#I'm not trying to be antagonistic

[terrestrialnoob]

The glasses thing is a meme reference and why it was in the tags. I didn't think it was important enough to put in the post itself, it's a joke that means "you can't just ignore the things you don't like", like how "pissing on the poor" means someone completely missed the point of your post.

Why is Peter Gaffney metaphorically dead? Created by Elmer "Butch" Hartman, Steve Marmel, AND Peter Gaffney. Gaffney who was a writer on all Danny Phantom episodes except Phantom Planet. Not to mention the other 20 or so people who wrote and directed the show, and of course the animators did a lot too. You can't take all the work of all those people and credit it to two guys so you can blame everything you hate on one and everything you love on the other. This is not directly at you, everyone brings up Hartman and Marmel on this post, but not Gaffney, the one who doesn't post on social media. Bad people can make good art and we just have to make peace with that.

I like fanon better, too. But, in canon Danny never died. That's all I'm saying.

The ghost DNA is a major plot point in the Dani episodes! It's part of why she's unstable she has Danny's human DNA and his ghost DNA but needs a third mid-morph DNA to stabilize, theoretically. It could be too late to use that for her since the mid-morph DNA is specifically what Vlad wants for the Prime clone, and Dani gets stabilized by a power-up serum later.

And I think the spirder-man parallel stands. Science accident alters kid's DNA and gives him super powers. They're different powers sets, sure, but in-universe lore has them working the same way. (And, there's a difference between internal lore and external lore. In-universe lore is how the magic system works by extending chi into the world around you while out of universe lore is the magic system based off the four classical elements)

Y'all know Danny isn't canonically a ghost, yeah? That his "half-ghost"/halfa status is because he got ghost DNA infused into him? That he didn't die/half-die and become a ghost/half-ghost and just has ghost-like powers? He's supposed to be a Spider-Man rip off, Danny's not a ghost the way Peter's not a spider. Danny is a Ghost Mutant: mutated to be ghost-like, the way Peter is a Spider Mutant: mutated to be spider-like.

Canonically anyway. Sure, I personally like the interpretation and angst of Schrodinger's Boy, alive and dead at the same time, but it is fanon and not canon.

[howtodisappearcompletelyand]

20/10 stars little guy

[tin-can-iron-man]

I'm just gonna say it again real quick:

Yes!! Iron Man is a tragedy! It has and always has been since the very first appearance in 1963 which describes itself, Tony's life, and legacy, as such.

Tony causes most of his issues himself, he is his biggest villain, a majority of his rogues gallery are caricatures of the worst versions of himself brought to life (when they're not just being racist cuz...60s...). The worst thing about being Tony Stark is that he can't stop being Tony Stark (he tried!!) That is the point.

The majority of pain Tony goes through, is pain he inflicts on himself, whether intentionally or inadvertently. That is the point.

He is not A villain (at least. Not usually. There are...some rough moments and arcs that are. Not great. As there is with any character as old as he is). But he is his own main antagonist.

[legionofpotatoes]

everyone hates crunch and everyone wants the new dragon age to have 4x the scope with 8x the quantum content

[transingthoseformers]

But what if the autobot and decepticon truce in Earthspark had worked out? (Or at least it ending isn't brushed off as "decepticons doing what they're bound to do")

I say this because I want to see the bots and cons working together (somewhat) to deal with Situations that pop up in s2

But I especially want to think about how Starscream would interact with the human government as the official representative of the decepticons now

[imminent-danger-came]

MK: "We don't have any other option! We have to trust him." Red Son: "*laughs* Great speech noodle boy! Super motivational!"

(2x00 Revenge of the Spider Queen)

-

Red Son: "*laughs maniacally* I, Red Son, will bind the powers of the celestial artifacts with Spider Queen's own venom, save my father, and reforge the world as I see fit! *more maniacal laughter*" Mei: "Red Son that was amazing!" MK: "Such a good hero speech!" Red Son: "-Villain speech! And perhaps my best of all time!"

(2x00 Revenge of the Spider Queen)

-

Lady Bone Demon: "Save your hero speech child—I've existed long enough to know when it's over. MK: "You still think that the universe really wants anything, from any of us?" Lady Bone Demon: "Don't you?"

(3x14 Destiny Fulfilled)

-

Sun Wukong: “ENOUGH! I’ve never let anyone dictate my destiny in the past, and I’m not about to start now. None of us are! We can’t change who we were yesterday or in a past life, or a hundred life times ago! We live with the choices we’ve made, for what matter is the choices we make RIGHT NOW! Only we decide who we are and what we do with the power we have!”

Curse MK: "Nice hero speech bud! But I know better—deep in your hearts, you don't believe a word of that."

(4x07 Pitiful Creatures)

-

Hero speech.

[clockwork-krow]

I will never find it NOT funny how one of the sideplots in DR season 2 is literally just. some pathetic 22 year old guy having beef with a petty 15 year old girl over who gets to be second-in-command of their grumpy furry boss

[iamumbra195]

Don't you love it when you get back into your childhood hyper-fixation that you remember very fondly as an adult and realize how fucking depressing the actual story is now that you have the capacity to understand it beyond cool fighting and characters, humor, and awesome friendships?

[total-drama-brainrot]

Season two's overall treatment of Caleb, and the last minute addition of how much he covets honesty, makes me wonder what an actual antagonist/villain Caleb would play out like.

Because an honest antagonist sounds like such a fun deviation from the norm. You very rarely see a villain who doesn't have to lie/cheat/manipulate their way through their respective plots, so having a guy who's so dead set on honouring his moral code to the point that it's detrimental to his relationships (and also potentially his place in the competition) would be a fun alley of thought to go down.

At the end of the day, the only thing that differentiates a total drama 'antagonist' from any other competitor is their ability to generate conflict and have others eliminated. Caleb's already shown a penchant for conflict generation through his poor communication skills (Priyaleb miscommunication plot, pretty much every interaction he has in s2e11) and tendency to prioritise his place in the competition (the deal he makes with Julia in s2e10), so it wouldn't be too hard for him to turn the tables on someone and have them eliminated.

I'm thinking something along the lines of him sparking a rivalry between himself and someone like Julia, then having them wager their votes/safety on a challenge or bet, which ultimately leads to the other being voted out without Caleb having to do anything dishonest or underhanded. Sticking by his deep-rooted morality whilst also tilting the game in his favour.

Because I think an antagonist who's threatening just by value of being good at the game is a lot scarier than someone who succeeds through trickery and subterfuge. He's playing by the rules, he's just playing better.

[randomnameless]

Genuine question, not trying to start a fight, why do you get so upset about gods and churches being presented in a negative light in fictional works?

No pbs!

I guess it's a mix of being too common, too forced and having, in general, the cast use common tropish arguments to fight /defeat them.

I rant a lot about this game, but take TS where we have three sort of factions opposing each other, and each are supposed to suck. Who is the faction who never receives any "positive traits" or "pet the dog" moment?

The game force fed us a scene where an Aesfroti soldier - when Aesfrost is depicted as a highly militarised nation with a cult of personality towards their current ruler, that invaded the protag's home and slaughtered several civilians and NPCs in the process - say goodbye to his wife and kids before going to "war" to defend his land against, well, the protags who are invading it to kill their warmongering leader.

As force-fed as this scene was, it, I believe at least, tried to tell us that even the Aesfrosti who pillaged villages and killed their inhabitants are humans, and care about their loved ones, sure it's corny, but it's all about not deshumanising any party.

When we attack Hyzante? Niet, zilch, nothing. No similar scene where random soldiers, or NPCs, worry about what is going on and if they're going to die when their wall has been breached. They just, don't exist in this context.

I think the cherry on the cake is the Golden Route scene, where, apparently, nationalists Aesfrosti decide to turn back against their ultra charismatic leader because, uh, he "lied" when he declared the war and used a false pretense, so the soldiers and people who were butchering babies and invading a city where people were preparing a marriage apparently now have morals and rebel.

There's no similar scene for Hyzante when the cast reveals that the teachings of their Goddess were made up and salt wasn't exclusively given to them by divine intervention, because rock salt exists everywhere. Sure it would be a bit weird and forced that people thinking they're chosen ones and looking down on everyone else suddenly, hm, don't break down when their entire system of belief is shattered, but hey, if the Aesfrostian Gregor can have morals after washing his hands of all this Glenbrookian blood, why shouldn't religious npc #55 not make the same heel face turn?

And then, we have the slavery/human experimentation plot - in general, when TS tries to give nuance, they more or less explain/justify why something that "sucks" is done, it's basically Silvio's character.

Aesfrost' Gustadolph manages to push his "freedom" mentality because his land is a harsh place where people are desperate to survive, salt smuggling is reprehensible, but it's the only way to give some to the ones who cannot afford it. Of course is everyone is free, no one is because, as Gustadolph puts it, they're basically free to die for his ambitions.

Hyzante? Follows a racist creed where Rozellians have to pay for some great sin, and are slaved away in a lake to recover salt until they die. It's, later, justified by Hyzante wanting to keep its salt monopoly else they don't have anything, and wanting to curb down the Rozelle people because they know about the exitence of rock salt (and I guess getting free workers to harvest salt from the lake + having state enemies make his own population docile/not willing to rebel ?).

And then, we have the human experimentations, that are just done for, uhh, Idore's lol. When Hyzante is known for its "advanced medicine" and we could have had the usual dilemna of, idk, having those humans experimentations used to develop this medicine that is reknown in the world (idk, sacrificing a Rozellian to save someone else's life?) - it's not the angle the devs picked. Rozellians are sacrificed to power up an idol, Idore wants to control the world through his idol and soft power (compared to Gustadolph's hard power) and manipulates his people (just like Gustadolph) to do so.

The two are very similar, but who is the final boss? Complete with a transformation in an eldritch monster? The war-mongering imperialist or the jaded old man who is leading de facto a religion?

Hopefully there's the entire "human experimentations for no other purpose than the lols" to settle them apart.

---

I recently watched Dune, and even if I have some issues with the adaptation, the Bene Gesserit isn't portrayed as "comically" evil-er than the Harkonen Empire, I reckon the comparison isn't adequate, because Dune is multi book series when I'm mostly talking about video games.

Symphonia's church of Martel is a font for the Big Bad (tm) to put in motion his nefarious plans, and yet, through the game, we see how random clergymen use their, uh, religious buildings to help people around. Ultimately Martel herself is reincarnated through plot device and tells the big bad to stop being an ass and the story is less about "church and gods evil" but "big bad distorts Martel/church's teachings and role for his plans because he has a tragic backstory"

(but then Symphonia ends with the biggest whitewashing from every Tales I've played for its big bad so I'll stop talking about it because otherwise I'm going to be salty).

Abyss' church is more or less the same thing - the Church is supposed to help people deal with the fact their verse has "predestination stones" where the future is already written, and in the course of the game, we see how it has several factions and one opposes the group (who has the pope as a NPC!) - but it's not a story about "gods bad church BaD".

I remember playing Suikoden Tierkreis a long time ago, and while the game seemed to go through familiar "church bad gods bad" route and we end with defeating a god-like entity... I pretty much loved the twist that, in a game that relied on alternate dimensions/universe, the god-like entity was actually the protag if he made different choices!

In those games, if you fight a religious body and someone pretending to be a God or what not - it's not because people fight against an eldritch creature who wants world domination and to erase puny insects, or is the reason why everything goes wrong, but because, at the end, the conflict/fight is ultimately caused by someone, generally a human or at least a non "god like" entity, wanting to destroy the world.

I don't remember if FE was my first JRPG series or not, but I always liked the idea that if the world is doomed in those games and the heroes must prevent said doom, it's not because a god-like being wants to destroy the world, but because people, humans/randoms are the most shitty ones out there.

---

As for the "tropes" often used to deride fictional churchs and religious people, well, I will again point to TS - which did a splendid job in the Benedict Route where you smash Hyzante after allying with Aesfrost.

There's one battle where out protags diss Hyzantese because they worship a goddess and have no free will, listening to Her teachings and Her says (the traditional "religious people have no free will and listen to their churches who tell them how to think!") - which is immediately countered by one of those Hyzantese characters asking Serenor if he's not the same, but instead of blindly listening to a Goddess, blindly follows Benedict. And it ends with the final chapter title referencing automatons/puppets : who is that title talking about ? The fake "idol" Idore created, or the fake "king" Benedict created?

Anyways, the usual "religions people have no free will because their church/religion tells them how to think" trope reeks of r/atheism and the double standard - bar in this route of TS, but I guess, in TS itself in the Roland route! - is never called out, blindly following a charismatic leader is okay, as long as charismatic leader isn't religious?

Regardless of my IRL thoughts about religion, usually those tropes are presented as a "gotcha!" when they are... not at all, but the games/books leave it at that and we're supposed to roll with it.

I'd say it's lazy writing or, as we saw in Naruto, a quick way to end a story without having to dwelve in characters and their motivations : "you're a god/alien/other being and you're bad, so let us do what we want!" - end of the story.

Hopefully some fillers and to an extent, Boruto gave her more meat bar being the 11 hour villain we had to defeat quick and who manipulated the previous sad'n'lonely antagonists - but it still felt rich from Naruto, known for his famous "talk no jutsu" and trying to understand people he's fighting against, to drop the ball with Kaguya, calling her pure malice and ending with some "let us live the way we want" to wrap up the plot so he can wrestle with his boyfriend later on.

In the end, we often end up with "religion bad bcs the big bad manipulates people through it", as if those mangas/animes/vg never have other examples of charismatic people not using religion to manipulate their randoms/people or "gods bad they should let humans do what they want" when we've read/seen/played through various, uh, really fucked-up shit humans did - but on their own! and ultimately, but it's more in fandom spaces, with have Projection 101.

TLDR : church/religion/gods are too often used in those works as the ultimate scapegoat to either wrap up a story in a rushed ending or to pretend to have "nuance" but still have a common enemy where all the "nuanced" characters can grow/be whitewashed and side together against that "common enemy".

Just like in all things I guess, I prefer when something isn't painted as purely negative and all of the positive traits are erased because there is a need for a perfect scapegoat - sure, bring out too much "nuance" and writing/designing a game/manga/anime becomes harder because there's no "clear cut" antagonist, and yet, the one who always gets fucked in this scenario is the religious/church side.

Want a generic stock villain who will destroy the world so the heroes have to fight against them? Just create a "religion" in your setting, and have the big bad either hell bent on resurrecting Chtullu to destroy the world because Chtullu BaD, or have them be the most corrupt piece of shit who manipulate everything in the shadows, so the rest of the world, even the ones who slaughter others bcs they feel like they must start a war, can be whitewashed at the end.

I mean, there's a saying about diverting attention from a fire by starting a bigger one near, or a trope of "aliens made them do it" : who cares if Madara started a continental war and targeted a village full of random civilians he swore to protect because he lost the elections? Did y'know he was manipulated by a woman, I mean, an eldritch thing created by a woman, regarded as a God, who ultimately wanted to get out of her fridge to kill everyone?

Roland must get over his hatred for Aesfrost for barging in his kindgom and killing hundred of his people while they were preparing for a wedding, because hey, Idore is evil and plans on ruling the world through his sham religion!

I'll forever be salty at TS for not giving Kamsell the occasion to rise against Idore, or not even have minor NPCs get the same treatment as Sycras suddenly going all "u lied to me gustadolph so i won't listen to u anymore + sad goodbyes to my wife'n'kids".

Extremism of all kinds can lead to wars/tragedy/fucked up shit - Sure I don't want to get my History lessons in video game medium when I play lol, but what I really don't like is how it feels like depicting "they're extremists because they're religious" feels like the default/easy answer : want a bunch of brainwashed people the heroes must fight against and can't talk no justu their way out of this fight/will fight without looking too BaD? Depict those people as "misguided" members of a corrupt church/believers of a religion, no one will givea fig. If they are instead supporters of a charismatic leader who throws them through the meatgrinder to further their goals? Well, there's no automatic loyalty so either you have to show/depict it on screen, else it can be challenged at key points to demonstrate how those people - who follow the charismatic leader - aren't completely "mindlessly listening to their leader" or how their leader "isn't that bad after all".

[colorisbyshe]

i hate a bitch who says "oh if we have to cancel every artist who is problematic there'd be no art left" because no one is ever saying that.

people ARE saying there are things so heinous, within the text of the art or within the lived experience of the artist, that they make the art no longer worth it. there are acts so intolerable it renders the art obsolete. and one of those acts is the artist using the art to hurt other people--whether that be through using the art to instigate acts of violence or through using the funds and platform given by the art to instigate acts of violence (this includes legislature! legislature can be violence!)

every person has a different scale of "worth it" where you balancing out the flaws of a piece of art/its creators and the joys that art/creator brings. this is normal. different people have different things they can tolerate, different people consider different things to be "redeeming enough," but actively using the art or the power rendered from said art to deliberately hurt vulnerable people needs to be as universal a red line as possible.

and it needs to be understood that supporting the artist isn't just a monetary thing. when you publicly write fic, when you post fanart, when you coo over characters and theories and plotlines, you are still supporting the artist.

"no, the art is OURS now" "actually hatsune miku wrote these books, not she who shall not be named" "i'm not spending money on it, so it's like we're stealing the art from the artist!"

nope! you're still supporting the artist when you publicly support the art. no deluded quibbling will save you. you do need to either entirely drop this art OR if you are so addicted to it, you need to learn how to consume and celebrate it in shame, in the privacy of your own thoughts and home and not publicly, where every post and celebrate is another brick in the foundation of the artists legacy.

"oh but the community makes me feel safe!"

a community supporting the legacy and power of an abuser of power cannot keep you safe, has no interest in keeping you safe. it keeps you entertained, it makes you feel less lonely, and that's it. either the community pivots or find a new one. you're on the fucking internet, there's plenty of new spaces to find.

tolerating the intolerable does, in fact, say something about your character. and we need to just be frank about that.

[thebroccolination]

SERIES VS. COUPLE

Do your favorite BL couples match your favorite BL series?

I feel like this must be a phenomenon, so I want to see what other people's lists look like. \:D/

These are mine. I'm very proud.

Voila:

TOP 3 SERIES: Be My Favorite, SOTUS, Until We Meet Again TOP 3 COUPLES: WinTeam, KongArt, KawiPi

Because, like, we judge series and character based on different criteria, right?

Be My Favorite shot to the top of my list by episode eight last year because the writing was immaculate (Waa took extra time to really hone the script, and it shows!), the directing is phenomenal (the behind-the-scenes footage and interviews show how much influence Waa had in bringing out the best in everyone), the premise is right up my alley (subjective, but y'know, favorites lists are subjective by nature), etc. etc. etc. It's just all-around an incredibly well-crafted show, so it's sitting pretty cozy up there at the top.

But!

When I think about couples, WinTeam and KongArt are firmly first and second.

WinTeam have been my favorite BL couple from Day ONE, and no one's even remotely challenged them since even though Between Us is somewhere around #5 or #6 on my list (depending on how much of the series I choose to selectively forget).

And KongArt? We saw them grow from age 19/20 to, like, 26/27? (I haven't math'd the years in a while, but the Our Skyy episode is definitely set during their late twenties.) Experiencing that much development for a BL couple is rare, and their relationship is portayed so beautifully.

So, y'know, both lists are completely subjective and don't always have anything to do with quality or whatever. WinTeam are my favorite couple because Win's my favorite character archetype and Team is a sassy traumatized gremlin, and Be My Favorite is my favorite series because holy shit I love gay time travel and it's the only series I've seen that's treated leitmotifs seriously.

SO TELL ME YOURS. \:D/

[fountainpenguin]

Oh gosh, "The Private and Intimate Life of the House" (also Great Comet) would make such a good Dale & Dev animatic... 😬

- "Yes, father; yes, father." - "And I have no friends, no, never go anywhere! Never invited..." - "I can hurt you... but I never, ever, ever, ever, would... No, Father- I love you, father!" - "And my fate slips past; is this all I'll make of my life? Will I never be happy?" - "Oh, that offends you, does it??" - "It's my money and I'll throw it where I want to! Not at you!" - Can't find glasses -> Panic and screaming - "And I dare to judge him... I disgust myself."

Hazel showing up for "A New Dev-elopment": I know they'll like me! Everyone has always liked me :)

Dale: I'm about to end this girl's whole career.

[legobiwan]

I think what makes Super Paper Mario stand out from many of the other plot-based Mario games is the motivation of the villains. (And no, I have not played all of them, but I'm familiar enough with the major titles to take a leap with this idea here).

You can write a laundry list of bad guys who have wanted to take over the world: Smithy and his gang want to reforge it (literally) in their image. The Shadow Queen wants to rule over a dark, new reality. Cackletta wants the Beanstar to fulfill her crazed wishes of destruction and power. Antasma wants command through the Dream World. Princess Shroob wants, and maybe even needs, to a degree, to siphon off the life force of the Toads in an interesting twist on an alien species' resource issues. In fact, one of the few antagonists we encounter who is not 100% fueled by power-lust is King Boo, who walks a tighrope between a pedestrian desire to rule reality via ghost army and a need to exact revenge, a tightrope he eventually falls off of decidedly in the direction of bloodthirsty vengeance directed specifically at Luigi. (He built, bought, or at least took over a whole-ass, multi-level hotel for this express purpose, not only luring Luigi into this trap, but roping his brother, his friend, and some random Toad acquaintances into the whole ordeal, as well - which is categorically insane and the topic of another rant for another day).

But Count Bleck doesn't want power for power's sake. He merely wants to use the Chaos Heart to end reality. There's no throne he covets, no crown he searches for - he desires only utter annihilation of everything, including himself. It's such a nihilistic goal and is so striking in comparison to the other enemies we encounter in and around the Mushroom Kingdom. Even Dimentio, whose initial plan was to seize power and reshape the world in his own corrupted image - even Dimentio chooses this final destruction over the promise of false power in the end.

How do you fight against someone who seeks death as their ultimate goal? It's such a depressing and fascinating concept in a Mario game, of all things, and is one of the reasons I personally see SPM as a kind of climax to the events of many of the preceding games, including SM: RPG and Thousand Year Door, which you can see as the "prequels," as it were, to SPM, if you look at these games as existing along a timeline that began with the creation of the Pixls and the Tribe of Ancients and ends with Bleck and Dimentio's defeat at the threshold of apocalypse.

Anyway, I'm starting to come up with some lore ideas that would possibly tie these three games together in a slight AU where the Bleck gang would show up in 7 Stars and Geno's role is extended past the restoration of the Star Road.

[shiawasekai]

This particular dialogue option has lived in my head rent free ever since I got it (back at the end of act 2), but let's say that Now That I Know it drives me feral.

[transingthoseformers]

Considering Earthspark’s approach to making the Decepticons not that evil, it would be the perfect opportunity to introduce some awful Autobots as antagonists.

I know it would be fucked but- Sunder and Froid were the first to come to mind 👁👁

(Also considering that some of the inspiration for Tarantulas came from Sins Of The Wreckers, Impactor 👀)

Iicr, there were definitely a few on my "what would be the most fucked up thing to add into earthspark" poll(s) with earthspark Sunder being what inspired me to make the poll and who i voted for (yes i voted on my own poll sue me, earthspark Tarn still won)

I also considered earthspark Pharma and earthspark Getaway, which a tfe Getaway would be ~interesting~ because it gives us the idea of some of the autobots splitting off in protest of Megatron defecting and teaming up against our protagonists

I've in general been thinking a lot about mnemosurgery / mnemosurgeons in relation to Earthspark, and I admit I too have thought about Sunder and Froid dropping in on earth (i imagine that Froid lures mecha to Sunder, kinda like what we saw in the series)

Pharma would be a crunchy situation because not only did he flip shit but his design is so interesting especially with the saws especially with the saws.

I've also been considering Trepan or a character like him... for reasons...

I had not even considered Impactor he's a lovely lovely choice to choose here, especially giving him deep history with Megatron.