#Jiang YanLi

[wintertundra-art]

wip

[qiu-yan]

also i just thought of things i wanted to add (sorry to reblog myself 😔)

criticism of jiang cheng wrt wei wuxian specifically usually comes down to critique of the following two choices:

jiang cheng not having yunmeng jiang stand by wei wuxian after wei wuxian broke the wen remnants out of the qiongqi pass labor camp, and instead having wei wuxian be formally expelled from yunmeng jiang.

jiang cheng leading the first siege of the burial mounds, which resulted in the deaths of wei wuxian and the wen remnants.

i do think the second one is jiang cheng's single greatest wrongdoing, so i won't try to defend it here. but, since the original post kind of folds these two criticisms into one chunk of commentary, i will comment on the first category.

first: in the original post, op states that "family supports family" and that family members should have "loyalty to each other;" op then criticizes jiang cheng's choice of (seemingly to me, based on context) not standing by wei wuxian, after the latter insisted on defending the wen remnants, as a breach of this familial obligation. however, to me, it seems a bit strange to claim that only jiang cheng is guilty of failing to be loyal to his family - when, as pallas says, having wei wuxian leave the yunmeng jiang sect was originally wei wuxian's idea, specifically because wei wuxian was unwilling to give up on the wen remnants. to recap, jiang cheng says "if you insist on protecting them, then i cannot protect you" - an accurate description of the limits of jiang cheng's political power at the moment - and in response, wei wuxian says "then cast me aside." wei wuxian himself said that he'd rather leave the jiang sect than give up on the wen remnants.

to put it more abstractly: suppose that A and B are family and are part of the same social unit, which needs work from both of them in order to rebuild from a recent disaster. one day, A says that they want to embark on a certain course of heroism in order to adhere to their moral principles. when B points out to A that A will not be able to do this without putting the entire family unit in danger, A insists on adhering to this moral venture and leaving the family unit to do so, even though B would rather A give up on the heroism and return to the family unit instead. and then, when A says they will leave, B accepts A's departure instead of trying to force A to stay.

in this case, who first violated the obligation for family to stay loyal to family? is it not disingenuous to say that only B violated this obligation, given that it was A who insisted on adhering to this course of action at all costs, even if it entailed leaving the family? we can very well argue that B failed their familial obligations by not insisting A stay in the family and pursue their moral venture at the same time (putting the entire family and social unit in danger and violating A's own wishes in the process), but has A not also failed their familial obligations by putting their moral venture above remaining tied to the family? in saying "i will do this no matter what, and if i cannot do this as part of your family, then i will leave your family," has A not put a different calling above their obligation to be loyal to family?

in choosing to not stand with wei wuxian after the latter insisted on protecting the wen remnants at all costs, jiang cheng put his duty to his people above his familial obligation to wei wuxian. and, in choosing to leave yunmeng jiang in order to protect the wen, rather than giving up on the wen to return to yunmeng jiang, wei wuxian put his moral obligation to the wen remnants above both his familial obligations to jiang cheng and his duties to the sect that raised him. both parties had some other obligation that they put above their familial bond with each other. it is incorrect to say that only one of the two abandoned their brotherhood.

two: jiang yanli. op says that jiang yanli "would have and even did [s]tand by Wei Wuxian even in her last moments." it is certainly true that jiang yanli dies shielding wei wuxian from harm, even though wei wuxian very much did kill her husband (not sure what "supposedly" is doing there, given that he very much did do the deed). however, as pallas says, it is also true that jiang yanli dies with highly mixed feelings. the text directly states that she is unable to say that she forgave him, yet also unable to say the opposite - therefore, to paint jiang yanli's feelings towards wei wuxian in her last moments as unilaterally loyal and supportive is a massive oversimplification. and, given that this female character's entire arc is already written more to enhance the male protagonist's story than for her own sake, the fact that her reasonably complex feelings are getting even further flattened for the sake of this male protagonist definitely makes me raise my eyebrows.

there is another point to consider, though, if one wishes to discuss jiang yanli in the context of "familial loyalty to wei wuxian." i won't get into how wei wuxian himself horrifically failed his own familial obligations towards jiang yanli, his shijie, by manslaughtering her beloved husband, as pallas has discussed that topic above already. instead, i think what we should discuss is how jiang yanli felt about wei wuxian's expulsion from yunmeng jiang.

jiang yanli knows about wei wuxian's expulsion from the yunmeng jiang sect. this is obviously true. it is most likely that jiang cheng conveyed a full and accurate description of events to her as soon as he returned from the burial mounds; however, even if he did not do so, she still would have seen the actual expulsion three days later.

jiang yanli cares deeply for both jiang cheng and wei wuxian, and considers them both to be her family.

not once in the text does jiang yanli ever say or even imply anything along the lines of "yunmeng jiang should not have expelled wei wuxian."

not once in the text does there ever seem to be any major friction between jiang cheng and jiang yanli on the topic of wei wuxian's expulsion from yunmeng jiang.

honestly, the fact that jiang yanli simply never offers any opinions about wei wuxian's expulsion is highly unusual, and is probably best explained doylistically by the fact that MXTX simply does not care that much about her female characters. from a watsonian point of view, however, the fact that jiang yanli never says anything opposing wei wuxian's expulsion, or even hints that she might disagree with that course of action, indicates to me that jiang yanli also thought that wei wuxian being expelled from yunmeng jiang was the best possible course of action.

why? because, if she did oppose this course of action, then - given jiang yanli's importance to this part of the plot - the story would have said so. and yet, the story does not. and the only other explanation for the text of MDZS not including any instance of jiang yanli opposing wei wuxian's expulsion - that her opposition happened entirely off-screen and we just Never Saw It, yet we're somehow meant to infer said opposition from her anyways - is so stupid that, were it really were the case, it would make MXTX a really bad writer.

therefore, jiang yanli really is not as diametrically opposed to jiang cheng as a lot of the discourse (not necessarily op's post) suggests. the two jiang siblings are not polar opposites; you can't unilaterally say that one of them is "the good one" (because she was nice to wei wuxian) and the other one is "the bad one" (because he was mean to wei wuxian). everything suggests that both jiang cheng and jiang yanli thought that wei wuxian being expelled from yunmeng jiang because he would not give up on the wen remnants was the best possible course of action.

thu, if jiang cheng is guilty because he did not have yunmeng jiang support wei wuxian and the wen remnants, then jiang yanli is also guilty. perhaps not guilty to the same degree, given that only one of them is the sect leader, but it still means that she condoned a course of action the accuser considers "incorrect." so, if the accuser is to blame jiang cheng, then they should logically also blame jiang yanli.

or you could blame neither of them. after all, in choosing to protect the wen remnants at all costs, even though doing so entails severing his ties to the jiang siblings and alienating the sect that jiang yanli is to marry into, wei wuxian is also failing his familial obligations to jiang yanli.

not the last of his failures towards jiang yanli either, as the rest of canon shows.

I love JC a lot I really do.

But I think the main reason he gets criticism for the wen situation with the Jin's and not others like NMJ and LXC for not supporting that idea because it's not about the morality.

It's about Wei Wuxian. It's about the family supports family or the loyalty to each other if you would.

Like sure he was a young sect leader with a lot of new responsibilities in the middle of the rest more mature with a good backing but there was also Jiang Yanli who would have and even did Stand by Wei Wuxian even in her last moments, even though she was married into the Jin's, even though WWX has supposedly just killed her husband and the father of her child.

But he failed where he failed okay.

He managed to protect something (the sect) but it cost him the last bit of his family.

He could have done something right, at least told Jin Ling the truth about his mother who died protecting her little brother instead of being his victim.

He had his reasons for what he did but it still doesn't make those actions any more likable.

[bishy437]

what’s left behind

[pakhnokh]

The Bride who treated a Corpse to Soup

[luminouslumity]

And in MXTX-related news, this is as sweet as it is incredibly cruel! Ow, my heart!

[notoisstrange]

Little brothers to keep Shijie company (an au where nothing bad ever happens to them 💔)

[soursoppi]

plucked by the lotus picker

[junodoom]

swordtember day 5: edible

[clionadraws]

Yanli I think of u all of the time 🩷💫🌸✨️

[ineffectualdemon]

To understand Jiang Cheng is to understand that he's not the golden child or the scapegoat

Wei Wuxian is both of those

Wei Wuxian is Jiang Fengmian's Golden Child and Madame Yu's Scapegoat

But to both of them Jiang Cheng is simply the Failure

He isn't the son that his father wanted and he's not the son that his mother wanted

He can not live up to either of their wishes or desires because of who he is inherently. He is not charming or naturally exceptionally talented

He is smart and capable but he's not smart and capable enough for them

He puts in pure graft and commitment and gets only looked over or told how little it matters

It's not that he's to blame for anyone else's failures, it's that his accomplishments are meaningless and forgettable just like he is

And if you can't be loved for who you are a part of you wants to be hated because at least that means someone gives a damn

You wear your anger on your skin because it does hurt so much when you are rejected and it makes it harder to forget you

And god how badly you wish to at least be remembered

And you love your sibling who is both on a pedestal but being flogged for the honor

And you want to help and protect them but you also resent them

And they also resent you. At least a little

Because you have time without eyes on you

Time without constant scrutiny over your every action

Which is why the thing that holds the siblings together is the only parent they ever knew who truly loved them unconditionally: Jiang Yanli

Who of course was smothered under that love

[yutaan]

Jiang Yanli doodle! 🌸

[soupysundae]

🪷🪷🪷🪷🪷

[bishy437]

"Don't talk to me or my child ever again"

[mentallyimwrappedinablanket]

The Jiang siblings come to an unfortunate realization

[sandushengshou]

The Untamed | Episode 24

[notoisstrange]

Jin Furen (Shijie) 🪷🦚