#HB is gay for all the women !

[isaacathom]

i dont post my hornblower readthrough thoughts here as much because theyre usually just 'weird chapter' or 'oh that was cool! i liked that' but i will say im genuinely really enjoying hornblower in the west indies. its fitting, i think, that the series starts and ends, chronologically, with anthologies.

[flower-boi16]

as a trans person, im pretty baffled by how hh/hb are called good shows queer representation-wise when gender is barely explored at ALL. the only trans character in both shows (afaik) is millies sister whose name i already forgot and who appears in one episode for 5-10 seconds and then in another short that vivz didn't even write. but gender-wise, all the characters are either male or female, which puzzles me so much because there are so many different species in this version of hell (imps, hellhounds, etc) and you're telling me ALL of them are binary and (seemingly) reproduce sexually??? that's not queer, as well as not creative at all

tldr hh/hb is awful when it comes to gender. both shows are as white and "lgb" as they can be

Hazbin and Helluva's queer representation is actually like. Really fucking bad. We have...

Chaz (Bi), a one-dimensional asshole who constantly makes unfunny sex jokes who abandoned Moxxie, his boyfriend, and st. boyfriend went on to date & marry a women (not a great look)

Chaggie (Sapphic), an boring ass and underdeveloped reletionship where one of them purely revolves around the other with no development beyond that. Also the reletionship is severly co-dependant.

Stolas (Gay), a horny asshole who forces someone into having sex with him for his own pleasure, cheated on his wife & frequently neglects his daughter, yet the narrative constantly UwUifs and coddles him for his mistakes.

Stolitz (Gay), a horrendously poorly written & toxic reletionship that the show constantly pretends isn't toxic.

Vaggie (Gay), a character with little to no real depth beyond their reletionship with her girlfriend.

Valentino (Pan), another one-dimensional asshole who SA's Angel Dust.

Pentious (Bi), frequently used as a punching bag in the show (like being SA'd in episode 6 and it's played for laughs) and he was confirmed to be bisexual in a live stream.

Travis (Bi), a very minor character that gets 0.5 seconds of screen time. Also was confirmed to BI in an AMA.

Vox x Valentino (Gay), a reletionship between two antagonists that is also shown to be heavily over-sexualized

Burnie Bunz (Gay), a minor character who is an obsessive stalker who gets killed off in the episode he's introduced in.

Sallie May (Trans), gender was confirmed on twitter and she's a minor character with very little screen-time.

Charlie (Bi), a pretty poorly written protagonist with little development or growth.

Apple and Coco (Gay), side characters with litteraly 0 lines and the only way to even tell if their dating is by going on the model sheets.

Vox (Pan), extremely hypersexual when it comes to his reletionship with Valentino.

Alastor (Aroace), his sexuality was also confirmed in a live-stream and it gets only one small mention in the show.

Moxxie (Bi), frequently used as a punching bag within the show and goes through the same repeated arc.

Litteraly the only decent LGBT characters are Blitz, Angel Dust, Husk, Ozzie and Fizz. Aside from those six, everything else is straight trash in terms of representation lmao.

[blossomthepinkbunny]

Poor rendition of queer characters in HH and HB

Here I am again talking about queer representation in Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss, this time just more generally. Because it's always a little weird to me when people claim HH/HB to have good queer representation, when in actuality most of the queer characters are either just blatant stereotypes or get mishandled somehow. And with Helluva Boss recently winning the Queertys - Web series reward I think that this is probably a pretty good time to acknowledge that kind of stuff (as people have done before).

TW: Sexual assault, R@pe (when referring to the actions of characters)

Blitzø (Pansexual): is very sexual and seen on screen multiple times either having sex or just having had sex. Pretty much fits the general stereotype of queer men always being sexual and also the stereotype of pansexuals just sleeping with everybody. Like, he literally screwed the mutual Ex of his coworkers even though he knew how much that guy hurt them.

Stolas (Gay): also mostly sexual (from how he was introduced) and he is in a pretty terrible "relationship" with Blitzø, which includes coercion, SA, Power dynamics and fetishization. Another very sex-driven queer man. Also just great proof for the people assuming that queer relationships are inherently predatory, unhealthy and never work out.

Moxxie (Bisexual): is often forced into a very feminine role because even in relationships with women, queer men always have to be pointed out to be feminine and putting a guy in a dress is funny I guess.

Fizzarolli & Asmodeus (Queer): they're actually better than a lot of the other characters here but there is still some of that uneven power dynamic going on with them and there are obvious issues with their relationship. Overall they aren't too bad though. They didn't get that much sexual focus and what they got is kinda warranted since Ozzie is the Lust demon. But there is that one scene with Fizz stepping out of his car with Dildo confetti canons (I think) and that was sorta weird, since in an episode before that they presented Crimson as being homophobic and stereotypical for assuming queer men are all obsessed with dicks. Which is just interesting because thats most of the queer men in Vivzepops stories.

Chaz (Queer): just a sexually abusive asshole because we definitely needed more predatory queer men in this show.

Sally May (Trans mtf): basically the single recognized trans character in both shows and she only had one line. After that they made fan merch for her which consisted of her in a bikini with her bulge being drawn pretty visibly (multiple times). Of course there's nothing wrong with Trans people who don't have surgery but it's just a tiny bit weird to me that fanservice merchandise is what she got reduced to, when something like that wasn't even the joke of the only line she had in the show and because she hasn't recieved any kind of focus after that.

Angel Dust (Gay): now there is a lot of stuff that could be said about Angel. On one hand he is another very sexual gay man whose screentime often just consists of sex jokes and references. On the other hand that's a big point for his character. How he tries to act confident in his sexuality when in reality it's the main source of his problems. Though he does often harass other men in the show and that's just so unnecessary. Talking about Angel mostly leads into discussing if he is good representation for SA victims or not, which is something I don't want to talk about that much because I feel like it's not my place to judge that as someone who never has experienced SA. I'm gonna say that I do find Viv's treatment of him outside of the show insensitive (with the pro-shipping, diminishing Valentino as an Abuser and general sexualization of the characters) but as far as the portrayal of him in the show goes I've heard different opinions and you should read the discussion's of actual r@pe survivors about this topic if you want to know about more about it.

Husk (Queer): I don't have anything to say about Husk. He is a very refreshing queer man in these show's and there is nothing bad about him I could think of right now.

Valentino (Queer): for him I mostly want to talk about how he is treated outside of the show which doesn't sit right with me. He is a villian in HH so it's understandable that he is gonna do effed up stuff. I also like that the show tries to make a point about how men get sexually assaulted too (wether they succeeded in that inside the show I'm not gonna judge too hard like I said). But there are a lot of people who not only sexualize him, but also his actions and his relationship to Angel and from what I know Viv never really spoke out against that. She actually interacts with people who do that stuff and I it's just kinda gross.

Vox (Queer): I also don't have a lot to say about him. He and Val are a couple so he is dating a r@pist but he is also a villain so you can't really expect more from him. Especially since he would still be interacting with a r@pist even if they weren't dating.

Alastor (Aromantic, Asexual): is obviously not interested in relationships or sex but his identity is pretty much ignored by a huge amount of the fandom. Vivzepop never say's anything about people blatantly invalidating him like that. It seems to me like she doesn't care about characters who can't be involved in shipping but still wanted to have more diversity in her show so she just called him AroAce. In Hazbin Hotel he isn't bad representation though. His sexuality is never the focus but thats fine, it's mostly just the treatment he gets outside of HH which I don't like.

Charlie (Bisexual): doesn't have a lot to her sexuality. This is something I talked about pretty lengthy in my other post, specifically about the lack of Sapphic content in both shows, so I won't go into too much detail here. Her relationship with Vaggie would probably be the best in both shows if it wasn't for the fact that they both never get the real spotlight as a couple. And there is that thing in Vivzepops stories where the women are pretty much sexless without men and that's obviously something that is generally an issue when talking about the lack of Sapphic representation (which is also a topic heavily tied to sexism). Charlie's portrayal isn't necessarily stereotypical but that's just because there is nothing to her identity in the show.

Vaggie (Lesbian): like I said I already talked about the Chaggie relationship so now I wanna focus on something I didn't even mention in that post. Her name literally being Vagina and that's apparently funny because she is a Lesbian so she obviously likes Vagina. That's just incredibly stereotypical and also excludes Trans Lesbians and Asexual Lesbians who don't want sex. The whole joke was that Adam named her that because he is obsessed with sex and he's a jerk. But her name was always Vagina even in the pilot (from what I know Adam wasn't conceived then and neither was the idea that Vaggie even is a former exterminator).

That's all the queer characters I could think of. I hope I didn't miss any.

I thought about including Millie here too. But she was also already included in my other discussion post and I still don't know if she is canonically Bisexual of if that is just a headcannon so I didn't put her here.

I'm just gonna say that i don't have a problem with queer men being sexual (or any queer person in that regard). But it's pretty much every one of her queer male characters. This is especially bad when a lot of the relationships are toxic as well.

I just think too many characters fit stereotypes and to me that isn't good queer representation. If you like the depiction of queer characters in HH or HB that's good for you and you don't have to agree with me. But you also can't really deny a lot of this stuff and you can't expect others to just be fine with bland, hurtful and sometimes even toxic representation like there is in these shows.

[crooked-wasteland]

Something that always irked me a little was seeing fans say HB/HH have good queer rep. There’s been other adult/children animated shows that done it better. I think the reason fans say that it has good queer rep is it because they get to see the characters have sex, instead of characters having actual chemistry and good interactions.

No one in HB or HH had good chemistry. Charlie and Vaggie are just nonexistent or they should’ve been a slow burn from friends to lovers and blitz and stolas is the worst mlm ship because they don’t have anything they just have sex, they’re just meaning less sex that have to be a couple.

Husk is an asshole to Angel, he just shits on sex work and guilt trips Angel so he doesn’t take drugs but because Cherri is meant to be seen as the negative influence we’re suppose to take husk side and say no to drugs.

I don’t even consider fizz and Ozzie a relationship because they’re just sugaring, but fizz has a unhealthy codependency on Ozzie who kinda goes along because he gets to have sex with fizz and that too to me sounds like the spirit of lust. Doing immoral actions for you’re own selfish wants and desires. If fizz and Ozzie was rewritten and in the hands of a better writer this could’ve been a thrilling toxic story about a powerful prince of lust manipulating his insecure vulnerable lower class imp plaything and hundreds like him, in the spirit of lust

One of my unpopular opinions is that Elemental had the best examples of queer representation in Ember and Wade. And I am aware Ember and Wade are cis gendered and in a heterosexual dynamic. My point being that representation does not always have to be explicit to be profound or accurate. The movie gives Wade an unconventional form of masculinity that validates a nurturing expression that is stereotyped as inherently queer. Additionally, Ember's lack of identity due to the expectations of her family, father, and culture mirrors the existence of many queer individuals who fail to recognize they are bisexual or even gay due to the implicit pressure placed on them to fulfill the typical roles of their society.

Many people take the story in face value, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with seeing it as a story solely based on race, discrimination, the complexities of coexistence, and interracial love.

However, representation does not have to be explicit. There is absolutely plenty to be argued that by having an openly queer relationship moves to normalize the concept socially, but the unfortunate reality exists that (1) queerness is still inherently othering and you will not be able to normalize the existence of queer people just by shoving them front and centre. If anything, it is interpreted as a threat to the dominating social norm that causes people to reject the concept outright compared to subliminally connecting the ideas and experience of queerness to a more universal norm, building on tools and experiences to help others relate to our existence despite them never being able to truly live it.

And (2) movie-making and media is a business. A very expensive one. So risking hundreds of millions of dollars on explicit queerness that is still extremely fringe in most societies is, frankly, bad business.

The issues in representation for HH and HB comes down to what you said here: weak chemistry and toxic dynamics. These aren't good representations, not because they have these problems, but because these problems are overtly ignored or seen as not issues at all. There are a ton of harmful stereotypes that work in our society to keep queerness from being seen as normal or valid.

"Lesbians aren't real because how can two women ever love each other the way a man can love a woman and vice versa."

"Gay men just think about sex all the time. There is no love in their relationships."

"Bi/Pansexual will just have sex with anything."

"Sex is the highest form of romance and so any deviation from the strictly acceptable expressions of sexuality in society is a threat to love and relationships as a whole."

"Queer people are the result of brain damage through drug abuse."

"Queer people are the result of childhood trauma and/or sexual abuse."

"Who's the woman/wears the pants in the relationship?"

All of these statements are real social perceptions and stereotypes of the queer community which Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss directly contribute to. The narrative and characters adhere to every single one of these ideas at some point or another without ever challenging them and oftentimes reinforces them.

I understand and respect people who don't see Elemental as queer representation just because the characters do conform superficially to heteronormative standards. But just making a character gay doesn't make the story or series queer representation, and these shows definitely don't have good representation.

[almacambiondaughterofsaleos]

Viv-stans trying to make any criticism of her or her shows be die to some form of bigotry is so ridiculous.

Like I saw a post where a bunch of them were theorizing that the reasons people take issue with all the swearing is that viv is a woman, and that her shows are happy queer experiences where the swearing isn't used as slurs against lgbt+ people like all the straight/ male run swearing shows that get a pass (please ignore the fact that she still has homophobia be a thing, even though it adds nothing to the story or make sense world building wise because she made Lucifer a great guy who loves the gays).

I'm sure their are bigoted Vivze critics out there, but the majority I've seen, particularly on tumblr are women or lgbt+ themselves. The reason the swearing comes off badly is because the tones of the shows are childish. I think HB is somewhat better because there are moments where the swearing feels more natural, but in HH most of it felt really forced, as if alot of it was put in simply because Viv wanted to show off that she could use swears. It doesn’t help that in HH sometimes it feels like the swearing is emphasized, which messes again with the flow and makes it stand out as awkward.

It has nothing to do with vivze being a woman or her shows being queer. It has to do with poor execution.

Yep, no matter what the stans say she churned out shit products due to poor writing and lack of willing to take criticism. The bigotry excuse I'd the perfect get out of criticism excuse so they don't confront the many flaws pointed out. She has to be this perfect indie, queer messiah she has in their mind.

[chaifootsteps]

Hello! Just wanted to say I stumbled across your Stolas project, specifically your take of Look My Way. I don't watch Vivzie's work for a variety of reasons, namely for the people she's hurt as well as feeling personally hurt by the way she treats SA as an SA victim. This is to say I have literally never heard the song before -

...And you make it sound gorgeous. I'm terrified to listen to the original, because that octave just sounds so right for the song. Your Stolas project just makes him sound right in general. You really helped sell it as the beautiful song and the beautiful sequence it was supposed to be. I was stunned. Well done!

It also made me think - in a vacuum, Look My Way is a shockingly romantic song? It portrays Stolas and Blitzo as this sort of forbidden gay yearning, more like an operatic romantic tragedy than the inconsistent, initially 'haha sexual abuse funny and also it's okay because stolas is good-hearted right? Also fuck women!' mess it actually is. If I wasn't aware of what their dynamic actually is, I would be wowed by the romanticism and nuance of it all. You really made me think!

So as thanks for your beautiful song remix and the thoughts on what could've been, here's one for you - listen to Spare Hearts by Exit Mouse. Good song all around, but how do you think it sounds for a 'If Blitzo and Stolas were written properly, with a relationship that's actually like how Look My Way makes them appear'?

Oh my lord, Anon, you have no idea how this makes my day! The Stolas Project is one of those little things that exists mostly for myself and even people who are critical of HH/HB tend not to get it, so anytime anyone likes it, I'm over the moon.

(I do think Stolas lost a lot of what made him an appealing character when he lost that deep, rich, velvet voice, and not just because I prefer it. I think he needed to be an older character, but failing that, to at least hold on to that power, that regal authority.)

Thank you again, and I gave Spare Hearts a listen. Definitely going on my playlist of songs that make me think of Instagram!Stolas/Blitz, a ship I miss constantly.

[gay-disabled-characters-showdown]

LGBTQ+ Disabled Characters Showdown Round 1, Wave 5, Poll 15

A character being totally canon LGBTQ+ and disabled was not required to be in this competition. Please check qualifications and propaganda before asking why a character is included.

Check out the other polls in this wave and prior here.

Seven of Nine-Star Trek Voyager and Picard

Qualifications:

She is an ex-borg, and as such needs mechanical prosthetics to function and has PTSD from assimilation. She is canonically gay, and has dated several women in Star Trek Picard.

Propaganda:

She's a space ranger who is a lesbian!! What more could you want?

Submitted by @convenient-plot-device

Kuruto Ryuki-AI: The Somnium Files- Nirvana Initiative

Qualifications:

LGBTQ+: He is canonically bisexual (his romantic feelings for another male character are an important part of the plot, and he has a physical relationship with a different character who’s a woman). Disability: He experiences psychotic episodes as well as/possibly caused by PTSD. While I wouldn’t call it perfect rep, the game treats this with surprising empathy—the other characters are only ever gently concerned about him, which ultimately helps him into a place where he can start managing his symptoms. It’s possibly the only video game I’ve ever seen where a character discusses doing inpatient psychiatric care as a serious option that might save his life, not as a threat or a horror level.

CANONICALLY MLM!! Probably bi but they're very vague about whether he likes women. He definitely has a crush on his cringefail male mentor tho <3 And he canonically has hallucinations and dissociative episodes! Also he's missing an eye and uses a prosthetic eye instead, which feels less notable considering the same can be said for at least 3 other main characters in the games, but he's still disabled!!! I'd also argue he's heavily implied to have PTSD considering a lot of his issues come from trauma.

He is clearly Bisexual, based on both his unrequited love for "Mr. Date" (Kaname Date, who I have also submitted), and his attraction to multiple female characters, including the very difficult to categorize relationship he has with the female sentient A.I. "Tama" that is implanted in his Prosthetic left eyeball (referred to in-universe as an "AI-Ball"). Also, quoting directly from the personality section of his article on the wiki (Spoilers ahead for the game AI: THE SOMNIUM FILES - nirvanA Initiative): "Another of Ryuki's defining traits is his difficulties with mental health. Although generally calm and collected, he is shown to suffer some form of survivor's guilt and PTSD; although he tries to channel his grief into determination for his investigative work, he generally does not handle emotional stress well, and is prone to bouts of depression, obsession, deep self doubt, and self-blame. His struggles initially stemmed from the traumatic loss of his twin brother in a traffic accident in pursuit of a criminal, and his dislike of stopped clocks, and his hatred of criminals originates from the same event. Additionally, as his symptoms appear to worsen as a result of more traumatic events that occurred during the events of the original Half Body Killing investigations (specifically his feelings of guilt over the apparent death of Date and his exposure to [an extremely potent and long-lasting fictional psychoactive drug that was going to be used in a doomsday cult's terrorist plot]), he becomes prone to dissociation, memory lapses, hallucinations, derealization, and even mania. He also appears to be strangely susceptible to the videos tied to the HB-Case (though this was the case even before his exposure to [the fictional psychoactive drug]), as they seem to trigger his dissociative episodes and hallucinations that leave him questioning his sense of reality. All this, in combination with his struggle to accept forgiveness from other people, lead him to spiral easily, and give him the appearance of being self-destructive and even dangerous. However, deep down he is merely a vulnerable person who deeply struggles with guilt and self-worth, and seeks atonement for his mistakes, but doesn't believe he is deserving of it. With the support of others, he is ultimately able to find the will to pull himself out his depression and start to recover."

Propaganda:

(Qualifying answer is also my propaganda!)

He's just... so skrunkly... He's a silly guy with so many problems and relies on the support AI inside his prosthetic eyeball :) He fell in love with a guy and then that guy went missing because of him and he blamed himself for 6 years while his mental health slipped (and it was ALREADY bad before that so... yeah, it really sucks). He's going through it constantly, but he's still funny and loveable and just trying his best ;-;

(In addition to the propaganda below, I highly recommend that the reasoning for his qualification be included in some capacity for propaganda) Ryuki grew up both rich and highly educated until his parents were killed in a plane crash. He was living with his younger brother until his death in 2014 when he was hit by a truck and half of his body was utterly crushed. The only thing Ryuki has left of his deceased parents is a white Rolls Royce Phantom limousine, which he uses as his primary means of transportation. Ryuki always sits in the back seat, with Tama using the car camera to steer the vehicle remotely. As Tama is an AI, the car is technically classified as "self-driving".

Mod Note: this man is known to me as orange man.

[vintage-bentley]

I saw you mention Hazbin Hotel and couldn't help myself... The Charlie/Vaggie situation is even worse if you take into account related show Helluva Boss. The gay/bi men in HB are also plenty sexual and it's shown that the main m/m couple fucks nasty. While lesbians kinda don't exist? Like there's lotta dick jokes in these shows but I don't recall any jokes about scissoring or something. I found the Chaggie relationship cute and even interesting (mainly due to episode 6 spoiler reasons) but the weird desexualisation in a show that's all about hell, murder, drugs and sex (and redemption ig) is so lame. Even if they were just rly private about this stuff (for non-homophobic reasons I'm sure) there could have been at least a "Angel accidentally interupts them when they're having sex (and Vaggie almost murders him for it)" type of joke but nope. (Idc if Charlie is sunshine personified, she can still go down on her gf lol.)

Sorry for sending this to your GO blog 😂

No need to be sorry, I was actually going to make a post asking people to send me their criticisms!! I loved the show but I had issues with it just like I do with everything 😂 I’m picky, especially when it comes to depicting SSA. One of my issues is how Angel is basically the embodiment of what I would describe if I was trying to explain the fetishism of gay men.

I love Helluva boss too, and that’s part of why I was so annoyed by Charlie and Vaggie’s situation. One of my gripes with that show is the lack of lesbians (I can’t remember if there’s bi women, I know the creator has her own headcanons of everyone’s sexuality) and F/F relationships. Considering how Blitzø/Stolas is so sexualised, I can’t help but feel like it’s a classic case of “wow I love gay men so much!! Anyway did I tell you about how a lesbian looked in my general direction today? Gross, right?”.

And omg you’re so right about the dick jokes. They’re EVERYWHERE. But pussy jokes are pretty rare, and they never come from a woman if they do pop up. I think that has a lot to do with how normalised it is to talk and joke about penis, while vulvas are still considered fairly taboo.

There’d be so many ways to make some sort of sex joke with Charlie/Vaggie…I love your idea with Angel 😂

Charlie being the “sunshine” type would make it even funnier imo. You know how she blurts swear words and it’s kind of a shock? I can see that also happening with some sex comment.

This just isn’t the show for a sanitised lesbian relationship imo. If the creator wanted that, she should’ve made Charlie/Vaggie a couple in Heaven. But in Hell with everybody constantly talking about sex? It stands out like a sore thumb and honestly seems cowardly. The fact that the only mention of them fucking so far has been from the misogynist chad character really rubs me the wrong way, too. I love Charlie and Vaggie, I think they’re adorable. So I really want them to escape this trap of being all “teehee we’re girls and we hold hands” .

[woomycritiques543]

I don't mind loona but I wish she was black and not white coded for the "sake of being goth because white people go goth trope" I wanted to see Viv make a black female main character and tell us a story through her lens as a black character. I felt it could be interesting because she's a hellhound and vortex is also there and hellhounds are basically treated as unequal or like animals especially being locked up in cages or are used as slaves such as bodyguards or whatever. We could've told so many black stories that need to be told with a black female lead for the community. Sadly Loona is white and I wished for her to be black to tell black stories for our representation as black people but I mean... We got what we got out of Viv and she's horrible at representing many things not just gay characters but POC characters that also get 0 representation, pushed to the background or have like two character traits as mains especially the women characters she refuses to make groundbreaking.

TW: RACISM.

Actually-

Please dont make the abusive fetishized caricature black.

Please dont.

I get telling black stories but with a character like Loona and how she acts animalistic in the story and is treated like one by even the creators with how she acts compared to the others who just act like regular people for the most part besides occasional sounds, hell, they get to go to regular doctors- including imps! But not hellhounds, and this is all played off as a joke about her situation, no sympathy, just outright playing it off as a "cute joke!" that she's constantly discriminated and treated like an animal, only giving her sympathy for a "white/non-black" savior story with Blitzo?!

The show tries to present how she's treated in Ep 5 as "cute" too, not even once does Blitz say "Excuse me, my daughter is not a dog- take her somewhere else or you're gonnna get it!" as instead the story is played straight and she's even physically abused by Blitz by being slammed to the ground in this episode, is treated like an animal more than usual just because she's mute (ableism), and not once does the episode address how abusive Blitz is towards her, how they put a cone on her head as a "joke! haha cone of shame she's like an animal for being the worst treated minority in the show harhar!" (badly done/racist racism allegory), Blitz even goes in the first episode "YOU GET A TREAT NOW! :)"- Blitz treats her like an animal, M & M treat her like an animal, the creators treat her like an animal, and they play it off as "cute!" instead of disturbing like it should have been at all times instead of just for a "non-black savior" story, it comes off as unintentionally racist as a racial allegory as they're presenting the minority's situation as "cute!" with the "you get a treat now!" scene and episode 5 of s2 being used as yet another excuse to treat her like an animal and have her act animalistically just because she's the lowest social tier as despite being raised by Blitz, Loona full on goes on all fours, is whistled to and is given treats. HB presents this as a "she's a hellhound/black person -they're born this way, give her a treat lol!" (racism) and it's mostly shown as a "joke!"

It's "Loona goes Feral" at: 0:42. The floor literally fucking breaks, she's outright physically abused here, is treated like an animal by Blitz constanstly, and the "white savior" is treated like "the hero" for it and she's made out to be "the animal" (both in how Loona acts and with how she is treated) in the situation just because she was born as the equivalent of a black person in the hierarchy- If this isn't the most racist racism allegeory I have ever seen in a show, I dont know what is. Look at the thumbnail, they even gave her rabies, and this is supposed to the "the black part of the social hierachy since they're the ones that are the lowest area and are enslaved." wtf?! She even acts even more like an animal at a time where she can't speak just because she's the show's version of a black person. While Stolas acts 99% human and goes to a hospital just because he's not a hellhound, in the same ep, despite being also a furry, while just because Loona is the equivalent of a black person in HB's universe, she's treated like an animal for being the lowest social tier minority, plus acts like one more than the other characters, despite being raised by a character with almost zero animalistic behaviors, just because she was born as the show's equivalent of a black woman- as a "joke." They treat her just like an animal by whistling for her, bargaining her with treats, putting a vet collar on her (the hellhound equivalent of chains!) and threw her to the fucking ground and the show presents all of this as "cute!" or "ok!". The writers only make her act as if she's "more" of an animal not for how she's raised, but just because she was born as a hellhound (black woman) and this is played off as "she acts more animal-like because she's bla- a hellhound!" and treat her like a dog too, and what makes it even more racist is that it's all treated like a "joke!" in every single ep whenever it's something about her!

-and just to make this worse, Loona is characterized as an abuser of her family (abusive black woman stereotype) and all of this is being played off as a "joke" to mock the fact that she's the show's equivalent to an enslaved black person- mocking the fact that she's the lowest tier in the social hierarchy and mocking how she's treated like an animal, and having her act like an animal just because she's a minority and to make it worse, all of which is treated like a "joke!", and this is only taken seriously once for a white savior story!

How does no one realize how racist this "racism allegory" is?! Also, the creator supported blackface and lied about having done so as a coverup instead of actually apologizing and then hired a writer that likes to use black stereotypes in his content- so she's genuinely a racially insensitive person! It's awful!

[fizzbot]

I literally just sent you one but what if. You did more. For me? :3333

9, 10, 11, 12, 18, 20, 21, 22, 24 VIOLENCE (please do not look at how I spelled it in the last one) ask game <333

3, 4, 13, 17 (This time with Octavia), 18 (Striker), 22 (Husk), 24 (This time with Fizz), 25 (This time with Charlie) for the other fandom ask game :333

JKLDHFJKLSDFHJKL NO ITS OK I LOVE GIVING YOU MY THINKIES!!!!!!!!!! :DDDDD lets do this!!!!!!!! >:333333

violence ask game og post here!

9. worst part of canon for hh, its the valangel plotline. god its so bad. you cant have a silly joke character also be a horrific abuser, you have to pick one. also dont hire rape fetish artists to handle a very real?? issue?? hello??? for hb,,,,,i gotta pick the same vein and give it to stolitz. I KNOW I KNOW i bitched a lot about them in the last answer post but JKLSDFJKLHJKf IT MAKES ME SO MAD. especially bc (much like hazbin) the original plot of the story is SO FUCKING GOOD. a group of low-ranking hell creatures run an illegal business where the access the human realm??? ARE YOU KIDDING ME. THATS SO GOOD. i love that its a direct parallel to hazbin's "solving the overpopulation" main plot JKLSHDFJKLDS ITS SO FUNNY AND SO PERFECT AND WE WERE ROBBED IN BOTH SHOWS FOR VIVZIES STUPID FUCKING FETISH BAIT

10. worst part of fanon the vivzie dickriders are so goddamn annoying. ive noticed that this is kind of a trend in any media that has a large "critic" audience. like it also totally happened with miraculous ladybug. but for some reason when a bunch of people hate on the show bc it sucks, mostly bc the creator also sucks, it spawns a parallel group of people who will defend anything and everything about it. like there are people who devote entire blogs and accounts to ""disproving"" vivzie allegations (which no one has ever done successsfully btw bc she did all of the shit shes being accused of). and theres people who will defend every shitty plotpoint and piece of bad writing and leave no room for nuance. like, yes, im critical of the shows, but i can admit theres good in them. obviously i enjoy them enough to have a sideblog for them. but like. these people dont understand that its GOOD to critisize media, ESPECIALLY media that you like. its important to acknowledge when certain trends can be seen in the work, because otherwise youre going to be more susceptible to being negatively influenced. like, vivzie has history of antiblackness/racism/antisemitism. is it a coincidence that these people are horribly misrepresented in the show?

11. number of fandom-related words you've filtered only 2 related to the hellaverse actually!! but ive had to put a whole bunch of different variants/spellings. i have radioapple and adamsapple blocked just cause theyre the most prevalent ships that i dont like.

12. the unpopular character that you actually like and why more people should like them MIMZY. i fucking love her SO MUCH!!!!!! :DDDDDDDD part of why i despise radioapple and its shippers so much is bc so much of the fandom hates her for ""interrupting their moment"". SHUT THE FUCK UP shes the best part of their song and also the best girl and shes so pretty and cute and youre all WRONG for hating her!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! light of my life <333333333 spinoff show about just mimzy immediately

18. it's absolutely criminal that the fandom has been sleeping on... rosie x mimzy :(((((((( they dont even have a proper, fully agreed upon shipname. i thought you all loved old women yuri :/// also POLYVEES????? i am SOOOOO sick of the ""vel and her gay dads"" shit. it is so goddamn annoying. VOX CALLS HER "MY DEAR". VAL CALLS HER "BABYDOLL." theyre all fucking.

20. part of canon you found tedious or boring honestly? all of hazbin. the heaven arc was just SO rushed and still felt like the same thing was happening every episode. helluva never/hasnt become tedious to me just bc its so much more episodic i think

21. part of canon you think is overhyped the fuckin. shipping. stolitz in helluva is SOOOOOO hyped and for NOTHING and the whole war was hyped in hazbin and yet was also so incredibly nothing. OH AND PENTIOUS' REDEMPTION??? everyones acting like its the most interesting plot twist ever as if it doesnt suck objectively

22. your favorite part of canon that everyone else ignores loona and via ://// the only time i see them talked about is when people are shipping them which is gross. i really really really want to see more of them and have them be developed more and given personalities outside their shitty fathers.

24. topic that brings up the most rancid discourse VALANGEL. OH MY GODDDDDDDDD i fucking HATE hearing ""hot takes"" about that arc. THEYRE NEVER HOT TAKES. EVER. theyre just excusing vals actions or excusing VIVS actions in making it. I HATE IT SO MUCH

fandom ask game og post here!

3. NoTP? OOH. i have a bunch. ummm. literally any striker ship that isnt blitzker. striker x chaz, striker x moxxie, striker x millie, striker x sallie, striker x stella, etc etc i could literally list them all day. i hate all of them. every single one cannot work without mischaracterizing him to hell. he works with blitz because theyre equals and they LIKE EACH OTHER. OH DUH radioapple!!!! literally biggest NOTP ever i fucking hate them. i hate adamsapple, and cherrisnake, anddddd.......there are obviously more but im blanking. some i dislike for more innocent reasons. like any ship with tex and/or any ship with sallie? i hate all of them just because those characters are so. Nothing. they have 0 substance apart from being sexualized

4. Is there a popular pairing you don't necessarily dislike but aren't too invested in? OH well i guess i kinda answered this above hsdjkf. i guess my hottest take is fallenstar (chaggie) and m&m. i simply do not give a shit about them. i care a LITTLE more for vega n charlie, but like. pretty much JUST because theyre sapphic. what does m&m have going for them, they are literally textbook boring married couple. who give a shit

13. What's a character or ship you haven't written/drawn yet but would like to some day? sjkdfhjksdf ive doodled them beforrreeeee but ive gotta draw more verbie <////3 im thinkin about making a finished piece for them they are CUTE.......otherwise i think ive drawn/written about like everyone i care for sjkdfhjsdkf

17. What's a book, movie, or show you think [Octavia] would like? AWW this is cute....ummmm!!!!! a piece of lore i just made up for her is that i think shes rlly interested in human culture. like she likes movies from earth, and literature from up there, so on and so forth <3333 shes really into horror movies but specifically the old and bad ones <3333 she will rattle off 100000 facts to you about how they made that fake blood for that scene or "did you know they used a REAL chainsaw?". i think she has an affinity for the macabre BUT i also think she has a bit of a soft spot. she was kind of robbed of a proper childhood a little bit (as were most goetians) so shes a sucker for sappy soft stuff too. she casually watches mlp or care bears and plays lots of minecraft and terraria <3

18. Type [Striker's]'s name and tell us what the autocomplete suggests as the next word shjkdfhjksdfhjkfsd ok so i wasnt sure whether this meant using google autocomplete or phone autocomplete. i tried google first and my only result was 'striker helluva boss' cause thats what i google for art ref. but then i tried it on my phone and. uh........................................................................this is so embarassing. i pulled out my phone and pressed the middle autocomplete button a few times and it landed on 'striker tying up blitzos arms'...........LISTEN. IT WAS BECAUSE I WAS WRITING DOWN THIS ART IDEA AND IT REMEMBERED. WHY DID IT REMEMBER

22. Give us a headcanon for [Husk] UMMMM!!!!!!! it is so muc harder to come up with these for characters i dont relate to as much..........i am so sorry but i have literally thought for so long and cant come up with anything that you havent already said <////////////////////333

24. What's your favourite thing about [Fizz]? i remember really not thinking anything of it at the time but i LOVE the transition of how he is in public/at ozzies to how he is at home!!!! its really interesting to see him soften up and i think theres a lot to be said about the persona he puts on in public that i just KNOW the show isnt gonna explore. i dont think hes the. best anxiety rep, but i do think there are moments where its compelling. OH and i LOVE watching his energy bounce off blitz, its super fun :3

25. What's your least favourite thing [Charlie] said or did? grgghgg ohh girl,,,,,you had so much wasted potential ://// this is a lot more nitpicky than my answer for stolas but its easily that one moment in ep 4. where she WHINES and CRIES like a BABY over angel and vega carries her away. the infantilization is SOOOO irritating, esp bc literally in the NEXT EPISODES they try to portray her as a strong and confident good leader???? its so pathetic and SO frustrating especially when she could easily make it up to angel by KILLING HIS RAPIST.

WAHHHJSKDFHJKLD THANKS FOR ASKINGGGGG i love getting out all my thinkies :33333

[actual-sleeping-beauty]

sorry but it's just like. exceedingly fucking clear to me that republican controlled state legislatures across the country are testing how far they can go right now. bills like tennessee house bill 0009, kentucky house bill 173, and kentucky senate bill 150 are intended to see how far the current political and judicial climate will allow them to restrict the rights of queer people. republicans did this for a little over a decade before they got roe overturned. (source: the first heartbeat bill was filed in ohio in 2011.)

they are setting up to challenge obergefell and lawrence v. texas. the majority opinion of roe cites the due process clause of the fourteenth amendement, arguing that abortion bans violate a right to privacy. obergefell guarantees the right of same-sex couples to marry through the due process clause and the equal protection clause of the fourteenth amendment. the majority opinion argues that marriage is a private decision the state cannot intrude on, citing loving v. virginia (also based on the due process and equal protection clauses of the fourteenth amendment). the equal protection clause protects same-sex couples from being barred from marrying while their opposite-sex peers can marry freely. the majority opinion of lawrence v. texas cites the due process clause as granting same-sex couples a "protected liberty interest" to have private sexual relations. in a concurrence, justice sandra day o'connor cites the equal protection clause as the reason gay sex should be decriminalized. (note: in some states only same sex intercourse between men was criminalized. in others same sex intercourse between women was also criminalized. in still others anal sex was criminalized regardless of whether the participants were of the same or opposite sex. the texas law being challenged in lawrence criminalized anal and oral sex between men only. the lawrence case made it legal for same-sex couple to have sex for the first time in FOURTEEN STATES. that's 28% of the country.)

bills like tn hb 0009 (which would criminalize "male or female impersonators" (i.e. drag performers) from performing in public; a second offense would be a FELONY), ky hb 173 (a don't say gay bill that would "establish limitations on school personnel related to instruction and discussion on sexual orientation, sexual preference, or gender expression," among other fucked up things), and ky sb 150 (which would force schools to out trans and nonbinary kids to their parents and prohibit schools from making teachers use kids' preferred pronouns) are clearly pushing at the limits of legality. they are trying to get the supreme court to uphold these laws when they are challenged so the conservative supreme court can say that according to historical precedent (cited in overturning roe) and publicly agreed upon morality (cited in bowers v. hardwick, a case that upheld georgia's sodomy law in 1986, which also cited historical precedent). whether publicly agreed upon morality actually condemns queer people is unlikely to matter, given the current leanings of the court.

this is all to say: we have to start paying very close attention. a felony charge means you can't vote. they are trying to make sure we can't vote. we have to start calling our legislators. we have to start engaging our politically unengaged friends. we have to. they are coming for us. they are playing the long game. we need to too.

i spent multiple hours researching this and i would appreciate reblogs. it feels like we have come to this crisis point so quickly. obergefell isn't even a decade old. we cannot be comfortable and we must act.

[justinspoliticalcorner]

Erin Reed at Erin In The Morning:

The pace of anti-transgender legislation has slowed in recent weeks, with several states, known for previously targeting transgender individuals, failing to pass any such laws. However, a different dynamic is emerging across the Gulf South, where three states are advancing bills that would cease the legal recognition of transgender individuals, potentially having significant repercussions for their trans residents. Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama are introducing bills to define sex in a manner that excludes transgender individuals, potentially affecting birth certificates, driver's licenses, bathroom access, and more. The bills, dubbed the "Women’s Bills of Rights" by their supporters, fall far short of actually protecting women’s rights. They fail to protect access to birth control or abortion, do not ensure equitable pay, neither allocate funds for nor promote women's athletics, and lack any provisions designed to curb violence against women. Instead, they categorize sex based on reproductive capabilities and ends legal recognition of transgender individuals' gender identities.

In Louisiana, House Bill 608 was introduced with a staggering 63 Republican co-sponsors, signaling a strong opposition to any efforts to lobby against the bill. While its primary focus seems to be on restricting bathroom access in schools, prisons, and shelters, a particular section of the bill indicates that “any provision of law enacted by the legislature or any rule adopted by a state agency or other entity subject to the Administrative Procedures Act when applicable to an individual's sex shall apply those definitions provided in R.S. 9:58.” This provision could lead to the banning of changes to birth certificates and driver's licenses, effectively ending all legal recognition for transgender individuals. The bill has not yet been scheduled for a hearing, but given the substantial support it has garnered, its progression through the legislative process is anticipated to be swift once it begins.

In Mississippi, Senate Bill 2753 and House Bill 1607 have successfully passed their respective chambers. House Bill 1607 defines sex based on reproductive capacity, and puzzlingly states that for transgender individuals, "equal" does not mean "same" or "identical." Notably, the bill does not provide a definition for "equal," a term also left undefined in similar legislation in other states. This ambiguity sparked debate over a comparable bill in Iowa, which is currently stalled in the legislature there in part because of disagreements over that line. As for Senate Bill 2753, it would ban bathroom access for transgender individuals in publicly owned facilities, such as rest stops and the Jackson airport.

In Alabama, House Bills 111 and 130 similarly target transgender individuals. House Bill 111 specifies sex based on reproductive capacity for all vital statistics purposes. Meanwhile, HB 130, although not directly defining sex, will reportedly be amended to add language that extends "Don't Say Gay" legislation to Space Camp. This addition comes after conservative media expressed outrage over a transgender individual being employed at the state's renowned Space Camp and could be used to target transgender employees in state facilities.

So far, only five states have passed similar legislation: Kansas, Montana, North Dakota, Tennessee, and Utah. In Kansas, a judge has recently ruled in favor of Attorney General Kris Kobach that drivers licenses and birth certificates must contain transgender people’s old assigned sex at birth, citing the law there. Meanwhile, although such a law does not exist in Florida, rule changes have resulted in a lack of ability for transgender people to change their drivers licenses; reportedly, Florida residents are unable to change their birth certificates as well. Additionally, Oklahoma and Nebraska have executive orders defining sex similarly.

3 Southern states-- Mississippi, Louisiana, and Alabama-- are pushing forward plans to pass trans erasure bills that are deceitfully named the "Women's Bill Of Rights" to enact a rigid definition of "sex" into law based on the gender assigned at birth.

[chaifootsteps]

One more thing about viv. She is an anomaly to me. She's sexist/misogynistic as hell to other women. Pretty much dismisses their existence in her work. She worships men and penis (see HB and HH). But then she hates FtM ppl though because they "gave up on being women/weren't proud of being women". Girl, FUCK YOU. Then one could mistake her for homophobic with all of these terrible stereotypes (and writing) surrounding gay (or queer) men. She is so gross when it comes to gay relationships between men and even more gross with effeminate dudes.

That's all i got at the moment. There were more contradictions (or just plain weird views) I've seen her display when it comes to cis men, cis women, trans ppl, femme guys, etc. but this doesn't need to get too long.

This is just speculation on my part, but I think Vivzie's got one foot in 2023 queer friendly Twitter politics and the other in 2010s internet culture where it was considered a lot more acceptable to make rape jokes and hate openly on "SJWs" and any demographic you disliked, and I think her heart leans more towards the latter. She could lean into it, but it would change her audience and reputation forever and I don't think she wants to do that.

She's a California limousine liberal with the soul of a 4channer and the brain of a 14 year old yaoi fangirl. It's a recipe for disaster.

[shouldwefeelguilty]

Fanart for all the HicSqueak lovers :)

Yes I know they are the same weight but the drawing has its own mind I’m sorry

[woomycritiques543]

Viv also made two “black women” angels light freaken’ gray. No brown! They’re angels that are meant to look humanoid- So there’s no excuse! This is just colorism! It’s like Vivziepop wanted brownie points for “including” black characters without including our skin, our culture, or anything that’s “black” besides just “calling” someone black or sometimes making us darker. People said Vivziepop was “right” for saying ZiZi was whitewashing (and she is, but that’s besides the point.), but then she whitewashes over half her poc characters as light grey while making one purple, a common censorship of black skin, on top of all the humanoid “black” characters being light grey while the other humanoid characters in Hazbin Hotel are literal white people. No 🍑, no 🫒, but literal white skin. As white as she can make them.

The ocs from other Hazbin/Helluva artists that are black for the show being:

“Coco” (literally Named after her skin color 💀) “Milky”, and *internally cringes*- “RAT!” are brown or dark reddish brown, and most are demons- so Vivziepop 100% has no excuse for how colorist and “white savior” (Charlie, a literal white woman with blonde hair trying to “save” a majority poc cast of a “evil voodoo” black man who is a cannibal, a walking gay stereotype (not poc but still an example of how many stereotypes there truly is.), and an asain who’s obsessed with being clean and who’s story taking place in the 50s (when not all women from back then were like that, women werent originally “boy toys” so what is this logic even for?) as an excuse to make her “boy crazy and genki!”) that Hazbin Hotel’s execution is. All the black characters are depicted as whitewashed, have straight hair, or a cliche afro, are given demeaning names, are “sexual deviants who molest people”, or are “cannibals”. While M/M in Hazbin and HB are almost always stereotyped as “predatory creeps” who have only relationships where they sexually take advantage of the other partner or also molest random people. The only people given mostly healthy relationships are men who are with women. (Stella and Stolas only being a thing as an excuse to overshadow Stolas’s abuse of Blitz (before you assume anything, please read the other posts where ive mentioned this.)

People giving the excuse of “They’re in hell! They’re supposed to be evil!” to deliberately ignore said issues so these stereotypes can continue to appear for their own benefit. When the problem isn’t that these are demons who are bad people in a cartoon about Hell- The problem is that the show’s location is being used as an excuse to depict those minorities as stereotypes specific to them (EX: A black person being depicted as a “cannibal”) rather than to mainly show them as anything else that’s considered as “evil.” It’s just being used as an excuse to show them as such stereotypes, further enabling people who discriminate us- Which is why you see so many racists and homophobes defending the show: It enables the very stereotypes that they themselves created to discriminate against our communities/minorities.

Again- Vivienne has so much potential. But instead of growing as a person or a creator, she has her parasocial fandom keep enabling her behavior/her biases while not being willing to grow, let alone listen to the other parts of her audience (unless to virtue signal to make us look bad) since she’d rather look “good” or “perfect” to her fans or to enable her own ignorance to laugh at other minorities or body shapes regardless is it harms other people’s representation or not. Velvette only being a piece of the millions of problems with this  franchise that Vivziepop refuses to fix.

All that potential… out the window.

The way Velvette is portrayed in Hazbin Hotel doesn't sit well with me.

To preface I am a fan of Hazbin Hotel and am looking forward to the show so-so. I want to clarify I mean no hate to Viv and her team, she has a creative mind even though her design choices are sometimes lacking to me. But this has been on my mind for a while especially as a poc.

Velvette has been a character ive enjoyed for the the longest time since her debut in the pilot. Even though her quick appearance she drew my attention for an unknow reason but she's just ah I love her. When I found out she was a poc and was into alternative fashion it drew me more to her as growing up I couldn't express myself in such clothes as it didn't suite my skin tone enough. Was never white enough or coloured enough (thats my race). I told my sister how I liked Velvette and she said she doesn't because of how she looks and it made me think. Velvette in all my relating to her lacks the representation I hoped she'd give others like she did me but she doesn't. Viv as much as I like her designs, underdesigned Velvette. She lacks poc features, what I mean by this is her skin tone mostly. I know she's a demon but I've see so many dark skinned monsters, demons, creatures that far surpasses Velvette. Her skin tone is this light brown- grey colour dispite being a black woman in her pitch bible (yes I saw it and I know lighter skinned black people exist but even so Velvette is so racially ambiguous point blank like many of Vivziepop's po characters and plus, her skin tone isn't even really a skin tone, its giving anime "dark/brown skin tones"), its lackluster actually and I wished it were different because I'm sure Viv has black/dark skinned design members on her team but no input from them was added to Velvette's design. Viv I understand is a poc but she is like me a lighter skinned poc, I myself have a difficult time drawing darker skinned characters and I know how Viv doesn't leave her comfort zone of character traits so it leaked into Velvette being such an under respresentation to black people/ dark skinned people. Her hair is also my end, Viv in all my years of following her has never experimented with poc hair textures/styles. It took so much more away from Velvette as a black woman with the hair style/texture she has now (I know black woman or woc can have straight hair but due to the embrace of more natural hair textures it would've been beautiful to see Velvette with a more natural hair texture). AGAIN Viv should've reached out to other designers for their input on her but no, its Viv's "character" (even though she doesn't technically own it anymore) and nobody can make such changes as its not in her vision/comfort zone.

Another thing I want to add is Viv's problem infantailising certain characters. I've seen it with Angel Dust, Niffty, Stolas and now Velvette and its not sitting well with me.

According to Velvette's pitch bible she is a 30 year old black woman, a *grown adult* who is also in the adult industry, cool.

This is a post by one of Vivziepop's staff members Sam, who also happens to be one of Vivziepop's closest friends too. They made a post comparing Velvette's to a certain character dynamic:

What the hell were they thinking. VELVETTE IS A 30 YEAR OLD BLACK WOMAN WHO WORKS IN THE PORN INDUSTRY AND YOU ARE COMPARING HER TO A PARENT/CHILD DYNAMIC!

TW:

She is involved in the adult industry along with Vox and Val. Valentino is shown to be a misogynistic man who is abusive, a rápist and much more, Vox similar. Velvette being involved with them isn't my issue, she's not a good person ha hell she probably condones their actions as she's an antagonist like them. The problem is I've seen Viv doesn't know the difference between a childish adult character and an adult character who is treated like a child and extention encouraged to be treated like one. Velvette has a childish fun personality thats all, that gives no reason to why she is treated like Vox and Valentino's child, SHE'S 30!

Fans and critics have pointed out how they keep seeing this problem how Viv portrays her characters. It creates a breeding ground for the fetishsization of these characters in a disgusting way. The amout of art I've seen depicting Velvette as their child is disturbing and TW: the amount of lòli art I have seen of her on unsavoury websites is just... I cannot. Just because of her personality she is being treated and seen as a child. I will not go into how woman of colour when reaching a certain age of development are not seen as children anymore even when they still are (we'll be here all day, its boils my blood I hate) but what Viv is doing is not right either.

In conclusion (since I lost my 1st draft aaah not typing that long again). Velvette is a good example to me of a poc character with lost potential. Viv had the power and choice to allow other poc creatives to give their input on her but simply didn't. She holds on to these characters so dearly and I understand she doesn't want to loose them, they are like her children. But they aren't anymore, she needed to let them be changed into their best version but alas no. Viv whether she likes it or not is in the mainstream now thanks to partnering with A24.

The audience has changed, we want to see better representation in media: various skin tones, sexualities, different body types, hair textures, even disabilities. Viv as a bisexual woc had the opportunity to give us so much more but didn't even knowing thats what audiences seek, like Velvette for example that's what I seeked and thought I saw but my rose tinted glasses got taken off by my sister and I saw what I saw wasn't all that.

You have the capabilities Viv, you have the resources, you have everything layed out in front of you to give us this why did you not, the boundaries were not pushed. Brake from your comfort zone, seek others inputs and criticism because if you go on like this you may fail. I've followed you for the longest time but not many times have you experimented with different body types, various skin tones and hair textures... no comment. I'll still support Viv's work and decide if I'll still be invested in it after Hazbin drops but I'm cautiously optimistic right now. Only wishing more grown for Viv, peace.

[invisibleanonymousmonsters]

Hb combining 1 w 37 in which steve (or bucky) is trying to mention that theyre a mobster but get interrupted by the rival gang and they have to run & end up in an alley 👀👀

1.  here’s people chasing us and I pulled you into the alley with me and wow you’re close

37. We’re dating and I didn’t know you were a mobster/biker

Y/N found Steve so peculiar.

This was their fifth date and Steve hadn’t so much as kissed Y/N on the cheek. He’d given her a hug after their second date, but it had been Y/N who even initiated it. Steve had placed his hand protectively on her back on their first date when a homeless man was yelling crazily on the sidewalk and started eyeing Y/N.

However, Y/N wasn’t mad about it. She was just so taken aback from it. Steve acted like men from a time when gentlemen were expected, not a rarity.

She actually preferred this slow burn. It took her awhile to trust people, men especially. Without trust, she wasn’t comfortable with intimacy, particularly physical intimacy.

Y/N just wasn’t sure if she were misreading Steve’s politeness for disinterest. Or maybe he was in the closet still, and refused to realize that maybe women weren’t for him.

But if Steve wasn’t actually interested in her, why had he insisted on taking her to dinner tonight and having their fifth date?

“I was grounded for a month after that. Mom didn’t take too kindly to me beating someone up, even if he was an asshole who was making fun of my best friend for being gay.” She told him with a nostalgic smile. 

Steve looked at her over the candlelit dinner with a amused smirk and pride in his eyes.

“Remind me never to get on your bad side,” he chuckled before taking another sip of his whiskey.

“You? I would never touch a hair on your head.”

His brows raised in surprise. “Yeah? And why is that?”

“You wouldn’t hurt a fly, Steve. I can’t even imagine you losing your temper, let alone getting into a physical fight.”

His amusement dropped for a second. But he kept his cool composure.

“Well, certainly not with you,” was all he answered back. That way he didn’t feel like he was lying. No, he’d never harm her. He struggled with even imagining a scenario where he’d lose his temper with Y/N.

The dinner as a whole was almost comically pleasant and…comfortable. Y/N had never felt that unsureness or awkwardness on any of her dates with Steve that were so common in her dating life.

Steve felt like a friend first, which took all the pressure off for Y/N and made her feel like she could just be herself.

After splitting two different desserts and espresso, the waitress brought the check directly to Steve. He thanked her by using her name, which made Y/N wonder how often he came to this particular restaurant.

Steve never let her pay for literally anything: dinner, drinks, coffee. If he thought it was too late for her to take the subway home alone, he would pay for a taxi or another ride service.

Y/N tried not to let her feminist mind get upset about it. But the way Steve went about it was so smooth and unbothered that she didn’t feel like there was something expected of her in return.

“Thanks for meeting me for dinner,” he told her sweetly as helped with her jacket and lead them to the restaurant’s exit.

“Yeah, my presence is always sought after… you’re lucky I could fit you into my demanding schedule,” she answered back so sarcastically that made him chuckle in return.

When they stepped outside, the most beautiful flurry had started. It didn’t stick to the ground and it didn’t make the air any colder. It just fell like a prop in a movie.

Y/N looked up at the sky and then smiled at Steve.

“You up for a little walk?” She asked, not ready to leave his side quite yet.

There was still so much mystery around him. She needed to solve it before she conjured up any false ideas about him.

He smiled back. “A walk sounds great.”

With Steve’s old-school manners, Y/N half expected him to offer his arm to her. But they simply walked side by side, their hands in the pockets of their coats to keep them warm.

“Are you keeping something from me?” Y/N finally blurted out after they had walked in comfortable silence for some time.

His brow furrowed. “What?”

She stopped walking and turned to face him. “You’re too perfect, Steve. You’re polite. You manage to make me feel like a lady, and just an actual respected human being. You ask me genuine questions. You pay for everything like it’s the 1930s. You haven’t tried to prematurely cop a feel – which I oddly appreciate, by the way.”

She took in a deep breath after she listed everything so quickly. “What’s your flaw, huh?”

Steve just shifted his weight.

“Are you married?”

His eyes widened. “What? No! Of course not.”

“Then do you have a girlfriend?” Y/N countered.

“No, Y/N. I’m not even seeing anyone else. Just you.”

“Are you gay?” Y/N regretted it the moment the words came out of her mouth.

Steve actually laughed at that. “I can assure you that I’m not.”

Y/N was about to continue her interrogation when Steve’s gaze went past her shoulder, clearly catching something behind her.

He muttered a curse under his breath. It was the first time she had ever heard him swear.

Without giving any warning or explanation, Steve quickly grabbed a hold a of her hand and pulled her into the nearest alleyway. Y/N yelped at the surprise of it all.

She was just about to ask what the hell was going on when she realized how close Steve was to her.

Her back was pressed against the cold brick of the building.

Meanwhile, Steve’s face was mere inches from hers.

He had yet to invade her personal space in such a way. And to Y/N’s surprise, her heart was racing from the thrill of it all instead of the anxiety it usually induced when other men did such a thing.

Steve’s eyes flickered to her lips and then dug into her gaze.

How did such a look make Y/N feel more vulnerable than any time she’d ever been naked with a man?

“Sorry–It’s just–I saw someone I knew,” he explained lamely.

Y/N nodded. “Oh, yeah? Ex-girlfriend?”

He didn’t laugh at the joke, just shook his head. “No, no.” Then he winced. “Look, I can’t – I really don’t want to lie to you.”

“Then don’t,” she retorted a bit harshly.

“I haven’t lied to you about who I am. I just conveniently left out a bit about my work.”

Y/N chuckled. “What? Are you gonna now tell me you’re some kind of New York gangster or something?”

Steve didn’t laugh once again. He swallowed. His eyes held all the answers Y/N needed.

“Holy shit,” she gasped. “You are.”

He said nothing.

It made sense, which was why Y/N knew he wasn’t pulling so weird prank on her. The money he seemed to have a plethora of. The suaveness and confident air around him. His perfectly tailored clothes.

This was the thing that made Y/N question his genuineness.

Y/N glanced back out at the sidewalk. “So, who exactly are we hiding from then? A rival gang or some shit?”

“It’s not that simple,” Steve sighed. “My…occupation… makes me more enemies than friends.”

“Did we just avoid a shootout or stabbing?” Y/N almost laughed at how ridiculous the question sounded.

“No, of course not. We’re not sloppy.” Steve pinched the bridge of his nose. “I didn’t-I can’t have them see you. As soon as they get a look at you – or the way I look at you, for that matter – they’ll…” His words died out.

His eyes softened as he stared at her. “I’m sorry I didn’t tell you sooner. I didn’t really know how, to be honest. Most of the women I’ve been with had an idea of who I was before agreeing to a date.”

Y/N put her hand to Steve’s chest and forced him back a few steps.

The new space between them felt like a galaxy. 

“If this isn’t some fucked up joke–”

“It’s no joke, Y/N.” Steve interrupted her.

She took a step away from him, walking backwards slowly but keeping his stare. “So, if I walk away right now…does that end with me at the bottom of the East River?” Her voice was shaking. 

Steve’s face turned crestfallen as he realized that Y/N was now scared of him, even convinced he would kill her.

“Y/N, please believe me…I’d never hurt–I’d never touch you.”

For some reason, she believed him.

But that wasn’t enough.

She started shaking her head, still tiptoeing backwards. “I’m sorry, Steve. I-I can’t.”

“Can’t what?” He challenged.

“I can’t be some mobster wife… or-or-or whatever I’d be to you.���

Steve’s head fell. All his exact fears were coming true. Fears that had grown when he realized he had started falling for Y/N. 

“I understand,” he replied evenly, even though it hurt like hell to say it.

“I’m sorry.” She was at the end of the alley again.

Did the moonlight and flurry have to frame her face so beautifully? Was this his punishment for all the terrible things he’s done?

“You don’t have to keep saying that,” he muttered. “I should be the one apologizing.”

Y/N just nodded shakily. “Goodbye, Steve.”

Then she turned and rounded the corner, leaving the alleyway and Steve’s sight.

He sighed and rubbed his face. His heart was beating so fast that he swore it was starting to hurt. He started pacing in the shadows of the alley, trying to control his emotions.

His back was turned to sidewalk when he heard the click of her heels hurriedly returning.

He whipped around.

And before he could ask her what the hell she was doing, her lips crashed to his.

Steve instantly reciprocated, clutching her face and pulling her even closer

He’d wanted to know what her lips tasted like as soon as he had seen her for the first time. But she scared the hell out of him and he tried to be a patient gentleman.

Y/N’s fingers weaved through his hair, tugging even, and it only drove Steve crazier.

Steve even let her shove him back against the alley wall.

His grip was tight and possessive against her waist.

Y/N couldn’t help but wonder what his grip would feel like against her naked skin.

Then she snapped out of it and quickly broke the kiss.

However, they lingered. Both of them were trying to catch their breath. It was the only sound in the alley. 

Steve pressed his forehead against hers.

And suddenly his hunger turned into a softness, a need for her.

But he knew what this was. And it wasn’t Y/N changing her mind.

“I’m sorry.” Y/N heaved. “I just had to know.”

Then she ripped herself from his arms and left the alley. For good this time.

———————————–

PART TWO

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