#He helps him rebuild his sect!

[thepurplewombat]

It occurs to me that part of the reason why people in fandom react so badly to JGY killing NMJ is misogyny.

Because like, he poisons him. And poison is a woman's weapon because women are, or were, often without any other weapons.

But actually it also just occurred to me that JGY is cast throughout his past in a very traditionally feminine type of way? Like, not explicitly but if you look at the way that he is dependent on the powerful men around him - JGS, NMJ, WRH - to give him status and some ability to affect his fate within the limits of what they allow...that's a feminine role! That is the role of a woman in a patriarchal society - dependent, with her reputation constantly on the edge of ruin. And being physically weaker and not as good at cultivation as the people around him also plays into that because he doesn't have the same kind of options another man might have in a similar situation - he's not in a position to go and make his fortune because he doesn't have the kind of skills or strength he'd need. Like, if WWX got sick of the Jiangs, he could absolutely go and make a good living as a rogue cultivator, but JGY? He can't do that - his options are either give up on cultivation altogether, or gain power in whatever way he can. In his case, in a way that is most often used by women in this kind of setup - ie, becoming important to important men.

And that's always been painted as such a negative thing (because the patriarchy! And because women wanting agency over their lives, livelihoods, and bodies is a Sign of the End Times!) that in part, JGY would already be subconsciously tainted in fandom's eyes. Even if he never killed NMJ. Even if he never killed anyone at all, he'd still be sus because he's a: following a traditionally feminine route to power which b: has traditionally been disdained (at some point I will talk about how 'gold digger' is an insult when for large parts of human history a woman's only path to financial security did in fact lie in marrying well).

And it's also interesting just how much of JGY's story is about sex when as far as we know the man had sex exactly once. And that's a feminine thing too! Like, he's tainted by his mother's profession and his father's reputation in a way that his father never is. He ends up married to his sister, which is somehow painted as his fault even though JGS is clearly at fault, he's harassed by his brother...the way JGY's life is affected by sex he isn't even having, by the rumors of it and his origins, that's a very feminine situation to be in, you know?

(at this point I want to take a moment to clarify that when I say feminine I'm not calling him a woman, I'm saying he occupies a role in the story that is traditionally assigned to women, and lives a life more like that of a woman in a patriarchal society than a man)

But anyway, back to NMJ and his death. So we have a big strong man lashing out physically against someone weaker than them, and eventually the big strong man dies and it turns out it was poison. And gasp! It's horrible! It's horrible in a way that NMJ swinging his sword around and threatening JGY's life doesn't seem to be for a lot of people.

But why is it that JGY's poisoning of NMJ is regarded so much more negatively than NMJ's repeated attempts to kill him? Is it just because he succeeded? Or is it maybe because poison is a woman's weapon? It's sneaky and underhanded and not 'honorable' but like, what were his other options? Challenge him to a duel?

Anyway I think I had a point but then I got distracted, but here's some closing words.

Throughout his life, JGY is put into situations that are traditionally inflicted on women, dependent on powerful men for his survival, and uses traditionally feminine means to ensure his survival when the powerful men he's beholden to turn on him. Maybe we should take a good long look at why his actions are viewed as worse than what anyone else in the story does.

[thatswhatsushesaid]

quick, we need to inject some unapologetic positivity into the jgy side of the mdzs fandom. i'll go first:

1) no one in this book is as devoted to their mother as jin guangyao is to meng shi, and i love that about him.

2) can you imagine being newly orphaned and rejected by your only known living relative, penniless and without prospects, only to meet the injured heir to a ravaged sect and choosing to spend what slim resources you have protecting him and keeping him safe? because that's what meng yao did for lan xichen, and i think that's insane (affectionate)

3) what a cultivation prodigy jin guangyao actually was! no formal training, no support from a sect, no guidance from a dedicated teacher or mentor, and he still possesses such a natural gift for the qin that his talent with this instrument is recognized and admired widely across the jianghu. the only cultivators with more raw talent for it than him are members of the gusu lan. iconic.

4) those watchtowers saved hundreds of thousands of commoners' lives, which is, again, something precious few members of the gentry had any interest in investing their time or resources into doing.

5) the reason that post-canon wangxian can fuck nasty on every single exposed surface of the cloud recesses is because jin guangyao spent his slim political capital after the war pressuring jgs into sparing the funds to help rebuild it. say thank you, xiandu.

for once, sect leader yao is right and he should say it.

[littlesmartart]

DRAWTOBER #22 - Harmony is the Value by @maura-labingi and @little-smartass

They walk the rest of the way in pleasant silence; with the view out over the sprawling city of Lanling from Koi Tower, and the way the sunset paints the flowers and glinting gold buildings in soft pastel hues, and the sweet looks A-Yao keeps flashing him from under his eyelashes, it ought to be a perfect evening, and yet- Probably, it is just residual discomfort, but the deeper they walk into Koi Tower, the more he can feel his spiritual senses… twinging is the best description, like he’s walking on a sprained ankle. With all the beauty and warmth around him, having this strange but insistent pulsing of unease feels like listening to music played on a guqin with one single string out of tune. It doesn’t help that the whole place seems oddly deserted - corridors he has seen previously ringing with the footsteps of servants are conspicuously silent, side rooms usually full of cheerful bustle absent of guests. He can’t bear the idea of ruining this long-awaited reunion, though, so he pushes down the unpleasantness, down and down, and when A-Yao knocks on the door of a guest suite, and da-ge answers it, smile already blooming on his face - well. It’s easy to ignore. It's probably nothing.

the final fic in our trilogy, covering the immediate post-war aftermath! this is the part that deviates the furthest from canon, with all the changes leading up to it, and we wanted to use it to explore:

what would cultivation society look like post-war if the Jins weren't so dominant, and the sects had committed to working together to rebuild? how would that affect the political machinations of someone like JGS?

what would 3zun look like in a universe where nieyao are not pushed further apart by the war, and how would that change events moving forward?

how would JZX, having spent a significant time as a leader in the war, adjust to returning to life under his controlling parents? would a more active, confident JZX - with a Mianmian who has greater authority and a JYL who has greater confidence at his side - make different choices than in canon?

what if NHS continued to use the skills he honed during the war in peacetime, and made some unexpected allies that kept him way more in the loop than in canon?

[symphonyofsilence]

Daily reminder that when the Cloud Recesses got attacked, and LXC went on the run and JGY saved him and helped him hide, the Wens were in full power. They were the undisputed ruling clan. So much so that they could demand the other sects to send their heirs to them as hostages, and nearly kill the said heirs, fearing no consequences. And no sect had decided to try anything against them yet. They didn't think that ALL THE OTHER SECTS TOGETHER could do anything against the Wens. (And they truly couldn't if it weren't for Meng Yao.)

A little insignificant outcast like Meng Yao was FUCKED if he was caught hiding away THE Zewu-Jun.

And yet he did it! He didn't like...drag LXC to a doctor and said "I found this mysterious wounded man with an unknown identity. He's your problem now. Ciao. :)" No! He fully took care of him and hid him away and helped him rebuild the Cloud Recesses! (And listen, the Xiyao agenda of the show when Meng Yao specifically thinks of "Zewu-Jun" when he hears about the fall of the cloud recesses while he himself is bleeding on the ground and goes to save LXC after his banishment is very beautiful, especially for LXC. Imagine seeing this cute guy that you developed a crush on with one look and a total of 5 minutes of interaction before the guy left. And then suddenly in your worst & most desperate situation, the guy suddenly appears like an angel like you've manifested him and saves you and nurses you back to health and takes your hand in rebuilding your sect every step of the way. BUT! Book!Meng Yao didn't even know LXC! There has never been a tender hand touch and LXC gracefully saving him from an awkward and cruel social situation! He just saw a man and saved him out of the kindness of his heart regardless of the risks for himself!)

And LXC wasn't even the only person he saved individually. He saved Qin Su, too. if he's saved these two individually who knows if he had saved more people. Daily reminder that JGY is the kind of person who will go out of his way to help people when he can.

[jasontoddiefor]

Okay AU where Wei Wuxian gets summoned back to life by like the Su Sect head disciple a couple years pre canon.

The head disciple idk maybe saw the curse backlash on Su Minshan and was Disillusioned By His Sect Leader’s Actions and maybe some other shit so he was like “I’m gonna get back the Yiling Patriarch so he can get revenge on the guy actually to blame for the hundred holes curse”

WWX is So Confused when he wakes up. Who the fuck is this guy. Where is he. What is going on.

Because there isn’t a conspiracy going on, he gets a very nice letter detailing his life and what he is to do.

So WWX has like fifteen emotions about Su Minshan being the start that lead to his death and, in a particular show of absolutely no self restraint, goes Yiling Patriarch on Su Minshan.

F to Su Minshan, he dies very quickly and painfully.

And here is where WWX should make his escape attempt, exact the person to find him is a baby disciple, seeing Su Minshan’s body, seeing WWX and long forgotten instincts kick in.

Five minutes later, WWX finds himself carrying The Baby Disciple to the Sect’s infirmary, yelling for a healer because their sect leader had a qi deviations and he couldn’t stop it and someone help

WWX is very confused this whole lie is apparently working. He gets the sense that the disciples’ curriculum is still being established. And while sorting all that out, he thinks about quitting the sect and running off with his new life except people keep handing shit to him because this newly established sect does not have a proper heir. It does have a Head Disciple who decided to commit suicide murder so WWX could be here.

He categorically does not want to be in charge. Unfortunately, until the second disciple toughens up, he’s gotta be

And it’s not like the whole sect is a mess? There are a lot of rogue cultivators who joined a sect that didn’t want to be as arrogant as the great sects. People whose sects were destroyed, too bitter to join any other established one, but willing to rebuild

They’re nice people. Leaving then hanging just feels kinda bad? So he can stick around for a while. And teach some lessons because WWX may not be a Lan but unfortunately he is that annoying genius that has to hear a song only once and fuck no, that’s not how that Lan song goes, you’re playing that incorrectly—

So he’s keeping himself busy instructing and conducting nighthunts and doing work he Did Not Sign Up For. He twitches when they call him sect leader. But they make advances and maybe they can figure out some musical cultivation of their own if they’re so intend on doing that. They can be better than just less good Lan, he thinks.

Now, however, here’s the thing. Su Minshan still obviously cursed Jin Zixun. And when a sect leader dies surprisingly, that draws attention, especially since he was so close friends with Jin Guangyao

WWX does not intend to drop the “by the way your friend did shady shit” thing so obviously but if the Jin keep pushing for shit now that the Su sect is suddenly getting a lot better very quickly, he’s gonna push back

Cut to: WWX, in the middle of teaching Baby Disciples some half-forgotten nonsense melody, freezing up as Lan “I am gonna I investigate the shit of the thing that started the events that got my one love killed” Wangji shows up in his classroom

Watch the chaos.

[carrot-felisidad]

I like that Jiang Cheng isn't just a natural-born tsundere. Tired of the tsun trope actually, but JC's was so natural that I forgot that the fandom gives him this tsun caricature.

He was actually pretty sweet when he was younger with his dogs, then it was taken away because his dad prioritized this other kid. He learned to love the said kid, but every time that he's berated or compared to him, he learned to limit showing his love. It seems every positive emotion is leveled down by negative emotions, so as an adult, he becomes suspicious of positive emotions that he sabotages himself every time. Doesn't help that the burden of rebuilding a sect was given to his very young shoulders. Every one was expecting him to fail, he didn't get any help, his sect elders were dead, he was taking care of an orphaned infant, minor sects were probably waiting for an opportunity to pull the rug under him. He didn't want any of this, he wished he could be soft, but he must show ruthlessness, to the point that he became unfamiliar with his own softness. Then his martial brother came back from the dead, yey, but he chose to leave him for that kid they met that one summer.

I don't think I could call him a tsundere because it feels like an insult to Jiang Cheng's character. Boy wasn't cute doing it, but it bore from me a complete and utter understanding.

[qiu-yan]

a lot of what nie mingjue does makes sense if you consider his specific code of ethics, his position, and the fact that he's known for pretty much his entire life that his cultivation path will kill him and has accepted this fact entirely....but the one thing i don't understand is why he swore brotherhood with jin guangyao. from nie mingjue's point of view, jin guangyao is already the guy who faked a suicide to escape from nie mingjue after nie mingjue tried to bring him to justice for straight-up murder, and that's not even getting into all the fear, anger, and trauma nie mingjue must still be bearing from the wen yao confrontation at nightless city. why would you want to tie yourself via sworn brotherhood to someone who has already done all this shit to you?

consider also the fact that nie mingjue knows his saber cultivation will lead him to become more unstable, impair his judgment, and may even affect his perceptions of reality - which means that he needs confidants he can trust. jin guangyao, via the whole suicide gambit, has already proven to nie mingjue that he is not trustworthy. so if nie mingjue knows that trustworthiness is necessary and that trust is something he's going to need, why would he choose to tie himself to someone he already thinks of as untrustworthy?

some potential reasons i can think of (written from nie mingjue's pov, so they might read uncharitably):

first (1), there's nie mingjue's stated reason of "wanting to correct jin guangyao from the path of evil" (something along those lines). there's at least two different ways you can take this:

1A: nie mingjue wants to do this in order to protect others from jin guangyao: first, nie mingjue sees jin guangyao as an emerging threat no one else has yet recognized, and so wants to keep an eye on jin guangyao / keep him in check. if jin guangyao can be "corrected to the righteous path," then fewer innocent people suffer. second, nie mingjue wants to protect lan xichen from jin guangyao. from nie mingjue's pov, lan xichen has been completely taken in by jin guangyao's charm, so jin guangyao could pose a danger to him as well; by inserting himself into the sworn brotherhood, nie mingjue can be there to protect lan xichen.

1B: nie mingjue wants to do this in order to save jin guangyao himself: nie mingjue still loves jin guangyao and wants to save jin guangyao from the path of evil, for jin guangyao's own sake. confucius (and aristotle, and marx, and a whole bunch of other dudes) does say that if you see your friend doing something morally wrong, then as their friend you have a duty towards them specifically to object to their behavior.

second (2), there are also some more practical / political reasons:

2A: the sworn brotherhood secures a more stable future for nie huaisang, since it entails long-term connections with the jin and the lan.

2B: a sworn brotherhood between high-profile members of different sects after the ordeal of the sunshot campaign could help in encouraging more postwar intersect unity, which would be necessary and beneficial in a time period in which everyone's still struggling to recover from the war. this sworn brotherhood ties the jin, the lan, and the nie together as allies, meaning they can share resources and information as they rebuild. of course, this does entail the exclusion of the jiang - but my personal opinion is that they all lowkey expected jiang cheng to fail and for the jiang to decline / be absorbed by another sect.

third and finally (3), there are the simple interpersonal reasons, unrelated to morality or politics:

3A: nie mingjue still cares for jin guangyao and therefore still wants a relationship with him. at the moment he swore brotherhood, he was still willing to try and mend things with jin guangyao.

3B: nie mingjue wants to make lan xichen happy, and lan xichen clearly wants the sworn brotherhood.

3C: if nie mingjue refuses to swear brotherhood, lan xichen may very well go ahead and swear brotherhood with jin guangyao anyways. which would lead to lan xichen and jin guangyao becoming closer, while lan xichen by contrast drifts further way from nie mingjue.

probably some aspect of all of these (plus some other reasons i forgot) are true at once. what's interesting, though, is that one can construct two overlapping yet also separate categories of reasons - separated by whether one believes nie mingjue still holds personal affection for jin guangyao or not.

[nutcasewithaknife]

I've been obsessed with Jiang Cheng since halfway through my first watch of cql, and here's why. He always keeps doing better than I expect him to.

(wow, this got long. rest is under the cut!)

He's introduced as the brother-killer, the ruthless sect leader with a reputation for being merciless. Then cut to the flashback, a Jiang Cheng who is fifteen, surrounded by his sister and brother and happy about it, occasionally doing stupid teenager things, trying so very hard to be Ideal Heir, while Wei Wuxian is the prodigy that keeps stealing his thunder effortlessly. And you go, "oh, I know this story. It's a tragedy, because these brothers loved each other once, but one's ambition will eventually breed jealousy which will fester into hate and end, tragically, in the death of the better half." It's Cain and Abel! You've seen how it ends, it's the first scene you see, of course that's where it's going!

And then you see how the three siblings help each other survive a frankly horrible and abusive household. They try to do for each other what their parents couldn't; Yanli tries to be their mother, Jiang Cheng doesn't believe the rumours about Wei Wuxian being jfm's illegitimate son or hold it against him as he very easily could've learnt to from his mother, and Wei Wuxian does his darned best to get jfm to acknowledge and love his son as he does for Wei Wuxian.

You keep waiting for the other shoe to drop!! Yunmeng burns, Jiang Cheng chokes his brother in the rain, and you think this is it, this is where it finally breaks. But he sticks with his brother and sister, he makes some stupid decisions in his grief and pays dearly for it. When he wakes up without a core he is broken, his 'ambition' is destroyed, and you remember him choke his brother and think this is it, and then... it isn't. Other than the one grieving rant in the rain, he never blames his brother for their loss, never demands that he fix it all. When Wei Wuxian does come with a solution, Jiang Cheng doesn't act like it's something he was owed. It's his brother, his brilliant genius brother, who miraculously fixed this impossible thing! He's the most Jiang of them all, of course he achieved the impossible!

And then he's the young sect leader in a bloody war, needing to win, needing to prove his worth and his sect's worth at every turn. This is where he becomes the ruthless, powerful man we meet in the first few episodes! Only.... he finds Wen Qing, who is the enemy in the eyes of the Jianghu, and offers to protect her (only her because he knows his limits, he can't protect all her people and his own, and his duty to his sect is first). He goes looking for his brother, months on end, haggard to the bone.

Then Wei Wuxian shows up wielding a power that's the worst taboo in their world, a power frighteningly similar to the power-drunk villain that they war is being waged against! He's doing unspeakable things, terrible torture in the name of revenge! Ah, so this is what it finally is! The moment they finally fall out for good, where Jiang Cheng cannot abide to tarnish his sect's reputation with Wei Wuxian's, and their love turns to hate.

But.... Jiang Cheng sees what he's done, and the first thing he does is to hug him tight. He asks about Wei Wuxian not carrying his sword, but even after the diplomatic nightmare of a war council, Jiang Cheng is just worrying. It's the most open, the most honest we've seen him so far, and he is concerned for his brother. He shuts it down when Jin Zixun tries to pick a fight. He takes responsibility for the person everyone's wary of, because that's his brother and he trusts him! He's hiding things, yes, but one day he will be ready to talk and Jiang Cheng will wait till then.

Then the war's won (by Wei Wuxian, of course!) and he has a sect to rebuild. And his brother is not at his side. First he's slacking off and drinking around town, then he runs away with the Wens to the Burial Mounds. It's terrible for the sect's and Jiang Cheng's own precarious position in Jianghu. Surely, this is the last thread of Jiang Cheng's love for his brother, the beginning of the man we were introduced to? But it's fucking not! Yes, he's frustrated. Yes, he's mad. And yet, he doesn't force his sister into a diplomatically advantageous marriage (which I strongly believe is the bare minimum of being a decent human being, but is something that wouldn't have been a questionable or dishonourable thing for him to do in the culture and world this story is set in) because she is not a pawn and he respects her choice above the politics! He tries to defend his First Disciple, his brother, and is overshadowed by much more powerful leaders who are bigoted and/or afraid of his power. And when it all goes to shit, they fight! This is the end of it, surely? But no! It's all fake! They fight, make up a lie about how the Yunmeng Jiang has supressed Wei Wuxian and his Wens in the Burial Mounds so they can live without being under attack for however long, and then have shady meetups to discuss their nephew's name!!

In the carnage of Nightless City, their sister dies at his hands, and the horrible realisation dawns that this is what pushes them over the brink, literally. And then!! AND THEN!!!!! EVEN THEN IT WASN'T ENOUGH FOR HIM TO KILL HIS BROTHER!!! The first scene was a lie, WEI WUXIAN HAD TO THROW HIMSELF OFF!!!!!! And when he's finally back, what does Jiang Cheng do? Kill him? ban him from ever returning to their home? No! He wants to drag him back home and make him apologise, explain himself!!

A lot of this is very focused on the brothers, but even outside of that, Jiang Cheng keeps subverting the expectations that the story builds for him right in the beginning. For all the talks of 'disciplining' his nephew (which could unquestionably entail some form of corporal punishment, as we see in other parts of the story) and the childhood Jiang Cheng himself had, the idea of his Jiujiu raising his hand against him is unthinkable to the point of incredulity for Jin Ling. When Jin Ling has his breakdown over Suihua on the Lotus Pier docks, I was full bracing myself for Jiang Cheng to yell at him for crying in public without any shame or dignity, but what does he do? Calls his nephew to his side and demands to know who made him cry, so he can fucking wreck them for daring to do that! He has a mere day to process the Golden Core reveal, and after all the yelling, he actually apologises to his brother!!

Then, in the mother of all sucker-punch moments, we find out that the one grief-riddled, frustrating moment of apparent stupidity whose domino effect this entire thing has been, was in fact Jiang Cheng willingly sacrificing himself, sect be damned, to save his brother and sister. And like!! How do you have such a character who simultaneously is and is not what he seems to be!!!

I (and a lot of the audience) immediately played into the simple brotherhood-destroyed-by-jealousy plot that it seems to be at first, but that's the intention! The entire story keeps showing how misleading, how vicious rumours can be and how horribly it can affect who someone is in the eyes of society. We see this happen in the story, of course, but the narrative also relies on the audience to make the same mistake, to take the tropes that seem obviously implied at the start, and then unravels the true complexity of the story as it moves forward. We got played by the narrative and it was so worth it!! Wei Wuxian is the prime example, of course, but cql (and mdzs from what I gather, though I haven't read the books) does it with such nuance and brilliance for Jiang Cheng, how do you not immediately lose your entire mind about it for the rest of forever!!!!!

[azu1as]

【 "Righteousness"? What a joke. 】

Tang Bo stares at his captors—his own family—with a tired, embittered expression on his face.

The Dark Saint's revenge was finished. Now, he can't help but wonder what Chung Myung thinks of the monster Tang Bo become for him.

Tang Bo couldn't stop the resentment and anger that choked him after he woke up from his near-death coma.

They paraded the Mount Hua Sect as heroes for their "noble sacrifice" with a fervor that instead should have been spent on helping rebuild the weakened sect properly.

Despite being in the middle of still recovering, Tang Bo leaves the Tang Estate to help and protect his hyung's sect in the same way he had asked Chung Myung to do the same for his family.

But he saw it in the way Mount Hua's disciples carried themselves. The invisible weights.

Tang Bo saw them rummaging through their surviving archives, a large portion burnt and destroyed by the last Demonic Cult attack, and realize that they were missing after Zhongnan came to aid them.

Tang Bo realized that staying here was not enough. It simply would not be enough to protect his hyung's legacy.

He could see the sect's slow decline in the years come without a leader to guide it. But Tang Bo could not fulfill that role for them.

Perhaps he was more clouded by grief than he could recognize. Perhaps a near-death experience made him more reckless.

But if he couldn't bring the Mount Hua Sect back to the top...

He'll simply have to settle with bringing down everyone else.

The Great Sects don't see it coming. Tang Bo's poison moved faster than they could fight back.

He can't bring himself to care about the growing blood on his hands. There was no rush of satisfaction or guilt or regret. All that was left was apathy.

Maybe it was because Chung Myung was dead.

And with him, the part of Tang Bo that was human enough to care.

It was a relief, almost, when the Tang Family finally found him and captured him. His hands were cut off for his crimes.

But Tang Bo couldn't bring himself to care. He was done and all he wished for was silence.

But it wouldn't be granted to him as his powerful cultivation punished him in a curse of immortality.

An unwanted endless lifetime for all the lives he had cut short. Funny.

It takes a century before he is freed from his isolation by a familiar, albeit too young, face.

"Ah, you're truly going to break my heart if you continue wearing such a wretched expression, hyung-nim."

It seemed that fate made him wait for a reason, at least.

[lansplaining]

I think people have a hard time visualizing JC and WWX’s different strengths. Like WWX is great in a emergency when quick action is needed but if you need someone to set up a permanent plan for running an organization you go to JC. It’s not to say JC can’t think on his feet or WWX can’t plan ahead, but I know which one I’d like to work on a group project with.

yeah!!! but we also don't get to see Jiang Cheng do his thing, ever, so I get why! I for one am DESPERATE to know how he rallied enough cultivators to his utterly destroyed sect to be anything resembling a leading force in the Sunshot Campaign. how did he rebuild and restructure the sect when he didn't have a clan to back him-- he'd have to reimagine a completely new structure for Yunmeng Jiang, something unlike what any other major clan is doing! how did he navigate not only the practicalities, but the politics of being an extremely young sect leader with no resources, no Jin Guangyao to give him free loans and help him rebuild like the Lan had, not a member of the Venerated Triad, only the Jin as extremely contingent and fair-weather allies... and after 13/16 years, is back to being one of the largest and most important clans in the jianghu, respected and feared and known?

Lan Wangji is Hanguang-jun and Lan Xichen was seen as a beacon of hope wherever he arrived, but imagine the stories they must have told about Jiang Cheng. imagine what a miracle he must have seemed to be, rising from the ashes of Lotus Pier.

[undercover-stories]

Ok hear me out. This is for the people who keep saying that Jiang Cheng can't help the remnants cause he's still rebuilding his sect and is in a politically weak position.

Because I argue if he had actually played his cards right he should have actually been the one with the most to bargain and gain if he helped Wei Ying

Cause yeah, everyone hates the remnants and is terrified of Wei Ying. Imagine if Jiang Cheng had actually used that. If the people saw Wei Ying as some kind of monster on the loose, then make it the JIANG'S monster on a leash instead. When the brothers met at the burial mound, Wei Ying had asked Jiang Cheng for a solution that still safeguards the Remnants. Telling Wei Ying to play along so people think Jiang Cheng has influence on him would be easy. So Jiang Cheng just makes a statement, "Wei Ying said sorry and he's chill but he's keeping the Remnants cause technically yeah, the Jin were mistreating them and the people guarding were simply punished for that mistreatment. Basically, the remnants are under us now"

There WILL be an uproar from almost everyone, but all Jiang Cheng needs to do is play cool, double down and call their bluff. "Yeah, you don't agree? Fine. We're leaving." And no one can do anything cause they're all still licking their wounds from the last war and aren't just gonna start a new one. Even if they wanted to, they know they can't take on Wei Ying, so they won't.

Jiang Cheng is building his clan from the ground up. Doing so whilst making the clan self sustainable would be more than manageable. Plus, we have another secret weapon, and that's Jin Zixuan, who at this point is so in love with YanLi that he would probably go against Jin Guangshan any day now. And we know Yanli isn't gonna go anywhere without her brothers. It's either he defects and brings some of his loyal servants with him to either establish their own sect or join the Jiangs OR Jin Guangshan just relents cause that's his heir.

Coaxing their way back into the Lans good graces is also more than manageable with Lan Xichen. Nie Mingjue can be a brute, but he's not gonna pick a fight where there doesn't need to be one. He just fought a war. He's done. The smaller clans just do whatever the big clans do.

This is what frustrates me the most. If Jiang Cheng had been just a little bit smarter and played the long game he could have had everything. Instead he bent and snapped under the pressure of the other clans and told Wei Ying to just abandon the Wens.

I think mxtx did it on purpose too. I think it was meant to be a character defining moment. Jiang Cheng had the ultimate opportunity to live up to the Jiang Motto and do the impossible.

He didn't. That will always be the biggest tragedy of his character

[angstymdzsthoughts]

Sending this cause it won't leave my Brian:

WWX died by MDY whipping. She's so angry that she's not as careful as she could be and the whip flies widely. WWX is already in the ground- fully exhausted from all the stuff his body is trying to heal from- and the whip catches his throat and rips into his jugular. He bleeds out too quickly for anyone to react/ body just gives up. He's a teenager and even with a strong golden core it's not like he's immortal or in the best shape.

The maid is killed when she opens her mouth about some disparaging comment and WZL is killed by a grief stricken JC. He's horrified by what his mother did and is more so when his father gets home and kills WC driving the wens back. But his father doesn't react the way he's expecting

JFM is upset (take a pick on how he feels about WWX) but he's compartmentalizing l. WWX is dead so he can't do anything for him but his son, his sect is still standing so he has to focus on that and not on someone he can no longer help. He was like this with finding WWX -his friends are dead but their son isn't. JC doesn't take this change well and is more upset and has no one to turn to cause JYL was sent away for a bit. So he has to grapple with his brother's death at his mother's hand and his father's seeming uncaring. Needless to say he has to change a lot really quick and doesn't trust his parents. (his dad loved WWX more than him-right?- so what would happen if he had died instead of this is how the "favoured" kid is treated).

The wens have taken a hit from WCs defeat and it pauses them enough for WN and WQ to make a run for it. Their family would be a bit bigger than at the burial mounds but not by much since a lot of those healthy enough to fight were forced to leave. (So instead of 20~ ppl it's closer to 50~)

JC is out and about because of conflicting feelings and runs into them and has a moment of just "what would WWX do?" And ends up deciding to help cause it's what his brother would have done esp since he recognized WN as the kid WWX stood up for during the archery competition. He can't take them home cause he doesn't trust his parents so he goes to the lans.

Let's assume LZC is back but no one rlly knows the damage done to LP yet

JC explains himself and asks for help and LZC is ok with it cause 1) right thing to do 2) bolster the lans numbers for rebuilding cause so many died 3) more healers to use during the rapidly approaching war

JC ends up spilling what happened and how WWX dies and LZC knows this will break his brother's heart especially cause LZ had left that morning to check in on LP for them since they know the wens tried something. Basically a damage report

Skip to LP and LZ arrives and meets with JFM and sees the price is mostly intact so thinks things are fine. Asks after WWX and again, JFM is compartmentalizing, doesn't say outright he's dead and just motions to the area they're keeping the bodies of those who did die at which is very close to the healers buildings.

LZ goes to the healers and sadly gets sent farther in and just sees his soulmate dead and just breaks down sobbing over WWX body.

.

[justaghostingon]

How to be a Bad Husband without Shijie getting Mad at You

A guide by Wei Wuxian

An arranged marriage au because i’ve been reading to many of them recently.

Just after the sunshot campagin, the jiang are still rebuilding, and jiang cheng realizes he has a problem

The jin want to marry jin zuxian to yanli, and take the jiang in as a vassal state, which he doesn’t want

And wei wuxian’s rep isn’t doing them any favors

He needs to rebuild his alliances, establish themselves, and do it fast

So when the lan’s offered a new treaty he said yes immediately, before reading it

He really should have read it, because it wasn’t a treaty, it was lan xichen, tired of his brother’s pining, offering an engagement deal between lan zhan and wei wuxian

Now jiang cheng can’t back out without losing face, and in this state he really can’t afford too.

So wei wuxian finds himself engaged to lan zhan, counting down the days towords their rapidly approaching marriage

As you can imagine, wei Wuxian is not happy about marrying someone who he thinks hates him and his cultivation methods

He complains bitterly to shijie and jiang cheng

Jiang cheng is as annoyed as he is but he can’t think of a way out without rhe lans drawing out first

Wei wuxian says he’ll just drive lan zhan away! Make him want to divorce!

Then yanli steps in, and scolds wei wuxian fiercely,

See lan zhan is marrying out, coming to yumeng to live to a culture he doesn’t know among strangers.

Jiang yanli, who was engaged to do the same once upon a time, has been trained on what to expect, a s knows exactly how hard it can be for someone who doesn’t have her husband’s respect

So help her, her brother will not be one of those faithless dogs!

Neither jiang cheng nor wei wuxian have ever heard yanli call anyone “faithless dog,” and in that moment she looks too much like her mother for either of them to cross her

But wei wuxian’s not out of the game yet.

No one knows lan wangji better than him

This goody-goody is here to play martyr, to play cleansing and keep wei wuxian from his wicked ways, but he doesn’t really like him

He’s hear to be a jailer, not a husband.

All wei ying has to do is treat him like a husband, with all the affection, touch, and teasing that comes with it! Lan Wangji’s three least favorite things!

Lan wangji will be screaming for divorce in a week!

Wei wuxian doesn’t get to put his plan into action until after the wedding, as he isn’t allowed to see lan wangji until then

But once its over, he puts his plan in full swing

First step: cuddling. Lan Wangji hates touch, wei wuxian loves it. So naturally to drive lan wangji mad, he needs to touch him constantly, sitting in his lap, holding his hand, cuddling at night, etc

This does not work. Lan wangji was a little hesitant at first, but now he seems to be tolerating it with only the slight reddening of his ears to show his rage

He even seems upset when wei wuxian isn’t sitting in his lap!

Wei wuxian thought at first that this was because they were inside their house and home, but when he plopped himself down on lan zhan’s lap at a sect conference, in fromt of everyone…lan zhan put his ARMs around his WAIST like this was NORMAL

Now wei Wuxian is the weird one who’s tucking his head into lan wangji’s neck, embarrassed

From this experience wei wuxian realizes something: Lan Zhan’s a secret cuddle bug!!!

He just never got the chance thanks to all those stuffy clan rules

And well, wei wuxian can’t leave a fellow cuddle bug hanging can he? Think about all thr hugs lan zhan has missed that he needs to make up for! He’ll just have to think of something else.

Step Two: presents. Lan zhan never liked any of the porn or alchol wei wuxian tried to give him before, so clearly he’s gonna hate it if wei wuxian gives him that and more!

Wei wuxian starts piling lan wangji with gifts. Porn! They’re married now so he can’t refuse! Alcohol, the best of the best! Spicy food he made himself! This pretty ribbon he saw at thr market and thought of lan zhan! This lantern with a bunny on it! That silk with bunnies…this painting of bunnies…

He might have gone a bit overboard with the bunnies

No matter what he gives him, lan wangji takes it with solemn grattitude, and tries it out. This proves a problem when lan wangji keeps eating the spicy food even as it clearly hurts him

Shijie frowns disaprovingly at him once while watching lan wangji guzzle water, and wei ying swore to do it never again

The less said about the alcohol incident the better

There is one more serious gift he gives lan wangji, one he knows he won’t dissaprove of. Smuggled among the presents and clothes, he brings in new “attendents” who look suspiciously like those wen remandents who seemingly vanished into thin air from their containment camp.

Lan wangji takes them in gravely, and soon their home is filled with the sound of laughter as a small boy runs after lan zhan

So clearly gifts aren’t working. Time for step three: sex

…..

…..lan zhan won.

Maybe all those gifts of porn were a bad idea, sullying such a pure mind

At this point Wei Wuxian is getting desperate, nothing he does is making lan wangji less willing to marry him. Its time for desprate measures…

Step Four: tell the truth. He’s never going to stop demonic cultivation and return to the sword path. He can’t.

He needed to tell him anyway, with all the touching they do, it was only a matter of time before he figured it out himself.

Lan Wangji says nothing as wei wuxian explains how he lost his core (still not mentioning how, he’ll take jiang cheng’s secret to the grave) how he was in the burial mounds, how its gone, gone gone and this is all he has left!

Before he knows it he’s a sobbing mess, tears and snot trailing down his face.

Not a very pretty picture for a husband huh?

Lan wangji only opens his arms, and pulls wei wuxian close, letting him cry himself silly in his arms.

It hurts, but it also feels good, safe, like lan zhan is a rock who will stay steady even against the tide of his own emotions

Still, it was a lot, and once he calms down he thinks this time, for sure, lan wangji will leave. He was kind in the confession, because that’s his nature, but surely, surely he doesn’t want to stay chained to a man who can’t even cultivate.

Jiang yanli asks to speak to lan wangji privately, to check in on how he’s adjusting, and wei wuxian sneaks in to listen, bracing for the worst

…when had the worst become lan zhan leaving?

Yanli asks if he has any complains, wei wuxian tenses, and lan zhan…

“I’ve never been so happy,” lan zhan says, because lan’s do not lie.

Wei wuxian is so shocked he tumbles from his hiding place. Yanli frowns with exasperation at him but all his attention is on lan wangji

Do you mean it? He asks

Of course,” lan wangji nods, then adds, “i love you” as if it were the simplest thing in the world.

Wei wuxian is laughing, he’s crying, he has an armful of lan zhan and the taste of his lips and well…

Maybe this marriage thing is pretty great actually.

The end

[howlsofbloodhounds]

since your all things killer sans, I have something to think about

Does stage 3 and 4 have a name? Becuase I know stage 2 is killer and stage 1 is sans. Do they have a name? Or is this a system thing where their both named the same thing, their name is also killer, kinda like how systems can get multiple altars of the same thing or same character

Or they do and I'm just being an idiot-

Anyways that's all good bye, enjoy your day!👋

Killer Sans is not a canonical system, although he shows signs of an implied dissociative disorder. Not all dissociative disorders are DID, OSDD-1, or anything with alters or systems.

Also unlikely that Killer himself would know what he has—just that he experiences dissociative states he calls himself, but different enough in some way to warn others in Stage 1 (closest to Sans, but still uncertain if he is sans or not) to not trust him “when he’s like that” (stage 2) or kill him (stage 3.) His thought process is shown to be fragmented, and he relies on these for help on making choices it seems—when no one is around to tell him what to do.

Ultimately just what exact dissociative disorder Killer Sans has is completely up to fandom interpretation. We unfortunately don’t got a lot of canon information on Killer’s Stages—mostly 3 and 4–so you are free to interpret as you will.

If you go with the system interpretation, I feel it important to remember that not all alters need, want, or have different names, or a name at all. Also common in conditioned or ‘programmed’ systems, or systems formed under RAMCOA conditions. I don’t feel qualified to speak much on these types of systems so I won’t, especially when it’s very easy to spread misinformation.

If you want to give them different names, or nicknames, or the same names, or keep their numbered names—3 and 4, Stage 3 and Stage 4, etc.—go ahead.

I personally go with an OSDD-2 interpretation for Killer’s dissociative disorder. This means dissociative identity loss, confusion, and/or disturbance due to thought reform, torture, prolonged intense coercive persuasion, brainwashing, conditioning, programming, indoctrination, recruitment by terror organizations or sects. Results in prolonged changes in or conscious questioning of one’s identity and beliefs.

They become who they need to be to survive in and cope with a dangerous environment and an unbearable reality. Often to the benefit of their abusers and captors.

This is a disorder often found in adult survivors of cults, terrorist organizations, prisoners of war, hostages or those held captive for a long time. A great example, if fictional, of OSDD-2 is Bucky Barnes/the Winter Soldier.

The movies didn’t give him a lot of focus or give his years upon years of trauma enough focus or attention, didn’t handle it with care at all, bypassed the actual deprogramming process by completely getting rid of his Winter Soldier programming and conditioning immediately, but he’s still a good example.

If they hadn’t just had all his programming removed via magical science fuckery, he’d likely still struggle with his identity as Bucky Barnes (who he is free from hydra), the Winter Solider (the fist of hydra, the asset, who and what hydra made him into), and the person he was before the fall off the train.

Certain things would cue and trigger him to view, think, and react exactly how he would as if he were in the environment that created the asset even if he still may be aware he isn’t in the same environment anymore. Such as being completely unable to refuse an order from handler as soon as his trigger words are uttered.

Of course Bucky Barnes and Killer Sans are very special cases that couldn’t exist in real life due to the nature of their worlds—magic, souls, aliens, extremely advanced technology that was capable of wiping Bucky’s memory and forcing him to rebuild a new identity from the ground up every time—not to mention their absurdly long lifespans and immense amount of trauma.

Bucky was kept alive for what, around 90-100 years? Given the super soldier serum or something, kept frozen to keep his body young and fit and only unthawed for mission assignments and making sure his programming still worked.

Killer was kept alive and died through Determination and the Resets for who knows how long. The brain (and in Killer’s case, SOUL), and body will do whatever it thinks it must to survive and cope. Even if it doesn’t exactly fit known science/psychology because both of these characters defy all that noise.

{ @nightmarefandom }

[symphonyofsilence]

"Jiang Cheng is selfish."

Canon Jiang Cheng in his brief appearances: is always following WWX around and cleaning up after his mess (like carrying him on his back after he's beaten by the Lan Sect, sitting in the front of the classroom to appear attentive to LQR after WWX's shenanigans to save face for their sect, to quote WWX himself "you've already saved me so many times. So what's one more?"), warns WWX not to anger WZL since he's known as the core melting hand, then goes to attack WZL with his bare hands when he stands between him & WLJ after WLJ has burned WWX, runs for seven days straight to get help for WWX, begs his mother on his knees to stop hitting WWX in front of the Wens even though he knows if WLJ is not satisfied the Wens would lay waste to their sect and it's either WWX or their sect, uses himself as a bait to draw the Wen soldier away from WWX even though he knows his sect will end with him, his only thought after losing his golden core is that now he can't take revenge for his family and can't rebuild his sect, doesn't stick with his brother even though that's what he's always been doing because he can't risk his newly-built sect's safety, only truly gets mad at WWX when he kills their BIL & indirectly causes their sister's deaths, after 13 years still doesn't have a dog, offers Zidian to JL when he can't protect JL himself, even though he can barely stand and lift his sword still goes back for WWX in the burial mounds, takes a stab to the chest trying to protect WWX, offers to take JL's place as hostage for JGY, stands between JL and an unstoppable fierce corpse, doesn't say anything to WWX about his sacrifice.

[amynchan]

K. So.

It's 5AM, and I'm on the tail end of something that's been screwing with my sinuses and nose, BUT!!! I had??? A thought????

So. Wen Zhuliu. Golden core melting hand. He did what he did because he had a debt to pay, and Wei Wuxian was disguted by him. Why? Because the repayment involved the lives of those who weren't involved. And, I believe, because he turned his back on his family name. Wei Wuxian even offers to let him leave, iirc, but the doesn't and dies for his debt, which he killed others for and even gave up his family name to repay.

Now, Jiang Cheng. I've seen the part of the book floating around where he tried to speak up for the Wen Siblings (and only them), and Lan Xichen tried, too, and they were both overridden by the Nie and the Jin. At this point, Jiang Cheng backs down.

Like. What is he supposed to do? Pull a Wen Zhuliu and put other, uninvolved people at risk for his debt, which is huge? Because if he doesn't push it, he becomes a villain with no morals or sense of right and wrong, but his Sect is safe. If he does push it, he gets a moral pat on the back at the expense of, if not lives, then livelihoods for his rebuilding Sect. Because whether you believe the donghua regarding fire or not, the Jiang--and everyone else--were corralled in their own bases, ripe for the slaughter, by the Wen. And the Jiang were slaughtered. Yeah, 13 years later, they could afford all of those nets (which did strain their budget by the by), but they definitely couldn't post war. They had few people, little capital, and a green leader who gained no respect independently in the eyes of his peers.

He. Was. Weak. Not even "you've got the moral backbone of a chocolate exlaire." Just politicslly undermined and weak. He wasn't in a position to help without sacrificing someone who either made the choice themselves or just had to do what he told them to.

For a feelgood story, I would have loved if Jiang Cheng was able to stay by Wei Wuxian's side, but then that would change the story, the genre, and the characters. But I think that it's important that as much as Wen Zhuliu is an indication of Pure Moral Goodness for Wei Wuxian (who took his own debts entirely upon himself and did not put the loves at others at risk until provoked), he's also an indication of "well, wtf is a dude whose every action impacts those beneath him supposed to do??"

And that's my thought. Imma go back to sleep now.