests, allies and enemies

Approach to the inmost cave

The ordeal

Reward (seizing the sword)

The road back

‘Death’ and resurrection

Return with the elixir

This is a commonly taught method of constructing stories – or knocking through writer’s block. With my YA paranormal series The Wisdom, I had about 2/3 written and an ending in mind, but no idea how to get there. I studied a diagram of the hero’s journey and realised I had followed Campbell’s structure without meaning to. I could pinpoint where each character was on the journey, and that told me what had to happen next.

You can play with and subvert the stages of this journey all you like. It makes your story more interesting. But if you leave one out entirely, your audience will likely feel something is missing or the story wasn’t satisfying.

Marinette’s story fits this structure perfectly. The theme song introduces her as ‘a normal girl with a normal life’. This is the ordinary world stage at the start of her journey. She is then chosen by Master Fu (the mentor) and she doubts her abilities (she refuses the call to adventure). Marinette gradually comes to accept her role as Ladybug, but along the way she undergoes numerous trials and makes many mistakes, growing from each experience. Finally, she is named the new Guardian, to replace Fu. In season four she comes to terms with this and finds that self-belief, illustrated by a change in costume and the ability to create out of nothing. She has fully come into her power. I’d call this the death and resurrection stage, and the return with the elixir.

So, shortly into season four we’re already at the end of her hero’s journey – but the writers had five seasons planned, now extended to seven. What could happen next?

Keep in mind that your heroes can go on multiple journeys within one story. Marinette has begun a new journey. But is this enough? When are our dynamic duo going to learn each other’s identities and come together as a romantic couple? Are the writers just spinning it out as long as they can?

I would argue that from a storytelling perspective, our heroes actually can’t come together as a couple yet. The reason is: Adrien.

Adrien’s Hero’s Journey

When constructing your story, your characters must undergo a realistic and believable process of emotional and mental development.

My teenager asked me why Ladybug got a new costume but didn’t make one for Cat Noir – ‘It’s not fair.’ But the costumes reflect the wearer’s unconscious. When Marinette once used the cat miraculous herself, she looked nothing like Cat Noir. Importantly, she had no collar and bell. Adrien thought up that detail because he feels so trapped and dominated by his father. Adrien’s costume will change when he completes his personal journey.

And he needs to, or the audience will be dissatisfied. If we don’t see his journey, he’s just some boy for girls to fawn over. This doesn’t just apply to romance. As writers, we should always strive to avoid having a single star our readers come to know really well, surrounded by empty names on a page.

When Adrien is given his miraculous, he’s so excited that he impetuously uses his new powers without listening to instructions first. No refusal to the call, here. That tells us that being Cat Noir is not his adventure. Adrien’s journey is to free himself from his father.

Adrien was home schooled for fourteen years. His father has made every decision for him, including choosing all his hobbies. Adrien is frequently shown behind bars, e.g. in nightmares, and in a film made with friends. His first name means ��dark one’ (like ‘noir’) and his surname Agreste refers to wildness. We see this wildness when he’s Cat Noir but not as Adrien. He has been unhealthily domesticated.

Adrien has been bred to be ‘perfect’, as just about everyone describes him. But Adrien isn’t perfect, and only the audience knows this. He’s frustrated and bored with life. He has a suicidal streak, endlessly sacrificing himself as Cat Noir and expressing almost religious faith that Ladybug will save him. And when he is temporarily transformed into the villain Cat Blanc, we learn that brewing just under the surface is a temper so strong that it could literally destroy worlds. But he can’t show that to anyone. He explodes because normally he suppresses all emotions. He works as a fashion model (his father’s decision), and even in daily life he feels he must pose all the time, like the wax statue he once pretended to be. The theme of secret identities extends well beyond magical costumes: even as Adrien, he is not himself.

It is 2021 right now, and Adrien has been refusing his call since 2015. In all that time, the only thing he has truly done for himself has been to insist upon attending school and meeting some friends. Otherwise, he does what everyone says. He obeys his father. He dated a girl who forced herself on him. Even as Cat Noir, he lets Ladybug make every decision. When will he go on his adventure? And who is his mentor? (It was never Fu.)

We have to look at the hero’s journey to see where the story must go. If your hero won’t go on that journey, you have to force him – sometimes painfully. In this case, I think Gabriel will tell his son that he’s Hawk Moth, and his plan to resurrect Adrien’s mother. Then, Adrien will be on the journey without realising it.

Gabriel will want to bring Adrien onto his side, and Adrien will be conflicted. He will have a long Luke Skywalker moment. Only then can he decide for himself what sort of person he wants to be, and who lies inside, without outside influence. As a writer, I think it is inevitable that he will lose control for a time before he sees that’s not what being wild means. In my series The Wisdom, Aidan went through a similar process, also tied up with father issues. I felt very bad for what I put him through! But I had to – because no one has those kinds of personal revelations overnight. You need experience.

What we’re seeing is Adrien’s struggle to become an alpha. For now, his father is the alpha – rich, powerful and self-possessed (as was Aidan’s father). Adrien tries to play the alpha as Cat Noir but everyone roles their eyes at it, because he’s posing again. He hasn’t yet learned that a true alpha doesn’t have to try; he naturally exudes power through being sure of who he is. The only way to find himself is to face his Shadow. Put simply, I mean his ‘dark side of the moon’ – the face no one sees. (Moon imagery is strong in this show!) He must come to terms with everything he keeps under the surface – integrate Adrien, Cat Noir and Cat Blanc and make something new from that.

Interestingly, by season four his father has acquired new powers and renamed himself Shadow Moth. In my mind, Adrien must see all the ways he’s actually similar to his father, before he can rise above that and decide how to use those qualities for good and be a better man than Gabriel. Then his costume will change and he will lose the collar and bell. All of this needs careful pacing. If we jump straight to the endpoint without putting Adrien through the wringer first, he hasn’t earned that transformation – and that’s not believable or satisfying.

In the recent episode Wishmaker, we saw what I regard as the beginning of Adrien going on his journey. He finally made the speech I was waiting for – admitting to himself and others that he has no interest in being a model, but he has no idea what he does want either. And until he works that out, the romance we’re waiting for can’t happen – because even Marinette calls him ‘perfect’. She loves someone who isn’t real. That’s not the foundation for a healthy relationship – nor is loving someone you regard as your leader rather than your equal (Ladybug).

At the risk of sounding cliche: you can’t love others until you love yourself. Therefore, from a writing perspective, it is impossible for the two of them to come together until Adrien stands on his own. A good writer knows this process can’t be rushed. In The Wisdom, I decided the only way to achieve this was to separate Aidan from anything that gave him a sense of security. Equally, Adrien needs to stop looking to Ladybug to save him and come into his own power. The final battle – with his father – must ultimately be his to fight. Then, Adrien and Marinette will be in the right place individually to make a new journey together.

So, what do we take from this?

1. Think about your main characters. Have you given them equal attention, or do you have a single star surrounded by names on a page?

2. Alternatively, maybe you have too many main characters. Giving a hero’s journey to every character is just as problematic as having undeveloped characters. Focus only on your actual ‘heroes’.

3. Try mapping your heroes’ story arcs against the hero’s journey. Is anything missing? What stage are they each at? Where does that tell you they need to go next? If they’re at drastically different stages (like Adrien and Marinette), does that cause conflict? Work with that!

4. Or did they all reach the final stage by page 40? If that’s the case, maybe you have a short story on your hands – or maybe each stage needs more development.

A golden rule is that if the emotions fall flat, or you have no idea what happens next, it’s a good time to look at that hero’s journey and see what you’ve missed or rushed through. Remember: it’s not about spinning out a story as long as you can. It’s about creating something that’s believable, relatable and satisfying.

[myvirtuesuncounted]

just been randomly thinking and there is one similarity I have noticed between Lila and Azula.

Both of them have been given the potential to gain a redemption arc but they didn’t because they didn’t want to.

For Azula, her breakdown in the finale episode shows the audience that the evil and violent image she has put on is just part of being Ozai’s weapon and a lack of her mother’s love that Zuko received ( I wonder if Azula had gotten the same attention from Ursa as Zuko did, she would turn out different). In the comics (mainly The Search), we see Azula tag along with the Gaang to find Ursa and Zuko wants to give Azula a chance at being good. His friends are a little wary but they go along with it.

Despite being given these chances, Azula doesn’t take them. Then in Smoke and Shadows, we find out that she was behind the disappearances of the children. So the reason we don’t see Azula given a redemption arc is because she turns down any chance of being good.

This is the similar case with Lila. Her mother is hardly around and she wants attention. At first, we only see her lie to gain popularity and so far she wasn’t really harming anyone. Then, when Marinette catches on with her lies, she’s furious. Lila lies to cover up her messy life and when someone caught her, her life unravels. And then Adrien, her gateway to fame and popularity, finds out about her lies. She threatens Marinette in the bathroom, afraid she is gonna expose her (thanks to Adrien’s advice, she keeps quiet). Marinette even says that they could be friends if Lila didn’t lie all the time. This is the first opportunity that if Lila took it, she could gain a redemption arc.

But she doesn’t.

Then Ladybug offers her a truce at the end of Chameleon. She also refuses that. And Marinette even forgives Lila for getting her expelled and offered to be her friend after Marinette got back in school (the fact that Marinette still doesn’t know why she did that saddens me. I hope she finds out one day). 

But Lila still refuses.

So both Lila and Azula are offered situations where they can improve on themselves but they refuse them because they just don’t wanna be good.

[ilikekidsshows]

Hi! I loved the Adrinette analysis you made...do you think you could make a similar one for Ladybug and Chat Noir over seasons 1 to 3?

I knew I was leaving myself open for this ask, and I kinda dreaded it, because 80% of Ladynoir screen time is dedicated to defeating an Akuma, meaning the characters have something else to focus on rather than progressing their relationship, and most the relationship stuff is just Marinette being really stubborn and refusing to properly look at her partner. In other words, there's significantly more screen time, but also proportionally less stuff going on in Ladynoir than in Adrinette because the characters are superheroes on the job and one party is actively resisting any development happening. It's also a very different kind of arc and relationship to Adrinette where the goal is just the two of them getting closer and more comfortable with each other. Ladynoir has that as well as all the trust issues and superhero team dynamics. Basically, this post is definitive proof that Miraculous has had plot development before season four, and it has had a lot of it. I got almost dizzy with it while compiling this.

Once again, I’m trying to go in a somewhat chronological order to properly track the relationship.

In 'Origins', we only get one-sided Ladynoir stuff. Marinette is new on the job and completely focused on solving the Akuma problem and nothing else. Meanwhile, Adrien actually takes note of his partner. He sees her flounder but ultimately put together a clever plan. He sees her lose faith but ultimately pick herself up and deliver a really badass speech at Hawk Moth. It's really no wonder he fell in love. The number one thing he learned about Ladybug is that she can fail and the second thing was that she could pick herself up again and grab the win anyway. I've brought up earlier in the Top Adrinette Scene discussion that Adrien is very scared of failing, because his father does not forgive failure, so Ladybug being someone who can turn a failure into a win understandably makes his heart go pitter-patter.

Meanwhile, Marinette barely noticed her partner. As I said, she was fully focused on solving the problem, but she was also getting distracted by her own insecurities. Marinette's first experience with Cat Noir was that he was kinda smooth and seemed to be much more confident than Marinette. Her second experience was that he tended to leap before he looked, but was perfectly willing to listen to her say-so. We have a very brief attempt at flirtation from Cat Noir, that Ladybug barely seems to even notice.

In 'Bubbler', Cat Noir actually gets to flirt with his Lady. He's clearly intent on getting her to notice what he's getting at, but Ladybug seems mostly exasperated with him. At this point their partnership is new and Marinette is most likely thinking back to their first case, when Cat Noir was so patient and supportive and not this...much. She still doesn't tell him to quit it, though, meaning she’s trying to accept him being a lot.

'Stormy Weather' has Cat Noir continuing in his attempts to get Ladybug to notice him and this time she responds playfully when they're not right in the middle of a tense situation. She's getting used to this being Cat's way of interacting with her and keeping the mood light.

'Lady Wifi' has the pair discussing the secrecy between them, with Adrien actively making the decision that honoring Ladybug's wishes concerning keeping their secret identities is more important than knowing the identity of the girl he's in love with, that doing so is the proper way to love her. 'Lady Wifi' is also the first time Marinette panics at the idea of something romantic being suggested about her and Cat Noir, when Alya says Adrien might be Cat Noir, that Cat Noir might be the boy she's repeatedly told Alya she's in love with.

'Copycat' shows us for a fact that Ladybug has no idea that Cat Noir's flirtations with her are genuine, and Cat Noir is growing tired of his feelings going entirely unnoticed.

Because of his growing frustration over not being able to communicate his feelings to Ladybug in a manner that she'd take seriously, Adrien goes the extra mile to write her a love poem in 'Dark Cupid'. When he receives a response that appeared with no sender, just a ladybug, he entertains the thought that Ladybug answered his poem and does in fact return his feelings (not realizing that Ladybug would need to know his identity to deliver such a note to him specifically, but Adrien does generally worry less about secret identities than Marinette). 'Dark Cupid' is also the first occasion of Marinette's by-now patented plan "Pretend to be in Love with Cat Noir" to solve problems, except that she was absolutely certain that a True Love's Kiss could occur between them, so there isn't even much room for pretending, but Marinette's denial is so powerful, she'll try.

In 'The Mime' we see Cat Noir actually testing Ladybug's receptiveness to a date, by suggesting that they could have gone to the play together if they didn't have to detransform. Ladybug replies that she has other plans before zipping away, and Cat Noir merely smiles after her. His feelings are growing, and he might still be remembering the love note he got. In fact, this is probably why he says "We are meant to be," in 'Gamer'.

In 'Animan' Ladybug actually does some of her own flirting with Cat Noir by giving him chin scritches. We also see a very straightforward gesture of affection from Cat Noir to Ladybug, when he hugs her in relief after the battle. Ladybug smiles softly at him, seeing that her partner cares about her well-being, while Cat Noir jumps back, embarrassed over his own reaction, or perhaps even afraid of censure. Adrien isn't the type of person to suddenly grab people in a hug, most likely because such "overly emotional" displays are discouraged in the Agreste household. This is the first occasion of Adrien projecting his father's supposed reaction to a thing he does on Ladybug, so he runs away from her.

In 'Simon Says', Cat Noir clings to Ladybug when faced with Gabriel looking at him weirdly (he's trying to figure out if he's Adrien, but Adrien himself never realizes his father was suspicious of his identity). At this point, Ladybug has started to become something of a security symbol to Adrien specifically against his father.

'Reflekta' is the episode where Cat Noir reminds Ladybug that he doesn't just deliver quips and he is actually a hero in his own right, even with diminished capabilities, in response to Marinette almost leaving him behind because he couldn't use his Cat Noir powers, because he'd "just slow (her) down", and then it turns out she couldn't have won without him. However, with the scene of Cat Noir taking the hit, Ladybug also starts on the process of realizing exactly how important her partner is to her success. Noticeably, it's while they're plotting together that Ladybug responds to his flirtation by flirting back, even if not very well (protip, Marinette, demeaning someone isn't funny to anyone but the person doing the demeaning, the other person is not suddenly lacking a sense of humor). Cat Noir is also a bit softer with his overtures in this episode, his cheeky flirtation gaining a bit more intimacy.

In 'Antibug', we can see the lessons Ladybug learned in 'Reflekta' sticking, with Ladybug listening to and valuing Cat Noir's input, unlike how the last time he tried to give her advice in a Chloé situation in 'Evillustrator', when she acknowledged he was right but couldn't bring herself to follow his advice. She also flirts with Cat Noir of her own volition, when she rings his bell. Cat Noir also keeps showing genuine warmth towards Ladybug instead of being just cheeky, when Ladybug compliments him. They affirm their bond after taking down Antibug.

The events of 'Reflekta' and 'Antibug' together influence what happens in 'Volpina', where Marinette is very suspicious of a new superhero showing up, without ever suspecting she could have been an Akuma in disguise. Cat Noir is her partner, and Cat Noir is her only partner. She’s not only learned his value, but has grown possessive over him. There's no need for any outsider. This jealousy over Cat Noir is actually something Marinette doesn't get over during the first three seasons the way she learns to deal with her jealousy over Adrien.

By the time 'The Collector' happens, Adrien has developed enough trust in his partner to ultimately believe her over her suspicions about Gabriel being Hawk Moth. This episode also has the first time Marinette voices concern over Cat Noir's emotional well-being instead of merely physical, who, of course, can't tell her what's wrong because it would break the secret identity clause.

'Prime Queen' has some very nice mutual Ladynoir flirting at the start of the interview. However, they're both mortified when Nadja comes out with the pictures. Cat Noir is confused, because he had no idea that their relationship could even give that impression, he must have been feeling like he hasn't been making much progress in getting closer to Ladybug. Meanwhile, Marinette goes defensive for the first time since 'Lady Wifi' only, this time, even more so. She even runs out on Cat Noir when he, very understandably, wants an explanation why he head to learn from a reporter that she'd planted one on him instead of from her. The episode confirms that Marinette will refuse to, in any way, discuss anything romance-related in relation to Cat Noir, even when there's an innocent explanation, like breaking an Akuma's spell. She's so defensive it's suspicious.

We also have another occasion of Marinette "pretending" to be in love with Cat Noir to solve a problem. While Cat Noir purrs either over the confession, having her close, or both. Marinette also jumped at the chance to "pretend" to confess her love so eagerly, that it left Prime Queen unimpressed. Still, Marinette refused to commit to the "ruse" enough to kiss Cat Noir while he's actually conscious and aware of it, because then she'd have to deal with the aftermath of kissing him.

'Dark Owl' has the first true test of faith between Ladybug and Cat Noir, when both of them have to trust the other not to look while they have to recharge. Although, considering 'The Collector', this is actually the first test only for Ladybug. At the end of the episode, Adrien also genuinely asks Ladybug out on a date for the very first time when they unexpectedly have free time from Owl-sitting, but Marinette preferred to skip off to spend time with Alya since she hadn’t gotten to see her while being so busy with The Owl's antics for so long.

'Glaciator' has Cat Noir planning an actual outing for Ladybug. The thing is, before 'Glaciator', Marinette's response to Cat Noir asking her out has always been that she has other plans, no can do. However, in 'Glaciator', she specifically says: "We'll see," and then she ends up ghosting him because she forgot to even send him a message that she didn't feel like going anywhere. At the same time, Gabriel purposefully stands him up for dinner, causing Adrien to project onto the Ladybug situation so hard that he doesn't think Ladybug even sees him as a real friend. Considering Adrien was under the same impression about Marinette in 'Puppeteer 2', it is typical for Marinette to send these kinds of mixed signals (which is fitting, considering how clear communication seems to be the biggest bullet point in her character development agenda).

On the upside, Cat Noir's compromised emotional state led to him being more frank about his feelings to first Marinette and later to Ladybug, finally making Marinette understand that Cat Noir is actually in love with her and how sensitive her partner can really be and that she can hurt his feelings. Notably, in this episode, Marinette particularly enjoys employing her "Pretend to be in love with Cat Noir" gambit, this time even going as far as kissing him, after finding out he's actually in love with her. Indeed, at the end of the episode, her rejection to Cat Noir is entirely focused on her having feelings for someone else (as well). She never once said she doesn't love him, and, in fact, never claims so in the English dub.

In 'Sapotis' we also see a brief glimpse of Marinette's jealousy over Cat Noir when he welcomes Alya onto the team so warmly but, because Rena Rouge was a teammate Marinette herself chose and trusts, she doesn't feel threatened enough to express it more than by merely keeping an eye on their interaction. 'Sapotis' also starts the arc of Cat Noir starting to lose faith in Ladybug having his best interest in mind when Rena Rouge appears out of nowhere and he's expected to just accept that no-questions-asked.

'Gorizilla' notably has Marinette repeatedly voicing her belief that Cat Noir will show up, something Adrien appreciates a great deal, going as far as blushing over something so simple. He's astounded by the fact that his Lady has faith in him, but it seems he still believes it despite the notion being strange to him.

'Frightningale' really drives home the arc going on in this season. 'Riposte' was the first time we saw Ladybug and Cat Noir seamlessly working together to neutralize an Akuma, but in this episode, they move in perfect synch while fighting Frightningale while handcuffed together. Cat Noir and Ladybug's teamwork has reached phenomenal levels.

I've repeatedly said that 'Syren' is less about Cat Noir and Ladybug's relationship and more about Fu's relationships with his two chosen. Still, this is the episode where Marinette gets put on the spot and comes through for her partner and Cat Noir learns that Ladybug keeping secrets from him wasn't of her own volition, but because of Fu, restoring his faith in her completely.

It's most likely because of the trust Ladybug showed towards him in 'Gorizilla' and their perfectly synchronized teamwork in 'Frightningale' that Cat Noir tries to confess to Ladybug again in 'Frozer'. These two episodes could give Cat Noir hope that he might be winning Ladybug over, especially since, as I said before, Ladybug has not said she doesn't have feelings for him. But she, of course, rejects him, although it's notably with more wistfulness than the last time, especially when she comments how she doesn't think it's possible for the "other boy" to not be a concern. 'Frozer' takes place during the arc in season two that covers Marinette's growing frustration at her inability to progress with Adrien the way she wants to and the discontent shows in her interaction with Cat Noir as well.

The change in how Marinette regards Cat Noir's input in fights between season one and two is especially noticeable in 'Style Queen' and 'Maledictator'. Both times Cat Noir is absent in a fight and this influences how Marinette approaches fighting the Akumas. In 'Style Queen' Marinette tries to play it sneaky but also needs to be saved by Plagg's intervention in his holder's absence. In 'Maledictator', Marinette's plan involved siccing the brainwashed Cat Noir on the Akuma's goons. Cat Noir has become necessary to Marinette, which is why he's able to galvanize her during 'Heroes' Day' by reminding her that the two of them against the world is what's always worked.

Season three as a whole revolves around Adrien losing faith that Ladybug could ever return his feelings the way he wishes and Marinette getting several warning signs about how she could lose Cat Noir. I might even go as far as saying that this season has negative Ladynoir development (in that their relationship grows more frayed and brittle instead of stronger).

A big reason for this new development direction is 'Reflekdoll', which, according to the production codes, happens early in the season. In this episode, Ladybug and Cat Noir learn the worst possible (false) lessons about themselves and each other and they carry those lessons for the rest of the season. In my 'Reflekdoll' conflict analysis, I wrote that Ladybug basically "learns" that Cat Noir is fae-like in that he isn't bothered by mortal things like stress or heartbreak. Cat Noir, meanwhile, "learns" that, while it doesn't matter if Ladybug makes a mistake because she can always fix it, him making a mistake makes him fundamentally less worthy as a hero and a person, so he could never be as valuable as Ladybug even as a person and not only strategically.

'Weredad', meanwhile, is the quintessential evidence episode for Marinette being both possessive and in denial about Cat Noir. She's literally pretending to be in love with him to him, while totally denying to herself that she feels anything for him, all the while she's feeling jealous over him seemingly moving on from her to be in love with her. The reason it's so important that no one but Marinette herself and Tikki know what went down in this episode is that Marinette's denial would never last if someone actually questioned this whole mess.

This is also an episode where we can clearly see the aftermath of what 'Reflekdoll' did to Cat Noir. He's once again projecting his situation with his father onto someone else (this time Tom), but he's also blatantly refusing to fight Tom at full strength, because he feels that it's his fault he got Akumatized, allowing himself to get hurt severely because he feels he's not that important, that he might even deserve it.

'Oblivio' has Ladybug once again do the whole: "How dare you say I'm in love with Cat Noir I am quitting this conversation right now!" routine. Cat Noir also got actual confirmation that something about him made his Lady want to kiss him when their memories had been wiped.

'Desperada' has the semi-infamous scene of Ladybug saying she doesn't need Cat Noir and, while she learns the valuable lesson that yes she flipping does, this is also the episode where Adrien repeatedly fails to use the Snake Miraculous correctly, having to give it up to someone else, feeling like an undeserving failure *turns to look at 'Weredad' and then at ‘Reflekdoll*.

'Kwamibuster' is an episode where everyone keeps telling Ladybug not to trust Cat Noir and she believes it to the degree that she sees him as a bigger threat than a Kwami-targeting Akuma. In other words, Cat Noir being treated like a part-time hero again in season four is because of 'Kwamibuster'.

'Gamer 2.0' is actually an important episode for the Ladynoir dynamic. This is the episode where Marinette takes on way too much responsibility (voluntarily) and is really stressed about it, while Cat Noir dismantles that stress with his good humor and positive outlook. This episode enforces the lesson that was stated outright in 'Reflekdoll': "Everyone has their role", and Cat Noir's role is to be the jokester who makes Ladybug feel better. Also, Cat Noir doesn’t even hesitate to make a sacrifice play for his Lady, because he’s less important.

'Timetagger' foreshadows that Marinette's words of affirmation are losing their effect. She repeatedly says things like "I trust Cat Noir", "You're irreplaceable", "You know you're the best", but she doesn't know how to express her regard to Cat Noir in actions. And it's important to note that Adrien was raised among liars and manipulators. Even if he doesn't doubt Ladybug's intentions, he might doubt the depth and truth of her feelings for him. Because Ladybug is so nice, she might lie about valuing him to make him feel better. Words aren't enough when words are the only thing between you and your insecurities. This is also an episode that feeds into Cat Noir's worthlessness arc, with Bunnyx repeatedly insisting that Ladybug in the future is just awesome, while Cat Noir broke her Miraculous. Even Ladybug shoots him down at the end of the episode when he tries to ask for extra affirmation, claiming he "already knows he's great".

In 'Puppeteer 2', Cat Noir's hope from 'Oblivio' that Ladybug might be starting to be won over by him comes back to bite him when the wax Ladybug gets close to him by pretending to be coming onto him. He only realized she was a fake because she smelled wrong, something that comes back to haunt him in 'Ladybug', when he's faced with a perfect copy, whose only difference to the original is that she's apparently in love with him. The villains clearly know he’s so in love with Ladybug it sometimes blinds him.

With the villains using this clear weakness as an in, it's no wonder that Cat Noir finally makes the decision to move on from Ladybug in 'Heart Hunter'. He tries one more time to test her interest to see if she'd be jealous of him dating and, when she's merely overjoyed, he decides to finally move on to Kagami. However, when faced with the actual reality of Cat Noir giving his attention to someone else instead of her (instead of in addition to her), Ladybug actually finds herself hurt and questions the lack of "My Lady" in Cat Noir addressing her, but she instantly denies it when Cat Noir notices. Denial denial denial...

Aaaaaand that's a wrap! Putting this together made me realize just how interconnected the show really is but no one notices because there aren’t any secret identities being revealed, people getting together or lore being revealed. Even something that seems like a breather episode like 'Gamer 2.0' has a larger role in the arc of developing the relationship between our main heroes.

[familyagrestefanblog]

Ml Meta analysis: Adriens current absents, season 4 structure and theory on whats to come

Here I am back again with my endless rambling.

I'm just as worried for our cat son as everyone else (maybe even more) which is why I tried figuring out for my own sanity why he is so absent currently.

Upfront I wanna warn yall that I wrote this post in one rush this night and therefore had no time to do alot of editing. So things can probably get a bit more messy than usual but I tried to write it clearly, while writing 2 other ml essays as well. This is the one drawback of having so many episodes in such a short time, I have no time to write my posts x3 I had another theory planned for before Optigami airs but I don't think I can manage before tomorrow.

But let's not waste any more time. Grab a snack and here we go:

It's 2am right now but I think I just realized why Adrien/Chat Noir is being sidelined so much recently.

Sure, yes, it'll come into play in the very obviously set up Ladynoir drama later on but what I wanna talk about now is more the structure of how s4 is most likely written in terms of both Marinettes and Adriens side of the story. And then deep dive a little on why I think so.

You see season 4 is now reaping what has been built up from s1-s3, but this also includes that you have to take the time now to properly recreate the new possibilities out of the loose pieces of the broken status quo.

Seriously, season 4 has to handle and reinvent ALOT. The show got now officially announced to have 7 seasons, which is exactly the amount of seasons Astruc said they have story for. I couldnt find the official tweet from Thomas himself but I one from another source:

And now look take a look at the possible shows structure:

- s1-s3 was the first status quo and built up everything so now they can pay off after pay off while...

-... S4 is now the transitional season where the old status quo gets left behind as we work towards the new one.

-I have nothing to proof this of course, but in the same sense it would now make sense that s5-s7 where/are planned to play out under the final status quo. If I'm not wrong at first the show was under contract for 5 seasons, which would mean that after the transitional season 4 there was only 1 season of the final status quo for sure. Still, done right it could have been worth the wait. But this isn't where Miraculous will end. The show actually got the 7 seasons the creator wanted and THIS is how I think the long term plan makes the most sense. Nothing all too complicated but still hella effective in its execution.

But now back to our two main characters, because Marinettes and Adriens development are the two aspects that will raise the show to the intense heights of the s5-s7 status quo.

From s1-s3 Marinette was the active player but she was hardly involved with the actual PLOT of the show, since most of the plot and backstory of the show lies directly with the Agreste family. She only started to get her own plot when she literally created a new one by getting involved with the miraculous lore, because the closest Marinette got to the Agreste plot was "The collector".

Adrien in the other hand was always literally right in the middle of the plot but he wasn't enough of an active player to bring us further either.

Season 4 is now going to add the missing parts for both of them and as the very beginning of the season showed us: there are going to do it SEPERATLY.

This is why "Truth" and "Lies" have been structured the way they are (One Marinette-centric the other Adrien-centric). Yes, Marinette and Adrien are meant to end their story victoriously together, but they are simply not the people they have to be to become such a powerful team. Certain aspects of their journey they have to do... basically disconnected from the other one. The "Miracle Queen" endcard shows it quite nicely as well where they are heading now: away from each other.

Obviously the season started with Marinette growing into her new guardian status including everything miraculous related, since she is the main lead and because the new ways the episodes can now utilize everything Miraculous need to be established first before we deep dive into the messed up Agreste mystery.

So while I totally agree that it is annoying to get so little Adrien/Chat Noir content currently I also understand the practicality behind it. As I said, before s4 Marinette was the active main character who mostly didn't really have her own plot. So now adding her plot aspect and have her ACTIVELY figure everything needed out means that right now Marinette/Ladybug is the active focus main character who is solving a huge part of her s4 character arc. That simply drowns out Adrien as the currently still mostly-inactive secondary main character who, yes, may be right in the middle of the shows emotional + villain plot/lore/backstory, but that side of the story simply isn't in focus at the moment.

And I gotta say, I'm kinda glad they're doing it this way. Because I'm gonna be honest, when the season starts giving us Adrien/family Agreste episodes like "Lies" and "The collector" (in this case "Gabriel Agreste" for example) again, I don't want the narrative to be forced to spend time with something guardian lore based just because they didn't took their time to do it earlier.

So, as we see on the s4 episode raster "Gabriel Agreste" is episode 9. Honestly, I expect most of it (especially the ones near the beginning, so ep. 5 included) til that episode to be Marinette based the way everything else til now did (besides Lies obviously and Guilt trip didn't hardcore focus on Marinette/Ladybug either and that's because it's after "Gabriel Agreste") in the spirit of "Truth". It's just the needed set up from Marinettes side of the story and I can live with that.

Because we actually saw the change after "Gabriel Agreste" already in "Guilt trip".

I don't know why some people pretend like Chat almost cataclysming himself after hearing how guilt-eaten Nino is for Adriens sake isn't a huge indicator that the episodes afterwards will not only acknowledge but also DEAL with Adriens/Chats situation and problems. Remember, we are talking about CHAT NOIR here not Adrien Agreste. The show has always portrayed and acknowledged ADRIENS issues very straight forward and with the proper seriousness (especially when it comes to his family), whereas Chat Noir was often mostly used for comedic purposes with some exceptions of his problems being properly delt with (since Marinette/Ladybug was mostly oblivious to them, since Adrien keeps them hidden so well). But now in "Guilt trip" LADYBUG was confronted head-on with just how much negativity Chat has inside and how quickly and extremely he drowns in it.

Sure, correct, the episode also has his negativity "washed away" rather quickly by Ladybug opening up to him on how important he is to her

But this is in character for both of them as "Lies" very clearly showed us that the way BOTH OF THEM behave here is where the problem lies. There Ladybug was freaked out after Chat threw his life away once again but quickly accepted Chats very direct avoidance of the confrontation, since he seemed to be alright to her.

Something I also find noteworthy here is that Ladybugs dialog is "Seriously, you need to stop doing this to me!", which is.... a VERY Marinette-centric way of acknowledging the problem.

It completely shifts the issue away from Adriens extremely alarming self-harmful/suicidal tendencies and instead only calls out how it affects Marinette (whose feelings here are definitely valid, don't get me wrong!). It showcases perfectly how unaware Marinette still is of her partners inner tumult at that point and also parallels how Marinette called Adriens life "perfect" at the beginning of the episode (This is no shade towards Marinette, in general the entirety of "Lies" is about showing us just how harmful Adriens Chat Noir persona actually IS to him so these two moments of her being oblivious to Adriens and Chats immense problems very much fits into that episodes narrative and sets up what's about to come. I still have an entire essay in the making for "Lies" but, guys, it's just getting longer and longer. I suck xD).

So the fact that an episode after "Gabriel Agreste" brings this scenario back, just a little different but ALOT more revealing of Adriens immense problems to his partner, is VERY telling. Besides other things it tells us that this happens at the beginning of the arc that deals with (at least) Chats issues since Ladybug is still way too quickly too ready to accept her partner as "completely fine" again just because Chat makes it seem that way (while some negativity increasing guilt bubbles still to stick to him.).

And yet, others have already pointed it out that Ladybug IS noticing what Chat wanted to do and reacted accordingly...

she just didn't speak of it the way it is because it overwhelmed her, which calls back to Ladybugs "You have to stop doing this to me!" dialog.( For a great breakdown of her dialog HERE is a link to @flightfoot​ post)

In "Lies" Marinette was way too stressed by her new guardian role to even consider Chats side of it and therefore only spoke of her own, but in "Guilt trip" she's already past that stressful arc. So here she is immediately able to recognize Chats suicidal action for what it is, come to his (much needed) aid and lift her partners spirit the best she can by emotionally opening up to him (which is something we KNOW is incredibly hart for Marinette).

The difference between her reaction in "Lies" and in "Guilt trip" shows that Marinette has her guardian role already mostly handled and is now mentally able to be there for others again, so the extremely Marinette-centric "Truth"-like episodes are mostly passed. Now the episodes can bring Adrien/Chat Noir more into the game again and even shift to "Lies" - like episodes because MARINETTE can pay more attention to him again and isn't faced with something new, important and overwhelming Miraculous related every step she takes.

And THAT is extremely fair from a narrative standpoint.

---

I really need to stop elaborating so much on these posts because I'm only NOW actually getting to the point of where Adriens journey will disconnect for a while from Ladybugs. Sorry guys.

Okay, to understand where I'm going with this I will have to quickly explain how I always saw Chat Noirs place in the Ladybug+Chat Noir vs Hawkmoth war ever since s1.

Because here is the thing: Adrien wasn't able to truly leave the battle field ONCE since the origins. Marinette was completely out of Hawkmoths and Gabriels reach once she detransformed, which balances out her basically being the personification of the good sides force. And Gabriel literally decided whenever or not the battle is even ACTIVE right now! Besides that he is in complete control of his own actions and environment, which gives him all the necessary time, safety and downtime he needs to act as the personification of the evil sides force.

Marinette and Gabriel always knew when they were safe and off the battle field, but ADRIEN never had that and it left him LITERALLY right in the middle of both Ladybugs and Hawkmoths sides.

You see, because before Adrien became Chat Noir he basically was part of Hawkmoths side just by default. He was born into this family, that's his father and lost mother and everything he knows. Adrien didn't/doesn't even have to KNOW that he is part of Hawkmoths side, he's his son at some level he just IS! And I'm not saying this as anything negative, Adrien coming from Hawkmoths side is literally the reason why he became Chat Noir!

Because whereas Gabriel is having the time of his damn life as evil terrorist, created out of tragic and sinister circumstances, ADRIEN on the other hand couldn't handle his families environment and very same circumstances anymore and accepted the role as Paris' hero to escape his heritage for a while.

Keywords being: a WHILE.

Something unique about Adrien I always loved is the fact that he is the villains abused, isolated and overworked SON, who becomes a hero to escape his depressing life and YET it was never Adriens intention to LEAVE IT. Adrien merely wanted to use his time as Chat Noir to let of some steam and breath freely while doing some hero work so he can go back into his civilian life and try to one day successfully ment his broken family. He couldn't handle the current situation anymore but he still always saw worth in his family/father. I have SO MUCH respect for that!

But him not intending to leave his family and instead regaining strength as Chat Noir to continue to hold onto it came with the downside of him not being able to fully become part of the good sides people/force either. Hence why Adriens/Chats place always felt so lost in comparison to Ladybugs and Hawkmoths clear positions. He's caught in between their extremes trying to balance out BOTH at the same time. What an impossible task!

So he couldn't put in the same focus as Ladybug into being the good sides force because he is literally burned out from his civilian life on Hawkmoths evil side. But he also couldn't be involved as an ACTIVE member of his fathers evil force, because he chose to find refuge in his friends and as a hero on Ladybugs side.

Adrien unknowingly is part of BOTH the shows two extreme moral sides of good and evil and this season we will see Adrien/Chat Noir grow into his own within BOTH sides as well.

Because he simply couldn't have done so right away in s1. Now after 3 seasons Chat Noir is more than solidly established as one of Paris Heros and his time with Ladybug, the other heros and his normal friends helped him greatly to find his place on the good side. "Lies" set this up as Chat Noirs arcs starting point that now he has to stop connecting "being heroic" strictly with following Ladybug (as Marinette is the STAND IN personification for the good side, she's still a flawed human being like everyone else and not the ultimate force of perfect and good. Big difference.) just as he has to start looking past his fathers sympathetic moments/qualities to see that Hawkmoth isn't a 100%, inhumane monster just because he is the stand-in personification of evil in their fight, but the man he calls Father and still needs to be taken down. (I talked about this in more detail on THIS post)

Adrien has to seperat himself from Ladybugs path and focus on his family and I believe it'll start with the much dreaded (but expected) Ladynoir fight.

Funnily enough, what I'm talking about was actually already set up in "Frozer" I just didn't remember that for a bit. In "Frozer" we saw Ladynoir having a fight which caused Chat Noir to go his own way in the episodes battle.

I always found it interesting that the episode didn't had Chats decision, to not follow Ladybugs lead here, turn out to be a huge mistake. Almost every other show would have done so but now I think I understand. This episode and s2 in general SET UP the s4 conflict, s3 LEAD UP to it and now s4 DELIVERS it.

So what happened in "Frozer" is a direct parallel to what about to go down:

Ladynoirs fight will cause Chat Noir to not simply  follow Ladybugs side anymore the way he used to, but note, he DOESN'T leave the good side AND they make up again in the end after Chat saves Ladybug from the akuma. He just does things on his own because he isn't on great terms with her for a while. "Frozer" showed Chats decision to not only NOT be a mistake but also a necessary part of defeating the akuma, just the way it'll be in s4. Damn, Adrien breaking away from Ladybugs side, the way she (unintentionally tho) did at the beginning of the season, to focus more on himself and his family will be the game changing factor, when Adrien will have his completing arc where he goes from "not active character within the villain/backstory plot" to "ACTIVE character within the villain/backstory plot".

And we already saw with Marinette how many fast breakthroughs we get through these completing arcs. Which is also a reason for why Adriens/ Chats arc comes later in the season, because BUDDY. Once Adrien starts to actively uncover his families mystery and fathers secrets Gabriel is SCREWED! Adrien will gain the needed inside knowledge that complements Marinettes Miraculous power; and reunited they can take on whatever the hell kind of scale the Agrestes plan actually is.

So how to end this post? My biggest intention was to raise hope for everybody (myself included lol) who is right now very concerned and upset about how side-lined our boy is at the moment. But I prefer doing so in a way that actually works with canons context instead of sugarcoating what I don't like. And Adriens/Chats current position I definitely do NOT like but accepting it as realistic outcome from s1-s3 and set up for the escalation for both Ladynoir and his home situation gives it the proper purpose and pay off (narrative and character wise) that it SHOULD have.

Basically, the endcards of "Truth" and "Lies" show it perfectly.

It looks like ShadowMoth is turning a blind eye towards Adrien/Chat Noir because of Ladybugs new guardian status and "greater importance". But Gabriels tunnel vision on Ladybug will leave him vulnerable to his own sons secret actions against him and Gabriel won't see it coming until its already too late.

[immaturityofthomasastruc]

Lila Rossi: I’d Say She’s a Good Villain, but Then I’d Be Lying (300 Follower Special)

Deception and cunning are easily two of the most important traits an antagonist could have. It shows that even if they don't have the strength to overcome obstacles, their wit is more than enough. This kind of trait is why characters like Lex Luthor, David Xanatos, and Princess Azula are so beloved, simply because of how intelligent they can be as villains and pose a real threat to the heroes.

It's clear that the Miraculous Ladybug writers want Lila to be seen as this, but the writing seriously fails to back that claim up.

Easily one of the most controversial characters in Miraculous Ladybug is Lila, mainly for the writing surrounding her. But there was a time where she was actually more of an ambiguous character, mainly for the lack of screentime she had until Season 3. But unfortunately, the more appearances she's had have painted a very poor portrait of an antagonist.

Lila's Tragic and Sympathetic Motivation for Hating Ladybug

Lila's first appearance was at the tail end of Season 1, “Volpina”. She was a new transfer student from Italy, and quickly made friends with a lot of her classmates for the lies she told, including being friends with Ladybug (which Alya blindly believed without doing any research like any excellent journalist). But because of how close she was getting to Adrien, Marinette, in a rare act of selfishness, transforms into Ladybug just to chew out Lila for lying about knowing her, humiliating her in front of Adrien. And this is the only motivation we get for what Lila does afterwards.

I'm not saying that it's wrong for Lila to get upset at Ladybug for doing this, and I like the moment of weakness Marinette has, but this is literally the only explanation we get for Lila deciding to side with Hawkmoth, a literal terrorist. As much as I hated the way the arc turned out, I could still understand Chloe siding with Hawkmoth, as it was clear that Hawkmoth was manipulating her and taking advantage of her ego. Lila? Ladybug's mean to her one time, and that inspires her to conspire with a complete stranger who brainwashes people to attack the city, which endangers innocent people and causes God knows how much in collateral damage if not for Miraculous Ladybug fixing everything.

I just don't get how a single negative interaction with someone is enough to conspire with a literal supervillain. Even in Season 3, when Marinette and Lila truly became enemies, it was because she risked exposing all the lies she told, which could damage her reputation. Sure, it's petty, but it makes sense for Lila to want to keep up the illusion. If she was simply an antagonist to Marinette in her civilian life like Chloe was before “Miracle Queen” , I'd be fine with that, but the writers clearly want her to be seen as on the same level of evil as Hawkmoth. I'll get into why that doesn't work later on.

Why Lila is an Excellent Liar

In my Master Fu analysis, I had pointed out that despite all the flaws he had, the narrative insisted on portraying him as an incredibly wise mentor. The same problem applies for Lila as well. We're supposed to see Lila as an expert manipulator and liar, but her lies are insultingly obvious. She always claims to be friends with celebrities and does all these awesome things, and in an age where we can have almost any question answered thanks to the internet, nobody ever stops to question her.

It's even more frustrating when you hear Lila talk about saving Jagged Stone's cat, when Jagged Stone is established to be very fond of Marinette (evidentially more than his own daughter), and nobody ever points that out. I think if Lila's lies were more stories about her travels around the world than outright lies about real people, it could have worked. It'd still be hard to believe, but it's something.

But this is a problem with writing shows aimed at children. As much as we hate writers who need to spell out things to kids, sometimes, they just don't understand some of the media they consume. Seriously, I never got this joke in SpongeBob as a kid, and I can't believe Nickelodeon actually approved this.

So the dilemma when writing a show with children in mind is finding that sweet spot between assuming your audience can figure it out, but not being too vague in your details. It's even harder when you need to find a way to convey the fact that someone is lying without being too obvious. Unfortunately, the show clearly fails to do that

Okay, this is going to sound like an incredibly weird thing to cite, and I only know about it because I used to know someone who was a huge fan of the franchise, but the movie Monster High: Friday Night Frights does a better job of subtly explaining to the audience that a character is lying. Please, just hear me out.

The movie follows the main characters competing in their high school's roller derby for the season after everyone on the usual team gets injured, and the championship match is against another school whose team tends to cheat to win matches. How they manage to do this without getting caught is anyone's guess. While the main characters are practicing, their coach, Clawd, notices a spy for the enemy team taking video of them to study their moves. In response, he calls over one of the athletes, Operetta, to chew her out for her showboating attitude. In reality, he's alerting her to the spy. Only using facial expressions, he clues her, and by extension, the audience, in on the fact that they know what the opposing team is trying to do.

This soon leads to Operetta pretending to tell the enemy team about their secret plan for the championship match, which was really an attempt to outsmart them to gain the advantage in the final stretch. The brilliance of this is how the audience is informed of this with no dialogue, and there's no scene afterwards spelling it out for those who don't get it. It manages to convey deception without being too obvious that Clawd and Operetta are being deceitful.

I think if there were more subtle hints to show the audience Lila was lying, she would be seen in a better light. As it is, Lila's lies are just pathetic, and it's ridiculous that everyone believes her. Which leads me to...

Lila, the Master Manipulator

I once read a Star Trek: Voyager fanfic that poked fun at the series by claiming that the reason a lot of the dumber episodes like “Threshold” and “Twisted” happened was because one of the crew members was an alien who unintentionally produced mood altering pheromones, with Captain Janeway actually realizing they were all high because of said pheromones, while two of the unaffected crew members were wondering what the hell they were doing before they found out the cause. Why do I bring this up? Sometimes, it feels like Lila is an unintentional parallel to the alien in that story.

Like so many characters, it's clear the show desperately wants the audience to view Lila in a certain way, but her actions do very little to actually back up that claim. When she's not using lies to tell stories about so many famous people she knows like her uncle who works for Nintendo, Lila is using strategies to manipulate everyone that are so obviously deceptive, the Thermians could pick up on them. Everyone and their mother knows how ridiculous a lot of what Lila does in episodes like “Chameleon” and “Ladybug” are, and I've talked about them before, so I'll try to be quick.

First off, as someone who had access to accommodations through high school and has had assistance in college so far, there is no way in hell that Ms. Bustier should take Lila's tinnitus at face value in “Chameleon”. If a student has a disability that could interfere with the education process, physical or developmental, not only does the school have to evaluate their performance, and determine if they're eligible for an Individualized Education Program, or IEP, but her teachers would have to be notified in the first place. As her primary educator, Ms. Bustier would be part of the team to oversee Lila's IEP and determine what accommodations she needs to help her learn better with her tinnitus and arthritis. But because the writers don't know what Google is, they just ignore it,  assume that Lila can just say she has a disability, and have everyone believe it. Even when Eric Cartman pretended to be disabled to compete in the Special Olympics, he put in more effort to look the part, even if he looked like a caricature.

Then there's the fact that that in “Chameleon”, everyone just believes Lila when she says Marinette stole her grandmother's necklace when not only is said necklace from the Agreste line of jewelry, but Alya, who is Rena Rouge, can't pick up on the fact that it's a fake. All she does to justify these lies is come up with a sob story about how nobody believes her, yet nobody ever tries to defend Marinette except Alya one time, and it was after she got expelled.

Or what about in “Oni-Chan”, where Lila thinks having Kagami kill Ladybug while claiming she'll back away from Adrien is a good idea? Let's say Oni-Chan does kill Ladybug or at least take away her Miraculous, what then? We know Lila wouldn't go through with this promise, and as soon as Kagami sees her harassing Adrien, she'll be ripe for akumatization again. Overall, not a great plan.

And yet somehow, this last example is what made her worthy enough to become one of Hawkmoth's most trusted agents. I'm just going to say it: Lila is not a good fit for the power of illusion. Whenever she's Volpina or Chameleon, she always goes out of her way to make a big show instead of being subtle with her deceptions. “Chameleon” is the worst offender, as even though Lila gets the power to shapeshift into someone else, instead of being discreet and cornering people into kissing them and gaining their appearance, she just runs around to get Ladybug's attention instead of being subtle. Even Felix had the bright idea to pretend to be Adrien to catch Ladybug off guard. How do you lose to something that happened in “Felix”?

Despite all of these screw-ups, we're still supposed to see her as this master of deception worthy of allying with Hawkmoth in both his supervillain and civilian form, when really, she's a terrible liar on the schoolyard and on the battlefield.

Why Lila is an Important Character

In the grand scheme of things, Lila just isn't as important of a character that the show loves to parade her around as. She's nothing more than a plot device used to raise the stakes in an episode, given how much reality seems to bend over just to accommodate for her lies. Even when the show alludes to her being part of bigger things, like her deal with Adrien, or her rivalry with Marinette, they don't even go anywhere.

She just feels pointless when you remember Astruc's brilliant idea to force Chloe into being the final Akuma for the season while Lila isn't even mentioned once. She only really makes appearances whenever the writers feel like it, which is why it’s hard to take her seriously. Why should I take this character seriously as a threat if the writers refuse to take her seriously as a threat? Why build Lila up as a big threat and not give her a major role in the finale? Why even include her in the show in the first place when you could show Chloe being more manipulative to fill in the plots Lila plays a big part in?

As of the time I am writing this analysis, four episodes of Season 4 have aired, three of them have been about lies or deception, and Lila hasn't been mentioned at all. It honestly seems like she won't appear unless the writers need a easy way to drive up the conflict, so they can justify it by saying that Lila's “superpower” of lying is more powerful than the common sense of everyone else.

I'm sorry this post was shorter than the last one, but compared to Master Fu, there's not that much to say about Lila that I haven't already said. Even the show barely gives her any attention, so it's hard for me to really find a lot to talk about.

[sunfoxfic]

I think the issue with the sentimonster adrien discourse is the fact that it's like

Pro-sentimonster Adrien folks: I just think it would be neat, plus there's a lot of foreshadowing and mechanics that have been established that make it possible. It's probably a clown theory but something I'm interested in exploring nonetheless because I like the possibilities and it opens up new doors with new questions that you wouldn't otherwise be able to explore

Anti-sentimonster Adrien folks: Actually it COULDN'T be this because of X, Y, and Z reasons. You're wrong and it's exhausting to see you on my dash. Why are you even doing this when everyone knows it wouldn't be true? It wouldn't fit with Adrien's arc and it would make Gabriel Agreste even more of an asshole which I object to for some reason and also it just makes me sad so therefore it couldn't be true, now that I've debunked it please shut up :(((

And that's clearly an exaggeration but it feels as though all of the "discourse" is being started by people who personally dislike the theory and therefore are using that as fuel for why it couldn't be true. This is fandom, guys. Everyone should get to explore it as they want to. Your preferences are moot in community spaces.

Clown theories are clown theories, okay? The reverse love square that everyone was anticipating before S4 is pretty clearly not gonna happen at this point, but you wouldn't criticize people still making content about it because "oh my God it's CLEARLY not canon so would you please shut up." Why is it any difference for an angst theory? Because it doesn't match up with the character arcs? Because it doesn't fit thematically?

Guess what. Right now, neither does reverse love square.

Yeah, maybe "theory" might be a misnomer for some people who don't believe it's true but still want to explore the concept, but even people who do believe it's true deserve to explore it in peace without being told they're wrong. What's the worst that'll happen if they're wrong? Genuinely, why do you feel the need to shut it down? What are you hoping to achieve?

Idk. I'm just tired of seeing all the popular analysis blogs saying that this conversation needs to stop because it couldn't be true. When has "it couldn't be true" ever been what fandom is about?