#DC Comics Reboot

[kingoftheu]

[aliteralchicken]

since getting into comics are a hot topic at the moment what was the first comics you guys read and how confused were you at the time

[nerdistraido]

Lançamento Marvel e DC Comics 2023

[stackthedeck]

this is fucking revisionist history no the fuck you didn't clark

[laufire]

so many people miss the point of what jason was doing when he made himself the red hood. the red hood is A Bad Guy, not A Hero (NOT a Bat). this means he's not following vigilante justice rules, which allows him to do what he wants to do.

ironically this is best illustrated, imo, in a story where the opposite happens; where being A Bad Guy bars him from taking action. in "outsiders: pay as you go" (vol. 3. #44-46 + annual #1), jefferson pierce is in jail, having turned himself in after being tricked into thinking he'd committed murder. jason finds out about it by spying on deathstroke, and he goes with this information to dick and his team (which includes anissa pierce), and later also warns them about a hit being put on jefferson.

I once saw a post that interpreted these actions as jason seeking help for a jailbreak he couldn't pull off on his own. ridiculous lol, especially as this is written by winick, who loves his hyper-competent jason (he's the one who made him that way, after all). jason doesn't even participate in the jailbreak, because the red hood is A Bad Guy. as he himself says, jefferson is a hero, one of The Good Guys, made to second-guess himself and take himself off the board.

the way to restore him to heroism is NOT by having a notorious criminal break him out of prison. what would that accomplish, even if jefferson himself allowed it? (he would not. hell, his instinct is to distrust the information because of who it comes from lol). it would not prove his innocence, and in fact it'd probably make things worse for him.

so instead jason goes to The Heroes (to dick, in particular; anissa's presence could've been a consideration, maybe as a fellow child-of-a-felon, but it was dick, and dick's values, that he was trusting here). he gives them the information and the means necessary to help and save jefferson, but he doesn't publicly intervene himself. because he's A Bad Guy, and they don't go to the rescue.

[uncharted-constellations]

A marvel fam, a partial shazam fam?

[eggmacguffin]

the efforts to scrub Damian's personality to make him an everyman Robin is baffling to me. He is different, he acts and thinks differently, his mix of trauma and pride and selfconsiousness and pretense is so so interesting and is literally the thing that makes him special. he doesn't FIT in any other Robin story but his own. lazy adaptations love to make the Robins interchangeable but that doesn't WORK with Damian (as much as it "works" with anyone else) because he approaches Robin from a completely different perspective than the others.

There's letting him grow up and then there is completely overwriting him to be someone he's not because you can't be bothered to tell a story with a character who might resist the direction you want things to go

[necrotic-nephilim]

I’m gonna be honest I didn’t realize the new 52 messed with Kon that much till I read your post and now I can’t get over the potential. I’m a Tim/Kon girly at heart so I would devour anything you write exploring the 52 vs typical Kon. Also Time being in a clone sandwich is 👌.

the new-52 messed Kon up SO bad it's ridiculous. like, to the point i would personally argue he's a completely unrelated character to pre-Flashpoint/Rebirth Kon. his personality, his suit, his origin, all different. the only real similarities are the name and powerset. and even New-52!Kon's powers are slightly different from pre-Flashpoint!Kon. New-52!Kon is a clone of a future version of Jon Lane Kent, cloned by N.O.W.H.E.R.E. to provide genetic material to Jon Lane Kent, whose body was not handling being half human/half Kryptonian well, it was a whole thing. New-52!Kon is also where we get the infamous "Kon-El means 'abomination of the house of El' and Kara basically named him a slur in Kryptonian culture" tidbit, because that is the only time that's canon. (originally Kon-El was a name gifted by Clark to accept Kon as his family way back in the 90s) he also never went by Conner Kent. New-52!Kon just straight up didn't have any real human identity or connections, outside of being very close to Tim and some Titans.

the very TLDR of Kon's history is: during post-Crisis/pre-Flashpoint, a clone called Superboy is created by CADMUS. at first, he's considered to be a clone of a dude named Paul Westfield and is not Kryptonian whatsoever, he was simply made to look like Superman and only has Tactile Telekinesis as a power. then, it was made canon that actually he was a clone of Lex Luthor and Clark Kent, but Lex hid this fact and slowly, Kon developed more Kryptonian powers. he's given the name Kon-El by Clark, and is taken in by the Kents, getting the name Conner Kent. then Flashpoint happens, we get the New-52, and we're given the above version of Kon-El, who is a clone of Jon Lane Kent, created by N.O.W.H.E.R.E. who has mostly very strong telekinesis powers and some Kryptonian powers. he's with the Titans for a bit, then at the end of the New-52, he kills some aliens and feels bad about it so he decides to fuck off and is never seen again, it's presumed he's dead but never confirmed. then Rebirth happens and DC makes Jon Kent the current Superboy, we get Supersons and all that, and it's assumed that no version of Kon-El exists. just at all. he's not around whatsoever, Jon is our only Superboy. *but* in 2019, we get a new Young Justice run and the pre-Flashpoint Kon-El is back, and we're given the explanation of: Kon got accidentally teleported to this alternate realm called Gemworld and then Flashpoint happened, and since that was a Crisis Event that changed the timeline, the poor lad got *erased* from the timeline, causing most people to *not fucking remember him* and for him to remember a timeline that no longer exists. some of the Young Justice team vaguely remember him, Ma and Pa Kent remember him, but notably, Clark *does not remember him*. it's not an issue of "Clark ignored Kon in favor of Jon" it's an issue of "Kon was erased from the timeline and didn't exist for years bc he was stuck in Gemworld and Clark just doesn't remember Kon or Kon's timeline" which to me, is far more tragic but i digress. since then, Kon has been back and is present in most significant Superfamily runs, with his own recent mini-series, Superboy: Man of Tomorrow. (which was very good btw)

so basically: the New-52 fucked Kon up so bad they wrote him out of comics for years and then brought back the pre-Flashpoint version, but never *explicitly* killed the New-52 version off. so hypothetically, it's possible that there are currently two characters existing in the DC universe named Kon-El who have been Superboy. and like i said above, one of New-52!Kon's only real significant relationships was with Tim, it was the only thing the New-52 managed to get right about Superboy, his closeness to Tim. they have a *lot* of moments that read incredibly queer. and ofc, it's just outright confirmed in Dark Crisis: Young Justice that Tim had a crush on pre-Flashpoint!Kon at some point. so while comics are intent on pretending New-52!Kon doesn't exist, i am intent on putting Tim in a clone sandwich.

because i do think it's fun to play with Tim having genuine feelings and potentially a relationship with both of them. and the fucked up nature of him not fully *remembering* his relationship with pre-Flashpoint!Kon (which is a canon thing, in YJ(2019) Tim has vague memories of Kon he's struggling to piece together and understand why he cares about this guy he doesn't recognize so much) and how frustrating that is for Tim. he knows he loves Kon, but it's all foggy besides that. and so it's even *more* fucked up if Tim dated New-52!Kon before he got emo and ran off into the unknown. obviously in canon no one has told current Kon about New-52!Kon bc comics are doing the good ol' tried and true of "sweep that shit under the rug" but for fanfic, i think it's fun to ask the question of: would anyone *tell* Kon? especially Tim? who now remembers dating both versions of them? would he admit to Kon that briefly, he had another Kon? how would Tim cope with that and move on? personality wise, they could not be more different. they dress and act and look different. they're not the same person, but there's certainly a questionable factor of Tim's dating history including two Kon-Els.

the idea i've had for a while is Tim slowly starting to date pre-Flashpoint!Kon again. it feels familiar and like home. and Tim has grieved and accepted that wherever New-52!Kon is, he doesn't want to come home, he didn't love TIm enough to stay and try. so Tim takes the Kon he has, and genuinely has a happy relationship. like for once, life is good and things almost make sense for Tim. but then, of course, New-52!Kon comes back. he decides he wants to try again and he finds Tim. only to find well. he's been replaced. and technically, he's been replaced with the *original* that he didn't even know *existed*. and if being a clone is bad enough, that just makes it a hundred times worse. because imagine knowing you're actually the second Kon-El your boyfriend who you never *technically* broke up with fell in love with. that's gotta give you some kind of complex.

so i think it's fun if both Kons try to step back and let the other Kon date Tim. both of them have reasons to feel like the "replacement" or "fake" Kon, and it makes them incredibly awkward with each other. do they count as the same person? bc they definitely don't *feel* like the same person to each other, but with weird timeline stuff, who can really say. them settling on an awkward throuple that's really meant to be Tim just dating them both but somehow they end up dating each other too is so fun for me. they both feel like imposters to the Superboy name but are so deeply in love with Tim Drake, it's the one thing truly connecting them. and then of course, Tim feels bad in that somehow, he's betraying both of them for having feelings for the other. but they make it work, with a lot of awkward angst and miscommunication. i just think it'd be fun. very difficult to write to get all the weird timeline nuances down in a way that's understandable in a fanfic (bc you can't just. infodump like i did on this post) but doable. also difficult to tag, because even though i argue these are two different characters, i'm pretty sure Ao3 groups them under the same character tag. so it'd be difficult to convey it's not *really* as selfcest-y as it would imply. comics, man. DC will never acknowledge New-52!Kon again, and he's admittedly a terrible adaptation of Kon-El, but. i think he was sort of neat in his own right and i'd *love* for DC to just inexplicably bring him back and make the current Kon deal with the consequences of all that. and them make Tim kiss them both. obviously.

[kryptonbabe]

Legion of Super Heroes propaganda in Legionnaires #0 (1994)

[ballinandcantgetup452]

What does "No Kents" in Absolute Superman even MEAN?

I’m worried that Absolute Superman’s gonna be booty cheeks and too edgy. The writer has a mixed track record. Jason Aaron is known for writing the best parts of recent Thor and he created The Mighty Thor (Jane Foster). So I think he can handle the action that comes with writing god-tier characters quite well. I’m just really concerned that Aaron’s not gonna get the spirit.

I’m hoping that this does what Henry Cavill’s Superman was SUPPOSED to be: a cynic who’s still trying his best to smile despite all the pain he’s been through because he STILL believes in doing the right thing simply because it’s good. I hope that Absolute Superman is a story about letting people in, and how Clark doesn’t need the Kent’s to be fundamentally compassionate. I suspect that if you take away the Kents, then you still have a good person, but one that’s slow to trust anybody

I just don’t know what they mean by “no Kent’s”

All we really have is the artist showing us an action scene, and the knowledge that Superman’s cape is all Misty because it’s the “ashes of Krypton” which means that his suit is purely Kryptonian in origin

Did he LIVE on Krypton? Was he in the foster system? Was he raised by a different, shitty family? The phrase “no Kents” is just really vague. “No money” is relatively easy to work around. Granted, Bruce has an inciting incident that creates The Batman, so it's not too much of a stretch to put him in any circumstance. “No Amazons” probably means you just switch pantheons (I'm partial to the idea that she's raised by the pantheon of the New Gods). But “no Kents” has borderline infinite unrelated possibilities that I don’t know what the ACTUAL premise is of the book. Perhaps you could say the same about Diana, but I'm worried for Clark because edgy Supermans are just now fading in popularity, and I don't want to see them make a comeback over a POORLY written edgy Superman.

Shot in the dark, I think each Absolute line is going to be a commentary on the misconceptions of the traditional line. Absolute Batman was about debunking the “Batman beats up poor and mentally ill people” bullshit. If that’s actually a pattern and not malarky, I don’t know what Absolute Superman would address. Thoughts?

[objectivelyimpermanent]

1986 or 1984

I was reading some meta about DC and Batman, and I had the thought of how horrific it would be to live in the DC universe.

That's not about the mass-murder, villains, curses, gods, etc. It's more about the reboots and sliding timescales. Tim Drake has been 17 for a decade, Dick Grayson was Robin for over 40 years but he's still in his twenties, Batman used to kill people but now has never killed people, Damian used to have an older brother who was adopted out except he has never had an older brother, most characters have died but some of those that died also have never died.

I've only ever read a few fics that deal with what it would be like to live in a universe that reboots constantly and where you don't age unless some eldritch(?) gods(?) say that you can, and even then they may change their minds, and I can't remember their names. I think it should be explored more, but they all managed to convey the sense of existential horror.

Reboots are just a universe-wide retcon, and the sliding timeline is a continuous retcon that changes only arbitrarily. For a Watsonian vs Doylist explanation of reboots: to the Doyle, a reboot means that anything pre-reboot used to be true, but now it is no longer; to the Watson, a reboot means that anything pre-reboot was never true in the first place. This is the only way that "Batman has never killed someone" can be true, given some of the pre-Crisis comics.

To the Watsons in the DC universe, this is basically 1984: "We have always been at war with Eastasia." The Flashes must give people conniptions.

[songofpurple-summer]

what is this “while gotham may know you as robin…i’m the robin who knows gotham” shit, dc i’m begging please let tim be red robin again this is just getting embarrassing for him 😭

[thesproutandthebean]

stop saying you want a batfamily animated series. ducktales (2017) is literally right there

[sapplejack]

Re-reading some reboot Legion of Superheroes and is that Shampoo from Ranma 1/2 in the background? Wonder how many more anime cameos there are since Jeff Moy is a fan of anime and manga after all.

From Legionnaires #26

[courseyoulovemeyoudontknowme]

Batman Begins (2005, Christopher Nolan)

05/11/2024

[jalapainio]

As I've been reading Comics, I've slowly been assembling a Batman readthrough Timeline, which encompasses the full scale of Batman. So far, I have only gathered the first ten years. I put the canonized Comics in Trade Paperbacks, as they sometimes throw in an extra issue or two of another comic run and it is easier for me to keep track of them that way.

Here it is! The ultimate Batman Timeline (years 1-10)

Batman Year 1: 21 year old Bruce (first of many soft head cannons) becomes Batman. Many early villains of Batman pop up, including Joker, Catwoman, Mad Hatter, Riddler, and Calendar Man. Canonized Comics include Batman: Year One, Batman: The Brave and the Bold, and Batman: Zero Year.

Batman Year 2: This year is dedicated entirely to the Long Halloween, which also introduced Poison Ivy, Solomon Grundy, and most famously, Two-Face. Canonized Comics include Batman: The Long Halloween.

Batman Year 3: Much like Year 2, Year 3 is dedicated to its sequel, Dark Victory. In it, a new serial killer known as the Hangman has started killing cops in Gotham. This year sees the end of the classic Mafia in Gotham, and ten year old Dick Grayson being taken in by Bruce Wayne. While he does put on the Robin colors and even goes out with Batman, he is not Robin just yet. Canonized Comics include Batman: Dark Victory.

Batman Year 4: This year gives the main focus towards training Dick. We can also assume that the Justice League, or at least a version of it, has been formed during this year. In addition, Killer Croc is introduced. Canonized Comics include N/A (seriously, I need something here. Anyone rec a solo Batman story that might fit in here?)

Batman Year 5: While most of the year is like the one above, a calm year for Batman, at the end of year, 12 year old Dick wears the Robin suit for the technically second time. He is the one who makes his suit, angry at Bruce for forcing him through constant training as a stall to prevent Dick from going out. Canonized Comics include Robin and Batman.

Batman Year 6: Dick goes through his next big villain during the spring of this year, facing off against Two-Face. After a brief moment when he is fired as Robin, he returns to the Cape, this time with a new perspective on his role. Canonized Comics include Robin Year One.

Batman Year 7: Dick, while working with Batman, notices Bruce's strange behavior. Collaborating with his other teen heroes he met in Year 5, he figures out that the entire Justice League is acting weird! Together, the five (Robin, Speedy, Kid Flash, Aqualad, and Wondergirl) team up and work together to take down the Justice League! They called themselves the Teen Titans. Canonized Comics include Teen Titans: Year One

Batman Year 8: Barbara Gordon, 17 years old and an accelerated graduate of College (she has to be not on a normal track, or else her entire relationship with Dick would just be so weird) puts on a bat themed costume to spite her father, and ends up going against Killer Moth. Batgirl, as she's newly christrained, is supported by Robin (but not Batman) to become a superhero. Firefly takes up the costume with Killer Moth, and Batgirl takes them down. Canonized Comics include Batgirl: Year One

Batman Year 9: Batman and Superman work together to defeat the Devil Nazha, which ends up with Dick being stuck in time. Bruce rescues him, and the rest of World's Finest goes on. Canonized Comics include Batman/Superman World's Finest: Devil Nazha, Batman/Superman World's Finest: Strange Visitor, and Batman/Superman World's Finest: Elementary.

Batman Year 10: 17 year old Dick and the rest of the Teen Titans fight off a rabid cult of fans! Canonized Comics include World's Finest Teen Titans.