#I wonder what would be the length

[getintok]

I just find it really funny when people that got into the fandom a few days ago and are like "I watched all the variety shows and interviews and it's soooo obvious how much they disliked Seungri 🤓☝️" like ???? are you okay?? Because it must be so frustrating watching all those moments where the boys are like "Seungri is so precious to me/us, we love him a lot, he's the best maknae" the way GD is always seeking Seungri, touching him and laughing at every little thing he does, how all of them couldn't stop talking about him and TOP literally couldn't, for the love of god, stop posting pictures of him in diverse situations and the fact that YB decided to call SR before any family member or close friend and it must be so hard for you to do all those mental gymnastics to make it fit into your own narrative. Like, it may be that now they have no contact with him but from that to say that they always hated him is a reach specially when in all the time they spend together it was never brought up the narrative that they don't liked Seungri. Not even once, because it wasn't like that. You may hate him but you can't erase all those moments, happiness and hardships they shared together.

[tathrin]

Hey, so do you ever stop to think about how the premise of Lord of the Rings being an in-universe book written by some of the characters who lived through that story means that they decided what parts and perspectives to use to tell that story...?

And when our authors weren't there to experience the events themselves, they have to rely on what they're told about them by the characters who were there, right...?

Okay so stop and think about the Glittering Caves.

We never actually go to the caves in the narrative. Tolkien LOVES describing nature and natural beauty, but we don't actually see the caves described "by him" the way we do other places. Obviously Gimli's words are Tolkien's, yes; but we only see the caves filtered through his words about them, after the fact.

When Gimli and Éomer and the other Rohirrim take refuge there, the narrative doesn't follow them. Obviously from a narrative standpoint this is to keep the focus narrow, and not to interrupt the battle-sequence with a long ode to the beauty of the caves, and to create tension in the reader who doesn't know if these characters are okay or not. Which all makes sense!

But think about it in terms of the book that was written in Middle-earth by the folk living there. Why DON'T we get to have a direct experience of those caves? Gimli obviously related several other parts of the story that none of the Hobbits were there to witness to them, and which were written into the books as Direct Events Happening In The Narrative (think of the Paths of the Dead scene, for one of the more visceral moments!). So why not the Glittering Caves?

Was it because they wanted to keep that narrative focus and tension, and so they didn't include his perspective on that part of the battle? Perhaps, that's certainly a possibility to consider.

But also consider: when we do hear about the Glittering Caves, what we hear is Gimli telling Legolas about the Glittering Caves. THAT is the part of that event that is considered of importance to include in the book: not Gimli's actual experience when he was in them, but rather the part where he relates that experience TO Legolas.

And I kind of just THOUGHT about that today.

And went HUH.

[waitineedaname]

on this reread I decided I'm gonna underline each time sqq says something blatantly untrue as if it's a fact, does or thinks something deranged, or just generally acts like an insane person. folks, I'm not even done with the first chapter and things are already not looking good

[illmoraineakoi]

You know what would be interesting...

Is if Yellow made his own channel, just to spite Green.

And the others join in, because they're all upset and annoyed with Green's recent behavior, and they want to get back at him, just a little bit. Beat him at his own stupid game. Make him see that it's not worth it and snap him out of it.

Yellow's smart. He can film and edit just as well as Green could. Technology is one of his strongest traits.

They start making content themselves, videos of them actually having fun and enjoying themselves, like how it was always meant to be for them, videos like Green promised to give us but hasn't been able to because of the conflict between them.

And we, the audience, Green's audience, who are freshly upset with him for his behavior towards Yellow and uncomfortable with his influencer decent, flock to Yellow's channel en mass. Both to show Yellow love and support, but also to spite Green as well. To punish him as the internet is wont to try to do towards those it becomes angry towards.

And it upsets Green. Angers him. Makes him feel like he's lost control, like they've stolen this from him.

And pushes him into doing something dramatic...

[babymillennial]

At the risk of setting off a bomb in the Aaravos and Leola fandoms, I do wonder if we ever talk about how--if Aaravos's description of his daughter is accurate--she would probably hate what he's become in her absence.

[mulders-too-large-shirt]

s2 episode 19 thoughts

did you ever want to see mulder and scully die of old age? well, you're in luck! this episode was made for you <3

i'm giggling. who came up with this concept?

when i was reading the plot description, i kept thinking of all those memes a few years back about the beach that makes you old. it was referencing the plot of the m. night shyamalan movie with this very concept, aptly titled "old"... good to know he isn't the first one to come up with such a topic. also we moved on from that meme too fast because it was hilarious.

okay. let's go.

pause. we open on a boat at sea. i haaaate boats. we seriously need to stop getting on boats because it seems that only bad things follow.

some people are leaving this boat. and a guy threatens to stop them. but he doesn't. and they climb into a lifeboat and sail off.

those who sailed off in the sailboat have been found by another boat. they were sailing the seas and playing blackjack. blackjack is great, boats less so. these new guys are tying to rope in those from the lifeboat for help, but they're not being super responsive. this is because they have become very old men.

(i was trying to think about how i would respond to finding a rescue boat full of old men on the open ocean, and i think i would assume it was a cruise wreck. recently read an article about the secret world of cruises. fascinating stuff)

((anyway, when we're looking at these newly old men, you can tell that it is in fact the same young actors under a bunch of makeup, and it's an eerie thing to view. baby old men))

at this point, i asked the question on everyone's mind: are we going to speedrun the whole msr thing by throwing them on this boat? like, skipping to growing old together? it's almost romantic, in a way

anyway, back to the present day. after the newly old men have been rescued. mulder calls scully to a hospital, and thanks her for coming without explanation.

she has freckles and he has to bend down to whisper to her, two things i enjoy greatly.

he wants her to go in and talk to the one survivor of the whole thing, and they wouldn't let him in, so her medical background is a good excuse, and he got her clearance. he tells her to figure out what is going on then come back to his office, and instead of listening to her try and ask questions, he grabs her shoulders and says thank you. and leaves.

she is baffled. for a man like him, a shoulder grab probably explains everything.

(this has prompted contemplation on that man and his relationship to physical touch. i just know he'd cry if given a nice long hug)

so she goes in the room and picks up the chart, and despite the fact that a very old man is sitting on the table there, she sees his chart says he's supposed to be like 25. so she asks why there hasn't been a full investigation and the physician comes in and says "i wasn't aware that my diagnostic decisions required your approval"

OOP. an awkward situation! she must have chased mulder off. and while it may be a bit weird to have another doctor burst into your patient's room, is this not a valid question to ask???

the physician demands scully show her clearance, which she does, and she is told it is invalid, and to get out now before she is removed. which is sus as hell!!!! what are they hiding...

back to mulder's office. she walks in and tosses her coat on his chair. ah, casual intimacy of cohabitation. i love you dearly.

and this man is deeply touchy today... he must have known he was setting her up to get yelled at in the hospital and this is his way of saying sorry. that's my best guess, anyway.

he's got a map pinned on the wall and he's pointing out all the ships that have gone through the area and disappeared, and as i began to make my average declaration- that this was "nerd behavior"- my phone began to predict the text for me. well! it is consistent at least.

"do you know anything about the philadelphia project?" he asks scully. and she explains it to him, but i had to google to see if it was a real thing. and actually, i had heard of it before, because the u.s.s. eldridge makes a very brief cameo in season 1 of loki!! but it seems to be mostly a thing that didn't happen. i'll have to look into at a later date.

mulder proposes that those involved with the teleportation philadelphia project must still be at it, and they are using this area to explore wormholes on earth.

(scully exhales quietly) "wormholes." <- god-tier reaction

he decides to head out to norway and investigate, and she wants to come!! woohoo 8:30 flight to norway!!

they're in the norwegian bar. looking cute. asking for help re:area where boats are going mia. but no one wants to help!

until a very conveniently placed american over hears them! and he has a ship that can take them out there! ahh, storytelling conventions <3

he says he'll take them out there, but he is the only one who will do so, because all the others think that there is an evil god in the sea. and evil god or not, i am not sure i trust this man who offers to give them a ride.

NOOOO poor mulder is getting seasick :( he seems to have lost his quick tongue in the war against the ocean:

"you're lucky you inherited your father's legs", he says to scully. "what," she deadpans, smiling. "his SEA legs", he clarifies, and she laughs while he is in misery.

(and this was sosososo cute <3)

they have been on the boat for 12 hours...... i would have simply perished!!!

they then CRASH into another ship and he is suffering even MORE immensely

so they climb onto this ship they ran into, and it looks old and rusty, like 20 or 30 years hanging out in the ocean rusty, but it was launched in 1991. soooo things are not adding up!!!!

they go in and investigate the giant old ship, and they encounter some bodies that have been, like, crystalized? super old and dead and crystalized. shoutout to the props team for that fr.

and scully looks both terrified and deeply intrigued. the medical curiosity has set in.

NOOOO! someone took their ship that they arrived there on!!! they are stuck on the boat full of very old dead crystal people!

there's a little montage here of scully and mulder trying to fix stuff and it was really really cute. yeah get your tools and go fix something man. get under there. it doesn't work out, but it wasn't for lack of trying.

the american guy who took them out is getting pissed they aren't telling him the Truth so he tries to explain the wormhole theory. and he isn't buying it and getting More pissed. this could have been easily avoided by Not Getting on the Boat.

NOOOO the other crew member that joined them had his skull cracked!!! are there any old people doing some skull smashing on this boat?!?

AUGH the boat is such a perfect setting for horror. the persistent Wetness. the quiet except for light dripping noises. the maze-like construction of the big old ship. confined spaces. it is simply not for meeeeee

oh okay. guy in the freezer sipping jack. he says time got lost. sure. it seems we have found our Skull Smasher.

the american guy whose ship was stolen is getting even MORE pissed and honestly i feel like he has the right to be. his friend is dead his ship is gone he is stranded on a boat of crystalized old people. truly L after L is being delivered. and as he goes to bury his friend at sea, even singing a little song for him, a dude comes and tries to crack HIS skull with a pipe??!? (so maybe old man sipping jack DIDN'T do the killing? i honestly don't remember sorry)

mulder stops pipe man from beating the americn ship captain... wow... so heroic <3 and american guy is like, oh i know this dude... he's a PIRATE WHALER... he sells whales on the BLACK MARKET.... i wish him to suffer immensely. remember when a fungus grew out of people a few episodes ago? yeah he deserves that. get eaten by bugs. you stay away from the whales you sick freak. but he is kinda hot and that is NOT be excusing him i just have eyes and can see. hot pirate whalers still get the cruelest of punishments in my book.

NOOOO the old man sipping jack has died. and is turning into salt. real sodom and gomorrah ass situation.

mulder declares that it is time to get rest, in an environment in which rest is impossible. and honestly, he is brave as hell for persisting and taking the first watch despite having dealt with seasickness, let alone being trapped on a boat full of old salty dead people and having just apprehended a pirate whaler. give him a raise, for he has suffered.

he takes his shift, and goes to wake scully up for the next one. and she mumbles about having just fallen asleep, to which he offers her a few more minutes

AUGHHH my heart. my heart my heart. this man is Suffering but he still offers to stand guard for a few more minutes. so she can sleep. oh i would have married him on the spot i'm sorry.

she insists that she is up and everything is adorable and sweet until.

WHAT!!! they are old!!!!

the image of these two in their Old Person makeup was making me laugh so hard, so i once again asked "who came up with this episode", but here's the tea: the pirate whaler guy isn't getting old!!! and, as scully points out, their hair isn't falling out or turning grey... strange.

she proposes that they are... drifting towards something... electrical... magnets... i'm sorry queen u lost me. too much science jargon. i'm sure it's a good theory i just have no understanding what it is you're saying.

oh. and blood is dripping from the ceiling. while the evil whale killer serves looks in the corner. fuck you, freak.

they go off to investigate the dripping blood (actually rust!) and they leave american ship captain to guard the pirate whaler. and oh man, he is gonna let him go, isn't he...

our agents are climbing into the sewage hold. bad place to me, imo. and ohhhh they think it is related to the water! non-sewage water = makes you old. cutscene to american ship captain, who has shot pirate men, lapping from the toilet like a dog.

mulder and ship captain man are fightinggggg... old man violence

scully demands everyone do a blood test, which had me asking: how did she test their blood on a ship? does she just keep that sort of equipment around? anyway, it shows waaaaay too much salt.

and NOOOO mulder is doing worse than the others because he has been dehydrated from seasickness :(

(again, i made note of the fact that they looked crazy and this was such a ridiculous plot for an episode)

he presents her with his urine for testing. that is true friendship.

the american ship guy says that mulder isn't gonna make it, and they should look out for themselves. okay good try you dumb bitch but they WILL die for each other.

cutscene to mulder lying in his cot, dying of old age. typical king activities. the water isn't working on him for some reason!!!

(who did this old person makeup... the girls are scared)

american ship guy is in the sewage area gulping all the water. "go ahead and shoot me if you think i'll let mulder have another drop" <-okay but she Will kill you. like you get that right.

(he escapes death by locking himself into the container)

this sends scully into a frantic search for any sort of liquid, and she's holding up a snow globe, and i have the realization, oh man, she's gonna drink the snow globe water, and they are gonna have to go to the hospital even more than before

"it's sardine juice, half a dozen lemons, and the water from a snow globe" <- new worst meal just dropped

(get her as a bartender NOW. i want to see what other fucked up concoctions she can create if given the resources)

he says that she should drink it, and tells her to stop being stubborn, she's more likely to live. and he WILL resign himself to death for her. which is A Lot. they are arguing about who gets to drink it and it's really sweet and sad and they look scary.

noOoOOOo there is a big THUNK and the jar falls on the ground and CRACKS. and now water is coming in!!! and the guy that locked himself in the sewage hold is gonna drown!!!

this is not promising for anyone else. at this point i was asking if they were gonna just lay down and die together, and if so, would it involve having a talk about their Feelings before death?

scully promises mulder that she learned there is nothing to fear after death when she began to drift off in her coma. oh my heart. talking about her Worst experience in the entire world so her friend can die in peace. knowing that it will be okay. ohhhh man, i need to unpack this at a later date.

so she closes his eyes and he drifts out of consciousness, and she's writing down detailed notes as she goes, but finally the pen slips from her hand and... they're gone

UNTIL!!! HELP ARRIVES LATER!!! and they bring them into the hospital to desalinate them. and they are able to be saved because scully kept impeccable records the whole time!

OH. and who is tending to them but the physician who kicked scully out of the other guy's room at the beginning of the episode!!!!

so the ship sank. and that was that. the end.

and where does that leave us?

well, honestly, i'm torn. because there were some very sweet moments in this episode- poor seasick mulder, fighting over who gets the potion, him letting her sleep a little longer, her sharing what happens after you die to give him a sense of calm- but it was also taking place while they were in scary old person makeup, so it had its ups and downs.

[nest-being]

there is not enough caffeine in the world to address how tired i am 🥴

[colourful-void]

umineko sliding scale as of rn for me to how sympathetic i find each character (not necessarily how much i like, just like. i get where they're coming from) as of right now bcs theres like a bunch more of the story so its bound to change.

"i was born to understand your visions" -> maria and shannon "i really feel for you here" -> natsuhi and kanon "yeah, i get it" -> kumasawa, jessica, kirie "parts of you i cannot resonate with, but others i am either compelled by or can understand" -> battler and rosa "no paticular thoughts" -> genji, the doctor i forgot his name, "more of you i dont sympathize with than i do, but there's still elements" -> eva, hideyoshi "you're gonna have to show me something more for me to understand where you're coming from" -> gohda, krauss, rudolf "i dont sympathize with you (as i understand you now.) -> george and kinzo

beatrice exists outside the scale bcs i dont understand anything shes got going on but i am compelled. maybe once let sjust let her win i wanna see where this goes

[caeslxys]

"I’ve seen a lot of people say that the Hells will side with the gods and I don’t think I agree. Especially as Imogen has been scolded and villainized over and over for daring to try and save her mother—who herself has been seen by some as an irredeemable evil in spite of her drive being the exact same—her family—but when it’s the Gods it��s justified? When it’s the Gods, it’s sympathetic? Too sympathetic to criticize further than “they’re family”?"

good meta op, but i'm slightly confused about this part. are you talking of the fandom here or the narrative? because from what i've seen and remember, imogen has definitely been scolded or villanized as you say, by the fandom, but has she been treated that way by the hells or anyone else? i guess keyleth comes to mind, but apart from that, the hells seemed supportive of her wanting to reach out and reconcile with her mom.

Prefacing what i'm sure will be an overly long mostly tangent: you obviously do not have to agree with my interpretations of any scene I'm about to bring up and if you don't sick cool please do not make it a problem

A bit of both, to be honest! The use of the word “villainizing” was definitely more geared toward fandom response, but Imogen has absolutely been scolded—or maybe shamed is the better word—in campaign several times! Yes by Keyleth threatening her in front of them all just for being ruidusborn and related to Liliana, but also by Orym in particular several times.

Which is not to say that Orym doesn’t want Imogen to save her mother—obviously he does!—but it has definitely been more than once that he has shut down her grief and her processing her relationship with her mother by inserting his own grief over it, notably in the immediate aftermath of Ruidus and convo with Liliana.

(Which, yes, he immediately apologized for, but I do find it interesting that Imogen got shit from fandom for her response in the scene I'm about to bring up in episode 49 for EVER but no one was allowed to criticize Orym's response as impulsive and insensitive there and he notably was not disassociating or being actively manipulated. Just think it's interesting!)

And while it wasn’t nearly so livid in it’s delivery, that moment in 49 where she was just trying to process seeing her mother and speaking with her and being presented with the idea of peace for the first time in her life was delivered (though you could argue this wasn’t his intent; honestly I don’t think it was, but—) in a way that immediately had her plummeting into self-deprecating apologies for being effectively manipulated. I’ve actually written a bit before about how I find the youth of his grief making it more volatile in comparison to the rest of the hells’ grief deeply compelling as a thematic beat!

That’s a bit of a tangent just bc I find specifically the dynamic between Orym/Imogen/Liliana to be a very compelling one lmao but even in the Uthodurn arc with Chetney insight checking her to see if she was telling the truth or not about her intentions with her mother. Or Fearne bringing up to Orym (also back in 49) the question of what they planned to do with/to her if she turned. It's not that I think, necessarily, that those were ill intentioned but they were coming from a place of, at best, mistrust specifically because of her connection to Liliana. Really only Ashton and Laudna—and FCG, funnily enough—have not in some way taken her grief and yearning and turned against her when it comes to placing their trust in her (whether she was aware they did so or not), which of course speaks to a certain interpretation they had of her character at the time.

And, also, this has obviously since changed and most of them mostly understand where she’s coming from now—especially Orym!—but it doesn’t make the fact that it happened any less true!

[mamorigami]

i think its so inevitable for the team to take up a 100 yr quest at SOME point in time so i might keep the idea that they're doing it, but i won't involve the story & plotlines in the current series. do u get me.

[saltlickmp3]

GUYS turns out i can actually do a fantastic tenth dr cosplay using just clothes i already have!!!!!!

brown pants blue button down shirt (even has brown pinstripes like the inverse of his coat) brown waistcoat, blue green brown plaid tie, and i have this really long brown corduroy coat i almost never wear but it fucks hard i swear, and a pair of sneakers like yeah!!!! i'm the doctor!!!!!!! david tennant gender!!!!!!!!!!!

[nebulastarss]

get lizarded :)

Gasp!

What a delightful little lad!

[randomnameless]

Localization discourse has started to rear its head again because of some Funimation localizer defending a line from Dragon Maid but it really got me thinking, I feel like so many people are so quick on demonizing anyone who doesn't like localization changes as pro-GG when it's much more simpler. People don't hate localization changes because of the message itself but rather because it's not what the character is saying 9/10 and it comes off as calculated and cynical. I feel like it's kind of a direct consequence of transformative fandom, with the whole "I'm going to write the story the way I want it to be and fill up the spaces" but instead of a fanfic it's with the original source material.

Pro GG?

What is GG? AI?

I remember this argument of the "it's not what the character is saying" and people being pissed because they couldn't get the "right" script - and tbh, after reading some arguments here and there, localisation always comes with necessary changes/adaptation to the text, let it be grammatically or to convey ideas from a language to another, so if you want a 100% faithful script then... better start to learn the language lol

With Funimation though...

The Shinchan earlier post was telling enough of my opinion about drastic changes that aren't used to transcribe a meaning or convey an idea to a foreign audience, it's just... erasing the source material and swapping your own ideas on them.

Like, uhhh

Funimation acquired the Shin-chan US license in 2005. Funimation's dub takes many liberties with the source material and was heavily Americanized. Many sexual references, dark humor, and references to then-current popular American culture were added, including many jokes about subjects such as Jews, terrorism, and Viagra. Characters were given significantly different personalities and new, previously non-existent backstories. For instance, Shin is refused an allowance, on he basis that he could use it to buy drugs (crystal meth), his schoolmate Kazama ('Georgie Herbert Walker Prescott III' in this dub) was an absurdly hawkish ultra-conservative Republican, the unseen father of Nene (known in the dub as "Penny") was suggested to be physically abusive towards both his wife and daughter, Principal Enchou was rewritten as a half Romani, half Peruvian man with a complicated, checkered backstory that includes a stint as an accident-prone magician, The kids' teacher: Yoshinaga-sensei (known in the dub as "Miss Polly"), was rewritten as a kinky and often domineering nymphomaniac,

The earlier Vitello and Phuuz dub also edited some jokes and/or what was considered indecent exposure like shin's buttocks and tried to "occidentalise" a few references, but it wasn't like straight up changing what a character is or their personality!

No doubts funimation was "authorised" by whoever had the rights of the franchise to lolcalise and edit it as they did but it just comes out as a "why did they rewrite that stuff like they did", to make more money, to make another "mature cartoon" like Family Guy expy, idk.

And to be honest... I don't really care, because I grew up with the Vitello Dub and read some manga chapters of Shin-chan, so I know what the manga/anime (sure, the dog wasn't named lucky but shiro!) is supposed to say and/or be about.

I don't agree when you say those "lololcalisations" are a consequence of the transformative fandom in general, transformative works have existed since... forever lol (some dude wrote in the early middle ages (grégoire de Tours?) how Franks are descendans of Achilles or something to explain how kickass his king and his people are like, at this point, he's writing a self-insert OC story, right?)

But in modern times, there used to be a clear (?) divide between what was transformative work and what was canon - 50 Shades of Grey sort of started as a Twilight fanfic, but it became its own thing and no calls it a Twilight adaptation or "Twilight" anymore.

The Aeneid? Despite what devoted fans wants the world to believe, is "just" a fanfiction, aka someone writing about the characters he """loves""" no matter how OOC they are. It's a Fodlan fanfic and treated as such. Or should lol.

Still, if in a fanfic, Flayn can apologise for being born as a lizard because having lizard blood means she's automatically evil and oppresses humanity due to the fact she exists, it's only a fanfic. It's not something I like, OOC as fuck, but okay, moving on. Rhea eating ketchup is my own hc, also OOC since we don't see her eating any in the games, same thing - but fanfics are OOC by essence because they're a transformative work !

As I said, okay, moving on.

But when what is supposed to be as close as "canon", albeit translated, dips in the same "OOC" territory?

Sure, Eng!Raphael will say "I" instead of "ore" to refer to himself - and yet, imo, if professional localisers (at least the people picked by the company to bring games to an international audience!) have some sort of leeway with canon, their work is inherently transformative - since they're localising -they are still bound by some rules, unlike a fanfic author, because the aim of their work is not the same.

When you write a fanfic, you write it for yourself, to tell the story you want.

Of course it depends, like the funi shin chan dub showed, but usually, I think, when you are a professional localising something (a manga, anime, book, tv series, myth, story, anything!) you are supposed to only bring "necessary" changes to the source material to bring this source material to the "targeted audience".

And it's kind of hard to determine at what point is a "change" necessary or not - back in the 2000, "Jonouchi" had to be changed in "Joey" because, supposedly, non japanese children wouldn't be able to understand/connect/watch/idk a show with a foreign name (even here in France, we got "Petit Coeur" aka Small/Little Heart for... Piccolo in the early 90s!) - but now in the 2020s Midorima isn't dubbed "Mike".

(even if 2013 saw a localised Fates edit "Suzukaze" to "Kaze" for reasons as foggy as Fodlan's 10k years of lore)

And we of course have the notion of "targeted audience" - here in France, in the 90s, basically any "animated cartoon" was supposed to be targeted for children, like 3 to 10 years old. Which is the reason why we got lunar dubs for Hokuto no Ken and City Hunter (no "brothels", but instead, "vegetarian restaurants"!).

Yugioh was dubbed for a younger audience than, I guess, what was the targeted audience for the manga (even the original anime, regardless of the dub or not, feels like it was made for younger "children" than the ones who would read the manga!).

And this is where I wanted to come with the modern "transform the source material!" lolcalisations - are they "heavily" edited because they target a specific audience?

Like... the funimation Shinchan dub was obviously not aimed at children the manga, or even the original anime, hell even the Vitello dub, were targeting.

It's almost as if we're not talking about "bringing this definite thing to random people", but "finding/tweaking random things to definite people".

Take Fodlan's lolcalisation, especially Treehouse/Pat's.

NoA was the only regional branch to have, on the official website, something like "the Church controls Fodlan".

Through the 4 (already 4!) years of coverage, some people are still finding dub exclusive lines that portray the CoS as "BaD" or in a more negative light than the original text. Pat completely missed (or was it on purpose?) Rhea's character, so Leigh had to dub Rhage, when Supreme Leader was scrubbed off her most, uh, dubious personality traits (tfw no information campaign anymore :( or calling Rhea a Nabatean as an insult :()

Why? Why those changes? Is it because Pat/Treehouse didn't want to bring the game to the US, but wanted to bring this game to the "Dany revolution yas slay kween" crowd + the "organised religion especially catholicism BaD" crowd? Or because they thought bringing "a game" to this crowd would bring more money than to bring "Fire Emblem Three Houses" to the general US crowd? So they "reworked" FE16 to have messages that would attract this certain crowd ?

(and apparently it worked, iirc the US sales made up for 50% of FE16's sales, so it was very popular (and profitable!!))

The Pat/Treehouse changes weren't "necessary" to understand the source material, or try to find similar references (a trip to a hot spring in Shinchan was replaced with a trip to Paris, because children who might not be familiar with japan might not know what is a hot spring, or what a "trip to the hot spring" is supposed to be), so why were they made?

Is it like the Funimation dub? To reach specific people, even if the meaning and essence of the original material is lost?

In a nutshell, I don't think localisation companies (Treehouse or Funi) work in a vaccum, if they can lolcalise so much, it obviously means they got the authorisation of whoever has the rights to the original source material (maybe even the creator themselves!) to "edit" the content...

But that's what I came to regret the time where localisation, even if they had westernised names and more westernised refs, wasn't that "free", as in, Funi and Pat/Treehouse write their fanfic of Shinchan/FE16 ? Sure, why not, I mean, everyone can write a fanfic. Can I get a peak at the original source - edited as necessary because i'm not reading in the original language and I might not catch all references - please? No, because the only thing available is either something I cannot understand, or a fanfiction that takes liberties, as fanfic do, with canon.

Take Shinchan.

OG : Shin is a preschooler who has a dog named Shiro - meaning white - because his dog is white.

Vitello dub : Shin is a preschooler who has a dog named Lucky.

Funi dub : Shin wants an allowance but his parents are afraid he will buy meth and he has a dog named Lucky.

Remove the "old school" Vitello dub, and either Shin is a preschooler who named his dog "white" because the dog is white, or Shin is... a young child who receives money but lives in an area where he could buy drugs.

I can't understand the OG material, and I know the Funi one is a fanfiction, so what should I do? Treat this fanfic as canon, or, learn the language/try to understand the material by myself using dubious tools like translating apps? Or am I cursed to forever miss on Shinchan, even in the 2000s, aka an era where people can translate and localise movies from one language to another, but apparently for this one manga/anime, it's not possible unless it's lolcalised? Snowhite was turned into "Blanche-Neige" but the story is mostly the same than the one told in the US, but for Shinchan, I can only get the "Family Guy" version that isn't told in Japan?

I remember there was a controversy about localisation (when the thing that sparked that controversy wasn't even localisation related!) where some people, annoyed with the "liberties" they have with their dub version, became intense and rude and want to see localisers as "mere" translators...

And it escalated to have some localisers basically saying a game they localised is "their take" on a story - which is true, because each translation/localisation works with the bias of the translator/localiser, even if they try to be as neutral as possible, they can't completely remove themselves from their work -

Still, in FE16, Pat'n'Treehouse removed the "Supreme Leader uses propaganda" mention. Why? Is it their bias talking, they don't want her to "look bad"? But the script, the game wants the player to know she uses "information campaigns". Pat's "take" is she doesn't use it, but as a player, can't I be offered the choice to make my own take after seeing the script that mentions it, or not? Is Pat the one who directed the script, and wrote it as the "main thread" that links everything in the game (regardless of Fodlan's consistency lol), or was it Kusakihara/someone else?

If pat arbitrarly "removes" this part of the script, but I see it because I play in Japanese/Chinese/Korean/heck maybe other languages whose dub wasn't overseen by Pat, can it be said I played the same game as the players who played with the Pat dub/script?

Pat's CF!Felix calls Dimitri a monster, OG CF!Felix calls him a man -> thankfully we can count on fans to find stuff like this out but, again, why this bias against Dimitri in CF - that comes here from the lolcalisation, and not from the original text?

Why is it there? What if someone wants to play, and hopefully, understand, not Pat's "take" on their relationship in CF, but the writers/developer's? Is that someone fucked, or kindly asked to learn japanese (aka to do Pat'n'Treehouse's job?).

I don't really have The Perfect Solution (tm) anon to the general localisation discourse, at one point I was on the "just translate" fence, but when you understand a pun or a reference, and how it connects to something else, the game/book/anime/movie you're watching takes another level and it's much more enjoyable!

And yet, growing up with 4Kids and seeing shit like Treehouse butchering stuff, or hearing about Funimation Shinchan is... disheartening.

The only thing I can say is I'll always be rooting for dual audio, let it be for preferences but also to get at least what is easily understandable to everyone (I mean intonations, shocks, laughs, etc etc) and a glimpse at what the game/moving/anime is supposed to be enjoyed, especially with story heavy scripts like the FE series - while reading subs, because even the script is translated/localised, at least with the audio, it's easier to spot "lolcalisations".

And let's not forget the most important lol

The Fandom itself!

Let it be for FE, Tales or anything else, what I find fascinating (on Tumblr but even on redshit and SF once upon a time!) is how fans will be able to compare scripts, people familiar/fluent/who know a language will be able to spot the changes, and inform anyone who wants to be informed in the community that, say, Xander and Marx are pretty different characters, just like Jp!Effie and "I love to eat"!Effie.

Of course sometimes there will be misinformation (remember the Dimitri is rude because he uses the omae pronoun?), but I still find fascinating how, faced with ridiculous lolcalisations, fandom itself - aka part of the people who were supposed to be the targets of said lolcalisation - tries to "correct" and remove the unecessary edits. There are still people who dgaf about what was lolcalised from what wasn't, but even if it's just a consequence of the lolcalisation growing more and more unrestrained/unchained to the source material - it makes fandom engagment all the more precious and fascinating.

Like, you have real people basically combing the script and/or providing a translation - for free! - to help other fans, when some lolcalisers are paid to... edit and "lolcalise" the script some fans want to see.

And so, we're back to square 1 : who is the targeted audience of Funi's Shinchan or FE Treehouse?

The players/watchers?

FE Fates was, I suppose, ultimately lolcalised for a """western"" audience", aka an US one because no one gives a fuck about the rest of the world - and yet, assuming a majority of fans are from the US, said lolcalisation was mocked/ridiculed and ultimateld decried by part of that audience from who the game was lolcalised.

Some people (I've seen a redshit post about it today!) claim the lolcalised changed aren't made for the audience, but, much like a fanfiction, those changed weren't made to be more palatable to an audience, but were made for themselves - aka to push some agenda (see redshit's theory about funi pushing a "woke" agenda in their dubs and subs when it doesn't exist in the og scripts).

And to be fair, with FE16's US exclusive "Church BaD and controls the world!!!" + "Dimtri is not a man but a monster!", idk what Treehouse was trying to do, push their "organised religions BaD" agenda and "Supreme Leader is right so let's make her opponents BaD to highlight how right she is" bias? - but I can't help but wonder if it was indeed the case, and given how Pat sucked as a voice director, if the localised!version wasn't just some sort of trolley Treehouse used to convey their ideas, regardless of what the game wanted to say.

I mean, it's still fascinating, to this day, nearly 5 years after the release of the game, that we still find "Treehouse exclusive" lines, or how FEH who's still running, also has "Treehouse exclusive" lines for Fodlan characters that absolutely don't match the non global, aka, jp lines, let them be written or spoken - putting on the tinfoil hat, I wonder if Treehouse or whoever oversees the localisation isn't deadly afraid that if they don't pay extreme attention and/or rewrite anything related to Fodlan, global!players will realise that they were fed "Pat's Fire Emblem Treehouse", instead of FE16, thus takes extra care to comb and/or rewritte every line/dialogue that could make a global player think twice and note that this thing they're reading/hearing of in FEH (or even Engage!! See Dimitri's lolcalised line about people of different races living together!) is completely different from "Pat's Fire Emblem Treehouse".

Tl;Dr because I ranted and disgressed and idk where am I anymore with this post lol :

I think there's a difference between fandom's transformative works - done for fun, as a hobby! - and some lolcaliser's transformative works - they're paid for that and aren't supposed to bring a fanfiction to the audience, at least not as localisers ; so I wouldn't blame "fandom" for the fuckery that happened (Funi's shinchan is more than 17 years old!) and is sadly still happening.

On the contrary, given how fandom (at least some part of it) actively refuses to accept the lolcalised "fanfiction" - to the point of doing translation work! - I think fandom is the reason why this discourse is happening.

[triflesandparsnips]

Something something Ed seeks out or is confronted by his own reflections three times in ascending order of violent emotions (the hand mirror, the salver, the knife)--

And we see Stede being painted twice in his old life, not looking at the painter or the painting but at some distant other thing, and then finally seeking to see himself in the third appearance of his portraiture-- only to find he's been painted out.

I wonder if Stede will someday ask to be drawn, and how, and whether he will look at the artist while they work, or the other people in it (if any), and seek out the finished work and be happy to see himself reflected in it.

...and I wonder if Ed will avoid reflections now (remove the mirrors, avert the eyes, but sometimes he'll catch himself in still water and flinch away--) because he knows what he is, he made himself this way, he knows how others see him and he can see it in their eyes without needing any further proof (except what he sees in Stede's eyes doesn't seem to match, so better not look there, fuck, fuck--)

Stede will look so, so hard now, and Ed will look at anything but-- a switch now, from their season 1 selves, lasting, perhaps, until they can finally see themselves -- and each other -- fully.

(And maybe, after that, they'll be able to see themselves together.)

[klqdraws]

Narcissus and Goldmund after the timeskip 👁️👁️

[jihnari]

plot? you mean 100k words of set up so i can make a single joke?