#People say they like complex villains

[fluffyotters]

People often Misunderstand Dabi's hatred for his dad. It's not because he's abusive

The thing a lot of people confuse is that while Dabi/Touya hated Endeavor, he didn't hate him because he was (physically) abusive to others! Touya does hate Endeavor not because dad was abusive but because he stopped paying attention to him at all and thought he was replaced! Touya hates him because of how much he loves and loved him. He wanted to be like him and to be admired by his dad forever and when he took that away clumsily trying to stop Touya from hurting himself by ignoring him that was even worse. Dabi himself would encourage people to hate on Endeavor for any reason because he wants to make his dad suffer but he does not care about abuse which is what a lot of Dabi apologia and people who fan him (inaccurately) has that he hates his abusive father because he was abuisve. DABI/TOUYA DOES NOT for that reason. Enji was a terrible parent in the past as is known with Shouto and treating his wife Rei and ignoring his non quirk kids Fuyumi and Natsuo, but he was not a terrible parent to Touya until he started ignoring him. In fact while one can assume his training methods can be difficult and Shouto hated them for sure (he was a young kid what the heck) and it's possible that they got harder, but Touya is the kid who will set himself ablaze of his own choice in training so that pain would be nothing to him.

The one person Dabi truly loves and hates is Enji. He wanted his love and attention and if he can't have that he will destroy his father as well as everything he loves including his family until there is nothing left to distract him from him. Using Enji's abuse was only ammo for him! He fully admits Endeavor abused his family because it means nothing to Dabi/Touya. He confesses to kiling more than 30 people (probably because he doesn't know the exact number and lost count after that because it probably is more than 30) because it means nothing to him. This was solely a film to bring down his father Endeavor's reputation at the worst possible time with a double whammy one-two punch of not only ruining his dad's reputation but everyone's view of heroes at the same time with Hawks killing Twice (edited to seem in cold blood). Being a hero is what his dad loved so much, more than him that Dabi made sure to completely destroy the trust people had in all heroes and to make the people dad saved turn against and hate him. See if Touya actually cared about the "abuse" he could have ended Endeavor's reputation and career at any moment. And secretly holding that over his head without him knowing was a trhill for a little while. But all he had to do was well, make such a video before and show a dna test and he could have made everyone very aware that he Endeavor's dead son was alive and that his dad was contrary to his saving the public, horrible to his family. And with it being multiple figures and the clear evidence of him and Shouto being damaged, his wife having been hospitalized, and his children having difficutly with him it would have had actual ramifications. He could have pulled Shouto out. He could have reconected with Natsuo. But he doesn't. Because he doesn't care about that or them except as ammo to hurt his dad. Had things gone differently he would have never said a thing. He worshipped the ground his dad walked on. And as he makes clear with Shouto he doesn't care about Natsuo almost dying when the villain he sent almost killed him despite them having had a past good relationship. All Dabi thought was imagine what Endeavor would think if he died. And Touya had wanted to be back in Shouto's place. Not anymore now, but how dare Shouto have everything he wanted and not appreciate it. Shouto wanted to save hsi brother, Touya wanted nothing more than to destroy him, dad, or both whether to kill Shouto and/or die with him to hurt his dad, or kill his dad directly. And nothing justifies what Dabi does. One could at least understand him wanting to kill his dad, even if that is extreme, Shouto did too and S1-3 it would have been understandable. However, killing lots of random people villains and civillains that have absolutely nothing to do with them is not at all proportional or understandable. And he has zero guilt or remorse and he burns them with fire, an extremely painful excruciating death. They probably don't live long witb how hot his fire is if they don't have a heat resistant skin or quirk (and such people actually gave him trouble fighting) but otherwise it's still a very horrible way to die. He views them all as mere practice kindling and trash to be taken care of and entertainment. People were nothing more than tools in his quest to hurt Endeavor. He loves these random people more than him being their hero? Then let them burn. He doesn't genuinely care whether hero society is corrupt or not. After all, he has no problem with killing solely to spite his dad. He doesn't care about the villains and downtrodden and they were only ever a vehicle to help him enact his eventual revenge in the meanwhile. And readily willing and acting to kill his own family. There was no reason to go after Natsuo and Rei, or Shouto but even allowing extreme leniency understanding that trying to kill his dad and the brother who replaced him is understandable, there is no reason to go after Natsuo and Fuyumi and Rei. Other than that is solely to hurt his dad which is not remotely justifiable.

He got Twice killed and while he says he didn't want Twice to die, if only because he would have helped with his revenge, he very readily had the video made which is extremely convenient. Stupidly reckless of Dabi to let Hawks that close if he actually wanted Twice to survive but on the other hand, he very well could have been saying what Hawks and the others expected to hear. Dabi somehow obtains Twice's blood for Toga later and it just raises even more questions of how and when did he get that? Did he ask for it and just store it for later? (Which weird if he wasn't actually planning this beforehand). I don't see how he would have got enough to be actually in a container for Toga to use that would still be viable if it hadn't been planned for. And he just sat on it until she was emotionally vulnerable and sad and goes here use this. This wasn't about helping her grieve this was getting her even more murder serious and to stop messing about with the heroes. But there is only a small amount of time where they knew that Toga could further copy powers before Twice died so Dabi having it on hand is extremely suspicious since Toga had no idea he had it. And after him helping her and seeming a friend (which he truthfully denies and says only is for his own benefit) h gives her a way to have Twice back and honor him.

Dabi is a very manipulative and cruel And the third most evil in the series after AFO and Overhaul just ahead of Muscular because Touya is smarter, didn't get caught repeatedly and while Muscular is cruel and sadistic and takes great delight in it, Touya is readily willing to hurt and kill his own family and the people he supposedly cares about for the sole singular focused purpose of punishing Endeavor. Dabi is living purely off the extreme rage and focused obsession to make his dad pay that even as his body wounds should have killed him he's still living just to make it happen. Even AFO backed off from even remotely trying to use him as a replacement from the sheer passionate singular depths of Dabi's rage made him unable to be controlled unlike Shigaraki generic molded hatred which passionate but focused on nothing but destroying making it easier for him to take over. And Dabi chose to be like this to deliberately murder and kill people and use them as mere tools. He chooses to continue it over and over living solely out of hatred and spite. This was not created by Endeavor, this is on Touya. People try to blame Enji for creating Dabi which is not true. Did he mess Touya up? Absolutely. Emotional neglect hurts. He would be obsessed with his dad in any form naturally and he would be guilty of that. But Enji is not responsible for Dabi murdering people and becoming a genuine villain. He is not responsbile for Touya going if he won't see me I'll destroy everything he loves. And not responsible for Touya trying to murder his family. He played a role by giving anf taking away love and not getting his clearly agitated unstable son help and absolutely could have done better and is seeking atonment but it is on Toyua all the deeds he had done. And before people say the abuse messed him up, most people do not become serial killers and mass murderers from abuse. (It can contribute but also many were never mistreated or abused at all that do). All it points is that tragedy happens to everyone and that then the personal choice and how to react comes in. Especially since this was emotional neglect not physical abuse. There is a big difference and yes emotional can hurt just as much it wouldn't have turned him into full blown evil like that if he hadn't chosen to be. There were so many ways he could have done a screw you dad look at me without going I'm going to burn you and everything you love to the ground and kill a lot of people along the way. Like I saw a hilarious post about Dabi instead of going okay murder, becoming an All Might Fan and buying all the All Might merchandise such that its everywhere and Endeavor absolutely could not have missed it. And that is the type of petty energy that unironically would have probably worked at getting his dad back to get him to look at him and interact again. (or he could have ignored it as Enji could be disciplined but it would definitely be drving him bonkers so win-win). But even from a young age Touya was obsessive about his dad that he tries to kill Shouto as a baby from the thought of being replaced.

I love Dabi as a villain but it is difficult to see so many blame Enji and abuse for Dabi's choices as if he had no agency in it. And while Dabi would definitely for the public blame Endeavor too, he wanted nothing more for than him to notice and once to always see him and now to make him the only thing Endeavor has by hurting him destroying everything he loves including ultimately himself. Because Dabi love/loved him. And could really care less if he or Enji hurt them as long as it's only him and his dad.

[poorly-drawn-mdzs]

I'm sorry I let down my guard.

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[sciderman]

Yk, I hate that adaptations keep making Peter a high schooler, and not just because it means he never evolves, but because the adaptations now also include wider Marvel, whitch usually (thanks to the MCU) is at the modern day stage with legacy characters and new age teen heroes, meaning that Peter is taking up Miles' spot and you can really tell when they put him next to someone like Kamala Khan or Sam Alexander who are Miles' pals. Tho Peter taking Miles' stuff is just a modern issue overall, just look at MCU whitch just stole and re-skinned Miles' personality, characters, story-beats, even the costume to an extent and then made it worse.

agree 👏

[writeouswriter]

People need to start understanding the difference between actually harmful or "bad rep" vs just rough around the edges but still complex and nuanced rep that doesn't quite line up with your own personal experiences or the over-sanitized ideal of what you think "good rep" should be

[cryptidlark]

why are there so many people on here who go “I love villains! as long they have no depth, no sympathetic traits, no ethical nuance whatsoever, no tragic or otherwise complex backstory to outline their motives, and the narrative/author’s voice declares them to have no hope of redemption and kills them off for their sins against humanity”

[enixamyram]

You know one of the weirdest things about the Toxic side of fandoms I've seen? It's the way they try to treat all shows like they're supposed to be setting examples for the audience.

Take Hazbin Hotel for example. I have seen so many people pulling up a single bad trait that Chaggie or Huskerdust may or may not have and use that as the sole reason why they shouldn't be together at all. Which is so dumb but also bizarre because real life couples have their own good and bad qualities and having one possibly negative aspect about your relationship is more often not a reason you should immediately break up.

But sometimes fans and trolls act like these characters need to be in Disney-style-picture-perfect romance otherwise they're unhealthy and shouldn't be together. Like they seem to be under this really strange idea that all entertainment should be educational for the audience and if they're not setting a good example then it's bad TV.

It's so weird.

[thatvampireenthusiast]

the proclamation plotline is great bc you get to slowly see jaania descend further and further into what one might argue are some Very Bad Decisions and perhaps also Madness

[empty-blog-for-lurking]

If youre ok w sharing then i would love to hear your thoughts on lotor........ Hes such a weird guy. Dissecting him like a frog

If i get hate for this, i am blaming you/j but in all honesty i apologize if this kinda messy, as i have said it has beem awhile since i saw any of the episodes about him. Most of it is my personal interpretation and opinions of his character-

First of all i personally hate both "L0tor is evil rapist imperialist who did not have a single redeemable quality" and "L0tor is uwu poor baby who did nothing wrong", because yeah he had good intentions and he seemed to genuinely love Alura and care for Alteans but also he very much did do a lot of things Wrong. I am pretty sure a lot of his actions fall into category of Very Wrong

Lot0r to me is an absolute control freak, he has to be 10 steps ahead of everyone, he needs to be control of the situation no matter what. Whether it be through a silver tongue or by his blade (see N@rti's death, him vs White Lion). This is as much as a ruthless strategy as it is a trauma response. Being raised under Z@rkon, a father who only saw him as inferior half-bred, he had to learn survivor tactics. He will do anything to survive whether it be beg, lie, manipulate, and kill. He is a survivor of some genuinely godawful abuse he suffered for 10,000 years, combined with racism he suffered for being half altean

However this need to be in control extends to his allies and people he cares about. I am sure Lotor may have loved Alura, it doesnt change the fact that he very much abused her trust. Their entire relationship was based on a lie. He knew Alteans were still alive and not only did he not tell Alura about it he leaned into the "last survivors of Altea" for their relationship, which is why it was doomed since the beginning. And if it had not been this, then it would have been something else. Cause lying and manipulation are very much core of his character, that is how we are introduced to him

Like i see people going "Oh Lot0r could have been good if he had therapy and a hug", and i am not really not sure about it, cause like would he? Would he choose to be vulnerable and actually let his feelings out and be truthful in a an unbiased reliable way that will neither serve him in any way nor make him look better nor is a part of some machivilian scheme he cooked up because he doesnt trust the therapist he is paying? No

And thing is he does desire connection. He looks for connection in people who are similar to him. Half galran, altean survivors, Alura these are the people who he chose to get close to. He looks for similarities, people he can relate to, people who he sees as like him, people who he thinks can give him a sense of belonging. He is deeply lonely. However his desperation for control, absolute mistrust in anyone and everyone, and his inability to be actually honest dooms any relationship he'll ever have

Also this is probably just me, but for someone who is this morally complex character he has tendency to see things in black and white? Like it is His dad and empire= bad, alteans=good. He idolizes Altea to the point of seeing it as an Utopia, and this ideal was more important to him than any Alteans who are alive and with him. I also cant remember him ever caring about someone outside of the Dichotomy. Like at most i remember is after he became the emperor Lance pointing out how other planets need to be freed and he just brushed it off

Overall he gives me the "smart people dont always make good decisions, but they are good at justifying their bad ones" vibes. We dont know exactly why he decided to use alteans as batteries but i am choosing to go with my interpretation- "Lottor saw something fucked up in that future showing space whale thingy, decided the only way to solve was altean batteries except in true self fulfilling prophecy greek tragedy way it only made things worse and started a series of event that will cause the thing he saw causing real trouble a few years after his death.

Another thing! I think it should have been him being the focus of Evil Altean episode instead of A//ura. I hate that episode and everything it stands for but like if there Had to be an evil alteans episode then it should be around someone who is you know? Obsessed with Altean culture? Is big on control and manipulation? Is more geared towards big picture and "greater good" over individual? Is worried about turning into just like his galran father and so desperately wants to connect to his idealized version of his altean mother? Yeah

[massiveladycat]

me watching people justify villains/antagonists because they're misunderstood (they massacred innocent people)

[glindyupland]

I just think it’s silly that so many people complain about Villain Amaya as “wasted potential” and that “we were robbed” like-

My pals, post canon fan fiction is right there. The desire to free her husband is right there. Either by touching an evil book while being too eager to remember the obsidian oil, or being possessed by contact (ie what she believes is true loves kiss) when trying to reason with him in the dungeon.

We don’t need a rewrite, we can have a continuation. Both can be true. Amaya is a complex character, she can handle it.

[flintsilvers]

sorry to still be thinking about it but its amazing the amount of people who are willing to overlook one of the core elements of konoha's history (and by extension of naruto as a whole) which is the marginalisation and straight up segregation of the uchiha clan just because the character who kickstarted all of it has a cool design and is really strong. tobirama hated the uchiha to the point where his own brother while on his DEATHBED had to make him promise not to hurt them so he made up the police force and assigned it to the uchiha so they could be effectively unable to do literally any other job while also making sure everyone else in konoha hated them because they felt constantly under watch by the red eyed freaks. tobirama's excuse was that he didnt actually hate the uchiha, just madara, who was coincidentally their most powerful member, so the uchiha exiled him bc they believed tobirama. and what did that accomplish? that when madara died nobody claimed his body and tobirama took it to STUDY it and then buried him in an unmarked grave (which ironically worked in madara's favor later). tobirama "i dont hate the uchiha one of my students was an uchiha" senju just so happened to also "raise" one of the biggest uchiha haters in konoha history, danzo, who not only furthered their marginalisation and demonization but also orchestrated their whole entire MASSACRE just so he could steal their eyes.

but sure the two things are completely unrelated and tobirama and danzo are very different and nothing matters

[rewritingcanon]

thinking about how delphi must have really hated albus to go through all the effort to do that to him. you could tell me she hated him by association with harry, and i think that’s how it started off. but i think she began to actually hate albus and his feelings he would confide to her about his dad because at least he had a dad. it probs filled her with a twisted sense of glee to see the man who murdered her father (more of an idol, but whatev) struggle, but also envy that at least he tried and was actually present in albus’ life.

[henrysglock]

Every day I'm driven more insane by The First Shadow because it confirms so much just by existing, let alone the actual content of the show.

The team really went "No, no. You don't have all the information about Henry yet. We intentionally kept that from you. Also, all the adult characters? Yeah. They knew him. They all fucking knew him, which is why we couldn't have any of them be present in ST4. Kept that one from you too."

Just by making the play they confirm that there's at least another hour's worth of content at least tangentially related to Henry's story. We're missing so much about him if we just go off what we see in ST4.

Just by the synopsis, they tell us that Henry is already running from something, a Shadow that predates Hawkins and the Creel house. They also confirm that Henry might even have had friends. That some of those friends may have been the main adult crew. There are people who ought to remember him.

Like be serious. Be so so incredibly serious. Mindblowing.

[thirddoctor]

sometimes when I see people talk about the Chibnall era it truly feels like we watched completely different shows. I think there's genuinely stuff to praise but some of things people are seeing in there just baffle me

[beliscary]

there's a tower in belisaere called dolorous bastion

[im-not-buying-it-ether]

More Shazamily/Marvel Family headcanons

Billy has a deep seated hatred for the Indiana Jones movies, there is no force on earth that can get him to watch any of the movies the whole way through

Normal magic rules don’t really apply to them in practice, they break and bend the rules a lot without realizing it. It’s one of the many perks of being champions and guardians of eternity, magic just goes with them and what they want to do

Have used spells from fantasy media’s to see if they work in real life; They do work but only for them, so each member of the Shazamily has a trump card in the form of random spells from random kids tv shows but they all use wands when they remember to just incase a spell backfires

Darla copied Star vs the forces of evil’s spells, no Fawcett villain likes admitting that they got beat by a Narwal Blast or a Warnicorn Stampede. Uses her wide array of princess and fairy wands she already has

Eugene, as seen in the first Shazam! movie, copy’s mortal combat moves and phrases. Doesn’t use a wand or a stand in for one much but uses a classic magicians wand from a magic kit he got

Billy binge watched every episode of Ben 10 and made a spread sheet of magical attacks shown in the show with Freddy to copy. Both use “Scribo in incendia” to multitask with homework and “Somus” to fall right asleep after patrol. Freddy uses his foam Wonder Woman sword and Billy just has a stick he picked up one day when he was 9 and hasn’t let go of since

Mary has copied some phrases from Sabrina the Teenage witch with varying levels of success, in part due to her not having full confidence in every attempt she makes. Bought one of those fancy wands with a gemstone at the end of them to cast spells

Pedro took a page out of Harry Potter and started using Latin to come up with his own spells. Uses whatever he has on hand as a wand, be it a pencil or the spork he was eating his lunch with

Billy has an older portable movie player he got as a hand me down gift from a foster sibling and a CD booklet with some kids movies in it that he’s held onto, its how he passed his rare instances of downtime when he was still homeless. Liked borrowing movies from local libraries to watch on it, some of the discs he actually owns are Matilda, the Night at the Museum trilogy, the Iron Giant, Tangled, Atlantis: the Lost Empire, and a CD copy of the second season of The Worlds Greatest Animal Detective; Tawky Tawny.

Freddy spends the first few years of his hero career pretending to be able bodied, constantly using his flight as a mobility aid, but decides later on to utilize a Wizards staff formed in a way to double as a crutch for him.

Followed by pidgins relentlessly. If a pidgin can go there they follow the Marvels everywhere. They’re chill, don’t steal their food or land on them, but they follow them everywhere. They all collectively blame Hermes influence as a patron god of messengers since pidgins are messenger birds (and yes it is the fault of his divine influence on them)

Billy got permission from the Wizard and other greek goddesses to have separate blessings for his sisters (Agility of Selene, Strength of Hippolyta, Stamina of Artemis, Flight of Zephyrus, Invulnerability of Aurora, and the Wisdom of Minerva) for the sole reason of keeping the influence and voices of Billy’s patrons out of their heads and away from them. (Because there’s no way in any form of hell he’s cursing Mary or Darla with Zeus to be in their heads)

They can talk to animals with the omnilinguistics the Wisdom of Solomon gives them, if anyone on the mortal plane can understand the language so can they. This has led to people seeing Captain Marvel coo back and forth with pidgins like they’re having a conversation (they’re talking about favorite snacks) and the one time he interrogated a rat through small squeaks to know which way a group of smugglers went.

Billy is an awesome gift giver, every year when the justice league has their annual white elephant on Dec 20th people pray they get their names drawn by him. He got Wally a bunch of shoes that were enchanted to not wear down from his speeding (dress shoes, running shoes, slippers, flip flops, the works), did some dimension hopping and time traveling to get a box full of Kryptonian books for Clark (including a collection of folklore with English translations so he can read a bedtime story to Jon), and a crud ton of sweets from the Funlands for J’onzz (including a giant Choco’s cookie big enough to sleep on.)

Freddy’s YouTube channel has a lot of videos of the Shazamily testing their powers based on comments, it has 2.3 million followers and the ad revenue they all rake in goes to helping out with the expenses at home and buying a lot of games at a 50/50 split

They are literally the only group of child vigilantes that are home in time for curfew/bed consistently, they’re more daytime heroes. The only exception being Billy when he has to go off world or to another dimension for League/Champion business but he always tells the Vasquez’s about them so they can call him in sick from school

Billy worked out an agreement with Harley Quinn so that him and his siblings could have semi-regular therapy appointments (hero/villain work permitting), she works her degree every other Tuesday and in return she gets Superman style flights whenever she wants and access to magical plant stuff for Ivy. Victor and Rosa worried about their kids mental health with all the responsibility and horrors of hero life but had no idea how to start getting them professional support for it so they’re glad Billy was able to find someone already in that life who could help and isn’t likely to endanger their identities.