#a lot of people think some comics are queer media when they VERY MUCH are not

[lildoodlenoodle]

Me who talks about a comic related special interest INCESSANTLY:

A random person/follower who’s only seen movie/tv show adaptation: Omg that’s so interesting. I should totally read the comics!

Me: no ❤️

[juney-blues]

June Egbert is, and always has been incredibly fascinating to me because of just, how many factors have conspired to make Homestuck fans show their collective transmisogynistic asses.

The main character of Homestuck transitioning is a planned future plot point for the official continuation of homestuck, that was spoiled in advance by a fan making a joke about finding some toblerones Andrew Hussie the author of homestuck hid in a cave.

The current main writers of Homestuck: Beyond Canon have went on record in an AMA confirming that this was indeed always the plan, even before they took up the project.

In spite of these facts, the general consensus among certain homestuck fans seems to be that "June Egbert" is purely a headcanon for the original comic that was "made canon" by a "Toblerone Wish" (a concept that didn't even exist at the time)

For a variety of reasons, the "canonicity" of the postcanon official continuations of homestuck is a mattter of much debate, (though a debate that most homestuck fans seem to err on a side of "it's not canon at all in the slightest," something the writers have feelings on I'm sure.)

All of these factors combined leave the concept of "June Egbert" in a very nebulous place. It's assumed by most to just be an "ascended headcanon" that was shoehorned in, it's a spoiler so it hasn't happened yet in any official media, and the official media it will eventually happen in is regarded by some to be nothing more than glorified fanfic.

If someone is talking about June Egbert, and you don't like the concept of June Egbert, you have your pick of a million different excuses for why she's fake and gay and not worth discussing and bad writing and just the authors doing a gay dumbledore*, paying lip service to representation while actually doing nothing.

And of course, lots of people *don't* like June Egbert! Rather than being introduced as transfem from the start, she's in this nebulous position of discovery where people have to truly reckon with the idea of a "Pre-transition Trans Woman."

You can try to write off *some* of the backlash as transphobia, because obviously not everyone in this fandom is gonna be cool about trans people.

But there's no shortage of fans just dying to tell you about how much they like reading her as transmasc, or the idea of her being nonbinary or genderqueer or genderfluid, or literally anything besides a trans woman. And since they're fine with all those other interpretations, there's obviously no implicit biases driving their distaste for the concept! (if you want to try explaining the concept of "transmisogyny" to people like this you're braver than I.)

you can trust them when they say it's *just* a problem with whether or not it makes sense with the writing, or it just doesn't feel right somehow, or any of the thousands of excuses that this writing situation gives them to just Not Like It.

It's just, so interesting to me. There's not a lot of characters out there that get a trans arc in this way, that leaves room for open denialism and insistence that we have our trans cake and eat it too... Because Homestuck is a timeline spanning multiverse story, lots of people seem to want it to be an alternate timeline thing. Assuring us we can have this character share space with a non-transitioning version of herself and it won't be weird or imply gross things about trans people.

If you ask me it feels like a plotline that'd be really good for exploring some gender horror though, finding your true self and then being demoted to a footnote, an alternate version, because everyone around you likes your pre-transition self more....

Anyway I have no broader point beyond "hey look at this isn't this kinda weird. You don't get this kinda stuff often!"

*side note: it's a little ghoulish I think to compare "a future trans plot point that hasn't been given the chance to even happen yet, in an already famously queer piece of media, from a nonbinary author" to "some stupid shit done by the literal most famous transphobe of all time" but that's perhaps a discussion for later.

[kevin-day-is-bi]

Beginner's Guide to Batman (and Batman-related) Media

(based on my knowledge and the things I enjoy)

Live action Batman movies are very hit or miss. Most of them are fairly middling, but the Dark Knight Trilogy is generally pretty bad. Poor Bruce characterization, white-washing, inaccurate representations of Gotham, etc. I have several thousand words written on that trilogy, and many more on live action movies in general (all of which are accessible thru my pinned post). The Batman (2022) is pretty widely regarded as being good and accurate. It has a much more emo depiction of Bruce. A major pet peeve of mine is that I, personally, don't think it's a very good Riddler, but everything else is good.

As for shows, those are generally less accurate but more enjoyable. Gotham is not technically canon I don't think but it has better aesthetics, canon accuracy, and character design than every live action movie imo. It starts with Bruce seeing his parents' murder and goes up until he first decides to become Batman. Gotham Knights is a much more AU-style show, detailing the death of Bruce and how his adopted son (invented for the show) handles it. It also has Stephanie, Harper and Cullen Row, and Duela Dent, plus great queer rep. Heavily recommended for people who want to know more about general character personalities or who enjoy AUs. Titans has Dick, Jason, and Tim, and while I personally don't think that they did well with the characterization of the other Titans, the Robins are well-done. If you want a good idea of Dick right after he became Nightwing, you want to see Jason as Robin, or you like Tim pre-Robin, this is the show for you.

As for animated shows, the usually widely loved ones are Justice League, Justice League Unlimited, and Batman: The Animated Series. B:TAS is largely accurate to the comics at that time, though it plays a little fast and loose with the Robins (goes straight from Dick to Tim). Plus, it's the first appearance of Harley Quinn! Additionally, I enjoy The Batman (2005), though it plays with the timeline a little and targets a younger audience. Batman Beyond is amazing if you want to get into the future of Batman/Terry McGinnis universe. The accompanying movie, Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker covers Tim becoming Joker Jr.

Speaking of animated movies, there are a Lot. Standouts include the Batman Unlimited movies, which are some of the only ones to include Tim. They're very futuristic, so if you enjoy AUs or the science side of Batman, these are the ones. There are a lot of AU style ones, like Gotham by Gaslight (which I personally really love but don't think is anything particularly special outside of being interesting for characters), The Doom That Came to Gotham, and Batman Ninja. Batman Ninja isn't one of my favorites, but it is very good and has general good characterization. If you want to know more about how Barbara became Oracle but you don't want to read one of the most sexist comics ever, watching the Batman: The Killing Joke movie is a good way to do it. It frames the movie from Barbara's perspective and focuses on her story. If you want to know more about Damian, Son of Batman and Batman vs Robin are good. They detail him becoming Robin and his brush with the Court of Owls. Batman: Under the Red Hood is absolutely necessary viewing for anyone who likes Jason, as it details him coming back to life and becoming the Red Hood (along with having one of the all-time most depressing lines in-context ever).

When it comes to media that doesn't have Batman in it but is Batman-affiliated, Birds of Prey and the Fantabulous Emancipation of Harley Quinn is a really good post-Joker pre-Ivy look at Harley, and it has Helena Bertinelli (Huntress), Dinah Lance (Black Canary), Detective Renee Montoya, and an AU-ized Cassandra Cain. The show Young Justice, particularly the first season, is a really good look at Robin!Dick in non-Bat teams, as is the animated Teen Titans. Both take slightly different routes when it comes to his personality, but both are equally good (especially if most of what you know about Robin!Dick is "holy dental hygiene, Batman!" or his vague backstory). They also both provide introductions into other team families, particularly Young Justice, so if you've just gotten into DC via Batman and want to know more about other characters, YJ is the way to go.

My personal idea of best piece of media for any character:

Bruce Wayne

Pre-Batman - Gotham

Batman: The Animated Series

Alfred Pennyworth

Batman: The Animated Series

Barbara Gordon

Batman: The Animated Series and The Killing Joke

Kate Kane

Batman: Bad Blood

Dick Grayson

As Robin - Young Justice

As Nightwing - the Son of Batman/Batman vs Robin/Batman: Bad Blood trilogy

Jason Todd

As Robin - Titans

As the Red Hood - Batman: Under the Red Hood

Tim Drake

As Robin - Batman: The Animated Series

As Red Robin - Batman Unlimited: Monster Mayhem/Batman Unlimited: Animal Instincts

Stephanie Brown

Gotham Knights

Damian Wayne

Son of Batman/Batman vs Robin

Feel free to send an ask about a specific movie or show (or if you want a detailed list of everything a specific character has ever appeared in!) - I'm currently watching every Batman movie in existence and writing reviews literally so I can provide better recommendations to people (on part 41 rn). I will gladly provide more details about any movie or show. Also if you want to know more about specific media or what media a specific character has appeared in that is Bat-affiliated but is not a Bat, I probably have info! Anyone who's ever been a Titan, most Supers, most of the JLA, etc.

I can do another of these for comic recommendations if anyone wants bc I Do have opinions, I've just had some folks ask questions about specifically non-comic media recently!

[goldentriowins]

Trio Headcanons: (will add more later)

HJP:

Bisexual, bigender (he/they/she in varying order)

Mortified at the idea of being anything other than cishet. Went through a really awkward experimental phase w/ gender that he tried to keep secret (and mostly succeeded at)

Pretty androgynous mostly but can sometimes lean more hyperfem or hypermasc

One of the features he finds most attractive abt people is hair. Hair with a nice color, shiny hair, long hair, fun textures, cool styles, etc. It's something he likes a lot about the other two

SO sure that he only has aesthetic attraction to guys and probably only realized it was gay because of a crush or because someone else pointed out to him that he was acting really gay

Has depression & C-PTSD, possibly also DPDR

Likes unusual pets even if he might not get them himself. Both because he finds them neat and because he relates to them a lot (something a lot of people find unlovable being cared for)

Would main Daisy & Yoshi in Mario Kart (& other competitive Mario games)

Likes RPG games

Sleeps in all sorts of different positions but his signature is curling into a ball. Like a bug

Usually little spoon. Happy to either be laid on or to lay on the others. Likes to be in the middle but won't admit to it (they know)

RBW:

Bisexual, cis (he/him)

Very comfortable being a guy but will sometimes do feminine things if it’s really funny (or if the other two can manage to convince him)

Knows absolutely nothing about LGBT stuff and would probably be really uncomfortable about it at first. Not necessarily in a bigoted/malicious way, more so in a "I don't get it" kind of way. He'd get that from Molly, I think

When he's older he still wouldn't understand all of it but he'd be a massive defender of other queer people

Likes curvy girls and athletic guys mostly

I think he'd figure out he was into guys in some form because of Krum, but he wouldn't have the words for it and would bottle that up for years

Has ADHD

Would main Bowser & DK in Mario Kart but would also like the Koopalings

I think he'd really like video games and Muggle superhero comics but would be hopelessly lost trying to keep up with the lore. He strikes me as someone who would like Cyborg (Teen Titans)

Would like SpongeBob & probably other Nicktoons

I know people probably think of Rupert Grint's voice for him but when I hear Stephen Merchant I think of Ron. Especially his line delivery in Portal 2

Sleeps sprawled out. Limbs hitting all edges of the bed, drools if he's sleeping deep enough, snores constantly but not loud enough to be annoying

Usually big spoon or the one the others would lay on. A clinger

Would start getting the names of Muggle things wrong on purpose to annoy the others

HJG:

Bisexual, cis (she/her)

A bit of a pick-me at times but mostly because she has a weird relationship w/ her gender and doesn’t want to be boxed in by the roles/expectations of being a girl

Into gnc ladies. Found out because of Tonks

Mixed race, Black

Definitely autistic. The stereotypical “gifted kid” who always wanted to be the one to exceed expectations. Got told she was mature for her age by some adult in her life and her view of herself hadn't changed since

Would main Toad in Mario Kart or some misc quirky option like Wiggler

I don't feel like she'd be super into video games but I think she'd like some co-op games and visual novels

Likes Ace Attorney. Her favorite character is Mia

Likes murder mysteries in most media

This might be strange but I feel like voice-wise (sorry if you only hear Emma Watson, for some reason I just don't) it'd be kinda like Shiver from Splatoon 3? Of course without the underwater voice filter

Soldier sleep position. Weirdly stiff and doesn't move much even if someone jostles her around

Can be little or big spoon, prefers to just sleep on top of the others like a blanket

Trio:

Both platonic and Romionarry HCs

Would occasionally have a "girls' night" or a "boys' night." This would still just be the three of them, Ron would be an honorary girl and Hermione would be an honorary boy. And Harry is the same either way

For them, these are like nights where they get to indulge in things they might not usually do. So girls night might consist of makeup & outfits & sewing and boys night might consist of sports or masc outfits instead, etc. This would start when Harry realizes he's bigender to give him a safe space to experiment

Hermione knows fuck all about sports and can't play any to save her life, Harry and Ron can't sew for shit, all three of them would suck at makeup but its fun because they suck at it together

Would get together very slowly and it would probably not be something they have a conversation about. It just kinda happens. It'd be official after the Battle of Hogwarts but they'd basically be together the entire time they're friends lol

The more romantic aspects of their relationship would intensify probably mostly during 6th year and in the tent

They'd have a blast playing Jackboot party games. Like Quiplash and Trivia Murder Party

Might like DnD. I think Ron would be a fun DM

[leliosinking]

I dunno, but having grown up in the 90s/00s with the ‘94 film.. it is admittedly very frustrating seeing new fans constantly trash talking something that was so foundational for queer people my age.

Like, no, it’s obviously not as gay as iwtv22, but it is still very very extremely very queer coded. And that coding is all we had for a long time. Like Lestat’s first levitating bite with Louis? Lestat and the Fop? Louis’s heavy-breathing farewell to Armand? Louis and Lestat’s reunion? These moments meant so much to me growing up, before I ever even knew there were books. And then later reading those explicitly queer moments as I grew older?? It only further cemented the importance of the coded sexuality and how it allowed me to love this very queer thing without having to unpack its queerness with my family.

I just think there’s a lack of consideration for the era where queerness in media was something that had to be kept secret, and using that against the film as some sort of “gotcha” isn’t the move you think it is.

And, yes, Tom and Brad suck as people. We don’t have to debate that, I agree wholeheartedly. But this constant dumping on older fans for.. cherishing an old thing that meant a lot to them for extremely specific reasons? That really sucks.

(the gatekeepy older fans can rot though)

Like let’s be 100% real here: every adaptation of these books is deeply flawed because the books themselves are deeply flawed. Not just structurally, they have serious problems regarding race, sexuality, women, children… Anne did not create a perfect foundation to work with, and she herself was an extremely flawed and often problematic person. And no matter how much you want to imagine that the tv show is divorced from all that.. it never will be. And that’s not your responsibility or mine to contend with any of it. It is a piece of media. It has no bearing on you as an individual.

I guess what I’m saying is that this series is nearing its 50th (!!!) birthday, and we as fans are very fortunate to have not only this incredible television series, but two iconic films (yes, QotD is iconic but in like.. an ironic, highly camp way), a musical of.. dubious but magical quality, and not one or two, but SIX stunning comic adaptations.. I just think it’s time to stop pitting the show against the movie when it’s all part of this massive, deeply flawed yet incredibly beautiful, wonderfully queer body of work.

[indiegowrites]

i'm asking between 28-31 in that ask game I WANNA KNOWWW

28.) What is one thing you would like to see explored more in TMNT art/fics?

APRIL O'NEIL.

So often April just gets completely sidelined—or, if she is involved, it's to a much lesser extent than the main four are. I feel like a lot of people forget that April is, for all intents and purposes—outside of 2012—their sister. She has as much a role in their family dynamic as the guys do.

Let's look at Rise, which is the iteration where she has the biggest role as an active family member IMO. In the final episode alone, she's all but verbally confirmed to be a member of the Hamato clan.

For instance, look at the usage of "it's us" here—they are a group. You either take all of them, or you get none of them.

Note the fact that her sequence in the battle against Shredder takes place in the very middle, between Raph and Mikey's sequences. Moreso, think about the way she appears from behind Raph's copy. It's a move that's VERY reminiscent of what Raph just previously did with Leo hardly 15 seconds prior.

She then has an entire battle sequence against him, which is, by the way, SO sick. This little move she and Karai do is topped only by Leo and Raph's teleport segment.

She's with the entire family (plus Casey, my beloved!!!!!!!) when they launch their final attack on him!!!!

Hell, SHE'S the one who holds the spear with Karai! You know, the guys biological great-great-great however many greats grandmother?

I could talk for HOURS about April's connection with Karai, the guys, and the Hamato clan in general, and its usage of cementing her role as their sister in all but blood—but this is only the first question and I've already rambled for too long HAHAHA.

I want more April! Outside of Rise, inside of Rise, wherever, however, I don't care. Give me more April O'Neil. Stop sidelining her. She is a Hamato, just as much as the guys are.

29.) What is one headcanon that you have?

I see a lot of transfem 2012!Leo passed around, and I genuinely do subscribe to that—but my main headcanon is that 2012!Donnie is also genderqueer (whether that be transfem, nonbinary, or whatever else). Their relationship with April and their whole dynamic takes on an entirely different light when you view it through that lense, and becomes a lot more fascinating than...whatever is going on in canon.

(Sidebar, but Rise!Leo is transmasc. That's not even a headcanon, I fully believe that to be a genuine part of his character.)

30.) What is one common headcanon that you reject?

Not really rejecting, per se, as I believe that any headcanon can be true if you do enough mental gymnastics (#transfem12!donnie WOOOO), but my own take on Rise!Leo's sexuality is a lot more ambiguous than I know a lot of people go for. He's a pretty large kin of mine, and my own sexuality is hardly cut and dry (all I know is that I am queer, and that I don't like putting labels on myself beyond that), so I perceive him kind of in the same boat HAHAHA.

I don't know if this really counts, however, as Rise Leo being queer is hardly a headcanon. That's just...canon. Subtext canon, but canon all the same LMAOOO

Also. Again. That is a trans man. Rise!Leo is transmasculine. I will die on this hill. Argue with the wall.

31.) What is one piece of TMNT canon that you dislike/ignore?

I don't know that I really have any canon that I ignore, to be honest. I think that every TMNT canon is enjoyable in its own way, and that includes the more...let's go with controversial media, like the Bayverse, or Next Mutation,

There are some comics that I just couldn't really get into, but that's more of an ADHD thing than an active dislike.

[ijustthinkhesneat]

I am about to be so real.

I fucking hate DC comics.

Like have they given us Dick Graysons butt? Yes. Jason Todd’s thunder thighs? Yes. Damian being teeny tiny? Yes. Tim being a bi gremlin? Yes.

But you know the fuck what. I simply cannot get over their aversion to men having problems and like dealing with it in a healthy way. Why is modern Bruce literally the worst person ever?

And I don’t mean in WFA or fanfic or cute little cartoons. Why in the Batman Comic series is Bruce one of the worst people ever? Bruce “I care about kids who were hurt like me and want to try and give them a better life” Wayne has fully morphed into Bruce “Teehee I beat my children and blame them when sociopaths that I enable hurt them” Wayne.

Like literally fuck off. It’s not even just that. The whole Red Robin arc when Dick is just “wow my brother is having a really hard time. I’m gonna call him crazy, take away the thing that’s been helping him to stabilize and give it to someone who tried to kill him multiple times and is consistently verbally abusive towards him. That will be really good for him.”

Literally what the fuck. Don’t even get me started about tarantula or Damian dying or any interaction between Bruce and Jason.

Like I’m just so fucking tired of this company peddling media about how it’s normal and right to forgive people who habitually abuse you. How it normalizes unsafe and unstable relationships between men.

And a huge part of this is because they just write this shit for shock value. Like what horrible thing can we run these characters through and never talk about ever again just so people will talk about it. Remember that like 3 comic long shit show of Dick getting brainwashed by the fucking Joker? Like it’s literally Dick beating the shit out of his brothers and being like I don’t know you and I don’t care and then it’s just like haha back to normal everything is great now.

I fucking hate it. It’s bad writing, it’s an irresponsible narrative about how trauma effects men and I’m just tired.

I really do like the fandom too. I think DC fans have created a lot of safe spaces for queer people, people of color and people with disabilities. But so much of what the fandom runs on is just so far from canon. I know tons of people irl who have never read a release post new 52. And I know some people who have never read a DC comic period cause they saw a glimpse of the toxic waste in there and noped out.

Like I know I’m just some guy on the internet but seriously if your canon comic material is so bad that a very large portion of you fanbase feel they can’t read it or would rather write there own story that just completely changed your characters you need to take a long look at what you are producing. Dick maybe being bi in Gotham Knights is cool. The rep for a character that has been coded as queer for a very long time is cool. But representation is in fact second to writing a good story and having good characters and DC is failing spectacularly at both right now.

[jesncin]

Hello!! I saw yalls lunar boy post (which made me so extremely happy btw, genuinely got teary eyed while reading it) and it said that yall did a lot of research into queer indonesian history and media? If yall dont mind could you link some of those? Im studying up on queer indonesian history myself and struggling to find good resources 😅 ofc all of these are /nf!! Feel free to ignore me and im so sorry for bothering yall 🙏🙏

Not a bother at all, and I'm super happy to hear that the Lunar Boy Queer Escapism comic made you so happy! 💜 Ooh yes there's a ton of sources. From the top of my head:

Creating Spaces for Dialogue: Exploring Queer Cinema in Southeast Asia. An extremely thorough analysis and catalog of queer cinema throughout SEA, with a very robust Indonesian section. My buddy Gris did the research for this and they're very dedicated to this sort of stuff! The Kontinentalist in general has fantastic articles.

Queer Indonesia Archive. An incredible digital collection archiving the lives of queer Indonesians. There's magazines, posters, photos, newspaper clippings, and more! I've talked to and met some of the people working on this project and they're very passionate about memory preservation.

Beyond the Binary: Two Bissu Defend Their Roots in Sulawesi. New Naratif has some good articles covering queer Indonesian lives. I think personal interviews and their reporting are their strong points. I've illustrated for them a couple of times (all queer related things lol). Looks like their website is down at the moment but will be back in May!

Vice Indonesia has some great stuff like their video on Lengger Lanang, Bunda Mayora, and more! I recommend Madame X Memories: The Rise and Fall of Indonesian Queer Cinema.

Bissu A Frame of Diversity. A recent video on the Bissu of Sulawesi. I consider it extremely important to be able to hear from Bissu themselves, since most resources are by white anthropologists who often misconstrue queer Indonesian culture.

The writings of Nurdiyansah Dalidjo. He writes in Indonesian (sorry not in English, my language barrier self uses a mix of google translate and my own Indonesian to read his stuff), but the work he does is invaluable. Whether it's personal reflections on his life, or covering the lives of other queer people, it's all fantastic writing. He did a series "Queer di Masa Lansia" covering elder queer people that is very much worth a read. He's active in waria spaces, working together with transfemme lower class people. I've met him, he's very nice to me :( Idk why :'((

So I hope this is helpful! Early on when I did research for Lunar Boy I reached out to academics on queer Indonesian identities and while some of it was helpful (bless Dédé Oetomo for giving me the time of day and answering my questions), I've learned it was more valuable and enriching to find material that talks more directly with queer people. Stuff that isn't filtered through a scholarly lens or bias. If there's any takeaway I can give, it would be that.

[radios-universe]

how come you like heartstopper and not romance? is it that you like the idea of romance but not the real thing? did you say romance as in you just don't like being involved in it yourself?

i have no idea what post this might be referring to or maybe just in general but i probably have talked about this so here we go!

fun ask to get tbh i Do talk about this a lot

short answer: you’re right, i enjoy consuming romance media (especially queer media) because i love the idea of romance…. however, when i personally have gotten too close to it in the past, i just freak out.

no matter how much i think i want it, my brain and my body just shut down when i get too close… and then the aftermath of that can feel pretty shit! bc usually i’m just annoyed at myself in some weird way, as if i didn’t just experience the same thing as i did last time, and the time before….

LONGER answer:

in terms of heartstopper, of course there are aro/ace characters represented (i mean, come on, duh, even alice themself) but we all know it’s a very romance centric show/comic

i’ve never been able to define if it’s just… a sense of identity within the characters or just generally being happy for them or…. a whole mix of emotions but!

seeing characters im emotionally attached and invested in get together and be happy is like!!!! drugs!!! idk!!!! and probably the closest thing i’ll get to experiencing that with… another person which seems like a very odd thing to say!!!

but that kind of excitement is something i guess i could never feel with a relationship of my own so… living vicariously through characters like the ones in heartstopper actually really helps me with aromanticism? it’s odd! and that def doesn’t go for everyone but it’s at least what happens for me

to expand on the queer media comment too, i’ll consume queer media that even might not represent aro/ace people at all! and still feel that same fulfilment!

if you take a story about a character realising they’re gay, people will focus on them realising they feel attraction for the same sex. i mean, that’s what it is at face value.

but an equally important part of the representation for gay characters is the realisation that they are not attracted to the opposite sex. and THAT i can relate to.

when representation for aro/ace people is this sparse, you get pretty used to finding representation in people you don’t really expect to. and that’s also what heartstopper does for me, while it fulfils my desire for romance through me living vicariously, it also represents me, not just in its aro/ace characters, but in every queer journey! because there’s always a sneaky hint of aro/ace representation anywhere as long as we can do something about it! hah

[ohnoitstbskyen]

(kindly leave the person in the screenshot alone. I have blocked them, I don't want to interact with them, and neither should you, especially not to "defend" me)

I'm getting quite tired of seeing this nonsense, so let's do a quick summary post in case I need it later.

STEP 1: Platinum Games screws the absolute pooch on Bayonetta 3, pissing off their fan-base and gravely disappointing a lot of queer fans by swerving Bayonetta into a fairly out of nowhere romantic relationship with previously-mostly-comic-relief charming idiot character Luka. It's pretty universally panned as a dumb move at best, and downright hostile to the game's most passionate fanbase at worst.

STEP 2: A subset of fans use this bad game decision as a reason to start denying that the Bayonetta franchise has queer text or subtext at all. They argue, explicitly, that because Bayonetta ended up in a male/female relationship then she cannot be queer, and that her queerness can only exist or be considered a valid interpretation of her character if she ends up in a same-sex relationship. This is, by the extremely literal definition of the term, bi-erasure and a form of biphobia.

This is not all or most of the criticism of Bayonetta 3, but it is some of it. I see it happening live on social media, I have to block a few people because of it, and it boils my piss, to be quite frank.

STEP 3: Ty Galiz-Rowe, a nonbinary bisexual transmasc games writer, notices this tendency too, and pens a piece for Gayming Magazine called "Bayonetta 3 is bringing out people’s biphobia in a big way" which you can read here. In the piece, he voices a criticism of this tendency, and cites the work of a few other writers, including some who are bisexual themselves.

Those writers don't much appreciate the criticism, and Galiz-Rowe has a fairly civil discussion with them on Twitter about it that, as far as I can tell, ends amicably, with Galiz-Rowe admitting they wrote some of the piece with too much anger and directed some unfair criticisms. I do not believe the piece itself has been edited or amended, but Galiz-Rowe discussed some reflections about it on their personal twitter.

STEP 4: I retweet the article, because yeah, I have seen this biphobia going around and it annoys me too, and I think Galiz-Rowe did a good job putting words to the upset. I write a short thread getting rather heated about people denying the queer subtext (actually screw "subtext" it is text) of Bayonetta 2 because she didn't end up with Jeanne in 3. I direct this thread very specifically at people making the argument that "if Bayonetta had a straight relationship then she can't be queer" because that is, by the extremely literal and obvious definition of the term, biphobia.

STEP 5: People who can't separate disagreement from abuse, and who absolutely refuse to learn enough reading comprehension to understand when a thread is or isn't about them, decide to reach the head-ass conclusion above and have been tagging me with their imaginary grievances since October.

It is quite annoying, and I've had enough of ignoring the casual insults, so here's a post I can link to if someone asks about it in the future.

[meruz]

another ask post

i mean i also read it because a friend whos rly into queer SFF fiction circles recced it but she did kinda lead with "the writer used to write hs fanfic...tasmyn..taz...?" to which i replied

of COURSE I read the locked tomb because i heard taz had written a book. of course. ill consume most any media made by a beloved homestuck bnf. thats also why i played undertale. and read like..snotgirl. and idk... watched the new dub of neon genesis evangelion.

if u made homestuck fanwork 10 years ago and havent even made it since chances are I still remember and I love you for it.

sdlkfhsg its funny you sensed that because that drawing did in fact start kinda more........ well, I'd be lying if I said my hands never wrought a drawing toeing over the pg-13 line LOL...

NOT to say i have a secret stash of porn or anything. in general im more interested in the implication of sexuality or mature themes over any explicit depiction. like everything i draw is so softcore itd almost feel silly to make a nsfw acc for anything.

but im not rly jumping to post anything on main either bc i get the sense i have a lot of kids in my social media following. it varies from site to site and fandom to fandom but the themes in my work often circle around childhood, coming of age etc and in general i like stories about kids so the fandoms i draw for have a lot of kids in them. even stuff like IT (stephen king) which is about kids but isn't necessarily for kids.. there were a lot of kids in that fandom lol.

actually thats why ive been censoring swears in comics lately because the tmnt fandom comes across to me as a little young...IDK I've had MULTIPLE people ask me what "sodomize" means because of the joke in this post and I'm like... I Cannot be the one to explain this to you. you have to look it up on your own klfsdhsdg like i wouldn't be doing this if i were doing a comic for mgs or even homestuck wherein the characters textually swear constantly LOL but sometimes u gotta change tacks depending on the faces u see in the crowd yknow.

i HAVE been thinking abt drawing nsfw of sunspot/richard rider/kobak from x-men red just because that comic seemed to be really asking for it. who knows.. if the need rly arises maybe my separate account policy will change.

its rly more a matter of the fact that i havent read/watched much of any other iterations... im sure id like most lol. I like most things related to my interests regardless of quality. i rly like the marvel ultimate alliance games for instance. sometimes seeing my fave guy is enough he doesnt have to be well written LOL. i dont exactly have a wealth of free time tho thats the real impediment.

i did watch the 2007 movie on new years eve and found it quite charming overall. and i have read about 30-40 issues between the mirage and idw comics. still feels like im barely scratching the surface but i liked em. i rly want to read all the sophie campbell stuff bc i think her work is interesting. jason aaron will be a mixed bag i think lmao. i say as the worlds biggest Wolverine and the X-Men (2011) fan.

hmm this is kinda hard bc i feel like i naturally draw very loose and the hard part for me is tightening it up. maybe some suggestions tho...

1) hand excercises. i think its easy to forget this when many artists sit in front of the computer all day but drawing is a physical activity u do with ur actual...bodys...muscles lol. if u feel urself tightening up it might help to strech (any google search for "artist hand excercises" should yield good results) or do a page of loose practice strokes like..big circles. long lines. scribbles. that kinda thing. whatever feels good for ur hand. this is also just good to do as a general warm up before u sit down for any drawing sesh.

2) draw further away from the canvas. as a general rule...when ur painting traditionally you do the big strokes with your whole arm outstreched and a long handled brush. and when you do the details its smaller wrist movements and a shorter handled brush. so it might help to take a step back or push back from ur chair a little.. or hold ur tablet a little further away. and hold your pen further away from the nib.

3) change mediums / brush types. some brushes and mediums are more suited to loose sketching and some more inclined towards detail work. so changing ur tool could help. also! i personally have this problem where sometimes if im using a brush i feel really familiar with the pressure to make a "good" "finished" "perfect" drawing is greater... if i want to force myself to loosen up ill switch to a tool i dont use as often so it feels like the pressure is off. a lot of times for me this is switching from digital to traditional. but sometimes its switching from a small pen to a big marker. or a smooth pen to a textured one. or a nice brush to a shitty dried up marker.

but also every body is different so i dont think these tips will work for everyone. u should listen to what ur body and mind tell u and how drawing feels to you

bro just sign up and set it up i dont think theres much to it... i dont rly think too much abt my itch.io store because its digital goods so u just upload the file and let it do its thing. no distribution work needed on ur part. youll notice i barely even advertise my itch unless i have smth new on there lol.. its easy. but good luck!!!

idk if im the best person to ask this im more a comic fan than i am a comic professional... a comic hobbist.

well. scott mcclouds understanding comics and making comics are good books on the craft. i think i had to buy them for a class in art school once.

other than that idk just keep at it. comics are really laborious i think for a lot of people the hardest part is sitting down and doing it.

i think a lot of people have a very instinctive understanding of how to read comics and what they look like so whatever you think seems like good way to tell the story you have in mind, its probably right. if u get stuck, study comics that have done something similar. most people in comics are relatively self taught and actually it can be problematic bc you can tell when a lot of comic artists are all copying the same like 5 old white guys LMAO. but on the flip side if you make sure to reference and study broadly your comics will almost assuredly feel unique.

sorry im responding to this anyways. this is just a really nice ask. i like when people reference my older work bc i feel like sometimes theyre subtly implying it wasnt very good LMAOOO. but its true! at least compared to the work i make now ^^ and the fact that im still making art is whats keeping me from being embarassed abt how much of my old art just floats around online lmao im never ashamed to be growing and learning. isnt that a nice thought <3

[hiveworks]

OBELISK - Interview with Ashley McCammon

September 2023

The year is 1908. Evelyn Reuter is dealing with the affairs of her deceased father in her hometown of Manhattan. While she takes solace in the homes of her queer friends, grief presses in around her until one day... the mysterious Margot appears in her life.

Obelisk is a 16+ gothic horror/romance comic about vampires and lesbianism. In celebration of Obelisk's return from hiatus, we asked author Ashley McCammon @draculings for an interview.

What was the spark behind making Obelisk? Why a webcomic versus another style of publishing (print, self pub, etc.)?

My original inspiration for Obelisk was in my frustration with lesbian vampire movies - there are so many of them, and none made for a lesbian audience, let alone involving butch women! I wanted to tell that story, and celebrate that point of view. It’s similar to why I chose to set the comic in 1908 - the early 1900s are something of a transitional period, something not explored often when we aren’t talking WWI or the Titanic. I wanted to tell a story about the radical change happening in just a few, unusual people’s lives, in this transitory period. As for it being a webcomic - as a young artist, I always wanted to make one! It’s such an accessible, experimental way to tell a story, where even the website can be part of the atmosphere. Making a deeply atmospheric, spooky comic, that feels the most fitting.

For new readers, how would you describe your two lead women?

Evelyn is muscling through her day to day when we meet her - she’s putting on a brave face, or one that she hopes exudes confidence - but really feels like she has no idea what she’s doing. (The impostor syndrome is incredibly strong - something I think a lot of people can understand!) She’s been left with this enormous responsibility on top of the grief of losing her dad, and having that job and security is pressed on her as something she should be grateful for. She’s absorbed that idea and really hasn’t taken a moment to breathe - or to consider what she really wants for herself. Margot is quite the opposite - she’s a vampire who lives only for her own desires, a hedonist who’s been floating through existence that way for as long as she can remember. For all of her self indulgence though, she’s never connected much with anyone. She holds herself far above people, only ever showing them this facade of a regular person. It’s very arrogant - but it must also be very lonely! (Not that she has anyone to admit that to… yet ;)   )

What can you tell us about what's lurking for Evelyn in the upcoming chapter?

Evelyn makes a very bold choice at the end of chapter two, one that scares her - putting her own desires first, impulsively, in a way that will change everything and surprise even Margot herself. (Patrons read way ahead and will get to see this very soon, and the time she spends with Margot throughout chapter 3 as a result!)

Obelisk is a traditionally inked piece, with some digital final touches. What guided your decision to make this a traditional comic versus a digital one?

It really wasn’t a choice, to be honest - traditional media is where all my passion for making art lives! Obelisk is drawn and inked traditionally, and finished with Copic markers and the occasional paint pen or colored pencil for that killer red highlight ;)

What are some of the challenges in working this way? What do you find rewarding?

It can be tedious to scan, piece together and clean up my pages, but ultimately I have a fairly streamlined process for it and I don’t mind. I love having a physical final product to look at and hold when I’m done with it, it gives me a sense of accomplishment and connection to my work!

Do you have any tips for other comic artists on resuming a series after an extended hiatus?

Put your health first, and spend time reconnecting to your story before diving back in. It’s easy to feel obligated by the hamster wheel of social media and garnering attention, but your own connection to your work in the long-term is what matters most. Obelisk wouldn’t be the same story if I hadn’t had that downtime, and it’s off better for it!

What are some comics that inspire you? Do you have any reading recommendations for fans of Obelisk?

As far as webcomics go, I’m a big fan of Tiger Tiger, Hemlock, Barbarous, and Heirs of the Veil!

What is the best way for fans of Obelisk to support you?

The very best way is through my Patreon! Patrons have immediate access to the next six months of Obelisk pages (that’s my whole buffer!) as well as tons of behind the scenes work as I develop the next chapter and share work-in-progress shots right from my drawing table.

Obelisk updates Wednesdays and can be read for free at obeliskcomic.com 🩸Be sure to white list the site on your ad blocker and follow @draculings for more info and updates!

[shannonsketches]

I think something that I like about Goku and why I defend Goku's increasing societal detachment so much is that I think it's something I witness a lot in both myself and other creatives, especially in professional fields.

I'm a professional story artist, I've wanted to work in comics and animation for as long as I've been alive, and that has made me very Strange in terms of what people in non-creative fields think I should want/like/be interested in my age (at any age). I remember in my 20s I was talking to my niece about a show she was into, that I really liked as well, and she told me she liked talking to me because I was like a big kid (HIGH compliment from a 10 year old). Her hype is not shared by the elders aklsdaj

My older family members think that it's really weird that I care about cartoons and comics and animated film as much as I do, and have joked that they hope it pans out so I never have to get a "real" job. The fact that I am aroace and have no interest in dating, marrying, or having children also lends itself to the idea that I'm somehow naive and childish. But the fact is, I'm a perfectly capable, independent adult happily living on my own, and my applied skillset in my field is pretty damn good.

Everyone around me in non-creative spaces keeps expecting I'll grow up eventually. But this is me grown up. I'm still learning and growing, obviously, I'll be doing that for the rest of my life, but it's my choice to remain silly despite the horrors. It's my calculated decision, based on my lived experience, to work hard and pursue my passions at a level that has and will again bring me joy and success.

But it's not just me! This is a very standard experience for a creative professional, especially queer and/or neurodivergent creative professionals. Especially those of us who work in teen, youth, or children's media, and who consume media in those ratings as a result (or as an extension of things we loved as kids, and things that inspired us to pursue this path to begin with).

So, as I get more years in the field, and the more I observe that gap in worldviews, Goku's writing feels more genuine to the experience of someone in a dedicated pursuit of their passion (written by people who've built careers out of that exact experience). That's a hard thing to explain to someone who's never experienced a fanatic drive to do something they consider insane and impossible (like making art your career, for example), because someone with different priorities is never going to think that's a valuable use of your time. But you do, and so you do it (and it is -- and they don't get why you invest so much time in it but they always think the results are impressive??)!

And it does take luck. And it does take community. And you can't do it alone. But that doesn't make it any less important to put in the work and push yourself to keep being better, so that when those opportunities do line up, you're ready for them and then some.

The older I get, the more Goku feels very anecdotal and reflective to me, on both Toriyama and Toyotarou's part. Just because you've achieved great success doesn't mean your foundations aren't important. Just because you've been lucky doesn't discredit your hard work and determination. Just because you're highly skilled doesn't mean you're above making mistakes or being a team player. Just because you're not what people want or expect you to be doesn't mean you're stupid. Just because you choose kindness and joy where someone else would choose cynicism and spite doesn't mean you're childish or naïve. And being flawed doesn't make you a bad person, it just makes you a person.

It just feels very Real and Relatable, in that sense, and I like it a lot.

[bromcommie]

🤩🎯

Hi, thanks for the ask! :) 🤩 What led to your interest in the fandom?

Oof, boy. So, I mean, I was a geeky little kid and grew up loving the Spiderman and X-Men comics, so my interest kind of naturally progressed with the MCU boom of 2009 or whatever. As for Cap, I have to admit I didn't like him all that much at first - I'd only seen him in The Avengers and I think like many other people I kind of just viewed him as The Square Old American Imperialist Guy (thanks, Joss Whedon😒). It was only after seeing CATWS and retroactively CATFA that the floodgates opened. The interest was kind of on and off for a while, but it definitely spiked with time and I got into the Cap, WS, Black Widow and some other comics as well after that.

Idk when exactly I got into Stucky, because I distinctly remember having a phase of "why can't guys just be really really really good friends???" (I know, I know.) but between then and CA: CW I definitely fell in love with both characters and a) kind of went through my own awakening lol, b) started rapidly developing an unrelated but helpful interest in early and mid-20th century history and c) watching a shit ton of Cap edits on YouTube because I've always liked vidding. I eventually started making some of my own vids and fanart when my brain just woke up one morning and clicked into "oh shit. oh, not only is the premise of this story compelling on several levels, but these motherfuckers are in love in love" mode, and inevitably that also led to me starting to read fanfiction.

And that was just...a fucking revelation and a half. Because suddenly here were all these people writing heartfelt, compelling stories—sometimes heavy as shit, sometimes downright hilarious and sometimes just publishing quality—about everything ranging from grief and guilt and trauma to bodily autonomy and disability and queerness and self-worth to relationships with faith and nationality and community and intersectional identity to beliefs and morality and perseverance to violence and war and systems of oppression to different kinds of love and devotion etc etc etc I could go on literally forever. All set to a sprawling love story, all in a historical context I was interested in, all with about a million different perspectives you would never actually get to see on screen or on the page. I also fell in with a bunch of very passionate, nerdy queer people in college after, all of whom loved comics characters and shared these interests and had a lot to say on the overlap of the two, and well. I never really stood a chance, after that.

I guess ultimately what really drew me to it was the potential of taking material that was (I'm sorry, but let's be real) sometimes painfully mediocre-to-plain bad but with a great premise, and then projecting and exploring some really interesting and grounded and even vulnerable topics through the very fun sandbox that the more fantastical, epic aspects of these stories present—often in a subverted way and with mouthpieces (read: Stereotypical Empowered Bulky Macho Men) that you don't get to see in that light in mainstream media. And the Cap fandom really had (and has to this day!) an abundance of talented, curious people throwing themselves into that wholeheartedly and with such wonderful passion and creativity and care. So engaging with that as a hobby can be really lovely and inspiring and cathartic. And sometimes it's just plain lighthearted fun! I think the older I get the more I can really appreciate that.

Also, not to be super sappy or make it sound more serious than it is, but stories about goddamn superheroes overcoming painful, fucked up real life situations and aspiring to do and be better were a great comfort to nerdy Little Me, and so was getting to talk to people about the things I saw in them that meant something to me. I think Steve's character and origin—and the perspectives on it I got from other people—were just a big deal to my baby teenage brain during a time when I was starting to develop a real life social and political awareness and a sense of all the ways in which the things we do and say and how we stand up for each other matter. And as a grown-ass adult today, I still cherish that. And I cherish that even though I've matured and evolved and so have my other interests, I still got to come on here in the year of our lord 2024 when this particular hyperfixation suddenly came out of its long winter slumber and indulge in a comforting, creative hobby and stretch my writing muscles, and that I still got to find people to play in that sandbox with in a way that is extremely satisfying.

So there you go, and I'm so sorry. I have a lot of thoughts and feelings on this. Make of that rambling essay what you will.

🎯 Do you have a writing milestone you’re working towards?

In terms of fandom works, I really don't. I started writing fic just as a fun hobby for myself, and I never really thought of it in terms of goals like I do the original work I try to write, just because I think that'd probably take some of the fun out of it. I'm in a bit of a rut at the moment though, so I'd really like to be able to break out of it soon and post the next few chapters of orpheus I've been trying to work on, if that counts!

[prettycottonmouthlamia]

So there was a conversation about queer representation in video games, and this got said in response to the perception that lesbians are more represented in video games compared to other LGBT identities (particularly gay men):

"Lesbians are fetishized by straight men, so that's why they're more common"

I'm going to be honest and say it's never really sat right with me from that point on. Not because I don't think there isn't some truth to the matter, but because I think it lacks a lot of nuance and a lot of much more important feminist thought. So let's just, break down my thoughts alright?

What does it mean to fetishize lesbians in this situation?

This is actually something I think is worth examining in a lot more detail, because when you talk about lesbian characters in media, there's usually one of two responses from predominantly cishet men regarding them:

The character(s) in question are vehemently disliked, often getting little attention, or as is common in fandom circles, having their character and the content surrounding them relentlessly criticized.

Strong affirmations that the characters involved are Definitely Not Gay and that it's reaching to insist they are.

This, to me, is kind of strange? It's in obvious contradiction to the idea that lesbian characters are getting the most representation. So what exactly is going on?

In truth, both responses highlight some truth, and to understand this, we need to look at the primary way men fetishize lesbians, which is through porn. When it comes to porn, often there is not an overt need to deal with the people involved as wholly unique individuals with their own feelings and thoughts and what not. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, porn actors are sex workers and that's going to be the result of that. It's just kind of a natural result and porn can handle this either gracefully or not.

But as an interesting side result, this means that it becomes very easy to decouple the actors away from the content. The second reaction becomes a dominant factor here: it becomes very easy to view the women involved as being available and often the primary way this developers from there is the idea of performance: a girlfriend and her friend performing for the boyfriend, or maybe two girlfriends etc. Now, again, there's nothing strictly wrong with that in concept as a sex act as long as everyone involved is aware and consenting and happy with it, but it's how it crops up in regards to how lesbians are viewed.

Lesbians are only tolerated when they're viewed to be available to men, and are often violently disliked when that's shown to not be the case. The world has not stopped oppressing lesbians for being overt in their affections towards other women just because of porn videos. This often has the effect that lesbian characters in media are rarely very explicit in order to preserve that illusion, or the much less comical and honestly perhaps somewhat grosser option I call the IntSys method where you just make your characters all bisexual.

To be clear, I find this really disrespectful and cowardly on principle. It really illustrates the extent that the creatives involved just see bisexuality as a convenience and not actually its own important identity. It becomes a way to still sell your lesbians to men, and frankly, eugh. Lesbians and bisexuals really deserve better than that and IntSys are still in fact tremendous cowards.

Fetishization does not correlate to representation either.

Guess who else is also fetishized by straight men its trans women babyyyyy! This is a very known quantity and its curious how that hasn't also caused a similar explosion in the number of trans women in video games. Actually what it has seemingly actually resulted in is more of the "trap" archetype, the transphobic and homophobic character who exists primarily as a joke.

Which is honestly a nice segway into the next point.

Lesbians do not necessarily represent a threat to masculinity.

If you wanted to know why so many lesbians in media are extremely femme and often conform to straight women beauty standards, this is it. It all has to do with masculinity. In fact, this really ties the knot with the problems with both lesbian representation in media (the absolute dearth of masculine women and butches (sorry that Genshin character is not butch)), the lack of representation of trans women, and the lack of representation of gay and bisexual men.

To transgress against masculinity in general has a habit of making you way more hated in our society which worships masculinity as a golden standard. If a woman is too masculine and is trying too hard to be like a man, she's often virulently hated. For trans women, the rejection of masculinity and the embracing of femininity makes them beloathe, and for gay and bisexual men, having sex with men is embracing what is seen as the female sexual role. We can even circle back here to the fetishization and lesbians and the anger of exclusion: it's okay for women to kiss each other and have sex as long as a guy is involved and enjoying it (and very bad if that's not the case). That doesn't even work with gay men, even though statistically more men are enjoying it.

There's an entire thesis that could be written about the stigmatization of the sexual role of the bottom in homosexuality, or on the eventual estrangement of the femme gay men in queer society. Ideas of masculinity are inextricably tied to straight men's perception of gay men, and unfortunately, gay men are often viewed as directly transgressive. A straight man being hit on by a gay man is often viewed as a direct assault on that straight man's masculinity, and as a result, gay men are just directly hated a lot more. There's a reason violence towards gay men is still staggeringly common. It's not like the video game industry is making any progressive waves in combating any of this either.

But there's one point as well in addition to this I would feel remiss not to bring up:

Are we really laying at the feet of a lot of good, honest queer representation in video games the burden of appealing to fetishistic straight men?

This one in particular bothers me because it is actually worth noting that there is a lot of lesbian representation that has nothing to do with fetishization at all. Not because it isn't sexual in any way, but because its created by queer lesbians wanting to see themselves in the media. So one must ask if there's something else involved.

For me, I have a general pet theory that's called Cluster Behavior of Exclusionary Qualities. The gist of it is that I've noticed that outsiders to a community often do not have one single defining trait that separates them from the majority, but often have more of them. The primary reason for this is that people who are already excluded will generally start to re-examine a lot of the other norms they take for granted. But I think another aspect of it as well is that the more reasons you have for not being accepted, generally the more it just makes you stubborn and angry. What are they going to do, exclude you harder? Ultimately, the industry is still really, really sexist and it's harder for women to even make a foothold in the industry at all to begin with. You're not fighting any less uphill, so why not just make something authentic to yourself and resist a lot of the bullshit?

This isn't to say there aren't gay men in the video game industry, there absolutely are, but I think the pressure to conform is probably a lot stronger, because acceptance really is just right around the corner. Sometimes it is easier to just go with the flow when its beneficial, and I don't judge for that its a bitch of a world and we all gotta eat somehow.

So what do I think at the end of all this?

I think that the fetishization of lesbians actually results in us getting a lot less authentic, well-written lesbian characters and stories, and what it does produce are a lot of ambiguously written characters and token attempts at inclusion that often fall flat. I do think it's likely even then that still outweighs a lot of other representation in video games, but I think there are much stronger factors to explain that.

At the end of the day, we're all fighting for fucking scraps out here. We're not going to get better representation by taking jabs at each other about this. But maybe, one day, we can live in a world where a Final Fantasy 19 has two women absolutely destroying it so I no longer need to see the straight couple from 16.

[starfiretruther]

i feel like ever since comics left the silver age there has been this bizarre nearly fetishistic desire to associate robins with this stripping of innocence that has to do with you fundamentally still seeing them as the child robin figure for it to be shocking. like killing robins, having them be in these toxic relationships, showing them being sexualized (often by notably older chars) is all part of this really uncomfortable still ongoing trend. and i’m not saying that as robins grow up they can’t experience sex and sexual exploration or dark themes, i actually think ntt’s take on this was really honoring of dick and explored what it would be like to grow up under the robin mantle and also what it would take to come into one’s own identity afterwards, but usually this trend makes me really uncomfortable, like how dick has been written to be sexually assaulted multiple times (ive never seen it done tactfully), or how more than one adaptation has harley make a comment about how much dick has grown up (ew), or how they wanted to kill tim drake with aids in the 90s (they instead went with extrano). i guess while there is nothing technically wrong with making an adult male character a little sexy, the modern obsession with dick’s ass feels like an extension of this to me still. like dc and it’s fans don’t know how to be normal about robins. idk if that makes sense or maybe i project too much but i just really wish there was more skill and intention with writing robins and less schlock and awe

hm while i don’t disagree i feel like the general ‘stripping of innocence’ happened to most child or at least happy go lucky characters (e.g. bucky barnes), not just robin. Robin stands out cuz they’ve been the most recognisable child/sidekick hero in media. Comics in general took a turn to darker (less fun) “serious” stories in the 80s. Robin in particular has been a target for hate since the 60s because fans thought he made batman campy and gay (there was the whole seduction of the innocent thing where they said batman and robin were coded queer messaging trying to indoctrinate the children). I think rather than Dick, Jason got hit with the most ire of the editorial and fans and when stories kept getting darker and darker, he became an unfortunate victim. Dick (at least in this time period) had a lot of dignity, getting a well-thought out coming of age narrative through nightwing and being firmly cemented as a respectable, reliable adult hero (thanks to the titans and his romance with kory). While comics always had a touch of fanservice, his sexualization really started around the late 90s and had a resurgence during the n52-rebirth era. I think any of his prior sexualization was standard male fantasy stuff (this guy gets all the ladies type thing). I think in Tim’s case they weren’t going for a “let’s destroy his innocence “ thing and more of a way to both modernise him for a contemporary (90s) audience and also distance him far away from the gay allegations (how ironic lol). They still wanted the kid watson to Batman’s brooding sherlock but also just more “normal” so the kids relate. Which is why they made him a cheater etc and i know how tf is that better but they really didn’t want him to be gay fhdjfj. I don’t know much abt the aids story pitch though. Steph and Damian are also better examples of “stripping the innocence” storylines for Robin than Dick and Tim. Steph also had a tragic death, and Damian’s first introduction is as a child assassin (antithesis to innocence). I agree that it’s weird people are so weird abt robins (and child characters in general) but imo it reflects more on an audience’s (and editorial’s) insecurity regarding childish, campy things because why are you mad at the camp medium for being camp? Learn to have some fun LEWSER.

I feel like most dick grayson fans feel so strongly abt this is because they like his prudish and insecure ntt characterisation (and so do i tbh it’s very interesting) and also the multiple SA storylines that a) never got resolved or b) were handled poorly. BUT that dick grayson hasn’t been in comics for a while now. We haven’t seen any acknowledgment from dc’s editorial that dick is a rape survivor, he’s been consistently characterized as a confident metrosexual (eww hate that word) guy both in his civilian and superhero persona (and that agent 37 grayson thing is the biggest culprit here). He’s also retroactively being portrayed as a smooth talking flirt in his robin days now so clearly that’s what they’re going for (imo i think they’re doing what they did with tim to dick's robin just to make him look more “normal” and relatable and straight).

Dick’s robin era is still treated as peak batman&robin era and he’s still a symbol for innocent, “simpler” times. He’s gotten the most grace when transitioning from child to teen to adult hero. On the topic of his sexualization aka the butt issue, it’s only cuz he’s one of the most popular male hero they can sexualize. I genuinely don’t think there’s any malice from the editorial since Dick has been an adult for 40 years now and there’s nothing wrong with sexing up his stories BUT ALSO i get why fans are upset cuz they’re deliberately ignoring his past characterization and sexual history to make him into a more palatable, marketable character. And tbh it’s been going on for long enough that it might as well be his defining character trait now :/ .