#like because of what it is he always doomed the meta tragedy of it is so delicious

[wyrdle]

pitiful tragedy

A semi-continuation to my previous Ikutsuki and Ryoji comic, because i'm really wanting to share my blorbo (Ikutsuki) brainrot lol. Ikutsuki... the tragic pitiful antagonist you could've been if anyone bothered/cared enough about you in meta and in narrative lol.

[nyaagolor]

Howdy again, if it's the meta world VS "real world" thing in Umineko that's got you stumbling, don't worry. The assumption Ryukishi and co. seem to be going with is that the meta world IS real, and everyone's just chilling in a happy magic afterlife post-series (hence how episodes 7, 8, and 9 can even happen). The "07th Expansion All Characters Settings Collection" guidebook even has little epilogue blurbs for the cast, I can link you the translation hosted on the wiki if you want. It's still bleak in the sense that, yknow, everyone was dead from the start and the whole journey was more of a "coming to terms with what happened" kind of deal, but I think it works given stuff like the Divine Comedy references going on (if you read Battler as Dante and Beatrice as uh, Beatrice, a lot of Umineko'll start to make sense). The way I see the split is kind of an "as above, so below" type deal - while Tohya is down in the land of the living trying to write and solve things, Battler and friends really are up there fighting for their lives in purgatory, and the two reflect each other. Of course if that's not the problem you have, I'd love to hear what you're thinking!

hiii thank u for the ask!! (sorry this will be a Long One). I'll admit the meta world / real world stuff tripped me up at first, because looking at episodes 4 and 8 it really seemed to be implying that the metanarrative was the coping mechanism of Ange+Tohya and their way of pretending like their loved ones got the happy endings they didn't get in life rather than something we can actually assume happened. However extra content implies this is not the case, Ryukishi doesn't feel like the author who would do that especially after the thesis of Higurashi, and tbh even if he did there was enough plausible deniability that I would just imagine the Golden Land as real because You Gotta Cope Somehow. I love the "as above so below" vibes too, that's a fun new aspect to incorporate

My biggest hangup with the ending was basically in the idea that Sayo's narrative is fundamentally doomed. I was under the impression that the boat scene was implying that Sayo couldn't be happy even if she did escape due to the burden of the truth / her trauma. The positive framing of the catbox remaining at the bottom of the ocean initially struck me as a "her death is the happiest ending you can hope for because of how fucked up this all is" which is already a nihilistic narrative but downright unbearable when given to an intersex trans woman. I just don't vibe with hopeless trans narratives at all, and felt like I had misinterpreted smth bc Ryukishi isn't really a nihilistic guy. I'll admit I got a little soured to the narrative as a whole when I looked around online and saw people talking about how Sayo getting a happy ending was "missing the point".

After talking to @heartgold I realized that I had reversed the causality a bit. I was under the impression while playing that Ryukishi's insistence that "things had to happen this way" was him not just saying "oh everyone is already dead, the end result is already the same bc we're looking back at past events" but also "it doesn't matter what individual actions people took, it was always going to end in tragedy". I realize now it's more of a "this was totally preventable in so many ways but it already happened and now we have to grieve and cope in whatever way we can manage" kinda thing rather than a "this is fate and Sayo was screwed regardless", so I'm cool with that aspect. (Also I won't lie I prefer to imagine the boat scene as almost entirely metaphorical and more of a representation of the fragmentation of Battler's consciousness due to trauma in a similar way as what happened to Sayo, but that's neither here nor there)

The other part of it, and the thing I'm still really hung up on, is the question of whether or not the Golden Land is actually a happy ending and, if it is real, whether we're supposed to view it as a sorta perverse tragedy. On one hand, the alters are all implied to be separate people and they get their happy endings (yay), but on the other hand that doesn't really fix nor address Sayo feeling like she needs romantic love to be fulfilled (also The Incest(?) I'm genuinely unsure if the whole "alters becoming separate entities" negates the incest or not). The idea that Sayo was so far gone that even the fantasy created from her best memories does not allow her to truly be happy is just so insanely depressing to me, so I find myself stuck with that friction of wanting Sayo to have her prince and her white horse and her fantasy happy ending while also not wanting to downplay the truth. Having this little moral dilemma feels like the point of Episode 8 and really gets us into Tohya's head, which is awesome, but also gives me a lot of mixed feelings. Knowing that Sayo's truth literally has Beatrice married to Battler makes it even tougher bc I can't just use plausible deniability and say they're platonic bc they are uh. very much not as far as Ryukishi is concerned. I'm still working out my feelings on it, mostly because I desperately want Sayo to have everything she's ever wanted but also having to contend with the little part of me that's whispering "it can't and shouldn't happen and you know it". Alas. Umineko.

PS: thank you for telling me about the character booklet, that's SO cute!!! I love the little details about everyone and the cat-ear Bern is everything I've ever wanted

[leahnardo-da-veggie]

Fast Food - The False Oracles

Childhood, Adolescence, Travels

I knelt before the Oracles, eyes downcast. Six of them, there were, dressed in clothes too casual for their nature. Shrinking beneath their gaze, I felt rather like a child before my elders. 

“One has come to seek counsel, great Oracles,” I whispered with reverence. “I have travelled far and wide. I have met the heroes of legend, watched them make history, and fought alongside them too. I have caused the death of my people, and the rise of another, and I live to tell the tale.”

One of them leaned forward. She was serpentine, with skin dry enough to be scaly, eyes red as rubies and long hair to match. “And what is it you seek, little trickster? Do you wish to change the past? To turn back time and make a different choice? To create a world in which you never had to make a choice in the first place?” The sharp edge of her smile told me there was a right answer, and a wrong one.

“None of them,” I replied, meeting her gaze. I had locked forearms with the first Spirit-Empress, bowed to the great Lich-Queen, danced with the God of Chaos himself. I could handle a crew of omniscient priestesses. “I did the right thing. Even if you gave me the option, I wouldn't have made any other choice.”

“Then why are you here?” It was a different Oracle this time, one hardly more than a girl-child, yet with a voice as deep and luscious as sin. “You have yet to answer our first question.”

I winced. “I-” What did I want? Why was I here? I had just needed to come back to Iraios, back to the place where I had met my first love, lost my first loss. “I must know: Could I have chosen better? Could I have done anything differently? Could I have saved them all?” 

I didn't know what I wanted to hear. It would have broken my heart either way, to know that my family and friends were doomed all along, or to know that I had failed to save their lives.

“And the sun will rise and the mountains will fall and all things will come to an end,” the sole male Oracle said. He studied me with steely eyes, devoid of soul. “What does it matter if they died now, or in a thousand years?” He paused, and I felt the room shift, as though something beyond my grasp had tilted reality. “I cannot stand you pathetic little woe-is-me trauma magnets. ‘Oh, my backstory is so sad! Oh, all my family died in a fire and that's why I'm evil!’ Oh, why don't I smack you right in your sad-little-meow-meow mouth, hmm?”

A smattering of laughter went up at that, the Oracle's clearly delighting in his condemnation of me. It stung, like a slap to the face, hurt and shock and shame. Then it burned like rage. 

“You can stuff your mouth up your ass, you little mud-suckler,” I snapped, not caring if I was picking a fight I couldn't win. “Those are real people you're talking about here, not some pawns in a game. They were my family, my tribe, my entire gods-accursed species! Everyone I shared a single drop of blood with is gone! And you dare to make light of it?”

“Don't you see? That's the point. Those were people with lives, with stories of their own, tossed aside like unwanted toys! She's playing with them, just as She toys with you, for Her cruelty knows no bounds.” It was the scarred one that spoke this time, her voice filled with bitter rage. “I weep for your loss, truly. We all do. Only a monster such as our Writer would dare sacrifice an entire people for character development.”

“I don't understand. You mean… Someone made this happen? This wasn't my fault?” The thought alone lifted a weight of guilt off my chest.

“Hah! It absolutely was your fault, you sad little queer representation,” the snake Oracle told me. “We merely mean that it was written from the very beginning. You would, will, and have always sacrificed your people to save humanity. That's the meta-tragedy of it. And for the record, Liam and I don't weep for you. We laugh, because this whole tale is a farcical comedy.”

“Me too,” the youthful Oracle added. “I mean: You're named after a Macdonald's breakfast. How much funnier can you get? Peak comedic relief.” She grinned. “Oh, but I do feel rather sorry for you.”

I felt myself twitch. Everyone had warned me that the Oracles spoke in tongues, but this? They might as well have been talking to someone else, with the way they went on. “What the hell is a Mac Donald? And was there someone pulling the strings, or was there not? Answer me!”

They ignored me. “You should pity it,” the scarred one told the others. “That accursed Writer thinks She can toy with us like this? Make us into her little dolls to break and bruise?” She spat on the floor. “Well, someday, we'll prove her wrong.”

“Don't be ridiculous, Gloria,” one of the remaining two said. She could have blended into any crowd, save for her solemnity, which could belong nowhere except in the highest of holy places. (Which, despite all evidence to the contrary, this was.) “We can't stop her any more than a character can reach through the pages and pull the quill that writes them away. All we mean, all we have are, all we have done is controlled by her.” What crossed her face was a river so deep I could have drowned all my troubles in it. 

“I am sorry, Hash. You are a Watcher, true and just. You have, will, and must witness many things, most of which will bleed your soul. And you have not, will not, must not allow it to kill the kindness in your heart.” She got up from her seat and stepped forward, pressing her hands against mine. “A long time ago, or perhaps no time at all, your progenitors sought my counsel. I warned them that you, specifically, would be the death of all their people.” she paused, as though to let that sink in.

“But- The records said they didn't know which of us it was,” I protested. “The records just said one of their children!”

“That's the bit you're focusing on?!” Gloria shoved her companion aside. “What part of deliberately engineered tragedy by a callous bitch did you not get?” Her face was right up against mine, cleft lip trembling with rage.

“A tragedy is still a tragedy if it was deliberately set up. It is still grief-worthy if it were unpreventable. And even if the audience does not weep, I will,” the young one added. “Out of respect for a good tale, if nothing else.”

“That I can drink to,” snake-Oracle agreed. “But what about you, dear taglist, hmm?” She cleared her throat.

“Pardon me for the bad language you're about to experience, but here's a shout-out to: @coffeeangelinabox, @dorky-pals, @calliecwrites, @kaylinalexanderbooks, @shukei-jiwa

@thewingedbaron, @pluppsauthor, @cowboybrunch, @wylloblr, @possiblyeldritch

@tragedycoded, @finickyfelix, @urnumber1star, @ratedn, @ramwritblr

@vampirelover890, @possiblylisle, @illarian-rambling, @the-ellia-west

@evilgabe29, @glitched-dawn, @rivenantiqnerd, @dragonhoardesfandoms, @xenascribbles

@drchenquill, @everythingismadeofchaos, @owldwagitoutofyou, @dimitrakies, @beloveddawn-blog

@riveriafalll, @the-golden-comet, @rascaronii, @trippingpossum, @real-fragments

@unrepentantcheeseaddict, @the-inkwell-variable, @flock-from-the-void .” She finished her spiel with a wink at nobody in particular. 

They clapped with delight. “Oh, what creativity! How adorable. To turn such a solemn moment into a breaking of the fourth wall,” the steel Oracle commented. “But using Olive as your mouthpiece? Hardly appropriate. In the future, my hateful Writer, choose me for your meta-messages. After all, aren't I the odd one out?”

Oh, that was it. “This is ridiculous,” I told them, before they could continue their insane little game, or whatever it was. “You all are crazier than a clan of spirits in a crockpot. This isn't going to help me.” None of them stopped me as I got up.

I was halfway to the door when the final Oracle noticed me. Throughout our exchange, her eyes had been closed, her expression unchanging. She might as well have been a statue, carved of ivory and obsidian by the finest of stone-mages. Yet, as I passed her, she opened her eyes and revealed the vitality that lay beneath them. 

In the days before and after, I have encountered the Void That Swallows All, the God-huntress Who Brought the New World, and even Kurall, our Creator, herself. Even after all that, nothing, and I mean nothing, could ever compare to the power I felt at that moment.

The depths of her eyes superseded any Void. The graze of her fingers sparked a fire hotter than a thousand gods' immolations. The curve of her body could have birthed a thousand worlds. She was beautiful like my worst nightmare, and I fell to my knees before the True Oracle.

“WARBRINGER. WANDERER. WATCHER. YOU ARE MANY THINGS, CHILD, BUT A HERO FIRST AND FOREMOST AMONG THEM. I WILL NOT DISGRACE YOU BY CALLING YOU A FALSE NAME. NOR WILL I PRESUME AND CALL YOU BY YOUR TRUE ONE.” Her gaze burned my skin where it fell, and I fought the urge to shift into something small, to dodge the observation of something that could crush me so easily.

She seemed to understand, for she stroked my shoulder. “YOU WISH TO KNOW IF YOU COULD HAVE SAVED THEM?” 

I nodded.

“NO. IT WAS FORETOLD FROM THE BEGINNING. I FORETOLD IT MYSELF. IT HURTS YOU TO KNOW THAT.” She said it as a fact, not a question. 

“BUT YOU WILL FACE WORSE HURTS. YOU WILL KILL THE ONE YOU LOVE. YOU WILL SACRIFICE HIM FOR OTHER PEOPLES, LIKE YOU DID YOUR FAMILY. AND THIS TIME, YOU WILL KNOW THAT YOU CHOSE THE SACRIFICE. YOU WILL HAVE MADE THE ACTIVE DESCISION. YOU WILL KNOW THIS, AND YOU WILL REALISE THAT YOU WOULD DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN IN A HEARTBEAT.” 

“That doesn't make things better,” I replied. “It's not fair. Why do I have to do this? Why does it have to be me?” My complaints sounded hollow, like a rat's chittering, beneath the baritone of her voice. “I just wanted to get by, have fun, live a little. I didn't ask for any of this.”

Her sigh held no judgement, no compassion, nothing except an endless exhaustion. “IT IS INDEED NOT FAIR.” She did not seem willing to say more.

“You think we chose this?” One of the lesser Oracles had spoken up, the man, and his voice did hold judgement. “You think we wanted to be cursed with omnipotence, to be forced to see that stupid fourth wall and the assholes that lie beyond? To know all that, and be able to change none of it? Ramaeria died to try to save her husband, and what did it change? Nothing! She, we, knew everything, and yet we're helpless! It sucks, you stupid little fried potato, and don't you try to compare your suffering to ours,” he snarled.

“SILENCE. THE CHILD'S WEEPING IS NOT CAUSELESS. WE WILL AID YOU, LITTLE ONE, IF YOU WISH TO RECEIVE THE ORACLE'S BLESSING.” 

I turned back towards the True Oracle, and nodded unsteadily. At the corner of my gibbering mind, I thought she looked an awful lot like my first lover, like Akati come back to life. 

She must have known, for she stood up and enfolded me in her arms, like I were a baby bird and the sleeves of her robe a mother's wings. “SO IT IS, YOU WHO CALL YOURSELF HASH BROWN. YOUR SHIFTING WILL BE SWIFT, YOUR TONGUE WEAVED OF THE PUREST SILVER, YOUR JUDGEMENT ABLE TO BALANCE A HEART AND A FEATHER. SO IT IS SAID BY THE ORACLES.” 

Grudgingly, one by one, the other Oracles piped up. “So it is said by the Oracles,” they chimed.

“Thank you,” I replied, at a loss for other words.

“THERE IS ONE LAST THING I MUST DO TO SEAL THIS DEAL.” As she said it, she bent down, a smile finally passing over her lips. 

The True Oracle pressed her lips to mine, and delivered me the grandest kiss of my life.

(hahah i normally put my taglist here but Olive had other plans. Please tell me what you think of this, I really went outta my comfort zone with it. Also, Fast Food is a chronologically unordered series, and you can find the rest on my pinned post!)

[conflictofthemind]

Your recent post about electromagnetism was great, but I want to know your theories on how time travel will play into the plot of season 5. I hope they won't use time travel to "fix the past" and rewrite the timeline (although I doubt that will happen).

Oh man I have so many thoughts. This is a whole can of worms to open up (which I will be doing eventually). But yes I agree with you 100%, I don’t think it will end in them rewriting the timeline. Or if they do, it will be through a creation of a new one and all of the characters will still be able to retain their previous memories. There still needs to be lasting consequences for every action, and the impacts of each characters’ decisions plus the entire story should stay with them.

Right now the main pet project that I’ve been working on gradually is something I’ve been calling the “play theory” (kind of a shit title); basically that Melvin is what’s dooming the narrative and causing the main characters to be trapped inside of a time loop. I’ll explain it condensed here but the post I have cooking is already 6 pages at least.

It first came from that whole Melvin “star-crossed lovers” “Romeo and Juliet” thing, and lines within the TFS play that is… also inspired itself by another “star-crossed doomed” lovers play. There are so many weird meta layers to it all.

There’s multiple 4th wall breaks in TFS where Henry tries to escape the theatre and seems to be aware he is performing on a stage. There’s also a very pointed dialogue which is where I finally started making this into a fully fledged theory:

“It’s a sad song, I like the gay ones best”.

“It doesn’t have to be sad, you never know the ending until it’s sung all the way through”.

“Then let’s make it a gay one”.

“Sing your own ending”.

And what a weird theme to choose, because the answer “in the play” is actually no, it can’t. TFS is a sad song, a continuation of the time loop. A play. But that surely won’t be the case for Stranger Things, because we’ve been told that Will’s superpower is his heart and he gets a happy ending.

As Mike performs his “love” for the audience, the name Montague (for Romeo Montague) appears behind him.

Basically, the characters are conforming to the pre-written roles they have already been assigned to (by society) and are forced to enact, and re-enact, a tragedy of two doomed lovers. The curtain on a play closes but the next night the story begins all over again, to a new audience, always with the same ending. Like a time loop. Like a never ending story.

Mike’s decision to keep playing the role of Romeo to El’s Juliet will result in Will beginning the time loop. So Will starts the time loop, and I expect Mike will be the one to finally break them out of it.

[yuukei-yikes]

i extended on something i wrote months ago in the subject of shinene codependency (and shinaya breakup) but its hidden in a Much longer post under a read more so i wanted to make it into its own post for my kagenalysis tag❤️:

to rant a bit abt the "personal narrative" of shintaro. i think it's interesting that shintaro is essentially a very self centered character and kagepro is very meta in the way it treats him as a main character. because inside of kagepro, he really gets as much focus as any other character, they're all "main" character to us. its rather inside the story he plays a very important role therefore he is the protagonist and as the protagonist he puts an end to the story itself too. i think this is all interesting together and fun to dissect shintaro's character as inherently self centered because that's what the story is. the initial premise is that he's a depressed guy living in regret he used to be "such a bad person" to someone he cared deeply about.

his self centeredness shows not only in the way he acts even without retaining activated, but he is really in the center of it. shintaro IS the protagonist and deep down even if he hasn't remembered yet, he knows that. so does everyone else. they all know they depend on him, sooner or later.

and i like to think of all this in a post str context thinking that the way he handles all that in everyday life once this story is over and theyre free from a narrative in the first place, is self destructive because its not compatible to being a normal person. he's a protagonist but there's nothing to be a protagonist OF anymore

so it IS taking him a bit to really LOOK at his friends and stop looking only for himself. technically he's lived a hundred doomed lives and now he's here trying out this one and again it is scary and new and... ene, who's been the most dedicated to centering her life around shintaro, is a clear safe place while navigating this.

he takes takane totally for granted because of this. in the narrative she has always been his sidekick. she has been the second main character to him. she has always lived and served him in all timelines, in all the time theyve known each other that she can't remember and he can, takane has been more ene than she's been takane to him, and ene has always been his annoying lap dog he hates as much as he needs in order for the story to move forward. takane of course reciprocrates the dynamic because it's also all she's known for a year. but... it's a year, vs. shintaro's God Knows How Many resets.

so eventually... as she is free from the narrative and very much her own person outside of him, capable of finding love and priorities somewhere else away from him and OUT LOUD tackling issues like hey we have a codependent dynamic going on we should work on, bc she does normal people stuff like going to therapy, takane moves on. which is mind blowing for shintaro AND HE DOESNT LIKE IT

he shuns it completely whenever takane brings it up, which she does a lot as time goes on. because time keeps going on. it keeps passing by. and everyone around him seems to be growing up and that's so infuriating and so terrifying and then stuff like ayano dating him and dumping him is as much of a reality check as ayano being alive in the first place, and he doesn't know what to do with it other than cry and thrive off the attention takane gives him again upon seeing him broken again.

he's in PAIN but it's familiar. it's comfortable. it's classic. it works. because the story he was a protagonist of was a tragedy, so he doesn't know how to behave when there is hope in the future. ❤️

[princeescaluswords]

(contd) Like the twins want in on Scott's pack and Derek literally asks them if they'd be willing to die for him because to Derek anything less is just not gonna cut it.

Then the twins want to run bc of the Nogitsune and Derek has his whole speech about what an amazing leader Scott is.

Derek and Scott's heart to heart at the hospital has Derek going all "yeah you have the same place as protector of this town as my late mother and family and everybody needs you and you have taught me so much."

It always mystifies me when I read certain people's criticism of Teen Wolf: The Movie. These criticisms fall into three main categories.

Too much attention is paid to Scott and Allison's relationship.

How can you bring the nogitsune back without bringing back Stiles?

Derek's death and its aftermath was pointless and unfounded.

Rebuttals of the first two criticisms deserve their own metas, but I'll give them a brief summary. If you carefully watched the first three seasons, Scott and Allison's relationship was the foundation of the show, not in terms of consuming romance, but in terms of how it helped Scott and Allison define who they are in the face of exterior forces, which is a key part of growing up. While Stiles was the focus of the action in 3B, the story was still mostly about Scott's maturing as a leader by giving him a Kobayashi Maru: a no-win scenario pitting his desire to protect others against his love for his best friend. But it is the third criticism that I'll address in this post.

Derek's death at the end of the movie is a tragedy. This can't be stressed enough, but it is also a culmination to his entire character arc. The end of Season 3A saw him renounce the fear of loss and desire for power that almost doomed him that season, made him an antagonist in Season 1 and a villain in Season 2. His departure at the end of Lunar Ellipse (3x12) symbolizes both that renunciation but also indicates his arc for 3B: what will he become?

He starts with a journey to the past. "But that's not the only reason I left. I needed to talk to my mother." He finds Talia's claws, coerces Peter into using them, and then emerges with a new vision of himself. In Riddled (3x18), he acknowledges the passing of the alpha mantle to Scott (and I would argue begins to act as Scott's beta) with "This town needs someone to protect it, someone like you." but it's very important to note that while he is inspired by Scott, he does not emulate Scott. Following another person doesn't require the obliteration of self. Derek works with Chris Argent and he doesn't take killing Stiles off the table the way Scott does. He physically attacks him. He doesn't rush to Oak Creek, because he can be more helpful rescuing the twins from what will turn out to be Kate.

We see that in the way he talks about Scott throughout the season. It may look like he wants to join the Scott McCall Fan Club, but he rejects that, even in his big speech in The Divine Move (3x24). This is the key line: "You've had it wrong the whole time. You don't fight for a leader. You fight for a leader's cause." He's going to work with Scott, protect what Scott decides needs protection, and even be Scott's beta, but he's going to be his own person while doing so. He learned this from Scott who was willing to work with him in the first three season but who wasn't willing to simply do as he's told. He learned this, in a negative way, from Peter who manipulated him repeatedly, in Visionary's flashback (3x08), in Wolf's Bane (1x09), in Battlefield (2x11), in Alpha Pact (3x11).

Unlike Scott, who chooses to place the most value on life (but not above everything), Derek's more than willing to kill victims like Stiles in order to protect the town, as he tried in De-Void (3x22), but unlike his attempts to kill Lydia in Season 2, he's not doing it out of fear. In addition, as he says to the twins, he also believes he should be willing to die to protect what he cares about as well as kill. This manifests in his willingness to die in Season 4, and that willingness allows him to evolve. However, it's a reaction to what Kate did to him, not a decision to die in order to achieve an end. In the movie, however, it is an active choice. The nogitsune will never stop coming for his family, his alpha, his friends, and he makes the decision to sacrifice his life in order to prevent that. He doesn't do out of a reaction to the horrific memories of the Hale Fire; he's does it because he values family and pack; that's virtue. He's not doing because he's mindlessly following Scott or being manipulated by Peter, but out of own conviction that it is the right thing to do, which is strength of character. He faces fire, the same terror that destroyed his first family, without fear, which is force of will. He didn't mimic Scott's path to a new set of red eyes; he forged his own.

As tragic as it was, how could it be anything but satisfying?

[thelordofgifs]

@butterflies-and-fishermen I was so touched by your tags on the latest instalment of the fairest stars (the AU bullet point fic “Beren and Lúthien steal two Silmarils and things snowball” I’ve been posting to tumblr in irregular instalments, for people who missed it) that I thought I’d make a separate post to respond to them here, I hope that’s ok!

#but! But!#Celegorm may be doomed according to Oath rules#but this can't just be a tragedy#(bawling my eyes out)#if the Oath turns you into the worst version of yourself and takes what good you have left#then Celegorm died as a hunter of evil#not a predator of the weak#he gave his life for a worthy cause#for his friend#the Oath too was sacrificed#instead of being the altar on which everything was sacrificed#They will meet again#But even hound and hunter battling Carcharoth together for eternity in the void is a sweeter ending

You’re so right!! Killing Celegorm felt a bit cruel but ultimately I thought it was a much kinder ending for him than his canonical one. I wasn’t even intending to have him reunite with Huan initially (he wasn’t supposed to BE in the fic originally, but he insisted); but when I realised I could actually have something of a reconciliation with Huan for him, I couldn’t resist letting him die fighting evil. As a hunter of evil specifically (I’m so glad you used that phrase!), which calls back to his old role as one of Oromë’s following. (Yes, I totally did that intentionally, it wasn’t an accidental thing which ended up turning out neat, no not at all, why do you ask?)

But what I really wanted to address here was the Oath, and whether it really does “turn you into the worst version of yourself, and strip away the best thing you have left”. This is Maedhros’ line, which Maglor has also echoed in his conversation with Lúthien – importantly, though, Maglor added that he wasn’t sure whether or not he believed it. Do I, the author? Is that how the Oath works? That’s something I haven’t fully decided yet (although it is a fun idea to meta about, there’s been great discourse about the Oath recently) and probably shouldn’t reveal anyway because of spoilers. But I wonder how clearly it’s come across that the Maedhros of TFS wow look it has an ACRONYM it’s all grown up is… not always mentally in the best place. It’s not nearly as bad as it gets in canon – this is pre-Nirnaeth! But he still has so much Angband-related trauma, being chained up by Thingol was incredibly triggering for him, he’s very upset by his little brothers’ terrible deeds in Nargothrond, and he spent like five parts convinced he wouldn’t be able to hold a Silmaril – baselessly, as it turned out. Maedhros is very afraid of himself, and of the Oath. So take that line of his with a pinch of salt! The Oath might have turned Celegorm into the worst version of himself, and taken his best thing (his dog), but he both redeemed himself a little and got to reunite with Huan. Maedhros, for his part, has so far managed to avoid doing anything deeply terrible, and his own “best thing” (Maglor) hasn’t died.

As for Celegorm being doomed according to Oath rules – I’m unsure how relevant that will end up being in TFS, since I haven’t planned that far ahead (or at all lol). But after quite a few months of thinking, I came across the most beautiful line in this beautiful fic by @thearrogantemu: “Everlasting Darkness! As if darkness were a thing that could last!”

… which sums up my feelings better than I ever could.

OKAY I now need to apologise to: both the people I tagged completely unprompted in this rambly self-indulgent navel-gazing post about my own fic; my followers who assuredly did not ask for this pseudo-dvd commentary; readers of TFS who haven’t caught up on the last part and are now spoiled; and anyone who hasn’t read TFS and has no idea what’s going on here (quite intrigued by what you make of it with no context, though).

[ultimumvitae]

...in reference to my other meta post because i just cannot shut up about this hedgehog, for all my disagreements with shth, the music slaps and it's kind of ironic that the lyrics portray the themes of him desperately trying to grab hold of his own fate and have some autonomy better than the actual game does. "i am (all of me)" and "all hail shadow" are probably two of my favorite sonic tracks for just that reason.

they're obviously supposed to be about black doom/the black arms and shadow's internal conflict and confusion about his identity, but i think they work just as well as anthems for coming out the other side of immense tragedy and learning to how to find your footing again, to live and stop letting others dictate who you are and what you should do. they can be looked at as defiant songs, sung in the face of shadow's abusers, manipulators, and anyone who tries to hurt the world he swore to maria that he'd protect.

"i am (all of me)" is a dare for anyone to try to sway him, and a declaration that no matter what people try to make of him, or which memories of his are real or fabricated, he belongs to no one but himself. he's complete, and he is his own.

"all hail shadow" is similar, but even cockier and more obviously triumphant:

it's not just a dare, it's a threat and a promise that he'll keep fighting anything that endangers those he loves or what he believes is right, and he won't stop until he's won. it's also a song about victory ("nothing can stop you now / no ghost to bring you down" and "determination of the strong / found the meaning that you / searched for so long"); he's finally found his purpose and realized that he can decide his own path, he doesn't have to be anyone's puppet anymore.

there's a moment in sonic '06 where mephiles questions shadow's choice to keep fighting when he knows that the world will never understand and likely turn against him, and shadow, no hesitation, tells him: "if the world chooses to become my enemy, i will fight like i always have." and i am SO, soooooooooo in love with this moment, because i feel like it encapsulates everything shadow believes, and reflects the alternative messages that could be derived from his themes in his title game.

shadow is driven not by selfishness but by a personal sense of justice and the determination to keep his promise to his oldest and dearest friend. sometimes that justice doesn't line up with sonic's, but that's okay.

he's just!! he can be an aggressive, broody asshole, yeah, and he's edgy at times, sure, but he is so much more than that. the cold, quiet, unaffected persona is a wall he puts up to keep the people he loves at a safe, arm's length. he's not always a tryhard... sometimes he's just traumatized.

[tyrannuspitch]

objection your honour this propaganda is NOT fair representation of snowbaz!! yeah the cover is okay but the CONTENTS of the book are capable of turning a teenage brain inside out (source: it happened to me.) thankfully as tumblr user tyrannuspitch i consider myself qualified to remedy this situation.

the basic concept of carry on is that it starts out as a parody, as the most cliché young adult fantasy book you can imagine, with every melodramatic speech and villainous flourish dialled up to eleven... and then it slowly but surely makes the inevitable gay fanfiction of its central homoerotic rivalry canon. my reaction the first time i read it was literally: "this shouldn't work. this shouldn't be allowed to be good." and yet it IS!

it's a Story About Stories. it's a love letter to the genre and a brutal genre deconstruction at the same time. it's intensely meta and genre-aware, but not in a cynical or undermining way - in an intensely compassionate one. it's both honest and EARNEST, both funny and genuinely heartbreaking, and these things are never in tension with each other - they flow into each other naturally as how people in extraordinarily terrible circumstances cope.

"doomed by the narrative" this, "doomed by the narrative" that, and yet none of you guys seem to care that tyrannus basilton grimm-pitch has been aware that he is the villain(tm) and he's going to have to be murdered so the happily ever after(tm) can happen since he was eleven years old...

it is [ao3 voice] a slowburn enemies-to-lovers arc, and again - it's executed so well. the hero (simon) and the villain (baz) are two young figureheads for opposing factions in their magical society, currently in a kind of cold civil war, always on the verge of tipping over into an actual war. they can't be in the same room starting a fight, and they've tried to kill each other multiple times. and. they're roommates. they are child soldiers on opposite sides of a war, and they had to grow up in the same bedroom. the intimacy! the yearning! the tragedy! you sleep next to this boy every night and you know what his shampoo smells like. and one day he's going to kill you!

THE LOVE TRIANGLE. of course there's a love triangle. but it's an m/m/f love triangle, and at least one of the boys is gay, so how can this be? the answer is that it's an intricate web of closet cases and increasingly desperate attempts at denial. and it's both genuinely interesting and incredibly fun. you've heard of lavender marriages, now get ready for: lavender infidelity!

vampirism as queerness. god, have i really not mentioned the vampires yet? well. of course, we all know that vampires are gay because they're sexy, sinister outsiders - but i think what this book does particularly well is setting up vampires as a legitimately unjustly persecuted group, and fear of vampires as a irrational and deeply damaging stigma. you do have to work for this one a little bit, but it's absolutely in there. simon showing compassion towards baz's internalised vampirephobia is key to the central turning point of the book!

this is a child soldier story. both simon and baz are used as weapons and pawns by their own families from a very young age. that means the story has to hold onto three simultaneous truths: firstly, that sometimes your parent is a terrible person, and you love them anyway. secondly: that even if do you love your parent, sometimes they're such a terrible person that you'll have to kill them if you ever want to escape. thirdly: that violence takes an immense toll on people, especially children, and forcing them to commit it is itself a form of abuse. so, yes, you can kill your abuser and be justified in it. but it's still a tragedy, because you never should have had to.

on a lighter note... the oft-screenshotted wikipedia page's table of contents reads as follows:

finally, i leave you with one of the songs from my playlist which i think most definitively captures the vibe(tm): sleep alone (bat for lashes)

thank you, and good night.

ROUND 1: POLL #46

ROUND 1 POLLS [HERE]

PROPAGANDA BELOW

Simon Snow/Tyrannus Basilton "Baz" Grimm-Pitch:

SnowBaz looking awesome

[SPOILERS]

Ren Amamiya/Goro Akechi:

They're rivals but obsessed with each other. Goro tries to kill Akira and fails, but not before he spills his guts and tragic backstory. Akira is the only person to make Goro question his worldview and start on the path to become a better person. They mirror each other perfectly, since they're both fighting for justice and a better world, but in different ways. SPOILERS: When Akira thinks Goro has died, he carries around Goro's glove as a reminder of their promise to be rivals and constantly oppose each other.

[jeremy-ken-anderson]

Power-Up Fail

An odd dilemma you hit in writing anime/manga is deciding how much focus to give a character's growth when you want their new ability not to work for story reasons.

On the one hand, if there's a bunch of buildup and then the newly upgraded Double Super Swing still does jack-all, you get viewers who'll feel cheated, or even manipulated. They'll feel like you lied, and/or wasted their time on purpose for a cheap joke.

But on the other hand if there's not a bunch of buildup for the newly upgraded Double Super Swing then the viewer doesn't have a clue how good that move is supposed to be. If their first introduction to a move is watching it get parried, then even if it's been hyped up verbally the viewer could reasonably assume the upgraded move was kind of bad, instead of the intended assumption that the upgraded move was awesome but outclassed by its OP target. There's also the possibility that if you never "cheat" the audience by having hyped moves fail, they'll eventually find your story predictable.

There's nothing wrong with predictable storytelling; One could as easily call it "satisfying" storytelling, because usually the reason you can predict what's coming is because you're actually using foreshadowing as an author and letting your story work its way to a natural conclusion. BUT!

There is an oddity here where in this case the reason it's making your story predictable is very meta.

When she was in the hospital for a bit my mom watched about 3 seasons in a row of Murder, She Wrote. And she said after about 1 season it got boring because she started identifying the killer the instant they appeared. She couldn't tell why, but clearly there was something they were doing with the direction, sound design, or maybe even makeup, that could tip someone off. Maybe the killer was always the 3rd new character introduced. Who knows. Similarly, if your viewer knows a new move will fail if you haven't hyped it up and will succeed if you have, they're essentially reading the author instead of reading the story.

It's absolutely worth hyping up a dude's fireball power and then having it fail to take down the big bad if we know the big bad is immune to fire. For those who were expecting the trope of "we saw the power-up scene so he was supposed to win" this will feel like a subversion but critically won't feel like a cheat because, of course, we told you fire wouldn't work. Meanwhile for those who were expecting the failure this is Theatrical Irony; It's a tragedy playing out before our eyes where we know the hero is doomed - doing his best, perhaps, but not knowing quite as much as we do in the audience (and in this case, not knowing the thing he really needs to know).

You can even do a double-subversion and have seeming Theatrical Irony as we see the hero practicing hotter and hotter fires, and cutting to our villain bathing in flames, and then when they fight have the hero use ice magic and get the explanation that fire happened to be a good element for special training on control and intensity but actually he knew he'd have to swap to cold for the actual battle.

The important bit is not how often you do this or that. If you do the same thing over and over and earn it every time, that's fine. It'll still be a fun show. Plot twists aren't a "good move" or a "bad move." That's like saying "moving your knight in chess" is a good move or a bad move. Moving it when? And where? What's the board state? Will the move put the other king in checkmate? Will it expose your own king? It can be literally the best or worst possible move in the whole game.

[jadenight67]

This is literally for one person so. Strap in?

While watching the season premier of The Winchesters I was struck by a reoccurring thought:

God this is going to hurt when it ends

I mean how can it not? John and Mary are so young and the spark is there. Mary is full of such anger and hurt, longing for more than the hunter life. And John is a haunted man, desperately trying to find a greater good to fight for after being devastated by war. You can see the threads of who they are here and how their talents and flaws will snowball into the tragedy that their lives become. And that's not even mentioning Carlos and Latika; two vibrant characters who are conspicuously absent from the family history Sam and Dean know.

Some might ask, what's the point in telling a story if you know how it ends? Why rehash the history for a man who ultimately abused his kids and went against the wishes of the woman he loved. Why torment us with the tragedy of a woman who never was able to escape the generational trauma she was stuck in, and who was unable to prevent her children from suffering the same fate?

Because to know how it ends, and still sing it again. As if it might turn out this time. I learned that from a friend of mine.

Hadestown is hands down one of my favourite musicals ever written. It bends genre and breaks the fourth wall to provide a story rich in meaning and heart. When Hermes sings "It's a sad song, it's a sad tale, it's a tragedy" in the opening number, we know from the beginning exactly what story is being told. It is an old song, a sad song, a love song.

Over the course of the musical you watch as Orpheus and Eurydice make choices that pull them apart; Eurydice's need for more for security driving her into the arms of Hades and Orpheus' inability to see the world as it is revenge him from seeing the real problems they faced. And when it comes down to it, after all the struggling and triumph, after helping the gods dance again, doubt still creeps. And Orpheus looks.

And yet, in the final numbers, we see the stage reset, the story preparing to tell itself again. A literal representation in telling a story for the story's sake mirrored in the play being performed night after night. As if it might turn out this time. And so it goes, again and again being told as a reminder and a warning and for the sake of the story itself.

Thankfully, in our case Dean is no Orpheus, always doomed to turn and look. Here he is Hermes, the story teller, the one guiding us through a story we think we know. The Winchesters, much like the tale of Orpheus and Eurydice, has merit even if it may not appear relevant on the surface. While I doubt any of us will be forced to sing before the Lord of the Underworld, we will have to find the strength to push through an impossible situation. And while we may not be fighting demons and ghosts in our day to day lives, many of us have complicated relationships with family and must learn how to see them as more than just the harm they caused us, perhaps not forgiving but understanding for our own healing and growth. The Winchesters provides a unique opportunity for a character to take back the narrative and tell their story how THEY want, their voice guiding us forward.

There are other far better written meta on what exactly may be happening in The Winchesters, where exactly this story is going. For my part, all I can say is I look forward to seeing what story Dean would like to tell us, what old song he wants to sing for us again and again and again.

[lemonhemlock]

Yet Alys managed to live perfectly fine as a wetnurse and a servant before Aemond came into her life. Even during Daemon's time we don't know anything about her. It's only when Aemond becomes "so besotted" with this women at least twice his age that they have to come up with stories to explain away his attraction to her. Yes, there is magic in this story. But similar things have been said about Sansa and Dany and we know that the things said about them are untrue.

I'm not so sure about the 'perfectly fine' part, anon. Harrenhal is unquestionably and emphatically cursed within the narrative. House Strong was never going to inhabit Harrenhal indefinitely; their doom was surely coming. The presence of Alys may serve as an additional leitmotif that accompanies that curse.

Both Sansa and Dany are POVs and we know what's up with them from the get-go. The main series and the backstory texts are written in different formats and, in my belief, we must accommodate those structures within any pertinent literary commentary. Within AGOT/ACOK/ASOS/AFFC/ADWD, magic and fantasy elements are introduced organically to cobweb themselves alongside the political machinations.

Fire & Blood, the worldbook and RotD are written like (fake) historical accounts, which is a separate genre in itself. Alys' participation within these "textbooks" jumps out as peculiar at the very least. Like in gothic fiction, Aemond quite literally goes inside the haunted manor, gives into temptation and willingly ingratiates himself in the metaphysical. Daemon is the character who rejects this domain of the paranormal and leaves, while Aemond vacates his (fake) medieval historical warfare arc and becomes trapped.

At any rate, the hypotheticals of this are not very conducive, because Aemond never had any future to begin with. He was mostly likely invented within the story with his death in mind from the very beginning. I posit that Aemond's very existence in the books is predicated on him being Daemon's foil. GRRM always intended Aemond and Daemon to die facing each other, so there is no version of this story in which they survive. The author just chose to signal Aemond's fate in advance via some very classic gothic tropes.

Much like in Greek tragedies, characters that are supposed to die at the end receive within the text markers that communicate their eventual doom. On the one hand, Aemond dooms himself on the political plane by reneging on the Baratheon agreement and, on the other hand, that infringement is highlighted meta-textually by the interference of the otherwordly sphere.

[manofthepipis]

These characters are both great examples of this theme and their matchup is truly a difficult one to pick a victor.

And with that said, I still think out of the two, the most doomed by the narrative is Spamton.

I was an avid reader of the hunger games, reading all the novels over and over, and Prim was the first character I've read about that introduced me to the concept of a character being doomed from day one. from page one. No matter how much katniss goes through, she is unable to save prim, and prim dies at the end anyway (and because of the people on her side, no less). It's a tragedy that I could go on about forever.

However, Spamton takes it a large step further, and deltarune as a whole really focuses on this concept with darkners in general, but what Spamton has over Prim is his awareness in the narrative. Deltarune is very meta when the plot progresses, and Spamton is nothing more than crappy spam email, and that, in its ENTIRETY, is his very being. No more, no less. He's introduced as a one-off fight, that you (if playing blindly) have the option of not progressing with his plotline, introducing his FIRST ending– being ignored/overlooked and thus treating him EXACTLY how the regular person treats spam email. (as you should though. Spam email sucks)

That's because, in Deltarune, essentially you're the one overseeing the narrative, and you make the choice to encounter him as a boss or not. While other darkners of cyber city have some sort of purpose (from ms.paint-esc programs to computer viruses etc), Spamton has none. He is not liked. And the one moment in his life he was admired, he wasn't the one that got himself to the top and he fell from grace anyway due to his help mysteriously leaving him to fail (again).

So how does this all make him doomed by the narrative? Well this gets to him, drives him to aspire to have purpose and get to [Heaven], but no matter what he does he's always set to fail. Even with the help of a higher power than he is, he falls anyway. He fails to get NEO without player intervention, and when he does, there's only one ending for him. Every. single. run.

It doesn't end there. The point of deltarune is that your choices don't matter/won't change the story. Despite that, if you DO somehow find the Snowgrave Route (giving the player the opportunity to radically alter the story), Spamton does get the upper hand in this route for a short bit, but even STILL his only ending is his failure.

(shown before noelle absolutely destroys his ass)

This is all because he has absolutely no control. His very existence is that he will never have any control. He gets one ending, no matter how much change YOU as a PLAYER can possibly make. No matter how much dust he stirs up trying, begging, pleading for something to change.

I've mentioned this before in the spamton vs light poll, but I do want to mention it again as this is just how deep his doomed-by-the-narrative status goes.

In September 2022, the Spamton sweepstakes had Spamton (outside of the game) market various products that people could win if they donated to the charity event. At the very end, we were faced with this:

We, as the audience, players AND non-players of deltarune, could donate to either free spamton or silence him. That's how little control he has as a character. Inside AND outside the narrative he has a place in, his only ending is out of his own manipulation or power. His entire character is that the narrative exists without him being a key in its overall ending, and he is doomed to witness his own downfall no matter how many endings it takes.

(Also, may I add, Toby Fox creator of deltarune, donated 15k just to silence him. How hilarious is it that the person that basically WROTE YOU INTO EXISTENCE wants you dead. Ever since then I can't get over that)

Spamton's tragedy defines him in his motivations, his dialogue, his endings, and EVEN his appearance (being depicted as a literal puppet). His design, lore, and character is completely about how he IS doomed by the very game he has a presence in, and nothing, not even the player, not even YOU, can change that.

@doomed-bythe-narrative

Doomed by the Narrative: Side A - Round 2

[i-want-it-on-fire]

Not sure how coherent this is going to be, but I have had Some Thoughts™ that have been pinging around in my head for a while now, but I'm still not sure how to properly articulate them.

You know what fucks me up about the final episode and about Jon's character arc in general? Agency. Like I haven't actually seen a lot of meta about the finale or reactions to it, but I know one of mine was "Jon wtf omg why" which was immediately followed by "oh wait oh no of course he fucking did this, this is so sad." Because something that's always fucked me up about him is how little choice he's had in anything that's happened to him during the show and just how cruel other characters are to him about that from the very beginning.

Season 3 is a notable example when Elias (I can't call him Jonah, it feels wrong lmao) tells Jon that maybe he never wanted to be an avatar/the Archivist but he "absolutely did choose it." Which is such a horrible thing to say to someone (especially someone you are actively manipulating into being your doomsday device.) There might be others, which I'll probably go back and find if I choose to write a full essay on this.

And the cruelty of Jon's whole situation really stood out to me with Annabelle's "and then we took his voice" comment. Because that's an extremely loaded sentence. The Web literally used his voice to construct its escape plan, but it also took away any agency or say Jon had in what was happening to him or the people around him. It took his voice both literally AND figuratively, and based on his immediate reaction to that statement, I don't think that was lost on him.

Jon's entire journey during this podcast (even his entire life if you want to take what Annabelle said at face value) has been one big chess game played by things bigger than him that absolutely do not care about him as a person. His whole life has been a charade leading up to this moment: ending the world, and then potentially ending it for other worlds as well. And at every turn the people orchestrating it have taunted him with the fact that he can't do anything about it.

Like...how fucked up is that?

I wondered in the moment why he would go behind everyone's backs (Martin's ESPECIALLY) like that at the end, but when I thought about it for more than a second I realized there's nothing else he could have done. That was his last opportunity to have any say in what happened to him, the world, or the Fears, and because of all the trauma he's been through and never really had the chance to recover from, of course he decided he wasn't going to let this kind of thing happen to anyone else, even if it meant betraying the people he loved and dooming his world all over again.

And I think what makes it worse is that I don't think anyone else ever really understood how much making that choice mattered to him, even if it wasn't the "right" one (though we could argue all day about which choice was the "right" one in that scenario. I would argue there wasn't one.) And I think part of the tragedy is that had Jon been better at reaching out to other people throughout the course of the series or had people reached out to him more, this may not have happened. And because of everything that happened to these characters, the ways in which it happened, and how they all reacted to it, I'm not sure how capable any of them were of doing that.

It's easy to judge people for how they respond to trauma when you're not in the thick of it, but when you're stuck in the middle of a horrible situation like that? Sometimes you feel like all you can do is try to survive. Trauma makes you feel like, well...like you have no agency. And sometimes it's impossible to know what exactly is going to be the thing that pulls you out of it and into a healthier place (though not being trapped in an eldritch library designed to feed people to evil gods probably would have helped.) The tragedy is that Jon's situation and the situation of everyone else around him feels like it could have been prevented, but it became so tangled and messy that it's impossible to say that fixing just one thing would have stopped it, and if you follow those threads long enough, you start to wonder if it could have been stopped at all.

[veliseraptor]

Hi, lise...If you don't mind, can I ask, what are your favorite yunmeng shuangjie scenes/moments? And why? Sorry if you've answered this question before....

hoo boy okay I hope you’re ready for long because I’m constitutionally incapable of answering these kinds of questions without going hard. which is why it takes me so long and that’s why I have a backlog of 5 million inbox messages but what e v e r

I limited myself to five here because if I didn’t I’d just start listing every scene they interact in, and nobody wants that. or, well, I don’t want that, I’d lose a lot of time that way.

putting this under a cut because...yeah. long.

1. the original Yunmeng Shuangjie conversation in episode 14.

like! augh.  I’m not sure that this was the place where I was officially painfully ridiculously sold on their relationship as my favorite part of the show so far but it was a major contributing factor. There’s just so much going on here! In the way that it speaks to their history together, and in their family, and the roles they play.

I love, too, that Wei Wuxian specifically goes “twin jades? pfff. we’ve got our own thing going on that’s just as cool” because it’s doing double duty of making them a special thing in their own right and also, maybe even more importantly, reaffirming their bond as primary where Jiang Cheng at this point has been...well, a little uneasy about the space Lan Wangji has started to occupy in Wei Wuxian’s life. To say the least.

But maybe even most of all why this is such a gut punch for me personally: the promise Wei Wuxian is making to Jiang Cheng is one that you, the viewer, know isn’t going to work out. Thanks to the opening of episode one, and their interaction in episode two, it’s abundantly clear that something is going to go horribly wrong, and this close relationship is going to break, catastrophically.

And me being me I love the piquant taste of dramatic irony in the morning.

2. the argument in episode 27-28.

This is one of those moments where I never fail to get extremely emotional about it every time I watch this scene because it is so very ouch. The way that Jiang Cheng approaches Wei Wuxian with this guarded wariness, this prickliness and doubt, and how that breaks by the end into his desperate plea: “if you continue to protect them, then I can’t protect you!”

(different subtitles, so sue me.)

and I cry.

I’ve written before about how there’s...so much going on here. To break it down a little bit how about a bulleted list:

Jiang Cheng has been personal witness to - and personal target off - the current political winds, in a way that Wei Wuxian is not. He’s seeing and hearing how the cultivation world is talking about Wei Wuxian. He can see the way the wind is blowing very, very clearly, and what he sees is that Wei Wuxian is doomed if he stays the course - something Wei Wuxian either doesn’t or doesn’t want to see.

Jiang Cheng desperately wants Wei Wuxian to come home. Wei Wuxian can’t without abandoning the people relying on him, which would be both an ethical and emotional violation for him. His conflicting loyalties are coming to a head here but he still wants to have it both ways.

What Wei Wuxian sees as a mercy or releasing of obligation, a way of keeping Yunmeng Jiang and specifically Jiang Cheng and Jiang Yanli safe, Jiang Cheng sees as an abandonment/rejection - an affirmation that he, once again, just doesn’t matter enough.

It’s just...I cannot get over how clear-eyed Jiang Cheng’s assessment is. Whether or not you agree with his choices, he’s right, on a factual level. And I think Wei Wuxian knows that. But he’s on this road and he’s going to see it through, and he refuses to accept that he might not be able to. 

and I just. I cry.

3. the conversation post resurrection.

Jiang Cheng cornering Wei Wuxian with the very animal he swore to always protect him from! party foul, yes, but also oh boy psychologically crunchy in every way. This confrontation, their first after Wei Wuxian’s resurrection where they both know and know they know the truth of who Wei Wuxian is, is so full of pain and hurt and anger.

it’s just! so much. Jiang Cheng’s see-sawing back and forth between “why didn’t you come back home!!!” (the question he’s always had) and “why aren’t you still dead!!!” Wei Wuxian murmuring about wanting to go back to Lotus Pier, calling for Jiang Yanli (Jiang Yanli, the biggest wound between them, her absence so very palpable in that moment).

There’s so much both of them want here, and so much that’s not being said, and can’t be said. The overwhelming pressure of their history - Jiang Cheng’s sixteen years of grief and anger raw all over again, and Wei Wuxian's exhaustion and misery.

it’s excruciatingly painful and I love it.

4. the conversation in Guanyin Temple.

so I spent, like, most of the latter half of the show waiting for a moment between Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng where things would break and I’d get the emotional sibling catharsis feelings that I needed and boy did this deliver. like! other people have written far more coherent meta about this scene than I probably ever could because when I think about it I’m just sort of reduced to dragging my hands down my face and making distressed noises punctuated with wild gestures and cries of “THEM!!!”

the crying! the ugly crying, the ugly emotions, the big secret between them that set off the beginning of the rift in their relationship laid bare. it’s this moment of naked emotional vulnerability for both of them, and while it doesn’t resolve things, while it leaves them both in a place, I think, where they’re prone to go ‘well, he’s done with me now’ - it also opens a door where that doesn’t have to be the case. Wei Wuxian’s tenderness. The gesture he makes here, too, touching Jiang Cheng’s face, echoes the gesture Jiang Yanli makes touching Wei Wuxian’s just before she dies.

(echoes what jiang fengmian does before he goes off to die. how’s that for pain?)

it’s just. wild gestures. them. oh, boys. so much hurt, so much pain, and at the root of it so much goddamn love.

I’m going to go on and slide in here additionally the moment where Jiang Cheng tosses Wei Wuxian Chenqing because boy does that say a lot in a relatively simple gesture.

5. meeting in Yiling with Jiang Yanli.

This scene is...I described it from Jiang Cheng’s POV remembering in a fic as "like looking at children in the path of a rockslide, unaware of what was bearing down on them, such a short time away. Oblivious.” and that’s how I feel watching it. It’s so cute, and sweet, and Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian love Jiang Yanli so much, and Jiang Cheng has suggested Jiang Yanli ask Wei Wuxian to give his unborn nephew his courtesy name and then gets embarrassed when she outs him about it, he and Wei Wuxian tease each other.

I love it. There’s just this sweetness and happiness that they’re having, in this moment, in this tiny courtyard,  because this little separate hidden place is the only place, now, where they can be together, where they can be family as they once were.

And it’s not going to last. And the viewer, once again, can feel the gathering storm bearing down on them, and know it’s only going to end in tragedy.

This is the last time they see each other before it all goes wrong.

BONUS:

[ianenjoyer]

an overly detailed analysis of every time Ian and Mickey talked about loving each other bc I love pain and angst apparently 

1. “You love me, and you’re gay.” -Ian, 3x09

So right off the bat this one was always the most shocking to me. Throughout the season, there were definitely hints that they were falling in love with each other/already in love but the fact that this is the first time we actually hear it hurts me so much. Especially because Ian was so sure. He wasn’t asking Mickey if he loves him or begging Mickey to love him. He just... knew that he did. This scene is so raw and painful and real because you just see two kids who are desperately in love with each other, but not allowed or able to show that in a healthy way, so they just end up lashing out at each other.

2. “You try sitting on your ass while the person you love--” -Ian, 3x11

Like I said: pain. So before, we heard that Ian knows Mickey loves him, but I always thought it was interesting that he focused on that instead of telling Mickey that he loves him. Because he does, and he definitely knew that. I think this speaks to Ian’s tendency to compartmentalize and only think of his emotions in terms of other people, which he does consistently throughout the show. So here we hear him admit it, but not to Mickey, and only because he’s drunk out of his mind. Ian is just one of those people that constantly keeps things bottled up inside and only deals with them when he reaches a breaking point, which he definitely did in this episode (and we see the fall out of this in 3x12).

2.5 (bc i forgot it the first time) “You love Mickey?” -Carl, 4x11

So I do think it’s really interesting that he says “I like how he smells” here instead of just saying yes. I mean I do think he likes how Mickey smells which is very adorable but he also definitely loved Mickey at this point and he was definitely aware of that. I think he didn’t say it for two reasons: one, he wasn’t ready to admit it out loud and two, he didn’t want Mickey to hear him say it. Before, being over-eager and too obvious about his feelings hadn’t been met with a good response from Mickey, so I think he was trying to avoid scaring him off, while also doing some pretty serious compartmentalization himself. This especially makes sense considering that they weren’t technically a couple here, and that Mickey had only just started admitting (through actions, not words) that what he and Ian had was about more than sex.

3. “You love him?” -Svetlana, 4x12

The dynamic between Mickey and Svet is a very interesting one, and I don’t know if anybody could ever fully pick it apart. But in this scene, you see an odd mutual understanding between them (which extends in season 5a). And what’s truly shocking is that Mickey says “maybe”, which is such a big step for him. Before, if somebody asked him that he would have completely avoided the question while probably blowing up at the person. But he says “maybe”, showing that, even if he doesn’t fully understand his feelings, he had definitely thought about it, and it doesn’t scare him like it used to. This is definitely because he came out and finally felt like he could really be with Ian without this sword hanging over his head (even though the circumstances of that weren’t great).

4. “I love you.” -Mickey, 5x06

God this one... breaks my heart. First of all, the fact that Mickey was the first one to say it would have been shocking in seasons 1-3, but it actually makes so much sense in season 5. Over and over again this season, Mickey’s shown that he loves Ian, but the fact that he can only say it when he thinks he’s losing Ian, and that it’s obvious he didn’t mean to say it, shows that he still hasn’t fully come to terms with his feelings, no matter how strong they are. 

5. “You used to love me--now you don’t even know who I am.” Ian, 5x12

This one is almost identical to #1, except with the added piece that Ian no longer thinks he deserves to be loved. This one is so fascinating to me, because it shows, once again, that Ian projects his emotions onto other people instead of dealing with his own feelings. He tells Mickey that he used to love him, even though there’s been no indication from Mickey that he no longer loves him. He says that Mickey doesn’t know who he is when, really, he’s the one that doesn’t know who he is. He put words into Mickey’s mouth, because that’s what he believed to be true, and I really don’t think that at this point anything could have convinced him otherwise. The lack of self-worth that comes with having a mental illness is so debilitating and all-consuming that no amount of reasoning from Mickey would have done much to convince him that he deserved what Mickey was offering to give him. 

6. “I love you.” -Mickey, 5x12

So while we have Ian telling Mickey that he used to love him, Mickey counters by just saying how he feels to his face. I think that seeing Ian go though what he went through, and almost losing him like three times made it so that Mickey could no longer deny his feelings. But like I said, Ian had it so cemented in his mind that he was doomed and fucked for life, that I don’t think anything could have gotten through to him at this point. And of course at this point Noel left the show, so we never got to see what could have happened between them if Mickey had stayed. (I 100% think they would have gotten back together sometime in late season 6 after Ian reached a stable place again but whatever).

7. “I love you.” -Ian, 7x11

Fuck. 7x10 and 7x11 are such bittersweet episodes because while it does make it so clear that Ian and Mickey are the loves of each others lives, it’s also when they thought they would never see each other again. What’s extra sad it that this is the first time we’ve ever heard Ian say this. And it’s a goodbye. The only time Ian can really face his emotions head on is when he’s forced to, and he was definitely forced to here. He loves Mickey. He knows Mickey loves him. But that didn’t really matter here, and it’s so tragic, but also really realistic. As for Mickey, he doesn’t even seem surprised--because he wasn’t. He wouldn’t have asked Ian to come if he didn’t know he loved him. This scene is extra heartbreaking because of that. This whole thing just serves as a reminder that sometimes love isn’t enough, and that sometimes there are forces bigger than any two people at play, which I think has always been a central idea to their story.

8. “I love you.” “I know, love you too.” Ian and Mickey, 10x03

Mutual ‘I love you!!!! It took like 10 years but it finally happened. They say it like they’ve said it a thousand time before, which makes me think that it’s definitely not the first time they’ve said it. There’s not really much to talk about here except that finally they’re allowed to love each other. Sure it’s not an ideal situation, but it is one where there are no forces actively working to keep them apart, which is so wonderful. When Ian and Mickey are allowed to just be, they work so well. Even though they’re saying goodbye here, it’s not a real one, not like the break up or the border. It’s temporary and they both know that so for once, them saying ‘i love you’ is a happy (or at least bittersweet) thing instead of the tragedy it was all of the other times.

9. “I love you…and I trust you.” -Ian, 10x08

Remember that quote where Fiona tells Jimmysteve that to her (and all the Gallaghers) trust is bigger than love? Yeah. Anyways his scene is tough because while I don’t think Ian was necessarily lying about genuinely wanting to marry Mickey and the legal stuff just being bonus, I do think he was downplaying the importance, both to himself and Mickey. And at the courthouse, once the bonus of spousal privilege wasn’t needed, he definitely started to realize the magnitude of the situation and what connotations marriage held for him. I mean marriage isn’t something you should just decide on a whim, no matter how much you love somebody and I think he realized that the second the impending threat was gone.

10. “Mickey, I love you!” -Ian 10x08

This is him making it as clear as possible to Mickey that it’s marriage that’s the problem, not him. He saw how heartbroken Mickey was when he didn’t sign the papers, and was basically doing damage control at this point. The problem was, Mickey couldn’t see through his initial heartbreak to really listen to what Ian was saying, or try to understand where he was coming from. I think that Mickey is an incredibly understanding person, but this was just one time too many for him.

11. “You’re just saying you don’t love me enough now.” -Mickey, 10x09

This is probably the first time we’ve ever seen Mickey question Ian’s feelings for him. I think that at the courthouse, he was just so blatantly reminded of the break up and the border that he wasn’t thinking rationally. He was so terrified at the prospect of Ian not choosing him, that he couldn’t listen to Ian’s (pretty reasonable) explanation for why he didn’t get married. However, I don’t think he really believed what he was saying, especially because of how petty he was being with Byron, and how obvious he made it that he would instantly go back to Ian if he proposed. But it still is really sad that he was reminded of that all over again after believing that he and Ian were gonna get married and that he was never going to have to worry about that again.

12. “How do you know you love me?” -Ian, 10x09

I’ve written a meta on this before but here I go again. He’s once again assuming that Mickey couldn’t possibly love him--that he couldn’t possibly want to be with him forever. Not because Mickey’s done anything to indicate that, but because that’s what he thinks Mickey should feel. He genuinely can’t believe that Mickey would want to be with somebody like him, especially because of what he saw with Monica and the way she destroyed relationship after relationship (both romantic and familial). I don’t think he sees himself as being all that different from Monica, so even though that’s definitely not something Mickey would ever care about, it weighs on him heavily (and probably always will). This whole thing just so directly parallels the break up, and it’s so sad to think that, after everything, Ian still doesn’t think he’s worthy of the kind of love Mickey has for him.

13. “I love you Mickey Milkovich. More than anything.” -Ian, 10x10

More than anything!! God, the proposal was a little underwhelming but this line!! It’s Ian choosing to get past all of his doubts because his love for Mickey is bigger to him than they could ever be. Like I said, I don’t think he’ll ever fully be over his insecurities, but he can definitely choose to let Mickey in and have hope that they can work through it together. And even though Mickey knew that Ian loved him and was basically just biding his time, it must have felt amazing for him to hear it put so clearly like this.

14. “Look I love you. I love you.” -Mickey, 10x12

First of all, the way he says it is so amazing. Second of all, there isn’t much to say about this except that it’s so indicative of his growth. Like he went from being closeted and terrified, to blurting out how he feels in a room full of people. That is such a beautiful thing and I get really emo whenever I think about it. 

15. “To love and to cherish you ‘til death do us part.” -Ian and Mickey, 10x12

I actually really love that they used traditional vows for their wedding. So much of their relationship was complicated and hard, so to have something very simplistic but meaningful as their vows was so perfect. And the way they say them... they’re being so sincere and so honest. They really mean what they’re saying. They love each other!! And they’re married!! Wow!! That’s all I have to say about this.