#I'm just saying people are allowed to dislike Tommy

[wenellyb]

I think Tommy did some shitty things in the past. I think Tommy was a real big bigot. But 18 years can make a lot of difference in a person's behaviour. Y'know how I know, because I was racist, homophobic and misogynist. Because everybody around me thought that way, i thought that way too.

After multiple traumas and being gay myself, i realised how much of a shitty person I was being. And I changed. For the better I hope. And all this was in like 3 years or something.

If you think 19 years isn't enough for someone to change their bigotry then you should really evaluate your morals.

Also sometimes you're supposed to infer stuff from the media. Being outright told stuff is childish.

(Also this ask sounds mean but I promise I'm not trying to be, it's just I can't articulate my words better than this I'm sorry.)

Hi Anon!!!

I'm going to answer this since you took the time to write it.

First of all, I never said Tommy didn't change, I said that you can't blame people who think he hasn't changed or haven't forgiven him for his past actions. They don't have to.

I'm happy for you, if you have changed but do you agree that if you bullied someone when you were racist and bigoted that person doesn't have to forgive you, if they don't want to? Even 19 years later?

Do you agree that if anyone has witnessed you bigotry or your racism, they don't have to forgive you if they don't want to?

Or are they obligated to, since you've changed?

Add to that that Tommy is a fictional character.

It doesn't matter if Tommy has changed or not, some fans are not going to forgive him for his racsit past, and they shouldn't have to.

It's ok, if some fans like him, but it's more than ok if some fans don't like him, since they have valid reasons not to.

And it's not "childish" for some fans to be disappointed that there has never been an onscreen apology.

Trying to make it seem like the only people who dislike Tommy are frustrated Buddie shippers is unfair.

As I said, I'm a Bucktommy shipper, and I love the ship, but I don't want to be in the same fandom as people who think like you or like those other Anons.

People who think non-White fans should "get over it" because it was so long ago.

People who try minimize/invalidate our legitimate concerns and all of this for what? For a ship.

I'm not even telling to stop shipping Bucktommy, I ship it too, I'm telling the shippers to leave people who don't like Tommy alone.

And how do you react? You send me this🤷🏾‍♀️

No shade, but people like you make fandoms a little bit harder to enjoy.

[loullaby]

i was a buddie for years, so i'm all for the fun theories, the colors schemes, the random parallels, that's all fine and harmless. at the time, i didn't pay attention to how stupid some of them were, but it was mostly funny stupid, like people can be dumb without harming others.

but since tommy, the harmless takes are almost non-exiting. it's all borderline criminal behavior and intentionally trying to cause pain to others. yesterday, people turned a complement into a negative thing to prove tommy is a predator.

nothing that comes out of tommy's mouth will ever be considerate a good thing, no matter how much the show tries to show us that buck likes it and likes him. that just proves that what they are saying is not about the love they have for the characters.

people can dislike tommy for 100 different reasons without having to use dangerous and homophobic stereotypes, but they choose to. they choose to send death threats to lou and hide behind the "it's just a joke" excuse. they choose to talk about tommy being murdered and hide behind the "i'm allowed to dislike a character" excuse.

we can call them out a million times, and they won't listen, because they also hide behind the "that's just a normal ship war" excuse. i don't know what is gonna have to happen for something to change, but i can't pretend everything is fine.

[takemeorleaveme]

LISTEN IF YOU DON'T LIKE BUDDIE JUST BLOCK ME IF YOU DON'T LIKE PEOPLE WHO DON'T FUCK WITH BUCKTOMMY BLOCK ME... ONE THING ABOUT ME IS IF YOU WANT TO SIT AND ARGUE WITH ME ABOUT ALL THE AWFUL TOXIC STUFF BUDDIE SHIPPERS DO WHEN YOUR LIVING IN A GLASS HOUSE I'll MAKE SURE TO THROW ALL THE AWFUL TOXIC SHIT BUCKTOMMY SHIPPERS DO AND WE WILL JUST CONTINUE TO GO IN CIRCLES. I DO NOT CARE BECAUSE THESE ARE BOTH SMALL GROUPS OF SHIPPERS WHO ARE JUST GOOD AT BEING THE LOUDEST IN THE ROOM BUT I WON'T LET PEOPLE BE HYPOCRITES. I LOVE 9-1-1 AS A SHOW I LOVE EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER ON THE SHOW ITS FUN SHIPPING BUDDIE BUT I WON'T STOP WATCHING THE SHOW IF BUDDIE NEVER HAPPENS BECAUSE 9-1-1 HAS BEEN MY FAVORITE SHOW FROM THE BEGINNING AND I AIN'T GONNA ALLOW A NEW GROUP TO KILL MY LOVE FOR THE SHOW OR BUDDIE I JUST DON'T CARE BLOCK ME PLEASEE THAT'S ALL YOU HAVE TO DO SHIP WHATEVER THE FUCK YOU WANT BUT PLEASE BLOCK ME BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE BUCKTOMMY I DON'T LIKE TOMMY AND I AM STARTING NOT TO LIKE LOU AND I SAY THAT IN THE SAFETY OF MY TUMBLR BLOG I WILL NEVER TAKE MY DISLIKE FOR THE ACTOR OR CHARACTER TO THE ACTORS SOCIAL MEDIA OR TWITTER IT STAYS HERE BECAUSE I AM ALLOWED TO NOT LIKE PEOPLE OR CHARACTERS OR SHIPS. I'M NOT A CRAZY BITCH THAT WILL FLOOD THE SHOWS SOCIALS OVER IT.

[hainethehero]

Me again!

“When did the rules of fandom and fanfic become so absolutely strict & rigid to the point where people aren't allowed to like what they like??!!!” – bit off topic, but oh boy, have you not noticed the rise of “purity culture” in fandom in the past 10(?) years? People have been getting a LOT of hate for ships they ship or tropes they like. It’s definitely not restricted to buddie fandom or 911 fandom.

“Why do you care if people really like Eddie or not? Are you the Eddie police?” – This made me laugh. And the answer to the first question is pretty easy – if people really like Eddie, they’re more likely to post content about him that I can reblog and enjoy, such as fics or gifsets or meta etc. If everybody disliked Eddie, I’d have nothing fun to read/look at/engage with! So in that sense, I do care to an extent.

“I'm guessing if they have him in their pfp, they like him. And I'm guessing if they have him in their pfp, it's also respectfully none of your concern.” – Well, you’re right it’s not my concern per se, except that if I go scrolling a diaz/eddie-named blog, hoping for good Eddie content to reblog, and I run into a heap of BT posts or LJFR posts or Tommy posts, it’s a bit of a jumpscare/disappointment (which has happened several times). And yes, I filter tags, but people don’t always tag appropriately!

“your absolutely strange questions about what I envision for Eddie/who he'd end up with (I think u should be concerned with what you envision for him & not some stranger on the internet” – Why is it so strange to want to know what somebody else thinks and perhaps gain a fresh perspective? I already know what I would like for Eddie. I was curious about what you thought.

“He'd still be Buck's best friend if BT ended up as endgame

He'd be in a polyamorous relationship with them and get all the d*ck he wants (my personal preference)

Or the writers will give him another gf” - Anyway, so you like the option of eddie in a throuple with buck and tommy? Ok cool! My curiosity is satisfied!

What gets me about the whole "purity culture" in fandom that you're talking about, is that YOU'RE DOING IT. 🤣 you're doing it right now!

What's adding to this disease of purity culture in fandom is what most of the toxic buddie stans are doing RIGHT NOW. Yall are hating on Tommy with absolutely bad faith arguments and using every opportunity you can to deny the fact that you just don't like him because he's in the say of your preferred ship.

"I got a jumpscare seeing Tommy when I was looking thru the eddie tag" lmao okay that was funny. But like, the insane hatred for him is so weird. Y'all know whether buddie becomes canon or not, you can still make them endgame through fanfic right????

And yes, if more people were concerned with how they felt about their characters, instead of how other feel, we would avoid all this fandom war. You asking if people who had Eddie as their pfp really liked him or not IS entitled. You don't know why they have him as their pfp, so why question it? You're not entitled to know.

And in the referred ask, you wanting to know how someone who liked BT and Buddie would envision Eddie fitting in to the relationship- was totally your confusion at not being able to fathom that people could like both and still want buddie or BT to be endgame. Which is a trait I've observed in MOST buddie stans and some BT fans (which I DID address in my OP).

[tommykinard]

i was surprised by you saying buddie fans have to love tommy to deserve canon buddie. i'm also against people posting hate, but i think fans are allowed to not care about or even dislike whichever character they want. that does not make them homophobic or less deserving of seeing their favorite ship going canon.

Okay my bad for exaggerating slightly in the tags of a post made by a friend...

People can feel however they want about Tommy, love him, be indifferent to him, dislike him, hate him (I don't understand why you would since there's nothing to support hate for him in canon rn, but whatever), feel however you want about him I don't care. Just don't be weird about it, as in stop harassing real people (fans and actors/writers/etc.), stop being hateful in spaces where people love him, stop being violent and homophobic towards strangers on the internet, stop letting this show make you miserable and work yourself up into a frenzy, etc., etc. Too many people have been real nasty towards others lately and they don't deserve to celebrate their ship going canon as a reward for their shitty behaviour.

[th3-c0ll3ct3r]

How am I supposed to believe shelby with no proof when she has falsely accused people of abuse before? I’m not even trying to be rude it’s a genuine question. It’s like the boy who cried wolf.

Well my friend you're certainly late to the party, I'll keep it short bc it's early and I'm sleepy

The biting thing: https://youtu.be/LzOCla-USJM?si=1j7wwn1bDUFxyvra

Niki stated that wilbur but her when she first went to the UK. Like 2-3 years ago, before she even knew shelby. After leaving the UK she said it was one of the darkest times of her life.

Fundy UK vlog from 3 years ago:

Got to 2mins and 55 seconds

Shelby mentioned the holes in Wilbur's walls and how the house was absolutely disgusting.

Here you can actually SEE the hole in the wall in his bathroom like shelby has mentioned.

Their are also some Philza streams (which I'm too lazy to find he streams like everyday) be mentioned Wilbur's holes in the wall

In all of the Tommyinnit vlogs wilbur is apart of he hurt Tommy in some way. Stepping on him. Pushing him. Or disregarding Philza when it comes to tommyinnit health.

The time that he threw an apple at Technoblade RIGHT AFTER SURGERY AND WITH INTENT, inwhich it hit his arm and he laughed about it

Technodad would later go onto say he dislike Wilbur but wanted his son to be happy so allowed them to be friends

https://youtu.be/Th0kWIZF1qc?si=lc79pOxPjo-_hFEb

His violent tendency have been shown over the years in MANY example, and concern Shelby is 1 out of 5+ PEOPLE to be hurt by him I think it's wild people only blame her.

Heck even Minx called him out like 5-ish years ago and people called her delulu because she was an alcoholic

Niki said something about him and was harassed to the point of considering to quit because she was "just a women making trouble"

A decently sized number of people from the general public called him out but were either harassed or drowned out.

He's acted the way he has for YEARS and no one outside of twitter and the kids he befriended along the way, actually like him.

Do you know the amount of shitty things you have to do to get both SMAJOR and JACKSEPTICEYE to start disliking you WITHIN THE SAME MONTH FOR DIFFERENT YET STILL VIOLENT REASONS???

Wilbur even bragged about writing himself back into the dreams smp because dream was doing a a 'shit' job.

And even from a business standing he jeopardised the future of MCC because he was the update announcer, inwhich Scott again had to take some stray bullets for when removing him from MCC and at no point did Wilbur his fans to stop sending death threats to Scott and the Noxcrew but he acknowledged it on steam.

So thier is not believing shelby, but do you not believe the other countless people who have come forward about him? Because it's not just shelby he hurt.

I've not like that man for several years and I think he was bound to be caught but damn did it take people along time.

[doctorodyssey]

https://www.tumblr.com/eddiegirls/752518473419309056/i-just-what-the-fuck-are-we-doing-here?source=share

Can I also say that there are MANY queer men who very much dislike, or feel poorly represented by, or are just generally disappointed with, the manner in which Buck's arc unfolded this season and his relationship with Tommy? I don't know...on top of the misogynistic aspect this feels like a disingenuous attempt to weaponize male queerness in service of a ship war and I really find it offensive. Using 'queer men love this story, therefore it is perfect and immune from criticism, and anyone who disagrees needs to shut up' as a shield doesn't work when some of the most vocal and articulate critics of the story are, in fact, queer men.

Just don't pretend that you care so much about "own voices" when you are clearly discounting numerous of those voices! And speaking of "own voices"...as far as we know, a woman wrote the controversial Daddy joke (and YMMV on how you feel about it but opinions are valid). So miss me with the "This is how gay men talk and YOU don't understand!" BS.

completely agree on all counts!!!! the entire discourse surrounding this is so unbelievably condescending. these people are always saying shit like "i'm convinced all of them [buddie shippers and/or people who disliked the 7x10 date scene] are teenage girls who never go outside and don't have any adult relationships and never talk to IRL Queer Men." which is ridiculous for a number of reasons including 1) like you said, plenty of ppl who disliked the scene (and who ship buddie) are queer men 2) also like you said, a straight (?) woman wrote the scene 3) women are allowed to have opinions, even if they are young women with less experience than others 4) if you genuinely believe they're all children, why are you in your late 20s/30s/40s+ trying to fight with them on social media??? block and ignore??? 5) many people who disliked the scene have written long well-thought-out critiques explaining what they didn't like (incl. why it has nothing to do with "kink shaming" in the first place lmao. some of us love daddy kink and still hated it. and we are valid.)

what kills me is like, i'm sure that both buddie shippers and bcktmmy shippers are majority women/non-men, as many fandom spaces tend to be. but from my anecdotal observations, there are way more STRAIGHT women who ship bcktmmy and way more bi/lesbian/queer women who ship buddie, at least on tumblr (i do not venture into the twitter fandom much, but most buddie stans i see on there are also queer).

i just need to touch on it again - it's so fucking funny that i'm supposed to just accept the bcktmmy date scene without criticism because "that's how REAL queer men talk" when it was literally created by cishet TV writers

[flavored-soda]

I mean Eddie is 'built as fuck' and can't be 'made the girl', so I doubt its cos Buddie shippers dislike m/m sexuality between 'manly guys' or whatever

I do think the writers are making some odd choices with how they show Tommy and Buck's relationship but they make odd choices all the time so I'm not reading in to it. I get why people are uncomfy with that scene though (including Buck/ Tommy shippers)

Hi, Anon! Thank you for the ask!

I’m not so much referring to buddie shippers with that last statement. I’m referring more to the people that are upset at Buck being in a mlm relationship in the first place.

But also yes, there are still people who make Eddie “the girl” in buddie. I see things all the time about Eddie’s height, the fact that he has a kid, how he’s not as visibly bulky compared to Buck. Then again, that happens in every mlm ship. But yea, not really solely referring to buddie shippers there.

And you’re not wrong, they are making choices when it comes to showing BuckTommy. Once again, bad writing in a sea of bad writing. The placement of it was a little weird in the episode in the sense of “Oh my god, everyone just almost died or went through something horrible! But here’s a little throwaway line about BuckTommy fucking. And now Eddie is losing his kid!” I won’t argue that the placement was weird in that sense. But that’s not what I’m really talking about either.

People are allowed to critique the characters and the show. I do it all the time.

What I’m more referring to is the blatant twisting and lying about what happened in the scene to make Tommy seem like this horrible, awful person set on making Buck uncomfortable. That’s what the post is about. That’s why I’m upset and a lot of other people are too. It has nothing to do with the people that have valid critiques. It has to do with the people intentionally twisting things to make Tommy out to be a horrible person.

As far as people being uncomfortable with that scene, the only thing I really have to say is you’re watching an adult show that has made multiple sex jokes and included cut away scenes and more explicit scenes between their other couples, not sure why it was expected that it would be any different for Buck and Tommy.

That’s not to say that you’re not allowed to be uncomfortable with sex scenes and more mature scenes, that’s totally valid and understandable.

But I will say that you shouldn’t expect them to not add in those scenes or make those jokes just because it’s your favorite character or a recently out character, it’s just not a fair assumption or expectation.

But once again, that’s not what the post I made is referring to.

[tvuniverse]

Listen i just want to preface this by saying I don't even personally hate Tommy, but that's not really the point i want to make so here goes nothing.

The way a lot of people act as if it's impossible to dislike him because the characters have moved on so so should we, right? and that's the thing right here, as poc we're always being told to move on. We can't express our feelings, we can't hold grudges, we can't complain about issues without making it something more than it is, we always have to just... move on.

I know people are going to say it's just a show, it's not that serious, but the issues it touches on and the way fandom speaks on those issues are.

I've seen a lot of comparisons between Tommy and other mains, how each of them are flawed and have screwed up one way or another, and you're right, but it's still unfair to compare him to them. We've seen each of the main characters experience guilt, or be ashamed of their action, we've seen them apologise, put in the work to actually grow, and they have. There's not enough time in an episode for us to see that for side characters. In this case, Tommy didn't do any of the above and that's normal, he was a plot device to show some very real societal issues, and especially what people of colour/women might go through in the workplace, and once he served his purpose he didn't get much more beyond a few scenes where it seemed like everything was fine between him and chim/hen. It would be more appropriate to compare him to the buckley parents, (who appeared in more or less the same amount of episodes) like if people suddendly started saying no one is allowed to hate them because they got their redemption, their kids more or less forgave them, they more or less tried to be better parents. And yet it's still not enough for a lot of people, because how they treated their children, the shit they've said to them, hits a little too close to home for a lot of people and so no matter what the show says or does, they'll still be mostly hated by the audience, and that's more than okay. But if margaret buckley is your favourite character than by all means be my guest. And listen, i love this show, it's all about hope, and it means everyone gets a redemption arc, as short as it is (sometimes even just a sentence lol), but we won't always be satisfied with these arcs, especially if they don't feel proportional to the hurt the characters may have caused to our mains, so we'll all have different reactions to them.

I swear liking a morally ambiguous/grey character says absolutely nothing about you, but making excuses for them, antagonising people who might dislike them (for good reasons) or acting like suddenly triggers don't exist for people, does say something about you. One of my favourite characters is literally the worst person ever, an actual bigot, but i won't ever write essays about why people are not allowed to dislike him actually because he's my babygirl.. i very much understand why people would.

All of this to say, everyone will have different opinions about Tommy. Some might love him, some will be completely neutral or at worst slightly uncomfortable/bothered by him, and some will straight up hate him, and all of these are fine. Live and let live, love whoever you want to love, and hate whoever you want to hate, but please stop trying to dictate how others should feel, i'm begging. And this really does go both ways.

[insanityisdivine]

Get to Know Me and My Obsession with KISS 🎸

Thanks for the tag @starry-eyed-never-satisfied

1. Who is your favourite member?

Okay. Paul is my first love but sexy Ace is competing with him but god I have to say Paul.

2. Who is your least favourite member?

Everyone saying Mark. I know nothing bout him

3. Best album?

RARO ...I'm assuming studio albums and live albums don't count???

4. Worst album?

I didn't listen to their last two albums and have no intention to do so ATM

5. Favourite song?

THIS IS TOO HARD TO CHOOSE. Guess I gotta say Love Gun Though But I love C'mon and Love Me!

6. Say one nice thing about each member.

Paul- He's the STAR of KISS. I probably wouldn't have gotten into KISS if it weren't for him. Everything I adore and want to be

Gene- I wanna listen to him talk while we share milk and chocolate chip cookies together

Peter- I have a soft spot for him. I think he can be really sweet and cute

Ace- Sexy, trashy, baby girl, sexy girl in hooker boots. Wanna bend over and smack that ass. He and Paul are my bisexual fantasies. BUT SERIOUSLY, The first guitar player that made me go WOW. Never got the hype about lead guitarists before but then I was thinking of 80s rock and 80's rock solos never resonated with me. His solos are iconic, not just shredding/mindless noodling. As someone who never learned how to read music, I think it's amazing he influenced many to learn. I'd love to learn how to play. Not to be in a band but I've always wanted to play a guitar. Also, I'd love to hang out with him. He's funny and bright. I think there's softness to him and I'd like to believe (coming from a fan, of course) that he's a good person. He also reminds me of my ex early 90s era....so I guess I have a soft spot for him

Eric C- I wish I could meet him. If I had to pick one member I could meet it would be him because I know he'd be super sweet

Vinnie- talented songwriter and amazing voice. Gorgeous

Mark- He did his job on Animalize

Bruce- Super sweet. He was the cutie of the group during revenge era ngl. Paul had competition.

Eric S- Seems really funny. got a nice tight body. seems every KISS drummer has a nice bod.

Tommy- Loyal and hard working. I can see why KISS kept him. Honestly he'd the kind of guy you want in your group.

7. What do you dislike about each member?

Gene- Condescending. I can see he has some views on things that I'd butt heads with him on

Paul- Overly critical of others, may come across cold. He scares me. y'all see his posts for new years???? He can come across very hurtful in his choice of words

Peter- Bitter (in the past it seems) and tbh some of the shit I read and heard that unfortunately was allowed to slide (sometimes even passed off as "funny" stories). It's a sensitive topic for me.

Ace- like Peter, awful things said and done that cannot be solely blamed on addiction which I'm very glad he recovered from btw. I'm honestly glad I never put this man on a pedestal and it's not just because "he's human like the rest of us". lol I love him but I'm glad I've been exposed to the bad early on this obsession so I don't have any unrealistic ideas about ppl, you know? I think I need to sleep with him to sort out these feelings lol

Eric C- I don't know that much to comment and feels almost unfair because he was taken away from us much too soon

Vinnie- stop scamming people omg. the insanity and charging ppl for memberships and you haven't released shit???

Mark- don't know about him. can't comment

Bruce- Maybe too nice for his own good.

Eric S- I don't know. Should have created a sex tape with Gene

Tommy- Kinda weird seeing him try to mimic Ace's facial expressions. One thing to imitate solos and his space persona but his mannerisms? I dunno just weird to see someone mimic what Ace's face naturally does? Kissy pouty lips only work for Ace

8. How did you get into KISS?

years ago, just bombarded with their imagery and sound on TV shows

9. Have you been to a concert?

Their last show. Crushing, I know

10. Do you have any merch?

I have a shirt

11. Unique thing you have related to KISS?

None, sadly. Like I have nothing solid if that's what you mean. anything that may have in common? sure but feels too personal to share here

12. Who is/are your favourite lineup?

This is hard because early 90s KISS was TIGHT. but I'll always love the original 4, but sweet Foxy and Brucie is so precious

13. What's your favourite era?

FUCCKKK....see this is hard. I have a big soft spot for Dynasty/Unmasked but I also love DTK and HTH

14. What are your opinions on Tommy and Eric?

They did their job. If they hadn't stepped in I wouldn't have seen KISS final show and for that I am grateful. I enjoyed their participation.

15. A question you would ask the band if you could?

I'd ask if I could suck their dick. That's tough. What haven't they've been asked before? Honestly I got some questions for Ace that's been bugging me and I know I'd never get them answered unless I knew him personally and had a real heart-to-heart conversion. I dunno I can only go off from a fan's perspective about how that'll go

16. What other bands/artists are you into?

Led Zeppelin, Madonna, Kylie Minogue, Lady Gaga, Stromae, used to really like Adam Ant, The Sweet, OLP, Franz Ferdinand, Daft Punk. I listen to all kinds of genres and artists so I like what I like

17. Do you have a KISSona?

Don't have one. I'm assuming like a fursona? lol

18. Who are some of your favourite blogs?

@ladyshandioftheendless @elrohare @silverstarfoxx (thank you for tolerating all my pestering! never hesitate to reach out to me for more Ace goodies!) @notpaulsguitar @ohblackdiamond (though tbh I swear you have answered this lol) @space-frehley-22 @spacefoxy (resident eric carr connoisseur) @speckster (you have crazy ass edits) and same goes for @bangbangyou love your funny memes. the IP address as a response always gets me lol @starry-eyed-never-satisfied (you already did this but adding you here anyway fellow Paulie enjoyer!) There's many more I wish I could just mass tag KISS blogs lol. There are blogs that are no longer active but I am glad they are still around

19. If you could spend a day with one member who would it be?

Hard because I love Paul but he scares me. I think I'd need more than a day to get comfortable with him. I'd love to spend a day with Eric C or Bruce because they seem the nicest. Maybe I'd love to hang with Peter now. Gene, may be fun. He's a good talker. Though it be fun to get one-on-one time with Ace. I'd love a tour of all his tech and then we can compare and just geek out on technology.

20. How would you explain the band to someone who isn't familiar with KISS?

I don't know. Honestly the other people who answered this already gave greats explanations. So many pass judgment on them without giving them a chance. They're a one-of-a-kind experience. There will never be a band like them.

[wenellyb]

I think it's fair for fans to want to see Tommy apologize on-screen for his past behavior. For me the bad faith takes are when some fans imply that since Tommy hasn't apologized on-screen that means he hasn't changed or when some fans act as if an apology is the only way viewers will have evidence that Tommy has changed. To me that's just not true. Viewers can see that Tommy has changed through his actions. The fact that Tommy hasn't made any racist or sexist comments since season 2 (so far) shows that Tommy has changed. The fact that Tommy isn't treating Hen, Chim, or any POC poorly just because of who they are shows he has changed. Yes, it would be nice to see him apologize on-screen but on a show that's notorious for skipping on-screen apologies, fans using an apology as an indicator of if Tommy has changed or not, instead of his actions, seems like a bad faith take to me.

Unless I'm mistaken the writers on this show are mostly, if not all, white. In season 7 we saw them relate a black child's trauma to a dog's trauma. We might not see them handle Tommy's past racism any better than they have. It's possible that some of the writers think that Tommy has already been redeemed enough. People who are waiting for Tommy's redemption from being racist to be handled better might be waiting forever. I guess we'll see how season 8 goes.

Hi Anon!!! Thank you very much for sharing! I don't agree with everything, and by that I mean the fact that Tommy not making sexist or racist remarks means he has changed, but you make some very good points.

I don't expect an apology either, but I don't agree with people who say that scene with Chimney in Chimney begins was an apology.

That being said, I'm not saying Tommy hasn't changed, I'm just saying that all the "evidence" that shows Tommy has changed, wouldn't be enough evidence in real life. And also, even if he has changed it doesn't mean 911 fans have to forgive him.

Imagine having to forgive a former bully just because apparently he has changed. Him changing doesn't mean the audience has to forgive him. They can do it, or not. Both options are fine.

Other than the part about Tommy changing (I don't disagree completely I'm just saying I don't now) I agree with everything you said.

I'm writing a lot but my main point is, people can like Tommy's character or not and ship Bucktommy or not, but I think it's unfair for people to claim that people who dislike Tommy for his actions in season 2 only do it because they ship Buddie. Of course, it's the case for some of them but not all of them. And they're allowed to "hold a grudge" against the character, apology or no apology.

I derailed a bit from your ask, but thanks a lot for your input it was very interesting to read!

[ranbling]

It's so weird that people can forgive Eddie for intentionally ignoring getting help to the point he killed a man because of said anger issues... but Tommy can never change and is branded for life? His team forgave him and been in regular contact with since their incident the past 5+ years and he still cares about his team enough to risk his job but he's not allowed to be redeemable? Not saying you have to like him at all but picking and choosing "problematic" events to ignore or forgive is wild. They've all done bad things not just Tommy or Eddie or Buck. All of them.

I'm not ignoring anybody's problematic events or saying he's irredeemable (I don't even know how you got this, I just made a post how I don't understand the hype and love around him), however with others they showed us how they've changed (also Eddie didn't kill a man, just almost), but the last impression of Tommy is him being a jerk and they haven't shown him being in contact with the team (Chim might be an exception, but I'm not sure if he's the one they mentioned in s2, but that's also a one time thing). Hen doesn't seemed like someone who is in contact with him.

But just because he had what many consider a "romantic or something" moment with Buck (which I don't think so), so many people just seem to love him now and I'm sure if they had Lucy in the episode (as it was originally planned) people wouldn't he reacting that way.

Anyway I don't dislike the character (but I certainly not like him), but I do not understand the hype around him

[xnotyourdarlingx]

┌───────── ·  ·  ·  · ꒰⚘݄꒱₊

Hello ! It's Aries again ! Currently, I'm searching for somebody to write for The Last of Us with. I would love to write my OC against Joel Miller ! While I have not touched the second game yet, I've played the first one and have started watching the show (because, come on, Pedro Pascal). So I am willing to write Ellie when she's older because I will never write for / against a minor. Willing to write Joel Miller, too, as long as he's written for me in return.

All of it will be done over Discord and anybody I write with must ( considering I'm 21 ) be 20+ ! My writing style is semi literate to literate with the flexibility to mirror whoever I'm writing with. We will discuss any triggers beforehand so nobody is uncomfortable ! It can be the normal storyline or an alternate universe where the outbreak never happened—and I am more than okay with side roleplays that are AU based if we stick with the main storyline.

Please reach out to me if you're interested or message me on Discord (tag: starri.eyed) ! Just make sure to include your name, age and that it's for this roleplay.

Writing sample under the cut !

"Understandable. Your body running on adrenaline until it's close to giving out on you but your mind refusing to shut off," a chuckle accompanied Yue's sympathetic statement—bitter and despondent. Learning to acknowledge the way your mind shifting through a million dark thoughts is normal and accepting it are two entirely seperate concepts. Yue's struggling with the former, even though they've seen no progress in developing a cure for the virus, and this has become commonplace.

Regardless, getting to a normal life after experiencing too much brain-altering trauma sounded impossible. How do you go from witnessing the fall of humanity to asking somebody if they passed that important exam they had last week? Yue no longer believed herself capable of forming a bond with anybody. At least not in the capacity that was so normal when she was in high school. Now it was all 'did you come across anymore infected' and intolerable silence. One that conveyed what everybody probably wondered. Why did this happen? Has God abandoned us? Did clinging to religion help sanity recede slower or did people recklessly abandon it all after realizing no loving God could allow their children to be subjected to this much torture?

It's pleasantly shocking to hear the stranger's acceptance. Although they're residing in Jackson City where everything's relatively more relaxed—shaking off the survival instincts that you've had hardwired into your brain is arduous. Yue's stifling laughter at the comment. "I've got a funny way of talking? Mind you, I've been pressured to excel in my studies from a young age so accomodating my vocabulary to - " The woman pauses with measured caution. "Let's just say I wanted to be a nurse. This conversation could be a whole lot worse. Besides, you're the one who's got that Southern accent. Mind you, I love Southern accents so it's not a slight against you but..." A semblance of a smile is playing on Yue's lips. "Do you also have strange sayings and wear those hats that have a bunch of etiquette? And go to rodeos?"

A downfall to interacting with Yue is the incessant talking—except it's mainly when she's working through nerves. Meeting a new person who's related to Tommy's for sure going to enhance the initial anxiety. Of course she won't treat him extra special for it but it might destroy her to be kicked out of this community. Especially once you factor in the conditions of surviving outside Jackson City. It is Heaven for a world like theirs. Yue nodded, however, playing it off all casual. "The night skies can make it easier for people and infected to sneak up on you but we work it to our advantage, as well. Not that I blame you for taking a disliking to something so beautiful that can be weaponized against us... It's a shame. Astronomy is wonderful. There are many stories attributed to the constellations."

Yue pondered at Joel's introduction and with hesitance, outstretched a hand. "Pleasure to meet you, Joel Miller. I'm Yue. Ming Yue. I heard you came in with a girl. Does she happen to be your daughter?" Subtly observing Joel's physical appearance—Yue mentally notes the glaring age gap as seen in his graying hair. "Always better to have more helping hands. My guess is you're experienced on the field, right? Sounds like you're stuck in permanent survival mode. Which is not a bad thing and - no, wait, I'm not meaning to call you old. Sorry. You don't look that old." Now would be a good time for her to shut up, actually, before she insults him any more.

"Let's... Focus on walking now, before I say something that's.. Unintentionally rude."

[qprstobin]

I don’t understand why you’re so caught up in what other people choose to interpret as canon what does “acting like this is canon” even mean. we know nothing about steve’s parents apart from slight clues that people take a lot of liberty with interpreting, you included. also fanon popular stobin is way off from canon stobin too. so why is it such an issue when people take details about the other characters and interpret them how they want. the whole tommy and carol thing, you just don’t want them to be shitty people, you love steve so much but you’re fixated on makings excuses for them and trying to downplay how awful they were to him. it makes no sense. he wants nothing to do with them, they were never his real friends and that is canon

I mean I just get frustrated with people taking non-canon things as canon because people use it as an excuse to bash characters and their fans lol. The whole post that prompted this was someone claiming that Steve let Tommy and Carol bully Robin back when they were friends, and that was why she had a good reason to dislike him before (in response to a mutual saying that Robin's reasons for disliking Steve were petty). That's exactly what I mean when I say "acting like something is canon". That doesn't exist in the show! People made that up! But people are talking about it like it's true and not just their headcanons.

Also where did I take liberties with Steve's parents lmao. His dad is a cheater, Steve says that on screen. Can't remember the last time I made a meta or headcanon post about his parents.

I also never said that Carol and Tommy weren't shitheads, I just don't think they were bullies and that I don't think canon supports the common claim that they were bullies. They were assholes but so is.... everyone in the show? The kids spend an entire episode calling El "the psycho" instead of her name lmao. I also disagree that they were so incredibly horrible to Steve or were never his real friends because they seem pretty close on screen but that is something that I think we don't see enough of to tell for sure!

Honestly, even if they were horrible to Steve, I am in fact allowed to like characters my fave doesn't get along with lol. Like I disagree that that is what the text of the show tells us, but it's weird to me to be like "oh I HAVE to hate those characters because they were mean to my fave :((( I'm not allowed to think that they are more nuanced than just being mean to my fave :((("

[mcytblrconfessions-but-bad]

The DreamWasTaken2 subreddit is pure hell. Dream is not some baby he knows damn well what's going on with Mr Beast he just dgaf

Also I'm not even an Inniter. I think Tommys a fucking annoying cunt. But they take it way too far? Like yeah obviously he's playing up his dislike for them somewhat but come the fuck on. You think after dealing with the DTeam's bullshit for four years, he's gonna be all happy happy with them? Fuck that! He's had to deal with notifs everyday from their annoying ass stans ever since 2020. Also him interacting with George isn't really surprising. The shitshow that was the George-Caiti drama was a mess of he said she said he did this she did that. Unlike the Wilbur thing, nobody claimed to be another victim and afaik nobody claimed to be a witness. Did everyone officially drop George except the DTeam when it was happening? Yeah. But literally everyone had unofficially dropped the DTeam (including George who was barely involved in the MCYT community btw) by the time the situation happened anyway! Every ccs reaction to that was just announcing what was already known: that they had no intention of interacting with the DTeam regularly anymore

Don't even get me started on the shit with Dream and MrBeast. Dream is not some kicked puppy who ran away from reading his timeline after he got traumatised by his pandemic-era fanbase. He knows damn well all the shit going on with MrBeast, he just doesn't give a fuck. He learned how to shut his trap about his opinion, but he hasn't learned how to shut his trap about controversial people/situations in general. Like what possessed him to say that? A shot at relevancy after he (relatively) fell off? Whether or not the allegations were true, I think it can be said that the DTeam, all of them, are terrible people. If Dream was willing to promote (and don't you dare say reviewing isn't promoting) MrBeast, KSI, and Logan Paul's cancer lunchables then he's a shit person. If Dream was willing to promote the product of someone running around with a pedo and a sex offender on his team, he's a shit person. If the DTeam was all chill with Dream doing this, they're shit people

Yes I did write an essay about this subreddit which most likely gives no fucks. I'm allowed to be frustrated

.

[itssideria]

[/rp. gonna preface this w saying tommy is my favorite character on the smp, c!dream is a Villain and i am always waiting for him to get fucked up, and i do actually care a lot about the lore and the integrity of the storywriting!!]

anyways, uh. yeah too many people in the dash are making this about c!tommy, so. reminder!

c!tommy is not the main character. he is not the only only character. the storyline is not exclusively about him. too many people in the dash are treating him like he is, and i don't know if its just being emotional in the heat of the moment or if it's actual, honest crit, but it's dismissive and hypercritical and weird. i have my own reservations with that stream--bad pacing, weird progression between plot points, a lack of flow and no follow-through on build-up--but 'the way they talked about tommy' is not one of them. and i'm seeing a lot of narrative/character decisions being criticised when they honestly make a lot of sense?

first up! tubbo! pretty much everything this boy did today was to save michael. literally the only goal was to save michael. through that lens, pretty much anything touting tubbo's decisions as unrealistic falls flat. "tubbo should not work with techno!" his son is kidnapped and he needs a valuable ally. "so he should just team up w the man who freed his best friend's abuser?" yes, because his son is kidnapped and he needs a valuable ally. "how dare he accept techno's apology so fast?" his son is kidnapped and he needs a valuable ally. "why's he forgiving him?" that's?? tubbo's thing? that he forgives and forgets, over and over, especially when it doesn't serve him? we've seen this before! it's not new! quite frankly nothing tubbo did this stream was new for his character, come on now!

the techno crit is slightly different. as someone who has disliked c!technos hypocrisy and refusal to apologise for months, can someone tell me why exactly we're mad at him for finally apologising today?

i understand the gist of it--it was rushed, fast, not well spoken, awkward. tubbo said sorry first before techno responded. tldr, it wasn't a good apology. guess what! that's all true. but, guess what else! that doesn't negate the fact that it is still an apology. it is still an attempt to set things right. and like--techno did a lot of things that showed him trying to set things right. he let tubbo take charge of the mission ("techno, why are you walking in front?" "i can walk in the middle.") he lent him ranboo's axe. he encouraged him to hold all of ranboo's things in the vault. he told tubbo to fuck sam up. he invited tubbo to live where it was safe in the antarctic commune. technoblade is, for the first time, literally doing all the right things. whether his progression was too fast is its own crit, seperate from this stream. but for fuck's sake, you can't demand for him to do something specific for once and then get mad when he actually does it. just! holy shit! let the man breathe!

and of course, all of this comes around to center on a character that wasn't even brought up--tommy. i don't know how to word this except by saying that like. this isn't tommy's stream. they are fully, unequivocally allowed to Literally Not Care. especially in the case of cc!tubbo and cc!eret, who are trying to ease themselves back into lore for the first time in months. they're allowed to focus on the plot being advertised as the main draw of the stream and not bring up tommy. yes, even if it means making jokes about the prison. yes, even if it means ignoring that technoblade freed dream. the characters openly acknowledged that they were only teamed up because of this very specific set of circumstances, and tubbo still stood up to their bullshit and demanded an apology. again! pacing and execution was a little iffy. but they are quite literally allowed to fuck up and just not mention certain things. these are all things that are happening for now--who knows! maybe tommy will be brought up next time!! maybe eret will shit on techno for freeing dream! maybe techno will face consequences and have to apologise!!! None Of Us Know!!! i joke that i can't watch any lore without making it about tommy, but this is genuinely getting toxic. it's not supposed to be about tommy. the cc's are trying to give us something cool, and i liked their attempt! please stop crucifying their every move.