#vecna prediction

[henrycreelvecna]

Henry Creel, and his trauma.

How come so many people in this fandom completely ignore the scene where henry is literally being shocked by his peers and "papa". The main excuse for the ignoring is " he killed people " of course it doesn't excuse his actions entirely, but it makes it make sense.

In the boiler room scene, he clearly says to eleven; "you cannot hurt me more than they already have". This implies that its been going on since he was kidnapped by Brenner after the homicide. It's clear that Brenner barely saw Henry as a real human, more a lab rat. He probably treated the multiple children better due to it being more than one.

I totally believe Henry was telling the truth when he said Papa wanted to control. The children were so dehumanized, henry was the only one with a known name before being taken in as 001, then just being known as an orderly. 011 did have a name but she was never told it until she tried to learn about her mother in season 2. Basically these children weren't humans, but numbers.

This is basically dehumanization 101, especially relating to a specific event in the past Im not sure I can say. These children had a set life every single day down to the minute. It was like they were robots. Imagine how this was for a scared 12 year old who was kidnapped and alone.

The kids had no idea there was an outside world, Henry had first hand expirence and had that taken away from him, of course this was still bad for the children but can be REALLY damaging. Especially after planning on getting to your freedom, getting so close, and its taken away from you.

Now, back to the og topic, the shocking scene. Its implied this happened to Henry for TWO DECADES. When the duo was stopped in the hallway by guards, Henry although having powers looked terrified due to the tazer. He was ready to stop, and to leave.

As for the children, I don't have much opinions on their death. I have 3 theories on why henry killed them. 1, He wanted the children to be safe from brenner, but didn't believe in them as much as he did eleven. 2, He was scared of the children, what would it be an 18v1? idk. 3, He was using the power he gained from the gaurds, orderly, and childrens death to give Brenner the most painful death he could give him.

Anyways In conclusion, HENRY HAS TRAUMA. A LOT OF IT. No it does not excuse how he is a literal serial killer, but it helps us understand how and why he is in the first place. Nobody wakes up and decides to kill, they were harmed in some way that they became like that. Almost NOBODY is pure evil. I do not believe any of the people who watched this show even watched it tbh.

[miwiromantics]

They should just defeat vecna in the first two episodes and the rest is just the gays figuring out who they are. Byler and rovickie going on double dates together. Jancy planning for their college lives. Steve moving on and spending time with Dustin. El figuring out who she is with Lucas and Max. Joyce and Hopper planning their wedding. Argyle, Eden and Suzie visiting Hawkins and Dustin officially introducing her as his girlfriend.

That’s what it should be. That’s all. That’s the whole of season 5.

[henry-fox-biggest-stan]

S5 predictions

-At the final episode, the party goes back to the local village with three waterfalls and mileven marry while Will watches sadly (if he’s even alive, perhaps he died fighting Vecna)

-Max comes back to life, but she comes back wrong. Her limbs have been replaced by robot parts by doctors and she’s now a cyborg

-Lucas jokes about her being C-3PO from Star Wars. Max shoots him with her laser arm and he dies

-Dustin starts wearing lipstick and it’s just never acknowledged. It’s red. Very red. Too red.

-Turns out Henry is possessed with an evil spirit sent by the Christian devil because his parents never loved him, and during the final fight El looks at him in the eye and says “hey🥺 this isn’t you🥺” and they hug and he becomes Henry again and he’s the best man at the mileven wedding

-Steve gets his ass beat, again

-Robin falls head over heels for Jonathan, who cheats on Nancy with her. Nancy is so mad than she grabs one of her guns and shoots them both

-Eddie comes back to life but he only speaks French now

-Will develops a crush on Steve and they are endgame

-Robin begins growing pumpkins

-Also Joyce and Robin kiss

-When hopper finds out he’s so mad he handcuffs Robin and refuses to leave her hands free, so she spends half a season completely free and in liberty but handcuffed

-Lucas’ ghost comes back to haunt the party after max killed him but not in a scary way. Neither a sad way. He’s just an inconvenience. He moves papers and cups to other places, he opens the door while Dustin is showering, he tugs at mike’s hair. He doesn’t do anything to Will tho and this pisses everyone off cause that’s just not fair.

-El is actually Henry’s daughter, el’s mom and him hooked up while he was in the lab.

-El grows her hair out and dyes it pink

-Mike grows a mustache

-Will hits the gym and gets jacked

-Max steals Robin’s pumpkins at night to leave them in mike’s room. Mike is so confused each morning, there’s always a new pumpkin.

-El and Steve share an emotional moment with an almost kiss but they are interrupted by Will

-Suzie is Russian and has been on it all along

-Argyle appears during the first episode and he’s driving the van. He’s supposed to drive Jonathan and will somewhere but before he arrives at their house a truck hits him and he goes flying and dies

-Will, despite being endgame with Steve, objects at the mileven wedding, and Nancy just shots him and they continue the wedding like nothing happened

-Robin and Steve get a new job at the arcade. They are eventually fired because they spend their shifts playing, and they are so bad but they keep playing anyway, and eventually they lose all their money and end up with 20k dollars in debt. A s5 subplot is them trying to break into the arcade at night and steal their money back from inside the machines. They fail

-Mr Clarke appears and has an affair with hopper

-Holly gets taken to the upside down cause she doesn’t know how to ride a bike yet, so she just goes walking through the forest and Vecna sees her and just snatches her.

-Surprise surprise, Karen knows how to use a gun and she’s the one to kill the evil spirit possessing Henry by shooting it

-Billy appears and Steve and him have some very homoerotic wrestling before El kills him just because. He was alive for 15 minutes. Also during all this he was a zombie

-Max’s mom actually works for the lab and was brenner’s ex

-The last scene of the whole show is Ted wheeler waking up on his armchair, having dreamt all the story

[queen-of-hawkins-why-ler]

Since Henry has been watching Byler since the beginning, one could argue that all of the intimate, vulnerable scenes we see of them are supposed to be framed through the lens of Vecna spying on them. Just thinking especially about the “we won’t let him” handhold in s2 and their convo on the car in s4, like it just seems like somebody is watching them because of the fourth wall break and camera angle.

Like, we are not the only ones picking up on this romance, Vecna has been observing it alongside us. He knows what a force to be reckoned with they are. He knows how dangerous Mike and his protectiveness are. And I can only feel that he’s going to do whatever he can to rip Byler apart from one another in s5. Like, angst, anger, fighting, miscommunication between them can only serve him in the long run. I wouldn’t be shocked if he tries to out them or make them feel somehow rejected by each other. But basically Vecna’s going to give our boys hell. :)

[nothoughts-onlywomen]

Pink Floyd’s The Wall

This BTS photo has really piqued my interest. Not just because it’s clearly a hint at something for season 5, but also because it happens to be one of my favorite albums ever. So, I thought I’d do a deep dive into how it might factor into the next season.

Full disclaimer: All these ideas I’m about to verbal vomit will make more sense if you watch the film here and/or listen to the album here. I truly recommend you seek it out. Far and away, it’s one of my favorite films/albums, and it’s stood the test of time. In fact, there are certain sequences that may be a little triggering in our current US political climate (I’m thinking of the “In The Flesh/Run Like Hell/Waiting for the Worms” sequence).

War. The Wall is about war; namely, the bitter uselessness of it. The film has a lot of anti-war imagery. Young soldiers wounded and vulnerable, doves exploding into crows, a bloody cross, etc. The film ends with a culturally diverse group of children picking up rubble from the war. There’s a beautiful image where a child pours out a Molotov cocktail. The meaning there is that children are taught to hate and kill, and once they are, the joy of youth is smothered by it. Now I can think of a few scenarios where this is relevant to our crew. This could have something to do with the war against Vecna, in that our kiddos are so young to be fighting this war, and that it will inevitably chip away parts of them. For some, it may take limbs, or even lives. There may also be an assertion that Henry Creel was taught to hate, rather than it being an inevitable part of him. El suggested this at the end of season 4, when she asserts to Vecna that Papa made him a monster. The nuance within the anti-war message of The Wall is that the main character, Pink, lost his father in World War II. Henry Creel’s father went to war (the exact same war, in fact) which is an interesting similarity, but I think greater parallels should be drawn between Pink and Henry Creel in terms of how their relationship with their father (or lack thereof) led to their emotional erosion. And when I’m referring to Henry’s father, I’m not necessarily talking about Victor, though their relationship may have been complex. I’m referring to Dr. Brenner as well. Now the major difference between Pink and Henry - at least, so far - is that Pink is shown to have a soft, gentle side to him. This gets smothered as his emotional wall grows taller. I don’t know if Vecna ever had anything of the sort, but we know that Will is nothing if not gentle. And if they’re going to draw parallels between Will and Henry next season, I have to think there’s some meaning in there somewhere.

Conformity. It should be noted that the film takes place during World War II, so the conformity themes were especially prevalent in those days - the days of Hitler and the Nazi regime. Pink attends a school where the children all wear masks and stand on an assembly line, eventually to be thrown into a meat grinder. All very heavy-handed symbolism, I know. But the idea is that society attempts to suppress individuality and corner the youth into becoming part of the mindless whole. Blessedly, toward the end of the school sequence, the kids all rip off their masks and rebel. Now, in reference to our friends in Hawkins, this could be a nod to how the group has never been afraid to be the “freaks,” and that conformity is meaningless to them. Stranger Things has always reveled in the beauty of being yourself in the face of societal labels. The Wall also utilizes hammers in much of its imagery, which is supposed to symbolize the hammer pounding a nail into submission. With the individual being the nail, and the oppressive whole being the hammer. To me, this hearkens back to the “hive mind” idea. The Mind Flayer operates from this hive mind, and so any deviation from this would be quickly and mightily suppressed. I also addressed the idea of the “hive mind” in my theory about the Wrinkle in Time Easter egg, and how the planet Camazotz adopts this same concept (read here if you feel so inclined). Will Vecna be this deviation? If not, who will? One of the kids? Will Dart break away from an army of demogorgons to save Dustin? I can’t see the Mind Flayer being thrilled about it regardless of how it manifests.

Emotional isolation. Pink undergoes a descent into emotional isolation. The wall itself is symbolic of the emotional wall he builds around his heart, insofar each negative event in his life is “another brick in the wall.” Once his emotional isolation is complete, he becomes callous and disconnected with others. He fantasizes about committing atrocities, even becoming a Hitler-like figure in his imaginings. Such emotional isolation is likely present within Vecna as well, as only someone with a real disconnection from their emotions could kill people in the ways that Vecna has. That scary face on the poster, in fact, is emotion, trying to break free of the wall. A scream of agony from within. Perhaps the Duffers will explore this within Vecna. Perhaps Vecna has some small shred of humanity left that the group will try to capitalize upon. At the climax of The Wall, Pink puts himself on trial in his mind with a judge that is a literal asshole (yes, it’s as batshit as it sounds), and the wall is torn down within him. The album ends with a spoken message that loops into the beginning track, suggesting that the conundrum of emotional wall-building will never end. Perhaps the group will attempt to tear down Vecna’s emotional walls. The Duffers are good enough writers to make us feel at least some empathy for Vecna, if we hadn’t already, and this might just be a continuation of this. There is also the possibility that one of our other kiddos starts to emotionally isolate. It could be any of them: Mike, Will, Lucas, Dustin, El, or Max. I’m less inclined to believe it would be one of the older kids, though they’ve all certainly got their own demons. None of them will become as twisted as Vecna, of course, but I could see them struggling against their own emotional walls. We’ve seen Max do a bit of this already. It would be a real shot to the heart if the Duffers utilized a deeply sad track like “Nobody’s Home” or a wistful, melancholic tune like “Comfortably Numb” to describe Max’s consciousness literally being absent from her at the moment. I think Will is also an ideal candidate for this concept, especially if (as I suggested earlier), we are going to draw similarities between him and Henry Creel. The ending song on the album, “Outside the Wall,” postulates that those who truly love you will walk up and down outside your emotional wall, banging on it, trying to tear it down and thus forge deeper connection. We’ve seen this happen with Max a bit, and I could certainly see it happening with Will, too.

Mental illness. Pink is suggested to have a mental illness. He’s not particularly easy to slap a diagnosis on (though based on the information we do have, I might have put him in the schizoid/schizotypal/schizoaffective territory. Depression with psychotic features at the very least). Mental illness isn’t a topic that heavily explored in Stranger Things, though season 4 definitely had some poignant things to say about depression. But I’m wondering - if they do decide to touch on this somewhat - if this will hint at a deeper dive into Vecna’s psyche. Killing small animals is generally a precursor to actual murder, and this was certainly the case when it came to Henry Creel, but we have yet to really unpack all of this. We’ve gotten hints. Vecna noting that he “never forgets a kill” and “they are always with me” is a very interesting concept I will be curious to learn more about.

I would love to hear any additional thoughts on this.

[michaelinprogress]

St5 THEORY: VECNA/001/HENRY AND WILL

I think Vecna is going to present himself as Henry to Will for the first time they interact/talk face to face.

From this point, Vecna hasn’t even really spoken to Will. Not in a way that actually revealed himself to Will, anyway. He manifested as thoughts in Will’s mind, but Will had no way to know that it was a person who stalked and hunted him down. He thought he was being possessed by creatures, but all this time, it was a man.

Someone just like him.

We already know that El and Will are extremely similar and have insane parallels, and Henry tried to appeal to El with his similarity to her

So I think Henry is going to present himself to Will as human in a vision of some sorts, and force Will to realize just how similar they are. Their empathy, their sensitivity, their jealousy and inner sense of Justice. They just have so much in common. He will try to make Will falter and join his side.

I cannot wait to see them finally meet!!! And have a big show down!!!!

Anyone else have any thoughts on the Will and Vecna meeting scene!?

[byler-alarmist]

Will being paralleled to all the female Vecna targets....Chrissy, Max, Nancy....is so special to me

[lizbetlovesbyler]

how i’m gonna sleep tonight

JUST KIDDING HAHA i’m an a-level student i haven’t slept in about 7 months

[catharusustulatus]

Ross Duffer posted these from set for ST5 today, and my FIRST thought was “wait, they didn’t release the Nike Air Max until 1987.”

So, they either messed up/didn’t care/we’re not supposed to notice (unlikely, costuming is very important) OR it’s 1987 or later (which we already assumed).

When does Steve, in the craziness of the town falling into ruin, have time to buy new shoes? Are they filming a scene from when the town is fine/after they beat Vecna? Are they filming a scene for the end of the show? Because if it’s starting in the middle of where they left off, they have a whole ~year until that shoe drops and a ton of plot to get through. Just thinking…

[sollody]

Just a friendly reminder ...

"I call it ...

... the forever clock ...

... very useful in the apocalypse."

(:

[biigiiiii]

So this:

Leads to this:

Which leads to this:

Which allows vecna to do this:

Right? Right………. So then this:

Leads to this:

Which leads to:

???????????????? 👀👀👀👀👀

Will has had powers.

[magic-of-camelot]

My current prediction is Henry kidnaps Holly and puts her into this recreation of his old childhood house, dresses her up as his sister like a doll in a dollhouse (or a puppet (nudge nudge)), and tries to get her to play along as Alice.

Why would he do that? No idea.

Familiarity?? Wanting to recreate the past?? A do-over in this dream world/alternate reality?? Showing Holly his past life and placing her in Alice's shoes, similar to how he put Nancy in his shoes in her S4 visions (although her outfit didn't change)?? Somehow place Alice's soul into Holly's body (since the people he "kills" never really leave him etc etc) ?? I'm leaning towards this reason.

The list is endless really.

[demadogs]

i dont think its a breakup scene. i think the mlvn breakup will coincide with mike coming out to her so it’ll be MUCH more emotional. tears, hugs, the whole shebang. i think this (if its about their relationship at all) is more similar to jancy’s “are we good?” scene at the end of s4.

[gayofthefae]

There is only one other person El ever had trouble finding like she did Max.

Billy. Season 3 episode 6. She couldn't find Billy. She couldn't find the flayed.

[nothoughts-onlywomen]

oh nancy is going to FUCK VECNA’S SHIT UP once she sees henry talking to holly

[chirpsythismorning]

With Birthdaygate pretty much confirmed, here are two moments from 4x02 Vecna's Curse that hit different...

(1) First we have Jonathan stopping Will as he goes into Rink-O-Mania to tell him something. Will turns around quickly and almost looks, dare I say, hopeful?

But why would that be the case? Unless of course there's something Will's waiting for Jonathan to say, that he hasn't said yet? Happy Birthday perhaps? Surprise Will! We didn't forget your birthday! We're coming in! We have a party planned and everything! Meet you inside! (interesting that there were birthday decorations in there as well...)

Unfortunately, all Jonathan does is tell Will that they'll be back to pick them up at 6:00. And so Will goes from sad, to hopeful, only to go back to looking sad again...

I think a lot of fans attributed Jonathan's concerned looks in this moment as him knowing about Will's feelings for Mike. And I do still think that's present, especially as he's telling Will they'll be there to pick them up later. In that specific moment he sounds sympathetic like Sorry buddy, that sucks.

However, the look Jonathan makes after Will turns away, as Argyle starts driving off, doesn't look like sympathy or pity from someone witnessing unrequited love. It looks like confusion and almost deja vu being experienced by Jonathan himself. As if he's forgetting something, but doesn't know what it is...

(2) Next is at the very end of Will and Mike's fight. Mike sort of echoes the same level of frustration he had during their rain fight, when he said It's not my fault you don't like girls. We know the scenes parallel each other, and how after both of those things are said, there's this silence that takes over, making clear that this is as far as they can go, otherwise they might risk hurting each other beyond fixing. We see both of them make faces of deep emotion here, because they probably are also being reminded of their fight last summer.

And so Will's options here were to, either (A) take it even further and risk hurting Mike more than he's hurting him, or (B) just don't say anything and let the argument end there before it gets beyond repair.

But the thing is, it almost looked like Will was going to say something. He quite literally mouths the word But-- only to cut himself off all together, looking defeated.

Here's what I think. THIS would have been the perfect moment for Will to say, But, you forgot my birthday, Mike. If it was genuinely something as simple as Mike and everyone simply forgetting and needing a reminder, without any supernatural implications involved, I think this would have been the moment to do it.

It would have also mirrored their rain fight even better because it would have been Will saying something and likely walking away, leading to Mike being like OH SHIT I have to fix this! I messed up.

But we all know it's not that simple.

As far as Will knowns, EVERYONE forgot his birthday, not just Mike. And so him calling out Mike here, might have felt slightly unjustified in that it wasn't just him who forgot.

It's almost like they're not the problem here, he is. (WILL POV ANGST)

That's what truly makes the scenes at Rink-O-Mania so heartbreaking. Because it wasn't just about Mike and El ignoring him, it was the fact that it was his literal birthday. All the most important people in his life, who used the literal memory of his birthday to bring him back bc they cared about him so much in the past, have now apparently forgot about him in the present.

Not to mention, the story not blatantly acknowledging his birthday being forgotten in the narrative of s4, means that it was framed this way bc the whole point was they only wanted it to be hinted at in s4, saving it as a surprise revelation in s5.

And so, if Will did say here, but Mike, you forgot my birthday, how would that have impacted the conflict in s4 and Vecna's plan as a whole, specifically for Will? All it would have taken was them connecting the dots after that, figuring out Vecna's plan before he could even reach Will, rendering s5 plotless?...

S5 is likely going to jump right into this, there's too much incriminating evidence about unused footage at the Rink-O-Mania location. It also fits with them not mentioning it in s4 if it's intended to be an early s5 revelation.

TBH with all the storylines going on in s4, them exploring the depths of Will's connection to Vecna just wasn't an option, bc they wouldn't have been able to do it justice. He needs to be front and center for that.

They're clearly saving the best for last...