#4x02 confirmed dead

[ljones41]

Locke & Sawyer in "Confirmed Dead"

Recently, I did a rewatch of the "LOST" Season Four episode, (4.02) "Confirmed Dead". And I had enjoyed it as much as I did during previous viewings. However . . . there was something about Oceanic 815 survivors John Locke and James "Sawyer" Ford that had eluded me during those past viewings.

How can I put this? There seemed to be a great deal of hypocrisy emanating from both Locke and Sawyer in this episode. For example, while questioning Locke's sanity in "Confirmed Dead", Sawyer had pointed out the older man’s murder of Naomi Dorrit, an inhabitant from the newly arrived freighter Kahana, in the Season Three finale, (3.22-3.23) "Through the Looking Glass, Part II". Locke had killed Ms. Dorrit in an effort to prevent her from contacting her associated aboard the Kahana. He had considered them a danger to the island and its inhabitants.

Also, Sawyer had recently committed two murders during late Season Three - Anthony Cooper in (3.19) "The Brig" and Other member Tom Friendly in "Through the Looking Glass". It turned out that Cooper was Locke's father, whom the Others had captured to test Locke for the position of their leader. Unable to kill his father, Locke had discovered from one of the Others, Richard Alpert, that Cooper was also the man who had swindled Sawyer's parents from their money some twenty-eight years earlier. This act had led to Sawyer's father murdering his wife for adultery and committing suicide. Sawyer, who had been eight years-old at the time, spent nearly three decades needlessly vowing revenge. Thanks to the manipulations of both Richard and Locke, Sawyer committed the murder. As for Tom Friendly's murder, Sawyer had killed the man out of pure spite. In the Season Two episode, (2.11) "The Hunting Party", he claimed that Friendly had shot him, when he was aboard Michael Dawson's raft in the Season One finale, (1.23-1.25) "Exodus". In "Through the Looking Glass", he claimed that his murder of Friendly was in retaliation for the kidnapping of 10 year-old Walt Lloyd, Michael's son.

Despite Locke's efforts, Oceanic survivors' leader, Dr. Jack Shephard, managed to contact the Kahana occupants. This led the survivors to split into two groups - those who saw the Kahana as a means to their rescue and those who followed Locke, certain that Ms. Dorrit's associates meant to harm them. Locke led the doubters on a trek to the Others' abandoned compound, on the other side of the island. Sawyer was among them. I know what you are thinking. What does this recap of the late Season Three/early Season Four events have to do with hypocrisy? And why target John Locke and James Ford?

Among those who had decided to follow Locke to the Others' compound out of safety was their leader, Ben Linus. Both Locke and Sawyer already had a personal grudge against the man. Ben had tried to murder Locke in (3.20) "The Man Behind the Curtain" in an effort to prevent the latter from replacing him as the Others' leader. Ben had kept Sawyer, Jack and Kate Austen hostage as a means to receive a much needed operation in early Season Three. When Sawyer had interfered in a slightly hostile conversation between Ben and one of his former followers, the adolescent Karl, the former Others leader made insinuations that Kate (whom Sawyer was attracted to) preferred Jack over the con man. As it later turned out, he was right. In a fit of anger, Sawyer gave Ben a beat down and suggested to Locke they should "execute" - namely kill - Ben, because the latter was being a nuisance. Locke refused, claiming they needed Ben's assistance in dealing with the island's newcomers. But this was not the last of it.

Four of the Kahana's passengers finally arrived on the island via a helicopter and parachutes. One of them proved to be Dr. Charlotte Lewis, a cultural anthropologist. Ben feared that Charlotte might contact the freighter and confirm his exact location to her associates aboard the Kahana. He also feared what the freighter's arrival would mean for the island's other inhabitants. Driven by these fears, Ben tried to kill her by shooting her in the chest with a gun he had stolen from an unsuspecting Karl. At that moment, Locke decided to follow Sawyer's advice. He decided to punish Ben by killing the latter. Sawyer offered to do the job, but Locke decided he must be the one to "clean his own mess". Only Ben’s revelations of his knowledge of Charlotte’s background, the reason the freighter had arrived at the island and his spy aboard the Kahana had saved his life.

Watching all of this unfurl had made me shake my head with amazement every time I had viewed "Confirmed Dead". But it took this last rewatch for me to realize both Locke and Sawyer's hypocrisies. Locke had been willing to execute Ben for attempting to do to Charlotte what he had recently done to Naomi in "Through the Looking Glass" - namely kill someone from the Kahana for his self-preservation and the safety of the island's inhabitants. As for Sawyer . . . he had punched Ben for making insidious comments about Jack and Kate. And he also wanted Ben dead for the attempt on Charlotte’s life. This all reminded me of Sawyer's second reason for murdering Tom Friendly. The con man had claimed he did it for 10 year-old Walt Lloyd’s kidnapping in "Exodus". Yet, Sawyer had never went after Ben for the same reason. And by late Season Three and early Season Four, he knew that Ben was the Others' leader and the one who had ordered Walt's kidnapping. Yet, Sawyer had never went after Ben for that reason.

For years, I never understood why so many "LOST" fans had turned a blind eye to the crimes of most of the Oceanic survivors. Or made excuses for their crimes. I now realize one should consider personal bias toward certain characters as a major reason. But after my rewatch of "Confirmed Dead", I am surprised hardly anyone had noticed the Oceanic castaways' penchant for hypocrisy, including that from John Locke and James Ford in this episode.

[whenmemorydies]

Chef this meta is so rich (pun intended lol) and delicious! Thank you for writing it! As we've discussed, it goes back to @currymanganese original theory that Richie is Chris Storer's author avatar in show - a theory that seemed to be confirmed in 3x09 when we got Tiff and Richie looking us dead in the eye, telling us that they know The Bear's demographic lol.

Some additional Richie moments I've noticed too:

Episode 2

The music that plays as Richie bar hops and makes his way home - which as you point out, also plays in 1x02 Hands - is a cover of the song "Finale" from the film score of Italian flilm, Rocco and His Brothers.

As I noted in the "Media References in The Bear" spreadsheet, Rocco and His Brothers (Rocco E I Suoi Fratelli) was an Italian film about an impoverished Sicilian family (a single mother and her five sons) that moved to the industrial north of the country for a better life. The film includes themes of parentified siblings, gendered violence, sexual assault, class division and economic migration. Rocco and His Brothers was also directed by groundbreaking Italian film director Luchino Visconti who was one of a handful of directors that led the Italian neorealism movement. About that movement, Wikipedia says:

Italian neorealism [...] was a national film movement characterized by stories set amongst the poor and the working class. They are filmed on location, frequently with non-professional actors. They primarily address the difficult economic and moral conditions of post-World War IIItaly, representing changes in the Italian psyche and conditions of everyday life, including poverty, oppression, injustice and desperation. Italian Neorealist filmmakers used their films to tell stories that explored the contemporary daily life and struggles of Italians in the post-war period. [1] Italian neorealist films have become explanatory discourse for future generations to understand the history of Italy during a specific period through the storytelling of social life in the context, reflecting the documentary and communicative nature of the film.[2]

I think its really telling that a song from the soundtrack of that film from a director of that movement is being used in The Bear (a show whose roots are embedded in the immigrant working class of Chicago, and specifically in an Italian-American family) for scenes featuring the two remaining Berzatto brothers (bc Richie is a Berzatto as much as Carmy and Nat are).

Note: some of the shots of the film - particularly the facial close ups - remind me of similar facial close ups used in the The Bear. I wonder if Visconti is a director whose work has influenced Chris Storer.

Episode 3

I have nothing to add except that the scene of the team prepping that Beef and the moment Richie and Carmy have together while Carmy preps it made my heart swell and you've so beautifully described why.

It also was so touching to see how that spark returning to Carmy's eyes was because of something from his history - from his past: his family's Beef sandwich. We're often shown how Carmy's past haunts him but this was such a gorgeous depiction of him integrating the good of his upbringing - the biological and chosen family and relationships he's gotten because of that "shitty-ass business" (as per Uncle Jimmy) with the delicious sandwiches.

Episode 9

When Carmy returns to The Bear after visiting Donna and he and Richie recreate (and flip) that brooding, angsty table scene from 4x02, I noticed that they'd switched seats which I thought might indicate that after speaking with Donna, Carmy is becoming more like Richie in "learning about who he is to his history" and integrating.

This was also the first scene in show that I'm aware of that Carmy acknowledges that Richie is more his brother than "cousin." When Richie asks him where he's been, Carmy first says:

Carmy: I went to my mom's.

Richie: Yeah. Ha ha. Fucking clock's running out.

Carmy then says:

No, I, uh, I went to Mom's.

Its his correction, without the qualifying possessive "my" that stuck out for me. In the above sentence, Mom/Donna belongs to both Carmy and Richie. The rest of the convo then flows like two siblings catching up. It was really lovely to see after almost two seasons of rage between these two.

Richie as Actor and Director: A Mirror to Carmy’s Journey

Just a little fun episode guide, mostly for me and my Richie collection to see how Richie serves as both actor and director in season 4, and what it means for The Bear- both the restaurant and the show.

Richie Shifts Roles

In Season 4, Richie shifts roles. He's no longer just the surrogate director to himself and Carmy's emotional arc this season, he's the actor, stepping into environments Carmy once faced. But Richie responds with growth, an appreciation for Groundhog Day, a clearer understanding of his role, and confidence in letting go of the past.

Richie Mirrors Carmy — Episode 2

Richie’s actor’s journey begins in Episode 2, where we first see Carmy sitting alone, sulking over his mistakes. Richie asks if it's performative, almost like a director trying to guide an actor into emotional truth.

This is the last time we really see Richie as a surrogate director for a while. But before Richie steps into his own role as an “actor,” he delivers one last, uncanny piece of direction to Carmy:

“Today is tomorrow, cousin.”

He knows Carmy is stuck in groundhog day. Even Carmy, lost in his spiral, seems momentarily shaken out of his thoughts.

Richie is reminding him: you’re not stuck. You don’t have to keep sulking in guilt, shame, or mistakes. You can break the loop.

It’s a line that quietly offers Carmy a way out of his Groundhog Day. And as we learn later in the season, much of the shame Carmy carries stems from not being there for his family at Mikey’s funeral, a silence that haunts him still.

But Richie’s message is simple and grounded: Today is all we have.

Carmy can live stuck in yesterday’s pain and expect to live in that cycle the next day or he can choose to show up for today.

Richie always is keen director. But Richie as the actor, although observant, is stuck in his own story.

The episode continues similarly to Carmy’s 1x02 moment, with the same music playing. Richie, now in Carmy's role, ends the shift in solitude. He watches 3:10 to Yuma and hears the line, “Squeezing the watch won’t stop time” — a mirror of Carmy’s struggle with today and the next day.

Later on his sofa, Richie watches Ridley Scott speak on directing and reflects on the importance of knowing the space. It's meta for Richie knowing and learning later on that the vibe will influence the guest and the bear. And if he can fix the environment, he can keep the restaurant going.

Another meta moment in this episode was Richie rehearsing his prep speech for the cast of The Bear. Sydney provides the advice that his direction or movie is too inteelligent, too lofty. Richie points out its elitist (maybe a referencee to the reviews about the show).

Richie's Evolution Through Environment: The Scallop Episode

In Episode 3 Richie is back as director in this episode. Richie realizes and applies what director Ridley Scott says- that when the atmosphere is right, people perform at their best. The Bear is perfect for a night.

Before service, he sets the tone for the show- as Marcus asks how many of these can we do (my opinion, this is Marcus asking about seasons of the show or restaurant), and Richie gives the right advice of living day by day.

What I love about Scallop is that it's an episode where everyone shines at Service as Richie returns as director. Sydney's scallop is the highlight of the episode, carrying hues and shining for the reviewer. As Jessie says, they’re on pace. The Bea, both the show and the restauran, embodies what it means to take care of others, to make people happy, and by serving The Beef the bear let's the guest and the viewers guests in on their family.

On the night of the service, the environment has a significant impact on Carmy's performance. Richie creates a space where Carmy isn’t overwhelmed by dysfunction, but instead is engaged, caring for the guests and supporting his family, rather than shouting or pushing. He's calm amongst the pressure and pace, taking care of others, creating memories for the family they're serving, making them happy.

It’s something Carmy once deeply wanted, but now believes he no longer has a spark for.

One of the most beautiful moments for me in Scallop- besides Sydney's gorgeous montage- Richie watching Carmy plate the italian beef beautifully and with surprise for a guest. Richie knows Carmy should be thriving here. As Dion’s “Only You Know” plays, Richie watches and gives this little nod as he watches Carmy love what he's doing.

But the lyrics say, “I wanna see something that used to be in your eyes again… you know it’s only a question of when.” I could cry!

Richie sees at that moment, the light in Carmy’s eyes and believes it can exist in The Bear and for Carmy.

But he's still going to step back and let Carmy live his journey.

Episode 5 Replicants: As an actor, Richie is still struggling with attending the wedding, accepting Frank as stepdad, moving on from Tiffany, and coping with the harshness of loneliness.

Richie is still the actor, but the opposite of Carmy. He’s living in the loop, but showing up, he's working, building tentative intimacy with Jessie, and choosing presence.

Richie’s Dual Role in Later Episodes

In Episode 6, Richie shifts back to director, offering a psychological analysis of Carmy by reminding the audience that Carmy has a mother's complex

But at the end of Sophie, Richie sees Carmy in a different emotion

Richie ends the episode with his usual parting, but it holds a different meaning , and Happy Thursday is the possibility of Carmy being happy in the family in the restaurant, and out of The Groundhog Day Loop.

In Episode 7, Richie is an actor who initially feels nervous about his performance as a supportive ex-husband. Despite his sadness, he takes on the role of director once again for Frank and Eva, who are scheduled to perform at the wedding. Richie also guides Carmy to the kitchen, where Carmy accidentally connects with Lee. By the end of the episode, Richie embraces his role as the "sand", the director who brings others together.

In Episode 8,. he directs while writing in his notebook. After he writes his director notes, Carmy moves like an actor hitting his mark, turning to Sydney to connect.

Throughout the rest of the episode, he shifts into actor mode as he flirts with Jessie and tries to redirect what happened by saying, “There’s no ‘I love you’ in the workplace.”

Funny despite being a director, Richie still lacks some self-awareness of the story since he's also acting in it. The surprise that The Bear is a love story reflects this. He seems to be grappling with the ghost of loneliness, which clouds his perspective.

Does he even realize that he is the one who frequently says "I love you" in the workplace?

He'll know soon that love would make the restaurant and show perfect again.

In Episode 9, Richie does not direct until the end because Carmy is absent. When Carmy finally returns, Richie greets him like a director waiting for his lead, asking where he has been and expressing concern about their limited time. Carmy, the actor, communicates to Richie how emotionally "free" or unstuck he feels by talking to his mother.

This is a contrast to the last time Carmy and Richie sat at the table, which was filled with sorrow. But in episode 9- their very last shift, Carmy the actor experiences an emotional breakthrough and becomes more open.

Although Richie kept his distance while directing Carmy, he couldn't help but show a hint of a smile, proud that Carmy is moving forward.

At least with his mother and at least by the next episode with Richie? Sort of.

In Episode 10, Goodbye, the two actors, Sydney and Carmy, become so emotionally full in their scene that Richie has to disrupt the direction the story is taking. But he has little control over the twist these two actors pull.

The last season casts Richie in a new light: his role will be a partnership in the upcoming season. However, he will also, unwillingly, become the director of the chaos between Sydney and Carmy. As he puts it, he’ll be the ambassador of a St. Paddy’s Day and @turbulenthandholding, @moodyeucalyptus, and I know that any St Paddy's Day in Chicago is a shit show.

The last time we heard about St. Paddy's Day being described as a shit show was by Claire.

But he doesn’t realize that being the ambassador of this upcoming shitshow will actually be a good thing. As a holiday is represented by a color that repsents the good and being on time in the bear.

Richie is the sand. The one who connects.

And next season it’s St. Paddy’s Day and the clock has run out.

But Richie will direct a beautiful, loving mess of a story, right on time.

[girlinthefireplace16]

Lost Rewatch - 4x02 Confirmed Dead

“You say you are not here on a rescue mission and the world at large believes us to be dead. But here we are alive and well and you don't seem remotely surprised to see us.”

[thuskindlyshescatters]

Wait, which confirmed dead characters have we been told multiple times IRL are coming back? Sorry I don’t really follow the outside-the-show side of things

OH I think I see where my confusion came from (I’m the anon asking about dead characters said to be coming back)—in your post answering why you don’t think the place they fell into is the afterlife, did you mean to say there are several confirmed dead characters that have been confirmed IRL to *not* be coming back?

Yeah, typo on my part, sorry!

There’s two that immediately come to mind: Pyrrha and Adam. After the outcry when Pyrrha died, Jen Brown (her voice actress) confirmed that she knew about her fate before she accepted the role and would not be returning to play Pyrrha, implying that the character does not appear in any form past her last appearance in 4x02. Jen Brown returned to RWBY to portray Pyrrha’s mother in 6x09, a nail in the coffin for hopes of Pyrrha’s return. A similar phenomenon occurred after Adam died, in which the CRWBY made it super clear to the complainers on Twitter that he was dead and gone, in defiance of people decrying “no body, no death”.

Furthermore, when the CRWBY wants to be cryptic about a character’s status, they’ll be careful not to discuss their death in any meaningful sense. Think Cinder after Volume 5, Neo before Volume 6, and Penny before Volume 7. Two examples of this being applied to characters that actually ARE dead are Roman and Clover, whose deaths were not frequently spoken of so as to not spoil the arcs forthcoming (for Neo and Qrow respectively). Additionally, Gray G Haddock (voice of Roman) has left RT, so the likelihood of him returning as Roman is slim, meaning recasting his distinctive voice is a barrier to his return.

Overall, RWBY does not typically bring back members of the cast with non-contiguous appearances between Volumes, the most prominent exceptions being Penny and Neo. The biggest reveal to the audience that someone is actually alive would be Summer, which at this point is still implied and under wraps, as it has been for the entire show! To put it simply, the probability based on previous evidence that the ENTIRE cast of dead characters will appear in Volume 9 is extremely low, and I feel like we’re just setting ourselves up for Atlas Ball Part 2 by theorizing so heavily around it.

[ohdesmondo]

“Wanna know why we're here?

I'll tell you why we're here!”

// [ 🌸 ; ✨ ; 📜 ]

4x02 “Confirmed Dead”

[sneakyboymerlin]

OBJECTION! (respectfully)

Victims of the Dorocha die on impact (although it was vital that our main protagonists were not entirely aware of this, so as not to draw suspicion to Merlin’s survival).

Below is an example from 4x02. The man whose home Merlin and Lancelot take shelter in for the night is, quite literally, frozen in place at the Dorocha’s touch. Note the rigidity of his body and the open, unseeing eyes. He was dead in seconds.

The knight in the next example below was implied to be dead within seconds of impact (he is canonically confirmed dead, as there have been no survivors by the next morning), and this is the shot that was used to convey that. Again, our main visual indicator is the open, unseeing eyes.

When Merlin is struck by the Dorocha, we are given a shot which is inclusive of the precise details that were used to imply the aforementioned men’s deaths—the eyes, especially. By all appearances, he is dead. Yet, the next episode opens with him in a functional (if painful) condition, a vast improvement on this.

Essentially, he died here, only to be resuscitated and revitalized, but not to full health: only enough that his body could support life, until the Vilia were able to heal him.

The first night after the Dorocha were released, at least 50 of Camelot’s people died. This accounts for every individual who was struck by the Dorocha, as Gaius follows this statement with the fact that no mortal has ever survived their touch.

Now, this line could have been phrased in a number of ways: no one has ever survived their touch, few people have ever survived their touch, etc. But a deliberate choice was made for Gaius to specify that no mortal has ever survived their touch, in the very episode where Merlin survives their touch (a choice was also made to have Merlin looming in the background here).

So, let me ask you: remind you of anything?

I rest my case.

Do you ever think about how Merlin’s immortality was always implied (and teased) from the start but was never confirmed until the time skip?

1x04 The Poisoned Chalice: Merlin’s heart stops. Gaius and Gwen are already mourning when he wakes up from it. There is some plausible deniability here (a common theme for this arc), but Merlin dies with no resuscitation efforts made. The cure takes effect after he dies.

1x07 The Gates of Avalon: Merlin receives a hit from the Sidhe staff, a magical weapon which kills Aulfric and Sophia upon impact. Gaius claims that Merlin owes it to his powers that he survived, yet the (mortal) fae have great power and still die. Most likely, he died as he did from the Mortaeus poison, but resurrected with some recovery time. Merlin also sees Avalon itself, which is only meant to be visible to mortal humans in death. Merlin was not dead or dying, so he must not be mortal.

1x08 The Beginning of the End: Merlin is first referred to by the name of “Emrys,” which directly translates to “Immortal One.”

1x12 To Kill the King: Merlin hits two men with a staff blast, only for the third to be reflected back at him. The fates of the two men are unknown, but everyone quickly deems the situation resolved, so it’s likely they did not survive, whereas Merlin came back from a second hit.

2x01 The Curse of Cornelius Sigan: Gaius plainly states, “Sigan is immortal and you are not. If you face him, he will destroy you.” However, Merlin survives and defeats Sigan. Plausible deniability aside, Merlin’s immortality has been implied before this, so it’s likely an intentional hint.

3x06 The Changeling: Even the immortal fae can be killed with the Sidhe staff; they may have Merlin’s longevity, but they lack his invulnerability (if it can be called that—he does die, frequently).

3x08 The Eye of the Phoenix: Merlin is paralleled to The Fisher King, who has been confined to an unnatural long life and asks Merlin to aid him in his death. Merlin’s immortality likely has a different function than his, despite the parallel: it’s difficult but not impossible to kill The Fisher King, but if Merlin dies, he simply comes back.

3x13 The Coming of Arthur, Part 2: An ironic piece of dialogue between Lancelot and Merlin:

Lancelot: Aren’t you forgetting something? [The Cup of Life] is guarded by an immortal army.

Merlin: Aren’t you forgetting something? I have magic.

Lancelot: It doesn’t make you immortal.

Merlin: No…

This isn’t evidence of anything except that we were being strung along even during quiet, romantically lit mercelot moments.

4x01 The Darkest Hour, Part 1: Those who are struck by the Dorocha die instantly. Gaius informs Arthur, Merlin, and Agravaine, “No mortal has ever survived their touch.” All of the victims we are shown have died on impact, hence the high body counts with each night that passes. Merlin runs headlong into a Dorocha in order to save Arthur and is shown to have all of the same effects as the other casualties, yet survives.

4x02 The Darkest Hour, Part 2: Merlin is soon healed from his encounter with the Dorocha, but he plans to sacrifice himself to the Veil in Arthur’s place. While it’s uncertain to viewers if it is possible for Merlin to be the offering (it seems possible to the Cailleach, who phrases it not as a death, but a life lost: “Will you give yourself to the spirits to save your prince?”), the Cailleach tells Merlin, “Your time among men is not yet over, Emrys, even if you want it to be.” While this does not strictly indicate his immortality, it does foreshadow that his time among men is lengthy. 1,500 years lengthy and counting. Her words can also be interpreted as “Your time among men is not yet over, Immortal One, even if you want it to be,” which is a strong implication of immortality.

5x12 The Diamond of the Day, Part 1: Balinor tells Merlin, “Believe what your heart knows to be true: that you have always been… and always will be.” This has far-reaching implications. Merlin has always existed, even before his human incarnation. He is magic itself—son of the earth, sea, and sky. He is, essentially, a sentient piece of magic in human form. Just as energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transferred and transformed, you cannot kill Merlin in a way that matters. decay is an extant form of life 🍄 There is still some plausible deniability in Balinor’s insistence that “You will always be, just as I will always be.” Balinor is not immortal as Merlin is, which has the potential to mislead Merlin, but he lives on anyways—as a ghost and in Merlin’s memory.

5x13 The Diamond of the Day, Part 2: Kilgharrah leaves with final words of: “The story you have been a part of will live long in the minds of men.” After Arthur’s funeral and Gwen’s ascension as the sole ruler of Camelot, we cut to a disguised Merlin walking along a roadside, approximately 1,500 years after the events of Camlann, pausing where he laid Arthur to rest, the lake now a grassland. The memory does indeed live long in the minds of men, in Merlin’s mind at least.

Now, there are other events besides the mortaeus flower, the Sidhe staff blasts, and the Dorocha where Merlin may have died but come back, with both the audience and himself unaware of it due to plausible deniability.

The Serket sting in 3x01, which Kilgharrah heals him from

The poisoning in 5x08, which features a moment that is eerily similar to Merlin’s temporary death by poison in 1x04

Merlin’s fall from a cliff in 5x09: Arthur’s own fall is far less drastic. By all rights it should’ve killed Merlin, and it’s entirely possible it did

The arrow to the gut in 5x10; once again, Kilgharrah swoops in to save the day in just the nick of time… or does he?

He’s also left unconscious periodically throughout the series, with some cases deemed more severe, so pick and choose

I’m not the only one messed up by that, right?

[princeescaluswords]

How do you think Stiles knew about Derek and Kate's relationship in 3x10? I'm pretty sure Scott didn't find out until much later?

There is very little we can say for sure.  We know that Stiles revealed he knew that Derek had a relationship with Kate in The Overlooked (3x10) and that Peter informed Scott in 117 (4x02).  Kate guessed in Formality (1x11) that Derek hadn’t told anyone about it, but since Derek neither confirmed nor denied her guess directly, all we have is speculation.

But I think that there is a lot of indirect evidence about which we can speculate effectively: Stiles figured it out because he’s curious, intelligent, and he notices connections.  After the events of season one, he had everything he needed to figure out how the Hale Fire occurred.

1. Kate Argent was behind the fire, but she hid that from her brother.  Stiles personally confronted Chris Argent about her sister’s violation of the Code.  Given Chris’s reaction -- his denial in the hospital room in Code Breaker (1x12) and his defending Scott against his sister -- it’s logical that Kate did something with which he would violently disagree.  Chris certainly didn’t start out the series with a reluctance to kill werewolves, and given that his best friend was in danger, Stiles would certainly look into it.

2. Derek left clues that he had a relationship with Kate.  Stiles became friends with Allison; Derek’s fear of her and especially his immense dislike of the relationship between Scott and Allison -- one which Stiles saw nothing wrong with -- seemed extreme.  If Scott told Stiles -- and I don’t see any reason why he wouldn’t -- about Kate’s predatory behavior toward him, that was simply another important clue.

3.  Stiles has a piece of information that the police didn’t have.  He knows the true motivations of Kate: the Hales were werewolves.  This is a mystery that only he could solve, and he demonstrated repeatedly that he loved solving mysteries.  We see him researching werewolves in Wolf Moon (1x01), researching auto accidents involving deer in Tattoo (3x01), and digging through school records in Parasomnia (5x02).   

4. He wouldn’t be deterred by boundaries.  Even though Kate was supposedly dead, Stiles would still want to understand what happened, because it would help protect Scott and his father.  Derek was an antagonist in Season 1 and a villain in Season 2.  Given his reaction to Theo in Season 5, it’s more than likely that he would dig through police records and school records.  If he found out that Kate Argent was a substitute teacher at Beacon Hills High School at the same time that Derek was a student there, which he might have been able to discover through yearbooks or school newspapers or school administration records.  “I may have broken into the administration office.”   It’s not unreasonable to believe that he put two and two together.

He didn’t say anything because he’s not completely without tact, but in the tense moments in the hospital during The Overlooked (3x10), his temper might have gotten the better at him and he lashed out at Derek in fear for his father’s life, making an intuitive leap with the information he had gathered.

Stiles isn’t always right, but a combination of curiosity, intuition, the need to protect Scott and his father, and his willingness to break the rules to get information could easily allow him to make the leap that Derek and Kate had a relationship.

I’m more curious how and when Peter found out, personally, but I have even less evidence to make an informed speculation about that.

[xdaddywalshx]

Connor Walsh and PTSD

I’m going to start this off by saying I am in no way diagnosing Connor. The purpose of this is to point out the PTSD symptoms that he shows throughout the show. I’ve noticed a lot of them more recently and wanted to see if anyone else had noticed these things too. Again, not meant to offend anyone. None of this is canon, or confirmed, so don’t take what I say to be fact.

1. Panicking when reminded of the trauma:

In 3x14 when Connor was explaining what happened the night Wes died, you could tell he was getting somewhat hysterical and he does the same thing talking to Annalise later on in the episode. He seems to constantly be in a state of panic, especially after what happened with Wes, most of the time it feels like you’re just waiting for him to start freaking out again.

2. Being easily upset or angry:

Like I said in the last one, it feels like he’s constantly on the edge. In particular, 5x04 showed just how easily upset/ angry he could get. All it really took was one small white lie and Annalise bringing up what he told her last year, and Connor just snapped. Annalise yelling back at him only seemed to make everything worse.

3. Irritability or aggressive behaviour:

Do I even have to mention 5x07? With Nate Sr getting murdered the other week, Connor was already on edge but usually one bad thing doesn’t make you go around doing stupid things unless there’s something that tells you that’s what you should do. He could’ve walked away from that homophobe, yet something inside him just snapped. According to Oliver, he had to pull Connor off of that asshole because it was bordering on Connor almost killing him. Throughout the rest of the show, he can be aggressive in other situations but this one in particular stuck out the most to me.

4. Self-destructive behaviour or recklessness:

Season 3. Do I have to say anymore? He spent most of season 3 being self-destructive. Connor lost his safe place and acted out because of it. Not to mention, him finding Wes dead on the basement completely broke him to a point where he almost did something stupid. After the season 5 finale, I can’t even begin to imagine how worse this issue is going to get.

5. Feeling like you have to keep busy:

Connor spent the entirety of season 4 distracting himself. He buried himself in work, so he didn’t have to think about what happened. He continued this into season 5. It always feels like he keeps distracting him with work, especially after Wes.

6. Feeling emotionally numb or cut off from your feelings:

“I don’t even care that Wes is dead. I don’t. Honestly, I don’t- I feel nothing.”

7. Using alcohol and drugs to avoid memories:

I noticed that he spent the majority of season 4 drinking. There are quite a few scenes of him in a bar or getting drunk- another form of distraction.

8. Blaming yourself for what happened:

In 3x14, he told everyone how it might have been his fault and later on in 4x02 he told Laurel how much he hated himself for what he did. Even when he talked with Annalise, he said “we did so many bad things” and then followed that up shortly with “Wes in the basement”. His guilt follows him around and pops up in subtle ways.

9. Overwhelming feelings of anger, sadness, guilt or shame:

The overwhelming sadness sticks out the most throughout his devolpment, in the beginning of 3x14 and 4a to be more specific. I’ve noticed how in season 4 he says how happy he is to be working on the class action- like a lot. Not in a grateful way, but almost as if he’s trying to convince himself that he is, which breaks my heart in so many ways.

In conclusion, I’m not saying he has PTSD at all but he definitely shows a lot of symptoms and usually if you are showing at least one avoidance symptom and at least two arousal and reactivity symptoms, and have been dealing with it for over a month then you are most likely suffering from it.

I hope the show discusses his mental health in future because this topic shouldn’t be brushed under the carpet, as real people deal with it and it might help to know that one of their favourite characters is dealing with it too.

Sorry for any mistakes, I don’t have time to proofread it.

[thebitchet]

my guesses for 8x02

One thing that was very obvious to everyone who watched Sunday's premiere was how much the GOT writers them a circular narrative. It's almost as if they went out of their way to reference previous premieres, not just the pilot. There were callbacks to 7x01, 2x01, 5x01, 6x01 and even maybe 3x01 and 4x01 if you stretch it. And while second episodes aren't as big of a deal as first episodes, if tptb are really tied to this structure below is what I'd be expecting for the second episode. This is 100% based on what we saw in 8x01 and the previous episodes referenced. I have no spoilers and will likely be 100% wrong.

- If Dany doesn't already know that Gendry is Robert's bastard, she'll find out now as it would just mirror what's happening with Jon but will also refer back to what happened in 2x02 and 3x02 where Arya's identity was revealed twice. Gendry may even get legitimized as again, it will mirror Jon's current arc and the offer Stannis made Jon in 5x02 (which itself echoes Cat's speech to Talisa in 3x02). The question is who would be doing the legitimizing?

- On that Gendry note, if there's a chance of him being Cersei's son with Robert, this is the episode to announce that as it was 1x02 where we first heard about him.

- If Howland Reed's going to show up, it's now or never. Not just with the North assembling to Winterfell but his kids made their first appearance in 3x02. Also it would help regarding the news about Jon. Maybe he will "legitimize" Jon Snow by confirming what Bran and Sam have said.

- If Cersei is pregnant, this is the episode where she miscarries - she mentions her first son with Robert in 1x02, Joffrey dies in 4x02, and Myrcella's funeral was in 6x02.

- If Theon wants to get back to Winterfell, having him arrive in 8x02 would bookend him parting from Sansa in 6x02 and his attempts to win Balon over to Robb's cause in 2x02.

- Also, if we're ever going to find out what happened to Ellaria or get a reference of Dany's alliance with the Greyjoy/Tyrell/Martell forces it's this episode as it was 7x02 where they first teamed up with Dany. Maybe Theon is salty he had to go it alone to get Yara back.

- I kind of feel like Euron should show up in Winterfell too but that just seems like a lot? Then again it is the last season. And he does kill Balon in 6x02 and go up against Yara in 7x02!

- Speaking of a lot, Bronn should arrive in Winterfell as 5x02 has references to Cersei's hunt for Tyrion and Bronn has prominent roles in 3x02 when he trained Jaime and 5x02 when Jaime asked Bronn to go to Dorne with him in exchange for money. Also, Joff's cool new crossbow had a moment in 3x02 when he threatened Margaery with it. So there's that too.

- There should be some choice Jaime and Brienne scenes as it was 3x02 when they traveled to King's Landing and 4x02 when they were reunited at Joff's wedding.

- Speaking of Jaime, maybe he does pledge to Sansa. Brienne first did it in 5x02. (Though she was rebuffed.)

- I think everyone who has been calling for Ghost might regret it. Lady died in 1x02. And we found out Shaggydog died in 6x03 so it could happen just at the end, like Lady, and we don't get it confirmed until the next episode.

- As I don't want to see Ghost die, maybe Jon's dragonriding (the literal dragons, I'm not being cute) alienates Ghost and he turns from him like Nymeria parting from Arya in 1x02 and again in 7x02. It would be a sad contrast to 6x02 Ghost where he stayed by Jon's side as he returned from the dead.

- Bran might do .... something? There was a lot of warging in 3x02 and 4x02 and Bran's time travel trip began in 6x02. [INSERT MAGIC STUFF HERE]

- 7x01 was Dragonstone with 8x01 being Winterfell. 7x02 was Stormborn so I'm guessing the 8x02 title could refer to Jon Snow - King of Winter/The Bastard (bonus if we get some stuff about Gendry)/ The White Wolf (Ghost is super dead if they go with this title)/The Snow of Winterfell?

- Other stuff - maybe Dany will consent to Jaime joining the cause with the same caveat about lighting him up if he betrays her that she gave Varys in 7x02. But 5x02 is also the episode where Dany has Mossado executed (but after a trial like she promises Barristan so she's not like her dad) which doesn't go great for her so.... Or maybe Varys betrays her this episode! Tyrion freed the dragons in 6x02, maybe they get chained again or someone talks about chaining them up? Jon Snow was also made Lord Commander of the Night's Watch in 5x02 after leaving for the Wall in 1x02. And Janos Slynt was exiled to the wall in 3x02. So maybe someone offers to take the black? Theon? Jaime? Ghost???

[thementalistmuseum]

The Mentalist Creative Fest

Don forget to participate. Here so prompts to inspire you, the full list is here

#038 - In 4x01, Jane loses the poker game in jail and isn't able to come up with bail money. Worse, his cell mates now know he lied about the vintage car collection. His only option is now murder for hire, unless he can convince Lisbon to bring him a blueberry muffin (or any other means of escape)...

#039 - 4x01: "Well first, eggs," said Jane in the car before they go see Sally Carter. Lisbon's thoughts about Jane's behaviour and situation.

#040 - Debbie Lubin manages to escape on her own while Sally Carter hosts the memorial party for Timothy Carter. Lisbon has to smuggle Jane out of there before the cops search the house.

#041 - Jane's thought process between then moment he thinks RJ is dead until the moment Rosalind confirms Timothy Carter was not RJ (covering 4x01 to 4x02).

#042 - Van Pelt has had a crush on Lisbon for a long time, and when Lisbon pulls her aside to reprimand her for using excessive force against a suspect again, Van Pelt decides to give into her feelings and kisses the boss. Sex ensues. ;)

#043 - Set in early season 4. Grace is strong, stronger than most believe of her, and if Jane keeps giving her those pitying looks she'll dump his tea all over him.

#044 - Post 4x10. After getting back his memories, Jane's mind is still fragile and every time he's in danger, he briefly reverts back to his conman persona. The only way to stop it is for the team (one member of your choice or the whole team together) to provide him with safety and an anchor to reality.

#045 - Jane doesn't get his memory back after 4x10. Lisbon's having conflicting feelings about that. Jane makes a wrong comment and they get into a heated argument and other things.

#046 - Amnesiac Jane tries every trick in the book to seduce Lisbon.

#047 - The almost-drowning causes some complications (like pneumonia), but Jane keeps it secret from the others until he collapses at the office or on the field. Lisbon orders Cho to look after Jane for a few days to make sure he recovers properly.

#048 - To encourage good relationships between teams, Wainwright organises a "Secret Santa" event. Haffner picks Lisbon's name and asks her team for help. But Jane's eagerness to help find the perfect gift is suspicious, and Haffner cannot decide if the man is really trying to help or deliberately sabotaging him.

#049 - Summer makes Cho deal with his back pain.

#050 - Cho isn't the only stuck-up person in the SCU. Summer helps Jane work through a few issues.

#051 - Cho's back is bothering him again and Jane offers to give him a massage.

#052 - Set in 4x12. Janpen wants to escape police custody. She isn't quite sure how to convince Van Pelt to let her go yet, but that's alright. She has experience on her side, and Van Pelt isn't immune to her charms.

#053 - I'd love to see anything with Jane and Jack - friendship or slash, whichever you prefer. The two of them catching up after the case, Jane telling Jack why he's working for the cops now, the story of the fifty bucks, some shared shenanigans from their carny days...

#054 - Set post 4x22. After finding out about his wife's infidelity, Greg seeks (platonic) comfort in Lisbon's company. But that does not sit well with Jane, who finds his emotions suddenly stirred by Lisbon spending time with her ex-fiance.

#055 - On the 10th anniversary of the death of his family, Jane gets drunk and visits Lisbon's house late at night. Things happen and they end up having sex. Then he leaves for Vegas the next morning without a word. One month later Lisbon finds out she is pregnant with Jane's child. Will Jane ever come back and will he ever love another child given the killer of his first child is still alive.

#056 - What happened in Vegas... is supposed to stay in Vegas.

#057 - Red John watches as Jane and Lorelei have sex. Alternatively, Jane knows that Lorelei is working for Red John and is imagining that Red John is watching them.

#058 - Darcy takes longer than anticipated to convince. Or the plans just change. Either way, Jane is kidnapped by Lorelei and delivered to Red John to continue their mind games in person. Whatever condition he is left in, he MUST be left in his own house, beneath the smiley face drawn in his family's blood. Because Red John can't allow Jane to think it would be so EASY to manipulate him. This is Red John's game. He decides how it is played. He can have Jane any time in any way he wants.

#059 - Post-Vegas. Jane starts getting withdrawal symptoms from having spend the last six months under the influence of drugs/alcohol. Cho, who's still angry at Jane for lying to the team, reluctantly ends up having to care for him.

If you have questions, please contact Leaf (Leafenclaw) on Twitter or Fanfiction.net

[itselyserebecca]

Lost 4x02 "Confirmed Dead" ★★★★★★★☆☆☆

[twdmusicboxmystery]

Gracie/Beth Entanglement

Okay, so over the summer I did a post about how many child and baby references there are around Beth and Daryl. Check out all those references and my analysis of them HERE.

There are a few more I didn't catch when I first did that post, and now we have a baby (Gracie) in the show. So I was going to just add on to that post, but re-reading it, I kind of want to take this in a different direction.  

First, I'll do a quick list of all the references we've had:

Season 2:

In 18 Miles Out, Beth criticizes Lori for bringing a baby into such a horrific world. While it was a negative frame of mind, it also shows what she's thinking/worrying about. What's gonna happen to that baby?

Sophia, because Daryl searched for her and told Andrea the story about how no one looked for him when he got lost as a child. Daryl has a soft spot about these things.

Season 3:  

In 3x01, around the fire before Beth sings, she tells Lori that they've found a safe place for the baby. She shows a lot of concern for both mother and child.  

Daryl gets food for and then feeds Baby Judith, refusing to lose her. Beth brings him the bottle, standing by with worry and then takes over daily care of Judith.

Later, Sasha even mistakes Beth for being Judith's mother. Beth has to tell her that Judith isn't biologically hers.

Beth tells Carol that she's always wanted a child and talks about Daryl saving Judith.

Season 4:

Daryl saves kids when Patrick attacks the cell block in 4x02.

Beth asks Michonne if any kids were killed. She says they have words like widows and orphans, but why don't they have a word for a parent who loses a child? (Anyone seeing a POSSIBLE parallel to S8 in that?)

When the prison goes down, Beth leaves the bus to look for Judith, but doesn't find her. When she reaches Daryl before they leave the prison together, she says she was looking for the kids, to get them on the bus.  

In Inmates, during her diary voice over, she specifically mentions Lori's baby and needed a safe place for it to be born.

Later, they follow Lizzie and Mica's tracks, which because they are small, they assume to kids. Beth names Luke and Molly, who were the other two children at the prison, whose fates we haven't seen. Later, when they find the small, disembodied shoe by the railroad tracks, Beth starts to cry, assuming incorrectly that the tracks they'd been following belong to the dead people the walkers are eating.  

When they argue in Still, she specifically brings up Sophia, calling her, "That little girl," which shows she understands what that meant to Daryl and the soft spot he has for lost children.

Season 5:

In 5x02, we saw colored pictures of Baby Moses in his basket and the Burning Bush. I'm going to come back to this because it's what brings the whole theory together. Let me go through these other instances first.

We don't get too many after that before Beth is shot in Coda. But they continue after that.

In 5b, we still see Daryl showing concern for Judith, but we don't see him interacting with her or other children in the same way he did before leaving the prison. Most of us believe he purposely distances himself from children now because they remind him too much of Beth, which makes him sad.  

Then we have more in S6. There are the baby carrots Rick finds on one of the wolves while he's in the RV.  

And then Denise's stuff is pretty compelling. We all know what a major proxy she was to Beth. Not long before her death, while in the apothecary, she sees some really disturbing baby stuff that parallels Beth. Apparently someone was taking care of a baby in the back room. That person is now a walker. Hush, hush is written on the wall, and there's a sink full of black water with a baby shoe laying on one side. 

Though they didn't ever confirm it, I honestly think they meant to show that whoever this person was drowned the baby in the sink. That would have been too disturbing to show in detail on this show, but the point is it was very dark symbolism about a dead child. The shoe, though, was a perfect mirror to the one Beth saw on the tracks, which is just more ways in which Denise parallels Beth.  

I suppose you could argue that the shoe Beth saw didn't belong to the children she was tracking (lizzie and mica). She thought they were dead, but they actually weren't, so maybe the same was true of Denise. But I don't think Denise's situation is the one that really matters here. I'll come back to this idea.

Now, I could add Carol and Tyreese parallels to this. I won't because it would take too long and I want to keep this specifically about Beth and Dary. But I could add a lot more references by showing how those two characters are paralleled with Beth and have lots of baby references around them as well.  

So now fast-forward to S8. (I don't remember any specfic baby references in S7 other than Judith stuff in general. Anyone else) And we have Gracie. (Ignore the arrows in this pic; it was from one of last week’s posts.)

Gracie is interesting because, along with all the other things (like a billion) pointing toward season 8, she may be the embodiment of this baby symbolism. Most of what I'm going to say here is just conjecture. Things I think COULD be the case, but they would just line up really well with all the other stuff we've seen and theorized.

I've already talked about that maybe Beth was the one staying in the happy room, and/or the one who got out of the cuffs Daryl saw. If so, there's a good chance she's been taking care of Gracie up to this point.  

As someone noticed yesterday (X), there are definite parallels between the episodes in this season and S5. In 5x02, we saw the Baby Moses pictures in FG's church. In 8x02, Gracie shows up.  

Then there's what I said above about Beth believing the child's shoe she saw belonged to the person she was tracking, and they were dead, except they weren't. 

I've seen comments about how, if there was a woman, such as Gracie's mother, taking care of her, why would she just leave her baby? There could be many reasons, and maybe we'll see them as the story plays out. But based on that past symbolis with Beth and Denise, I’m wondering if at some point, this mysterious SHE comes back for the Baby, but Rick and Daryl already took her. Given that Rick killed the guard outside, she might think the baby was dead. 

We've also seen precedence for that with Judith's death fake out in 4x08. Just saying.  

Then there's all the rabbit symbolism, and the rabbit in Gracie's crib. I guess the point is that it's all coming together in a way that makes tons of sense to those of us who have been paying attention for the past three seasons.  

Baby Moses

So back to the pictures of Baby Moses and the Burning Bush in FG's church. Both of those are from the Moses story in Exodus.I never knew what to make of them, and didn't even connect them to Beth after we realized she'd come to Oceanside and started looking at the water symbols around them. Then, when @wdway and I started talking about Daryl = Fire, Beth = Water, the Moses pictures came up.

So my first thought was that the Moses story was being used as a template for Beth. We've seen them do such things with other bible stories and fairy tales. The two aspects of the stories we see are Baby Moses and the burning bush.  

So here's the story in a nut shell: Moses's people were enslaved to the Egyptians (bad guys) but there was a prophecy that a deliverer had been born, and the Egyptians believed it. So they decided to kill all the baby boys to make sure they took out this deliverer. To save him, Moses' mother put him in a basket and floated him down the Nile river. The Pharoah's sister found him. She couldn't have children, so wanted to raise him, and she did. He grew up knowing who he was and that one day he'd free his people. When he realized his Egyptian family was not cool with that idea, he ran away and ended up with another community called the Midianites after a long journey across the desert. He lived with them for a time and actually did find some happiness and peace there. Then he saw the Burning Bush. That was when God appeared to him, told him his people were still enslaved and he needed to go lead them out of bondage. And he did.

So in relating this to Beth's story, I was thinking that Moses was put upon the water to save his life. We think Beth will reach D.C. via water, so the a similar concept may apply. Perhaps getting on the water saves her from the "bad guys." (*Coughs wolves*) We also think she'll come through Oceanside. So maybe that's the parallel to the the second society Moses lives in. Maybe Beth will find Oceanside, see that it's a decent community, and plan to stay there for a time. But then SOMEONE has to be her burning bush, that tells here where TF is and that they're enslaved to Negan. Just about anyone at Oceanside could do that. Cindi, Rachel, Beatrice, Natanya. It would just be a matter of her letting slip some names they would recognize.  

So that was my first thought about the Moses stuff. Now, seeing Gracie, I'm wondering if it's something else entirely. We saw the pics of Baby Moses in the church in 5x02. Now Gracie shows up in 8x02. As I said HERE yesterday, there are also other parallels between episodes in S5 and S8, so this is important.

Also, who is fire? That would be Daryl. So the pictures of Baby Moses and the burning bush are a perfect representation of Daryl (Fire), Beth (Water) and the baby symbolism (Moses).  

It's also interesting to note that 5x02 is the same episode where Daryl saw the Grady car with the white cross and took off to look for Beth. That, combined with the 101 Days Without an Accident poster convinces me more than ever that 8x02 is the start of the sequence of events (just as 5x02 was) that will eventually lead to Beth. And Gracie is probably key to that.

Now let's say for argument sake that the Baby Moses picture was not about Beth, but just Gracie. Okay, maybe it was just to foreshadow Gracie herself in 8x02. Fair enough. But if Gracie travelled somewhere on the water to save her life, well, she wouldn't have done that all on her own, right? Someone else had to have travelled with her. Given all the water stuff we've seen around Beth, it STILL suggests her involvement WITH Gracie. Or, put another way, perhaps the pics in 5x02 were pointing to a baby showing up about the same time Beth does.

And then there's Morales. I don't think It's a coincidence that Rick ran into a long-lost, resurrected face from the past just after finding Gracie. Morales isn't Beth obviously, but I think we're looking at some symbolism there. A hint and a foreshadow that resurrection accompanies Gracie. Obviously they didn't want to reveal Beth quite yet, so they went with a smaller resurrection. I'll talk about this in particular more after the episode airs. I have some things to say that I gleaned from spoilers, but I'll just wait until after the episode airs tonight.  

Gonna throw one more piece of evidence out there. Full creds to @frangipanilove for noticing this. I'll post an edit in just a few minutes here to show you this visually, but when Rick (sheriff) walks into Gracie's room, in the FAR background (not the mural painted on her wall) you can see a framed picture of a heron. Guys, it's the EXACT same bird (I even think it's the exact same painting) that's on the wall behind Beth in the golf club. It shows up in the shot where she says, "We made it." Coincidence? Oh puh-LEASE. No way that's a coincidence. Beth is mixed up with Gracie somehow. I'm sure of it.  

So yeah, that's pretty much it. Just wanted to show how well this is all coming together and how much hope it's giving me.  

Oh, and if the S5/S8 parallels continue, well, 5x04 is Slabtown, and you all know I've been leaning really heavily toward her appearing in 8x04. Fingers crossed that we're interpreting this stuff right!  

[jeffcameron]

I just watched Lost 4x02 "Confirmed Dead"

[ninewheels]

NineWheels Rewatches Lost 4x02 “Confirmed Dead”

Let’s talk exclusively about Lost this time!!

Another all-skate (sorta), but this time only for the new characters off the freighter. Although Charlotte is a series regular and Frank will be one eventually, this is the one and only time either of them will get a flashback. Charlotte in particular is drastically underdeveloped for a main character.

Jeremy Davies is a really underrated character actor, and for my money, Faraday is an underrated character. He’s a very Later Seasons Of Lost kind of character, but that’s not bad, it’s just particular. He’s got the high-concept backstory and is directly related to the lore stuff.

Okay, maybe we’re not talking exclusively about Lost, because I know Jeremy Davies played Charles Manson in a movie once, and on the one hand he’s totally got the look for it and I’m sure he was excellent, but on the other hand it’s hard for me to imagine him not being a soft boy, because between this, Saving Private Ryan, his guest spot on Hannibal, etc. he’s just always a guy I want to give a hug.

[ettadunham]

Day 9 - One Night in October

It’s the 9th anniversary of the Fringe pilot!!!! But that episode was already on this list, so let’s move onto today’s entry, 4x02 - One Night in October.

There’s a very specific way in which Fringe makes you feel for serial killers.

I was mentioning this with Inner Child already, how the serial killer there wasn’t necessarily the norm on this show - the themes of Fringe center around family, love, human connection, and sometimes even forgiveness. The perpetrators are more likely to have sympathetic motives, even if it’s twisted and wrong and undeniably needs to be FUCKING STOPPED.

This episode however puts a bit of spin on that sympathy, because it’s not the serial killer we’re focusing on, but his alternate universe self who instead of becoming a killer spent his life trying to understand, and in his own word, ‘help people like him’. So it’s through him, through his conviction that he can help this alternate self of his, that we’re humanizing the killer.

And I know what kids these days would say on this site: ‘cool story, still murder’. And honestly, that’s a good mindset to counter being asked to sympathize with certain “”type”” of (= white male) murderers while often ignoring their victims’ narratives... But it’s not really the takeaway from this story, I think.

Because, again, at the end of the day, we’re asked to sympathize with the guy who despite coming from an abusive home, despite possibly having some mental health issues giving him those “urges” that were made worse by his father trying to “beat it out” of him... manages to turn his life around in the end. Because he ran away from that environment, and found someone who loved him after all. Not even a romantic interest, but a mother figure, who taught him how to control and counter these negative impulses and thoughts.

We’re also shown him failing to convince his serial killer counterpart to stop doing what he was doing. Because love can’t actually save everyone - or at least not without a cost of our own, one that we don’t owe to anyone.

So, in the end, what I took away from this story is that children need LOVE, and that having bad thoughts doesn’t make you a bad person. And I think that’s a pretty fucking good message.

Despite having an intriguing and memorable week of the case, this episode doesn’t lack stories for our own characters either - quite the opposite, really. The whole case is a joint operation between the two universes’ Fringe divisions, and remember, it hasn’t been that long that the bridge has been up, and our teams stopped being at war with each other. What’s interesting to me though, is that it’s Altlivia who brings up the idea in the first place.

You see, I always pegged Altlivia as more of the soldier type compared to Olivia. Sure, she seems more laid back and all that, but that also means that she’s more of a follower instead of a leader, and that she’s comfortable in that position. She does question authority and her orders, but mostly when there’s a good reason for it, and doesn’t just go around doing her own thing all the time like our Olivia. And that’s why I found it unusual to see her take the initiative here, pushing through an idea that their Broyles was opposed to as well.

And God bless her for doing so, because it gave us an entire episode of O2 goodness.

There are also some heavy moments after Olivia mentions his own abusive stepfather when they’re talking with John, and Altlivia overhears it. And Olivia not only confirms to her what we’ve already known, but says that SHE KILLED THE BASTARD DEAD IN THIS TIMELINE. And she does it in her usual dinner chat tone, the way only Olivia Dunham can talk about murder, bless.

And that made me think about which version of Olivia was better off in that regard. The one who didn’t kill her own stepfather as a child, the one that merely shot at him, and got terrorized by him with him sending letters on her birthday EACH FUCKING YEAR... Or the one who did kill him. Which must have been traumatizing as a child, but now he’s gone, and she was raised by Nina in return. Given the episode’s theme, it also feels like the show is trying to tell us that the difference that made Prime Universe Olivia hesitate perhaps was her encounter with Peter, who repeated his mother’s words to her “You gotta imagine how you want things to be, and then you can try to change them.” And isn’t that a message of hope, something to hold onto? But what does that hope truly worth when it comes with a price of living in fear for so many years?

Frankly, it feels like neither of those options are necessarily better than the other, that Olivia probably didn’t feel a peace of mind as a result either way. And perhaps that’s why the differences between amber and blue universe Olivia are so incredibly subtle.

Meanwhile Walter is struggling with his own issues, hearing Peter everywhere. Except of course, he doesn’t know it’s Peter. John Noble, as usual, nails these scenes, but that goes without saying.

This is definitely an episode that stayed with me, and as can be seen from all these rants, made me feel and think about a lot of shit. And that’s peak television for me.

Bullet points!!!!

Confession time: I definitely cross-shipped the Olivias and Lincolns at the beginning of S4. Not necessarily based on these small interactions, but because the idea seemed rather appealing. Of course, this show somehow found a way to kind of give me what I wanted in a way that I most certainly DID NOT want it to happen. Dammit show.

Scarlie is mentioned! Apparently he thought that Altlivia’s idea was crazy, but he was also “too busy sipping Mai Tais with Mrs. Bug Lady”. Which is a fancy way of saying that Kirk Acevedo had another show, so he didn’t have the time anymore to come over to Fringe for these Red!Verse episodes, but I appreciated that they tried to explain his absence nonetheless.

[ohdesmondo]

“Wanna know why we're here?

I'll tell you why we're here!”

// [ 🌴 ; ✨ ; ✈️ ]

4x02 “Confirmed Dead”