#Tifa theory

[tifa-simp]

In this essay I will try to convince everyone this means there'll be a triple synergy attack that can only be activate when Tifa's party leader-

[somebodys-nightmare]

Those Chosen by the Planet: Are Cloud & Tifa Soulmates?

We know from the OG/Compilation that Cloud & Tifa share a deep emotional and spiritual bond. But after Rebirth, I am curious about the true nature of their connection and how soul-bound they really are - and why.

In order to organize this efficiently, I’ve broken this down into parts to best explain both background information as well as specific events that have led me to my conclusions/thoughts. The outline is as follows:

Part 1: The Lifestream (Background)

Part 2: What’s Happening with Cloud?

Part 3: The Lifestream Scene (Chapter 9)

Part 4: The Reunion Flower & Tifa’s Trial

Part 5: The Ending

Part 6: The Lifestream Scene (OG/Part 3)

Part 7: Those Chosen by The Planet: Soul-bound

Let's get started!

Part 1: The Lifestream (Background)

To set the context, I want to first explain my thoughts on the nature of the Lifestream, which is the primary worldbuilding and lore context of FFVII and in particular, how it is being explored in the FF7R trilogy.

In the FFVII Rebirth Ultimania, scenario writer Mr. Nojima shares that he studied Buddhism’s Yogacara & Jung’s theory of the ‘collective unconscious’. He states these concepts inform the “worldview” of the story and give hints about the mysteries and the ending of the trilogy.

I believe that he is referring specifically to the multiple “worlds” that we see in FF7R, which in turn are manifestations of the Lifestream. Let’s break these down first. I will try to explain these concepts as succinctly and relevantly to FFVII as possible.

Yogacara is a school of Buddhist philosophy that states our experiences of the world are shaped entirely by our mind. What we perceive as the external world is really a projection of our consciousness. Thus, everything we experience is a result of mental activities & states.

There are 8 levels of ‘consciousness’ in the Yogacara philosophy:

1-5: The 5 Senses Consciousness: Sight, hearing, smell, taste, and touch. These are the things we “experience” in reality through our body’s physical perceptions.

6: The Mind Consciousness: The mental process that integrates and interprets the above sensory information. This is how our mind translates the Sense consciousness of what we see, hear, feel, etc.

7: The Self Consciousness: The aspect of consciousness that involves the sense of self and ego. This is the level of consciousness that revolves around our identity and how it relates to everything else.

8: The Storehouse Consciousness: The deepest level of consciousness that stores all past experiences and ‘karmic seeds’, influencing current and future experiences. These also shape and store an individual's hopes and dreams.

I believe that the Yogacara philosophy forms the lore’s basis of the ‘individual’ consciousness of a person, or their soul, as it relates to the Lifestream. Every human being has their own individual “Lifestream” which becomes a part of the “collective” Lifestream at death.

In this process, a person’s consciousness diffuses into the collective consciousness of the Lifestream. Considering what is happening to Cloud in the game, it is important to understand how the Yogacara and its levels of consciousness influence this lore.

Additionally, it's important to understand that both Sephiroth & Aerith are able to maintain their individual consciousness & not “diffuse” into the Lifestream. This is why after death they are still both ‘whole’ & able to traverse the Lifestream “worlds”.

Which brings me to…

The Collective Unconscious: In psychology, Jung’s collective unconscious describes the part of the unconscious mind that contains shared memories and archetypes common to all humanity.

These universal symbols & experiences influence our thoughts, feelings, & behaviors, connecting us to the broader human experience. It explains why people from different cultures or time periods can share myths, symbols, & themes in their stories and dreams.

I believe these both set basis for the “collective consciousness” of the Lifestream & its relation to the indivdual, which contains the essence of the planet & the memories, emotions, & knowledge of all who lived on it. In Rebirth, we see two representations of the Lifestream:

1. The Physical Lifestream: below ground, represented by ethereal green liquid, energy wisps, and rocky landscapes of the planet’s core. This is where Tifa falls in Gongaga, where the WEAPONs & Whispers are fighting, and where Sephiroth’s true form is.

It is also where Tifa sees fixed memories represented by holographs. This also seems to be the form of Lifestream reality in which the OG Lifestream scene takes place, again seen by the physical structures and the manner in which Cloud and Tifa fell into it in Mideel.

I believe the manifestations of individual consciousness/soul, or an individual’s lifestream, are seen here. Note that there is a physical battle between “the planet & its enemies” seen here and that Sephiroth is seen fighting perhaps more strenuously & aggressively than anywhere else, where we typically do not see his true form.

2. The Metaphysical Lifestream: This seems to be the “plane” of existence that manifests in infinite branches & paths, represented by rainbow imagery we see throughout the game & manifests the “worlds” present in 'Zack’s Story', each marked by a different breed of Stamp.

I believe that this is the manifestation of the “collective” Lifestream, thus containing memories, emotions, knowledge, AND hopes and dreams of the collective spirits within it.

This is where Zack’s realities manifest, representing, it seems, unfulfilled desires or unfinished business, creating a purgatory of sorts or a confluence of memories and emotions. Sephiroth and Aerith seem to have great power in and over these manifestations in different ways, which I believe is also a source of the conflict involving Zack (a separate conversation).

Now that we understand how the Lifestream seems to be functioning, this brings me to…

Part 2: What’s happening with Cloud?

Cloud’s true self/spirit/psyche is currently shattered within the collective unconscious of the metaphysical Lifestream. This is the definition of mako-poisoning, especially in a severe case like Cloud’s.

We see this explained with Jessie’s dad, as well as with Cloud in Mideel in the OG. When a person comes into prolonged contact with mako, they are at risk for information overload from the knowledge of the collective of the Lifestream.

This can cause a person to lose their sense of self, similar to how a person’s consciousness/soul diffuses into the Lifestream upon death. In the case of a living person who cannot withstand the mako poisoning, however, they become “trapped” or “shattered” in the Lifestream.

At this stage, Cloud is still functioning because his contact with Tifa allows him to “wake up” & build a persona, aided by the Jenova cells reading her memories, by his own desires & delusions of grandeur, and his memories of Zack’s experience.

However, we see his true, broken consciousness throughout the collective unconscious of the metaphysical Lifestream (Zack’s side story).

Tifa’s role, as we know, is to help Cloud restore his sense of self after further mako poisoning following the events of the Northern Crater when his false persona is broken and he falls into the Lifestream.

Which brings me to…

Part 3: The Lifestream Scene (Chapter 9)

There’s a lot to say about Chapter 9 and Gongaga, but Tifa falling into the Lifestream is arguably the most important scene in the game as far as foreshadowing for the final installment of the trilogy.

This scene’s purpose is to solidify Tifa’s heroine role for the third game and to prepare her for the task she will undertake, while giving basis for it - a basis that was famously unexplained in the OG but has now been fleshed out.

Tifa falls into the reactor’s mako pool & is carried directly into the physical Lifestream by the WEAPON in the earth’s core. Here, she sees her fixed memories, represented directly in the rocky terrain of the planet, & surrounded by energy wisps and liquid of the Lifestream.

While locations are fixed, images of memories are represented and play out with green holograms, and voices by green pulsing energy wisps. She also sees the white Whispers of the planet & the black Whispers of Sephiroth/Jenova fighting, & Sephiroth’s corruption of the Lifestream via Jenova, aka “Black” or “Negative” Lifestream, represented by purple energy.

Note that Sephiroth, in his true form, physically attacks Tifa & the WEAPON carrying her here.

I can’t say for sure, but while these are definitely Tifa’s memories, they also seem to be Cloud’s. Before Tifa falls into the Lifestream, Cloud becomes vulnerable to Sephiroth’s mental attack because of the effects of the mako fumes in the reactor. This leads me to believe there is an opening for Cloud’s consciousness in the Lifestream to be connected to Tifa's, and that the Planet took the opportunity of Tifa being pushed into the mako (by Cloud) to connect them.

The memories Tifa sees are her own but are also Cloud’s, and given the context of Gongaga but also Cloud’s identity crisis and the entire internal conflict, this is significant and what we must focus on.

The perspectives of the memories are more Cloud-centric - in 2 out of 3 the camera is behind Cloud (bridge and Tifa’s house) and in the third, the memory focuses on what Tifa is saying to Cloud (water tower).

We also have to consider Tifa’s lack of awareness of events and her memory loss during these memories. The Planet seems to be showing her these scenes from Cloud’s perspective to inform and prepare her prior to her duty in disc 2/part 3.

There are also untouched memory locations you can spot in the scene: the gates of Nibelheim, Stargazer Heights, and Seventh Heaven. The Nibelheim gates we know are important for Cloud’s identity from the OG Lifestream scene.

Stargazer Heights is where Cloud tells Tifa he remembers the promise (curiously, that memory is placed close to the water tower memory.)

And while Cloud and Tifa have obviously a lot of interactions in Seventh Heaven, I think the critical moments are actually those seen in Ever Crisis after Tifa finds Cloud at the train station, as those memories directly influence Cloud’s identity.

The “planet and its enemies” - The WEAPONs, Whispers, and Sephiroth and Jenova - are physically fighting over these memories. Sephiroth tries to kill Tifa here. We see the purple corruption of Lifestream Black occurring in this scene.

We see Tifa on the brink of death and seeing Cloud’s spirit being led away from her and her voice silenced from him by Sephiroth.

It seems to me that following this event, Cloud and Tifa’s consciousness’ are already linked. Tifa also has been given preemptive strength and knowledge to save Cloud when the time comes in part three.

Which brings me to…

Part 4: The Reunion Flower

The Reunion Lily appears on the mailbox of Tifa’s house twice: In Cloud’s flawed flashback of the Nibelheim Incident in Kalm, and during Tifa’s Trial in the Temple of the Ancients.

It does not appear at her house during the fixed memory in the Chapter 9 Lifestream scene. I think this is because the flower wasn’t actually there, but is rather a “totem” or marker of Cloud’s psyche.

Cloud knows from events in Remake what the flower symbolizes. In his flashback, he falsely remembers that he and Tifa reunited with him being a SOLDIER, though we know this isn’t true because he hid himself from her.

The flower reappears during Tifa’s Trial in the ToTA. Her trial takes place during the promise scene & the Nibelheim Incident, the same period as Cloud’s flashback, and when she was hoping to reunite with him - but thinks that she did not (because Cloud hid himself).

In the OG, the appearance of young Cloud is representative of the Real Cloud and his psyche. My belief is that his appearance here is another indication that after Tifa falls into the Lifestream, Cloud and Tifa are mentally and spiritually connected.

Next...

Part 5: The Ending

While the ending may be confusing, several replays make it clear to me that Aerith is dead & that once again, the metaphysical Lifestream (indicated by rainbows) is in play in what we see.

Cloud, who is shattered in the collective unconscious of the metaphysical Lifestream, can see what is “manifested” in these worlds. Similarly, these worlds are influenced not only by memories, and knowledge, but by hopes, dreams, and desires.

Without going off on another tangent, I think Cloud is seeing the manifestation of his desire to save Aerith’s life in the metaphysical Lifestream & that she is temporarily aiding him in this delusion (remember, Aerith can maintain her sense of self within the LS after death).

After the murder, Barret & Tifa run up & we are given BOTH of their perspectives of this death scene. Barret very clearly only sees the real-world scene - Aerith dead, bleeding, etc.

However, when we get Tifa’s perspective, she sees glimpses of what Cloud sees - including his mental static - with interspersed scenes of the real-world death and the rainbow Lifestream where Aerith is not dead or bleeding but is "saved”.

Tifa is quite confused & horrified but seems to accept the actual scene - her death. She is not deluded or blocking things out, she knows what is real.

It’s confusing but it is purposefully clear to me that Tifa is seeing, or can see, what Cloud sees. It is not revealed how much Tifa knows is Cloud’s delusion but it is clear that she is deeply affected, not only by the murder of her friend but by something else.

And Tifa remains disturbingly distraught for the rest of the game. In fact, when she calls Aerith’s name in this scene it’s her last line in the game - she does not speak again. Once again, this is a clue to me that Cloud & Tifa are soul-bonded bc of the chapter 9 events.

In the ending CGI, Cloud tells the group not to look up. Barret does and says he doesn’t see anything. Tifa looks up but doesn’t comment, instead continues to look distressed. Does she also see the rift that Cloud sees? Her behavior is the most jarring of the entire party.

In the penultimate cinematics, we see the WEAPONS circling Tifa & Cloud’s memories again, trying to protect them from “the planet’s enemies”. We can see Tifa’s house, the bridge, and the gates of Nibelheim under them.

These sequences are plot arrows for what we should expect to see in Part 3. It should be lost on no one that the planet is actively fighting to protect Cloud & Tifa’s precious memories, especially after personally guiding Tifa through them.

Which brings me to...

Part 6: The Lifestream Scene (OG/Part 3)

All of the above has led me to conclude that Cloud & Tifa are now spiritually or “soul-bound” in some way, explicitly for the preparation of the Lifestream Scene of Part 3.

Tifa’s role is to help Cloud “restore his sense of self” by entering his individual Lifestream and navigating their fixed memories and the truth about his identity in the physical Lifestream, which occurs when they fall in Mideel.

Rebirth has not only prepared Tifa for this role, but has given us the navigation, insight, and background lore for how it will occur and what the experience might actually entail. This may include elements of both the physical and Metaphysical Lifestream mentioned above.

It has set the stage for an in-depth expansion of the original scene that does not solely focus on what happened when rebuilding Cloud’s psyche, but the why behind his choices and decisions that let them to this moment.

These scenes have also demonstrated why Cloud’s consciousness - his individual Lifestream consciousness that contains his “self-consciousness” and “storehouse consciousness”- is and will remain closed off to anyone other than Tifa.

This is where Cloud’s true desires are concealed and must be revealed to Tifa in the Lifestream scene to facilitate his restoration and their reunion and reconciliation.

Which brings me to…

Part 7: Those Chosen by The Planet- Soulmates?

Why is all of this happening? Cloud is the boy who is destined to save the planet, and Tifa is destined to save him. If the planet has memories of the future as well as the past, then it knows this.

Just like the planet knows that it needs the last Cetra in the Lifestream to help save it, it also knows that it needs Cloud to defeat Sephiroth. And I think the planet has known this for a long time.

Is it far-fetched to wonder if the planet is somewhat responsible for the genesis of Cloud and Tifa’s bond? That, in keeping with the theme of fate, it has influenced the circumstances that have both brought them together and pulled them apart throughout the Compilation?

Is it possible that the planet kept baby Cloud and Tifa alive during the bridge incident? Now, with the context of the Remake Trilogy, I don’t see how two small children survived that fall.

Are Cloud and Tifa chosen by the Planet?

Are they soul mates?

Maybe we’ll find out.

Thanks for reading!

[strelitzia-mystery1097]

My FF7R Part 3 theory

*spoilers for FF7, FF7 Rebirth, etc*

So... this theory is based off the 'Cloud snapped and thinks he saved Aerith' theory. TL;DR due to all the extra mind screwing Sephiroth has done this time around, Cloud couldn't take Aerith's death so he's convinced himself that she's totally fine and that he totally saved her!

Anyways, let me ask you this. What exactly caused Sephiroth to lose in FF7? He was extremely close to achieving his goal but he made a mistake that cost him greatly.

He underestimated Cloud.

Remember back then Sephiroth wasn't NEARLY as obsessed with Cloud as he is now. He didn't really think much of Cloud apart from a puppet. But Cloud to Sephiroth wasn't any different from black robed Sephiroth clones. Yeah Cloud killed him, but he was just a lowly Infantryman.

Cloud was a pawn on the board he exploited, not his foil and his obsession.

So in the OG, once Cloud had fulfilled his purpose and gave Sephiroth the Black Materia, it makes sense that Sephiroth left Cloud to drown the Lifestream when the WEAPONS woke up. Sephiroth just threw him away like a broken toy not worth thinking about.

And that's where he went wrong.

Cloud washing up in Mideel, Tifa helping him piece together his memories, Cloud regaining his true self, these things led to Cloud being strong enough to face and kill Sephiroth. Cloud had proven himself more than a puppet and Sephiroth lost because of this arrogance.

So that's why Sephiroth in Remake and Rebirth keeps hounding Cloud and making him have way more mental breaks than he did in OG.

That's why Sephiroth wants Tifa dead too because to a lesser extent he underestimated her too. He used Tifa to break Cloud in the Northern Crater by showing the accurate memories. But he didn't expect her to piece together Cloud's mind. Tifa can help Cloud be stable therefore it would better for Sephiroth if she died.

But yeah Sephiroth is trying to break Cloud and make him be more of a puppet this time. For example, Sephiroth hijacks Cloud's 'inner Cloud' moments in Remake. Instead of being warned of the Reactor, Cloud sees a feather. Cloud talking to himself about scraping his knees falling down a great height gets interrupted by Sephiroth. And in Rebirth these 'inner Cloud' moments are not even there. The dream in Junon and us playing as kid inner Cloud as the body gives Sephiroth the Black Materia are absent.

Cloud in Rebirth starts to take some of Sephiroth's fighting stances and word for word sentences as well when he's supposed to be impersonating Zack.

(Also if you ask "Well why doesn't Sephiroth make Cloud stab himself so that Cloud can't stop him?" Remember that Sephiroth in AC goes out of his way to torment Cloud and give him Despair. If Cloud lost the fight you can bet he wouldn't of just killed Cloud. He would make Cloud watch him kill everything and everyone he cherishes because Sephiroth is petty like that. Sephiroth would make Cloud suffer forever if he could. That's why he saved Cloud's life in the swamp.)

And if you don't believe me that Sephiroth constantly harassing and messing with Cloud's head isn't making Cloud more mentally damaged, then replay/rewatch the differences in the OG and Rebirth post Temple of the Ancients. In the OG Cloud is self-aware and terrified that Sephiroth can control him and almost doesn't go after Aerith because he's scared of learning the truth of himself.

Rebirth Cloud does not do these things. He just... doesn't acknowledge what happened. When Yuffie asks how did Sephiroth get the Black Materia if he didn't beat up Cloud and he just goes "Uh..." and Yuffie rambles on and Cloud just ends up agreeing that Sephiroth totally beat the hell out of him. And when Tifa asked Cloud to let her know if he starts thinking weird thoughts and he asks her what she means. She gives the example of thinking she's not real and he apologises but- CLOUD YOU JUST WENT THROUGH A DEGRADING AND AWFUL EXPERIENCE OF SEPHIROTH MAKING YOU A PATHETIC PUPPET DESPERATE FOR THE BLACK MATERIA! HOW DO YOU NOT THINK 'Oh hey maybe that counts as weird thoughts'.

Which all results in Cloud blocking out that Aerith is dead because Cloud's now more insane.

Sephiroth has his claws deep in Cloud's brain.

But what is this all leading up to?

Here's where I go into pure theory and speculation.

At the Northern Crater, Sephiroth will not only show the truth of Nibelheim, but also Aerith's death and shatter Cloud's mind.

But...

Sephiroth isn't going to let Cloud be washed away and he isn't going to let Tifa fix his brain. He's going keep his puppet with him. Sephiroth will put up that barrier around the Crater to defend himself from the WEAPONS and Shin-ra, and make sure Cloud's on the other side of barrier this time.

So when the barrier and the party goes in to fight Sephiroth, they will be forced to fight Puppet Cloud.

I call this 'The Puppet Cloud Boss Fight Theory' btw.

But yeah they will be forced to fight their mind broken friend. (Bonus points if Cloud's theme plays as a boss fight remix. Also bonus bonus points if Cloud at one stage of the fight gets a bat wing on his left KH Style.)

The fight will end with Cloud being pushed into the Lifestream (by Tifa probably to mirror Clpud doing that in Rebirth) and then Cloud washes up in Mideel all make poisoned.

Maybe instead of that WEAPON attacking Mideel it's Sephiroth trying to stop history from repeating. OOO or maybe Sephiroth fights that WEAPON!

But either way Tifa and Cloud end up in the Lifestream.

Maybe one of the reasons Zack is here from another world or whatever is because the damage to Cloud's psyche is too much now for just Tifa to fix alone and Zack and Tifa go through a buddy road trip through Cloud's mind. Or maybe Zack will being having a boss fight with Sephiroth in the background to stop him from interfering.

...

And that's the theory! Maybe later I will figure out how the empty materia is involved or all the wacky worlds stuff. But that's my theory for now.

[smashbrosodyssey64]

Was watching an LP for fic inspy and it occurred to me how dutifully Tifa is listening to Cloud's story despite the obvious inconsistencies. Just when I was drafting a post of how much that shows her love for him, I realized that because Tifa outright tells her about Cloud's story (and presumably mentions Zack) Aerith's been aware since Kalm too, and goes along. Both girls keep the illusion going to keep their crush (and friend, in Aerith's case) safe and I think that's a cool detail.

[dark-elf-writes]

Yes!!!!! And also a time traveler that no longer fits in anywhere.

The people they loved and managed to connect with despite everything no longer being able to relate to them. Them not experiencing the same traumas that once tied them so tightly together.

The time traveler seeing their once peers as children now, no matter how old they get. Who views adults as peers but is only looked down on in turn.

This is why the Chaos Theory AU fucks me up so much and why I had to have one person who even sort of remembered.

Because Cloud knows in a distant way that in an ideal world he will never see most of his friends again. Not in a way he will recognize them. Not in a way they will recognize him. He doesn’t understand it but he knows.

He knows when he learns how to read a calendar and realizes Yuffie hasn’t been born.

He knows when he hears news about the possibility of a Shinra space program in the works.

He knows whenever he hears news about Corel.

He knows every time Tifa looks at him and sees another kid rather than her friend.

He knows that he will never have his friends again, never be able to cling to them as tightly as he dared with his enhanced strength and have them cling back just as tightly. Knows that their little unit that seemed so closely knit will likely never even cross paths.

Tbh without Vincent sort of remembering him through Chaos he might have shattered entirely in this horrific new reality where nothing has happened yet but each and every one of them are walking a tightrope only he knows about.

He misses them, of course he does, sometimes so much that he can’t breathe through it, but he knows that if everything goes right they will never miss him in return.

He wants it to go right.

He wants his family back.

[ffvii-series-incorrect-quotes]

[crisiscutie]

Have you watched the new FF7 trailer? Let us know your toughts! XD

My current questions are these:

1. During flashback where Sephiroth slashed Tifa off, he said that she's dead and "...so who is she"? I don't remember the OG much, but does he speaks the truth? Or maybe he's merely gaslighting Cloud to hand over black materia?

2. What do you think Ever Crisis is about? Will we finally able to play as Sephiroth? I have a bad feeling of it being developed for mobile phone...

3. Anything else you notice?

Hello, anon! Yes, I've seen the trailer for Rebirth and Ever Crisis, so let's hop right into C.C's analysis/ramble. Unedited and Unhinged. Disclaimer: These are just my opinions, of course.

༻❁༺ Tifa DIES!?

I don't think so... the Crisis Cutie is definitely messing with Cloud here. And he's messing with US. Sephiroth is aware of our existence. Yes, I mean "Us" and "Our". The 7R Universe is basically a self-aware AU, heh heh. He is determined to change fate, and he is doing whatever he can to make sure he wins, by manipulating us and Cloud into his plans.

I think the Whispers would've ensured Tifa's survival, as she is an important character in the FF7/7R universe. It's possible they revived her by the time Zack arrived to confront Sephiroth. I've always wondered how Tifa AND Cloud survived their gruesome injuries from Sephiroth, but The Whispers existing in the canon now make their survival logical (in my opinion)

And don't forget that 7R Sephy knows what happened in OG FF7, so it would make sense he would begin his new plan of sowing seeds of distrust between Cloud and Tifa. Remember that Tifa is also the one who repaired Cloud's mind, taking him right out of Sephiroth's clutches at the last moments. So it seemed logical that our trolling Sephy would want to carry out his threat, eventually. Sephiroth underestimated Tifa AND her connection to Cloud in the OG game, so he is definitely taking her more seriously this time around. Poor girl occupied a spot on Sephy's special hitlist...

One of my biggest questions I had in Remake is that I wondered why 7R Sephy didn't immediately off both Aerith and Tifa and beeline for the black materia considering his future knowledge, but I realized the existence of the Whispers prevents that: They're holding him back. So both Sephy and Jenova are planning around them to make their plans come to fruition. I still think the whole "Tifa dying" is an obvious red-herring, for now. Nothing says it can't happen in the next 7R game...

༻❁༺ What's up with the Miracle Cutie?

What I find the most suspicious is how quiet the trailer was regarding Aerith. I find it interesting how Tifa worryingly confided in Aerith about Cloud's absence from Nibelheim in the recent years... Aerith sounded worried herself about it. Her tone of voice gave it away. Like Sephiroth, she also has knowledge of OG FF7's events. She knows Tifa is the key to repairing Cloud. I also think this denial keeps the Whispers away and so Aerith's own plans won't be disrupted. The Whispers aren't just around to keep our Sephy snake in line; you know.

And while it was incredibly subtle, Remake was building up something between Aerith and Sephiroth... Guys, believe me when I say something is going to happen incredibly differently when Aerith "dies'. My theory is that her death will be delayed, due to Zack intercepting the party in some way. I also think instead of Sephiroth "killing" her the traditional way, I think he will corrupt her with Jenova's essence....

Aerith is Cetra and Human. Her Cetra DNA will surely try to expel the Jenova essence, yet her human DNA will surely be overwhelmed by it. So either Aerith will spontaneously combust (unlikely) or become a massive freak of nature (most likely), begging Cloud and the party to put her down. It can do so many wonders for Sephiroth's plan: Aerith is gone, Cloud is on the verge of breaking or WILL BREAK from being forced to kill a loved one or to see her be killed. And it's deliciously cruel, because Sephiroth can drink in the party's despair. And for a meta reason, this might happen: it'd be a bigger player punch for those who played the original and for newcomers to the series...

If Aerith doesn't die at the right moment, then I think the Whispers would end up working with Sephiroth to make it happen. Or maybe they will demand someone equally important to die in her place, thus making a trade of fate? It all depends on how the rules of FF7's time and space works. Maybe Ramuh will explain it to the party? Again, these are all just my opinions and speculations.

༻❁༺ The Ever Cutie

Ever Crisis seems cool, but the fact it's a mobile and gacha game is a huge turnoff for me. I will stick to Twitter, YT and the FF wiki for my daily dose of new Sephy lore, thank you very much. As I once said before, Sephy and the first class boyos are deserving of their own full-blown title. After so much resistance from the devs of not letting Sephiroth be playable, he finally is! ...In a gacha mobile game, sigh...

Anyway, it sounds like Ever Crisis will take us through several time periods of the FF7 multiverse. So it's at least semi-canon...

If what I read on twitter is correct, then it also seems the First Soldier will be retconned to be intertwined with Young Sephy's storyline, as it should be. Not sure what SE was thinking when releasing the First Soldier in the first place, it had so many lore inconsistencies...

And it seems like Sephiroth is getting a new friendo(?) to add to his small social circle.

It looks like we aren't getting anymore or little news for Rebirth now on, as Nomura said EC is meant to hold us over, so I hope those who play EC will enjoy it.

༻❁༺ What else did C.C notice?

I admit, I love Sephiroth's quote about Jenova.

"They say she’s a monster. That she can peer inside you, into the very depths of your soul. That she can become those you hate. Those you fear… Those you love.”

...because it's a big theme I'm trying to convey with the darling and Jenova in HoS.

Also, I do not take this as a quote of Sephiroth trying to warn Cloud. I think he's doing the opposite: he's rubbing it in! Going back to my point of him sowing the seeds of distrust between Cloud and Tifa, Sephiroth may even do it for Cloud and the whole party! I do not believe the common theory of a heroic Sephiroth being present. If Sephiroth ever changes his ways and joins the good side, it's something he will have to strive for and work towards in the storyline, I presume.

For a final thought, the trailer showed no mention or even a hint of Vincent, but unlike Aerith, I do believe this is more so than the fact he doesn't appear until later on. This is a random gut feeling, but maybe Vincent will have a major role this time? He could potentially aid in Sephiroth's redemption and go against fate, by convincing Lucrecia to leave her cave.. Lucrecia, for sure, will make an appearance. She is far too important to cut out.

I am very excited for Rebirth about the interesting and new things to bring. But also quite concerned... With all these mysteries and new story developments, Nomura and the writers may bite off more than they can chew...

[thefrostqueen]

Final Fantasy 7: Rebirth Theory

Tifa glitching in front of Cloud and then Sephiroth immediately saying Jenova can create realistic hallucinations of people you hate and love…

The glitches throughout the games aren’t Cloud having a moment. It’s Cloud almost breaking out of Jenova’s hallucinations.

[nierielfaegir]

My guess is that the reason Cloud is not showned with the others in this scene, is because this takes place in the "Zack survives" timeline and Cloud is with him. Because he's with Zack, and not with Avalanche, Barret, Tifa, Nanaki and Aerith weren't able to get out of sector 7 in time before the plate collapsed.

[mejomonster]

I finished final fantasy vii rebirth and. Some mixed opinions.

The main good points: as a Sequel to original FF7? Its good. The women are all written well (which was a concern considering Kairi and Lunafreya in past games), and everyone was in character just fleshed out more (with 2 slight exceptions). What the game did best was accomplish an open world game, world spanning adventure, stick fairly well to some main highlights from original ff7 (which is what people wanted for ages) and with new stuff thats fun if you like the world, very little wasting of player time (so much better than ff7 remake). It did open world well, pacing well, side quests and mini games well, characters well, combat well, and overall gave the feel of what square enix was maybe Hoping and Wishing to successfully accomplish in a mainline game for years but either hasnt been able to achieve on a technical level or fumbled in the past. (So no time wasting dungeons like ff7 remake, fleshed out open world with stuff you enjoy doing so more than ff15, open world so more than ff13, and combat that feels like things theyve learned and improved on well). How it feels to play? Great, fast paced, no dead time, all enjoyable game you came to play. (With the exception maybe of Cait Siths box mandatory mini game and the aerith in ancient temple magic platforms thing but they both werent too difficult to push through if you dont enjoy them).

The bad? Mostly... if you treat Rebirth as a SEQUEL to original ff7, these arent major issues. They just annoy me as a player of the original ff7 game. Because i know plenty of people will ONLY play ff7 Remake and Rebirth etc, and never know the original characterizations. So 2 characters were slightly unlike their original ff7 selves, and instead more like their Advent Children (and general non ff7 appearances) selves: aerith and sephiroth. Sephiroth's character being NOT like ff7 originals is more irritating personally. Because yeah... i get it. As a sequel to original ff7, this Remake/Rebirth Sephiroth might be from the future (so he is Advent Children esque version of himself), hes had time post losing his way to really get all mysterious and hyperfocus on cloud and be a looming vague pest. But the thing is... in the original ff7 the reason we learn hes used to be a SOLDIER war hero, is so the cast and you are confused why he kills Shinra people. Then you and the casy figure: well cloud remembers sephiroth finding out hes a monster cause of shinra, justifiable for sephiroth to hate shinra. Unflrtunately Sephiroth also decided to hate ALL HUMANS. Then you later find out maybe Jenovas controlling Sephiroth/one with him etc. But the key here is you find out at some point in original ff7 that sephiroths goal is mainly Destroy World because Hes not Human. Rebirth... does not clarify this very important and very BASIC point ever. Maybe it assumes its so basic that as a ff7 fan you should know.. but plenty of new players wont. Rebirth clarifies yes sephiroth may be Jenovas kid... but the whole MOM, im an ancient like Jenova! Oh Jenova isnt an ancient oh well fuck humans anyway! Either way fuck humans ill kill them all! None of those Very basic sephiroth motives are clarified much. I felt Rebirth did good explaining the Gi and the black materia. But to make Sephiroths motives so vague, why he wants to end the world SO VAGUE, why hes in clouds head (the black robes are everywhere but the game HINTS theure sephiroth clones but never actually spells it out eevn though its a BASIC KEY DETAIL). Now... because Rebirth is a sequel, it makes sense... if hes Advent Children Sephiroth he already knows he isnt an ancient, knows hes Jenovas kid, knows he wants to fuck with Cloud specifically now and the world generally but not necessarily so singlemindedly desperate to just kill all humans. So yes, Sephiroth is in character for his future self... but i feel like even with him less SINGLE MINDED and freshly with Jenova, clarifying some basics of his Original old timeline motives... would be helpful to new fans. So it annoyed me. I think the biggest Not Good writing decision in Rebirth was to never fucking clarify Sephiroths original basic goal: im not human like mom, hate humans, kill world. I suspect the writers either thought players KNEW so hinted instead of being on the nose (but to new players theyll just be CONFUSED), or they plan to explain those basic things in game 3. Which seems stupid to me and shouldve been explained earlier.

And Aerith. As a sequel? She remembered the other timeline which explained some moments she was calmer than original ff7. She forgot, then toward the end of Rebirth she seems to have remembered the other timeline again and that she needs to die and X happens etc. So her being calmer based on the plot they wrote for Rebirth? Makes sense. However... i deeply miss her Original FF7 personality where as an Ancient she freaks out a bit LIKE sephiroth, paralleling him, that shes not human, a freak, that it all rests on her as only one ancient left. Their overwhelm parallels each other. Aerith is more scared in original ff7 of being the only ancient, of what it means, of finding out more. That fear is slightly there in Rebirth but WAY LESS. its only a little in cosmo canyon and almost gone in the Ancient Temple. In ff7 expanded universe theyve changed her character over time to a calmer wiser goddess type like in Advent Children, and so yes in Rebirth when she remembers the alrernate timeline it makes sense she'd be calmer like her future self. However... i miss original ff7 aerith. I miss her initial shock, loneliness, fear of the weight on her shoulders, not being sure what to do. Her and Sephiroth, because of Rebirth writing them to know more, act more like their future selves and so. While it is in character and logical to the Rebirth plot. Its also sad to me that anyone who only plays Remake and Rebirth simply wont see what they were like WHEN these revelations were brand new shocks to them, forcing them to react and grow and fear. I dont think Aerith is written bad, i just think because this game is in reality is a Sequel im just personally mourning that it didnt have that as much of the original Aerith's personality who was afraid and discovering. Mostly her Rebirth personality is similar to original ff7s. But in some high tension moments shes way calmer and wiser than in the original. I miss getting to see some of that before to after character growth.

Oh and. The aerith dies scene. Does it make sense in context of Rebirth written as a sequel? Sure. Is it impactful? Not as much as the original. In Rebirth, theres a scene where Cloud is losing control and listening to Sephiroth and attacks Tifa, causing Tifa to fall into mako. That scene is high stakes and emotional and lands WELL. Later in Rebirth, when Aerith actually dies, Cloud has not lost control and isnt the one who killed her. Its fine, as a sequel to ff7 i get the choice to make him able to stop himself from hurting her. But it does make the scene less impactful: now cloud will NOT be blaming himself for her death, will not be struggling with the guilt and fear, and will not be as terrified of losing control again. Since he wasnt the one who attacked her. And since he saw her ghost/something post death, hes not even sad or grieving her. He thinks shes fine. These 2 things will result in a WILDLY DIFFERENT cloud moving forward than the original ff7 one who very much was distraught and horrified he did that. So like... as a sequel its fine these changes were made. But death wise... i wouldve prefered like, cloud drops her from up high qhile struggling with whispers, or doesnt get to her in time and sephiroth stabs her when shes too far away. The way Rebirth did it, cloud was near her, she gets stabbed anyway. It seemed to me almost like the writing was trying to vaguely or softly kill her, like somehow making it vague would make it hurt less. Yeah it did hurt less... but id rather if a character i love dies that its a Worthy Scene for them to die in. A strong meaningful scene that makes me cry, that felt like the loss it is. The Rebirth scene... couldve done its plot as intended and just make Cloud farther away or something and it wouldve been better to me. Maybe the writing point was Cloud thinks its fine, and its still not, and he cant even feel distaught because he cant tell if she died or if things are fine? Thats the only angle i can see where maybe the death scene did what the writers wanted? Anyway. Aeriths moms death made me sob, Aeriths death did not. It is what it is. I feel like Tifa, crying in my heart off screen, the game acting like Cloud like its fine and it looks fine to him but im confused like Tifa aa to why hes (the game) treating it that way. Lol.

Overall? Um 4/5. 8/10? Really solid square enix game, Amazing as far as final fantasy 7 SEQUELS go. It has one main weak spot in treating Sephiroth fully mysterious when a few clarifying details could help the game stand on its own Better (and make Sephiroth a stronger enemy character instead of a vaguer one). The other weak spots are more my personal preference and mourning the parts of ff7 original i miss and had wished were in this, but as this is a Sequel in a parallel timeline i dont feel the parts effect Rebirth on its own merit. It IS the best Square Enix game ive played in ages, at least since Final Fantasy X or XII. I thought it was better than FF13, FF15, definitely better than ff7 remake (i hate time wasting dungeons and bad pacing its a dealbreaker), and than kh3 (although kh3 was quite good for a kh sequel). I get to play FF16 next, which will hopefully be as good as Rebirth or better! Since its also on the PS5 and clearly from Rebirth, the square enix main team can do excellent combat, open world, level design, mini games, side quests, and good pacing now. So i'll just have to see if ff16's story is better. And i am guessing it hopefully will be, since Rebirth as an ff7 sequel has some weirdness to its plot quite typical of ff7 extended universe stories like Crisis Core and Dirge of Cerberus. Whereas ff16 is a brand new plot, so they have nothing preventing them from a tight excellent written story except themselves. I am curious how BIG ff16s world will be though. Because ff7 Rebirths world was MASSIVE and very full of stuff, tons of mini games, cool stuff to find or do or little character side quests. If ff16 also takes me 60 hours to beat the main story its gonna be thw longest final fantasy main title ive ever played.

Rebirth is very replayable if you enjoyed it. I will probably replay ff7 original soon.

[keykidpilipili]

KH seems to be moving away from minigame hub 100 Acre Wood with kh3. So i'm making a list of possible replacements as a joke:

Quadratum arcade corner(kh4 only?): Japan's arcade market is strong, also wreck it ralph cameos. The score boards could have cameos from other recurring characters present in the city like Yozora, Xehanort, Strelitzia or MoM.

Golden Saucer: could work if no gambling ingame(eu laws influenced pokemon remakes). The place could be accessible via gummi ship like the mirage arena, an actual flying saucer. You could fit races, accuracy and card games, dancing, an arena, photo booths(think remind simulator) a small theater(pokemon bw2) and most importantly COMMAND BOARD. The owner is unseen but all the top scores of the minigames were made by a STZR. If you beat all of those you get a special cutscene and bragging-rights crown accessory by the owner of the Saucer, Setzer Gabbiani.

Tyro's Roaming Shelves: basically similar to KH1/2's page and kh3's minigame collection, you unlock a different book aka sidegame through chest in different worlds. You use the books to project the minigame environment X[chi]/Unchained AR style. This would be another method to provide extra bosses, hard enemy waves without ten paragraphs of lore arguements. Blatantly defying world order by spreading the stories of other worlds but escaping backlash by people assuming it's all fiction. ;) There has been a record keeper collab in the past and it provided neat redesigns of established ff enemies.

[cyborgrhodey]

my spouse doesnt understand the shipper life, much less the multi poly shipper life 😔😔

[tifa-simp]

Oh? Never thought of this. But since you bring this up, I wonder if Gongaga LS and the Dream date suppose to be foils too.

Both girls fall from high place. Both girls take a brief trip to the afterlife. Both times Sephiroth is there to control Cloud and later goes after the girls.

With Tifa, Sephiroth uses the black whispers to manipulate the situation, takes over Cloud's body and only release his influence when the killing is done. Tifa's saved by the WEAPON, she hears her mother's, father's, old friends' voices guiding her to safety. Follow the voices, Tifa visits a lot of her special places like her house, the water tower, the Nibelheim bridge, we can see Seventh heaven and Stargazer height and Nibelheim entrance somewhere too. Then we see Sephiroth manifests from afar with his real body and immediately tries to kill Tifa but fails so he attacks the WEAPON instead (Also this is the only time we see Sephiroth canon struggles in a fight). However he does manage to make her suffocated and out cold. While being unconscious, Tifa sees even more of important people in her life (Barret, Dr Sheiran, Zangan and Aerith) and they all give her words of encouragement. Then we see the second time Sephiroth has talked to someone telepathically (the first is Cloud, if I'm wrong please correct me so I can fix it), mocks Tifa that her words can't reach Cloud no more. And after that, the WEAPON returns Tifa to the gang.

With Aerith, Sephiroth also controls Cloud but seem like it's not the same type of control in Gongaga. Cloud acts like an actual puppet in the Temple. And the black whispers attacks both Tifa and Aerith this time, not Cloud. When Aerith falls from the branch, either Cloud breaks free from the control or Sephiroth lets him go, he runs and saves Aerith and fall into the dream. In this dream, which takes place in sector 5 Midgard, we don't see Elmyra, Marlene or the sector 5 boy Oates, or anyone we know before, the only people we're familiar with in this world are Cloud and Aerith. Later we meet a bunch of npc that used to appear in Crisis core in Aerith and Zack's date. The difference that in this dream date, everything goes wrong. None of the gift options are available, their couple photo isn't chosen, all of the snack taste bad. At some point we can see the black feathers of Sephiroth flying around like he's taunting her. To end the date, Aerith asks Cloud to go to "their place" but Cloud didn't understand what she means at first. It's the church where Zack's sitting outside.(Fun fact, we can see a dog toy and a dog graffiti- likely reference to Zack, in previous date spots). After giving Cloud the white material, Aerith pushes Cloud to a portal and we can see Sephiroth is right behind her. It's unclear if Sephiroth's done anything to Aerith in the dream world, all we know that right after that, Sephiroth follows Cloud and shows him the true nature of reality. So my guess is that Sephiroth is after Cloud in the dream date than Aerith. Finally Aerith says goodbye to Cloud and they're back to reality.

Just like the parallels above, these 2 scenes mirror each other, one takes place in the Lifestream in the dark and one takes place in a seemingly afterlife world in broard daylight, one has memories of real Cloud and one has Cloud in the flesh of another variant of himself. One has Sephiroth directly attacks her and one has Sephiroth seems to skip her to aim for Cloud. One receives a lot of supports from all the dear people in her life and one has none.

A fun side parallel that I noticed after checking the dream date.

These are Tifa describing the Lifestream- which is a part of the Planet, Sephiroth describing the sound of the Planet and Cloud describes the sound of the Planet. There's so many ways we can interprets this parallel.

1. Has the Planet always been screaming but it doesn't do it with Tifa? Or was it really chill by Gongaga but gets so much worse to the point of screaming by the end of Rebirth?

2. Does the Planet wants to show to Tifa that it's winning but Sephiroth who thought it's on his side mistakes that as a rapturous sound and Cloud mistakes it as agony scream? Or does Sephiroth just want to gaslight Cloud but Cloud hears how it truly feels?

3. Does the scream sound different to different people so Sephiroth hears cry of joy while all Cloud hears is screams and Tifa hears no scream? Is the Planet more gentle to Tifa and more hostile to Cloud?

Idk if this is intentional from the devs but it's a fun parallel to think about.

I just realized how much these scenes mirror each other. There’s the obvious standing at a railing; night vs day; facing left vs right; bringing up Midgar as a way to start conversation. There’s more physical distance between Cloud and Tifa compared to Cloud and Aerith, and he doesn’t respond to Tifa’s attempt at casual conversation. He knows they’re about to have a difficult, personal convo, and he initiates it by voicing his doubts that Tifa is real. Aerith, on the other hand, catches Cloud off guard by bringing up Tifa. He’s expecting casual conversation, not a personal talk, and he’s reluctant to open up about what’s going on. Aerith ultimately doesn’t get much out of him.

I also think it’s neat that when Cloud is recounting (what he thought was) Tifa’s death, you can see the clock tower lit up behind him. The clock tower he climbs the next day with Aerith — the girl who does actually end up killed by Sephiroth later.

[tamamita]

As a result of disagreements with Barret's application of socialist theories in Avalache, Tifa forms a separate Maoist-faction of Avalanche, the Popular Socialist front of Midgar.

[silvergreenseraphim]

Angeal and Sephiroth (And Genesis?)—Dissidia Opera Omnia—Part One

Alright, so this chapter was a lot, and it opened with Weiss quoting “Loveless” for a reason, it seems.

“When the war of the beasts brings about the world’s end, the goddess descends from the sky! Wings of light and dark spread afar, she guides us to bliss…her gift everlasting!”

Weiss becomes our voice for Genesis, or his “brother,” in this chapter. When Seymour questions his quote, Weiss replies,

“It was a passage from a story our brother loved. He used to quote it for his best friend. That friend was Sephiroth, the hero and friend of the other “brother,” Angeal as well.”

This part was hard to translate into English, but Weiss essentially explains that Genesis used to quote Loveless for his close friend, Sephiroth, the hero, and Angeal was right there with them as the third friend in the trio.

Seymour is shocked and gasps, “Sephiroth and Angeal were best friends??”

Weiss replies, “It’s hard to believe of the now-evil “hero” that never reveals his heart. And yet, the exemplary First Class soldier that is a role model for everyone was his friend.”

I am on the fence about the translation of this part and may change it once my friend gets back to me, but for now, it seems like Weiss is pondering the friendship of Sephiroth and Angeal and how differently they turned out, because Seymour does make a comment like, “I suppose if you have dreams and honor, you can’t go wrong.”

But there is potentially more here that Weiss is saying about his own relationship to Sephiroth and Angeal—perhaps suggesting he is not their friend and doesn’t quite understand their past relationship himself. I will have to keep researching.

We cut to Sephiroth again, who is confused about his memory returning. He says he didn’t expect any memories to return from the Lifestream, but shakes his head and denial. He claims these memories Angeal brought back are unnecessary and that he most remove Angeal from the picture immediately. His motives are set.

Meanwhile, Zack and Angeal are talking about how Sephiroth changed. I translated this on Altocat’s blog and here is what they say:

Zack says,

“Angeal, I know you’re surprised…I can’t believe that Sephiroth changed like that…

Angeal replies,

“So, you were taken aback as well…”

Zack says,

“It was out of nowhere. We went to investigate Cloud and Tifa’s village…and I guess he discovered his origins. He killed everyone and burned down the village. He had always been the hero I strived to be…”

Zack and Angeal are both very crestfallen here, lamenting this knowledge. Angeal pulls himself together and says,

“I know…I’m disappointed too. Everything changed while I was gone, I guess.

Angeal further laments that he wasn’t there, and Zack reassures him that even though Angeal disappeared at the time and pushed everyone away, Zack would have stayed by his side and helped. Zack would have left Shinra, and he says he is sure Sephiroth felt the same way.

Angeal thanks his student but says that it was his choice and lonely path at the time—he had to carry the responsibility as a First Class soldier. Zack chastises him saying he shouldn’t think that way—after all, Zack is a First Class as well, and has enough experience. He could have helped Angeal. Angeal begins to reply, saying, “Zack…” but then they are interrupted by the others.

They say it’s time to make a decision about Sephiroth, and Cloud explains that the silver boi is planning to turn the world into an empty vessel that he may sail the cosmos with in order to find another world. An Advent Children reference, of course.

Rufus mentions that this goal is very similar to the desire of Jenova. He has to then explain what Jenova is to the other characters, as well as the Reunion theory.

This makes a lightbulb go off in Angeal’s head and he gasps, “So basically…Sephiroth is Jenova?”

He puts it together that Reunion implies that Jenova’s cells must be drawn back to their source, and since that source is currently Sephiroth, they must be the same.

However, the others simply say that Sephiroth/Jenova must be eliminated, and agree to hunt him down. Everyone nods and moves forward except Angeal, who lingers with hesitation.

In the next part, they are in the process of tracking Sephiroth, but the group notices Angeal’s troubled demeanor. They ask him if he’s okay and Kadaj says that he heard about Sephiroth being Angeal’s good friend. He says that it must be disheartening to see Sephiroth in his current state, since nothing is like it used to be.

Angeal notes Kadaj’s own tone of disappointment and Kadaj explains how Sephiroth used him as a puppet to find Jenova’s remains, which horrifies Kadaj because if Sephiroth and Jenova are the same, then his own “mother” used and betrayed him in such a way.

Angeal encourages Kadaj and gives him one of his classic pep talks, appealing to his usual “dreams and honor” code. Tifa notes that Zack often spoke the same way, prompting Angeal to recall teaching Zack all those things.

In response to Kadaj, he then says he was indeed surprised by hearing what Sephiroth did, but he says that,

“Sephiroth had his honor once too…and he has a tendency to hold onto things, so even if I am surprised, I can’t abandon him…”

The others say that they aren’t sure if Angeal’s words can reach Sephiroth, who was cruel enough to destroy Tifa and Cloud’s village. Tifa agrees as she recalls how she begged Sephiroth to explain why he did what he did, but she does say to Angeal that she believes he could have a better chance.

She kindly compliments him on how his “dreams and honor” philosophy had helped her as well. :,)

She encourages Angeal, saying that his words will surely be a beacon and that he should try to speak with Sephiroth again. Angeal hangs his head sorrowfully and agrees, saying,

“I don’t want to give up on him….so I’ll try as hard as I can…”

—

This is a good place to stop because the next chapters are where everything gets chaotic, but for now, we have some build-up for what Angeal wants to do, and for Weiss being a stand-in for Genesis later.

—

Some little notes:

The Zack and Angeal scenes were very sweet, as Zack wants to convince his old mentor to stop shouldering everything alone. Angeal’s absolute refusal to give up on Seph tugs at the heartstrings too, and I find it so sweet that Tifa actually encouraged him.

The “Sephiroth is Jenova” point is fascinating, but I believe we will soon find that Seph’s own will is blended into Jenova’s, as they are aligned, and this might be what reveals to Angeal that there may not be much hope for his old friend. :(

I am struggling with the Weiss and Seymour discussion, and this has been one of the parts that has slowed me down, because the context is hard to decipher, but I suspect that Weiss is comparing Sephiroth and Angeal to the figures in Loveless, which also becomes relevant later. I will update as soon as I can get an explanation from my Japanese friend. I am not skilled enough to decipher everything yet on my own, you see. 😅

But enjoy this for now, and I will be back with more soon! <3

[silalcarin]

Cloti's growth in touch and why their famous kiss may foreshadow their canon status in Part 3

In Remake, in Tifa's Resolution, Tifa approaches Cloud for comfort, and after a while, he reciprocates and hugs her.

Let it be known that, throughout the entirety of Remake, Tifa is literally the only one with whom Cloud shares a hug. Yes, Tifa had to initiate the physical contact, but it doesn't change the fact that Cloud never shares a hug with anyone else in the game.

However, in Rebirth, if Tifa is Cloud's date during the second Gold Saucer visit:

During the Loveless play, Cloud pulls Tifa towards him and touches her waist as he spins her.

During the Skywheel date, Cloud initiates a hug with Tifa, in both the low affinity and high affinity versions.

And, if it's the high affinity version of the date, after the hug, Cloud initiates a kiss with Tifa.

Let it be known that, during the Loveless play, between the 3 female party members, Tifa is literally the only one whom Cloud pulls towards him, and Tifa is literally the only whom Cloud touches as he spins her. (Video source)

Let it be known that, out of all the possible date options in the Skywheel, in all of the low affinity and high affinity versions of each and every single date, Tifa is literally the only one with whom Cloud initiates a hug, and, most significantly, Tifa is literally the only one with whom Cloud initiates a kiss. (Video source)

Now, remember that the entire Final Fantasy franchise is a JRPG. This is a franchise made in Japan, a country in the Eastern hemisphere. Back in 1997 (when the OG FFVII was released) and even today, in Eastern countries like Japan, public displays of affection are still taboo. So, if a kiss ever does occur in an anime or video game, especially if it's aimed for teenaged males, the kiss will only happen once (this is not always the case, but it is still the norm, even today), it will only happen between a canon couple, and it will be treated with the utmost significance.

Most notably, throughout the entire Final Fantasy franchise, the only pairings that have ever shared an on-screen kiss have been canon couples. (Video source)

As you can see in the provided video, all of those Final Fantasy pairings that have kissed on-screen before Cloti are canon couples:

Cecil/Rosa ─ FFIV (1991)

Squall/Rinoa ─ FFVIII (1999)

Tidus/Yuna ─ FFX (2001)

Rasler/Ashe ─ FFXII (2006)

Snow/Serah ─ FFXIII (2009)

Noctis/Lunafreya ─ FFXV (2016)

Terence/Dion & Clive/Jill ─ FFXVI (2023)

Now, by the end of Rebirth, Cloti is still not a canon couple. The Gold Saucer date in Rebirth is mandatory; it's just that who becomes Cloud's date depends on how well the player has treated the other party members. However, no matter who ends up being Cloud's date, there are still no canon couples at the end of the game.

But, remember, the Lifestream event (where Tifa pieces the Real Cloud's mind back together, and the Real Cloud's POV of the Nibelheim incident is shown) and the Highwind scene (where Cloti makes love under the Highwind) from the OG game have not been covered yet.

Most likely ─ particularly due to the importance of the Lifestream event (not just within the game, but based on what the game's creators have said in the FF7 10th Anniversary Ultimania and 25th Memorial Ultimania) ─ both scenes are being saved for Part 3.

For the time being, as of now, only theories can be made about what will happen to Cloti in Part 3 ─ such as how different the Lifestream event will be, now that a somewhat similar event has already happened with Tifa at the Gongaga reactor in Rebirth; if the high affinity version of the Highwind scene will be the only one used; if more nods to Trace of Two Pasts and the new 2000 Gil to Become a Hero will be referenced, etc.

But...

Because out of all the possible Skywheel dates, Tifa is literally the only one with whom Cloud shares a kiss. And in a video game franchise that's geared towards teenaged males like Final Fantasy, only canon couples have ever shared an on-screen kiss ─ as early as FFIV (1991) to as late as FFXVI (2023), the latter of which was released just 1 year before Rebirth. The fact that Cloti has already shared an on-screen kiss, after all those canon couples, may foreshadow them becoming a canon couple in Part 3.

This is emphasized by the fact that Kazushige Nojima, the head writer of the Remake trilogy, also wrote Trace of Two Pasts and 2000 Gil to Become a Hero (which, as of now, can only be found in the FF7 Rebirth World Preview, which hasn't had any official translations yet).

In TOTP, Cloti is established as having been childhood friends up until they were 7 and 8 (it's heavily implied that Tifa's father didn't approve of their relationship and, off-screen, he threatened Cloud to stay away from her, even before the Mt. Nibel bridge incident). Tifa didn't know how she felt about Cloud initially because he was "a beautiful, untouchable presence," but she realized she is in love with him after their promise; read the quote below. (Sadly, because Nojima used "suki", SENA translated "suki" to "like", since, admittedly, "suki" can be both "like" and "love". If only Nojima had used "daisuki"...) (Source)

"But once the promise was sealed, it seemed to her a thing of singular importance. She'd discovered that Cloud ─ the quiet neighbor who had always seemed as unreachable as the stars ─ was just a normal boy like any other. She'd come to understand that she did like him. And it was that special kind of "like" ─ the one that ties up your heart, making you yearn to be with that person for the rest of your days." (Source: Official English translation, "Traces of Tifa", page 25 ─ Amazon Kindle Edition)

In 2000 Gil, during Cloud's journey to Midgar to become a SOLDIER when he was 14, it's reaffirmed, from the OG game, that the only reason why Cloud wanted to be a SOLDIER in the first place is because of Tifa. (Source)

"This was something he wanted to do of his own free will. He would do whatever it took to become a SOLDIER. If there was a path, he would try to walk down it. If there was a door, he would try to open it. Because didn't he promise Tifa? Of his own free will, he had decided to become an exceptional man. To become a SOLDIER, a hero, and a special existence to Tifa."

Again, Nojima is the head writer of the Remake trilogy, and he also wrote TOTP and 2000 Gil. Therefore, what Nojima writes is 100% canon.

Why would Nojima go through all the trouble of writing that: (1) Cloti has a hug in Remake; (2) Cloti were childhood friends after all and Tifa fell in love with him in TOTP; (3) Cloud's desire to become a SOLDIER solely for Tifa is reiterated from the OG game in 2000 Gil; (4) the entirely new Gongaga reactor scene was added in Rebirth, where (a) Cloud becomes catatonic after Sephiroth gaslit him into attacking Tifa, stays in her room alone as she sleeps, and doesn't fully recover until she wakes up the next day, and (b) Tifa discovers the truth about what happened during the Mt. Nibel bridge incident; (5) Cloti nearly kiss after the events of #4 in Rebirth; and (6) Cloti has a kiss in Rebirth? (For #6, remember that only canon couples in Final Fantasy have ever shared an on-screen kiss up until Cloti in Rebirth.) Why?

It's actually really damn obvious why. Because, as I said earlier, it may foreshadow that Cloti will become a canon couple in Part 3.

NOTE 1: I keep saying "may foreshadow", because, officially, as of now, we don't know what's going to happen in Part 3. We have to wait until 2027 ─ 3 more years ─ for Part 3 to be released and find out what will happen.

NOTE 2: I know that some people may wonder why I'm not referring to Cloti as being already canon.

Let me explain.

I first played the OG FFVII when I was 11. I'll be honest, I had just hit puberty, so I didn't care about shipping at the time. However, even as an 11-year-old girl, as soon as I got to Sector 7 and Tifa was introduced as Cloud's childhood friend, I knew that Cloti was going to be canon by the end of the game. Even before Aerith was killed and the so-called "love triangle" was officially killed along with her, as soon as it was established in Sector 7 that Cloti had known each other since they were children, I knew that Cloti was going to be canon.

If anything, I think that FFVII made me start shipping in general. And I think Cloti was my very first ship. (I say "I think" because I genuinely don't remember how my 11-year-old brain worked.)

Also, I know that the various Ultimanias have (1) stated that Cloti realized they were in love with each other after the Lifestream event, and (2) shown screenshots of the high affinity version of the Highwind scene and not the low affinity version.

However, here's the problem, which I know has been complained about here on Tumblr and other sites: the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII screwed everything up, especially Advent Children.

AC establishes that Cloti lives together with Marlene and Denzel, but they're never actually stated to be a couple in the film, and their interactions, for most of it, are depressing AF. I remember how heartwrenching it was when Tifa lamented that they were "not a real family." This frustrated me as a teenager in the mid-2000s.

Now, remember that, in the mid-2000s, the Internet was nowhere near as ubiquitous as it is today. Any Final Fantasy-related Ultimanias were not available outside of Japan, not even fan translations. Therefore, I had no idea that the AC Reunion Files ─ where Tetsuya Nomura describes Tifa as being "a sweetheart", which is translated from the word "koibito" ─ existed at the time.

Then, in Dirge of Cerberus, in which Cloti briefly appears with Barret, they're only actually shown together once.

After AC and DOC felt like huge letdowns for me regarding Cloti, along with me entering high school around that same time, I lost interest in shipping in general for over a decade. In terms of Final Fantasy shipping, it was because, even though I saw that Cloti was a couple by the end of FFVII, Square jerked us around because they prevaricated over Cloti's canon status in the Compilation. Nowadays, I can't remember how my teenaged mind worked, so, at best, I think I can say that I never stopped shipping Cloti; I just didn't partake in exploring it or any of my other ships in general for over a decade.

TL;DR ─ If the Compilation didn't exist, I wouldn't have had any reason to doubt Cloti's canon status in the mid-2000s. I never doubted the beauty of Cloti itself; it's just that the Compilation made me feel disheartened over their canon status.

Now, I'm aware that Crisis Core ─ which reiterates Cloti's feelings for each other ─ was released 1 year after DOC. However, I'll admit, because I put FFVII out of my mind for over a decade, I didn't even know that CC existed until literally last year (yes, 2023). When I finally discovered it by stumbling upon its fan-translated cutscenes, I liked it. It's one of the only things I like in the Compilation.

But…

What truly revitalized my interest in Cloti again, after I got back into Final Fantasy recently, was hearing about a leak, pre-release, that Cloti shares a kiss in Rebirth. And then, post-release, I saw that Cloud initiating a kiss with Tifa in Rebirth blew up on social media and YouTube.

Then, my interest in the Remake trilogy (yes, 4 years after Remake came out) and its supplemental material like TOTP was piqued. I have the official English translation of TOTP through Amazon Kindle. I now own a PS4 and have played Remake, using the Japanese voices and English version subtitles. But, for the time being, I can't play Rebirth because I don't own a PS5. Everything regarding Rebirth, I've had to learn about either through spoilers on social media or YouTube.

Then, I saw that Crisis Core had an updated re-release in 2022 called Reunion, with the UI and character models resembling the Remake designs.

Now, remember that Crisis Core Reunion ─ with its usage of Remake's UI and character models ─ still shows what really happened at the Nibelheim incident (or, rather, how Zack thinks it happened). Also, while some of the dialogue changed, the Cloti scenes did not: Tifa still subtly asks Zack if Cloud is also a 1st Class SOLDIER; Tifa still sends emails to Zack about a blond SOLDIER/blond knight in shining armor; Cloud still tries to protect Tifa, even though he's just a grunt; Cloud is still ashamed that he didn't become a SOLDIER, and thinks that he didn't keep his promise to Tifa by failing to protect her; Zack still senses that something's going on between Cloti; Cloud still caresses the unconscious Tifa's cheek; and Cloud still lays Tifa down on the floor before he fights Sephiroth.

Now, also remember that the Lifestream event ─ which, again, among other things, shows the Real Cloud's POV of the Nibelheim incident ─ has not been covered yet.

Yep, all of the above got me excited for Cloti again, for the first time in a long time.

Also, as I said earlier, given that Nojima is consistent in his writing thus far in Remake, TOTP, 2000 Gil, and Rebirth ─ particularly for Cloti ─ I have hopes for Part 3, and that, afterwards, Square will finally state that Cloti is canon and then never ever touch them again.

(End my extremely long explanation for NOTE 2.)

(Also, end my long post.)