#White queers do the same with straight people/cishets

[tiefling-queer]

so many people would rather shit themselves to death than bother reading anything about landback and making any attempt to understand decolonization.

ending apartheid in south africa didn't result in a genocide of white settlers and their descendants. freeing palestine isn't calling for another genocide of jewish settlers and their descendants. landback isn't a call for mass genocide and deportation of white americans back to europe.

your paranoia about the expected retribution should the indigenous peoples your illegitimate nation oppresses have their land restored to them is unfounded and racist.

your brain is poisoned by this conception that a hierarchy must exist and if youre not at the top then you must be at the bottom. and especially for white people, who cannot imagine being anywhere other than the top (hence why white people subject to other forms of oppression often perceive that oppression as being the worst form of oppression, rather than as a different facet of the same overarching systems that deem us unfit), the idea of being oppressed by groups that youve been taught your whole life, subconsciously or even consciously, to see as lesser and animalistic fills you with fear.

[olderthannetfic]

I know I'm opening that tin of catfood again but... As a queer person in a dangerous living situation, I've slowly learned to treat self appointed "Straight passing privilege" queers as cishet larpers, and it makes so much sense when viewed that way. Not trying to deny their queerness, but their way of acting within queer spaces makes more sense when you look at their actions as if they were cishet. They behave more like cishet allies than queer people, every argument surrounding queerness and privilege is made from a position of a privileged cishet ally and outsider to the queer struggle and an inability to understand what queerness actually means. At the same time they also seem to copy the cishet ally behavior of placing themselves in a position where they patronize queer people. Those cishet allies who believe that they need to speak for us, and then completely miss the point. Why do they talk about straight passing privilege? Because they view it from a position of privilege. Why do they not understand queer nuance? Because they don't understand queer nuance. Why do they view it from a liberal and queer accepting POV? Because they don't live with the queer struggle where this acceptance doesn't exist. I can't even call that internalized queerphobia or accidental cis-heteronormativity, it's more like an internalized white knighting and unintentional alienation of queerness including their own?

--

I don't think struggle is the inherent definition of queerness, but yes, people who haven't experienced dangerous living situations tend to be kind of clueless about them.

[negative-null-semiofficial]

Yeah sure life kinda sucks

I'm at BYU and I often feel like the one rainbow spot in a sea of cishet gray

And I look online and at the election and it feels like the whole world hates me

I go to church and my bishop asks me if I can change, if I can just conform

And I'm tired

But

I have a girlfriend. And she's straight, cis and everything, but she takes time to listen. She started using they/them for me like she always had, she makes it a point to use them ask the time and it always brings me a little spark of joy.

She does my make up and paints my nails and calls me pretty. She says she'll still love me when we graduate and I grow my hair out and get my ears pierced. She insists that I do what will make me happy

As soon as she thought I might be queer, she started doing research. She asked her queer friends how she could help me be comfortable coming out or not, how she could be an ally. She defends me to her conservative parents, she introduced me to her friends.

I love her

I have friends, two cishet guys and their cishet girlfriends, who I came out to and they were immediately accepting. They use my pronouns. They rib me for being gay (affectionate). We talk about issues and the news and they listen. They compliment my make up and ooh and ah over my nails.

We play games and it never comes up. We stay up late at night and talk about the future and even if mine sounds a little different they support it all the same. We get up early in the morning to make breakfast for each other, we pay for each other's groceries, we give each other everything

I love them.

This of the kind of love we all need to make it through the coming years.

I don't have many queer friends. I don't have many people who really understand my story. But I have these friends who try. I have these friends who help me through it.

We can't exclude the majority from the minority. We can't just cut off everyone white, everyone cis, everyone male, whatever, because we'll lose our support. We need that help.

Find love everywhere

[ihopesocomic]

The whole "I'm afraid I'll write minorities wrong so that's why I don't write them" is NONSENSE

If I, a brown trans man, can write a cis white man character without any worry that I'm doing it wrong, then a cis white man can do the same for a character like me

You just LEARN to write or draw women, people of color, gay people, trans people in the same way you learn how to draw men, white people, straight people, cis people

The issue is just that these people don't see us as people, the first thing that pops into their head when writing us is a punchline or an obstacles, not a story

They see a cishet white man as the default and everything else is just impossible to do! It's not like you can just ASK other people for help writing

If anything it just proves that they're bad writers and artists

If you can write a story about fictional gods or going to Atlantis, you can write a queer woman of color 😭

Anon over here telling it like it is - Cat

[doberbutts]

Hey there! I hope you don't mind me asking this.

I remember you posting about how cis women say that men don't have to worry about going outside at night for example, and you brought up moc issues and how black men do have to deal with that. Which was a really good post and made me more aware of the topic.

Well so I keep seeing these posts (made by mostly white queer people) about how "cishet people don't have to worry about holding hands in public" / "opposite sex couples can legally marry anywhere" / etc, which doesn't really sit right with me? Cause interracial couples still face a lot of discrimination and are still actively being hurt. (same with disabled couples, but that's a different topic I think)

However every time I brought this up, people (mainly white queer people) would get mad at me. Saying how I'm changing the topic and how that didn't matter to the conversation.

I was wondering how you feel about this, cause I'm white (and also queer), and I'm not sure if my concern with these statements are valid. Personally I see a lot of poc voices are being ignored in the queer community, and statements aren't useful to make our point (besides being false).

Thanks for reading, please tell me if I'm being ignorant / should do more research on the topic. I'm more than willing to do so. Also don't feel any pressure to answer, I know you don't owe me your time to explain.

Another older ask and one I deliberately left until I had the ability to actually answer on a keyboard instead of on my phone.

The TLDR of this is effectively: this is why I prefer black feminism, which does in fact go into these nuances, to any sort of nonblack theory adopted by the larger feminist and queer communities (which is often white and does not address these problems, which was the point of that post tbh)

But it also goes into my point of how most oppression is neither unique nor is it new, it simply changes its face when applied to different demographics. Much of what we call misogyny is not limited to misogyny, much of what we call homophobia is not limited to homophobia, and so on. "Straight couples don't get disowned by their parents for getting married" well... my ex brother-in-law did because he brought home a black woman. "Straight couples can legally marry anywhere" well according to some sitting justices on the Supreme Court, potentially not for long if they're interracial couples, and while disabled couples can marry they lose all or most of their benefits the moment they do so... "No one beats up straight couples for holding hands" my guy not even going into oppression but you clearly have never been to middle school when a deeply unpopular kid has a crush or is in a relationship with someone who is significantly less unpopular than they are.

But again, this is why I don't find this type of theory to be grounded in reality, and thus why I tend to gravitate more towards theory that makes more sense to the experiences I've had.

[johannestevans]

the thing about watching these trashy cop shows and medical dramas, as i do, is that casting directors always pick people who look "creepy" to them to be like, serial killers or Obvious Abusers

except that to them like. "creepy" just means people who are effete, queer, or clocky

so it's like, here's some dude and look how scary he's being… look how scary and creepy and weird this guy is���

and don't get me wrong, there's the close cousin of this trope which is like, "this person has autism, and is therefore scary", and that's not what i mean

it'll just be some actor who like, no matter how much they're in a str8 role, they're dykey or faggy - jane lynch gets it, but like, lori petty is a great example - she ids as straight, but bc she's got really dykey gender vibes, other straight people are unsettled by her

and i really love lori petty, but she's almost always put into either super hypersexualised roles and/or lesbian roles that are all about like. how Weird and Gross she is when it's just that casting directors rely HUGELY on cues for stuff like gender nonconformity

and so they're like "Oh this woman is capital W Weird (meaning we think she does gender Wrong, whether that means she's a lesbian or transmasc or just clocky in some other way)" and rely on people's bigotry to inform response to the character

james spader gets it all the time, bc he's got OCD and ppl can tell to look at him bc of how he moves and holds his hands and his body - bc there's a delicacy to him, str8 ppl will read him as a bit fruity, at least in comparison to other cis men

to the point that apart from often being cast in very sexy bisexual roles, he's even played a trans man now! (good for him i love james spader this is NOT a critique)

and similarly watching these shows they'll put a guy who is honestly just, to me, a fucking milquetoast white guy - BUT. he is JUST gender nonconforming enough or JUST is like. clocky enough as queer or trans or otherwise being "off" what str8 people want and expect

and they'd never be able to put their fingers on what it is. they'd say "oh you know, he's just a little creepy / weird / off" etc, it's often not just neurodivergence, it's like, facial structure, the movements of the face, the voice, etc. maybe some of it is intersex stuff

but it's the same stuff that to me would be like "hm, maybe he's one of us, maybe he's an SA victim, etc", but i wouldn't know that unless i talked to them more? they're POTENTIAL clues. whereas cishets will be like, oh, this means this person is Evil. then... casting directors

[damnfandomproblems]

respond to a reply on this post: https://www.tumblr.com/damnfandomproblems/758279107941466112/fandom-problem-5461-cishet-being-used-to?source=share

"are you seriously equating making fun of a marginalized group to making fun of like, idk gender reveal parties or whatever people in your fandom make fun of cishets for doing? Like I don't mock people based on their sexuality but tell me that you do understand the difference between someone making fun of a marginalized group with a high suicide rate and someone poking fun at straight people.(Also, for the folks making racism comparisons: I'm white and when people make white people jokes about like, white people love avocado toast! White people love yoga and saying buddy! or whatever, 1) I don't mind 2) that's much different than a white person making fun of say, Black people.)"

As a poc, and specifically a queer (cisbi) native american (tlingit) who grew up around cishet white people, when it comes to online and fannish spaces I have noticed that people tend to cross the line from making harmless fun to just straight up expressing and encouraging hatred

While this is definitely a minority of people who believe and act out on these beliefs, there is a problem of people truly believing that cishet white people are all genuinely evil and inherently evil at that, and that the only way to "fix" (cleanse) the world of all problems would to be committed genocide in fandom spaces. They immediately assume the worse and dehumanize and rejected similarities they may share with cishet white people. It's absolutely prejudice and need to not only be called out, but utterly tossed in the bin

I get feeling uncomfortable or even wary of people who appart of the same kind of people who have oppressed you because you are not sure if they too have been indoctrinated into the bigotry, but we live in the modern era, more often then not you'll find that most cishet white people just don't care about poc and queer stuff

Cishet whites aren't responsible for crimes they weren't even alive for, that their ancestors committed. They are far more often ignorant because the education system is shit and has a lot racism/ableism/etc baked into foundation ontop of not really being how to do own research, then they are intentionally malicious and bigoted, and the best way to prevent them from being indoctrinated into bigotry is to just, expose them queers and poc who are chill with them and are willing to educate. Insulting them and assuming they want to hurt minorities just because they're cishet whites is the best way to push them into radical hands that will instead pain queers and poc as the ones who just want to hurt others for being cishet whites, because "obviously" why else would they immediately assume you want hurt them unless they want to hurt you?

Hating anyone for things they cannot control (race, gender, sexuality, etcetera) only breeds more hate. Yeah, don't tolerating bigots, but if genuinely can't stand a certain demographic of people ignore them rather then going out of your way to hate them. Educate if you can, or shut up when talking to people who haven't don't anything to you beyond offend your sensibly for committing the crime of being born a certain way, because otherwise you're just feeding into the genuinely malicious and bigoted peoples hands and making it easier for them to take the ignorant and make them malicious too

Hatred at the end of the day is hatred, sure, it might not be the racist or homophobic flavor of hatred, but it's still hatered. And no one should hate anyone, at least not for the things they can't control (because fuck pedos/rape-philies in general and murders and genuine racists of course, they can all go get shot, don't get me wrong and twist my words like I know some of y'all are just dying to do)

Posting as a response to a previous problem.

[rjalker]

actually if we want to be more specific, the alloaros and alloaces who sided with exclusionists during the aspec harassment campaign didn't call the rest of us "non-Queers", they called us "non-SGAs" and "cishet aces and aros" or just straight up "cishets".

Applied to literally every ace and aro and aroace person who wasn't either homosexual aromantic or homoromantix asexual.

Because at that time the exclusionists were trying to beat the word "Queer" to death because they didn't like how inherently open-ended and accepting it is compared to "LGBT".

And yes. They called all aces and aros and aroace people who weren't allogay in one way or another cishet, including the people who were aroace and ~SGA~ (same gender attracted/attraction), and the ones who were openly trans and nonbinary.

They didn't care that not being attracted to the opposite gender inherently means you cannot be "het", because they were pretending that the only way to really be not straight was to feel attration to the opposite gender. Literally erasing aromanticism and asexuality as orientations and turning them only into modifiers for your ""real"" orientation, which was either straight, or gay, and you didn't get to decide it for yourself, either.

They literally did not care how many people they had to misgender and erase to pretend that any aspec person who wasn't acceptably allogay wasn't Queer and had no right to call themselves such.

And let's not forget they all went around claiming that every single aspec person was white and a white supremacist, erasing and speaking over all of the openly Black and brown aspec people, while there was literally one big exclusionist who got found out for literally racefaking to help spread the racist rhetoric and claim that any criticism of it was "just more racism".

Like. Do we gotta just go over the whole history lesson for people who weren't there? Because I'm getting really tired of people within the aspec community constantly vomiting up the exact same rhetoric as exclusionists but pretending it's okay because they're aspec too. Like same-gender-attracted alloaros and alloaces weren't some of the biggest accomplices and sellouts of the whole thing. Which went on for years.

[advrageobjectshowenjoyer]

being in the trans community and being trans pisses me off.

Like I’m trans and I can’t change that fuck no I can’t but you know how lonely it is to be in this fucking community???? Like oh yeah I’m trans but I’m not a skinny white dude with curly hair I’m trans but I don’t like men and/or aroace I’m trans but I DONT WANT SURGERYS OR HRT. I’m trans but I can’t afford nor do I want binders. I’m trans but I am comfortable with she/her being used on me by friends and family and such I’m trans but I consider myself a lesbian still because I hold onto the label no matter my identity I’m trans but not a trans man or boy (not trans fem either) I’m trans but I don’t have all these cores and astetics I’m trans but I don’t have a partner I’m trans but my music isn’t intresting I’m trans but I’m not white I’m trans but my hair ain’t the soft curls or waves people want. I’m black and trans but I’m not dark I’m black and trans but I didn’t grow up in the Subarbs I’m black and trans and my family will never accept that I’m black and trans and feel like my blackness also plays a part in my trans identity. I’m Hispanic and trans and it feels wrong to be the way I am. I’m native and trans and it feels like everything I am just makes me more targeted and a minority. Im trans and this shit sucks.

I want to be who I want to be without worrying no one is going to accept me because I don’t fit into this fucking norm our community made up for some fucking reason like yeah breaking the norm to create a new one. Especially I can’t even label myself without other doing it for me oh if your black and a butch you MUST call yourself a stud oh your black/hispanic and trans that’s so hot oh I’m sorry this must hurt you let me talk over you about your problems oh your trans and a lesbian are you a lesboy. The last part pisses me off I don’t consider myself a lesboy as I don’t consider myself a man truely and I prefer not to go by it but from wha to know it’s trans or other gendered individuals who uses it like myself we talk about trans phobia in our community and turn the fuck around and do the same shit we are hypocrites. Just like we did to neopronouns and just like how we tried to cut off the trans men from the trans woman. We are just as bad if not worst for hurting our community’s and ourselves for how we try to appease to the cishet or those homophobic lesbians and gay men who only believe you can love ONE GENDER not realizing how ironic they sound or the bi people who try to seem more higher then others because well I also fat ehre opposite gender I’m basically straight sucks to suck I guess not real sing your also queer don’t rub oru short comings in oru face or like that trans woman who says our slurs can only be used by their group no matter how much we also suffered

eanr over I want a fucking grilled cheese and I need to shit tbh.

[smallblueblondie]

Terfs really think that demanding protection for gnc cis girls while also calling for murder of trans men,,, Does something.

Like the line between gnc cis and trans is not a straight clean cut line, and you will very rarely if ever be able to tell exactly where a visibly queer/gnc person falls at a first glance. There's so much gray area.

There's cis women who use he/him and cis men who call themselves "girl" names. There's self ID-ing cis drag queens who use different pronouns based on their persona and butches who call themselves daddy and sir. There's people who you'd think are clearly nonbinary because of how they present and describe their gender but who just don't ID that way. There's every shade of grey imaginable between cis gnc and trans.

So where do they draw the line? What is acceptable gender nonconformity and what makes you an evil trans infiltrator? Is it changing your pronouns? Your name? Self ID-ing as trans? Dressing """too""" gnc? Visibly not passing as your AGAB anymore? Is it not adhering to the suffocating white supremacist beauty standard? Being fat or disabled or black?

Do cis women who look like trans men or nonbinary people at a first glance deserve all the physical, emotional, and sometimes even sexual violence that they throw at trans people? What about cis men who look like trans women or nonbinary people?

When do gnc queers go from supposedly being backbones of the community that we need to protect, to evil freaks that need to be beaten and raped and murdered the same way cishet homophobes want all queer people treated, cis gay terfs included?

GNC cis queers absolutely deserve better, but terfs are complete fucking hypocrites when they imply that they want to protect gnc cis queers and then call a cis woman a tranny for having a big nose.

I could go on about terf hypocrisy (just like how they're supposedly champions for sexual assault victims who also regularly wish for trans people to be correctively raped) but I'll keep this post to one point for now. It's just something I noticed that makes me mad but honestly that's on me for ever expecting terfs to make any kind of fuckin sense.

[drdemonprince]

That ask about small talk and fear reminded me: a few days ago my partner and I were at our local café. I went to use the restroom and found the toilet seemingly backed up, so went and told a worker since I didn't want to try using it and then make it worse. A random guy who'd been there for a while came over and said "Want me to take a look at it?" We all thought it was Weird and Creepy but he genuinely just wanted to help, and managed to fix it! It was great! He was just a kind stranger wanting to help. And as we left later it hit me how sad it is that fear was our initial reaction. I wish I would've thanked the guy instead of being awkwardly frozen. But it also gave me a little hope and a reminder that most people are just like me, just a person trying to enjoy the life we have and be nice to others.

Yes, I really do believe that if we are invested in mad pride and disabled liberation at all, we gotta take that initial knee-jerk reaction of "this person is weird" or "this behavior is breaking unspoken social scripts" and throw it into the fucking garbage.

No one is a bad person for feeling wary in that way, it is a socially conditioned response -- but it is very dangerous. It's the same kind of thing that leads to people covering their homes in security cameras and calling the cops on children knocking on their neighbor's doors in search of their missing cat. You probably would never do anything of that nature, of course! But it's all part of the same social ideology. And that ideology keeps you isolated and less likely to seek help -- it doesn't keep any of us safe.

Personally I LOVE talking to fucking WEIRD PEOPLE. I spent an hour this summer at a picnic table talking to a tweaked out guy covered in facial tattoos and scales about my aura and the psychic journey he was on and shit. It turns out that he was a trans woman in the 1980s but he didn't have the language for it! He was drawn to me because he could tell I was gender-weird too, and because he said I had a very open looking soul. I could scoff at that or I could be afraid of him, but why??? He was fucking cool! he had a ton of fascinating life experiences and is friends with a lot of the other people I see on the streets in my neighborhood. Turned out we were both Aries' and we talked about that a ton too.

I also met a guy in a dusty old cowboy hat in the park by Loyola beach who told me he is the official 'patriarch of the park' and gets to decide who he allows to pick up litter there. He pointed to a very clean-cut white woman stabbing at trash with a stick and a needle and told me that he had given her personal clearance to clean up "his" park. She might seem like a fussy white suburban type lady, he conveyed, but she was interested in making the space better for everyone and wasn't doing any Kareny shit, so she was welcome.

Last weekend I was going to a free concert in Ping Tom Park and edgy 19 year old punk kids danced next to 70 year old Chinese retirees and middle-aged yuppie parents and their toddlers and homeless people and 50 something Mexican old head techno fans and it was the loveliest fucking thing in the world. A guy up the street from the park was selling dozens of old back packs and coats and electronics on his front lawn and I dug through them and chatted before getting there.

Living in a city and spending a lot of time outside, I meet people like that a lot, and my life is immeasurably enriched by it. It makes me sick and sad that so many human beings never get to talk to strangers like this, recoil from homeless people or people on drugs, and fear any stranger's intrusion into their life. I think even a lot of left leaning, queer people harbor these reactions and chalk them up to things like "being afraid of men" or "being afraid of straight people" and we even promote that kind of thinking within our communities at times. I find it very damaging. Some of the most wholesome experiences in my life have been random nice/warm things cishet men on the street have done for me.

[batfamfucker]

Spiderverse Spoilers Ahead - Trans Stuff.

The amount of people saying that believing Gwen is Trans is 'reaching'- As if her and her dad don't both have Trans flags, her colours aren't literally that of the Trans flag, and that every Spiderman reveal speech feels like a goddamn coming out coded scene- Is insane.

As if the Spiderverse creative team didn't plan and animate everything to the last detail.

I've seen people saying her owning the flag could just be an ally thing. Which is true, but how many people own pride flags for allyship compared to just. Being actually queer? I swear the transphobes are delusional.

Like. They way they (The animators) plan colours and set designs and costumes and colour coding is so detailed. You want me to believe they had Miles wear a BLM pin because it was relevant to him personally, but then not believe that Gwen's dad wore a trans pin and she had a 'Protect Trans Kids' (People keep saying it could be the dad but keyword: Kids) flag in her room because they were personal to her, too?

The same team that hinted 42 Miles as the Prowler by having our Miles put on a green and purple hoodie? So we know they code with colour. But saying Gwen could be Trans because her designated colours being symbolic of the Trans flag is a reach? As if the Spiderverse team wouldn't know that (After they added the flags none the less), and don't foreshadow/hint at things with colours throughout this franchise? You genuinely think it's a 'reach' that the same people that took THREE YEARS to figure out how to animate Hobie alone, wouldn't realise how using those colours would be interpreted (Especially next to the other subtext and design clues)? That they what? Didn't do research? As if they haven't been excellently representing communities this entire time and clearly putting all their love into clearly researching and showcasing the beauty of diversity? Be so for real.

I've seen people complaining that 'we do this with every movie'. Name one Trans animated movie character. Or one Trans movie character at all (That doesn't die, or go through something horrific for no needed reason, or isn't built from harmful stereotypes, etc).

The levels people will go to to deny queer existence and queer characters is ridiculous. You don't have to like it. I don’t care. She's not Trans for you, she's Trans for the Trans people watching this movie. The same way that Miles is Black, or that Pavitr is Indian. Anyone can be Spider-Man, that's the entire point. It's not 'forced diversity', it's just diversity. Trans people exist, the same way that straight/cis people do. You'll hype up Miles as a step in a progressive direction, then shit on Trans people for clinging to Gwen for the same resonation?

If you want a cishet white Spider-Man, go watch all the other medias that exist. We're allowed this one. The creators made their message very clear, Spiderverse is for everyone. Spider-Man can be anyone.

[ssaseaprince]

I swear anyone who says Hannibal and Will aren't canon just didn't watch the show. It's not implied, it's not hinted, it's not subtext. It's incredibly romantic and is explicitly said so. The moment and embrace they shared at the end of season 3 was so powerful to me. Just because they didn't kiss or say "hehe want to be my boyfriend?" like they're in some teen romcom doesn't mean they aren't a canonical pairing. They got together at the END of the show after it being stated several times that they love each other and can't live without each other and want each other more than anyone. Lines like wanting to run away together and hungering for each other and "is Hannibal in love with me" are, apparently, completely platonic in some people's eyes or just wishful thinking or, christ, queerbaiting (a point I hope no one has made because it's ridiculously stupid). I'm quite happy with the end of season 3, but I'd hope for a 4th season if only, so they can be a couple on screen and people can stop being dumb about the canon of their relationship

I am so sorry that I have taken forever to reply to this, I lowkey forgot that my inbox was a thing 😅

You are completely right. I want to call it a lack of media literacy, but I'm not sure that's the best phrase. As an autistic person, I completely understand struggling with subtext and needing to have things presented in a straightforward, blunt way. However, with Hannigram, you don't even need to rely solely on subtext. Like you pointed out, Will flat out says, "Is Hannibal in love with me?" And then you've got the entire cast, the showrunner, writer, producers, etc, all saying that they are canonically in love.

And because of that, I really struggle to give people the benefit of the doubt when they say that Hannigram isn't canon or that their relationship is "open to interpretation." Because if you were solely confused due to issues with understanding subtext, then you wouldn't get all up in arms about people pointing out that Hannigram IS CANON.

This honestly leads me to believe that the very vast majority of people who will fight tooth and nail to convince everyone that Hannibal and Will aren't in love is because of homophobia.

We are not used to seeing queer relationships in media. There is maybe a handful of movies and TV shows that revolve around queer relationships. So it is people's knee-jerk reaction to assume that every character is straight and that only heterosexual relationships are canon, and it's because of this bias that they will fight against all queer representation and only accept it when the characters are physically affectionate, and even then they will find reasons to claim it's not valid.

Cishet people are a lot like white people, and men, and basically every other majority, in the way that they feel the need to relate to every single main character, otherwise they can't enjoy the show/book/movie etc. Hannibal and Will have been confirmed as canon, in and out of the show. But these people will fight against it because, whether consciously or unconsciously, the second that their characters are confirmed as queer, they immediately can't relate to them and therefore can't enjoy the show.

They see queer people and queer relationships as so *other* that queer representation literally ruins it for them. Maybe this is an extreme analogy, but it's like watching a movie about humans, and then halfway through finding out that they're robots, and all of a sudden, these aren't people that you're familiar with, they are something other. The knowledge that a character is queer is genuinely so incomprehensible to them that they will do anything to deny it.

And I think that kind of thinking is the biggest problem. It's not always done with bad intention, and it's not always conscious, but it's there. You can see actors and actresses who do the same thing. They have such a visceral reaction to the idea that their character might be queer, that they immediately shut it down. Because if the character is queer, the character isn't relatable, and if the character isn't relatable somehow, the show isn't enjoyable.

By relatable, I don't just mean, "They're straight, and I'm straight." I mean that they genuinely see queer people as completely other from them, and they just cannot grasp the existence of queer relationships as actual relationships and not just vague ideas. Yes, they know that queer relationships are real, but they genuinely can not look at a queer relationship or a queer person and actually have any level of deeper empathy and understanding. They see queer relationships are something completely different then cishet relationship, so the second that a queer relationship becomes the focus, they disengage.

This all relates back to people refusing to acknowledge any kind of queer relationship as canon unless physical affection is apparent.

Obviously, not all straight people do this, but it's an issue that's a lot more prominent than what most people think. As soon as you start looking for it, you see it everywhere. I'm not saying these people hate queer people or don't want queer representation, but this kind of homophobia is just so widely accepted and normalized that it's a knee-jerk reaction, and unfortunately, it's so normalized that people don't even realize they have these biases that they need to get rid of.

Sorry this reply is so long and late coming! I appreciate the ask and love hearing your opinions ❤️

[iguessitsjustme]

I have not been able to stop thinking about this since episode 9 aired and I read an excellent insight into Pat’s character this morning by @wen-kexing-apologist so I wanted to talk about Jeng because he is the character that I relate to the most. Granted, I am not a high level manager in my parent’s successful company, BUT I’ve worked office jobs and I’ve been in management positions and overseeing people. Please keep in mind that I am approaching Jeng as a white queer person who was raised (all over) the United States so I can only truly add the perspective that gives me. Also I wrote this while bored at work so I was definitely not nearly as articulate as I like, and this might not be anyone else’s interpretation and I completely understand if you do not agree with me here. With that said, here we go:

I am probably the most cishet passing person in the world. There’s no particular reason for this other than it’s just the way I am and how I like to present. I don’t risk my safety by presenting queer, I just don’t. I live in a big city, my family is incredibly supportive, my friends are queer, a good number of my coworkers are queer, I am not closeted. But people see me and they assume that I am straight. For the purposes of this post I'm focusing on sexual orientation rather than gender what I’m focusing on because my relationship with gender right now is basically the shrug emoji. Despite being out as bi since I was 24 many years ago, I still find myself constantly coming out to people because if I say nothing, assumptions are made about me and those assumptions are based on a heteronormative worldview that society has cursed us all to and those assumptions about me are wrong. 

Now let’s look at Jeng. I’m not gonna mention Pat because I fully believe that Pat’s response to learning Jeng is attracted to men was entirely based on his own repressed feelings and not entirely an assumption that Jeng is straight. Jeng passes as straight. I’m sure that’s due to a combination of his position, his family, and just his overall personality. We know that Jeng is out to people. He talks to his friend about Pat, Jaab asks him about his feelings towards Pat, and when he brings Pat home, Jeng’s parents see Pat and make some assumptions about what occurred. So a significant number of people in Jeng’s life know that he is gay and it’s not only a significant number that know but the people closest to him know as well. The other people that are able to clock Jeng in this show are the other queer people. Chot and Jen just know. They see how he looks at and interacts with Pat and can see the humongous crush that Jeng is nursing. So Jeng is working under the assumption that around these people, he is out. He might present straight and he might keep that up for work purposes, but he believes himself to be out to at least the other queer people near him.

Then Pat says this:

And Jeng breaks. And I get that. Jeng knows that Pat is gay, Jeng thought that Pat knew he was gay. Jeng thought they were on the same page. Other queer people in Jeng’s life have known he was gay without him needing to explicitly state that. Pat, the person Jeng has been flirting with and has confessed to (while he was so drunk he couldn’t understand Jeng you beloved idiot) had no clue. At least that’s how it appears to Jeng, who is now in the unfortunate position of needing to out himself. Let me tell you something, it is exhausting to have to constantly come out to people. Every new person that I meet, if I want them to know that I am queer, I need to explicitly tell them because if I don’t, they will never know. I’ve had people think that I’m just a really good ally before. There are times I wish I was so entirely and visibly queer that no one would ever doubt it, and I’m sure Jeng felt that in this moment with Pat. It just takes one look at his face during this scene to know that Jeng has been here before and he is tired and his heart is breaking.

How many people do you think Jeng has had to make a choice between outing himself or letting them work with false assumptions regarding his sexuality? How many times has Jeng chosen to closet himself instead of being who he is? How many times has Jeng been interested in another man but had no chance because that person didn’t know or care to believe he is gay? Just needing to make the decision on whether or not to explicitly say, “Yes, I like men” or “I’m gay” is tiring in and of itself, but then the actual saying of the words? Depleting. Especially to someone who you thought already knew. It hurts when people think I’m just a really good ally. I can’t imagine the pain Jeng felt at Pat’s surprise because to Jeng, that surprise indicated that Pat saw him as a good ally (again, I do not think that’s what was going on with Pat but this is about Jeng and his interpretation) and not as someone with interest in him.

Then Jeng learns later on that Pat just doesn’t understand how someone like Jeng can like him. It doesn’t make sense to Pat. How many times has Jeng been made to feel like his sexuality, coming from him, doesn’t make sense? I’m sure his dad had some things to say about it. I’m sure part of the reason he left previously was due to that. So while Jeng is out, it is a constant coming out process and then an entire new process to get people to believe it. Jeng’s sadness is mostly about Pat rejecting him, but I’m sure at least a small part of it is also the tiny piece of him that was so sure that Pat at least knew he was gay.

Jeng now believes that Pat has only ever seen him as his straight boss and that can’t change. Pat sees him as a coworker, not even a friend, not even a member of the queer community. Just a coworker and nothing more. The revelation that Jeng likes and is attracted to men, made Pat uncomfortable. Is it because Jeng doesn’t obviously present as gay? Is it because he isn’t as clockable as someone like Chot? Now Jeng has to think of not only all of his interactions with Pat, but also all of his interactions with the other queer people in his office. Does he have to come out to them too or do they already know like he thought they did? Jeng was so busy being the most smitten man in the universe, it didn’t occur to him that his giant, massive, all-consuming crush on Pat might not have been obvious. I’m guessing the straight people in his office have been working under the assumption that he is straight. Will he need to come out to them too? He has been handling this for who knows how long, but this time, this time it HURTS.

Jeng was so worried about crossing the boundaries by being Pat’s boss that he didn’t even think about how dating a man would impact his worker’s perception of him. I don’t think he ultimately cares about what they think of his personal life or his personality as long as they are able to function as a department. But when Pat asked if he liked men, Jeng had to start reevaluating everything. Not just his interactions with Pat, but his interactions with the world. No wonder he seemed so just completely and utterly tired this episode. When Jeng and Pat finally work through their little miscommunication issues (which makes so much sense and work so well with this show I can’t even begin to describe my actual love for it which is weird cause miscommunication is my least favorite trope), I don’t think Jeng will actually change anything about the way he presents himself to the world. He still has his family to think about, and he’s still, well, he’s still Jeng. But I think this gave him some things to think about himself that he probably already knew but didn’t think he would have to explain to another queer person. Especially not Pat. Pat is out at the office, but it wasn’t entirely his choice. Pat outed himself so he would stop getting put in awkward conversations about the women in the office. Jeng might have seen something similar to himself in Pat. Pat could potentially pass as straight, and in fact did at the very beginning. He let people think he was dating a woman. Pat was careful who he came out to at the office. Jeng probably thought that of all people, Pat would understand him the best. Not explicitly out, but not in the closet either. How heartbreaking for both of them that their experiences clashed in such a way. But once those two get on the same page? They are gonna be the cutest couple in the entire world and I am so excited to see Jeng, finally, finally, be able to express his love for Pat to Pat as much as he wants to.

[certified-bi]

Couple Things

Yes there are issues with vote counting, notably the fires which were all reported to happen before Nov. 5th, and issues with mail in ballots. Please check your status if you mailed in your vote and remind those around you to do the same.

That being said now is not the time for full blown conspiracies. If you add up all the legitimate cases of mail in ballots on hold, or going out late(Which the resistance to counting these is not a great sign), you wouldn't have 20 million ballots.

Please fact check everything that you see on your dash, which is a good practice in general. There are always people willing to feed on despair or anger to recruit the desperate. It'll become harder to separate these people from random blogs that are giving into the fearmongering the more people share unchecked rumors. Being vigilant is always important

I'm not saying a recount after all the votes are in(which they aren't so we don't have for sure totals rn) is a bad idea. I am saying that it is entirely realistic that voters who were willing to turn out for a middle of the road white man not showing up for a slightly more left black woman is unfortunately not a surprise and has everything to do with the Christianity backed racism and misogyny in this country as well as the cesspit most media orgs are.

Unfortunately this is only going to push democrats further right because yet again voters don't show up to support candidates like Harris despite the fact that she ran on a platform that did address the economy(despite people pretending she didn't) and was as progressive as a presidential candidate for a main party would be in current times. With that in mind we have to keep focusing on voting and supporting the candidate that aligns most with our values, who also has a chance of winning in future elections. This means voting down your ballot in every election and making realistic choices.

There's been a lot of finger pointing in the left which is just not helpful at best and destructive at worst. Mainly this seems to be online which isn't shocking so this is your reminder that unless someone proudly supports trump or was proud to not vote for Harris, to not start throwing stones at individuals in groups that veered right, because every group veered right. I'm already seeing so many "Men are all bad," and "X racial minority turned on us" and like let's be so real it was mostly cishet white people and young cishet men in online echo chambers.

What doesn't help things is equating trends and large groups with individuals and getting caught up in group think. Yes men who are followers of Andrew Tate are not your friend. At the same time queer men who will be hurt by this decision are not your enemy. Straight men who supported Harris are not your enemy. Men of color who have always been at risk of America's brand of racism are not your enemy. The women who supported Trump are not your friends. Bioessentialism isn't progressive and is just wrapping paper over conservative(transphobic and unscientific) values. When you hear statements that are intended to make you turn on your community, I'm begging y'all to take a second to actually unpack the implications.

If you could get pregnant and don't wish to be it's in your best interest to be careful with sex that could get you pregnant by using multiple forms of protection and having ideas of where to go and what to do if the worst happens in advance. The same to anyone who does want to have a child but worries about a risky pregnancy. If you're trans please be careful with any advice you find online about healthcare especially hormones. Make sure the advice is legal because the last thing we need is for you to get charged for following bogus advice or worse risking your health and safety with unsafe alternatives. Planned Parenthood can be a good place to start for both, A4TE and WPATH have pages on jumping off to find trans healthcare and WPATH has a search directory if you know the exact services you're looking for.

Things are going to be rough. Social Media including Tumblr feed off negativity and division. Be mindful and be safe. Create or join in person communities when possible and remember that at least 70 million people voted for Harris, given the west coast hasn't been fully counted, and that he's not going to have an easy go of things. Do what you need to survive. Support local charities and volunteer orgs and donate when you can. The only way out is through and we need you to make it through.

[mordcore]

oh also it just hit me why queer men *and* incels like anime

anime doesn't have the same toxic gender ideals as mainstream usa media has. probably has different ones but men are allowed to not be performing toxic masculinity and not be immediately troped as creepy perverted weirdo who's weird and freakish about sex and in general (i hate hollywood so much).

there's even a kind of anime trope about a guy whos a big loser and over the course of the story he gets to be cool and badass and maybe even the things that made him a loser inspire his power later on (i'm thinking about SAO right now but only got the abridged version in my head so im not 100% certain kirito is cast as an irl loser in the og sao too but for sure the "likes videogames" is what gives him the advantage).

and the thing about men is that there's two classes of men. the incels call them chads vs virgins or alpha males vs beta males. queer men might call them cishets vs queer people. or privileged men vs opressed men.

the two classes thing is true about women as well btw, mainstream feminists these days will pretend there isn't two classes of women but who got bullied in highschool vs who got bullied is by no means random and it works the same way for men. it's about how gender conforming you are perceived to be. are you "a real woman"/"a real man"? or are you a defective one?

queer man and incels are groups that are very different obviously, but they share the trait of being in the class of "defective men". they can't measure up to toxic masculinity standards because they're gay or they don't even like all that stuff or maybe they do but they just suck at imitating it. the difference is that queer men, once they (we) identify as queer, often learn to embrace this second class as liberating and stop trying to match up to societal standards. same goes for queer "defective women" people and when the freaks from both sides join forces gender roles get thrown in the garbage and only taken out to play with and that's why -- in my personal experience -- among queer folks the gender you are or were or whatever doesn't really set you apart from your peers as much as it does in cishet/ "first class gender" circles. or at all even.

but the incels somehow didn't find that liberation and instead hunkered down in their toxic blackpill communities making each other worse. they know they are defective men and their analysis of gender conformance among men has some good points, but. i don't know maybe they are too authoritarian to even consider that breaking social norms can be a good thing or maybe they're too white and cis-straight to even want to join the same group as the queer freaks or i dont fucking know why someone becomes an incel instead of joining forces with other freaks and lift each other up.

to return to anime. i think it's because anime gives what men from hollywood-poisoned societies can perceive as freedom to be a second class man and still being a person.

anime conventions are strange places, i don't know any other places where so many queer and queerphobic people occupy the same spaces. (anecdotal evidence: all but one queerphobic remarks i've had said to me in public (men's) bathrooms were at anime conventions)

(wip but posting cuz i dont trust drafts)