#victarion ii

[istumpysk]

Operation Stumpy Re-Read

ADWD: Victarion I (Victarion II) [Chapter 63]

My little bozo! 🥰

The sea was black and the moon was silver as the Iron Fleet swept down on the prey.

They sighted her in the narrows between the Isle of Cedars and the rugged hills of the Astapori hinterlands, just as the black priest Moqorro had said they would. 

There was no one, even in her order, who had her skill at seeing the secrets half-revealed and half-concealed within the sacred flames. - Melisandre I, ADWD

Let's see.

+1 for Moqorro.

+.+.+

The man spoke no decent tongue but only a guttural Ghiscari, full of growls and hisses, as ugly a language as Victarion Greyjoy had ever heard. Moqorro translated the captain's words into the Common Tongue of Westeros. The war for Meereen was won, the captain claimed; the dragon queen was dead, and a Ghiscari by the name of Hizdak ruled the city now.

Victarion had his tongue torn out for lying. 

Hizdak, lol.

Harsh but fair punishment. You shouldn't lie.

Victarion seems to be trying to emulate Euron throughout this chapter. He's now cutting out tongues.

+.+.+

Daenerys Targaryen was not dead, Moqorro assured him; his red god R'hllor had shown him the queen's face in his sacred fires. 

+2 for Moqorro.

+.+.+

The captain could not abide lies, so he had the Ghiscari captain bound hand and foot and thrown overboard, a sacrifice to the Drowned God. "Your red god will have his due," he promised Moqorro, "but the seas are ruled by the Drowned God."

Only a cultured man would honour the traditions of others.

+.+.+

"There are no gods but R'hllor and the Other, whose name may not be said." The sorcerer priest was garbed in somber black, but for a hint of golden thread at collar, cuffs, and hem. 

Rude.

Be a Victarion, not a Moqorro.

+.+.+

There was no red cloth aboard the Iron Victory, but it was not meet that Moqorro go about in the salt-stained rags he had been wearing when the Vole fished him from the sea, so Victarion had commanded Tom Tidewood to sew new robes for him from whatever was at hand, and had even donated some of his own tunics to the purpose. Of black and gold those were, for the arms of House Greyjoy showed a golden kraken on a black field, and the banners and sails of their ships displayed the same. The crimson-and-scarlet robes of the red priests were alien to the ironborn, but Victarion had hoped his men might accept Moqorro more easily once clad in Greyjoy colors.

Bad guy? Show me a villain who feeds, clothes, and houses a man in need.

Moqorro wearing Greyjoy colours is hilarious. Dam-phair is having a fit somewhere.

+.+.+

He hoped in vain. Clad in black from head to heel, with a mask of red-and-orange flames tattooed across his face, the priest appeared more sinister than ever.

Sometimes the text misleads you, and sinister looking people aren't always what they seem.

This is not one of those times.

+.+.+

But Moqorro knew these strange shores in ways the ironborn did not, and secrets of the dragonkind as well. The Crow's Eye keeps wizards, why shouldn't I? His black sorcerer was more puissant than all of Euron's three, even if you threw them in a pot and boiled them down to one. The Damphair might disapprove, but Aeron and his pieties were far away.

So Victarion closed his burned hand into a mighty fist, and said, "Ghiscari Dawn is no fit name for a ship of the Iron Fleet. For you, wizard, I shall rename her Red God's Wroth."

Such a touching gesture!

More trying to emulate Euron.

+.+.+

The next day a sudden squall descended on them. Moqorro had predicted that as well. 

+3 for Moqorro.

+.+.+

The iron captain had no time to wait for laggards. Not with his bride encircled by her enemies. The most beautiful woman in the world has urgent need of my axe.

Antagonist where? All I see is a prototypical romantic hero.

+.+.+

Besides, Moqorro assured him that the three ships were not lost. Each night, the sorcerer priest would kindle a fire on the forecastle of the Iron Victory and stalk around the flames, chanting prayers. The firelight made his black skin shine like polished onyx, and sometimes Victarion could swear that the flames tattooed on his face were dancing too, twisting and bending, melting into one another, their colors changing with every turn of the priest's head.

When the cliffs of Yaros appeared off their larboard bows, he found his three lost ships waiting for him, just as Moqorro had promised. Victarion gave the priest a golden torque as a reward.

+4 for Moqorro.

The chanting and flames dancing, twisting, and bending is very Mirri Maz Duur.

+.+.+

"The black priest is calling demons down on us," one oarsman was heard to say. When that was reported to Victarion, he had the man scourged until his back was blood from shoulders to buttocks.

Find yourself a man who doesn't stay quiet in the face of racism.

+.+.+

This time it was a Myrish cog named Dove, on her way to Yunkai by way of New Ghis with a cargo of carpets, sweet green wines, and Myrish lace. Her captain owned a Myrish eye that made far-off things look close—two glass lenses in a series of brass tubes, cunningly wrought so that each section slid into the next, until the eye was no longer than a dirk. Victarion claimed that treasure for himself. 

Who wouldn't love a man with such intellectual curiosity?

+.+.+

"Grey skies and strong winds," Moqorro said. "No rain. Behind come the tigers. Ahead awaits your dragon."

Your dragon. Victarion liked the sound of that.

The tigers control Volantis now.

After a century of war, Volantis found herself broken, bankrupt, and depopulated. It was then that the elephants rose up. They have held sway ever since. Some years the tigers elect a triarch, and some years they do not, but never more than one, so the elephants have ruled the city for three hundred years. - Tyrion IV, ADWD

I have a Volantis prediction.

+.+.+

The crew had taken to calling him the Black Flame, a name fastened on him by Steffar Stammerer, who could not say "Moqorro." By any name, the priest had powers. 

"No. Hear me, Daenerys Targaryen. The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal." - Daenerys II, ADWD

It's time to open your heart and let R'hllor in Daenerys.

+.+.+

"The coastline here runs west to east," he told Victarion. "Where it turns north, you will come on two more hares. Swift ones, with many legs."

And so it came to pass. 

+5 for Moqorro.

Calling it now. Melisandre is bush league compared to this.

+.+.+

And like the captain of the Ghiscari Dawn, the captains of the galleys repeated the lie that Daenerys Targaryen was dead.

"Give her a kiss for me in whatever hell you find her," Victarion said. He called for his axe and took their heads off there and then. Afterward he put their crews to death as well, saving only the slaves chained to the oars. He broke their chains himself and told them they were now free men and would have the privilege of rowing for the Iron Fleet, an honor that every boy in the Iron Islands dreamed of growing up. "The dragon queen frees slaves and so do I," he proclaimed.

"No. Your Grace, forgive this one her outburst. Your slave's name is Missandei, but . . ."

"Missandei is no longer a slave. - Daenerys III, ASOS

x

There will be more if we remain. The slaves are weak from the march."

"Freedmen," Dany corrected. "They are slaves no longer." - Daenerys V, ASOS

x

"Your slave Missandei." Jhiqui had a taper in her hand.

"My servant. I have no slaves." Dany did not understand. - Daenerys II, ADWD

x

"How kind of my old friend to help with the digging. And how very unlike him. Is it possible he was given no choice in the matter? No, surely not. You have no slaves in Meereen."

Dany flushed. "Your friend is being paid with food and shelter. - Daenerys III, ADWD

+.+.+

The galleys he renamed Ghost and Shade. "For I mean them to return and haunt these Yunkishmen," he told the dusky woman that night after he had taken his pleasure of her. 

Is that a clue? Vic renaming the ships Ghost and Shade when he might be the walking dead is funny.

+.+.+

He wondered if this was how his brother Aeron felt when the Drowned God spoke to him. He could almost hear the god's voice welling up from the depths of the sea. You shall serve me well, my captain, the waves seemed to say. It was for this I made you.

But he would feed the red god too, Moqorro's fire god. The arm the priest had healed was hideous to look upon, pork crackling from elbow to fingertips. Sometimes when Victarion closed his hand the skin would split and smoke, yet the arm was stronger than it had ever been. "Two gods are with me now," he told the dusky woman. "No foe can stand before two gods." Then he rolled her on her back and took her once again.

I looked into it and the indestructible smoking hand thing is not typically experienced by people who are alive.

Anyway, this is so refreshing coming off an Asha chapter where Stannis is too little of a man to be a multi-faith king like Vicky.

Not only that, Vic is also capable of having sex with a woman.

+.+.+

Now he had a choice to make: should he risk the straits, or take the Iron Fleet around the island? The memory of Fair Isle still rankled in the iron captain's memory. Stannis Baratheon had descended on the Iron Fleet from both north and south whilst they were trapped in the channel between the island and the mainland, dealing Victarion his most crushing defeat. But sailing around Yaros would cost him precious days. With Yunkai so near, shipping in the straits was like to be heavy, but he did not expect to encounter Yunkish warships until they were closer to Meereen.

What would the Crow's Eye do? He brooded on that for a time, then signaled to his captains. "We sail the straits."

Stop asking yourself what Euron would do! Ask yourself what Vicky Godhand would do.

Being trapped at Fair Isle while enemies descend from both sides must be coming up for a reason.

+.+.+

"Where is this Dothraki sea?" he demanded. "I will sail the Iron Fleet across it and find the queen wherever she may be."

The fisherman laughed aloud. "That would be a sight worth seeing. The Dothraki sea is made of grass, fool."

Shut your mouth. Be quiet. Nobody say a thing to me.

+.+.+

He should not have said that. Victarion took him around the throat with his burned hand and lifted him bodily into the air. Slamming him back against the mast, he squeezed till the Yunkishman's face turned as black as the fingers digging into his flesh. The man kicked and writhed for a while, trying fruitlessly to pry loose the captain's grip. "No man calls Victarion Greyjoy a fool and lives to boast of it." When he opened his hand, the man's limp body flopped to the deck. Longwater Pyke and Tom Tidewood chucked it over the rail, another offering to the Drowned God.

Appropriate. That's what should happen to bullies.

+.+.+

"Your Drowned God is a demon," the black priest Moqorro said afterward. "He is no more than a thrall of the Other, the dark god whose name must not be spoken."

"Take care, priest," Victarion warned him. "There are godly men aboard this ship who would tear out your tongue for speaking such blasphemies. Your red god will have his due, I swear it. My word is iron. Ask any of my men."

The black priest bowed his head. "There is no need. The Lord of Light has shown me your worth, lord Captain. Every night in my fires I glimpse the glory that awaits you."

I suspect the priest in talking with tongue firmly planted in cheek.

+.+.+

Those words pleased Victarion Greyjoy mightily, as he told the dusky woman that night. "My brother Balon was a great man," he said, "but I shall do what he could not. The Iron Islands shall be free again, and the Old Way will return. Even Dagon could not do that." Almost a hundred years had passed since Dagon Greyjoy sat the Seastone Chair, but the ironborn still told tales of his raids and battles. In Dagon's day a weak king sat the Iron Throne, his rheumy eyes fixed across the narrow sea where bastards and exiles plotted rebellion. So forth from Pyke Lord Dagon sailed, to make the Sunset Sea his own. "He bearded the lion in his den and tied the direwolf's tail in knots, but even Dagon could not defeat the dragons. But I shall make the dragon queen mine own. She will share my bed and bear me many mighty sons."

This Dagon history lesson sounds a lot like current events.

+.+.+

The sea was green and the sky was grey the morning Grief and Warrior Wench and Victarion's own Iron Victory captured the slaver galley from Yunkai in the waters due north of the Yellow City. In her holds were twenty perfumed boys and four score girls destined for the pleasure houses of Lys. Her crew never thought to find peril so close to their home waters, and the ironborn had little trouble taking her. She was named the Willing Maiden.

Victarion put the slavers to the sword, then sent his men below to unchain the rowers. "You row for me now. Row hard, and you shall prosper." The girls he divided amongst his captains. "The Lyseni would have made whores of you," he told them, "but we have saved you. Now you need only serve one man instead of many. Those who please their captains may be taken as salt wives, an honorable station."

I adore how much he loves clowning his own dumbass fanbase.

+.+.+

The perfumed boys he wrapped in chains and threw into the sea. They were unnatural creatures, and the ship smelled better once cleansed of their presence.

She hates perfume too!

I wonder if Vic knows about Euron, Urrigon, and Dam-phair.

+.+.+

For himself, Victarion claimed the seven choicest girls. One had red-gold hair and freckles on her teats. One shaved herself all over. One was brown-haired and brown-eyed, shy as a mouse. One had the biggest breasts he had ever seen. The fifth was a little thing, with straight black hair and golden skin. Her eyes were the color of amber. The sixth was white as milk, with golden rings through her nipples and her nether lips, the seventh black as a squid's ink. The slavers of Yunkai had trained them in the way of the seven sighs, but that was not why Victarion wanted them. His dusky woman was enough to satisfy his appetites until he could reach Meereen and claim his queen. No man had need of candles when the sun awaited him.

Hey, I think I remember a few examples of candles attempting to replace the sun in this story.

Too bad he's chasing the moon.

+.+.+

The galley he renamed the Slaver's Scream. 

How can you not love this POV?

+.+.+

A great cry went up at his words. The captain answered with a nod, grim-faced, then called for the seven girls he had claimed to be brought on deck, the loveliest of all those found aboard the Willing Maiden. He kissed them each upon the cheeks and told them of the honor that awaited them, though they did not understand his words. Then he had them put aboard the fishing ketch that they had captured, cut her loose, and had her set afire.

"With this gift of innocence and beauty, we honor both the gods," he proclaimed, as the warships of the Iron Fleet rowed past the burning ketch. "Let these girls be reborn in light, undefiled by mortal lust, or let them descend to the Drowned God's watery halls, to feast and dance and laugh until the seas dry up."

Near the end, before the smoking ketch was swallowed by the sea, the cries of the seven sweetlings changed to joyous song, it seemed to Victarion Greyjoy. 

Hard to not be deeply affected by this.

Granting those girls the privilege of entering into those cleansing fires, so their spirits might rise free and pure to ascend into the light. Beautiful.

+.+.+

A great wind came up then, a wind that filled their sails and swept them north and east and north again, toward Meereen and its pyramids of many-colored bricks. On wings of song I fly to you, Daenerys, the iron captain thought.

The man is a poet.

+.+.+

That night, for the first time, he brought forth the dragon horn that the Crow's Eye had found amongst the smoking wastes of great Valyria. A twisted thing it was, six feet long from end to end, gleaming black and banded with red gold and dark Valyrian steel. Euron's hellhorn. Victarion ran his hand along it. The horn was as warm and smooth as the dusky woman's thighs, and so shiny that he could see a twisted likeness of his own features in its depths. Strange sorcerous writings had been cut into the bands that girded it. "Valyrian glyphs," Moqorro called them.

That much Victarion had known. "What do they say?"

"Much and more." The black priest pointed to one golden band. "Here the horn is named. 'I am Dragonbinder,' it says. Have you ever heard it sound?"

"Once." One of his brother's mongrels had sounded the hellhorn at the kingsmoot on Old Wyk. A monster of a man he had been, huge and shaven-headed, with rings of gold and jet and jade around arms thick with muscle, and a great hawk tattooed across his chest. "The sound it made … it burned, somehow. As if my bones were on fire, searing my flesh from within. Those writings glowed red-hot, then white-hot and painful to look upon. It seemed as if the sound would never end. It was like some long scream. A thousand screams, all melted into one."

"And the man who blew the horn, what of him?"

"He died. There were blisters on his lips, after. His bird was bleeding too."

I'm not sure how to expand on these thoughts, but it feels like we're talking about Daenerys.

+.+.+

"A true tale." Moqorro turned the hellhorn, examining the queer letters that crawled across a second of the golden bands. "Here it says, 'No mortal man shall sound me and live.' "

I see loopholes!

No mortal man, but what about a dead man or a woman?

+.+.+

Bitterly Victarion brooded on the treachery of brothers. Euron's gifts are always poisoned. "The Crow's Eye swore this horn would bind dragons to my will. But how will that serve me if the price is death?"

"Your brother did not sound the horn himself. Nor must you." Moqorro pointed to the band of steel. "Here. 'Blood for fire, fire for blood.' Who blows the hellhorn matters not. The dragons will come to the horn's master. You must claim the horn. With blood."

I'm pretty sure Moqorro uses Victarion's blood to claim the horn in TWOW.

They left him one by one. The three thralls, and then Moqorro. Victarion would not let him take the hell-horn.

"I will keep it here with me, until it is needed."

"As you command. Would you have me bleed you?" - Victarion I, TWOW

It's impossible to make sense of any of this when you can't trust a thing Moqorro says or does.

Final thoughts:

Vic finally gets a chapter with his name! Couldn't tell you why.

Remind me to look for evidence of him sleeping or eating in TWOW. Nothing so far.

-> return to menu <-

[mother-rhoyne]

[ladystoneboobs]

an examination of theon greyjoy's feelings about and (implied) relationship with evil uncle euron

Theon searched for his uncle Euron's Silence. Of that lean and terrible red ship he saw no sign, but his father's Great Kraken was there, her bow ornamented with a grey iron ram in the shape of its namesake. [...] It might be only a caution, now that he thought on it. A defensive move, lest the war spill out across the sea. Old men were cautious by nature. His father was old now, and so too his uncle Victarion, who commanded the Iron Fleet. His uncle Euron was a different song, to be sure, but the Silence did not seem to be in port. It's all for the good, Theon told himself. This way, I shall be able to strike all the more quickly. -Theon I, aCoK

the first we read of euron is in theon's first pov as he searched the harbor at lordsport for euron's ship. no reason is given for singling that ship out nor an initial reaction to its absence. later down the page euron is described as different from balon and victarion, with none of an older man's caution to be expected from him. that's why theon thought it for the best that euron's ship was not in port, though at this point it appears his only concern is being the boldest greyjoy around, commanding the fleet all the more quickly for its already being assembled, and not being outshone by euron. the only hint at more is his description of the ship as "terrible".

"You can marry off your sister," Esgred[Asha] observed, "but not your uncles." "My uncles . . ." Theon's claim took precedence over those of his father's three brothers, but the woman had touched on a sore point nonetheless. In the islands it was scarce unheard of for a strong, ambitious uncle to dispossess a weak nephew of his rights, and usually murder him in the bargain. But I am not weak, Theon told himself, and I mean to be stronger yet by the time my father dies. [...] [Asha-as-Esgred, to Theon:] "Euron Croweye has no lack of cunning, though. I've heard men say terrible things of that one." Theon shifted his seat. "My uncle Euron has not been seen in the islands for close on two years. He may be dead." If so, it might be for the best. Lord Balon's eldest brother had never given up the Old Way, even for a day. His Silence, with its black sails and dark red hull, was infamous in every port from Ibben to Asshai, it was said. -Theon II, aCoK

by theon's next chapter, when he and (unknown, to him) asha discuss their greyjoy uncles, theon has learned that euron hasn't been seen in the iron islands for two years. atp, rather than just noting that euron's not at home, theon has decided it's for the best if he's died somewhere and can never return. the word terrible is again used wrt euron and it's also said that his ship is infamous all over the world. euron is the only greyjoy never to have given up the old way in any sense, and the implied danger to theon is that he could also partake in the old tradition of a strong, ambitious uncle murdering his nephew. euron has thus been establishled as a villain, a threat, and possible kinslayer more specifically but we have yet to learn all the other, more unique aspects of his villainy. i think it likely that grrm, with his gardener-writing, had not yet decided that euron was an incestuous sexual predator. the risk of nepoticide is enough to explain theon's nervous shifting at the mention of euron's cunning and the terrible things said of him, but it could also apply to euron's full characterization only revealed years later in aeron's pov, one of those little half-open seeds gardener-grrm could decide to grow later.

[Robb Stark, to his assembled bannermen and his mother:] "Euron Greyjoy is no man's notion of a king, if half of what Theon said of him was true. Theon is the rightful heir, unless he's dead . . . but Victarion commands the Iron Fleet. I can't believe he would remain at Moat Cailin while Euron Crow's Eye holds the Seastone Chair. He has to go back." -Catelyn V, aSoS

our next clue about theon/euron is not from his own pov but in the book between his arcs when he's "offscreen". i'd say the fact that theon had confided to robb at all about euron is significant, let alone that he related enough things about euron for robb to rhetorically dismiss half of what theon told him and still feel confident of ironborn infighting with euron on the throne. (with theon's status unknown and asha absent from the isles too, euron would have a claim to that throne and a better one than victarion regardless as the eldest surviving greyjoy. vic is the dutiful younger brother who wouldn't normally make any power play, so for robb to know that euron's rule would be challenged by his younger brothers shows he does indeed have insider intel wrt euron.)

this accurate read from robb stands in pretty, ahem, stark contrast to everything theon must have told robb and himself about the likelihood of a robb/balon alliance. an impartial observer who knew (as theon did) that balon's first rebellion was about bringing back the old way more than just independance from the iron throne would have known those goals were not in line with the kitn's cause and that alliance was a no-go from the start. we see in the quoted portion of theon i above how he lied to himself about balon becoming a cautious old man and this being his time in the sun, yet it seems euron was the one family member he couldn't lie to himself about. not only did euron make such an impression on him that theon always remembered him very clearly but the effect was such that amid all his hostage time at wf fantasizing about his return home, he felt the need to tell robb the truth about this one scary relative by confiding in him with multiple stories. (though if euron had sexually abused theon, i can't imagine him ever explicitly revealing that to robb or anyone else.)

"My uncle[Victarion] is never coming back," Reek told them[the ironmen Victarion abandoned at Moat Cailin]. "The kingsmoot crowned his brother Euron, and the Crow's Eye has other wars to fight. You think my uncle values you? He doesn't. You are the ones he left behind to die. He scraped you off the same way he scrapes mud off his boots when he wades ashore." -Reek(/Theon) II, aDwD

this is euron's only name-drop in theon's dance pov, significant only in that it shows theon had recent news of his uncles, enough to know that euron dgaf about keeping balon's northern conquests and had instead drawn vic and the other captains far away. which brings me to ...

Crowfood. Theon remembered. An old man, huge and powerful, with a ruddy face and a shaggy white beard. He had been seated on a garron, clad in the pelt of a gigantic snow bear, its head his hood. Under it he wore a stained white leather eye patch that reminded Theon of his uncle Euron. He'd wanted to rip it off Umber's face, to make certain that underneath was only an empty socket, not a black eye shining with malice. Instead he had whimpered [...] -Theon I, tWoW

here, we have theon meeting a non-bolton northman he's known before, no different really from all the non-bolton northmen inside wf or any others he'd met growing up there, none of whom really seemed to scare him as his captors did, yet the mere sight of mors "crowfood" umber's eye patch is enough to freak theon the fuck out, wanting to rip off the eye patch for reassurance that crowfood was just a regular guy. this is the kind of terror we'd expect wrt ramsay, which would make sense in that regard, as ramsay had been his most immediate abuser, torturing theon in every sense for around a year almost right up until the moment of his escape, and ramsay's still right there in wf, so theon had good reason to still fear recapture by him. euron, though? that's an uncle he hadn't seen in over ten years, who theon knew to be far from wf as seen in the above dance quote, so he had no reason to expect to see him again in that part of westeros and one would think he had enough immediate problems not to worry about someone he hadn't seen in so long. you'd think his pre-ned, pre-ramsay childhood with all the greyjoys would feel a lifetime away with all he'd been through since, esp the reekening. but whatever impression euron left on him was still just as clear and fresh as ever, so that anyone with an eye patch could suddenly make him feel fear of an uncle hundreds of miles and a decade removed from him. from this moment i take away two things: 1) theon will survive stannis and have to meet uncle euron again bc otherwise i don't see the point of grrm throwing this in here and 2) it now feels a helluva lot more likely that theon was another csa victim of euron's bc i don't think this kind of sudden fear could be accounted for with just general scariness from euron. feels more like being triggered by a trauma flashback (just as aeron had as soon as he heard that euron had taken balon's throne), doesn't it? and after having been recently sexually abused by ramsay all that time it makes sense that he'd be even more sensitive to reminders of another abuser as soon as he'd finally escaped ramsay, moreso than when he was just nervously shifting as he and asha vaguely talked of euron's terribleness.

after all, theon/aeron are already linked in the feastdance as both are youngest greyjoy siblings who happen to also be victims of abuse who had buried their old selves in a new identity. aeron's old self even sounds a lot like pre-ramsay theon. theon remembered pre-born-again aeron as the "most amiable of his uncles, feckless and quick to laugh, fond of songs, ale, and women", and aeron described his younger self as "a sack of wine with legs. He would sing, he would dance [...] he would jape and jabber and make mock. He played the pipes, he juggled, he rode horses and could drink more than all the Wynches and the Botleys, and half the Harlaws too." doesn't that sound like the ever-smiling and joking unserious theon we first met, fond of wine and womanizing, once a good dancer, and better ahorse than most ironborn? the only part really missing for theon is aeron's ability to always win literal pissing contests. you'd think being sexually abused by two different evildoers (euron and ramsay) would be enough of a parallel, but this winds preview chapter certainly makes it seem like they also shared the specific experience of being abused by euron in childhood too. our poor youngest kraken really did never have a chance, did he?

shoutout to this post detailing the evidence of theon's sa by ramsay for inspiration. ik i'm not the first to suggest abuse by euron too, but thought it useful to make the case by laying out all the relevant quotes as evidence.

[duxbelisarius]

The Dragon has Three Heads or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Believe That Young Griff is the Real Deal

Before going any further, I want to warn anyone reading this analysis that it will contain spoilers for A Dance With Dragons, so proceed at your own risk.

This essay came about from an 'epiphany' I had while reading ADWD on break at work, specifically chapter Daenerys VII. In this chapter, Quentyn Martell and his companions present themselves to Daenerys and offer her a marriage alliance with Dorne. This being the day of her wedding to Hizdahr zo Loraq, Dany refuses and makes note mentally of Quaithe's earlier warning about not trusting "the Sun's Son." The identification seems simple enough, with House Martell's sigil featuring the sun and Quentyn being the son of Doran Martell, Prince of Dorne, but there are serious problems with this conclusion.

The issue with labeling Quentyn Martell the Sun's Son stems from how Dany reaches this conclusion; for starters, this is the original quote given by Quaithe in Daenerys II:

"No. Hear me, Daenerys Targaryen. The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal."

And this is how Dany identifies Quentyn as the Sun's Son in Daenerys VII and VIII:

Something tickled at her memory. "Ser Barristan, what are the arms of House Martell?"

"A sun in splendor, transfixed by a spear."

The sun's son. A shiver went through her. "Shadows and whispers." What else had Quaithe said? The pale mare and the sun's son. There was a lion in it too, and a dragon. Or am I the dragon? "Beware the perfumed seneschal." That she remembered. "Dreams and prophecies. Why must they always be in riddles? I hate this. Oh, leave me, ser. Tomorrow is my wedding day."

...

The pale mare. Daenerys sighed. Quaithe warned me of the pale mare's coming. She told me of the Dornish prince as well, the sun's son. She told me much and more, but all in riddles.

George has talked about the fickle nature of prophecy in the books and publicly, citing the Duke of Somerset's death at the Battle of St. Albans in Shakespeare's Henry VI as an example of why the literal or easiest interpretations are not always the most reliable. While Dany's conclusion that Quentyn is the 'Sun's Son' seems straightforward, she bases it solely on Barristan's description of the Martell arms. Her reasoning is mainly to justify marrying Hizdahr by dismissing the Martell offer, as Dany herself barely remembers Quaithe's warning and bemoans her 'riddles'.

Assuming that the 'Pale Mare' refers to the 'bloody flux' that the Astapori refugees bring to Meereen, and that the Kraken, dark flame, lion, griffon and mummer's dragon refer to Victarion Greyjoy, Moqorro, Tyrion, Connington and Young Griff respectively, the sequence of Quaithe's warning makes no sense with Quentyn as the 'Sun's Son.' At the end of ADWD, Tyrion is outside the walls of Meereen while Victarion and Moqorro are en route with the Iron Fleet, and Connington and Young Griff are in Westeros. If Dany's return to Meereen from the Dothraki Sea is followed by her journeying westwards, then this sequence makes sense. Victarion will likely destroy the Slaver's fleets and is seeking Dany's hand in marriage, while Moqorro is with him for the purpose of acknowledging her as Azor Ahai and encouraging her to free the slaves of Volantis. Given Tyrion's association with Varys, Illyrio, Jorah and now 'Brown Ben Plumm,' and his family's role in Robert's rebellion, it makes sense that he would not immediately seek out Daenerys on her return to Meereen. Connington and Young Griff await her in Westeros, but Quentyn as the 'Sun's Son' precedes all of them, breaking Quaithe's otherwise sensible sequence. If Quentyn were the 'Sun's Son' he could just as easily have been paired with the Kraken, since both are sent by the heads of their houses to offer her an alliance, while Tyrion and Moqorro travel together on the Selaesori Qhoran (the 'Perfumed Seneschal') and Connington and Griff are in league with Varys.

The far greater issue with Dany's interpretation is that we have access to Quentyn's POV, and there is nothing to suggest that he seeks to betray Daenerys. His purpose was to approach Dany with a marriage alliance, to assist her in reclaiming her crown; his party was even sent by Tatters to scope out the situation in Meereen for a possible double-crossing of the Yunkai'i, specifically to aid Dany. The only thing close to untoward that he does is attempt to claim one of her Dragons, and this was a desperation move driven by his insecurities and his fear of returning to his father empty handed, which would mean that his fallen companions died for nothing:

"What name do you think they will give me, should I return to Dorne without Daenerys?" Prince Quentyn asked. "Quentyn the Cautious? Quentyn the Craven? Quentyn the Quail?" (The Discarded Knight, ADWD)

Volantis, Quentyn thought. Then Lys, then home. Back the way I came, empty-handed. Three brave men dead, for what?

...

His father would speak no word of rebuke, Quentyn knew, but the disappointment would be there in his eyes. His sister would be scornful, the Sand Snakes would mock him with smiles sharp as swords, and Lord Yronwood, his second father, who had sent his own son along to keep him safe … (The Spurned Suitor, ADWD)

Disqualifying Quentyn as the Sun's Son leaves us with only three options, of which only one really works. Trystane is the only other son of House Martell aside from Quentyn via Prince Doran, and given his limited roll in the story thus far I think it's safe to cross him off the list. Doran could theoretically work as the 'Sun's son,' as his mother was Princess of Dorne before him; given that Quaithe describes the figures as going to Dany, Doran's limited mobility and poor health would disqualify him. This leaves us with only one 'son of a sun,' that being 'Young Griff,' aka Aegon VI Targaryen, the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Elia Martell, Princess of Dorne.

This association of Aegon with the Martells via his mother fits with the copious amounts of imagery linking him to the Rhoynar and to 'Egg' aka Aegon V of "Dunk and Egg" fame, specifically that character's travels in Dorne. Tyrion finds him living on a pole boat in the Rhoyne River, home of the ancient Rhoynar culture that Dorne descends from. The Shy Maid is operated by Yandry and Ysilla, so-called 'orphans of the Greenblood' which are another allusion to Dunk and Egg's travels on the Greenblood River in Dorne:

A poleboat had taken them down the Greenblood to the Planky Town, where they took passage for Oldtown on the galleas White Lady.

...

When they’d been poling down the Greenblood, the orphan girls had made a game of rubbing Egg’s shaven head for luck. (The Sworn Sword)

In Tyrion IV of ADWD, a massive horned turtle appears in the river by the Shy Maid, an obvious reference to the Rhoynish 'Old Man of the River,':

It was another turtle, a horned turtle of enormous size, its dark green shell mottled with brown and overgrown with water moss and crusty black river molluscs. It raised its head and bellowed, a deep-throated thrumming roar louder than any warhorn that Tyrion had ever heard. “We are blessed,” Ysilla was crying loudly, as tears streamed down her face. “We are blessed, we are blessed.”

Duck was hooting, and Young Griff too. Haldon came out on deck to learn the cause of the commotion . . . but too late. The giant turtle had vanished below the water once again. “What was the cause of all that noise?” the Halfmaester asked.

“A turtle,” said Tyrion. “A turtle bigger than this boat.”

“It was him,” cried Yandry. “The Old Man of the River.”

And why not? Tyrion grinned. Gods and wonders always appear, to attend the birth of kings.

When Tyrion and Haldon visit the Painted Turtle inn to find information about Daenerys' whereabouts, we have an interesting description of the inn from Tyrion:

The ridged shell of some immense turtle hung above its door, painted in garish colors. Inside a hundred dim red candles burned like distant stars. (Tyrion VI, ADWD)

We once more have Rhoynish symbolism in the turtle, while the 'garish colors' are reminiscent of Young Griff's hair, which is dyed blue in the Tyroshi fashion. Tyrion's description of inside the 'Painted Turtle' is one of dim red candles burning like stars, which can be seen as an oblique reference to the red rubies on Rhaegar's black breastplate, thereby associating the red of Targaryen heraldry with the cultural symbols of the Rhoynar.

The 'Dunk and Egg' imagery goes further, with both Egg and Aegon wearing distinctive straw sun hats, and being accompanied by their Hedge Knights from the Stormlands, both of whom have titles derived from their own simplistic personalities (Duncan the Tall, Rolly Duckfield). Moreover, Egg's journeying to Dorne ends up giving him refuge from the Spring Sickness that ravages Westeros, while Aegon's time in Essos serves as a refuge from Robert's spies and the chaos of the War of the Five Kings. While these similarities might be viewed as a doomed attempt by Varys to recreate Egg through Aegon, I think the purpose of these parallels is to establish both princes as following similar trajectories: both are sons of a Targaryen prince (Maekar, Rhaegar) and a Dornish noblewoman (Dyana Dayne, Elia Martell); become King of the Seven Kingdoms through unexpected circumstances: and if George plans to end ADOS with a mini-Dance of the Dragons, I would expect Aegon VI to meet a fiery end like Egg did.

If Young Griff is actually Aegon VI Targaryen as well as the 'Sun's Son,' this leaves the 'mummer's dragon' without any clear identity. Part of this is due to the conviction that Dany's identification of the cloth dragon from the undying visions with a 'mummer's dragon' or puppet dragon must be correct. In truth, there are countless cases from ADWD alone that show us that a mummer's object is not necessarily a puppet, but more broadly means something which is not as it appears:

I know one stands before me now, weeping mummer's tears. The realization made her sad. (Daenerys III, ADWD)

"Not here," warned Gerris, with a mummer's empty smile. "We'll speak of this tonight, when we make camp." (The Windblown, ADWD)

"My lord, I bear you no ill will. The rancor I showed you in the Merman's Court was a mummer's farce put on to please our friends of Frey."

...

I drink with Jared, jape with Symond, promise Rhaegar the hand of my own beloved granddaughter … but never think that means I have forgotten. The north remembers, Lord Davos. The north remembers, and the mummer's farce is almost done. My son is home." (Davos IV, ADWD)

His reign as prince of Winterfell had been a brief one. He had played his part in the mummer's show, giving the feigned Arya to be wed, and now he was of no further use to Roose Bolton. (The Turncloak, ADWD)

Fat Wyman Manderly, Whoresbane Umber, the men of House Hornwood and House Tallhart, the Lockes and Flints and Ryswells, all of them were northmen, sworn to House Stark for generations beyond count. It was the girl who held them here, Lord Eddard's blood, but the girl was just a mummer's ploy, a lamb in a direwolf's skin. So why not send the northmen forth to battle Stannis before the farce unraveled? (A Ghost in Winterfell, ADWD)

Mummer's tears and smiles are obviously false emotions, being affectations put on to hide what someone truly feels. Wyman Manderly is engaged in a mummer's farce wherein he pretends to be loyal to King Tommen and Roose Bolton, but in truth is scheming to restore the Starks to Winterfell and assist Stannis against the Boltons. Roose Bolton, Petyr Baelish and the Crown have in turn engaged in their own mummer's farce by sending Jeyne Poole north to wed Ramsay Snow in the guise of Arya Stark, "a lamb in direwolf's skin." If the 'mummer's dragon' is in fact a dragon that has been made to appear as something else, then Jon Snow more than fits this bill. By birth he should be a Targaryen, having been fathered by Rhaegar Targaryen upon Lyanna Stark; instead, his fortuitous Stark features inherited from his mother, and Ned's claiming Jon as his bastard and raising him amongst his children at Winterfell, has allowed Jon to hide in plain sight from those who would kill him for being Rhaegar's son.

The significance of Dany, Jon and Aegon being the three heads of the dragon is due to their mirroring a less conspicuous triad in George's World: elemental magic and it's connections to the Long Night. We are aware of three forms of elemental magic in the story, being pyromancy, cryomancy and hydromancy. Pyromancy is the most obvious, being the control and use of fire as we see with followers of Rhllor, and also tied to dragons. Cryomancy or ice magic appears in the powers of the Others and in the Wall separating the Seven Kingdoms from the lands beyond. Finally we have hydromancy or water magic, which was used by the Rhoynar against the Valyrian Freedhold and by Nymeria's Rhoynar settlers to support their communities within the deserts of Dorne. Company of the Cat has an excellent video discussing these three 'schools' of magic, but to summarize what she's said: Blue, Red and Green are the colours commonly associated with Ice, Fire and Water/the Sea in ASOIAF; in addition to being featured on the arms of ancient houses such as Massey and Strong, these elements are in turn associated with three magical items in the books. The first, The Horn of Joramun, can raise and lower The Wall (Ice); Dragonbinder, a horn that was likely used alongside similar horns to control the volcanoes of the fourteen flames in Valyria (Fire); and the 'Kraken summoning horn' which is most likely the Hammer of the Waters, since the Hammer raised the seas to swamp the 'Arm of Dorne,' which would have filled the seas fill with corpses of the dead and 'summoned' krakens, which would have fed on the bodies of the drowned.

The Valyrian, Northern and Rhoynish heritage of Dany, Jon and Aegon ties them to these three forms of magic respectively, and by extension to the Long Night. We are given three accounts of the Long Night between ASOIAF and TWOIAF, which I dub the 'western,' 'far eastern' and 'near eastern' versions. The 'western' account concerns the First Men, the Night's Watch, the Last Hero and the Others; the 'far eastern' account covers the 'Jade Compendium' and the Yi Tish account of the Blood Betrayal; and the 'near eastern' or Rhoynar account in which the children of Mother Rhoyne sang a song to return light to the world. Aegon is tied to the Rhoynish account through his mother's heritage, with references to the Rhoynish account in the 'Old Man of the River' appearing in ADWD and Dany's vision of Rhaegar talking about Aegon's 'Song' (that of Ice and Fire):

The Rhoynar tell of a darkness that made the Rhoyne of Essos dwindle and disappear, her waters frozen as far south as the joining of the Selhoru, until a hero convinced the many children of Mother Rhoyne, such as the Crab King and the Old man of the River, to put aside their bickering and join in a secret song that brought back the day. (TWOIAF: Ancient History: The Long Night)

...

“Will you make a song for him?” the woman asked.

“He has a song,” the man replied. “He is the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire.” (Daenerys IV, ACOK)

Jon's connection to the Northern account is obvious given his Stark lineage and service in the Night's Watch, as well as his dreams in ADWD:

Burning shafts hissed upward, trailing tongues of fire. Scarecrow brothers tumbled down, black cloaks ablaze. "Snow," an eagle cried, as foemen scuttled up the ice like spiders. Jon was armored in black ice, but his blade burned red in his fist. As the dead men reached the top of the Wall he sent them down to die again. He slew a greybeard and a beardless boy, a giant, a gaunt man with filed teeth, a girl with thick red hair. Too late he recognized Ygritte. She was gone as quick as she'd appeared.

The world dissolved into a red mist. Jon stabbed and slashed and cut. He hacked down Donal Noye and gutted Deaf Dick Follard. Qhorin Halfhand stumbled to his knees, trying in vain to staunch the flow of blood from his neck. "I am the Lord of Winterfell," Jon screamed. It was Robb before him now, his hair wet with melting snow. Longclaw took his head off. Then a gnarled hand seized Jon roughly by the shoulder. He whirled … (Jon XII, ADWD)

Finally, Dany is directly referred to as Azor Ahai in the books while her visions from Daenerys IX of AGOT connect her bloodline to the Great Empire of the Dawn. The eye colours of the figures she sees match the titles of four of the eight emperors of the GEOTD, Opal, Jade, Tourmaline and Amethyst, with the Bloodstone Emperor killing his sister the Amethyst Empress and causing the Long Night. Azor Ahai and the Bloodstone Emperor are themselves connected, and I recommend David Lightbringer's Nightbringer series and "Azor Ahai the Bad Guy" video for a concise explanation. It's worth noting that David is well within the Faegon Blackfyre camp, but I think his theories here more than fit my own conclusions also.

Aegon being one of the three heads also fits in with the symbolic relationship between water, fire and ice and the green, red and blue colour scheme. As Company of the Cat points out in her video about the magic horns (timestamp 26:52), green is a secondary colour made from a 'cool' and a 'warm' colour, placing it in the middle of the spectrum while red and blue are polar opposites. Similarly, fire can melt ice back into water and water in turn quenches fire, situating Aegon at a middle ground between Jon's ice and Dany's fire. Whereas Jon's only aspect of himself that ties him to House Targaryen is his father and otherwise he is firmly associated with his mother's house, Dany is tied symbolically to her Targaryen identity in the books, being a product of Targaryen incest, the first to hatch dragons in over a century, and her ties to fire through her 'rebirth' on Mirri's pyre under the Red Comet. While Aegon's physical appearance and his father tie him clearly to House Targaryen like Dany, the support of his mother's family alongside his Rhoynar lineage and symbolism place him in a similar situation to Jon, besides their being half-brothers. This also calls to mind the three accounts of the Long Night: if Jon is the Last Hero leading the Night's Watch and Dany is Azor Ahai driving out the darkness with her 'lightbringer' (ie her dragons), Aegon is the unnamed hero who rallied the children of Mother Rhoyne to sing a secret song which brought back the day. To quote alexis_something_rose's essay about Young Griff, "I can wager who will be bickering and who will tell them to set their differences aside and join together in a secret song that will bring back the day."

Whether or not all three or some combination of them will play a decisive role in defeating the Others, or if that will be Bran's part to play, I believe strongly that Dany, Jon and Aegon will be the 'three heads of the dragon.' If 'Young Griff' is truly Sun's Son, Aegon son of Rhaegar, his joining with Dany and Jon represents a unification of the three Dawn Age narratives of the Long Night and it's eventual end. Uniting the icey North, the dragon lord's fire and the songs of Mother Rhoyne would make the endgame a true 'Song of Ice and Fire.'

[dyannawynnedayne]

Which character parallel do you like the best?

Euron and Bran: art by @seaworthit (1, 2)

Propaganda is encouraged!

Euron and Bran

Flying Dreams

“When I was a boy, I dreamt that I could fly,” he announced. “When I woke, I couldn’t … or so the maester said. But what if he lied?” Victarion could smell the sea through the open window, though the room stank of wine and blood and sex. The cold salt air helped to clear his head. “What do you mean?” Euron turned to face him, his bruised blue lips curled in a half smile. “Perhaps we can fly. All of us. How will we ever know unless we leap from some tall tower?” The wind came gusting through the window and stirred his sable cloak. There was something obscene and disturbing about his nakedness. “No man ever truly knows what he can do unless he dares to leap.”

AFFC, The Reaver

“Fly or die!” cried the three-eyed crow as it pecked at him. He wept and pleaded but the crow had no pity. It put out his left eye and then his right, and when he was blind in the dark it pecked at his brow, driving its terrible sharp beak deep into his skull. He screamed until he was certain his lungs must burst. The pain was an axe splitting his head apart, but when the crow wrenched out its beak all slimy with bits of bone and brain, Bran could see again.

ACOK, Bran II

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Jon and Ramsay

Heir After Their Trueborn Brother

“Mother.” There was a sharpness in Robb’s tone. “You forget. My father had four sons.” She had not forgotten; she had not wanted to look at it, yet there it was. “A Snow is not a Stark.” “Jon’s more a Stark than some lordlings from the Vale who have never so much as set eyes on Winterfell.” “If Jon is a brother of the Night’s Watch, sworn to take no wife and hold no lands. Those who take the black serve for life.” “So do the knights of the Kingsguard. That did not stop the Lannisters from stripping the white cloaks from Ser Barristan Selmy and Ser Boros Blount when they had no more use for them. If I send the Watch a hundred men in Jon’s place, I’ll wager they find some way to release him from his vows.” He is set on this. Catelyn knew how stubborn her son could be. “A bastard cannot inherit.” “Not unless he’s legitimized by a royal decree,” said Robb. “There is more precedent for that than for releasing a Sworn Brother from his oath.”… “Jon is the only brother that remains to me. Should I die without issue, I want him to succeed me as King in the North. I had hoped you would support my choice.”

ASOS, Catelyn V

“Ramsay killed him. A sickness of the bowels, Maester Uthor says, but I say poison. In the Vale, Domeric had enjoyed the company of Redfort’s sons. He wanted a brother by his side, so he rode up the Weeping Water to seek my bastard out. I forbade it, but Domeric was a man grown and thought that he knew better than his father. Now his bones lie beneath the Dreadfort with the bones of his brothers, who died still in the cradle, and I am left with Ramsay. Tell me, my lord … if the kinslayer is accursed, what is a father to do when one son slays another?”

ADWD, Reek III

[daenystheedreamer]

there is no cuck chair this is an INVOLVED threesome all partners must engage with each other an equal amount. and its not just two guys ravishing you either, the two guys still have their own interpersonal relationship and WILL make it your problem. condoms and lube provided, but you might still die of murder.

also my bad the last one should say all of the above orgy 😔 MINOR TYPO 🤬

ALSO MY BAD I MEANT WHORESBANE NOT HOARFROST

[aegor-bamfsteel]

“Heirs have the responsibility, second sons have fun” - does it truly suck to be a third son of a noble family then, in Westeros and/or real world medieval Europe?

Some notable third sons in Westeros (not counting the ones who got to inherit based on the death of their elder brothers, such as Jaehaerys I, and not counting those elder of their brothers who died in infancy, such as Oberyn Martell, who is technically a fourth son):

Waymar Royce

Loras Tyrell

Renly Baratheon

Rickon Stark

Benjen Stark

Rhaegel Targaryen

Victarion Greyjoy

Maester Aemon

Archmaester Vaegon “the Dragonless”

Daeron “the Daring”

Joffrey Velaryon

Tygett Lannister

Tornan Peake

Aenys Frey (And other Freys including: Tion, Petyr “Pimple”, Danwell, Jaime, Whalen, Maester Willamen, Waltyr)

As is explicitly pointed out in Waymar’s (“Ser Waymar Royce was the youngest son of an ancient house with too many heirs.” —AGOT Prologue) and Loras’ (“it relieved him of the difficult task of trying to find lands and a bride for a third son, never easy, and doubly difficult in Ser Loras's case.” —ASOS, Sansa VI) cases, as third sons they had little chance to inherit, and little chance of marrying into/conquering lands, thus they joined celibate organizations. Maester Aemon joined another celibate organization, the Citadel, on the orders of his grandfather Dàeron II (who feared too many Maekarspawn running around, I guess), and Archmaester Vaegon was pressured by his father Jaehaerys I after he refused to marry any of his sisters (and probably had a happier ending than any of his siblings, studying in obscurity). Similarly, Benjen Stark and Maester Willamen Frey joined the Night’s Watch or Citadel respectively in order to not require their families to provide for them, or to follow family custom. Then there’s joining a sellsword company like Tornan; the “Second Sons” is named after how many landless younger sons joined (they could also be third sons, or sons of any birth order); similarly, Daemon Targaryen’s army on the Stepstones was partly composed of younger sons.

Those who didn’t join a celibate organization or went abroad usually stayed with their families as household knights, with mixed results of “fun.” Rickon and Renly had to part with them, either because splitting up would be safer or because since his brother was crowned, he got his own castle; they probably had the most fun out of their brothers, either fighting unicorns on Skagos or throwing tourneys in the Reach, but definitely not trained to rule. Joffrey was also kept out of the war due to his age, but that didn’t stop him from trying to protect the Dragonpit. It’s stated that Daeron “the Daring” was more of a follower of his brothers than a leader, and refused to accept the kingship when his brother was incapacitated. Prince Rhaegel was unfit to rule due to mental health issues, what with dancing around the Red Keep naked, but seemed to enjoy himself more than the notoriously joyless Maekar and Aerys. Tygett Lannister, Victarion Greyjoy, and Aenys Frey were fierce warriors and loyal commanders to their brother/father, although sometimes there’s been resentment (and none are dying well, from the pox or from falling into a trap during wartime in addition to probably unknowingly eating his own son, to whatever magical accident Victarion will end in). The other third son Freys range from horrifically murdered (Tion, Petyr) to humiliated (Danwell, Whalen) to children/just unknown, but I’m not sure if that’s due to them being third-born sons or if the author likes to debase Freys in general.

Joining celibate organizations or joining the army was true to life for younger sons in Medieval France, England, and Italy, although as these were Catholic countries, that celibate organization was the Church (that actually meant these sons often had a more scholarly education than their oldest brothers). However, there were third sons that were given land/titles/brides (often heiresses in their own right) by their fathers/brothers, or served their families through commanding armies or as diplomats (though there could be resentment). The amount of “fun” or “suckiness” depended on the situation of the family and character of the son, but he was certainly richer and better educated than most of the country. Though I’ll say that in Westeros, it’s often the first sons who are charismatic but drown themselves in their passions to avoid having to self-reflect/face criticism (Robert, Robb, Tywin), the second sons burdened with grim responsibility/loyalty/duty (Stannis, Ned, Kevan), whereas the third sons can get a little more freedom of expression away from the family (Renly, Rickon, Maester Aemon) (although in case of fourth sons, they may have the more fun and the third born is also somewhat burdened with grim loyalty; see Gerion, young “Egg”, young Aeron). But it’s difficult to try to assign traits based on birth order to all ASOIAF characters due to their different circumstances and personalities.

[lives4lovesworld]

Dragons, their unique and extraordinary bond and why the binder is a red herald.

“If you read Fire and Blood, you’ll know there’s definitely a bond between the dragons and their riders and the dragons will not accept just any rider,” says Martin. “Some people try to take a dragon wind up being eaten or burned to death instead, so the dragons are terribly fussy about who rides them.” - Grrm November 2018

We shall not pretend to any understanding of the bond between dragon and dragonrider; wiser heads have pondered that mystery for centuries. We do know however, that dragons are not horses, to be ridden by any man who throws a saddle on their back. - writings of Gyldayn

Most speculations around dragons, the dragonbinder and any potential riders are blatantly rooted in nonsensical delusion and pure envy of House Targaryen and the power it derived of their dragons, and the deranged need to see the dragons fight and wreak havoc to finally villainize them all once and for all the eyes of the realm as the clowns of this fandom all do in their posts, so their excessive hatred is finally validated by canon. Nowhere is all this more apparent than in the ridiculous popularity of the theories that have Stannis Baratheon, Young Griff, Victarion and Euron Greyjoy become dragon riders, and more specifically all in context as enemies to Daenaerys.

It's truly astonishing what loops people jump through to make these theories appear even the slightest bit feasible;

Even if Stannis Baratheon would survive long enough to set eyes on Dany's dragons and even if the theory in and of itself wouldn't be a pathetic attempt by his delusional stans to still present him as a viable candidate for Azor Ahai Reborn. There was not one recorded incident of a Baratheon riding a dragon, and mind you Orys Baratheon was likely Aegon’s bastard brother yet neither he nor any of his closest descendants have been dragon riders, and each of them had more blood of the dragon than Stannis. The prerequisite of even being one.

Young Griff [or FAegon or Aegon VI] tho the most feasible of all the "candidates" it is ridiculous which lengths the proponents go to, to craft scenarios, where he, always a political enemy of Dany, somehow obtains one of her sons. It's often argue that, regardless of who Young Griff truly is, Targaryen or Blackfyre, due to his blood he must be a dragon rider! An equally bold as unfounded hypothesis: i) the concept that House Blackfyre would have been dragonlords as well had the dragons not be extinct by the time the cadet branch of House Targaryen was founded is purely speculative! Neither House Celtigar nor House Velaryon, two ancient Valyrian House, had been dragonslords. Hell, not even all members of House Targaryen had been. ii) Young Griff surviving long enough to set eyes onto Daenerys's dragons is as hypothetical as Stannis's prior, and given how he is currently risking an all-open war with only 5000 sellswords at his disposal with no prior war experience against the current reign is just as unlikely. iii) However, let's assume Young Griff indeed survives long enough to do so and ends up fighting Daenerys; as already stated dragons aren't mere mounts, they choose their riders and need to bond and for that, they need a considerable amount of time, training is time-consuming as well. So how exactly would Young Griff even get the chance to bond with either Rhaegal or Viserion? In addition, Daenerys's dragons are unique to their ancestors all of them having bonds to her as their cherished mother. Despite what the fandom argues, dragons are not nuclear bombs, they would never bond with someone who would want to severely harm or even kill their mother. Lastly iv) which is purely theoretical but IMO a very solid theory: @luchibelle theorized that Magister Illyiro Mopatis put the eggs into his son's cradle after the Targaryen fashion and hoped they would hatch. The man likely attempted several times to hatch them. In vain, he gifted them to Daenerys as bride's gifts. In all likelihood to make the marriage with Daenerys for Khal Drogo more desirable, for Dany's bride's gifts are his property, which the Magister needed for his scheme of Viserys as the evil invader with his foreign army of savages for his son to defeat as the gallant Aegon VI Targaryen. However, it does further contradict the speculation of Young Griff's potential being able to bond & ride a dragon.

So far Euron and Victarion Greyjoy are the only ones actively perusing Daenerys for her dragons, name and beauty, something none of the other "candidates" do which should at least be the bare basis on these speculations if you want to call them that way. However, the unquestionable fact that the iron borns do not possess a drop of the blood of the dragon should end all speculations then and there. The unfounded idea that Euron possesses unnatural power and/or uses the horn he proclaims is a tool that can subjugate dragons should serve as a substitute for the lack of valyrian is a jump through a loop unparalleled: i) While GRRM can stress as much as he wants that Euron is much more than what he appears to be; a megalomaniac sadistic busy-body. The Forsaken shows that Euron sacrifices humans and uses tortured captive priests to perform their magic FOR him. The power does not come from him, unlike Daenerys and some of the Starks. ii) the unwillingness of this fandom to see Euron's tale of him traveling to Valyria as a lie is on the same level as its unwillingness to see Petyr Baelish's one. Valyria after the doom is hell on earth. GRRM emphasized this more than once in his lore; Princess Aerea Targaryen, Garin the Great. Hell, he even wrote this scene. Yet because some really want to see their super specific unfeasible(!) fever dreams to validate their need to punish Daenerys and House Targaryen and their dragon for being perceived as obstacles to their favorite character's rise to power, Euron Greyjoy, a minor character introduced to us in ADwD, is the first to set foot onto Valyria after more than 400 years. iii) Since we have established the truthfulness of Euron's tale, let's extend the same skepticism to the "Dragonbinder" as well; true dragonbinders were used by pure-blooded Valyrians to tamp even the ill-willed and oldest dragons. In the millennia of wars between the dragonlords of the Freehold and the rest of Essos dozen of such horns must have been lost by riders and found by other folk. If the possession of one paired with enough magical expertise and lust for dragons would been sufficient to make anyone a dragon rider, the Freehold of Valyria would not have been the only civilization to tamp dragons. So why would two Greyjoys make the exception? On top of that, why would Euron let the horn out of his sight and more importantly give it into the custody of his brother he knows has wronged and slighted more than once? And if Euron is indeed an agent of the Others, of Ice GRRM won't have him subjugate one of the embodiments of Fire, which shall be triumphant at the end of the series. Lastly, the speculation of Victarion Greyjoy as a dragon rider is a misunderstanding, likely deliberate, of Moqorro and the dialog between him and Victarion; Moqorro is a red priest sent to Daenerys so she might know she has been identified as Azor Ahai Reborn by his temple. If he is even half as frantically loyal as Melisandre is to Stannis, Moqorro would never actively try to sabotage his Chosen One by helping someone, a non-believer at that, to rob her of her dragons. Creatures that are sacred to the religion of R'hllor. Not to mention who is Victarion to Moqorro? A pillaring slave catcher who worships an agent of the Others for everything that isn't R'hllor.

If speculations around potential dragon riders do not serve to despite Dany, then they are handed out as rewards to favorites. Nevertheless, GRRM has written to many hints for the other characters to become riders, likely Tyrion and Jon Snow, despite it being incredibly repugnant to me for numerous reasons; it has been Daenerys who has to do all the hard work, who figured out how to birth them, how to raise and feed them, how to train them and deal with all the moral dilemmas. No matter what it will always be cheap, offensive and lazy to me that two characters will swoop in, become legendary as as the first dragon riders woth Danya and reap all the glory, and given of which descent they will be, a violation of GRRM own lore and rules of physic. The excuse of 'its the ending of the world' is beneath his talent.

To conclude its despicable how something as unique as the bond between dragons and their riders and the otherworldliness being of the blood grants is cheapened by all these speculations, which are almost exclusively petty fantasies that should be impossible to happen.

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

In this post, I talked a bit about how the removal of magic in GOT destroyed the character of Euron Greyjoy. Now I'm going to talk about how it negatively impacted Daenerys' character.

Magic is fundamental to Dany's storyline, which is why her story is one of the only ones that still has magic in it on the show. However, that magic is drastically reduced, there's now simply hatching the dragons, the calling she feels to do so, and like two visions in the House of the Undying. Meaning, aside from dragon riding, Dany's magic is only in the first two seasons.

I want to talk first about how they reduced her dreams. In AGOT, we have almost a dream per chapter for Dany, each of them pointing to her future as the Mother of Dragons, a dragon rider, and her later story points. In ACOK, her visions in the House of the Undying point to not only her future, but those of other characters (i.e. the Red Wedding, Tyrion, Jon, the Others, etc). ASOS sees the first appearance of Quaithe in Dany's dreams, and in ADWD, Dany dreams in the Dothraki Sea and sees Quaithe a few more times. That's a pretty big difference from the show's portrayal.

The removal of these dreams serve to make Dany seem much more similar to the rest of her family than she really is. It's a way for them to make her seem less remarkable and force their "parallels" with Aerys. In the books, while other Targaryens have dragon dreams, none of them are quite to the same level as Dany, with the exception of maybe Daenys (we don't actually know). She's meant to be set apart, just like the other main five. She, Jon, Bran, Arya, and even Tyrion are meant to have stronger connections to magic than any other main characters.

Jumping back to Quaithe, removing her really shows how little they cared about George's plans for Dany's character. Her connection to the resurgence of magic is touched on in the show, but not to the same extent as it is in the books. Quaithe is constantly telling Dany to go to Assai, one of the magical centers of the world. Obviously there is something important in Asshai that has to do with magic and the dragons. But apparently, D&D decided to fuck around and drop that whole idea, leaving Dany with an easy and pretty boring storyline after Meereen.

Finally, the show removed most of the prophecies. I did cover this partially in the dreams section, but there's more to be said about erasing the prophecies. Mainly the Prince that was Promised/Azor Ahai prophecy. Obviously, in the show, it was decided that the prophecy should be completely thrown aside and Arya should kill the Night King and the War for the Dawn be over in a few hours. This is a gross mishandling of the themes, which makes sense given who the head writers were. Prophecies are a key part of ASOIAF, and the Prince that was Promised/Azor Ahai is definitely the most important. Targaryens throughout history made unwise decisions in the name of the prophecy: Viserys II forced Aegon IV and Naerys to marry, Jaegaerys II forced Aerys and Rhaella to marry, (according to HoTD) Viserys I killed Aemma for a son, and Aegon conquered Westeros. Clearly this is important, writing it out in the name of "subverting expectations" is the dumbest fucking idea ever, right after mad queen Dany.

D&D also wrote out many magical objects that clearly are meant to have importance to the story. The glass candles and the dragon binder are magical objects that will change the course of Dany's life as she knows it. Whether the dragon binder Victarion has will work or not is irrelevant, its very existence could drive Dany off course from Westeros to Asshai. Maester Marwyn is bringing a glass candles to Dany and Quaithe warned her that they are burning again. The magic the glass candles have would have a massive impact on how Dany will proceed. After all, they could allow her to communicate with people in Westeros or Asshai or enhance her dragon dreams. They will also put her in direct conflict with the Citadel, as the Maesters use the glass candles as examples for magic's nonexistence.

Magic is integral to the ASOIAF universe. Removing it makes the story so much more boring and damages or destroys character arcs. Daenerys suffered so much in the adaptation, and one of the greatest blows was the removal of magic in her story. It shows how lazy D&D were, since they couldn't be bothered to figure out the magic system of the world they are adapting. It removes the interesting ideas George came up with, making it into someone's historical fiction smut fic when mixed with the other ideas D&D put in.

[goodqueenaly]

What do you see as the end game for Slaver's Bay? Do you think Dany will return or will we just see the beginnings of the Shavepate's takeover from Barristan's POV (up until his "in their hands, the daggers" moment) and then just wild rumours?

For one, I don't think we're going to be entirely lacking a POV in or around Meereen. While yes, I absolutely believe that Barristan is going to be murdered by the Shavepate/his Brazen Beasts in "Barristan III" TWOW, remember that Tyrion is with the Second Sons, who have (as of "Tyrion II" TWOW) re-declared their allegiance to Daenerys. When (not if) the battle outside Meereen turns to the favor of the pro-Dany forces, Tyrion is going to be part of that victorious side - and with the confusion of post-victory leadership in Meereen (between what I think is coming with the Shavepate's purge of his enemies, the death of Barristan, and the arrival of not just Tyrion (and Jorah) but also Moqorro and, for however long he lasts, Victarion), Tyrion may have the chance he needs to put his intelligence, shrewdness, and leadership experience to use.

As far as Dany goes, I do think she'll come back to Meereen, for the basic fact that her army, and indeed what I'll call for lack of a better term her court/following, is still there. Dany may have realized at the end of ADWD that she was not meant to stay in Meereen, that she was meant to be a queen in Westeros rather than in Slaver's Bay, but as a practical matter she needs more than personal confidence and a single dragon to turn a paper crown into a reality. While I doubt she'll stay for any significant length of time in Meereen - Dany has important business to get to in Volantis and probably Pentos, not to mention the Stepstones and Westeros - I do think she'll come back to gather her forces, set someone as her successor, and bid a permanent farewell to Slaver's Bay.

[visenyaism]

Is there an asoiaf character that has Kenergy to you?

i feel like i did this already? what do you think

important addendums include: arienne martell and arys oakheart, sunfyre and aegon ii targaryen, rohanne webber and dunk, and euron and victarion greyjoy

[thaliajoy-blog]

Potential bonus suits for my tarot project ! (cause yeah I've done like 7 cards till now & this isn't how tarot works I reckon but I am on obsessed mode). Dunno if I'll ever do them but it's out there now.

Bonus Greyjoy suit : Suit of Salt (cause they literally have almost as many povs as the Starks for god's sake)

Ace of Salt : Aeron Greyjoy

King of Salt : Balon Greyjoy

Queen of Salt : Asha Greyjoy

Page of Salt : (Any ideas ?)

Knight of Salt : Victarion Greyjoy

Bonus Targaryen suit : Suit of Blood

Blood Ace : Aegon VII Targaryen, "Young Griff"

Blood King : Aerys II Targaryen

Blood Queen : Rhaella Targaryen

Blood Page : Viserys III Targaryen

Blood Knight : Barristan Selmy/Jorah Mormont ?

Bonus Arryn suit : Suit of Wings

Winged Ace : Harrold Hardyng

Winged King : Jon Arryn

Winged Queen : Lysa Arryn (& Robin Arryn)

Winged Page : Mya Stone

Winged Knight : Yohn Royce/Lyn Corbray ?

Bonus Martell suit : Suit of the Sun

Ace of the Sun : Areoh Hotah

King of the Sun : Doran Martell

Queens of the Sun : the Sand Snakes, Obara, Nymeria & Tyene Sand

Page of the Sun : Quentyn Martell

Knight of the Sun : Gerold Dayne, Darkstar / Arys Oakheart

Here the original post laying out my plan for an Asoiaf tarot deck

[anxiousnerdwritings]

Feel feee to delete this but which of the men in a song of ice and fire/fire and blood would baby trap their darling?

Honestly, I think most of if not all the men would do this to their darling. Some my just come around to it much more later than others, having it as a last resort. In my opinion these are all the ones off the top of my head who would do so without hesitation.

Robert Baratheon (especially in his prime)

Brandon Stark

Brandon ‘The Builder’ Stark

Robb Stark

Theon Greyjoy

Euron Greyjoy

Victarion Greyjoy

Jorah Mormont

Tormund Giantsbane

Edmure Tully

Young Griff

Khal Drogo

Tyrion Lannister

Bronn

Roose Bolton

Ramsay Bolton

Tywin Lannister

Oberyn Martell

Quentyn Martell

Daario Naharis

Daemon Sand

Gerold ‘Darkstar’ Dayne

Mance Rayder

Gregor ‘The Mountain’ Clegane

Rhaegar Targaryen

Aerys Targaryen

Viserys I Targaryen (in his youth)

Viserys II Targaryen

Viserys III Targaryen

Aegon The Conqueror

Aegon II Targaryen

Aegon IV Targaryen

Maegor ‘The Cruel’ Targaryen

Maekar Targaryen

Daeron ‘The Drunken’ Targaryen

Rhaegel Targaryen

Brynden ‘Bloodraven’ Rivers

Aegor ‘Bittersteel’ Rivers

Daemon Blackfyre

Daemon Targaryen

Aemond Targaryen

Daeron ‘The Daring’ Targaryen

Jacaerys Velaryon

Alyn Velaryon

Addam Velaryon

Corlys Velaryon

Aerion ‘Brightflame’ Targaryen

Baelon I Targaryen

Aemon I Targaryen

Gaemon ‘The Glorious’ Targaryen

Orys Baratheon

Lyonel ‘The Laughing Storm’ Baratheon

Bael the Bard

The easier question may probably be who wouldn’t use a child to keep their darling tied down to them but then again when push comes to shove they’d also eventually do so if it meant keeping their darling whatsoever.

[warsofasoiaf]

Quellon really rolled 4 gutter balls with his kids. Balon is a petty traditionalist, Euron is a psychopathic narcissist, Victorian is dumb as a stump, and Aeron is former Drunkard turned religious fanatic. Where did the great reformer go wrong?

If I really knew the answer to that question, I'd have written a final, conclusive book on the nature-nurture debate and either I'd go to sleep on a pile of money given to me by psychologists and parents, or we'd all live in a Minority Report-esque hellscape where bad behavior is predicted via algorithm. He's hardly the only person in Westerosi history to have a terribly disappointing son - just look at Viserys II with his own son.

Balon really seemed to like the idea that he can simply take what he wants. As a young man, he grew greatly in wealth and acclaim by raiding, so it's unsurprising that he gravitates to that as a lifestyle; the fact that the Old Way also tells him he's a superior class of being that deserves to plunder the rest of the world for sex and coin further rationalizes that belief. If Quellon wanted to stop him, he'd have had to keep him busy to raid, but even then, there's always going to be people willing to do anything to make it big, that's why get-rich-quick schemes always find buyers.

Aeron is a drunkard, so if Quellon wanted to stop him, he'd have to straighten him up, disciplining him and instilling a healthy respect for drink. Plenty of people experience religious awakenings in times of great stress to include life-threatening circumstances, such as what happened to Aeron, so I doubt that even if Quellon was alive to handle that, he'd be able. Surviving a life-threatening experience is deeply personal, and people rationalize it and come away from that entirely differently.

Victarion appears to have gravitated to the Old Way out of admiration for Balon and enjoying the venal rewards, so Quellon would have needed to be the dog that puppy Victarion imprinted on, I guess.

Euron though, is a straight-up psychopath. Whether he's Bloodraven's bad seed or just a magically-induced psycho with ubermensch streaks, I don't think there's anything Quellon could have done with that.

Thanks for the question, Anon.

SomethingLikeALawyer, Hand of the King

[istumpysk]

Operation Stumpy Re-Read

TWOW Chapter Order

Barristan I

Victarion I

Tyrion I (summary)

Barristan II (summary)

Tyrion II

Arianne I

Mercy (Arya)

Arianne II

The Forsaken (Aeron Dam-phair)

Theon I

Asha I (fragment)

Alayne I

Only Barristan/Victarion/Tyrion and Theon/Asha are happening in chronological order.

My priority is to get the worst POVs out of the way first, and finish the project with the northern storyline and Sansa. Nothing else matters.

We will begin on Saturday (June 10th).

[jedimaesteryoda]

"Dragon's eggs, from the Shadow Lands beyond Asshai," said Magister Illyrio.

-AGOT, Daenerys II

Illyrio’s wedding gift is the one Daenerys loves most: her three dragon eggs. They hatch into the essential tools that fuel Daenerys’s rise and allow her to rebuild the power of House Targaryen. However, the futures of the dragons within them are seen in the eggs when they are described.

One egg was a deep green, with burnished bronze flecks that came and went depending on how Dany turned it. 

Rhaegal’s egg. Green is a color in opposition to Daenrerys:

The spy Jorah wore a green surcoat with the color of his house

The manticore the Sorrowful tried to use to kill Daenerys was described as a “green scarab”

Mero described as having “pale green eyes” tried to kill Daenerys

The green freshwater pearl sandals sent as a gift "mashed her toes together”

The Green Grace as the Harpy opposes her rule in Meereen

However, bronze could be associated with assistance to Dany:

A bronze medallion was used by Dany to defend herself from Viserys

The chest containing the dragon eggs was bound in bronze

Bronze caps are worn by the Unsullied 

Bronze harpy in Astapor where Daenerys got her Unsullied and on the Great Pyramid of Meereen which Daenerys made into her palace. 

Note, the bronze “came and went depending on how Dany turned it.” Rhaegal may have several riders throughout the series with varying relationships to Daenerys and his relationship to her changing with the rider like potentially her suitor Victarion Greyjoy and/or Brown Ben Plumm to the Greens during the Second Dance of Dragons. 

Another was pale cream streaked with gold. 

Viserion’s egg. Gold is often associated with House Lannister and Tyrion is described as having hair “so blond it seemed white” or “pale blond” hair. The frequent associations of Tyrion with the white dragon cyvasse piece “The white cyvasse dragon ended up at Tyrion's feet” can hint that Tyrion will be Viserion’s rider. 

The last was black, as black as a midnight sea, yet alive with scarlet ripples and swirls. 

Drogon’s egg, which is noted to be the colors of House Targaryen. Drogon’s rider(s) will be Targaryen as Daenerys herself has already mounted him.