#Liking Jason is ≠ hating Percy

[somewhereincairparavel]

I'm actually appalled at how gatekeeping, aggravating and Percy obsessive the pjo fandom is when you say you like Jason as a character or say ANYTHING good about him at all. I've had such horrible experiences, like why the dirty look ffs? I'm not a "true" pjo fan if I like Jason?? Bffr it sounds like something an 8 year old would say

Like I came across a YouTube comment appreciating Jason and Nico's closeness as friends and the replies HAD to be "oh L take. Imagine liking jason. Percy was much more brotherly and affectionate with Nico than Jason was" like ??? This is isn't about Percy?? Not everything revolves around him?? People can like and appreciate others too? How come I NEVER see these comments in a Leo or Nico post?

Or those stupid Instagram reels where ppl go "The people who like Jason isn't one of us" like this ain't a cult ma'am you aren't special for for making Jason lovers feel unwelcome. It seems to be some kind of trend.

Liking Jason isn't a fucking disease and people aren't obligated to have Percy as a favourite. Get over it, the world isn't going to end. I swear I didn't want to come off so aggressive here but this is seriously a very toxic and offputting trait the fandom has that NEEDS to fade over time.

[bookalicent]

yeah so this was insane

[mioakem]

Jason grace had two separate potentials to be apart of an absolutely gut wrenching, soulmate coded, beautiful, mind numbingly poetic romance but instead we got jiper

[blackpensils]

I want someone to put Jason Todd, Danny Phantom and Percy Jackson in the same room.

They would either try to kill each other or they would conquer Olympus. There is literally no in-between.

[riri-loves-cats]

I had a dream that there was a Heroes of Olympus TV show and they made Valgrace canon

[lilislegacy]

the seven + nico on a roller coaster

percy: 😎🤙

annabeth: *deep in thought about it’s design and how it was built*

leo: “WOOOHOOOOO” “PUT YOUR HANDS UP BITCHES” 🤪🤪

piper: *low key hates it but she’s pretending to have fun* (*fake smiling*)

jason: “this is great!” 😄🤓 (his hands are neatly sitting in his lap the entire time. he lets out some little giggles)

hazel: 🤢🤢

frank: 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

nico: 😐😐🫨😆😐😐

and quite frankly that’s all i have to say

[thedevilandhisgrandmother]

Just finished reading house of Hades

Emotional trauma galore

[poppitron360]

Jason knew that Leo was alive and even went to go look for him.

Imagine the worry as the months dragged on, not knowing why Leo wasn’t coming back. Imagine the waiting, the wondering. Was he okay? Was he hurt? Was that message faked, did Jason just imagine it?

Leo has had experience running away. If he wanted to disappear, he’d know how. What if… what if he didn’t want to be found?

And then the thoughts start to spiral. Was it something Jason did? Was Leo mad at him? Why didn’t Leo tell him his plan- could he not trust him? Was Leo stuck somewhere and needed help, or was he not coming back because he didn’t want to see Jason? Maybe he’d gone off with Calypso and forgotten all about them… all about him. Maybe Leo hates him now. Maybe he always hated Jason, and had to die to escape him. What does that say about Jason as a friend? As a leader? As a person? Why wasn’t his friend coming home?

[wanderingmind867]

I really do like Jason more than Percy. There's a long paragraph in the Mark of Athena where Piper says Percy isn't her type. I don't want to transcribe it all immediately, but like…yeah, I get it. To paraphrase Piper: Percy looks like a trouble making kid she'd see at the Mall. A skater kid she'd steer clear of. And yeah, me too. If I went to school with him in real life, doubt i'd love him. I always hated the kids who talked back and made trouble. Even if Percy isn't a bad guy, the fact he's even capable of giving off these vibes makes him less appealing than Jason.

Because Jason has this honour, this kindness, this discipline about him. He seems way more serious, in a way that feels almost way more relatable. Or something to that effect. I lost my train of thought halfway through this, but I hope I still make some kind of sense here. And also (just to try and end this with one more point): Tempest is just cooler then Blackjack. A storm spirit, crackling and pulsating with energy? Riding a storm cloud? I'm sorry, but that's just so much cooler. I hate heights too, so the fact that Tempest doesn't have wings is a slight positive, too.

I know I begin this note by acting like I don't like Percy, but that's not true. I do like him. I swear by all the gods, I like him. But I just like Jason and Nico and Leo and a lot of other characters more. He's important to me, but I like a lot of other characters more. And I don't say that as any insult to him.

[grandpakronos]

casual plays every time i think about rick not making valgrace canon

[happyk44]

Jason who immediately loses respect for people who don't own up to their mistakes vs Annabeth who would rather die than admit she made a mistake

[somewhereincairparavel]

'i hate jason grace because he thought he was worthy enough to compete with percy' I'm sorry have y'all SEEN jason. this man defeated a TITAN without weapons and his bare hands to the point the titan wanted to rise from the UNDERWORLD with the help of a GODDESS to seek vengeance over him. I think we can cut him slack for having some well deserved self respect bc I'd brag too wtf

[thelilylav]

We only see each other at funerals

(On Jason, Thalia, Nico, Bianca, and their parallels/connections)

The Titan's Curse (Rick Riordan), @/anxiousmaya_, Right Now (Gracie Abrams), The Battle of the Labyrinth (Rick Riordan), Joan of Arc (Mary Gordon), The Lost Hero (Rick Riordan), Episodes Toward and Elegy for Halley's Comet (Lindsey Drager), Jason Grace (Riordan Wiki), The Gods Show Up (Michael Kinnucan), The House of Hades (Rick Riordan), What the Living Do (Marie Howe), The House of Hades (Rick Riordan), Planet of Love (Richard Siken), The Blood of Olympus (Rick Riordan), Tangerine (Nolune), The Blood of Olympus (Rick Riordan), The Blood of Olympus (Rick Riordan), I Bet On Losing Dogs (Mitski), The Burning Maze (Rick Riordan), @/abhorarchive (Twitter), The Burning Maze (Rick Riordan), Seventeen (MARINA), The Burning Maze (Rick Riordan), @/rollercoasterwords, The Tyrant's Tomb (Rick Riordan), @/the-overanalyst, Where Things Come Back (John Corey Whaley), Grit (Silas Denver Martin), Softcore (The Neighbourhood), The Tower of Nero (Rick Riordan), Frost (Mitski), @/moonbends, I'm Your Man (Mitski), Sun Bleached Flies (Ethel Cain), The Tower of Nero (Rick Riordan), Three (Sleeping At Last), My Art

[mioakem]

Male character who died at a young age from a disappointing death? Okay okay tell me more. He’s tall and muscular??? Perfect. He’s European and has a thick accent?? Alright bonus but not required. He’s bi but has/had a girlfriend that he loves/loved very much??? Absolutely. He has a male best friend that the majority of the fandom ships him with?? Alright, good but again not required. He has a tough guy persona but is actually a super sweet and kind of goofy and lovable guy??? Well golly gee sign me up

[swordoffrivolousthings]

Thoughts about Heroes of Olympus and how it could have been better.

Sometimes I think about what would have made HOO a better series. And I'm not talking about the obvious 'too much focus on romantic relationships' and the lack of usage of certain characters or the dumb ending.

I mean the little things that would change so much (mainly character dynamics but also worldbuilding i.e. Camp Jupiter and Gaia's reasoning)

Some of the points are inspired by @crisisreading and their posts. They are the first I saw raise some of my own points so! part 2

Make the ages vary more in the main cast, trust me

Let Percy, Annabeth and Grover get older by 4-5 years. Let them become adults and find themselves outside the godly war. Let them even finish college, I wouldn't get mad. Let them do anything beside being teenagers.

I promise this would make the dynamics more interesting. Percy and Annabeth will be more mentor figures, than fellow comrades. This would create some distance between some of the them, but ultimately create something fun. Piper would come to see some aspiring female figure in Annabeth (I think this would ether be positive or negative, depending how Annabeth changed as a character over the years, but I tend towards negative). Leo would potentially have someone older to exchange ideas with. Jason would possibly feel intimidated by Percy's vastly superior age, prowess and experience, instead of being able to clash heads with him.

Hazel would have not one, but two that people that would play parent to the others' reckless behavior. (go snort your harmful stereotypes up your ass, Riordan.) Frank, when telling Percy and Hazel about his stick, would possibly find in Percy a kind hand (not that he wasn't kind already, let me explain) and Percy would probably share with him this feeling of vulnerability - not dump it on Frank - about having your life tied to a specific thing. I mean his Achilles heel, with which he would have lived for far longer.

And a whole lot more.

2. Add Grover into the series as a perspective character

You have a new trio dynamic introduced in the first book of the series. Let the original trio interact as main characters and let us see how their relationship has changed.

Grover's opinion on the conflict between the gods and Gaia would be important. He is the Lord of the Wild, and Gaia is the literal personification of the Earth. Let us see his struggle between the loyalty he has to the gods and his friends and his powerful feelings towards protecting nature.

Also, he would act as a protector for the demigods. Because while I enjoy Hedge, he is not enough to keep them safe.

3. Throw the bullshit about Gaia getting revenge for Kronos' defeat out of the way

Gaia, as mentioned before, if the personification of the Earth. One of the first gods to emerge from Chaos.

Gaia can, of course, keep her resentment for the gods defeating the son that freed her from her pain (caused by Ouranos initially). But she is a mother goddess. She should want obliterate humanity because humans are slowly killing her. Painfully. She wants to survive and the only way she sees how if by killing all the humans. She wants to save her children, aka animals, insects, nature, and the only way she sees is bloodshed. Gods are not rational in their anger, no one is. So let her be angry and vengeful and out for human blood.

DO NOT MAKE HER A FUCKING VILLAIN, MAN! Make her an antagonist, but someone's whose ideals are worth taking in and adapting. Kinda like Luke about the demigod and minor god recognition. Where have the themes of the original series gone? Remember, an important theme in BOTL was protecting the environment. It was one of the most important moments when Pan faded. Do not let that go to fucking waste. Especially not now, in the world we live in.

4. Show the effects the war had on Camp Half-Blood. Hint it at Camp Jupiter, when Percy does not have the memories to corelate it with

We've had years since the end of the Second Titan War. How did the gods change the course of events ? (the victors write the histories) How much of Luke's reasoning for starting the war was erased. (hint, all of it.) Show us how much the perspectives were shifted and how much the people that fought in it were made into martyrs and villain, basically becoming caricatures.

Let us feel how much this hurts Percy, Grover and Annabeth. How it had impacted and impacts their trauma, grief and utter horror. The younger, newer campers see them as wonderful, all-just and loyal heroes of the gods. The way they hate it.

Good moment to implement the new cabins for the gods and let the new ones forget that it wasn't always this way. Let Percy's demand to the gods be forgotten, shoved under the rug. The tragedy unfolds, use it.

Since in Camp Jupiter none of the main characters have fought, let us see the subtility. Let the older legionnaires be ragged, scarred. Older and weary, with eyes glassy and suspicious. Have younger recruits have this heavy air around them. They know what happened, what killed most of the older people in the legion.

Have Jason, Hazel and Frank see these things in Annabeth, Grover and Percy too. They realise that oh. oh. these three have fought in the war, of course they would. Show them gain respect for the trio. The same kind of respect they have for the veterans back home.

5. Cut one of the Seven from the prophecy.

I know this seems radical, but it is a symbolism thing, which I think would be more interesting in a world based on Greek mythology.

It is established in PJO that three (3) is an important number: 3 Olympian sisters (Hera, Demeter, Hestia), 3 Olympian brothers (Hades, Poseidon, Zeus), 3 Fates, 3 quest members, 3 Furies, 3 godly realms (the Underworld, Olympus + the sky, the seas). Use this.

Give us six (6) prophesized heroes. It is, after all, the second most used number in the series and a multiple of 3.

I suggest Annabeth. Why? because she has her quest from Athena. Let that be her top priority, while hanging out on the Argo II to get to Rome. Let her bond with the younger demigods and have her possible death be always on her mind. Bring her hubris into play and she would think herself the chosen one, the one demigod child of Athena to survive. This would make her falling into Tartarus with Percy not letting her go more taxing on her psyche.

Show us how she hates herself because she took one of the principal quest members to certain death. She feels like she'd jeopardized the whole saving the world thing.

Cut the Seven to Six and let Annabeth die in Tartarus. Show us why a single-man quest is a death sentence. Why three (3) is such a valuable number.

6. CONSEQUENCES!!!

Jumping straight off the last point.

Change why Annabeth would end up in Tartarus. Make her ignore the string around her ankle because she thing that nothing bad can happen to her now. After all, Arachne is gone, right.

Let this be her undoing. I do not care how she dies, but make her choices, her hubris, be her undoing. Do not let her death up to a chance, a mistake or miscalculation. Show how toxic Tartarus is, because we do not see it enough, but make it Annabeth's idea, the plan by which she dies.

Do not make it Percy's fault. Let him try to do everything to keep her alive, but still failing. Attack his sense of loyalty, his self-esteem. Show how the experiences and her death affect him.

Bring the trauma from the last war back in those chapters, in a place where demigods leave something behind.

To less drastic things - let the others get hurt. Permanently. Show how this life affects and damages people physically, too.

Have one lose an eye, another get horrific scars. Lose a limb, a part of themselves. Do not make it seem like any other could have gotten the same wound.

Tailor them to their character, their pride and their skill. Hit them where it hurts most and let us see how it changes them.

Also, about Leo. Kill him too. The fact that he ended up alive is a deux ex machina. He should have suffered the consequences.

Also also, bring back the fatal flaws. They are missing from the series. Play with them, show why they are important parts of their characters. Bring back ancient Greek fatal flaws, and new ones that make sense in a modern world.

Hurt them because what hurts them is part of who they are. Show us why the Greeks invented tragedy.

7. Age up the target age. Go more young/new adult

I understand that PJO was made for middle schoolers. But the target audience had grown up alongside the characters, and as such they have matured.

This is why I said to age Percy, Grover and Annabeth up further. Leave some distance for the old and new readers to get up and personal with the new main characters. Have them find common ground with the new demigods but have their anchor in the old ones.

Make the readers work to understand and refamiliarize themselves wit the older demigods. Because they've changed.

Targeting a more mature audience allows exploring n. 6. The realistic consequences of living with the fear that something will come and eat you. How just a little mishap could change you for life. (or what has been left of it)

Please do not go grim dark. Show that despite this all, their purpose has not stopped existing. A life exists outside of your appearance or disability still exist, and while it would be hard, do not lose hope.

8. Hope, or lack of its importance in the Heroes of Olympus series

Alongside other callbacks and reinforcements of PJO's lore, where is Elpis (hope)? Why doesn't she appear as a larger theme in the books? I don't know.

Elpis is still in the jar, having been used as a threat of defeat. But now Kronos is gone. Have Gaia use it as s symbol for her own cause.

Make hope Gaia's argument. The most important part of why her cause stands. Gaia is waking now because there is no hope for the betterment of the planet while in human - and therefore godly - grasp. She wants to save the planet, but they, the destroyers, are opposing her.

Hope is what she wants to bring back. The hope that death will not be the end of life, but further evolvement and betterment of all species.

This argument is what the counterargument should unravel. All species? Why are humans considered irredeemable, unworthy of becoming something greater?

Why can't they not coexist and why can't humans learn how to care about the world surrounding them.

Make hope for humanity and for the environment not a question of if they are capable to coexist, but how we can manage that. Humanity and nature are not mutually exclusive, but two halves of the same whole that need each other to sustain their longevity. Yes, nature can exist without humans, but humans can't.

This does not mean that the best way forward is to kill all humans.

There is no need for hope in HOO because there are no greater questions being asked about topics that require hope, because otherwise we would descend into nihilism and fatalism.

9. Give the gods reason to act the way they act, or a look at a greater narrative problem in the series

I may be generalizing, but the gods act erratically and make choices convenient for the plot, as it is, to happen.

Hera: how, specifically, does she know that Gaia is rising and what her plans are. Why is she against Gaia, when the older goddess has a track record of helping the Olympians on different occasions in the myths. Why does she decide to act when she does, how she knows that the king of the giants (whatever his name may be) is coming after her right then.

We don't know.

Athena: we understand why she wants the Athena Parthenos back. Why not force the Romans to give it back. After all, she is a goddess, even if the Romans don't respect her as the Greeks did, she has power and sway over them. Why send her children, a supposedly important part of what brings her glory, to a near-certain death. Is it misguided vengeance, an obsession to get the statue back at all cost, or simple cruelty. These reasons could apply very well to sending the Romans, yet she doesn't.

Zeus: why lock down Olympus? Paranoia, which fair, but you are a King, why wouldn't you look after your subjects? (bc Riordan chose to ignore part of his characterization in the myths and part of his godly domain) (I know kings aren't perfect, but after the last war, one would think he would do everything in his power to stop another one before it begins) Why not seek justice for Octavian's lies, that affect their ability to win the war, and kill/imprison him? Justice is part of his domain, as Zeus Nomius.

I know that we wouldn't necessarily need these answers, but without some of them, some choices left hanging seem to be there only to add to the drama and danger of it all.

All in all, I have many problems with the 'Heroes of Olympus' series. Some of them are nitpicks and personal preference as a high fantasy reader in my free time. Some of them would really add to the story and continue the themes of PJO.

Please ask me if something wasn't clear to you. I'll happily explain further.

If you find something you don't agree with, let's discuss. I'm open to changing my opinions.

[reddamselette]

“I feel like my brain is going to explode,” Leo mumbled before dropping his head into his hands. He made a show of shoving away his notebook and the textbook he was using to study the material beforehand. It had only been twenty minutes since he sat down and it felt like eternity.

Jason snorted, nudging Leo in his side with his elbow. “I know it’s not that you don’t understand, so what’s it really about, Firefly?” He tilted his head in curiosity, sparkling blue irises locked onto his boyfriend’s face like they were made to just watch and observe. Leo had always been so pretty to him.

Leo shifted in his seat to comfortably lean into Jason’s side, his arms wrapping around his torso, smooshing his face into Jason’s arm. “I don’t know, I just…I really hate math.”

Jason leaned back against the booth, laying his arm across Leo’s shoulders and pressed a soft kiss into brown curls, rubbing comforting circles into Leo’s arm. “How about this? We’ll continue for another twenty minutes, yeah? Then we can take a long break, however long you want.”

Leo cracked a smile, lifting his head to meet Jason’s gaze and he kissed his cheeks, his nose, his lips. “Well when you put it like that,” he said before planting another quick peck to Jason’s cheek and sat upright. “The greatest monster of all time: Mathematics.”

“You’re such a dork.”