#you could see this as ship or platonic really

[lostsoulofdragon]

Hey, aroace here! I’d like to share my view of this issue here.

so, I mostly identify as female, and a super close friend of mine as male. Normally, many, MANY people around us started to see us as a couple, that probably dated in secret.

truth is, no, we’re just best friends. Even my other bestie shipped us (but she didn’t press us to show how ‘together’ we were, it was more of a joke with her, and that is something I personally don’t mind to much). But he just helped me out of a really really fucked up part of my life. I was suicidal, probably depressed, tried to end it, and I was practicing light SH.

he got me out of there by simply being a friend, supporting and listening to me.

we had little to no contact before that, and suddenly, we were bestest of friends. then the rumors set in. “Oh, you’re a cute couple! You’re a couple right? No? Well you should be!”

even my family, who I’ve stated to multiple times that I’m NOT interested in a relationship started to ask me if he was my boyfriend, and when I declined, they went ‘that’s a loss, he’s a nice guy!’

I don’t understand why platonic love and friendship are so underrated, almost seen as invaluable in this society. I’ve always felt pressured to get a relationship, and when I did get into one, I could not manage to take it seriously. To me, it was just weird. Why should I kiss and hold hands, when I’m perfectly fine with the occasional hug or just a playful shove? Why do I need to strive to be married when it just means sharing rent and blowing money on a ceremony? Why should I push my friends, who I’ve grown to like- REALLY REALLY like- into the background for someone who could leave even easier than them? And why should I then be heartbroken over it?

I just don’t get it. I wish we as a society would start accepting that no, friendships and platonic relationships are NOT necessary. Love and sex are NOT mandatory for a fulfilled life. If you want that to be a goal for you, it’s TOTALLY FINE. Just don’t go and try and press it onto others, that have different goals.

((a song that does a good job explaining how an especially Aromantic person feels about this is (in my opinion, which is NOT what you should take as a norm) ‘Aromantic’ by Mike Fonzarelli Roberts.))

Normalize super close friendships instead of assuming there must be a romantic and/or sexual factor—friends are a wonderful treasure!

[cushfuddled]

what are your thoughts on the "Arcane Viktor was meant to be ace" that has been said in an interview? Like yes - word of god feel free to ignore - but they said they tried to write him that way. Do you think they succeeded?

Hiya! Thanks for the ask! :D

I was honestly shocked to hear Linke "always" meant to depict Viktor as asexual. It strikes me as a deeply disingenuous comment, not least of all because I want to believe someone who "always thought of Viktor as asexual" and was driven by a desire to make ace people happy would...I dunno...display a slightly better grasp of what "asexuality" even means.

LINKE: I know there are some people who ask this. There is a love. I don't think it's romantic…I remember many, many years ago also thinking about this when we started developing these characters. To me, I can say something here now that would be good for you and bad for me because it will be a wildfire. To me, Viktor was always asexual, and that was always something we talked about from the very beginning. So, a romantic relationship between Jayce and Viktor was just never part of it. There is a love, absolutely, but we also found it a bit... Love and relationships are so complex and take so many different forms. Viktor loves in a different way, and that's okay, no? ...It's something that when we talk to our LGBTQ group within Riot, I remember asking the group many, many years ago, like, "What is something that you never see depicted very well?" And someone said asexuality. They say it's often depicted as, like, emotionless when it's not true at all. It's just that your feelings don't mix with physical. So, to me, that was always part of Viktor. [x]

I didn't feel seen at all by this kind of retroactive ace rep, but I did feel truly, deeply moved by the fandom's response.

Because I know this song and dance. A showrunner or someone with similar "creative authority" describes a character as ace or aro, and the fancops take out their soap boxes and declare,

"All right, everybody! You heard the man! No more sexy fanfic and fan art! This ace/aro character is officially off limits!"

And then aro and ace people like me, who ENJOY smutty fanfic and fan art and want to see our favorite Barbie dolls kiss, are viciously harassed for our hubris. For at least a year I watched my favorite TMA fan artist get dogpiled to hell for daring to draw NSFW art ofJonathan Sims. And yes, this artist was also ace! To fancops, the opinions of aces and aros who like to consume or create smut don't count. We're all "degen" traitors who deserve to be bullied out of fan spaces for the sake of The Good Ones.

So anyway! ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ

Christian Linke came out of the hole in my wall and told me Viktor and Jayce aren't gay.

“Was there ever a ship?” LINKE: “It’s strange that people say that’s the only close relationship that two men could have is to be a couple, you know? There’s really close friendships and like, brotherhoods if you will…like, really being there for each other. Um. [That] is something that was…really important for us to explore. So…it seems like there’s no other version, you know? For some fans, they say like, ‘Hey, there must be romance,’ and we’re like…these relationships can be really layered and really complex, you know? I think there is some kind of…there is a love between them. I just don’t think it’s romantic, you know?” [x]

(If I have to hear one more creator clap back at a hopeful "could they be gay?" with a bizarrely defensive spiel about the transcendent magic of platonic bonds and how men aren't allowed to foster close platonic relationships I'm gonna hemorrhage something, but that rant already lives over here so whatever)

First of all...

:3c

...For someone so committed to propping up the ace and aro community with canon rep, this November 28 2024 version of Christian Linke sure doesn't mention asexuality or aromanticism at all. The genergous ellipses from the excerpt above aren't a creative embellishment on my part. Those pauses are very much apparent on the Twitch stream. Linke appears to really dig for the right words here, yet the terms "asexual" or "aromantic" evade capture. But sure, asexuality was "always" a part of Viktor for Linke.

Maybe Linke didn't want to draw fire from fans with a "Dumbledore is gay" moment, so he left any definitive terminology off the table. In any case, I watched the Jayvik community respond to Linke's Twitch stream like so:

This was, to put it mildly, fucking hysterical. I've never seen a community so decisively "...anyway" a showrunner over queer rep before.

This is horribly unfair for me to assume, given I know next to nothing about Linke and his capacity for petty vengeance. His timing could be totally coincidental, his efforts completely genuine. But the fact that Linke dropped this ace Viktor bomb less than two weeks after his Twitch stream smells like a tantrum to me. In my least charitable vision, I see a man who declared Jayvik platonic by order of Authorial Intent, watched his fandom go, "That's nice grandpa. So about that Hextech sex toy fic—", and was so offended by shippers' casual disregard as to "strike back" with something they couldn't possibly ignore. Thus the "Viktor was ace the whole time" card, when

The word you're looking for is "aromantic," Linke. That's the one to do with romantic attraction.

I know it can be difficult to canonize asexuality and aromanticism. If someone tried to kiss Viktor and Viktor pulled back like, "I don't feel things that way"...would that reaction be enough to make Viktor canonically aro? Perhaps Viktor would need to clarify: "I don't feel things that way." "Which way?" "The...romantic way.” “I don't understand." "You are my partner, Jayce. I love you. I want to be with you. But I will never want to kiss you." I’m tempted to champion that second option, but I can see the argument for less stringent criteria. Ambiguity is...organic, I guess. Too much clarification can read as disingenuous and preachy, like one of those after school specials. Still: I've spent too many years dancing for table scraps to ascribe sanctity to headcanons.

At the end of the day I just don't buy Viktor as ace/aro per Linke and Lee's creative vision. Sky felt like such a classic case of "straight key jangling" to me—i.e. a one-dimensional female character who exists to reinforce a male character's straightness. (My favorite example of this phenomenon = the time Cas Supernatural became mortal ((and thus capable of sexual attraction)), met a woman, slept with her, then killed her within the span of a single episode. Why showrunners seem to believe a female love interest invalidates queer readings, I cannot begin to guess). Even as Viktor pulled his hands away from Sky's—even as Sky told him, “No you won't"—I couldn't help but feel like Linke and Lee had a bullhorn to my ear the whole show: "Oh no, these poor lost ships in the night! How tragic, that Sky was so ready to love Viktor with all his faults and cracks, and Viktor could've found love and purpose outside his work had he only stopped long enough to notice! How tragic, that Viktor only came to understand the nature of Sky's feelings for him after his work had stolen her away! How tragic, that the thing Viktor so desperately craved was right there the whole time, from the moment he launched that toy boat to the night he activated the Hexcore!" It felt like Sky was meant to represent potential, a la the limitless expanse of the heavens. In such a complex cast, Sky stands out like a sore (cardboard) thumb. When Viktor lost Sky to his ambition, she was forever frozen as a "what could have been," reduced to a symbol of roads untraveled. With all those Vibes in the air, I'm like...uh...Linke? Tell me again about how you wanted me to read Viktor as aro this whole time???

I'm sure some ace and aro folks were bolstered by this situation, and lord knows I don't want to yuck on anybody's yums. But for me personally, Linke's comments were like a punch to the throat. It felt like Linke wanted to use me as a police baton to beat back the hordes of evil shippers. What meant the world to me was, once again, the fandom's response. NO ONE TOOK THE BAIT. At least here on Tumblr, all I saw were ace, aro, and allo fans A. clarifying ace and aro terminology, and B. creating smut out of spite.

I cannot stress how fucking INSANE this was to witness as someone who's dealt with a lot of shame re: my aegosexuality. I've never felt so seen and supported as an ace person by a fandom community. Every Jayvik fic with a "this one's for you, Linke"-esque note adds another five years onto my life. I seriously love you all. Please keep being your glorious selves.

[cryinhell]

No one asked, but here's my updated top ten hellaverse ships (both canon and not)

10) Stella x Striker

What can I say? I love an evil couple. I think these two look pretty hot together, and it's interesting how Striker seems to respect Stella despite hating blue bloods. These two aren't canon, but I wouldn't mind if they were

9) RadioRose

Despite having mixed feelings on Alastor, I think these two are just so cute. Either as a couple or just queer platonic partners, I don't care. Rosie seems to be the only person to make Alastor genuinely smile, and she's the only one who can touch him. There's a special bond there I really like

8) Verosika Mayday x Wally Wackford

So this is the biggest crack ship on this list, but I think in theory, it's so cute. I really want Verosika to be happy, and Wally, despite being a bit of a scammer, is really sweet. I'm totally cool with Verosika ending up with Barbie as well, but I slightly prefer Wally. I wonder if they will have more interactions in future episodes.

7) Fizzmodeus

Is this controversial? Probably. I know Fizzarolli and Asmodeus are so loved in this fandom, so putting them at number 7 is awful...but they aren't my favorite. I do like them, and I think they're really cute! I just have ships I like more, but that doesn't take away how sweet these two can be. Sometimes obnoxiously sweet heh. So yeah, no disrespect to these two

6) M&M

So these two were at first kinda meh for me, but over time, I've grown to love them. They have a pretty healthy relationship, and I always hate when someone bothers Millie for marrying Moxxie or saying Moxxie isn't a good enough husband. These two clearly love and respect each other and clearly grow together with every episode.

5) Staticmoth

Like I said, I love an evil couple. Valentino is a monster, and Vox is deplorable. That doesn't stop me from loving them as a couple and thinking they are cute. I think they both should die, but also would be sad cause come on, they're cute together.

4) Cherrisnake

I love Sir Pentious, I love Cherri Bomb, so obviously, them together is a fun pair. I shipped these two before the show came out and was so excited to see Pen having a crush on Cherri. They kinda remind me of the early versions of M&M, but they need a lot more time. Cherri isn't ready to accept love, and Sir Pentious is well...in a different world. I can't wait to see these two develop and become an actual couple.

3) Adamsapple

So this and Lucilith could be here. Lucifer being happy is the main objective, and its Adamsapple is so fun. They clearly have a history, and there's a lot of feelings. If Adam comes back in season 2, I'd love to see this be fleshed out. I doubt they'd be a couple, but maybe friends? Who knows. I'm fine with this one not being canon, and just something fun in the fandom

2) Stolitz

Stoltiz is pretty important to me because it really got me involved in the fandom. I've been watching Helluva Boss since the beginning, but episode one of season two had me from casual watcher to actual fan. Blitzø is one of the characters I really relate to, and Stolas is just a really well written character. I love the development of these two and they are worth waiting for. I really gotta draw some fanart of them because they are everything

1) Huskerdust

Are you surprised? You must be new. These two are my everything and all time otp in the Hellaverse. I've talked so much about why I love them, and I will continue to do so until I can't any longer. Angel and Husk are not only my favorite characters individually, but their growing friendship and eventual relationship are just so ughhhh. I love these losers, and they will always be number one.

Thanks for reading my nonsense

Have a good one 💜💜

[ninja-crybaby]

love how they did this shot - isagi just looks like he’s meeting his partner after class or some shit. fucker is leaning all casual, like he’s not been fighting for his life to get back to Bachira.

there’s no indication as to how long he’s been just waiting there - could be 5 minutes, could be an hour.

could he hear bachira’s and rin’s previous conversation about bachira’s football style and how dependant it is on others? probably not through how thick the walls/door looks, but he was also not suprised to see rin there too.

either he heard them both on the training pitch, or he just new that bachira would gravitate to the strongest player there.

i love bachira’s shock here. it’s not like he ever doubted that isagi would come back, i just think he expected it to take longer. look at how serious isagi looks here, too. bachira gets to see just how much he means to isagi and how driven isagi has been to get him back.

it’s actually only been 4 days since the two were separated (i think i’ve worked that out right), and isagi has come a long way in that time.

i love how well their relationship works - they’re honest with each other from the very beginning and we’ve seen the lengths they’ll go for the other. well, we’ve seen it with isagi, and we’ll see it with bachira if the next chapters are any indication. it’s rare to see a relationship so build on trust and just knowing the other person inside and out. i love it.

[musicals-and-mushrooms]

ok so a while ago i said id post some of my sketchbook art and i didnt but i was just thinking about twelve and clara and i did this page im very proud of it i think the twelve walking past claras portrait was an instagram trend idk but i used @rumple04 for the reference hope thats okay!!! (Checkout their account their art style is SO PRETTY!!!) I just dont know how to do poses anyway enough yapping heres the page

I stuffed up on a lot of things and its different to what i normally do but i am really proud of it!!

[galactic-rhea]

Thoughts on Padmé x Anakin x Rex?

Padmé and Anakin are so mutually obssesed they would first have to check into that before trying to bring another person to their carefully-balanced-kind-of-damage or something it's going to explode.

Honestly it's a fun ship! But I don't have too many thoughts about them because when I consider them is usually in very low-stakes-fun-AU-scenarios.

And I'm actually a bit of a fan of Rexwalker myself! Athough I tend to like them more as very good buddies, the covering-for-you-dynamic it's so funny for them, lol It's also angsty and complicated because, y'know, the power-imbalance and unchecked trauma? Is funny that the clone that's actually a slave for the republic is the most normal if you bring him into the anidala romance circus.

Also shout out to @phoenixyfriend , she has a lot of rexanidala fics and recs for anyone interested reading this!

[cravingpepsimax]

honestly, posts like these really remind me that so many people just. don't see shipping as a vehicle for character exploration. in the slightest.

like, i'm not saying that you have to ship 100% canon-compliant stuff. that's not what i mean. i LOVE crackships, and it's precisely BECAUSE i see shipping as an exercise in character exploration! it's interesting to think about what the dynamic between 2 characters that never interacted could be like, including in a romantic context. (i recently found some art on deviantart of ford and robbie -- some of it was shipping, but there was one person in particular that drew a bunch of art of ford being like. robbie's father figure? that's fucking peak. why have i failed to consider the opportunities of platonic crackshipping, that's dope as fuck. anyways i am now a platonic and romantic robford(?) stan)

but. when people say "there are so many characters you could ship x with that aren't y," it reminds me that so many people just. don't think of shipping in these terms at all. and there isn't anything wrong with that, per se -- shipping can be used as a form of analysis, but it doesn't have to be. it's not that serious. but what i find interesting about shipping is so ingrained into me that i entirely forget that these people are Real and Out There and, just like how the idea of shippers like these is baffling to me, shippers like me are probably baffling to them!

it's like. imagine if you're super into food, like, the intricacies of how tastes work and combine with each other, the kind of person that says "wow, i'm tasting some strong gooseberry undertones" while drinking white wine. and then you see someone who describes themself as a foodie and you're like "omg same!!" and then u find out that they're the type of person that eats this

like ok there's nothing wrong w that and you're not gonna say they're not a food enthusiast but like you were Not expecting that . and you think maybe there should be different words because this is such a massive gap in meaning it's not even funny

this posts makin me giggle

//start ss//

//end ss//

my honest to god response:

[necrophilemagpie]

as much as i love the idea of fan kids in media with immortals in it[and i do find peoples fankid ocs generally fun], i don't think Integra would do that even adopted even whatever, at least not intentionally.

I gotta be real, I don't think she'd want to do that to Alucard unless there Really isn't another choice. One would assume he is bound to the bloodline/inheritance line and another heir is kind of just... extending the capacity of this to hurt him for at least another generation.

Unless the powers that be threaten to do something bigger than him otherwise, Integra, who seems to have intentionally picked the under-equipped for the position and non-related Penwood jr to get the organization after her death, her plan here is pretty clear. She wouldn't have a 'real' heir if she can help it because she wants Alucard free of the bond after her, she wants to be the last person with the capacity to take away his autonomy like that.

none of the characters in this show are good people exactly, but I do think she feels a kind of remorse for both her family's past likely uncountable abuse towards him, and personally for perhaps overstepping a boundary or two. because that just Will Happen if you have that kind of 100% control over someone.

Legit, that's why you rarely hear her specify something as an 'order' even when he obviously acts out, only in real key moments/after their back and forth they do for that. I genuinely do not think she likes to use the full extent of the power she has over him, just more so fill that role in his life so he feels... comfortable for a lack of a better word? There is fun powerful and there is 'this is something my father would do to you' and i reckon hard orders are a lot more of the latter

i don't think she'd trust an heir or a potential heir's heir to tell the difference.

partially because i don't know how much she trusts herself to.

[findafight]

So many shippers want to take stobin away from each other by either undermining their big friendship moments, especially the bathroom scene by either making Steve talk about someone else when he's describing how amazing Robin is or (as I've unfortunately seen) have Robin lie about liking Tammy (to cover her crush on Nancy) which makes the entire scene ingenuine and the basis of their solid friendship a falsehood, or by giving their dynamic to other characters like making Robin and Eddie best friends before scoops (when they probably didn't even know each other beyond going to the same school). Just. Why. Why must you separate them? Why do you feel the need to remove their big emotional moments of love and trust and give it to different characters?

[theshadowrealmitself]

That other post was leaning towards more of a pairing post, but in a more platonic thought:

DP au where Sam and Tucker don’t know Danny is Phantom and instead think that Phantom has been actively harming their friend in some way

(Danny not having too strong of a reaction to other ghosts but hating talking about Phantom, always tries to keep his friends away from chasing down Phantom, despite hating about talking Phantom it’s obvious that he still pays really close attention whenever someone brings up Phantom, other signs that make them nervous)

And they’re just like “fuck. we gotta go fight a ghost now.” because what else would be your reaction if you found out a ghost was bullying your friend

[kakusu-shipping]

Question, just... in general.

Why do so many F/O Imagine Blogs with Proship DNI tag their clearly romantic imagines with "Familial F/O"? Do they mean this in an incest way or not?

[aroaessidhe]

2024 reads / storygraph

Bang Bang Bodhisattva

mystery set in a near-future cyberpunk future

follows a trans hacker who does random gigs to get by, but is on the verge of losing her apartment

and an ex-cop PI who takes her along on jobs sometimes - and when they’re investigating his missing ex-best friend they find him murdered instead

along with her new crush mysteriously disappearing - she’s dragged in the middle of a mystery with few leads

trans polyamorous MC, ace MC

[hadesknockedupintheunderworld]

What world do I live in that the entire n1njago fandom has decided that two people of the opposite gender who found each other in the world's turmoil and lived together in a home of their own making as best friends for years are found family and therefore sibling coded

They are main characters how aren't there a bunch of dudebros going to bat for it just because it's straight or whatever

[orchideae]

In today's episode of 'Sae, do you (...)': the topic of Ningguang and Yelan, and I thought that I should note my opinion more clearly outside of my rules as it's very important information for my portrayal: I do not ship Ningguang and Yelan romantically.

Honestly, while this is of course my own opinion, I don't find that there's anything to really substantiate a romantic interest between the two. For starters, I don't think that Ning, as interesting of a character as she is with a past that might just be similar in its 'rise' to Yelan's (we're left with very little information on the latter's childhood), ticks the right kind of boxes for her, though to be fair: not many do. Yelan craves a specific sort of thrill in her life, I mean she lives it at the roll of a dice because she is, on some level, bored, and craves the unexpected, the unusual, the 'surprise', and Ningguang's life nor personality seem to play into that. Beyond it, Yelan would need a kinship within this very specific 'loneliness' that I talk about too often and I think that Ning is not one who quite meshes into that in the right way.

Second, despite their long-standing history that even predates their mutual involvement with the Qixing, there seems to be a certain professional distance between the two that I'm quite fond of that is shown in brief event cutscenes, and also Yelan's vision story, that I find inherently intriguing. Perhaps this distance plays more into Yelan's character of not investing too heavily, or rather not too easily, into social dynamics than it does Ning's (I'm not one to weigh in on her character), but it seems evident to me that there's also that semblance of professionalism that creates a line that takes away the possibility of growing closer on an emotional level. And whether that's a mutual decision or not is not up to me to judge, but I think it's one that's made rather clearly from Yelan's side. On top of that, Yelan is Yelan and it's my personal belief that shipping her is rather difficult.

Now I'm also inherently of the opinion (unpopular, I know, I apologize) that dynamics aren't always more interesting when written in romantic settings, and I don't think it's a benefit for all of them to veer into a romantic nature. And in my opinion (and most importantly: in my depiction and understanding of Yelan's character), I think that having Ning and Yelan cross the line from professionalism into something inherently more rooted in romanticism, would be a detriment to their dynamic. Because honestly, I think the fact that Ningguang being one of two people (other being Uncle Tian) to know Yelan best, without ever crossing that line, is too good. I would simply, well, just prefer to keep that not only platonic, but professional, but of course not excluding it of Yelan's quips, and the occasional 'confidant' element.

/rambles in tags because I feel like I have more to say that I shouldn't flood the post with.

[shirogane-oushirou]

working on my pinned and looking at my f/o tags, fighting between "combining my winter crew, tsukiko, and tsubasa tags into just the winter crew tag -- like how brave vesperia is all in one tag -- would be SO much more convenient" and "i like tsukiko's and tsubasa's tag names, and i want people to listen to their associated songs" :'(((

[allyriadayne]

What are your thoughts on various Jace ships?

oh boy you've opened a can of worms. i've already talked a bit about my favorite romantic jace ships here (jace x aegon, jace x baela and jace x baela x alyn), and in another i talked about my thoughts on jace x sara in general.

okay so i'll just name the jace ships i've seen in the fandom and talk a bit about them.

jace x aemond - i don't ship it mostly because i have a one sided beef with aemond and because jace and aemond have been participating since childhood in a competition where the prize is aegon's stinky ass. and i'm a jacegon lover at heart so i know jace won that one. i can see why people ship it though, the enemies to lovers thing and i can admit their scene at laena's funeral was really sweet. the thing is, i can't help but see their personalities clashing in the worst way. uptight x uptight is not that attractive to me.

jace x daemon - this works for me in the sense that jace is locked in this haunted hill house and daemon is his personal torturer who cackles every time jace tries to be reasonable and ask for a glass of water. it's not that he can't stand the torture, he can, he's a good little boy, but why does daemon have to laugh at him and tell him he fucked his mom in this very same room. makes no sense and it's not like jace cares it's happening outside of his very tight schedule of micromanaging his own family [daemon adds another punishment to the list]

jace x helaena - sweet! second favorite hetero jace ship. outside of the blah blah politics nitpicking i see people doing i think they could be a very good match. i only read fic about them in the canon context because i'm a very alt universe ramifications girl. i think while jace would find helaena strange at first, if they found themselves in a situation where they have to rely or be a companion to the other, i think he would have made an effort to understand, if not, support helaena; and i think she would like someone as stable and reliable as jace too. plus, i really liked their dance, what could've been type of scene the same way rhaenyra and harwin's was.

jace x cregan - this ship to me is jace's last summer before last year of college. the last hurrah and the summer he will think about when he's deep in his boring office job balancing taxes or whatever yuppies did in the 80s. cregan and winterfell are so far from dragonstone and his family and obligations that it would lead to a wild weekend where he is not jacaerys, prince of dragonstone but just jace. but only for a little bit and it will never happen again. i don't vibe with most of the jacegan interpretations i've seen because i'm not a bottom!jace supporter though and most of them rely on this.

jace x luke - the only jace ship i truly hate. i become a prude gen z incest hater whenever i see this ship. i just don't see it. to me, jace has been babying luke too much to really work, which, okay, it might work from luke's perspective but not from jace's. i don't see my boy being entirely happy in a relationship where he still has to hide himself and Perform perfect prince perfect brother perfect son.

jace x rhaenyra - i don't see it but i also not not see it? i'm all about jace wanting to be the Father of the family micromanaging everything but i don't think he realistically reaches into being rhaenyra's husband. i think he has too much issues with his father figures (and with rhaenyra! but will never admit it) to really want to become one himself alongside his mother. he does think she's perfect and beautiful so i'm not closing the doors on this one just yet.

these are the ones i've seen a lot but if you have another i might have forgotten, shoot them my way! thanks for the question.