#Lord of the rings lore

[rey-jake-therapist]

Actually, Sauron (in his Annatar form) and Galadriel did meet in the books. They also lived in the same place (Ost-in-Edhil, capital of Eregion) for almost 300 years. In RoP, Galadriel lives in Lindon, but in the books she and Celeborn were guests of Celebrimbor in Eregion for a very long time. In the books, she doesn’t trust Annatar/Sauron and sees right through his disguise, even thought he is very charming and flattering towards her and Celeborn, for them to leave the smiths alone while they work on the rings of power project. Sauron is very seductive in the books, too. You see, Celebrimbor was also in love with Galadriel, and even wanted to marry her (but she chose flavorless Celeborn instead). Pretty much everyone was in love with Galadriel in the lore, so it’s not so insane to throw Sauron himself into the midst, nevermind if the lore purists hate it or if Tolkien didn’t outright write it.

I think the appeal of Galadriel x Sauron first came to be because of the angst and “forbidden fruit” trope; she was so petty towards Annatar, and her marriage to Celeborn so dull and passionless, older fans believed Sauron to be a more interesting pair for her (not to mention they are actual foils to each other, lore wise). Tolkien also created their mind connection; Galadriel could see into Sauron’s mind and perceive his plans, and he would have been able to look into her mind as well, had she not block him. But he never stopped trying to get into her mind, until the One Ring was destroyed. Her taking Nenya with her back to Valinor (even though it has lost it’s power) at the end, is also strange; as well as Celeborn staying in Middle-earth. All of this, is book canon. And fans can interpret it however they want. There is tragic romantic potential there for sure, and that’s the direction the showrunners seem to be taking, even if they leave it ambiguous.

Bless you book readers for all the hindsight you bring in your asks and posts ! 🙏��💜

Regarding Nenya, wasn't it said in the books that Sauron/Annatar wasn't around when Nenya and the other rings made for the Elves were built? That they were built without his influence?

I like your thoughts, very much, but another reading could be that Galadriel could have brought Nenya with her because of all the good things she did with it.

Of course, if we want to consider ROP as "canon", it recontextualizes this detail and Galadriel's longing for the sea in a very interesting way....

[residenteccentric]

War in the North is a bit of an oddity, coming one console too late for its style, in a setting that only just got permission to use its full material, and from a studio about to be merged into another. Even as a Tolkien mega-fan and a kid who would claim Champions of Norrath (also by the same studio) was my favorite game just a few years prior, I didn't like it. But revisiting it, it is an amazingly interesting marriage between the movie license and the book license we haven't seen since! With fan favorite characters and book moments brought to life and canonized in the cinematic universe. Not to mention with a PS2-era of ARPG design not fully seen since.

In this retrospective I go over the developer, Snowblind Studios, as well as do a full story recap of the game, gameplay review, and point out all of the neat lore characters and details they brought to the cinematic universe.

[sweetmapple]

drew this so fast, Mohg-posting is no longer illegal. Long live Mohgwyn and his fruitiest surgeon

[mac-tirs]

the usage of different types of english in elden ring

most human/tarnished NPCs we meet, like rogier, ansbach, and nepheli, use late modern english:

"a sorcerer, as you might have guessed. i'm looking for a little something, here in the castle. when i'm not hotfooting it from the troops, that is." - rogier, first meeting "general radahn. a pleasure to see you, after all this time. but those remains do not belong to you." - ansbach, upon summon for PCR

but older demigods like messmer, ranni, and morgott use early modern english:

"thou'rt tarnished, it seemeth. mother, wouldst thou truly lordship sanction, in one so bereft of light? yet… my purpose standeth unchanged." - messmer, pre-battle cutscene "thou needst not indulge them unduly, but they too wish to appraise thy worth. it hath been a passing long time since a newcomer entered my service, after all." - ranni, after agreeing to serve her

then there are the younger demigods, like miquella, malenia, and potentially melina, who use a later variant of modern english, similar to the tarnished NPCs we speak to:

"if we honour our part of the vow, promise me you'll be my consort. i'll make the world a gentler place." - miquella, post-PCR cutscene "the scarlet bloom flowers once more. you will witness true horror. now, rot!" - malenia, phase 2 transition cutscene

finally, the hornsent NPCs like the hornsent, hornsent grandam, and the hornsent spirits such as the one outside the whipping hut, who use late middle english similar to the english found in shakespeare's sonnets:

"fie, another? ... then, as that woman would surely say, we are in our purposes well aligned. but understand. your kind are not forgiven. the erdtree is my people's enemy. by marika long betray'd, set aflame." - hornsent, first meeting "all your resentment lingers yet... the raw stuff from which i shall surely forge a curse. upon the dastard messmer's head. upon marika's children each and all." - scorched ruins hornsent spirit

i find it interesting how different the usage of english is in the game, and i feel that it can be a hint on how to properly date an individual's occupation in the lands between/land of shadow. the hornsent, being a people much older than many in the lands between, use the most archaic version of english, while the tarnished and younger demigods use a form of english more closely related to our own in the current period. older demigods (and marika herself, as heard from melina's recounts of marika's spoken echoes) use a form of english more closely related to the period of transition from middle english to early modern english.

additionally, another interesting thing to me: mohg is almost certainly nearly the same age as morgott (since they're referred to as twins), yet he speaks a little differently compared to morgott:

"tarnished, thou'rt but a fool." - morgott, post-battle dialogue "dearest miquella. you must abide alone a while." - mohg, pre-battle cutscene

this makes me wonder if it's possible that, assuming that miquella's verbiage is indicative of his younger age in comparison to the older demigods (aka the demigods born before the marika/radagon union), miquella's charm altered mohg's perception enough to also alter his manner of speaking and carrying himself in some way. if his pursuit of finery (dressing in embroidered robes and handling himself with poise, juxtaposing his bestial growls and strength) was mainly done in an effort to fit into miquella's ideal of a consort. of course, mohg could just be as vain as he seems to be all on his own accord, but i find that it's interesting to entertain the idea that even his current state of being was due to miquella's charm.

i'd love to hear what others think about this. i'm not very learned when it comes to english (it's not really my first language), but i find this all very cool to think about.

[avatarobi]

When Thorin gave Bilbo the Mithril chainmail shirt, he said it was made for an Elven prince.

The only Elven prince that was born in any of the 4 Elven realms since the founding of Erebor is Legolas.

Frodo is wearing Legolas's baby clothes in LOTR.

[mfelewzi]

From the Facebook page: Tolkien's Amazing Middle Earth: The Hobbit, Lord of the Rings, Silmarillion

ÉOWYN, LADY OF THE SHIELD-ARM

"Not by the hand of man was the Lord of the Nazgul doomed to fall, and in that doom placed his trust. But he was felled by a woman and with the aid of a halfling, and I heard the fading of his last cry borne away by the wind."

- Gandalf (The War of the Ring, HoME vol. 8 )

Art by Dmitry Sivakov

Link: https://www.facebook.com/share/p/Wk9vaC9RYWDNoZHh/

[whorefindel]

this has me in tears yall 😭

[butadailovehim]

sometimes i imagine young elrond (relatively young, you know for elves) grieving the loss of his brother, trying to respect his decision to die a mortal death, really respecting his decision, but still feeling sour about it from time to time when everything becomes too much, sorta thinking you left me alone, why did you leave me alone and celebrian, galadriel, everybody around him is saying something along the lines everything happens for a reason and sure, elros becoming the first great king of numenor should be enough reason and elrond understands that? but it still makes his heart ache, but he lives on, he keeps an eye on his brother's line, protects the middle earth where it counts, and that's how it goes for a couple hundred years

and then there comes a human woman with a little boy, and sure there were many before. he kept an eye on his brother's descendants before, but this one is so small and his little feet take him all around rivendell where he somehow always manages to find trouble, and his eyes are the shade achingly similar to his brothers, and sometimes he calls him ada because he learned it from his other kids

and one day he's reading little estel a story (maybe a legend of an old king who rose to greatness before he faded away) and he looks at the child snoring away on his chest, a child that wouldnt be here had elros made a different choice

and he thinks. oh. that was the reason.

[alina-is-hollowing]

this got ship of theseus'd so badly but idc this is how i feel on sote lorewise

note: its not like im disregarding the lore fromsoft put in completely. the story is still amazing and I recognize and understand the direction they want the characters to go down. It's just that I can't help but hold onto a scenario where all this didn't happened and they got to live as normally and happily as possible like pre-shattering ya know

[mistleaneous-chaos]

How Shadow Of The Erdtree Portrays Hate, and The Tragedy of trying to Escape

Elden Ring Spoilers(Hey! Been a while since i did this)

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I’ve gotten further into the DLC and this might just be one of the best stories of how Hatred is just a cycle that repeats which consumes innocent people in its wake.

This DLC has done so much to make us understand why Marika did the things she did. She lived in a peaceful village, only for people she loved and cared about to be taken and put into jars. And why is that? Because their bodies meld well with others, something she can’t control since she was just born with it.

And so she becomes the new God of the Lands Between, imposing her new order onto others, and having her own son be the one to lead it. But when the fire fades and the ash settles, the one who suffers of the two of them is Messmer. She leaves him in the Shadow Realm because he doesn’t fit in her new order, representing so much of what is considered “Sinful”. And he is left alone, because of something he can’t control since he was born with it.

And then, as years pass and she makes a family again, she has twins! She can finally begin to rebuild, to move on from the hatred she felt!… except, she can’t. Because of the fact that her children have horns, just as her oppressors did. And so do multiple families in the Lands Between, with this seemingly “cursed” blood spreading, she has a choice to make.

Let go of the hate, try to accept her sons and the Omens.

Or hold onto it, persecute them, cut off their horns, and drop them into the sewers, out of sight out of mind.

We know what she picked.

And it’s this hatred that sparka another ambition just like hers. Mohg.

Imagine you’re Mohg. You have no family save for your brother. You live in the sewers while only ever being able to watch the outside world with happy familes and children with parents who love them. But all the while, what do you have? Nothing. All because of something you can’t control because you were born with it.

And so you decide to build your own order. Away from it all. Your brother wants no part, he clings to the hope of being accepted by that damn tree. But it’s fine.

You take some of the other Omens with you, and get to work. You even have help from an Outer God, so higher powers must want you to succeed! Others shave their horns but not you, no you proudly grow them out, even if it impedes your vision, because they are a part of you.

You take in all kinds, Humans, Omens, even Albinaurics, who had no home before. You give your fellow Omens real clothes, regal clothes. They’ve never had clothes after all, so don’t they deserve the best? You build and you build and eventually you have a beautiful part of the Underground to yourselves, you did it, you’ve won!

Mohg could have broken from the cycle, stayed in Mohgwyn, as he did even when chaos reigned above. People were strong under him, and had a home even if they were shunned in other places.

But that choice was taken from him.

Miquella used him to accomplish his own goal of godhood, robbing him of his own agency. Just like his brothers, Mohg was used by his family, but unlike the others, he wasn’t even aware of it. No matter how far he ran, no matter how much he tried to cut himself off from it. The hatred of his mother reached him, in the form of someone else using him to break away from the consequences of it.

Now I’m not saying Mohg was perfect. His group was no less sadistic than some of the others in the lands between.

But he was robbed of a dream, and told it was never his to have.

[peasant-player]

Everyone in the Tolkien fandom who spent hours to makes ellaborated charts, name descriptions, little drawings and every other thing to help get to know the characters better.

And get like 3 views

Know that I love you and hope your life is filled with kindness.

[gobbogoo]

"It's Been A While, Morgott"

To me, this moment of tenderness all but confirms that Godfrey must have visited his Omen children in their sewer prison.

Consider everything we know about Godfrey. He actively venerated the Crucible and its primal manifestations. His knights wore helms decorated with horns and utilized its animalistic magic:

Even after the Crucible fell from favour, these knights were tolerated right up until Godfrey was banished. Therefore Godfrey must have been preserving them even despite Marika's decrees. This makes sense, because Godfrey was born in the ancient era when the Crucible's wild power was considered a blessing, not a curse:

"A vestige of the crucible of primordial life. Born partially of devolution, it was considered a signifier of the divine in ancient times, but is now increasingly disdained as an impurity as civilization has advanced."

To Godfrey, his Omen sons would not have been something to revile. This is supported by the fact that their horns weren't excised. I doubt it was Marika's choice, since she had turned against the Crucible by then. It MUST have been at Godfrey's behest. Likewise, who else could have commissioned THIS?

A "memorial fetish fashioned in secret" that CLEARLY depicts Morgott. Someone CARED about this secret Omen infant. Enough to memorialize their their existence at the risk of the entire Golden Order. It literally ONLY could have been Godfrey.

Lastly, there's the circumstances of Godfrey's banishment. Most people say he was simply cast aside after he ran out of enemies to fight, but this CAN'T be all there was to it, because Raya Lucaria still existed. A FAR better explanation is that Godfrey began to show signs of disobedience. Godfrey was a man of instinct and emotion. Could such a man have sat idle while his children were imprisoned and his comrades reviled by the very order HE helped build?

No. And so Godfrey began to visit his Omen children in secret, where he told them stories of their lineage and their origins. In Morgott his stories instilled a Lord's sense of duty for the Erdtree and everything it could be.

In Mohg, his stories instilled an Omen's sense of pride for the Crucible, and everything it once was.

Until Marika learned of her husband's treachery, and the Omen Twins never saw their father again.

EDITED IN EXTRA OBSERVATION:

Someone pointed out that Serosh exists to channel Godfrey's emotions, and what's the first thing we hear/see when we approach Godfrey holding his son? Serosh roaring in anger. Beneath that kingly countenance, Godfrey is a lot more distraught than he's capable of showing.

[zorangezest]

ok but what if they were both kids and best friends and i was methodically shredding the canon storyline into confetti

and then they both became war criminals the end

[eloquentsisyphianturmoil]

Gandalf said ‘do not offer me that’, Galadriel said ‘I would be a queen, great and terrible,’ but Elrond said ‘get that the fuck away from me’ and this is nonsensical.

The other keepers of the elven rings were most challenged by the One, why not Elrond? Is his struggle merely hidden? Is it his Maia blood? Is it simply his mixed blood? Is that why Aragorn withstood, too?

Canonically the race of men are most easily corrupted, yet Elrond half-elven, who is almost 40% man, doesn’t notably bat an eyelash. Why?

[mac-tirs]

the not-insignificant differences between the omen twins

so, i saw this picture posted by @amanaci which inspired me to write this rather lengthy piece on the contrasts between morgott and mohg. i decided that, instead of dumping this whole think-piece on their post, i'd make my own separate post and ramble here.

this difference in their height really tracks for how their fighting styles and personalities are like, i feel. i always found it peculiar how different they are despite being twins; i feel like there's a rather stark resemblance between miquella and malenia in their soft-faced features, pale skin, and long flowing hair, and a close resemblance between the carian siblings with their red hair, but morgott and mohg are rather different from each other, only bearing similarities due to their omen nature. i looked a little bit into that and found that there's pretty good reasons behind why.

firstly, morgott is severely malnourished and unhealthy in comparison to mohg. you can see it in his body and how his skin sags, how his ribs and bones show, and how dry it looks. below is a comparison between his hands and mohg's hands.

morgott's hands are dry, almost rubbed red and raw around the knuckles and fingers. it reminds me a little of psoriasis, or some kind of skin discolouration caused by his poor health. it's likely he isn't eating well, or at the very least, he isn't eating as well as mohg. his twin, on the other hand (ha!), has shiny, veiny skin with a healthy colour and gleam to them. it's like he wants to call to attention how well moisturised he is (which, in this case, compared to morgott, he is).

above is a comparison between the twins' horns. the difference is extremely evident to me; morgott's horns are dry, almost seeming brittle, like sun-dried bone that hasn't seen rain or moisture in years. it reminds me of the horns of a very neglected ram, almost, but despite that, the horn growths seem more controlled, less like the wild growths all over the royal omens of the shunning grounds and more controlled as a sort of jutting crown from mainly one side of his head. meanwhile, mohg's horns are shiny, curling wildly to the point of injury, taking his eye in its path of growth. they grew wildly enough to replace his hair altogether, if he ever had any, and give him an even more imposing silhouette with a literal crown of horns (and a beard to boot). beyond this, his horns look healthy, with clearly defined rings to each growth that shine under the light, much like the rest of him. he's oiled leather to morgott's dry hide.

another somewhat interesting detail of morgott is his tail. i know a lot of people see it as soft, and it certainly looks the part, but what i find interesting are two things: the first being that his fur looks quite matted in some lightings and angles but overall looks soft to the touch, and the second being that his tail's horns look much healthier than his own horns on his head. this is in clear contrast to the rest of his body, which looks dry and unassuming with smatterings of coarse white hair up and down his body, and i believe its a matter of the limits to his own self-care. he utilises his tail as another weapon in his arsenal, so he cares for it that it might serve him well in battle, unlike his head of horns, which only serve as a detriment to him with how they must obscure some of his vision, if not most of it. additionally, he likely could bear to look at his tail and care for it, but for an omen that hates his nature more than the average, he probably doesn't enjoy looking at his own face in the mirror enough to properly care for himself.

which brings me back to the sheer differences between these two. morgott, unhealthy and self-loathing, neglects many visual aspects of himself likely because he sees vanity as a luxury not afforded to someone like him. mohg, healthy and self-obsessed, cares and grooms himself to appear very much so like the lord he claims to be, loving himself to a heretical extreme (in the eyes of the golden order). their statures reflect this too; morgott hunches low to the ground, ready to pounce at any given moment but also due to his own shame and humility, while mohg stands tall and proud, though not as tall as he could possibly be due to his upbringing being one of likely having to hunch low to fit beneath the ceilings of the smaller parts of the shunning grounds.

above is a picture of an omen from stormveil, which bears resemblance to all the omen you see in the game. in terms of clothing, one of the big ways people set the omen twins apart, morgott is completely naked save for the ragged cloak of animal hides he wears, signifying he is not fit to even dress himself in a shirt or trousers as befits a king, much like the omen pictured. he wears even less than that, actually, since he lacks even the slightest adornment save for the rope that clasps his cloak together. on the other hand, mohg is entirely adorned in finery, wearing a beautifully embroidered, fashionable priest's robe with matching vestments, and beneath that (as seen in the first image) some underclothes, a plain black button up and some pants. mohg's entire silhouette changes with the removal of his robe, while morgott's barely makes an impact once you realise he has only taken off the one article of clothing he had.

then, of course, there are their fighting styles. there's this fantastic video on youtube that i recommend watching of the twins fighting every major boss in the game, and you can clearly tell them apart from their fighting styles alone. morgott is fast, his size making him look deceptively slow only for him to dart out and do sick flips and somersaults and pirouettes that rival even the most flexible dancers, and he fights with speed and almost animalistic ferocity, save for when he conjures his weapon incantations. mohg is slow but strong, capable of swinging that large trident around like it weighs nothing while hitting with the force to knock down most enemies in a few hits, and most tarnished in just one, but he fights with a steady gracefulness in his every move, walking slowly and carefully while casting spells that hurt a lot.

even their phase 2 transitions are markedly different, with morgott's being one where he drops to his knees, vomits, and releases his cursed blood(?) all over the battlefield, causing his weapon to become alight with his curse and for him to fight with more in-your-face aggression, and with mohg's being one where he simply ignores your attacks and begins stabbing his spear into the formless mother for power at your expense, gaining a majestic set of wings that put distance between you and him so he can cast more of his spells at safer distances. where morgott is pushed to his limit and forced to confront his nature, mohg has long since embraced it and enjoys the fruits of his bloody labour with the mother of truth's blessing.

speaking of the mother of truth, even their patron orders are at odds with each other. the golden order was built upon the foundation of a very carefully-guarded lie: that marika is the one true god, which she can't be, with the existence of radagon (as per goldmask, perhaps the number 1 fundamentalist we meet in game). the formless mother is known also as the mother of truth, existing in direct opposition of the golden order's lies and craving the honesty of one of the purest expressions of life: blood. these two ideals would war against each other, with one being dedicated to the upholding of a beautiful, corrupt lie and the other being dedicated to the instillation of a dynasty of raw, pure truths. as such, even morgott and mohg's own great runes reflect these contrasts in faith, though, remarkably, these two great runes are ones that fit perfectly over each other, with mohg's slightly elevated (seen below, taken from the fextralife wiki).

so, where does this leave us? i don't know, exactly. i wasn't really writing this with any sort of ultimate conclusion. i just found it really interesting how different they were, and i wanted to talk about all the noticeable, significant differences between them here. thanks for coming to my ted talk.

[hedgehogoftime]

It's kinda funny how Silmarillion fans characterize Maeglin as this poor misunderstood goth kid who was ostracized by Gondolin, when Tolkien goes out of his way to describe how Maeglin was beloved of both his family and the people of Gondolin and that he rose high in honor and acclaim, but Idril was the only one who mistrusted him and that was because he was in creepy obsessive incesty love with her.

Like, it's a pretty straightforward case of "this guy has so much good stuff and has so much going for him but was corrupted by greed for the one thing he couldn't have". It's the same thing that ruined Feanor and his sons and so many others.

I'm not saying that what was done to him by Morgoth wasn't a tragedy, but he was also the architect of his own destruction.