#4x02 confirmed dead

[ljones41]

Locke & Sawyer in "Confirmed Dead"

I recently did a rewatch of the "LOST" Season Four episode, (4.02) "Confirmed Dead". And I enjoyed it as much as I did during previous viewings. However . . . there was something about Oceanic 815 survivors John Locke and James "Sawyer" Ford that had eluded me during those past viewings.

How can I put this? There seemed to be a great deal of hypocrisy emanating from the two men. While questioning Locke's sanity in "Confirmed Dead", Sawyer had pointed out the older man's murder of Naomi Dorrit, an inhabitant from the newly arrived freighter, in the Season Three finale, (3.23) "Through the Looking Glass, Part II". And yet . . . Sawyer had recently committed two murders during late Season Three - Anthony Cooper in (3.19) "The Brig" and Other member Tom Friendly in the Season Three finale.

Later, Sawyer gave former Others leader Ben Linus a beat down after the latter had insinuated Kate Austen's preference for the Oceanic leader Jack Shephard over the con man. Then he had suggested to Locke that they "execute" - namely kill - Ben, because the latter was being a nuisance. But this wasn't the last of it.

After encountering Charlotte Lewis, another inhabitant from the freighter, Ben tried to kill her by shooting her in the chest. At that moment, Locke decided to punish Ben by killing the latter. Sawyer offered to do the job, but Locke decided he must be the one to "clean his own mess". Only Ben's revelation of his knowledge of Charlotte's background, the reason the freighter had arrived at the island and his spy aboard the freighter had saved his life.

Watching all of this unfurl made me shake my head with amazement. Locke was willing to execute Ben for attempting to do to Charlotte what he had recently done to Naomi in the Season 3 finale - namely kill someone from the freighter. As for Sawyer . . . he had punched Ben for making insidious comments about Jack and Kate. Then he wanted Ben dead for the attempt on Charlotte's life. This reminded me of his reason for murdering Tom Friendly. Sawyer had claimed he did it for 10 year-old Walt Lloyd's kidnapping in the Season One finale, (1.25) "Exodus, Part II". Yet, not once did he go after Ben for the same reason.

For years, I never understood why so many "LOST" fans had turned a blind eye to the crimes of most of the Oceanic survivors. Or made excuses for their crimes. I guess one should consider personal bias as a reason. But after my rewatch of "Confirmed Dead", I'm surprised that hardly anyone had noticed the Oceanic castaways' hypocrisy, including that from John Locke and James Ford in this episode.

I

[sneakyboymerlin]

OBJECTION! (respectfully)

Victims of the Dorocha die on impact (although it was vital that our main protagonists were not entirely aware of this, so as not to draw suspicion to Merlin’s survival).

Below is an example from 4x02. The man whose home Merlin and Lancelot take shelter in for the night is, quite literally, frozen in place at the Dorocha’s touch. Note the rigidity of his body and the open, unseeing eyes. He was dead in seconds.

The knight in the next example below was implied to be dead within seconds of impact (he is canonically confirmed dead, as there have been no survivors by the next morning), and this is the shot that was used to convey that. Again, our main visual indicator is the open, unseeing eyes.

When Merlin is struck by the Dorocha, we are given a shot which is inclusive of the precise details that were used to imply the aforementioned men’s deaths—the eyes, especially. By all appearances, he is dead. Yet, the next episode opens with him in a functional (if painful) condition, a vast improvement on this.

Essentially, he died here, only to be resuscitated and revitalized, but not to full health: only enough that his body could support life, until the Vilia were able to heal him.

The first night after the Dorocha were released, at least 50 of Camelot’s people died. This accounts for every individual who was struck by the Dorocha, as Gaius follows this statement with the fact that no mortal has ever survived their touch.

Now, this line could have been phrased in a number of ways: no one has ever survived their touch, few people have ever survived their touch, etc. But a deliberate choice was made for Gaius to specify that no mortal has ever survived their touch, in the very episode where Merlin survives their touch (a choice was also made to have Merlin looming in the background here).

So, let me ask you: remind you of anything?

I rest my case.

Do you ever think about how Merlin’s immortality was always implied (and teased) from the start but was never confirmed until the time skip?

1x04 The Poisoned Chalice: Merlin’s heart stops. Gaius and Gwen are already mourning when he wakes up from it. There is some plausible deniability here (a common theme for this arc), but Merlin dies with no resuscitation efforts made. The cure takes effect after he dies.

1x07 The Gates of Avalon: Merlin receives a hit from the Sidhe staff, a magical weapon which kills Aulfric and Sophia upon impact. Gaius claims that Merlin owes it to his powers that he survived, yet the (mortal) fae have great power and still die. Most likely, he died as he did from the Mortaeus poison, but resurrected with some recovery time. Merlin also sees Avalon itself, which is only meant to be visible to mortal humans in death. Merlin was not dead or dying, so he must not be mortal.

1x08 The Beginning of the End: Merlin is first referred to by the name of “Emrys,” which directly translates to “Immortal One.”

1x12 To Kill the King: Merlin hits two men with a staff blast, only for the third to be reflected back at him. The fates of the two men are unknown, but everyone quickly deems the situation resolved, so it’s likely they did not survive, whereas Merlin came back from a second hit.

2x01 The Curse of Cornelius Sigan: Gaius plainly states, “Sigan is immortal and you are not. If you face him, he will destroy you.” However, Merlin survives and defeats Sigan. Plausible deniability aside, Merlin’s immortality has been implied before this, so it’s likely an intentional hint.

3x06 The Changeling: Even the immortal fae can be killed with the Sidhe staff; they may have Merlin’s longevity, but they lack his invulnerability (if it can be called that—he does die, frequently).

3x08 The Eye of the Phoenix: Merlin is paralleled to The Fisher King, who has been confined to an unnatural long life and asks Merlin to aid him in his death. Merlin’s immortality likely has a different function than his, despite the parallel: it’s difficult but not impossible to kill The Fisher King, but if Merlin dies, he simply comes back.

3x13 The Coming of Arthur, Part 2: An ironic piece of dialogue between Lancelot and Merlin:

Lancelot: Aren’t you forgetting something? [The Cup of Life] is guarded by an immortal army.

Merlin: Aren’t you forgetting something? I have magic.

Lancelot: It doesn’t make you immortal.

Merlin: No…

This isn’t evidence of anything except that we were being strung along even during quiet, romantically lit mercelot moments.

4x01 The Darkest Hour, Part 1: Those who are struck by the Dorocha die instantly. Gaius informs Arthur, Merlin, and Agravaine, “No mortal has ever survived their touch.” All of the victims we are shown have died on impact, hence the high body counts with each night that passes. Merlin runs headlong into a Dorocha in order to save Arthur and is shown to have all of the same effects as the other casualties, yet survives.

4x02 The Darkest Hour, Part 2: Merlin is soon healed from his encounter with the Dorocha, but he plans to sacrifice himself to the Veil in Arthur’s place. While it’s uncertain to viewers if it is possible for Merlin to be the offering (it seems possible to the Cailleach, who phrases it not as a death, but a life lost: “Will you give yourself to the spirits to save your prince?”), the Cailleach tells Merlin, “Your time among men is not yet over, Emrys, even if you want it to be.” While this does not strictly indicate his immortality, it does foreshadow that his time among men is lengthy. 1,500 years lengthy and counting. Her words can also be interpreted as “Your time among men is not yet over, Immortal One, even if you want it to be,” which is a strong implication of immortality.

5x12 The Diamond of the Day, Part 1: Balinor tells Merlin, “Believe what your heart knows to be true: that you have always been… and always will be.” This has far-reaching implications. Merlin has always existed, even before his human incarnation. He is magic itself—son of the earth, sea, and sky. He is, essentially, a sentient piece of magic in human form. Just as energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transferred and transformed, you cannot kill Merlin in a way that matters. decay is an extant form of life 🍄 There is still some plausible deniability in Balinor’s insistence that “You will always be, just as I will always be.” Balinor is not immortal as Merlin is, which has the potential to mislead Merlin, but he lives on anyways—as a ghost and in Merlin’s memory.

5x13 The Diamond of the Day, Part 2: Kilgharrah leaves with final words of: “The story you have been a part of will live long in the minds of men.” After Arthur’s funeral and Gwen’s ascension as the sole ruler of Camelot, we cut to a disguised Merlin walking along a roadside, approximately 1,500 years after the events of Camlann, pausing where he laid Arthur to rest, the lake now a grassland. The memory does indeed live long in the minds of men, in Merlin’s mind at least.

Now, there are other events besides the mortaeus flower, the Sidhe staff blasts, and the Dorocha where Merlin may have died but come back, with both the audience and himself unaware of it due to plausible deniability.

The Serket sting in 3x01, which Kilgharrah heals him from

The poisoning in 5x08, which features a moment that is eerily similar to Merlin’s temporary death by poison in 1x04

Merlin’s fall from a cliff in 5x09: Arthur’s own fall is far less drastic. By all rights it should’ve killed Merlin, and it’s entirely possible it did

The arrow to the gut in 5x10; once again, Kilgharrah swoops in to save the day in just the nick of time… or does he?

He’s also left unconscious periodically throughout the series, with some cases deemed more severe, so pick and choose

I’m not the only one messed up by that, right?

[girlinthefireplace16]

Lost Rewatch - 4x02 Confirmed Dead

“You say you are not here on a rescue mission and the world at large believes us to be dead. But here we are alive and well and you don't seem remotely surprised to see us.”

[medievalraven]

re: the scars

i think a lot of people have already sufficiently covered a lot of the issues with the lack of scars on rio in 4x09 - but i wanted to throw in my two cents too :)

so personally while i find this exceptionally disappointing and probably one of the biggest missed opportunities of the series - it really is just the perfect example of what i think is the fatal flaw of this show in general: an inability to effectively and/or properly end storylines in a satisfying way after a major inciting incident.

the show loves these big dramatic moments - these ‘gotcha’ opportunities - and they do a good job setting them up, but time and time again they’ve demonstrated that it’s easier to just ignore storylines or brush them under a rug in order to move onto new things - new things that only exist because of that specific action.

i mean look at this short list of storylines that help spur the plot forward but have had very little, if any, proper ending or acknowledgement:

annie’s arrest in 1x06 (brought up in 4x09 but then immediately brushed aside without confirmation of what actually happened)

dean’s cancer lie in season one

dean’s financial choices crippling the family (brought in vaguely in 4x02 but again just immediately brushed aside)

dean’s shooting in 2x01 (now this one i’ll admit we do see ripples of in early season two with some episodes showing us that the shooting did put a new financial burden on the family, but it’s moved past pretty quickly - and the only person who does address it really is then dean who does so typically in a show of jealousy over rio and beth’s “romantic” relationship)

boland motors (and boland bubbles) seizure by law enforcement (presumably the bolands just had to sell them, but this is never really acknowledged)

the hills paying their attorney with counterfeit cash in 2x11

rio’s shooting in 2x13 (unrelated, but semi-related is rio’s amazing one month recovery from said shooting with no lasting effects seemingly)

beth’s “grief” arc (yes there was an arc, but i find the show’s decision to do a time jump immediately after 2x13 lazy and robs the viewers again of the nuanced fallout of such a traumatic event for rio, beth, ruby/annie/dean especially when we immediately jump to a time where everyone is fine and people are casually making jokes about dead rio)

turner’s death in 3x01 (which i’m willing to let slide a little, but i do think it’s a missed opportunity that this [and whatever else turner had on beth/rio/the girls] was never brought up with the whole secret service storyline)

dean’s lack of scars in 3x03 and throughout season four in the hot tub (barf)

rio killing fitzpatrick in 4x04

rio’s arrest in 4x08 (essentially glossed over in 4x09)

anyway - i guess just what i’m saying is while i think the lack of scars is horrible and frankly negligible of the show, it’s ultimately just part of a series of narrative choices that i believe just demonstrates that while the show wants to take on big storylines, they either lack the ability or choose to not then give said storylines the weight and nuance they deserve.

but out of all these choices?  yeah the lack of scars is probably one of the worst

[thuskindlyshescatters]

Wait, which confirmed dead characters have we been told multiple times IRL are coming back? Sorry I don’t really follow the outside-the-show side of things

OH I think I see where my confusion came from (I’m the anon asking about dead characters said to be coming back)—in your post answering why you don’t think the place they fell into is the afterlife, did you mean to say there are several confirmed dead characters that have been confirmed IRL to *not* be coming back?

Yeah, typo on my part, sorry!

There’s two that immediately come to mind: Pyrrha and Adam. After the outcry when Pyrrha died, Jen Brown (her voice actress) confirmed that she knew about her fate before she accepted the role and would not be returning to play Pyrrha, implying that the character does not appear in any form past her last appearance in 4x02. Jen Brown returned to RWBY to portray Pyrrha’s mother in 6x09, a nail in the coffin for hopes of Pyrrha’s return. A similar phenomenon occurred after Adam died, in which the CRWBY made it super clear to the complainers on Twitter that he was dead and gone, in defiance of people decrying “no body, no death”.

Furthermore, when the CRWBY wants to be cryptic about a character’s status, they’ll be careful not to discuss their death in any meaningful sense. Think Cinder after Volume 5, Neo before Volume 6, and Penny before Volume 7. Two examples of this being applied to characters that actually ARE dead are Roman and Clover, whose deaths were not frequently spoken of so as to not spoil the arcs forthcoming (for Neo and Qrow respectively). Additionally, Gray G Haddock (voice of Roman) has left RT, so the likelihood of him returning as Roman is slim, meaning recasting his distinctive voice is a barrier to his return.

Overall, RWBY does not typically bring back members of the cast with non-contiguous appearances between Volumes, the most prominent exceptions being Penny and Neo. The biggest reveal to the audience that someone is actually alive would be Summer, which at this point is still implied and under wraps, as it has been for the entire show! To put it simply, the probability based on previous evidence that the ENTIRE cast of dead characters will appear in Volume 9 is extremely low, and I feel like we’re just setting ourselves up for Atlas Ball Part 2 by theorizing so heavily around it.

[ohdesmondo]

“Wanna know why we're here?

I'll tell you why we're here!”

// [ 🌸 ; ✨ ; 📜 ]

4x02 “Confirmed Dead”

[princeescaluswords]

How do you think Stiles knew about Derek and Kate's relationship in 3x10? I'm pretty sure Scott didn't find out until much later?

There is very little we can say for sure.  We know that Stiles revealed he knew that Derek had a relationship with Kate in The Overlooked (3x10) and that Peter informed Scott in 117 (4x02).  Kate guessed in Formality (1x11) that Derek hadn’t told anyone about it, but since Derek neither confirmed nor denied her guess directly, all we have is speculation.

But I think that there is a lot of indirect evidence about which we can speculate effectively: Stiles figured it out because he’s curious, intelligent, and he notices connections.  After the events of season one, he had everything he needed to figure out how the Hale Fire occurred.

1. Kate Argent was behind the fire, but she hid that from her brother.  Stiles personally confronted Chris Argent about her sister’s violation of the Code.  Given Chris’s reaction -- his denial in the hospital room in Code Breaker (1x12) and his defending Scott against his sister -- it’s logical that Kate did something with which he would violently disagree.  Chris certainly didn’t start out the series with a reluctance to kill werewolves, and given that his best friend was in danger, Stiles would certainly look into it.

2. Derek left clues that he had a relationship with Kate.  Stiles became friends with Allison; Derek’s fear of her and especially his immense dislike of the relationship between Scott and Allison -- one which Stiles saw nothing wrong with -- seemed extreme.  If Scott told Stiles -- and I don’t see any reason why he wouldn’t -- about Kate’s predatory behavior toward him, that was simply another important clue.

3.  Stiles has a piece of information that the police didn’t have.  He knows the true motivations of Kate: the Hales were werewolves.  This is a mystery that only he could solve, and he demonstrated repeatedly that he loved solving mysteries.  We see him researching werewolves in Wolf Moon (1x01), researching auto accidents involving deer in Tattoo (3x01), and digging through school records in Parasomnia (5x02).   

4. He wouldn’t be deterred by boundaries.  Even though Kate was supposedly dead, Stiles would still want to understand what happened, because it would help protect Scott and his father.  Derek was an antagonist in Season 1 and a villain in Season 2.  Given his reaction to Theo in Season 5, it’s more than likely that he would dig through police records and school records.  If he found out that Kate Argent was a substitute teacher at Beacon Hills High School at the same time that Derek was a student there, which he might have been able to discover through yearbooks or school newspapers or school administration records.  “I may have broken into the administration office.”   It’s not unreasonable to believe that he put two and two together.

He didn’t say anything because he’s not completely without tact, but in the tense moments in the hospital during The Overlooked (3x10), his temper might have gotten the better at him and he lashed out at Derek in fear for his father’s life, making an intuitive leap with the information he had gathered.

Stiles isn’t always right, but a combination of curiosity, intuition, the need to protect Scott and his father, and his willingness to break the rules to get information could easily allow him to make the leap that Derek and Kate had a relationship.

I’m more curious how and when Peter found out, personally, but I have even less evidence to make an informed speculation about that.

[xdaddywalshx]

Connor Walsh and PTSD

I’m going to start this off by saying I am in no way diagnosing Connor. The purpose of this is to point out the PTSD symptoms that he shows throughout the show. I’ve noticed a lot of them more recently and wanted to see if anyone else had noticed these things too. Again, not meant to offend anyone. None of this is canon, or confirmed, so don’t take what I say to be fact.

1. Panicking when reminded of the trauma:

In 3x14 when Connor was explaining what happened the night Wes died, you could tell he was getting somewhat hysterical and he does the same thing talking to Annalise later on in the episode. He seems to constantly be in a state of panic, especially after what happened with Wes, most of the time it feels like you’re just waiting for him to start freaking out again.

2. Being easily upset or angry:

Like I said in the last one, it feels like he’s constantly on the edge. In particular, 5x04 showed just how easily upset/ angry he could get. All it really took was one small white lie and Annalise bringing up what he told her last year, and Connor just snapped. Annalise yelling back at him only seemed to make everything worse.

3. Irritability or aggressive behaviour:

Do I even have to mention 5x07? With Nate Sr getting murdered the other week, Connor was already on edge but usually one bad thing doesn’t make you go around doing stupid things unless there’s something that tells you that’s what you should do. He could’ve walked away from that homophobe, yet something inside him just snapped. According to Oliver, he had to pull Connor off of that asshole because it was bordering on Connor almost killing him. Throughout the rest of the show, he can be aggressive in other situations but this one in particular stuck out the most to me.

4. Self-destructive behaviour or recklessness:

Season 3. Do I have to say anymore? He spent most of season 3 being self-destructive. Connor lost his safe place and acted out because of it. Not to mention, him finding Wes dead on the basement completely broke him to a point where he almost did something stupid. After the season 5 finale, I can’t even begin to imagine how worse this issue is going to get.

5. Feeling like you have to keep busy:

Connor spent the entirety of season 4 distracting himself. He buried himself in work, so he didn’t have to think about what happened. He continued this into season 5. It always feels like he keeps distracting him with work, especially after Wes.

6. Feeling emotionally numb or cut off from your feelings:

“I don’t even care that Wes is dead. I don’t. Honestly, I don’t- I feel nothing.”

7. Using alcohol and drugs to avoid memories:

I noticed that he spent the majority of season 4 drinking. There are quite a few scenes of him in a bar or getting drunk- another form of distraction.

8. Blaming yourself for what happened:

In 3x14, he told everyone how it might have been his fault and later on in 4x02 he told Laurel how much he hated himself for what he did. Even when he talked with Annalise, he said “we did so many bad things” and then followed that up shortly with “Wes in the basement”. His guilt follows him around and pops up in subtle ways.

9. Overwhelming feelings of anger, sadness, guilt or shame:

The overwhelming sadness sticks out the most throughout his devolpment, in the beginning of 3x14 and 4a to be more specific. I’ve noticed how in season 4 he says how happy he is to be working on the class action- like a lot. Not in a grateful way, but almost as if he’s trying to convince himself that he is, which breaks my heart in so many ways.

In conclusion, I’m not saying he has PTSD at all but he definitely shows a lot of symptoms and usually if you are showing at least one avoidance symptom and at least two arousal and reactivity symptoms, and have been dealing with it for over a month then you are most likely suffering from it.

I hope the show discusses his mental health in future because this topic shouldn’t be brushed under the carpet, as real people deal with it and it might help to know that one of their favourite characters is dealing with it too.

Sorry for any mistakes, I don’t have time to proofread it.

[reddieandwaiting87]

Get to know the blogger: Edition Supernatural

21 SPN Questions Tagged by @alexa-alcantara

1. When did you start watching Supernatural?

Way back in the day!! 2005. Though can’t remember the month. To be fair it was 14 years ago.

2. Who is your favorite in TFW?

Really the TFW shit needs to die. It was said ONCE in S5 by Dean and he was being sarcastic. Also I believe alot of Destiel/Castiel twats use it as a way to shoe horn in Castiel and put him on the same level as Sam and Dean.

So yeah the TFW shit can go away. But back to the question. I love Dean but its always been Sam for me. Loved him since the pilot.

3. Who is your least favorite in TFW?

Castiel, obviously. I used to like him back in S4/S5 when he was an actual character and Misha was actual trying to act. But now he is a waste of screen time and the more they force him into eps and how important he is to Sam and Dean. The more forced and fake it becomes.

5. Who is your favorite character (not including TFW)?

Again with the TFW shit? Lol I think a Destiel/Minion did these questions.

The Impala she is the REAL 3rd lead after all and unlike some doesn’t let the boys down or hurt them. =3

6. Who is your favorite woman in Supernatural?

Ruby 1 and 2. I also like Rowena, Eileen, Ellen, Sarah, Meg 1.

7. John or Mary?

John every day of the week. Mary is awful, she is never around when needed, she will jump on any free dick just to be away from her sons. Samantha can’t act which plus that and the bad writing makes Mary come off as an uncaring dead eye bitch.

Also not a fan of being told how amazing characters are (the best hunter in the world? OK Jan.) but when it comes to actual showing it, they are useless/need saved.

Bringing Mary back was the biggest mistake the show ever did.

8. What were your first opinions of Sam, Dean, Cas, and Jack?

Sam: (from 1x01) Oh he is so good looking and adorable and so smart.

Dean: ( 1x01) Hot and funny with a cool car.

Cas: (4x02 I think) I thought he was cool. But from S6 to now I just hate him more and more. He is useless, a shitty friend and just is there to get beat up or fuck up and get away with it.....again.

Jack:  I HATED the whole Lucifer his a sprog idea back in S12, as its been done to death and done so much better. After seeing Jack in S13, I was shocked how quickly I liked him. I still do enjoy his character, I just think he gets a bit too much story lines though.

9. What’s your favorite season?

S1 and S2 will always be my fav but since I have to pick one it would be S2. I love powers!Sam and the special children and YED.

10. What’s your least favorite season?

 The later seasons can’t hold a candle to S1 and S2 but S10 is the worst by far. Demon!Dean and Mark of lame Dean was just Dean being an asshole but 100%. And that for a whole season was not fun to watch. There was also too many side characters. Even Sam’s hair looked shit.

11. Opinions on Destiel?

Why is there a Destiel question on this? We are talking about the actual show not fake ships. Anyway its a awful ship that as no moments nor is it romantic. When you have to use one character beating the shit out of another character as proof of love and your ship then thats your first clue you have an issue and your ship is fanon.

12. Do you believe Supernatural queerbaits?

Well this confirms a Destiel fan and Minion did this.

No Supernatural does not queer bait. There might be some fan-service here and there but thats it. Destiel fans not getting their way and then crying about it. Isn’t queer baiting. Just entitled shippers being assholes.

13. Seasons 1-7 or 8-14?

Season 1-7, don’t even need to think about it.

14. Favorite villain (plot wise)?

Yellow Eyes, Azazel. The first and best villain

15. Do you think they should end the Lucifer plot line?

YEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!

Lucifer is so fucking done and so is Nick. They need to start dropping the dead weight from the show.

16. Who do you think has gone through more trauma (Sam, Dean, or Cas)?

Both Sam and Dean have been threw Hell and back. I will say I think Sam as gone though more trauma though.

As for Castiel - Don’t care. He was watching TV while Lucifer was using his ugly body then act’s like he can’t bear to be around Nick. He can fuck off.

17. What’s your favorite Supernatural episode?

The pilot and Mystery spot. There are more but dont wanna list them all. XD

18. Do you like case episodes?

Of course!!! Anyone that calls them fillers are morons. MOTW eps are great, we need more of them and less side character drama I don’t care about.

19. Who do you relate most to in TFW?

TFW again? Oh boy.

Sam Winchester.

20. Why do you like Supernatural?

I love horror and love hot guys so win win. lol and its nice to get a show that isn’t about a couple of teenagers breaking up and getting back together or drama shit or a boring police show.

To have a show be about the love of two brothers and no sappy boring love interesting. Fighting monsters and doing anything for each other is a breath of fresh air.

21. If you could bring back one character and kill off another who would they be?

I would kill Castiel, Charlie-sue 2.0, Mary, Nick, all the other angels, Micheal, Garth.

I would bring no one back. This show as enough old dead characters no one asked for coming back.

Tagging no one

[the-bitchet]

my guesses for 8x02

One thing that was very obvious to everyone who watched Sunday's premiere was how much the GOT writers them a circular narrative. It's almost as if they went out of their way to reference previous premieres, not just the pilot. There were callbacks to 7x01, 2x01, 5x01, 6x01 and even maybe 3x01 and 4x01 if you stretch it. And while second episodes aren't as big of a deal as first episodes, if tptb are really tied to this structure below is what I'd be expecting for the second episode. This is 100% based on what we saw in 8x01 and the previous episodes referenced. I have no spoilers and will likely be 100% wrong.

- If Dany doesn't already know that Gendry is Robert's bastard, she'll find out now as it would just mirror what's happening with Jon but will also refer back to what happened in 2x02 and 3x02 where Arya's identity was revealed twice. Gendry may even get legitimized as again, it will mirror Jon's current arc and the offer Stannis made Jon in 5x02 (which itself echoes Cat's speech to Talisa in 3x02). The question is who would be doing the legitimizing?

- On that Gendry note, if there's a chance of him being Cersei's son with Robert, this is the episode to announce that as it was 1x02 where we first heard about him.

- If Howland Reed's going to show up, it's now or never. Not just with the North assembling to Winterfell but his kids made their first appearance in 3x02. Also it would help regarding the news about Jon. Maybe he will "legitimize" Jon Snow by confirming what Bran and Sam have said.

- If Cersei is pregnant, this is the episode where she miscarries - she mentions her first son with Robert in 1x02, Joffrey dies in 4x02, and Myrcella's funeral was in 6x02.

- If Theon wants to get back to Winterfell, having him arrive in 8x02 would bookend him parting from Sansa in 6x02 and his attempts to win Balon over to Robb's cause in 2x02.

- Also, if we're ever going to find out what happened to Ellaria or get a reference of Dany's alliance with the Greyjoy/Tyrell/Martell forces it's this episode as it was 7x02 where they first teamed up with Dany. Maybe Theon is salty he had to go it alone to get Yara back.

- I kind of feel like Euron should show up in Winterfell too but that just seems like a lot? Then again it is the last season. And he does kill Balon in 6x02 and go up against Yara in 7x02!

- Speaking of a lot, Bronn should arrive in Winterfell as 5x02 has references to Cersei's hunt for Tyrion and Bronn has prominent roles in 3x02 when he trained Jaime and 5x02 when Jaime asked Bronn to go to Dorne with him in exchange for money. Also, Joff's cool new crossbow had a moment in 3x02 when he threatened Margaery with it. So there's that too.

- There should be some choice Jaime and Brienne scenes as it was 3x02 when they traveled to King's Landing and 4x02 when they were reunited at Joff's wedding.

- Speaking of Jaime, maybe he does pledge to Sansa. Brienne first did it in 5x02. (Though she was rebuffed.)

- I think everyone who has been calling for Ghost might regret it. Lady died in 1x02. And we found out Shaggydog died in 6x03 so it could happen just at the end, like Lady, and we don't get it confirmed until the next episode.

- As I don't want to see Ghost die, maybe Jon's dragonriding (the literal dragons, I'm not being cute) alienates Ghost and he turns from him like Nymeria parting from Arya in 1x02 and again in 7x02. It would be a sad contrast to 6x02 Ghost where he stayed by Jon's side as he returned from the dead.

- Bran might do .... something? There was a lot of warging in 3x02 and 4x02 and Bran's time travel trip began in 6x02. [INSERT MAGIC STUFF HERE]

- 7x01 was Dragonstone with 8x01 being Winterfell. 7x02 was Stormborn so I'm guessing the 8x02 title could refer to Jon Snow - King of Winter/The Bastard (bonus if we get some stuff about Gendry)/ The White Wolf (Ghost is super dead if they go with this title)/The Snow of Winterfell?

- Other stuff - maybe Dany will consent to Jaime joining the cause with the same caveat about lighting him up if he betrays her that she gave Varys in 7x02. But 5x02 is also the episode where Dany has Mossado executed (but after a trial like she promises Barristan so she's not like her dad) which doesn't go great for her so.... Or maybe Varys betrays her this episode! Tyrion freed the dragons in 6x02, maybe they get chained again or someone talks about chaining them up? Jon Snow was also made Lord Commander of the Night's Watch in 5x02 after leaving for the Wall in 1x02. And Janos Slynt was exiled to the wall in 3x02. So maybe someone offers to take the black? Theon? Jaime? Ghost???

[thementalistmuseum]

The Mentalist Creative Fest

Don forget to participate. Here so prompts to inspire you, the full list is here

#038 - In 4x01, Jane loses the poker game in jail and isn't able to come up with bail money. Worse, his cell mates now know he lied about the vintage car collection. His only option is now murder for hire, unless he can convince Lisbon to bring him a blueberry muffin (or any other means of escape)...

#039 - 4x01: "Well first, eggs," said Jane in the car before they go see Sally Carter. Lisbon's thoughts about Jane's behaviour and situation.

#040 - Debbie Lubin manages to escape on her own while Sally Carter hosts the memorial party for Timothy Carter. Lisbon has to smuggle Jane out of there before the cops search the house.

#041 - Jane's thought process between then moment he thinks RJ is dead until the moment Rosalind confirms Timothy Carter was not RJ (covering 4x01 to 4x02).

#042 - Van Pelt has had a crush on Lisbon for a long time, and when Lisbon pulls her aside to reprimand her for using excessive force against a suspect again, Van Pelt decides to give into her feelings and kisses the boss. Sex ensues. ;)

#043 - Set in early season 4. Grace is strong, stronger than most believe of her, and if Jane keeps giving her those pitying looks she'll dump his tea all over him.

#044 - Post 4x10. After getting back his memories, Jane's mind is still fragile and every time he's in danger, he briefly reverts back to his conman persona. The only way to stop it is for the team (one member of your choice or the whole team together) to provide him with safety and an anchor to reality.

#045 - Jane doesn't get his memory back after 4x10. Lisbon's having conflicting feelings about that. Jane makes a wrong comment and they get into a heated argument and other things.

#046 - Amnesiac Jane tries every trick in the book to seduce Lisbon.

#047 - The almost-drowning causes some complications (like pneumonia), but Jane keeps it secret from the others until he collapses at the office or on the field. Lisbon orders Cho to look after Jane for a few days to make sure he recovers properly.

#048 - To encourage good relationships between teams, Wainwright organises a "Secret Santa" event. Haffner picks Lisbon's name and asks her team for help. But Jane's eagerness to help find the perfect gift is suspicious, and Haffner cannot decide if the man is really trying to help or deliberately sabotaging him.

#049 - Summer makes Cho deal with his back pain.

#050 - Cho isn't the only stuck-up person in the SCU. Summer helps Jane work through a few issues.

#051 - Cho's back is bothering him again and Jane offers to give him a massage.

#052 - Set in 4x12. Janpen wants to escape police custody. She isn't quite sure how to convince Van Pelt to let her go yet, but that's alright. She has experience on her side, and Van Pelt isn't immune to her charms.

#053 - I'd love to see anything with Jane and Jack - friendship or slash, whichever you prefer. The two of them catching up after the case, Jane telling Jack why he's working for the cops now, the story of the fifty bucks, some shared shenanigans from their carny days...

#054 - Set post 4x22. After finding out about his wife's infidelity, Greg seeks (platonic) comfort in Lisbon's company. But that does not sit well with Jane, who finds his emotions suddenly stirred by Lisbon spending time with her ex-fiance.

#055 - On the 10th anniversary of the death of his family, Jane gets drunk and visits Lisbon's house late at night. Things happen and they end up having sex. Then he leaves for Vegas the next morning without a word. One month later Lisbon finds out she is pregnant with Jane's child. Will Jane ever come back and will he ever love another child given the killer of his first child is still alive.

#056 - What happened in Vegas... is supposed to stay in Vegas.

#057 - Red John watches as Jane and Lorelei have sex. Alternatively, Jane knows that Lorelei is working for Red John and is imagining that Red John is watching them.

#058 - Darcy takes longer than anticipated to convince. Or the plans just change. Either way, Jane is kidnapped by Lorelei and delivered to Red John to continue their mind games in person. Whatever condition he is left in, he MUST be left in his own house, beneath the smiley face drawn in his family's blood. Because Red John can't allow Jane to think it would be so EASY to manipulate him. This is Red John's game. He decides how it is played. He can have Jane any time in any way he wants.

#059 - Post-Vegas. Jane starts getting withdrawal symptoms from having spend the last six months under the influence of drugs/alcohol. Cho, who's still angry at Jane for lying to the team, reluctantly ends up having to care for him.

If you have questions, please contact Leaf (Leafenclaw) on Twitter or Fanfiction.net

[twdmusicboxmystery]

Gracie/Beth Entanglement

Okay, so over the summer I did a post about how many child and baby references there are around Beth and Daryl. Check out all those references and my analysis of them HERE.

There are a few more I didn't catch when I first did that post, and now we have a baby (Gracie) in the show. So I was going to just add on to that post, but re-reading it, I kind of want to take this in a different direction.  

First, I'll do a quick list of all the references we've had:

Season 2:

In 18 Miles Out, Beth criticizes Lori for bringing a baby into such a horrific world. While it was a negative frame of mind, it also shows what she's thinking/worrying about. What's gonna happen to that baby?

Sophia, because Daryl searched for her and told Andrea the story about how no one looked for him when he got lost as a child. Daryl has a soft spot about these things.

Season 3:  

In 3x01, around the fire before Beth sings, she tells Lori that they've found a safe place for the baby. She shows a lot of concern for both mother and child.  

Daryl gets food for and then feeds Baby Judith, refusing to lose her. Beth brings him the bottle, standing by with worry and then takes over daily care of Judith.

Later, Sasha even mistakes Beth for being Judith's mother. Beth has to tell her that Judith isn't biologically hers.

Beth tells Carol that she's always wanted a child and talks about Daryl saving Judith.

Season 4:

Daryl saves kids when Patrick attacks the cell block in 4x02.

Beth asks Michonne if any kids were killed. She says they have words like widows and orphans, but why don't they have a word for a parent who loses a child? (Anyone seeing a POSSIBLE parallel to S8 in that?)

When the prison goes down, Beth leaves the bus to look for Judith, but doesn't find her. When she reaches Daryl before they leave the prison together, she says she was looking for the kids, to get them on the bus.  

In Inmates, during her diary voice over, she specifically mentions Lori's baby and needed a safe place for it to be born.

Later, they follow Lizzie and Mica's tracks, which because they are small, they assume to kids. Beth names Luke and Molly, who were the other two children at the prison, whose fates we haven't seen. Later, when they find the small, disembodied shoe by the railroad tracks, Beth starts to cry, assuming incorrectly that the tracks they'd been following belong to the dead people the walkers are eating.  

When they argue in Still, she specifically brings up Sophia, calling her, "That little girl," which shows she understands what that meant to Daryl and the soft spot he has for lost children.

Season 5:

In 5x02, we saw colored pictures of Baby Moses in his basket and the Burning Bush. I'm going to come back to this because it's what brings the whole theory together. Let me go through these other instances first.

We don't get too many after that before Beth is shot in Coda. But they continue after that.

In 5b, we still see Daryl showing concern for Judith, but we don't see him interacting with her or other children in the same way he did before leaving the prison. Most of us believe he purposely distances himself from children now because they remind him too much of Beth, which makes him sad.  

Then we have more in S6. There are the baby carrots Rick finds on one of the wolves while he's in the RV.  

And then Denise's stuff is pretty compelling. We all know what a major proxy she was to Beth. Not long before her death, while in the apothecary, she sees some really disturbing baby stuff that parallels Beth. Apparently someone was taking care of a baby in the back room. That person is now a walker. Hush, hush is written on the wall, and there's a sink full of black water with a baby shoe laying on one side. 

Though they didn't ever confirm it, I honestly think they meant to show that whoever this person was drowned the baby in the sink. That would have been too disturbing to show in detail on this show, but the point is it was very dark symbolism about a dead child. The shoe, though, was a perfect mirror to the one Beth saw on the tracks, which is just more ways in which Denise parallels Beth.  

I suppose you could argue that the shoe Beth saw didn't belong to the children she was tracking (lizzie and mica). She thought they were dead, but they actually weren't, so maybe the same was true of Denise. But I don't think Denise's situation is the one that really matters here. I'll come back to this idea.

Now, I could add Carol and Tyreese parallels to this. I won't because it would take too long and I want to keep this specifically about Beth and Dary. But I could add a lot more references by showing how those two characters are paralleled with Beth and have lots of baby references around them as well.  

So now fast-forward to S8. (I don't remember any specfic baby references in S7 other than Judith stuff in general. Anyone else) And we have Gracie. (Ignore the arrows in this pic; it was from one of last week’s posts.)

Gracie is interesting because, along with all the other things (like a billion) pointing toward season 8, she may be the embodiment of this baby symbolism. Most of what I'm going to say here is just conjecture. Things I think COULD be the case, but they would just line up really well with all the other stuff we've seen and theorized.

I've already talked about that maybe Beth was the one staying in the happy room, and/or the one who got out of the cuffs Daryl saw. If so, there's a good chance she's been taking care of Gracie up to this point.  

As someone noticed yesterday (X), there are definite parallels between the episodes in this season and S5. In 5x02, we saw the Baby Moses pictures in FG's church. In 8x02, Gracie shows up.  

Then there's what I said above about Beth believing the child's shoe she saw belonged to the person she was tracking, and they were dead, except they weren't. 

I've seen comments about how, if there was a woman, such as Gracie's mother, taking care of her, why would she just leave her baby? There could be many reasons, and maybe we'll see them as the story plays out. But based on that past symbolis with Beth and Denise, I’m wondering if at some point, this mysterious SHE comes back for the Baby, but Rick and Daryl already took her. Given that Rick killed the guard outside, she might think the baby was dead. 

We've also seen precedence for that with Judith's death fake out in 4x08. Just saying.  

Then there's all the rabbit symbolism, and the rabbit in Gracie's crib. I guess the point is that it's all coming together in a way that makes tons of sense to those of us who have been paying attention for the past three seasons.  

Baby Moses

So back to the pictures of Baby Moses and the Burning Bush in FG's church. Both of those are from the Moses story in Exodus.I never knew what to make of them, and didn't even connect them to Beth after we realized she'd come to Oceanside and started looking at the water symbols around them. Then, when @wdway and I started talking about Daryl = Fire, Beth = Water, the Moses pictures came up.

So my first thought was that the Moses story was being used as a template for Beth. We've seen them do such things with other bible stories and fairy tales. The two aspects of the stories we see are Baby Moses and the burning bush.  

So here's the story in a nut shell: Moses's people were enslaved to the Egyptians (bad guys) but there was a prophecy that a deliverer had been born, and the Egyptians believed it. So they decided to kill all the baby boys to make sure they took out this deliverer. To save him, Moses' mother put him in a basket and floated him down the Nile river. The Pharoah's sister found him. She couldn't have children, so wanted to raise him, and she did. He grew up knowing who he was and that one day he'd free his people. When he realized his Egyptian family was not cool with that idea, he ran away and ended up with another community called the Midianites after a long journey across the desert. He lived with them for a time and actually did find some happiness and peace there. Then he saw the Burning Bush. That was when God appeared to him, told him his people were still enslaved and he needed to go lead them out of bondage. And he did.

So in relating this to Beth's story, I was thinking that Moses was put upon the water to save his life. We think Beth will reach D.C. via water, so the a similar concept may apply. Perhaps getting on the water saves her from the "bad guys." (*Coughs wolves*) We also think she'll come through Oceanside. So maybe that's the parallel to the the second society Moses lives in. Maybe Beth will find Oceanside, see that it's a decent community, and plan to stay there for a time. But then SOMEONE has to be her burning bush, that tells here where TF is and that they're enslaved to Negan. Just about anyone at Oceanside could do that. Cindi, Rachel, Beatrice, Natanya. It would just be a matter of her letting slip some names they would recognize.  

So that was my first thought about the Moses stuff. Now, seeing Gracie, I'm wondering if it's something else entirely. We saw the pics of Baby Moses in the church in 5x02. Now Gracie shows up in 8x02. As I said HERE yesterday, there are also other parallels between episodes in S5 and S8, so this is important.

Also, who is fire? That would be Daryl. So the pictures of Baby Moses and the burning bush are a perfect representation of Daryl (Fire), Beth (Water) and the baby symbolism (Moses).  

It's also interesting to note that 5x02 is the same episode where Daryl saw the Grady car with the white cross and took off to look for Beth. That, combined with the 101 Days Without an Accident poster convinces me more than ever that 8x02 is the start of the sequence of events (just as 5x02 was) that will eventually lead to Beth. And Gracie is probably key to that.

Now let's say for argument sake that the Baby Moses picture was not about Beth, but just Gracie. Okay, maybe it was just to foreshadow Gracie herself in 8x02. Fair enough. But if Gracie travelled somewhere on the water to save her life, well, she wouldn't have done that all on her own, right? Someone else had to have travelled with her. Given all the water stuff we've seen around Beth, it STILL suggests her involvement WITH Gracie. Or, put another way, perhaps the pics in 5x02 were pointing to a baby showing up about the same time Beth does.

And then there's Morales. I don't think It's a coincidence that Rick ran into a long-lost, resurrected face from the past just after finding Gracie. Morales isn't Beth obviously, but I think we're looking at some symbolism there. A hint and a foreshadow that resurrection accompanies Gracie. Obviously they didn't want to reveal Beth quite yet, so they went with a smaller resurrection. I'll talk about this in particular more after the episode airs. I have some things to say that I gleaned from spoilers, but I'll just wait until after the episode airs tonight.  

Gonna throw one more piece of evidence out there. Full creds to @frangipanilove for noticing this. I'll post an edit in just a few minutes here to show you this visually, but when Rick (sheriff) walks into Gracie's room, in the FAR background (not the mural painted on her wall) you can see a framed picture of a heron. Guys, it's the EXACT same bird (I even think it's the exact same painting) that's on the wall behind Beth in the golf club. It shows up in the shot where she says, "We made it." Coincidence? Oh puh-LEASE. No way that's a coincidence. Beth is mixed up with Gracie somehow. I'm sure of it.  

So yeah, that's pretty much it. Just wanted to show how well this is all coming together and how much hope it's giving me.  

Oh, and if the S5/S8 parallels continue, well, 5x04 is Slabtown, and you all know I've been leaning really heavily toward her appearing in 8x04. Fingers crossed that we're interpreting this stuff right!  

[jeffcameron]

I just watched Lost 4x02 "Confirmed Dead"

[ninewheels]

NineWheels Rewatches Lost 4x02 “Confirmed Dead”

Let’s talk exclusively about Lost this time!!

Another all-skate (sorta), but this time only for the new characters off the freighter. Although Charlotte is a series regular and Frank will be one eventually, this is the one and only time either of them will get a flashback. Charlotte in particular is drastically underdeveloped for a main character.

Jeremy Davies is a really underrated character actor, and for my money, Faraday is an underrated character. He’s a very Later Seasons Of Lost kind of character, but that’s not bad, it’s just particular. He’s got the high-concept backstory and is directly related to the lore stuff.

Okay, maybe we’re not talking exclusively about Lost, because I know Jeremy Davies played Charles Manson in a movie once, and on the one hand he’s totally got the look for it and I’m sure he was excellent, but on the other hand it’s hard for me to imagine him not being a soft boy, because between this, Saving Private Ryan, his guest spot on Hannibal, etc. he’s just always a guy I want to give a hug.

[ettadunham]

Day 9 - One Night in October

It’s the 9th anniversary of the Fringe pilot!!!! But that episode was already on this list, so let’s move onto today’s entry, 4x02 - One Night in October.

There’s a very specific way in which Fringe makes you feel for serial killers.

I was mentioning this with Inner Child already, how the serial killer there wasn’t necessarily the norm on this show - the themes of Fringe center around family, love, human connection, and sometimes even forgiveness. The perpetrators are more likely to have sympathetic motives, even if it’s twisted and wrong and undeniably needs to be FUCKING STOPPED.

This episode however puts a bit of spin on that sympathy, because it’s not the serial killer we’re focusing on, but his alternate universe self who instead of becoming a killer spent his life trying to understand, and in his own word, ‘help people like him’. So it’s through him, through his conviction that he can help this alternate self of his, that we’re humanizing the killer.

And I know what kids these days would say on this site: ‘cool story, still murder’. And honestly, that’s a good mindset to counter being asked to sympathize with certain “”type”” of (= white male) murderers while often ignoring their victims’ narratives... But it’s not really the takeaway from this story, I think.

Because, again, at the end of the day, we’re asked to sympathize with the guy who despite coming from an abusive home, despite possibly having some mental health issues giving him those “urges” that were made worse by his father trying to “beat it out” of him... manages to turn his life around in the end. Because he ran away from that environment, and found someone who loved him after all. Not even a romantic interest, but a mother figure, who taught him how to control and counter these negative impulses and thoughts.

We’re also shown him failing to convince his serial killer counterpart to stop doing what he was doing. Because love can’t actually save everyone - or at least not without a cost of our own, one that we don’t owe to anyone.

So, in the end, what I took away from this story is that children need LOVE, and that having bad thoughts doesn’t make you a bad person. And I think that’s a pretty fucking good message.

Despite having an intriguing and memorable week of the case, this episode doesn’t lack stories for our own characters either - quite the opposite, really. The whole case is a joint operation between the two universes’ Fringe divisions, and remember, it hasn’t been that long that the bridge has been up, and our teams stopped being at war with each other. What’s interesting to me though, is that it’s Altlivia who brings up the idea in the first place.

You see, I always pegged Altlivia as more of the soldier type compared to Olivia. Sure, she seems more laid back and all that, but that also means that she’s more of a follower instead of a leader, and that she’s comfortable in that position. She does question authority and her orders, but mostly when there’s a good reason for it, and doesn’t just go around doing her own thing all the time like our Olivia. And that’s why I found it unusual to see her take the initiative here, pushing through an idea that their Broyles was opposed to as well.

And God bless her for doing so, because it gave us an entire episode of O2 goodness.

There are also some heavy moments after Olivia mentions his own abusive stepfather when they’re talking with John, and Altlivia overhears it. And Olivia not only confirms to her what we’ve already known, but says that SHE KILLED THE BASTARD DEAD IN THIS TIMELINE. And she does it in her usual dinner chat tone, the way only Olivia Dunham can talk about murder, bless.

And that made me think about which version of Olivia was better off in that regard. The one who didn’t kill her own stepfather as a child, the one that merely shot at him, and got terrorized by him with him sending letters on her birthday EACH FUCKING YEAR... Or the one who did kill him. Which must have been traumatizing as a child, but now he’s gone, and she was raised by Nina in return. Given the episode’s theme, it also feels like the show is trying to tell us that the difference that made Prime Universe Olivia hesitate perhaps was her encounter with Peter, who repeated his mother’s words to her “You gotta imagine how you want things to be, and then you can try to change them.” And isn’t that a message of hope, something to hold onto? But what does that hope truly worth when it comes with a price of living in fear for so many years?

Frankly, it feels like neither of those options are necessarily better than the other, that Olivia probably didn’t feel a peace of mind as a result either way. And perhaps that’s why the differences between amber and blue universe Olivia are so incredibly subtle.

Meanwhile Walter is struggling with his own issues, hearing Peter everywhere. Except of course, he doesn’t know it’s Peter. John Noble, as usual, nails these scenes, but that goes without saying.

This is definitely an episode that stayed with me, and as can be seen from all these rants, made me feel and think about a lot of shit. And that’s peak television for me.

Bullet points!!!!

Confession time: I definitely cross-shipped the Olivias and Lincolns at the beginning of S4. Not necessarily based on these small interactions, but because the idea seemed rather appealing. Of course, this show somehow found a way to kind of give me what I wanted in a way that I most certainly DID NOT want it to happen. Dammit show.

Scarlie is mentioned! Apparently he thought that Altlivia’s idea was crazy, but he was also “too busy sipping Mai Tais with Mrs. Bug Lady”. Which is a fancy way of saying that Kirk Acevedo had another show, so he didn’t have the time anymore to come over to Fringe for these Red!Verse episodes, but I appreciated that they tried to explain his absence nonetheless.

[curious-scholar]

Is it just who thinks Cami in 4x02 is some sort of ghost and not Klaus’s hallucination? I probably shouldn’t get too excited because JP has managed to crush my Klamille heart more times than I thought was possible. In the 4x02 promo, Cami tells Klaus “You’re the reason you’re family is still alive.” She’s reassuring him, trying to make him feel better. Doesn’t seem like something Klaus’s brain could conjure up. He’s not exactly good at making himself feel better. He thinks the worse of himself (Most of the time). Idk, it just feels like Cami, not Klaus’s wishful thinking. 

Also, I didn’t actually see the first episode completely, but I’ve seen the scenes with Klaus and there’s absolutely no hint of him hallucinating about her. You can never be sure with these writers but I think it’d be too random for him to suddenly start hallucinating after five years.

Also, the whole TVD finale thing happened (Haven’t seen that episode either. I already knew about Stefan. I loved him way too much, like I loved Camille. And I decided my shipper heart didn’t need that blow.) But I know A LOT of dead people are back. 

Idk. It just seems like she’s a ghost? Any thoughts on that?

Also, I read this interview where Yusuf Gatewood said that in his mind, he never really thought of Cami as Vincent’s friend. He thought of it more as unrequited love. I never thought of it like that before reading that interview and watching back some scenes (Yes, I’m still stuck up on Cami. Don’t judge me). I thought it was a possibility and I may have missed it. Watching some 4x01 scenes, it feels like Klaus isn’t the only one who couldn’t let Cami go. He went to Klaus, even reminded him of Cami and the goodness she inspired in her. Everything Vincent did over the past five years, building a sort of refuge for anyone who was tired of the ‘same old’ was something Cami would’ve been proud of. It feels like he’s really trying to honour the promise he made her and keep alive Cami’s wish. I felt really happy that at least the writers remembered that she had an impact on every one in the show, not just Klaus. I like the fact at least Vincent is trying his best to not let her be forgotten. 

P.s. I’m sorry this is so long. 

I agree with you that it makes more sense for Cami to be a ghost if she is telling Klaus things he couldn’t know. And why wouldn’t he hallucinate her wearing something familiar? On the other hand, Michael Narducci said that Cami’s appearance had something to do with Klaus’ psychological state, which seems more like an hallucination than an apparition--unless it’s because Cami has been watching over him and knows he needs her “presence” at that moment. But I can’t remember from watching the TVD finale whether ghosts can interact with the “living”?

Either way, they have confirmed that Cami appears in only one episode so these are the last face-to-face Cami/Klamille scenes we’re going to get.

I saw Yusuf’s comments too, but I think the viewer can interpret their scenes equally as either subtle romantic longing on Vincent’s part or platonic love. But whether Vincent had some romantic feelings for Cami or not in canon, she certainly had an impact on his life as well as Klaus’. It is nice that she was remembered in the first episode (though honestly I wouldn’t expect her name to pop up very often after 4x02), 

I’m going to enjoy seeing Cami again, probably get bitter and angry again at the end of the episode and then give up on the show. My advice, for what it’s worth, is not to expect too much. In my opinion, it’s a ploy simply to get enraged Cami fans to keep watching the show on the pretext that she will have a “presence” in Season 4.