#I think if s2 had a line or two like s1 that implied a bit about cressidas home life

[colinfeatherington]

I wanna like cressida and eloise together so badly but I’m afraid I can’t forgive cressida so easily like I’m a big believer in second chances and complex characters and her actress is SO good but from a friend perspective??? the betrayal!! penelope also has a shit home life but she’s never been that mean!!! and forget penelope a second, cressida is the one who almost ruined daphne!! eloise can’t forgive pen for what she wrote about her family well what about how cressida threatened and blackmailed daphne?

[aardvaark]

Throughout leverage we see multiple different people driving the team/groups. Parker with the "I was taught to run from the cops", Sophie with the "taxi driver in Istanbul (citation needed)", Eliot with "I am getting us there in 5 minutes or less"... So what is your headcanon for how they decide who drives? Does Nate have a specific set of criteria where he picks who drives? Do they argue about who drives?

well, a lot of places they go, they need minimum two vehicles: hardison's van for tech (i think its only got two actual seats, though im sure people have had to sit in the back & get thrown around lol) and at least one car for other people/general driving. hardison tends to drive lucille so thats one down. if eliot's around to drive, he's probably driving the second car. if not, then nate, then sophie, then parker*. when hardison isn't driving lucille, he's probably as likely to drive as nate or sophie. and when tara's there, i doubt she has driving privileges lol.

in s1, i doubt they're carpooling much. like, they'd drive from their homes to the hq to the job themselves, and only go in the same car to do some quick task. later, they treat nate's apartment as home base and are frequently there for very little reason lmao, so thats when they actually have to plan more about who drives. obviously it heavily depends on how many cars are required and who's doing what. but. it seems like it's often nate driving with sophie as passenger, eliot driving himself or with parker as passenger, and hardison driving himself or with parker as passenger.

*detailed explanation of their individual driving under the cut:

parker is a genuinely great getaway driver, so her skills are useful in that type of situation... but i think 99% of the time, when they're not requiring a quick getaway, she is BANNED from driving. sophie even said so somewhere in s3, i dont remember exactly. canonically she can drive perfectly normally too (eg her driving with tara in the s2 finale) to be fair. she just doesnt want to lol. the stuff she has in her own car (both useful items and "decoration") is somewhat disturbing and very confusing. a lot of it is sharp. or a chemical hazard.

sophie drives sometimes but her driving can be... questionable, occasionally (ie big bang job). the (alleged) fact she learnt to drive from a taxi driver in istanbul seems to imply she didn't learnt to drive later than most, when she was traveling a lot? her attitude of "if i'm doing my job right, the mark just turns off the alarm for me" makes me think she'd apply the same logic here and would've done more hitchhiking & public transport than driving when she was first starting out, but over time got herself a car and learnt to drive because its kinda a safety thing in her line of work (need a getaway). all this to say, she can drive and she might have a nice car but its not her priority, you know?

nate drives sophie, some mix of her thinking its chivalrous and him having some ingrained ideas about male gender roles, but also just personal preferences. and a little bit because hes seen some of her questionable driving choices. once they're together, this changes to a more even split. also nate is def a backseat driver (like, regardless of who's driving/their skill level) and has been kicked out of a car at least once.

hardison is also mostly fine to drive or not drive like sophie. he'll bicker with eliot about who drives but mostly that's just an extension of their ongoing bickering saga. every time one of his lucilles gets exploded or whatever, he has a period of mourning and takes a couple weeks before he'll let other people drive the next incarnation of lucille - and to be fair thats usually because one of them was responsible for killing lucille.

eliot doesn't let other people drive his car (unless its absolutely necessary for a con - see: the boost job). he only begrudgingly lets people IN his car because SOMEONE spilled slushie all over it one time and yes he will continue to bring that up a decade later, hardison. i think being around the team has made him become one of those people who has strict rules for being in his car lol - no food/drink, no leaving anything in the car that doesnt have to be there. obviously the team break these rules all the time.

and the definition of what is a "necessity" and can therefore stay in the car is a BIG ongoing debate. some items of interest on the "necessity" list: gift wrapping paper, one (1) shiny thing, a gaming console, chloroform, a neatly packed bag of spare clothes, at least one dress hanging up with a dust cover, 3-5 CDs (which must be individually approved before being added to the car and only one of which can be christmas-related), spare reading glasses, cables that eliot annoyingly can't veto because he doesn't understand that stuff enough to argue, aluminium foil, and a pack of hair ties.

some things that have been BANNED: food & drink, glitter (there was an incident), nail polish (there was more than one incident), most tech stuff ("that's why you have lucille!"), secret money stashes, anything considered priceless by art experts, "surprises", and live animals.

i would love a road trip episode where most/all of them are taking turns driving and are stuck together in a vehicle for ages. also i now have the urge to go through the series and actually chart who drives.

lol thank you very much for the ask and ik the length is crazy but i hope this is a good answer haha.

[nofomogirl]

Introductions in opening scenes from Good Omens S1 and S2

It's time to revisit the walls of Eden scene after all the new info from the new season (part 1? nor promising, but maybe it's just part 1)

Warning: This post contains very minor spoilers for season 2. Mostly, as the title suggests, from the opening scene. But if you haven't seen the show yet and don't know what the opening scene is, I suggest you come back after watching because it's OMG.

In Good Omens the book the very first line of dialogue is "I'm sorry, what was it you were saying?" strongly implying that we've started listening to Aziraphale and Crowley mid-conversation. They are introduced to us, the readers, in the narrative bits, but the names are never used in actual dialogue.

Maybe they had introduced themselves earlier, maybe they didn't. Maybe they didn't need an introduction, maybe they did. We don't know and it doesn't matter. The authors wanted us to focus on the conversation at hand, not on their relationship. An angel and a demon on the walls of Eden are just an excuse to discuss certain ideas.

The show changes the scene a little and makes some things more explicit. We now know for sure that what we saw was the entire conversation because we were shown how it started. We now know for sure that (1) Aziraphale never gave his name, (2) Crowley never asked for it, (3) Crowley gave his name (4) but only after Aziraphale gently pressed him to.

After season 1 I was mostly looking at it from a practical perspective, probably because I like comparing how different kinds of media can convey information, and I mostly focused on how the book was translated into the show.

From that perspective, it was okay to cut the information that the angel's name was Aziraphale from that first scene, because we were going to learn it soon enough anyway, and there was no point in disrupting the flow of the conversation to include it. However, we needed to know that the serpent's name was Crawly because it was going to change and changes in Crowley's name are important. So it was justified to take this information from the narration and squeeze it into the dialogue. But in the most unintrusive way possible.

Of course, that doesn't mean I have never considered the in-universe significance of their introduction/lack of introduction in Eden. However, my headcanon was that the S01E01 opening was their very first meeting, and season 2 proved me wrong, so I will skip my old theories here.

Instead, let's look at S02E01 and S01E01 side by side.

S01E01 Aziraphale never gave his name / S02E01 Crowley never gave his name

We now know that Aziraphale hasn't introduced himself in Eden because they had met before.

But why has Crowley done the same among the stars? It couldn't be that they had already met even earlier, because if that was the case why would Aziraphale introduce himself then?

I believe one of the main reasons is that we're not supposed to know Crowley's angelic name. At least not yet, maybe not ever (I hope we will never learn it, since it is his dead name).

But that again is not an in-universe explanation.

Have you noticed how throughout season 2 two characters expected Crowley to know them, but he didn't? Sure, there's always memory manipulation theory, but honestly, I'm beginning to believe that he simply doesn't pay attention to people around him. And the way he acted towards Aziraphale seems to confirm it. He called out to a passing angel simply because he needed a hand. He wasn't looking for company and would be perfectly happy if Aziraphale left immediately after, leaving Crowley to enjoy his creation alone. It takes considerable effort on Aziraphale's side to engage Crowley in the conversation.

S01E01 Crowley never asked for Aziraphale's name / S02E01 Aziraphale never asked Crowley for his name

Again, because they had already met before Eden.

Right?

It is a valid explanation, obviously, but I'm not entirely sure that's the case. I think it's quite possible, that Crowley didn't remember Aziraphale just like he didn't remember Saraqael or Furfur. I know we wish to think Aziraphale was special and must have left an impression but I see no evidence of that in pre-Fall Crowley's behaviour. Quite the opposite.

I think the reason Crowley didn't ask Aziraphale for his name might have been because, as usual, he didn't care.

Unless, of course, they met before the Fall more than just this once and got to know each other better.

Ok, so why Aziraphale didn't ask Crowley for his name among the stars? I think we can rule out not being interested. Perhaps it was a sign of social awkwardness and insecurity; after he introduced himself and Crowley failed to reciprocate, he got discouraged? Not impossible, but it's not speaking to me.

My (veRy oRigINal) theory is that Aziraphale didn't ask because he already knew. It was the first time they were speaking face to face, but he was aware of Crowley before. Maybe because Crowley was a high-ranking angel and everybody knew who he was. Or maybe he personally caught Aziraphale's interest for some reason, hmm?

S01E01 Crowley gave his name / S02E01 Aziraphale gave his name

Now this is where things get really interesting.

Remember the "Crowley fell first" theory? It was neat, wasn't it? Unfortunately, it's going out the window now, because it couldn't have been any more obvious that Aziraphale had a massive crush on pre-Fall Crowley and in the creation scene he was bending over backward to flirt with him and extend their interaction. What's more, Crowley wasn't particularly interested!

Aziraphale introduces himself completely unprompted and seems so incredibly happy that he can. Crowley's reaction is a "nice meeting you", that sounds an awful lot like "whatever, bye".

After that, I will never be able to see Crowley's reaction to "I gave it away" and not think about how in season 2 he says "it is always too late"...

Ok, now let's have a look at the moment Crowley introduces himself in Eden.

He doesn't do it on his own. He only responds when Aziraphale shows interest.

Aziraphale doesn't explicitly ask Crowley for his name. He just talks to him, reaches a point when it would be natural to address him by his name, and suspends his voice. Crowley gets the hint and fills his name in. Aziraphale repeats it, Crowley gives him a little nod, and the conversation continues smoothly.

Before season 2, I just thought that it was a courteous gesture proving that Aziraphale sees Crowley as a person.

Season 2 makes it a little more complicated.

When Aziraphale stops mid-sentence at the point where Crowley's name should be, was it fully conscious? Was he going to use Crowley's old name and realize last moment, that he shouldn't? If so, what was his reason? Was it out of respect for Crowley, who might not identify with that name anymore, or was it because he believed a demon had no right to an angelic name? Or maybe it would be simply too painful for Aziraphale himself?

I'm going to stop here, but honestly. After you're done crying after the S2 finale, I strongly suggest watching the S2 opening scene, and then the S1 Eden scene. A new perspective really adds to it!

Then watch S2 opening again followed by the rest of S2 because we want to create numbers and make S3 happen.

[freakova]

Rabbit rambling back //

Op I apologies for this enthusiasm but reading this post has got my brain jumping up and down like a monkey with pepsi injected into its bloodstream going “OO OO OO AH AH AH!” because you discuss a theory I’ve had on the back burner for a while--

(and the preview is so funny it’s AWFUL without context but it’s only because I talked about sword purposes lmfao please ignore) (and obviously not saying you stole it it’s just like “HEY! I’m not crazy for possibly overthinking this!”)

Anyway you mention a what-if theory and wanna pick at it given what you discuss. Completely agree that there’s a connection between the Usagi’s and the Ki-stone and the possibility he's now spiritually connected.

What if the Ki-Stone decided to "save" Miyamoto Usagi somewhere? I probably forgot to post on it, but that first scene with Usagi and Usagi together in the white space of the Ki-Stone made me think. the older Usagi "wakes up" in a similar way, as if his spirit has been asleep for a 1000 years. We know he wasn't in the Ki-Stone like the Yokai, bc we see at the end of s1 that he survived that interaction + in s2 that he sent his sword away,.. but what if he had to send it for safe-keeping with his family not just because he was sure he would die and be captured, because he knew the sword would be needed later? "Willow Branch is a special sword" as he puts it in the ep 10 flashback. (and more abt this theory another time then)

First thing I wanna point out. It gets me thinking about the whole backstory of Usagi’s swords in SR. Or at least one sword. Because the backstory we get in season 2 implies that Miyamoto only gave away Willow Branch.

Yuichi: According to family lore, it happened a thousand years ago. Miyamoto Usagi gave Willow Branch to a messenger to take to his family for safekeeping. The messenger stumbled into a huge battle in a secluded valley. He tried to defend Willow Branch, and almost lost his life. He didn't regain consciousness for weeks. By then, the sword was lost, and so was his memory of where the battle happened. They say he searched for that valley for the rest of his life, but was never able to find it. -S02E07

So why only Willow Branch? You could argue it’s because Willow Branch was the sword used to cut the Ki-Stone so Usagi was more willing to give it up due to it’s importance but again, why would he do that? To me it just seems a bit odd that Miyamoto Usagi, a character known to wield two swords would just…give up his main sword willingly…unless he was leaving home to do something knowing he wouldn't (possibly) come back. A battle? Sacrifice maybe? Unfortunately I don’t think there’s much evidence to determine what happened between Miyamoto giving up Willow Branch and his potential death…but it does raise questions that I feel SHOULD be considered if the show continues.

As you state—Samurai swords do commonly hold importance in stories. One common saying is “A sword is considered part of the warrior's soul.” And as also mentioned in your post—The Yojimbo comic “Senso” can be of significance to this.

(Quote) M: Here. Takes these…(passing both swords to Jotaro)…They are my soul! Pass them down to your first born…Then to his first born…and down the line. That way I will never die!

This shows that the idea of weapons having connections with their owners (soul) is very important within the UY universe and the show is no exception. Both Yuichi and Miyamoto’s reflections appear in Willow Branch when found (S02E07), Yuichi manages to meet Miyamoto through meditation and bear in mind too—he never confirms how they are meeting.

Yuichi: Are you a spirit, or am I communicating with you in the past? Miyamoto: The difference is only a matter of perspective. -(S02E08)

And not to mention—after the battle (s02e10), Miyamoto appears within the Ki-Stone to thank Yuichi. And again…as you point (Damn doing my job for me!), in the very first episode, Yuichi almost seems to 'awaken him' after touching the Ki-Stone.

Another really popular theme often seen in Japanese (And inspired) media is the subject of families and bloodlines. Blood is thicker than water n’ all that. So Yuichi, a descendant, touching this giant important crystal, surviving AND seeing his ancestor “wake up” in a vision before seeing his memories of killing the shogun?

IMO, it’s clear that there IS important connections between the Ki-Stone, the shard now restored, Miyamoto and Yuichi. Maybe it’s a history-repeating-itself situation where Yuichi is continuing/repeating a legacy but who knows. I do think that Miyamoto (spirit? conscience?) will hold more importance in a possible season 3 but hey—not letting go on if that’s real or not.

…one more thing though cause it’s kinda “hmm! Interesting!”

(I also find it interesting that the piece of Ki-Stone attached to Edgewing is named after the national butterfly of Japan, the Sasakia Charonda, or, ō-murasaki " (オオムラサキ - "great purple") - but all that for another time)

Butterflies have many meanings and symbolism. This includes the belief that they are messengers from the afterlife, metamorphosis and transformation. (X)- Link is to an article of their meanings but feel free to look at others, this one just explains it the best imo. It’s interesting given that a butterfly symbol is used as a barrier to protect the city.

Also….Sasakia Charonda...ohohohoho! I wonder what the colour scheme is of these butterflies—

...Oh!

Neo Edo, Ki-Stone and Kaikishi connections

another little wayward thought i've kept pushing back in my head to post about it another time: the way the connection between both our younger Usagi and the Ki-stone is pictured and then the original, older Usagi, how these things connect in the story and wordl. (Fanramble)

when Usagi first touches the Ki-Stone, he describes it as "like if you had a friend, who was lighting " and seems to be visibly fine after the Ki-stone pushes him away from the connection (or it seems more like; he's so taken aback to see Miyamoto Usagi in the same space as him, he just "wakes himself up from it" but doesn't look worser than usual).

But you'll notice that 1) his pursuers (newfound friends) + Spot are all ALSO lying on the ground, smoking from being zapped by the Ki-stone, and 2) Tetsujin who was touching Usagi on his shoulder to stop him is "not a ghost" - "transmuted into another plane of existence" - so basically we can say that as a kindness, the Ki-stone "transmuted" him instead of just killing him. So we can assume that usually touching the Ki-stone either kills or zaps the person.

But Usagi is basically fine, save for maybe feeling a bit hurt by the push-back onto the temple floor. Most of the next times he connects to the Ki-Stone again, it's by his yo-yo. Did the Ki-Stone, recognizing Usagi as a familiar rabbit, or even recognizing him as Miyamoto Usagi's descendany, know he would need this yoyo? Did she know Usagi could solve the 1000-year old problem delayed by Usagi's ancestor by killing the shogun and trapping all spirit-farers?

We also see in ep 6 "Nobody likes A Ninja", the ninja trying to list the Ki-Stone get zapped back as well. Side-note: we don't know if they just get a bit "burnt" like the main cast in ep 1, or if they're actually dead here after.

Whatever the case, the Ki-stone can't be touched directly without harm to the physical person. The way the fake scroll bait is used by the Neko Ninja also makes me think that Tetsujin, knowing that Fuwa would want to steal it, also made the scroll in a way he could punish the Neko Ninja a little, but without killing them (i know it's maybe not that important since they're technically enemies, but Tetsujin's whole outfit makes me thing that he'd approach it peacefull, or more with mischief that lethal harm in mind.)

In the same ep, Tetsujin also repeats the "Do not Touch the Ki-Stone" rule, also explaining why (magnetic pull of the earth - sidenote: that's why u can also see this magnets idea in how people in Neo Edo carry their weapons - magnets are everywhere in Neo Edo and that's how the cars and some of the appliances work for example)

As the series goes on, we see Usagi get gradually worser reactions after each time he has touched the Ki-stone. In ep 5, trapping Hakai, we see him step back and yell in pain, holding his eyes closed and covering them, staged in a way that makes it seem both the info and physical experience were tougher to experience. Trapping Sakuran in ep 6, he stands in shock and simply rolls down from not being able to stand on his own anymiore, lying down for a while when Tetsujin and Spot approach him. He says "That hurts a little more every time." At the end of the season, once he's seen the final scene with his ancestor, he holds his head again, but in slightly less pain. This could be explained how the whole city saw the scene and is "sharing the brainload", as we see everyone from Gen to the city police rubbing their heads in shock. Ironically, the only person to recover quickly from this is Lord Kogane (for humor, but this scene was genuinely funny with how it's a comment about history changing in a 1000 years)..

Anyway, this all to say that it's an interesting internal consistency within the show world x3 Usagi is the only one who survives touching the Ki-Stone, presumably bc of his connection to Miyamoto Usagi, who was able to also survive connecting to the stone and even cut it thanks to Willow Branch, his own personal weapon. I had a theory going in my head a while back that perhaps, despite him not having a legacy left after the murder of the fake shogun, what if the Ki-Stone decided to "save" Miyamoto Usagi somewhere? I probably forgot to post on it, but that first scene with Usagi and Usagi together in the white space of the Ki-Stone made me think. the older Usagi "wakes up" in a similar way, as if his spirit has been asleep for a 1000 years. We know he wasn't in the Ki-Stone like the Yokai, bc we see at the end of s1 that he survived that interaction + in s2 that he sent his sword away,.. but what if he had to send it for safe-keeping with his family not just because he was sure he would die and be captured, because he knew the sword would be needed later? "Willow Branch is a special sword" as he puts it in the ep 10 flashback. (and more abt this theory another time then)

At the end of the episode, we see that Yuichi connects to the Ki-Stone again, but this time, not to remember and not with his yoyo but to return Omurasaki to the Ki-Stone as it was the piece that his ancestor cut, was passed down instead of a sword, and now sit's on his auntie's Edgewing, at the pommel.

Maybe it was this connection to the Ki-Stone that also saved Usagi the first time? Whether it was the connection itself (having the sword with him, with the stone still spiritual/magical) or the Ki-Stone knowing that the piece was back in the city, and thus choosing Usagi based on it in the first ep. But the stone saw that he needed his own spirit weapong, and so it opened up the vault for Usagi to pick the most suited weapon for him. Again, I wonder how much the Ki-Stone in it's magic/spirit sentience actually foresaw or predicted some of this?

(I also find it interesting that the piece of Ki-Stone attached to Edgewing is named after the national butterfly of Japan, the Sasakia Charonda, or, ō-murasaki " (オオムラサキ - "great purple") - but all that for another time)

Giving the piece back the Ki-Stone throws Usagi back so far that he's actually left unconscious for a longer time, enough for the Ki-Stone to pulse with some sort of energy to close the big energy portal in the sky, go wireless and for his friends to basically finish fighting the rest of the warbotto.

Side-note: Like. he actually looked kinda dead in this scene and while being a longtime cartoon fan I knew it probably wouldn't last long, I was kinda convinced enough just to be like "no way. they're not gonna kill off a main character!" at it haha x3

Now, for the other times that Usagi touches it, he uses the yoyo, which basically seems to act as a conduit between his spirit and the Ki-Stone (which is basically a spirit-energy stone, going by the name), even tho he feels worse each time, he can still endure the memories and connection without bigger harm. Does this mean the other's in his orphan crew also get this ability with their Kaikishi weapons in s2? or is it special to just Usagi's yo-yo? It's also intersting that while both the Ki-Stone and the entire city feature magnet-related features as does the yo-yo (being able to connect to metal, but also spirits), it seems the other weapons do not have this ability. Except maybe Chizu's arrows, which she can change at will. Kitsune's new batlle fans can also disappear at will, matching her personality and skills, but the disappearing "woosh" energy also resembles the Ki-Stone itself, being purple. Gen's new war clubs can change size, but also connect into one big version which he is able to lift with ease, so that could also be a connection to the magnetic theme related to the Ki-Stone. Kinda wish we'd gotten more of the others or to see more of these weapons secondary skills, but alas, 10 eps is what we got.

But would this ability to connect to the Ki-Stone via weapons, mean that the others would also have more backstory and lore to explore if the show went on longer or even just for another season? More of those 2D cutscenes where characters remember or imagine something? What kind of story ideas did the writers and crew have simmering underneath all the stories they had to cut for time?

Also of note: While the rest seem to have standard features + super-natural ones which reflect their users + some hidden ability we don't know about, it might be that the yoyo also has one more secret ability?

Usagi's yoyo can act as a normal yoyo. When lit/glowing, it acts as a magnet and Yuichi can use it creatively in a lot of ways. It's nigh-indestructible, which seems like a feature that would be common to all Kaikishi weapons. It can capture anything magnetic and in episode 3, Possessions, we see it can also capture a yokai in place. Dare Mo, the yokai who takes auntie's appearance to fight Usagi, is surprised to see him sporting a Kaikishi weapon and begs him not to "use [his] weapon's power!"

So that has always made me wonder if there's more to it than what we see later? Because we see with ep 5, capturing Hakai, that if Usagi asks respectfully, the yoyo will "calm" the yokai into not struggling or resisting. It's about Usagi learning to respect and trust his weapon and learn to not jump into a fight all sword-crazy. But also, if it's part of it's spirit we could poetically state that it's about Usagi learning to trust and listen to his own soul as well.

In any case, this "calming" effect of the yoyo seems the most obvious third extra power, but I get the feel like there might more. (again, sorta wish we'd gotten to see more of the rest of the Kaikishi weapon's special powers x3) And then, if the other spirit weapons are not there for capturing yokai + we've already seen their secondary powers, what else could be there?

What's subtly interesting about Usagi's choice in the yo-yo, is that the Ki-Stone seems to have wanted to pick Chizu at first (she's the temple student and in reality an experienced fighter, but also, not being picked is a visual gag here), but then comically turns to Usagi, giving him the spotlight... but also making him react in a way that to me at least speaks that "that stone took his spirit-orb and sent it to the weapon door". We see him pick the yo-yo impulsively, but we also see. So it makes it feel like the Ki-Stone picked him deliberately, as if knowing he'd pick the yo-yo, instead of something sharp that could cut her, since we know that a sword is usually a samurai's spirit (and probably why in this show, Willow Branch was able to cut it at all).

In s2, after saving the city from the Makkine attack with his spirit-samurai form, granted to him by meditating while connected to the Ki-Stone by his yo-yo again, Usagi says that it's probably something he won't be doing again. It almost seems as if this drained all of Usagi's own spirit energy, and then some. The Ki-Stone gave him a boost upwards and he got some heavenly spirit-power to transform into a spirit-suit basically - with Usagi himself in the "heart" of the mech.

Interesting design. (I've made notes about this before). It's really cool! Also cool that it mirrors the end of UY: Senso in this way too. The show's showrunners and other creative staff were such big fans, they put something like this into the story, but it still makes sense internally.

also just because: of COURSE it ends with a bit mech vs kaiju fight!!!

he is much more like his ancestor than he thinks he is haha

sdfsdfs i love thinking abt the connections in this show x3

[seance]

What are your thoughts about season 3 of TUA?

Let’s start with saying I’m now comfortable with admitting I liked it more than s2. Until episode 4 I was seriously worrying about the pace of the plot, it felt very all over the place but once the various storylines started to unravel, I was definitely curious about the direction they were pulling us towards. So there’s that, even though nothing can ever top S1 in my heart and that’s cause s3 suffer from the very same thing that made s2 so difficult to digest for me the first time around: tone inconsistency.

I want to make a huge disclaimer before I continue and that is: this is obviously an opinion I formed thinking about the show with a critical approach like I do with everything I enjoy, I like to think and talk about it “seriously” and then putting those thoughts into perspective if the context of said piece of media requires it. So don’t think I don’t know why the writers have chosen to give the show a lighter feel, a more nonsensical vibe etc. I’m not trying to over dramatize anything here, this is just something I really care about and I find it engaging and entertaining to talk about it with other people more in depth. ♡ At the end of the day, it is just a show about wacky interdimensional stuff.

THE CONS

With that out of the way I can surely tell you the one thing I disliked completely was Luther’s treatment and writing which I have already addressed in this ask but to reiterate I personally find the way they jumped from one characterization to the other incredibly jarring. This is not to say he can’t be the fun, affectionate one, I love that about him, love how it can be read as a deconstruction of the persona Reginald forced him to be to keep him complacent (stern, hyper responsible, detached) BUT it’s all taken to an extreme with him. Like they didn’t know what to do with his character after S1 so they decided to dumb him down, give him all the comedy gimmick, never again explain his train of thoughts and just leave it at that.

To add salt to the injury they immediately threw him in one of my most hated trope: romance at first sight. This is totally a me problem, I want everyone to know I acknowledge this but it’s a huge mood killer for me. I can uphold my suspension of disbelief for eldritch tentacles and time travelling teenagers but I draw the line at ‘I was moping and whining about my sister having married another man two hours ago but now everything I do or say will be for the sake of this random alternative dimension woman I just met in my old living room’. I’m sorry but no, it immediately antagonizes the characters for me, you do this and I can assure I’ll have to work twice as hard to even try to care about them in the slightest and it honestly sucks because I don’t think him and Sloane aren’t cute or don’t work in general. I just wish we could have seen at least SOME build up to it? One shred of her personality that didn’t involve her very sudden immortal love for Luther? It shined through in glimpses here and there but it still felt forced. That fact that he suddenly discards his family and even says her name as he dies, I mean c’mon. You have to SHOW me changes in your characters, you can’t just TELL me it’s there, this is the kind of writing that gets on my nerve. Especially because it wouldn’t have taken a genius to write it a little bit more consistently and still making it work. They had to finally separate Luther and Allison, which is more than fine (even tho I wish it wouldn’t translate in ‘they never interact normally again’), Luther needed to gain a new purpose, a sense of independence after being let down by his dad for one last time in s2 and having come to terms with his disillusionment and isolation. I’m really not a fan of implying he finds all this in a romance instead of building the characters separately and then maybe having the romantic relationship has a bonus, it would have felt 10x more natural and there wasn’t any reason to sacrifice their sense of self. The show made a point (S1) in characterizing the Hargreeves as people who have super powers but incredibly real, overwhelming, gritty and relatable problems. This entire storyline felt so disconnected from that kind of vision, I simply couldn’t get behind it.

A similar thing, in a less messy form, happened to Diego. Don’t get me wrong, I know they take care to insert bits and pieces of siblings interactions here and there but I’m starting to notice how they really struggle in actually managing their dynamics in a consistent, diversified way. Diego was basically isolated from his family all season. Not narratively speaking, it’s just that they always had him spend all his time with Lila and Stanley. Y’all, Lila gets to spend time on her own with Five and Diego don’t. He is just suddenly in dad mode and that’s it. He doesn’t have one single 1vs1 meaningful interaction with anyone else (brawl scene with Allison notwithstanding, that one I liked very much). Where with meaningful I mean somehow serious and/or relevant to the plot. This is the same character that gave us an incredible insight about him AND the others through his dialogues with Klaus (I have the sneaky suspicion they completely separated them in s2 cause of all the shipping but I’m still mourning them), Luther, Five and even Viktor. If you really think about it, we understand what life in the Academy was like at first through Diego’s eyes. I was honestly sad to see him kinda estranged now, they exacerbated his ‘slice now, ask questions later’ side and called it a day. Again, I know I’m generalizing on some things, he had some cute exchanges but in the grand scheme of things they just fell short to my eyes. Yeah, he had tears in his eyes when Klaus died but still they decided to write the scene like a gag and make it about him and Stan. As usual the new characters can only be developed at the expenses of the ones we already love and that’s why I find it so hard to grow attached. Anyway, my feelings about this are also totally biased and I know this, I never could grow fond of his relationship with Lila (I have an incredible resistance against putting female characters in all these little boxes right away: girlfriend, wife, mother, you have to fall in love immediately or we don’t know what to do with you, oh here you go then be plagued with thoughts and anguishes about your value as a woman once you get pregnant etc.) plus the ‘style’ of their dynamic is really not my cup of tea (constant teasing, manipulations and such) and that’s just about different taste in media tropes so yeah. I’m indifferent about them now, I like both as single characters and I guess I’m just feeling stressed about their story possibly being only about parenthood from now on. Again, totally makes sense for Diego, with all his internalized daddy issues, his sense of insecurity and his overcompensation, I’m glad they feel secure in their relationship and everything but god I wish the writing was different and didn’t hyperfocus on a single dynamic leaving out everything else. Also why did we see him grow into his powers, deviating bullets and such in S2 and this time around he barely touches his knives?

I’m gonna try and speed up from here about the other things that left me kinda eh: there are several plot holes I think? That break up the immersion for me. Like, this is a genuine question if anyone else want to pitch in but isn’t Reginald’s plan basically a retcon to S1? If he always knew about Obsidian and the sigil (and it’s implied that he did since he very conveniently adopted seven children for seven stars/bells in every timeline) and he specifically sent Luther to the moon to guard Abigail (personally preferred the version where it was ACTUALLY meaningless, ‘cause it was such a pivotal point for Luther’s development ugh), why the hell did he kill himself in S1? So the siblings could get together and save the world, that’s what we are told. But if they really had succeeded then what? He was dead, how did he think to put everything in motion then? He says something to Klaus about him expecting his son to summon his spirit and then we’re told in the same breath he purposefully raised them to fear their powers so how did he expect that to work? It could have been his plan all along, you say, the timelines, the dimensions… how? How could have he known that Five would be back? That Klaus would throw the journal into the trash? That Leonard existed and would have found it, that his plan to manipulate Viktor would work, that reconciliation among the siblings would be shaky at best, that they would end up in the 60s, in the same city where he lived years before they were born etc. they are just too many variables. Maybe he was not really dead? No! Klaus finds him in the afterlife so???? I have many questions about that, I hope they’re gonna go over it in s4 at this point.

I’m incredibly sorry to say, I still don’t care about the Sparrows. (picture me saying this like the “You know what I'm about to say it I don't care that you broke your elbow” kid) It was inevitable, there were just TOO many characters and the writers have proven times and times again that they struggle with balancing too many characterizations at once, something had to give. As a concept, they were incredibly interesting but the first three episodes, where it seemed like the main point of focus would have been their conflict felt so weird simply because it was based on something too silly like trespassing (as they put it, they didn’t manage to convey the real reasons very well). Zero depth there about their real motivations, the relationships they shared etc. We vaguely understand they weren’t really close from what Sloane tells Ben but then again, they talk about avenging their siblings in a scene and don’t care in the next, I don’t know everything about them felt strange, like they really were just some placeholder npcs that were never intended to take up much space. So I honestly felt nothing when Jayme and Alphonso died, don’t honestly understand why they wouldn’t tell us ANYTHING about Christopher, was he supposed to be some kind of comedy relief? If so I’m completely off that target audience. Fei and Ben were the only ones that kept me going in those few initial episodes, their dynamic was interesting and kept the tone of the series a little more serious which was what I personally needed. I’m disappointed they took Marcus out in less than an episode, those crumbs we got about his personality and the possible interactions with Viktor and the others were interesting. Also it’s totally not my place to say, but it didn’t really feel right to yeeet another black character this way.

With Sloane, as I was saying it was really just about wasted potential. I look forward to know her better (I know they aren’t gonna get rid of her so easily) but damn if I wish it wasn’t framed by the romance arc. Her powers are super cool? She’s obviously incredibly smart as we gathered from that 3 lines exchange she has with Five as they try to trap the Blitz. She’s very sweet, I liked how she was so open to know every Umbrella better if given the chance and Genesis’ performance was really good! So fingers crossed.

Ben’s everything felt like a huge scam ngl. I had the distinct impression they had cut a lot of content about him, like the Jennifer storyline. Everything about his character was, once again, told to us instead of shown. Kinda like a grocery list, you know? So yeah, he’s jealous, he’s resentful, he was once number one than he wasn’t anymore, anything else? He had his moments for sure and I understand the direction they wanted to take with him, I just think it would have benefitted from more careful writing. As a rule of thumb, I always prefer to see less stuff happening if that means it’s going to be written better instead of a thousand shallow plotlines.

Still not over the fact that they didn’t truly take their time to explore what it meant for everyone and especially Klaus to see him again. Luther, Diego, Allison and Viktor mourned him when they were sixteen. Five didn’t see him for forty-five years just to be told he died without being offered a real explanation. Klaus mourned him twice without having said goodbye and he was the sibling who knew him better than everyone else. Did you notice how everyone described Ben this season? He was the best of us, so sweet, so soft, so timid, so good. That’s what they remember from their childhood. Klaus tells Sparrow!Ben his brother was a dark cloud, he was annoying, he was relentless, he was a scold but he was THEIRS and they all loved him, Klaus loved him for it. Their bond was tried times and times again by the life they both had to lead from childhood to adulthood and it was strained in the end but it was also real and very deep. Episode 8 does a good job at making us see what really is going on inside their heads and how Sparrow!Ben is actually feeling the weight of the comparison. It was worth expanding imo, with Klaus especially being allowed to grieve.

The last real con I want to address is of course the elephant in the room which I kept for last cause in my opinion it’s exactly the monster child of this whole inconsistent writing: Allison and Luther’s scene. I won’t insult anyone’s intelligence by reiterating the fact that the act itself was horrible and not something anyone should ever condone but I think the real problem here is what they decided to do after. That scene was meant to show us viewers how desperate and how low Allison had fallen into her grief. It feels incredibly wrong to say but narratively speaking it could have made sense, it was indeed a very shocking, very intense scene. Emmy and Tom both did great in conveying how terribly wrong everything felt in that moment, how the actions of the characters were being portrait in a negative light which is obviously the intent here. I do not agree with never showing bad things on any media because these are things that happen every day and they tell a story. Allison’s struggle has always been about her relationship with her powers and validation, this is not all there is about her but it’s part of her identity as a character. While I am glad they framed the situation as wrong and that she stops shortly after in realization, what I do not agree with is how after that the writers basically never address it again. What’s the point of showing such a scene if you aren’t ready to write the aftermath with the same dedication and careful attention? If they knew it had to be that way then it would have been better not to put it in the show at all. Cause it wasn’t vital to Allison’s breakdown but could have had an important connotation for both her and Luther (how often do we see men portraited as the victims?). All they left us with instead is a half-assed message of ‘it wasn’t a big deal, you see?’ and that’s wrong cause it's a huge disservice especially to Allison’s character which is actually one of my favorite and represents something even more important for many of the viewers.

THE PROS

Whew, that was heavy. I’m sure I didn’t even touch all the points I wanted to address but honestly, we all need a little more positivity right now so onto what I liked instead! I’m at 2777 words, I’m gonna try to summarize for real this time oh my god.

Compared to S2 the siblings spent more time together actually talking and communicating. Not enough to avoid the usual trope of ‘sibling x disappears and not one notices’ and/or ‘I’m not actually gonna pay attention to anything you said’ that’s getting on my nerves lately ngl. But at least we had some more quality time among them and a good understanding of how closer they all got in the last few weeks.

Viktor’s coming out was handled in a very sweet, tender way. From what I read trans viewers appreciated it too and I think that’s really important. Absolutely loved the easy affection and immediate understanding from everyone else, it didn’t feel forced or anything, just personal enough to make it very soft and believable. On that note, it was a joy to see how Elliot’s and by proxy Viktor’s confidence skyrocketed after he was finally able to act in a body that felt more like his. His smiles were so contagious and I loved to see him so assertive and involved this season. His relationship with Allison is one of the most complex of the entire show and it made sense they focused on that to tell part of S3’s story but I look forward to see him interact with his brothers more in the future.

With the exception of what we have already addressed, Allison’s path was the most engaging to watch. Emmy was outstanding this season, I’m so glad she got her moment to shine because she’s a terrific actress and what happened to her character this season was something worth telling. Allison’s rage was a long time coming so it didn’t surprise me they chose that route, in this case even tho we don’t really know much about Claire and Ray (who’s still my fave extra character from s2, the only one I grew attached to) her motivations don’t feel forced or out of place because what’s matter is what we saw through her eyes. We just need to know how important they are, especially Claire, for her and that’s something that’s been consistent since S1. I related to her anger this season, grief is not all about sadness and withdrawal, it’s even more often about fury. And considering how she’s right about the others trying to minimize her anguish because it’s been 30 years and they’re still learning how to really exit survival mode where all it matters it’s your own well-being, her downward spiral makes total sense. Anger is a protective emotion but it swallows everything else more often than not, in her case it took away her inhibitions regarding her powers and the moral courtesies she usually extended to others and now felt weren’t really reciprocated. It was sad and intense to see her grow apart from everyone else but I’m curious to see what the reckoning is going to be.

Klaus and Five were part of why I liked this season way more than S2. I’m biased since they’re both my faves but I was just so glad to see them interact more in a less snippy way. This season addressed Five’s conundrum from a different perspective: he has lived all his life with the weight of something massive like the end of the world on his shoulders and he never had time to fill his head or his heart with anything else except this impeding sense of doom and responsibility. But he is tired and just like Luther, he is disillusioned because the universe seems intent in proving him wrong, in ending just the same no matter what he sacrifices to prevent it. It was very telling to see how this knowledge (that there wasn’t anything else he could do) liberated him instead of putting him down. He was finally able to soften his cutting edges, get to know those siblings he fought so hard to save better, let himself be known, indulge in the little things. To Five, trust is everything and he never trusted anyone, we are repeatedly shown this. Now he finally let himself lean on the people who know him and care for him and didn’t find them lacking. Confiding in Klaus, talking honestly with Viktor, being open to work with Lila, genuinely caring about what Luther wanted to do before dying, sharing an easy camaraderie with Diego, noticing what was wrong with Allison. He was so attuned to the human aspect of it all and that’s what, in the end made him choose to jump on the star against every instinct he had had up until that moment. Reginald keeps insisting on their similarities and it’s true, they’re similar in intellect, motives, methods but there are lines Five will never cross time and time again cause he’s willing to learn and part of him won’t lose that hope that kept him alive all those years in the apocalypse. His biggest vulnerability transforms into his biggest strength every single time and that’s something Reggie can’t take from him. Ps: loved his scenes with Lila, they’re really fun together and it’s interesting to see how their past in the Commission gives them this very peculiar vibe that only they share, their own rhythm. That said I would have loved to see him interact more with Ben and maybe it would have made more sense that at least part of Klaus’ storyline with Reginald would have been Five’s instead.

Last but not least, Klaus. You all know I could talk forever about him but that also means I probably already said everything I wanted to say in my various gifsets. I was afraid they would use him to completely redeem Reginald to our eyes and that didn’t really happen so I’m glad. I have to say, I kinda gaslight myself into finding a plausible reason why Reginald chose him to infiltrate the family since the show didn’t really bother with telling us. First of all, there’s the empathic aspect to consider. Klaus is one of the most, if not the most empathic sibling among the seven of them. It all gets mixed up with is erratic behavior but we are shown time and time again how much he cares. And that’s usually also his downfall because people tend to either abuse or distrust this part of his personality. What he lived through as a child and the instability that kept characterizing his years on the streets and his addiction made him maybe more fragile to emotional manipulation because he never really had anything to himself that wasn’t taken away violently afterwards. The number of interpersonal relationships he manages to maintain in the present are all dependent on his input for now because people don’t really seek him out. So for him, the possibility of rewriting part of his past with his dad, the most traumatizing figure in his life, was incredibly tempting and I get that. I don’t actually think he would have just stood there and got himself killed in that horrible way time and time again but I guess it was for plot and comedy (sigh) reasons. I appreciated seeing him grow into his powers, him remembering what really happened in that mausoleum but I have to say it was maybe more Robert and Colm’s performances that brought that intensity to life because like with everything else about Klaus, the writers have this habit of letting heavy important shit just slide, with every other character always underreacting or not caring at all. It was also all very short lived since everyone lost their powers now, hopefully not permanently because what the fuck. I’m just ? about why Reggie decided to leave him to die if he knew he needed the kids to activate the sigil (without Klaus he would have sacrificed Allison instead and that’s ic but the more the better, in theory?) maybe he was just afraid Luther’s ghost would manifest and tell him what really happened? I don’t know, it was heartbreaking to see (yet another betrayal from someone Klaus had grown to trust) but also a little bit thrown out there. The realization he comes to aka him not belonging to the living world, not deserving to live even because of his mistakes and the life he led was absolutely crushing, they immediately had to ruin it yet again with the funny lines but one day I will have my revenge and I hope he can have a real heart to heart with his siblings where they ALL listen to each other.

Okay I’m surely forgetting something (Reginald is an incredible character and even tho they keep tweaking him like they do everyone else, Colm manages to keeps a consistency to him that makes him absolutely compelling, just like Aidan does with Five. Very appreciated) but this is already impossibly long and impossibly messy probably.

To summarize, it is clear that S1 will never be topped, it was the perfect balance of serious topics treated seriously and light intervals of fun. But they had years to write it properly, now with Netflix it’s all about speed and the general public. To me, this will forever feel like a loss but I can only hope we’ll still get to enjoy the show overall like I did with this season in the end and maybe take it a little less seriously that I do.

[charmixpower]

Season three's Rivusa writing is so bad and I'm really salty that s3 Riven acts more like s1 Riven than s2 Riven and I want to attack who ever made this decision

These two, right? I love them. S2 made me love them (their relationship was super railroaded but it's Winx Club, that's how all the relationships work), and with the way his character was going I was expecting to see s3 Riven as the sassy/sarcastic team mate who caused problems for the groups enemies (think Riven being a lil shit to the guards when the girls went to confront mind controlled Sky), but that didn't happen

Sure I got the scene of Riven comforting the girls and Timmy after Tecna's death (and you can rip that scene out of my cold dead hands), but I've been dealing with stupid Rivusa drama that should of been resolved in s2, and it just had the worst conclusion

So I'm annoyed that I didn't get my sassy/sarcastic Rivusa making quips and being cute and funny, and I wanna drag the writing for a bit

This season is driving me crazy

Just

Riven: *goes to comfort Timmy who he thinks is in denial of his Gf's death, leaving Musa in the company of her friends trusting them to be their for Musa like he's trying to be there for Timmy who at the moment had no one*

Musa: *looks sad and shocked at this betrayal?*

Later

Riven: *flys into a blind possessive rage bc Musa looked slightly odd in a video of her near another man*

Musa: awwww💕💞 you love me

Like??

I'm sorry Winx club, but are you ok? This line of logic just don't track

Rainbow really said:

"We want bad boy/good girl couple"

"We'll he was bad in the first season, but during the second season he did a lot of self reflecting and he's with the good girl! He's slowly on his way to being a great person!"

"..... Make the good girl attracted to his old asshole traits, and make her annoyed when he does something that shows emotional growth"

"why are you the way that you are"

All this is telling me is that Musa being attracted to s1 Riven and being jealous of the way he was with Darcy wasn't just them rail-roading Rivusa, that was her ideal relationship and she was pissed as FUCK

Girl needs therepy JUST as badly as he does

Somebody has neglect/intamcy/abandonment issues and read way too many bad boy/good girl books as a coping mechanism and now has a warped definition of love

.... Girl me too honestly, media really be fucking up mentally ill kids that need good messages but instead they get weirdo possessive shit

You know it would be so interesting to see Musa and Riven's issues come into conflict with eachother, especially Musa realizing that "hey, thinking the guy who was constantly an asshole to you and your friends is a good potential romantic partner (s1 Riven my beloved little jerkass) is probably an indication that the way you interact with romantic relationships is probably unhealthy 😘" and then have them learn and grow to be better healthier people together!

But that's not going to happen bc that's not a real part of Musa's character, just a consequence of Riven (who they don't want to actually finish his character development from s2) being her assigned boyfriend and the writers trying to keep them as a bad boy/good girl couple

Unless you wanna take that time that Musa got super jealous and hunted down the gf of someone she had a crush on and aside from that had no connection to, and slapped her sister as an indication that Musa is actually a super jealous person and sees Riven doing the same thing as an indicator of love—but the messy writing is giving me a headache, because this reaction definitely was not intended

Just....Make them healthy and happy show...Your implying things you never ment to imply

[yjwhatif]

With the semi/cryptic confirmation of Ed and Barts relationship in the series I have a question:

Do you think everyone knows about them (in world) or do you think they’re keeping it secret from some?

It’s just a thought that’s been in my head recently. It is most likely fuelled by the whole drama of G&B not being able to depict a “specific character” (it’s definitely Bart) as gay. They’ve had to hide the relationship from their audience - because of ridiculous reasons - but there are still moments that bring up the question - Are they? Before the reveals from AskGreg, I kinda thought- well they are clearly not together yet, but perhaps they both have feelings for one another and are just waiting for the other to make the next move because they’re nervous idiots who don’t want to have read the situation wrong — all while their friends are like - seriously guys? just get together already. Kinda like they did in s1 with Wally and Artemis - and I guess early Supermartian as well - which I would have been okay with... though with the likelihood of there being at least another two year time skip you’d probably have missed the getting together moment - which would kinda suck. Anyway. With the information about the chances being they were supposed to clearly be in a relationship throughout S3 — which makes the whole structuring of ILLUSIONS just make sense — it’s got me viewing their moments with a whole new energy. Also, I saw this post by Greg —

And let me just clarify, I have no idea if this is actually referencing the Ed and Bart stuff, it might not be (probably isn't). This is purely me speculating.

My reading of this is they got told they couldn’t depict Bart as gay pretty late on and that specifically affected ILLUSIONS where they likely intended to confirm the relationship with that first shot - the kiss on the cheek moment. Even now that moment is just odd - because it’s there but it’s not - because technically there is no actual kiss… which I think is absolutely the point. It plants the seed without actually breaking any rules - all by keeping the momentum but removing the specific kiss frame. It’s the only moment that I feel is explicit in saying they are in a relationship - everything else you can just read into and imply there’s something - but they technically don’t confirm anything.

The whole thing is actually quite interesting - despite the reasoning for it being totally ridiculous. By keeping/showing what they did... People notice it. People talk about it. People reflect on it. More people talk about it. People writing. Make. Create. Discuss it. An entire audience is formed who want and support it. It’s a whole thing now because people noticed it and generated a positive response to it - and that was before all the AskGreg information. The whole reason YJ got a season 3 is because the fans fought to get it back. Enough people talked about it - and kept talking about it - to convince TPTB that the show should come back. Greg and Brandon know this. They know the power the fans have and maybe they hoped that power would help them again in freeing Bart from these ridiculous restrictions. #letbartoutofthecloset

Obviously, we can't know until S4 is released whether G&B got the permission to confirm Bart's sexuality the way they envisioned - but maybe the responses that came during the release of 3b were enough to convince TPTB that they were fighting a losing battle. But who knows, people in power can be very stubborn at times, so we will just have to see what we get. Fingers crossed they eased up though - and not just because of the Ed/Bart relationship (which I am obviously a fan of -- it's fine if not everyone is) - but because these restrictions on LGBTQ+ content shouldn't be a thing and need to stop -- there is just no validity in them.

Anyhow. despite their not being allowed to officially confirm the relationship, Greg's comment about Ed's having a boyfriend they can't name basically confirms the fact without technically breaking any rules again. Masterfully done Wiesman. With this, it implies the pair are in fact dating during S3 which brings us back to the original question... but who knows??

With the comments of Virgil during ILLUSIONS, it's easy to assume their friends do in fact know. They also seem to have no problem being close and interacting with one another whilst in the presence of others -- that is, except for one moment...

Ever since the first time I saw this episode (ELDER WISDOM) I have always found this moment strange - because Ed seems to get kinda awkward when Barry comes to check on Bart. (Or that's how I see it at least.) He realises Flash is standing there and immediately pulls his head down averting his gaze -- almost like he doesn't want to be seen by the elder. But why? Does Barry not know about the pair -- or maybe he doesn't know about Bart and Ed thinks their current closeness is too revealing -- who's to say Bart's even fully out to the world yet -- who's to say either of them are? We certainly don't since we weren't allowed to be shown. We can't know until we know - so until then we can play the speculation game while we wait.

Bart is certainly a bit of a secret keeper when it comes to being himself. I'm still convinced the Bart we see onscreen is merely his interpretation of what he thinks people expect from a speedster in this time. We saw 'real' Bart, he was snarky and cynical and nothing like the Bart we've had for the past two seasons. He said it himself - he's playing a character - and I don't think he knows how to break out of it - not while the possibility exists that it might hurt those he's grown to care about. Bart wants to be seen a certain way to avoid acknowledging the truth of the past - if people see him as happy and smiley, then no one will question him on things he doesn't want to talk about. The problem with that is you can't hide yourself forever - cracks begin to form and eventually, the truth comes out whether you want it to or not. So who knows how comfortable Bart is revealing any of his true self to those he cares about. Maybe his relationship with Ed will be the thing that finally helps him find comfort in being himself, whilst also trusting others to still accept him as himself... and maybe getting him that bit of therapy he really needs.

This brings us to Eduardo… First, can I just say it made me so happy to see Greg’s confirmation of Ed being gay - though it is slightly annoying that he was robbed of his explicit onscreen reveal in S3 thanks to the drama with Bart. His whole relationship to his powers in S2 to S3 fits the representation of coming to terms with your sexuality/identity from a very negative point of view. Feeling like it’s something that needs fixing or needs to be “cured” - to then finding the light and freedom in accepting yourself for you. His growth between seasons is brilliant. He understands the hate and insecurity the teens are feeling because he felt it himself. He does all he can to help them because he never felt he got that help when he needed it - and no one deserves to feel worse for being who they are. Obviously, the things he talks about are framed in the context of dealing with/accepting the meta-gene - yet there are certain moments where it seems he’s saying more than that…

All of which got me wondering - why did Ed originally runaway? It certainly wasn’t because of the meta-abilities he did not yet have. All he’s ever said on the subject was he thought he wanted to be with his father - the man it seems he barely had a relationship with. No, I think Ed has been running from himself for a long time and his dad just happened to be an actual direction for him to aim for. The way he speaks about his wanting to be “cured” and “praying to get rid of his powers” suggests an upbringing around religion and traditional ideas of there being a ‘normal/proper’ way to be — while anything that doesn’t fit that way is treated as other or something that needs to be changed or 'fixed'. Maybe he ran to avoid being found out and run the risk of being ostracised by those he loved. Or maybe he was found out and leaving wasn’t entirely his choice*. If this was the case, I can certainly imagine him not wanting to come out to his dad for fear of his reaction and completely losing all chance of that father-son relationship they’re both trying so hard to keep. It can seem easier to live in secret than risk the reality of loss. So while the meta-gene likely wasn’t the main thing he was angry about in S2, it was able to become a physical thing he could blame and focus his anger on - without having to think about where his issues truly lied… Though with a bit of time it also became the thing he was comfortable conveying his feelings through...

“I’ve learned to accept, even love my meta-abilities”

I love this line so much and it’s all because of the delivery by Freddy Rodrigues. There is the slightest hint of a pause before he says “meta-abilities”, which gives the impression he was about to say something else before then remembering himself and who he was talking to. Then there’s the small inflecion he put on “love”, which makes it sound like it’s the first time he’s heard himself say the words out loud. I don’t hear him talking about the gene - I hear him talking about finally accepting himself - all of himself - for the first time in maybe ever and finally feeling happy because of it. I hear growth... From being the angry 14-year-old skater who just wanted to run away and escape any way he could. To the 16-year-old councillor/Outsider jumping straight into the danger to protect and inspire those who need it. Both he and Bart are such strong characters with so much more to be seen - especially when it comes to the insecurities which lie behind their masks. They both compliment each other pretty perfectly - both powers-wise and personality-wise - meaning while they try to hide themself from others, I don't think it'll take long for them to realise they can't hide from each other.

Anywho, that’s all the speculatary nonsense I’ve got for today. This turned into such a patchwork of vaguely linkable thoughts I’ve had which barely relate to the one I started with - but that is usually how it goes. Take it as you will…

Also, completely unrelated to YJ, but Bi Tim Drake now exists in dc canon which is really cool - seeing all of the joy it’s sparked has really given me something to smile about this week… There is hope after all. 🌈

— LB ⚡️☀️

* OK so here’s a little random snapshot into the chaos of my mind— as I was writing the Ed stuff I had a scene pop into my head of Ed finally -for whatever reason- having to tell his dad that he didn’t leave his abuelo’s home - he got kicked out. His dads confused about this and asks Why? What did you do? And Ed’s like Nothing… I didn’t do anything wrong… he just… found out something. So Seniors like Found out what Eduardo? And Ed’s getting really nervous now because he doesn’t want to say it - That I, um… I’m… Senior step a fraction closer as he picks up on Ed’s anxiety but remains an appropriate distance - Son? Then after a tensening silence he finally says it - sounding the most vulnerable he has ever been - I’m gay… The silence is there again, heavy and unnerving, neither saying a word. Ed can’t move as he’s lock in his elders unreadable glare. Expecting the worse his head drops to take in the floor - anything that isn’t the disappointment ahead - he feels the urge to disappear burning up inside him - consuming him. Then just as he’s about to escape he’s suddenly grounded by a steadying hand rooting itself on his shoulder. Tentatively he lifts his gaze to witness his father, there, with nothing but love and support in his eyes - Mijo. The clamping in his chest dissipates as all the tension escapes at once, along with the breath he hadn’t realised he was holding. Ed embraces his dad and the elder embraces his son. Together. A family.

Anyway. That’s probably a load of rubbish but hey my minds full of it… but basically I really want to see a tender moment between Ed and his dad. For whatever reason. Something where Ed’s in a vulnerable state and in need of some emotional support from his father - and without hesitation his father steps up - because that’s what we haven’t seen from them yet. It would perfectly portray the strength of their relationship as father and son - despite their previous struggles - and prove that Senior is willing to support his son no matter the situation as the father - not just the scientist. Its the final step in their healing journey and I wanna see it so bad!!

[cantshinebrighterthanyou]

Parallels and Contradictions: Gina Porter (S1E1 / S3 Trailer)

"My first time really going up for the lead." That line stood out to me immediately. Because the first time we meet her character back in S1, it's established that she's been the lead in every other musical she's been in.

Right?

Well, no. Not exactly.

It's established that she's never been an understudy. The implications of those scenes side by side are fascinating to me. We know that Gina would have liked to play the lead in S1 (re: Wonderstudies) and S2 ("playing a part I didn't want"), so the key word is "really going up for", which she also emphasizes. The way I see it, there are really only three possible (interesting) interpretations:

1 - Gina has played leads at other schools before, she just never had to try out.

Or at least, she never had to try very hard. Cause she's just that good of a performer. This could be either literal (unlikely), or Gina might have thought that there was never any competition at her old schools (similar to the way Lily thinks during S2 auditions.)

While that would be in character for the persona that early-S1 Gina portrays herself as, the way S3-Gina emphasizes that this is the first time "really going up for the lead"... if it was about not having had competition before East High, that would be uncharacteristically mean for the version of her that we've gotten to know since Homecoming. So in my mind, this is probably the least likely interpretation.

2 - This is the first time her heart is in it.

We know from Season 1, that Gina has been raised in a way that puts her under a lot of pressure to be perfect. Even after she lets down her guard around the Wildcats, her difficulties adapting to being co-coreographer and one of three people in her, Ashlyn and Kourtney's audition show that this mindset is something she still struggles/struggled with.

Maybe, after all that character development across two seasons, she's finally ready to audition for a lead - not because she feels that's what she's supposed to want, because for the first time it's what she does want.

3 - Gina was lying in Season 1.

When the audience meets her, she is portrayed as both fiercly talented and really condescending to Nini, who has mostly been cast in ensemble so far. Gina says "I've never been an understudy" and the implied reading is "I've been the lead every time I've tried." Except that's now been contradicted. So has she either been an understudy or has she never been a lead or an understudy?

Over the course of Season 1 we learn that being the new transfer student all the time has left Gina feeling like she has to put up a facade in every new place. Appear confident to the point of coming across as a bit intimidating and unapproachable. She's essentially accepted being labelled 'mean girl' as the price she pays for the respect and admiration she needs to make her mark - to make sure she's remembered for something once she inevitably leaves. Even if what she'll be remembered for is a persona that crushed dance solos and the short-term goals of people like Nini. Having the reputation of someone who plays leads all the time would certainly fit and help with the persona she's putting forward in the first few episodes of the show.

Now that she has close friends she can be vulnerable around, if she was lying/lying by omission, has it just not come up again? Is she still struggeling to break free from her perfectionism and has kept that secret until now? Is that an arc we're going to see?

(It could also just be bad inconsistent writing. But that's the least interesting theory, so I'm not gonna bother with it when I could be having fun with headcanons instead lmao)

Maybe it's one of the first times she thinks she has competition. Maybe it's the first time she thinks she has a chance. Maybe it's the first time she's doing it just for herself. Maybe it's something else entirely.

Whatever is going on with that line, I'm so damn fascinated by it.

[a-brush-full-of-paint]

Recently, I started seeing this post floating around and it got me thinking.

How old is MePhone?

This post ended up pretty long so I put it under a read more, haha.

TLDR: Due to the lack of information, I couldn’t find a clear answer, however with a lot of assumptions, I concluded he’s 3 years old!

I suppose to figure that out we’d have to figure out: 1. How much time passes between each episode; 2. How much time passed between seasons; And for future reference: 3. Whether the other S2 episodes (that we haven’t seen yet) are happening alongside S3 or after it.

I decided to handle each problem individually as to not lose my mind. :P

The first thing I could think of was the asks Taylor has answered in the past (here and here) but they boil down to “Unless it’s important, we never really thought or cared about it”. 

Ok, that’s... a little disappointing. But you know what? Whatever! I’ll overthink things then! I can work with this.

So based on how the characters talk in season 1, the episodes seem to be happening on the date of release (with the exception of episode 18 in s1, of course). So I went and looked at the release dates of every episode of season 1 and calculated how long it was in-universe - A year and seven months. (I realized I could’ve just looked at the first and last episode after I finished. oops.) In season 1 ep 14 he says he’s just a year old. (I would’ve put a screenshot here but the episode has no captions! The time stamp is 3:37.)

If we were to assume he means exactly a year old (which is likely, based on season 2), that means that by the end of season one, he’s a year and 5 months old.

Now, onto season two where things get complicated.

The last time I remember dates being mentioned in s2 is in ep6 where MePhone makes a Halloween based challenge and MePad says he’s off by “over a month”.

Yea, that doesn’t really narrow it down. So I went and looked at the release dates up until this episode. Here’s the list (date/month/year):

Ep1: 02 April 2013 Ep2: 02 May 2013 Ep3: 25 June 2013 Ep4: 23 August 13 Ep5: 03 November 2013 Ep6: 02 February 2014

As you can see, the gap increased over time. That doesn’t really help!! Like at all!!

If we were to go with the ‘Episodes exactly a month apart’ formula like in season 1, ep6 would’ve been in September so that’s not right. We can only make assumptions but I’ll save that for later.

Episode 9 implies that there are deadlines as to when episodes need to come out as he mentions a schedule:

And the white board in episode 10 looks exactly like in episode 9:

(Screenshot from episode 9 when Mic finds Taco and screams ^)

(Screenshot from the start of episode 10 ^)

So I’m pretty confident in saying that ep10 is happening a little after ep9. Maybe an hour at most? But I think that’s a bit of a reach, since there’d probably be more on the white board if so much time had passed.

And episode 14 is happening right after ep13 (......obviously.)

He also says that episodes 7 and 8 fucked up his schedule? But the eliminations still happened (I’m assuming on time) so like. I don’t know.

............And here is where the canon information ends and my assumptions begin.

Since there’s a schedule, then there’s probably an equal amount of time between the episodes. Based on MePad’s line and episode 5’s release date, we can assume ep6 takes place in December. And if we were to assume that episode 1 is happening on the second of April, then there’s been 9 months between these episodes. That means there’s a month and a half between each episode! Here’s my timeline (date/month/year):

Ep1: 02 April 2013 Ep2: 17 May 2013 Ep3: 02 July 2013 Ep4: 17 August 2013 Ep5: 02 October 2013 Ep6: 17 December 2013 Ep7: 02 February 2014 Ep8: 17 March 2014 Ep9&10: 02 May 2014 Ep11: 17 June 2014 Ep12: 02 August 2014 Ep13&14: 17 September 2014

So if MePhone was 1 year and 6 months old in November of 2012 then at episode 13&14 he’s 3 years and 5 months old!

As for season 3, we have absolutely no point of reference. Not for how much time passes between episodes or when it started. So unfortunately, for that I have nothing. Maybe that’ll change with the following episodes though? <:3c

All of this is ignoring the time he spent living with Cobs, as we have no way of calculating that. MePhone saying he’s just a year old in season 1 makes sense since he had erased those memories and likely started the show immediately.

And uhhh yea, I think that’s everything?? If I’ve forgotten something I’ll either edit or reblog dskjngjjkdsnjfks

Thanks for reading have a good dayyyyyy :D

[animecreator3000]

About the Boueibu iceberg

@delphoxqueen asked me to explain about my list for the iceberg so here it is. I might update this from time to time with links and stuff if I stumble across the original posts. This is all from what I know so feel free to add new info. Also, spoiler warning for RobiHachi and the Boueibu manga and novels. (This is like a masterpost it’s very long)

1. There’s a theory in tumblr about which decade the series is set in, using data like the friday the 13th calendar in s2 ep11. In HK we got a second number for when the next monthly Pretty Boy Contest was happening and using the one from Love it was theorized that around a decade had passed since then, which ended up being true.

2. The stage play had a few original songs and characters exclusive to it so unless you watched the full performance, you probably weren’t able to witness all of them. One of the characters is called “Robato Deniro”, as romanized in the stage play booklet I own.

3. The nurse and the cafeteria staff from the s1 mobile game appear in the background in around the first half of s2 ep3.

4. S2 had an unfinished manga that was only available online and was never released on physical format; it was centered around the defense club and sometimes the conquest club and Beppu brothers. All that’s left from what I know are the scans linked on magicalgirlsandcerulean’s blog.

5. This isn’t that obscure because it’s talked about in the anime, but I’m mentioning it because I think many people dropped it before the ova, where right at the beginning it is revealed that the alien that resucitated Mr. Tawarayama twice was, as described by Io, a “mulberry-colored naked mole rat-looking thing”, and was nicknamed “Moley-san” by Yumoto. At least in the anime, we had never heard before of who this was and it never appeared on screen nor was mentioned again.

6. In HK ep8, Karurusu promises the knights to grant a wish if they show him how earthlings spend summer. Kyoutarou reveals at the end of the episode that he wished that summer lasted one more day so he could spend it doing nothing, which prompts Ichiro to theorize that it’s the 32nd of august, and the next day is the second 1st of september.

7. The stage play was was held from march 10th to 13rd, of which the latter is Ryuu’s birthday. There’s an additional recording of a small celebration with cake focused on Ryuu and Io.

8. Atsushi mentions his older sister in the flashback at the beginning of s1 ep4, but she never appears or is mentioned again.

9. There’s a few posts on tumblr theorizing about what happened to the Hakone parents since Yumoto only says in s2 ep3 that according to Gora, “they are busy with their hot springs tour”. En mentions that it’s a bit suspicious, but it’s all the information we have from the anime. Posts talk about the parents perhaps passing away from an accident or an illness, thus the reason why Gora was so worried about Yumoto’s cold in s1 ep10, but from another post I think it’s implied in the second novel that they actually left their home when Yumoto was still a toddler.

10. It’s no secret that the surnames of the characters are all real onsens in Japan that even the seiyuus have visited, but apparently the Arima onsen has two different kinds of water, “kinsen (gold hot spring)” and “ginsen (silver hot spring)”, with different properties each, and the Kusatsu onsen water also has certain properties, both that were used to build the characters. Additionally, Ryuu’s favorite food are Sato Nishiki cherries, which are grown in the same prefecture, Yamagata, as his onsen, Zaou.

11. The press club lose relevance after s1, with only Kinosaki and Tazawa reappearing briefly in s2 ep2 to interview the Beppu twins after they arrive at the school. Tazawa doesn’t even have lines. Hireashi is mentioned by Zundar in ep11.

12. What the heck

13. Exclusively in the manga we see that Arima met Kinshiro and Atsushi when they were little and they were good friends, but when they met again as adults, Kinshiro seemingly didn’t remember Arima. Atsushi, however, stated that Kinshiro’s talent is remembering people’s faces and names, so Arima wonders if he’s just trying to distance himself from him. He also explains to Akoya that he follows Kinshiro and obeys him because as a child, he was fascinated by his radiant smile. This is never talked about in the anime.

14. Like the previous point, the anime never shows Akoya being bullied, at most just a slight dislike of his full name, but the manga shows that he was made fun of for it and how he actually hates his surname, to the point of introducing himself formally to the president and vicepresident of the student council as “Holy Angel Akoya”.

15, 16, 17, 19. Batonama lives were the livestreams done through the franchise by the defense club seiyuus on youtube and niconico. They’re all on youtube, without any kind of translation.

Love-ko is a girl with a shell bikini drawn on a piece of cardboard that was used as a girlfriend in the Batonama Love! lives, acted by the seiyuus themselves.

RobiHachi has one episode full of official Boueibu artwork and a parody of the series too, a Love-ko doll appears, and Wombat appears as well, named “The Don”. It received an english dub, so for a bit, people were excited that Wombat was going to speak in english too. Also, various mechas appear in both Boueibu and RobiHachi.

18. The director of Fairy Ranmaru (Masakazu Hishida if I’m not wrong) revealed in an interview that he was inspired by Boueibu and aimed to make a show like that.

20, 21. The website super-groupies.com has results for defense and conquest club lingerie sets, dc and VEPPer tote bags, the Beppus’ scarf rings, dc bath sets and the pumps magicalgirlsandcerulean mentioned. I’ve found the s1 Loveracelets and Caerula Adamas’ ring on different sites, the True Loveracelets on TheChara’s twitter and the Happybraces (apparently called “Hapibure”) on broccoli.co.jp but I’m not sure where exactly they were all announced and sold, so I’ll just drop that.

22, 33. Boueibu was originally pretty much a copy of Sailor Moon, I think they were all going to be called “Lackluster Moon” and that stuff and be literally Sailor Moon genderbent. They were all different from color palettes to physical features (except Yumoto’s), and Ryuu was a shota, even smaller than Yumoto. Their names were also very reminiscent of the five Sailor Senshis’. Even if they made it more original, the show is still clearly inspired by Sailor Moon (just look at Caerula Adamas lol) and Pretty Cure. It has also referenced, very blatantly, animes like Doraemon, Detective Conan, Aikatsu and even Vocaloid, when Kyoutarou tries to guess what Karurusu is saying with ““Just Google It, Asshole”?” in ep1.

23. Wombat’s real name and the name of his planet sound like gibberish to the earthlings and ends up being named after the Earth animal, but Zundar, Dadacha, Karurusu and Furanui all have original names. And I think Hireashi means “goldfish”?

24. If you google “zundar technology”, it’s actually a company in Shanghai, China. Aren’t Wombat and Zundar always talking about “advanced alien technology”?

25. Zundar and Dadacha are siblings, so are Karurusu and Furanui, and so are their father King Kamopapa and their uncle minister Wao, but neither are the same species and, except the first two, not even the same color. But they are supposedly related because they share birthmarks or something like that...

26. Everyone who’s in this fandom knows about the pixel blur and voice pitch censor from s1, but I’ve added it anyway because it’s so rare for mahou shoujo and shounen animes to explain why the heroes aren’t recognized when transformed.

27. A good while of s2 ep11 is spent discussing Zundar’s ex-wife and his problems to give child support. Naturally, he gets mad at this.

28. “Money doesn’t betray” (s1 ep6) and “The despair hidden behind your smile that comes from not being understood” (s3 ep11) are sentences that came out of nowhere and implied that the people they were said by (Io) or about (Taiju) respectively had some kind of angst going on but were never explained at all. They’re famous for just that.

29. The Beppu twins’ house in Andromeda shown in flashbacks had strange green circles that apparently are from another anime I don’t know but honestly I didn’t get it very well... It was revealed on a tweet from Takamatsu.

30. Alien language mostly appeared in s2 due to the many flashbacks of Aki and Haru in Andromeda, but in Boueibu s1, it appears on the Zundar Needle before it is shot on the human. It appears a lot through RobiHachi as well, due to being a story about travelling through space. There might be an alphabetical chart somewhere, but I can’t assure it exists, I might even have dreamed it.

31. Hikaru Midorikawa as the melon monster, Kousuke Toriumi as the bishounen monster, Yoshitsugu Matsuoka as the kotatsu and panda monsters and Takuya Eguchi as the remote controller monster in s1 and 2, before going on to voice the main cast in HK. Keisuke Koumoto voiced Hatchi Kita in RobiHachi as well as Akihiko in Boueibu, and the characters look similar.

A new addition is that so far Boueibu is the only anime I’ve seen where children weren’t voiced by female seiyuus, but by actual children. Personally, it’s charming and makes it so much more realistic, specifically since no women appear in the franchise at all either (not counting Protag-chan in the game).

32. Speaking of seiyuus, Can I Destroy The Earth? had a dub shown in ep11/12 (?) that made Gora the villain that wanted Earth to stay the same and not progress, against the monsters that supposedly wanted to bring good things to earthlings. Aki and Haru quickly dismissed this dub as fake. (I made a mistake in the title in the previous post btw)

34. As seen in the glossary in the Boueibu Mook (I think, but might not be the mook), Caerula Adamas’ speeches are based on an old japanese detergent commercial that went “Gold, silver, pearl, gift”.

35. In the manga there’s a short parody of the first chapter of Sailor Moon with “Pretty Boy Guardian Gakuran Akoya”. The conquest club manga was released before the anime, so I remember reading somewhere that a fake website appeared for the Gakuran Akoya manga, before turning into the conquest club manga website in the day of its release.

36. Cgi was used a few times in the anime: s2 ep10 for a short sequence of the defense club on a rollercoaster and the carousel monster, ep11 for a cenital shot of the Battle Lovers singing, and HK ep12 for the Honyalaland soldiers and the Wao mecha.

37. The toothbrush incident in s1 ep7. (It’s definitely well-known but it’s so weird lol)

38. “We hope we can see each other again someday!” Something along those lines was the last text to appear in the last episode of HK, implying a s2. We all know how that went.

[imperialkatwala]

Okay so!! I just finished season two of the Owl House and watched Thanks to Them like. two days ago. So I have no idea if this has been said or not, I have not a clue what the current fanon is, I just had a Thought and wanted to share. This might be an ice cold take. I have no idea.

Anyways here's my Theory On Flapjack (spoilers for the whole series pretty much)

I think Flapjack was originally Caleb Wittebane's palisman.

First piece of evidence: The first time we meet Flapjack, he's living with the Bat Queen, which implies that he had a witch at some point, but something happened and he had to go live with her instead. The scar over his eye suggests that whatever happened was traumatic, at least for Flapjack, though quite possibly to his witch, as well. When he decides he wants to be Hunter's palisman, the Bat Queen implies that it's been a long time since Flapjack chose to go with anyone. 

(S2:E6 Hunting Palismen, 19:20)

We don’t know how long palismen live, but the Bat queen herself has been alive for thousands of years. Hundreds of years (say, the time between Caleb being alive and Hunter being alive) isn’t out of the question.

(S1:E10 Escape of the Palisman, 19:23)

Based on earlier lines in the Hunting Palismen episode - e.g. "What a wonderful idea" - we can assume that the picking of palismen hasn't happened before, at least not in this way, so whoever had Flapjack last was probably the one to carve him. It's suggested in Thanks to Them that Caleb was learning to do magic, like Luz (or at least wanted to), so it doesn't seem like much of a stretch to suggest he might have carved a palisman.

Second piece of evidence: Hunter is a grimwalker clone of Caleb, or however the verbage works, but Hunter doesn't know that for a good portion of the show. This is important because when he goes undercover at Hexside, he uses Caleb as his fake name. This is, crucially, not Hunter’s idea. He scrambles for an answer when Willow and Gus ask for his name, and Flapjack is the one to suggest the name Caleb.

(S2:E13 Any Sport in a Storm, 7:58)

Third piece of evidence: In the episode King’s Tide, during the final confrontation, Belos nearly attacks Hunter, but stops, shifting his face back to human and guilt tripping this poor kid yet again. Then he sees Flapjack and immediately goes back on the offensive - it’s made very clear, Flapjack is the one causing this switch, not anything Hunter does or says.

(S2:E21 King’s Tide, 17:05) 

It’s interesting that the subtitles say “kill him” there. That’s a bit of an odd phrasing when Belos is acting alone. Also, the intonation is strange for it to be “kill him” - I hear it as “Caleb.”

Fourth piece of evidence: This screenshot from Thanks to Them, during the story of how Philip and Caleb disappeared. The accompanying line is “[The witch] dazzled [Caleb] with magic and visions of a strange yet beautiful place.”

(S3:E1 Thanks to Them, 31:53)

Fifth piece of evidence: Also from Thanks to Them, Flapjack knows things he would have no reason to know. He knows there is something hidden in that house, in the human realm, where he has in theory never been before. It’s unclear if he knows exactly what is hidden there, but he is the one who leads them to the rebus map, which is implied to have been Caleb’s means of traveling back and forth between realms.

(S3:E1 Thanks to Them, 8:48)

And finally: This has been pinging around in my brain since I first learned Flapjack’s name. “Flapjack” is not a Boiling Isles word. In fact, I can’t think of a time where pancakes were referenced at all (I could be wrong about that but nothing comes to mind).

In fact, Hunter comments on the name the first time he hears it.

(S2:E9 Eclipse Lake, 21:38)

Flapjack is an old-timey human word. Very interesting name for a palisman on the Boiling Isles. Unless, of course, he wasn’t named by a witch.

These have been my extensive thoughts on Flapjack. Canon has hurt me so I turn to writing essays on obscure details. Have a good night

[shipping-receiving]

“Is there a chance you won’t be okay?”

An Analysis of Hwang Si-mok and Han Yeo-jin’s Final Scene in Stranger/Secret Forest Season 2

Alright, it’s been almost a week, I’m still crying every time I re-watch this scene, and somehow I’ve written 3,500 words about five minutes of this damn show, so here we go:

As with Stranger/Secret Forest Season 1, Si-mok and Yeo-jin’s final scene in Season 2 ended with a farewell meal, complete with soju. On a very basic level, this meal felt significant in a season where Si-mok was subject, more than ever, to interrupted meals or meals he didn’t particularly want to be present for – at least until he was able to have a drink with Yeo-jin in 2x12, and then lunch with her in 2x13.

More importantly, though, this scene is the most loaded scene we’ve ever witnessed between these two characters. That’s saying something for such a nuanced, detail-oriented show, in which two people placing their phones in a storage locker at a detention centre can possess such emotional weight, particularly when played by two actors who make very subtle and sophisticated acting choices.

I’m struck particularly by the way this scene bursts with subtext – things unsaid and unresolved – when Lee Soo-yeon could just as easily have written a neater, more light-hearted exchange that reaffirmed their connection, more along the lines of their final scene in 1x16. There are a thousand other ways their farewell could have been presented to us that would have given a greater or at least a more comfortable sense of finality, even taking into account their character development over this season. This lack of resolution is evident not just from what happened during the scene, but also when the scene happened within the episode itself. The meal occurred after Yeo-jin had been bullied by her colleagues, but before she met her new boss – at this point, it seemed to the viewer that her promotion would likely bring not the pride she experienced in S1, but more challenges and isolation.

More so than the Seo Dong-jae cliffhanger, this scene makes me think that this was written with a future Season 3 arc in mind, one in which Si-mok and Yeo-jin’s relationship will continue to evolve and deepen substantially (whether that will be ‘romantic’ remains to be seen). Considering they’re the core partnership of this series, there was a deliberate withholding of stability in their farewell, rather than an affirmation of it. I won’t go so far as to say destabilisation – because despite their separation, I think their bond is more profound than ever – but at the bare minimum an absence of certainty, when it could have been written otherwise.

Anyway, on to the breakdown:

The scene opens with Si-mok carefully folding a napkin and placing cutlery on it for Yeo-jin, a simple gesture of care that Cho Seung-woo plays with a startlingly gentle attentiveness. Immediately, it signals that there’s been a shift in Si-mok – how he’s able, at least with Yeo-jin, to do something that isn’t just polite, but also thoughtful. The director even snuck in a little clue that Si-mok is thinking of Yeo-jin as he’s doing this – Yeo-jin actually appears at the left side of the frame from the start, as the camera pans over to Si-mok: 

In this shot, Si-mok is visually separated from Yeo-jin by a pillar. This could be read on the one hand as a kind of sectioning out of his mental space – a visualisation of his thoughts of her as he prepares her cutlery ��� and on the other hand, as a foreshadowing of their impending separation. (I do, however, enjoy the first interpretation more. It reminds me a little bit of her sketch of the inside of his head from 1x06.)

Back to the napkin: if you look closer, Si-mok didn’t fold a napkin for himself – his spoon and chopsticks are on the table next to his bowl – so this isn’t just a matter of neatly setting the table for their meal. In a very small way, he’s anticipating her needs, just as she has done with him in much more demonstrative ways in both seasons (helping him with his headaches being the most obvious one). This isn’t something he’s necessarily actively worked on in the past two years; he’s still the person who doesn’t instinctively say ‘hello’ over the phone, or ask after someone’s kids without being reminded. Yet, it’s a capacity for care that has expanded significantly, at least where Yeo-jin is concerned.

Compare his behaviour with the equivalent scene in 1x16 – back then, he only ordered a bowl of noodles for himself and not for her. Interestingly, Yeo-jin’s comment to Si-mok during that part of the S1 scene was, “Gosh, you haven’t changed one bit,” suggesting that he was, by nature, somehow unable to be considerate to someone else. Just from the opening to the S2 scene, we see that that comment is not or no longer true, at least when it comes to the way he acts around her. In both the S1 and S2 scenes, he was the first person to arrive for their meal; in S1, the first thing he said was, “Why are you late?” and had already ordered his soju and noodles. This time, however, Yeo-jin asks him, “Why didn’t you order something first?” – implying that although she was late again, he was patiently waiting for her to arrive.

There’s also a difference in the way he responds to her appearance. Now, I personally don’t think we can frame Si-mok’s connection with and care for Yeo-jin in conventional understandings of romantic attraction (which is not to say romance isn’t possible for them canonically, I just think it will manifest differently). Nevertheless, I’d say that he responds to her haircut in a way that is probably as close to the mechanics of attraction as we could possibly expect from Si-mok – not just the shock of “oh, you cut your hair,” but lingering looks and nostalgia for when they first met; nothing at all like noticing that she’s wearing lipstick and saying, not so kindly, that it looks weird. In fact, in a direct parallel to this moment in 1x16, Yeo-jin asks him if her haircut is “weird”, and he says, “I just meant it’s different.”

(I think the way he stares at her is not wholly due to being ‘transfixed’, but also because he’s trying to figure out what such a drastic change means, and why now, and whether he has to worry. Basically, his brain is trying to compute; part of his stare is him trying to analyse her behaviour, just as part of it is him revisiting his memories of her from two years ago, and part of it might well be an attraction he doesn’t quite understand or know how to reel in. He does stare at her for an inordinately long time.)

Switching over to Yeo-jin, I really enjoy this little routine of hers when they have meals together – how she narrows down options for him to a series of questions, and even helps him decide on occasion. It never feels like she’s trying to speak for him, but rather that she knows his likes and dislikes. Her question in this scene – makgeolli or soju – is phrased like her question in 2x02, when she asks him to choose between stir-fried octopus and hot pot; when she specifically requests a lot of cabbages, she must be thinking of how he ate lots of them in 2x12. This kind of care comes naturally to Yeo-jin – we’re talking about the person who took in a murder victim’s mother in S1 – but it’s still a form of intimacy, and one that Si-mok is clearly used to as well.

Soon, though, we have our first indication that things might not be so comfortable – not in the sense that their bond has weakened, but that there are fundamental shifts occurring in both of their lives that affect this bond. Si-mok, after a lot more staring, points out that her short hair reminds him of when they first met. (He wouldn’t have needed to take that much time to come up with that simple observation, which makes me think he was trying to choose his words carefully.) With enthusiasm, Yeo-jin responds with, “I haven’t changed a bit, right?” – echoing her comment about Si-mok in 1x16.

Perhaps Yeo-jin had meant this comment sincerely in the moment, but given context, her cheerfulness feels performative. We’ve just witnessed her crying after being bullied by her colleagues, in contrast to the warmth that she enjoys with her old Yongsan team; we’ve observed her changes – a result of maturity, disillusionment, a loss of innocence – throughout the whole season. In fact, she seems to have cut her hair precisely because she feels weighed down by all that has unfolded, just as one might after a break-up or some kind of painful life event. It’s a decision that seems to say: I acknowledge that everything has changed around me, but maybe doing this will make me feel like myself again, or the ‘myself’ of two years ago.

Si-mok, of course, isn’t quite so able to agree that she hasn’t changed. Multiple times this season, he’s observed the changes in her – “You don’t draw these days?” in 2x06, “Didn’t you want to work in police administration?” in 2x08, “You weren’t the kind of person to postpone things.” in 2x12. Now, he doesn’t respond to her question, and instead looks at her in silence, smiling only ever so slightly when she shakes her head playfully (and we know that she can make him smile wider than that). Perhaps he’s even choosing to withhold any judgment of her. But this is a moment, I think, that factors into his decision to ask her that question at the end of this scene.

Next, we have confirmation that Si-mok was the one who asked Yeo-jin out for dinner, just as he had in 2x02 once he’d settled into his new posting. It isn’t clear in 1x16 if it was Yeo-jin who’d asked to meet Si-mok when she found out he was being posted to Namhae, but it’s been affirmed twice this season that he prioritises this time with her (even more so than meeting his own mother). Then, he breaks the news to her that he is leaving for Gangwon Province this weekend.

In 1x16, Yeo-jin finds out that Si-mok is leaving from the special investigation team, without Si-mok being present. At the time, they still think he’ll be sent to the US for training, and Yeo-jin is visibly disappointed. She has the same crestfallen look on her face in this scene, in front of Si-mok. She doesn’t want to be separated from him, and when she asks about his cases, it seems she’d expected him to stay for quite a while longer to see them through. Mind you, Wonju is only about 1.5 hours drive from Seoul (yes, I mapped it), but Yeo-jin still looks like she’s had the rug pulled from under her. Perhaps, in an uncertain time, she’d hoped that Si-mok would be in her life more than the few weeks he’d spent in Seoul.

Yeo-jin’s responses in both 1x16 and 2x16 are a pretty big indicator that she has feelings for Si-mok (whether she’s aware or willing to acknowledge those feelings is another matter). I suppose one could argue that her reaction is simply out of sadness at the thought of being separated from a friend, but based on certain events in S2 – for example, Choi Bit questioning Yeo-jin about her relationship with Si-mok, and Yeo-jin deflecting – I think the viewer is at the very least meant to question whether their bond is truly ‘platonic’. This isn’t the type of show to include superfluous details just to tease their viewers, and in any case, Si-mok and Yeo-jin’s connection has only deepened through the course of this season despite being on opposing sides of the council. It feels like the emotional stakes are much higher this time than back in S1.

As Yeo-jin is absorbing this news from Si-mok, there are a couple of little details here that feel significant to me, but could be nothing: first, the way Si-mok half-holds out his hand as Yeo-jin is pouring her soju, just as he’d held out his hand when she was pouring makgeolli in 2x13. Second, how she pours out a cup of soju for herself first, but not for Si-mok. In any other situation, it might seem impolite – after all, Si-mok is the one who’d chosen the drink – but here it seems that she’s pouring a drink to steady or busy herself more than anything, and she doesn’t drink from it till after their toast.

Following this, Yeo-jin confides in Si-mok that “I never thought the council would end like this. [...] Will the higher-ups be replaced with more honest people while I’m catching bad men out there?” When he replies with, “Why are you talking as if those two are the same?”, it’s yet another of his probing questions, questions she never seems to have an answer to. The Yeo-jin of old would never have assumed that all the higher-ups are dishonest – she has always seen the good in people – but she feels betrayed by Choi Bit, the one person she sincerely respected. Here, she changes the topic rather than opening up, reverting to her most comfortable mode of showing care for someone else by asking Si-mok why he looks so tired. It’s a guardedness that we’re not used to seeing from Yeo-jin; when Si-mok met with Choi Bit at the start of the episode, he describes Yeo-jin as someone who “opens up easily”, even if she doesn’t “blindly trust or respect just about anybody”.

While Yeo-jin is evasive, Si-mok is more willing to be vulnerable in comparison. His openness isn’t surprising, given that Si-mok has shared more about his life and thoughts with her than with anyone else, but it is still heartwarming to see. Instead of brushing off Yeo-jin’s comment, he tells her about his dream of the prosecutors from the Western Office. For anyone else, this might not seem like a significant conversation topic, but for someone who hardly ever dreams (which Si-mok mentioned in S1), it feels like he’s sharing something special with her. This dream, and his factual recounting of it, seems to be a means for his brain to process the traumatic events of two years ago.

Before Si-mok tells Yeo-jin about his dream, there’s a quick insertion here – a lament about seeing your boss in your dreams – that suggests that she is still troubled about Choi Bit, more than she’s letting on. Again, Si-mok doesn’t push her to elaborate, though I think he’s been absorbing all the things that seem off with Yeo-jin since she arrived. Yeo-jin proceeds to analyse his dream in her head, but doesn’t verbalise her interpretation (that Yoon Se-won might be considering suicide, since he went off in the same direction as two characters who have both passed). As she’s deep in thought, Si-mok tilts his head questioningly at her; she says that he probably won’t have time to go anywhere else this weekend, implying that she was thinking of bringing him with her to visit Yoon.

Knowing that Si-mok won’t be able to come with her, however, leaves Yeo-jin resigned. As she announces, “All right, then,” I wonder if this is the moment that she’s choosing to steel herself. The two people she treasures and respects most in her life (Si-mok and Choi Bit) are disappearing from it, and she will have to learn to move forward without them.

Now, we come to their toast. In the corresponding scene in S1, their toast is bittersweet, but has a sense of resolution; upbeat piano music plays in the background as Yeo-jin says, “Goodbye, I won’t be able to see you off,” while Si-mok echoes that with, “Good luck in your new position. Sorry I can’t attend the ceremony.” In S2, the music is quieter, and much more sombre – I’ve been describing it in my head as ‘breathy sad wooooo music’ – even as Yeo-jin laughs and says, a little helplessly: “It feels like we keep repeating this.”

Si-mok, on his part, doesn’t even echo her laugh with anything more than the barest smile. Instead, he says, with a deep sincerity: “Take care, Senior Inspector Han.” As I mentioned earlier, there are many ways that they could have written or played this scene to convey even a little more resolution – choosing different music, or having Si-mok smile along with Yeo-jin, or even giving Yeo-jin a bit more notice of his departure so that she can prepare a gift (as if to say, she doesn’t draw as much these days, but she would for his sake). But the viewer is made to feel all of their reluctance, even sadness at this separation, even if those feelings are hidden beneath pleasantries. “Well, I guess I’ll be okay,” Yeo-jin says, as if there’s a possibility that she won’t be – that this is something she has to recover from in the future.

Si-mok considers her words, her phrasing, her demeanour, tilts his head at her again and says: “Is there a chance you won’t be okay?”

This, above all other lines, shows how much Si-mok has grown in the past couple of years because of Yeo-jin’s influence. Whereas he started S1 cold, guarded, and isolated from the rest of his colleagues, he has arrived at a point where he has cultivated enough of an emotional sensitivity to ask her this question – to show her care, just as she has shown care to him and other people around her. I’d even venture to say that Si-mok feels, himself, that there’s a chance he won’t be as okay with their separation as he might have been two years ago. In 2x05, during the conversation with Seo Dong-jae outside the prison, Dong-jae asks Si-mok: “You don’t feel a tad bit sad even if you’re sent far away, do you?” Si-mok answers, “No.” That doesn’t feel so definitive anymore. There isn’t anything either Si-mok or Yeo-jin can do, given that they both prioritise their careers and understand that these careers follow a certain trajectory, but parting feels a little bit harder this time.

Yeo-jin answers Si-mok’s question as reassuringly as she can, with an adorable smile and shake of the head; she lets out an “ah” after she downs her soju, as if to reorient herself. Yet, her cheerfulness in the rest of the scene – her excitement at the food, her over-enthusiastic chewing – rings empty as the sombre music continues to play in the background. For perhaps the first time in the entire series, there is something about Yeo-jin that seems feigned. Strangely, it is Si-mok’s blank expression that represents the more authentic emotion in this scene – communicating the very resignation that Yeo-jin must be feeling inside, beneath a facade that might read as comical in any other context.

“Is there a chance you won’t be okay?” is, in fact, the last thing that Si-mok says in this whole scene, despite quite a few more lines of dialogue from Yeo-jin. The way he looks at her for the rest of the scene, though, is charged with meaning. It seems to say: ‘I don’t really believe that you’re okay, but I’m going to give you space because I can tell you don’t really want to talk right now.’ It’s not as if Yeo-jin hasn’t confided in him before – their phone call in 1x15 was especially intimate – so it’s not that Si-mok is incapable of listening to her. Still, he respects her choice to deflect, and continues to observe her closely while ignoring the pajeon, even leaning forward right at the end of the scene. This very overt concentration on her is something we’ve never really seen from Si-mok before; even in the rooftop scene in 2x06, which is probably the most loaded scene they share after this one, they’re standing beside each other and rarely make eye contact. Here, his focus on Yeo-jin is palpable.

As much as this scene felt heartbreaking to me (thanks breathy sad wooooo music), it actually left me with a lot of optimism for the development of their relationship in the future. Lee Soo-yeon has said that she has enough material for five seasons of the show, and while I’m not so sure we’ll get as many seasons as that, it feels like she’s pushed Si-mok and Yeo-jin out of their comfortable friendship – planting the question, “is there a chance we won’t be okay?” I wonder if we’ll see something quite different in the third season (which is apparently in discussion!), which surely won’t see them on opposing sides again.

I’ve been burned by enough ships that can potentially be read as ‘platonic’ to know that I shouldn’t hope for any overt romance, but Si-mok is such a unique character and has such a unique connection with Yeo-jin that I’m hopeful that their relationship could be deepened with nuance, even if it doesn’t become romantic in ‘recognisable’ ways. (I have other thoughts on his asexuality/aromanticism that I won’t get into here.) It’s precisely because their connection is built on mutual trust, respect, and understanding that it remains so compelling, and I think this scene promises growth, and some resolution, whenever we see them next.

[hayscodings]

Been thinking abt this ask for a bit, what is your take on Penelope's sexuality?

whew, okay, this is something feel very strongly about so i apologize for the length in advance.

there tend to be two camps of people in this fandom when it comes to interpreting penelope’s sexuality and they are: (1) antis/cheryl stans who consider her to be heterosexual because they refuse to entertain the idea that she might be gay since they hate her; (2) people who have never given her character a second thought but listened to her red dahlia monologue and missed the entire point of it decided it somehow made her a lesbian.

then there are the handful of people in the parentdale fandom who know neither of those interpretations have any merit. because here’s the thing: penelope has canonically been shown to be attracted to men, and at the very least it has been implied that she’s attracted to women.

so let’s start with the former: her attraction to men.

if we think about her timeline in chronological order, the first thing we have to take into consideration is the fact that she slept around quite a bit in high school. see: “oh, it’s not that different from when i was younger and i had my pick of gentleman callers lining up every evening”. it’s important to note she says this very fondly, to the point where she does that whole looking-up-dreamily bit that one does when reminiscing about the past. keep in mind that at the time she was already aware that she was promised to clifford, and that the blossoms surely wouldn’t have approved of her going around with other boys.

there is no reason to believe she was hooking up with these guys for any reason other than she enjoyed it. she obviously wasn’t encouraged to date by her parents, she didn’t have anyone to impress considering the fact wasn’t popular, and it’s not like she could have gone around advertising these encounters anyway since she would have had to have kept them a secret from the blossoms. so that throws out any “she was pressured into it”/“she was trying to convince other people that she was attracted to boys” possibilities. the fact that she happily recalled these memories to cheryl alone casts serious doubt on them.

why excitedly bring up the memories at all if they were just reminders of a time when she was suffering as a result of heteronormativity? it’s not like cheryl encouraged her to share, or gave any indication that she would be impressed by such a revelation. penelope has nothing to prove to cheryl, anyway. the most logical conclusion is the one you get when you take her words at face value: she experiences attraction to the opposite sex and had fun exploring her sexuality in her youth. we’ll circle back to this later when we get to the subject of how comfortable she feels with sex.

so after high school she marries clifford. it’s a forced marriage, and one neither she nor clifford consented to-- but it’s what their parents groomed them for since they were children and something they’ve known was inevitably coming for years. now, for the purposes of keeping this as short as possible and not veering off topic, i won’t get into a whole analysis of their dynamic. all i will say is this: they were depicted as being entirely comfortable with one another in season one. they may not have come across as passionate or romantic, but you could tell they were partners (always on the same page, experts at nonverbal communication, trusting of each other, etc.). and what’s more than that, is they were constantly initiating affectionate gestures with each other: linking arms, putting their hands on each other, standing close together, hugging, etc.

their marriage may have been forced, but penelope genuinely cared for and felt safe with clifford. even after he died, there was a lingering attachment to him. nevertheless, that doesn’t make their situation any less traumatic. no matter how comfortable they felt emotionally with one another, the fact that they were groomed to be life companions and eventually forced to have sex with one another and raise children together, remains a very traumatic experience regardless. and we know penelope is still traumatized by it because she’s talked about it time and time again. if she was only attracted to women, that would add a whole other layer of trauma to the situation.

because if she was only attracted to women, she wouldn’t want clifford anywhere near here irrespective of the fact that they were raised together. hell, she couldn’t even close her eyes and pretend he was someone else while they were having sex. and she certainly couldn’t attempt to get to a place where the sex wasn't so awkward and uncomfortable. every encounter would be an unpleasant, pained, and traumatic experience. to the point where i can’t imagine she would want to be the recipient of any physical contact from clifford, much less frequently initiate it. in this scenario, it wouldn’t just be clifford’s relation to her that she would have to cope with, it would also be the fact that he was a man. even just going through the motions of being his wife would make her feel isolated and miserable.

which brings us to her job in s2 and probably the most solid indication of her attraction to men. in s2, we learn that the blossoms are broke and penelope is faced with the reality that she needs to get a job. let’s start with what she does to pay for the christmas tree cheryl bought: sleep with vic. was it necessary for her to do this? was it the only avenue she could have possibly taken to come up with some money in those circumstances? of course not. christmas trees aren’t that expensive-- she could have easily pawned any number of valuables in thistle house to come up with the money. hell, she could have chosen some cheryl owned to teach her a lesson. or something nana owned. or she could have simply...returned the tree. there was absolutely no reason for her to decide to sleep with vic if it wasn't something she was perfectly comfortable doing. why would this be her go-to solution if she was only attracted to women? her options were plenty.

then after this, what does she do? gets a job as a courtesan. which she delightedly describes as “providing comfort and companionship to the lonely men of riverdale”. and, as cheryl notes in that scene, she seems quite proud of herself for it. i have a very hard time reconciling how any of this would make sense if she wasn’t attracted to men. you can’t argue she was solely in it for the money, because when cheryl offers her an out via the second nick st. clair check, penelope declines to quit. in her own words, “oh, but cheryl, why would i stop, when i’m having such a good time?”. what, pray tell, would be the good time she was having if she didn’t enjoy the sex she was having with these men? keep in mind that, at this point, she wasn’t even doing any dominatrix work. at this point it was very much implied that she was focused on providing the “girlfriend experience”. so you can’t even argue that her enjoyment came from feeling empowered by dominating these men or whatever.

furthermore, not only did she hand-pick this very specific job herself and refuse to quit it when strongly encouraged and given the chance to, but she also had other options, same as she did in the situation with the christmas tree. she could have turned to hiram like cheryl suggested, she could have worked at pop’s like hermione did in s1, talked to weatherbee about a position like alice, looked at the listings in the register, or asked around about any job opportunities at highsmith, you know, the very prestigious college she graduated from and donated tons of money to and apparently sat on the board of?? the point is, penelope didn’t have to turn to sex work to pay her bills if she didn’t want to. and even if she had, she could have stoped the second cheryl handed her that check and begged her to. penelope went into sex work because she wanted to. and she's vehemently voiced how much she enjoys her work continuously and consistently since then.

then there’s her relationship with hal. this is the second strongest indication of her attraction to men. why? because she genuinely had feelings for him. when cheryl approaches her about the affair, assuming it to be a transactional encounter, penelope explains that, “it’s different, with hal. he’s not a client. it’s real”. if you pay attention to her facial expressions in that scene, you can see that there’s a certain softness and vulnerability to them. the way she delivers the line is especially vulnerable-- and penelope so rarely shows vulnerability in front of cheryl, so that alone says a lot. she then asks cheryl to “please stay out of it”. now, we don’t get to see much if any of penelope’s relationship with hal, but the bits we do see let us know that it’s not just some salacious affair. at least, not on penelope’s end. after cheryl drives hal away penelope is visibly upset and accuses cheryl of driving away her “one decent chance at a better life”.

we don’t need to unpack all of that, because penelope feeling like she can’t be happy without a man is an entirely separate issue, but the point is: she sincerely cared for hal and saw herself being happy with him. when cheryl dismissively fires back with “if that’s your idea of love”, penelope defensively snaps, “what would you know about it?”. that’s not the reaction she would have had if she had simply pursued hal because she was bored or wanted to cause some drama or was merely trying to mess with alice or something. you can’t say she was with him for money either, because: (1) she already had money at this point, (2) hal isn’t wealthy, and (3) she wasn’t getting any money out of him anyway since he wasn't a client. and if she was just looking to get hitched and settle down with a man for money, she certainly wouldn’t have gone after a married, middle class one with kids. that would not be a sensible strategy.

it’s also worth noting that nat stated in several interviews back in s2, while the affair plot was airing, that she believed penelope had real feelings for hal. she explained that penelope was lonely and, thus, “looking for a bit of warmth from somewhere”. so that’s how she was playing it.

then there's the maple club. just in case it hadn’t been established enough how much she adores her job, she had to go ahead and open a kink club. there really isn’t any need to drive the ‘she actively enjoys sex work’ point further, as i feel it’s been made explicitly clear already, but i do want to make one note, and that is that penelope was still taking clients while she was a madame. we saw her holding props in like, every other scene, and she was shown wearing nightgowns. so if anyone, for whatever weird reason, assumed she only opened the maple club so she wouldn't have to participate in the sexual encounters herself, i am here to burst your bubble.

and finally, we come to the scene that launched a thousand bad takes: the scene of the red dahlia monologue. in that scene, penelope utters the infamous words, “not people betty, men. they are the true poison”. in context, it is very clear that she is speaking from her many personal experiences with shitty men, seeing as before she delivers that quote she categorically details some of the traumas she has endured at their hands-- the murder of her son by her husband being one of them. that’s all that quote is about! the pain and betrayal she’s experienced from shitty, morally reprehensible men! it has nothing to do with her sexuality, and to make it so is to ignore and take away from the seriousness of her trauma. nothing frustrates me more than to see people misinterpret that scene and reduce it to some man-hating lesbian narrative bullshit. y’all can save that nonsense for cheryl.

also, the fact people were so quick to ignore penelope’s attraction to men in favor of calling her a lesbian feels very biphobic to me, and i will not have it. rip to everyone who thinks being bisexual is just Gay Lite™ and refuses to even consider the possibility when a character is indicated to be attracted to the same sex, but i’m different. not that that scene was any indication that penelope is attracted to women-- it was not. mistrusting men and being disgusted by their actions does not a lesbian make. that is literally just being a woman. but anyway.

the last thing i want to say before i get into penelope’s attraction to women is that there is no way she would be so comfortable with sex, or so confident expressing her sexuality, if she was a lesbian whose sole experiences with sex had consisted of meaningless high school hookups and over two decades of forced marriage to her brother. that just doesn’t add up. if she were a lesbian, s2 would have gone very differently. clifford’s death would have been liberating in more ways than one, and the last thing she would have done after finally being free of having to endure a heterosexual relationship is sleep with a random man to pay for a christmas tree, get into sex work, and pursue a relationship with a man. and go on to open a kink club. that just doesn't make sense.

so onto her attraction to women. this doesn’t require as much of an explanation, so i’ll try to keep it short and sweet since i’ve already written an obscene amount of words trying to answer this ask. i honestly can’t remember when i first started headcanoning penelope as bisexual, but i know i had been entertaining the idea of her being attracted to women long before the flashback episode aired. i’m not sure what it was, the ~vibe was just there. when i first got into the fandom i followed several people who shipped penelope and alice, and, while i didn’t care for the ship at the time (embarrassing, i know), the idea of penelope being interested in women felt very natural to me. maybe it was the violently sapphic schoolteacher/librarian aesthetic she had going on in s1, maybe it was the fact that her whole energy screamed ‘repressed’ to me. actually, i do think the latter is what initially got me wondering.

and then nat starting theorizing that penelope was attracted to women and that was very validating. i was briefly hopeful they would go in that direction in s2, but of course it never happened.

but then the flashback episode aired and bitch ?????? that one scene with sierra was gay as hell. i’m still very confused about why they played up penelope’s crush on sierra only to never go anywhere with it in present time, but  i’ll take my crumbs. all of the looks penelope gave sierra in that episode, the way she ignored her vandalizing the bathroom mirror while she grilled alice and hermione for their hall passes, the way she set up a quest just to get everyone out of the room so she could be alone with sierra, the subtle scoot towards her and “looks like it’s just you and me for a little bit, sierra” line with that dorky ass grin, the linking arms and smiling at her in the hallway??? there was nothing heterosexual about that.

and then there was the random, low-key coding in 3x12 where we learned that penelope graduated from a college named after patricia highsmith, referenced the price of salt, and used the word sapphic.....i still have questions about all of this. are we just supposed to believe she reads lesbian novels for science? and casually references them in conversation? where did she learn the word sapphic? if i asked my mom what the word sapphic meant she would have no idea what is was talking about. some food for thought.

also....her scenes with alice. that’s all i have to say.

i’m probably missing some things here, but that’s the bulk of it. i apologize for letting this get away from me...i just have a lot of thoughts lmao. anyway, i hope this was at least somewhat insightful and coherent. i appreciate the ask!

[penniesforthestorm]

“Never trust a man with three first names”: ‘Justified’ Season Two, Episode One

That’s right, I’m still doing these! Before we start, a few procedural notes-- the premiere and finale episodes will be given the typical essay-style treatment, the rest recapped 3 at a time, according to whatever I jot down while watching. This particular season has a relatively self-contained narrative, so if you were only going to watch one season of Justified, this might be the one to choose-- I like S1 a lot, obviously, but after the pilot, it takes a rocky road for a few episodes (though the final six are pretty uniformly riveting). My thoughts on S1 can be found by clicking through (pilot, Episodes 2-5, Episodes 6-9, Episodes 10-12, finale), or you can search the tag ‘#did you miss my heart on purpose’ on my blog. Read on for my thoughts on S2:E1: “The Moonshine War”.

This episode begins with a refresher, taking us back to the chaos of “Bulletville” (S1:E13)-- Deputy U.S. Marshal Raylan Givens (Timothy Olyphant) is taking shelter in a cabin somewhere in Harlan County, Kentucky, with his former coal-mining compatriot Boyd Crowder (Walton Goggins), and Boyd’s sister-in-law Ava Crowder (Joelle Carter), facing fire from two emissaries of the Miami drug cartel, Ernesto and Pilar, who want revenge on Raylan for killing one of their own. Raylan manages to give Ava and Boyd the chance to escape, and shoots Ernesto. Pilar flees, and Boyd offers to track her down, making another claim to the old friendship between himself and Raylan, who allows him a head start.

We pick up with Raylan’s boss, Deputy Chief Art Mullen (Nick Searcy), and his team in the woods, questioning Ava. He asks, “Where’s your boyfriend?”, referencing Raylan and Ava’s brief affair (which compromised the initial investigation into Boyd Crowder’s criminal activities), and Ava replies, “Which one?” I think, in the moment, this is just Ava being flip, but in light of later developments, it caught my attention. After that, Boyd and Raylan catch up to Pilar, and Raylan delivers her (quite literally) to the home of Miami cartel boss Gio. Raylan’s former boss, Deputy Chief Grant, arrives, and the business between them is concluded with a pointedly off-the-record conversation. Following that, Grant tells Raylan that he’s welcome to return to Miami-- in fact, that Art Mullen wants him gone. Raylan, typically, takes this with the utmost maturity and declares that he just wants to go home (i.e., his motel room in Lexington) and go to bed. This is one of numerous examples of my favorite bit of characterization: Raylan Gives is handsome, funny, good at his job, and generally a good guy to have in a crisis. He’s also kind of an asshole. There’s the hoary stereotype of “yeah, but he gets results!”-- the renegade cop who is nevertheless always right. Raylan Givens is a great illustration of what a pain in the ass someone like that is for his colleagues.

One of those colleagues, Deputy Rachel Brooks (Erica Tazel), asks for Raylan’s assistance tracking down a sex offender who’s been spotted in Harlan: Jimmy Earl Dean. On the way, Rachel confesses that, as an African-American woman, she feels uncomfortable around the local white population, and since Raylan is a native Harlanite, she thought having him along would smooth the way. Rachel, from what we’ve seen so far, is tough and competent-- she’s not asking for a babysitter, she’s just being cautious. She can’t afford to be as reckless and nonchalant as Raylan is, and I like that the show calls our attention to that. And, likewise, that Raylan helps out.

It turns out that Dean is currently in the employ of the Bennett family-- matriarch Mags (Margo Martindale), and her “tads” Doyle, Dickie, and Coover--who run what appears to be a sizable marijuana operation. Dean attempts to menace a young girl, Loretta McCready (Kaitlyn Dever), whose father Walt (Chris Mulkey) has been growing his own bud on Bennett land, but Loretta’s a tough customer, and she’s able to get away. At home, Walt tells her that he called the tipline set up to catch Dean. Loretta realizes that this was a mistake-- the Bennetts won’t appreciate outside attention being brought to their business-- and goes to apologize to Mags.

The Bennett family is about as colorful a batch of characters as we’ve seen on the show so far. Mags seems every inch the jolly Southern lady, and her concern for Loretta is genuine, but her frank conversation with Raylan, when he and Rachel arrive at her general store, establishes her as a shrewd operator. She might ply him with her famous “apple pie” moonshine*, and warmly boast of his high-school athletic prowess to a seemingly starstruck Loretta, but she knows what his presence means. Likewise Doyle, who we’ve just seen interrogating Walt at the McCready home-- Doyle jokes with Raylan and demurs that he’s ‘not involved with the family business’, but even if we hadn’t seen evidence to the contrary, we’d know from the way he and Raylan size each other up that something’s fishy.

Which brings us to Coover (Brad William Henke) and Dickie (Jeremy Davies). Coover doesn’t appear to have much going on upstairs, but his sheer size and dull aura of menace mark him instantly as trouble. Dickie, on the other hand, is scrawny and frail-seeming, with a bad limp and a soft voice, but he quickly takes control of the situation when Raylan and Rachel arrive for a chat. It’s heavily implied that he and Raylan share a history, and, retrospectively, knowing what that history is makes their first encounter even wilder to watch-- Davies’ line readings are so thrillingly weird, it’s no wonder both Raylan and Rachel seem unsure what to do.

Fortunately, their immediate problem proves easier to dispel: Dean kidnaps Loretta, but State Trooper Tom Bergen (in what I believe is his first major appearance) alerts Raylan, and they catch up to him at a gas station. Raylan, in an inspired bit of improv, squirts Dean with gasoline, and then warns him that if he fires his gun, he’ll explode. (I’m not sure this would work, but neither is Raylan, so I’ll accept it). Raylan gallantly rescues Loretta, and Dean is taken away in cuffs.

Unfortunately, Loretta’s prediction about Mags’ ire proves true: as punishment for trying to poach Mags’ business and for telling the authorities about Dean instead of going to Mags directly, Walt gets a glass of poisoned “apple pie”. This scene is haunting-- the fear and surprise on Walt’s face, the way Mags’ voice never rises above a gentle croon as she scolds him, the way Dickie holds Walt’s hand and strokes his head as the poison takes effect. In the first season, Justified’s setting seemed a little haphazardly chosen-- the action could have taken place in any number of out-of-the-way places. But this scene, and the episode around it, show us that this season will be taking full advantage of the Appalachia featured in Leonard’s novels and stories. (Despite being filmed in Southern California. No, this will not be the last time I complain about that.)

*I have two notes about the moonshine: 1) Rachel refusing a sample, while it makes sense for her by-the-book character, is, in my opinion, a grave mistake of politesse. 2) My great-uncle, who ran a small, but successful cattle ranch in north-central Montana for most of his life, was famous for giving away jars of something we all called “cherry-bounce”. I’m a little sorry I never had the chance to try any. (He did teach me how to dance the polka, though. He was a cool guy.)

[lesbianrobin]

Your thoughts on the weird ass shower scene with B*lly and Steve. Like...B*ly? What the hell? Why are you obsessed with Steve? Especially since Steve had like...zero interest in him and saw him as a pest. Is that what the Duffers think bullying is?

LITERALLY... okay, I have two explanations for that scene.

1. The Duffers have some unresolved sexuality issues from when they were teenagers that they're trying to work out through their sci-fi show. They're having a hard time.

2. Billy is abused by his father, made to feel powerless, and as such feels an intense desire for power and control himself. He looks for this control wherever he can find it, through terrorizing Max and through gaining popularity at school. It's implied that after S1, the whole "King Steve" thing was over and Steve's become a bit of an outcast or at least is bullied by some of the other popular kids (likely as a result of him rejecting all of his old friends and showing up to school with a black eye courtesy of Jonathan Byers). Tommy is shown giving Steve shit in S2 alongside Billy. We can assume it went like this: Billy shows up in town, joins the basketball team, Tommy tells him all about how that loser Steve Harrington used to rule the school until he became a pussy, and boom. Billy identifies Steve as an ideal target. If he can prove that he's bested the former "king" of the school, then he proves his own superiority, gains power and control. He knows that Steve won't fight back (at least not while they're at school), and he likes that, and that's why he continually goes after Steve. Because he can.

The shower scene is still fucking weird. All I can say is that Billy and Tommy must have deliberately showered next to Steve with the intent of harassing him, and Billy's just... a fucking freak?? I mean, Steve IS insanely pretty, so calling him pretty boy is fair, but while they're both naked and standing, like less than a foot apart? It's a bit much, dude. Kinda crosses the bullying line and puts you in sexual harassment territory.

Anyways, the Duffers don't understand what bullying is and Billy is happily dead :)

[killian-whump]

Assuming there's a sequel, what do you think will JJ's role be? Do you think he'll make a hollywood healing and return as a nefarious outlaw (with a limp) or a jaded washout who lost both his legs? Or maybe he's already dead and only appears in flashbacks? What do you think has a higher chance of happening?

This is a really good question...

As I said in another post, I’m not entirely sure that Maddie Hawkins has another story in her - that includes JJ. I think it’s pretty clear that she’s done with him, and won’t be giving him a second chance.

And, besides, I think a retread with these same two characters might be a bit dull, no? So I feel like if they DO bring these two both back again, it’ll have to be something along the lines of what @gingerchangeling was proposing, where it’s years later, JJ’s as healed as he can be (obviously, with a limp or even a missing leg), and he hunts down Maddie for his own revenge... but there’s a kid. And it’s obviously his kid. And what do now??

Because we all know that Hollywood loves a good “bad guy changes his ways entirely for the kid he never even knew he had (or wanted)” storylines. I mean, her future headcanon is just that good. I don’t think they could possibly come up with anything better IF they want to bring BOTH characters back again.

But they might NOT bring them both back again. Dolly never said anything about bringing Maddie back for a Season 2 - only JJ. And, to be honest, JJ’s likely got a lot more tales in his life that could be told. It’s implied that he’s pulled the same trick he pulled on Maddie with plenty of other women. He’s obviously been at this for quite some time, and has many outlaw adventures they could show in flashback form.

We could also see them explore Deke’s story and tell about what happened between HIM and JJ in the past - and show us the tragic death of his wife. Given she died in a fire and not from a bullet wound, I don’t think JJ meant to kill her - and it’s obvious he’s not as cavalier about killing innocent women as he is innocent men. It could even be that this accidental killing of a young pregnant woman is what pushed JJ into being the murderer he is in S1′s story - sort of a “I’ve already done the WORST possible thing, so what does it matter?” mentality. That would likely make for a good story, as well - and I certainly wouldn’t mind seeing more of David Denman’s bounty hunter.

Speaking of which, they could just show us the adventures of Deke and JJ on the road back to nearest town and the Sheriff’s station, and it could just be an hour’s worth of quality whump with Deke torturing him the whole damn way. I mean, we all know that’s got MY vote, but I have this weird feeling it might not be what Dolly would go for ;) But then again, who knows? I mean, she DID say that they wanted to see JJ suffer a little - and man, did he ever suffer at the end there. Maybe Dolly’s one of us and we just never knew it? XD

Actually, there IS another way they could bring JJ and Maddie back together again - if he heals and escapes, she could even team up with Deke to try to recapture him, and we could see his hijinks on the run as he tries to get lovely young ladies to hide his limping ass from the law, lol.

Although we have to remember that if there IS a Season 2, it’s likely to follow the same format that Season 1 did, and each episode will be based on one of Dolly’s hit songs. So if we DO see JJ again, it’s very likely we won’t be seeing anything that will tie directly into this episode, so much as it would be JJ filling the role of “nefarious outlaw” or “double-crossing lover” in an entirely separate story based on an altogether different song. In which case, it likely would be from JJ’s days before meeting Maddie, because that would be easier to explain than having to go into HOW he escaped from Deke AND how he healed from those injuries Maddie gave him.

Or maybe they’ll scrap S2 entirely and Dolly will just write an entire album of new songs inspired by Colin, and we’ll get a season of hour-long music videos FOR that album, with Colin playing the lead in every one!!! :D

HEY. Don’t you all start telling me that’s not going to happen. I don’t come on your blog and crush your crazy dreams, do I??? XD