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twdmusicboxmystery · 5 months ago

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This is amazing! Love it! I have some thoughts, but my internet has been out for the past 24 hours (still is) and I don’t want to type them all out with my thumbs. ☺️ As soon as a I get my WiFi back, I’ll address them. Brilliant post, @galadrieljones!

Chartreuse, P.A.D.R.E., The World Beyond coda, and some other potentially wild connections to Daryl Dixon season 2 (Team Delusional)

Hello friends. This post contains spoilers pertaining to recent script leaks, outlined in this helpful post by @bookqueenrules. If you don't want to know anything about these leaks, you can read this post all the way until I post a WARNING. At that point, you should stop!!

Anyway, here we go. Let's look at the shot above.

When I saw this shot in the DD2 trailer, I paused for several reasons. First of all, and most obviously, I saw the Mona Lisa, which is housed at the Louvre. Recall this shot from season 1, which draws a visual connection between the Mona Lisa (shot in the left side of the forehead) and Beth. Daryl literally stops to look at her, as if he is seeing exactly what we are seeing.

Now, the second big thing I noticed in that shot from the trailer, and what I want to talk about today, were several bottles of some sort of green liquid...

These are definitely bottles of CHARTREUSE.

Chartreuse is a unique French liqueur made of alcohol infused with 130 different herbs, flowers, and plants, and which always appears to be either bright green or yellow. Of course, the color green is always interesting to TDers when it is used out of context (ie: on things that are not usually green). It reminded me of two other important out-of-context examples of green in TWDU: the green chlorine gas from The World Beyond and The Ones Who Live, as well as the green corrosive substance which causes Amanda's death in the Tales episode "Davon."

The thing is, while it seems out of context here, it's really not. Chartreuse is supposed to be green. Very green. As far as alcohols go, it, just like moonshine, has quite a bit of symbolic significance pertaining to what's going on in TWDU...

A Quick History of Chartreuse

Chartreuse has many imitators, but much like French Champagne, there is only one real Chartreuse. Real Chartreuse is very expensive because it is in limited supply, literally produced by Carthusian monks near Paris. It is named for a monastery in the Chartreuse Mountains near Grenoble, France. It began with an alchemical recipe in 1605, presented to the Carthusian monks in the monastery outside of Paris by French King Henry IV, called an "elixir of long life." Over 120 years later, it was enhanced by a monk named Brother Gerome Maubec, and over the next 60 years became quite popular in France.

Anyway, during the French Revolution in 1793, the Carthusian monks were exiled from France. They took refuge in Spain until 1816 during Napoleon's reign, when they returned to France and continued to hone and develop their "elixir of long life." But in 1903, they were exiled again, their distillery confiscated by the French government, and they returned to Spain, specifically a city in Catalonia named Tarragona where the French monks would remain, distilling the only authentic Chartreuse in the world, until they were finally invited back to France after World War II.

Parallels to French History in DD season 1

Okay, why is any of this important? To answer this question, we need to return to the World Beyond season 2 coda, but first, we should recall the events of Daryl Dixon season 1. In season 1, Daryl is taken in by Catholic nuns in an abbey near Marseille. He befriends a nun who implores him to embark on a journey to Le Havre, a place called the Nest, where he will deliver Laurent, a "sacred" boy whose "power" we don't really understand. When they finally arrive at the Nest with Laurent, we meet Losang, who is, in fact, a monk, and who has just come from Spain. Losang is not just a monk, and he wasn't always a monk. Though we know little about his past, we do know that he is originally American, and that he came to Paris to study before the fall.

In season 1, we also meet Genet whose movement The Power of the Living (or Pouvoir des Vivants) espouses strong French Revolutionary vibes. She wishes to return the power to the people in France, implying that in order to do this, the people must rise up to "usurp" said power from somebody else. We don't know for sure who Genet's true enemies are, but it does seem that Genet's enemies have some relationship to Losang, The Union of Hope, the Nest, and the USA, hence her relentless hunt for Daryl and Laurent and her impending assault on the Nest. She even shouts "Vive le France!" during the arena fight at the end of season 1, an exclamation associated with the Storming of the Bastille in 1789.

Losang's faction the Union of Hope is described in season 1 as a movement that unites all religions and all people. While it is helmed at the Nest in Le Havre, it knows no borders. We meet several sub-factions in France, including Lou's group of "Lost Boys" as well as Fallou's people in Paris. We also get some sense that there are arms of the faction in Spain, as Isabelle mentions a spaniard on the radio, and Losang has come from a pilgrimage in Spain, one that @frangipanilove has written about brilliantly. Read here.

The World Beyond: The Science of Wildfire

Let's return now to the World Beyond coda. In the coda, we meet a nameless French scientist who downloads the contents of several hard drives onto her laptop at what appears to be an old bioresearch laboratory, somewhere in France. One of the hard drives contains several folders of interest, including one titled "TB Ellis Papiers" and another titled "Slingerland," which is currently still a mystery, though very interesting, as it is the name of a prominent American musical instrument manufacturing company from the mid-to-late 20th century, which mainly manufactured drum kits and guitars. (If anybody has their own theories on Slingerland, let me know, as it's an obsession for me lol).

The French scientist proceeds to watch a video of correspondence from Dr. Jenner from season 1, who discusses at length many scientific angles on producing or addressing a cure or some sort of treatment or mitigation factor for the Wildfire virus.

As she is watching, an assassin enters with a gun and asks if she is on the "Primrose Team." She corrects him to say that she is on the "Violet Team," and that the Primrose Team was in Toledo, Ohio at the time of the fall. The Teams, as we can gather, are groups of scientists, possibly dispersed internationally, who developed the Wildfire virus and, in their efforts to curb its effects, the French teams specifically, created deadly variants, which, according to Jenner in the video, are not endemic to the US. We believe that the Jenners were members of the Violet Team, given their correspondence with the French scientist on the Violet Team and the fact that Jenner's computer assistant is named "Violet." Of course, that's just speculation...

The assassin in question seems to be unaware of the details of what's gone on with the French teams and is only carrying out assassinations on his leader's behalf. He mentions that they are no longer simply jailing the scientists. They're killing them. His faction, which I believe is the Power of the Living, blames the scientists for causing the Wildfire spread, and also for "making it worse." He shoots the scientist in the head and leaves, at which point, even despite the headshot, she turns into a walker and runs violently toward the door.

In this interaction, we learn that at some point in the first ten years after the fall, a major faction (likely the Power of the Living) began hunting the scientists responsible for the Wildfire virus, jailing, and killing them. Some of the scientists were in America at the time, in Ohio, and we think that some of them are still there, and that they possibly attempted to migrate down to the CDC in Georgia at the beginning of the outbreak. The reason for this is that there are variants of "smart" walkers which seem to exist *only* in Ohio and Georgia and *not* in Virginia. In seasons 1-4 and 11 only, we run into walkers who can run, climb, and use tools. Some even have keepsakes, such as the very first walker we see in "Days Gone Bye." She reaches for her stuffed bear, which implies some semblance of "memory" hanging on from her old life.

Mainly these walkers are encountered in Atlanta and later at the Commonwealth. Since Jenner verifies in his video that he hasn't seen any evidence of variants at the American CDC, this suggests that the variants arrived in Georgia at some point in the first three weeks of the outbreak, or before Rick enters Atlanta for the first time.

Anyway, given that we meet one of the scientist in the WB coda, this suggests that there are more in existence, but that they've simply left France. She came back to see if the Primrose team might be there, after all this time. She was wrong, but this scene has given us many massive clues. This is where the folklore of Chartreuse becomes very interesting.

When the Carthusian monks, or the makers of the "elixir of long life" were kicked out of France, BOTH times they went to Spain.

In Spain, they continued their operation until the French were so threatened by it, they finally invited them back after WWII. Given all the WWII callbacks we get in DD season 1, including the revelation that Daryl's grandfather died on the beaches of Normandy, it may be that we are currently entering into a "proxy" situation, in which Daryl fights alongside his allies in France to defeat an existential threat. Only this time, unlike his grandfather, he will survive, and he will live to see his home and his loved ones again, and soon, the "cure" or science which could mitigate the Wildfire virus, could return to France.

The "elixir of long life," aka Chartreuse, could be a compelling historic and symbolic proxy for the Wildfire virus, which I have speculated, based on its regenerative effects in walkers (ie: slowing down their rate of decay, a scientific process that is discussed in World Beyond, but which is not well understood) could have started as a cure for death or the aging process, or a way to heal and regenerate mortal wounds. A literal fountain of youth. The holy grail. A true "elixir of long life." Unfortunately, it was leaked and allowed to infect humans en masse before it was adjusted beyond its most destructive phases. This is just a theory, mind you. It's just based on a hunch.

Either way, remember that the holy grail, which is determined to be "holy blood," is the object of an intense search in the book and film The DaVinci Code, which has been cited multiple times in relation to the lore of TWD, particular TD theories, and which was the inspiration for the TV show DaVinci's Demons, which Scott Gimple wrote for prior to his work with TWD.

Like the Carthusian monks, the scientific teams in France were hunted, jailed, and exiled by a revolutionary cause and took their science with them. If this comparison is intentional or holds any water, it creates a very likely scenario for why season 3 will take place in Spain. If Genet is behind the exile, then this would also explain why Genet is so intent on attacking the Nest and neutralizing Losang and his forces. She wants the scientists dead and out of France.

What are Losang's Motivations?

Returning to Losang, my fellow theorists and several other TDers are suspicious of Losang after his motivations come into question in the ten minute preview currently available on AMC+. Losang is hesitant to attack Genet even though she has taken several of his people as prisoners. He is also critical of Daryl's attempts to teach Laurent self-defense. Why would that be? He says that it is unhealthy to expose Laurent to so much violence, but he says this knowing that Laurent traveled all the way to the Nest with Daryl and Isabelle, and was almost killed multiple times, that he already had to kill a walker to save Isabelle's life, and that said walker was his own biological father. In what way will teaching him to protect himself in a dangerous world keep him from experiencing the same trauma that he's already experienced?

One reason could be to keep Laurent as helpless as possible, ignorant, focused only on the intellectual and the spiritual, not the physical. It could, of course, be innocent but we believe Losang may have ulterior motives or plans for Laurent, who was born to a walker. The speculation that Laurent may have inherited some sort of immunity to the Wildfire virus has been rampant in the fandom, prompting many to make comparisons to Ellie in The Last of Us. Within TWDU, Laurent having any sort of immunity would make him very valuable to cure research and very interesting in terms of deepening the Wildfire origins lore.

If Losang, as an American, was in Paris to "study" at the time of the fall, it is likely he was at one of two major research universities in the region: the Sorbonne or the Pasteur Institute, the latter being at the forefront of vaccine technology in the modern world. While, of course, we don't know for sure, and we could always be wrong, the notion that he could be a scientist or medical/research doctor is not unfounded. Eastman, a good character proxy for Losang, and who counsels Morgan in the season 6 episode "Here's Not Here," found a similar spiritual awakening in the Eastern philosophy of Aikido after the fall. Eastman was a psychiatrist in his previous life.

I also believe that, logically, it is time for Daryl Dixon to follow through on the connection to the World Beyond coda, considering the fact that Scott Gimple verified a connection between the two some time ago. The set-up with Losang, a highly intelligent leader and "pilgrim," reformed monk who has just come from Spain despite being an American with an academic past, would be the perfect opportunity for the writers to draw a strong connection between two major themes in TWDU, which have been percolating for a while: science and faith.

Child Abduction, the Nest, and P.A.D.R.E. (***Major Spoilers Ahead***)

This is where you should stop reading if you don't want spoilers!

Something my fellow theorists and I have started kicking around, in the wake of a recent script leak, which is apparently the final moments of the final episode of season 2, is the possibility that Laurent will be abducted, or that he'll be lured away from the Nest by someone he trusts, perhaps Losang.

Note that the leaked script implies that, by the end of season 2, Isabelle has apparently died. Laurent is also not present in the final scene. I do not believe the writers will kill off Laurent, but that instead, they'll use him to broaden the scope of the world (and to soften the hearts of both Daryl AND Carol). I also don't believe that Daryl would leave Laurent behind in France with Isabelle dead, or that Laurent would want to be without Daryl, given all they've been through and their attachment to one another. In the trailer, we hear that Daryl and Isabelle have begun to discuss taking Laurent back to America. After the war in France, if Isabelle is gone, it might be that Laurent will still want to go back with Daryl and Carol. But since we don't see him in the final scene re: the leaked script pages, and we haven't heard anything about him in Spain, could it be that, when Daryl and Carol return to the Nest to retrieve him (in a coda, perhaps) he's just gone?

Let's talk about child abductions and missing children in TWDU. While the notion of child abduction starts with Jocelyn in "Scars," it comes to a head in Fear, seasons 7-8, in which we learn that children are being abducted by mysterious "snatchers" and taken to a highly secretive place called P.A.D.R.E., where they are trained to fight, essentially, a walker war. P.A.D.R.E. began as a US Military operation, designed by politicians, military personal, and other experts to maintain sustainability after the fall of civilization due to the Wildfire virus; however, for reasons I don't have time to get into, it turns into something else completely. The children at P.A.D.R.E. are all given BIRD NAMES, ie: Finch, Dove, Wren, etc. Madison Clark, who turns up alive in season 7, is nicknamed Lark, and she starts her journey toward redemption as one of the "snatchers" who steals "eggs" or babies and children from "unfit" parents and returns them to the safety of P.A.D.R.E..

This is very interesting. Let's consider the terminology, which greatly revolves around BIRDS. Children who are good prospects for "snatching" are called "eggs," and where might eggs be stolen from?

A NEST.

The children are then nicknamed after birds and taken to P.A.D.R.E.. "Padre" is a SPANISH word. It means priest or father.

So we have bird eggs being snatched from their nest, taken to a place with a Spanish name related to themes and inventory of Catholicism. Is it possible that P.A.D.R.E. was foreshadowing for the events of Daryl Dixon? Is this why the writers chose bird names for P.A.D.R.E.'s wards?

This is also where we might consider Beth coming in, because Beth's main job when she was with Team Family was taking care of Judith and the children. When they escape the prison, she survives because she leaves the bus to go searching for the children. In "Inmates," she leads Daryl on a search for missing children, which ends badly.

Beth also has a bird cage in her cell in "30 Days Without an Accident."

Is Beth in Spain? Will Laurent be taken there? Is this where the French scientists are hiding out, continuing to develop their "elixir of long life" in secret? Some sort of "Spanish Slabtown?" Are they conducting research on children who are "special," people who have "immunity?" Was Beth part of something bigger than we realize? Bigger, even, than the CRM? Something that spanned international borders? Something related to the origins of and cure for Wildfire?

For a very long time, the season 5 templates have lead us to believe that Daryl and Carol will leave together to search for Beth, but what if they're searching for Laurent, and they find Beth by mistake? OR, what if, while they're searching for Laurent, Beth finds THEM? In any case, it's very important that Carol be there for it, as she is the only other living person who we know of that has been inside of Grady and might have memory of what went on there.

Only time will tell. For now, it's fun to speculate...

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#the walking dead #team delusional #bethyl #i feel it!!#team defiance #beth greene #beth greene lives #beth is alive #beth is coming #td theories

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