#uncle diomedes

[tootoonz]

Ya’ll asked for some more Uncle Diomedes and ya’ll shall receive >:))

[smokey07]

Talked about Agamemnon and older sibling’s role the other day, so I just finish the whole spiel with younger siblings too, namely Menelaus and Paris.

Both of them are Helen’s husbands, sons of mighty kings and brothers of powerful men. A lot of things, which were not their birthright, were granted to them,e.g the throne of Sparta for Menelaus (by marrying Helen), and Helen herself for Paris. They’re both somewhat pathetic in people’s eyes, especially when compared to their brothers.

But the difference is, Menelaus is willing to step out of the shadow, while Paris comfortably stays in it.

Menelaus in Iliad was active in combat. He agreed to settle scores one on one with Paris. He protected and retrieved the corpse of Patroclus, and volunteered for the night raid, and he had his own voice so to say. He used what was granted and built up an identity for himself. Among the kings and warriors, he was still average at best, but his enthusiasm was very noticeable.

Paris, not so much. When battling with Menelaus, his body armor was borrowed from one of his brothers. Even after being rescued from being killed, he stayed put in the room with Helen, letting his own brothers fight for his behalf as the oath was broken, until Hector dragged him out again.

Younger siblings are raised within the shadow of their older family members, but it’s also their choice to either step out of it or stay. It’s also ironic that Hector actively tried to force Paris to stand up and fight for himself, while Agamemnon tried his best to not let Menelaus loose and run around trying to unalive himself in the process.

[gotstabbedbyapen]

I just realized Apollo and Hyacinthus are also second cousins wtf...

Basically:

Gaia → Phoebe → Leto → Apollo

Gaia → Mnemosyne → Clio → Hyacinthus

[ilions-end]

god the way everyone in mythology turn out to be more related than i thought. NIOBE WAS PELOPS' SISTER??

which means achilles to priam is like "so i have this boss, right? and his great aunt, alllll her kids were killed by the gods, and she still fed herself. i've killed WAY fewer of your kids than that, and you think you're doing WORSE than agamemnon's great aunt? come on"

[le-chevalier-au-lion]

yes the house of atreus is fucked (like, cesspit of curses with multiple instances of rape against family members, incest, kin-slaying, cannibalism and knowing your siblings' and/or cousins' spouses carnally and multiple cousin marriages) and agamenon and menelaus carry like, bucketloads of bagage. but

what the fuck is going on with diomedes' family

[laritamiauu]

HEAR ME OUT-

POST 600 STRIKE THOUGHTS

kay just thought about something real quick

so after Odysseus stabs the shit out of Poseidon, he leaves him there laying in his own blood and goes home, but our guy HERMES was watching, understandably very scared just waits till he leaves to help his uncle.

he called Apollo for help since (correct me if im wrong) i headcanon that he is one of the few who can heal gods (i hc that he healed Ares when he got injured by Diomedes in troy) so Apollo came and was like WHAT THE HELL HAPPEND and Hermes was like 😰 and Poseidon was like 🧀

and that's it, i haven't thought anything else past that lol, maybe ill do a lil comic for this idea

my interpretation of Hermes is that he gets along with all the gods, since his job kinda depends on it, and he is also a great guy so it would be very nice of him to help his uncle Poseidon. He truly has no enemies

[dootznbootz]

To add to that... Telemachus as Hiccup and seeing this romantic and loving side of his parents for the first time like Hiccup does

And Athena as Gobber >:) because that's funny and she's OdyPen's #1 shipper.

hey. hey. odypen but it's "for the dancing and the dreaming". hey.

[hunterofartemis7]

AU where Athena adopts both Odysseus and Diomedes.

Athena: *flies back to Olympus after snatching up Diomedes after his father died (or whatever happened to him. Something with cannibalism)*

Diomedes: *6 years old clinging to Athena for dear life*

Athena; *lands in her room* Odysseus! I’m back!

Odysseus: *6-7 years old popping out from under the bed* mama! *runs over and hugs her leg*

Athena: *sets Diomedes and ruffles Odys hair* Odysseus this is Diomedes, he’s going to be your new brother

Diomedes: *hiding behind Athena, small wave*

Odysseus: hi! Wanna see where my uncle hides all the good snacks?

Diomedes:….*nods*

Odysseus: *grabs his hand and drags him to Hermes place*

Athena:….well that went better than expected

[deadbaguette]

Crack AU treated seriously: Diomdes goes to Ithaca with a twist

So this would generally be your typical Diomedes going to Ithaca AU. Presumably after getting exiled (? Is there a better word for it?), instead of going to modern day Italy he goes to Ithaca under the impression that he’ll see Odysseus there. But, of course he doesn’t because The Odyssey is happening. The twist that makes NO SENSE and is just purely my want to see my platonic rarepair happen (Telemachus and Neoptolemus/Pyrrhus), and the twist is: for whatever reason, Neo is there with Diomedes. Don’t ask why because I could not explain to you a good reason to make this happen lmfao

Story elaborated below but it’s a little long be warned

I like the dynamic of Neoptolemus and Diomedes, mostly because in so many ways as soldiers Diomedes foils/contrasts Achilles but in so many ways parallels his son. Diomedes gets on begrudgingly with Neo, and I could go on a whole other rant on a different post about some fake dynamics/scenarios for just them, but the main point in this post is that Neo somehow SOMEHOW tags along with Diomedes. They reach Ithaca together and meet Penelope and Telemachus.

They greet Diomedes and Pyrrhus with good courtesy, but the elephant in the room of “hold on where tf is your husband??? he was so eager to go back to you guys???” is very present. One way or another Penelope explains the situation, that being Odysseus is absent/mia (much to his own dismay) and the suitors all trying to wed Penelope. Diomedes is sad obv (I’m not gonna go super big into the angst right now) but he tries to brainstorm with Penelope on solutions for her predicament. Since Odysseus was his closest friend (more than friend for me personally but u can interpret it as platonic if u want) and he knows that Odysseus would want what’s best for his wife and son, they think of a solution that can the guarantee of their safety as of now until they hear news of Odysseus. That solution is fake marriage bcs I am a bit of a sucker for that troupe.

But back to Neoptolemus because he’s here too, I want him to bond with Telemachus what with their dads not being here (one’s dead one’s absent). Neo is like way stronger than Telemachus so at first he thinks he’s a bit of a wimp (keep in mind they’re like both teenagers, Neo’s life was just kinda fucked up), but over time they get along better. Pyrrhus’ relationship with Odysseus is a little complicated, so while Penelope and Diomedes might share all the good stories/parts of Odysseus with, Pyrrhus got off to a slightly rocky start with him lol. What with Odysseus taking him away from his mom and basically all the war shenanigans (war crimes), Telemachus for the first time has a whole and humanized version of his dad. It’s more than what the suitors have said out of malice and jealousy, the things Neo has told him have opened up the trickery/cunning side of Odysseus more than he’d known before. He’s jealous that it seems like everyone knows more about his dad than him, but he’s grateful to have someone his age who would view Odysseus more like he would: an annoying dad/uncle??? (Neo vehemently objects to this, and Odysseus would too. “You’re not my fucking dad!!!” “Holy shit thank the GODS for that!!!”)

All in all, happy family. Odysseus returns home to Penelope and Telemachus, and now two surprise guests too. Telemachus has like 3 kinda parents now (Diomedes might be more like an uncle) and a kinda brother/friend/??? I love my little delusional found family. Odysseus is more than a little surprised, considering this IS Neoptolemus. Kid did a 180° in terms of personality in Troy and then ANOTHER 180° somewhere on Ithaca at some point. Or maybe more like a 90° turn in terms of personality, I imagine Telemachus is the most sane of the family and it is much to his dismay.

And when they all eventually die (Diomedes won’t ascend to godhood here I want him to be in the underworld with the rest of the fam) they’ll live happily in the underworld and Pyrrhus can catch up with his dad and mom.

[wolfythewitch]

Obsessed with BkXXI:383-525 of the iliad actually. This is after Achilles fights a river (and LOSES) before getting rescued by some gods. Then up on Olympus we have a brief little intermission. The girls are fighting

Ares challenges Athena, calling her a gadfly and saying she'll pay for enabling Diomedes stabbing him a few books back. He goes and stabs her shield, and she steps back and knocks him out with a stone. Then she laughs and gloats over his vaguely unconscious body, laughing over how his mom isn't even on his side. Youch. If I were ares I'd just die tbh

THEN. WHILE SHE ISN'T LOOKING. Aphrodite helps ares up and they try to sneak off, but Hera snitches on them both and sics Athena on them. That's so sad actually. Imagine your own mom sending her stepdaughter to body you and your girlfriend. Athena strikes Aphrodite and both her and ares fall to a heap on the ground. Athena continues gloating.

Poseidon sees this and feels left out somehow. My guy turns to his nephew and tries to goad him into fighting, even offering Apollo the first punch because he's older and more experienced. How shameful would it be to go back home without fighting with your nephew. Truly a disgrace. He's me fr. the girls are fighting and so must i. Apollo, smartly, declines this, saying that he'd be insane to fight his uncle over some mortals' quarrel.

And then Artemis calls him a pussy. Calls him spineless. Bitch why are you carrying a bow if you won't even fight. Reveals that he's boasted about beating Poseidon before. This is so sad, this is worse than my family reunions. Apollo doesn't respond but HERA on the other hand.

SHE TAKES ARTEMIS' BOW AND QUIVER AND BEATS HER UP WITH IT?? JUST ABSOLUTELY WHALES ON HER UNTIL SHE STARTS SOBBING AND RUNS AWAY? She leaves her weapons behind, and Hermes sees this. He tells Artemis' mother Leto that he has no quarrel with her, not wanting to get in trouble with Zeus. He offers to let her say that she bested him in combat and she takes her daughter's weapons and leaves to go after Artemis.

Then Artemis goes running to daddy and cries at his lap. Zeus hugs her (and I will say this time and time again. That man is a girl dad it is so funny. He will spit in ares' face and then laugh at Athena's jokes) and asks what's wrong. Artemis says Hera is to blame

Obsessed with "Why, it's as if they had caught you out in public doing something wrong..."

It's giving "is there something you forgot to tell me?"

All the rest of the gods then sulk back home to Olympus, all but Apollo, who flies back to troy to make sure Achilles isn't causing Too Much damage which is hilarious because that man was on the verge of tears getting his ass beat by a river a few lines back

[protagaster]

I feel bad that Ruthlessness is taking so long to come about. College Finals and Group Projects do that to ya T_T

So, in the first of what I hope to be more mini-interludes posted between the main song-fics, here's a cute little interlude I made with nothing more than my coffee and pure vibes!

Made with inspiration from my partner in crime - @somereaderinblue

I Need Her to be Mine (EPIC! Swap AU)

Odysseus swoons over the Spartan princess that is unable to leave his mind…

~

Athena tried to be supportive, she really did, but right now all she wanted was to end herself. Nevermind the Gods can’t be killed, she’s the Goddess of Wisdom. She can find a way. 

The reason behind this sudden desire to walk her uncle’s realm: the honey-filled ramblings of her love-struck student. 

“She’s amazing, Athena! Unlike any girl I’ve ever seen!” 

Odysseus paced to and fro in lines across his guest-room, his sparkling eyes and dopey grin never once leaving his facial features. 

“Her bright smile, her intelligent eyes, the way her tongue pokes out when she’s deep in thought and how her nose scrunches up wherever a plan of hers works out…” 

Athena watched as Odysseus wrapped his arms around himself in a single person hug, flopping down on his bed with a light thud.

“The sound of her voice, the witty edge to her words, how her eyes light up and her hair bounces with every skip of her step…”

Odysseus suddenly threw himself up, now sitting on the edge of the bed. 

“Did you see the way she handled her spear!?” Odysseus sighed, recalling their interaction mere hours ago. “Patient, graceful, careful and considerate of the strategy she’d use against her opponent…” 

Athena raised an eyebrow, recalling the scene she watched from her owl form’s eyes.

Penelope, a name the Goddess now knew due to the sheer amount of times Odyseeus would utter it under his every breath, had challenged her pupil to a friendly duel. Whatever for, Athena had no clue. Perhaps the reason occurred when she was momentarily away from Odysseus’ side, taking notice of a peculiar boy by the name of Diomedes… 

Well, regardless of the reason, Odysseus had accepted Penelope’s challenge. 

Athena arrived in the middle of the duel, which took place in one of Sparta’s many individual training grounds, consisting only of the mortals and their Gods. 

That’s right. THIER Gods. 

Athena did not have to see him to know Ares was near, for a fellow war God’s aura is hard to hide. She could just feel her brother’s presence surrounding her, staining the Spartan palace in very specific zones. It did not to long for Athena to realize Ares’ aura was strongest wherever Penelope would roam. 

Sure enough, after a quick gaze through the girl using her divine sight, Athena saw Penelope was claimed with Ares’ touch. 

Though they were both Gods of War, Ares and Athena had a very different claim of ownership when it came to their students. 

As hers, Odysseus would appear to be surrounded by an elegant cluster of soft to the touch blue and white owl fathers; under his feet with every step, a layer of blue sand that twinkled like the stars in the inky night sky. The sand and feathers showcased the enrichment of the young warrior’s ever growing mind, encouraging him to take in the wisdom that would make him an effective warrior of the mind. 

Penelope, however, appeared very different when gazed at through divine eyes. As she belonged to Ares, the girl’s figure was closely guarded by sharp red and black vulutre feathers; under her feet was a layer of red sand, scorching and dusty akin to the fields of battle that took place many years ago in the exact ground where she now stood. The sand and feathers surrounding her illustrated the girl’s courage-filled drive, fueled by pure emotional passion and determination that made her an exemplary warrior of the heart. 

Just as Ares and Athena embodied the opposite sides of war, Penelope and Odysseus demonstrated the type of soldier one could be when entering the dance floor of battle.

It was fitting, Athena supposed. Odysseus was an emotionally-driven young boy who, despite his naturally genius intellect to those around him, needed someone like Athena to help him hone in on his mindfulness and cunning. 

Penelope, meanwhile, was a naturally patient and bright young girl who was always pondering, more conscious of her decisions than she needed to be. Much as Athena loathed to admit it, the girl needed someone like Ares to help her center on her emotions and be more assertive for her own sake. 

Still, Athena couldn’t help but think of it it as a pity. 

Penelope had an innate wisdom and natural sense of patience to her. Had she been taken under Athena’s wing, the Goddess could have molded her to be a truly competent warrior of the mind. 

Unfortunately, Ares had managed to dig his claws into the girl before Athena could have taken her. And so, instead of fully utilizing her cunning, Penelope tried to rely on a quick strikes and bouts of adrenaline to defeat Odysseus in their friendly match. 

However, just like every other instance where Ares tried to defeat Athena, his student was quickly made to yield by hers. Athena thought it to have concluded there, that her and Odysseus’ bout with Ares and Penelope to have been fulfilled in its entirety. 

But, Odysseus proved her otherwise when he continued to gush about Penelope even though it had been hours after their competition-

Oh, he was still gushing about her. 

“-I need her to be mine!” Odysseus yelled out to the world from his window. 

Athena only rolled her eyes at his declaration.

Still, even if she hasn’t a hand for all things romance-related, Athena couldn’t help but find herself wanting to support her pupil in his heartfelt endevor. He had suffered immensely through others telling him he wasn’t even in the young Spartan Princess’ league, ranging from his fellow suitors (a formality, as he had no desire to even entertain a marriage to Helen) to even Penelope’s own father. 

And, despite crying his love out to night sky outside, Athena knew Odysseus was still aching through the anxiety and insecurity of believing himself to be not good enough for Penelope.

…

Athena let out an internal sigh, a migraine already beginning to form. 

If she wanted to help Odysseus in his matters of the heart, if she wanted a more clear understanding of how Penelope felt about him in turn, she needed the help of her insufferable brother…

Athena needed to find a way to privately meet up with Ares…

[tootoonz]

Just had this thought of what would happen if Diomedes visits Ithaca after the war and meet Lil Telemachus :3

[kindred-spirit-93]

au-niverse expansion

hello had a thought this morning (i need to stop having them lol) abt a potential new angle of the oikoi au where hermione is sent to live with penelope when helen is abducted!

she knows her 'auntie' penelope and refuses to let anyone else be her primary caretaker. her father tries to reason with her to stay at home where she grew up, where its familiar, and where everyone knows her and will seek to protect her, but she refuses.

he cant stand seeing the tears that well in her eyes, just like helens. he arranges a convoy to send her and a very apologetic letter to the king and queen of ithaca, who have their own newborn to worry about.

shenanigans ensue. idk i really want to explore the 10 years of troy from penelopes perspective esp ruling a kingdom while raising her son (and now niece) and keeping herself together. and also another 10 years that is much darker and heavier and tackles her trauma bc she too became a monster rawr rawr rawr at some point, just differently.

--

and then hermione is sent on her merry way home when menelaus and helen send for her after writing a letter confirming their victory and shipwreck i think it was (diomedes had kindly written to her telling her the war was over and the ships had set sail homewards but she hadnt heard from anyone and the horizons were empty).

anyway now with newfound hope odysseus is merely having sat nav issues lol. she loads hermiones ship with gifts to welcome helen home including plenty of fabric and pieces of her own design

(something i reeeally want to add lol is that telemachus goes with her after winning a bet with penelope to let him go, and well he is his fathers son so he trots off and has a grand week with his aunt and uncle. menelaus tells him of his fathers cunning blah blah tele is even more pumped to meet his dad omg poor bby).

and then when he returns he suddenly finds several guests?? penelope is shook and trying to handle the situation with grace. tele is half hiding behind her and holding onto her robes, a hand is on his head and the other over he heart.

the 'guests' only increase in number and nothing is quite the same. at least his aunt ctimene and cousin eupehmia are still here. only a few years down the line they too are forced away and it really is tele and pen against 108 horrid men whos audacity only grows with their appetites.

AND THEN when tele goes to search for his dad the gut punch is the parallel of menelaus being like son ur father is the most badass lil shit ive ever known to son idk how to tell you but but hes not coming home. idk lots of crying here

the point is its all told through penelopes perspective and several external povs bc those are fun and give u, well, new perspectives XD

currently toturing all my blorbos. let them weep (harder)

@notsolonedesert hi >:3

[dootznbootz]

Which Greek mythology character would you like to see talked about more?

OHoho. you all already know this.

It's Penelope.

And I am being so fucking serious about it. I'm also sleepy and angry and mother nature is stabbing my gut so I'm putting a lot of my emotions into this ask.

BUT her fangirling, angry, bitchy rant of mine, I will save for the end. (and I'll explain it more down there) Not gonna lie, I will probably be mean. Don't take it too personally. (Some folks I know genuinely love her and have stuff for her. Y'all are fine :D )

I have many other characters I wish would be seen more, but hers rant is ooooh. it's been boiling angrily for a long time and this is the perfect ask to let loose.

Take note: This is more about characters who I feel are either underrated and/or not really given love. It's a whole other can of worms about characters who ARE given a lot of attention but are either fandomized to the point of being unrecognizable or people just...really see them wrong.

Ariadne:

A young princess who helped out Theseus to end the cycle of violence against the youth of Athens. Despite the fact that she was going against her family by helping Theseus she did. When he left her, for whatever reason, she was rescued by Dionysus. In which these two have a loving and healthy marriage. There is so much potential here and it makes me sad that she gets butchered and/or just ignored.

Danae:

She was locked up by her father because of a prophecy that happened anyway. She is now pregnant with Zeus' child. She is then locked into a chest in which she is sent floating in the sea. She washes up on Seriphos. Her son is sent on an impossible quest in order to keep her from a forced marriage. Her story is inspiring and ugh sdkf j badass mama! ;~;

Telemachus:

Got that right here :)

Sthenelus:

Fucking love this lil hotheaded cheerleader man. Go boy, go! He got yeeted by Athena from the chariot. Diomedes and him tell each other that they love each other. Tells off Agamemnon for mocking Diomedes' and his dad. He was a child soldier alongside Diomedes. I love this weird lil guy.

Hephaestus:

It makes me sad how people only see him as the "cuck" of Aphrodite and Ares. (no hate to them. do not hate either of them) He's badass in his own right! He does that bigass fire in the Iliad! And one of my favorite scenes in that epic, is him welcoming Thetis! I think he's neat :D

Hebe:

Ganymede isn't the only cupbearer on Olympus you know.

Menelaus:

I love me a goofy wifeman...But if that's all you see him as, I'm sad. What about the sealy man? (aka him wrestling a god for a while and making him tell him answers) The exiled prince? The younger brother? The angry charioteer who yelled at Antilochus? The man who interfered with his brother's letter to his wife to warn to not bring their daughter? Being the sweet uncle figure for Telemachus? (he and Penelope get a lot of the same treatment in a way. with the whole "just the spouse" ;~; )

Psyche:

I think she's pretty popular, but shout out to her anyway :D Because I love her story a lot.

And last but absolutely not least,

Penelope

Heads up once more, but I'm going to be so fucking mean right now. I'm very tired and runnin on 4 hours of sleep and my tummy hurts. This is all over the place and I'm sad.

I think some of you treat the fact that Odysseus is (rightfully) obsessed with her and adores her as if that's HER personality trait... as while it's adorable to see him simping over her as he does, she's not just there for him (and me) to simp for. In the same vein, I think some of y'all only see her for her love of Odysseus and nothing more. Some folks don't see her as anything more than what she is for Odysseus.

AS IF HER HUSBAND ISN'T JUST AS INTERTWINED WITH HER AS SHE IS WITH HIM!

And yet, there is so much stuff with him about the other people in his life. The other Achaeans, Polites and Eurylochus, Athena, etc. You know Penelope has people in her life other than her husband and her son, right?

Even stuff that's just her, it's usually her weaving the shroud...That still ties back to Odysseus. If you wanna have her weave, maybe have her weave something happily. Maybe her chatting with Anticlea or Athena while she does! Or Helen! or her sister!

There's the saying of "the characters respect women but the author does not" and I'm noticing that a LOT in this fandom. I don't think it's intentional, but it's very telling with what people prioritize in their creations how they feel. (and no, I'm not talking about Homer. He wrote incredible women.)

I'm not saying you're not allowed to have favorites. But even if Odysseus IS your favorite, if you have Penelope so one note or with such weak characterization while having so much for Odysseus, FOR THE MEN WHO HE IS NEAR... It's just really telling.

I've even seen some shit with "Well, there's not much to do with her." as if y'all don't make OCs with less. I've seen people give Astyanax, an AU baby, more characterization than her. (Have him alive in your AUs but if you give him more character than Peenlope, I am side-eying you so hard.)

It genuinely pisses me off how overlooked she is. I hate how her tags are basically empty (honestly? I might start tagging my silliness for her correctly because it has so lil.)

Hey, why do followers of the other tags show up but not for #penelope of ithaca? It's clearly because she has SO many followers/fans that she broke tumblr! Especially with the fact that you can scroll all the way to the bottom pretty quickly! /sarcasm

(btw, before you say something, I know there's no consistent tag for Penelope. I follow many of them. #penelope odyssey is kind of the best bet I believe. #penelope of sparta is mostly about that new show that's coming out and hyping about it. still not about HER. #penelope mostly has some bridgerton character. so yeah. Not much on tumblr)

(shoutout to the artists who got their art on front of the tag! That's exciting! I'm being a mean bitch right now but that's fun and exciting!)

I hate how people see her as so one-note. I hate how she's often just "Odysseus' wife". MOST CONTENT OF HER IS HIM SIMPING OVER HER. (that's something I'm guilty of too! I plan to fix that soon. I have so many wips and so lil time and too high of personal standards because since she has so little content of her, I WILL make it good. I'll TRY to make it good.)

EVEN HEADCANONS! SO MUCH OF FANDOM STILL ONLY HAS HEADCANONS THAT HAVE TO DO WITH ODYSSEUS OR TELEMACHUS. GIVE ME SOMETHING ABOUT HER CHILDHOOD. GIVE ME LIL QUIRKS SHE HAS. What does she struggle with? What's her favorite color? Does she like dancing? ANYTHING.

Feelings about how fandom sees her are also summed up by this and this. (Edit: This one too. She's not even dead in the Odyssey but people act like she doesn't exist until Odysseus is there.)

...Do you see my problem? Just one of my problems?

So many people genuinely read the Odyssey and just see her as the "crying wife". People diminish her character and her intelligence all the fucking time. You wanna know something I've noticed? PEOPLE ONLY TALK ABOUT HER INTELLIGENCE WHEN ODYSSEUS IS THERE. Like with how she tricks him and how she tricks the suitors. Nobody talks about the moment when Athena appears as her sister in her dream and she is immediately like "hey, if you're some god, is my husband still alive?" she clocks her as Athena RIGHT AWAY.

People constantly forget her violent thoughts against the suitors! Or when she sasses Telemachus and Euryclea. When she scolds and threatens the maids. (she's not always nice y'all!) Do you really think Odysseus would be obsessed with someone who isn't on his level?

We all know that he loves her. BUT WHY?! "Because she's smart like him." Yeah, we know. WHAT ELSE?

They are Likeminded! Thinking and acting alike! You know how fun that is?!

Homer, you absolute mad lad genius. You made her a mystery to the narrator, Odysseus, and for some reason, people see that as her just being a straight up mystery. You wrote her so wonderfully and so complex with how she is so sneaky in her own way that people are literally tricked by her as readers as well!

Or sadly, more likely, people fucking blackout when she's in the scene and there's no Odysseus. 🙄

Look, even if you have Penelope be the "braincell" who keeps her husband in line, MAKE SURE SHE'S NOT ACTING LIKE ODYSSEUS' FUCKING MOM. They're both grown ass adults for fuck's sake!

Also...please...PLEASE have her be more than a prop for the men around her. I've read some things that could literally have her be replaced by Euryclea, as Penelope is sometimes just used as a sounding board.

I'll be even more bitchier. Even in the OT3 she's commonly in. It wasn't a NOTP until I noticed most creations of that ship was just "Odysseus and this person for 6000+ words... Oh, and Penelope making an appearance in the footnotes." If it's an OT3, they all love each other right? Where's the PenDio fics/art, cowards?

I have a weird theory about how people treat her that way. (other than fandom prioritizing men)

So there's "girlbossing" and "uwu sad victim" that fandom can never seem to leave. I think People do this with Helen and Clytemnestra and that's why THEY are "blorbo-able". (not saying they shouldn't be but they definitely get more love than Penelope)

Helen, despite not always being a victim in her story, has been through so much. Kidnapped and some people blame her for it (irl and some people in canon do blame the war on her). Very easy to cling to. I cling to her too! (she's on the "UwU always victim. tragic blorbo" end)

Clytemnestra, is a victim in the sense that she's a grieving and angry mother and wife. And so she killed Agamemnon. Her violence and anger is seen as "girlboss" despite all the horrible stuff she also did to her children. (she's more on the "girlboss" end)

Penelope, is not a victim to the same degree as Helen nor does she murder anyone (how could she? it was 108 people against her and the Odyssey shows that the suitors' parents were enraged. Even Odysseus was skeptical he could beat them.)

She's not on either end of the "scales" for people to find her "blorbo-able". She doesn't murder her husband or the suitors by herself or is a victim to them in the same way Helen is.

And that's just for people who know her husband didn't cheat. I think with people who think Odysseus did cheat, they hate her because "she let it slide". That she's "weakwilled" for knowing her husband went through literal hell and wanting him to be happy and safe.

Idk, It's a little lonely being one of the few "Penelope crazy" blogs.

I sometimes wonder if people kind of come to my blog in a "Hey, can you love her for me? Can you think about her for us?" as I have seen very little on her childhood for example. It's STILL mostly in relation to others.

It's not even the "sharing ideas" that bugs me. it's the feeling of people not wanting to come up with headcanons/ideas for her OUTSIDE of canon.

"She was in Helen's shadow." Okay, well, how did she feel about it? What did she do about it? Did she hide away? Did she internalize that? Did she find that freeing? To not be the center of attention?

Stuff like that. Dive DEEPER. PLEASE

It makes me happy that people love my Penelope as I love her too, clearly. But I really fucking hope you love the CANON Penelope too. If you think I made Penelope "better" or anything like that, then leave. She's already fantastic on her own.

I want to talk about her more. I want her to be seen more.

[ilions-end]

i finished statius' ACHILLEID. thoughts thoughts thoughts:

i knew going in it was a VERY short unfinished epic, but i didn't know it would be FUN?? if i ever get that time machine, FIRST THING i go back and find one publius papinius statius, i lock him in a room, and i'm NOT letting him out until he's finished the achilleid!

achilles is statius' BLORBO in a way neither homer, quintus nor virgil have blorbos. statius likes achilles to be strong and pretty and graceful, but most of all ENDEARING even when he fails. and he fails a lot, because this is him still figuring out how to be an adult, not to mention a prophesied legend literally everyone is waiting for to step up

the one thing that gets tiring is just how many prophecies permeate the achilleid. nothing's left to chance, there are so few unknowns. even ODYSSEUS was aware that from peleus' wedding there would come a child destined to be a central warrior in an upcoming gigantic war.

as it stands, the achilleid is more of a... thetisiad? she is very centered in the narrative (we spend more time looking at things from her point of view than achilles') and there is SO MUCH SYMPATHY for her, oh my gosh!! she loves ONE person, her son, the only worthwhile thing she got out of a traumatizing marriage, and she despairs that he's fated to die young in a silly human war.

also i'm a deidamia defender forever now. so three-dimensional, so clever!

aughhh i love how much characterization statius puts in, even in the small scenes! my favourite example is odysseus and diomedes as they walk up to lycomedes' place (literally just moving characters from A to B). diomedes teases odysseus, and odysseus is delighted to be teased. that night we're told odysseus CAN'T SLEEP because he's too excited about showing off his plan the next morning!

the unveiling of achilles is completely different from the chagrined defeat/"achilles is a fucking idiot" ways i've heard it retold! i love that it's collaborative, it's a mutual triumph. it's just as much achilles (who's been suffering in gender dysphoria hell for a year) longing to be exposed as it is odysseus LIVING for showing everyone (especially diomedes?) how clever he is. it's not just the shield and the spear and the bugle, it's odysseus playing the part of the siren, whispering in achilles' ear that he knows who he is and describing how glorious he will be on the trojan battlefield. it's achilles' grateful relief at being ALLOWED not to pretend anymore as he rips off his own dress even before the bugle calls

also it's very important to me that the moment he's no longer hunching over trying to make himself look small and inoffensive, we're told achilles is taller than both odysseus and diomedes

i KEEP IMAGINING how good statius would have made the rest!! especially because as book ii ends, achilles regards odysseus as a cool uncle; he's the guy who rescued him! i want to think statius would have put in the big mystery quarrel achilles and odysseus are said to have had early in the war, something to drastically change that affection. i want to know how statius would have handled troilus, and the gods. augh statius you roman BLUEBALLER

an assortment of story beats still revolving in my head:

chiron is such a sweetheart!! he's SO gallant with thetis, he's so affectionate with achilles. he HIDES HIS TEARS when achilles leaves, awww

statius writes out phoinix completely. as a phoinix stan i object. sure chiron can raise young achilles, but i NEED phoinix to tend to him as a baby

i enjoy how achilles EXPLODES into a mess of teenagerly hormones when he first sees deidaima. it's so funny that thetis is looking on (and we get my favourite simile of the achilleid, of a herdsman delighting in a young bull snorting and foaming at a beautiful heifer) like "aaaaand there's my son's sexual awakening. i see! well, we can use that" and THAT explains why achilles is so willing to commit to the female disguise

(listen. listen. few things mean more to me than the love between achilles and patroclus. but achilles is a teenage boy at the age when a fucking breeze will give him a boner, and deidamia is the most beautiful and the cleverest of her sisters. i really enjoy a story where achilles and deidamia are neither "fated eternal true love" or one's a sneaky opportunist. it's much more compelling that they're both knots of budding emotions and bodily feedback)

i notice that statius never uses the name pyrrha, he doesn't seem to have a fake name at all, just "achilles' sister"

lycomedes is SO honoured and proud that thetis is entrusting her daughter to him. i feel sorry for lycomedes, he seems so earnest and hasn't done anything to get tricked

the one thing i can't forgive statius for is that after spending SO much time establishing that achilles and deidamia (who knows he's a guy) are genuinely into each other, it feels like statius goes OUT OF HIS WAY assuring us that their first sexual encounter is rape. sure they talk right after, deidamia forgives him, AND i understand there are social rules that makes deidamia more "honourable" and "worthy" when she resists, but like. sigh.

aLONG with the previously mentioned interplay between odysseus and diomedes as they walk up to lycomedes' court, there's a simile where they're both starving wolves on the hunt. so sexy it's almost illegal

the feast scene is SO FUNNY omg. all of achilles' careful feminine training dissolving because odysseus and diomedes are there with their boundless masculinity for him to feed off of. deidamia practically WRESTLING achilles back down on the couch every time he forgets himself and behaves too much like a man. odysseus chatting with lycomedes SPECIFICALLY trying to rile up achilles, and then after the women have left (achilles dragging his feet and looking back, YEARNING for their male company) odysseus specifically praises the maiden's "almost masculine" beauty (because ohh he suspects. he just needs to prove it in the morning. he can't SLEEP for it)

when they depart, achilles earnestly swears to deidamia that no other women shall ever bear his children. i find it interesting as a reminder of the social rules of its era. neither of them expect achilles to be sexually exclusive, just not fathering potential heirs. which again makes me wonder about the contraceptives in ancient greece

on the ship towards aulis, diomedes begs achilles to tell them all about his feats and training with chiron, and achilles is so shy about it! who can blame him! diomedes has a WAY more impressive track record

odysseus is SO good at firing up achilles' outrage at paris even as he's just catching him up on what the war's about. and he's so pleased at how easily achilles' outrage can be directed! you KNOW that would have developed in such an interesting way AUGH THE REST WOULD HAVE BEEN SO GOOD.

[tiddiesoutwhenthetisout]

Do you have a headcanon that you like so much that you practically automatically include it when you think of the character the headcanon is about?

i will try to list a few, as i remember best when i trigger an associated memory (i think-- i'd like to think my memory still works 🤣).

tbh i held off on answering this since i can't think of a good hc from the top of my head hahaha

it's not going to be substantiated by historical texts or information since i have very limited knowledge in those areas. these are silly little hcs i inferenced from the most random places.

Patroclus:

- he has very nice names for his dogs. he thinks of each one very well as he walks back to camp after rescuing the animal from destruction. he constantly thinks about it, and of course they have meanings, but i'm unfortunately not greek so i can't dive deeper into that :') something like "child of vast plains" (one word) as in free. like his wishes for each dog. "never suffering a lack of", such and such. depending on his observations of each dog's personality.

- tired dad but also playful piece of shit uncle vibes.

- i like to think he genuinely enjoys the adrenaline of high stakes (gambling- which totally started as a joke because i saw a post saying he 'killed a boy over dice #gamblingaddiction') but doesn't participate much when the soldiers play because he has his dutiful side lol. when he decides to come out and participate, he keeps winning.

- voice smooth as honey and chocolate but he's a little tone deaf.

※ also, grey eyes patroclus truther over here. and that he probably got his medical talents from his mother, whoever it was.

Achilles:

- stays in his tent most of the time. the longer the war went on, the more he closed himself off, save for a few of his own men and his close friends (patroclus, antilochus, automedon, ajax, teucer...) he does get out for celebrations but he tends to get sick of merrymaking easier than others so he retires early. would complain to patroclus about several things in his day as they tend to their body pains and weapons/armor maintenance. this says a lot about my general impression of his personality. i don't need to spell out that i think he's dramatic lol

- has a green right eye and a deep black left iris (from thetis). i made this on accident with a sketch but i really like the idea of him being *slightly* unsettling when they see him the first time instead of a flawless blonde child. sure he still is, but i'd like in-universe characters to have more of a reason to not approach him. and well... pay thetis a little bit of tribute hahaha. i deleted other appearance hcs for him and patroclus, realizing i can just add those when i post my wip character design sheets. but here's a zoomed shot of his face as a 12 year old:

- likes theater. would have tried for it himself if he didn't have to be a warrior. has made several songs throughout his life especially in childhood but has never documented them. forgets them in the morning.

Odysseus:

- nearsighted. idk if there's anything to prove this otherwise, but i just slapped it on him. he doesn't recognize people super easily by their faces, but he goes by other things instead like height or voice, or their most prominent features. that's also how he hunts or kills. he doesn't really know this ofc, and has just been doing it his whole life. now he doesn't know his son's face very well, so i'd like to add this to the moral dilemma of throwing astyanax off the wall more than it already is.

- short king idk 5'1". 5'2" if he's wearing shoes hehe. has the same height with penelope. telemachus is 5'3" (without shoes). the genes are improving!

Menelaus:

- diomedes and odysseus second father figure. this probably has a lot of contradicting evidence, but let me sit with the funny image that it started as a joke at first then they found menelaus just has very basic dad instincts. has, on many nights, gotten drunk and cried about helen leaving him.

- has to watch his blood pressure (sorry).

Diomedes:

- values the concept of family higher than most. he doesn't spell it out in the open of course, but it's one of the things that sets him apart as well.

※ so i took a break, got curious about diomedes and looked up his future after troy. that hc does not bode well with his wife's status after his return 💀

Pyrrhus:

- has red hair (sometimes a "duh" moment for me considering his name is literally fire-haired/red-haired; I've seen blonde depictions of him).

- 5'6". slightly taller than average, but shorter than his father because his god blood is more diluted than.

- very cold and steadfast when he first showed up. i want to believe that he was not that all throughout. he learned to commune with other soldiers, although awkward and unsure. somehow, he became like another achilles; the youngest of the soldiers, the man who would spearhead the attack by proposing the idea of the trojan horse (i read somewhere it was him, and then some say odysseus, some say both). he would look quizzically at handshakes but would accept. he'd be so confused by whooping and hugging and cheering after battle, but didn't resist the warmth of it. he unfortunately didn't have time to explore that side of life before he died.

i think i'll end it there 🤣 i'm not that well-acquainted with other characters, but you yourself wrote about automedon and balius and xanthus being tamed by patroclus, so i also believe that now actually.