#vax meta

[sparring-spirals]

Went through my kith and kin tag after that last post and once again lying on my floor thinking about. vex snarling at vax about his judgement being swayed by a pretty face-

(another person vax is brave enough to love, even if its dangerous. looking for the good and the kindness and the humanity among the darkness, trying to bring it forward, let vex experience it, even when it can leave him bleeding)-

and vax snarling at vex about her judgement being swayed by her desperation to be accepted-

(another time vex sees a way to secure safety and security and approval, which is safety and security, in a different form. for her, her and vax and trinket and everything she loves, safe in one place, where they can belong, they can stay)-

and. oogh.

Holding these twins in my hands. squishing them like playdough. one of them fights desperately to find the kindness and good and light even when its a fools errand. leaves himself open and hurt for a little bit of light. if it keeps vex safe, happier. one of them counting and calculating and running and cruel because the world demands it. keeps the counter going and going and does the hard things if it keeps vax whole, and okay. one close range and one long.

they'll hurt each other if it keeps the other whole. they'll gladly get hurt if it keeps the other safe. the world is harsh, and they are surviving. what the fuck. theyre such a fucked up pair. they love each other so much.

[aeruthien]

"When will your time be served? When will your debt be paid?"

Keyleth keeps thinking about Vax being indebted to the Matron. And that makes sense, because it is a way to explain why he left her. If he had no choice, there is no reason to blame him, and instead she can blame the Matron for keeping him away.

Except I don't think Vax is still indebted to the Matron, at least not in the way that Keyleth is implying. Vax wilfully followed his God. He wilfully upheld the things the Matron stands for - one of them accepting death as part of life, even his own.

How can Vax allow himself to be saved? How can he do that and not revoke anything he has learned to accept through worshipping the Matron?

Keyleth has to accept that it was Vax's choice. That is wasn't the Matron who killed him, but Vecna, and that Vax was not willing to be resurrected.

So she can finally be angry with Vax. So she can finally be angry with the situation. And so she can finally start to heal.

[dandelionjack]

> new series release (space babies) coincided with the uk seeing the northern lights for the first time in years

> the devil’s chord coincided with paul mccartney’s long-missing hofner bass guitar being found, by a doctor who fan no less

> boom coincided with an actual meteor crash

> 73 yards is coinciding with a rise in bizarre supposedly-occult animal sacrifice rituals in britain (the folk horror part) and rishi sunak finally calling a general election (the political drama part)

> hypothesis: russell t davies has somehow managed to tune in to the universe’s divine frequency ??

> conclusion: messing with the forces of fate, cause&effect and coincidence, even if it’s for the pop culture franchise you’re showrunning, actually turns it into an egregore, but only if it’s been going for long enough (sixty fucking years to the dot) and watched by enough people (tens of millions). which it has

> ergo, postscriptum: television magick is real and is being unintentionally performed by the creators + audience of the world’s silliest science fiction show

> /jk. unless?

[parisoonic]

i am not immune to a meme

[your-enby-antihero]

Posted a meme just now but also my personal thoughts on vax and his relationship with coming back and his relationship with the matron.

When I think about them as a god and as a champion there is something so terribly tragic about Vax and the Matron. Both so deeply in love with the people they cared about in life and both so duty bound to safeguard the souls of the people of Exandria.

The Matron giving Vax one night to pretend like the world is fine and nothing bad could have ever happened to him or his loved ones, that nothing was ever scarified for love. She can watch him hug little Gwen and look at Vax Jr/Freddy with big adoring eyes and smile at the Twins seeing a mirror of his beloved sister and himself in both Wolfe and Leona and seeing the little Vesper he saw as a baby as a beautiful grown woman. The Matron can watch for one night and think about the god- no the person that she loved that gave everything (including their duty and family) to her because they thought the earth and the universe about her, and maybe she can think about what ifs about her life with them. She can picture what their face looked like and how their hands felt in hers.

Maybe just for tonight the Matron and her champion can surrender duty and obligation and loyalty and see their loved ones before the world crumbles before their very eyes.

[quinn-of-aebradore]

Something I think about a lot in regards to Vax’s deal with the Raven Queen is that Vox Machina could have brought him back from being Disintegrated. They talked about it at length before they went to sleep that night; Scanlan could’ve used Wish to turn a large enough creature (they joked about using Trinket) into enough diamonds for Pike to cast True Resurrection and bring Vax back even though his body had been destroyed. They just couldn’t do it right away. Bringing him back was well within their powers, they just needed time.

But then the Raven Queen swept in and made her offer to Vax; die now or die later to serve as my Champion in exchange for me bringing you back right away.

This isn’t to discount the fact that Vax made his choice when it came to serving the Raven Queen; I wholeheartedly agree that that was his own choice, not a debt like Keyleth believes it to be. But I do wonder, sometimes, if his answer would’ve been different if he knew what his family was planning. And I wonder too if remembering that plan that would’ve worked given time fuels Vex and Keyleth’s bitterness towards the Raven Queen, on top of everything else.



[jibril-thelibraryangel]

I just had a realization, Vax repeatedly coming back and not letting Keyleth truly move on…. It’s exactly what he did to Gilmore in campaign 1 when he started seeing Keyleth.

How he told him he was in love with someone else and then immediately kiss him

How after every mission he kept coming back to him to repeatedly tell him he couldn’t be with him but that he still love him

How he didn’t hesitated to follow Gilmore into a dark corner of a castle wearing nothing but a bathrobe he gave him

He might now be an immortal demigod champion of the Raven Queen but deep down he’s still the same scare little elf boy starve for love and unable ever let go.

[mareastrorum]

I’ve been working off and on with a longer post about villains and their roles in a story, but in light of the latest episode, one part seems especially relevant:

Villains and antagonists are different roles in a narrative. Some characters overlap, but they aren’t the same thing. A villain represents the wrong conclusion of something; they are the narrative’s spotlight on a destructive, immoral, or self-defeating way of handling a perceived problem. They aren’t necessarily opponents. In comparison, an antagonist is an obstacle for protagonists, whether they are right or wrong. If the story doesn’t dig into those issues, then that character is likely just an antagonist and shouldn’t be expected to carry much narrative weight. In narratives like an improv D&D actual play show, there’s a Schrodinger’s villain aspect going on here because these roles depend on the choices of multiple participants, so we can’t really judge except in hindsight.

That said, Vox Machina wasn’t going to fight against villains in episodes 113 and 114 because their story within the C3 narrative didn’t need a villain. VM wasn’t here for some overarching narrative conclusion to occur during their appearance. They were here to save Vax, break the bridge, and help prevent the end of the world. C3 isn’t their story; this side story is like the EXU breakaways. Every VM antagonist was someone we hadn’t really seen before and didn’t know much of anything about because making them face villains wouldn’t have made sense. They’re not here to face the narrative questions of C3.

I’ve had the impression that the story purpose to include VM and the MN is that they will be contrasts for the motivations and decisions that Bell’s Hells are going to make for the finale. However, because that is my understanding of their purpose, I don’t expect either of those teams to face any villains. They’re going to face antagonists. Maybe there will be some minor comparisons between the Weave Mind and Cognouza or the Cerberus Assembly, but I don’t anticipate those will be more than passing statements. It likely won’t be the focus of the interaction and the players probably won’t dig deep on it. The parties simply don’t have a reason to care why their opponents are doing this, there isn’t any motivation for them to be invested in correcting any wrong conclusions, and the players probably have character stuff they’d rather focus on.

Then, at the end, we’re going to see Bell’s Hells deal with the story’s actual villains: Ludinus Da’leth, Liliana Temult, and the other exaltants of the Ruby Vanguard. From Matt’s perspective as the DM, the villains are on the wrong path. Does Bell’s Hells agree? What are they going to do about it? Are they going to be heroic like VM, sacrificing their own wants and desires for a greater good, even if they take small moments for themselves? Or are they more like MN, who are like, fuck, no one else is gonna do this, and we don’t want the world to end, and apparently we’re experts on psychic bullshit, so we’re here killing some jackass I guess? Or something else?

Not every conflict within a story needs a villain. Sometimes it’s just a bunch of mean assholes so that the drama can focus on the protagonists and their hangups.

[somewhatsentientspellbook]

Suppose Predathos is a hunter, a true predator, and the gods are its natural prey. In that case, a few things may be happening behind the scenes.

In nature, predators lean towards targeting three kinds of prey: the old, the young, and the infirm. But who among the gods would fit any of these categories?

Well, for one, The Knowing Mistress. She's still in hiding, recovering from wounds received during the Calamity. And if her chosen physical form is anything to go by, she could very well be the eldest member of the pantheon.

But who is in charge of her protection? Who is hiding her from her enemies? Who has made it their duty to shield her from further harm?

The Dawnfather.

The Dawnfather, who's scrambling to consolidate as much power as possible. The Dawnfather, who's fighting tooth and nail and doing whatever is necessary to keep a foothold in Exandria.

Sure, he could be doing it for selfish reasons. But this is the god who saw Ioun sacrifice herself so that he could defeat Tharizdun. He has made her safety one of his top priorities. Pelor refused to entertain Deanna's question of whether the gods were worth defending - perhaps because it was not only an insult to him, but an insult to Ioun.

If Predathos is unleashed on them all? She will be the first to be led to the gallows.

And The Dawnfather will do anything to ensure her survival.

[demigoddessqueens]

I always wondered why Vax calls his sister by her full name a lot but she never calls him by his full name

I think that’s just his moniker, like his “extra” step to be more caring to the ones he loves

Canonically he is the one who gives everyone their nicknames but Vex is his twin, his literal other half and extension of their mother whom they love and avenge.

[blorbologist]

Yawns, g'morning.

I'm thinking about Vaxleth and episode 51, as. Most of us are, really. Holy shit.

And I think Vax's divine nature played a role in how Ludinus was able to set and bait this trap. I don't think we'd have gotten this outcome if Vax was still a mortal Champion, like his sister. Furthermore, Keyleth’s position as Voice of the Tempest was also critical here.

Let me explain: let's say some other half of a ship could have fulfilled this orb critera. If we pretend that any Champion could do (I think they needed the divine aspect of Vax's unlife but play along here), why not bait the trap for Vex, or Pike, or Scanlan, or Yasha?

Beyond the 'Vax is practically an angel now and has orb properties' angle, I think part of it is the sheer... everything that is mortal. If Percy was captured Vex would have any number of solutions - send Trinket in, attack at range, Rogue it up, or do the sensible thing and bring in friends. The living are variable, you can't count on them to behave as you need.

Ludinus loathes gods and their servants: of course he'd expect them to be predictable - and he'd be right! Vax is not all Vax anymore (see Dalen's Closet and Tal’Dorei Reborn), he's a deathless shepherd and servant of the Raven Queen. Why would he think this through? He has no life to lose, only Keyleth’s to save. You don’t need to consider how to use a shield, you just do. People shape their plans around the steady expectations of gods, their almost immutable domains, and Vax is divine enough for that to apply to him. They'd know he would behave exactly as he did. It could be argued living!Vax would as well, and there are several songs and historical records about him, so worst came to worst Ludinus could hope that this is maintained. But that's an uncertainty, and not fitting for a centuries-long plan.

And now the second part: it had to be Keyleth. They couldn't have used Vex to draw him out, I don’t think, as much as it pains me. Either the story of Dalen's Closet was limited to the guests and any lil kids who heard the Ballad of Derrig or it proves the Champion cannot willingly approach his sister. It took a Wish for that.

Vex has had five kids, spent thirty years protecting Whitestone, and has her fingers in the financial goings on of all Tal’Dorei. By no means does she have a small impact on the world: her smallest taxation decisions could mean poverty or wealth for thousands! But many of her biggest impacts on the future, on destiny, have already come to pass. Her adventures in Vox Machina, the children she bore, the decades of decisions she's already made (I doubt she'd be on the council for even a few years without changing much of her sphere to her liking.)

Keyleth is the Voice of the Tempest. She will, hopefully, live almost two thousand years. Imagine all the lives she will impact in that time! Directly! The Matron must be so familiar with her strand of fate because it touches so many, many others!

Even if Vax, somehow, did not remember her. Even if he was a shell of himself. This is someone the Matron cannot let die before her time (hopefully a thousand plus years from now). This is one person she would have to bend the rules for and see saved, and there's just the man for the job. She would not allow intervention for Vex, or Percy, or those nieces and nephews Vax surely watches. Not Velora, not Scanlan, not Gilmore. Keyleth, with centuries of work to do in this world, with generations to guide, is too valuable.

What I'm saying is... literally no other ship could have pulled this off. None. This was built for Vaxleth, from its very bones. You could have, say, an AU where Vex is the Champion of Ravens (wink), and this would not be certain enough for Ludinus to bank on it. Very likely, but not assured (the Matron could refuse to intervene, or they could intervene in a less 'take me instead you lil red-storm shit' way, etc.).

Evil plans bank on the inevitable. Gravity, greed, time. Their love is inevitable, a law of nature.

It could not have been anyone else

[astralleywright]

How do you feel about Orym's deal with Morri?

There was something kind of funny about Liam getting increasingly obvious - 'ORYM HAS DARK VINES IN HIS VEINS. YOU CAN ALL SEE THIS.' and it still going unacknowledged, but now it just feels like a damp squib. (to me at least)

anon i had no fucking idea what a damp squib was. i thought you mispelled squid. it makes perfect sense now that i've looked it up-you damn british-and i agree but i was SO confused about what squids had to do with any of this

anyways, onto the actual answer-yeah. it's a shame, because its one of the most interesting decisions Orym has made, and maybe the most interesting one that has managed to stick around and inform the character, but. it's been treated so underwhelmingly so far that its hard not to think about it as such.

and i don't blame the other hells at all, really. they were on the moon! and then FCG died and who knew if Orym's deal was relevant any longer! one of their own spontaneously learning to teleport is just an average tuesday for them! (as i've joked before, they might just think its ashari shit! [FCG voice] he's doing it! his aramante!)

as someone who's been playing a similarly reticent and repressed character for the last year and a half in a weekly COfD game, one thing i quickly learned is that if you sit back and wait for the other pcs to ask, you might be waiting a really long time. if you're waiting for the other pcs not just to ask but to push and prod over your continued avoidance, you might be waiting forever. the other players are fallible, and probably don't know your character as well as you, and have their own characters as well as a billion other things to focus on. they may be too wrapped up in their own problems or the problems of the pcs who already shared to (or might simply be playing a character that would not) ask about yours.

take the confession during swordgate: it was in the middle of a tense situation where one of the party members (Laudna) was in clear emotional distress, two of them (Imogen and Ashton) were completely focused on her, and two of them (Dorian and Braius) didn't know what Orym even meant by it or that it was a secret up to that point. that left Fearne and Chetney, and Chetney may or may not have been asleep at the time. so that leaves Fearne. she clearly clocked it and has the most reason to care, but Fearne is honestly even more emotionally repressed and avoidant than Orym, and with all due respect to Ashley, she is not who i would rely on for "initiating rp conversations" and "remembering things."

(Also Fearne tried to check on Orym earlier that day and this was his response, so like.)

TTRPGS are collaborative, yeah, but i would argue that part of that is not leaving the responsibility of your own character’s development largely to the other players. Or if you do, accepting that you might be playing a character whose vivid inner life remains entirely hidden, and also that that might not be as interesting to the other players as the things they can readily interact with. Which makes it less likely for them to follow up on it, and so on, until "sold the rest of my life to a hag to protect everyone" kind of feels like a damp squib.

[iamindifferenttolamp]

Just watched the 2016 critmas and when the "what does vm mean to you" fan montage ended and they cut to show the cast had sat there and watched it too? There was no need to do that to Liam

[utilitycaster]

I think the reason people are often really obsessed with talking about Keyleth's rage is that it never came to fruition. Marisha said after the fact that she considered taking barbarian levels, both because Keyleth was frustrated and upset and because of her respect for Grog, but she ultimately didn't - and in making that choice, was able to achieve those highest druid levels and become the force of nature she is. So it makes it really easy to say "oh, if only Keyleth had done this! I wish she explored her rage more!" when you don't have to actually deal with a depiction of Keyleth who is unkind or overly violent or morally gray, nor one who had to make a huge trade-off to indulge that anger.

[druidposting]

Im sorry but the whiplash Liam must have felt between seeing his beloved baby boy that he thought would never ever return after the conclusion of Dalen’s Closet, and then instantly getting collapsed into a micro ball to be used in the god-killer machine

[hypnothesis-au]

Part 6 >Part 7 Part 8