#We do get into themes of autonomy and control and some of the things the clones realistically dealt with

[corellianhounds]

Thanks for The tag buddy!

(And soon I will answer it, 'cause I need to organize my ideas :)

But, The Clone Action Movie Pitch actually got me.

I'm all ears 👀

YESSSS I’m so happy, I was hoping somebody asked about this one! This idea came to me two weeks ago and I’m STOKED (And also I am defo ready to see what you have cooking 👏)

So basically the thought started with the beginning to a familiar action movie setup of a group of guys having to reunite after over a decade because somebody has been coming after the members of their former squad and killing them off one by one, and now they have to get back together for one last job to find out why and put a stop to it. Despite the fact I started writing this with the express purpose of using all sorts of action movie tropes for the formula, there’s still new and fun twists on how they happen because we’ve set it within the world of Star Wars. It’s a good old fashioned action movie, babyyyyy!

It’s also all original characters, which I know may not be some people’s thing, but it means that this is unconstrained by most of canon, in terms of timeline consistency or connections to other properties’ stories. I have plenty of canonical Star Wars elements, but I wanted this to be a case of “Hey do you like Star Wars and don’t want to do any homework to understand what’s happening? Do you like action movies? Come on in!”

—

Taking place ~16 years after the end of the Clone Wars, the story opens with fifteen-year-old Rio and his father living simply in a city on an Outer Rim planet. Most people didn’t know what the clones looked like beyond their armor, and that— along with its owners— was phased out a long time ago. Rio doesn’t know much about his father’s past beyond his own life, but it doesn’t come up in conversation much and Rio doesn’t know of a life any different than the one they’ve always had.

There’s some suspicious activity and murmurings around town, us following Rio through what a normal day should be for him, but as the day draws to a close things start to get more suspicious. His dad, normally a genial and easygoing guy, is strangely quiet and serious, and there’s a moment Rio catches him having some furtive conversation over a comm in the hall; when his dad realizes he’s there he snaps at him to go back to bed.

When Rio’s noticeably caught off guard by his dad’s tone, his dad visibly softens and his shoulders slump, and he goes to him, gently pulling him in to press his forehead to his son’s as he apologizes, asking him more civilly to go upstairs. Rio accepts the gesture of affection and reluctantly does as he’s told. Though his dad outwardly seems much more like his calm self, there’s still something tense about him.

The next day it’s clear there is something going on, the kid seeing people closing up shops, arguments happening in the square, a squad of troopers questioning and harassing people. Rio’s nearly caught up in trouble with the troopers himself before his dad appears out of nowhere and intervenes, making quick work of them before telling him to stay calm and follow his lead, the two of them swiftly making a beeline for their home.

His dad tells him to pack a bag of necessities only, says they’re leaving and they won’t be coming back. Rio, understandably alarmed, desperately follows his dad around the house asking questions, asking what’s going on in town as his dad yanks cords from electrical panels in the walls and burns the databanks on his machines, and the kid’s alarm only heightens as he sees his dad pull burner comms, armor and gear, tools and equipment and weapons he’s never even seen before from hidden compartments all around the house.

His dad hated guns.

When Rio finally stops him and demands to know what’s going on, refusing to budge another inch until he has answers, his father sighs, visibly pained by the anger and distrust on his son’s face.

He takes Rio by the shoulders, gentle despite all that’s happened. “Do you trust me?”

Rio looks doubtful. “… Is the person you are still my father?”

“Yes,” his dad says without a moment of hesitation. “Yes, Rio.”

Rio wavers for a moment, but right now all he sees are the earnest, honest eyes of his dad, and he realizes… Yes. He does trust him.

“… Okay,” Rio says, beginning to help pack gear into a duffel bag. “Let’s go.”

—

The kid doesn’t ask any more questions as they head out of town on foot, not even when gunfire starts up several blocks behind them and people start panicking in the streets. They’re at the edge of town when they hear the first explosion and Rio sees his dad’s resolve harden to determination. An old friend of theirs takes them by speeder outside of town; Rio still doesn’t ask questions when his dad leads him to a ship that’s been hidden and well-maintained for over a decade, and eventually the two of them set out to escape off-planet.

They wait in a remote location for other ships and transports to arrive. Rio sees a number beings exit the ramps; there’s a Pantoran woman in a trench coat with a satchel over one shoulder. A mountain of a man in a motley assortment of layers follows her, wearing a visor and partial face mask, accompanied by a droid. Another pilot lands and immediately hops out from the cockpit, sliding down the ladder as a second man follows. The first looks like a stunt racer, dressed in speederbike leathers and boots. The second man looks like a regular lineman, though with a rifle slung across his and a mask covering his features. The pilot unbuckles the strap of his helmet as he joins them, and something about it looks familiar to Rio.

A real, honest-to-gods Mandalorian appears from behind Rio and his dad from the outcropping they’d met at, either having been there the whole time or somehow managing to creep up on them without notice.

The group convenes in a loose circle, and his father removes his hood.

“Lark,” he says, nodding to the woman. “Gentlemen,” he says to the men. “It’s been a while.”

They all look at each other, noticeably glancing at the kid before he says “Rio. My son.”

Slowly, one by one, all of them remove their helmets and masks, and Rio can’t help but look around the circle in astonishment.

Each man there, every one among them for no discernible reason why or how, shares his father’s face.

WIP Ask Game

[beescake]

i am in love with your sollux i think

sollux love party :]

if you’re interested heres some of my personal fondness thoughts on him.. big warning for the mega long read ahead aye

as we alr know sollux's rejection of participation somewhat mirrors dave's rejection of heroism, but even without getting cooked to completion i still find sollux's character v compelling beyond the fourth wall

as someone who doesnt get a pinch of that Protagonist Sparkle to begin with, he can openly say he wants to leave anytime…. and unlike dave, he actually Can leave the scene anytime. but he can never be truly Free from the story via permanent character death like the other trolls.

his irrelevancy is indeed relevant - he’s there so u can point him out.

while his image is intended to be a relic of past internet subculture, his role is not only about hehehaha being a Chad or a 2000s cyberforum 2²chan haxxor ragequit gamebro.

his continued existence also happens to add a Bit to the overarching themes of homestuck! a Bit that gives him longer-lasting thematic relevance compared to the trolls who could’ve had more character potential but didnt get to survive beyond the main story.

the Bit in question:

his defiance contributes to the illusion of agency (treating characters = people with autonomy). he’s “aware” of it, and that recognition is worth noting enough to forcibly keep him alive as both reward and punishment.

considering how his personality & classpect is designed its definitely a very haha thing for hussie to do LOL. he’s made to be op asf so he's resigned to doing dirty work, gradually deteriorating along the way but never truly dying. as fans have mentioned before, him openly rejecting involvement after a while of grim tolerance is like if the sim u were controlling suddenly stopped, looked up and gave u the finger while u were step six into the walkthrough for Every Possible Sim Death Animation.

but since he’s just a sim… the more he hates it, the more you keep him around. if ur sim started complaining abt your whimsical household storyline you’d definitely keep that little fuck.

but yeah i like that sollux is just idling. the significance of his presence being that one dude who's always reliably Somewhere, root core Unchanged, no individual ambitions (possibly due to fear of consequence?), and design-wise: a staple representative product of his time.

compared to dirk's character, who has aged phenomenally well into the present (themes of control + AR + artificial intelligence, clearer exploration around navigating relationships/sexuality, infinite possibilities of self-splinterhood and trait inheritance), sollux's potential is really... contained. bitter. defeatist. limiting and frustrating in the way old tech is.

the world continues moving on to shinier, brighter, more advanced automated things - minimalist and metaverse or whatever but sollux is still here 🧍‍♂️ going woohoo redblue 3d. (tho personally i imagine his vibe similar to what the kids call cassette futurism on pinterest mixed w more grimy grunge insectoid influences eheh)

conceptually-speaking,

at the foundation of it all, the rapid pace of modern development was built off the understanding of ppl like sollux in the past, who were There actively at work while the dough was still beginning to rise

thats one of the cool things abt the idea of trolls preceding humans! the idea that trolls like sollux excelled back when lots of basic shit still needed to be discovered, building structures like networks and codes from scratch, and humans will eventually inherit and reinvent that knowledge in ways that become so optimized it makes the old manual effort seem archaic, slow, and labour-intensive.

but despite information/resources/shortcuts being more accessible now, much of the new highly-anticipated stuff released on trend still end up unfinished, inefficient, or expiring quickly due to cutting corners under severe capitalistic pressures

meanwhile, some of the old stuff frm past generations of thorough, exploratory and perfectionistic development still remains working, complete, and ever so sturdy.

those things continue to exist, just outside our periphery with either:

zero purpose left for modern needs (outdated/obsolete)

or

far too important to replace or destroy, bcs of its surprisingly essential and circumstantial usefulness in one niche specific area.

which are honestly? both points that sum up sollux pree well.

dramatic ending sorry. anw are u still on the fence or are u Sick abt him like me </3

[lesbianherald]

Hi! Just curious. What exactly is that you didn't like about Viktor's arc? I've seen a few people saying the same thing and idk if I'm missing something or I'm just too over the moon about him that my brain has gone smooth haha.

oh no oh no i'm probably going to write like a whole dissertation about this I am so sorry I'm literally cracking my knuckles I have so many thoughts and not all of them I'll even get to articulate here.

Saying this upfront: you aren't smooth-brained for disagreeing with me or liking it. I want to say that outright as I'm a very opinionated person and I am going to state my very strong opinions very plainly.

That being said : I genuinely feel like season 2 needed like... character writing 101 for a lot of these characters, especially the two characters whose names start with a 'V'. I'm so serious if one of my students brought in a story like this, I would (gently) take it apart.

If you don't want to read the whole thing I'm about to unleash, the crux of it is this for me:

Throughout the course of the season, it's very hard to discern how many of Viktor's decisions are his own. He lacks the baseline autonomy that's necessary for satisfying development. The magic of the hexcore becomes a shiny distraction that makes meaningful development impossible. Additionally, season 2 forgets so many of the themes and threads they explored with Viktor in season one explicitly in terms of class and his position on war and weapons manufacturing.

And, like almost everything in season 2, these issues are compounded because his story is done at a pace that's completely lightning-fast and prioritizes the wrong things.

Here's my thesis:

How Does a Man Like Viktor Become the Machine Herald? Arcane's Answer: Magic orb or vague sadness or something idk.

Harry Lloyd said in a season 1 commentary somewhere that one of the main appeals for Viktor is knowing who he is in the game and wondering how you take a man like him, who is so kind and has people's best interests at heart, and see him slowly become the machine herald.

I agree 100% that this is part of the story's appeal for players. And it would be a delight and surprise for non-players.

We... get that very juicy premise ripped from us. We don't see him making decisions grounded in the character they set up in season 1 at all, really. And its very unsatisfying seeing him be rendered a mere victim of circumstance with vague attachments to his past self.

This is not necessarily a complaint about arcane herald vs machine herald (I did not play league and am not attached to the lore) but a complaint that a lot of what happens with Viktor in season 2 seems very unattached to his psychology.

Christian Linke himself said (and I forget where, so I am sorry if I'm paraphrasing terribly) that part of the question he wanted the audience to ask with Viktor is how much of this is really him? Bluntly. That is incredibly silly. It's such an important question that it makes all other interesting questions one might have about him really hard to parse.

That's not compelling. That's a mistake. That's not rooted in character anymore but a vague magical orb.

Here are some questions that would have been more interesting for us to ask, Christian.

How does his desire to tamper out human emotion prompt him to do the unspeakable? What leads him there?

How far is he willing to go to take away human pain and suffering?

Is his version of pacifism really, in actuality, a form of violence?

Will his connection with others be enough to bring him back to his humanity? (this is a question we were not prompted to ask, and if we were, it would have made the final scene (which I love regardless) a lot more satisfying.

What is the root of his hunger for power? How much of his quest is a hunger for power and control over others (rooted in a fractured and tragic sense of self)? and how much is it rooted in his desire to help? Where is that line?

Any of these questions or any other questions we could enjoy exploring with Viktor become tampered with and weakened by the fact that a vague magical entity is controlling him in a vague and unrelatable way.

In short, 'How much of Viktor is still Viktor?' is a far less interesting question than. 'how is Viktor going to act, change, and learn? ' We are forced to ask the first at the cost of the second. He clearly is not fully himself this season.

The Dropping of Themes and Traits

Season 1's exploration of Viktor was multi-layered and fascinating. I feel like we got to see the establishment of a kind-hearted, sometimes awkward yet quite funny, passionate scientist.

I don't feel we see much of any of this in season 2. The stupid fucking orb overrides a lot of the traits we've come to know and love. This would have been cool if done with an ounce of care, understanding, or autonomy.

In season 1, we see Viktor in a position of powerlessness over and over. We see Viktor ignored and looked down upon by those in power both for his disability and, crucially, for his status as a Zaunite.

We're introduced to him as someone who is desperate to prove himself and carve a place for himself. He knows he's brilliant. And he knows he can help people with that big brain of his. That's all he wants. And he wants to make his mark (something I theorize is rooted in his loneliness as well as his ambition)

(Side note: I find a lot of the debate on whether or not Viktor is insecure a little silly because you can be both confident and insecure. He's incredibly secure in his abilities as a scientist, but I fully do believe he places all his worth on his work because he's not as confident in other places - represented visually by him trying to point out his boat when Sky is looking at him in the flashback. A 'don't look at me look at what I've made' type thing.)

Anyways. Viktor is willing to risk his position as an assistant and, honestly, his position at the academy and in Piltover as a whole to help Jayce. This is not just because he's 'lol so chaotic' or whatever. This is actually quite calculated. He knows he will get nowhere in Piltovian society without bending rules, because Piltover was not built for people like him.

"Do you think it was my life's ambition to be an assistant?"

But even in taking that huge step for himself, his new role is complicated.

We see him sit through meetings where his people are talked about like burdens. We see his closest (and honestly only) ally and partner speak over him in meetings and overrule his desires and wants when it comes to the future of hextech in massive ways. We see Jayce call all Zaunites 'dangerous' (I love jayce... don't shoot me please. But we do often forget that this does canonically happen and what makes Jayce so incredible is that he grows from this point)

The moment on the bridge directly causes him not to tell Jayce about what he's doing to himself. Jayce apologizing right after doesn't matter so much as it reinforces one of Viktor's fears: he is alone.

We see his illness, !!!!caused by Piltover's oppression!!!!, take over. We see him and Jayce grow apart. We see the way his loneliness impacts his desperation and the way his desperation impacts his loneliness and we see the way he's so damn afraid and just wants to live. We see how much he wants to help people, and how even though he's tried so hard he never got to achieve that because the limits of this society just don't allow for it.

Season 1 Act one is Viktor taking action for himself. season 1 Acts 2 and 3 are a brutal reminder that no matter how hard he works. No matter how hard he claws. He will always be who he is. And that makes him Powerless in this society. I honestly find it a really compelling storyline in terms of the 'bootstrap theory' and debunking that - but a different topic for a different time!

At the end of the season, he's able to gain a huge amount of power - speaking at the council about freeing his city - through Jayce's platforming and allyship. But at the end of the day it doesn't matter, because what the council is doing is too little too late - people in Zaun are too tired and too hurt - and he gets caught in the crossfire.

Despite all this, Season 2 does not engage with Viktor's being a Zaunite outside of the fact that he returns to Zaun first. But the themes explored related to class and power are gone - as they are with everyone else really.

It makes sense to me that one of the first things Viktor would do when granted a new body and new power would be to go and try to help people in Zaun, but the ambiguous mechanisms of the magic inside him, the immediate divorce with Jayce, and the bizarre way he goes about it don't make this land.

And even the return is rendered sort of meaningless. Where is the personal connection to this place? Why are we given no details related to his past here? Why doesn't he return to somewhere more personal for him?

He speaks in this cold, unaffected monotone. This healing ability seems to be the 'recursive impulse' - so him finally getting to help people just like he wanted feels rooted so much in the arcane influence it becomes murky and strange.

This is more nitpicky, and I'd be okay with it being ignored in the right context - but another aspect of his character that gets dropped is his work as a scientist. His desire to help people not through magic, but through invention. This would have been fascinating. (They try to keep this alive through vague allusions to 'look at what I've created' blah blah but again, so much of it is all ORB)

What inventions would a fully autonomous Viktor who decided to leave Jayce and return to Zaun of his own fruition create? Would they toe the line between inventions of progress and inventions of destruction?

Guess we'll never know!

Speaking of weapons. Let's talk about weapons. Let's talk about Viktor's vehement opposition to weapons not being explored within the context of his relationship with Jayce or outside of the rule that there are none allowed in the commune - which becomes quite meaningless when he agrees to work with Ambessa. Yes - he saw those blueprints on the table. But that's all we get.

Also, the fact that Jayce just unquestionably builds hextech weapons in the finale, and they're used as a good thing and a way to fight off Noxus, makes me want to claw my own hair out. Like - my themes ! Not my precious themes !

Let's also talk about him working with Ambessa. There's no build-up to that decision, not near enough character work to make that believable and considering the way the plot is written elsewhere, I fully believe this is a huge part of the problem of the writer's room dropping the issue of class. The idea that Viktor, the character that they set up, would ever willingly work with Ambessa is laughable. There are so many other ways he could have gotten to the hexcore in his fully evolved form, easily bested Jayce, and evolved. And they did absolutely nothing in the writing of season 2 to make that an interesting or satisfying choice.

An arc is only an arc if there is substance between point a and b. There's no substance here. There's vague orb. There are little glimpses of the pain he's in because of his separation from Jayce. Teeny tiny allusions to him trying to shut down his emotions. That's simply not enough.

You cannot bring a character who values choice and autonomy, whose been made to feel so powerless and is empathetic, to "choice is meaningless" without a deep study of his psychology and pain. Viktor taking away the autonomy of others, inhabiting their bodies. Being super chill with it. Okay. Coo.

Where does his desire for evolution even come from? For real? Because they seem to mistake Viktor's ambition with his desire for perfection, which is something that was never really... brought up? It could be believable that he felt this way. But where were the signs of this? Not just in season 1 but in season 2. He always wanted to help, not make humanity perfect. Because this is grounded in so little emotional logic I assume we're supposed to be satisfied with the idea that magic orb + machine herald form = ??? this ??? like ??? why???

If he wants to create a world where nobody can feel pain or complex emotions of any sort anymore, which is not psychologically where he was at the end of season 1 at all despite all he went through, you have to give us an event (ideally multiple) in season 2 that could break his mind this badly. Jayce killing him could have been this, but it happened so fast and was executed so impersonally that it doesn't work. He doesn't really acknowledge it happened the next time they see each other. Which... would probably be important to do... again emotional logic where?

His entire speech about humanity at the end of episode 6 feels like it's trying to be a catalyst. But it also feels... incredibly generic and impersonal. It felt written to play over a flashy montage of all the other characters fighting. Not for Viktor. If this was Viktor's moment where he finally snaps, we should probably focus on Viktor. And, of course, it doesn't help that he has this odd monotone this whole time, as if he's not fully in control of himself (this is not a rip on Harry Lloyd at all. He did what he was told and did it very, very well.)

Because remember. They wanted us to ask this. They wanted us to ask how much of this was orb. I think because they knew on some level they could not create a compelling enough story to get viktor where they wanted him to be for some reason without orb. That none of this would make sense without the vague spice of the arcane. And guess what it still doesn't.

Becuase people will not relate to a vague arcane influence. Connect to it. We would want to see what actually in his life made him become this. What in his psychology outside of magic orb made him do this? They provide vague tastes of this in the same way La Croix flavors its drinks.

Brought Back Wrong Can Work: Here's Why This One Didn't

I also really hate the trope of killing off characters only to bring them back. And back again. And... again. Because guess what. It takes one of the core elements of the human experience - death- and cheapens it. This for sure happens with Viktor the second time he dies.

But what i do like about bringing someone back from the dead is when you consider how doing so can bring someone back wrong. Or changed.

But because the orb is so impersonal. So bland. Such a vague sinister force that has very little to do with character, it doesn't... work. It doesn't hit. Viktor doesn't really grapple with being brought back from the dead against his will in a meaningful way.

Timing

You can see concepts of a plan, if you will, within this story. I can see how Viktor would naturally go to the undercity after waking up changed with new healing powers. But it happens way to fast. So bizarrely. I can see how he would build a society like this (of course, the power of that is dulled because orb and by the fact that we don't see it happen). I can see how the pain of being rejected and left behind by the only person who made him feel like he wasn't alone (Jayce) could have lead to a category 5 'make me evil' sort of meltdown.

Becoming the Herald, asking Singed to begin the transformation, is the only true time in this show in act 2 (before his final moments) where it feels like he's making a choice for himself. But again, we get so little time with him. To see his emotions. To elegantly point from that moment with Jayce to Viktor's need to transform and in doing so rid himself of emotion (something that they did not expand on enough ) Like oh my god, how much more satisfying would it have been to see Viktor torn apart by his own emotions - in his own viktor way - and to have singed offer him a way out of his pain - and then have viktor take it. There are certain things that should be obvious.

But It's both the timing of and the structure of the story - how quickly we cut between plotlines - that makes this really hard to follow. That makes moments that could be something feel rushed and sloppy.

Let's Talk about Sky

Viktor's guilt over sky was absolutely reasonable to explore, but it was not.... all that haunted him. To make Sky the sole guide/companion to him in the astral/arcane headspace I found to be a bizarre and honestly kind of offensive choice.

Amanda overton said she was used as a "Jayce substitute" essentially. And... why? Literally why. Why would you write a character whose sole deal is having an unrequited crush on a man only to bring her back to be 'the embodiment of his guilt and loneliness' as well as a 'substitute' - it feels... icky to me? Just in a writing women and especially women of color point of view? And it didn't feel true to Viktor's character either.

I think if we actually got to know sky better in season 1, this would have worked because it would have been obvious how different she was, how she was a product of his mind or the hexcore or whatever (the lore being vague here doesn't help...)

Plot Twist because I keep hating on Orb: They Could Have Made The Orb Really Cool

Here's the thing. Magic influence on its own can be used to write extremely compelling plots. Walk with me.

Imagine Viktor wakes up. Immediately knows something's wrong with him. That something inside him is toying with him. Making him see things (visions of not only sky, but maybe his parents, Jayce, Heimer). He wakes up earlier in act 1. Despite his anger, he stays with jayce in order to better understand himself and his powers. All the while, he is haunted by whispers and visions of the hexcore. What if it whispers to him of his own insecurities and failures?

What if Things with Jayce are tense. Jayce has to admit to making weapons again, in an argument leading to more haunting visions from the hexcore offering him an out: emotional numbness. You would never have to feel again Viktor. If you let me in fully, you would never have to be alone again. You'd be more powerful, Viktor.

Imagine Viktor is there during that attack ambessa orchestrated. That he has the horror of witnessing Jayce wield his hammer in a genuine attempt to defend himself and the people he loves. He sees first hand how hextech is being used for destruction in a way that horrifies him.

Imagine him being accused of being a part of it because he's a Zaunite - humiliated in some way. Publicly. Imagine the emotional trauma of this resulting in a falling out so devastating he embraces his visions of the hexcore - gives into the numbness. And only then leaves. With the hexcore... he feels better than he has in years. He hopes he can give the gift of this to others. Now he is under orb influence, but now the way he's gotten there is more satisfying to me at least.

Now imagine him fighting the orb influence in key moments. Imagine the color in his eyes coming back. Imagine Viktor's relationship with the arcane being more of a dance than a vague entanglement. Imagine its influence haunting him in the same way Jinx's visions haunt her. Imagine it being personal rooted in his character.

Old Man Viktor

Listen. I am the old man Viktor connoisseur. I love him. I love the idea of him. I wrote a whole fic about him, during which I had to spend a lot of time with the story. It's sort of... very much impossible to make much sense of?

I'm not mad at the fact that it's an obvious retcon. Honestly, because I think from a storytelling perspective, it worked a lot better than most of the decisions they made this season.

But I'm not a fan of (shocking) how little time we spend with him. How little chance we get to understand his motivatons. And also. What the fuck he said to Jayce to make Jayce's first line of action killing him? In my fic, I made it that Jayce needed to shoot Viktor to get the hexcore out, so he could communicate to viktor without influence. But that felt like heavy lifting I shouldn't necessarily have to do for something so important. It also doesn't feel like a compelling or satisfying question to make your audience have to wrestle with.

The Final Scene

Want to say upfront I am not one of the people who did not like Jayce's speech.

I was quite moved by it. And aside from the perhaps out of place mention of the illness brought on by Piltover which I can understand the criticism for, I felt it was beautiful. (I am disabled btw)

That being said. I think i'd be a sobbing mess on the floor if the themes Jayce is presenting in his speech were more present throughout season 2. Because we really don't see this enough - the desire for perfection.

I'm also not one of those people who thinks Viktor's insecurities weren't present in season 1. To me, they were and were obvious, but not enough in his motivations and actions in season 2 to make Jayce's speech land like it could.

I really loved Jayce's arc in season 2. Him immediately embracing Viktor after he woke from the goo was surprising but felt right. But I wish they had more genuine conflict rooted in their conflict in season 1 that would allow their final moment to land even harder.

I really liked the final scene, and it made me an emotional mess. But weirdly, I'd almost like it as a short film removed from the context of the season two, which says just how little Viktor's arc this season contributed to the moment.

Final Thoughts

I'm so sorry I went so in-depth. I just love him as a character and feel he was very much not done justice.

We can attribute some of this to the lack of time. But when you know you have a lack of time, you need to write with that in mind instead of trying to do it all. And ultimately, I found a lot of scenes this season a waste of precious time. They had so many characters alone contemplating something intangible or alone and trapped for episodes. They didn't plan this with the care and precision needed to pull it off.

I also want to note that I know I say here a lot that there's a lot they needed to make "more obvious". This is not because I'm stupid. But when you're a writer, you need to know what to highlight and what you can leave vague so you leave your audience exploring the right nuances and asking the satisfying questions.

Anyways umm. The end. Holy shit, I'm so sorry I wrote so much.

[anachronistic-falsehood]

Vash and Femininity: Trigun Stampede and its Themes of Bodily Autonomy, Exploitation, and Vague Gender Fuckery

alright sit the fuck down. we're gonna talk about THEMES

I was on Twitter- terrible idea usually, but a couple people I follow made some tweets that got me thinking about Trigun's overall themes, and here we are. So let's talk about some themes in Tristamp! And I'll take a couple looks at Trimax as well, just for fun :3

Let's look at how the showrunners utilize gender roles and exploitation of feminine characters to show how unhealthy Knives' obsession with his ideal of Vash is, and how horrific his exploitation of Vash and the Plants is.

Vash, from the beginning of Tristamp, is someone who cares about people's choices. When people kill others in front of him, he reiterates that whether someone lives or dies is not another person's choice to make. This is something he learned from Rem (a prominent female figure in his life). He refuses to kill people because that is not his choice to make. To kill someone is the ultimate removal of their bodily autonomy. They can no longer make any choices at all; they're dead.

Vash is also someone who has almost no choice in what path his life takes. He's constantly dragged around by outside forces, namely situations that are caused by Knives (which we'll get into later). Vash doesn't make things happen, things happen to Vash. The majority of events that occur are not his fault. He's pushed and pulled in a thousand different directions. His entire life is completely out of his control.

This can be seen as early on in his life as the Fall, something he had no control over and had no idea he even had a part in. Even later, in the ship with Luida and Brad, after he's been rescued from the desert, he's kept in handcuffs right up until he's shown to be of use to them and the Plant on their ship. After that, he could theoretically say "no, I don't want to go to other ships and heal their plants," but he doesn't. He's Vash. He's helpful and nurturing at his core, and these people have done so much for him just by letting him stay, so he'll do whatever they ask, no question.

This carries over into his adulthood. At Jeneora Rock, he goes to look at their Plant at one simple request, doesn't protest when he's dragged into a duel-- he doesn't take initiative unless someone's life is immediately at stake. He lets people tell him what to do and lets himself get dragged around by the wrist. He doesn't even pretend to have control over his life like Trimax Vash does, which I mean. Fair. Why pretend to have a grip on your existence when it's impossible to do anything without a gun pointed at your head?

Vash is a very passive character. He's nurturing, kind, gentle- he's a guy that fits a lot of very typical feminine character stereotypes. If you wrote this same story but made him a woman, I wouldn't bat an eye (but I would definitely be looking at it a lot more critically, what with the amount of stereotypically nurturing/motherly female characters in media already.)

This contrasts directly with Knives. He makes a decision and carries through no matter what stands in his way. He takes initiative. If Vash is a passive character, Knives is an active character. Wherever he goes, he leaves a lasting imprint. He makes shit happen! If outside forces make things happen to him, he'll go out of his way to make sure that particular force doesn't affect him again.

These two tweets I saw are what got me thinking about this originally. I just feel like here's a good place to put them as a segue into talking about episode 11.

Episode 11 is where a lot of this feminine imagery really just. Explodes in your face. IT'S RIGHT THERE. You can't dance around it if you try. And it kind of reaches a peak when the connection reaches 100%, the gate opens, and. well. THIS happens to the Plants.

Plants, in both Trimax and Tristamp, are almost always typically feminine-looking. Knives and Vash are the only two who are male or even masculine at all. Knives, as the most masculine out of all of them, is the one trying to take charge, and mould the world as he sees fit, to a degree that is detrimental to both him and everyone else. And Vash-- passive, feminine, kind and nurturing, whose Angel Arm in the manga always sprouts decidedly feminine-looking Plant parts-- is the one being exploited for Knives' plans. It's no mistake that they made the giant plant formation at the end of ep 11 look like a giant woman that almost resembles Rem.

Vash wants people to make their own choices and keep their autonomy when it comes to their bodies and lives. Knives is the exact opposite. He wants all Plants to become independent and he uses Vash to achieve that goal, without asking what Vash wants or even knowing what the Plants themselves would prefer. He exploits Vash for the soul purpose of trying to make these Plants have Independent Plant babies. He's completely incapable of seeing that his choices are not for the greater good! He thinks he's saving them, but none of his actions are for the good of anyone but himself. He’s just violating them for his own gain.

They're really leaning into gender roles for these guys, but in a way that screams "HEY, LOOK AT THIS! ISN'T IT FUCKED UP? LOOK AT HOW FUCKED UP THAT IS. LOOK AT THIS, AND BE UNCOMFORTABLE, AND KNOW THAT IT IS FUCKED UP."

Because it is! It's so extremely fucked up. They're using this imagery and these roles, something that makes most of us intrinsically uncomfortable, to drive home how unhealthy Knives relationship with his ideal of Vash is. That's the point. We're supposed to be uncomfortable with this.

Now of course there's some nuance to it. Like, you could see Knives as somewhat of a feminine and/or queer-coded figure as well, ESPECIALLY if you look at some of his panels in the manga, which could in turn lead to themes about infighting and control within marginalized communities, but that might be something for another post. :3

And there's definitely different ways you could take this! Vash, with all this feminine imagery, could be either transfem or transmasc coded, depending on what way you'd rather see it, which could lead into themes of how people outside the norm constantly face a lack of bodily autonomy and are exploited for purposes outside their boundaries. We could also look at Wolfwood and his lack of choice over joining the Eye of Michael and becoming the Punisher, and how masculine men (particularly men of colour) are often forced into violent roles against their will. If we look at Trimax, the exact same could be said for Livio/Razlo and people with disorders such as DID/OSDD.

There are many different ways you could spin these themes, some of which I don't feel personally qualified to discuss. If anyone who is qualified to talk about Wolfwood or Livio/Razlo or even other characters related to these themes, then god PLEASE add onto this post or make a post and tag me or something. I would love to read it!

Anyway, in conclusion: Vash is a feminine figure constantly taken advantage of and exploited and and he's so incredibly trans/nonbinary-coded that it drives me insane. Thank you

[nyaagolor]

What are your thoughts on Apollo Justice (the character)?

OH BOY. OHHHHHH BOY. I have a fever and some free time lfg.

So honestly, I think part of the reason I love Apollo so much is because he runs parallel to Phoenix but also counter to him at the same time. I always saw Simon and Athena as the successors-- in terms of ideology and job and all that other stuff-- to the Phoenix-Edgeworth dynamic and status rather than Apollo and Klavier. Athena and Simon, to me, feel like extensions of the arcs of Phoenix and Edgeworth + the vibes of the original trilogy. Apollo and Klavier ( who I will not talk about bc we will be here all day)? They're the antithesis.

Apollo Justice The Game directly foils the original trilogy in so many ways, but I think even on a more base thematic level it runs counter to a lot of the ideas that we take for granted about the original trilogy, and because Apollo sits at the center of this, the things I love about the game are encapsulated in why I like him. There are a ton of themes in the ace attorney trilogy-- support networks, faith, trust, the truth-- and Apollo is defined by their limits, their failures, and their absence. He is let down, kicked around, defined by abandonment and betrayal and distrust. Apollo is defined by everything that Phoenix is not, and bc of how the timeline goes we don't really get any retribution for that, just a steady march forward, and I think that gives me a lot to think about with his character

Phoenix's arc right from Turnabout Sisters is about the building of a support network, and the ways that developing this support is integral for when things go wrong. We contrast Phoenix with Godot, Maya with Dahlia, and see how people left to stew in their resentment can chase vengeance to dark places (wow I wonder who also does this after the death of a dear friend leading to a crusade of misplaced revenge that almost leads someone they care about being killed.). With Apollo we get to stand on the precipice of resolution, but the important part is we don't get it. Apollo's life falls off the rails, and he's the one left to pick up the pieces.

We see through him how our trust can be betrayed by people of good and bad intentions, and the lingering consequences that has on one's ability to not only trust the people around them but themselves. And yeah!! That's why I adore him so much-- he's tested not by the possibility of failure like Phoenix often is, but climbing up from the reality of it. It's less "how do we make our way out of this mess before it goes nuclear" and more "things are already destroyed-- where do we go from here?". It has more of an element of recovery than prevention to me, and I think that's a fascinating avenue to explore in stories like these. Apollo pushes the envelope of the themes of the narrative and the characters-- he is the epitome of what it looks like when things fall apart, and it gives him and the trilogy characters something to reconcile

A lot of people have complained that Apollo barely feels like the protagonist in his own game, but that's honestly a huge part of the reason why I love him so much. He's defined by the spaces between, the limits and failures of things we had up to this point taken to be true, and left with a pretty limited degree of autonomy through it all. He's pushed around and puppeteered by people who mean well and those who don't, and I feel like a major theme of AA4 that I love but don't often see talked about is "what does it mean to have autonomy-- and by extension, control? What does it mean to take it back? What does it mean to lose it, and what does it mean when you'd do anything to keep it." Most of what I said is only partially resolved bc AA4 is... a game. A technically finished game. but!! Because it eviscerates our expectations of the franchise so thoroughly AND leaves open so many avenues, it makes Apollo and the rest of his crew some of my favorite characters because there's so much you can think about and do with them!!

also he's like. An insect to me. <3

[icyrambles]

y'know i love idw1. it is by far my favourite continuity purely because it has the balls to actually do some weird fucked up shit with those robots but one of my forever gripes with the series was how they handled the combiners.

also spoilers for idw1 (not massive but enough that i should warn ya if you haven't read through the series)

not in the sense that i hate combiners or combination but mostly just because i think it's weird that they never tackle the horror of being a combiner. it's never really touched on that most of the combiners were forced together and that combining has a permanent effect on a cybertronian's mind.

sure you've got prowl but idw is written so that the reader is meant to hate prowl, or at the very least dislike him, so you're automatically geared to not give a fuck if he's suffering a little bit. and his relationship with the constructicons is never really given the screentime it probably should've gotten so we never get to hear their opinions on being forcibly fused with an autobot's mind. (clearly they don't seem to mind it at the very least but i have a hard time believing that they just magically were okay with suddenly being part of a gestalt)

first aid literally shows up on cybertron with five other guys that he's only vaguely familiar with and starscream just decides that they're "good enough" and forces them into a gestalt. and then we literally never get to see if first aid gave a fuck about this whole situation. hell one of his gestalt members, rook, literally gets killed in lost light and first aid just, doesn't care, and neither do any of his gestalt mates. they're just like, "eh, moving on"

fucking hell, sunstreaker, ironhide, mirage, and motherfucking optimus prime get put into a gestalt with prowl and the most they have to say is "wow prowl you're really fucked up" and that's it. do they just all have to deal with the consequences of being a combiner. optimus never seems to bring it up ever again and neither does sunstreaker, even when they're in the same place together.

the combaticons seem to be rather fucked up about the whole thing, but that's not because being in a combiner team fucked them up, it's more because they combined with a fucking corpse and sharing a mind with a brain dead swindle seriously sucked ass.

like think about the effect of combination for a quick second.

a mech is forced to share everything about themself, from memories, to thoughts and emotions with another group of mecha (up to five depending on the combiner) and they just, don't get a fucking choice in it. idw talks a lot about bodily autonomy, what with the themes of functionalism and cold constructed mechs but they don't seem to apply the same emotion to the combiners. they're just a plot tool to be throw around when the writers needed a big bad to face or a defender against some type of higher force

combiners are only scary because they're big and angry and difficult to control but the real fear should be focused on the existential horror of having a character whose mind is forcibly fused together with another group of people

[desperateknot]

Queequeg's lack of autonomy: features or bugs?

You know, I wanted this to be a proper analysis, but the stressed, sleep-deprived, busy self can only do a semi-ramble, semi analysis.

So I said how Queequeg's lack of autonomy and individuality is not a bug, but a feature.

Just so we are on the same page, I will prove how Queequeg is very obviously lacking in autonomy:

Queequeg: Must be nice. Queequeg: Knowing what you want. Knowing what you desire.

Canto V's dungeon: Floor 2

No… You devoured the crew whole. You painted over their wills, just like the Whales— no! Just like the Pallid Whale! Molding them and shaping them to fit your wants and needs.

Canto V's dungeon: Floor 3

Queequeg: Too late to think. About what is right and what is wrong. To think for myself. Too late.

Canto V's dungeon: Floor 3

The whole dungeon, she was obeying Ahab's orders, getting dragged around and around. Utterly lacking in agency is her main characteristic in her Pequod time, but there is a case to say it wasn't so during her Middle-arc. After all, she did say:

Queequeg: So I killed. And killed. And killed. Not because of orders. Killed with my own hands. Because I wanted to. Because I wanted respect as Big Sister.

I don't doubt her words. However, tribalistic as the Middle is, I think we can speculate on how much of Queequeg's actions stemmed from her own desire, and how much was her complying to its culture without even knowing it.

Either way, even if you disagree that Middle Queequeg was lacking in agency, it's hard to argue that she wasn't in her Pequod times, so we can assume that is a major trait of hers.

Let's go back to The Little Mermaid by Hans Christian Andersen for a sec. I will assume that you are convinced that one of Limbus Queequeg's inspiration is The Little Mermaid. If you are confused with that statement, please read:

The Little Mermaid wants to seek an immortal soul by getting the prince to marry her. I think it is a misconception that she did all (abandoning her family, enduring pain with every of her steps, sacrificing her voice) for love. No, she wants more than that: she wants an immortal soul. There could be a religious reading here, but it is neither relevant to my point nor am I qualify to state it, so I'll leave it. However, one could see how the arrangement of a woman having to win the love of a man and devoting her entire self to him to attain her spiritual fulfillment is very unfair, misogynistic, even. (Unfortunately, I can't explore that theme in Limbus Queequeg's story because sexism apparently doesn't exist in the City and also there are no prominent men in her story either?)

Here, I can go on about traditional heroines and how they are mostly quite lacking in agency too, but I haven't done researches for that. And more, importantly, this trope was intentionally subverted in The Little Mermaid. Hans Christian Andersen is much smarter than me, because he wrote it.

The Little Mermaid isn't just a damsel waiting for someone to save her. Her two displays of her agency are 1. finding the Sea Witch to get a pair of legs and 2. not killing the prince. She has a goal (attaining an immortal soul) and a principle (her love for the prince?) that she holds steadfast. Unfortunately, the one thing that she has been after, the prince's love, is not something that she can control. She can try to seduce him, sure, but his affection is his own. And, without it, she can't get an immortal soul...

But that isn't true, is it? The Mermaid didn't just die and turn into sea foam, fated to never get her immortal soul. She became a daughter of Air. And, with enough good deeds, can gain her own soul. Fortunately for her, this time, the task of getting her soul depends much, much more on herself.

This writing choice is quite intentionally, I believe. I wanted to read more about it, I really do, but the link they cited on Wikipedia led to an Internet Archive article that has been downed (RIP). Anyways, the gist of it is Andersen took inspiration for The Little Mermaid from Undine, in which a water spirit indeed got her immortal soul by marrying a human knight. Anyways, this is what Andersen allegedly wrote to a friend about it.

I have not, like de la Motte Fouqué in Undine, allowed the mermaid's acquiring of an immortal soul to depend upon an alien creature, upon the love of a human being. I'm sure that's wrong! It would depend rather much on chance, wouldn't it? I won't accept that sort of thing in this world. I have permitted my mermaid to follow a more natural, more divine path.

The point, I think, is that the Mermaid doesn't really need the prince's love to gain an immortal soul. That is something she can obtain herself, what she deserves after so much sacrifices, the rewards for her virtues. After the Mermaid was at the mercy of the prince for half of the story, she was given a chance to do good by herself. The opportunity of attaining an immortal soul returned to her.

I just argued above that Queequeg doesn't have autonomy, maybe even from her time in the Middle, but I lied (again). Queequeg also has two acts of agencies her own 1. running away from the Middle and 2:

Queequeg: Dante. Something I wish. Queequeg: I want… Ishmael to… Queequeg: … find her way.

Canto V's Dungeon: Floor 2, and

Woah, those two acts perfectly match the Mermaid's too, wonder how did that happened.

That was Queequeg's only wish, and that was just a bit after she said she was jealous of the Abnormalities for having wishes too :D

Queequeg also got her immortal soul, but...

This is when I think the story falls flat, if you hyperfocus on her. And you...shouldn't have. She is an NPC, who is dead. Only weird nerds like me would analyse the story in her perspective. This is not really a criticism for Canto V or PM's writings (although I do have a problem with it sometimes). I think they did the best they could to flesh out and gave Queequeg a proper ending with the little screen time she got (unlike that one other dead NPC from another franchise that I used to hyperfocus on).

However, what did The Little Mermaid have to do to get her immortal souls? She has to do 300 years worth of good deeds. Even though we didn't get to see it, we can assume that she struggled and grew even more to attain her goal.

What did Queequeg do to get her immortal soul? Um...uh...

Queequeg didn't really grow in the quest. When reunited with Ishmael, "her broken heart" got "unearthed". She nurtured a wish for herself: for Ishmael to find her own path. But, ultimately, she was still...following Ahab's orders. We still have to fight her twice (and thrice if you count her EGO phase).

Queequeg had character developments during her time on Pequod (mostly with the influence of Ishmael). She learned to look forward and to have hope. That got rolled back.

So, essentially, Queequeg got rewarded for...nothing?

Her story has ended. She couldn't do anything to actually gain her immortal soul, her atonement anymore. She is still quite lacking in autonomy. And I think that is a real shame, a bug, even.

That is one of the reasons why I made that swap Ishqueg AU.

______________________________________________________________

I know characters lacking in agencies are often seen as bad written, and a lot of times, they are. However, there is a certain charms to characters who have been deliberately written to have next to 0 agency. This actually reminds me of Iwakura Michihiro from Genshin Impact, an actually pretty prominent NPC in Inazuma's lore, whose only 2 acts of agencies in the lore were 1. leaving home to live in the woods (this one is debatable because he was abused and perhaps driven from home would be a more correct term) and 2. naming his sword. Anything else he did were instructions from his bully/mentor/friend/crush/saviour. And also Carter Scherbius, another NPC from Genshin Impact, who was terminally ill and then turned into goop in an effort to save him and later reincarnated for an experiment.

There is something quite heartbreaking and even beautiful about seeing a characters being dragged and beaten by the narrative. It's relatable. Real people, we, don't usually have control of our lives most of the times. We are dragged around and the beaten by forces we can't understand. We are usually helpless against our fate.

And, what kinds of people who would usually feel helpless against the sheer incomprehensibleness and the cruelty of our vast world? Sailors.

[matamorose]

The decision in TP to drop any interaction between Audrey and Coop was a bad one. I think that their dynamic is a great way to refract a lot of the themes of the show, and it has a lot to do with TP’s multiple ways of viewing “good people.” (Something I’ve been stewing about for a while— hopefully soon I can articulate some of those thoughts)

Anyway,

Audrey is a great character, and it makes perfect sense for her to be intrigued by/attracted to a kind, handsome older man. She’s also badly neglected, and models the ways of gaining power + autonomy + attention that she sees in front of her, something that puts her in danger and is in no way a good thing. I get that all the characters’ ages/the timelines are fucked so there’s some ambiguous wiggle room, but she’s a kid. A very smart and resourceful one who wants to be the mysterious and competent adult that others see as a person, but still.

She wants Coop something fierce, and gets herself into intense peril pursuing that. She's tenacious and smart and badly damaged, and a teenage girl who's ignored + allowed to do whatever she wants, which is a very potent combination.

And Coop is textually attracted to her: I think that that’s very important to understanding a lot of his character, and ignoring it does a disservice to a lot of what the show is saying. MLMT does a lot of heavy lifting to explain and explore a history of childhood sexual misuse + hypersexuality with him, but even in just the show canon I think it’s very apparent and easy to understand that he’s grappling with his attitudes and attraction towards women, and especially with his own past and traumas.

The scene where Audrey surprises him naked in bed had the potential to be the fulcrum moment in their relationship, imo. Cooper is visibly wrestling with his attraction to her— something he knows and expresses aloud would be very wrong to act on— and Audrey is in an extremely fragile state, for all that she was trying to be assertive and take control in a relationship with an older man (a cop, even).

When Cooper lets her down gently and says that what she needs is a friend, that’s a very powerful moment. This is the “adult men sexually abuse young girls” show, but their relationship in particular has been set up to be interesting and alluring— I don’t think that people are nuts for picking up on the very intentional tension. It’s there, you’re supposed to see it.

So when Cooper says that she needs a friend, he makes the right choice, something that he doesn’t have a great track record of doing.

It’s a really powerful thing, that surrounded by all of these men who choose wrongly, and do wrong intentionally, Cooper is maybe the only adult man in Audrey’s life who makes the choice to respect and protect her, and that’s profoundly compelling. Like, I get it if someone wants to take that in another direction.

(There’s a more specific point to be made about Audrey’s father very nearly sexually assaulting her, and another, older man who is into her consciously deciding not to act on that, but I’ll toss it around and try to express it later)

You can debate it all day— which can be interesting and enriching— but for him to enter into a relationship with her would have been a clear, gross abuse of his power, and followed the pattern set by all of the other monstrous men in the show.

TP makes its stance on adult men sleeping with teenage girls crystal clear, there’s no way that they would have had their main character— morally iffy though he can be sometimes— go to bed with the teenage peer of a murder victim and then be like “awesome!” Cooper would be a very different man if he acted on it.

Which, I think is one of those moments where you as the viewer are supposed to look past the aesthetics and how pretty both adult actors are, the same way we all need to look past the quality of the coffee to understand what happened to Laura: a federal agent in his 30s who picks up a rural, neglected teenage lover in the wake of a grisly sex crime + said teenager’s father is a major player in the crime ring that allowed that to happen, is not a good man. That is a real-life horror that follows the framework of the show, and I think that part of the original intention was to leave that avenue open for later in the series, but more on that later.

All that being said, he absolutely thinks about it. He’s very tempted. That’s something that I feel like a lot of people don’t want to admit, but he’s explicitly attracted to her. It’s a testament to his character, and an interesting mirror to his ultimate failure of courage, that he, mister "Give Yourself a Present," was able to recognize a desire as harmful and squash it.

He’s less interesting if you just wave your hand and say “oh, he never even thought about it!” He did. He totally thought about it, he considered it, and wrestled with it, and ultimately came out on top. That’s infinitely more interesting— and IMO fits in better with the backstory established for him— than the idea that he’s just too morally pure and untouchable.

Even so, he elects not to do something that will harm her, and chooses to be her friend instead, something that she badly needs. That scene easily could have transitioned them from a very unequal “will-she-won’t-he” to a friendship that would benefit both of them, and give the characters some more room to flex + explore the facets of their similarities/their links to Laura and what they share with her.

Cooper sees Audrey, instead of blindly buying into her adolescent facade, or just looking past her. Even many of the angles their scenes are shot with reinforce that. He doesn’t ignore her.

I think that all of that goes into making their relationship extremely compelling, and, in my opinion, totally dropping that relationship after a point was just shitty writing. The whole weight of his choice to be her friend and to do right by her + her choice to accept that disappears when the show just truncates that entire plot line and dynamic. She needed that friend, needed and accepted what he was willing to offer her! Not to get shuffled off to the side and into a somewhat baffling plot line

(And if the show had gone on longer, or gone a different direction, I think that that would have been the avenue they chose to hammer in to viewers that as sexy as it sounded to a teenager, this is a bad thing, and that Coop was letting hangovers from past trauma/abuse get the better of him— something that is also very thematically appropriate. In a S3 that never was, I think it’s likely that possessed Coop/his doppelgänger/whatever direction they would have gone in the 90s would have attacked or initiated a relationship with her. TPTR alludes to this, I think, with Mr. C’s fathering Richard.)

I understand that there were tensions on set, and actors/execs had very strong opinions, but I do think that the “okay ew that’s over now” way that the show chops off a major undercurrent is badly done, and that the show is poorer for it.

Anyway, that relationship is one that really bugs me in how it developed in the show. Let me be clear that this is absolutely not an anti-ship post: do as thou wilt, have fun whatever I’m not here to pick a fight, and I really don’t care what other people ship. What strangers want to do with two fictional characters isn’t really my business.

But I don’t think that people are making something out of nothing, there, even if I have a much different stance on it. I think I’ve made my opinion of that relationship as romantic pretty clear at this point, but I have eyes and understand when you’re supposed to pick up on tension between characters.

I think that many people try far too hard to pretend that something very explicitly onscreen isn’t there, because they don’t want to wrestle with the thornier parts of it. (For a show that centers around a child being raped and murdered by her father, a great many watchers get surprisingly precious about unpleasant or even gray subjects, it seems to me.)

But I think it’s a shame that one of the most interesting relationships in the show got cut off so severely, and it’s really interesting to think of how they might have followed through on the punch, had there been fewer disasters surrounding the series.

I went on a little longer than I meant to about the idea of the pair of them as a romantic item, and that’s not the major point of this. Really, it’s that I think both characters lost out on that could have developed into something really compelling, because the bones were there. The setup was very strong, and the scene I talked about above absolutely could have transitioned those two into something, anything, more narratively satisfying and interesting than what we got.

I really like both of them, and I think that there’s a tendency to swing wildly one way or the other with Audrey. She’s much more nuanced than I think a lot of people give her credit for (which in fairness is something that afflicts basically all of the teenage characters, not to mention dear Dale), and there’s a place to think about her in-between outright fetishism a la coquette blogs, and pretending like she has no agency or desire/that her neglect has no impact on what she wants and how badly she’s willing to fight to get it.

She’s a major character in the show for a while, and I don’t like it that A) her character gets sidelined so abruptly B) many people in fandom go out of their way to minimize her role in the story. She’s not even one of my big favorites, I just think that she gets a raw deal.

My favorite thing about the show is the deep and knotted relationships, and I think that there was a warm-up swing and a really big miss with this one.

[dadrielle]

there is a nonzero chance that imogen instead takes over predathos and tames it with the help of her friends and that's actually really cool ngl

Ok I am Very Bad™️ at remembering to check or respond to asks as of late so the fact that I actually saw this one feels very kismet haha. I think that's very much on the table for tonight! No matter the specifics, it's definitely going to be a "struggle from within" situation with the party helping her I reckon. Which makes me incredibly happy since that's what the Hells do, and Matt has been creating mechanics that increasingly allow for non violent interventions (the shard absorption and Delilah sealing rituals) or give the player a way to regain moments of autonomy (the Delaudna fight in particular feels like a blueprint here, to me).

I think the way it actually manifests is going to depend on the nature of Predathos specifically. There are really three potential True Natures I see for it based on how Matt has described it, in conjunction with the campaign themes overall.

First, there's the Predator. I think that's Predathos as assumed, as named, Predathos as the gods and Ludinus and Otohan reckon it. This is a Predathos that can't be reasoned with. It only wants to eat and the only ways to prevent that are killing it, tricking it, or dominating it. This would probably make for the most straightforward fight and Imogen will likely either have to lie her ass off and trick it into Going Away to Someplace Else (which it might not even have a concept of "lying" so that could be easier than one might think) or use the opportunities created for her by her friends– maybe using those strings of fate linking them hm hm?–to try and either beat it in a battle of wills to gain control or straight up, like, domesticate the damn thing. I think I find it the least interesting option because it relies on Predathos not really being fully sentient (though I think it would be DEEPLY funny if at some point Imogen has to make, not another wisdom save, but a fucking animal handling check. Can you IMAGINE.) I think I would find it a bit more satisfying personally if this is not correct just because then both the gods and Ludinus have been wrong all along and it creates a new frame for regarding this being, but we'll see! There is certainly a clear case to be made for it. I've been thinking that if this is the case, maybe the gods could friggin, like, spirit bomb a bunch of their divine energy to create the tastiest looking snack ever and shooting it out into space for Predathos to fetch, leaving them all at close to Artagan levels of power, but I don't favor it as a solution unless the Hells instigate it because I want them to be the ones driving the solution.

Then there's the Child. This seems more like what Matt's going for; he leaned very hard on that imagery, describing the Hallowed cage as a womb, says it has an innocence, that it looks like a child, saying that in its memory of Tengar it's like it was reaching out to suckle nearby. It's mannerisms have that sort of simplicity. And I think it's interesting that after getting whispers on Predathos, Orym started using very simple language and ideas to try and express to it what they were feeling. "I am afraid." I think in this case, it responding to Imogen "I don't understand" when she said "We want to help you, but you'll hurt people. That's what happened before, isn't it?" might be key to the resolution to this kind of encounter. The Child has no real concept of others as complex living beings. I don't think it knows that eating is destroying, that what it does causes fear or pain. In this case, Imogen would not be struggling to take the reins (heh) so much as to explain to it like a child why what it wants to do would hurt others and how that would make other people feel. The Hells are the party of empathy for monsters as much as they are the PVP party, and this would give that key trait a chance to shine. I think it would be neat for this portion of Predathos to end up incarnating as a mortal child the way the Gods did for Downfall, not to get around barriers but just to learn and grow up. Alternatively, it would be neat if they could convince it to pull a Luxon and split itself into lots of little pieces that could all learn and have more manageable sized hungers. Maybe a piece goes in every Ruidusborn; that would create for a VERY story-rich new status quo, because the gods would need to deal with the fact that there are all the pieces in play to reassemble Predathos and doom them. Do they renegotiate with mortals the way the Matron suggested? Do they start a holy crusade to kill Ruidusborn? Do they let it play out and see if Predathos can grow into something that can be reasoned with? Does this version of Predathos need to eat a little bit of divinity and how does that work?

But that also brings me to my last Possible True Nature of Predathos, what I would call the Incomplete, which is a bit more abstract. I think there is also credence to the idea that Predathos isn't so much a child as a piece of a bigger thing, maybe even part of the Luxon. I have to wonder, if you don't understand an emotion like fear, how can you know for sure that what you're feeling is hunger? What if it is emptiness? Loneliness? Being Incomplete? A desire to have and be part of something that is not understandable to a mind who has not had a chance to Be a Person yet, as it were? Perhaps it eats because that is all it knows how to do but underneath that there is another need that must be satisfied. Edun plucked the fruit from the tree when Luz said "Wait! Give it a chance" and the first thing that happened to Edun was each point of light in their form became fixed. The possibilities of Edun collapsed into one. I find it VERY interesting that the Beacon was integral to the creation of the Malleus key, that we have found out about the Aevilux and the way they split themselves like the Luxon and how that is what Opal and Ted were, that the Luxon makes the gods uneasy, that the Kryn Dynasty was so specifically spotlighted among the Exandrian forces by Matt, that he made sure that the Hells went into this battle with potions of possibility. What if the Hells could redirect Predathos from the gods to the beacons? What if instead of destroying the gods, releasing Predathos reassembles the Luxon as its last missing piece, ready to be understood? I don't know, I think @overnighttosunflowers has more solid thoughts on this one than me but it is JUICY AND INTERESTING, and I think it would be similar to the Child battle in execution.

Anyway I'm excited for tonight, haha.

[vixxdaemon]

Would you like to share your thoughts with the public about O’saAbella? Like anything, whether that would be the reason why you started shipping them, au's, scenarios that are running in your head 24/7 ect.

I was hoping for this day to come…

Alright so, it all started when I saw this happen in the confessional cutscene, when you tell O’saa you have a crush on someone from the train. First person he mentions is Abella :

Like, this is undoubtedly meant to be Abella, no doubt. So certainely he must at least perceive her as attractive for him to think of her literally above anyone else. (He does mention Karin instead of you play as Abella but like. Most likely cause it’s just that, you already are Abella so he would not ask you if you are into Abella lol.)

THEN FUNNILY ENOUGH the way I started to ship O’saa and Abella together was by wondering if they were any fics with…Ah, Abella tending to O’saa, if you catch my drift. Take care of him. In bed. Dominating him, gonna say things as they are. (There weren’t any at the time.)

So it lead me to think of them more and actually realize that their dynamic would be entertaining to see and how they would actually make a cute couple. I started to look for more things between them in game, and besides the Party Talks that are pretty fucking funny, I had figured out something.

In the Tunnel 1, exactly where you can recruit O’saa, the only way to get him in your party is having him ask you if you know anything of the tunnels you are in, you HAVE to reply to him in the affirmative.

(Source is on wiki gg, but feel free to go check that out of yourself, you will see that he won’t suggest to join you if you tell him you don’t understand what is happening in the tunnels.)

So, guess who amongst literally everyone in the Contestants that is well versed in machines and more importantly, tunnels ?

That’s right, Abella. The Mechanic.

What I am suggesting right here is that it’s highly likely that «canonically» (as in the intended storyline that happens during Termina), Abella is the person finding O’saa and helping him out. Not only because she knows how the tunnels works, but also she is most definitely one of the few characters that would be willing to take in a wounded person with her and help them get back to their feet in the cast.

Now there isn’t even this evidence we have in canon, but there is also the fact that their personalities are opposites, and even more than that, some of their themes too, all the while having actually quite important points in common. Let me explain.

Abella has grown up a caregiver, having helped her parents take care of her younger siblings since she is a child. She has an actually quite peppy personality beyond that frown on her portrait, she enjoys romance books and literature. She expresses sadness or disgust at death, if not straight up distress when she sees people actively suffering (the people hanging at the ceiling yelling at the shopping district of Prehevil). Abella suffers for others, as she Moonscorches literally while she is trying to find pieces for the train, doing a thing she always did : helping other people.

O’saa has grown up most of his life away from his family, and since really young has adopted a «fend for yourself and only yourself» kind of mentality. He does not care for the homeless, if not immediately mocking them, he is completely unphased at violence and the suffering of others, he even threatens to hurt YOU if you come too close to him for his liking. O’saa suffers for himself, as we can see his Moonscorch reveals his struggle with wishing for his autonomy and escaping the control of higher powers.

That being said, the points in common they have is that they are both very very dependant and self reliant, both very much the kind of character to take matters into their own hands and get their own hands dirty to get what they want. And if they want something, they WILL get it by all means necessary (see Abella’s Ending B of her learning astrophysics and building a whole ass spaceship to get in contact with the Moon, while O’saa’s Ending B is him BECOMING the higher power, aka a cult leader, to not be controlled anymore and instead BE the one in control, which in my opinion is tragic in its own right but I won’t elaborate on O’saa on his own here.)

All that being said, as a couple I would imagine that most of it would happen outside of Prehevil, in a canon divergent ending of Termina.

Abella, knowing O’saa is erudite about magic and the surnatural, would ask to stay in contact with him because she feels the need to know more about what happened during the festival. O’saa would accept, happy to have an occasion to have his ego being stroked while he teaches someone else about what he knows.

The pair would travel the world to learn new things, spend a lot of time together, and Abella would even teach O’saa a thing or two about mechanics as a trade off for him teaching her about the occult.

Eventually both would have feelings about eachother…On Abella’s side it feels natural for it to happen, as they do spend a lot of time with eachother and enjoy eachother’s companies and hobbies. On O’saa’s side though…needless to say he is having an existential crisis because he did not even know having simple, romantic feelings for someone was even possible for him. I think sexual feelings he views as not shameful, because it’s what his body would need and not his feelings, but there he is having a proof that he’s not as dead inside as he tried to be for years.

Abella is aware of this, as O’saa grows visibly more hesitant and dare I even say coy with showing affection to her that goes a bit too uncomfortably close to the line between simple friendship and romantic attentions. She decides to let him figure it out by himself, but that does not mean she doesn’t enjoy seeing him very subtly avoid her gaze when their eyes meet.

I also have. A whole thing with me and associating them with Gro-Goroth and Sylvian imagery. This bit is not a theory or trying to prove anything being canon, but it’s more about symbolism and narratives that I like to associate with them cause I do like some religious imagery. I can most definitely get into detail about it, but the post is already too long as it is by itself LOL

Hopefully this will feed your curiosity.

[pynkhues]

https://www.tumblr.com/pynkhues/763021215378079744/httpswwwtumblrcomnalyra-dreaming762934616351

I love how you mention in your tags here that Lestat is somewhat powerless in s2- or how he is used in the narrative and how different characters use him against each other. Sometimes it feels like Lestat is almost being objectified, if that’s the right word, or maybe things are projected on to him because he’s desirable and has such intense charisma. I do feel like loss of autonomy is such a big theme for him, especially in TVL but also QoTD and beyond, and I’m very interested to see how the show presents that and how seriously they take it (I expect very tbh). It’s pretty unique for a male character to go through some of the things he’s gone through, so I do sort of see the comparison to some gothic heroine characters for that reason, though I think ultimately he goes far outside that as a vampire.

(x)

Oh, he's absolutely objectified in s2, anon. Mm, so there's kind of two things happening, right? On the one hand, you've got Louis genuinely trying to tell this story authentically as he experienced it, but there is also this reality that Lestat has no genuine voice in it beyond a few tokens of love that Louis' held onto - a calling card, a record, a letter. Hell, even Claudia has more than that with her diaries, and so from the get-go we're seeing an impression of Lestat, but what the show does really well is that it lets different intent come into play in the second season.

Louis' retelling of Lestat in the modern timeline is one thing, but he has two alternate retellings, right? One is the goading, provocative, mean one that he tells Daniel in 1973, and the other is Dreamstat who is neither ghost nor memory, but rather a fantasy Louis can control. While it feels like he just pops up, we know a part of Louis does it intentionally because he lets him go intentionally. I've said it a few times, but it's his desire from the s1 finale wrought true - he wanted Lestat dead and he wanted him all to himself, and now he has both. This is a Lestat that he can seek comfort from, that can tell him what he wants to hear, and! Pointedly! Devastatingly! Fuck and kill again! It's not all sweetness for Louis, he wants to project Lestat's image onto other men - a process that's dehumanising not just for the men Louis fucks and kills, but for Lestat too.

At least Louis' is understandable if not justifiable as a trauma response, but Armand has a lot of intent in how he chooses to recount his time with Lestat in Paris, something I think the show does pretty pointedly by including Nicki but having Armand drop Gabrielle. The fact that he and Lestat only almost have sex in the books before Lestat's badly triggered with memories of Magnus, which I talked about a bit here, feels too relevant to the themes the show's exploring for them to change it much? The fact then that Armand would re-write their history so explicitly sexual, even beyond any other edits, definitely lends not only to the literal objectification of Lestat, but feels pretty icky to put it mildly. Again though, he's a fantasy.

But yeah! More to your point, haha, I think s2 did a lot about showing Lestat's perceived power and then deliberately undermining it in a way that both emphasises how much we don't know the real Lestat yet, but as you said, emphasises this throughline with him as not really having a lot of genuine autonomy. Which makes sense! The fact that Rolin wanted the writers to read at least the first four books when starting IWTV I think goes to your point about that, as it really is such a huge part of his arc, like:

IWTV: Voiceless and without a point of view as it's entirely Louis' recounting

TVL: His lack of autonomy in his mortal life then his turning as an abduction and rape allegory, that gets revisited as a trigger point over and over.

QOTD: Akasha abducting him to use him in her plot (and I believe assaulting him too? I'd need to re-read it before I feel I can dive into that tbh).

TTOTBT: Has his physical body literally stolen under misleading terms.

I wrote in my Byronic Hero post that I was going to go into this and then didn't, haha, but this is kind of what I'm talking about with the female gothic vs the male gothic. While rape and physical violation is a huge part of the male gothic subgenre, often being used pretty maliciously as a symbol of corruption and to amplify horror, the violation and desecration of the body is still a really central part of the female gothic too, and it's often explored in different ways.

The female gothic is generally considered to include elements of terror / dread more than horror, and it builds to things like loss of autonomy because it's an experience women know. Lestat's not 'woman-coded' as a character, and he's not a gothic heroine, but he is a protagonist in a female gothic narrative. The result of that is that Anne has included things in his arc that are specifically the most frightening to women, because that's what the female gothic is about, and I think that's what a lot of people get confused in the gothic heroine debates.

Some of Louis' horrors are going to resonate with women. It's not because he's the beaten down housewife, it's because Anne was writing for a female audience, and to build dread and terror for women readers is to utilise things that women specifically understand and find frightening. That's what the female gothic means, and it's why Louis and Lestat are both victim and perpetrator as male protagonists of a female gothic novel series.

[tornoleander]

I know you tend to like Skybound most out of all the seasons, but I finally found a blog about Ninjago that doesn’t try to shy away from the more mature themes and I desperately need to talk about the fact that Morro (who died at like fifteen) is drinking alcohol in Lloyd’s body. Like there isn’t any single way that this would be considered okay! Morro would have been too young to drink when he was alive and Lloyd was around the same age physically. The only thing that you could argue is that Morro died a long time ago so now he would be considered way older than fifteen. But that means nothing when you add Lloyd into the equation! Also, the night watchman! We never see him again and last we see of him, he’s alone in a room with Morro who is possessing Lloyd’s body. He was the only witness to something Morro was trying to keep a semi-secret. If Morro used Lloyd’s body to actually kill people, that adds a whole new layer of trauma.

Oh they did that, I also think about it sometimes.

“It’s implied” in the situation meaning yeah it was but we can try to deny it still.

And you are correct, it’s messed up.

He was already controlling Lloyd, a trauma I rarely seen go into depth the way I wanna read. He lost FULL bodily autonomy, none of his actions were his own and he must watch Morrow use his strength to hurt the people he loves.

Just eating would be enough for me to get pissed. Like how fuckn dare you put something in my body. But Morrow intoxicated an unwilling minor. That happened.

Huh.

And yes, Morrow is supposed to have been around the ninjas age when he died, drinking alcohol should not be something he can say “it’s been a while” about and has troubling implications for him and his already troubled past. (Though, he’s definitely old enough by the time he intoxicated Lloyd)

I’ll Have to look into the night watchman thing I think he was seen in a different scene? But if he hasn’t been seen since, Morro killing could be a good theory.

Mmm yes I “like” skybound. I do like thinking about mature themes I know some people really don’t like people “ruining” kids shows but please THEY PUT IT THERE. Also I am wholesome and kid friendly ALL DAY for work I LOVE my job but I let myself be 18 so you will suffer my Lego angst here.

[ilynpilled]

Have you seen that post on how Cersei pushing Jaime into forcing sex on her is an abuse technique on her end?

no, but i checked his tag now lol. while i know that george explicitly expressed that the sept scene was intended as consensual by him, i still believe that jaime’s pattern of pushing to have sex with cersei, and how, speaks of an unhealthy relationship with consent in this relationship on his part too, a lack of respect for boundaries on his part, as well as objectification on his part that cannot be removed from the context of this society’s gender dynamics, especially when it concerns cersei’s themes and her character (to contextualize and expand on what i mean, heres a very quick collection of quotes regarding how jaime’s relationship to cersei, sex, swordplay, and even violence blend or function similarly in relation to very heavy dissociative tendencies):

i understand the jc dynamic’s set up:

“She has never come to me, he thought. She has always waited, letting me come to her. She gives, but I must ask.”

“She wanted to draw his face to hers for a kiss. Later, she told herself, later he will come to me, for comfort. “We are his heirs, Jaime,” she whispered. “It will be up to us to finish his work. You must take Father’s place as Hand. You see that now, surely. Tommen will need you . . .”

i also understand how george seems to establish communication and patterns within this dynamic that reinforce his expressed intention, which is also apparent in a scene that a third party witnesses and how that mirrors the sept, and i obviously also do not think these two would do all of this healthily and establish things akin to safe words (lmao) (though i take issue with a lot of things here still when it comes to grrm and how consent is framed):

and i understand george framing cersei utilising sex, or even love and affection, as a means to have power, and that being a big factor in this relationship’s dynamic and how she takes control (see instances when cersei does initiate— jaime’s narration is not entirely correct, we know of the inn, which is unique but important, so it is interesting that he chooses not to connect this until feast, that would mean confronting something he doesn’t want to— and what motives she has: “She smiled for him, so sweetly. “Do you remember the first time I came to you like this? It was some dismal inn off Weasel Alley, and I put on servant’s garb to get past Father’s guards.” “I remember. It was Eel Alley.” She wants something of me. “Why are you here, at this hour? What would you have of me?” His last word echoed up and down the sept, mememememememememememe, fading to a whisper. For a moment he dared to hope that all she wanted was the comfort of his arms.”

but i do not think that changes much about the issues on jaime’s part, or how patriarchal hegemony works, or how a lot of fandom frames cersei. we know cersei only enjoys sex with jaime (it is sex that is categorized as different from lancel, osney, taena, and robert — all of these also cannot be conflated for obvious reasons — by her), she says so, but that doesn’t change that she still believes that it is her only source of power and means through which she can reach equal ground within her society. we can understand why cersei thinks and functions this way: we understand how she was reared and how she was viewed as a sexual object and a tool for political transactions with no autonomy since childhood by every adult around her. we see how and why jaime is needed by her to feel “whole”, and how he is her “sword.” it is also not difficult to acknowledge that while the abusive dynamic is not what i would consider equal: jaime does not verbally berate her to the degree she does him, does not physically hit her and throw things at her, does not use her or emotionally abuse her the way that she does him (and no, i personally do not agree with people that say they are equally terrible to each other or they equally benefit from this relationship), jaime still ultimately has some power over her due to his gender (the physical is obvious, but on top of that this is a medieval society with extreme levels of gender inequality), and nothing will really erase that because this relationship does not exist in a vacuum. this is not diminished by how this relationship functions, her status as queen and jaime’s status as her kg, and other variables that play into the unequal power dynamic. it will always have to be acknowledged that cersei is a woman + everything that comes with that being the case in a medieval society with complete patriarchal domination. i also think the unhealthy belief system of “we are one. you are me. i am you. we are two halves of a whole” will have effects on the understanding of consent and how both parties function in the relationship. i think this extreme delusion would lead to a plethora of issues when it comes to consent and boundaries. with cersei too, the moment she (including her offering sex) is rejected by her “other half” she emphasizes and says things like “you swore that you would always love me.” and “i was a fool to ever love you” or starts verbally berating him, emasculating him, being ableist etc. this relationship operates on some absurd conditions and ultimatums, it is not healthy, hence things like “the things I do for love” too. in reality, it really is the opposite of “unconditional destined lovers.” both of them have things that they end up prioritizing over the other, and both have an incorrect idea of the other that fits their specific needs and wants. i just despise this whole “cersei groomed and manipulated jaime since they were children” bullshit. a child is not capable of this. teenaged cersei was navigating the strict and dehumanising boxes that her father and society forced her into since she was 7 years old. she looked to her brother for comfort and escape as much, if not in many ways more at this point, as he did. i also think cersei escapes into the relationship to subvert those societal patterns in many ways (i have seen people discuss that jaime views her as an equal and a person more so than others: “If I were a woman I’d be Cersei.”) but this still does not change the flaws that jaime has. he is not only a man in westeros, he was also reared by tywin lannister lmao. he is a misogynist with a skewed understanding and view of a lot of things. no point in denying this.

and all this aside, i also understand “mutual abuse is not real”, and understand the damage ignoring that can do to narratives revolving around victims of abuse, and the issue with framing ‘retaliation’ or ‘bad victims’ as mutual abuse (see discussions regarding robert and cersei for example and some of the putrid narratives that come out of that), but we are talking about fiction and its themes, discussing an author’s known intention and execution of that intention (that we can also criticize), as well as what is written in a text, and i do not think we should be ignoring the nuances when it comes to applying a modern lens to a medieval society with some very different and more severe and strict paradigms when it comes to gender inequality and the oppression of women.

here are george’s actual comments that i do not believe contradict the bulk of my perspective either tbh:

[xerith-42]

Stop blaming characters for bad writers

Seriously, stop fucking doing this. While this is a post that could certainly be applicable to MANY fandoms, I'm mainly directing this whole rant at my target audience which is mentally ill minecraft obsessed freaks.

If a character is written badly, gets badly fumbled by the creator, or has the ball dropped in regards to their arc in some way, a lot of people will blame the character, as if they're a real conscious person making these decisions. When they aren't. They're a block man literally being controlled by two people who just aren't very good writers and one or both of them are incredibly sexist, kind of racist, ableist, and just bad writers in general.

Yeah, Laurance does some pretty shitty things through out Season 2 of MCD, actively crossing lines he wouldn't have previously crossed. We as fans can cope by saying something something calling, or just saying Laurance is a bad abusive person, but the reality is that the writers wanted to force the series to fit a specific vision and as a result were willing to do anything to get the series to that point. In order to make Aaron the most favorable suitor for Aphmau, her previous suitors need to be out of the picture, or clearly inferior options.

Garroth suffered the out of the picture, being mostly absent outside of a few cutscenes here and there until episode 81 of season 2, but episode 81 is the culmination of the writers goals to make Aarmau happen. By the time Garroth has returned to the series, the damage has already been done. He's not getting the life he wants. And Laurance is written out of the picture as well, but only after being shown to be inferior because Jesson were pushing an agenda.

Laurance didn't deteriorate as a person due to neglect of his physical and mental well being after a severely traumatic experience. He deteriorated as a character because the writers stopped giving as much of a shit about him and instead were using the series as self indulgent fanfiction of alternate versions of themselves. That's not Laurance's fault.

And this applies to any character who was completely fumbled in MyStreet due to this similar focus on wish fulfillment from the writers. Jess has stated that the relationship between Aphmau and Aaron in Phoenix Drop High is reflective of her relationship with Jason, we all know this. This means that any characters who come off as total fucking creeps in that series (namely Gene), are not actually acting on the whims of their own autonomy or desires as characters. They are acting in service of telling a predetermined story that they are retroactively being added into for author fulfillment.

In this regard I fully support fandom cope and say that you should rewrite your little guys to your hearts content. But if you're going to criticize these characters for their actions, don't criticize them. They didn't do anything wrong. All characters are just puppets in service of the story or themes a writer is trying to push. If a character acts in an objectively terrible way, especially a way that isn't in line with their previous characterizations, that is a failing of the writers, not the character.

And I feel like largely a lot of us can and frequently do this. We're actively criticizing Jesson for being terrible low-key bigoted writers all the god damn time, it's like half of the content here. But when we get into character discourse I feel like some people cling onto bad actions of the canon too closely and I've seen more than a few posts presume some pretty terrible interpretations of characters based on these actions. Obviously Laurance is a character I and a lot of others are fixated on so a lot of discourse revolves around him, and it was seeing some... interesting takes on him that prompted me to start writing this post.

But this happens to everyone. Quite personally based on the character I was shown in MyStreet, it feels really weird that Garroth would make an insensitive comment about his brother's weight. Yeah siblings poke fun at each other and often cross lines, but if that was something Zane was seriously insecure about (which it seems like he might be) then it does make Garroth come off as a really insensitive brother, which just doesn't gel with how hard he tries to bond with Zane despite their tense relationship. And I don't think Garroth should be criticized for making those comments.

Whoever wrote those lines (Jess and/or Jason) should be criticized for writing a scene where a character is mocked by their older sibling over a physical insecurity even if said sibling would not normally do that. It's not Travis' fault that Jesson never decided to give him more of a character beyond "funny pervy guy" that's not funny in every anime they've watched until Season 5 of MyStreet. It's unfair to try and say Travis should be scrutinized for his borderline sexual harassment of some characters when it's not his fault that happened, he was written by writers who don't think this sort of behavior isn't all that bad if they make it out for comedy and punch him in the face.

And god dammit it's not Laurance's fault that his jealousy became the most prevalent emotion he felt. Laurance has always been a character to give into his vices and yet fight against them at the same time, it's what makes him compelling. If they were going to pull on those vices in order to make him a less appealing love interest, he never had a chance to really be his own character after a certain point. Because at a certain point in Season 2, Jesson stopped caring about the character they had been writing for over a hundred episodes at that point. They just wanted to canonize their self insert ship and were willing to do anything to get it.

Laurance isn't an abusive angry person who would have killed Aphmau if they got together. He's a flawed character being handled by incredibly flawed writers who are prone to making some of the worst decisions you have ever seen a creator make in regards to their character writing. He was caught in the crossfire of the adoration he received from a very dedicated fanbase, and the creator who would rather pretend he and his previous arc didn't exist for the sake of her fun. It's not Laurance's fault his arc was stilted, jerked around, and ultimately ended with him completely face planting. And yet still reliably dragging his bloodied body up at just the slightest glimmer of hope (Void Paradox).

It's deeply poetic and tragic that I can describe his character in universe and in the meta-textual sense that way, but we should never blame Laurance, or Aaron, or any other characters for things being like this.

They didn't write the show. Jess and Jason did.

[h0n3yk1tt3n]

One of the more frustrating parts about dywh (of which there are many) is that it doesn't even take itself seriously. People talk about it as if it's this Infamous Moment™️ where Chloe becomes the devil incarnate and violates our ✨️pwecious wittle Jer-Bear✨️ but the simple fact of the matter is that the Joes can't stop making jokes long enough to give the scene any actual venom.

Like yes, it's an uncomfortable scene, but most of it comes from the fact that Chloe is dressed as a sexy baby of all things and the song makes sure to constantly remind you of that. When you look at it divorced from the costume though, she barely even does anything. The squip is the entire reason Jeremy can't leave, so pinning that on Chloe is flimsy at best, and the worst she does per the script is kiss him. (Before anyone says it, the script says the squip made him drink. Animatics lied to you.) Still bad, yes, but far tamer than some fans act like it is.

Most of the scene beyond the lyrics and the kiss is just Chloe and Jeremy talking. Or Jeremy talking to a comedically malfunctioning squip. Or Chloe comedically pissing Jake off with fake sex noises. Do you see the problem? This scene can't decide if it's comedic or serious and is walking a sloppy middle road.

I can derive themes from the choices that were made ("sexy baby" showing the horror that comes from teen girls sexualizing themselves for peer approval/attention and symbolizing Chloe's entitlement and immaturity; the metaphorical and literal loss of control via the squip freezing Jeremy in place and telling him what to do throughout the show = overall loss of autonomy) and give Watsonian reasons for the weirder ones (creepily excessive baby innuendos because Chloe is drunk) but with how little they were capitalized on, I don't think the Joes did it on purpose. Or if they did, they were clumsy about it.

When the scene isn't joking about Chloe being a drunk sexy baby trying to get laid, it actually spends a lot of its time developing Chloe as a character by touching on her jealously of Brooke and having these blink-and-you'll-miss-it moments where we can see her insecurities and the conditioning that contributes to her actions. Why did she hear "You're the hottest girl in school" and automatically equate that to "Jeremy wants to kiss me?" How many boys saw nothing more than a pretty face and not an actual person? Has anyone actually bothered to unpack her bitterly asking if everyone likes Brooke "because she's nice," before sobbing about how "I can be nice, I can be so goddamn nice?" Has anyone ever given her the space to be a person and not The Hottest Girl In School?

Let me guess: it doesn't count because she was drunk.

We could've had an incredibly raw scene where The Mean Bitch Character (though drunk) opens up about all the pressure to play into that persona because nobody will give her the time of day otherwise. Nobody will try to get to know the real her. Nobody will let her show how goddamn nice she can be. She wants Jake back because who is the hottest girl in school if she's not with the hottest boy in school? She sees through Brooke's "wounded puppy routine" and is warning Jeremy about how she's just as fake as her. (You could technically interpret this as Chloe lying to sway him away from Brooke, but goddammit give Brooke some actual fucking flaws for once.) We could’ve seen PROOF that Chloe is more than Hot Girl #1. We could've seen an ACTUAL character.

Or, say we wanna keep the scene comedic, because this show has always been comedic first in my head. Make Chloe so shitfaced that she couldn't actually assault Jeremy if she tried. Keep the squip keeping him from leaving, but don't pretend that Chloe is any kind of actual threat. Make this whole thing just, weird and inconvenient. I have to get back to Brooke, no go throw up over there, can I just leave?? No I don't wanna drink. Why are you speaking in japanese?? What the fuck??? Chloe there like six pillows right there, you don't have to lay on me. Make Jake come along and pound on the door, THEN have Chloe make fake sex noises because it would be sooo funny if Jake thought that she and Jeremy were banging.

OR if y'all REALLY wanna demonize a teenage girl THAT FUCKING BADLY, we cut the jokes. We cut the song and we Actually Commit. Just have it be a short talking scene, but we see what direction it's going in through the blocking and body language. We cut the squip jabbering in Japanese. We cut Jake and Brooke. We fade to black and just jump to the (seemingly) empty bathroom where Jeremy runs in. We don't drag out the gratuity of sexual assault by showing it, but by showing how Jeremy acts after it. Show he's more on edge, more jumpy, show he was actually AFFECTED by what happened. Maybe TALK ABOUT IT, just a TINY FUCKING BIT. Make him BITTER toward the squip for MAKING him go through that. This isn't a show About sexual assault and recovery but FUCK at least give the scene a little more respect.

But dywh didn't commit to any of these and just gave us this weird scene that's interesting for Chloe's character but kinda bad but not bad enough to tone down the absurdity or actually be addressed later.

Fucking Rick and Morty had a more effective sexual assault scene. It was a small portion of one episode, sure, but there was FOLLOW-THROUGH. You SEE how the characters act differently afterward. The scene makes you uncomfortable in the RIGHT WAY. It Stopped Joking long enough to Punch You In The Gut. RICK AND MORTY, the drunk dimension-hopping grandpa show!!!

AND I maintain that dywh was meant to emphasize the SQUIP disobeying Jeremy's wishes more than Chloe, besides being an excuse to break the couples up. She couldn't fucking tell what Jeremy wanted (he didnt leave, she didnt know he couldnt; she misinterpreted him calling her hot, which is on her despite being drunk; he drank halfway through saying hes not a drinker, because some unseen force made him; CHLOE CANT CONSENT EITHER BECAUSE SHES DRUNK, AND THE SQUIP KNOWS THIS) until the last second when she GAVE UP, at which point she only cared if Jake THOUGHT she and Jeremy banged on his parents' bed and not if they actually DID.

The squip put him here fully knowing what Chloe wanted, fully knowing that Jeremy didn't want it. It doesn't care about the best interest of its host; just results. Who cares if Jeremy suffers a little if it gets us on the right path? Who cares what he wants? All that matters is what I want. Or, let's say the squip knew that Chloe wouldn't actually get in Jeremy's pants; it still made Jeremy live through the horror of not having the CHOICE to stay or go. To powerlessly WATCH it happen. The squip controlled his body at least once before this, and later forces him to fight Michael. Physically hijacking control his body is almost as LITERAL OF A METAPHOR AS IT GETS for this kind of thing.

That.

That is the villain of this fucking show.

Not a drunk and insecure teenage girl.

And dywh failed at showing you that.

[shigarakisslutbag]

Thought that has plagued my mind (that I haven't actually brought up n rp) but imagine y/n finding out Tomura isn't his real name and after going through that mental whiplash, just genuinely asking him what he <I>wants</I> to be called.

Kinda just imagining the faces he'd make because it's not something someone would normally ask him? And him trying to figure out y ud care about something like that? Then realizing he's never thought about it either, he just did what AFO told him to and didn't consider it outside of necessity/ if it was something he actually wanted to do or not

(casual angst is underrated)

TW: angst, mentions of the bitch that is AFO, mentions and themes of lack of body autonomy

I've been meaning to get to this sooner but the last two weeks I've been pretty much unconscious bc of my new meds 😭 (legit slept 12 HOURS the other night).

Sorry for all the typos, if any, I'm on mobile lol.

Tomura would probably disregard reader for a bit. Not in a rude way, but he'd likely just shrug and give no real answer, because he has no idea how to. The thought would stick with him for a while, though.

When you're a kid, you don't really question things, because your brain isn't fully developed enough (obviously), so as kids we accept almost everything adults tell us as fact. It's actually a common tactic used by some parents to get them to behave or teach certain lessons. For example: if a parent wants the child to stop misbehaving, they use Santa or "call" Santa on their phone as a way to keep the child from doing things they aren't supposed to.

This isn't to say tomura was "lied" to necessarily, but he didn't have the maturity level to be able to make decisions like that for himself, and understand he had a choice, so when afo gave him his new name, he didn't have any objections because... why would he? He grew up with the idea that his life and body- even his name, were not his. Of course he's not going to give his real name any thought because it wasn't really on the table. Up until this point, probably hadn't even thought of his real name at all.

Now, to circle back to the original question, how would tomura react beyond this? I would say after contemplating that option, he'd also wonder why reader would care enough to ask. Why do you care about what he wants? He can't really wrap his head around it, but now that the question has been asked, and now that he knows he has the option, he'd unsurprisingly choose his real name.

I think one of the biggest reasons he'd rather use his real name, is because he doesn't want to use a name given to him by someone who tried to control him. Tomura is not really the type to like being told what to do lol. I mean he is the leader after all. You'd be the first he allow to use his real name. Eventually the other members too, but you were the first who cared enough to ask, so naturally you're the first who he'll tell what he wants to be called. It won't seem like it in his facial expressions, but hes grateful you put that thought into his mind. He won't forget that.

A/N: I love casual angst that doesn't make me wanna throw myself into incoming traffic. Am I gonna read a fic about cheating tomura or cheating reader? Absolutely tf not. Will I read or write a fic that makes me wanna cry myself to sleep bc I can't comfort said fictional character? Absolutely.