#Viren got or will be redeemed

[yourbuerokrat2]

I really hope that Aaravos gets free and starts the Apocalypse in season 6 although it would be hilarious if all of Aaravos' planning and manipulation only leads to him being free for like four episodes in season 7 till he gets defeated.

[bittrlys]

The Dragon Prince season 6 is like watching people write themselves into a corner in real time. Exciting! Massive spoilers ahead, of course.

THE GOOD

Opening on Aaravos crying was a very strong choice, this is the actual 'Mystery of Aaravos' type content I've been waiting for

Terry picking up Viren while they're excited about him being alive is very cute

As ever, Terry being extremely ride or die is 👍

Terry taking care of Claudia was very sweet; Terry cutting Claudia's hair and Claudia's new haircut in general. Cute.

Viren and Claudia on the beach, "No parent wants their child to suffer for them." Oof.

In general, I was quite happy with everything Viren, Claudia, and even Soren, and I actually wrote a note of "i hate soren" at the start because I thought we were gearing up for another season of him just being a bad joke machine with no real character or feelings to speak of. But then they gave him, like, actual pathos! They let him interact with people in a way that feels human! They let him be resentful and complicated! Wow! Magefam is so back baby!

Viren trying to reconcile with Soren and be a better example for Claudia really got to me. His final sacrifice (OMG CRIMINAL BY FIONA APPLE JUST CAME ON SHUFFLE.......WHAT I NEED IS A GOOD DEFENSE CUS I'M FEELING LIKE A CRIMINAL.......AND I NEED TO BE REDEEMED TO THE ONE I'VE SINNED AGAINST.....) is tied so strongly to his children and that feels like a natural place to leave his character. Now, I've been saying forever that he was going to get a redemption via death, and figured Aaravos would be the one pulling the trigger, so none of that surprised me, but I thought the actual execution was generally good. I do have some more negative thoughts but I'll save those for later.

Viren is very good at justifying himself, and I like that you see him falling back into that, at times struggling with it, at times not even catching himself doing it. It feels very real. At the same time, I don't think he's ever seen himself as a hero, so it was interesting to let him go out on such a heroic note.

Viren's kind of abuse-coded (not actually abusive, IMO, but I understand if this makes people uncomfortable in a similar way) act of forcing Lissa to cry into the vial is interesting. It echoes him taking Sarai's last breath.

Him writing out his whole confession on this subject and then burning it because he realized it was only going to do him good was also very nice.

Though I wish Claudia had stuck by her 'I'm going solo' guns a little longer, I still think there's something to how she is so incapable of being alone, of thinking for herself, and desperately seeks direction. She is literally just like her dad, and it makes them both easy targets for Aaravos.

Like, Viren being such a force that Claudia easily followed him, then Claudia being such a force that Soren and Terry both easily followed her, and Aaravos being a supreme force Viren and Claudia both easily follow because at heart, they're more followers than leaders despite the force of their personalities and ambitions -- it's interesting.

Aaravos using Sol Regem to casually destroy a kingdom and kill Viren just as a small step in his plan is pretty fun. We love a grandiose villain!

Looking forward to Claudia and Aaravos. She's in some ways even more unequipped than Viren to handle Aaravos's manipulations, but at the same time, she's a lot more unpredictable than Viren. If this leads up to a confrontation between them, I think that could be really cool.

Aaravos tragic backstory with deleted child was really not on my bingo card at all -- I never thought 'noble revenge' would be his motivation. I like how this parallels him to Viren.

Aaravos crying enough to fill a sea is great imagery

The lore of the startouch elves being actual stars that descend is SO COOL. This is like, the first bit of worldbuilding in this show that's actually seriously impressed me. I love it.

Actual lore as to why humans don't have magic. Well. Not entirely. But it's better than what we had.

I liked Amaya and Janai's wedding looks. Cute.

Janai like Ehe I'll bring out my armies after I get married 😜 is funny. She isn't a very good queen but she is the moment! The gossip blogs would love her.

Ezran eating shit and not having his """diplomacy""" work out. LMAO.

SOL REGEM DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉

Kinda getting a y'know vibe from Soren and Corvus. I wouldn't mind that. I like that Corvus feels a little more tolerant of Soren than everyone else. It's funny Soren is like finally I'm away from my shit family but his new friends don't seem to care about him at all. Go and be totally free of all this, dude, or get a boyfriend.

Runaan back just when I was starting to think this show really hates gay males.

Rayla correcting her assumption about the sex of the diary's author was cute with the voice over changing. (cont...)

THE BAD

(... cont.) Did unfortunately then make it feel like "Had to be a woman because the author will be pining for a man."

Why is Zym STILL just a dog. Bro. It's like if all through Avatar you had to be aware Appa was going to be king someday. STOP BARKING.

Waiting for the whole cast to become vegetarians and somehow I suspect that will not be happening

When Claudia is listing the spell ingredients she could harvest from that cat thing I was just desperate to have Terry go, "Well, some of those could be ethically harvested, right?"

I find prophecies fairly corny as a writing tool and I get why they're going there -- predicted futures are the source of the anti-human oppression -- but still, I sighed.

Luna Tenebris putting a collar on her pet feels like, weird, right? Right? Right? She's not human and dragons otherwise seem so Respect all magical creatures. (Allegedly.) What is the uneven treatment of animals in this universe.

Naming your episode Red Wedding and I don't see a bloodbath ... oh, come on.

That ramble about ships from Caleb. Shudder.

Jeez, who is Rayla going to save? Her uncle who is an actual character or her backstory parents who are obviously happy and at peace? God forbid one of our main heroes has an actual hard choice to make.

Related: Caleb's 5 second rehab from dark magic.

Making his inner truth being about one other person is ... well ....

Cutting from Viren's rapidly cooling corpse to Lujanne receiving a sensual back massage was certainly a Choice.

Viren missing his wife THIS MUCH when he's barely mentioned her up to now was a little weird. I honestly think they saw the homoerotic interpretations of the very intense dynamics he had with Harrow and Aaravos and have been steadily backpedalling from that. Don't get me wrong, I can believe he loved her and he misses her, but the degree of it feels totally unearned.

I get children's media will have mascots for the children, normally I don't mind them, but dear god this show is hitting critical mass on annoying sidekicks (Zym counts as a very big one and he's already nigh unbearable.)

THE UGLY

I can imagine that the descendants of the human children Leola granted magic to are now able to do magic naturally and this could be the lore behind either Caleb or Ezran's abilities. I actually don't mind this as finally being in-universe explanation for this disparity that isn't just 'they want it more' or whatever, but it doesn't help this show's "Better People Are Born Better" messaging. Now, in that vein ...

King Ezran is a KING. Have we mentioned this? He's a king. He's divinely ordained to be above everyone else. You must show him respect because he's KING. Even Rayla emphasizes what a KING he is. BOW BEFORE HIM.

Ezran's idea of """diplomacy""" is just going "Be nice, please." (Followed by a threat LMAO.) "Go live somewhere else." WHERE. What if they try to occupy territory that isn't theirs? Xadian society seems quite separated and territorial. Ezran doesn't consider this. He doesn't consider anything. He has no actual diplomatic skills because he never offers anything, he just expects people to listen to him because he's KING.

You know in Parasite when they're like Of course the rich people are nice, they can afford to be? When Ezran was going I'm a king and I can choose kindness I was like, You're king because of an accident of your birth, and all your privilege and people looking out for you allows you to operate the way you do.

(Janai having an evil brother who is Not The True Heir To The Throne and Trying To Steal It is just part of the show's overall obsession with this narrative -- see also Viren coming from a less privileged background.)

Of course it's still funny to see Ezran be continuously characterized as So Compassionate, So Loving but when it comes to say, Not burning his own people alive or Extending the hand of kindness to one of his oldest childhood friends or her father, he just turns that shit off. This could be interesting hypocrisy if I thought the show was trying to intentionally paint him this way, instead of just wanting him to not be a total pushover because he's THE KING!!! ALL BOW BEFORE THE KING!!!!

The unbelievable frustration caused by a scene where Claudia is begging to not have to use dark magic -- Terry coming in and saving the day with natural magic -- Claudia staring at the peaceful solution and realizing she needs to change -- BUT IT'S STILL A FUNDAMENTAL DISPARITY IN HOW HUMANS CAN EXIST IN THIS WORLD? Is Claudia supposed to die because dark magic is too wrong to use? Now we have the reveal that humans are being actively denied magic I'm hesitantly hopeful they may get some justice in this regard, but it doesn't change the reality of humans right now. What are humans supposed to do? Rely on others for help? Oh, sure, most of the elves and dragons we meet now are just so nice and helpful to humans, because of the show's 'bad apple' approach to prejudice I've mentioned before, but we know that wasn't always the case.

Like, this actual reminder that the difference in power between a single dragon and a human settlement, and unlike the last time we're on the side of humans this time so you can better appreciate the horror of it ... it's depressing to feel like "Only by grace of your betters do you survive." It's echoes of Janai's 'forgiveness' of the human who put out the fire of that elf who assaulted her. "Aren't you lucky we're so NICE?"

This is all compounded by what I meant at the start of my review, that they've written themselves into a corner, especially wrt dark magic. In universe Soren sees no choice but to ask his father to do dark magic, something all the characters scold each other for constantly. Out of universe, the writers had a huge fuck off dragon come along to commit genocide against the humans and the only realistic solution is .... having Viren do dark magic, something the narrative constantly reinforces as bad. They ultimately frame this act as heroic, and according to a writer (I believe) on the discord, he speaks the spell forward to represent how this act of inherent good overcomes the "inherent evil" of dark magic (quotation marks theirs, interestingly.) I think the writers, for the most part, clearly like Viren and Claudia a lot, and like giving them 'big moments' with dark magic ... but this is part of the reason why the show has continuously reinforced a NEED for dark magic without giving any viable solution for the average human who doesn't have natural magical powers or is friends with dragons and elves like our main heroes. Ultimately, it feels hypocritical of the show to keep going on about the evil of dark magic (now very firmly an addiction metaphor) while having no solution for humans in tricky situations that aren't "magic you and only you can do, for some reason" or "queen dragon who somehow still isn't dead dear god coming to save you" or, y'know, "dark magic." Only one of these is really viable for the average person.

Like, you make it an addiction metaphor, but where's the alternative? Vampires need to drink blood to survive but vampire series often show vampires refusing to drink human blood as an addiction metaphor ... they drink animal blood instead, or something, and you get the metaphor. Right now, in TDP, it's either, do dark magic and suffer, or don't do dark magic and ... suffer more? Okay. I'm not saying life has to be fair or that there isn't value in accepting loss, but when Viren scolds Kpp'Ar for having all his fun with dark magic and then very callously dismissing Viren's fear for his son, I felt that. Viren isn't begging for a beer here. He's begging to save his son. Addiction metaphors need to match the scale and reality of what is being shown to you.

Sorry, I'm now going to harp on more about the Your Betters Are Born Better stuff now because I was actually enjoying (you know, tearfully so) Viren's death until his final lines. WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I GASPED!!!!!!!! HOLD ON!!!!!!!!!!! Like, let me get it out of the way, I get it echoes his last exchange to Harrow and his loyalty to Harrow is tied to his loyalty to Katolis, and they're saying "He was power hungry but now he is acting in a way that is purely, totally selfless for maybe the first time in his life," which is fine. The problem is, I have sat through six seasons of this show kissing royal ass. I have seen Aanya (shudder) mock him for not being a real noble-born ruler. I have seen Ezran's divine authority be reinforced time and again, and seen Viren throw himself submissively before his King to submit to his judgement as King, not as someone he once hurt. I have been reminded time and again that less privileged people who want the power necessary to succeed in a world biased against them are power-hungry lunatics unless they submit themselves enough to the Supreme Order of the world. So to have Viren's last words be him reinforcing that the most heroic thing he can ever be is A LOYAL SERVANT is just ... horrible. If they'd just kept the framing of Viren's death on his love for his family, it would have been way, way better.

Altogether I uh guess the season was mostly fine. They actually did a better job tying disparate narratives together with common themes which I appreciate. I liked the magefam stuff. I hope Soren eventually learns the stuff Viren chose not to tell him. I hope there's realistic forward growth on the attitude towards dark magic and why humans feel they need it, like some acknowledgement that Katolis was only saved because of Viren (make that two nations he has explicitly saved.) Maybe even Ezran can take a break from being unbearably sanctimonious to properly acknowledge his sacrifice. That would be nice!

I really hope humans get some justice for how they've been actively denied a valuable resource. It seems a self-fulfilling prophecy (they punished Leola for giving humans magic, this made Aaravos go darksided, Aaravos gave humans dark magic, humans are very set against the magical community for the way they've been treated so they're more callous about using dark magic) so I hope the ultimate lesson won't be "humans don't deserve this" but "humans only ended up here because they were treated like they don't deserve it, but they do, by right of existing as beings in this world." If Callum (+ Ezran) end the series as the only or some of the only humans with magic powers, I'm going to eat drywall.

[sarasade]

It's been pretty interesting to follow the

"Why Didn't Viren Get Redeemed vs Viren Got What Was Coming To Him"

discussion after The Dragon Prince's 6th season got released.

Hot Take

I think Viren got redeemed.

Because to me Viren humbling himself and acknowledging the hurt he has caused was redeeming. His conversation with Soren was the main event. His rather heroic death was only the cherry on top of the character development cake that has been baking since s4.

I think Viren dying wasn't as significant as what he did before that and how he tried to provide Soren with some kind of comfort and closure, you know, as a parent should, before going. Viren's redemption wasn't just him dying for Katolis but acknowledging his wrongdoings and trying to salvage what he could.

That was pretty redeeming for me at least. Viren did the right thing even when he knew there wouldn't be any reward for it. Even if he couldn't stop Aaravos from destroying Katolis or manipulating Claudia even after his death. Like, man, I kinda feel for the guy.

I think it has always pretty easy to feel sympathy for Viren. Viren wants to matter and wants to be important. However, his grandiosity, as psychologists would call it, keeps him from creating genuine connections with others. His friends, wife and children are only there to prop up his ego or get rejected if they fail to live up to his expectations. It's also pretty damn tragic that Viren opens up about his deep insecurities to Aaravos of all people. Someone who was the most likely person in the world to exploit these insecurities for his own gain.

Viren had to taste his own medicide but I don't think TDP says that's an objectively good thing per se or that we should enjoy this sort of revenge fantasy uncritically. Viren is still portrayed rather sympathetically and of course there is the part about his actions affecting others and the world in unpredictable ways. It's still a tragedy because Viren's actions and personal problems have caused so much collateral damage. The Why behind Aaravos exploiting Viren and Claudia is part of that tragedy, too. There are no winners here. In a way Viren is a victim of his own narcissistic tendencies, too.

This isn't just about the final episodes of Viren's arc. To me it's essential to ask What was Viren's biggest sin he should be redeemed or punished for? Depending on your answer you may have a relatively different reading of s6 story development compared to mine.

To me it's not a specific action he took but his whole worldview. Viren is a fictional character (duh!) so his story isn't exactly literal but metaphorical, a representation of certain values and morals real people and society holds. In s3 TDP draws a pretty straightforward, though brief, comparison between Viren and reactionary right-wing ideologues. It's not exactly subtle.

It's just one way TDP goes to show how toxic and abusive Viren's core values are. that gets reflected both in Viren's personal life aka how he treated Lissa, Soren and even Harrow and Claudia (last two more indirectly). Since he also had a ton of political power as a high mage and briefly as a king we see what he did with that power. It's a pretty clear take on people who dehumanise others, fetishise power and see all living things as something to exploit. TDP explores that both philosophically and psychologically through Viren. Dark magic encapsulates this philosophy well since using magical creatures like tools or objects is essential for it to work.

Also also- I don't really get why people see redemption or atonement as something black and white. It's not bad or anything but Redeeming Yourself For Your Sins is a very Christian concept and Christianity isn't the only way to understand villain story arcs. Like I wish there could be more discussion about WHY redemption is the main analytical framework we impose on villains when villainous characters have a ton of variety anyway.

I don't really have anything to complain about Viren's death itself and I'm not surprised that he ended up dying (for real this time). Aaravos seemed like someone who'd turn against Viren the moment he stopped being useful to him so Viren's life has been hanging by a thread since s4. Viren was the best part of TDP and every scene he's been in had been a delight, well expect the s5 dream sequence because it was too long-winded and obvious, anyway, I'm sorry to see him go and I look forward writing AU fix-it fics where he and Aaravos are married and run a hot brown morning potion shop with all their four totally not dead children. RIP Viren. You lived like a messy bitch and died like a messy bitch. Iconic.

[an-actual-attack-helicopter]

Book 6, Episode 1: Startouched Analysis/Commentary

Gotta love how it opens with Ripples in the water reflecting the stars. Go read the short stories if you don't know what I'm talking about.

Aaravos hesitates before crumbling Viren which is the funniest shit to me. This hurts more though, having seen the whole season.

Gotta love how Terry basically said Viren just ran away to go die like an angsty teen.

He got a new son to orphan les goooo

I find the framing of this pretty interesting. Viren is still in the dark while Claudia is standing in the light. You'd think it'd be the other way around. Perhaps it symbolizes how he has come to terms with his dark side, and is going to face it. While he leaves Claudia who, hopefully, can still be redeemed. Because ultimately this isn't her fault, it's his. He's the dark one.

At first I thought it was cruel for Viren to leave Claudia, but I've come to a realization. Claudia is better off without him. He is the reason she's done all this, and nothing will change if she keeps having to save him. She needs to let go. I'm not sure if this was intentional on Viren's part, but he made the right choice nonetheless.

Man, what is it with this show and blindfolds? So far they have showed up in Harrow's little flashback speech, on the Celestial elves, and here. Is this anything??

I was expecting to be annoyed by the baitlings' presence in this season, but they didn't actually get in the way much. Glad the writers read the room. They were mostly just used to fill the comic relief void that soren has left.

Also, I love how Jason Simpson still managed to weasel his way into the High Council through Barius, since Viren isn't exactly, yk, in that position.

DESTROY IT? CALLUM, HAVE YOU EVEN LISTENED TO THE MAGNUS ARCHIVES?

THE TABLE, CALLUM. THE TABLE!!!! Bro really be like "it's remarkably easy to buy a Novablade in central Starscraper."

Also, the way Rayla says "pearl" sounds like "peril."

They play Aaravos's little motif-melody-thingy throughout this scene. Yk, from I See You and Follow my Lead. Glad to cross that off my bingo card.

You can't see it here but the eye-movements in this scene are great. I think the animation and lighting really shine in this season. Pun intended.

Barius doing some casual baking at like 1 AM or something. Bro got insomnia /j. I mean, who are these for? They don't have fridges so they can't save em for long. Maybe Callum got him some sorta magical fridge. Or- wait- maybe they do have, like, a primitive fridge. Was that a thing? Oh actually, maybe Callum and Rayla just go to bed early. Lmfao

And there we have it, the first Viren-Callum parallel of the season. Just like episode 1 of season 1, he barges into the King's bedroom.

Alright, so. Other than this line being hilarious, I'm thinking the frustrating switcharoo that turns the latter half of the season into a bloodbath happened here. Was pretty foolish of Callum to think the pearl would be safe with him on his way out.

Ezran is saddened by everyone's departure. I'm not sure why, but it's worth noting.

They pretty much have her say "my dad is gone" just so that using this clip as a trailer wouldn't spoil anything lmao. I've been waiting to say that since Wondercon.

And now Claudia is the one leaving, as she steps out of the purifying light of the setting sun. Everyone, please give Terry a round of applause for continuing to love her despite this.

And now for the credits:

These are similar. Opeli is from the credits of this episode, and Harrow, from the credits of one from Season 2.

We need this to be a shirt.

Ahhh so Aaravos isn't the only Startouch elf with a star on their chest. I might be a little late to noticing that. Idk.

WHY THE HELL IS TERRY THE ONLY ONE CRYING FOR SIR SPARKLEPUFF? WHAT THE FUCK?

One last thing. Is it just me or is the outro song a little different? Music people, help me. I must know.

But yeah, banger episode, banger season, banger show. Imma be doin' these for all the season 6 episodes. At this rate, they will all have more words than Fallout Equestria. /j

Alright, time to take my meds. 💀

[rainwalker-dragonblade29]

ONE THING I REALLY REALLY LOVE ABOUT SEASON 6 IS HOW THEY HANDLED VIREN.

First, subverted our expectations. In the teaser, Claudia says her dad is gone. Therefore there are two outcomes: viren dead. Or Viren lived and left. (Those who saw episode 1 at comic con before must have known the latter but I certainly did not)

Season 5 last episode foreshodowed Viren's death and that man was fully expecting to die.

BUT then comes Episode 1, season 6.

Terry finds him, for a moment thinks it all went wrong but then, Oh my Stars he lives! Viren lives.

And I am like DIE BITCH. You don't deserve this after all that you've done 1. Viren then leaves and Claudia gets worse. and thens he comes back to terry and she gets better.

But she is unsure for she has always idolized Viren, she has lived by example and that has now crumbled. her foundation has been broken, and thus she seeks answers from the man who gave her all the answers before. It's no fault of hers, but her Idolism for him is her deepest truth.

But then we get to Viren in Katolis. OUR BOY EZRAN BECOMES KING OF SASS FOR TWO HOT SECONDS LIKE "GOOD YOU DON'T DESERVE ANY MERCY." THAT I LOVE. Viren here did not come looking for redemption and he has had a problem with this. Season 4, finally in the beginning he makes some semblance of sense that the final 30 days should be enjoyed and all and then picks up dark magic again when at first he was not willing to do it. He did it, had his dream and went catatonic and basically did zero things. And now here he is in Katolis. in the dungeon. Soren is so mad he wont speak a word and not ever forgive.... while viren isnt trying to rise from his place but rather stay in it. The end shows him as he he dies a hero being pushed to do dark magic by his own son, and then I am like: wtf you killed soren? but soren's fine like two frames later and we all get the gist quickly whose heart was going to be taken. Okay maybe you shouldn't die.

Note that this is a redeeming act, an unacknowledged redemption arc. That begun and reverted and then begun again, and ended with the act that was vile long before but saved many now. Viren did not deserve a redemption arc, I feel, but he got one and none would really care that much for the servant of Katolis.

His arc has come full circle from "awfully nice clothes for a servant" who would not give his life, to "servant in tatters" who died the kingdom. The contrast is beautiful and poetic almost.

MAN THIS SEASON WAS FIRE!

[reminiscentrainclouds]

The Dragon Prince season 6 spoilers below! Just a bunch of my thoughts because boy do I have a lot of them!

I still can't believe the way that whole switcheroo trick with the pearl backfired on Callum. It was so painful to watch because I knewwww it was going to happen the minute he decided to carry the fake down there by himself. Rayla was literally offering to go down there with him!! It would have been so easy for both of them to go down there just in case! I mean, the fake and the pearl both looked exactly the same; it would be easy to make a simple mistake and confuse them, so you'd want to make extra sure you were taking the right one with you!! Callum's confidence is very admirable, but considering he was so worried about it, he really should have been more cautious!

I just really like the way that part of the plot played out. This whole season had soooo much irony in it, but especially with this whole thing. The second it was revealed to be the fake pearl, I was like, "Yippee I was right!!" But also, "They're doomed." Because!! It's left completely unattended!!

And then Sol Regem started attacking Katolis and I was like NOOO IT'S ALL COMING TOGETHER. Although at first I was thinking it was gonna get like, smashed or something in the rubble and that would release Aaravos but man. MAN. There was so much more in store, that was a wild ride... Don't even get me started on Viren's sacrifice. I hate him and I think he got what he deserved, both in terms of what he lost and the crushing guilt he felt, but man. I was really sympathizing with him ever since he got revived, and that last scene with him hurt.

But it was a satisfying and fitting conclusion for him. He had intended on swearing off dark magic and attempting to right his wrongs, but instead, after a lifetime of sacrificing other lives for magic, he ends things by sacrificing his own life, which was already stolen after being revived anyway, to help save the people of Katolis. Sucks that he ultimately was convinced to use dark magic again, as if it was something he could never really escape, as if he never really learned anything, but the big difference was that he was sacrificing no other life than his own here. And he did help people. I'm probably massively misinterpreting everything because my interpretations are always kind of off...but he's just a really interesting character.... He made a lot of bad decisions but I understand his motivations, and I feel like he was really quite Doomed By The Narrative, pushed into a corner and faced with two equally bad decisions in many cases. He's the kind of bad guy who I really wish could have had the opportunity of not being a bad guy, y'know?

Aaravos is much worse and much less redeemable to me, but I feel a similar way about him. Like I Get It. Can't relate to what appears to be his thirst for revenge but I can understand. Learning about what happened to his daughter makes me angry on his behalf! The fact that all this had to happen in the first place hurts a lot! All this could really be blamed on that council of Startouch Elves, for what seemed like an extremely unnecessary punishment for his daughter. Although I'm curious about what more information we might get on the whole cosmic order and everything, I don't know. Taking Aaravos's child like that was unnecessarily cruel though; regardless of how serious of a crime or whatever giving humans magic was, there's no way she had bad intentions, and it's not like killing her would reverse what happened. AUGH anyway. What a season.

[knuffi516]

After knowing Aaravos' backstory, i realized that he has alot in common with Gabriel Agreste/Hawk Moth:

Both are single fathers (Leola for Aaravos; Adrien for Gabriel)

Both lost a loving one (Aaravos his daughter, Gabriel his wife)

Both are purple and butterfly themed supervillians

Both operating (mostly) from the shadows (Aaravos in his prison; Hawk moth in his lair)

Both can bestowing power to others (Aaravos via Dark Magic; Hawk moth via Akumas)

Both are good manipulators and are quite dramatic and flambouyant

Both having good intentions initialy, but became eaten up by revenge as they quests progressed

Both are cold and calculating outside, but sad and mourning inside

Both lost an important ally, which were disgusted by they actions (Viren for Aaravos; Natalie for Gabriel)

Gabriel got redeemed and died; Aaravos' fate is not revealed, yet.

(It's also possible thats Gabriel inspired Aaravos' character to an extend. Because Miraculous premiered 2015, three years earlier as The Dragon Prince's first season)

[unknownentry404]

The Dragon Prince: Pre-Season 6 Thoughts.

(Post finishing my 3rd full watch-through)

It was SUPER weird going from S4-5 Viren back to S1-3 Viren. I think it’s amazing how- like, they didn’t really redeem him? Cause he CANT be redeemed, but they still- Showed us who he was underneath the corruption and- Really emphasised how much of Viren’s villainousness was DUE to Dark Magic corruption which just- And how much he did out of love. (CoughCallumCough) Is terrifying when you think of the other two characters that have ties to it…

Viren turning to dark magic to save his son. “Whatever it takes: however dangerous, however vile.” But then: choosing dark magic OVER his son. Being careless with Soren’s feelings and very life. Telling Claudia to choose the egg over Soren, almost turning Soren into a sunbeast, gaslighting him, etc…

It appears that he first saw the Mirror in his first “dark magic coma,” with his future self on the other side of it. Explaining again why he became so obsessed with the Mirror when he saw it- The fact that S5 Viren would agree with Runaan’s warning: “that mirror? You have found something worse than death-“ Kinda mindblowing.

I have and will always be on the “Viren is an irredeemable bitch” train but- I didn’t expect it to hurt so much when I got back to Season-4-him coming to terms with mortality and just wanting to spend the next 30 days enjoying life with his daughter like- It seemed so deeply unserious and out of left-field when I first watched it, but, post Season 5- Wow, it actually hurts?

His relationship with Terry was actually really sweet? And Terry really helped him unpack so much of the Toxic Masculinity in him… as a certified Viren hater, it’s disturbing how much of this is about him- I always thought the crew spent too much time with him but- He is actually such an amazing foil?

Once again: Harrow is the bird, (Pip), confirmed. Ghost Harrow standing over Viren with the staff saying “your soul is my treasure” in reverse, turning Viren into a Coin? With Pip right behind him for “no other reason?” Also, new theory but: I think this also might be pointing to how the star spell Callum will use, with the Quazar Diamonds, to “restore spirits to their bodies.” Will not only be able to save Rayla’s family, but potentially King Harrow as well…. (Harrow has been on an Oppa bird-side-quest journey this entire time, mark my words: one does not simply emphasise bird and then let bird escape so he is “conveniently” never in the same room as the only known animal speaker, King Ezran, ever again).

Umm, something I noticed that I actually hope is just thematic and is not an important observation but: Callum has learned/connected with both of his Arcanum DIRECTLY after having used Dark Magic… (Also after doing so to save Rayla, but yeah-) And Dark Magic appears to have been something cultivated by Aaravos? Oh great master of all six primal sources?Basically, I’m hoping that it is just thematic and showing triumph over evil! Of choosing your own path! But… there is a non-zero chance that Callum might ONLY have made these connections BECAUSE he used dark magic and- (Don’t let it be so, please- I love Mage Callum, he loves magic why- /scared) It’ll take three to make a solid pattern just- don’t make it three for three, please-

Aaravos is basically whispering in Karim’s ear, via the old high mage that his caterpillar (son) bit, isn’t he? Meaning he’s being manipulated by the person who killed his sister, destroyed Lux Aurea and swallowed his grandmother. And hence Sol Regrem is, too, being manipulated, through Karim, by the person who GAVE humans dark magic, gave them the wizard staff and LEGIT took his eyes- It is LITERALLY the end of S3 again- Karim in Viren’s place. Aaravos, master warmonger-

Rayla to Callum, finally opening up about the coins: “there’s a burden I’m carrying, but I know I can trust you with it.” To trust is to be stronger. If we’re gonna do it, we’re going do it. Together. Meanwhile: Callum carrying the burden of using dark magic alone. And I’m not even sure if he’s TOLD anyone that the cube is called the @Key of Aaravos!” He tried to destroy it but- he couldn’t and- (This is gonnna FUCKING HURT I-)

Another small observation, but to the Earth Archdragon in S4, Callum offered the least valuable item as a gift when- I’m pretty sure if he offered the Key of Aaravos, it would have been enough on its own and really gotten the ball rolling too? Would it have been smart to give it up? Unclear. But that thing is also a potential danger and-

(I love my baby Callum and I fear for his fate a bit more each day-)

Claudia… oh Claudia… I dunno what it is, but the fact she is so “committed to her family,” but at the same time… they are still alive. As far as we know, her mother is still alive in Del Bar. Soren is still there, and even tries to reconnect with her in Season 4. The only one who’s dying is Viren, but all Viren wants is to spend his last month with his daughter in peace and-Oh Claudia

Extra: I bought and read the graphic novels for a fuller experience, and found them quite interesting:

Callum was going to go off with Rayla on her search for Viren. And she accepted as a lie, before sneaking off in the night. Ouch.

It’s not explicitly stated, but it appears Rayla developed her fear of water from when she almost drowned on the Harvest Moon, as a child, after a run in with the Bloodmoon Huntress. She was alone and pushed off a cliff/waterfall into a lagoon where she was too weak/young to save herself and Runaan had to miraculously appear and save her. We see her carelessly dangling on a log over a stream before this scene, with seemingly no fear. And she also hasn’t interacted with the Bloodmoon Huntress yet, as of Season 5: literally JUST missed her but, I wonder if it’ll come back? 🤔

The third graphic novel takes place before Ezran was born and follows Claudia (and Soren) searching Viren’s old mentors house. It is very much a kids book, but one with very sinister undertones. We learn two things of interest: 1). The timeline of events are as follows: “Soren got deathly ill, Viren’s old mentor ‘mysteriously disappeared,’ Soren got better, Viren and his wife started fighting, wife left-“ Which, I’m- well. That’s fun? Also: the King, Harrow’s father, comforts Viren and asks how he’s doing and how the search for his mentor goes which- well then. 👀 2). The story ends with Claudia obtaining a map to a Unicorn, a map that only she can read because she is… “pure of heart” which- is such a standard, happy ending to a kids book until you realise… what she did… once she found that Unicorn… and then what its horn went on to do…

This show is too well written for the tiny fan base it has. If it sticks the landing, like I think it will? Cult classic on our hands people. Again, I’m just pissed about the depth they brought to the show with Viren: how he was a COMPLETELY different person in Part 1 vs Part 2. How that is terrifying not because we love HIM as a character, but because of how much we love Claudia and Callum… How they made me, a Viren Hater, sad that he died? Because his death was a tragedy? Not because he died, but because he died BEFORE he could warn Claudia not to go down this path. HIS path. That he didn’t want this for her- That she could still stop-

Oof. I simultaneously dread and cannot wait a second more for Friday-

[idkyourleastfavoriteartist]

SEASON 6 SPOILERS OF THE DRAGON PRINCE!!!!! Also I'm just gonna say this post is LONG (overall thoughts,rewrite?) I'm not a actual writer so take evey thing with a grain of salt. It's fine if you disagree or even dislike my opinions and (kinda) rewrites just be nice about it please and thank you!! (Also this has really bad grammar it's not that deep if it's not perfect)

I overall felt that this season was really good and it's one of the shows strongest!!!! I don't want it too sound like I'm complaining because that's not the case because I really enjoyed this season so don't take like that please. Let start with the positives I really liked the scene where Soren shouted at Viren in the jail (as he should loved that reunion). Rayllum finally got back together loved that for us. I feel like the darker atmosphere the show really works and I couldn't be happier about it. Corvus is so lovely him and him having too babysit Soren is so fun too watch. Learning about Callum's dad and Claudia's/Soren's mum was really interesting and was nice too get info on them. I'm really happy about how better the animation is getting better each season with it being a overall higher quality. Literally like 90% of this season I liked.

The only questions/slight problems I have is that I personally don't understand how Aaravous wanted Viren too kill sir sparklepuff (he calls them THIER child) so him being a grieving father doesn't make sense too me especially with the fact that Viren at first didn't care about sir sparklepuff, it was only when Aaravous said it was their child, like sir do you want Viren too live?????? Like what was the reason too humaninse sir sparklepuff if Aaravous didn't see them as a actual being with feelings and if goes against his plans that he made to control Viren to get him out of his prison??????? (I actually like his back story because of how it relates to the themes of love in tdp but in a way which is so similar but so different to our main cast).We all knew that Viren was gonna be redeemed well I felt it coming. But it should of been handled better because due to Aaravous for no reason making Viren feel bad for sir sparklepuff just so Viren could have a situation too get on the dark magic bad high horse didn't really rub well on me. I would of made Viren care about sir sparklepuff without Araavous input so it will make more sense that he wouldn't want too kill him and his redemption feel more earned despite Araavous who only made the being too finalise the spell to keep Viren alive(idk if it makes sense but too me it does) then have the "I'm over with dark magic and you" speech. With Araavous backstory I would of liked more that Araavous did have rebellious feeling about the power structers with elfs and humans (he felt it was unfair that elves get all the power and how rude elves where to humans despite them just wanting too learn too use magic) and he teaches a little bit too much leola but she tooked his teachings to other humans when she should of kept quite then being punished death after that he would go villain mode. I like the idea that Aaravous is evil but tried too keep quite until leola because he felt like he owed her the truth which led too her death and years of terror expanding on dark magic with humans till he went to prison. (that's my rewrite I don't really do stuff like this so if it's bad just understand where I'm coming from and give me positive input please☺️)

I also kinda felt that cladiua leaving Terry just for her to come back too him in the same episode is felt abit rushed but it's only 9 episodes so I understand why they did all in the same episode. (I would let that stretch for another episode so it's more impact full).

ALSO WAS I THE ONLY ONE WHO REALLY WANTED TOO SEE A VIREN AND AARAVOUS REUNION 😭😭😭😭😭 Maybe it's just me because they were one of my favourite dynamics in the show (mostly through season 3 and abit in season 2) so not seeing the communicate sucked abit. I like the ideas that are in this show but only wish they would be expanded more and fleshed out abit more.

[raayllum]

Tbf doesn't Rayla admit that her hunting Viren was because she was obsessed with revenge rather than "protecting the world"?

Runaan and Ethari told me something that helped me understand… well, a lot of things, really. They said that, sometimes, we make sacrifices so that the ones we love don’t have to. 

Rayla looked at the driftwood floor. “Because I messed up. He got away with the rest.” Redfeather sighed. “You hesitated. Like in the Bone Pit.” It stung. She was right, of course. Rayla caught a glimpse of her own reflection in a glass bottle and scowled at herself: the face glowering back at her was not the face of an assassin, and it never would be.

Because it's not like the initial assassination mission that Rayla went on to redeem herself/her family and to protect the world per more violence (aka exactly how Runaan and Ethari explain to her that she clearly believes in) isn't something she framed as Justice and later called Revenge. Like... it's the first ever character arc she arguably goes through, so I wasn't surprised when the show drew a parallel to it again, even if it maybe wasn't the Most Clear

I talked about this when the season initially came out, but Rayla's intentions going after Viren in the face of two years of consequence and realizing she lost the thread of herself (literally and figuratively nearly throwing away her entire identity in addition to her life) is like. pretty on par for all of the above tbh. Her language always reflects this (even if it is up to interpretation per the phrase of) "I became so obsessed with revenge" and we just don't know if she considers that to be the from the offset of leaving to go after Viren VS it happened during her travels and contributed to staying away for so long, but honestly

'Why Not Both'?

[corvikari]

So I watched The Dragon Prince Season 6 all in one day. Here are my brief thoughts, I’ll do a series of longer posts throughout this weekend and into this week detailing my in depth thoughts but for now it’s just a quick post

SPOILERS FOR SEASON SIX. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED

Things I liked

-MUSHROOM MAGE

-Zubeia not being dead

-MORE STARTOUCH LORE IN THE SEASON FOCUSED ON STARS

-LEOLA. JUST LEOLA. Sweet baby child you’re so precious-

-VIREN DIES FOR GOOD THIS TIME

-Soren getting serious when he needs to be and showing that he’s actually a good character underneath comic relief

-Sorvus shipping bait

-Karim’s plan going horribly wrong and blowing up in his face

-Stella being an agent of chaos

-Backstory for Callums dad

-Magefam backstory

-THE VOICEACTING OH MY GOSH

-Claudia’s prosthetic leg

-Katolis backstory

Things I wasn’t particularly happy about/Didnt sit right with me

-Them bringing back Viren a second time only to basically do nothing that entire time, we already got his feelings of wanting to change before he died out in season 4 why do we need to go through it again?

-Ezran stepping up to say “Viren doesn’t deserve mercy”. I was proud of the guy for being assertive but it came out of nowhere and felt targeted only towards Viren and no one else

-Rayllum just getting completely back together out of nowhere, like absolutely NO apology (except for one little sorry that got cut off, how is that an apology exactly?) anywhere then they’re back to kissing? Felt like they were rushing trying to get them back together just to be a finale/final season couple.

-They gave Claudia the conflict of doing dark magic only for her to turn right around and act like it didn’t happen. I understand that it was because of Viren and with him being dead and all but still I would have just preferred her being set in her ways, don’t bait us into thinking she’s going to be redeemed when she obviously isn’t.

-The celestial elves not telling the truth about the pearl eventually. Like you knew it wasn’t real maybe i dunno that’s a little important??

-The conflict of Rayla choosing who to save was over REALLY quick, like yeah she chose before she dove into the moon pool but all we get is two lines of her telling us that she is deciding who to pick (if it was that many lines even, like not even a visual cue?)

-pacing was still all over for me (and has been since season 4) certain things felt too rushed whereas for others it felt like it was going so slow

Wow this was a lot. Even though it doesn’t seem brief it is Lol. I will make posts eventually detailing individual episodes or plot points (once I rewatch the season) to better organize my thoughts to one topic or episode. Hope you all have a great weekend, God bless!!

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

so i've been thinking about horde prime and what a wasted potential he was. when we were first introduced to horde prime, we are led to believe that he is an intimidating and heartless dictator, the biggest threat adora has faced so far.

and yet, as the series progresses, we are just left with questions as to WHY this guy is so powerful and feared. all adora has to do is save catra and horde prime is already fuming and frothing at the mouth. literally all his clones could be taken out by just hitting a weak spot, as demonstrated by catra and glimmer. any of the etherians (i.e. the princesses) who were brainwashed were also easily reversed. catra basically died but not for more than 5 minutes, before adora brings her back to life. basically, there's nothing long-lasting about horde prime's actions and nothing intimidating about him.

i've already mentioned some of the other problems i have with horde prime's character, the main one being that.. he's just boring. it's so clear that horde prime was only created because catra and hordak were on their way to redemption, and the show needed a new threat. but horde prime is so lazily written, you barely register him as an actual villain.

in my opinion, there are three things you can add to a villain in order to flesh them out:

sympathetic qualities: the typical tragic backstory, misguided intentions, moments of humanization and compassion. it's an overdone trope but if utilized well and in moderation, it can be very compelling.

complex motives: even if you don't agree with their way of carrying out their plan, you do agree with their ideals or morals. you get where they're coming from and you can relate to their reason for doing what they're doing.

parallels with protagonist/hero: if your hero and villain have similarities or something that connects them, the stakes are automatically raised. there's the fear that the hero could end up like the villain, if they're not careful. even if we know that the hero is not gonna end up like the villain, there's still something satisfying about seeing two characters who are fundamentally the same person but on different sides with different experiences to back them up.

good ol' personality: if you want to create a pure evil villain who is just evil for the heck of it, that's fine. just make sure you give them something that makes them stand out, whether it's a flamboyant personality, witty quip or even a catchy musical number. this is the reason why most disney villains are so memorable despite having no complexity or redeeming qualities.

so, which one of these would work best for horde prime? any of them, honestly, but i would probably choose not to give him a tragic past, just because of how both catra and hordak already got those. i don't want to redeem all the villains of this show.

the other three are very applicable and can even be used all together. horde prime can have a complex motivation, parallels with adora (or heck, even catra) and have a compelling personality.

but honestly, just one of these is enough to flesh out a villain. for example, bill cipher from gravity falls has no tragic backstory, complex motive or parallels with the heroes. but what makes him so likeable and interesting to audience is his personality alone. he's humorous, he's snarky, he's chaotic and calmly admits to being crazy. his unique character design and insane power also makes him stand out from regular villains.

for another example, lord viren from the dragon prince is not very compelling, personality-wise. however, his goal of protecting and fighting for humans at any cost, and his parallels with callum make us want to see more of him and how his story ends.

in all these shows, the villains aren't just a decorative piece thrown into the story last-minute. whether they were introduced from the beginning or later on, they have a purpose. they pose a real threat and the main plotline is about defeating them. the romance is only secondary.

but in s5 of spop, the main conflict isn't “will adora stop horde prime from destroying the world?”, it's “will adora make out with her abusive sister?” or “can catra act like a responsible adult for once?” (hint: the answer is no.)

so either, you could explain why horde prime does what he does. all we know right now is his vague past with mara and the first ones, and his egotistic desire to “purify” everyone. while this is a good start, the show never elaborates on it. horde prime's character supposedly has themes of religious trauma but it's portrayed in an almost cartoonish way. we could have gotten more details about why he thinks his actions are justified. what he hopes to accomplish by purifying everyone.

or they could have given us a connection with horde prime and one of our protagonists. preferably adora. but no, the only character horde prime had a direct connection with was hordak. they could have expanded on that and shown more of their relationship. but instead of showing religious guilt and trauma through hordak, they replaced that with chipped catra. because of course, the only character whose trauma is acknowledged by the narrative is catra.

there were some clear-cut parallels between catra and horde prime (brainwashing people to turn them into weapons, abusing a family member, attempting to destroy the entire world) but they never even mentioned that. because that would mean reminding the audience that catra was just as bad as prime. it would have made for an interesting narrative, especially if catra acknowledged all of this and felt insanely guilty for doing all that she did, trying to do better so that she won't be like horde prime.

or, as a last resort, they could have given horde prime a personality. because in canon, his personality is just evil™ and egotistic. that's it. he's just a garden-variety villain and while his character design is interesting, there's nothing that stands out about him. (not to mention, giving him a hairstyle that resembles dreadlocks when he is supposed to be a representation of a white dictator)

i just feel like they could have made prime a really intimidating and complex villain but they completely missed the mark. horde prime is just a minor inconvenience in s5, the real threat is the “gay pining and angst” between catra and adora.

[mahpotatoequeen]

tdp - anastasia au

Thinking about a Dragon Prince Anastasia AU.

I don’t think I would change the universe very much- we would still have Katolis and Xadia, that long war and all those endless cycles of violence and grief within it. Moonshadow Assassins are still coming from the Silvergrove to enact their Dragon Queen’s vengeance. 

Here’s the difference: King Harrow and his sons aren’t home in Katolis. They’ve been travelling, visiting other dignitaries at a conference in some other human kingdom. It was presented as a way of family bonding, but there was something tight and drawn in Harrow’s eyes when he suggested it.

They go anyway. They meet other monarchs. They feast on fine food. Successful conferences are often followed by parties, and this one is no different. The music is lively and the moon is full.

Then the elven assassins come. It is chaos. People are screaming everywhere, Callum and Ezran get separated from their Dad, and well…. You know the rest is history.

FEATURING:

Callum: playing the amnesiac prince who only really has some thread-worn clothes and a small little chain with the symbol of Katolis embedded in what can’t possibly be real gold. He feels like he’s missing something, something important, and really wants to get the Kingdom of Katolis in hopes of figuring out his past. He’s sort of surprised when an elf shows up and claims he might be the missing prince though. It’s ridiculous. Preposterous. Straight up impossible. Even if it is a little weird that he can remember that the King’s favourite jelly tarts are the persimmon ones…. 

(Also, moonshadow elves with brilliant purple eyes are suddenly appearing a lot in his ragtag sketchbook??? No idea why. Really. It’s not like she’s pretty. It’s just. She’s very aesthetically pleasing. For art purposes. Ahem.)

Ezran: playing the child king who lost his brother and father in one fell swoop when he was nine years old. He’s twelve, and he’s exhausted, but he has managed to work together with the other kingdoms to broker something like a very, very tentative peace treaty with Xadia. Lord Viren is his advisor, but it seems more like he’s there to undermine and trip him up at every possible opportunity. Ezran’s trying to find a reason to fire him, but one of the constituents of his young rule was that Viren would be there to…guide him. So just straight up telling him to leave without reason won’t work. 

The last Ezran saw of his brother, he was alive. They had been running, and Callum had helped him up onto a horse and sent it cantering. He was supposed to have followed right behind him, but for some reason never did. He’s convinced that Callum must still be alive, though, even if that hope is dwindling. He’s offering a very high reward indeed for his sibling’s return.

(Ezran is tired. He’s tired, and he’s very, very lonely.)

Rayla: playing a moonshadow assassin who is desperately trying to redeem herself in the eyes of her people after letting the two princes get away through a hidden passage that fatal night. She’s been on her own for the last couple of years, ghosted from her home and more determined than ever to get this right. The protections around the palace have grown extensively since the attack, and If she has to use this nobody as a fake ‘brother’ in order to get close enough to King Ezran and finish the job, then so be it. 

(Rayla doesn’t plan on falling in love. Stupid humans.)

Bait: Has gone on a miniature quest to find Big Brother Human himself, cause his Human is SAD and HAS BEEN SAD for SO LONG and it’s Not Good. He’s surprised, then, after a while of mindless wandering, to actually find Big Brother Human, smelling and looking a little worse for wear and definitely older, but. He’s got charcoal on his fingers. He scratches under Bait’s chin the same.  His Human is gonna be so happy. 

Bait forgot how annoying it was, though, that Big Brother Human does not understand him. If the Two Idiots would listen to him, they would not encounter HALF the problems they did. 

(When all this is over, Bait’s gonna have some tales to tell.)

Viren: playing a royal advisor who is more than a little bitter that the crown has gone to an inexperienced child over him. He had been there, the night King Harrow had died, and he had made… sacrifices for his cause. This was not supposed to be the result. 

Still, he is making leeway in winning the council over. The ridiculous treaty Ezran has made with the elves is shaky, and he can use this to his advantage. You can imagine his frustration, however, when he hears rumours about that overprivileged mongrel surviving. Callum had seen something, that night, that could ruin everything Viren has worked for. Something he could not be allowed to remember, or to live and tell the tale. 

(The mirror in his basement has its own magics, its own way of reaching through miles upon miles and placing danger in an elf and a supposed prince’s path.)

Claudia and Soren: Working under their father’s orders, they’ve been given commands to make sure that the elf and a magical fake Callum never reach the palace, because they’re an endangerment to the crown and the kingdom’s safety. A trick from Xadia, according to Viren. A plot against the king. 

(Soren asks what they do if it is the real Callum. I bet you know the answer.)

Amaya: Has moved closer to home with the withdrawing military presence after the peace treaty, as an extra measure of security and out of guilt of leaving her only family left alone for so long. She started conducting initial interviews of potential ‘Prince Callum’s’ the fifth time Ezran had come to her room, frustrated tears in his eyes, shakily signing about how he doesn’t understand why people would lie about being his brother like that, don’t they get how cruel that is? To give him hope and wrench it away?

Does she believe that her nephew is actually alive? No. Not really. Is the experience of interviewing people claiming to be Callum its own twisted brand of grief? Yeah. Sort of. But she’s willing to do it so that Ezran doesn’t have to, in hopes of making it some of those missing years for him. She’s shoring herself up for when he’s ready to hold a funeral, to stumble her way through helping him with this grief. She wishes Sarai was here. 

(She also thinks that Viren is a piece of shit, but that is its own thing.)

[sarasade]

Part of me almost hopes that Viren's story arc will end in a disproportionately cruel way, you know.

I'm just so tired of seeing a character doing one good thing before they die or trying to change before they die and instead of the audience taking that as purposeful ambiguity the discussion will center around if the character was "Redeemed".

But imagine if he was punished so harshly that even the Viren haters would feel bad for him. Now that would be interesting! I've seen some dark speculation around season 5 so I'm looking forward to seeing how the show will contextualise his arc.

I don't understand why "Redemption" is such a popular talking point when centering villains (ok I actually do. I'm looking at you, Zuko).

"Sin and Atonement" and "Redemption" are deeply Christian themes. I don't think those should be a universal frame of reference to all stories.

Yes, yes, this is more of a fandom problem, not a show problem. But if people want to see a bad character harshly punished for their crimes maybe they should get that for once. I don't really mind because I think Viren, while unlikeable, is a sympathetic character already. Of course I feel for a character even if they are "irredeemable". That's what stories are for.

I don't mean it's a completely useless way to look at art but it's just- I don't know- I'm bored? Especially YouTube commentators talk about redemption constantly instead of engaging with the themes that actually are there.

Sometimes villains can't even really make up for everything they have done, just like some people in real life. Viren has committed so many crimes- like how do you even fix that? However it'd still be interesting if he tried to change. That's what I'm here for. Like Viren and Claudia are not just an antagonistic counterforce to our heros but they have a lot of going on as unique characters.

Viren has his saviour complex and values domination over cooperation. Claudia is interesting because she's both the victim and the perpetrator. It's interesting how self-sufficient she is while being deeply emotionally codependent on Viren. She has a ton of agency as a physically (magically?) strong person but not a ton of agency as an independent, emotionally strong individual. Viren and Claudia love each other but it's isolating kind of love where they don't really have anyone else but each other (Terry is really trying to get in there. Like sorry Terry you don't know how fucked up these two are lmao).

No wonder it was so easy to Aaravos take Viren's place as an authority figure in Claudia's life after Viren died. Or at least that's what I took away from Lost Child short and TDP season 4 in general.

I still think about the first information we got outside Viren and Claudia's POV about Aaravos's mirror: Runaan's warning about "A Fate Worse Than Death".

This framing device sounds really important. I've been wondering how it'll play out eventually. Is it something about Viren losing his old life he worked so hard to build, or will he lose Claudia in some metaphorical or literal way? Is it something even more personal?

Personally, I'd love to see Viren live and change as a person. There are plenty of high-fantasy male characters like him who go through that kind of transformation: Guts from Berserk, Geralt of Rivia, Jaime from GoT, Ged the Wizard... You know, characters who realise that the things they value are unsustainable or even harmful to themselves and to people around them and even to the world as a whole. Or they realise that superficial things like status and power are unfulfilling and only serve status quo. There are some parallels to toxic masculinity/ hegemonic masculinity, too.

However, I think it'd be interesting if Viren's story will be a deeply tragic one. Anyway I'm here for this.

[evilestgentleman]

Round 1.7

Walt Propaganda

he lured a guy to his Giant Monster Teammate and said "i brought you a midnight snack" and just sat back and ate an apple while watching the guy get eaten. like he actually does get redeemed later but i think "happily watching a guy get eaten alive" still counts as evil. but at the same time he's like... got a nice suit (at least in human form) and a posh accent and he's very neat and tidy and calculating compared to the other members of the Evil Squad. the other villains are brutish and messy, but Strickler does everything with patience and finesse. ALSO he's like, pretty nice to the hero, all things considered. helps him out after school, checks in on his mental/emotional wellbeing, etc. overall just simultaneously a really nice caring guy and a sadistic manipulative freak. literally the best character in the series im so mad he was barely in it after season 1

Viren Propaganda

First of all his whole vibe is a constant "I'm smarter than you and I know it, and there's nothing you can do about it." Just OOZES smarminess and the worst part is that it's actually???? Deserved?!?!??! He is genuinely charming and well liked and you just HATE THAT about him. Anyways regarding his actual crimes: stole a dragons egg (and considering dragons are sentient creatures with their own cultures and cities and can communicate with others with no problems he basically just STOLE A BABY), claimed it was a weapon of mass destruction so he could run experiments on it, and got away with it because no one knows enough about magic to prove him wrong. Tried to take over the throne after the king (whom he considered a brother) by saying the princes were dead (they were not). Told his kids (who are good kids and were really good friends with the princes) separately to kill the princes. And then gaslit them into thinking that he didn't say that when the kids actually talked to each other cause they thought it was weird. He also very clearly favors his magic using kid and dismisses his Crown Guard kid and it makes me so mad because they are siblings who would do anything for each other (as proven in the show) and he just keeps pitting them against each other. Tried to convince the neighboring kingdoms to start a race war. When a 12 yr old told him that was stupid and she wasn't doing it, causing the others to follow her lead, he sent assassins to all of them and framed the elves and ACTUALLY started a race war. Also canonically supports Trans rights but tells people to "stop crying and get over it" when they're upset they committed a murder. He's done a lot more war crimes and nature crimes (but i figured the first 2 seasons covered enough), has been called a dilf, is divorced, has died and been brought back to life, and might be a little gay though there's no canon proof yet. 

[self-spaghettification]

Hypothetically Viewing Viren as Unsympathetically as Possible

he not only coined 3 elves just for? sadistic reasons?

there’s that too

he also coined his own old dark magic mentor for unknown reasons which is kinda fuckin insane —like at least for the others he has the excuse of not knowing them or gaining empathy for them

that points to viren actually having carried out the soul serpent plan against harrow’s will and turned him into a bird which is!! yk!! INSANE!! he couldn’t just let him die he had to turn him into a bird and then fake mourn him so he could take the throne

and if that theory is true then im sensing a pattern for this mf —killing someone to take power

in viren’s dream, perhaps a flashback, kppar tells him he knew he’d go far but he didn’t know he’d go that far for power, implying viren has also done other horrible things to gain power-become part of the royal court and get the position of high mage perhaps?

even his kids he doesnt rlly care abt them, he just views them in terms of himself, people to pass on his knowledge or self onto, legacy

which is part of the reason why he praises claudia so much and dislikes soren

he doesnt see them as individuals with their own merit

it’s so fucked😭

concession: of course there’s those 2 ways to interpret viren- morally grey or evil and its possible to want to romanticize what he’s done, romanticize his connection with harrow or his kids as a tragic character doing what’s necessary, or blame aaravos.

and theres always other possibilities—like maybe he coined kppar in self defense or because k'ppar was gonna do something terrible

and maybe he didnt bird harrow??

but like

the latter, the unsympathetic viren, makes more sense- especially since when viren has fever dreams it goes over these past choices, his interaction with kppar, dream harrow putting viren’s soul into the bird (probably the opposite of what harrow did to viren) and how viren talks abt his regret ie: “i’m tired of taking power/trying to be someone important”

he doesnt say “im tired of trying to change things for the better” so it just seems to reinforce the idea that all the choices he made up to that point were well.. to take power? to gain recognition? or in more grey cases to selfishly save what he cared about, like soren?

sooo yeah

2. since he’s terrible, he doesn’t deserve a simple death of being killed off, he actually deserves to suffer on his redemption arc

he deserves feeling very awkward trying to apologize to the elves after rayllum uncoins them

and he deserves having to struggle to be on good terms with soren again

he doesnt deserve to just die

and that’s what tdpo has plans for

link to post on why he’s getting redeemed!!!

is this a bump on his inner journey?

This confirms that Viren’s not getting killed off, because he never got the chance to interact with Soren before dying. so yeah

He’s been a Terrible Person and He Doesn’t Deserve a Quick Death (He Deserves to Struggle Through a Redemption Arc)