#they are actually have a queer platonic relationship

[genderkoolaid]

i think part of it is that queer platonic partnerships are. queer. like they can look like anything ofc but in MY experience and with MY fiction... qpps are weird. the people in them have queer understandings and desires. not to make sweeping overgeneralizations but if the fictional qpp doesn't upset/disturb/confuse cishetallo people it's not being done right.

I have two sets of characters who are in essentially qpps. And while neither use modern queer language to describe them or their relationship, it is clearly written to be a qpp because I make a point of making a point about friendships, romance, sex, and how the typical frameworks for relationships do not work for them. One set may be read as "more romantic" and the other "more platonic" but both are very clearly people whose relationship cannot be defined by amatonormative frameworks for relationships.

These relationships are QUEER because they break from what is typical, expected, and permissible, and a well written QPP is done with that in mind. A well written QPP allows the media to question amatonormativity. Queerbait does not do that. It plays with the idea of a queer relationship to get money, refuses to ever deliver, and insist that the relationship is actual completely normal and heterosexual.

i hate when aromanticism & QPPs are used as an excuse for queerbaiting. because i know damn well those creators were not thinking about us. we deserve characters & stories that were written with us in mind, that were written BY us, that have relish in everything aro, our unique experiences and perspectives, and the MANY ways in which we can have relationships. not just allo character sloppy seconds.

[nadjasnandor]

what I don't understand is like .... they wrote the guillermo and nandor dynamic the way they did AND made both of them queer. like. nobody asked them to do ANY of that. so turning around and mocking everyone who very reasonably looked at what the writers of this show wrote and said "they are written like a couple" is just a baffling thing to do. imho

Exactly. And if you don't mind, I'm going to use your ask as an excuse to write out why I'm upset about certain things, because what you said is the root of my problem.

My disappoint doesn't come from Nandor/Guillermo not going canon in the traditional sense (at least not fully), but from the very 2010s-esque way everyone seems to be talking about fans post-finale. Basically saying they never intended Nandor & Guillermo to be anything but platonic and blaming the weird fans for wanting their pornographic whishes (🙄) to actually happen in the show, like they were not in any way responsible for creating those wishes, is insulting but, more importantly, not true. And they can't convince me otherwise because I was there, watching the whole thing unfold in real time.

I already mentioned being remotely normal about Nandor/Guillermo pre season 3 and there is a reason for that. During the first season the fandom was small. And by that I mean both Nandor/Guillermo shippers and also the people watching wwdits in general. During season 1, sometimes all you saw when going into the tags was about 5 of my gifsets in a row, for instance. Even if people watched the show, they didn't really interact with it in a fandom-y way. During the middle of s1, I complained about there not being Nandor/Guillermo fics at all and even between s1 and s2 I posted about there not being a lot. It was also this era when the first mentions of possible canon romantic feelings were brought up and it was by Harvey himself, who said he thinks Guillermo has feelings for his boss. This was, of course, only Harvey explaining how he views his character but I feel it's important because, as it's been mentioned before, Harvey came up with a lot of Guillermo's character, starting with his surname. He basically created current Guillermo. In the original pilot script, Guillermo is a 40-something, very bitter man. Quite different from our Guillermo and it's all thanks to Harvey.

But during this period, that is during s1 and s2, anything romantic between Nandor and Guillermo was purely accidental and mostly due to Kayvan and Harvey's chemistry. We all knew this, even if by s2 we did get the first articles about Nandor & Guillermo's relationship being maybe not fully platonic. By the end of season 2, the fandom has grown for sure but it was still nowhere near its current size. We also had Nandor say he treated Guillermo like a son, which was quite annoying but we at least knew where we stood with the show. Didn't stop us from shipping those two, of course, because fandoms have survived on less (Looking back, it is funny how much I hated that line when now it's just *vaguely gestures around*). It's important to note that after season 2, Jemaine left and Paul took over. And then came season 3.

There is a reason why I was so insane about the Cloak of Duplication and then Gail. The former canonized Guillermo's feelings for Nandor on screen for the first time and the latter showed that it was not just a single episode, throw away scene. Instead they continued with Guillermo being jealous of Nandor and his sexual partner. That was huge. But the fandom still hasn't blown up fully, that happened later during season 3. And I think it's important to say that because they wrote and filmed season 3 before the show blew up. They cannot say they wrote those scenes to please (or bait) fans. They weren't 'pressured' to do anything with Nandor and Guillermo. Season 3 was also when the very heavy Nandor/Guillermo promoting started. (Like the parody of The Bodyguard poster with 'Never fall in lo-', for example). Now, I don't remember if the first articles calling them the will-they-won't-they couple of the show came out during this season or later, but it was definitely past season 3. So by the end of season 3 the fandom has grown large and people were obviously very into the ship.

Now we can say shippers are pushy or annoying but fans can be annoying in general. People can be annoying lol. When your show grows big enough, annoying people you don't like are going to watch it too. (I'm sure if those annoying people are cishet men then this burden is easier to bear but I digress. I am a little bitter, after all). But at this point, fans had no reason to be pushy, we thought every sign was pointing to canon romantic Nandor/Guillermo.

At this point, the show saw how large the fandom has grown and how invested people were in Nandor/Guillermo. If that's not what they wanted, if they felt people were seeing things differently than how they intented, they could have pulled back. They had enough time between season 3 and season 4 to do that. But they didn't. Instead, they doubled down and continued to do the same for 2 more season. Even if by season 5 the latest we already had Paul saying weird things about the dynamic.

Instead it seems they decided to pull back in season 6 but by then it was too late. People were expecting them to come through on the thing they have been teasing for 3 seasons. And then they blamed the fans for not liking what they offered up instead. For wanting 'pornographic scenes'. Because it's 'not that kind of a show'. They say this about a show with an episode called The Orgy.

And even while saying all that, they didn't stop them from teasing the fans until the very last moment. Nandor's 'you know what would be cooler than being friends' is just cruel lmao. And that's why it felt more like mocking to me. Not only because of what happened in the show, but because when I watch those scenes, I can't seperate them from how the cast and crew talk about the ship and the fans in interviews. They apparently now think it's stupid and weird but will gladly tease it in the show for whatever reason? It's funny because fans are weird and kinky, I guess. Things unheard of in relation to this show.

I also don't understand Kayvan and Harvey's complete 180 turn. During the early seasons, Kayvan was not really into the idea of the ship, saying it's a bit toxic due to the power imbalance in their dynamic but he seemed to go full throttle later, even overtaking Harvey in hyping the ship up. And then in the first post-finale interview, he says that 'Nandor is never going to have sex with Guillermo', even if the show left that door open with the last scene. And then there's Harvey, who was the first to say Guillermo has feelings for his boss, who is now championing the repserentation of platonic gay male friendships on tv. In his case, I can give him the benefit of doubt, because he must have his own experiences with that and it's not my place to dismiss or doubt them. I do find the change strange and have complained about it but it's more understandable than Kayvan's. (EDIT: I didn't read this interview after the finale but it just makes things even more confusing, if I'm honest.)

I tried to be as coherent as possible and write out all my thoughts about this topic but I most likely still missed some things. I don't really like to talk about my feelings and thoughts this elaborately because I find it difficult to fully express myself but I tried my best because I felt like I was going insane.

[dross-the-fish]

Dealing with casual aphobia feels so weird because it doesn't look like the kneejerk horrified homophobia or transphobia you normally get from bigoted people so it's easier to ignore for awhile but I find that it does eventually get under my skin. "If you're alive you have a kink, everyone has kinks they just don't talk about it!" - No? I don't have kinks or fetishes, I don't even really have a sense of physical attraction and with each passing year my interest in having any kind of sex at all disappears. My relationship to sex is not the same as that of Allosexual people. "Celibacy is admirable! It's commendable," -It's not really being celibate if the interest isn't there. I'm not abstaining from anything. I don't think there is any virtue in abstinence or that there is a moral superiority attached to the presence or absence of sex. Being sexual is normal and healthy for most people. "You're a prude" -No, I'm just not horny. I have no strong feelings about how active other people are. It's no different from realizing I don't like chocolate cake so I just don't buy chocolate cake ever. I don't want to ban all discussion or consumption of chocolate cake. Why does that make YOU so uncomfortable? "You should see a doctor! That can't be healthy!"-I'm not unhappy with my lack of sexual interest. it's only a problem for me because other people keep acting like it is. "But you write NSFW!" -Sex as a topic is still interesting and it is a facet of some character's identity. I think it's worth discussing and exploring how some characters communicate emotions through sex. I even enjoy reading about it sometimes. I just don't actually want to have it. "You just need the right partner!" My current partner is the right partner. Sex is just not part of the equation because it never needed to be. "But asexuals CAN have sex" -why is it always this and never "Allosexuals can live without it."? And if you truly can't live without it stop trying to hook up with asexual people!

"That's not fair to anyone who starts a relationship with you" -been in a happy queer-platonic with my aromatic partner for 10 years, thanks.

[cryinhell]

No one asked, but here's my updated top ten hellaverse ships (both canon and not)

10) Stella x Striker

What can I say? I love an evil couple. I think these two look pretty hot together, and it's interesting how Striker seems to respect Stella despite hating blue bloods. These two aren't canon, but I wouldn't mind if they were

9) RadioRose

Despite having mixed feelings on Alastor, I think these two are just so cute. Either as a couple or just queer platonic partners, I don't care. Rosie seems to be the only person to make Alastor genuinely smile, and she's the only one who can touch him. There's a special bond there I really like

8) Verosika Mayday x Wally Wackford

So this is the biggest crack ship on this list, but I think in theory, it's so cute. I really want Verosika to be happy, and Wally, despite being a bit of a scammer, is really sweet. I'm totally cool with Verosika ending up with Barbie as well, but I slightly prefer Wally. I wonder if they will have more interactions in future episodes.

7) Fizzmodeus

Is this controversial? Probably. I know Fizzarolli and Asmodeus are so loved in this fandom, so putting them at number 7 is awful...but they aren't my favorite. I do like them, and I think they're really cute! I just have ships I like more, but that doesn't take away how sweet these two can be. Sometimes obnoxiously sweet heh. So yeah, no disrespect to these two

6) M&M

So these two were at first kinda meh for me, but over time, I've grown to love them. They have a pretty healthy relationship, and I always hate when someone bothers Millie for marrying Moxxie or saying Moxxie isn't a good enough husband. These two clearly love and respect each other and clearly grow together with every episode.

5) Staticmoth

Like I said, I love an evil couple. Valentino is a monster, and Vox is deplorable. That doesn't stop me from loving them as a couple and thinking they are cute. I think they both should die, but also would be sad cause come on, they're cute together.

4) Cherrisnake

I love Sir Pentious, I love Cherri Bomb, so obviously, them together is a fun pair. I shipped these two before the show came out and was so excited to see Pen having a crush on Cherri. They kinda remind me of the early versions of M&M, but they need a lot more time. Cherri isn't ready to accept love, and Sir Pentious is well...in a different world. I can't wait to see these two develop and become an actual couple.

3) Adamsapple

So this and Lucilith could be here. Lucifer being happy is the main objective, and its Adamsapple is so fun. They clearly have a history, and there's a lot of feelings. If Adam comes back in season 2, I'd love to see this be fleshed out. I doubt they'd be a couple, but maybe friends? Who knows. I'm fine with this one not being canon, and just something fun in the fandom

2) Stolitz

Stoltiz is pretty important to me because it really got me involved in the fandom. I've been watching Helluva Boss since the beginning, but episode one of season two had me from casual watcher to actual fan. Blitzø is one of the characters I really relate to, and Stolas is just a really well written character. I love the development of these two and they are worth waiting for. I really gotta draw some fanart of them because they are everything

1) Huskerdust

Are you surprised? You must be new. These two are my everything and all time otp in the Hellaverse. I've talked so much about why I love them, and I will continue to do so until I can't any longer. Angel and Husk are not only my favorite characters individually, but their growing friendship and eventual relationship are just so ughhhh. I love these losers, and they will always be number one.

Thanks for reading my nonsense

Have a good one 💜💜

[tsbs-shipfessions]

In an au of tsams where Sun is transmasc ((Canon sb games, the women's bathroom is Sun themed ergo My Queer Hands Are All Over This Starry Lad)), I like the idea of Moon being like. Weird about it in a super supportive way. Like actual sibling relationships rarely include referring to one another are brother/sister/sibling - so Moon just LOUDLY and AGRESSIVELY is like "WOW HELLO BROTHER OF MINE" and "oh let me handle this for you, BROTHERRRR" specifically while making aggressive eye contact with whoever is closest to them both.

The femboy comments are also intended to be affirming too, though in a mix of I Respect Your Gender, Bro and As Your Twin I Legally HAVE To Tease You.

Ironically enough, very VERY few people actually know Sun is trans - Eclipse knows, as do many Eclipse iterations across the multiverse, but Lunar funnily enough had NO IDEA and is flabbergasted when he finds out. Not in an offended way, but in a ":000 ONE OF US ONE OF US, HAHAHA TAKE THAT, MOON, YOU CIS FUCK-"

"I'm not cis either, Lunar."

":OOOOOO AAAAA-" ((Think annoying little brother shenanigans))

Most of the Glamrocks heard via heresay about the Daycare and its attendants, so when Moon introduced them to Sun as his brother they just went "oh, bet, update that, boom - done, weird mix-up haha anyway-"

Not exactly a romo-ship thing, but platonic ships ayyyy family ships AYYYY idk if it counts but HAVE ITTTTTT-

[cipher99]

@catdownthestreet I am most definitely *not* aphobic nor am I devaluing platonic bonds between characters. I am merely stating that these two don’t fit either bill, or at least not in a way that would be effective representation for either by themselves.

I also understand queer representation in any positive context is important, especially these days, but a romantic relationship between these two doesn’t exclude any of that.

Indeed, there are many, many LGBTQ+ people who do see this pair in a romantic context and thus related representation. Mariner is confirmed pan and many believe Boimler is queer coded. These people might even comprise the majority of shippers, here. Doesn’t their perspective matter?

Nobody has indicated this duo have to be viewed solely in a romantic context. We’re just saying it’s the latter that is the most compelling to us.

I further believe I’ve cited enough examples of the interactions between these two to preclude any notion of a distinctly “sibling” or “parent/child” dynamic here as you alluded to. I also don’t believe I’ve been insulting to anyone who actually does have such a relationship. Again, I have zero issue with those. I just simply don’t see either, here. If you do, that’s your prerogative.

It’s clear you don’t see Marinler in the same context as us, and that’s okay. To each their own. But to insist that we can’t be insulted by a few members of the former production team trying to invalidate what we saw, what they created, after it’s all said and done is frankly absurd. It’s not up to you to decide what is or isn’t insulting to us just as it’s not up to us to decide what is or isn’t insulting to you.

I’m sorry if my words have made you uncomfortable, but this isn’t about you, it’s about us.

After DS9 concluded there were also folks who said what Garashir shippers feel isn’t valid, that the representation they saw wasn’t real. But they persevered, as will we.

I understand you probably don’t mean to come off as condescending, but you do. Whatever we feel is just as valid as what you feel.

I’ve recently seen some interviews where a few of the now-former production team are insisting Marinler is strictly platonic. In one, the shippers are even acknowledged and it’s claimed the pairing has the potential to be canonized in an “alternate universe.”

While it’s certainly nice to at least be acknowledged, I still have to insist the narrative they’re trying to manufacture off-screen and after the fact is completely counter to what was conveyed in the show itself.

Long stares, fond looks, a heavy co-dependency, very, very frequent physical contact and a strong need for physical closeness, interest in each other’s dating lives, mutual admission of physical attraction, flirtatious dialogue and teasing banters, insight and knowledge into each other not matched with anyone else, etc.

It’s even been established they have a bond that transcends universes and timelines.

Little of the aforementioned apart can be read as “platonic.” All together just as we got in this show, not at all.

Not sorry, McMahan and crew; the show’s over. You can’t rewrite the entire dynamic of two characters after the fact.

[queerclownaf]

A tale of two hearts, an Ever After High Fanfic

   -Don't move- Briar cautioned- I dont want to paint your finger.

   Apple smiled politely, like she always does, but continued moving her head to the sides, so she could take a glance at the movie that Briar´s head was preventing her from seeing.

   -I said don't move!!- Briar raised her voice

   -Shhhh, Ashlynn is sleeping- laughed Apple.

   -So don't move-

   -Ok… I will try.

   With an angry, but jokingly glance, Briar continued painting her friends' nails. Her chosen color was a nude, a more pinkish nude than the once Apple was used to wearing. Briar had a considerable large collection of nail polish, going from vermillion to jade green to lemon yellow, however Apple chose that color, as she was only allowed to wear nude colors on makeup. On clothing she was allowed to wear more colors, specifically the ones of the White family, red and gold, that Apple wore proudly. She didn't see that family law as a prohibition, she understood it better as a way to show their status as the actual royalty of her family.

   She gazed at her friend, her head full of pink strikes, her fluor green nails, her mismatched pijama clothing, with a blue short and an old band t-shirt, so old the entire logo was gone. Then she scanned herself, her two piece champagne color long pijamas, her long and well maintained blond hair, she was exactly like a princess should be, she even took pride in it. She thought about all the lessons, how to be a perfect princess, how to sit, how to dress, how to think. Her mind rambled a while on those teachings, whose memories started when she was a toddler, being told how to play, how and when to talk. She focused on her friend again, in how you could always know what she was thinking, she could express how she felt. She then felt something on her chest, a pain she tends to feel when thinking about other people's behavior. For a long time, she understood that pain as being judgemental, as her being critical of her peers behavior, as something she should take note to not do it herself. But at that moment, relaxed and actually analyzing herself she realized that the pain was another thing. It was jealousy, she was jealous of Briar. She was so open, so chatty, so herself, and everybody loved her for that. She thought of Briar's favorite color, fuschia, something that everyone would know; she was always trying to introduce that color in her daily life. She then focused on her own favorite color, red, the color she took so much pride in, the color of her family, the color of her destiny, when she bites the red apple and gets in a coma, to be recued by her prince. The favorite color of her mother, and her grandma, and every Snow White ever born. She was not special, something that should make her feel connected to her destiny, but it only made her feel… artificial. Everything on her life was monitored, was created, she was her mothers little doll. With horror, she realized she didn't know herself, even though she tried to think about something that differentiated her from her mother and her understanding of the perfect daughter and future queen, she was blank. She was a stranger in her own mind. And then was Briar, she was allowed to find herself, to experiment with her presentation. She was allowed to be. 

   Her eyes alarmingly opened, as the realization settled on her mind, a single tear fell from her blue eyes. The pain of her chest, jealousy, was replaced by guilt, guilt she felt for feeling that of her best friend forever after. Tears continued to fall, she tried to stop them, looking to the ceiling, but it didn't work. She started crying. Briar, surprised by the sudden crying noise, looked up, but Apple´s eyes avoided hers. Briar grabbed her face, with quite more force than she would have liked, but that exactly made her friend look at her in the eyes. She saw desperation, pain and loneliness. She understood her perfectly. Briar smiled a little, physically closer than she never had ever been with anybody. Apple smiled at her back and Briar smiled even bigger, she was so beautiful. Without second thoughts, Apple shortened the distance, and pressed her lips toward Briars. Before she could realize she messed up, Briar started kissing her.It was a long and warm kiss, although pretty inexperienced, but it was the best one that Apple had ever had. Her first kiss was with Daring, it was short and it felt wrong, something was lacking. When the kiss ended, she obviously smiled politely (like she always does) and said that they should wait till they are married, and maybe, she thought, it would be enough there. This kiss, however, felt full, caring, loving, amazing. 

When they separated, both with full smiles on their faces, they hugged. Nothing mattered, because they had each other. They got into bed, grabbed each other's hands, and fell asleep. 

[beanghostprincess]

When I said Jotaro was the gayest Jojo, I lied. It's Josuke. At least Jotaro can be bi for plot purposes but I don't think Josuke could even kiss a girl without feeling something's awfully wrong.

[mintaikk]

Me reading a fic where the person had an identidy realization that they were in he aroace spectrum and now they were figuring themselves out(I finally found something that understood me and a romance I could relate to after all these years)

[contagious-watermelon]

so have we advocated for QPRs being a known relationship option bc its important that people not be boxed in by preconceived labels and notions, or are we just trying to extend the pressure to get into a committed relationship to aromantic people after they try to escape the bounds of amatonormativity

[ratatoast]

my heart yearns for Alastor qpr fanfics...

if I were to potentially write one, perchance

do keep in mind tho that I've never written for hazbin before lol, not even a simple draft

however, as an aroace menace, I feel that it's my job to contribute at least this much haha

edit: it's up :] I made it my pinned post xoxo

[barebon35]

So I'm sure we've all seen those "gay people can never just say I love you they gotta pull this shit [insert any queerbaited scene]" and I realized that the reason gay people in media never say they're gay, beyond y'know not being allowed, is because they're showing without telling. All the scenes are of people silently professing their love and dedication to another through action or forgiveness or sentiment and it's. It's just. They do say it. We do say it. They don't have to say they love each other because it's already been said a hundred times over. "I forgive you" "I chose you" "I remembered" "I came" are all so much more profound to me than hearing someone verbally say they love you. Maybe I'm asexual. Maybe it's digiorno. Maybe it's because with all of these scenarios love is just a given. So it doesn't need to be said, because it's already known.

[velvet-games]

having big feelings about being aroace rn 🥺

[starswallowingsea]

Don’t just say someone doesn’t have reading comprehension or isn’t “media literate” just because you don’t agree with them lol. Enjoy your shitty gacha game that’ll never have characters get in fulfilling relationships because their target audience is fujos

I was going to take this in good faith until I saw you were sending everyone who reblogged Cryn's response to you asks that clearly show you aren't interested in an actual discussion. Go play D4DJ if you need characters kissing in a CG to prove that they're gay or something if that's what you deem a fulfilling relationship.

[dallonwrites]

okay actually looked at the lover boy wip intro again and this has me crazy because the grief in this was meant to all be about bobby but "remember that his favourite fruit was peaches and try not to cry over it" got me because felix's favourite fruit being peaches is like. a recent but definitive part of his character. and i can't remember if i just used peaches as a placeholder for bobby's favourite fruit (he does not give peach to me) and if i first wrote this before or after i decided peaches were felix's BUT now i'm like. what if this passage is him grieving bobby but it spirals around his grief for his relationship with felix??? find a lover the way you found felix and don't lose him this time but also find a lover because you're trying to find a connection as deep as the one you had with your best friend even though you know it can never be replicated. you can never find a lover that will love you like bobby (platonic, to be clear) loved you. find a lover in the fact you are alive even though it makes you nauseous because it just reminds you that your best friend isn't. how do you grieve someone who's still alive whilst simultaneously grieve someone who isnt? trying to grieve two people in two different ways and you feel guilty at the way they blend and blur because it feels like you lose your separate grips on both of them and you don't feel like you have space in you to accommodate all this ache. and like what if i edited all this to make that parallel more clear?? that his primary grief is bobby because he's the one who's dead but he's also grieving felix and probably doesn't even realise it?? and then the two become blurred?? and if he realised this he would actually feel fucking awful about it and like a bad friend?? haha just kidding unless??

[the-lesbian-orpheus]

I love and cherish by edits and stuff of my dramatic high fantasy guys, my minecraft guys, my silly little monsters, my dramatic sci-fi guys, my animated guys

But can we please also normalize making edits and stuff of like regular ass sitcom guys

Like where are the badass edits of Rosa Diaz, the crush edits of Tahani al Jamil, the ship edits of David and Patrick, the comfort edits of Chidi Anagonye

I say this as a person who lives in fantasy and whimsy content

I feel like we deserve both

(Ps I rambled a lot about this in the tags so maybe check them out :3 👀👀👀)