#we need more nonbinary butch lesbians

[mumzbasemnt]

roblox drabbles

[s4ndg3m]

hear me out on scag x split guys. they both start with "s" it's practically canon.

[vamptastic]

I need to come out to my synagogue soon because my voice has dropped a noticeable amount and it's getting to the point where not saying anything raises more questions than not. The congregation is very progressive, albeit in a way that is sometimes too enthusiastic, and I need to find a way to let everybody know that both isn't a big attention-grabbing statement and lets enough people understand my deal that I don't have to field a million individual conversations

[genderqueerdykes]

i have been trying for like. months to explain how the relationship between butch lesbians and trans men is not something akin to polar opposites and this is all i got. like it's not like this:

it's a venn diagram with a massive overlap in the middle. i'm not saying EVERY butch is a trans guy and EVERY trans guy is a butch dyke , i'm just saying it looks more like this:

these are not "mutually exclusive" terms- they do not mean the same thing, but we can be the same people, an very often are. there is a long history of butches who identify as FTM, trans men, drag kings, genderqueer, genderfluid, transmasculine, male, polygender, and two-spirit lesbians, and so much more. the relationship between lesbianism and queer masculinity is inseparable and the only people telling you that butches and trans men need to violently separate from one another and be at each other's throats are terfs. even if we do not share identities, we share our struggle together as heavily misunderstood and unseen masculine queers.

we stand up for each other when our identities get confused by strangers, and we get misgendered. we stand up for each other when terfs and terfpilled people tell us that transmasculine people and men can't be lesbians, when people say "butches just want to be men", when people say "butches aren't real women", when people call each of us bull dykes and trannies, when people mock the way FTMs walk and talk and look, and when people tell trans men they're "just butch dykes in denial". we stand up for each other and understand each others struggles.

whenever a butch lesbian asserts they're a woman no matter how masc they are, whenever a trans man asserts that they are a man and not a butch, whenever a butch struggles to be seen as both a man and a lesbian, and whenever a trans man returns to the lesbian community while embracing their manhood, we are part of the same community, we share the same struggles, and we owe it to each other to stay strong.

we are not enemies. we are bedfellows, lovers, family, spouses, partners, husbands, wives, brothers, sisters, siblings, friends, each others support networks, even if we don't share identities perfectly. whether you are butch and a woman, butch and a man, butch and something else entirely, a male, ftm, genderfluid, polygender, genderqueer, transmasculine, nonbinary, two-spirit or whatever else you may be lesbian, you are part of our family and your experience is worth being heard.

[elizabethrobertajones]

summer scions!! I absolutely love the new portraits for all their smug happy expressions. Except Y'shtola, who is not going to deign to give a camera a proper saucy look because that's silly. Urianger is smirking twice as hard on her behalf.

Glam review under the cut!

I unlocked Alphinaud first of the twins and didn't know Alisaie had a little necktie yet, so I'm deducting a point from my first impression because the sheer delight that he had a silly little necktie of some sort no matter the situation delighted me so thoroughly. Since they're still engaging in matchy twin dressing to some degree, I have to assume they either like it and won't admit it after digging in so hard, or Ameliance sent them off with cute outfits and matching backpacks, and they still don't really shop for themselves.

He's got the practical watch/compass gloves which are good for a technically proficient Sage and probably the most practical gear he's ever worn except for when he was poncho Alphy, but wearing ankle-length jeans seem like the least weather-appropriate choice of the Scions if we assume their average skin coverage is a good weathervane for the temperature in Tural. I chalk it up to teenage awkwardness.

8/10 unless he and Alisaie chose their outfits themselves, in which case it's a 9/10

I think Alisaie is the only Scion to keep a single piece of their default gear, and those are her usual gloves. She's colour-matched around it.

Because of the gloves and boots, she looks the most ready for hardcore hiking, somehow, and her matching Alphinaud with a cute button down shirt with rolled up sleeves along with that particular choice of baggier shorts (when she normally wears more form fitting shorts) do give me the closest to butch vibes it's probably likely to get for main characters. So I'm giving her an extra point I stole from Alphinaud for the lesbian vibes.

9/10 or 10/10 if she made these choices all by herself.

Everything about this cracks me up, from his portrait above to the image of him tanking open shirted once he pulls mobs.

Believe it or not, he's getting an additional point for those shoes simply because the competition in practicality in tanking is G'raha.

I had a moment of excitement when I thought the necklace was pink because that's always a cute Ryne/Minfillia thing fanartists give him with ribbons and such, but once I got zoomed in on him it was red, so I guess he's just been shopping. Although, the turquoise shorts are her eye colour and the actual large diamond shapes are secretly Mothercrystal coded in those colours, which just cracks me up that you can pick out one of the worse days of his life (Urianger's grand Warrior of Darkness plan) in his Chill Summer Beach Vibes look.

Douchebag beach bro shell bracelet as well, which really makes me double down on him and Urianger spending way too much on tourist bait along the stalls in the Famous Turali Market. The hat and sunglasses are giving him one of the Most tourist-y looks thematically reflecting how a lot of the Scion guys were just here to hang out, narratively or literally. Maybe he's trying not to get such an intense tan again, which is the only reason he's not entirely topless.

11/10 I could not stop laughing when I got him and Urianger to 100 and Beheld The Brilliance in the same moment.

Please note the raised sunglasses in Urianger's portrait, which are not the model his character uses.

I am delighted that I had been incorporating that island watch into my healer glams on both the logic you need to know your clock positionals but also they're largely the smarty pants jobs (WHM being vibes only aside - it gets its own glams :P). And here's Urianger and Alphinaud both using watches.

Now, I had a moment of being vaguely disappointed he had trousers not a skirt or something else swishy and androgynous, but then I did realise that I, a nonbinary weirdo who relates to Urianger since he made me nonbinary, have actually gone to a couple of garden parties dressed in some variation of this exact outfit of light trousers and a nice button up. Plus, the earrings are in both ears, so no "Google, which ear is the gay one?", these are just straight up cute femme dangly earrings with his favourite little dudes on.

More importantly, the colours he's repping are those of Lopporit Radio. He probably tunes in every night for his broadcasts :')

Mirrored sunglasses for the guy notorious for keeping thoughts and plans close to his chest and choosing deliberately to be enigmatic even when it serves zero purpose except for I guess gender affirming care. (The gender is Weird Bitch.)

I can't tell how I feel about those dad sandals. I suppose it depends if he's wearing them like a fashion model (brand new and clean with perfect pedicured feet) or if those are REALLY dad at the beach-like and, since I'm not a foot person, this for me is only a choice between "not off-putting" and "AURGH".

9/10 the proximity to Thancred hauls him up several points of misgivings I had, and the lopporit shout outs are killing me :')

I unlocked Y'shtola last and holy fuck I am a lesbian. I don't even recognise where those boots come from, so either a really expensive glam or something I just have not stumbled on. She has toe rings I think? And painted nails? I have no idea if the garter (?) is part of the boots glam or a custom thing as result of not recognising the boots and how much of them is normal. I feel like they customised a lot on her anyway - the back of her top has purple beads that match her staff (not dyable on the real piece)

and I think the necklace has to be part of the top instead of a separate necklace piece with the way it hangs, AND the bracelets are a glove piece with the original summer glam, but I assume they're layered with the false nails, also in the glove slot. All in all it's giving the sort of effort which is starting to creep up to what I'd expect from the modding community not the game. I mean, not THAT good but getting close. Baby steps towards what fandom can make :P

She really is god's favourite meow meow.

Anyway I can't really judge this fairly because it's really hot and I love her so I'm just going to give it 100/10 and move on. :)

how did I get a picture where Estinien looks like he's stooping to get in the frame...

The fact he has Azure Dragoon Blue Top and then Violently Nidhogg Fuchsia shorts is the colour theory that absolutely killed me. When he lights up during his burst and starts glowing pink all over his shorts are like. Taking him over like the eye once did I think.

love a guy who can embrace his past trauma and dress to match all that has passed before and all that he intends to do now (kill something large and tasty, grill it on the beach, fall asleep with a beer in hand until the waves come in and wake him up).

I gave him that wooden bracelet in the glam he has on my desktop screen so once again I'm feeling weirdly vindicated.

Other details: no ponytail despite the warm weather because he's got enough ventilation. The fact there's cactaurs on his shirt when he's on record for eating them is amazing. We should imagine he's wearing his jobstone like that pendant (since he's one of the only guys with a confirmed jobstone despite being the Guy Without A Job notoriously that one time.)

Unlike Thancred's hat and sunglasses combo, which seems fun and boisterous somehow, he seems the most walled off of all the sunglasses wearers even though he's not the most mysterious. The visor really helps make it a sort of wall. Maybe just because his terse upfront personality and somehow despite his clothes horse habits THIS amount of whimsy seems the most out of character at first glance, but he DOES look uncomfortable to me.

Somehow I find everything about this outfit excellent for his character but also like maybe he was forced into it, everyone cornering him and telling him the Scion Beach Party was a mandatory work event and he was not allowed to beg off of it and he did put some work in expressing himself but also is going to go find a much quieter corner to lurk in for the day, when not competing with Thancred (can't grill, loves it) for the barbeque (Estinien can grill, would only do it because the threat of Thancred doing it wrong is too high).

confused 7/10 mostly because I think Krile is blackmailing him and not because I don't love everything about this.

Here's how G'reenha Tia can still win -

Anyway here's the deducted point for tanking in flip flops (PERFECTLY acceptable BLM gear btw but he's Mr Versatile.)

(I joke but the main character of my novels is a flip-flop wearing menace who could and would tank in them)

Between the padlock and key necklace and the woven bracelet right after we all went feral over the Thavnarian bracelets for couples thing so recently (and Corvos is just across the water!) he's absolutely dripping cutie pie love interest coding yet again.

(Also yes I know the lock and key thing is very funny because we were introduced to him learning he was a fancy key to a big door.)

Gains a point back because the other green g'raha thing is I'm pretty sure people use this shirt glam because it kinda looks like it has weed on it.

Don't quote me on that, vibes only.

Anyway he came colour coordinated (with his original eye colour and hair colour not the bright Allagan dalamud red dye that goes with his normal outfit) so so precise and neat, like he's going to some sort of formal event, and even with flip flops he really does seem incredibly put together like the twins or Y'shtola, just for full outfit cohesiveness.

As someone who would hold G'raha's hand on the romantic gondola vibe, 10/10.

3 out of 10 and a huge cringe if you would not. He's got to stop Striving.

Hey it's the star of the show!! Adorable hairstyle out, cute plot-important earring on, and wearing her exact character colours but adorable beach wear :)

I love that she looks kind of like she went to the girls for advice and got the top from Y'shtola and the shorts from Alisaie, and she probably was very serious and stressed about getting this right even though there's no rules and no one's judging her -

oops.

Anyway the ballet shoes are adorable and go with all the cute picto spins and twirls :)

I think the strict colour scheme does speak to the slight lack of fleshing out she got so far in the story (we don't really have any real character reason that picto in particular spoke to her and this glam isn't one of the many fun takes people had on how to dress to meet that brief ). I don't think DT did more than just repeat that she's serious and sweet and trying really hard to get out of her shell and be more fun and creative and also she's been practicing dodging really hard she shouts mid-Trust combat (bless her). But ALSO getting out of the shell is really hard and she only found out everything and got some closure in the final level 100 quests so there wasn't really much to do with her after that.

This is like her First Non-Plot-Critical Whimsy Moment and losing the hood or any cat ears entirely (and there are perfectly functional cat ears to wear in game) is a good step considering we know she wears it precisely because she needed a sort of advance PR campaign to make her look cute and approachable before she opened her mouth and started bringing down the vibe (serious scary children are SO funny though and i love that for her). Having the same top as Y'shtola is a good thing for trying to make her less childish and have her trying to show that now as she takes this huge step out from the background. I mean, it still has a slight sense of her costuming herself and pushing herself out of comfort zones as she always does, but it's 100% in character so I adore it.

1000/10 because Krile is great and there's so much going on here and it's so fun when a character's whole personality is a costume and then they're like aurgh wait do I even want that??

[shaylogic]

Queer Experience Watching Barbie - AFAB Masculinity

I started to go into this in tags on another post but I wanted to type this up separately and try to develop my thoughts a little more. . .

Ryan!Ken’s arc in Barbie (2023) has been buzzing in my head for days.

I got fixated on it for a couple of major reasons:

1) We rarely have seen a feminist movie take time to address men with compassion in how patriarchy harms them too.

2) As a trans masc person, I think it hits a specific part of my identity that I don’t consciously let myself think about for too long. Something about being raised in a female world with sisterhood and community. Then being isolated in adult manhood without the tools to prepare you for that. Conscientious of respecting women and being unbothered by feminimity around you, but not knowing your place in the world.

How do I put it?

I know it’s not the direct intention of the film itself, but I’ve seen other trans folks (especially transmasc), reacting similarly to the feeling we get from it.

Ken’s arc feels pretty reminicent of the struggle afab lgbt folks go through when considering masculinity in their identity (butch lesbians, afab nbs, trans men, etc.)

How to make peace with masculine aspects of yourself without losing the women in your life? (One can argue Kate McKinnon’s Weird Barbie has aspects of this as well.)

Of course, then Ken goes off on the adopting patriarchy ride, which IS the point of the movie, and may skew a bit from the transmasc read on it--though I have known a trans guy here and there who avoids being misgendered so hard that they can become somewhat sexist. To which I say: “You don’t need to have a dick to be a man, and you don’t need to BE a dick to be a man.” But I digress.

Something about Ken being comfortable in a woman’s world but not understanding why he’s being shut out from socially bonding with them (in any sense! Romantic, Familial, Platonic Friendship. . .)

The overall theme of the movie for both Barbie and Ken--in an allegory of heavy gender roles harming all--leading them each to have to figure out who they are in themselves, regardless of others. . . 

Trans masc folx can relate to both Barbie and Ken’s arcs.

I don’t want to detract from Barbie’s arc being the main point of the movie.

I think the reason why we get hung up on Ryan!Ken’s character is because. . . we’ve related to the Barbie plot in other movies and shows before, thinking back to our “girlhoods” as children.

I have never seen the arc Ken has in this in any other story!!!!

There are some Man Movies that have attempted to discuss the struggle of Being a Man--but they often come off as too dismissive of feminine experiences, and are therefore as offputting to transmasc people as women.

Because of the nature of the two worlds exhibited in this movie, and Ken’s backround in his setting, personality, and purpose in relation to the Barbies, he’s a Man living with Female Socialization, in a Woman’s World; he’s a male character that inherently admires and respects women in his nature (until the real world influence distorts it).

This isn’t a perfect example of a transmasc experience either, but it’s a lot closer than most of us generally get to see! That’s why so many of us are getting caught up in this.

Please, other trans folx (transfems, too!), I really need us to have a discussion about this. What were your experiences and thoughts around this movie?

P.S. Yeah, we kinda get that nonbinary allegory from Allan (not a Ken, not a Barbie, siding with Feminism in the Gender War), but he wasn’t in significant focus of the plot the way Ryan!Ken was. If I try to read into Allan, I don’t have much to work with.

[mommyclaws]

Is everyone willingly ignoring it or when are we going to realize this petty label discourse has always been rooted in misogyny. This started long before Bi Lesbians. Some of you are just too new or simply never paid enough attention to realize the history of this hatred of lesbians. Do any of you remember?

First it was "Butches aren't valid" because they were invading wlw spaces with their "masculinity"

Then it was moved onto: "Trans women aren't valid" because actually they were the ones invading wlw spaces with their "masculinity" The exact same arguement being used against cis women as well.

Then "Pan/Bi women aren't valid" because your attraction to men or anyone other than a woman doesn't belong in wlw spaces.

Then it was "Nonbinary lesbians aren't valid" because if you're "not a woman" by my definition you're invading wlw spaces.

"Asexual/Aro women aren't valid" because your lack of "real" attraction to women doesn't belong in wlw spaces.

"Lesboys aren't valid" because you are invading wlw spaces with your "masculinity"

"Bi/Pan lesbians aren't valid" because your attraction to men or anyone other than a woman doesn't belong in wlw spaces.

Oh wait? Where have we heard those last two before? Wasn't everyone arguing about those SAME issues with Butches/Trans wlw and Pan/Bi wlw?

Yes, exactly. Would any of you take ONE look back and realize this is only repetition of problems we have already decided don't dictate our identities?

They say, "You're not a real lesbian unless you do this and that and even if you do that you'll never be good enough." No matter what lesbains do, there will always be a problem. Why? Because this isnt about being a lesbian, this isnt about women, this is rhetoric started by terfs and it will never be anything more.

Sure, you can follow their rules to feel valid, but you'll never be good enough. You're an invader too because they'll sprinkle in little things to feed the insecurities and rules that THEY fucking created.

You're not a real lesbian unless you're a "gold star lesbain" meaning you've never dated or been attracted to a man. You're not a real lesbian unless you're feminine. You're not a real lesbian unless you hate masculinity.

Which is just translation for: You're not a real wlw unless you hate men and don't deviate from gender norms. And, WHO would've thought! Is exactly what terfs want.

They sink their claws into the newer generations because they don't remember what our community has had to go through, all they see is the fake issues created and they think it's a threat because they're being fed "This is what's valid and this is what's not" and it seems like it's never going to end because women being anything other than passive and simple with their identities are immediately taken as a threat to the community by those who are insecure and need to demand the exclusion of anyone who doesn't follow their rules to feel like theyre part of a group.

Anti-Bi/Pan Lesbians have become sheep because they only surround themselves with online discourse instead of the real issues LGBTQ people face and in their attempt to keep a "clean community" They're more unwelcomed than the people they tell to kill themselves. So caught up in fake problems others or themslves have made up that they fail to grasp the simplest of concepts: Labels DO NOT exist in real life. Labels are created to help people describe how they feel or identify. They are not and have NEVER been a final definition.

Labels are worn HOWever and WHENever the owner feels like it. They're not collars. They're not cages. You can't use them as such. You can't use them against us.

When? WHEN? When did we decide that a label- A WORD- matters MORE than the real life feelings that real life people are experiencing?

Why did we dehumanize the ability to feel attraction and expression?

[genderkoolaid]

I'm sorry but you people have demeaned the word lesbian so badly... the LITERAL definition of a lesbian is a NON-MAN who likes NON-MEN. How is that so fucking hard to understand? Not you specifically, but people like you have made it into something it's not; the whole "bi lesbian" and "straight lesbian" shit, saying trans men can date lesbians (which is literally just transphobic), straight up just saying lesbians can date men???? MEN???? DO YOU NOT HEAR YOURSELVES?

And now the whole butch discourse lmao. Sure, maybe in days long past it was a broader term, but today when someone hears the word butch, I can guarantee their minds will jump to a butch lesbian. If y'all want it to be the GBT community so bad then just say so

Also I can guarantee that you were one of the mfs laughing at lesbians who used he/him or he/they pronouns back in 2020 lmao performative ass bitch

Definitions of words do not descend from Heaven straight from the lips of God. We make them up! So I simply disagree with your definition of lesbian, as do many others. Personally, I enjoy the definition of "queer love/desire for women." For one, it centers lesbianism around women, instead of centering it around the exclusion of men. And two, "non-men loving non-men" is a definition which utterly erases nonbinary people. If an agender person is dating a neutrois person, they are not lesbians- or gay men- simply because y'all cannot get your head out of your binary asses for five seconds. "Non-men loving non-men" is a definition that attempts to be nonbinary-inclusive but only succeeds in making nonbinary & genderqueer identities palatable for radical feminism and political lesbianism. Honestly, I would prefer someone who defines lesbian as "woman loving woman" but understands that many people have complex relationships with womanhood while still feeling attached to the label of lesbian, than someone who uses this "NB-inclusive" definition and goes absolutely feral over genderqueers who are Doing It Wrong.

Anyways, speaking of radical feminism: acknowledging male lesbians and mspec lesbians is not "making lesbianism something its not." It is just recognizing the beautiful complexity that has always existed within lesbianism.

The lesbian community- which I'm using to refer to all kinds of communities organized around queer relationships to women & womanhood- has always been a haven for a lot more people than cis women exclusively into other cis women. The idea of sexuality-as-identity is very recent, and the idea of drawing a hard line between people who only like people of the same gender and people who like the same gender and more is also extremely recent. Beyond that, trans men and nonbinary people have always taken shelter under lesbianism. "Butch" in the context of lesbianism has always been a trans* identity, a way for people with a queer gender to find community and safety.

The reason why we have this idea of lesbianism as a strict category with hard borders is..... you guessed it..... radical feminism! And specifically "political lesbianism," which essentially placed woman-only relationships as the only true feminist relationship you could have. "Lesbian" became a political identity because of its focus on woman-woman relationships. But that meant that, for political lesbianism to be acceptable to radical feminism, it needed to conform to radical feminist beliefs about what makes a good feminist. Which meant:

No trans women or fems (because they are too male and probably predators)

No trans men or mascs (because they are too male and also traitors)

No bisexuals (because they are too male by association and are also traitors)

No penetrative sex, or at least no strap ons (because it imitates men)

No kinky sex (see above but with bonus "kink is evil" flavoring)

No butch/femme roles (because they imitate heterosexuality; everyone has to be neutrally androgynous).

I believe that much of modern lesbian discourse comes from trying to marry lingering radfem beliefs with modern attempts at trans-inclusivity. So you adapt the blatant transphobia: now, trans women are allowed in (as long as they are palatable to cis women), because they're women! And nonbinary people can also be allowed in- at first they were woman-aligned, and then later as long as they weren't man-aligned. Being butch/femme is Back In Style, but we have to soothe the gender anxiety that butches cause by assuring everyone that only True Lesbians can be butch, and butches are always women, even if they kind of aren't, but regardless they're definitely not men, because butch has always been a lesbian term (except it hasn't.) The discourse is haunted by the ideas that lesbianism is constantly under attack, more than anyone else, and that lesbian culture is unique and special and must be guarded from (male/-aligned) invaders who are probably also sexual predators.

To say that this is all just "days long pasts" ignores both that, in physical queer spaces there very much still are male lesbians and bi lesbians who are accepted parts of their local communities, and that you only see those days as "long past" because of the impact of radical feminism on lesbianism. The only reason you see these changes as a good thing is because you've swallowed radical feminist ideas without realizing it.

Also, "if you say butch most people will think of butch lesbians" is an extremely silly argument. Literally who fucking cares. If you say "man" there are still a lot of people who will immediately think of exclusively cis men (see: every feminist who says shit like "if men could get pregnant). Does that mean that trans men should just give up their identities because other people don't understand them? You dork?

Anyways. The funniest part of this ask is how damn confident you are that I was apparently hating on he/him lesbians three years ago. Idk how to tell you this but I'm a boygirl gaylesbianbisexual and have identified this way for years. I have been personally terrorized by shitty lesbian identity politics, the same ones you are repeating now, which told me that if I was even 1% male then identifying as a lesbian made me a disgusting predator. Which caused me years of suffering because no matter how hard I tried, I could not ignore my multigenderedness and how that affected my sexuality. Sowwy but you look silly as hell and your argument is bad and you should feel bad </3

[ventbloglite]

The thing is...I've read a lot of posts and listened to a lot of videos by binary trans men & women and non-binary people of any AGAB and intersex people to whom masculinity is assumed or desired.

Each group has unique experiences with unique bigotry targetted at them for being who they are. But each group also experiences misplaced bigotry, aimed at a different group but used to hurt them anyway.

There's also a distinct and very real overlap between transmisogyny and transandrophobia. The thread that connects these concepts for binary and nonbinary trans masc people, AMAB's of any identity (intersex and not), and yeah even some butch cis lesbians is what we've been harking on about so long - the inherent villianising of masculinity in particularly when deemed to be in the 'incorrect' place!

A butch woman is not expected to be 'too masculine'. If she's seen as failing womanhood in this way, she will face discrimination from others for doing this even amongst other lesbians.

Attending groups or events for 'women and nonbinary' only to find out they mean 'women and women-lite' and don't want anyone with any proximity to masculinity to be there. Being told or being able to quickly understand that your masculinity is making others uncomfortable despite the fact that you are amongst other queer people/trans people. Being expected to preform femininity to a certain stereotyped degree to prove you are 'safe'.

These are all specific things which could be considered both transandrophobia OR transmisogyny, depending on who they happen to but...now here me out, doesn't that just mean we need to sit and realise that the distinction between them isn't always rigid? That there is an antimasculine issue within the trans and queer community but it doesn't target any one particular group over another. The acceptance of queer masculinity is a must. It won't solve all issues not by far, but would go a long way into making sure trans women (especially but not just those who 'don't pass' and maybe never want to be feminine anyway) feel more accepted and less like they'll always be seen as predators for being born male/assigned male at birth. It'll go a long way into accepting the 'men' part of trans men and the 'masc' part of any trans masc. It'll go a long way to accepting butch lesbians are still women despite their outward proximity to 'maleness'.

And if you're seriously reading this and are about to go on a tirade about how masculinity is praised and desired in society - stop. Cis masculinity is praised and desired and even then it has rules.

The world is a lot more complex than men and masculinity good anything else bad but unfortunately if you keep seeing it this way even if you disagree you are going to be responsible for both transandrophobia and transmisogyny persisting.

[psi-spectacular]

VESSEL AU

ok, basically, the au's premise is that god as we know him existed before the rift. long before that, he kicked most other regional pantheons and placed Himself and His angels there. But when the rift opened, they all got ripped out of the sky and killed, then Mitternacht ascended. One last angel remains, deep in the depths of the drain, who's body holds up the entire structure. It feels that Mitternachts pantheon is hedonic and disgusting, and wants to reinstate its creator in His "rightful place". Around that time, a much younger patty was cave diving and managed to find its way up the angels body (the angel is HUGE, like its cells can be seen huge.) and accidentally finds her way to its heart. Shes in a really dark place at the moment, so the angel says it can help purify her soul if she repents. She doesn't know what it means but agrees. There's a flash of searing pain and light, and then she's back on the streets, a gash in her chest, no memories, and begging for help. The only thing she remembers is her name and no one recognizes her since she doesn't really have any family. The angel's creator has a new vessel to grow in, replacing pattys heart with the start of His light. it kinda functions as a normal heart if a bit funky for a while, but when its not able to grow large enough by the rift it gets pissed as hell, and it tries to grow faster and takes over more of her mind.

TL;DR Patty gets infected by christianity and needs a nonbinary butch lesbian cowboys true love to save her /j

[themostsanebug]

HEY CHAT! gonna just offer up my opinion on sexuality discourse as someone whos main special interest is identity labels specifically of the sexuality and gender variety! aka. me rambling about how certain labels can make sense and we should all just shut the fuck up and let people do what they feel comfy with.

MAIN ONE ON THIS LIST BEING THE TERM LESBOY!!!!! this one is SO massively shat on for. people thinking it is ONLY used by men who identify as lesbian. and while yes that is the case and some do use it as such! there are other ways this label is used in a way that can "make more sense" to those that are hesitant to accept these people. for example? transmasc or butch women. genderfluid lesbians who present mostly masc or feel masc. same with agender/nonbinary/etc folk. multigender people who just so happen to also be a man in some way. POINT IS! all of these are valid even if you dont think so! at the end of the day, someone using this label isnt HURTING anyone. no one is HURT when this label is used.

same with folks who are bi-lesbians, pan-lesbians, etc. the explanation for this one? two separate forms of attraction with two different sexualities needing to be attached. for example, maybe a bi-lesbian is bisexual with their sexual attraction and lesbian with their romantic attraction. i could be far off, i do tend to just reason these out in my head, but this DOES seem to make the most sense to myself.

this may be very jumbled and hard to understand but at the end of the day all this was meant to convey is that someones gender and sexuality is THEIR business and THEIR choice to choose what theyd like to identify with! as long as they arent hurting anyone they really dont owe anyone an explanation.

[genderqueerdykes]

if you are a trans man or masc, masculine nonbinary, genderqueer, genderfluid or other gender non conforming identity, masc gay, a bear, a butch, stud, or boi, or other masculine queer person and don't feel welcome in any queer spaces, you're not alone.

the communities both irl and online have become EXTREMELY hostile toward mascs and men to the point of straight up excluding us and changing their wording to justify their violent exclusion. from renaming nonbinary spaces to "femme & them" and "she+" spaces, to telling men & mascs that they would "Scare" the women and "nonbinary" folks just by being there, as if masculinity and manhood are inherently traumatizing to be around.

masculine and male nonbinary folks have it so hard- most nonbinary spaces are almost definitely women's spaces who also conflate womanhood with nonbinaryhood, and often times just view nonbinary people as confused women. we are not inherently traumatizing to be around: masc enbies need places to go. we are still nonbinary and still trans and still queer for fucks' sake

nonbinary has never and will never mean femme or woman-adjacent inherently. nonbinary means what it means: people who don't or refuse to adhere to the gender binary, regardless of what side it is. masculinity is included in this, femininity is not the only way to be nonbinary.

masc queers do not have to bend over backwards to try to be more feminine and thus "less threatening" in order to have places to go. that's dysphoric and just inaccurate to a lot of queer folks' identity and presentation. it blows my mind because it makes no sense, anyway, even within the gay community, hypermasculinity has been present and even sought after by some people who find it very attractive, twunks, hunks, bears... but between the periods in queer history people started viewing masc gay leathermen and kinksters as the ones who were responsible for spreading AIDS and thus removing them from pride parades,

AND the lesbian separatism moment picking up to remove butches & male & masc lesbians from lesbian spaces identity, paving the way for modern rdical femniism, we've only entered a downhill landslide of hating men and mascs and ultimately trying to erase us from the queer community entirely.

the queer community is not the "women & femmes community". the queer experience is broad and vast, it includes a wide variety of masculine and male experiences, as well as genderfluid, multigender, completely ungendered and other gendered experiences. the lesbian, trans, bisexual, nonbinary, gay and general queer communities aren't the "safe place to hide from men & mascs community" like estranged rdfems and terfpilled trans folk like to tell you they are.

this is the QUEER community and it includes ALL forms of queerness, masc, femme, butch, male, neutral, bigender, neutral, and all. he/shes and he/hims and he/theys and he/its and so on are just as much of a part of this communities as she/hers and they/thems. you can't cast a blanket of "inherently abusive" over all men and mascs and one of "inherently abused/incapable of being abusive" over all women and femmes because that just traps you in a fantasy land that doesn't exist AND it prevents mascs and men from getting the help, resources and community they NEED.

men & mascs are hurt and abused by women & femmes every day and we refuse to speak about them because we live under a white cisheteronormal patriarchy and have complaints about how that functions. the complaints are legitimate but assuming that all men and mascs are oppressing all women and femmes and that women can never be oppressive is a false as hell narrative that actively damages people.

enough is enough. this mindset is hurting people. it's leaving masc and male queers to be estranged, harmed and even dead. i care about you if you're being affected by this mentality and these behaviors. you deserve community, safety, and a sense of belonging, you do belong, even if we struggle to form our own spaces due to unjust hatred. we will do our best to band together and keep each other safe. we must

[thurio-edau]

So i saw your post saying that trans men can be lesbians, and i didn't support before and I'm not sure if i do *now* so can you explain it a bit more? (sorry if I'm being stupid) I wanna hear more before just saying they aren't valid.

sure!! sorry for late reply, i had troubles logging in tumblr.

there is more than one way for this. sometimes a trans man identifies as a lesbian/sapphic before the egg cracks. and he can still feel that after transitioning. if he doesn't feel comfortable calling himself straight, he can still identify as lesbian/sapphic! another one is that some trans men do not feel misgendered by calling themselves lesbians, or some still feel a connection to their female side. it doesn't make them any less trans, but it doesn't make them any less sapphic either.

it's not only trans men. transmascs are not the same as trans men; transmascs aren't binary men. demiboys, paraboys, genderfae, masc nonbinary, gender nonconfirming... or multigenders like bigender or pangender identities. just because their identity is masc-aligned doesn't make them any less valid.

the term lesboy is an interesting term. there are also different ways for lesboys to exist, like transfems who do not feel misgendered by the boy label, or butches who prefer masculine-nonconfirming identities, even xenogenders that feel themselves more masculine but are still lesbians etc etc.

the reason why queer labels exist is because we want to be comfortable being who we are. it's why there are lots of labels, because people want to know what they are most of the time, and not everyone is comfortable with the same thing. and you don't have to be one to support them either. im not a lesboy, but i don't need to be one to support them. masculine aligned lesbians also exist, and are valid! i hope i was able to explain, and have a good day :)

[velvetvexations]

Just a theory but I think the reason egg jokes work well for trans women, and not so much for everyone else, is because greater society doesn't let men be feminine. The queer community on the other hand sees femininity as an upgrade. A lot of trans women say they just needed permission to be a woman. If a cis man* has the thought he might be a woman, he just needs someone to tell him it's ok to upgrade himself.

Whereas we see masculinity as a downgrade. No one wants to suggest manhood as an option, and when they do it's usually malgendering. It seems to be common among trans men that when manhood is presented as an option there's an ick moment because Men Bad that drives them further into the closet. And nonbinary people of course don't want to hear that they're just a binary gender in denial.

(That being said, I think trans women should be allowed to make forcefem content among themselves, if it makes a transmasc uncomfortable they should block that content)

Yeah, I think that definitely plays a part. Even a butch lesbian joking about being mannish is usually being ironic and humorously reclaiming the kinna thing that gets lobbed at her as an insult.

Conceptually-speaking I didn't mind forcefem jokes kept to appropriate places until it clicked for me how much the "it's an upgrade!" thing is in play and now it bothers me a lot more. Not to the degree I would necessarily go out and police it assuming people aren't actively being dicks about it, but IDK. The "female supremacy" angle, joking or otherwise, creeps me out and really gets on my nerves.

[freezerbnuuy]

I think something a lot of predominantly-white trans people need to come to terms with on this site is that

being trans doesn't purify you morally.

I see the absolute worst fucking takes coming from certain people on here, especially by binary trans people - who seem to think their transness is a get-out-of-shit-free card that allows them to downplay, ignore or be shitty towards intersex people, butch lesbians and cis people of colour (especially Black, Indigenous, Arab women and Latinas as well) who speak out about how gendered prejudice, violence and similar affects them as well as just perisex (non-intersex) trans people. And even more issues under the cut.

I see TERF bullshit reframed with a trans framework and considered 'progressive' as a result by white transfems, I occasionally see transmascs trying to act like transmisogyny is fine because a handful of trans women said something they didn't like / something bad. I see intersex and Black folk only ever bought up to win an argument and that's it. People who do or don't share our identities don't exist solely so we can use them as 'gotchas' toward other people, we actually have to listen to what they have to say about their oppression and the ways we have been leaving them out of discussions or ignoring what they have to say.

Black trans women constantly speak out about how they deal with much more violence and hatred then white trans women (both from people within our own community and outside of it) and a number of white transfems don't care to listen or include them in discussions of transmisogyny. Intersex people always speak out about the ways they're ignored and how the TMA / TME label divisions do practically no-one any favours, especially not for intersex people, but predominantly-white trans people are honestly too busy trying to play Olympics with one another to listen or care for what intersex people have to say.

Nonbinary people like myself are also sick of not just being left out of these discussions but often being considered 'fake' by the standards of binary trans people or trans and cis people alike obsessing over our bodies and birth sex, and if I see another trans person say shit like 'theyfabs' and 'theymabs' I'm going to lose my mind. The obsession with other people's birth sex in the 'don't be obsessed with other people's birth sex' community is SOMETHING ELSE ENTIRELY!

It's disgusting the way people will bank on their marginalised identity being the thing that purifies them and absolves them or excuses them of all toxicity, prejudices, and general shitty behaviour. Yes every marginalised identity is capable of being like this, but lately I have seen it way more with my own community than in any other. Being trans does not suddenly make you a good person. (It doesn't suddenly make you a terrible person as well, I've seen what you assholes are like to trans men or transmascs, and what people are like considering trans women some kind of imminent danger the moment they realise they're trans. Nor the 'umming' and 'ahhing' and being Judged By The Binary Trans Council how good or bad you might be when you're nonbinary, lmao. )

You don't get to use slurs against other trans people because you consider yourselves more oppressed than they are or because you don't like them. People don't lose their identities because you don't like them or because they are bad people - if you want to be helpful, focus your anger on the thing they did wrong, which WAS NOT being trans / being trans in a way you don't agree with.

You are still capable of harbouring all the prejudices and toxic behaviours you had before you realised you were trans. You are still capable of being racist, sexist, homophobic...you are still capable of being any flavour of prejudiced or shitty.

'But you're white and trans too!' Yup I am, and I know a lot of people on Tumblr consider themselves the One Good One but I am open to the fact that I am capable of being prejudiced, subconsciously or otherwise. All of the above applies to me as well. I need to constantly keep an eye on myself too. I've made the error of speaking over people on their own issues a number of times outside of Tumblr and it's something I definitely should not do.

And for those of you who aren't trans cheering this on, this applies to you too. Like I said, anyone marginalised or otherwise is capable of trying to hyper-justify their own prejudices and it needs to stop.

TERFS, do not think any of this means I care about how people treat you. You constantly use being a woman to be cunts to literally everyone who isn't a skinny white cis woman, you use it to get other people harassed, attacked and killed whilst maintaining yourselves as the victims of everything. You can all go fuck yourselves.

[mommyclaws]

look as a lesbian I don’t get why it’s so awful to just want lesbian spaces?? We as queer people all have different experiences and we can have smaller spaces while still embracing the whole community.

Lesbians go through different experiences than bi non-men do. That DOES NOT mean “we suffer more” or whatever because I hate the whole oppression olympics shit. We are not attracted to men neither sexually nor romantically, and that’s what makes us oppressed in this heteronormative world. We go through harassment, corrective rape, violence, and conversion “therapy” because we are homosexual. If my dad ever found out I was exclusively attracted to women I would get kicked out. Why is it suddenly so awful and “gatekeepy” to ask us to have our own spaces? We still have sapphic spaces! We even have bi spaces and pan spaces! Heck, I see gay non-women are allowed to have their own spaces!

It’s harmful to be treated as a monolith. I’m not attracted to men, and saying im an “exclusionist” for this is lesbophobic. I’m not evil for being exclusively attracted to non-men. I’m not evil for saying we should have our own spaces while we’d still have sapphic spaces!

Words have meanings, and the lesbian label is important to me, for all of its history and all of my struggles. I’m tired of us all being seen as “big mean lesbians who hate men” so so much. It reeks of misogyny to me.

I am heavily disappointed, and I ask everyone to please understand why bi lesbians are harmful.

I'm disappointed you've missed the point of my post. I was talking about the history of different lesbians and sapphics being excluded and hated in our community through generations. The conversation wasn't about bi lesbians specifically, it was about the butches, transfemmes, Pan/Bi, Aro/Ace, nonbinary, and countless other identities that were or ARE still considered not "valid" members of our community at point or another. I was pointing out how this "Bi Lesbian exclusion" is just a repeat of past mistakes and in the retrospective it is rooted in radfem/terf ideology that claims sapphics have to present and feel a certain way to be accepted. I didn’t say anywhere that being attracted to non-men is evil, I didn’t call anyone a “big mean lesbian”. You’re putting words into my mouth. That entire post was about defending sapphic’s right to attraction and expression.

Lesbian, bisexual, pansexual, non cis women and etc can all be oppressed, harassed, hate crimed, rejected by friends/family and other terrible things for their non heteronormative attraction.

Some people are failing to realize these exclusively “one identity spaces" they feel are being threatened don't actually exist in real life. Sure someone can have like, a "nonbinaries only" discord server or a meet up with friends who are all the the same identity. But a majority of queer spaces in real life? They don't have those rules because theres no way to separate queer identities neatly like that- There isn't a need to. You're going to find bisexuals and pansexuals and nonbinaries and trans people and all sorts of other identities at the same lesbian bar, the same sapphic support group, the same circle of friends.

So what exactly are these "spaces" that every other identity has and lesbians supposedly don't? Maybe ask why bisexuals, pansexuals, etc also being in a sapphic space feels so threatening to some in the first place? They have a right to be there as well. We are a community.

A label can be used and defined as whatever the owner of the label is comfortable with! "Lesbian" has always been an umbrella term. It can be a singular identity or it can describe any sapphic experience or it can do lots of things, labels have always been flexible in this way. Someone using the label differently than another person isn't harmful. It's expression.