#junecourse

[juney-blues]

June Egbert is, and always has been incredibly fascinating to me because of just, how many factors have conspired to make Homestuck fans show their collective transmisogynistic asses.

The main character of Homestuck transitioning is a planned future plot point for the official continuation of homestuck, that was spoiled in advance by a fan making a joke about finding some toblerones Andrew Hussie the author of homestuck hid in a cave.

The current main writers of Homestuck: Beyond Canon have went on record in an AMA confirming that this was indeed always the plan, even before they took up the project.

In spite of these facts, the general consensus among certain homestuck fans seems to be that "June Egbert" is purely a headcanon for the original comic that was "made canon" by a "Toblerone Wish" (a concept that didn't even exist at the time)

For a variety of reasons, the "canonicity" of the postcanon official continuations of homestuck is a mattter of much debate, (though a debate that most homestuck fans seem to err on a side of "it's not canon at all in the slightest," something the writers have feelings on I'm sure.)

All of these factors combined leave the concept of "June Egbert" in a very nebulous place. It's assumed by most to just be an "ascended headcanon" that was shoehorned in, it's a spoiler so it hasn't happened yet in any official media, and the official media it will eventually happen in is regarded by some to be nothing more than glorified fanfic.

If someone is talking about June Egbert, and you don't like the concept of June Egbert, you have your pick of a million different excuses for why she's fake and gay and not worth discussing and bad writing and just the authors doing a gay dumbledore*, paying lip service to representation while actually doing nothing.

And of course, lots of people *don't* like June Egbert! Rather than being introduced as transfem from the start, she's in this nebulous position of discovery where people have to truly reckon with the idea of a "Pre-transition Trans Woman."

You can try to write off *some* of the backlash as transphobia, because obviously not everyone in this fandom is gonna be cool about trans people.

But there's no shortage of fans just dying to tell you about how much they like reading her as transmasc, or the idea of her being nonbinary or genderqueer or genderfluid, or literally anything besides a trans woman. And since they're fine with all those other interpretations, there's obviously no implicit biases driving their distaste for the concept! (if you want to try explaining the concept of "transmisogyny" to people like this you're braver than I.)

you can trust them when they say it's *just* a problem with whether or not it makes sense with the writing, or it just doesn't feel right somehow, or any of the thousands of excuses that this writing situation gives them to just Not Like It.

It's just, so interesting to me. There's not a lot of characters out there that get a trans arc in this way, that leaves room for open denialism and insistence that we have our trans cake and eat it too... Because Homestuck is a timeline spanning multiverse story, lots of people seem to want it to be an alternate timeline thing. Assuring us we can have this character share space with a non-transitioning version of herself and it won't be weird or imply gross things about trans people.

If you ask me it feels like a plotline that'd be really good for exploring some gender horror though, finding your true self and then being demoted to a footnote, an alternate version, because everyone around you likes your pre-transition self more....

Anyway I have no broader point beyond "hey look at this isn't this kinda weird. You don't get this kinda stuff often!"

*side note: it's a little ghoulish I think to compare "a future trans plot point that hasn't been given the chance to even happen yet, in an already famously queer piece of media, from a nonbinary author" to "some stupid shit done by the literal most famous transphobe of all time" but that's perhaps a discussion for later.

[nekropsii]

I know the kids in general aren't your thing but what are your thoughts on june egbert as a whole?

I've seen opinions on her existence be pretty varied (tho I guess more recent years its a widely accepted fanon and uh some ppl treat her as canon when.. she's... not lmao..) so I'm curious on your opinion if you have one!

(I personally don't subscribe to the headcanon but otherwise I don't have any strong feelings about it ppl can do whatever they want forever lmao)

I've been vocal about this previously, but in my opinion, all J. Egbert is good J. Egbert. June, John, Transfem, Transmasc, Transneu, Nonbinary, Genderfluid, Multigender, whatever the fuck, I don't care, have fun. Whatever gender people subscribe to the character isn't my business, and I have zero way of telling what it means to people unless they're being super blatant about it, which... Doesn't actually happen often?

I have no way of telling if people subscribe to transfem!June wholesale because that gives them comfort, or transmasc!John because that gives them comfort, or genderfluid!Egbert because that gives them comfort, or even just... Cis Trans Ally John, because that gives them comfort. These are all things I've seen before. I just choose to assume good faith, as is healthier, and respect whatever OP is tagging. If they're tagging art as June, it doesn't matter if she looks the same as she does in canon, or if she's pre-transition, that's June to them, so I'll tag it as June myself. If they're tagging art as John, I tag it as John. I have no way of knowing what their idea of the sex of this character is, and I'd find it weird to "correct" them, when they could very easily just be drawing a headcanon they've had for years and found major comfort and gender euphoria in. I don't know their life.

I think the way people have been using June's confirmation- not canonization to HS^2/HS:BC, she hasn't appeared yet- as a way to be transphobic in any direction is vile. I think if you use June as a way to be transmisogynistic, you're an asshole and a transphobe. If you use June as a way to be bigoted against trans men, you're an asshole and a transphobe. If you're finding a way to use it to be bigoted against nonbinary or multigender people, you're an asshole and a transphobe. I would sure fucking hope this isn't a controversial statement. There's no good reason to be a bigot. A disagreement over gender headcanons is an especially pathetic reason to reduce yourself to transphobia. Come the fuck on now.

More Discussion Under the Cut:

Miscellaneous thoughts include... 1.) She is not canon to Homestuck proper. This is because every piece of Homestuck media outside of literal Homestuck (2009) itself has been very open about the fact that they are not canon to Homestuck (2009). Homestuck (2009) is canon to Homestuck (2009), and nothing else is. HS:BC is canon to itself. HS^2 is canon to itself. The Homestuck Epilogues is canon to itself. Pesterquest is canon to itself. Hiveswap is canon to itself. They are not canon to Homestuck, though. These aren't condemnations of these pieces of media, nor is it a reduction of the meaning of this form of the character to people, it just needs to be stated that they're not canon to Homestuck. This is by design, and is also a well advertised fact about them. 2.) She was not "always intended", or "always canon". I see a lot of people say that June was being intentionally alluded to since 2009, and... That's just... Really blatantly not the case? Extremely magical thinking happening there. I think if June was supposed to happen in Homestuck, and was allegedly intentionally alluded to in Homestuck constantly... She would have happened in Homestuck? There's nothing wrong with an author getting asked to make a certain gender headcanon canon and then, you know, canonizing it because they think it's cool, nor is there anything wrong with an author realizing that an interesting arc for a specific character would be a gender transition in sequel material. It doesn't have to always be a "This was all planned from the start" situation. As someone who is a writer... That's genuinely just not really how writing works, and it really isn't where Hussie's politics were at during the time. Hell, I know a lot of genders, pronouns, sexualities, races, ethnicities, religions, and disability statuses were changed throughout me working on my own writing projects. They weren't all "Planned from the Start", and there's nothing wrong with that. 3.) June fans, I am so sorry. You all deserve so much more than these years of J.K. Rowling-tier """canonization""". This was said to be something that was totally going to happen... On Twitter... Through a magical Toblerone wish... Several years ago. And nothing has really come of it since. Not even a hint!! That sucks so much. 4.) Not to be blunt, but some people are really misogynistic about her. Transitioning doesn't completely change your personality. It doesn't fix all of your problems and flaws. Growing into femininity doesn't magically make you a ditzy bimbo girly girl whose only personality traits are Cute, Stupid, and Female. That's just fucking weird, dog. The way some people treat her status as a woman reads very... Caliborn-esque...

[crispy-crust]

i've talked about this at lenGth in multiple places but seeinG this has stoked that fire once more so fuck it why not i feel like typinG out a rant actually not believinG in june full stop is fuckinG stupid and shows a huGe lack of understandinG of the story and character as well as a straiGht up disreGard for canon itself if you hc her transmasc the OFFICIAL writers for the OFFICIAL CONTINUATION have said MULTIPLE TIMES that june is canon and was always planned even before the toblerone

sayinG june is "only canon to the epiloGues and beyond canon" also shows that you either did not understand them or just straiGht up didn't read them. aGain, official word

and sayinG or arGuinG that june can/should only be canon in one timeline (meat/candy) is stupid and also kinda just straiGht up disGustinG??? that implies horrible thinGs about trans people actually? usinG roxy as an excuse for this plays into the "you did not understand the story" thinG because if you read candy all the way throuGh you would very much know that roxy is not "just transmasc in meat" a lot of people try to arGue that june and her deadname (i don't wanna say it sorry) can co-exist and that due to doomed timelines anythinG is possible but aGain that's Gross and implies that june isn't the REAL one she's just a possibility that can happen in an alternate timeline to please the trans women and then all the *normal* fans can still have their boy character. it's very apparent they see transfems as an uncomfortable other and they feel that no character or person they love could ever be that. many other arGuments i see are stuff like "she acts like a Guy throuGhout the whole story, people refer to her as a man" and i'm like.... yeah? have you ever met a trans person???? like ever? and then the headcanon-inG of her as transmasc... do you Genuinely believe that this character who is well known for repressinG emotions fiGured out her Gender identity and transitioned before the aGe of the 12? and you think everyone in 2009 just accepted that? seeinG june as transmasc is throwinG canon out of the window and that's a little disrespectful no? don't we think that we should actually take the story itself into consideration when cominG up with headcanons for characters? so much of fandom headcanon culture is just slappinG a label on someone without considerinG how that affects the story or enhances the readinG of the character and i could Go into how this makes transmasc dave also a bit silly cuz a biG part of dave's arc is overcominG his internalized homophobia so havinG him be transmasc kinda messes with that a lot actually. but anyway the point is june is canon. no one in this fandom can read. i'd like to think that when they eventually fully canonize her in bc that'll reduce the discourse but knowinG this fandom it'll just Get worse.

im gonna fly off the handle

[controversialcoven]

I am desprately asking homestuck fans to stop tagging things that are specifically June as John thank you and goodnight

[ultimatelyunassuming]

Fuck i miss when june was a prevalent hc. I miss her sometimes.

[milksrot]

i like June Egbert

[puppetmastery]

its kinda funny the way the junecourse is basically identical to the roxycourse when the epilogues first dropped. someone starts doing weird shit with gender and treats it as a reflection of someone's experiences and personal relationship to society instead of an innate thing and acknowledges that that shit can be different if your life goes differently. so everyone loses their shit because the character changing gender in something literally called "beyond canon" means they're Changed and Ruined and Different. baby they're always different. there is no true canon egbert just as there is no true canon lalonde. we left that shit behind the second we touched that door. john is a boy june is a girl matty is a john that factkins mr.mcconaughey and dyed their hair blonde. these are all equally valid. u people gotta chill. june is fucking awesome just like every jbert before her and every jbert after. you're just mad because she's transgender this time. like people haven't been making genderbends for 15 years. come play toys in the infinity sandbox and enjoy silly girl with a hammer

[uranpyrochlore]

did NOT expect you to be in the notes of a junecourse post of mine hello hai i miss you

hiii bestie

[crappy-homestuck-confessions]

Saw someone say John and June coexisting was transphobic because it meant you were forcing one Egbert to stay closeted and no? Gender fluidity is a thing? Bigender is a thing? There are real life people who are 50/50 on whether to transition? I'm on E but could easily see myself having chosen not to transition and still being happy? Some of the Junecourse feels like nbphobia and transmed rhetoric in disguise.

.

[ephemeralbreakpoint]

why is it that the only thing anyone ever wants to know about me is my thoughts on june egbert. even people who don't Know. why is this the only question anyone ever asks. if i had a nickel for every time i've been approached apropos of nothing all like "PRITHEE, WHAT SAY YOU ABOUT THE JUNECOURSE MY GOOD SIR" i would have three in the past year alone, which is very odd because i am the least noteworthy individual imaginable.

my opinion is thusly: i do not care. at all. even my friends seem to think i have a burning grudge against june, which i kind of wish was true because it's hilarious when they bust out the boss music in my honor when someone mentions her.

but really it is such a silly idea. brother i am harmonia's prototypical catboy. the entire kemonomimi porn genre exists there because of me. can you imagine the horrors i have witnessed. people drawing me as a girl is not even a blip on my radar do you UNDERSTAND

[anonstucks]

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[davekat-sucks]

I feel like the one thing Homestuck has improved on since postcanon was Junescourse.

2019 had June fans harassing people who headcanon John as transmasc or John/June as cis. Transphobes would harass June fans and leave mean comments on June fanart. June fans would to a point insist that June is canon and not liking that made you transphobic.

4 years later and June fans and John fans stay to themselves and like the fanart with the headcanons they prefer.

I feel like Homestuck^2’s pause caused this. It was supposed to make June “canon” (even though postcanon is outside canon, so June would not even be canon, more subjectively canon) and so John couldn’t be “canon” anymore to June fans, not even headcanon lest you be called transphobic.

I hope this new era of “like what you like I don’t care” stays the norm for the rest of the fandom’s existence.

And I’m glad I’m not a guilty gear fan. People are still arguing over bridget’s gender when you shouldn’t care. No real world impact will come from a video game character becoming a trans woman rather than a feminine male.

The Junecourse did lead to a point where an actual trans person was harassed for not liking June as trans. The modern generation would not believe the people they want to defend or push for more representation, would disagree with them. But I do agree we can at least go back to like what we like and respecting others for our preferences. If someone sees John as John and not June. That's fine. If someone takes the June headcanon as trans. That's fine too. If someone sees it as a genderbent, it's fine too. If someone sees June Egbert as a child of someone like JohnVris, JohnRose, Roxygen, Johnrezi, etc. that's also fine.

[intertexts-moving]

beating the junecourse by unaligned nonbinary theytheming jegbert permanently.

[ultimatelyunassuming]

Awwww man june was planned since the beginning of hs2. Thats so wild.

[fite-club]

You: hey are you black? Bc you really should say that.

Them: are you calling me racist?? You're a bitch and I hate you die.

- junecourse

dude really stormed in guns blazing just to tell me to calm down

[ectobiologeezzzzzzzz]

ok so. WARNING!!! LONG LONG LOOONG ASS POST. nevermind now that I check it isn't that long lolllll

john egbert

genderqueer, or nonbinary wait what if both. can that happen is that possible?? thinks?? if it is then. yeah genderqueer nonbinary egbert. they should be gay aswell I'd think. nwlnw.

another one is errhhhhnmm agender lesbian, uhhhh not necessarily tfem but liek leaning? if that makes sense? screw that actually tfem agender lesbian.

they're definitely mexican btw, OR WAIT ACTUALLY VIETNAMESE IS A GOOD HC I LIKE.

they go by he/any in all of them. smile emoji

uh autistic + depression + probably other things but they're too busy with the narrative.

dave strider

hmmm thinks for a moment. I really like tmasc agender dave, this is mainly like a preference, personal hc. he goes by he/they and also time pronouns. he's bisexual but has a preference for dudes.

I feel like transfem nonbinary dave makes a lotta sense, if she happened instead of june I feel like she'd be better representation? no hate to june ofc. she/they/time for pronouns. as for sexuality? well. bisexual! she lieks the girls and guyss...

either half white half polish or half black half polish.

audhd + depression

rose lalonde

she's always forever gonna be a lesbian in my heart ❤️ asexual absolutely, demigirl, her pronouns would b liek fae/she. smile emoji.

tgirl rosie!! lesbian, hrmm I feel like she'd look into tons and tons of microlabels, her own identity would probably be a hyperfixation so she'd pretty much figure herself out rather quickly. same pronouns fae/she.

mixed, white peruvian heart emoji.

autistic + ocd

jade harley

can you tell I'm getting more tired ooooouu okay so my top #1 official canon totally canon hc for jade is non binary, aroace, and lesbian. they/them pronouns nobody can ever ever change my mind on this.

tmasc jade is also cool I like that aswell.

mexican (same as john) uhmmmrnggf hh I am going to go talk about squid games with my friends now.

o and adhd ❤️

end

ofgh... alpha kids and beta trolls will cum up LATEERR.. or maybe perhaps now... thank you don't harass me for my headcanons uhffhhhmm no junecourse or actually infact no discourse at all heart emoji.

I wanna make another headcanons thing but I cannoooooot find a proper lineup of the alpha kids and beta trolls seperatelyyyy... and my headcanons OH GLD my headcanons change faster than [insert very clever comparison I'm using like 98% of my brain capacity on this post alone and I cannot bother] like actually nonbinary john is amazing but also genderqueer john but also transfem nonbinary dave but also agender dave but also.

you get the point.

what do I do falls to my knees... wait I have an idea actually I think perhaps.