#Robert Jordan

[tentakrool]

it’s always “support women in STEM” and “women should be allowed to focus on a career” until you open up a hole into the Dark Dimension and release the embodiment of pure unadulterated evil, and then all of a sudden people have a problem—

[music-movies-mayhem]

Robert Jordan's characterization in the Wheel of Time in impeccable because the villains are either immortal genocidal cultists who literally sold their souls to satan for corn chips, or they're regular people who are just kinda dicks, and you will hate the dicks way more than the genocidal cultists.

[dndspellgifs]

look, I know I've talked about this essay (?) before but like,

If you ever needed a good demonstration of the quote "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic", have I got an exercise for you.

Somebody made a small article explaining the basics of atomic theory but it's written in Anglish. Anglish is basically a made-up version of English where they remove any elements (words, prefixes, etc) that were originally borrowed from romance languages like french and latin, as well as greek and other foreign loanwords, keeping only those of germanic origin.

What happens is an english which is for the most part intelligible, but since a lot everyday english, and especially the scientific vocabulary, has has heavy latin and greek influence, they have to make up new words from the existing germanic-english vocabulary. For me it kind of reads super viking-ey.

Anyway when you read this article on atomic theory, in Anglish called Uncleftish Beholding, you get this text which kind of reads like a fantasy novel. Like in my mind it feels like it recontextualizes advanced scientific concepts to explain it to a viking audience from ancient times.

Even though you're familiar with the scientific ideas, because it bypasses the normal language we use for these concepts, you get a chance to examine these ideas as if you were a visitor from another civilization - and guess what, it does feel like it's about magic. It has a mythical quality to it, like it feels like a book about magic written during viking times. For me this has the same vibe as reading deep magic lore from a Robert Jordan book.

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TOR WRAPPED 2023

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VAMPIRE

Masters of Death by Olivie Blake

Starling House by Alix E. Harrow

Mordew by Alex Pheby

HYPNOTIST

The Library of the Dead by T. L. Huchu

Daughter of Redwinter by Ed McDonald

Spring’s Arcana by Lilith Saintcrow

ALCHEMIST

The Bone Orchard by Sara A. Mueller

The Genesis of Misery by Neon Yang

The Echo Wife by Sarah Gailey

SHAPESHIFTER

Thornhedge by T. Kingfisher

The Warden by Daniel M. Ford

Wolfsong by TJ Klune

FANATIC

Mistborn by Brandon Sanderson

Bookshops & Bonedust by Travis Baldree

The Fragile Threads of Power by V. E. Schwab

TIME TRAVELER

Kinning by Nisi Shawl

She Who Became the Sun by Shelley Parker-Chan

The Invisible Life of Addie LaRue by V. E. Schwab

MASTERMIND

The Atlas Six by Olivie Blake

Red Team Blues by Cory Doctorow

Exadelic by Jon Evans

COLLECTOR

The Wolfe at the Door by Gene Wolfe

Cassiel’s Servant by Jacqueline Carey

The Great Hunt by Robert Jordan

[alverelover]

[asha-mage]

Because I am coping with current world events in a completely normal manner I've been thinking a lot about how one of the tensions that underpins the whole of Wheel of Time is Robert Jordan as 'person who likes history' vs Robert Jordan as 'person who had to live through the Cold War.'

Something that can be really hard for people born after the Cold War (like myself) to grasp is that for a long time history was the ultimate reassurance against existential dread. Civilizations could rise and fall, empires could crumble, disasters could wipe out a hell of a lot of people, but human beings as a species, where never in any real danger of dying out. New countries would eventually rise out of the ashes of old ones, societies would change to be unrecognizable but they would still be there, religions, cultures ideologies etc might all die out but the people would still be around. History provided the ultimate comfort: whatever happened in our brief finite lives human beings as an group would eventually be fine.

But that changed after World War 2 and the invention of a little something called the atomic bomb. Suddenly human beings had the potential to destroy not just ourselves but all life on earth if things went wrong enough. For the first time in history their was no real guarantee that human beings as a species would make it, and in fact their was a whole lot of reason to believe based on the patterns of history that eventually that power would get used and human kind would destroy itself. That was the Cold War- two nuclear states who really really wanted to start blasting each other to pieces but couldn't without risking the end of life as we know it.

The tension between these two realities- the assurance of history that life will go on and the reality that human beings could in theory actually end the fucking world, is built into the core of Wheel of Time. The first lines assure us: time is cyclical. It's all happened before. It's all going to happen again. Human being will live out the same stories in endless variation, the same patterns will always reemerge. And the world has already survived one apocalyptic event: the Breaking, and come out the other side not doing fantastically, but still around. The world has been reshaped forever and whole eras of progress have been undone, but humanity remains.

But at the same time doomsday weapons with the potential to wipe out the species are everywhere. The Choden Kal can crack the planet open like an egg. Balefire burns apart time itself. A plague of madness is waiting for any old schmo to wander into it's den and carry it back outside so it can infect and destroy everyone. Their are all kinds of different big glowing red 'destroy humanity' buttons laying around in WoT just begging to get pressed. And in a way the Dark One is the ultimate version of that because that button has already been pressed. The Bore has been opened. Left alone humanity is fucked and everyone knows it. It can be delayed and pushed back, but never truly stopped, except by the intervention of destiny- the intervention of the Dragon. That's the core conflict of the series. Rand is struggling to stop a missile that's already been launched, prevent an end everyone can see coming. It's not just 'I need to defeat the big bad evil overlord or everything will be bad forever', it's 'I need to stop the Dark One or that's the end of human beings as an idea'.

What's especially interesting is that Jordan isn't even framing the Wheel/Pattern as uniformly good, because it's history and history is messy and complicated and full of contradictions and no easy answers. The Wheel, the Pattern, is not some force for righteousness. It's a neutral fact of existence. Not what's best or what's ideal- those are subjective and grounded in human understanding of the world- but what's necessary and what's true. To want to break free from history, to break the Wheel, is to want to break free of being human. That's what the Forsaken all truly want (as I have talked about before): to leave behind their humanity, and their willing to sacrifice whatever it takes to do it. What that looks like and what motivates that desire is different for each of them but their united in that common goal, and they all either disregard the consequences of what it will mean or don't understand them.

The story of history is one of incredible suffering and amazing triumph: it's full of heartache and joy in equal measure. It's not fair or just or simple to understand, but it is a reflection of who we all are collectively. The fight to preserve the Wheel isn't a fight to preserve what is good or ideal, it is a fight to preserve what is human. Because as long as the story can keep going, we can have hope for tomorrow.

And Jordan promises right from the offing that their will always be a tomorrow. No beginnings. No endings. Just whatever comes next.

As we enter a period of history that is the most uncertain it's ever been in my lifetime, I can't help but I think of the incredible courage and strength it must have taken be staring down the barrel of nuclear armageddon and stubbornly insist that there would be a tomorrow. The man wrote eleven of the best books ever made exploring this exact struggle- about never giving in to despair or pain, never buying into the belief that things are hopeless, that humanity sucks and we're all doomed.

And remembering that...I don't know. It makes a little easier to breath and keep walking towards tomorrow myself.

[bitterkarella]

Midnight Pals: Magic Systems

[at Unicorn Fuck Club] Brandon Sanderson: hey robert what kind of magic rules do you have Sanderson: in my fantasy world, there's 18 laws of magic Sanderson: sorted into 23 categories and 65 sub-directories Robert Jordan: huh Jordan: well in my world, girls do girl magic and boys do boy magic

Sanderson: wait what? Jordan: girls do girl magic and boys do boy magic Sanderson: how does that work Jordan: saidin is stored in the balls

Jordan: why, how does your magic work Sanderson: ah well if you experience an emotion in my fantasy world Sanderson: then a sprite representing that emotion with physically appear and dance around Jordan: is that like Big Mouth then Sanderson: what Jordan: its a cartoon show Sanderson:

Sanderson: oh idk maybe Sanderson: i haven't seen it Sanderson: i only watch saturday's warrior on loop Jordan: look, i just think it makes sense Jordan: that the fundamental mystery powers of the universe would bisect neatly along binary gender lines JK Rowling: goddamnit!!! Rowling: why didn't i think of that

Rowling: ugh, inssstead i only have magic dividing people into uebermensssches and untermensssches Rowling: it could have been sssso much more!

Rowling: sssso in my world Rowling: the sssuperior wizard raccce issss sssimply born knowing magic Sanderson: right, right Rowling: then they have to go to sssschool Rowling: you know, to learn Rowling: Rowling: magic Rowling: alssso there are bad wizardsss who want to exterminate non-wizardssss Rowling: the bad wizardsss represssent queer people now Rowling: that's why we need to get them before they get us Rowling: anyway if you're an elected repressentative writing eliminationalisssst lawsss, feel free to reference my fictional booksss for jussstification Tolkien: Martin: Rowling: i don't get it, that alwaysss getsss a big hand on mumsnet Diane Duane: in my world, anyone can learn magic Rowling: SHUT UP DUANE Duane: from a book Rowling: SHUT UP Duane: you can get it at the library John Bellairs: oh yeah i think i've seen that book

[chumsterfire]

Rand al'Thor (I'm on book 1)

[thenotoriousscuttlecliff]

Was just hilarious how Robert Jordan kept creating all this family connections between major characters and then doing almost nothing with them.

-Moiraine is aunt to Elayne, Galad and Gawyn. Never interacts with any of them.

-Rand and Galad are half brothers. Barely a thing.

-Slayer is made of Rand and Galad's uncle and Lan's cousin. Never meets any of them.

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[random-jot]

Big fan of the unspoken agreement in the world of fantasy literature that there should be a magic redheaded guy in there

[knight--error]

I love how for Wheel of Time, Robert Jordan decided to go with arguably the least dramatic/tragic romance path for Egwene possible. Like. Here are your options:

Option 1. Rand, essentially her betrothed/intended from birth, her childhood friend—who also goes through The Horrors constantly as he at first resists and then accepts the mantle of the Dragon. Now imagine the Dragon in love with The Amyrlin Seat. The drama. The stakes. The tension. Opposing loyalties, opposing goals, political considerations, all wrapped up and rooted in their simple, intimate knowledge of each other from their youth. Wow.

Option 2. Galad, the chivalrous, lawful prince, who becomes the leader of the Whitecloaks, an organization directly opposed to the Aes Sedai and essentially at war with it. So now you have stolen moments via Gateway, longing glances across the horizon towards where the enemy is camped, even more political maneuvering and the threat of discovery hanging over Galad's head at every second. Will their love persevere? Also, imagine the drama at discovering the Lord Captain of the Whitecloaks is a Warder.

And option 3. Gawain, AKA That Guy Over There With Nothing Better To Do, AKA That Guy With One (1) Useful Skill Which Is Stabbery, AKA The Most Normal Man In The Cast At This Point.

And Egwene surveys her options and says, "Oh yeah, I'll take one order of That Guy Over There, please."

Amazing.

[alverelover]

[necarion]

I'm curious the extent to which Robert Jordan intended this (I think he probably did), but the in-universe narrative of "men and women cannot possibly understand each other" is deeply undermined by the fact that you, the reader, are extremely likely to identify as male or female, and are capable of understanding the motivations of both male and female characters.

The reason I think Jordan knew this was not only the effort made to have the characters motives be explicable when you're in their heads, but to have these communication difficulties go away the second the characters talked to each other and explained what was going on with them.

I think more than that, Jordan feels like he thought a lot of culture around masculine/feminine mystique was silly and harmful. Not only because it hinders good communication (Jordan does not agree that "not explaining stuff" is generally a good thing), but also because it leads to other harmful behaviors being swept up in the umbrella. Think of the number of times Elayne, Nynaeve, and the Aes Sedai are being awful to Mat, who treats it as "this is women being awful and inscrutible" when it's really them just being arrogant and awful. Or Mat being flippant and a jerk (in part as a defensive thing) being generalized to an "all men are like this" when it's really "Nynaeve and Mat get along like two cats in a sack that is on fire".

Does Jordan have some weird gender essentialism in his books? Definitely. But he also has far less than people credit to him, if you listen to the characters and not the subtext (or even text).

[iliiuan]

When people claim that Seanchan has peace and stability, I want to scream. Did you read the fucking books? Did you actually read them? They latch onto a single scene, written by Sanderson, from Darth Rand's pov, in one of the least stable places before the Seanchan arrive, and think that says anything real about their society. A society that has constant rebellion is not peaceful and stable. A society with secret police is not peaceful and stable. A society where the aristocracy is constantly playing a deadly game of thrones is not peaceful and stable.

The point of the Seanchan is not that they are peaceful and stable! Because they are NOT! The point of the Seanchan is that working with horrible people is sometimes necessary to prevent a greater evil from winning. The point of the Seanchan is to provide an alternative to dealing with channelers that is as disturbing as it is effective. The point of the Seanchan is that changing disturbing cultural practices is difficult and messy and requires more than some conversations.

Seanchan is also not worse than the Shadow. People say this unironically all the time and what crack are they smoking? Every. Single. Thing. that they hate Seanchan for, the Shadow does bigger, longer, and harder. Slavery? Check. Mind control? Yep. Colonization? Indeed. Mass murder? Oh yeah. Indoctrination? Very much so. I mean. What are people talking about? And why is it such a widespread opinion?