#KIRK AND SPOCK LITERALLY DO THE ROMANTIC LOVE THING

[robotspock]

what if i ended it all right now.

[sad-trekkie-life]

Random Star Trek TOS analysis: Spock & male gender expectations and stereotypes

I was recently discussing with my best friend his experiences growing up in a very binary “right-wing” society. He expressed that he often felt ashamed of the fact, that he’s very emotional, soft person, with big interest in fashion and other things which stereotypically associated with female experiences (manicure, makeup, emotionally-driven literature, “girly” cartoons & shows, etc). He also shared that his male friends would rarely discuss emotions, feelings, and allow themselves to just feel, as it is not seen as “masculine” in the society we both grew up in, so he relates more to female experiences.

And we ended up talking about TOS and Spock. Because I am trekked in the head I guess, and he would also relate to Spock in this particular situation.

I’ve noticed, that despite the stereotype that men are not emotionally and physically gentle with each other, it does not coincide with what straight male writers and creators love to portray in male friendship driven media, which is often considered as an ideal. For example, Lord of The Rings comes to mind. It was written in the 30s-40s, and male characters are very gentle with each other and are open about their feelings with each other. They hold hands, kiss each other, cry. It is not portrayed as romantic or weak, at least, romantic possibility part is not portrayed so intentionally, and those tender relationship we can also observe in the film adaptations of the books.

Also, I’ve read a book by USSR sci-fi writers Strugatsky brothers, Prisoners of Power. USSR’s ideal of a man is seen as pretty stereotypical, BUT, it is actually far more normal for men to be physically affectionate in the Eastern European society. If you watch USSR 50s-60s films you’d probably be surprised to see men randomly kissing each other in the lips because, for example, they are happy… And also holding hands and dancing with each other if there’s no female partners is considered normal still. BUT still I was surprised by the fact that in the USSR book, male character Guy calls the novel’s also male protagonist Max “beloved” multiple times, and it literally says that “Max made him fell in love with him”. Of course, it could be intentionally romantic, as Strugatsky brothers were very progressive and critical about USSR, but the fact that censors said zero things about this very open tenderness between two male characters, in my opinion, says a lot. That at least it wasn’t seen as gay, and even if it WAS written as gay, which is obviously a huge possibility, this amount of love between two males was seen as normal or at least idealistic.

Watching Star Trek I realized that Kirk and Spock’s relationship do remind me of Max and Guy from this obscure Soviet book. If we go away from the romantic interpretation of the relationship, we can’t ignore that

1) Spock and Kirk’s relationship is often the focus of the show and a primal focus of the Star Trek films

2) Spock and Kirk are canonically soulmates and in The Search for Spock it is told literally multiple times.

Spock’s popularity as the character also proves his relatability to the audience, regardless of their gender and identity.

Roddenberry himself said the following of Kirk and Spock relationship:

“I definitely designed it as a love relationship. And I hope that for men…who have been afraid of such relationships…that they (Spock and Kirk) would encourage them to be able to feel love and affection, true affection…love, friendship and deep respect”.

You can also read this exact quote on Wikipedia. Star Trek is a highly idealistic show, as it portrays the perfect society, and in that society it is completely normal for men being emotional, open, and being open about their affection to each other.

But what does it all have to do with Spock and my friend’s experience?

I’ve concluded, that Vulcan society aligns with what society typically expects from men, or what many men feel it expects. In the beging of the show Spock experiences shame for the fact that he feels friendship for Kirk. Spock grew up in the society where emotions are seen as weak, despite the fact that Vulcans do feel emotions. A lot of emotions.

But the fact is, Spock is a VERY emotional and emphatic individual. He is half human, so he’s an outsider in his society. He cries mostly in the show, and actually he is very tactile with his friends despite that Vulcans like to keep their personal space.

Kirk, on the contrary, while being an officer, for whom it’s important to be collected and calm, and the situation often forces him and the whole crew actually to not let their emotions take control (otherwise they’d be screwed up) is pretty open about his tender side. With him Spock learns to accept himself. And he only becomes the closest to being happy, when he fully accepts his emotional side. Kirk is a pretty happy person although he has been through a lot, because he’s not ashamed of being a romantic, idealist and the person who can say to you quite easily “you make me believe in miracles”.

So, you can interpret Vulcan as a reflection of gender stereotypes that are imposed upon men, and the whole message of Spock finding the balance, is that to be happy is allowing yourself, as the man, to let those standards go. That being open about your emotions and tender side is noble, heroic, and masculine.

This interpretation is quite possible, as science fiction is created to analyze society and human flaws by allegories and hyperbole.

We, as society, still need to learn and we need to have such examples of healthy masculinity as Kirk, Spock, Bones (also Doctor of Doctor Who, Frodo, Sam, Aragorn from LOTR) and such characters’ popularity proves, that many men do experience the pressure, and do want to be open, they like it, it is healthy, and it’s their ideal. And Prisoners of Power I mentioned earlier is a very popular book in the USSR and in post-USSR as well, and is considered a science fiction classic.

It doesn’t matter if you read those relationships as homoerotic or not. The intention is, no matter what kind of relationship it is, it is healthy, manly and great.

Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

[your-name-is-jim]

What a Kirk/Spock shipper sees in a Kirk/Female-Love-Interest story [PART 2/2]

Part 1 <- Please read Part 1 first. Part 2 won't make sense otherwise!

This panel is absolutely AMAZING and you all deserved to see it :D

So, what were we talking about? Oh, yeah, Laura just proposed.

As you can see, Jim is panicking not sure what to answer, so the first thing he does is calling his two best friends. There are so many things going on here; I'll try to mention everything I care about!

"Starfleet is getting a lot better at partners of equal rank working together."

This is an important part of this comic: apparently, in this story Starfleet isn't encouraging relationships between officers with a different rank. I know it's sort of implied in canon too, but it's not always clear if it's actually against regulations or if it's fine when the ranks are close.

As a K/S shipper, this detail just gives me an in-universe reason why Jim and Spock aren't considering dating each other in this story: a commander can't probably have a relationship with a captain. I mean, we already know from canon TOS that Jim avoids relationships with the members of his crew, so this just adds a layer to a potential forbidden love story between them. Yeah, I know this isn't what this comic is trying to do, but what can I say? Fans don't stop shipping something just because they learn it's not allowed in-universe… if anything, they can find it more exciting! :D

"We could teach at the Academy. Mind you, she laughed at that idea."

Oh, wait. Jim actually talked to Laura about their possible future together! It looks like he's thinking about them as teachers at Starfleet Academy. Hmm… this sounds familiar:

2277 — Accepts appointment to Academy faculty, moves into San Francisco apartment

This is from Kirk's biography in Star Trek official website. Between The Motion Picture and The Wrath of Khan, Jim accepts a job at the Academy. We see it at the start of the second movie, after Saavik takes the Kobayashi Maru test.

Wait, who's the other teacher here? :D

Okay, okay, in that era Jim is an admiral and Spock is a captain, so their ranks are still different, but except for that… They both teach at the Academy. And it's literally what Jim proposed to his love interest Laura in the comic! With my Kirk/Spock goggles on, what I read in that panel is "If Laura and I got married, we could both do this thing that I'm totally going to do with Spock in the future." LOL

Did the comic creators notice the parallel? Probably not. However, we K/S shippers have special skills for finding accidental implications about our ship everywhere, so here it is :)

"Your thoughts, please, Mr. Spock."

I said I had a lot to say about that single panel, so of course I can't skip the last line! A human woman has just proposed to Jim, and what does Jim do? He asks for Spock's opinion. This says a lot about Jim and Spock's friendship, and it's very sweet on Jim's part, but it also makes me think about Jim's love life. What about Jim and Laura's romantic feelings for each other? Does Jim want to spend the rest of his life with her? Perhaps the reason they don't talk about it (not even with Bones!) is that it's implied that Jim loves her and she loves him, even if they never say it. However, I still think it's interesting that Jim's discussion on the matter is mostly "logical".

Anyway, I swear I won't post every single panel of this comic, but Spock's reply is an absolute gem you all must see:

"I AM SOMETHING OF AN EXPERT ON THE SUBJECT OF JAMES T. KIRK."

(dkjflsdjlkdjglk brb losing my mind again)

Ahem. Okay, Spock. Noted. Also, wow, nice make up. Did I say that the art in this comic is great? Good.

"I believe someone of equal status would offer you the best possible chance of happiness."

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I find interesting his use of "equal status" instead of the more specific "equal rank". Status makes me think less of their official position in Starfleet, and more of how two people actually see each other. It's not just about Laura and Jim being both captains; it's about them seeing each other as equals.

Anyway, Jim jokes about Bones and Spock finally agreeing about something, and the conversation continues.

Jim's best friends are both encouraging him to marry Laura. In this panel, I zoomed in on Bones because his words are especially interesting. Based on everything we've seen so far, it looks like having a romantic partner when you're in Starfleet is a pain in the ass in general in this comic; however, Bones is pointing out that for the first time, Jim has someone who really understands. Of course, that's because she's a Starfleet captain too.

About Spock, I won't share the entire conversation, but I just want to say that as a K/S shipper who likes to think Spock is secretly in love with Jim in this era, I find his dialogue where he's supporting Jim's relationship with Laura totally reasonable. It's important to remember that this comic takes place close to the end of the five-year mission. We know that Spock is going to run away after that, trying to erase all his emotions in Gol. So, in this specific part of his story, I find pretty in character that he'd tell Jim to find happiness with someone else. That's what he'd do, regardless of his own feelings.

So, Jim knows his two best friends think he should say "yes" to Laura. What happens next?

During a mission, Jim meets his ex Carol Marcus. She is surprised to find out that Jim is considering settling down. This is not completely related to this analysis, so I won't post it, but I found interesting that Carol knows about every single woman Jim dated before he became captain (the only one she doesn't name is Ruth), and she even says "And that woman in 1930, what was her name?" Just… how the hell does she know? LMAO

At least Jim hasn't told her about Miramanee and Rayna (well, technically he doesn't even remember the latter), but seriously, Carol does know a lot about Jim's private life, even if it's clear she doesn't want her or their son to be part of it. (Not really related to this plot, but in case you're confused about the timeline: David is a child in this era; however, he doesn't appear in this story.)

Anyway, this is what she eventually tells him:

So, I like to think that Carol is genuinely trying to help Jim here, because the spiteful ex girlfriend is another thing I don't really want to see in 2020. I want to think that the creators meant well; however, what happens in the story is that, despite Jim not seeing himself outside the captain's chair, and despite his best friends telling him to marry the captain that is just like him… Jim keeps thinking about Carol's words.

He knows from Starfleet that he's going to be promoted to admiral the moment he reaches Earth. What is interesting here is that Jim could refuse the promotion and be a captain with Laura. This is definitely a different situation from everything else I've seen before. It's obvious to anyone who has watched TOS movies that Jim is not happy as an admiral. He didn't really want to be one. He doesn't want to be one in this comic series either (you can see it explored in Star Trek: Year Five main story). However, thanks to The Motion Picture, we also know that he will accept promotion at the end of his five-year mission. This isn't a canon divergence story: the writers can't really change any major event, so they have to work with what canon offers.

What I find interesting is that in this 2020 comic, Jim finds himself in the opposite situation he is in Gene Roddenberry's The Motion Picture novelization from 1979. In Roddenberry's novel, it's mentioned briefly that Jim starts a relationship on Earth with a vice-admiral, a woman that was basically asked to use her charm to keep Jim grounded. Jim could refuse promotion, but he finds himself lost, without his ship, without Spock, and eventually without Bones. So he tries to convince himself that a life as an admiral with a perfect woman by his side will be good for him (it will not; Jim himself will realize a year later that his lover was an "Enterprise-surrogate").

Now, I understand trying to write something fresher and more modern in this Valentine's Day special, but I confess that I find a little hard to believe that Jim would accept a promotion as admiral if the alternative was keeping both a starship AND a wife. Also, let's not forget that Spock and Bones are both telling him to choose the married captain life. So, while I totally get from a writer's point of view that if you can't change canon, you have to work with what you have, I'm also not sure that Carol reminding Jim that he's always wanted to challenge himself is enough to make him doubt everything.

I guess I can sort of see that as part of a bigger problem: Jim knows he can't be a captain for life; during his first date with Laura, as we saw in Part 1 of my analysis, he talks about it.

"I've been thinking lately about whether I could ever stop being a Starfleet captain. Whether I could ever want to. A friend of mine talks about 'infinite diversity'. That applies to the Federation, too. But here I am, only built for one thing."

So, Jim knows he has probably avoided the subject for too long. Carol is forcing him to think about it. And, more implicitly, we could say Spock and his IDIC philosophy are also making him think, even if it's not what Spock would have expected. After all, Spock told Jim to marry Laura (in the comic), and he'll tell him that being a starship captain is his "first, best destiny" (in The Wrath of Khan).

Anyway, Jim eventually decides to meet Laura and talk to her about his personal concerns. First of all, we find out that the two of them haven't called each other for six weeks. Laura is still waiting for Jim's answer, and she didn't want to call him. If you ask me, their lack of communication is yet another a big clue that perhaps getting married is not a great idea.

Well, now Jim is at least trying to talk to her.

Aaand that's how she breaks up with him.

I'm not sure how to feel about this. I mean, in a sense, Jim doesn't say "I decided to be an admiral instead of marrying you", but Laura definitely sees it that way. I think he was genuinely looking for help, but that just proves that Laura isn't the right person for him. Why marrying someone you can't communicate with? They are such a great team as captains, but it looks like that doesn't apply to their relationship. I pointed out other clues in the previous parts, and now we got this. It's interesting to see that Jim in this comic can have a normal conversation about his future with Spock, Bones, and even Carol Marcus, but not with the person he's supposed to build a future with. Unless something changes between them, it can't work out.

Anyway, this isn't the end.

A year later, when Jim is an admiral on Earth, there's a sudden emergency. A miniature black hole appears out of the deep structure of the universe (don't blame me for the science, I'm literally quoting the comic LOL) and it's attracted to Earth gravity. Short story: they're all going to die, but fortunately the Drake (Laura's ship) can cause an anti-matter implosion that will shunt the black hole outside their reality. Unfortunately, that also means the Drake will have to go inside the black hole. Laura evacuates her crew and asks Admiral Kirk to give her the order to proceed. Reluctantly, Jim tells her that he knows she'll do it, and he gives the order.

Now, please appreciate The Motion Picture aesthetic:

Okay, I know I could have chosen a panel with Jim and Laura, since this is literally their love story, but I did say this analysis was going to be biased, so here is Laura with her two closest friends instead; they would never let her risk her life alone! <3 They are very obviously meant to be a parallel to what Spock and Bones are to Jim, which is very cute to see. Now, Laura, listen to me: I know the three of you have different ranks, but you may die in a few seconds… And I just think that the few times your friends appear in this comic, you have a lot of chemistry with them, sooo maybe you should forget about Jim and just smooch one of them, or both… just saying :)

Ahem. Anyway, after Laura and her girlfriends disappear into the void, there's another timeskip. This time it's 15 years.

Oh, damn.

I said in the premise of this analysis that one of the reasons I decided to read this comic despite shipping Kirk/Spock is that, in my headcanon, Kirk and Spock get together after The Motion Picture. Until this point, this comic hasn't really gone against my headcanon. I can genuinely believe that Jim had another girlfriend during his five-year mission; it's not a big deal. Unfortunately for me, this comic has its last part taking place around The Final Frontier era. Dammit.

Well, it's just one comic. I read until this point; it'd be illogical not to read until the end, right? Nah, it's not logic. It's human curiosity. I know I won't like it, but I still want to see it.

Also, if there's something that I really don't want to see in modern media anymore, is female characters dying just to make male characters suffer. I can accept that in TOS show because it was made in the 1960s, but even TOS movies got better about it! Characters like Saavik and Gillian can have their own lives without having to die for a man's pain. It's not a coincidence that the writers had to kill Spock to make Jim suffer. Without digressing too much, I just wanted to say that K/S bias aside, I went into this comic hoping to read something different from another dead woman for Jim. I'm very glad that, at least about this, the comic creators didn't disappoint me!

So, in this story, it's been 15 years since Laura's disappearance (actually, it should be more, but I'll try not to nitpick, despite being the trekkies' favorite hobby :D). Anyway, the one with the whales The Voyage Home happened, and Jim is not an admiral anymore. He's happy to have a starship again, but he hasn't stopped questioning his life decisions.

We can also see that, 15 years later, he's reading the book Laura liked.

HOLD IT! WAIT WAIT WAIT! ARE YOU KIDDING ME?? ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME??? WHAT THE--

*inhales deeply*

(Friendly reminder to myself that what is obvious to me may not be obvious to everyone else, so I need to explain. Fine. I'll try.)

The screenshots I posted are from The Wrath of Khan, right after Spock's funeral. What Jim is doing there is reading the end of the book that Spock gave him for his birthday. He's mourning Spock.

In the comic panel, Jim has a new pair of glasses, because it takes place a little later in the timeline. But, except for that…

It's the same scene.

The same fucking scene.

I mean, come on! I can't even post the "they're the same picture" meme, because it's not funny if they're literally the same picture! Even the bookmark is the same!

The comic creators literally took a canon scene about Jim reading Spock's book after Spock is gone, and they redrew it with Jim reading Laura's book after Laura is gone. In a Valentine's Day special. Where Laura is Jim's love interest. They made a romantic scene with Jim and a woman that was originally about Jim and Spock.

(Brb, I'm going to chew a pillow until I calm down.)

So. Well. If you wondered why I thought there was something about Kirk/Spock in this comic… you have your answer. Perhaps the artist didn't think anything about it. I certainly do.

And I guess someone could say, "But Jim is still reading Laura's book 15 years later! That's true love!" Why yes, he's not reading Spock's book 15 years later, because he didn't stay without Spock for 15 years; he risked everything and lost all the most important things in his life to save Spock's soul.

Anyway, back to the comic. Starfleet receives a signal from the edge of Federation space. It's the Drake. Laura and her friends are alive.

Jim and Laura have a reunion after a long separation. Since they're both captains now, Jim thinks they are given a second chance.

Oh, whoops.

It's her turn now. It looks like being away for 15 years has changed her (as you can expect, honestly), and she's now glad to become an admiral. In this comic, that means Jim can't marry her. So, this is how the story ends:

So. Um.

This isn't a bad ending, but I also wouldn't exactly call it a happy ending. It's certainly not a happily ever after story. I'd call it open, maybe hopeful? Honestly, pretty much what I'd expect from a love story between an original character and Jim, so I can't say the writing is disappointing about that.

On the other hand, I can't personally imagine middle-aged Jim being so eager to start a romance again with someone he hasn't seen in 15 years who broke up with him 16 years ago. Perhaps he felt guilty about Laura's disappearance because if he had married her, they would have been part of a colonization fleet somewhere else and the incident wouldn't have happened the same way? Maybe. Personally, I would have found more believable an ending where Jim asks her to have dinner together or go for a walk, and then something romantic happening as they get to know each other again. But I can see why the creators wanted to bring up the marriage proposal again, just to close the circle. The comic is just 32 pages, so they did what they could.

"Unless there's someone else." "Not so much. I've been really busy."

Busy with what? Oh, right: Spock's death, Spock's body on Genesis, Spock's rebirth on Vulcan, the time travel (okay, that one wasn't 100% Spock-related), Spock's brother… Honestly, just say there's been a lot of Spock in your life, Jim, because that's the truth :)

On a more serious note, I guess that dialogue could mean that Jim has someone, but "he's been too busy" to do anything serious with them. However, as a K/S monoshipper I don't really like the idea of Jim being in an open relationship with Spock, so Jim's character in the entire scene in the end is just a big NOPE for me. Sorry.

That said, I found very interesting that in a few panels they show very clearly the "captain" rank on Jim and Laura's shoulders, to point out that it's the same. They can't be together forever, but they can have fun for a few days as captains. Because of that, I went back to the start of the last timeskip, just to check out something:

Fascinating.

This is a pretty detailed panel, where you can see the ranks on the shoulders of Jim's friends; the colors of their pins are also pretty good, close to the ones in the movies… except for Spock's.

Oh, please. Did you really expect me not to pay attention to this? :)

Captain Kirk and Captain Spock.

And unlike Laura, this is what they are until the end! The end of a very long life! Generations? What's Generations? Spock will eventually become an ambassador, but that's just a different job. How did Spock himself put it earlier in this comic?

"I am something of an expert on the subject of James T. Kirk. And I believe someone of equal status would offer you the best possible chance of happiness."

Did the comic creators just play themselves? I don't know, I'm quoting their own story here! LOL

And what about Jim's words from the same scene? :D

"Starfleet is getting a lot better at partners of equal rank working together."

Partners. Of equal rank. Working together.

That's literally what Kirk and Spock are since the end of The Voyage Home! Without an expiration date!

The comic creators made a big deal in their universe about relationships being better between two captains, and how good Jim and Laura may have been for each other if they had married as captains; and now they can't have their happily ever after because Laura is going to be an admiral… But even if the comic tries to hide it, we know there is a captain in Jim's life. And to make things better, Jim lost his admiral rank to bring him back. Listen, I'm a huge Old Married Kirk/Spock fan, so there's no way anything can make me forget that in the last TOS movies they're both captains. And there's no way I can forget that Jim risked his entire career (and everything else!) for Spock, and that's literally why he's not an admiral anymore.

This is almost ironic in this Valentine's Day comic. If it hadn't been for Spock, Jim would have still been an admiral, and he could have married Laura. Whoops. Too bad.

Speaking of admirals, I didn't notice it at first, but there's also something about this line Laura says in the last panel I posted…

"And don't you dare 'Admiral' me."

Ah, yes, a typical thing you tell someone you're planning to have sex with. Right, Laura? Agreed :)

Honestly, at this point I should just stop checking this comic, because I wonder if I'd just end up finding a Kirk/Spock version of every Kirk/Laura Rhone line LOL

By the way, I have other thoughts to share now that the story is over, but there's one more thing first. Do you remember the last panels of the comic? Middle-aged Jim and Laura kiss; END.

Okay. After that, the comic has a picture of the cover, with Jim and Laura kissing when they're younger.

And then it has this:

dklsfjlskjflskjlksjlkdlkgjdlfgsnfjekniuwanf LISTEN, HOW--

Just how am I even supposed to say anything that makes sense about this…??? I'm just… I can't…

Okay. So. We're talking about a Valentine's Day comic. It makes sense for it to include a cute Valentine card. I also get that Spock's iconic line has become so mainstream that it can be quoted out of context. And you can make parodies.

But… But… A Star Trek TOS fan can't really forget the original context of "I have been and always shall be your friend"? Someone could just not think about it, I guess… But, well, I know that at least I can't forget that this is literally Spock's line to Jim rewritten in a romantic Valentine's Day version. I can't possibly NOT think about it!

And I know it's very possible that the people who worked on the comic story weren't even aware of this extra, but the fact that I'm seeing this after reading about Jim Kirk's romance without happily ever after… Jim kisses a woman he can't stay with forever, and then there's Spock's "I have been and always shall be your Valentine". It's just so fucking funny. I can't. If I was feeling a little down after seeing middle-aged Jim wanting to marry Laura, now I'm laughing again. Thanks, Spock's silly Valentine card. I needed it! :D

Anyway, what did I say about this comic taking things originally created for Kirk and Spock's relationship and making them romantic when they're not about them? I can believe that sometimes it's a coincidence, but this card? Please… In a sense, this is the perfect ending.

---

Conclusions.

I started this comic with a question: in 2020, how do you write a story about TOS Kirk falling in love? I wanted to see this attempt. Overall, I think the creators did what they could. Laura is different from every other woman in Jim's life; they didn't kill her off, and they also didn't force a happy ending. I think they did a good job with the canon limitations they had, especially in 32 pages.

Do I believe that Laura could have been a good match for Jim in different circumstances?

As a temporary girlfriend? Yes.

As a lifelong partner? No.

Of course, I'm aware my answer is biased, but I can try to be a little more "logical" about it.

First of all, I think that the comic itself supports my interpretation: of course, like in every story, different people are going to see different things; however, as I already pointed out, Jim and Laura never say that they love each other, and before the marriage proposal their relationship is pretty casual.

In The Original Series, Jim isn't lucky when it comes to romance because the women he falls in love with can't really understand his nature as a space explorer. Sometimes they can, like in Carol's case, and that's why they break up with him. Laura is the opposite, because she's just like Jim. But here is the thing: I think Laura is too much like him.

What would have happened if Jim had accepted to marry her at the end of the five-year mission? They would have been both captains. On different ships, though. Sure, they could have been part of the same colonization fleet, as Jim says in the comic, and maybe it would have worked for a while. However, would they really have seen each other as much as Jim needs?

I don't know about Laura, but we see multiple times in canon that behind his mask as a starship captain, Jim is definitely more lonely than what someone may think.

First of all, don't get me wrong: in these screenshots from The Naked Time, Jim is single, so of course his attraction to Janice Rand is related to that. It's not the same situation he'd be in if he were married to Laura. Early in the series, he has thoughts about his yeoman exactly because he doesn't have anyone else. Contrary to his fame as a womanizer, TOS Jim in canon always has one woman at a time in his mind, never more.

So, why am I sharing those lines? To show that when Jim is always inside the Enterprise, he does feel lonely. He needs a romantic partner's physical touch. However, we also know that Jim does not want a relationship with one of his subordinates, so Janice Rand and the rest of his crew are off limits.

Laura is good for him because she's part of Starfleet, and not a subordinate. But is that really enough? From what I've seen in the comic, no. At the end of the day, it looks to me that Jim and Laura don't really know how to plan a future together. Perhaps it's because they're so similar, but they don't really think of themselves as a couple, especially Laura. There's Captain James T. Kirk and Captain Laura Rhone; they both love their ships, so they should get married? That's not how it works.

Their relationship is casual. Jim doesn't want to define it. Are they friends with benefits? Are they in an open relationship? Either way, when Laura decides to marry him, she asks around if Jim has someone else, and only after that she asks him. Jim, on the other hand, doesn't talk to her for six weeks after her proposal. He talks to Spock and Bones immediately, but not to her. He even talks to Carol first.

Then, when Jim finally tries to talk to her about his problems, she doesn't listen. Their lack of communication is the cause of their break up.

16 years later, what we see is even worse. It's obvious that Laura has just different priorities. Maybe it's because of what happened to her lost in space, but I'm not sure. If they had married at the end of the five-year mission, would have Laura always refused a promotion to admiral? Would she have tried to get a promotion with Jim? Based on what we see in this comic, it doesn't look likely to me.

Now, as I said, different people are going to see different things, so I'm sure that someone really invested in this romance can imagine that Jim and Laura are really meant to be, and they can get their happy ending after their retirement, or in other ways. However, I admit that Jim and Laura's huge communication issues make hard to me to picture a long happy relationship between them. They should both try to get better, but in those 32 pages there was no hint towards that direction.

There's another thing that makes really hard to find any love interest for Jim as a plausible "happily ever after" option: the stakes. I know that it's just a single comic, so the creators had to focus on a few things; however, I couldn't help but notice that Jim and Laura never really save each other from dangerous situations. They work together as a team, and Jim watches Laura disappearing into the void, but does he do anything about it? Does he try to reach her inside her ship before she disappears into the black hole? Does he try to bring her back from the void? No, he doesn't.

In TOS show and movies, Jim Kirk risks so much for his crew and his ship that a Star Trek fan can't believe that a new woman is the love of his life, unless Jim is willing to do for her everything he does for his friends. And honestly, after The Search for Spock… how can he even come close to do that?

And it's not just about Jim's actions. There's his language too. At the start of the third movie, Jim refers to Spock as "the noblest part of myself". What could he say about a love interest that is as deep as this?

Let's be honest here: the reason it's so hard to write a story about Jim Kirk's true love is that the real love story for him has already been written. You may not see it romantically, but Kirk and Spock's story is absolutely a love story. And when a character has someone he loves so deeply, it's not easy to convince the audience that he could have someone new to love as deeply. In Jim's case, the combination of his personality and his canon life makes it almost impossible.

Anyway, before I end up not so accidentally turning this analysis into a complete Kirk/Spock ship manifesto, I'm just going to mention one silly thing about the Valentine's Day comic. Please, don't take it too seriously, I'm half-joking :)

So, there are two kiss scenes in the story: one when Jim and Laura start to spend a lot of free time together, and one in the last panel. Well, I can't believe Jim isn't holding Laura's shoulders when he kisses her! That's just the basis of the way Jim kisses women! D:

Different Star Trek characters kiss in different ways; it fits their personalities. And because the rest of my TOS posts are probably too gay for these gifs, I'm dropping them as references here:

Sorry, but if Jim Kirk doesn't grab someone's shoulders before a kiss, it just kills my immersion! :P

Okay, a little more seriously: Jim doesn't always kiss women the same way; however, his "shoulder grab" is common enough that you definitely notice it if you pay attention. Because of that, I think it would have been nice to include it in the Valentine's Day comic.

After reading this comic, what kind of person would I consider perfect for Jim?

Well, my answer is obvious. However, I'll try to elaborate.

First of all, this story definitely convinced me even more that Jim can only be really happy with another Starfleet officer (or at least someone who's been deeply involved with Starfleet). He also needs someone who understands him as a space explorer, without trying to keep him grounded. And someone very smart, of course. These are all traits Laura has. But they're just the basis.

I don't think Jim needs someone in command of their own ship as a lifelong partner. As I said before, I can't really imagine it working out. Another starship captain would have their own goals and their own ambitions; that doesn't mean Jim shouldn't marry someone with specific plans for their own career, but I think these plans should keep the two of them close, not on different ships. Jim needs his partner physically at his side; if he could be happy in a long-distance relationship, I believe we would have seen at least one working out in canon. But it's never the case. Working on different starships from the same fleet would be a little better, but in my opinion not enough, unless it's for a short period of time.

And there's also the matter of his partner's personality. Jim is a natural leader; that's why he's so good at his job. I don't think he needs a similar kind of leader as romantic partner. This is just my personal opinion, but I believe they would just fight about everything they disagree about. I think he needs someone calmer in his life, not someone who'd encourage emotional outbursts.

More importantly, he absolutely needs someone he can communicate with. If he can't talk to his partner about everything important, they're not the right person for him. That doesn't mean they can't have disagreements or miscommunication issues, of course, but they shouldn't happen all the time, and Jim and his partner should be able to talk about them and make up.

In conclusion: someone at his side on his ship, smart, calm, trustworthy :)

Now, I know what some of you are thinking about: what about the "no relationships with subordinates" personal rule Jim has? How can Jim be in a relationship with Spock (or anyone else on the Enterprise) if he's everyone's superior officer? Well, first of all, I already said that after The Voyage Home, Jim and Spock are both captains. And before that… I think that Spock in the comic phrased it the right way. Jim can find his happiness with someone of "equal status". I think it's pretty clear, in my opinion, that Janice Rand and Spock aren't the same kind of subordinates to Jim. Just think about it: which members of the Enterprise call their captain "Jim"? Bones, Spock and (occasionally) Scotty. These are the three people I believe are "equals" in private to Jim, no matter their ranks when they're on duty. Because of that, a relationship between Jim and Spock could work pretty well.

By the way, another thing the Valentine's Day comic made me think about is that in TOS movies, Jim sort of does with Spock pretty much everything he does with Laura in this story. Not the same way, of course, but does it matter? Spock is his own person, he's not Jim's copy. That doesn't mean he can't indulge Jim, have fun himself… and try to stop Jim from doing dangerous things "for fun", as an old spouse would :)

Okay, perhaps throwing each other into the water doesn't count as dancing, but it's so much better :D

In conclusion, this is the way I can read the Valentine's Day comic as a Kirk/Spock shipper:

Jim mentions Spock on his first date with a woman.

Jim questions his life choices as he thinks about Spock and IDIC philosophy.

Jim does with Laura everything we see him doing in TOS show, except for playing chess (just the thing he does with Spock).

Jim says Laura and him are a good team in Starfleet because they had a lot of sex (is that true about other people he works well with??)

There haven't been many ladies or gentlemen in Jim's life because he's busy (not because he's not into men, apparently).

"Starfleet is getting a lot better at partners of equal rank working together." Good for your future with Spock, Jim!

If Jim and Laura got married, they could both teach at Starfleet Academy, something Jim is totally going to do with Spock someday.

Mister "I am something of an expert on the subject of James T. Kirk" Spock.

Also, Mister "I believe someone of equal status would offer you the best possible chance of happiness" Spock, which is actual foreshadowing of his own future status with Jim.

Hey, look at Jim reading a book that reminds him of his lost love! I wonder where I've seen LITERALLY THE SAME PICTURE???

"Don't 'Admiral' me". This is totally not similar to what Jim tells Spock in The Voyage Home, of course.

Hey, we're both captains now! Just for a few days, but isn't that great? I wonder if anyone else is a captain now, and forever? :D

"I have been and always shall be your Valentine". Totally not a Kirk/Spock line, I don't know what you're talking about! :)

Okay, okay, that's all.

As a Kirk/Spock shipper, I won't deny that I'm a little jealous of this Valentine's Day special comic, because I wish we could get something with amazing art like this where Jim is in love with Spock. On the other hand, Star Trek: Year Five comic series has a few scenes about Jim & Spock's friendship that I really liked. Platonic, sure, but good enough for my K/S goggles!

Thank you so much for reading this post until the end! I hope you enjoyed my analysis! Live long and prosper!

[t0ast-ghost]

“Since the Cerritos is statistically the horniest and least romantically committed crew in Starfleet, we have no married officers aboard.”

- Lower Decks S4 EP6

First off if this is referring to just their current time period then yes I’d probably agree BUT since it’s a show and I think the creators were making a clever nod towards other shows I’d like to point out some things

This’ll get long. (Spoilers for TOS, TNG, DS9, & SNW)

TOS:

Both Spock and McCoy are divorced (McCoy twice over)

Whatever was going on between Spock and Chapel ???

Kirk is apparently too committed to the enterprise (yeah definitely the ship… nobod-nothing else) to commit to any of the women that he has definitely fucked

Kirk didn’t commit to Carol Marcus and she had his son

The Shore Leave episode

Theodore Sturgeon’s letter about the Shore Leave episode

Episodes with “Paradise” in their name

Must I bring up Amok Time?

Half the crew is just in love with the ship and all their relationships fail. The one time someone tries to get married their spouse dies

TNG:

Jean Luc is happy as is … Q however

Q is the horniest motherfucker for that frenchman and I’m counting him

Riker

Beverly with the ghost

Oh yeah Jean Luc literally kills two spouses (Crusher and Sisko) he’s actively uncommitting the romantics

The show’s SECOND EPISODE is where everyone gets super horny and fucks each other

Even the “emotionless” android gets some (I cannot blame Tasha one bit, Godspeed)

That’s all I remember from this show

DS9:

JADZIA DAX MY QUEEN

Julian Bashir’s original name was Dr. Amoros. He is doctor dick.

Lwuxana Troi wants Odo so bad but that goop ain’t committing

Whatever is going on between Odo and Quark

Need I mention Garak?

Mirror universe (Kira is about to kiss herself)

Almost every character is dating each other in this show and they made it canon for several but they all fall apart (Except Rom and Leela cause they’re perfect)

The O’Brien polycule… I drew it out but it got more complicated than the O’Briens (basically Julian is best friends with Miles who is married to Keiko. Keiko was on a shuttle while pregnant with Julian and Kira when there was a crash and Julian had to transfer the child from Keiko into either him or Kira, so Kira volunteered. She ends up living with the O’Brien’s while carrying the child and bonds with both of them (to the point both she and Miles think it’s weird). Kira eventually gets with Odo who is Quark’s nemesis and Quark is crushing on Jadzia who is exes with Julian who is (somewhat unknowingly) courting Garak. Jadzia Dax becomes married to Worf but I think her and Sisko have definitely fucked. Sisko is married to Kasidy and enemies with Gul Dukat who reciprocates that but is also fixated on Kira who hates him. Did I miss something?)

Now, I bet they did not count DS9 in their statistics because it’s a station not a ship but also because they’d always win this contest

SNW:

Spock and T’Pring

Spock and Chapel

Spock and Kirk

Other Kirk and La’an

Kirk and Carol ???

(All of them fail that’s why I bring it up)

Pelia has been married to another woman (not canon but it’s gotta have happened, right?)

Whatever was going on between Una and Neera in the court episode

There’s no way Uhura’s in a relationship (they might set her up with Scotty next season but I’d like to see her and Chapel)

The others do not seem romantically committed to other people

Pike’s weird dinner parties

To be honest Lower Decks is maybe the most outright vulgar in its language but most of the time it’s a feel good show about a bunch of best friends. Their captain is married, their CMO and head security officer are in a (happy?) relationship, and third thing here.

I haven’t seen any of Voyager or Enterprise and I don’t think Discovery is that horny/romantically uncommitted

[victimsofyaoipoll]

Round 2

Propaganda Under Cut

Mel Medarda

she is the richest woman in piltover who left her family because she didn't agree with the way they did things (conquering and murdering). she sponsors jayce and viktor, and courts jayce, which makes people upset because, you know, jayvik. she and viktor are CANONICALLY parallels with much of their imagery mirroring the other's and they are literally the same height. and people are so weird and misogynist and racist about her. they argue she is manipulating jayce and doesn't actually love him. i am cognitively disabled and cannot explain things well, but, she is so fucking shouldered

Black woman who has a romantic arc with one of the main characters Jayce. Jayce has a best friend called Viktor and their relationship is pretty important plot wise, shown as a direct contrast to his relationship with Mel even though only one is canonically sexual/romantic. So naturally fandom as the transformative safe haven it is villainized Mel horribly coming up with theories about how instead of being a complex morally grey character she's actually evil and just wants to seduce Jayce for Evil Reasons. Since they couldn't use her as a supportive female friend with no personality, others just ignored her existence entirely or acted like Jayce would ditch her for Viktor. Majority of m/m shippers will reduce her down to her relationship with Jayce and an obstacle in the way of JayVik, ironically writing her as a far worse and less complex version of the character we get on screen. The misogyny reeks and combined with the racism? It's a pretty bad case. Only slightly mitigated due to the fact that the main characters of the show are women (and the lead is a lesbian) so thankfully the male focus of fandom is lessened as opposed to filling almost every inch. Still awful to try and search for good Mel content, godspeed girlies with taste.

She's one of the most interesting characters on the show, a rich politician, smart and beautiful and has a really complicated and intriguing relationship with the city's golden boy inventor. unfortunately golden boy has a sickly twink science partner so she gets sidetracked SO BAD

Nyota Uhura

She's Spock's canon partner in AOS, and I get it because they're not a great couple, but she gets villianized in fic so much. They constantly make her an asshole (which totally has nothing to do with her being black /sarcasm) and abusive just for the crime of dating a man headcanoned as gay. And I mean, I think Spock is gay and her being a love interest was unnecessary but still! She's cool!

Oh my god so in the Star Trek reboot she’s Spock’s girlfriend and the fandom has no idea what to do with her??? Like she is ALWAYS either such a bitch or like the mom friend? And there is so much more to her character than that? But they always break down her character AND find a quick and easy way to break up her and Spock. I’m not even mad at that but at least treat their relationship with some weight instead of just being like ‘it never mattered’. People can love multiple people throughout the course of their lives. You know that right? Just because you loved someone before doesn’t make your new love any less special. And even headcanoning Spock as gay… you realize he doesn’t need to be attracted to Uhura for their relationship to have mattered, right? Even if he confused friendship for romantic attraction, him feeling such strong friendship and openly expressing it is so monumental for him!!! 

she's dating Spock, who people ship with Kirk, so fans have decided that it's horrible writing and "really, they're just defending her, the movies turned her into just a love interests," which is not at all true. The movies do so much more for her to the point that the fans who have only seen the movies think that the main characters are Kirk, Spock, and Uhura instead of the Kirk, Spock, McCoy of the original series. Also having a black women being shown as being desired and loved in mainstream media, particularly by one of the most popular characters of all time, is a good thing, not making her "just a love interest"

[aroace-thoughts]

I know this is heavily affected by how romance averse/repulsed/favourable you are, too.

For context: I recently realised how as a kid, I saw literally everything that wasn’t confirmed through characters actually getting together as purely platonic for the longest time. Big examples for this were Spock and Kirk, or (any Germans will relate haha) Winnetou and Old Shatterhand. Same with any other widely adored fanon ship, it just didn’t cross my mind. I was genuinely shocked a few years later to find decade-old fanfics written about them falling in love or to learn that gay people been holding onto them for many years as subtle representation.

But when I first entered fandom spaces as an older teenager, and saw the sheer amount of shipping and romance in fanfic, I flipped a switch the opposite way and fell really hard into fictional shipping. I’m pretty romance-favourable when it comes to media (most of the time…..) and genuinely enjoy reading rom-com style books/fics, so much so that I started going the amatonormative route and struggled seeing platonic relationships in media.

It’s only recently that I found a balance. I still actively enjoy fictional romance and root for some couples to get together, but at the same time am pretty desperate for non-romantic plotlines and happily single characters and platonic relationships that don’t change into anything else. (And explicitly aro characters… but that’s still a bit too much to hope for in most of the mainstream media 😅)

Because of how diverse the aro community is, I’m super curious about other people’s experiences with this! I know this poll is very simplified, so feel free to expand on your answer.

Were you always one way or did things change over time? Did it have something to do with you knowing you were aro or not, feeling more comfortable in your identity?

Please reblog to reach more people!

[peachviz]

After four very long arduous months I finally finished Enterprise and the review is (tw this is probably gonna be super unpopular. If you like it great, wish I could say the same):

- I hated it.

- the men were so wildly uninteresting that I have to physically hold in a yawn (except for Phlox. He’s cool And Travis bc I could trust him with a drink)

-Malcom was cool for like three seconds and then they decided oh wait we have to have a creep in this show too. so at least Star Trek is consistent. No amount of introducing the random Section 31 plot for like the last five episodes of season 4 will ever make him interesting to me. Like they should have developed him wayyyyyyyyy earlier

- Trip sucked for like two seasons. He was a micro aggressive little Republican and then just when I thought I hated him, he grew on me like one of those pimples that turns into a dark spot acne scar that I can’t get rid of. I was so vehemently against T’Pol x Trip. The neuropressure felt like dubious consent. He has PTSD. T’Pol’s written to serve the men on the ship. Like I hated it. And then the Lower Decks episode came out right at the time when I was on the episodes where T’Pol was going through withdrawal and Trip kept asking her if she was okay when literally NOBODY else did. (Except Phlox but that really doesn’t count bc that’s her father figure/doctor) Then he kept changing and getting soft and shit and next thing I knew I was in love with him too. Gross.

- sidenote real fast on that note. The bar is incredibly fucking low, fellas. T’Pol should have been getting that treatment from the start. I get it. We all love an enemies to friends to lovers but that could have been portrayed better. I realized I’m just hungry for a gentle relationship from Star Trek. Like a truly gentle and respectful relationship. Odo and Kira kind of scratch that itch but then they separate them. Dax and her lovers (excluding Ezri and Julian bc fucking no thanks) are cool but then they kill Jadzia. Kirk and Spock are so very gentle and then we can never quite get them to stick. But I realized, since starting my journey, I’m just hungry for gentleness that sticks. No miscommunication trope. No this is starfleet we don’t have time for relationships. No horrible death or departure that separates them forever. That’s why this fandom freaks out when something becomes canon or semi canon. We are starved for that representation or actual meaningful partnership. They got the friendship and parenthood thing on lock for the most part, I just wish they had good relationships without the added baggage. I get it, it’s a soap space opera. But bro, it’s so hard to find gentleness, for the female characters especially.

- anyway, back to Trip. Really tired of Star Trek making men blow up. And that’s all I’m gonna comment about his death. I’m like 20 years too late to yap about the series finale. You’ve heard it all before. It was ass just like the show idk what more to say

- Archer succccckkkkkkkkkkssssssssss. I’m sorry I’m truly sorry, but I just couldn’t get behind him. The writers kept trying to convince me he was this suave guy, and I wasn’t buying it, bc that’s just not who Scott Bakula is. They would just have him so cold in some places and it never felt right bc Scott just isn’t that guy. It seemed like they were very confused with how they wanted him. All of Archer’s romances were so pointless and boring. The way he treated T’Pol was so fucking disgusting and the forced romantic tension that you guys warned me about felt even worse, especially given how T’Pol is treated for a while. I really don’t like his, there’s no way out just do it attitude. Bc it’s always at the risk of someone else’s deteriorating health or mental health or even his life. You can tell he’s just very disillusioned by the badge. To me anyway. And I just don’t agree with that logic. Hoshi may have been the only one to decrypt but she was so heavily tortured and exhausted to the point where several people were telling Archer that she should not do this and Archer had a boot so far in his mouth he really couldn’t care what happened to her. When he kept begging Hoshi to finish, is when I lost my respect. That’s just something that wouldn’t happen with anybody else. I try not to compare every captain with one another, but nah. This time I couldn’t. Didn’t like him. Thought he was boring and weird. Scott Bakula this isn’t about you sweetie, you were amazing. I just wish they would have figured out what they wanted your character to be sooner.

- this show had a big misogyny problem. Like worse than any of the other ones before. Just like you can pinpoint when Gene Roddenberry dies because the light returns to the female characters, you can pinpoint exactly where Rick Berman is like “enough of this female empowerment shit”. T’Pol suffered and I mean suffered more than any other female character I’ve EVER seen on this show. I can’t imagine it was great for the actress, and I haven’t looked into the drama on this show particularly yet. But I’ve heard from the grapevine, it’s not great. It’s sad, because T’Pol is an amazing complex character and they drop the ball every single time. I genuinely started the all T’Pol does is suffer tag bc I just couldn’t believe it. I’m not gonna go too much more into it. I’m just saddened and sickened by it.

- overall, the show was a colorless, boring, hot mess. I think fandom is what makes it interesting. It didn’t get good for me until like the last seven episodes or so of Season 4. It never picked up for me. It made me angry. It didn’t feel like Star Trek. I guess in parts it felt like TOS trek but like the worst parts of tos trek so I guess berman succeeded at one thing with the show. You can tell they are on a tight leash. My partner called it the incel version of Star Trek bc he watched only a couple of episodes and hated it. It had its good moments but they were far too little and fleeting. They also have some really good complex characters, ie Hoshi, Phlox, T’Pol, Trip. Travis was cool why couldn’t we had more Travis??? Idk, it was just not my thing like AT ALL. Again, if you like it great. I wish I did

I like how they delve deeper into the Vulcans and the Andorians. I’m still confused asf about the temporal time shit like Wesley crusher might as well be doctor who to me now bc none of it makes any sense and I still think it’s a mistake to have it. You can tell that the studio kind of had enterprise under a tight lock and key. But overall, it’s such a male driven show. I tried watching interviews with the cast all together and I still don’t like the vibes. The cast together itself is just wasted potential. They all are great individually but the studio really let them down. Idk could have been better I really am trying to find something positive to say but as a female fan of Star Trek I just didn’t like it. I can’t look beyond how female characters are treated. Just didn’t like it

Anyway, current rankings:

Current Captain Ranking:

1. Sisko

2. Janeway

3. Picard

4. Pike

5. Kirk

6. Seven of Nine

7. Freeman

8. Riker

9. Dal

10. Shaw

11. Archer

Current Series Ranking:

1. DS9

2. Prodigy

3. TOS

4. TNG

5. Picard

6. Lower Decks

7. SNW

8. Voyager

9. Enterprise

Anyway, time to watch discovery. It’s the last series on my list. I’ve been doing this for almost two years now. I want to end this journey soon lol. Now to make my last ever Star Trek edit for TikTok and unfortunately, it’s enterprise. But this won’t be my last Star Trek edit for tumblr so stay tuned

[raisinchallah]

mulder and scully really do feel like queerbait for straight people its honestly really funny like its absolutely not the normal will they wont they investigative duo where the jokes seem to be around a growing attraction the characters might have for each other and awkwardness around this vs the jokes about mulder and scully seem to be the idea it would be funny if they did something romantic but they both dismiss this or leaving an idea hanging and literally never going thru with it i mean in some ways i think this probably works better because i think what people like about these kinds of intense close partnership ships is the fact that if u never actually go anywhere specific people can imagine literally whatever they want and also it manages to side step the problem that television writers are often quite bad at writing romance that their relationship can be a lot more equal and scully does not become subsumed by wife/girlfriend/love interest tropes that seem to inevitably slip in when things begin getting written as a romance i mean honestly some of the episodes that more aggressively play with or drop intense hints about them being in love also seem to be paired with some weird sexism or sometimes the implication scully is in love but mulder is not but if they are simply kept to like a weird partnership with no other love interests its like both happening and not happening keeping everyone happy in some ways but also making everyone annoyed which is again the usual model of a classic queerbait idk it feels like a specimen to study its more boring than real queerbait because if its straight theres no added layer of also vaguely implying characters might be gay or something unrelated to the main ship baiting so actually i think this somehow loops around to mulder and scully being like kirk and spock but straight literally women just want a weird partnership where u do insane things and investigate things and have nobody else in your life but each other and it does kind of make you miserable idk where i was going with this anyways bait enthusiasts are like weirdos who believe in the paleo diet being like oh you want your agricultural era farmed romantic plotlines you could never get the nutrients or thrill of the hunt that foraging for bait does your bones will never be strong but also i am kind of mulder and scully shipping neutral if im being honest its more a fascinating phenomenon to observe for me and i think its funny when straight people are absurdly repressed and never get together

[westworldparty19]

I’m so serious get away from her right now x2. Get away from her (Spock). Get away from her (Chapel). Stop kissing! YOURE LITERALLY AT WORK. They make me sick together lol.

Also Ethan stuttering out “live long and prosper” 🥴

That’s like your main catchphrase as a this character and you can’t even say it?

SO BEYOND excited to see Mariner and Boimler!!! I love them and love that they get to go on this adventure together.

Kirk and La’an…I’m willing to see where this goes because their little clip didn’t seem romantic. I think they would work well as friends who have traumatic pasts and they like try a little kissing but it doesn’t really work. Interested to see how and why they bring Kirk in so early.

SOOO amazingly excited to see Kirk and Uhura hanging out. Ik a huge Kirk and Uhura besties truther. Like they trust each other so much. I don’t really see SNW Uhura’s personality gelling with Kirk but interested nonetheless.

No real interest in seeing Pike and Una together unless like I’ve said before there’s some kind of anti incarceration angle.

Also I know it’s too early to judge but it seems like we’re rehashing some more TOS aliens of the week and while it’s cool to learn more it kind of defeats the purpose of the TOS era mission. So what like half of Kirk’s crew has already come face to face with half of the aliens/issues they encounter and they just don’t tell him about it?

Will be watching but with a critical eye! I’ve learned to just enjoy things in the past year but this is one thing I can’t just watch.

So I will be posting whatever my thoughts are. They may be critical. You can unfollow me or block me if you are going to be hateful towards me. I’m allowed to be critical of a show, you’re not allowed to be mean to me as a person just for having opinions about an objectively silly subject. I will be blocking and reporting anyone who is outrageously cruel (like I have to do every single time I post about SNW).

I do welcome different opinions tho! As long as they are respectful.

[lenievi]

because SNW is allowing me this reading and because it’s something I’ve always headcanoned (way before SNW and Kirk/La’an), I’m just gonna ramble and muse a bit

spoilers for snw2 episode 9

(if you wanna read more Kirk/La’an thoughts related to the episode, here. I’m probably going to muse about this a lot in the upcoming days, and make more coherent posts)

Kirk isn’t in love with Carol. He likes her, but he isn’t in love with her. His and Carol’s relationship was always casual; if the Farragut was close to Starbase 1, they were on, if they were away for a longer period of time, they were off. 

And now Carol is pregnant, which was unplanned, and caught both of them off guard. But Kirk’s loyal and serious, so he wants to be there for her and their child. Even though it complicates a lot of things. He might even think it will complicate his career, unless he wants to become his father and take his child through the galaxy, never having time for him.

TOS tells us that Kirk and Carol weren’t together by 2261. TWOK tells us that David met James Kirk and that Carol asked Kirk to stay away and never told David who his father was.

So there are two options. Carol tells Kirk to stay away quite soon after David is born, and he does, but years later, they reunite, but also they don’t get romantically back: “Were we together? Were we going to be?” and Kirk doesn’t really try to befriend David

OR they simply break up, but Kirk is allowed contact until a certain age. And after that Carol tells him to stay away. “You had your world and I had mine. And I wanted him in mine, not chasing through the universe with his father.” That could literally be after the 5ym, even. Or shortly before, but David remembers “that overgrown Boy Scout Carol used to hang around with”, so after seems more plausible. (but again, they don’t get back together) (which is something I did mention in this post some time ago)

[most of the stuff above is just my original HC tweaked a bit to fit new info from SNW]

Before SNW seriously introduced a potential of Kirk/La’an, I expected SNW to give us Kirk/Carol story. But last week, I was thinking and realized that SNW isn’t a Kirk story - he isn’t a main character (I know people tend to see it that way, but he’s not). We won’t see Kirk centric episodes (or at least we shouldn’t for a pretty long while imho or at all tbh) - his every appearance should be tied to the main cast. That doesn’t mean - as we’ve already seen - that we won’t get his backstory, but it might mean that a lot of Kirk’s life will just happen off screen.

(I’m not saying we won’t see Carol. They cleverly put her on Starbase 1 where the Enterprise returns to often. There’ll probably be an episode where the Enterprise will need to do something with the scientists at Starbase 1. Spock will probably meet Carol there as well, so they can also tick off another “canon” point. But it won’t be a Kirk story.)

I do tend to see Kirk/La’an from Kirk’s POV a lot because that’s just what I do (and because in the long run, it’s heartbreaking), but the story is written from La’an’s POV. She already lost Kirk once, she lost him twice. From the storytelling POV, the story should eventually lead toward something more positive when it comes to Kirk and La’an as a relationship. Not having them eventually get together (even if they part after or La’an dies) would just feel hollow and ??? Especially since Kirk confirmed that he had feelings for La’an, but he can’t act on them because he has a gf and a baby on the way. (and as viewers, we know that Kirk/Carol just won’t last even though the characters don’t know that)

(But also like, Kirk, pls, you have a gf and you’ve still kind of led La’an on.)

From Kirk’s POV, I can see the “it was a lost potential that never happened”. If Kirk was the main character (and not La’an), I’d probably even expect that. Kirk made his choice and La’an moved on. But not from La’an’s POV tbh Not giving La’an her chance at being vulnerable and happy with Kirk would be too bleak. But I’m also known for liking the “wrong couples” lol 

Using her experience with Kirk to find that elsewhere would of course work in RL, but as a story, it’d be disappointing.

Well, I might change my thoughts after I see the finale and what they do with Pike/Batel and Spock/Chapel lol I don’t believe Kirk is in the finale but maybe I’m wrong.

in any case, if Kirk doesn’t appear in the finale, I’m totally using this when I figure out what kind of Kirk/La’an fic I’d like to write. I just want to give both of them happiness. Even if it’s temporary. 

anyway SNW still giving me everything I want. when will it end? when will they disappoint me? lol (probably with McCoy LMAO)

[vulkling]

People calling people who don't like Spock/Chapel 'haters' or misogynists for not liking it. I'm not a damn misogynist for disliking a ship or fictional character (not that I hate Chapel, she's fine ON HER OWN) but consider this:

If not liking that one of the very founding ships of the same fandom that gave SNW its audience AND started fandom as a whole is being ignored even though it could be a phenomenonal marker of progress for the Trek series (which has always struggled with trying to be progressive but been hampered) and society as a whole (the comparison between Trek not being remotely allowed to show same sex relationships at all in TOS and SNW making two of their most iconic characters queer would really illustrate how far we've come as a society, but I guess we haven't come that far 🤷‍♂️)...

...In favour of exploring a relationship with what is, let's face it, a pretty one-note character from TOS, because making Spock and Kirk's relationship romantic and sexual would be icky and nasty and 'degrade' the nature of the relationship (it would literally have the same strength and purity as their platonic relationship, just while acknowledging the gay undercurrent - unless you think sexuality, even gay sexuality, is less pure? Why do you think that? 🤔) and general audiences/the network/investors wouldn't like it...

... Makes me a hater

Then yeah! I'm a fucking hater! I hate this shit!

In addition:

If you're a straight woman, then yeah, you need to check your shit before throwing words like misogyny at people (especially gay people) who don't like your m/w ship. I could easily throw the word homophobia at you and we could go around in circles all day. You need to accept that maybe people don't like Chapel because of the context surrounding her and her (and Spock's) writing and not because they hate women.

Before anyone gets on my ass about Chapel being bisexual and so somehow this is biphobia: Yeah, I'm also bisexual. You know damn well the writers giving her five seconds of homosexuality and then immediately going hard on Chapel/Spock is not revolutionary. It's not erasure to say you don't like a character or ship. Also: accept more than breadcrumbs, for gods' sakes.

No, I don't like Spock/T'Pring either, but at Spock isn't acting (as) wildly out of character around her and I can see what the writers are trying to do, even if I don't agree with it. (If they'd just focused on her and kept Chapel's thing unreciprocated SNW would have been miles better and less of a disorganised love triangle mess.)

[dukeofriven]

SNW's unwillingness to free itself from canon is best illustrated in this image: it is presented as triumphant, Uhura clearly deciding that her place in in Starfleet, that her place is here on the bridge of the Enterprise. But we the audience know that, practicably speaking, her only place ends-up here. Outside of that one quasi-canonical TAS episode where she gets to command the Enterprise, by the TOS era Uhura will—functionally speaking—almost never leave this chair. In episode after episode her only job will be to say 'hailing frequencies open, captain' and nothing else. MLK famously had to beg Nichelle Nichols to stay in the role because he thought it so important for racist 1960s white America to see a professional black woman so prominently on television. His logic makes sense, but from 2023, examining TOS from the perspective of character in a world with better racial casting (in Star Trek, I mean: whatever NuTrek's flaws, its commitment to racial diversity has been really good), TOS' Uhura is barely more than a prop. No wonder Nichols wanted to quit: she's ill-used in almost every TOS episode and absolutely in every film. Frankly it feels like the 'glorious future' SNW is pushing Uhura towards is one informed by an understanding of the character as she exists in the broader realm of fandom, not the crummy reality of the text. This is why I find SNW's approach to canon so frustrating: it wants to break free and do its own thing, to tell fresh stories and have exciting new takes on familiar characters who never got the chance to really shine—but it keeps reflexively shoving TOS-is-our-canonical-future in our face: remember the Gorn? Remember Talos IV? Remember what will happen in The Menagerie? Remember how Spock and Chapel will be kind of romantic in one episode once in the first season and then it'll largely be forgotten about? Remember? REMEMBER? For all the legacy characters other than Spock, the 'future' of Strange New Worlds is death. Literal, in some cases—we know Sam Kirk's going to wind-up a blink-and-you'll-miss it corpse in Operation -- Annihilate!., and crispy Pike's fate is framed entirely as essentially death (abelist issues there for sure). The death is figurative in others: Uhura and Chapel will lurk in the background saying 'comms open' and 'yes, doctor.' M'Benga will get demoted to McCoy's deputy, show up in two episodes, and then never be mentioned again. That's not a future worth arriving at. Not for these more dynamic and interesting versions of these characters. So why do it? Why make these characters people who will end up as nothing? No matter how satisfying SNW's Uhura's story is, why do you want to link her to a future so narratively sterile for her? Does she not deserve better? I like TOS. I love TOS. It's often thoughtful and meaningful television, full of issues, plagued by actor egos, Roddenberry's sclerotic management, and all sorts of production problems—but at its best, when everything aligned, it is some of the most important television of its era. It has endured for generations for a reason. But that doesn't mean every element is good: the bridge crew outside of the triumvirate get more to do than the poor bridge crew of Discovery, but not by much. SNW keeps trying to chart a middle path between two better options, ending-up with a deeply unsatisfying worst of both worlds: not canon enough to satisfy the not insignificant portion of the fanbase for whom that's a serious concern (and for whom that's the entire fun of a prequel: spending more time in an era they know and love), but too canon-reliant to be unburdened by it. 'Here's our version of Uhura, but don't worry everyone, she might seem different but we promise that one day she'll be the woman who does nothing for a whole season other than sit in a chair with a dookickey in her ear and answer her boss' space phonecalls." Uhura looks at that console as her future, but all I want to do is scream "RUN! RUN FAR, FAR AWAY AND NEVER RETURN!"

[thatqueercookie]

Got tagged by @luckshiptoshore (I've got the same first two as you)

8 shows to get to know me!

1. What We Do In The Shadows. This show really does have it all. A queer vampire polycule. A couple that's been together for 300 years and is still in love. The absolute BEST will-they-won't-they on television bar none. Guillermo's character arc is the best growth I've seen in a character in some time. It's hella sexy at all times. Everyone is so perfectly flawed and complicated. This show has inspired me to write more fanfiction than any show ever has! Also it's HILARIOUS, and tragic.

2. Our Flag Means Death. This is the sweetest purest love story and reminds me that no matter what you hate about yourself, or what others hate about you, there is someone out there who will love you for all those things! The representation is off the charts in this show and my love for every single babygirl member of the crew is immense. The only downside in the fandom is the discourse about Izzy. Like seriously, just let him be a part of the narrative. He's fun to hate and he's fun to play with in crack fic/art.

3. Doctor Who. This show will always and forever pretty much be my religion. The messages of love and intelligence over brute force and cynicism are so great. And the message that every single soul in the universe MATTERS and is important and unique and beautiful. And these messages are delivered through a gender fluid intergalactic nerdy tour guide with an infectious sense of WONDER for everything who takes you through time and space battling fascism and capitalism in a mess of camp effects and plot holes. I have seen all the classic and new series and I'm working my way through the Big Finish audios and EDA books.

4. The X-Files. Probably one of the best shows the small screen has ever seen. It's scary, it's suspenseful, it's funny, it's romantic, it's smart. It has simultaneously the longest non-sexual, emotionally intimate marriage AND the ultimate sexual slowburn. I could (and have) watch every episode a million times and enjoy them just as much every time.

5. Star Trek. I love every iteration of Star Trek, but The Original Series is my absolute favorite. It just gives me so much hope for the future. That someday, after all the human race's growing pains, after all the war and the racism, sexism, and homo/transphobia, after the greed and the poverty and pollution, we'll LEARN. We can be better. We'll explore and we won't explore to conquer or assimilate; we'll explore to learn about life and it's complexities and become even better versions of ourselves. And the friendship and sense of family on the Enterprise is just so beautiful. Also Kirk/Spock are the best definition of soulmates I've ever seen. The alien cultures within the world of Star Trek are just so well built and thought out (much better than in Star Wars). As an anthropology major, this FACINATES me.

6. Good Omens. The longest truest love story you have ever seen and one of the only (alleged) representations of romantic asexuality I have ever seen. Aziraphale and Crowley, an angel that doesn't fit in in heaven and a demon that doesn't fit in in hell but they fit with EACH OTHER and they love earth so dearly. It's humanism vs. religion and we win.

7. BBC Ghosts. I'm a sucker for the found family trope and this show does it so well. They're FORCED to become found family because there is literally no way for them to leave. All the ghosts are such nuanced (and autistic) characters and Mike is the best husband. He's so supportive of his wife and her crazy ghosts. BTW the U.S. version can go suck eggs in hell.

8. Willow. A return to the fun fantasy genre and the power of love and friendship that doesn't take itself too seriously. It's also a sapphic's dream! A demi-masc princess and her lady knight in a love story that kiss in the very fist episode? YES PLEASE! And Elora may be the chosen one but she sure does suck at it at first, and I LOVE that about her! The chosen one shouldn't be a perfect magic user, they should need to learn like anyone else. And THRAXUS BOORMAN!!!! Witty, slutty, leggy, longhaired, bisexual scoundrel who deserves to be in every single fucking scene! BUT RIGHT NOW IT'S ON THE KNIFES EDGE OF CANCELLATION SO GO SUPPORT IT ON DISNEY+ RIGHT NOW!

tagging: @someguywife , @indashadows , @glitter-mouse , @blakbonnet @bootlegsun , @nandorisms

[mothmans-cumrag]

Rewatching The Apple be like

finally! I took a break of about a year but I'm back!

I feel like I'm always saying this but how many people, especially high ranking people does it take for them to go on a mission? because of "strange sensor readings"??

I forgot how hot Bones is, fuck (<- this is also Jim's and Spock's internal monologue whenever they see him, btw)

"Husbandry would be quite efficacious" Spock I had to google that word before I was sure but I think you just proposed

Ah, the garden of Eden was just outside Moscow scene, we've all seen it

So he just used kilometres which I am happy about but before they were talking about the planet having an average of 76° which must mean Fahrenheit. I am confusion

killer flowers over here lol

Scotty fishing for shore leave <3 love him

Pavel using this situation to flirt as if he did't just see a colleague die like two metres in front of him

no matter how often I rewatch it, the explosive rock scene is one of the funniest things ever to me

Spock diving in front of a deadly plant for his boyfriends is the best thing ever to me, sorry not sorry <3<3<3<3<3<3

Oh wow, the transporters don't work, that's something I've never seen before in my life.

Spock calling the hypospray "potion" <3

Jim is so fucking right every time someone jumps in front of someone they could just fucking yell for them to get out of the way. This way it's much more romantic tho so...

These lighting bolts are so... realistic

Three redshirts down, and one of their dads apparently helped Jim get into the academy? But why did the redshirt not get a better job than redshirt if his dad apparently had some sort of influence?

ah, the survivor's guilt mixed with the guilt of being in charge... getting real Hans Kammerlander vibes rn... (google his name and the Manaslu if you don't know what I mean)

"what do you want, Violins?" will now be my answer every time someone comments on my tone of voice

ohhhhh, this was the planet of the Aryans! (not sure if my being German makes it more or less ok for me to say that, but there isn't another word I know for blonde ppl with blue eyes who are conventionally attractive)

Spock just touched this man's chin. With his hand. Is that cheating?

"If you don't get those Warp engine's working you're fired" mate if he doesn't fix them he'll literally die. WHat are you, Hermione?

Baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me no more

"It makes me uncomfortable" bitch I bet, those things look scratchy as fuck

I like how half of them immediately got rid of these flower things <3 literally me

you tell him Spock! Humans literally are the minority!!!

"stawp fighting!!!! They've got the Enterprise!!!!" Jim I hear you but philosophical arguments are literally my only life source

sex. the word you're looking for is sex.

goddamnit they are all so uncomfortable talking about one of the most natural things in the world, idk if I should be amused or sad for them

awwwww, she calls him Pav!!! they are actually pretty cute

i feel gross watching the natives kiss and idk why

how to kill someone 101

oh really Spock. you telling me James Tiddies out Kirk wants to ignore the prime directive? wow. what a shocker. I am shocked.

Bones stepped on the belt of his tricoder when getting up and for some reason this is endearing to me

This is the third time Spock injured himself this episode and yet he is still capable of more sass than any squatch I know (get it? sasquatch. haha.

Damn, Martha can fight! Oh, and the last redshirt has died

awww hell nah, Scotty lost his job :(

awww hell yea, Scotty got his job back :)

They should give them actual sex ed wtf

the bickering at the end is always my favourite thing <3<3<3<3<3<3 10/10 will watch again (and again and again and again)

[hummiscellanea]

My Unpopular Opinion(s)

putting my life into my hands and talking about my opinion on the Shipping Discourse in star trek. (specifically SNW) man i wish that means "which ship is the coolest" and not what it actually is about

I don't ship Kirk and Spock. (K/S, spirk, whatever you want to call it)

Hey, I love TOS more than the next guy! And yes I know and respect the ship's history. It was groundbreaking. It invented slash. I completely understand why people ship it, and why it's so important to so many people. I get the appeal; I'm definitely not saying that it's wrong to ship it. But I am a bit annoyed with the lack of other readings on here.

Like guys, Kirk has relationships with women. That doesn't preclude being attracted to men, mind you! But let's not forget that. Here's some examples: Edith Keeler, Miramanee, Carol Marcus. He had a child with two of those! (This isn't an argument against the K/S ship. It's just that I see people say that it's wrong for SNW Kirk to be attracted to women, which bothers me.) Also I happen to like La'an and Kirk in SNW; it's a rare romantic relationship that I found myself invested in. (La'an my beloved <3) I don't think it should be a long-term endgame thing, I just think it's cute.

Anyway. Spock. Spock, Spock, Spock. It seems that everyone (or at least every TOS girlie) has very charged, very personal feelings about Spock. Including me. (the blorbo of all time <3 <3 <3) He's a rare ace icon (with an asterisk of course). And that's canon (see TMP novelization, the famous Roddenberry Footnote). I also see him as an aro icon, though that one is definitely up for debate. My aro headcanon is the main reason I don't ship K/S, and it's not an uncommon take! I'll leave it at that for my Spock Opinions for now.

Kirk and Spock's dynamic is so so important to me. They are so (imagine a page full of heart emojis)!! It can be hard to put it into words. They're soulmates, besties for the ages. A bond that transcends space and time. Then your first best destiny is to be by my side! Let me help!! The Motion Picture, which is literally about the power of love!!! How could I ever be normal about them? And if you say that a romantic relationship is the only explanation for their closeness then I will vaporize you with my laser eyes.

Some of the SNW K/S discourse is just odd to me. Why do you want them to be together anyway (besides as a nod to the pairing's historical importance both in and out of Star Trek)? It's famously a slow burn! It takes many years and movies to develop it, which is part of what makes it so great in my opinion. Why would you want to undermine that to do a love-at-first-sight type story? That would only cheapen the characters. Do we really want a The Motion Picture type plot, but years earlier and not as good? (TMP my beloved <3)

As for the Spapel and T'pring discourse? yeeeeeeeah, still not touching that. I do have opinions, though.

One thing the K/S shippers are saying a lot about SNW is that not acknowledging K/S is queerbaiting, or at least being painfully straight. I'm not sure I'm qualified to decide if it is or not. I guess I can see that criticism, especially when compared to Discovery. Eh, but it could also be worse?

Man I hate shipping discourse. And shipping culture. To quote Sonic:

...besides, we all know who's the real love of James T. Kirk's life. She's a tall lady named Enterprise.

[itsawritblr]

Things I like/love that have been ruined in canon.

In no particular order:

Star Trek: I was so-so about all the TV sequels/prequels (liked DS9 for about a minute).  But the movies . . .  Fuck Amok Time, they gave us Horny On Demand Spock and Kirk sexually harassing females across the universe.

Star Wars:  Jar Jar Binks.  Need I say more?

Doctor Who:  I really enjoyed the original series, even though it fell apart in the last years.  The remake made The Doctor a romantic/sexual being.  No no fucking goddamn no.

Supernatural:  After Season 5, took everything everybody loved and broke it, killed off favorite characters for Shock Value, then faked bringing them back just to kill them again.  Really really hated its fans.

Sherlock: Second season became super self-conscious that it was A Hit, started mocking women because being written by a gay man and a misogynist.  Really really hated its fans, then whined when fans stopped watching and the series was canceled.

Sleepy Hollow:  Was just staring to get into the Ship when its creators literally verbally attacked fans on Twitter, then intentionally destroyed Ichabod/Abby by killing off Abby. Really REALLY hated its fans.

American Auto: Started out clever and funny like The Office, in Season 2 devolved into 4th grade potty humor.

Clarice:  Gave it a chance even though there was no Lecter.  First two episodes showed promise, then made Clarice a whiny, weak character, then added an incredibly ahistoric 1991 trans “women” FBI agent -- at a time when in reality gay male agents were fired for fear of their being blackmailed -- who literally yelled at Clarice, and Clarice took it.  Thankfully its ratings plummeted after that and it was canceled.

Grantchester: Watched it for Geordie, then they had Geordie cheat on his wife.  NOPE.

Foyle’s War: The original series ended perfectly.  Then they dragged it from its grave and made a thin, forced series about the Cold War.  Bleh.

Inspector Lewis: The original series ended perfectly.  Then they dragged it from its grave, made Dr. Hobson clingy and whiny, ruined the dynamic of Lewis and Hathaway, ended it terribly.  Bastards.

Endeavor:  Revealed Thursday cheated on his wife during the War, then had Thursday accept bribe money, then the series finale . . .  Don’t ask.

Shetland:  Perez goes against his ethics and tries to fuck his close friend’s wife.  But especially they had Tosh r*ped.  Fuck that shit forever.

Once Upon a Time: First season was wonderful.  Second season iffy.  After that turned the series into a promotional vehicle for Disney movies.  Robert Carlyle gained 30 pounds, lost all energy, and mailed in his performance.  They tried to end it well, but brought it back rebooted and godawful, especially by killing off Belle.  Truly, truly awful.

MCU:  I loved the first Thor, first Captain America, first Avengers, the Ironman trilogy, and especially Spider-man: Homecoming.  Then it all went to fucking hell.  Don’t get me started.

Miraculous Ladybug: From season 3 on, its creators took it from being a fun, exciting, sweet, enjoyable superhero story to trying to turn it into part of the MCU.  Fucking do NOT get me started about what they did to my man Gabriel.

Possible Future Canon Ruin:

Father Brown:  3 cast members have left the series and been replaced.  Haven’t seen Season 10 yet, but I have a bad feeling about this . . .

Addendum:

Rewatched Seasons 7 & 8 of Foyle’s War and actually liked them quite a lot.  Me having a crush on Tim McMullan helped.

Have seen Season 10 of Father Brown . . .

The directing is slow and stiff.  There’s no dynamic worth mentioning among the new characters.  All the episodes felt like dress rehearsals, not polished performances.