#when woman treats man like men treat women

[autolenaphilia]

I’ve talked in a post years before about how male/female socialization is a myth, especially if you argue transfems are “male socialized.” But I’ve read and learned since then, so let’s have another go at it.

Of course what I must recognize is that claims that transfems are male socialized are not good faith arguments, it’s a transmisogynistic canard wielded as a cudgel against transfems. What it is is an accusation that transfems are lacking in the feminine virtues, it’s the old accusation that queer women are too mannish to be proper women. Most often “male socialization” is a claim that we are not demure and submissive enough. It’s a club that taken out whenever we dare disagree with our betters, tme people, or dare assert ourselves in any way. It’s then said that we are “talking over people”, “taking up too much space” or even have “male energy.” This is ubiquitous even in supposedly transfem-inclusive spaces. Even cis women are often falsely perceived as talking too much, due to misogynistic biases, and transmisogynistic biases make this effect even worse for transfems.

But let’s humor the argument for awhile, because I’ve seen transfems internalize the transmisogyny of “male socialization.” And socialization is a real sociological concept, which can be use to lend respectability to the claim that transfems are male socialized.

However actually looking at how socialization is defined reveals the problem with the “male socialization” myth.

Socialization as concept is not simply something that is done to the individual, but actually refers to how the individual internalizes the norms and ideology of the society in which they are raised, “the process beginning during childhood by which individuals acquire the values, habits, and attitudes of a society” as merriam-webster helpfully describes it.

This means the individual’s response to society’s norms defines socialization. It’s not just how people treat you, how you are raised, it’s how you react to how they treat you. And this is equally true if we are to speak of gendered socialization, where a person’s internal gender identity and preferred gender expression, not just their assigned sex by their environnment, defines that person’s gendered socialization.

And it’s obvious that any attempt to “male socialize” transfems failed. If “male socialization” has any meaning it must include that it results in the male individual adopting a male identity. And for transfems, the results speak for themselves. A transfem saying “I was not male socialized, because I’m a woman and not a man” is in itself a valid argument.

The fact that transfems prior to transition can for a long time believe themselves to be male doesn’t mean they were “male socialized” either. Because again, the individual’s own response, both in thought and behaviour to how others treat and teach them is part of socialization. It’s not just the end result that is different from cis men, it’s how we get there too. That’s why some transfems speak of “transfem socialization” because even when we are treated like boys, we have different responses to that than boys and men do, and that is it’s own form of socialization.

The thing is, transfems tend to experience their assigned sex and the masculinity socially expected by them long before their trans realization, as deeply unpleasant. It’s gender dysphoria, but we are not given the words to articulate those feelings. We don’t know that gender dysphoria exists, that transition are an option, or even that trans people exist, except possibly as deluded and perverted men in dresses. So these feelings are instead repressed. This results in dissociation from emotions that are distressing and difficult to understand.

It can often be difficult for us to act according to the norms of masculinity and we are often abused by parents, schools and other children for our femininity.

Now of course there are many boys and men, who are effeminate and gender non-conforming, and are often uncomfortable with the masculinity they are expected to perform. But that just further proves the point that to speak of a monolithic “male socialization” is wrong, because even boys and men vary widely in their responses.

And a central problem with neatly divided male/female socialization, is that while expectations are different depending on assigned sex, we aren’t given separate messages about gender. Basically all children in the same culture are taught the same things about masculinity and femininity, and the misogyny that comes with it. Children who are supposed to be boys are taught what girls are like, and supposed girls are taught what boys are like (and the message is, broadly speaking, girls are inferior to boys).

Trans girls can therefore often internalize the message about femininity, what girls are like, and apply it to themselves, even long before we view ourselves as women. Long before we realize we are trans, that transition is an option, we often feel a painful longing for womanhood, and femininity, tinged with unrecognized dysphoria. The unrealistic beauty standards imposed on women can be especially devastating for trans girls who have internalized transmisogyny. We hold our own bodies to standards that are cisnormative and which are so unrealistic that even cis women can rarely reach them, and it’s used as a tool of repression and self-harm, to tell ourselves why we never could be women. Eating disorders are common among trans women even before transition.

This description of pre-transition transfem lives probably seems surprising to people who never listened to transfems describe their own lives, and this includes other kinds of queer people.

The double standard of how transfems pre-transition lives are described and how basically every other queer group’s closeted lives are described is stark. Like it’s now widely recognized that cis gay people who were closeted and didn’t believe themselves to be gay were suffering in that closet from the self-denial that belief involved. Claims that cis gay people were “heterosexually socialized” and that they enjoyed heterosexual privilege by self-denying in the closet are never made because they are obviously absurd and offensive. But not so for trans women’s own experience of repression and the closet. This is of course rooted in transmisogyny. As Julia Serano pointed out, “AMAB trans people are denied the closet”

[unavailableapple]

Like…DOES patriarchy hurt men though? There certain ways that it does but I feel like a lot of people insist it hurts men MORE. And uh…does it though?

-They have to be the breadwinner. Except they don’t…most households in the United States are two-income. It’s very difficult to have a one-income household in the modern climate of the economy. And women who still work as much as their husbands also have to come home and cook, clean, care for children, do laundry, etc.

-They aren’t allowed to dress fun. Except they are? Harry Styles gets on the cover of magazines for wearing an ugly dress. Movies like Wicked repeatedly show men in skirts. Social media is full of men wearing makeup and cute outfits and heels. I feel it’s become pretty normalized now for men to dress how they like. It’s just also normalized for them to dress comfortably, whereas I get a ridiculous amount of pushback for wearing pants, no makeup, not shaving my legs, and having short hair.

-They aren’t allowed to show emotions. Except they are? How many times has a video gone viral of a man crying because he loves his kids. All television, movies, books, etc are ever about is men’s feelings. Philosophy pretty much boils down to “men are sad”. The male loneliness epidemic is all I ever hear about…

-Men aren’t allowed to be gay. Neither are women???? I keep seeing this idea that women have an easier time being gay because they’re fetishized so much, whereas gay men are just treated as gross and weird. Sorry but like…no. Being treated like a porn search is not acceptance.

When men do experience hatred for being gay, wearing pink, or crying it’s literally because those things are womanly. Having sex with men is associated with women (that’s why “it’s not gay if you top”), pink is the “girl” color, crying is “feminine” aka WEAK. It all just reinforces the same thing: ‘woman’ is the worst thing to be.

But men are the victims here?

[backupaccountt22]

You men are truly demonic creatures!

“Anyway women invented misogyny in order to control and keep in line women so they couldn't threaten their own power, that being matriarchs of their home, husbands, and families.”

bahahhahahahahah under misogynistic ruling no woman has power. What power does a woman under Taliban gain then ? the evilness of men has no bound ! Not only do they commit worse acts onto women, they do mental gymnastics and use most illogical reasoning to blame women for it. Under misogyny matriarch doesn’t exist.

“They looked at men and their sexual dimorphism, and came to the conclusion that in order to rule, they didn't need to rule mines, fields, slaves, kingdoms, and armies. They didn't need to. They only needed to rule the men who ruled these things.” Men projecting their mindset and desires onto women. Men truly acting as if women desire being treated as second class, as personal slaves for men. I am sure you think the wives of the Taliban rules are benefiting and the true mastermind behind the group too. Anything is possible for you demonic creatures. Men prevent women from having basic rights let alone any power. Look at how raging men get whenever women gain power. It is women that support other women to gain education and power! Notice how safest place for women is with other women. Notice how women on women violence is lowest compared to men on men or men on women violence! Men are violent demons, they are self destructive and destructive to others. They bring chaos , wickedness and war to the world. Men hate peace, peace confuses them.

”

So women created misogyny and demanded as they do all things that men bring this into the world, so just as they conquer men who threaten their women and all she holds, he will conquer women, so that none can rival the power she holds.

She demands women dress plainly and cover themselves in shame. She demands women do not go out with men. That women can not be won by love but by the social bonds. This is the power of the haves after all.”

women are not the ones that stole basic rights from other women. It is men that demand women be covered from head to toe! It is men that shame, dehumanize, rape and abuse women into submission! It is men that created the rules that women can not leave the house without male family members! It is men that chained women to their homes. It is men that honor kill women after raping them. Men are incapable of love! Men love to drag women though hell in the name of love. Men love to pin women against eachother! Notice how men shame older women that try to warn younger women of how danger and abusive these men are! Men like you love to create division between women bc that is how y’all are able to gain control of women. By making women focus on eachother, y’all are able to get away with abusing and committing most evil acts into women.

”What do men hope to gain from power over women? Nothing they couldn't take. Nothing they couldn't hold, nothing that if refused could be stripped from them if men are the monsters you depict them as. Worse still if they aren't,”

men gain personal slave that cooks, cleans and act like sex toy. Notice how when men describe what they want in wife, it sounds exactly like slave. Men do take and strip from women. You act as if we don’t see it in the Middle East. What do the men in afghan gain from doing that to women and girls ? Yet they do it will no remorse.

“what would a good man seek from an unwilling partner who may kill him as he sleeps?””

if that was the case, no woman would be raped, no woman would be forced into marriage. Of course you gonna deny women being forced married and act as if these women actually enjoy being treated like objects. I am sure you think women desire being raped and it is actually other women that benefit from women being raped. Bc that is how you then truly think. Men will rape child and blame the child for asking for it. men in the past and present are the enemy of women and girls. The only good man is dead one. Every time a man dies, that is one less Pedo and rapists we deal with.

“Thus traditionalism gender oppression can only make sense if women created, maintained, and sustained misogyny as a means of maintaining their own power.”

it only makes sense when you point fingers and blame women for being oppressed. Thanks for reminding me why I hate men. Thanks for giving me insight how fucked up the male mindset is. the only reason why I work at underpaid mental health clinic is to see men finally get their karma. Every time a man with no hope comes to our clinic, it warms my heart to see him finally suffer as he had caused many women in his life to suffer. I will work hard to make sure the men around me suffer. Thank you.

May men self deleting rates skyrocket ! May you men truly suffer and experience the worse in life. May you burn in hell.

why do women always have to be the bigger person? why don’t men just stop “joking” abt raping us?

[reignof-fyre]

"Rhaenyra was Maegor with Teats!"

"Daemon would be Maegor come again!"

Maegor's crimes:

Usurped the throne from the lawful, rightful heir

Murdered said rightful heir, committing Kinslaying

Rape, more than once

Killed every man, woman and child of House Harroway due to a rumor that his wife, Alys Harroway, had an affair

Ordered his nephew Viserys tortured, from which injuries he died

Put all the workers of the Red Keep's construction to death to keep the secret tunnels well, secret

Butchered 2,000 poor fellows who were, in actual fact, smallfolk at the wrong place at the wrong time

Raped an innkeeper's daughter

Murdered Lord Hayford, and many others

Ordered Rhaella, daughter of Aegon the Uncrowned and Rhaena the Black Bride, to be butchered

Rhaenyra's crimes

Being a woman in a man's world

Having the audacity to want to be heir and the power that comes with it

Allegedly sired bastards though there's no actual proof

Daemon's crimes

Despised the wife he was forced to marry at sixteen years old, who despised him just as much

Spent time with the smallfolk and drank and whored with them, treated them like people

Carried out lawful punishments as Lord Commander of the City Watch

Took a dragon egg without permission, which he returned when Viserys demanded it returned

Blood and Cheese

Aegon the Usurper's crimes

Usurped the lawful heir of the previous monarch

Demanded said heir and her whole family be killed when Rhaenyra wouldn't roll over and accept his "kind" terms

Slept with young girls, children really

Fondled any and every serving girl within reach, likely against their will

Bid in an auction for a young girl's maidenhead and won, siring children on her

Often found in Flea Bottom rat pits with young girls pleasuring him

Often watched "feral, starving children" fight one another for amusement

Threw a feast celebrating Prince Lucerys' cold blooded murder

Ordered every single ratcatcher in the city hanged, even those proven innocent

Allowed Cole to murder the Black supporters in the black cells, angering a great many lords of the realm

Murdered his own sister, committing Kinslaying

Murdered Maester Gerardys for no reason other than he "mistrusted" him

Aemond's crimes:

Used underhanded tactics to claim a dragon he knew his father would disapproved him trying to claim

Threatened the heirs heir and heir to driftmark with death

Committed treason by calling Jace and Luke bastards

Murdered Lucerys in cold blood, especially after he declared that "losing an eye was a fair trade for a dragon"

Is the reason the dance turned from a war of ravens to full on, bloody civil war

Butchered all of House Strong, men, women and children included

He took Alys Rivers as his spoils of war

Indiscriminately burned the Riverlands, murdering thousands of innocents

Daeron's crimes

Burned and entire town to the ground with his dragon, killing hundreds of innocent refugees

Ordered Hugh Hammer and Ulf the White murdered because they insulted him

Helaena's crimes

Supported her husband's usurpation of the throne, and being crowned queen herself

Not much else, but even if she declared herself neutral in the face of all of this, neutrality in the face of oppression means you side with the oppressor so...

[xiofaire]

When someone asks me why I want to permashift I typically say because I want to be with my comfort characters.

But on a deeper level I’d say I want to permashift because of how disgusting this world is towards women. Once I started realizing that literally every man I know has said something misogynistic I realized ya’ll were being for real when saying “most men”. I feel as there is no hope for women here, at least not with the way men are stirring today. Misogyny is so deeply woven through society that I even struggle imagining how life would be without it. I sometimes wish I could go back to being oblivious to this bigotry, I also think this is why a lot of women push back on feminism because it really brings an awareness to one’s self that life isn’t going to treat you the same. The sexualization in particular is something that really upsets me. The way movies and shows always have female nudity, the way women are posed in ads or magazines. It’s like we cannot be just human. The way everyone manages to point their finger to a woman every single time something happens, including women. Misogyny is so bad in our culture that even women are against women. Men’s needs will always be put over women’s needs whether its standards or medically. This is a topic that plagues my mind everyday and gets me incredibly upset, so much so that it’s my biggest motivation to permashift.

[velvetvexations]

The whole "clinging to AGAB" thing makes me want to explode. I consider myself male! I don't identify at all with being AFAB! Being referred to as female makes me want to tear my skin off!!!! However the fact I *look* female (large boobs, don't bind, very curvy, long hair, etc) does affect how people treat me and has for as long as I can remember!!! I need to be able to talk about that fact!!!!! And I actually have very little in common with the experiences of 95% people AFAB so I think the concept of female socialization is bullshit too!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I won't deny there are some transmascs that are weird about AGAB and stuff but I think blanket accusing all trans men of clinging to their AGAB is honestly kinda despicable

All else equal, as they like to say, trans women and trans men are equally oppressed, but since trans men would be oppressed regardless of if they're trans or not that can often be relevant when discussing their oppression.

For instance, a trans man can say he's familiar with misogyny, and then get told to his face that that's impossible because he's a man, and if he tries to explain "no really I was constantly shamed for speaking up and I wasn't allowed to do any of the cool stuff my brothers did and my parents beat me if I mentioned wanting to cut my hair or wear pants" they go "waow I can't believe you're clinging to your AGAB to say you're more of a woman than me you TERF cuntwhorebitchfuck."

[raven-at-the-writing-desk]

Since you mentioned this in an earlier ask, what is your take on feminist Leona? I see people saying things like "consent king" "he drinks his respect women juice" and "leona kingscholar says men ain't shit" but I think those are mainly jokes but I've also seen a lot of for example Leona x reader fanfics where he's a lot nicer to femme Yuus than masc ones. I don't play the game so I don't know how much of a feminist he really is, could you clarify and give your own insights? Ty Miss Raven!!!!!!!

[Referencing this post!]

Admittedly, I am guilty of having made “consent king” jokes but that’s mainly because I think consent + respecting others’ autonomy is very sexy important and it’s slightly funny to have a 185 cm muscular anime cat boy championing the concept. However, I try to avoid making jokes which would imply Leona puts down his own gender or thinks lesser of them because 1) canon doesn't indicate this and 2) it can be hurtful to non-femme Twst fans. Yes, most of the fandom is women--but that doesn't mean we shouldn't make this fandom space welcoming for masculine or nonbinary Twst fans.

Let's delve into a brief history of where feminist!Leona comes from! After that, I'll discuss my own thoughts and feelings about it.

The idea first came into prominence because of an exchange that occurs in Cater's School Uniform vignette. In it, Cater is trying to convince Leona to join him for a party that he's throwing for Rosaria, one of the talking paintings at NRC. At first, Leona refuses--but he quickly changes his tune once Cater mentions Rosaria is a "she/her". Leona states, "Portrait or not, I respect ladies and Rosaria is a lady." Cater then whispers to Kalim (who is shocked that Leona suddenly agreed to come along), "Leona's kingdom is all about being respectful to ladies."

It should be noted that Leona says something slightly different in JP: “Even if it’s a portrait, a woman is a woman.” JP does not have the “I respect ladies” portion; “I respect ladies” was added to EN, which may have further amplified the interpretation that he is a feminist.

Now, as we learn from that vignette, the Sunset Savanna has a culture of "respecting women". In Leona's Ceremonial Robes vignette, he elaborates that, “[Beastwomen are] already way stronger than [beastmen]." Furthermore, Ruggie states in one of his Chats that “Girls have both the grit and the camaraderie to triumph when the goin’ gets tough.” Then, in events like Tamashina Mina and late in book 7, we are told that many of the royal guards are women who volunteer for the positions and it's common for them to have learned martial arts from a young age. From this dialogue, we can glean that the women of Leona's home country are physically strong, strong-willed, and honorable.

With that being said, I think certain interpretations of Leona's "feminism" (a term not actually used by official materials; this is a fandom take) definitely take it a step too far by either assuming Leona treats woman as a special class and/or he dislikes men. Both of those interpretations (if serious and not said as a joke) are owed to a fundamental misunderstanding of what "feminism" is. Feminism is "the belief in full social, economic, and political equality for women." Feminism is NOT misandry (a hatred of men), and nor is it female chauvinism (the belief that women are superior to men)... unless, of course, you're talking about very radicalized forms of thinking. The basic concept of feminism doesn't involve man hate or putting women on a pedestal.

Leona, whom we know to be arrogant and unwilling to obey others' orders, appears to be more willing to listen to and carry out tasks if there's a woman involved. I already mentioned the case with Rosaria the painting (which proves that his "respecting women" thing extends beyond just beastwomen from his home country). In his Ceremonial Robes, he also grumpily puts on the aforementioned robes and takes a picture of himself in it upon the request of his sister-in-law. But--and this should be stressed--he's not exactly jumping for joy or eager to do so. Instead, Leona cites that "Goin’ against [beastwomen] only brings more trouble.” This indicates annoyance at having to carry out this chore, and gives the impression that Leona's only complying because not doing so would only overcomplicate things for him. He's not an idiot--he knows when to make a strategic retreat if it's going to save him time and effort in the long run. (For example, he immediately surrenders to the Ferrymen in book 6 rather than continue to put up a fight.)

I should note that, like in the earlier definition of feminism I shared, Leona does not simply bend the knee to every single woman. In the first Halloween event, he was still capable of scaring off the Magicam Monsters (some of which have distinctly female voices) without any qualms. He was still fully able to express anger and upset when Eliza, the Ghost Bride, smacked him. "You've got a lot of nerve turnin' me down over some nonsense!" He's also not above tricking the Fairy Queen and her entourage to steal back the special magestone from NRC.

This shows us that Leona doesn't just... "respect women" indiscriminately. If someone is going to be rude and selfish to him, he's going to respond as is appropriate. He's not going to turn a blind eye because of the offending party's gender.

In terms of Yuu interactions (assuming Yuu can be any gender), Leona acts pretty aggressive towards them in their first meeting. Even though it's clearly an accident and Yuu didn't realize they stepped on his tail, Leona is annoyed by the act and them walking away without apologizing or stopping to acknowledge him. He also makes it known that Yuu is magicless, and thus has no way of defending themselves from him. And you know what this man does? He says, "Well, can't say it'd be much fun to hurt someone so helpless. Still gonna do it, though." AND HE THREATENS TO TAKE A TOOTH. His wording, "No one gets to stomp on my tail and just walk away without payin' the price" + him still deciding to attack Yuu desite knowing they are weak/cannot fight back, implies to me that he may have still reacted this way regardless of Yuu's gender. (Key word: MAY. We don't know if this is the truth or not, I am leaving this up to your interpretation.)

Notably, there is a light change between EN and JP versions for Yuu's dialogue choices in response to Leona's threat. The EN dialogue options are far more humorous, but the JP options clearly convey fear (ie Leona is being serious about his threat of bodily harm). The top option is like noises of surprise, like "Eh, eh, eh!!"; the bottom option is along the lines of, "What, I'm going to be hit/beaten!"

There are, in fact, multiple instances where Leona acts callous towards Yuu. He refuses to let Yuu stay in Savanaclaw unless they earn their keep by beating up some mobs. He constantly degrades them by calling them and others he considers weak "herbivore". He has to be goaded into helping us or taking us along on trips instead of automatically caving. It could be argued that he would be more agreeable or polite if fem!Yuu was in these scenarios. And who knows, that might be the case--but again, I don't think he would be egregiously kind. I would like to point out a more direct example of a Leona-fem!Yuu interaction. Leona has interacted with a female Yuu before: Yuuka Hirasaka, our main character for the Episode of Savanaclaw manga. There's some debate over whether or not the NRC students know that Yuuka is a girl since the topic is never mentioned once, but I assume that they are aware because: 1) Yuuka makes no effort to hide her figure or chest; she even wears her blazer open, and 2) she has no motivation to hide her gender; she is capable of defending herself if needed and has a nonchalant personality. Proceeding with the assumption that Yuuka being a girl is a known fact, Leona does not treat her any differently than any other student.

Yuuka seems to experience the same tail-stepping scene as is depicted in game, although we don't see the aftermath of it/if Leona gives her the same threat.

The more telling scene for Yuuka, however, comes when she and her friends arrive in Savanaclaw to investigate. They are confronted by a bunch of mobs that start to pick a fight with them. Like in the game, Leona intervenes (ie he doesn't stop the fight just because Yuuka is a woman) and has them duke it out in a game of spelldrive/magift instead.

And you know what? Leona doesn't hold back just because he's playing against a woman. In fact, he kicks Yuuka's ass and then some. Then he stands over her and tells her to get back up, to keep playing. Leona isn't cutting Yuuka any slack whatsoever. He treats Yuuka the same as the boys she's playing with.

This brings me to my final prominent example of Leona interacting with a woman, which I think best exemplifies what my interpretation of Leona's "feminism" is. In the JP server's 2024 Halloween event Lost in the Book with Nightmare Before Christmas, Sally indicates that she plans on making a meal using the plants from around the cemetery. Leona is at first displeased by this, but then agrees to help her catch snakes, rats, lizards, etc. as meat for the meal. This leads into a conversation about how sad Sally's home life is, which earns her sympathy from the other NRC students. Jade, Riddle, and Epel are shocked at the cruelty that Sally faces. Jade volunteers to take the doctor out for Sally, and Epel even tries to convince Leona to help him rough up Dr. Finkelstein. But Leona just smirks and tells them Sally's not in any need of their "help"; isn't she the one who slipped the doctor a "drink"? Riddle scolds him for this "ungentlemanly" behavior and Epel refuses to believe that the "kind Sally" would do something like use poison. Leona was able to smell the deadly nightshade on her and deduce that Sally slipped some to her guardian and then slipped out on her own. She's not a damsel in distress--she's resourceful. Sally used her brains and not brute force to rescue herself from a bad situation. (We know that this would deeply resonate with Leona because he has been struggling his entire life to have his own merits recognized.) Leona praises Sally for her cunning and goes so far as to offer her his arm and tell her that he's looking forward to this evening's dinner.

In this situation, could it not be said that Jade, Riddle, and Epel were the ones assuming Sally is weak that Leona was the one who saw her true worth? I'm of course not accusing anyone here of being sexist. Society socializes us to see women as the "fairer sex" in need of protection and aid--but isn't Leona being more equitable by not underestimating Sally because of her gender?

That brings me to my conclusion. Leona respects women, no doubt about that. However, that's NOT a blanket statement. He clearly knows how to separate who is worthy of his respect and who isn't, and then he acts accordingly. Yes, he is polite, slightly softer, and more willing to listen to women he knows (his sister-in-law), women who haven't offended him/are just existing (Rosaria), and woman who have demonstrated their own strengths to him (Sally). He doesn’t become a completely different character just to bend to the whims of women. Those who have acted in ways to earn his ire, woman or not, will be treated as such (Magicam Monsters, Eliza, even Yuu when they/she enters his territory and/or steps on his tail). At the same time, I don't believe he thinks that women are delicate flowers that need special treatment (as we see with how he handles Sally + the Yuus and, more specifically, Yuuka). If anything, the women from his home country have demonstrated that they can be strong and self-sufficient. Why would he feel the need to go out of his way to be extremely lenient with the women he is around?

Lastly, nothing in official materials implies Leona treats men significantly worse than women. If he seems exceedingly rude to men, it’s most likely the result of the main cast (the characters Leona most often interacts with) being guys. If we were to compare how he treats his peers and how he treats women who have irritated him, I would say the behavior isn’t that different.

I know that was a long post but 😅 Hopefully I was able to articulate my thoughts well enough… May you find it helpful in forming your own opinion, Anon!

[gokyrts]

your carlos fic was amazing... can you do a mafia au carlos?

hiii nonnie! thanks for putting in a request<3 there were many thoughts about mafia Carlos, so here’s my take on this AU 🤭 this contains both SFW and NSFW thoughts, the latter will be under the cut!!

wc: 1.2k

SFW

—Mafia boss!Carlos would be a tantalizing mix of calculated behavior deluded with kindness:

Being under the wing of a local mob had its perks even with the risks that came from inside the organization. A risk you realized you took accidentally when you walked in on a family meeting, the boss himself sitting at the head of the table. The voices died down, everyone was staring and you gulped. A shiver ran down your spine when Carlos stood up, silently walking around the table to you.

“W-What’s going on?” You squeaked out, but that was the wrong kind of question to ask.

“I cannot tell you, preciosa…” Carlos’ voice wrapped around you like the first gust of wind in late autumn — chilling amidst the warmth.

“If I tell you, I’d have to kill you… and I don’t want to do that.” And you saw the cold honesty in his eyes which, despite their depth, seemed hollow and loveless. Yet it juxtaposed the warmth of his voice in your ear, the sweetness of the petname he used for you…

You nodded meekly, understanding your place and feeling a strange sense of gratitude that he took mercy on you, despite your intrusion. Carlos tilted his head at your reaction, a hint of a smile on his lips. He brought his hand up to your cheek, caressing the soft skin with the back of his fingers.

“Good girl… now, back to your duties.” He ordered you like he would a servant and yet you found yourself happily obliging, scattering from where he held a meeting with the family.

His smile fell when you rounded the corner and he turned around to go back into the room you so unfortunately stumbled into.

—Mafia boss!Carlos would not tolerate his men disrespecting you:

No matter which position you held in the family, you were always respected… only on occasion, someone dared to do the opposite. A new young man joined the family not long ago, he noticed you around the estate and nearby bar the family owned. He made the unfortunate mistake of assuming you were a local escort. Before he was able to further dig his own grave, he caught a hand upside his head.

“Oi! Cabrón, this isn’t some whore you can chat up!” One of the capos scolded, trying to save the new guy’s ass before the boss would notice but Carlos was watching the entire exchange. He clicked his tongue, catching the attention of the rest of the men in the bar, and beckoned the new guy with his finger. He was already sweating and slowly approached the boss.

“Y-Yes, boss?”

“What is your name?” Carlos asked, his tone indifferent, yet the look in his eyes told everyone they were about to witness a lesson being taught. The young man in question told Carlos his name, to which Carlos repeated it, letting out a hum as if in thought before continuing.

“How would your mamá feel if she knew you were treating women this way?” The distaste for others seeing you as less than you were was clear in Carlos’ tone and you watched with interest as the guy stammered.

“S-She wouldn’t be happy, boss…”

Carlos nodded in acknowledgment before leaning forward.

“She would give you a worse beating than I ever would so I suggest you apologize to the señorita before I get your mother on the phone.”

In mere moments you had the new guy at your feet, apologising for his behavior and a promise he’d never dare assume who you were or any other woman for that matter. Carlos could only watch on with a smirk on his lips.

—Mafia boss!Carlos would make sure you have everything you need:

You want a new dress? Boom, it’s laid out on your bed. You like a particular piece of jewelry? Boom, it’s sitting in a pretty box for you to take. Anything and everything you wanted, the boss provided. A shopping spree? There are three bodyguards with you, carrying your bags, holding the doors open, driving you around. You really got the princess treatment from their leader. When you returned, Carlos would of course have you model it for him since he bought all of it, in some cases, the dresses had to be returned because his hands were too eager trying to take them off of you and he ripped them. Worry not, he made up for it.

NSFW 18+ under the cut

—Mafia boss!Carlos would have you at his beck and call:

You would know when he snapped his fingers, when his gaze intensified, that was your call, your call to drop to your knees and serve your boss. He loved how perfectly you fit under the table in his office, how easy it was to thrust into your mouth, watching you take every inch of him. He especially loved the look in your eyes when one of his men came in and Carlos didn’t stop, he held you there, nose buried in his pubic hair as you gagged, till he let you come up for a breath.

“That’s it, preciosa… you like it, huh? I can see you rubbing those thighs together…”

Your cheeks only reddened at his words, making him grin. He stretched his leg, sliding it between your thighs.

“Come on, be a good girl for me… get yourself off on my boot.”

Of course, you’d be licking the mess you made off the expensive leather of his boot later when he allowed you to cum.

—Mafia boss!Carlos would do his occasional inspections:

You nearly yelped when you felt someone step up behind you but the warmth of Carlos’ big hands on your waist soon put you at ease.

“Shhh, it’s just me…” He cooed, humored by your startled behavior. His hands traveled lower, hoisting up your skirt. You bit your lip, thighs trembling in anticipation as you realised Carlos’ curiosity got the best of him again.

“Mmm, I like this pair on you,” He praised, his thumbs digging into your lower back slightly, forcing your forward, making your ass stick out as he appreciated the sight of you in a particular set of panties. You gasped when he smacked your right cheek, your reaction earning you a warm chuckle from the Spaniard.

“Beautiful…” Carlos continued, his fingers hooking in the waistband and pulling it down. You obediently stepped out of them, your skirt falling back in place. The piece of clothing looked tiny in Carlos’ big hand and you could see him smirk as he noticed the patch of wetness on them. But it wouldn’t be Carlos if he didn’t do something to make you yearn more for him. He pocketed the underwear and you could feel your heart racing.

“I—” He didn’t let you finish the thought, putting a finger against your lips.

“Shhh, you can come earn them back later, hmm, how does that sound, preciosa?”

Carlos didn’t wait for an answer, he knew you would come so he just left, with your soaked panties in his pocket, letting you walk around bare underneath your skirt the whole day.

want more thoughts on mafia boss Carlos or do you have your own? lemme know in my askbox!! <3

2024 @ gokyrts . do not distribute or translate my work on other sites.

[imadhatt3r]

There's a sort of small personal story arc happening in Koujaku's route that I haven't seen talked about much, and it is one relating to Aoba's struggles with his masculinity and his perception as a man by others.

This story arc heavily deals with cultural gender norms and expectations, and so I will be working with them; This doesn't reflect my personal view on gender roles and expectations in real life. This is also not for or against any headcanons regarding any character's gender- I have no opinions on them or problems with people seeing any character as trans.

Okay, without further ado:

The moment where Koujaku and Aoba canonically meet for the first time happens during their childhood. Aoba was bullied by other children for his long hair and for "looking like a girl". Koujaku stepped in to protect him, thinking that Aoba's a girl, and was allegedly suprised when Aoba turned out to be a boy, but his attitude towards Aoba never changed.

This event clearly had a big influence on Aoba, on how he views himself, Koujaku, and how he thinks Koujaku views him. When we first meet Koujaku in-game, he is seen defending himself from a woman's overly protective boyfriend and being a charmer to her in turn when she apologizes for his behavior. It's established that Koujaku has a lot of female admirers, and a bit later it's revealed that he attracts a lot of men too, but moreso as a kind of role model/aspirational figure- that's why benishigure exists in the first place.

Aoba is shown to be annoyed or downright kinda scared of Koujaku's fans; Of course, it makes sense- Aoba is shown to be a private person that dislikes attention, but I believe that there is a second layer to all that- jealousy.

Aoba identifies as a man in-game and asserts it multiple times. He is aware of his gender. Koujaku is shown to be both flirty and chivalrous towards women around him- spends time with them, initiates physical contact, compliments them etc. Aoba is always annoyed whenever he sees Koujaku doing that, but his reasons aren't fully clear- it seems like he feels like Koujaku's behavior is, in some way, fake, or that he just dislikes PDA in general. Aoba isn't jealous of the female attention Koujaku gets- he doesn't want to be in his place, because, as we established, he doesn't like being the center of attention. This isn't a dick measuring contest with Aoba being salty that he's coming up short.

Aoba is jealous of the women. He's the one who wants Koujaku to flirt with him, touch him, be chivalrous to him, protect him, but he believes that will never happen, because Koujaku only acts this way towards women. Men want to be him, women want to be with him, but Aoba is neither; He's not a man who wants to be him, nor is he a woman who wants to be with him- there's not a place he can comfortably occupy, in his mind.

Mind you, I don't believe that he is aware of his feelings- hence his clusterfuck of an attempt to make Koujaku's flirting with women a bad thing. It's not coherent, it doesn't really make any internal sense, because Aoba has no idea he's even trying to lead himself away from something.

In the good ending, Koujaku briefly mentions that he thinks Aoba sleeps in so much because he wants to get his attention, and I can 100% see it as being true- Aoba doesn't know how to get Koujaku to treat him like he does women around him, so he chooses more covert ways to get that desired attention and care.

I also see Aoba's haircut to be symbolic/meaningful of his relation to his masculinity being percieved by others. Aoba's hair was the reason why he and Koujaku met as kids and established their friendship and later relationship. When they were cut, Aoba started to look more conventionally "masculine", and yet the haircut is also, in a way, representative of the beginning of his and Koujaku's relationship. It's because Koujaku doesn't care that Aoba is a man- hell, in the CD drama, he even admits that he's straight up attracted to Aoba's masculinity. If Koujaku liked Aoba BECAUSE he saw him as female-like, wouldn't he want to keep his hair long/feminine?

This is kinda explored in various extra material like the summer side story and valentine's day story- Aoba seems to believe that while Koujaku is with him out of love/attraction, he's being treated more as a novelty, a "girl-boy" that's going to be replaced by an "actual woman" one day. He's afraid that the chocolates he made for Koujaku for valentine's day will be seen as "gross", and he expects to see a mountain of chocolate given to Koujaku by women when he comes to his apartment. In the summer story, he expects Koujaku to deny their relationship when they're being harassed by drunk benishigure, and that he will be left behind when Koujaku is approached by female admirers. This never happens- Koujaku actually reassures Aoba that he's never going anywhere, and that Aoba has nothing to worry about. This is framed as Aoba being simply jealous, but I think that there is enough evidence to imply that his gender has a lot to do with it. We don’t know how would he react if Koujaku was approached by a man, but it's mentioned multiple times that it's seeing and thinking of Koujaku being surrounded by women gets Aoba down especially hard.

I feel like it's also important to look into the bad ending for Koujaku's route too, because if you look at it through that lense, you can see some interesting stuff. First and foremost, Shiroba is dressed in a sexualized version of the miko garb (miko are shinto shrine maidens, and they are exclusively women) that includes stockings, and his hair is just as long, if not longer, than Aoba's. He also has red tassels in his hair, right behind his ears, which sort of look like earrings. In short, it would almost appear like Shiroba is trying to look more "feminine" in order to appeal more to the way he percieved Koujaku's tastes- after all, Shiroba/Desire is all of Aoba's impulses, thoughts, and desires taken to the extreme. Aoba thought that Koujaku likes women and femininity, so Shiroba WILL make himself look as feminine as he can to make Koujaku like him more.

There's also the fact that, compared to their good end sex scene, Shiroba is much more... Placid. In the good end, Aoba speaks, he laughs, he laughs AT Koujaku, he tries to turn his head away but agrees to look at Koujaku in the end; He is an active participant who is willing to laugh at his partner (in a way) and make demands. In contrast, Shiroba mostly goes with what Koujaku wants to do; He participates to a degree, sure, but he allows Koujaku to bite him, lick his blood, and fuck him pretty violently without any sort of resistance. This might be a stretch, but it can be seen as Shiroba trying to play a more "feminine" role- which means being passive, allowing your (male) partner to do whatever he wants to do with you (even when it's painful or uncomfortable), and let him essentially use you as a receptacle of his emotions and bodily fluids.

This is a very narrow understand of conventional gender roles, but given that Shiroba is a being of extremes, it makes sense for him to see his own gender and dynamic with Koujaku as that simple and two-dimensional. This whole ending is all about misunderstood intentions/desires, so Shiroba doing all he can to embody the most extreme conventional femininity in an attempt to appeal to Koujaku, while not having a clue that Koujaku was actually attracted to Aoba's masculinity.

The funniest part of it all is that Koujaku is actually a pretty feminie man himself; His very design blends masculine and feminine elements, which @asarigg points it out in her excellent essay on Koujaku, among plenty other things, and the way he acts mixes masculinity and femininity too. However, Aoba either doesn't see it, or he treats Koujaku as a "special case"; It's probably the most clear in the scene in the CD drama where Aoba says that hairpins "usually" look bad on men (after Koujaku asked him if he'd like to wear one), but that Koujaku makes it work. The whole plotline/emotional core of this route centers on Aoba relying on his simplified image of Koujaku when it comes to how he things about him, only to be proven dead wrong and forced to confront how multi-layered of a person Koujaku is- to reject the image he made of him in his head as a child and make a new, more nuanced one as an adult.

When Aoba was a kid, he saw Koujaku as his hero, someone who protected him, watched over him; He was kind of his masculine ideal, someone he wanted to be when he'll be older. Now that they're adults, Aoba still sees Koujaku as someone hyper-masculine, whose feminine traits and behaviors are glossed over because Koujaku is "allowed to" be feminine a bit. The sad thing is that a lot of Koujaku's masculinity is kind of a ruse that was taken on as a defense mechanic, learned back when Koujaku was living in an abusive household, was a victim of abuse, saw abuse inflicted onto his mother, and was possibly forced to perform violence to some degree as means of "education" (things like learning to fight hand-to-hand or swordfighting). Koujaku can fight because he tried to fight his abusive father and was trained to kill in the future, once he takes over the criminal empire. He flirts with women to fill the void he feels due to his rock bottom self-esteem and because he doesn't want to see women sad or mistreated after what he saw his mother go through. Koujaku's persona is carefully build and maintained, because all masculinity (or gender in general) is performed- this is what people around him expected him to be, that's what he was taught to be, and so he performs, even if it twists him up inside (we know he bottles up any negative emotions and doesn't share his struggles and trauma with anyone, which is also a part of toxic masculinity). It also seems like he's often out drinking with someone and he's a smoker- that's more of a theory, but people often find brief respite from their stress/unadressed emotions in substances, and while people of all genders do it, there seems to be a bigger social acceptance for men to indulge in order to "deal" with their problems and avoid showing "weakness" for just a bit longer.

The good thing is that Koujaku seems quite comfortable in his femininity. He loves his (stereotypically feminine) job, he remains kind and gentle to those who need it, he respects women around him and treats them well (even if that relationship is far from ideal of course), he's always considerate and caring towards Aoba, etc. It's interesting that despite liking and being attracted to Aoba's masculinity, he encourages him to branch out and seemingly embrace his own femininity more (he tells him he'd look nice in a hairpin, or that he'd love him no matter how he'd look like). I wonder if Koujaku found some kind of respite in his femininity back when he lived in his father's house and was potentially held to strict masculine gender roles enforced through violence.

It feels like one of these things that Aoba needs time to process and accept; In a couple years, he'll be doing deliveries with the most complex braid with flamboyant decorations and the most bitching eyeliner ever performed on Japanese soil.

[xoxochb]

I genuinely hate this generations view on women, especially from a man’s perspective. it’s like they want us skinny but when we’re skinny they want us bigger but when we’re too big they want us skinnier. and the worst part is that we do it too because women are so focused on male validation that they would do anything for the eyes of a man to be on them. and not only do men control this, they also tear apart friendship— women will fight over some of the most gods honest hideous men ever. and men additionally think that they have the right to control a woman’s body like it’s their own, who the actual hell are they to decide if we want an abortion or not? it should NOT be them, that is solely a woman’s decision. and if a woman would like to take birth control that is also her decision, not every female on this earth wants to get pregnant and have children, and I believe wholeheartedly that this should be respected. and I also don’t think that women have ever really been respected in the correct way— we’ve been treated as housewives who have a certain duty when in reality we are much more than just that, and I think women deserve more credit for what they do, which is a shit ton because we quite literally go through hell and back every month and we also give birth to the same people that will be later taking away our rights. but all in all, women are honestly mistreated in ways that is absolutely disgusting and it’s utterly insane that the world has even somewhat normalized this.

[genderkoolaid]

it's also wild because a lot of these people can grasp the idea that trans women are not systemically treated as cis men, even when being misgendered. and yet they cannot grasp the idea that even when trans men & NB seen as female are misgendered, it doesn't mean that we are treated as cis women.

like... you understand that just because a trans woman is misgendered, does not mean she has access to male privilege, even if the person misgendering her is a bioessentialist. but you think that a trans man being misgendered means he has cis woman privilege, just because that person is bioessentialist? hello????? this is what transradfeminism does to your mind

like half of the problem with discourse around ATM on this sight comes from the assumption that trans men are (systemically) seen and treated as cis men. but did you know that the other half comes from the assumption that trans men are systemically see as cis women

[thankstothe]

[sailing-ever-west]

don't join reddit you'll find yourself trying to explain things to men online and before you know it you'll suddenly understand sisyphus

[good-to-drive]

I think we should stop saying Paul was basically a woman and start saying Ringo was basically a woman, not because it's any less stupid but because it's exactly as stupid and much much funnier

[velvetvexations]

since i know the other side, in both good and bad faith, looks at your blog, i do have a question for them; let's posit that men categorically and universally are not oppressed as the ideology states, with the "splash damage" hypothesis and all. sure. definitionally, how do you define a man/masc/whatever you want to specify here, in a way that does not define any other gender or presentation of gender? what is Man?

it's not the testosterone unless you're very cruel to pre-transition trans women, or women that use t cream for various reasons. it's not genitalia or boob growth for the same reason. certainly not skin texture or hair for the same reason. so lets rule out personal body choices; i feel we can agree those are an individuals choice.

is it just saying you're a guy or using he/him pronouns? what about trans girls before they even know it's an option for them to transition? do you think trans women cannot be butches and want to use he/him some or all of the time? how do you intend to stop the girls who do? what about the women who don't necessarily identify as always having been women? especially when you transition later in life, that lived experience isn't wrong to have. is a woman who says she was a man someone who was privileged and now is not, or is she also exempt forever? do you care if she feels differently?

how do you separate what someone internally feels, which you cannot know, from what they physically show you and tell you? i boymode at my job; i AM physically transitioning, but i just keep saying i am a man. would you respect what i tell you? would you treat me like a man on the days i shave my face because i asked you to, or would you treat me like a woman because you think you know what i want better than i do?

where is Man? what is Man? you cannot define genders out of each other, i don't think; there's more diversity within the individual groups than between them. they regress to the average. Woman is not what is leftover when you remove Man from a person.

The answer they'd give is "someone who has male privilege." It's tautological as hell.

[thedreadvampy]

unwarranted Cis Opinion but I'm getting really uncomfortable w people responding to bathroom bills by posting pictures of trans men like DO YOU WANT THEM IN WOMEN'S BATHROOMS

bc like. no they're men. they should be in men's bathrooms unless that feels unsafe. but. it really feels like it's not helpful to lean into the idea that seeing someone presenting masc or being read as a man in a women's bathroom means You're In Danger.

like I know several butch women and NB ppl who are really scared around being on T or getting top surgery bc they're not men and they don't want to be in the men's bathroom, and in that circumstance stuff like growing facial hair or reading more androgynously can be really fucking scary when people are being primed by propaganda to be on edge and hyperreactive to anyone who doesn't look like their idea of a Cis Woman.

and I'm not laying that at the feet of the people saying "hey uhhhh trans men are men and don't belong in women's bathrooms" bc it is not their fault. it's the fault of a concerted effort to make it difficult and dangerous to be trans or substantively gender nonconforming in public.

but at the same time idk I guess it just worries me cause sometimes it feels like "you fools! you are worried about this group of trans people bc you think they're the Lurking Danger of Men In Bathrooms? WRONG! the Men Making You Feel Afraid In Bathrooms are actually THESE trans people!" when in fact neither of those groups using the fucking bathroom is a problem. just piss and mind your business. people need to go where they need to go.

anyway this country is a hot fucking trash fire that somehow accelerates its descent into open fascism more every day so it's all super good and normal. so don't take this too seriously tbh cause it's somewhere near #2535654476457899009765 on the list of priorities for Queer Discourse right now when the fucking human rights commission is actively rescinding protections from trans people. Please ignore my gibberish.