#I have two versions of this written

[ennard-is-near]

>Be me

> Just moved to neighborhood in Hurricane, Utah

>At a welcome party thrown for me

>Party is fun

>party suddenly stops and neighbors say they have to tell me something

>what?

>they give me a heads up about Michael.

>I ask what the deal is

>he’s not dangerous, you’ll know him when you see him. He’s just Michael.

>confused.png

>Few months later

>see a literal decaying body walking down the street.

>it’s just Michael.

[annasofthe11thdimension]

Alright, so this is basically...an art dump for all the pics i drew when i was trying to draft the ending i wanted my Odile looping Au 'Like a Wheel Ever Turning' which...is not even SLIGHTLY how this fic is going to end now, but while figuring that out i still like draw all this and had to do SOMETHING with it.

So figured I'd post it and be like 'hey! fun Odile looping act 5 boss fight vibes not connected to anything else!' since like...that basic IS what they are at this point lol.

The one cool idea i loved that i think is now FIRMLY ditched is the act 5 boss fight starts when Odile uses wish craft to splinter herself into two halves.

The 'old/current' her that is meant to be her coldly logical side, and a younger 'copy' version, which is meant to be the childish irrational side...that is what's stopping her just shutting down the time loop because she can't figure out how to be happy with her friends leaving.

I mean, if you murder the part of you that WANTS the wish to come true, that's basically a 'get out of time loop free card' right? Right! Totally sound logic!

Yes the 'young' version of her firmly believes that she's real, and also also got memories going up to about age 21, and also that she ought to be in Ka Bue not HERE among these french weirdos.

Also yes again, a 'young' Odile is EXACTLY as unhinged about this as you'd expect a 21 year old to be upon finding out that apparently the 'real' her think murdering her is the correct solution to this problem!

The shift of the fight was meant to have the inverse 'colors' shift from one version to the other by the end, wrapping up with the point where the 'original' Odile is forced to have a heart to heart with the personification of her perceived 'worst' qualities.

Pretty sure the vibes for this ending was a lot more focused on the resolution of having deeply complex feeling about EXPRESSING emotion directly to other people. That along with a side helping of how isolating it is to be perceived as a 'real' adult such that you can't be weak enough to ask anyone for help. Because really if you can't even be that then why are you any different then when you were irritating mess of a youth?

Not saying any of that isn't still present in the story, but like...there is a LOT of other stuff going on, and those themes are now linked into many other ones too, and that's not even TOUCHING on how Loop's been...somewhat complicating my redrafting lol.

...Also I might have drawn/plotted this version before i knew about two-hats lol. THAT also is a factor.

Anyway! Still liked all of these enough to want to do SOMETHING with them, and figured this worked, so i could like map out my thoughts on them, even if i never got to write this.

[cheshiresense]

In the Ichigo & Starrk time travel 'verse I'm just picturing Ichigo registering for the academy like "I'm Ichigo. From the rukongai. No last name" and then kaien popping up like "he's a Shiba!!!" And the people there looking at each other and whispering like "ohhhh he wants to be independent and not rely on his family name!! How sweet!!!" and then Ichigo just sighing. XD

LMAO with his luck, this is exactly what happened.

Meanwhile Starrk's over there in the corner filling out his application forms and thanking every god he wants to beat up I find it rly funny to imagine he has this passive-aggressive grudge against Mimihagi for a variety of reasons that he in no way, shape, or form resembles any of the five big clans. But it would also be really funny to me if people at the admin desk looked at him, and then looked twice, and then looked thrice, and then be like "You sure you're not a Kyouraku?", because let's face it, he really does look a bit like Shunsui. Like it's not immediately noticeable the way Ichigo is with the Shibas, but if Starrk and Shunsui showed up and claimed they were blood-related, probably no one would doubt it.

And at any other time, people might not think of the possibility, but there just so happens to be a Kyouraku relative - even if she's just a bastard - attending the Academy at the moment, and all the teachers and staff are always made aware of any clan children in their halls. The Kyouraku Family isn't one of the Big Five, they're a Lower Noble House and also not a Shinigami-oriented clan, more politicians and scholars and even artisans than soldiers, but they're old and prestigious and the highest-ranked out of all the Lower Noble Houses, so the Academy paid attention when one of them decided to become a Shinigami for the first time in centuries. She ends up being a disappointment with none of her cousin's talent or charisma or wit, and the Eighth Division captain hasn't pushed hard enough for them to really show her any favouritism, but they've still kept an eye on her to make sure the bullying doesn't get too bad and she doesn't fall too far behind, lest they bring her family's wrath down on them, because it doesn't seem like most of her clan cares about her but who even knows with nobles and the things that set off their sense of pride.

But that means Starrk's looks immediately ring a few bells when he shows up. Of course, he denies it; unlike Ichigo, he really doesn't have any relation to the Kyourakus, although even back in their own timeline, a few people had made that mistake when they didn't know he was a Hollow, had thought he was some Kyouraku relative Shunsui had dug up to help out, because not everyone who goes through the Academy becomes a Shinigami, sometimes they're clan members who go home afterwards to guard the family and continue their own training there, plus with Starrk's strength and skill set - 1) powerful, and 2) sharing quite a few similarities to Shunsui's so it's not even just their looks - it had actually been more far-fetched to a lot of people for him to have just been some random nobody than to be a member of this powerful clan.

But no, no blood relation, just a quirk of fate. Still, the Academy notes his name down and makes sure to keep more tabs on his progress than they would an average Rukongai student. And alright, the teachers can be overly biased or overly indifferent depending on the student but they're not actually stupid, and yeah, for a while, it's Shiba Ichigo who takes up all their attention because Ichigo blows all the other students out of the water and skyrockets straight up to a category of genius nobody's ever seen before, even more impressive than his lieutenant cousin and slated to graduate in a year. It helps (Ichigo: "No it fucking doesn't.") that Kaien is constantly buzzing around making sure Ichigo is treated like a prince befitting of a Great Noble House so no one dares make his life difficult. Well, Koyonagi would probably dare, but fortunately (Ichigo: "No it fucking isn't."), he likes Ichigo enough to not hamper him in any way, even if he does come up with all sorts of annoying tasks to heap on Ichigo "for extra credit" (Ichigo: "For his own entertainment.").

Starrk in the meantime is about as entertained by all this as a passively suicidal grieving widow war vet can get, and he makes no effort to hide it every time Ichigo comes to hide in his room and bitch to him about it, because really, it's partly the kid's own fault for not knowing subtlety even if it shoots him in the face. It's harmless enough anyway so long as Ichigo doesn't stand out more than he already has, so Starrk doesn't see a problem with kicking back and enjoying the show. Right up until the novelty of a prodigal Shiba starts wearing off on the Academy teachers because it's not like they've never seen geniuses before even if this one is a little more unique. So the turn their attentions elsewhere and suddenly realize that the guy who might be another bastard Kyouraku and spends more time asleep than awake have some really interesting grades when they look at them altogether at the end of term. Average in everything—so average it's suspicious, meaning Starrk either has the weirdest luck in the universe or he's literally calculating everything he's doing in class to make sure he always falls within a very specific range. Koyonagi had already noticed of course, and he's checked all the boxes that would jump Starrk up to sixth year starting next semester, but the other teachers catch on quickly enough too, and then they also start taking a fourth and fifth look at him.

Now it's Ichigo's turn to be Very Amused. Shouldn't have laughed at his suffering, huh? Karma's a real bitch.

Starrk is Not Amused, but also he can be just as stubborn as Ichigo, even if it's in the opposite direction. Ichigo very stubbornly isn't willing to be held back, he can do more as an official member of the Gotei, and slogging through six years at the Academy is just wasting time. If he has to graduate in the least amount of time possible and thereby be seen as a genius anyway, he might as well put himself out of his misery early and get that out of the way right off the bat. At least then, by the time he graduates, some of the shine will have hopefully worn off for the masses after they've gotten used to him.

Likewise, Starrk very stubbornly isn't willing to be anyone's show pony. Ichigo isn't either, but Ichigo's solution is to just ignore the fact that he sort of is, for the sake of exempting himself from fatal boredom. In contrast, Starrk 100% doesn't mind going to lectures when nobody can stop him from sleeping through them anyway, and he always turns in his homework on time and never fails his tests either so the teachers can't complain. The training sessions in the practical courses are more annoying but he doesn't usually have to do much there either, especially once he's jumped to the sixth-year courses where the teachers teach less and more often pair them up for spars or take them to fight very low-level Hollows they've captured instead. And since he's been noticed now, he doesn't care about maintaining average scores anymore because once you finish your spar or kill your assigned Hollow, you get to sit around and do nothing until everybody else is done, which suits Starrk just fine.

Koyonagi calls him to his office a couple more times, but as Starrk expects, the man grows increasingly bored with Starrk's lack of a reaction to anything he says. He even pokes at him from the "bastard Kyouraku abandoned in the Rukongai" angle, which almost makes Starrk laugh, because from a hierarchical standpoint, and to all these proudly intolerant Shinigami, even an unwanted bastard disowned from a noble clan would already be several steps up from what Starrk actually is.

There's no substance to this insult anyway, because Starrk really isn't a Kyouraku, and what does a Hollow care about noble blood or lack thereof? Koyonagi takes his shot in the dark and misses, and maybe he sees the amused pity that even Starrk can't quite hide this time, because the man's own eyes go flat with displeasure, for once probably aimed more at himself than Starrk because men like Koyonagi don't like making such crude mistakes. He dismisses Starrk and never calls him back again, although Starrk thinks that might have something to do with Ichigo, who hasn't been best pleased for a while now about Koyonagi harassing Starrk in a way that's completely different from his own harassment, and everyone knows - or will soon discover once again - that it's all fun and games until Ichigo puts his foot down. Either way, Koyonagi gives up trying to make Starrk prey, and Starrk chats his way past the Academy chefs one evening to make a spicy mentaiko udon just for Ichigo as thanks.

So in the end, they both think that's the end of that. Ichigo still has his fair share of secret admirers and envious onlookers and background sycophants looking for an easy ride into the Gotei, but his prickly disposition wards off most of them, and Starrk's flat, indifferent gaze from over Ichigo's shoulder - like he could bury you tomorrow and forget you ever existed the moment it's done - scares away the rest.

And Starrk is likewise acknowledged as another genius, but he's so unmotivated about doing anything with that genius that most of the other students don't really notice, and it's hard for even the teachers to make a big deal out of it. Eventually, they stop trying to galvanize him into displaying more of his abilities, if only to catch a squad's attention, and just let him do what he wants. Geniuses, what can you do? Each one is quirkier than the last.

So that's the end of that.

Except-

Quietly, in the background, possibly Koyonagi's roundabout way of revenge, possibly just the Shinigami's inexplicable attachment to all things bloodlines and pedigrees, the Academy comes to the enlightened conclusion that Starrk must be a Kyouraku. Maybe a branch member who doesn't want attention - seems very Starrk - or he really had been disowned, or there's some other circumstance they're not aware of, but nobility is full of drama so it could be anything. Whatever it is, they collectively agree that this assumption must be true, and over the course of the passing months, it becomes an acknowledged fact that nobody really talks about.

Starrk is lazy, but he's not unpleasant to be around. Who doesn't like an intelligent student? He's also polite, always patient when teachers flag him down for yet another chat despite refusing all opportunities to show off a little, and the Academy chefs adore him because that man can cook - his future wife will be very lucky - and he always has time to trade recipes with them. And on the occasions where some of the youngest students who'd shared classes with Starrk back in the first term approach him with questions on one subject or another, Starrk would frown and sigh a lot, but he would also sit down and answer them one by one, indulgent in a way people wouldn't expect just by looking at him.

If he really is a disowned bastard, well, privately they think that's the Kyourakus' loss, but it also means that it's probably a pretty sensitive topic to Starrk, as these things tend to be, so it's better not to throw it in his face. They're not Koyonagi after all.

(They don't understand for quite a while to come why Koyonagi always rolls his eyes and leaves the room whenever they talk about it amongst themselves.)

To be fair, they really can't be wholly blamed for coming to this conclusion despite all lack of solid evidence and testimony.

First of all, Starrk really does share a physical likeness with the Gotei 13's very well-known Eighth Division captain. Their builds are different - one broad, the other lean - but they're both tall with high cheekbones, and they share the same colouring, grey eyes and brown hair and light skin. In that, Fujiwara's the exact same way, and she is a Kyouraku branch member. It's just even more obvious with Starrk because he's male, plus a few of the Academy teachers have been around long enough to still remember Shunsui before he'd grown his hair out, and Starrk resembles that version even more.

Secondly, and this was less conspicuous, but the teachers had even dug out some of Kyouraku Shunsui's very old, very dusty papers from his Academy days for comparison.

In terms of personality, the two are almost complete opposites. One flamboyant, the other solemn. One outgoing, the other reserved. One a flirt who socializes enough for ten, the other would rather stay in bed and sleep the day away. It's just that Starrk is surprisingly good with people when he tries, and some can recall that even Kyouraku Shunsui had had his moments of quiet contemplation, which only puts more stock in the familial tie theory.

But it's in terms of mindset that really drives it home for them, because when it comes to the way they look at the world, they sync up to an almost frightening degree.

They unearth the captain's old papers from the library archives, and it's been years, centuries, but Shinigami don't tend to change much. If anything, Kyouraku Shunsui’s essays read more immaturely than Starrk’s, but the foundational reasoning from both men is solid.

They review them, and then they look at Starrk's again, and Starrk might leave questions blank on homework and tests but he's never skimped on answers when he does turn them in, and a lot of those questions are essay topics - similar enough even between Kyouraku Shunsui's generation and the current one to make a fair comparison - about hypothetical situations on the battlefield, in a fight, if you meet an ally, if you meet an enemy, if you have to choose who to save, if you have to choose who to let die—what would you do?

The respective responses are evidently written by two different people, well-debated and well-presented, but at the same time, even hundreds of years apart, their opinions and strategies and perspectives and choices on almost every single topic are near-interchangeable.

(They can't have known that Starrk had spent seven years at Shunsui's side, watching him lead, watching him fight, watching him wage a war and command his soldiers and protect his people to the best of his ability... and ultimately fail. They can't have known that he'd spent one final year leading the gutted remains of a Gotei in Shunsui's name to the best of his own ability... and also fail in all the ways that had mattered. They can't have known that even before those years, the two of them had met across a battlefield and crossed minds as much as blades, and even then, they hadn't felt like strangers to each other.)

[AUTHOR INTERRUPTS TO SAY I actually didn't want to mention Starrk's Zanpakutou like this because I have a whole thing planned out for it, as in I was insane enough one day and spent an entire afternoon creating a Bankai for him, but I also think some of you guys have probably guessed at least a bit of what his Zanpakutou looks like since I've dropped a few hints in previous snippets, so whatever, I'll just confirm its sealed form now. I guess this officially makes this snippet not part of the AU though cuz I originally had him not revealing his Zanpakutou until like a year after he graduates, post-time travel reveal. And going forward, he'd be meeting Shunsui differently here since originally their first meeting is at one of Asuka's tutoring sessions. But whatever, you can just go with whichever version you like best. Anyway, let's get on with my increasingly off-topic snippet lmao, sorry Anon.]

And last but most definitely not least, even disregarding everything else, Starrk's Zanpakutou alone is simply a Glaringly Obvious Sign From The Heavens. It's not that people from the same family always share similar Zanpakutou, but it's not exactly uncommon either—just look at the Shibas, they all have elemental Zanpakutou, and the newest one will probably go the same way; the Kuchikis have katanas with identical guards and always a white hilt or sheath; and not a single member of the Feng family that's passed through the Academy has ever left with anything but a wakizashi.

It's especially hard not to make certain connections that lead to the most obvious conclusion when everybody knows that Kyouraku Shunsui is the only Shinigami in living memory to wield a Zanpakutou that exists as two separate blades in its sealed form.

And now there is another.

The first time Starrk had finally removed his Zanpakutou - his entire Zanpakutou - from that wooden case he always carries around over one shoulder for a Zanjutsu assessment compulsory for graduation, the entire room had first gone dead silent, then burst into an uproar. Thankfully, it was a private assessment so there'd only been Starrk and several teachers inside.

They'd all thought they'd seen his Zanpakutou before - after all, he has to use a weapon in his Zanjutsu classes - but apparently, he'd always only taken one blade out for training.

A katana and a wakizashi, a daishou pair, each with a pale gold hilt, a darker gold sheath, and a blue-grey rectangular guard decorated by a sun design. Almost exactly like Kyouraku Shunsui's tachi and wakizashi, with their dark blue hilts and gold rectangular guards decorated by cherry blossom petals.

The meaning of it all could not possibly be clearer. At this point, if they're not family, they would have to be the kind of soulmates you would only find in one of those ridiculously sappy unrealistic romance novels.

(They can't have known that sometimes fate likes its jokes a little too much, and its favourites have always been the butt of them.)

Miracle of miracles, the pseudo-secret of Starrk's Zanpakutou doesn't leak right away. Starrk obviously doesn't want the attention for one reason or another, and the teachers have no real cause to spread it around so they don't. For one, they like him enough to cater to his very simple wishes, and for another, this man is clearly going to be a very powerful Shinigami one day, very likely to snag a captaincy sooner or later, and every noble clan is the same—if Starrk really is disowned, once the Kyouraku Family gets wind of what he can do, he won't be for much longer. And on top of all that, Starrk seems to be friends with the Shibas' most recent pride and joy; that's a connection that will get him far even without his own clan's backing. The Academy doesn't have much to do with the goings-on in the Gotei 13 or the government or the courts of aristocracy, but there's no need to make enemies when they don't have to.

Then comes the day Kyouraku Shunsui himself comes around for a visit.

This in itself is not new. The only career Shinigami from the Kyouraku Family isn't one to throw his weight around too much the way a lot of the other clans like to do for their kin, but he still checks up on his cousin two or three times a year, which in their opinion is already pretty admirable considering Fujiwara is not only from about as distant a branch as one can get, but also illegitimate, out of favour with her clan, and... well, painfully average in a way that means they all have to wrack their brains for compliments every time the captain shows up to ask about her.

Fortunately, for the first time since he'd taken up a position at the school, Koyonagi had done them all a favour and assigned her a tutor capable of working miracles, and so they can very happily and very honestly tell Kyouraku Shunsui all about the leaps in progress Fujiwara has made over the past several months.

The captain listens with a smile that's equal parts amicable and unfathomable, nodding in all the right places. He thanks them for their hard work even as he rakes a discerning eye over them that has them all sweating internally, but at least he also seems willing enough to not make things difficult for them now that Fujiwara is thriving under Shiba Ichigo's protection.

And that should've been it. That would've been it if Akabane Shiina, head of the Kidou department and arguably Starrk's favourite because he actually stays awake in her classes - he's certainly her favourite if the way she gushes about his gloriously tricky projects to a very resentful audience in the staffroom is anything to go by - suddenly bursts out just as the captain is making to leave:

"Are you not going to ask about your other relative?" She demands, her voice gone strident with righteous indignation. "Is it because he really was disowned and cast out into the Rukongai? But he is still better than Fujiwara!"

Shiina has no eyes for anyone without talent in Kidou. She doesn't have a problem with Fujiwara, and in fact, out of the four combat forms, Fujiwara is best at Kidou, although that might not last with the way she's catching up in all the other fields under Shiba Ichigo's tutelage, and Shiba Ichigo is notoriously slow at Kidou so he can't teach her anything in that area. But even on her own, Fujiwara's competency in Kidou is enough to meet all graduation requirements, and she'd even done fairly well in the fourth-year course Shiina had taught last year, certainly better than all her other subjects. However, she doesn't have the kind of flair for it that Shiina values.

Starrk does. And Shiina apparently does not appreciate her favourite pupil being dismissed out of hand just because he's considered one step lower on the social ladder than Fujiwara. Sure, Starrk is far more talented than Fujiwara; he's the last person anybody needs to worry about when it comes to graduating. But that's just all the more reason he deserves at least passing acknowledgement from a captain. And yet Kyouraku Shunsui can show concern for a neglected bastard but not a disowned bastard? Don't make her laugh.

Her temper has always been a straightforward creature, and so she ignores her colleagues' frantic squinting and meets Kyouraku Shunsui's gaze head-on when he pauses and then turns back, except he looks... entirely puzzled.

"Other relative?" The man echoes, looking genuinely baffled. "Did my clan send another child to the Academy? Maa, I wasn't informed. And Asuka-chan hasn't mentioned anything to me either."

A moment of silence follows. Shiina glares suspiciously at the pink-clad captain, who waits her out with the same unflappable calm Starrk pulls out whenever Shiina gets too excited about a Kidou seal and babbles for half an hour straight.

And she's supposed to believe these two have no relation to each other?

"He is not a child," She finally says. She doesn't know how old Starrk is, but it's very obvious he has at least several hundred years under his belt. He makes her feel young sometimes, and she's almost four hundred years old. "He came here from the Rukongai, with Shiba Ichigo."

She watches the way Kyouraku's eyes flicker as he takes in this information, but he doesn't emote anything except mild curiosity.

"Ah, I think I've heard a few things about Ichigo-kun's companion," Kyouraku muses. "Coyote Starrk, wasn't it? Also slated to graduate by the end of the year? But I'm afraid my clan definitely doesn't have a branch family by that name."

Well obviously, if he'd been disowned. He'd probably picked it for himself.

Kyouraku smiles a bit at whatever expression has crossed Shiina's face. It should be a scathing one. It feels scathing.

"But now I'm curious," Kyouraku continues, one hand reaching up to tilt his hat up. "For everybody-" His gaze sweeps the room, making everyone straighten in their seats. "-to think he's related to me of all people—we must be very obviously alike in some way."

Shiina scoffs, unimpressed. In some way? Try in every way.

But, at least he hasn't been ignoring Starrk on purpose. Mentally, Shiina grudgingly returns the 50 points she'd docked from him earlier.

She's about to interrogate him about what he's going to do about his curiosity - so help her, if he finds out Starrk really is family, then lets Starrk know that he knows now, and then rejects him for being disowned, captain or no, she's going to make him pay - when one of her colleagues, Koyonagi's gopher actually, because the man himself couldn't be bothered to show up, so as always, he'd sent his nominal vice-department head, interrupts.

"Are you certain you’ve never met?" The man blurts out like he can’t help himself. Especially now that Shiina’s fielded the hard part, and Kyouraku hasn’t taken offense. "Surely you've discussed his essays at least!"

Kyouraku arches an eyebrow. "I can't say I have. But what makes you say that?"

The Zanjutsu teacher flounders. The sixth-year Philosophy teacher is less unprepared and simply pulls out a folder, only about a third full, but they still have a little over a month to go. At least it lets the teachers spread them out a bit instead of having to read them all at once at the end. It was the original reason for the meeting today before Kyouraku had dropped by—going through some of these papers while their workload is still relatively light.

There is an essay question assigned to every student at the beginning of their final year at the Academy. Unlike all other assignments, this one must be completed in order to graduate whether or not your grades are up to par. Students have the whole year to finish it, but it can be handed in anytime.

It's long been said that the the essay question is something Yamamoto Genryuusai himself had come up with, originally posed to his two personal students hundreds of years ago, and unlike all other topics where the details would at least be switched up from year to year, this one has never changed since it had first been included in the curriculum.

To defend honour or to protect life—which should a Shinigami of the Gotei 13 choose to uphold? Why? Which would you choose? Why?

There is actually no correct answer. So long as the paper is written with some thought put in, it’s an automatic pass. But every year without fail, the lieutenant of the First will come by and cart the whole pile away. Nobody can say for sure what happens to them.

Nevertheless, most students choose honour for both parts of the question. Whether they believe it or not, they at least know the politically correct answer, the safe one. Some of the more outspoken students - usually Rukon stock - might choose honour for the first part but argue life for the second part.

Kyouraku Shunsui had been the only one in Academy history to have chosen life for both parts, and now, Coyote Starrk and Shiba Ichigo have joined him.

Shiina watches as Kyouraku wanders back over to peer down at the two essays the Philosophy teacher lays out on the table. She watches as the captain smiles, appreciative and a little amused, as he scans Shiba Ichigo's paper—a fierce discourse on the importance of friends and family, of prioritizing comrades even if it means breaking the law, of doing right by them even if it means discarding the honour of the Gotei or your own honour as a Shinigami because there's no honour in abandoning your loved ones.

And then she watches his gaze move to the other paper, and she watches as his smile fades and his expression goes still. His hand comes up again to tug down the brim of his hat but he never looks up from the essay—a succinct dissertation on doing everything possible to preserve the lives of those in your care, because the duty of a Shinigami to the Gotei 13 is first and foremost to protect the people who depend on them, to shield the world they all reside in, to stand between danger and the realms they have been charged with safeguarding.

—What does honour matter when you cannot protect what you have sworn to protect?

—When you make the choice to step on a battlefield, you are choosing to do all in your power to seize victory, because anything less is an insult to those who have placed their trust in you, a threat to those who rely on you, and a broken oath to those you gave your word to protect.

—When you make the choice to kill, because taking a life is in itself an evil act, you are choosing to carry the necessary sins that will be demanded of you in battle so that others will not have to.

—When you make the choice to protect, you are choosing to discard your honour, because honour will not protect your people. It will not protect the world. It will not protect anything save your own sense of righteousness, and what is that worth if all you care for is gone?

—To be a Shinigami means to shoulder the weight of countless souls. In essence, it is a promise to protect life to the very end, and if honour is the cost, then it is a small price to pay.

Shiina has read Starrk's paper several times already. She had even made her own copy.

She thinks he will make an exceptional Shinigami.

Nobody says a word even after enough time has passed for Kyouraku to have read the paper twice over. What little Shiina can still see of his shadowed face is utterly inscrutable.

When he finally stirs, straightening up to look around, there's something new in his eyes, some emotion Shiina can't place that remains even as he murmurs, "I don't suppose you know where-"

He stops when - as if on cue - a familiar reiatsu signature in the distance rounds the corner of the hallway leading to this room.

It isn't Starrk's reiatsu. He's hard to sense on a good day. But everyone has felt Shiba Ichigo's reiatsu at least once. Boy isn't subtle. He has the skill to hide most of it, but spikes of emotion or even just when he's distracted can bring it out sometimes, and his reiatsu - like that first shocking plunge into ice water that robs you of all breath right before any other sensation hits - isn't one people tend to forget.

And where Shiba Ichigo goes, more often than not, Starrk is there as well.

Shiina checks the time. Classes are out. It's Friday. Chances are good they're together.

Several feet beyond the door, the reiatsu signature comes to an abrupt halt. A few seconds pass, two muffled voices murmur something back and forth, and then footsteps resume, heavier this time, before three brisk knocks are heard.

The head of administration - the one with the highest rank in the room, bar the Shinigami captain - clears his throat, glances at her glower, glances at Kyouraku's perfectly genial expression, and then calls out like a coward, "Come in!"

The door swings open, Shiba Ichigo stalks in, and sure enough, Coyote Starrk shuffles in after him, hands in his pockets, and his bag and the wooden case containing his Zanpakutou slung over one shoulder. His face is so impassive it could've been carved out of marble.

Shiina docks 100 points from everyone in the room. Except Starrk of course.

But even she can't help staring at this meeting that somehow feels like it's been a long time coming.

Starrk's gaze rises. Kyouraku's gaze jumps straight past Ichigo. Their eyes meet, and for just a moment, all of time seems to shudder to a halt.

Silence stretches... and snaps.

"Hey, what's everyone staring at?" Ichigo cuts in irritably, waving the sheaf of papers he's holding in one hand. "We're supposed to hand in our waivers for the assessment on Monday, right? What's the hold up?"

He shoots a look to his left where Starrk and Kyouraku are still standing there staring at each other like the rest of the world has ceased to exist. He's already scowling, but he scowls even harder at the sight.

"Good afternoon, Kyouraku-taichou," He greets very pointedly.

Kyouraku blinks, and Starrk turns away, busying himself with digging out his own papers from his bag. The moment passes, and Kyouraku turns to Ichigo as if nothing out of the ordinary had happened, "Ichigo-kun, what a coincidence. What are you here for?"

Ichigo's gaze bobs between Kyouraku and Starrk again before he shakes the papers in his hand once more. "Starrk-san and I have our second Hohou assessment on Monday. It's the one where they drop us off in an arena full of Hollows, and we have to get out using only Hohou. But we have to assure the school we won't blame them if we get killed, so-"

He brandishes the waivers again and finally looks back at the teachers in the room. "I actually don't know why we have to do this. I asked Matsumoto, and she said she doesn't have to fill out any of this stuff."

The admin head coughs delicately. "It's for clan members, Shiba-san."

Three things happen at once:

Shiba Ichigo, predictably at this point, snaps, "I'm not a clan member!"

Coyote Starrk stops halfway through pulling out his own waivers.

And Kyouraku Shunsui goes back to staring at Starrk, although Shiina thinks he doesn't quite know he's doing it so blatantly.

"Shiba-san, your cousin has already had your name changed to indicate official entry into the clan," The admin head says placatingly. "And he assured us that it was with your approval."

Ichigo glares, clearly all set to spend the next hour fighting this new information tooth and nail. "That doesn't mean-"

"Ichigo," Starrk finally speaks up, but he doesn't say more than that. It doesn't seem like he needs to though because Ichigo breaks off, still scowling, but he also glances back at Starrk, who only arches an eyebrow in return.

Ichigo grumbles something under his breath before slapping his papers down on the desk in front of the admin head. "Fine, whatever, I'll go beat him up later. Starrk-san?"

Starrk meanders over, his own waivers already tucked away again. There's a slight slouch to his frame, his gloved hands are back in his pockets, and he doesn't loom, even stopping a foot behind Ichigo, but when he turns his attention on the admin head, the man almost visibly squirms under that blue-grey gaze.

"I'm not from a clan," He says mildly.

As one, the entire room sans the students and the Shinigami captain turn to look at said captain. A moment later, even the students turn to follow their line of sight.

Kyouraku stares back. Or rather, he meets Starrk's gaze again, dark and intent, searching.

Ichigo snorts. The tension breaks.

"This again?" Ichigo glances at Starrk again. "I thought that rumour went away months ago."

"I thought so too," Starrk agrees in bland tones. He looks from one teacher to the next, and even Shiina ducks her head a little when his gaze sweeps over her.

Another beat of silence ensues before it's Starrk's turn to heave a sigh.

"I'm not from a clan," He repeats in that quietly implacable way of his, and even though there's nothing threatening about him, not in his voice, not on his face, not in his posture, not even in his reiatsu, something in their hindbrains stills like cornered prey anyway.

"I am not a branch member," Starrk continues without much inflection. "Or an illegitimate child, I have never been disowned, and whatever else your... very healthy imagination has come up with," For a split second, he looks almost amused. "I can assure you, I am not that either."

He stops. He needn't have gone on because Shiina definitely believes him this time, or at the very least, she believes he genuinely believes he isn't a Kyouraku.

Except then Starrk also turns to the side where Kyouraku is observing everything in silence. Grey meets grey once more.

"This Taichou-san," Starrk says, looking at the captain in question. His face is unreadable. "Is Kyouraku Shunsui of the Eighth Division, right? Then he should be able to confirm—I am not a part of his clan."

Another moment of silence passes. Shiina catches the way Ichigo's expression has gone grim, although for what reason, she doesn't know.

There's been something off about this whole situation from the start. Why those two couldn't have gone away and come back later is beyond her. They'd clearly sensed Kyouraku inside even before knocking.

"It's true, as far as I'm aware, we really aren't related," Kyouraku says after a few seconds of studying Starrk some more. His eyes don't move away even as he speaks, and his tone is... strangely gentle. "And this should be our first time meeting."

Starrk's gaze slides away at almost the exact same time Ichigo reaches out and snags the sleeve of Starrk's Shihakushou, tugging him forward and around, which just so happens to plant him between Starrk and Kyouraku.

"So is there anything else?" Ichigo says loudly. "Or can we go?"

There's a moment where most of the teachers seem to have forgotten why they're there in the first place. Shiina huffs and decisively takes over.

If she could have her way, she would've already ejected Kyouraku from the room. Maybe they really aren't blood-related - what are the odds though? - but she's pretty sure there's something going on between them anyway. Them and Ichigo.

Whatever, it's not her business. Since both parties have said so, everyone else will just have to accept it.

But now that they've reached this point...

"Come here, I need to tag your Zanpakutou," She says briskly, taking out a box as she beckons them over. "The second Hohou assessment bans the use of Zanpakutou. You'd be surprised how many Zanjutsu-focused students try to cheat anyway, so all Zanpakutou have these attached to them before the assessment begins."

She shows them the tags with seals inscribed across the surface. They're nothing fancy, akin to nametags, but they do their job.

"We don't like separating Zanpakutou from their wielders once students reach their fifth year," She explains. "And all Shinigami are encouraged to get used to carrying their Zanpakutou with them at all times anyway. This way, you'll be able to take them in with you, but we'll know if you unsheathe them."

She takes out three tags and flares her reiatsu, watching half the seals light up before holding them out. "There. Loop the string around the sheath before tying it over the hilt, and then I'll finish locking them. They won't affect your Zanpakutou in any way, and you can still unsheathe your swords anytime. Try not to do that until after the assessment though. There's not much time on Monday to redo the tags, and you'll get marks docked off if you use them during the test."

Ichigo nods and grabs a tag first, head dipping as he reaches for the katana at his waist. Then he jerks back up again, wide-eyed, but Shiina isn't paying any attention to him anymore as she looks up at Starrk.

Starrk blinks at her once, slowly. His expression doesn't shift from its indifferent lines, but after a few seconds, something about his eyes thaws, the corners crinkling briefly with the faintest of mirth.

"You're a bit... petty, Sensei-san," He murmurs in a voice pitched so low only she and Ichigo can hear.

Shiina shrugs unrepentantly. She still can't be 100% sure Starrk isn't a Kyouraku no matter what the man himself believes, but she is sure that either way, it's the Kyouraku Family's loss.

If Starrk isn't a Kyouraku, then it doesn't matter, although knowing nobles, they'll probably be at least a little disgruntled that their unique dual-wielding Shinigami is unique no longer, and it's even someone from Rukongai who's manifested a daishou pair.

And if he is a Kyouraku, an ugly secret the clan had erased so thoroughly that even the only remaining heir of the main branch wasn't told, then Shiina wants them to know, wants to rub it in their faces, wants to shout, Look what you missed out on! Look what you lost! He's no less special than the only Shinigami you've produced!

So sue her. Maybe she's been a little bitter about Starrk receiving no offers from the Gotei divisions beyond the generic ones most students get because there are always unseated cannon fodder positions needing to be filled. Technically, it's Starrk's own fault for utterly failing to stand out in any way, but Shiina doesn't mind blaming everyone else for being blind.

She doesn't know what all Starrk can do, but she is absolutely certain he is far, far more powerful than he's let on. His Kidou work alone is magnificent, and someone like that can't possibly remain in obscurity. Anyone who looks down on him for his circumstance of birth or lack of background will regret it. This is just the first step.

Starrk huffs out an exasperated breath but doesn't refuse her little scheme because obviously she's his favourite teacher. He takes the tags, and then reaches up to twist off the cap of the wooden case.

One could hear a pin drop in the subsequent silence as Starrk retrieves his katana and wakizashi in one fluid motion and lays them out on the desk in front of him. The nearby lamp light catches on the katana's hilt for a moment, making it shine, like sun on sand. With deft steady hands, he attaches a tag to each blade, calm even with a sea of eyes on him.

Shiina slants a look to the side through her eyelashes and suppresses a very satisfied smile.

Kyouraku Shunsui looks like he's been hit over the head with a hammer. She's willing to bet it's a rare look on him, even for someone with a reputation for making a bit of a fool of himself in public whenever he drinks.

He looks stunned now, stunned and... and something else, the same something he'd shown after reading Starrk's paper, except in his distraction, it's far more noticeable now, even if just for a few seconds.

Wonder, Shiina thinks, and doesn't know what to think of it.

"Sensei-san?" Starrk prompts, tilting his blades towards her.

Shiina gives herself a mental shake before finishing up with the tags, Starrk's first, then Ichigo's.

"That's done then, you can go," Shiina tells them. "Have a good weekend. Don't be late on Monday."

Ichigo breathes a sigh of relief, looking reenergized, while Starrk nods at her, nods at the other teachers, and even inclines his head in Kyouraku's direction, before they both turn to go.

"I should get going too then," Kyouraku says, smiling once more and as affably composed again as ever. "Wouldn't want to overstay my welcome."

Shiina stoops down to put the box of tags away just so nobody will see her roll her eyes. By the time she sits up again, her colleagues have seen the captain off, and she silently wishes Starrk good luck with that one. Still, she doesn't regret waving his Zanpakutou in the man's face. She does dock off another 20 points though because she's decided she doesn't much like Kyouraku, especially when he's in Starrk's vicinity.

"Hey!" The Philosophy teacher suddenly calls out, flipping through the papers on the desk. "Where did Coyote-san's essay go?"

Everyone spends a minute looking for it. Shiba Ichigo's is still on the table.

Shiina glances at the door and lets her lip curl. Minus 100 points. She's never met anyone who's hit the negative hundreds so quickly in her life.

The others realize it too soon enough, and the admin head eventually sighs. "It's fine, we have a few copies anyway, and it's not the first time we've lost an essay."

"So... he's not a Kyouraku then?" Someone else pipes up.

An uncertain hush falls over the room. No one is convinced, Shiina included.

"Just..." The admin head waves a weary hand. "Treat him as we always have. It doesn't hurt to be cordial to a future captain, noble or otherwise."

Everybody agrees, and that's that.

-0-

Ichigo has never felt so awkward in his life. He finally understands what being a light bulb means, and these two aren't even dating anymore. Yet. Again. Whatever.

Still, he obstinately makes sure he walks between them. It's not much, but it's probably better than inflicting all of... Kyouraku on Starrk right away. The past twenty minutes had been awful enough. Not many had noticed, or if they had, they probably hadn't been able to pinpoint exactly what was wrong, but Ichigo knows Starrk.

Knows him well enough to tell that the man isn't in any way as put-together as he seems on the surface. Knows too that he's probably thinking about crawling into bed or walking into a lake or disappearing into the sands of Hueco Mundo and just never coming out again.

Ichigo doesn't know how to fix it though, doesn't know if this can even be fixed. The last year in their own timeline had answered him with a resounding no. So all he can do for now is stay close and make sure Starrk is never alone in these moments.

No one is talking. Ichigo wouldn’t usually mind, but the silence this time is tense. It’s also rare to have Kyouraku around and not have any conversation going. The man isn’t actually that chatty most of the time, even if he is a people person, but for there to be something interesting in his immediate vicinity - and Kyouraku is interested in Starrk, even Ichigo can tell that much - and yet choose to remain silent? Ichigo doesn’t like it.

They get all the way to the entrance of the staff building before Ichigo cracks.

“So what were you here for today, Taichou?” Ichigo asks. “Uh, if you can say, I guess.”

Shunsui glances over at him, glances past him, then back. “Maa, it wasn’t anything special. I was just asking about Asuka-chan's progress. You’ve done a good job with her.”

Ichigo flushes a little. “I didn’t do much. She just needed some confidence.”

Kyouraku hums, amused but warm somehow. He's always been good at that. “We’ll agree to disagree then. I’m grateful either way.”

Ugh, this was not what Ichigo had wanted. But he ends up nodding stiffly, and thankfully, Kyouraku gets the hint and drops the subject with a chuckle.

But that also means he has time to glance at Starrk again, like he's checking for a reaction. Unfortunately for him, Starrk is currently impersonating a statue, and he hasn't looked at Kyouraku once since they'd left the meeting room.

It's only when they step outside that Starrk finally stirs. He turns to face them, eyes on Ichigo, features carved from stone. "I turn off here."

Ichigo blinks. Oh, right, but- "You're already going back to the dorms? Fujiwara and Matsumoto want to go out for dinner."

Starrk nods. "I know, you mentioned it yesterday. I won't go. Give me your bag, I'll take it back for you."

Reflexively, Ichigo hands him his bag, but he also tacks on, "You can come too, they're definitely expecting you to."

Starrk shakes his head. "I'm tired, I'll probably just turn in early."

Ichigo opens his mouth to argue, but... to be honest, in Starrk's place, he probably wouldn't want to be inflicted with Matsumoto's energy either. Fujiwara's taking after her a little too much for comfort these days, and Gin is probably going to be there too, and nobody wants to put up with Gin when they're already feeling bad. Of course, Gin always looks sour-faced around Starrk instead of the other way around. Ichigo is pretty sure it's because Starrk has a way about him that makes the suspicious brat feel like the man's constantly catching him red-handed or something every time Starrk so much as looks at him, which is hilarious, but it also means Gin tends to either avoid Starrk whenever possible or needle him when it isn't. Starrk doesn't usually care, but it isn't exactly what anyone would call a good time.

"Okay," Ichigo says instead. "Just make sure you eat something first."

"Mm," Starrk says, very obviously not agreeing to anything. God, Ichigo is surrounded by people who are going to worry him into an early grave. On the other hand, can it be called an early grave when he probably should've died something like ten years ago?

...Wow, that's depressing. Best not to think about it too hard.

"Go have fun," Starrk says before Ichigo can press on the point about food. Sometimes, it's like Starrk forgets he's not just a Hollow anymore. Ichigo had heard that Starrk had transcended hunger even as an Adjuchas because his reiatsu had done the "eating" for him—and then some. And even after reaching the peak of a Hollow's evolution, he's still never needed as much of any kind of food as regular Shinigami, but that doesn't mean it's healthy either for him to eat nothing.

"Don't stay out too late, don't drink too much," Starrk continues, and Ichigo is distracted enough by this to drop the previous subject.

He rolls his eyes. "Okay, Dad. You know it's a Friday, right?"

Also he's not a teenager anymore, he doesn't say, because he's still mindful of Kyouraku's presence behind him.

(His human body had died as a teenager though, at the ripe old age of seventeen. Some days, it feels like he's still aging at the pace of a human, all grown up and as jaded as an adult can get. Other days, when Kaien acts like an annoying big brother around him, or when Starrk fusses over him in that weary, gentle way of his, Ichigo feels exactly like the kid he would be if he'd been born in Soul Society.

He's still not sure how to feel about that. It's weird, always, but... not always bad.)

Starrk raises his eyebrows. "Matsumoto has a makeup test at noon tomorrow. Ichimaru has an early shift in the morning. Fujiwara has an appointment with her advisor at nine, and you-" A wisp of amusement actually makes it all the way onto his face for a moment. "-have remedial Kidou lessons with Koyonagi at ten."

Ichigo immediately scowls. "It's not remedial lessons! That bastard just doesn't know how to butt out of my business!"

Starrk hums noncommittally, but Ichigo's on to him. That's his I'm laughing at you on the inside because I'm secretly an asshole hum.

"How do you even know all these things?" Ichigo grumbles, because honestly, even when Starrk comes to hang out with them, he spends at least two-thirds of the time napping instead of paying attention to anything going on around him. Ichigo hadn't known they'd all be so busy tomorrow.

Starrk just gives him a blank look like he doesn't understand the question. Ichigo rolls his eyes again and gives up.

"It's not like I was planning on staying out that late anyway," He huffs. "We'll be fine for tomorrow."

Starrk nods and says nothing else. Ichigo doesn't have the words to describe how much he likes that about the guy. Unlike Kaien, Starrk says his piece when he feels strong enough about something to actually make his opinion known, but the rest is up to the other party to decide for themselves, for better or for worse. Unless of course you're bleeding a river with your insides hanging outside and trying to insist you can totally still fight.

Healers. They're somehow all carved from the same terrifying, unbending mold. The day Starrk meets Unohana, the Gotei 13 may never know peace again.

Starrk slings Ichigo's bag over his shoulder as well, and then his gaze finally skates past Ichigo to the man waiting patiently on the side while listening with shameless interest.

"Kyouraku-taichou, I'll be taking my leave," Starrk says, polite and formal as he bows his head, as an Academy student should before a captain, and it's- it's wrong, it's all wrong.

Ichigo doesn't really count the first time he'd met Starrk as their first meeting, which means that for as long as he's known this man, it has always been as a package deal with Kyouraku, right up until that final year. To this day, he has no idea how those two had happened, but it's not like 80% of the people he'd known and befriended hadn't been his enemies once upon a time too, so he has no room to judge.

The point is though, from Ichigo's perspective, Starrk had always followed faithfully in Kyouraku's wake, in his shadow, at his shoulder, hunched over the same desk and working long into the night or decimating a battlefield on Kyouraku's command, with eyes for no one else, even when - in the early days - enemy Quincy had mocked him as the Captain-Commander's tamed mutt, and their own allies had disdained him for being Ukitake's substitute. But likewise, while Kyouraku had forged ahead to pave a bloody road through the enemy ranks because there was no one else to do it for them anymore so he'd had to do it for everyone else, it was always Starrk he'd looked back at, always certain that he would only ever have to reach out and there Starrk would be, and no matter what anyone had said about lingering loyalty to Aizen or potential spy for the Quincy or even a Captain-Commander with such an unsightly weakness, Starrk had been the only thing Kyouraku had refused to hear a single dissenting word about.

They'd orbited each other and stood as a unit at the helm of the Gotei 13, and to see them like this now - separated by death and time and memory - even Ichigo aches at the sight. There's barely five feet between them but it might as well be a canyon.

Maybe Kyouraku can sense something of it too, because he tilts his hat down until it casts a shadow over his eyes, like he can't bear to look, but at the same time, his gaze remains glued to Starrk like he can't bear to look away either.

"Aa, I'm glad to have met Ichigo-kun's most mysterious friend at last," Kyouraku says, voice as laidback as ever, eyes anything but. "You've never come along with the others when Ichigo-kun is training Asuka-chan in my backyard."

It isn't quite a question, but Starrk blinks slowly and replies, "That's usually late afternoon. I prefer taking a nap."

Kyouraku smiles a little, and the curve of it is almost sly. "My division grows the most beautiful cherry blossom trees in all of the Seireitei, and they're just starting to bloom. It's a good place for a nap while you wait for your friends to finish up."

Starrk's brow furrows faintly. "...It would be disrespectful to intrude. I'm just a student."

Kyouraku waves a dismissive hand. "And I'm the captain. I can do what I want. And letting someone sleep under a tree is hardly an earth-shattering allowance."

Starrk blinks again before giving the impression of a shrug without actually moving his shoulders. "Thank you for the offer. I'll keep it in mind."

Even Ichigo has to hide a wince at the flat tone. But Kyouraku only smiles some more. "Good. You can come by anytime."

Starrk nods, a graceful dip of his head that lets his gaze fall away as he directs his next words at Ichigo, "I'll see you when you get back then." Then once more at Kyouraku, "Have a good evening, Kyouraku-taichou."

And then he's gone without so much as a blur left behind. Ichigo doesn't understand why they don't just give Starrk an automatic pass for Hohou when the guy uses Shunpou like he's teleporting, and then he remembers that most likely no one else has actually seen him use it yet with this kind of proficiency.

He turns back to Kyouraku, then falters. The man is staring after Starrk, smile nowhere to be found, which Ichigo had expected, but there's also an unsettling air of loss about him, heavy as a funeral shroud. And then, in the next second, Ichigo suddenly finds himself on the receiving end of a dark, ruthless, calculating gaze that Ichigo's only ever seen on the future Kyouraku, on the Captain-Commander at his best, at his worst, his blades stained with lifeblood, his shadows come alive with abyssal hunger.

All the hairs on the back of Ichigo's neck stand up, and a chill runs down his spine. He will honestly never understand how Starrk could look at this particular monster time and time again and never even seem to notice the threat, had always walked in Kyouraku's shadows like they were an embrace and not a bottomless void of remorseless avarice. But Ichigo's also faced down plenty of things just as scary as Kyouraku Shunsui, so he only needs a moment to re-center himself and beat back the instinctive lurch of alarm in his gut.

It's easy to forget, most of the time, just what this man is capable of.

They end up staring at each other in silence, and for a moment, it almost seems like Kyouraku might finally push for some answers. Ichigo knows he hasn't been the most subtle, and there are a handful of people out there nowadays who have their suspicions about him, but so far, none of them have approached him about it.

Kyouraku looks like he's about to. For a split second, he looks like he dearly wants an explanation, and he won't much care either what he might have to do to get it.

Figures, a part of Ichigo thinks wryly even as the rest of him goes tense with a guarded sort of apprehension. It would be Starrk-san who brings this out in him.

But between one breath and the next, Kyouraku blinks, blinks again, and the strained tension pops like a balloon as the monster disappears back into the shadows, and Kyouraku is casually adjusting his hat like the whole stare-down hadn't happened at all.

Ichigo feels his eye twitch.

"Well then, I should be heading off too," Kyouraku declares, and his gaze is feather-light when he glances at Ichigo once more. "I suppose I'll see you at Asuka-chan's next tutoring session. Perhaps I might see some of your friends too, hm? The more the merrier of course, so don't worry about any noise complaints. It's good to be livelier when you're young."

"Uh-huh," Ichigo says very dryly. Internally, he sighs and makes a mental note to do his best to convince Starrk to come with him next time.

Of course, he'll be first in line to beat Kyouraku up if this all turns into (more) heartbreak and (more) tragedy, but...

He's not actually so oblivious that he doesn't know Starrk might still only see a cliff's edge that he'll be more than happy to take a swan dive off of at the end of all this. He talks a good game, and after a year of practice, he's gotten a lot better at hiding his grief. At the very least, ever since they'd come back in time, Ichigo hasn't been able to pick up much more than a haze of melancholy from Starrk that comes and goes at irregular intervals.

He doesn't know how to fix it, doesn't know if it can even be fixed. But he does know that if anyone can pull Starrk back from that cliff, it's this man in front of him.

And Ichigo's lost enough people. He doesn't want to lose Starrk too.

So he'll keep an eye on this relationship, make sure Kyouraku doesn't overstep, and make sure Starrk isn't letting Kyouraku overstep, but otherwise, he doesn't think it's a bad idea to help it along a little.

He fervently hopes he's making the right choice.

Kyouraku takes off with a last friendly nod, and Ichigo also hurries away to meet up with Fujiwara and Matsumoto.

For now, everything will keep another day.

[ruporas]

kiss the pain away

[moongothic]

Rereading Dressrosa for the first time in quite a few years, after having become a Crocodad Truther specifically, was a really interesting experience, mainly due to the relationship between Kyros and Rebecca and Luffy's very strong feelings about those two in particular

Starting with the latter point; watching Luffy get really passionate about making sure Rebecca reunited with her father, instead of the two never seeing each other again as Kyros had planned, was just really facinating to me.

Now there ARE layers to this; Luffy saw first hand how much Rebecca and Kyros love each. Even if he didn't know or understand all the details, he knew these two were family forced to live apart due to Doflamingo's rule and that, even though Rebecca didn't know Mr Soldier was her father all those years, he still looked after her and did all he could to protect her. Luffy understands how much they matter to each other. Luffy also gets that Kyros was trying to make a sacrifice out of self-loathing; Kyros saw himself as a bloodstained monster who did not deserve to be by his daughter's side, thus his insistence on them going their separate ways. But not only is that "sacrifice out of loathing" not a thing One Piece rewards within the narrative*, but Luffy emotionally understands what Kyros was trying to do was stupid as hell. *(See; Robin trying to save the crew in the CP9 Saga, Sanji trying to offer his head to Kuma to spare everyone else (because he saw himself as the "least worthy", compared to Zoro who believed he was the only one who could actually tank Kuma and survive), Sanji again during Whole Cake Island, etc)

Adding to that, in what I feel also harkens back to Alabasta (vaguely important since Dressrosa in many ways is a reflection of Alabasta); Vivi made her decision to stay in her home because that's what she wanted deep in her heart, because she loved her country. Just the same way, dethroning Doflamingo, getting revenge for her mother and reuniting with her extended family were all fine achievements. But all Rebecca wanted deep in her heart was to stay with Mr Soldier (regardless if he was her father or not). That's what mattered the most to her.

How could Luffy even think about leaving without making sure Rebecca was able decide on her own if she wanted to stay with her father, instead of him making that decision for her, not because it was truly "for the best", but out of Kyros' own guilt and self-loathing.

All of that to say; Luffy becoming so emotionally involved in Rebecca and Kyros' father-daughter relationship is perfectly normal and on-brand for him, it's not strange at all.

...At the same time. I could not help but to wonder if those two's relationship could somehow reflect Luffy's relationship with his estranged parent(s), and more importantly, kind of debunk the fandom idea of Luffy as someone who 100% does not care if people are related or not and has ZERO interest in Dragon etc

Like I have discussed this before but I've been meta posting for so long on here I'll repeat myself just a lil; I feel like it's less "Luffy doesn't care Dragon is his father" and more "Luffy doesn't know HOW to feel about Dragon". We don't know what Garp told Luffy about his parent(s), presumably and based on the conversation post-Enies Lobby it just seems like Garp never mentioned ANYTHING to Luffy? Like he didn't even tell Luffy a white lie about why his parents weren't there for him? We simply do not know. But what we do know is these three things: 1. Luffy hates being alone, even more than "being hurt". Being alone is his worst fear 2. Although Garp was responsible for raising Luffy, he wasn't always there, meaning other townspeople and Shanks' crew alike were equally "responsible" for looking after Luffy. 3. Meaning Luffy was essentially an orphan. Fans will joke about Luffy's surprise at him having a father being because he's stupid, an asexy and doesn't know where babies come from, and while I may not be fully able to debunk that conceptually. Like. It's just as possible that because Luffy was raised like an orphan, he might have assumed that either his parents were dead or had abandoned him because they didn't want him. And I'm going to argue that if that's what Luffy always assumed was what happened, yeah, it'd contribute to his fear of being alone. It'd explain why he'd be surprised to find out he actually does have a father out there somewhere. And yeah, Luffy might not know how to feel about Dragon if that's the case. Should he hate Dragon because he wasn't ever there for him (from Luffy's POV)? Why wasn't Dragon there for him? Did he really not want Luffy, or did he have some reason for leaving Luffy? What is he like anyways, is he nice or cool or a dickbag?? Should Luffy even care about any of that stuff??? All of that to say; I don't think Luffy is completely disinterested in Dragon, I think he doesn't know how to feel or think about Dragon, and it's not relevant to Luffy right now anyways because Dragon's like, out there somewhere while Luffy is on his journey. Where as, if Luffy were to meet Dragon, get to know what he's like, why he wasn't there for Luffy and most importantly, how he feels about his only son (does he care about Luffy and his wellbeing? Is he a Kyros or a Kaidou?)- yeah, I think then Luffy COULD learn to be interested in Dragon and care about him Not out of obligation (because of their blood) but out of Luffy's own will, out of Luffy's acknowledgement of Dragon's love for him

And yeah, then we get to add the ever-delightful layer of Crocodad Trutherism to this mess.

You know how my personal theory goes; that Crocodile's been trying to find a way to overthrow and nuke the WG (potentially with an Ancient Weapon) to make sure his long lost child would be able to live freely and do whatever the hell he wanted without having to fear the WG would ever target him because he has Evil Revolutionary Leader Blood coursing through his veins. That's what makes the most sense to me as Crocodile's ultimate motivation. To protect his child, no matter the cost, even if he had to become the devil himself.

And hey, what was the story between Kyros and Rebecca again? Kyros trying to overthrow a corrupt government (a fallen Tenryuubito to boot) to protect his child so she could live freely without having a target on her back?

I don't need to explain how One Piece does have repeating themes and motifs, surely. (Also there's something to be said about fathers in One Piece who would go to hell and back for their daughters, Kuma being another example, but that's a whole different essay. But Oda's Girl-Dad Agenda is showing)

But yeah, what's even more interesting here is how Kyros believed he didn't deserve to have a reunion with Rebecca. He commited a murder decades ago, and although everyone else seems to have forgiven him for that crime, Kyros himself still thinks of himself as a horrible murderer with bloodstained hands. Not helped by how Kyros thought him teaching Rebecca self-defence skills was a failure on his part as a father (instead of him doing all he could in the horrible situation they were stuck in; teaching Rebecca how to defend herself was absolutely justified, and Kyros shouldn't have blamed himself for anything there).

Kyros didn't think he deserved to be with his daughter because he wasn't a good father, because was a monster. And Kyros could not believe anything other than that until Rebecca essentially forgave him, by explicitly telling him she wanted them to stay side-by-side. That she wanted him, and no one fucking else, as her father.

And I once again repeat myself just a little as I ask; how would Luffy feel if he found out Crocodile was his father? How would Luffy feel if he found out the reason Crocodile was going to destroy Vivi's country was because he was trying to protect his son from the WG? And that son was Luffy himself? How would Luffy feel that the asshole who stabbed him through the gut, mummified him and poisoned him was his very own family? Who also saved Luffy's life the second he learned of their blood connection? How would Luffy feel in that situation, if he found out Crocodile cares about Luffy, and wants him to be okay? And how does Crocodile feel? After stabbing Luffy through the gut, mummifying him and poisoning the brat, does Crocodile feel like he has any right to call himself Luffy's parent, let alone father? He knows Luffy rightfully hates him for all the horrible things he has done, how could Luffy ever accept him?

The past is in the past and it can't be changed. But you always have the choise, the free will, to change yourself and become a better person. You can choose to do better things, to help others and be kinder. You can have a second chance.

Robin was given a second chance. Hacchi was given one too. Kyros was given that chance to become better. So why not Crocodile?

[dollypopup]

I think it's interesting to look at the 'Mr. Bridgerton' scene as a backdrop for the eventual mirror scene. Firstly, in the fact that I think we've kind of misinterpreted it.

So many people are of the mind that scene's purpose to 'drag' Colin, but really, that scene has 3 primary functions. The first is to inform Colin that Penelope is aware of what he said of her, thus opening the door to clearing the air between them and providing an avenue for which Colin can apologize. The second is to establish the ground that they are currently on: Penelope has given up on the dream of Colin Bridgerton, in particular the perfect prince that can do no wrong, and has made it clear to him. It also creates distance between them that they will bridge.

But the third, and to me the most wrapped up in the mirror and the inner workings of their relationship is that it reveals how Penelope feels about *herself*. It's not necessarily an echo of what the ton considers her as, after all, we have a lot of evidence indicating that, for all intents and purpose, people aren't *unkind* about her, but rather that they ignore her. Audience members recognize this as Penelope's own shyness being the cause, she is often sitting off on the sidelines or not really talking to much of anyone, in the books she's referred to as the 'one who doesn't speak', and her LW business takes her away from being a character in the action of the ton to a bystander, kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts that perpetuates itself. Pen felt unseen so she became LW to have some power, but then LW herself must remain unseen and Penelope continues to be by design of her own making.

No, I think what it really reveals is that Penelope has incredibly low personal self esteem. We as a fandom has lauded that scene as her dragging Colin, saying that he's cruel and calling him Mr. Bridgerton is absolutely meant to create distance between them, but I don't think she's dragging him.

Because the person she is *actually* dragging here. . .is herself. And it is a general theme in her life. In Whistledown. Aloud. Even with Marina, when she complimented her, she assumes that she's lying. When Edwina says she's wearing a pretty dress, Penelope puts herself down and doesn't believe her, even when the compliment is genuine. In truth, Portia is not seen as being particularly unkind to Penelope. At least, speaking as someone who's mum was *awful* about my size and weight and outfits, Portia is. . .overall rather mild. She's not KIND and loving, not by a long shot, but she's also not targeting Penelope only. She's plenty mean and critical to Prudence, too, even to the point where she foists her off to her own cousin as a pawn piece. Penelope has low self esteem because of a lot of reasons, she's bullied by Cressida (I think a lot of girls are, she was pretty mean even to Daphne in S1) and her family isn't very tender to her, and she's not being pursued at every turn, but part of it is also her own perpetuation.

Listen to what she says "Of course you would never court me" "I embarrass you" "I am the laughingstock of the the ton". She sees *herself* as an embarrassment. She puts *herself* down. Arguably, more so than the ton does. She's meaner to herself than anyone else is, aside from Cressida. And honestly? Looking at Colin's face there. . .he is HURT that she considers herself this way. That she's projecting that onto him. Yes, he's hurt that he hurt her, of course he is, he never wants to hurt her. And yes, he's ashamed that he said he wouldn't court her the way he did and that in doing so, he validated her fears that she is unloved and unwanted, but also because. . .she already feels that way about herself. She's felt that way for years. And it's painful to care about someone, to see them as wonderful, and realize. . .they don't feel the same about themselves at all. I don't think Colin is out here feeling so wounded over the fact that she called him cruel and won't refer to him by first name anymore, but that he's most hurt by what she says about herself.

Because he *doesn't* see her the way she accuses. She says she never expected him of all people to be so cruel, but he feels the same way. He never expected her to be so cruel to *herself*. He wants to go somewhere private, not because she is an embarrassment, but because he wants to have a private conversation with her. Maybe assure her. Maybe explain himself. Maybe hash it out. But god Luke Newton's acting. . .he is *aching* for her. And it feels like he's going to do those lessons not in atonement for what he said (thank god) but to genuinely help his friend who thinks badly of herself. To lift her up. It's not about him at all, not about earning forgiveness, but about elevating Penelope. And that's. . .fuck, I just find that's just so heart stoppingly beautiful.

You can see, in that scene, how much he cares about her. How deeply and genuinely he adores her as a person. And just how painful it is for him to know he has validated, whether on purpose or otherwise, how poorly she feels about herself. How low her self-confidence really is. She is giving him a glimpse into the cracks of her heart, and when he sees them, he wants to reach out with both hands and make it feel better. Make her feel better.

After she says 'even when I change my entire wardrobe', he looks so fucking crushed. So 'don't say that'. So 'you really believe that?'. So 'God, I hate that you think that way'.

Because regardless of it all, he does love her. It's not romantic yet. It's not sexual yet. But he genuinely, truly, from the bottom of his heart, thinks she's wonderful. That was evident even in the 'purpose' scene. Every time Penelope opens up and reveals a facet of herself, he likes it. He likes her barbs and her dreams, he likes talking to her. He likes her. And he feels awful that he hurt her. And he feels awful that she's hurting herself. He loves her. He wants her to love herself.

And that's where the mirror scene comes in. Because the mirror scene isn't about sex, not really. Not entirely, at least. The mirror scene is about *intimacy*. The mirror scene is about being seen. Not just her seeing him, or him seeing her, but for Penelope to see *herself*. In a way, through his eyes. Because hers are biased rather negatively toward herself, which is evidenced in the 'Goodnight Mr. Bridgerton' scene, and in so many little moments we've already gotten where she's literally looking down on herself, feeling down. She doesn't necessarily *like* what's in the mirror, but he does. Because he likes *her*. And he wants to show her that he does. Show her that he finds her beautiful and have her recognize that in herself.

The 'Goodnight Mr. Bridgerton' scene is about Penelope revealing how she sees herself. The mirror scene is about Colin showing her how *he* sees her. The Goodnight scene is about Penelope thinking she means nothing to him, that he thinks of her the way she thinks of herself, that this is how everyone thinks of her, and the mirror scene is a direct response to that: No, he doesn't. No, he doesn't think she's embarrassing. No, he doesn't think she's a laughingstock. No, he doesn't think she's unappealing. And he doesn't think she should, either.

And he's going to show her that. Not just tell her, but show her. The mirror scene is so often a focus on Penelope, so much of Polin is in Penelope's focus, but approaching it from Colin's perspective and his motivations is so fulfilling, too. It's a glimpse into them in conversation, and a demonstrate of how Colin loves her. How Colin loves in general, openly and earnestly and altruistically. How he encourages her to be braver and more confident in herself, bolstering her because he just likes her *that much*. How he finds the most fulfillment and satisfaction in caring aloud. The mirror scene is a demonstration of his heart in reflection.

When Luke Newton said the first word that came to mind with the word 'Mirror' was 'Exposed', he doesn't just mean physically. He means emotionally, too.

God this couple is so fucking good.

[s0fter-sin]

ghost stares at the ceiling, chest heaving in a harsh pant; sweat ice on his clammy flesh and soaked into the sheet he restlessly kicks away.

ears still ringing, his fingertips blindly drift down to trail along his vivisection scar. he half-expects blood to smear in their wake. his own line of solomon, who ordered him split in twain; half of him given to a grieving mother and half left with the grieving to be.

just for both his broken halves to be rejected.

what did it make him that his mother grieved him more than she loved him? that she begged to be relieved of him more adamantly than she begged to receive him? why did his worth spill out with his drawn blood? why was his pain lesser than hers?

his hand flexes, digging into the raised scar like it’ll part beneath his fingertips to plunge into his mangled insides. no one knows the cruelty of reforming the halved; his name, his being, not nearly as important as his body when he was stripped from himself. no one knows the pain of healing and understanding losing pieces of yourself means losing your value along with them.

how many more pieces did he have to lose before he was halved once more? before his very presence incurred grief so strong it was better to be rid of him than cradle his bloodied remains?

did the infant fight himself? did he age always at odds with himself; his halves never truly whole? he hopes he wasn’t, that he was spared the loss of self; the fear that one may be welcomed over the other.

who will he lose when the inevitable comes? when he’s ripped apart again? simon? or ghost? is it better to be cursed with choice just like his mother or live with an aftermath chosen for him? does it matter if in the end, he convinces himself there was nothing of him left to lose?

his head lolls to the side and the wild buck of his chest slows. he watches johnny beside him, his face lax with the rare peace of sleep; his cheek squished against the pillow, his lips pursed as long breaths escape him.

johnny. soap. never torn asunder but two all the same.

he carefully reaches out and ghosts his fingers along the jagged scar on his chin. even in sleep, he presses into his bloodied touch. he’s never fled his half-flesh, never shies away from his gore as it spills unbidden from his cleaved torso. he holds on where his mother let him go; cups his stomach to hold his insides in place and never minds the blood that drips through his fingers.

simon will never let him become his own solomon and cannibalise himself. he will never let him question which half of him has more value; which pieces he can afford to lose before he’s cast aside.

ghost’s soap. simon’s johnny. his.

whole, in any incarnation.

[willowcrowned]

bonus points if you say in the tags why the fic is on anon

[dayurno]

this is somewhat of a vent post & something i said i would not do again but has been plaguing me enough that i think getting it out might feel better. so. has anydoggy else been. Baffled and upset by nora sakavic’s refusal to speak on how terribly aftg has treated its characters of color? with the author of the series coming back with a new book and starting up on her online activity again, and questions of what she’d change about aftg bubbling up, it’s particularly glaring to me that we are all playing this very long game of pretend where we ignore how badly the non-white cast has been treated & her lack of thoughts on it

and i understand not wanting to bring up nicky and thea because people pick on her for it. i’m not trying to discredit nora sakavic’s terrible history of getting harrassed online by aftg fans. but i think it is very cynical, and it is very juvenile, and most of all very cruel, that she gets to ignore the very real ways the books have set up these characters to be hated. i think it’s obvious why the characters who get the most hate are the only canonical characters of color, and i think we do not get to treat this like a deliberate decision on the fandom’s part when the books have put these same characters in degrading and embarrassing and terrible positions in the first place. aftg is not a story about nice characters with clean pasts, but there is a very specific nastiness to the only characters of color being a brown man who sexually harasses and later assaults the main character, a black woman whose only scene is her lashing out at her love interest after being ignored for the first two books, and the japanese villain who gets maybe two lines of complexity before he goes back to being a terrible person. the white cast, in comparison, while not at all free from flaws, are never shown to commit mindless evil; all of their actions are ultimately justified. the book goes out of its way to give them concession after concession. we know exactly who to side with, because aftg tells us who these people are. does nicky’s assault ever get addressed in the books? does riko’s reasoning to be the way that he is ever gets more than briefly aluded to? is thea reserved even a shred of humanity or grace in her one scene?

anyway. it’s been years of talking about this and the fandom has been constantly hostile to criticism in this regard, and more recently any criticism at all, and it’s Grating to be on the other side of this discussion. it’s exhausting to know that in ten years we do not get even an acknowledgment besides the author saying she will not answer questions about nicky and thea anymore. it’s upsetting and it’s ugly and i wish no one had to talk about this again, but we do because what i thought was common sense has been washed away by a sudden influx of no-nuance adoration for the trilogy. basically i hope we all explode

[aria0fgold]

Finally done with my version of The Universe's design!

[romans-empire]

It's no secret that Clover and Flowey have a very apparent power imbalance. Especially with Flowey in control of the timeline and acting as Clover's save point. So, it's pretty given that Flowey has the upper hand and most power in this duo. But I don't see anyone ever talking about how Clover goes against this power imbalance in other routes besides the vengeance route.

Starting off with the vengeance route, this is the most cut and dry portrayal of Clover's defiance towards Flowey. After mercilessly going through the Underground, enacting vengeance left and right, and defeating Zenith Martlet, Flowey unintentionally reveals his plan and tries to load another save file only to realize that Clover's taken control of it. Right then and there, the power dynamic shifts, Clover is the one in control and Flowey is the defenseless one. This is further affirmed when Clover kills Flowey as he insults and degrades them as a way to assert control and dominance over them, which obviously doesn't work.

On the topic of the vengeance route, I would like to shine some focus on the overall dynamic here. As much as Clover is following through with Flowey's suggestions of straightforwardly going through the Underground to get to the castle with no regard for anyone, he is not in control of them. He may be getting what he wants but it's in a way that doesn't follow through with his plan. Like Flowey said, Clover was reckless. They attract too much attention with their actions and that won't do for Flowey who wanted to attract as little attention as possible. Even when the two are the most similar in terms of goals and attitude, Clover does not allow Flowey to dictate their actions and when push comes to shove, they will assert their power.

In the neutral route, Clover, no matter what LV they are, defies Flowey by accepting Martlet's offer to live with her. In turn, Flowey kills Martlet and absorbs their soul. We know the psychological horror mindfuckery that is the Meta Flowey fight takes place in Flowey's mind as he tries to make them give up control, yet Clover never does. They resist all the way to the end and even go further by snooping in Flowey's memories. Clover never once gives in or falters to Flowey, they will not allow him to have control over them. They will not give him control over their soul no matter what incomprehensible horrors Flowey throws at them.

In the end, Flowey has to give up and reset the timeline because they would resist Flowey every time. I would like to remind you that it's implied that Flowey did this multiple times and never once did he succeed. For someone who doesn't have much determination to control the timeline, Clover has a lot of determination to resist Flowey in absorbing their soul.

Honestly, out of the three routes, the Pacifist route has the least obvious show of defiance from Clover. It's still there and very much so, but it tends to get overlooked due to the nature of the storyline of the Pacifist route. Clover's defiance comes with their choice to connect with the other characters of the game. Time and time again, Flowey tries to dissuade Clover from interacting and forming bonds with the others. He attempts to isolate them by repeating that he's their only friend and to ditch the others when they accompany Clover, like with Martlet when Clover first crashes from Ava. Flowey tells Clover that they're better than the Wild East and urges them to leave as fast as possible and head straight to the castle. And each time, Clover ignores him and continues to form these bonds anyways.

The last act of defiance against Flowey is Clover's decision to sacrifice their soul. It's indirect sure, but it is possibly the biggest 'fuck you' to Flowey. Clover probably didn't mean it as such but the point still stands. Despite this, Flowey acknowledges them as a friend, recognizes their sacrifice. And so, the power dynamic shifts again, this time to a lesser degree. Of course there's still the Omega Flowey fight but even then Clover goes against him, refusing his control and actions towards torturing the next human that falls.

Overall, despite what some of the fandom believe, Clover is not completely helpless against Flowey. As much as he tells that to himself and even us the player, Flowey is not in control of Clover nor is he so powerful that they cannot fight against him. Clover has a sense of agency that Flowey cannot take away. Clover is free to make their own choices and he cannot stop them. Sure Flowey manipulates them but when has that ever succeed in the long run? When has that ever fully brought Clover to his side? Flowey may be the one with the most power in this relationship but that doesn't stop Clover from wrestling out of his control. Clover is free like a bird and no cage will ever bind them to Flowey.

[iusedtohavesixtoes]

Feeling sentimental about Seteth the doting (grand)father!

I should write more of them.

[karvviie]

just want to say that you are one of the only artists whose wash take i respect especially because youve mentioned you dont even like him that much so hes kind of just a cute handbag for characters you do like. i love that.

helpppp yeah… i mean i do like wash. i like to put that man in situations. i think i just care more about the version of him in my brain rather than in canon.

i guess he’s just not exactly the type of character i go super crazy about but i do also have some reservations about his place as a “white” character in a fandom.

i only say this because when i first joined the rvb fandom years ago, he was pretty much exclusively drawn as a white man. i’m not saying that people only like him because he’s white, but i do think that in any community there will be some people with an unconscious bias towards white men. for example, there are many instances of poc characters in a piece of media being written poorly or as the therapist/accessory to the tortured white guy.

it’s totally normal for people to play favourites though obviously (i do too!) it’s only when it leads to the poor treatment of poc characters which is when it doesn’t sit right with me.

anyways. that’s not really relevant but i just wanted to explain my thoughts on the topic. regardless of whether he is white or not i fully understand why wash is one of the most popular characters and i don't have any problems with him or his stans or to people who see him as a white man! people have a right to envision him however they want to.

i just gotta be wary sometimes because there are certain people out there who can get very defensive over their favourite characters. i’ve had people in the past be very racist and mad at me for not drawing him as a white guy. and yes i know it’s basically canon that he’s white but also i don’t really care. people are making these heterosexual characters yaoi it up so why can’t i draw this guy who’s face has never been revealed into a poc.

[fictionadventurer]

Potential September Reading

The Hobbit by J.R.R. Tolkien (ideally in audio)

An English Squire by Christabel R. Coleridge

A Sherlock Holmes story (and/or a screen adaptation)

C.S. Lewis nonfiction

A sensation or mystery novel

A piece of one of the Psmith stories

Some kind of nonfiction book

[mechazushi]

Kafka Hibino

Kafka Hibino.... with visible salt and pepper side burns.

Kafka Hibino.... wearing glasses and has salt and pepper side burns.

Kafka HIbino.... in that black turtleneck and a dark brown leather jacket and also wearing glasses and has salt and pepper side burns.

Kafka Hibino.... wearing that outfit and is an Animal Biology Professor in an College Au.

Kafka Hibino..... asking out Hoshina who is an Advanced Mathematics Professor working at the same college, to have an after-work drink with him.

Slightly DRUNK Kafka Hibino... becoming very forward with an also slightly drunk Hoshina

Slightly Drunk Hoshina... immediately matching Kafka's freak tenfold and Kafka is very much fine with this.

[batsplat]

hi! I don’t know if this is the type of question you’d like to answer, but I was thinking about how being born in the same year would have affected valentino and marc’s careers (as in both born 1979). would they or could they have started in the same year? would they be teammates at honda, and if so, would valentino still make the switch to yamaha? how does this affect rivalries with other riders? I just think it’s interesting to think about!

it sure is interesting to think about!! tossing it under the cut because this gets long and kinda dumb

well, look, let's set some basic conditions here. first of all, obviously we don't know if 1979-born marc reaches the same level of success because of how the sport changes over time, everything is super circumstantial, what even is 'talent' bla bla bla (kinda the stuff I talk about here). he can't use his signature riding style on those bikes, demands of the bikes are different, competitive ladders are different, local motorcycling scene is different, etc etc etc... hey, by the same token, maybe he'd be even more successful and would never lose a race. we're going to throw out all that nitpick-y shit and assume that he makes it to the top of the sport. we're also going to assume that marc and valentino are both able to compete with each other on relatively equal terms and go from there. we'll obviously never know either way, but this is the most fun way to approach it, like obviously either 'marc wins zero titles' and 'marc wins ten consecutive titles' are deeply unsatisfying outcomes... I do think you can get fun and nerdy into figuring out how exactly their respective strengths and weaknesses as riders compare, what their title fights might look like, the nitty gritty of which tracks they'd beat each other at... but I reckon this post is probably long enough as it is, so I've mostly skipped over those bits. they both win some titles, that's what we're going with

the precociousness question is interesting because, again, obviously marc's development timeline would inevitably look at least somewhat different in this universe. would he start grand prix racing a little later? would he need a little longer to adapt to those 500cc bikes than he does to motogp bikes? who knows. let's just play this the most simple, straightforward way possible and again assume he hits his early career milestones at the exact same rate - most importantly, of course winning the premier class title as a 20 year old rookie. it's an editorial choice that lets us skip to the fun stuff

so, the fun stuff. let's compare and contrast their journeys to the premier class:

top row is ages, bottom row is years in this timeline, the cells indicate championship positions, the colours indicate class (green = 125cc; blue = 250cc; lavender (?) = 500cc)

this actually works out quite nicely! they're not even really encroaching on each other's titles at this stage. if you really want to get into 1998 lore, obviously that title becomes way more complicated... aprilia is the strongest team, they had that 'super team' set up already filled up, do they supply four guys? is marc somewhere else? does valentino have worse machinery in that year? one of the two other guys? who knows, and also this feels like maybe a tangent for another day. let's assume they're both competitive here, and then it doesn't really matter so much if valentino ends up p3 in that championship - crucially, he still needed a big chunk of that season to adapt to the bike

so then! let's start with this time period, and rattle through some random thoughts about what the competitive landscape looks like pre-2001:

if marc is that good that early, he kinda hogs up a lot of the limelight. some folks took a bit of a punt on valentino in 1996 to get him into gp racing - yes, there were already signs of something special, but it was still all a bit more uncertain

so valentino is basically always in the position where he's hunting marc... he's constantly a step behind

now, it's actually possible to wager a good guess at how he reacts to that! the answer is 'not great': when he was constantly asked about biaggi, whether he was the biaggi of 125cc and all that, he came out with the line that biaggi would dream of being the valentino rossi of 250cc. in this timeline, I don't think the biaggi thing completely goes away because that's still italy's darling... but the first point of comparison would always be marc. and valentino unsurprisingly doesn't enjoy always being second best

of course, they do have enough overlap in the lower categories that they do actually get to fight each other on-track. 1996!valentino was, as he describes it, "an absolute pest". even though he only finished in ninth in the standings, he did get a win and was often in the front-running group, so let's say they do have a few on-track run in's during 125cc. chuck those two together as seventeen year olds, and this sounds like *checks notes* a bit of a health hazard. there is a genuine argument to be made that valentino is worse at this stage - from oxley's reference book about france 1996: "valentino was once again in the mix at paul ricard, ducking and diving in the midst of a leading group that numbered up to 16 riders, but he was riding harder than ever, using all the kerbs and then some and occasionally kicking out at rivals with his knees and elbows"

marc likes to respond to aggression by one-upping his rivals, so this feels like it just goes wrong. several times. while they're still in 125cc. also, marc is mostly winning that year, which really lights up valentino. if anything, he'd probably be even more motivated during those years, because now he's got someone to chase and someone he would just love to piss off

let's say marc still narrowly misses out on a rookie 250cc title in large part due to injury. they spend a year together in that class too, where valentino is doing a lot of learning - but is a frontrunner basically from the word go - and marc is going for the title properly now. they have a lot of intense annoyingly tactical battles this year, plenty of dramatic last lap battles, and it takes valentino around half the season until he starts winning some of these (irl, he won one of the first ten races of the season and then the last four - and also crashes a lot. marc was the class of the field)

this is the year in which marc is just... a lot. plenty of controversy!! practise crashes! back of the grid penalties! and if marc does stuff like 'trying to run his rival off-track', there is a bit of a risk valentino attempts to one-up him here. they are both starting to get real reputations, and valentino's probably gets worse by association lol

then marc heads off to the premier class. valentino dominates his 250cc title, but he's being overshadowed by marc doing the thing. which means he will be extremely fired up once he gets to the premier class himself... which might not actually help him. too much exuberance on those 500cc bikes sounds like a recipe for painful crashes

let's assume marc dominates the first half of that season and it takes valentino a while to get going. the second half is more competitive when valentino finally clicks with the 500cc's and marc starts making more errors... setting up what's to come

let's also say marc immediately gets to the repsol honda team because they really want the next big thing and the contract situation is different from when valentino joins a year later - whereas valentino still gets a shell satellite team set up for himself in 2000. he's still obviously highly rated by honda and they still give him doohan's old crew and presumably quite heavy factory backing... but there's also not quite the same urgency in the succession planning. you kinda want to sign the kid so nobody else gets him, right, and he did beat marc a few times at the end of 1998... who knows who ends up turning out better, yeah? but at the end of the day, marc is still Plan A and he seems to be working out pretty well for them

this is all well and good, but obviously a rivalry is a bit more than just a general vibe and on-track incidents and a list of results. so, my general thesis for how this relationship goes is that it kinda oscillates between 'pretty good vibes!!' and 'breaks your geiger counter'. this goes in cycles of about 2-3 years, becomes a lovely soap opera for the paddock to follow. so let’s say for instance that they go through a rough patch in 1998, and then again in 2001, and then again 2003-04, and so on…. then you get marc’s injury years and from then on it gets proper messy

so, here's a stab on what the interpersonal vibes look like during the early years:

valentino embraces the underdog position. you get this with the biaggi stuff but also you get it throughout his career... he actually likes it! he's so much about surprising people, subverting expectations, proving them wrong... he thrives in the role where everyone thinks marc is going to be the next big thing and dominate the sport for fifty years

he does also have the potential to be a major thorn in marc's side, especially if the title fight is as close as marc's canonical 125cc title was. but they do run into the same problem here that they unfortunately will always run into: they get on as people! their chemistry has never actually been an issue. back then, you'd also get more like... socialisation in the paddock... it's a bit more casual, less professionalised, they hang out more and are teenagers and are both young and annoyingly good and eventually get to that irritating 'you're the only bitch in this house I respect' thing

valentino is still very good at making marc laugh, and seems to find marc funny too so. that's a thing. marc canonically glomps onto a very small number of people, and he's already shown in real life one of those people can absolutely be valentino. we all know what we're here for and it's the most BORING outcome if they're just indifferent towards each other. but why would marc be! of course, he's completely taken in by the super talented charming rival who is actually willing to match his viciousness step for step. he wants to fight valentino forever and ever

marc does really want to be friends... once he knows valentino he decides he really likes him... sometimes he's a bit oblivious to how tough he's making valentino's life, sometimes he's wilfully disinterested... valentino is sucked in a little bit in spite of himself, though I still reckon valentino's cynicism about friendships with rivals was learned over time (hey ho sete). at the start, valentino is happy enough to be friends with his close rivals, and really it's only later that all those subconscious issues of keeping rivals at arms' length develop. he's there to have fun! it might be vicious on-track, but it's a party off-track!

and he thinks it'll totally be fine!! he's not adverse to chatting up rivals and trying to get a sense of how they tick for future reference... some of the stuff marc does bothers him, but it's not like he can immediately even articulate why. and it is tough, with how marc has long been the chosen boy... just how brutal marc gets when valentino gets close to beating him... and usually valentino reacts Just Fine to that, but he does file it all away for future reference, because he sure doesn't think marc is reacting that way to just anyone on-track...? and then sometimes marc is perceived as a real rival, sometimes he just makes valentino uncomfortable, and valentino suddenly remembers that Actually, this is a Work Relationship. in general valentino runs very hot and cold with marc, in a way that does make sense according to his internal logic but can get very confusing to anyone else, not least marc

the slight mismatch between their rates of progression also gives you these gap years where they're not directly competing... and valentino is really coming into his own in 1997. so, yes, valentino is constantly chasing marc from a competitive standpoint... but marc is watching valentino's celebrations and thinks they're just like. the best thing ever. accidental valentino rossi fan, poor soul. a big fan of the hairstyles and will enthusiastically defend them to any critics, including that one time when one of his parents made a derogatory remark about the green hair

what if they're proper friends in 1997 (age eighteen) and hung out and gone to parties together and gotten drunk and have just become Real Actual Teenage Friends while they're not racing each other... when marc gets his diplopia, what if valentino is kinda freaked by this, he'd been planning to get to 250cc to beat marc's ass next year... what if he goes to visit marc, what then...

still, this is probably around the time when valentino first says mildly annoying stuff about marc to the press (going by the biaggi precedent), which is how you set up them really going at it in 1998. it gets vicious... but also, they're young, they do kinda get over it, and then marc progresses to the premier class and they can just socialise normally again... all the while, valentino is watching what marc is doing and thinking about just how badly he wants to beat marc

valentino's rookie campaign in the premier class is also fine - because valentino is too busy adapting to the bike, marc is dominating, and traditionally those are not the circumstances in which valentino picks his fights. they have a lot of fun here together, and they're both very generous about each other's successes. marc is so impressive, I can't compare myself to him yet, valentino's adapting so well to the premier class, he'll definitely be fighting for titles soon, etc etc. fair fights (by their definition of 'fair', anyway) and them both being really complimentary towards each other afterwards. everyone who wanted beef is disappointed and disgusted, but at least you've still got the vale/biaggi thing going on in the background (btw marc also for SURE would've picked a fight with biaggi in 1999, so they can bond over that and pointedly chat to each other in pressers while ignoring biaggi)

valentino's ability to make marc laugh is particularly lethal in this year, because valentino’s struggling just enough that maybeeeee marc is being suckered just a little into thinking he’ll always have valentino covered. so he can just let himself have fun with valentino without feeling too threatened... this sets up the title fight in the following year being a complete and utter nightmare… late 2000 is already ringing a few alarm bells when marc’s results start getting messier and valentino is clearly finally properly getting to grips with the 500cc bikes (first dry race win late that year). oh well! I'm sure their relationship will survive just fine!

and then... well, again, super conveniently, valentino's first premier class title at age 22 matches up with... you know. marc's 2015

let’s just say marc does suffer a bit of head loss when he encounters his first real challenge in the sport, when there’s finally a bit of real adversity after so much success. valentino wins the first few races while marc has some patchier results, and then marc kinda tries too hard to close the gap - and then, whoops, he’s gone too far and he’s left himself with too much work to do. I did run the maths for their average points at xyz age just to have a rough measure of how the seasons compare… as in how valentino’s compare to valentino’s and marc’s compare to marc’s, because any comparison between the two is completely meaningless, very different competitive pictures. that being said, fun fact: biaggi actually scores slightly more average points per race in 2001 than marc does in 2015. still, I don’t really believe you can get marc to sepang 2015 that title fight, just isn't close enough… the marc/valentino relationship does still sour, but it’s because you get an assen equivalent... valentino wins in a slightly dubious manner, and marc doesn't react well... after which valentino goes ‘aha so it’s all right until I’m winning, yeah?’

valentino in this timeline has just like. such a massive victim complex. helps fire him up that everyone’s constantly underrating him NOBODY believed he could ever take on marc (this is mostly not true). the way the assen 2015 equivalent plays out is not just ‘what a sore loser’ but also ‘MARC NEVER BELIEVED I WAS GOING TO BE A SERIOUS THREAT AND THIS PROVES IT’. it’s like… deeply insulting to valentino and also triggers the bit of valentino’s brain where he has to prove everyone, most of all marc, wrong. that's how you get the interpersonal hurt! valentino fully believes marc has switched up towards him and can't handle any version of their rivalry where marc doesn't have the upper hand. and marc does need some time to get over it and maybe he did write off valentino just a teensy bit but also... this is just how he competes... he thinks of a lot of things as 'fair game' that others don't... and he does also view valentino differently when he's a real competitor, so valentino isn't even completely wrong... marc does react badly to losing for the first time... but it's also more complicated than that, because marc is genuinely fond of valentino and really does want to put all that aside when the title fight is over again, except valentino thinks marc has shown his true colours. whips this controversy out later on in the season as he has a habit of doing, presumably when there's not even really any title fight impetus because that's been mostly wrapped up. (which would be a bit unusual for him but, hey, he's young and silly, he doesn't start feuds in Sensible Ways back then.) so they just kinda both end up escalating it and making it ugly, and by the end of the year it's all a mess. without any competitive justification... it's a bit argentina 2018 vibes, like there's not really any point to it apart from how they both drive each other insane occasionally. big public controversy. nobody wins here!

my guess is that the general pattern of this relationship is that it’s fine any time marc has a clear edge, and devolves every time valentino challenges him. this isn’t necessarily because I think marc throws a fit every time he’s challenged - it’s primarily because valentino prefers to attack from a position of strength. basically, if you want to get something proper nasty from him, you either need to get him with his back against the wall where he reckons blowing shit up is his best choice… or you wait until he has the upper hand, at which point he attempts to press home his advantage. bite harder when the opponent is already bleeding, if you will. a big believer in being a mean winner over being a sore loser, valentino is, and you do see this trait at various stages of his career. also, mostly there has to be a competitive justification to start drama? if he can't fight properly on-track, then why bother? so at times, it’s all civil on the surface when he’s on the back foot… but when he’s on top or close to the top, then the knives really come out. incidentally, this is one of the reasons why irl he was relatively restrained with marc post-2015 (look, I’m aware it might not seem like that but he definitely was way less indiscriminate with the snide jibes lobbed at some of his other rivals than he was with marc). there was never a situation where it really felt worth it with marc, and it’s just… a better look to have a go at your opponent when you’re winning, right? in this alternate timeline, there absolutely are times when valentino feels like it’s worth it... first premier class title is still baby valentino who isn't really deliberately picking fights and is more genuinely hurt by what he believes is marc playing dirty, so it's all less deliberate and calculating. but from then on you do see this pattern a lot I reckon

in terms of fallout, obviously you’d have to assume their popularity would be at least a little more balanced - and at the very least there’d be more national loyalty from the spanish here (boo!! vale!! at!! jerez!!) BUT valentino is just very good at the charm offensive… all the quirky celebrations, plus everyone loves an underdog who takes on the big bad dominant athlete of the time… idk, I reckon he might still get the love of the masses. if their relationship completely deteriorates in 2001, that feels like disproportionately it gets uglier for marc. but it's too much for both of them!! valentino gets a bit spooked in a way he didn't irl after the biaggi rivalry… he really did like marc and against biaggi he did just end up being everyone's sweetheart ridwe in a way he can't quite pull off against another young star… and it's just all so polarising! the factionalism takes valentino aback a bit - I still think it's worse for marc, but valentino goes. hey. this isn't fun any more :(

and oh, by the way, valentino switches to repsol honda for the 2002 season

everybody is extremely hype to see what the two do to each other as teammates, Will They Murder Each Other, but they are initially disappointed… contrary to popular perception, valentino is in fact capable of biding his time, and he goes into that season deciding it’s in his interest to Not have any more drama - which marc broadly agrees with him on. this detente doesn’t last long, obviously, but I feel like this is the time period where they're both a bit more settled, a bit more consistent, less susceptible to complete head loss, can really go at it in the championship... you get a couple close title fights here I reckon, ones where they're trying not to reawaken the feud between each other but... hey, let's say they actually have a crash where they take each other out (the one thing they canonically did not get to do!!) while fighting for position. massively try to downplay it afterwards, they're both hard racers after all :))) but everyone kinda knows it's only so long until this goes badly again. except at the same time they're kinda forcibly exposed to each other a lot in their capacity as teammates and they remember how they were actually Friends and the line between pretending to enjoy each other's company and not pretending is blurred... and the initial drama wasn't as bad as sepang 2015 (also helps valentino that he won the equivalent title in this timeline lol) and valentino knows he's going to see so much of this guy... he's someone who doesn't want to spend much of his life in awkward silences... they're kinda destined to be rivals forever and ever and they're also teammates and there was way too much drama... so actually they do get back to a friendly jokey place... is it sincere? is it not? who knows (not them)

dealer's choice who wins these two titles. we can chuck in one of those where valentino wins the major on-track battles but then marc wins the title fairly comfortably or something... valentino would really relish those fights lbr, even when they don't alter the momentum of the season as much as he'd like. maybe they do get a super close title fight for flavour, one where they're both actually consistent and the big on-track battles do make a difference in terms of momentum and all that stuff. crucially! they still have FUN fighting each other! that's the key thing... plus, they have that annoying vibe where they think they're the only guys who can match each other... there's that mutual understanding that's built in the heat of battle, like they're the only one who really gets what the other is all about, nobody else can... if anything, marc is forced to respect valentino even more now that vale has actually managed to beat him over the course of a full season at least once. biaggi is still a personal antagonist for valentino, but even irl he does very much fade as a threat after the first title fight - and it's all kinda defanged by marc's presence. how borderline obsessed valentino ends up with marc. maybe biaggi still ends up being the real title threat in 2001 after marc nukes his hopes early that year, maybe you still have some of that canonical vale/biaggi drama, but by the end of that year it really is more about marc and THEIR whole thing

brief interlude for a list of jibes valentino likes throwing at marc on a semi-regular basis as he gets better at using the media:

inconsistent stewarding: easy one. valentino was canonically an absolute menace in his early days, but by the time they compete in 250cc I’m sure there’s some mildly phrased insinuations that marc really seems to be getting off lightly with his penalties. valentino isn’t as skilled a media operator back in those days - but with marc’s hit rate of controversial incidents, it’s just incredibly low hanging fruit. valentino picks it with ease

Stop Asking Me About Marc: see the biaggi of 125cc thing. valentino gets sick of being constantly compared to marc! he's his own girl! it's what prompts the first insults he lobs in marc's direction, and it becomes a bit of a running theme. it's not even that anti-marc, but the more sick he gets of The Narrative the more implicitly anti-marc it becomes (marc, who's a lot more into the idea that they're Eternal Rivals, doesn't start drama over what valentino says but it just makes him a bit sad :( like HE doesn't have any problem being compared with valentino Actually)

‘woe be on me for taking on Big Honda’: listen, irl obviously valentino was increasingly annoyed in 2003 when both sete and biaggi argued he had the better bike than them because he was in the factory team. irl that ‘satellite team’ of his in 2000-01 barely was an independent outfit. still, would he have hesitated in 2001 to remind people that his number one rival was decked in repsol honda colours and he wasn't? well, probably not. just rhetorical positioning, right - he’s not even attacking marc, he’s just politely questioning whether honda really would prefer the satellite team to win the title and whether that might not have an influence on what bike parts they’re sending to which riders… just mentioning it! just reminding everyone of what an underdog he is! in case anyone had forgotten!

unequal treatment: this type of thing probably wouldn’t stop when valentino switches to the repsol honda squad. also probably would be justified lol - we’ll get to this in a second, but if he's facing a marc who has had time to make this team his own and is going to fight to keep it that way? yeah, hm. the way this works is that marc is waging most of this war behind the scenes and valentino, who'd be constantly on the back foot in this scenario given it never would have really been his team, is repeatedly taking it public. doesn't work particularly well beyond making marc's life more unpleasant - the public takes valentino's side, honda doesn't

'someone doesn’t like a challenge :((': again, the assen 2015 equivalent, where valentino points out their relationship was just fine until he started seriously challenging marc. young!vale doesn’t really have a reputation for being a particularly nasty competitor, especially if the biaggi feud is defanged just a little… so I reckon he could actually pull this off quite nicely. marc does rub a lot of people the wrong way, even without the valentino factor! he's so obviously rough and ruthless and so committed to winning that valentino can easily play victim here

'marc races me differently': basically the silverstone 2016 thing... it's not really something valentino complains about once they're through the 2001 title fight, and there is the understanding that this behaviour is kinda mutual - but valentino does occasionally throw in a snide remark. just to remind everyone that marc treats him differently!! he's extra aggressive with vale!! of course valentino is totally fine and chill with it, just wanted to remind everyone. in case they'd forgotten. just. a. reminder.

of course, there's also another major issue: the unique stresses of the teammate dynamic. here's the big question - does the switch of valentino to yamaha still happen? yeah, sure! I think he could well get flighty. marc would be the established guy within honda and someone that valentino would never be able to completely displace. plus a lot of valentino’s canonical complaints do still hold, about how honda doesn’t care who’s winning as long as it’s a honda, the stifling culture of winning, the joylessness… marc wouldn’t leave honda unless he absolutely has to because he loves that team, that's his home in a way it never is for valentino. but he is also obviously an absolutely awful teammate to have and, bit of a hot take here, when it comes to the development war stuff he kinda is worse than valentino. so you've got marc ensuring vale's input into the development process is constantly ignored, marc's entire team attempting to isolate valentino within honda, and he never does manage to ruin valentino's title hopes entirely, but inevitably the internal war is one valentino never comes particularly close to winning. in real life valentino sticks it out in repsol honda for a grand total of two years, aka the length of one contract cycle, which sounds about right for the length of time that team would survive until they do just start attempting to strangle each other. so vale goes to yamaha! this would not be a pretty divorce, and it would be even more obscenely risky than in real life, flat out insane from valentino. irl people think he's kinda crazy for doing it, in this universe people would think he's just an idiot. how on earth is he planning to beat the marc marquez on a yamaha?

interpersonally, the yamaha switch is. not good vibes. valentino has spent an entire year implying he feels imprisoned in a team with marc (LOVE brno 2003 in this universe), and marc finds this move a) baffling, and b) kinda loser behaviour because valentino can’t handle taking him on in the same team, so he’s essentially conceding the fight to marc. this dynamic is basically two years of marc attempting to bully valentino behind the scenes, trying to make his life hell, just endlessly gnawing away at him, and then valentino's like 'right lads I'm out' and marc goes :( why would you do this :(( I'm losing my main rival :(( I thought you were better than this :( I thought we had something special :(. for valentino, yes partly he's throwing a fit because he knows honda would never choose him over marc, partly it's justifiable frustration at being stuck in very much The Marc Team, but partly it's also kinda... not really fun for him... he does actually want his team to care about him... but honda doesn't care... so that's that

now, realistically, in this timeline marc has zero right to be losing to valentino in 2004 - not with that bike disparity. maybe if he loses his head completely! that’s… hm, 2018!marc, who we know did have some capacity for head loss. if marc builds up an early advantage while the yamaha is still at its dodgiest, it should theoretically be game over. if he does something silly… hey, who knows. that one’s a fun one psychologically because obviously marc would be the overwhelming favourite that year and valentino can completely embrace the underdog role. I do also reckon whoever wins this one, you can have a real big proper falling out either towards the start or maybe even towards the end of the season. it's all more serious now, somehow... being at honda together meant it just kinda felt like they'd be exchanging titles, honda didn't mind who won - but now both manufacturers are super into it, the press is even more into it, they're more into it... it's personal! they both have a point to prove! maybe marc dropped a few kinda mind games-y comments towards the end of their time together that he doesn't get why valentino felt like he had to leave, that it's not really what a rider does when they think they can win in a fair fight, kinda implying maybe valentino thinks he's already won enough titles and knows he isn't beating marc again anyway. valentino responds in a sane and proportionate manner (bottling it all up and then using any controversy that happens the following year to just unleash on marc). let's say marc wins that title (and valentino gets second place just ahead of sete), but valentino wins a big dramatic fight late that season, and there's some kind of justification for him to really lay into marc, to set off the feud all over again... all sets up their title fight the next year, of course

irl this is when they're both at their very best (2005/2019 respectively), so they get to be at their very best here too. in the name of balance, maybe you should let valentino have this one... or maybe not, swap these titles around at will. but if he DID, then he obviously builds that title charge around a big dramatic victory against marc early in the season on spanish soil. it feels lazy to just copy paste jerez 2005 and valentino being booed to this scenario, but let's assume marc does have his canonical early season crash at a friendly track (á la cota 2019) and that valentino does get that big victory at... hm, catalunya (ik, switching jerez for that is very creative) (but at least he can't get skittled by jorge lorenzo in this timeline). and the win is in somewhat controversial fashion and national partisanship is at a high here... canonically, valentino gets more aggressive in his racing during his switch to yamaha out of necessity, though in this world I imagine he would've already gone more extreme earlier while trying to match marc. they both kinda have to be careful to not go... too far, constantly flirting with the limit, exploring how much they can get away with, but they do have a duel here where they really push it. cause some controversy. give the season the right vibe (x)

no misano on the calendar unfortunately for an equivalent marc being booed moment, and I actually quite like the idea they both keep their respective mugello and sachsenring streaks (so no booing a victorious marc at mugello). each of which isn't the favourite track of the other, though vale in particular has had some great sachsenring scraps... and valentino's margin over the field at mugello is way smaller than marc's equivalent margin at sachsenring. but again, mugello's not really a fantastic marc track, and even without facing prime!valentino he didn't win after 2014, so it feels reasonable valentino could still get a bunch of consecutive wins there. I reckon we give marc a donington park victory, which was basically like valentino's second home race and a track valentino did really like. plus the british fans are canonically absolutely out of their minds so it works. the way the timeline works out that would unfortunately steal one of valentino's most iconic wins, but let's not overthink this eh

let's say their interpersonal relationship is actually slightly on the mend again after the nadir of the previous year, but the public has never been more divided... this is basically what everyone had wanted, right? the competition and the racing has never been better bla bla, they're nicely contrasting characters who are both happy to play dirty, and they give the press a lot to work with. (there are also a vocal minority who despise them both for being 'dangerous assholes' but what can you do.) hey, maybe they actually manage a season where they're the only two guys to win races, that would be kinda cool - and if you look at 2005/2019, surely it is possible... (I suppose sete is a bit more competitive here at least than he was irl because valentino has had the decency not to crush his soul.) narratively, of course it's a bit too neat to let them have this showdown just before it goes to shit for both of them, but they're the type of guys to make things narratively pleasing so I'll allow it. two nations divided, plenty of sniping at each other in the press, but #realfans will note they actually start meeting each other's gaze again in pressers and even manage to shake hands... let's say valentino does most of the points damage early that season, bites at marc from a position of strength (or something) to create a bit of a buffer, before running a bit of a defensive campaign, while marc is gradually ramping up the sheer levels of on-track terrorism. valentino does not remember the last time he had an fp2 session where he didn't have a honda-related jump scare. bless

anyway, listen, I don't really care about the order of these titles, beyond it being more fun for our purposes here if they're more or less balanced (though I do think it's neat if valentino is always kinda stuck chasing marc). they never get quite to the same relationship lows of sepang 2015 because, well, you needed a lot of very specific circumstances to get there irl - and I do think them being peers and being more familiar with each other does help... there's also no real power imbalance, or certainly not as extreme. plus, they're kinda aware from early on that they're stuck with each other. they're primed to spend their entire careers as rivals, like it or not! (I imagine valentino would very much Not like that at times.) they are both deeply pragmatic a lot of the time as racers, and valentino in particular would be less inclined to completely burn his bridges in this scenario I reckon. life's easier when you remain civil... and unwittingly they do keep remembering how fond they are of each other

brief interlude to ruminate on how this all actually affects them as people, vs their canon selves!

valentino never gets to be The One Guy in the sport, which does take something away from him in a way... a little less confidence, always a little more to prove. again, I do think he's quite comfortable in that underdog role and manages to make it his own. he's not as popular, he's not singlehandedly breathing new life into the sport... but on the other hand, what do people love more than a great rivalry? people would have gone crazy over them both, and valentino would've taken full advantage, turned them both into even bigger stars... still, there's a little more insecurity in there over his own abilities than there is irl where he was the single lord and master of the sport for years

the thing about marc is that so much of who he is as a racer feels to some extent influence or inspired by valentino that it's kinda tough to imagine who he is without that. then again, having valentino as a peer does allow valentino to still exert some of that influence (if obviously in a different way). they'd learn a lot from each other, at the end of the day - and even if marc doesn't hero worship valentino... he can still think vale's really cool... it's not star struck, but it's maybe a little bit star struck - given valentino is just so different to anyone else marc has ever come across

the power dynamic does change how they both approach the interpersonal relationship too... irl!valentino does really like adjusting his interpersonal warmth settings to what exactly he's attempting to accomplish in any given rivalry at any given point (even though, again, he's not that deliberate with it from the start of his career). but he's also less likely to completely freeze marc out... not for long, not forever. they basically do the 2016-18 cycle several times because they're competitive enough for long enough to be able to do that shit. warm with each other before there's another big fight, again and again

you do flip the dynamic a little bit in that valentino is the one to shape himself in response to marc a bit now... always chasing, perhaps a note of envy, perhaps some resentment of marc's role in the sport... perhaps also wishing he could get some independence, some freedom from marc and this joint legacy (also helps motivate the switch to yamaha). marc is way more into that shared legacy lbr, but they are both the types to get themselves nicely fired up over an enemy... so consciously or subconsciously they do play up that feud at times when it suits them competitively

no sepang 2015 trauma for marc! this valentino stuff might be bad, but it would never be that bad. he's a bit more happy to pick fights! a bit more happy to do his psychological warfare in the open! a little more openly annoying! less worried about how he's being perceived! more willing to meet valentino head on! let the man have some fun

okay. misery town... 2006

so, look, obviously we're applying some artistic license again here if we're keeping both the arm injury and valentino's dramatic last round loss. like, if you really want to get into it, valentino needs to lose the championship to someone and in this universe there's no seat available in repsol honda in 2003 so do you put hayden somewhere else within honda... but after that rookie season does honda still have enough faith to actually promote him... also does it make a difference if he doesn't have valentino there to directly give him advice... also, dani would PROBABLY just be promoted directly to the factory team in 2006... like idk I do feel this universe might kill nicky hayden's career and valentino should reallyyyyyy win this title. but like. fuck it. who cares. there's also a more abstract argument to be made about how irl!valentino does feel that he left something on the table in 2006 (personally I think it's one of his most impressive seasons but sure, I do get what he's saying) - but surely you wouldn't be 'complacent' in the same way if you hadn't won the last five titles? but again. nobody cares. let's assume they both still have broadly the same year they had irl, partly because there is something.... pleasing? sad? about how the ages DO actually match up here in terms of when their domination of the sport kinda collapses (if to completely different degrees). which would be a massive shock for the sport, right! both of those things irl are already a big shock, but if you have two super dominant forces you would kinda assume one of them would be able to pick up the pieces in any given year, even if the other falters? especially if 2005 was like, this ultra dominant season from the pair of them! but no, suddenly they're both diminished, maybe it is possible for someone else to actually win a title

(another 'fun' coincidence is that jerez is actually the season opener for the very last time in 2006... until 2020. so you can directly layer these races onto each other rather nicely, with valentino's first corner crash and marc's gravel excursion happening at jerez, two early disasters they're attempting to recover from before marc's crash)

on this year:

not really MUCH to say about it on-track if we're assuming it broadly plays out the same...

idk, guess it's about how you want to interpret their relationship. does valentino give marc a call? does he have an aneurysm watching marc attempting to race the following week in *checks notes* qatar? does he get quite stressed out about how cavalier marc is with his own safety, because unfortunately he does care about the guy? does he feel like he's missed his big chance to exploit marc's absence? does the press give him a lot of flak for this? any more insecurities to work through here?

hey, at least there isn't a pandemic in this universe

the thing is, right, if you've spent your entire racing career hunting down this one guy, who's always a step ahead of you, using him as a way to motivate yourself - so much spite, as ever, with valentino to get himself going - and then he just disappears... like they've been sharing the paddock for ten years, for valentino's entire grand prix career. his first memorable battles were against him, he was watching marc win titles in a higher category than vale, then this gradually escalating rivalry with more and more history and hatred and genuine friendship... you kinda inevitably end up defining yourself by the other, right? you can't avoid being shaped by that relationship, by that competitive push and pull. without quite the same interpersonal breakdown... well, valentino is someone who loves to hate his enemies. like, he does enjoy the animosity! he enjoys sniping at his rivals! he enjoys fighting them flat out on the track and off it! and if marc is suddenly gone, he's left feeling bereft. he doesn't get WHY, but he misses him...

marc starts getting long phone calls from valentino where he goes on increasingly incoherent rants about whatever aspect of the sport has annoyed him today. marc doesn't understand what's going on but he's not going to complain. it's a nice distraction

on to 2007! so, obviously the honda in 2007 is better than the honda in 2021, and irl dani does actually end up outscoring valentino by one point (after valentino attempted to ride in valencia with a broken hand and immediately had a mechanical dnf lol). (also idk what to do with the honda situation, let's pretend like honda panicked and created a three man team.) I'm gonna go ahead and say that this version of marc would get considerably better results than 2021!marc, but is not getting particularly close to winning that title. maybe he finishes fourth in the championship idk. he's missing races, honda's definitely not on ducati's level that year, honda/yamaha are still on the michelins at a time when the bridgestones are very much the tyre to be on

one rider who is guaranteed to insert himself into that rivalry in any timeline is, of course, casey stoner. now, casey does get a bit of a grace period from having to deal with marc... marc is absent for his rookie season and is still preoccupied with his injury afterwards. mostly, this is valentino’s problem… but also!! marc can multi-task. so you know how casey complained about valentino hazing him in practise sessions in 2006? and you know how marc would make himself a nuisance in 2019 when following around rookie fabio during quali? and how he followed around his new yamaha hire and rival vinales in pre-season testing in 2017 on a fact finding mission? and how irritated casey was when elias kept following him in successive races in 2007 (see here)? and how much marc was using this tactic post-2020, including by repeatedly picking on new big name pecco? how he generally does this in quite a targeted manner against his main rivals? and how he also tends to do it more when he knows it'll piss people off? so, let’s put all of those things together. how do we think that plays out?

this is why I reckon that despite how casey is nominally fighting valentino for the title, somehow you’d manage to have more open hostilities between casey and marc. again, remember how the casey/vale dynamic went irl: yes, casey was increasingly pissed off by the end of 2007 because he thought valentino wasn’t as nice to him any more and was also annoying in the press about him. but like, relatively speaking… this is still all quite small scale stuff. valentino mostly just does some wink wink nudge nudge stuff to the press that gets back to casey and annoys him because he thinks it’s contributing to an overall unfair narrative about his title… but it’s all still fairly subtle. valentino waits until laguna the following year to go all in, where he completely changes up his on-track tactics and - once he’s got his big win - he really makes sure to rub it in. there's a clear competitive justification for the laguna escalation, but his baseline level of on-track aggression with casey is relatively restrained until that point

by contrast, in this universe you get at least three or four incidents that year where casey extensively complains marc and marc just does the equivalent of a thumbs up (or a literal thumbs up, as he has been known to do). valentino determinedly stays out of it but probably silently enjoys it. by virtue of the negative effect marc and valentino have on each other, racing standards are really not at casey stoner acceptable levels at this time. casey doesn't enjoy valentino's media whisper campaign, but the marc stuff broadly bothers him more... in the races, outside of the races... irl valentino sort of retreated and regrouped late 2007, early 2008 and was less focused on fighting casey, more focused on exerting pressure on yamaha and figuring out the tyre switch he'd forced through. marc does NOT have a title fight to worry about and can instead dedicate himself to making a nuisance of himself. the thing is, casey is generally more inclined to expressing his annoyance through the media than on-track (unless he literally punches you, which he has of course done), so that's probably one of those weirdly one-sided situations where marc does drive casey absolutely insane but also doesn't really talk about it publicly while casey. does

all that being said, I don't really see any reason why casey wouldn't still win that 2007 title pretty handily, which brings us on to 2008. marc goes off halfway through to get his arm fixed, so no tricky title fight questions there. MY main question is whether he mimics valentino in switching to bridgestones. (irl!dani was still on michelins for like. most of the season until they pissed him off so bad he made the switch, which basically made a bunch of riders copy him and kinda brought about the single tyre era lol.) I think he does! bit awkward with michelin (as it was for valentino), but I reckon he'd also subscribe to the principle of wanting to take on his rivals on equal footing - and even if the tyres don't make as much of a difference as valentino says, at least everyone's in the same boat. so maybe that already kinda kills off the michelins at the start of 2008... and it's almost an act of silent solidarity, like marc has had an on and off enough 2007 that he's not fully on top of where he can make the michelins work and where he can't, and honda's telling him to stick with what he's got, but he's looked at what valentino's doing and gone. eh. if he can't do it then maybe it is a better idea to switch, so it's like an unspoken way of showing that he does kinda trust valentino's judgement... (I'm aware the two people still reading this likely don't give a shit about this, but I swear the tyre thing was a big enough deal that it does have major characterisation repercussions.) so valentino takes that title. you kinda assume marc would have considerably better results on that honda, certainly doesn't just have a single podium, hopefully gets a win somewhere. who knows

I do however have one specific suggestion for 2022-inspired drama

marc takes out defending champion and eventual 2008 runner-up casey lap one of his comeback race. valentino sends him flowers

brief interlude to talk about rivals!

again, think the main thing with biaggi is that it just takes a bit of attention away from the whole thing... the feud still happens because it's a rivalry between two italians that gets a lot of press hype, and valentino still doesn't shy away from pissing biaggi off - but there's still less of a spotlight on it. and yeah, wouldn't just be valentino who gets into some feisty exchanges with biaggi, looking at biaggi's track record

I feel bad for doing sete dirty up until now, so as the number one sete gibernau scholar currently active on this website (and quite possibly any website), I do need to address the sete question. the thing is, right, the appeal of the sete rivalry in canon is that it's kinda like. valentino fighting his internal demons. trying to figure out the honda thing. fighting sete who is a way of externalising the internal demons. inevitably, having a straightforward number one enemy and friend and rival and object of his obsessions does kinda distract from sete? who has to play the third man role in that dynamic, and finds it tougher to asset himself in any title fights (especially if we give 2004 to marc in a fairly straightforward manner)

I think sete would still have dramatic on-track battles with both of them! but it's also different if those fights don't have quite the same Implications, because the media narrative around them ends up being completely different. sete isn't being used to judge whether valentino is washed or not, basically

valentino/sete friendship saved!!!!

maybe sete wins the 2006 title for gresini in this timeline idk. sorry sete unfortunately I don't think u get cursed in this timeline :(

and now to the most important question: does casey prefer marc or valentino before he joins the premier class? so u can kinda go both ways on this... on the one hand, I think casey is more directly inspired by marc's style. also, he's a big fan of dominance, and the way this works out in my head is that marc does have more 'dominant' wins than valentino where he just comfortably gaps the field

then again... valentino does tend to go that extra step on the interpersonal stuff, is a bit friendlier with a bunch of riders including the up-and-comers, just generally more outgoing than marc is. (yes, I realise marc being more closed-off is partly the aftereffects of sepang 2015, but it's also a vibe idk. valentino is aggressively a people person, marc is charismatic but is really only interested in about four people at any given time.) plus, you've got the australian connection via valentino's crew chief, and vale probably does have a somewhat better reputation than marc in terms of being a dickhead on-track?

I reckon casey is fairly neutral on this rivalry and cites them both as inspirations in the generic sense, but does get on with valentino a touch better before they become rivals

he does end up kinda hating them both

valentino subconsciously probably does benefit from the emergence of casey as someone he can actually focus some negative energy on in marc's semi absence. gives him some fire again... gets him out of his funk... at heart he's a hater

maybe casey's relationship with valentino is a little better than irl because valentino is no longer the sole representative of everything that's wrong with the sport. like, you still get mad about laguna, right, but then you're also being crashed out by marc on the first lap of his post-injury comeback a couple of races later... like I said. he hates them both

casey already wants to unionise along age lines irl, in this universe he's lobbying for a new rule to force riders to retire at age 27

dani's a fun one, because inevitably he does kinda have a rough time of this scenario. first of all, he's not really honda's golden boy in the same way any more. you've already got marc. second of all, it's not completely implausible marc would've quietly tried and failed to block dani from joining the team at all

I actually think if you put those two respective versions of marc and dani against each other... more beef? puig surely becomes a bit of a nightmare in that team, even more than irl, constant ugly press briefings and insinuations that marc has developed this bike to shit (obviously would be ironic given what a marc... propagandist? puig became in irl post-2020 but y'know)

kinda like a worse version of the dani/hayden dynamic that's also a fusion with marc's dynamic with his post-2020 teammates, where it's just interpersonally quite cold and frigid and there's a lot of scrapping about who gets to lead the team in bike development. not ACTIVELY hostile 'let's kill each other on-track' but not really good vibes

is jorge lorenzo a marc fan in this universe? .... or. actually. is he more likely to be a proper valentino fan? canonically, the being a biaggi fan thing was a bit of contrarianism from jorge - but if you're going to be contrarian against the guy who is winning everything in this universe, it'd primarily be against marc. also, presumably a lot of his immediate circle would root for marc on the basis of national loyalty, so maybe that... could push him in valentino's direction?

on the flip side, if valentino is more popular, maybe he goes marc. god knows, maybe he'd still be a biaggi fan, but I kinda feel like this version of motogp in the noughties you have to choose a side. I think you can make a case for either direction

not that it really matters... if we're still slotting jorge into valentino's team, he was more committed to keeping that relationship respectful than with his other rivals, which.... uh. hate to say it, but I reckon you could give marc and jorge early beef too?

kinda depends, because there's only an overlap of two races where marc is back and before jorge is crashing himself to pieces in his rookie season, so he'd have to strike FAST. then again, he managed to piss off both dani and casey during that time period! he's efficient!!

still, long term jorge's number one priority remains valentino, and that's also where the more serious drama would likely originate

anyways!! one more year and then we're 'up to date'. honestly, there's no elegant way to integrate 2009 and 2023, so just do whatever really. the issue here is obviously the honda... which did have some proper gremlins in 2009, but like, normal gremlins not 2023 honda gremlins. obviously, if marc injures himself a bunch, he's not in the title fight, but presumably he's not injuring himself as much and not as reckless in frustration if he's not on that bloody murder honda. you could have him play the sepang 2015-lite role in the jorge/valentino title fight? I seem to remember the commentators at some point in 2009 saying that valentino had talked about how dani might end up playing a significant role in the title fight by way of like, taking points from the others in crucial places (something like that, I'm sure he phrased in a way that sounds less condescending). irl 2009 is a bit meh as a season apart from like. seven interesting races. (jerez le mans mugello catalunya sachsenring phillip island sepang iirc, and three of those are wet races.) so adding in extra marc marquez would probably spice up the product at least a little bit? a fit marc would presumably be in that title fight but y'know, given the yamaha was the best bike that year (apart from maybe the ducati, casey seems to think that was the best bike they ever made but who knows), maybe it still ends up being very much an intra-yamaha war. not super committed to any particular title fight scenario that season idk

and on the interpersonal relationship post-2006:

man the aliens getting involved does make it more complicated. over the course of his career, valentino generally doesn't really deliberately escalate feuds when he's not fighting someone directly for a title? of course there's a very obvious exception to this rule who is relevant here

I think to both of them it's still the Special Rivalry, even though valentino does not embrace it to the same extent as marc does. but subconsciously he still does embrace it...

they do have this fun thing where they very clearly race each other differently than they do anyone else (excepting days when valentino has something special cooked up for casey)

realistically obviously these on-track battles happen less because we are now in a dire dire era for racing that can't entirely be blamed on the riding styles of the other three aliens. but like I'm sure they still manage twice a year at least to cook up something fun

I've turned this around in my head a few times now and I... just don't really see valentino starting shit with marc during this era? and because he is a bit more the active instigator in that dynamic, but he'd be more inclined to brush off whatever shit marc is sending his way... I kinda think they'd be fine here? if anything, you might get to this slightly absurd place where it essentially mimics the 2013-14 vale/marc dynamic where they do low-key back each other up whenever a dispute rocks up. deeply confusing to anyone who has been around to see the years and years of relentless toxicity to see them repeatedly publicly agreeing like this

but like? if the other aliens (especially casey and dani) complained about marc and valentino's riding style...? hey maybe we get some good old-fashioned generational warfare, marc and valentino both going fuck them kids

also again as a baseline dynamic, they are fond of each other... they may have a lot of problems, but the interpersonal chemistry isn't one of them. if this is a period in which valentino is racking up a couple more titles and marc isn't, obviously this would be like. deeply distressing to marc. but also again I do feel you'd need two parties to escalate this feud again and I just don't think valentino would?

world peace era

kinda the question, right... irl you have 2018 as a new nadir and then the relationship edges back towards civility in 2019, minus isolated spats... and then you have enforced separation by way of covid/injury and that's kinda it for their interpersonal interactions. but in this universe, they do just... keep interacting... also they have so much more history with each other! less hero worship less active betrayal but more just them being teenagers who got drunk together a lot. they'd figure it out again imo!! it's still weird and loaded because they're both ultra competitive, but at the end of the day throwing in a bunch of other rivals into the mix makes them think about how maybe they do actually like each other a whole lot

and the injury does spook valentino... marc was suddenly gone... marc keeps hurting himself... canonically, valentino does show some real concern about marc's antics in 2012 - and okay, here valentino isn't the older one and isn't as traumatised and still believes in his own immortality a little more, but he's still not marc. and marc makes a stupid, reckless decision, and he leaves valentino... given how long they have been friends in this universe, it's just about enough of a scare that it maybe prompts valentino to reevaluate that relationship just a teensy bit? not enough to hold too firm in the face of competitive pressures, but enough to make valentino worry a little more about marc hurting himself than he's worried about marc being the biggest star in their world or their legacies being tied too closely together or whatever... and marc does infuriate him in this, but he does also care...

after this, you would have to get more creative with this universe. valentino breaks his leg, I guess. obviously, marc is not riding a satellite ducati. does valentino still go to ducati in this universe? who wins any of the titles going forward? do you really want to steal any of jorge's titles? what about casey? what happens when we hit the 2013 onwards stretch? idk I'll revisit this in three years time to compare and contrast with what happens irl in marc's timeline (psst since he's currently as old as vale was in 2010.... casey/marc teammate feud starts next year....?) and decide how to forcibly graft that onto this timeline. I'm not really attached to specific title numbers.... going forwards, you can have them compete 4eva - fuck the other aliens - or have only marc win titles or neither of them wins any more titles and that's that. who's to say!

CONCLUDING THOUGHTS

so... like... what does this alternate universe change? obviously there's a bunch of cool on-track battles that would've been neat to see. they're both just fun racers to watch - with very different styles that match up very nicely - and of course the thought of both of them in their prime slugging it out week after week is tantalising in itself. I do think in general, valentino doesn't match marc's aggression as much as he assen 2015's his way through his problems... but also, you'd get some fun 'wow you've both taken each other out' races where both feel like they can't get away with yielding to the other. also, one of my favourite things about sports rivalries is how the way they engage with each other changes over time, how each new encounter inevitably in conversation with all the past fights they've had. in this universe you end up with a bigger sample size inevitably than irl (though honestly the irl one compares pretty positively with a lot of rivalries this century in terms of quality of on-track competition), plus it's over a larger time span. what do they learn from each other? what tricks do they pick up? how does that dynamic change over time? the most obvious shift informed by real life is that [2000 -> 2001] [2014 -> 2015] you go from marc winning the proper battles to valentino winning the proper battles, which helps bring about the marc head loss that season as valentino gets more comfortable with the bikes and the premier class and marc struggles for the first time. where you go from there... again, tbh it's dealer's choice, but the key thing is you have that dynamic of constantly revisiting old haunts and old battles and building on their history more and more and more... it's also super formative and constant for both of them in a way that none of their actual irl rivalries can quite be, like something that caries through from 125cc to 250cc to the premier class?? kids crashing into each other in 1996 and revisiting that same track in 2009 to fight it out again? they end up just sharing a lot with each other that completely eclipses any other on-track rivalry

but there's something... hm, I do really like the generational aspect of marc/valentino and to me it's one of the most interesting aspects of that rivalry, so I'm almost loathe to strip them of that, which is obviously why I've written a reasonable length tumblr post about this. when you make them peers, marc cannot steal valentino's moves, he can't supplant him, he won't have this hero worship that makes him construct himself in valentino's image. you kinda want to find a way to maintain aspects of that dynamic, right, where marc still sees valentino as like. the coolest thing ever. and doesn't model himself after him as much as admire him, sometimes from closer and sometimes from afar... valentino's always making racing fun - which it obviously is to marc too, marc's also a cheery kid, but they are a bit different in how... y'know, marc's constantly inventing new ways to overcome the pain barrier whereas valentino looks at all the more unpleasant aspects of racing and goes 'no thank you <3' (one of my favourite anecdotes about young valentino is what a wimp he was about the rain, which never quite went away). also they come from different enough backgrounds, valentino with his deeply laissez faire parents where he had to grow up quickly himself and occasionally parent them, marc with his deeply not laissez faire parents where the growing up is a bit more about the money of it all but he's still fairly sheltered and living the Professional Child Athlete Lifestyle... and whenever they're not actually racing each other, marc can still construct a bit of an idealised version of valentino in his own head, where he doesn't as much want to be him as he wants to be around him. the reflected glow of all that joy

you tease out the most interesting elements of valentino's side of the equation by going all in on the resentment imo. marc might not be replacing him in this universe, the stuff he 'has' in this universe is fundamentally stuff valentino can take from him if he's good enough... but marc's just everywhere, isn't he? always a little ahead, always seen as the next big thing, burns bright very very early. valentino wants his own legacy! he wants to be his own guy! but he's also a storyteller, and there is a story to be told here... one about how he's just a girl, in a big big world, taking on the big bad marc marquez. so in his head he'd just love to get rid of marc, but also he gets to this weird place where he kinda needs him.... he ends up defining himself against marc, both in the public's eye and in his own mind. they're both each other's biggest points of reference, to where they're eventually each other's only reference. and just like in real life, valentino never quite escapes how all this resentment stems from self-recognition... it's resentment based on how similar they are and how unfair it is that there's someone who's this good who's this much a match for valentino... all because they're similar enough in their approach to competition, grinning while twisting in the knives, vicious in the heat of battle... and because they do both fundamentally want to have fun! so sometimes valentino might love to hate marc but mostly he just loves to fight him...

anyway. what would this timeline adjustment actually add beyond a bunch of on-track battles? I think the main thing you get here is the kinda.... intimacy... from having been teenagers at the same time, having been given the time and space to actually build up a relationship as peers that constantly gets chipped at and reconstructed again and again and again. they kinda function as each other's foils, which they do anyway but here it's from a position of equality. irl, you actually have to jump through some major narrative hoops to even put them both in a position where they'd consider becoming friends (thanks real life for jumping through those hoops). you don't have to do that in this universe! valentino did get more cynical about being both friends and rivals over time (or at least that's my theory, see here) - but when he's a teenager, he's not going to be cautious in the same way! if he likes marc, which the evidence we have suggests he very much would, he'd just be friends with him! the normal way! valentino isn't prepared for the entire thing turning ugly because he's never done this before, there's no past experiences he'd be drawing on here and would be inspired by in starting feuds with his friends-turned-enemies. they'd both be young and innocent and kinda get into the process of feuding in an organic manner, as it should be

and, yeah, the other element is that valentino... well. look. he's really not the fully formed package at the start of his career, including when it comes to media manipulation. but it's always in there somewhere... there's something fun about this being baby's first feud! irl he kinda stumbles into the biaggi one, right, where he says some shady stuff about biaggi and then he's like 'wait a moment the journalists actually report on what I tell them??' and then it escalates from there. very trial and error! in this universe, valentino can trial and error this feud, where he just says some kinda feisty stuff to the press about how he doesn't always want to be compared to marc marquez and maybe they should be asking marc about him, y'know, the cocky little shit - and the public animosity comes and goes in waves where they have one serious spat in the lower categories, then patch it up again, then a proper feud, then it gets better again, then more feuding, etc etc etc.... and in all of this, they're both very into using the media as the way to litigate this feud - especially when they really aren't speaking to each other. and valentino's occasionally quite deliberately drawing the public to his side to make marc's life less pleasant, which he gets better and better at as the years pass. valentino does help turn marc into a bit of a heel, someone the public loves to hate and to root against. (though, again, it is very very important to me you get some crowds booing valentino.) marc's just too good! too vicious! and unlucky to have valentino, the people's princess and poor wee underdog, as his primary rival! but even then, because valentino is younger and less jaded, there's also a level of hostility that he would shy away from. and the fact that they're so inescapable to each other also helps the feud die down each time. because you don't want every single podium until the end of time to be unbearably awkward...

in a way. the direct competition does make things more vicious but more straightforwardly so? and in a more equal way. broadly speaking they do have a better shot of figuring things out in this world imo! maybe valentino finds a qatar 2004 equivalent to burn everything to the ground, but I reckon he flirts with that line without quite crossing it... they have more argentina 2018 equivalents, stuff where one of them (probably marc) does something insane on the track and one of them (probably valentino) says something insane off it... but that's a bit more straightforward! what really makes sepang 2015 so fucked is that it's not a direct title fight between the two of them, like that's why it's the wound they can't heal from! irl it's almost like a commentary on the age gap, right, that they're barely overlapping in competitive windows and how the feud itself can't stem from something so direct... it had to happen in a more roundabout way that allows it to curdle into something far crueller and far more bitter... but the moment you make them peers, then it's all fair, really - a lot of the stuff they do to each other is more 'acceptable' and just part of being rivals and easier to eventually look past. (cf how they're both mostly still focused on sepang 2015 to this day, not argentina 2018.) for better or for worse, they're trapped with each other... irl, part of the unequal power dynamics stem from the simple fact that valentino was integral to marc's childhood but marc wasn't to valentino's. marc can't escape valentino not only because of their shared history, but also because valentino was such a big part of growing up, of figuring out who he'd become... hero worship as a formative process - where however marc feels about valentino now, there's still elements of his identity as a racer and as a person that are inexorably linked to valentino. but here, when they're peers, neither of them can escape that - and when nostalgia comes calling, it does so for both of them. valentino can't just dismiss marc as part of his story, because marc has managed to so thoroughly make himself a part of it. which can make everything worse between them too... and they know each other so thoroughly they'll figure out some nicely brutal ways to hurt each other, again and again and again. they're so similar, so combustive, stuck with each other for so long that they can trial so many flavours of cruelty. but hey, let's be optimistic, just this once. they can't escape each other so they might as well learn to forgive each other