#Huntlow rant

[peculiarnation4u]

Why (i think) Huntlow confuses some people and myself (Very long post)

I don’t hate Huntlow, don’t even think it's bad. Felt the need to say that right off the bat for those of you who just saw the title and assumed the worst. So put your “Leave Huntlow alone!”, and “God I thought I was the only one who hated this ship” comments away, that’s not what this post is for. I made this to try to explain my complicated feelings towards this ship and how they came to be specifically why I feel the way I do. I also hope to shed some light as to why people may not be as fond of this ship as the other main two we have in the series. Now i only mean to give my thoughts, I can not speak for the bulk of the fandom and people who don’t like the ship, but maybe I can enlighten those who don't understand why the hate is here, and help the haters contain and focus the reasons they don’t like it outside of bias and petty ones. I'm also making this with the sole hope that'll i'll be proven wrong in For The Future and that my arguments will be invalidated (I don't believe you should ever hate a ship, just writing)

Huntlow, or Winter as some people call it which i refuse to do because like, winter is an already established word. Why would you name a ship after something that already exists and is used in daily conversation outside of the fandom? Isn't there a tumblr thread about why it’s a bad idea to name ships after already existing concepts.

Back to where I was, Huntlow is the ship between willow and hunter, established as canon in Labyrinth Runners. Despite that, the ship existed in the fandom prior to being confirmed and really started during the episode Any Sport In A Storm and fans of it only having to wait about a month till said confirmation. Unfortunately, it being confirmed somewhat divided a portion of the fandom with both sides being convinced they’re the minority. One of the main arguments against Huntlow was that it was rushed, which I don't actually agree with and will explain why later. Even so, it was still massively popular as Hunter’s only real understandable ship partner. With the four he had prior not really being well received by a majority of the fandom, Willow seemed like the best option handed to us on a silver platter and it wasn’t just a fanon ship either like most of them. That paired with the fandom eager to see Hunter get some sort of happiness and it not having any of the toxic tropes that usually come with teen mlw relationships in media it seemed like another hit from The Owl House relationship department and an obvious outcome. But was it?

Now like most of the fandom, I was right there watching all these episodes come out every week and the fan’s reactions to them as well as my own. I was personally really fond of Any Sport In A Storm as Willow, as well as Gus, was one of my favorite characters when the series started and I was happy that she finally got an episode or a moment to shine that didn’t feel overshadowed by Amity or Lumity. A little salty that it took being significant to Hunter for the fandom to finally give Gus and Willow the time of day but beggars can’t be choosers.

While watching the episode, one thing I and many others knew just from this episode alone was that the fandom was gonna start shipping Hunter and Willow, it was inevitable. However I wrote this off as the fandom just shipping as it does and didn’t pay it any mind, especially since I didn't see any of their interactions in the episode as romantic. So when Labyrinth Runners came out and confirmed that Hunter had a crush on Willow, my reaction was

“......what?”

No really, it was “what?”, I was confused. I mean I thought it was cute and was happy that Hunter had developed positive feelings for once, but seriously I didn’t see this coming at all, I was surprised, and that’s not a good thing. I wasn’t happy it was confirmed, I wasn’t even dreading it as either would imply I knew this was going to happen, but i didn’t, and i can explain why.

Now I will admit that I'm definitely biased. As you may have guessed, I'm not the fondest of Huntlow. But furthermore, I'm not the best at understanding what may lead two people to develop feelings for one in media and irl *cough*A-spec*cough*. So if Hunter or Willow had some sort of connection that I didn’t pick up on, that's on me. Though even with that drawback, I still think i’m not completely crazy when I squint at the writing

I mentioned before that Hunter's crush on Willow confused me, from a writing standpoint at least, so in order to understand it we have to look at what came before it, their meeting in Any Sport In A Storm. Call me crazy but this episode wasn’t enough to convince me Hunter would gain feelings, again from a writing perspective, not an emotional one. In terms of emotions I could completely get why he’d find her appealing, it was just poor at setting up that it was going to happen.

I think the main reason why is because there was no emphasis on their relationship specifically. Willow spoke to Hunter as she would any other member and as she did any other member. Gus got in a moment of speaking too. Hunter as well since he is shown interacting with and liking every member.

This downplays Willow and Hunter's presumed relationship and it raises the question of “why her?”, since Hunter showed that he liked everyone on the team equally, granted he put more focus on Willow but that was because she was the captain.

Hell, everything Hunter did with or to Willow, he did with or to Gus in the same episode, (meeting, complimenting their skills, a sad moment, a deep moment where they showcase their inner thoughts) he even goes on to have more moments and even an episode with gus.

Actually he had an episode with everyone except Willow , again I don’t count Any Sport In A Storm as it felt more like a group relationship episode than Willow and Hunter specifically, you wouldn’t consider Wing It Like Witches a Luz and Amity episode would you? (actually knowing this fandom, y'all probably would).

All this does is make Hunter and Willow’s chemistry look weaker by comparison, and only raises my questions. Hunter has more in common with everyone else on the team than Willow. The only thing they really had, that was stated and not assumed by the fandom, was that half a witch comment, which I want to talk about for a moment.

I remember hearing that line when I first watched the episode, back before the ship was really a thing, and even then I thought that they pulled this out of their ass the moment I heard it. Like it makes sense on a surface level but then you start thinking about it and it feels a little off.  Like Willow was called half a witch because she wasn’t good at magic, but Hunter can’t do magic at all, so would the term still apply. Where did he even hear it from, I find it hard to believe that a high up establishment like  the emperor’s coven would use playground insults, and Hunter couldn’t have just called himself it as we know this guy doesn’t know anything about slang. But all that is nitpicking, it just feels like it doesn’t hold as much weight for Hunter as it does Willow. We know Willow has been called it multiple times throughout the series and things adjacent to it, we see how she’s struggled with it and why she was called it. But Hunter doesn’t get any of that and I guess it lessens the impact, which is concerning since this is supposed to be their big connecting moment.

I feel like this could’ve been fixed if Hunter being called half a witch was brought up in an earlier episode, maybe when he was talking to Luz, that way the audience already knew this fact and didn’t learn at the same time Willow did.  Because at the moment, Hunter and Willow’s chemistry feels a little dry. There's a reason Gus is Hunter’s best friend and Hunter hasn’t spoken to Willow since the episode they met.

“But Hunter has a crush on her and he’s nervous so he’s not going to talk as much” . And that I understand, even noticing that it was a parallel to how Amity acted around Luz, and it was cute, but that’s the thing, cute, not efficient. It was sweet at first but then I started fearing that he actually wouldn’t talk to her ever again. It’s reminiscent of, and I don't want to compare the two because Huntlow is a thousand times better, Adrienette from MLB. In that show our mc Marinette has a crush on perfect model Adrien however is basically incapable of speaking to him without tripping over her words or backing out. At first it was cute how nervous she got but then it became detrimental to their relationship because she was unable to make a move and even the audience started to notice. How were we supposed to support this relationship or believe it’ll be ok if the mc had to get dragged to it by her friends or couldn’t do anything on her own, and Huntlow is giving me the same feelings. Nowhere near as bad as it just started and didn’t drag out but with only three (at the time) episodes left, i was paranoid.

Another way to explain my disposition is to simply look at the other two canon ships in the show, Lumity and Raeda and how they handled their ships. Earlier I stated that I didn't think Huntlow was rushed and I still stand by that. You can tell because it follows the same pattern as Raeda and Lumity, that the two characters become friends and almost immediately after, one of them catches feelings. Actually Eda got a crush on Raine faster than Hunter did Willow, both in story and irl. So it’s not rushed, however it does have an issue that led people to believe it was rushed, the aforementioned lack of chemistry and talking to one another before the crush came. Luz and Amity, and Raine and Eda were repeatedly shown talking to each other specifically and enjoying the other’s presence as well as getting to know them, Huntlow didn’t have that.

“But the show got shortened, they didn't have enough time to give Hunter and Willow their own episodes and moments”. And to that i say you’re right, but why even put in a ship if you know you won’t have the time to flesh it out. Also I can only agree with that statement so much when we’re constantly shown Hunter interacting with and having moments with Gus after their introduction.

Honestly I had a theory that Huntlow was always planned to happen back when they had more episodes, but then the show got shortened, however they still wanted to keep that so they left it in, which i'd be completely fine with.

It just feels off y'know, Raeda and Lumity were so good at avoiding tropes and doing something different. Amity could’ve just remained a stuck up bully or befriended Luz and become the angsty Lancer, but she didn’t. Their relationship could’ve been dragged out or Luz could’ve never shown signs of being interested until the show ended and they got together, but it didn’t. Luz and Amity could’ve gotten into stupid drama or jealousy after getting together, but they didn’t.

Raeda follows suit too. Raine could’ve just been the shitty ex who we forget about an episode later or they could’ve just been used for sexual tension instead of showing how they and Eda care for each other. Even more so, the reason why they broke up wasn’t left vague and it was actually worked on, instead of most exes tropes where the audience is never told why they broke up, or the two characters get back together without the initial reason they broke up being fixed. On top of that, all of their moments and episodes actually served the plot, world building or character development and it never felt like the plot stopped or like these moments could be taken out.

Raeda and Lumity did so many things differently, so it feels weird watching Huntlow come in and repeat so many tropes from media with teens as its main characters.The only thing I think Huntlow did differently was have a plus sized girl in the relationship, which I really like since plus sized girls usually aren't seen as desirable in media. Not that tropes are bad or that the ones Huntlow did were bad, it just makes me squint. Huntlow following so many tropes in comparison to Lumity and Raeda, plus flapjack (hunter’s closest friend for half a season) dying, plus Hunter being the character the writers like to torture, plus the weirdness of how it was written, makes me nervous because I really hope Huntlow isn’t going to be used just to hurt Hunter, mostly cause of fan backlash. Even I'd be a little upset if I got dragged along on this ride for nothing.

Now despite all of the things I've complained about, I still think Huntlow is fine, however I do think it could be better and fix the issues I mentioned earlier. Now the best fix would be to simply give them an episode, but we obviously don’t have time for that so the next would be to give them more moments together. Moments where Hunter is actually speaking and Willow isn’t doing all the work. Or give them more things in common, canonical things not stuff assumed by the fandom. Huntlow can definitely work, I even believe that that was the reason we were all able to overlook the negatives simply due to the ship having a lot of potential. (I really think that For the Future will give us this)

I have hope that my opinion will be swayed in these last two episodes and that my confusion will be put to rest. I feel like I'm missing something, like there was some sort of connection I didn't see, and if I didn't, then that's on me.

[ashanimus]

For @lollytea, fanart of her fic The Atlas and the Avid Reader!

[lucent-roase]

NOTHING brings me greater happiness than a silly cute drawing of s2 Hunter and Willow kissing. like s2 huntlow is my absolute favorite canon divergence trope. AAAAH

[yourhighness6]

Can I Talk About How Much I Love Willow Park for a Moment?

I've talked before about how Hunter and Luz are my favorite characters in toh but she's probably my third favorite and sometimes I literally want to worship the ground her little animated boots walk on. For one, she's Asian-coded and plus-sized, which is rare enough (the only other example I can think of is Glimmer from She-ra, who I also love), but she's actually well-written and complex in the way a lot of diverse characters aren't. She's canonically pansexual, which is a community that gets so little representation its heartbreaking. On top of that, she's in a healthy relationship with someone of the opposite gender, which isn't often seen with bi and pan characters. She's an extremely powerful witch but she struggles with self-esteem issues. She's allowed to be stressed and exceed her limits and break down and have emotions. She's strong and independent without putting other people down. She's kind and compassionate without being a pushover. She's reliable and tough but has limits. She's cute and girly but also a little gremlin. She has an absolutely wonderful character arc and helps save the world. I love her so much I can't even express it.

[asterias-corner]

happy pride month shoutout to my fav queers! ❤️

[tmblrofshame]

*raises hand* i wanna hear your huntlow thoughts. elaborate

YES MY TIME HAS COME

to start off i need to clarify that most of these opinions are based on the understanding that if disney hadn’t cut season 3 we could have achieved enlightenment, but alas…

i think that with the time they had they did really good on developing the relationship! people who don’t get it or hate on it simply for being “rushed” are missing one key point: they don’t get into a relationship by the finale; we don’t know what the timeline of their relationship is so there’s no way for it to be too rushed!

(so i will be talking about them in the context of mutual crushes and not dating btw)

anyways moving on from the disclaimers and what not i think it’s one of my favorite relationships in the show, because it is not only cute, but i think it lets two characters who have been known to hold in emotions let them out and rely on each other. they are very much equals and work well together.

though i am someone who commonly has criticisms of shows for just pairing characters off for the sake of pairing them off and not growing the character, i only feel like that slightly about these two.

in willows case, i feel like she has had a lot of growth since the first season (haha plant pun) but obviously still has a way to go. she still struggles to express her emotions and feels the need to put up a facade of reliability. but hunter is someone she can rely on, and he makes that very clear!

hunter (despite the fandom-wide opinion) is not a baby. he’s strong and resilient despite his trauma and hardship. he obviously has issues but he is improving! him having a dorky little crush on willow makes sense, and gives him teenage experiences he missed out on in the emperors coven!

the thing i dislike about them is less the actual relationship the two of them have, and more the fanbases inability to separate the two now.

willow is a character who seems to never get love despite being an extremely well written deuteragonist who lifts up the other characters. she deserves appreciation on her own, not just because her and hunter are together in the timeskip!

and same with hunter, people need to stop portraying him as a character who just needs love to be fixed. pre-timeskip he definitely had to work on improving his mental health, and you just can’t write that down as “oh he and willow are in love so he’s better now”

i feel like the two of them commonly get made out to be this pairing of a broken male character and a nurturing female character when they’re not! they’re multifaceted, well written characters!

besides all the frustration with the mischaracterization, i think they’re cute and make sense together. whether you like them or not i think it makes sense for both of their development and they deserved more screen time fuck you disney.

EDIT BC I REMEMBERD SMTH: as someone who is aspec i feel like sometimes the aroace hunter headcanons can take away from his trauma and it comes off as “oh well he’s mentally ill so he can’t love someone” BUT MAYBE THATS JUST ME

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

actually one thing that I think makes it the true reason I dislike huntlow as a ship is that it's not foreshadowed at all like how lumity was. both Luz and Amity expressly talk about romance in SOME way, even not in relation to eachother. Luz's wizard dream having a prince she was pseudo-into. Amity's diary and mentions of romance. both had clear romantic wishes, even if it was among the other ones such as be a witch and have a life outside of the blight name. willow and hunter *never* speak about love or anything like that, and if Hunter's like. aim was to have Belos love him, or *anyone* love him, I think it'd actually make the arc make sense and if Willow had that insecurity with being a teenage witch with no date or love to be found it'd make sense and I'd actually SEE huntlow being viable rather than shoehorned in where it made both of their personalities make zero sense for the scenes they were both in together

exactly! i always headcanoned willow as aroace because she literally shows no romantic interest in anyone? even her interest in hunter seemed so artificial. she just blushes and tells him he means a lot to her and… that's it? then they proceed to blush whenever they're around each other and there's literally nothing else to indicate a romantic interest.

meanwhile hunter seems less "in love" with willow, and more like he's worshipping her. it's a little reminiscent of how amity treated luz at first but even then, i feel like luz and amity were more on equal footing. we still see amity talking to luz casually, while all hunter does is blush and stutter around willow. i get it, young love and all that. but considering that hunter used to worship and idolize his abusive uncle, i can't help but feel like this kind of relationship is not right for him. i wouldn't say willow is a stand-in for belos or anything but i just don't think their dynamic works.

not to mention, both characters act horribly out of character with each other. willow was this kind but strong girl who only attacked or fought people who deserved it, but she's somewhat forceful and dominant with hunter. (i wouldn't go as far as to say toxic, i don't think she's abusive towards him or anything.)

meanwhile, hunter was this sassy and sardonic child prodigy who was trained in combat from a young age, but somehow he's always a damsel in distress when he's with willow. i have to clarify, i have no problem with women saving men or being stronger than men. but it just doesn't make sense for these characters because hunter isn't just some guy, he has supposedly gone through extremely torturous training and is a very proficient fighter. meanwhile, willow is just a normal highschooler who happens to be skilled at plant magic. how is she the stronger one here?

and of course, the fact that this ship was just shoved into the narrative with no development or chemistry just doesn't sit right with me. no hate to huntlow shippers but i really don't understand how people don't see how rushed and underdeveloped it is.

[childlikegoblinqueen]

Bittersweet Symphony Writers Notes!

Are calling cards still a thing?

“Is there someone you should be calling to let them know where you are?” Luz asked. “I know you needed a payphone last night, but you can use ours. If its long distance though, I’ll lend you a calling card.”

This slow burn is going to burn SLOWLY.

Hunter’s been thrust head first into a place where he is decidedly OUT of place — and it offers him a lot of inner turmoil and maybe some opportunity.

The lore around his past and upbringing will simmer under the pot for a while as will his growing connections and meetings with Willow.

Dare I say they will have a few missed connections before they begin building their relationship, and Hunter will be slowly connecting with the people around Willow before they are insular in one another’s lives.

The first Belos chapter will drop on Thanksgiving. @threegoblinart ‘s art for that one makes me freaking FERAL.

Aside from hinting at Hunter’s past, there’s going to be some world building around the connection between the Nocedas and the Clawthornes (and the Parks, the Porters… the Blights a bit too).

Camila and King are sharing space with Camila and Luz (Vee being away at Sarah Lawrence college — more about her later.)

So … calling cards! I’m not sure if they still exist. Back in the 90s before cellphone ownership became common, pay phones were a prepaid debit card where you’d dial into a specific number and get to make a phone call for cheap.

Long distance calls even between counties cost a lot of money — no zoom, no discord or Skype. You wanted to speak to someone outside of a ten mile radius it cost MONEY. A lot of it.

Phone cards could also work like burner phones. If a call was made it wouldn’t be charged on your phone bill. Or that was the going rumor. I never used one that way myself.

Hope you enjoyed the chapter!

[dejaroze]

Ive Seen some weird shit today so here’s a little rant, aimed towards the TOH shipping community but can be used for any fandom-

Just because you ship one thing, doesn’t mean you can criticize other ships for no specific reasons.

I love a TON of ships, I don’t really stick to one and that’s the fun of it!

Here’s the thing, I know majority of the fandom that ships lumity is against lunter, I personally think both ships are fine, even though I prefer lumity way more.

Saying hunter and Luz are siblings is a HC, which I do believe, I love imagining them being siblings. THEY ARE NOT BLOOD RELATED, NOR IS HUNTER ADOPTED BY CAMILA. Hunter and Luz are both bisexual! Just because Luz is dating a girl, doesn’t automatically make her lesbian.

So yes, I see them as sibling coded. This doesn’t mean I go attack lunter shippers and accuse them of being pro shippers.

THIS GOES BOTH WAYS!

I see many lunter shippers trashing on lumity shippers, most for pure pettiness. A few of these people also trash on huntlow, which is a ship I adore but, everyone has their opinions of course. ( I personally HC Willow and hunter in a qpr )

CONCLUSION

Do not attack others for shipping things you don’t ship! ( unless it’s illegal, then yeah that’s weird asf )

[you-have-been-frizzled]

i can’t believe that Dana managed to fix the Huntlow in the EXACT way i wanted it to be fixed

i was all worried about it because Willow’s entire character was just helping people. not only was her holding things in to help people was addressed, it was addressed by hunter.

[haystarlight]

I wanted to submit this to the-owl-house-takes but they don't take asks anymore and are ending the blog.

Anyway, I think I'm getting a little bit sick and tired of seeing characters act like idiots on fics and fanart where they're not together yet. Like in those getting-together fics where both characters have a crush but they're not dating yet? I'm tired of people writing the characters to be idiots at romance just to stop them from getting together.

I understand these are all neurodivergent teenagers who all have their own trauma but, at the end of the day, they're not morons. They know a few social cues, they can tell what flirting is supposed to be. I was a neurodivergent teen with problems socializing but I still knew *some things* about romance.

The character who suffers from this the most is Hunter I think. Tho Luz is a victim of it too but Hunter is the most notable. I understand that he was raised in a cult so maybe he doesn't comprehend romance as well as other teens but he's not stupid, okay? I'm tired of people writing him stupid or too socially inept to even flirt or make jokes.

Canon Hunter makes jokes all the time! I know there's a common headcanon of him being autistic but not like this, dudes.

Maybe I sound conceited when I say I think I write characters a lot better than others. I try to make them awkward crushing losers but without them looking completely socially inept. A lot of fan writers don't strike that balance.

Anyway, maybe I should just read some Established Relationship stuff for a minute.

(this is isn't directed at any specific author/artist, it's a pattern I have seen in multiple fan works by multiple people and tbh it's okay if this is how you choose to write these characters. I just don't feel like reading it anymore)

[edsheerankinnie]

Ok im gonna piss of a whole fandom w this. but here we go lol

So ive been thinking abt She-ra lately (spop specifically) and ohmy god it fucking sucks. like i get so mad anytime i remember it, like and if anyone asks me abt it im gonna warn them do NOT watch this show FOR UR OWN GOOD. unless u dont mind an entire season of fanservice AND BY FANSERVICE I DONT MEAN NUDITY OR THE ANIME KIND, ILL GIVE YALL THAT, i mean specifically how they made catradora canon w virtually no other buildup than they were raised together and ooh they hate each other ouuh ;)) enemies to lovers oouogh🫦 like if ur gonna make a ship like theirs work its gotta have some sort of proper progression w their relationship right? But no, the ENTIRE time up until MIDWAY INTO THE LAST SEASON theyre constantly at each others throats like. its not even fun at that point, it just looks weirdly abusive and toxic. And hey, while were still here, catradora in execution is Such a bad ship bc like. They were raised together. by the Same Person. not even just under the Horde, theyre literally both raised by Shadow weaver. and before their rivalry and in several flashbacks their relationship moreso implicates sisterhood than anything. like idk i dont wanna get too bold here, but it just feels a little too close to !nc3st to just put them together like that?

Omg and lets talk about Fucking SHADOW WEAVER omg. like throughout the whole show were shown and told abt how much of an abusive parental figure she was to adora and especially catra right? But then at THE LITERAL VERY END, Shadow Weaver SELFLESSLY sacrifices herself to help catra and adora save the world. SHadow Weaver, whose entire essence was her desire for Power, who betrayed her own people to obtain it. Who's only semblance of a redemption was her working with the Princesses, just because she would be in a better position of power. no remorse whatsoever for how she treated the two as kids. Nevermind her fake-out to catra that one time, in fact that scene highlights just how easily she'll manipulate those close to her to get what she wants. and u expect me to just "oh wow shadow weaver is so noble for that! This is so sad! poor catra and adora, they lost their now-good mommy!" (again, *their* mommy, eugh). Like im having a hard time believing they were able to mourn her loss like that at all. We've seen them both have very complicated feelings about Shadow weaver. Ok well to be fair we didnt actually GET to see them mourn. which IS ALSO SOMETHING I HAVE ISSUE WITH

the SPEED AT WHICH THE 5TH SEASON RAN omg i HATED IT I HATE IT SO FUCKING MUCH. SO MUCH HAPPENING IN LIKE !) EPS OMG, and on top of that WE DONT EVEN GET A PROPER CONCLUSION???? U EXPECT ME TO BE SATISFIED W THEM ENDING THE LAST EPISODE 5 MINS AFTER SAVING THE WORLD????? And ohmygod DONT EVEN GET ME STARTED ON HOW THEY SAVED THE WORLD AUGHJLFDRCRJ IT WAS SO BAD Like girl i need SOME kind of CONCLUSION, not just "yay the horde is gone! sunshine and rainbows! bye bye!" GIRL WHAT THE FUCK??! WHAT HAPPENS AFTER??? I WANNA SEE THEM REBUILD ???? I WANT A FLASH FORWARD (AND NO ADORA'S 5 SECOND VISION WHILE SEEKING THE HEART DOESNT COUNT), I WANNA SEE EVERYONE ADJUSTING TO THEIR NEW LIVES. I WANT SOME SWEET SWEET BANTER. I DONT WANT TO READ A FANFIC DEPICTING ALL THAT BC THE CREW GOT LAZY. I WANT A NICE BASE FOR ALL THAT. U GET WHAT I MEAN??!?!?

I think i should mention that i am in no way shape or form homophobic or anything, i am literally the president of the fruitcake club, ok? but the catradora kiss was probably the worst canonization of a relationship in an animated series ever, period. Like really? while Adora's half dead?? and otherwise the whole world ends if u dont?? And with only 5 minutes of runtime left ?????? I am being edged. I am being edged in the worst possible way. I hate it so much. "Dont leave me adora! I LOVE you! I ALWAYS have!!" HUHHH???? U EXPECT ME TO BELIEVE THAT????? "i love u too🥰" HUHHHHH???? GIRL WHEN DID THIS DEVELOPMENT HAPPEN??? U hung out for literally 3 DAYS and u expect me to believe u guys went from enemies to working out their issues to googoo eyes???? when there was HARDLY ANY OF THAT THERE TO BEGIN WITH???? also just the overall trope of "oh no the world is ending, if i kiss this guy it'll be saved" is sososo bad, idc if its a straight or gay couple, it is probably the most annoying trope ever. like gyattdayum i didnt know i was watching an old Disney movie. i thought this was an epic scifi my bad. Yall need a moment? Do u wanna fuck too? Maximize ur "power of love" slay so the world is extra saved? jesus christ. its the "true loves kiss" trope all over again. Like thats such a rude way to treat a ship too. I want to see it in action, i want to see real progression, ESPECIALLY bc its the main ship, not "ooh they might be gay!!11! ooh they might kiss :) oouhh" and then last second theyre like "btw theyre in love now ;)"

Like id *maybe* get it if there were time constraints like with TOH, id get it if they were like "the idea and concept were there, mr CEO wanted us to shut down the party." but from my research, they didnt really have any constraints like that. And im saying *maybe* bc like with TOH for instance, even though they were forced to cut the show in half, they still delivered everything to progress and end the show properly! They had an *afterword*! they had Lumity and Huntlow and Raeda!! And oh my god the progression of Lumity is so sweet and beautiful! we get to see their "enemy" phase, we get to see them fall for each other, we get to see them date, we get their First Kiss!! We get to see how much they care for each other!! And sure, on the flipside we dont really get to see Huntlow. But thats bc the show got cut before it could *really* take off. There was supposed to be a whole season of Willow and Hunter's hijinks while the gang was in Connecticut. There was supposed to be a whole season of the gang adjusting to Connecticut! We were supposed to see the Archivists involvement and the ultimate showdown in the 4th season!! But they had to be economical bc of the cut, right? So they made a montage of Connecticut, they made three separate, HOUR LONG episodes depicting what couldve happened in the 3rd and 4th seasons. we get to see Willow reciprocate Hunters feelings in the 2nd ep! And most importantly, we get a real conclusion!! we get to see everyone rebuild, we get to see how theyve adjusted, how their lives and relationships have changed. We get a satisfying moment for it all to sink in. we get to properly say our farewells to the characters. All loose ends are properly tied! The Owl House may not be in my top list of cartoons, but u have to admit, it has a very good and satisfying conclusion. And all that with such intense time constraints too.

Now dont get me wrong, She-ra and its characters is written incredibly well (mostly) and its LGBT/POC rep is a game-changer. Heck, i loved Scorfuma, and that was only crumbs of a side ship. And the character designs/animation/colors are absolutely gorgeous, like that is honestly what probably pulled me to watch this show. Im just disappointed in what couldve been, yk? It had so much potential. especially in its last season, it just feels like the writers had too much setup and didnt know how to resolve it. 2/10 would not recommend.

[pandoratheprocrasticreator]

dana terrace knows how fandoms work. she knows if you show ppl even the barest hint of an m/f couple, especially one involving an angsty white boy, ppl will jump on that shit like rabid dogs and itll completely overshadow whatever queer rep you want ppl to actually pay attention to. that’s why she introduced hunter the way she did. first they have an episode where luz gets kissed by a girl and it’s made clear to the audience that they’re on track to be each others love interests. and only then does she introduce hunter’s angsty blond YA love interest looking ass.

and even then they tried SUPER hard to hammer in how much hunter is NOT luz’s love interest. they make luz lean in as if she was going to kiss him and then smack him to show that she isn’t going to. and then they do that thing where hunter licks luz’s hand and luz wipes it on his face. which is something that has been memed to death with siblings. just so the audience immediately understands what kind of dynamic the show wants these two to have. if they skipped any of these steps they were worried the fandom would see luz have a close relationship with a conventionally attractive white boy and start foaming at the mouth for this ship to replace lumity. maybe if disney saw a boy and a girl who aren’t immediately sibling coded they’d also start foaming at the mouth for it to replace lumity. so the crew had to play it safe.

anyway my point is i hope the crew also knows what they’re doing with the huntlow ship. idk what they’re setting up but if the huntlow ship gets together and it’s not wedged between a full 10 minute clip of the raeda wedding and a full 10 minute clip of a sappy slice of life lumity date then every toh related tag is going to be INSUFFERABLE and i hope dana knows it.

[rocksandmirrors]

it's so funny to me that Willow and Gus both crush on wet-cat looking boys. do you think they have sleepovers where they talk about how pathetic they both are

[sailahina]

OKAY SO JUST FOUND OUT THAT IM ABOUT TO BE DESTROYED IN A FEW HOURS THANKS RILEY

[pk2317]

On shipping "erasure" in fanwork

Might as well throw some of my thoughts together here, for easy reference later. For all 5 people who may read this. Right off the bat I'm going to admit that there will be a lot of caveats included, as opposed to absolute "truths". Also I'll be using the term "queer" to encompass LGBTQIA+, if that term is something that bothers you then just be aware of that. And “straight” (in quotes) generally refers to “straight-presenting”. I'll primarily be referencing The Owl House, just because it's a point of reference that I'm very familiar with the source material and the fandom.

I want to come out right from the beginning and state clearly that *ARTISTS HAVE THE RIGHT TO CREATE WHATEVER ARTWORK THEY WANT, AND INDIVIDUALS HAVE THE RIGHT TO CONSUME WHATEVER ARTWORK THEY WANT*. Fan art, fan fiction, whatever. This is NOT an attempt to police what others do or enjoy, or an invitation to harass anyone.

With that being said, when someone makes artwork, they make decisions on what to include, or not include, and it's not unreasonable to analyze these decisions and question why they were made. Especially when those decisions are counter to established "canon" aspects of the character(s).

Shipping is one of the biggest examples of this. When you boil it down, "shipping" is focusing two (or more) characters and their relationSHIP to each other. Generally, this is going to be a romantic (and/or physical) relationship, which may (or may not) be "canon". Shipping has always existed within fandom, and it's not an inherently bad thing. It's a form of character analysis - based on what we know about Character A and Character B, how might they interact in this specific situation, or what would it be like if they were attracted to each other?

In a largely heteronormative media landscape, this can (and often is) a vehicle to explore queer relationships that otherwise aren't (or at least aren't likely to be) depicted in the source material. But, as we (finally) start to get some explicitly, canonically queer characters, we start running into the issues of "erasure". This will *usually* come in the form of canonically lesbian characters being shipped with guys (for some reason, gay men being shipped with women doesn't seem to come up nearly as often - there's a whole tangent about sexism and misogyny there that I'm not even going into right now).

For a specific example, I'll go with Amity from TOH, who (not infrequently) gets shipped with Hunter. Now, I'm sure there are some people who are genuinely interested in this pairing, and their character arcs do have similarities that could provoke some interesting interactions. But - Amity is explicitly, canonically a lesbian, and (canonically) in a relationship with Luz (another woman). So, the majority of time when I see this pairing, the reasoning behind it usually boils down to one of three things:

Outright homophobia, to reject the canon, same-sex relationship between Luz and Amity (just because they don’t like seeing two women together)

Outright homophobia, to insist that Amity "should be with a man, instead"

Trolling, because it'll "trigger the snowflakes" (which is just homophobia with extra steps)

Of course, all of them will (conveniently) hide behind the excuse of it being "just an interesting pairing". (Some of the same issues arise with "Lunter" (Luz / Hunter), except that considering Luz is canonically bi, it actually is a more logical pairing. So that gets tied up in biphobia, which is {once again} an entirely separate tangent that I'm not addressing here.)

The other excuse that gets trotted out time and time again is "Everyone has always changed canonically straight characters into gay ones for shipping, and that isn't a problem, so why is this?" Which might sound "reasonable" on the surface, but is a near perfect example of a false equivalence for two reasons:

There are no "canonically straight" characters. I mean, *maybe*, but 99.99% of the time when a character has a canonically establish sexuality, it's not "straight". Just because someone may be visibly/textually attracted to just one or more people of the opposite sex, that doesn't in any way preclude them from being bisexual or pansexual. It's a very obvious display of heteronormativity to just assume everyone is straight by “default”, and no, it's not "just the same".

Even if it were, queer characters are *VASTLY* underrepresented in media. Yes, things are improving. Yes, we have more overtly, outwardly, explicitly, canonically queer characters (and relationships) being portrayed in all forms of media that we ever had historically, but it's still considerably outnumbered by "straight" (or at least straight-presenting) characters and relationships. When some shows (not all) have the "token gay character", that means that your average show is basically 0-1 queer characters. Not really great numbers. So let's say there's a show with 10 main characters, one of whom is queer and the rest are "straight". If we reimagine another one to be queer so we can ship them, there are still 80% "straight" characters on just this one show alone. Whereas if you reimagine the one queer character to be straight...it's not hard to see why a queer person might take offense at those decisions.

Let's take a look at The Owl House. This is one of the queerest shows targeted at a wide family audience. Most of the "main cast" (series regulars - I'll define this as being featured in the opening credits sequence) is queer in one form or another, either canonically or implied (in the show or by the crew). But let's take a look at the relationships of the characters. Among our main characters, there are three "canon" (explict or heavily implied) relationships:

Luz / Amity (queer F/F)

Eda / Raine (queer F/NB)

Hunter / Willow ("straight" M/F)

Yes, I know that neither character in the last one is straight, but their relationship is "straight", or straight-presenting. Still, 2/3 is good, right?

Now, let's extend it to all named characters that we see in a visible relationship, with a named partner, in the show:

Vee / Masha (queer F/NB)

Harvey / Gilbert Park (queer M/M)

Alador / Odalia Blight ("straight" M/F)

Dell / Gwendolyn Clawthorne ("straight" M/F)

Manny / Camila Noceda ("straight" M/F)

So, one of the queerest shows on television doesn't even break 50% of relationships being visibly queer. And this is the exception, not the rule, for visible representation. Most shows are vastly more skewed to straight, or straight-presenting, characters and relationships.

So, no, it's not "just the same". And that's why it's not at all unreasonable to see queer people be offended when, out of a plethora of "straight" characters and relationships to choose from, they feel the need to take one of the few visibly queer ones and make it "straight".

I do want to reiterate my first statement again, just to be extra clear. I do *NOT* believe in trying to police what people create, or consume. I will fervently defend artists to have that right, no matter how objectionable I may find their content (as long as it's appropriately tagged/categorized/labeled/etc.). Yes, this even applies to even more "problematic" ships (another tangent I won't go into here). I would like people to do some self-examination and make sure they are being honest with *why* they may be creating/consuming that content, and I absolutely expect it to be clearly labeled, but in no way am I going to try and prevent them from doing so on an individual level.

TL;DR - Make/consume whatever artwork you want, but be conscious of your motivations behind doing so, don't be surprised when it offends people, and don't try to rationalize it as being "the same" as putting "straight" characters into queer ships.